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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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Colonel that is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:47
[Music] crime [Music] Thursday December 26th the day after Christmas 1985 Deborah Anne wolf is a 28-year-old
00:04:37
nurse at the VA hospital in fville North Carolina she worked the first shift as normal during the shift she had lunch
00:04:46
with Roger rushing a cooworker she called her mom Jenny Edwards around 3:30 asking for gift suggestions for her
00:04:55
sister-in-law's birthday it was in every way a routine day Debbie clocked out at 400 p.m. and
00:05:04
it is presumed that she went straight home a 15 to 20 minute drive the next day Friday December 27th Debbie did not
00:05:14
show up for her 8: a.m. shift at the hospital this was not just unusual it was totally out of character her
00:05:22
supervisors at the hospital called her house and got no answer her mom Jenny called the hospital
00:05:30
at midday and was told that Debbie never arrived at work Jenny tried Debbie at her home but she did not answer the
00:05:38
phone Jenny sent her husband John Edwards and their friend Kevin Gordon over to Debbie's
00:05:46
house when John and Kevin got to the house Debbie's car was there with her Christmas presents still inside the
00:05:53
vehicle they found Debbie's dogs roaming outside the kitchen door was locked but
00:05:59
but the living room door was unlocked inside the electric heater was on articles of clothing lie on the
00:06:07
kitchen floor it seemed that Debbie was nowhere on the property John and Kevin assumed that Debbie had left with
00:06:15
someone possibly in a hurry and would be back they fed the dogs turned down the heater and
00:06:22
left the next day John returned to the cabin again he found the dog bowls empty and still no sign of
00:06:31
Debbie everything was the way John had left it the day before he walked the property saw nothing unusual and then
00:06:40
left but things were unusual because Debbie was close with her family and yet no one knew where she was to this day so
00:06:51
many questions remain unanswered this is true crime garage and this is the mysterious case of Debbie Wolf
00:07:01
[Music] today we are going back to just after Christmas 1985 near fville a well-populated All-American City in the
00:07:27
beautiful state of North Carolina Debbie Wolf lived alone with her two dogs Mason and Morgan in a small onlevel
00:07:36
home 100 yards off of McArthur Road just about 4 miles outside of fville this is
00:07:43
a rustic cabin surrounded by Tall Pine trees and no Neighbors at the time Debbie was driving a
00:07:51
1975 Pontiac that belonged to her mother Debbie was at work on December 26th and
00:07:58
then like life as they say it turns on a dime because 24 hours later she does not
00:08:04
show up for work and she cannot be located her stepfather and family friend go to check on her and finding one door
00:08:13
to her cabin unlocked and the dogs roaming the property note that the dogs were outside dogs they always stayed
00:08:23
outside they were roped to a stake during the day when Debbie was at work and at night they roam freely by Sunday
00:08:31
her family was starting to become seriously alarmed John Edwards Dave Thomason and Kevin Gordon went to the
00:08:40
cabin to take a more thorough look looking under the bed Kevin located Debbie's purse it was wedged into a
00:08:48
corner of the waterbed this being an odd place in my opinion to find one's purse
00:08:55
but nothing else seemed suspicious there was no sign of any struggle or any type
00:09:01
of Confrontation so again they left the property on Monday Debbie once again did
00:09:08
not show up to work Jenny her mother decided it was time to call the authorities this is the Cumberland
00:09:15
County Sheriff's Office Captain Jack Watts the Cumberland County Sheriff responded to take a report and a photo
00:09:25
of Debbie but he didn't show the level of concern that Jenny felt was warranted she gathered a group of friends and they
00:09:34
met up at Debbie's cabin and decided they were going to walk the property looking for Clues to where she possibly
00:09:41
could be they hiked through the woods that surrounded the small retention Pond behind the house and found nothing by
00:09:49
4:30 p.m. Jenny and John were back home at their house when detective William Nichols showed up and said that they
00:09:58
planned to search Debbie's cabin and property the following day well it's nice of them to let them know hey we're
00:10:05
going to search tomorrow one thing I never understand in these cases here captain and we've SE this time and time
00:10:12
again where especially when we talk about cases from the 70s and 80s there seems to be a lack of concern when
00:10:19
someone isn't where they are supposed to be they're reported missing I get that they are waiting for it to become an
00:10:27
official missing person's case as many people often turn up within an hour or a couple hours later right however I've
00:10:35
never understood why they can't just go okay we've taken your report we'll swing by their property and
00:10:42
take a a look around you know maybe peek in a window or walk the property or try
00:10:47
calling the house anything I mean you're on duty at the time you have to fill up
00:10:52
your day and your hours with task why not just go and briefly look for the person and the land that this cabin sits
00:11:01
on do you know how much property they actually own I think it was a few Acres but from my understanding Captain the
00:11:08
pond was quite small I think what gets a little difficult to understand here where her property and just how big her
00:11:15
property actually was is that there are no neighbors surrounding her so it's not
00:11:20
easy for one to look at the property all these years later and determine just how
00:11:26
big her property was but also the picture and there's only a couple pictures of the property online it looks like it's
00:11:33
lined with woods so that would be make it a little bit harder to decipher that's correct and they did
00:11:42
this case was featured on Unsolved Mysteries back in the day I believe it was season 3 one of the later episodes
00:11:49
in that season and so the reenactments I'm not certain Captain if they were filmed at the actual location or not but
00:11:58
I've seen that episode and it certainly just adds more to the mystery now as planned the next day the sheriff's
00:12:06
deputies did arrived to scout the house in the surrounding area they conducted a
00:12:11
search of the cabin and property looking for Debbie any clues in their opinion nothing was a Miss there was no signs of
00:12:19
a struggle or anything concerning to the officers blood hounds were brought into
00:12:24
the scene and they didn't find anything as well really deputy did not search the
00:12:30
pond on the property they told John his her stepfather that there was no indication that anything would be found
00:12:39
in the water now Jenny was so concerned about Debbie and at such a loss to explain her disappearance that she asked
00:12:48
Kevin this is a family friend to help and Kevin called his buddy this is Sergeant Gordon childis who was an Army
00:12:57
paratrooper stationed at nearby Fort Bragg anybody that's listened to this show for a while remembers us talking
00:13:03
about Fort Bragg in the past childis was a scuba diver and so he agreed to assist
00:13:11
in the search for Debbie by diving into this retention Pond behind her home so he arrives at the cabin this is 12:30
00:13:20
p.m. on Wednesday and after helping search the area he gets on his scuba gear and he enters the water around 3:00
00:13:27
p.m. now by this time Captain she's been missing for I believe it's 6 days if that math checks out that's a long time
00:13:35
for her to be missing when he goes into the water okay first he says the water's
00:13:40
cold it's murky water but he's only in there for a couple minutes and he pops back up and says he saw a body in the
00:13:47
water right but you like you said it was a small pond correct at 3:30 p.m. on January 1st
00:13:55
1986 the Cumberland County Sheriff's Office office was called in and the body was pulled from the shallow Pond the
00:14:04
body in the pond was quickly determined to be that of Debbie Wolf she was found fully clothed The fville Observer
00:14:13
reported that she was wearing Nike white leather shoes ankle socks a and red knee socks a black T-shirt a
00:14:24
brown checkered shirt brown corduroy pants blue underwear and a new regulation army field jacket the autopsy
00:14:35
was performed by Dr William Oliver and it determined that she had drowned in the pond this was based on a
00:14:43
small amount of water found in one of her bronchial tubes according to the Sheriff's Office
00:14:50
spokesperson no marks or other signs of struggle or violence were found on Debbie's body there was no foul play the
00:14:58
the autopsy Ruled The fville Gazette reported that there were some bruising but nothing to definitively prove she
00:15:08
either had or had not been assaulted right and there was no evidence of sexual assault a toxicology report found
00:15:16
no drugs or alcohol in Debbie's system and although no one was sure when Debbie had died the date of death was fixed at
00:15:25
December 26th 1985 now do we know how deep this Pond gets yes I've heard Jenny Edwards
00:15:35
describe the pond she describes it as a small but not too small pond her her her
00:15:41
definition of this Pond is a little confusing it's small but not too small it's not deep but it's deep in spots I
00:15:49
have one report that states that the deepest spot is believed to be about 5 and 1/2t so it's possible we have Debbie
00:15:58
on her property by herself doesn't make a lot of sense why she'd go into the pond with her clothes on and a jacket on
00:16:07
and shoes on in December but it's possible that she went in for some reason and had an accident and she died
00:16:15
in the pond and she drowned one thing we're going to find in this case Captain is the lack of information I'm saying
00:16:22
lack of information because I'm hoping that they did they being the sheriff's department did some more work on the
00:16:29
case than what is publicly available now one thing we've seen in other cases involving water one thing that they're
00:16:37
quick to do and mind you they did this in the west Memphis 3 investigation which we saw how botched that thing was
00:16:45
but one thing that they did at least did in that investigation is you take the temperature of the water okay when you
00:16:51
find a body in or out of water you're going to take the temperature of the body but when you find a body in the
00:16:57
water you want to know the temperature of the water as well because that will contribute to to the state of the body
00:17:06
as you find it I also want to point out something here as well Captain with the date of death uhhuh we need to be clear
00:17:15
here there was no determination absolutely when this young woman died they put the date of death on the death
00:17:25
certificate as December 26th in Most states the ruling is that it can be up to the family you can put the date of
00:17:36
death when it's undetermined as when the person went missing or when they were found so that you know often becomes up
00:17:45
to the family I don't know if they were asked in this particular case but that's
00:17:49
the date that they gave gave it um this makes me think of the deli case where if
00:17:57
you look at the date of of death they give one date to one of the victims and the next day as the date to the other
00:18:04
victim and a lot of people point out that that means oh they know something they know one girl was killed on this
00:18:10
day and the other girl was killed on the following day that's not true it's just
00:18:14
the date that was chosen by the families a 1988 article we're going to jump ahead
00:18:21
here a year or two and then jump back but a 1988 article in The fville Observer archives that has been large
00:18:28
ignored in this case probably because it's behind a pay wall and it doesn't come up in any internet searches
00:18:36
contains some what I believe to be crucial information and it says the death certificate filed on February 24th
00:18:47
1986 list the cause of death as pending and the determination of the death as a murder suicide undetermined or natural
00:18:57
causes is also pending a supplemental report lists the cause of death as drowning undetermined is typed in the
00:19:06
blank where the medical examiner is required to State whether the date was due to accident suicide or homicide so
00:19:14
what do all those words mean what that means is when they first did the autopsy it was pending the determination
00:19:24
of death was pending whether it was a murder suicide undetermined or natural causes it was later changed to say
00:19:32
drowning but the drowning was listed as undetermined meaning she died by drowning but could not determine if it
00:19:41
was due to an accident a suicide or homicide yeah cuz we don't like you said we have some bruising but we don't have
00:19:48
any puncture wounds we don't have clear-cut indication that she was strangled do we have a clearcut distance
00:19:55
between the the cabin and this Pond from my understanding it's fairly close to the back of the cabin mhm the thing here
00:20:03
that I'm pointing out with the death certificate with the autopsy is that there's no way given what it states on
00:20:11
the report that the Sheriff's Office can then say well we did what we could there's no homicide to investigate here
00:20:18
because it was ruled an accident it was it was ruled a drowning but never determined why the drowning happened
00:20:27
that article goes on to say that Dr William Oliver conducted an autopsy and after lengthy delay mind you the last
00:20:35
time this woman was seen was on the 26th of December the death certificate was filed on February
00:20:41
24th almost two full months later doctors stated that the body had undergone changes characteristic of cold
00:20:51
water drowning or immersion syndrome in which death is believed to occur from cardiac arrest
00:20:59
he said he found no evidence of beating stabbing shooting or strangulation on the body now this is interesting because
00:21:07
this is something we've not discussed here in the garage before but from what I've been told immersion syndrome is a
00:21:13
phenomenon in which sudden Cardiac Arrest is brought on by immersion into icy cold water it is believed that
00:21:22
sudden immersion in freezing water can in some people cause the body go into shock and possibly even Cardiac Arrest
00:21:32
resulting in death Cumberland County Sheriff's detectives ruled Debb's cause of death accidental by Drowning so that
00:21:41
was the determination by the sheriff's office so who was our victim well Debbie Wolf she was born in June of 1957 in
00:21:51
Arkansas she had three brothers Pete Joseph and John the family moved to North Carolina after reportedly living
00:21:58
in England for some time Debbie's mom Jenny remarried John Edwards and Jenny owned a local bar in fville called The
00:22:09
Pub Debbie had been a nurse for about 2 years at the time of her death she loved
00:22:15
her job and she was known to be Dependable responsible and dedicated she was also a jokester with a
00:22:23
wicked sense of humor she sent her mom a male stripper for her 50th birthday and
00:22:29
an inflatable novelty doll for Christmas just the day before she was last seen on
00:22:37
the day after Christmas she went to work at the hospital toing a giant stuffed unicorn that she received as a gift she
00:22:45
was known as a happy person and had no known enemies Debbie also had a serious boyfriend and one report we read said
00:22:54
that they had recently decided to step up their relationship by all accounts Debbie was
00:23:01
a happy person in a good place in her life at the time that she went missing and then later was found dead in the
00:23:08
sorry they saying that they they're more than boyfriend and girlfriend that that
00:23:12
she might have been this individual's fiance I don't know if they were that far but that's from what I found it was
00:23:19
getting pretty serious now Debbie was found at the bottom of the pond behind her house captain you asked just how far
00:23:26
it was the pond from my notes was about 100 yards from her cabin but several Publications including the Asheville
00:23:35
citizens times reported that Gordon childis who dove into the pond in his scuba gear to find debie said that he
00:23:44
saw through the murky and brackish water what looked like a body fully clothed protruding from a rusted metal Barrel
00:23:55
sitting at the bottom of the pond so he's the one that finds Debbie initially in the pond he says that when he found
00:24:03
her she is inside of this barrel and she's in there like head first so he could only see like a foot
00:24:12
or maybe both feet sticking out of this Barrel right he went into the pond and he said
00:24:19
without touching anything or disturbing anything he finds the body the Sheriff's
00:24:25
Office their deputies arrive on the scene they're going to put their own divers into the pond to recover the body
00:24:32
but childis is going to assist them in this process so he along with two officers recovered the body and brought
00:24:42
it back to the bank I'm guessing at this point riam mortis has already set in on
00:24:48
the body yes that would be correct again we don't have a time or date of the actual death itself now according to a
00:24:56
fville obs observers 1988 article the one of the divers for the Sheriff's Office this is Don Smith and I'm going
00:25:05
to do a direct quote here quote told reporters he also had seen the barrel and Smith was filmed by a television
00:25:13
cameraman as saying to Major Charles Smith of the barrel major I saw that sucker right out there he pointed to the
00:25:22
spot where the body was found end quote and here's a report from the day after the body was found they said this was
00:25:29
from the Wilson Daily Times January 2nd quote Cumberland County authorities are waiting for autopsy results on
00:25:39
28-year-old Deborah wolf whose body was found in a barrel in a pond near her cabin on New Year's Day a sheriff's
00:25:48
spokesman says Miss wolf a registered nurse at the Veterans Administration Hospital lived alone in a log cabin near
00:25:57
near the pond Harold little spokesman for the Cumberland County Sheriff's Department said today quote I'm
00:26:05
reasonably positive it will be investigated as a murder but we're awaiting the results of the autopsy
00:26:12
little said adding there was no official indication of how she died the woman's fully clothed body was found in a
00:26:21
submerged Barrel little said but he wouldn't comment on reports that Footprints had been found leading into
00:26:28
the water Miss Wolf's body was discovered by a friend who saw the footprints at the pond put on scuba gear
00:26:36
and found the barrel according to a news report but little said he had no comment
00:26:42
on the report but now that we have two officers saying that her body was found in this Barrel in this
00:26:49
Pond behind her house any idea of an accidental death or suicide not by buing it no more this
00:26:59
Barrel being put into place in the crime scene this is a direct indication of Foul
00:27:07
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cheers to all of you cheers Captain the day after they removed Debbie's body deputies returned to the cabin to
00:29:37
retrieve the Barrel in an effort to find the barrel deputies drained the pond to
00:29:42
a level of 2 to three feet no Barrel was found major Charles Smith chief of detectives at the time told the media
00:29:52
that there was no Barrel in the pond Sheriff's divers never never saw a barrel when they went in to retrieve the
00:30:00
body he said well this seems a little strange there were at least two officers with the Sheriff's Office quoted talking
00:30:10
about the barrel the man who found the body before Sheriff's divers were brought in Gordon childr said quote
00:30:18
there was no doubt in my mind I am 100% positive that it was an old burn barrel or something of that nature you know
00:30:26
metal rusted 55 gallon type drum that the body was in end quote Jenny Edwards says quote my diver said there was a
00:30:36
barrel the sheriff's diver said there was a barrel not only that Debbie had a barrel in her yard it disappeared end
00:30:43
quote this is Jenny recalling that Debbie had a 55g drum type Barrel on her property sitting right near the cabin
00:30:52
well this is going to start making you think if you're the family what the hell is is wrong with the police
00:30:59
officers why are they lying about this item so Chief Sheriff's detective Jack Watts says this this is verbatim in the
00:31:09
Unsolved Mysteries episode quote in my opinion and the opinions of some of the investigators what appeared to be a
00:31:16
barrel to some of the divers could have been Debb's jacket which may have ballooned out as she was lying at that
00:31:24
angle in the bottom of the pond there was never a touched by any of the divers according to their statements uh most
00:31:32
definitely by none of our divers did we ever touch a barrel end quote even though we have two statements about a
00:31:40
barrel okay yeah so something doesn't add up here he's pointing out that no one touched a barrel and that would go
00:31:46
along with all of the statements and everything that was quoted before no one has ever said that they touched a barrel
00:31:52
only people saying that they saw a barrel he's pointing out that it could have been an optical
00:31:59
illusion right now Gordon childis the man who originally found the body admitted that his visibility was limited
00:32:06
as the pond was quite dirty but he does say on record time and time again I thought I saw a barrel this was the
00:32:14
theory that was adopted by the Sheriff's Office investigators where they're saying hey the pond was dirty so they
00:32:23
concluded that the barrel was an optical illusion caused by Debbie's large unfastened jacket floating around her in
00:32:32
a a semicircle in the dark murky Waters of that pond here's a couple things I wonder okay one if there was just a body
00:32:41
in this Pond wouldn't the body then at some point go to the surface because of the gases and stuff inside the body but
00:32:51
if you have this Barrel maybe the barrel would be helping to keep the body down she was wearing a good amount of
00:32:58
clothing I don't know if here's some difficult things about this case mhm first we don't know when she went into
00:33:06
the water regardless of how she got there we don't know when she went in right and I would imagine the bloating
00:33:12
the gases that stuff it takes a bit of time and of course you're right most of the time a body will rise to the top I
00:33:19
don't know if all of this clothing the heavy clothing if it absorbed the water if it became heavy enough to weight her
00:33:25
down we don't have any statements however of anybody saying that she was you know Tethered to anything in the
00:33:32
pond or in this Barrel to keep her under water to keep her submerged so that part's all very difficult the other
00:33:39
thing that's super difficult and I you know people might get crazy with me here but we're going to hover around this
00:33:46
Barrel a lot during this episode because to me this is the center piece of the case because no matter whether people
00:33:53
saw a barrel or not everyone agrees that when the detectives the the detectives return to the scene on Thursday the day
00:34:01
after to retrieve a barrel right that's agreed upon when they get there there is
00:34:06
no Barrel to be found anywhere that's also agreed upon now you wonder is there somebody at the scene that's responsible
00:34:15
for this murder that believes that this Barrel is a a vital piece of evidence and takes the barrel why they wouldn't
00:34:23
take it the first day doesn't make any sense to me but then to give law enforcement the benefit of the doubt we
00:34:31
don't have a great understanding of this pawn and we know that they're draining It 2 to three feet is it possible that
00:34:39
when they were searching for the barrel they just weren't capable of finding it okay so you bring up several good points
00:34:45
and you brought this up before we went to the break well that's what I do on this show is I bring up these amazing
00:34:50
points your point being before the break that if there was a barrel if she's found inside the barrel in the pond it
00:34:59
has to be murder or Foul Play She Doesn't commit suicide put herself into a barrel she doesn't accidentally drown
00:35:06
and magically end up inside of the barrel well even without it's too much of a coincidence yeah but even without
00:35:12
the barrel I think me and you would both lean to this looks more like a homicide
00:35:17
if there were no Barrel present I could be easily convinced that this was an accidental
00:35:22
drowning now with the barrel present I go back to what you said before the break it has to be some type of Foul
00:35:31
Play So then the thought is well did someone come back and retrieve the barrel and that's exactly what her
00:35:39
mother Debbie has insinuated over the years that someone who murdered her daughter came back to the property and
00:35:46
removed the barrel so that it could not incriminate them so that maybe it would be determined to be an accidental death
00:35:54
and there would be no homicide investigation right interestingly enough though you
00:36:00
also point out something that just seems outwardly bizarre why wouldn't they just
00:36:04
take the barrel with them on the day that they recovered the body the Sheriff's Office why not just take it
00:36:11
with you well I can I can give them a little leeway here and say all right well maybe they didn't have proper
00:36:17
equipment to drain the pond and maybe they decided that the easiest way to remove the barrel was to in fact drain
00:36:23
the pond however you are responding to a call where someone is telling you we have located a body of a person we've
00:36:32
located a body on the property of a person that was previously reported as missing inside of a pond you're not
00:36:40
going to bring any kind of any kind of equipment to drain the pond with you or at least call it in and say hey we're
00:36:47
going out to the scene to see if we find a body could you get to work on bringing
00:36:50
in this draining equipment well they didn't take her serious when they said that she was missing it so that part
00:36:57
seems like a big misstep by the sheriff's department here's the other thing okay maybe you decide that
00:37:04
tomorrow we have to come back tomorrow to drain the pond retrieve the barrel put a freaking officer at the scene and
00:37:11
guard the damn scene yeah cuz well one if you found a body in a car and you couldn't determine if it was a homicide
00:37:18
or an accident or what have you you would remove the vehicle that day with the body or at the very least put an
00:37:27
officer at the scene so you could retrieve it later none of this was done well and John Douglas would tell you
00:37:33
look this is a remote scene so the fact that it's a remote scene I'm I'm putting
00:37:38
some officers around this area to see if any bu comes by to see if we found the body yet because like we know killers
00:37:48
were returned to the crime scene from time to time when we're working on the show we do this a lot where we go oh
00:37:54
well sometimes if if one of us is is not filling up to the work that day we'll go
00:37:59
oh well we'll just get that tomorrow and normally the best work we do is when we
00:38:04
just push through no no let's not wait till tomorrow let's get it done today and that's what it seems like this law
00:38:11
enforcement did was like oh well they handled her missing person case so into such a lazy fashion and then to come
00:38:20
back and go okay well now that we found her but okay well we'll just clean up this area tomorrow
00:38:27
it makes zero sense to me and if this Pond is not that deep why aren't you just removing this
00:38:37
barrel and maybe it's 50 lbs but that's not it's not 500 lb it well it seems obvious to me that whatever the
00:38:45
situation they determine the easiest way to or the best way is what I think I should say the best way to remove the
00:38:52
barrel would be to drain the pond and again that's fine that's well and good put an officer at the scene in a car and
00:39:00
just sit by the pond for the night it's very simple easily done if they also came back and said look we we're going
00:39:07
to come back tomorrow to drain the pond for two reasons one to get that Barrel but two we're going to see if we can
00:39:14
find any other evidence within the pond and that would make a lot more sense to me but it doesn't even seem like they
00:39:21
were looking for other instruments that could have been used in the the death of
00:39:27
Debbie per the investigation investigators were not able to locate anyone who saw Debbie after she left
00:39:34
work on the 26th so this helped them to fix her date of death on that particular
00:39:39
day since she failed to show up for work the next morning it's not at all clear whether they processed her car and her
00:39:47
house for fingerprints we don't know if they checked into her phone records or interviewed her co-workers and Friends
00:39:54
there's also no discussion of whether there was any suspicion of her boyfriend or whether he was looked at at all
00:40:01
either very little investigation was actually done in Debbie Wolf's case or very little was made public about what
00:40:09
was done right and you would think that we'd have maybe we have the family questioning law enforcement so we'd
00:40:16
think that we'd get some more information from her mother saying okay well maybe they didn't publicize that
00:40:23
they they searched her house but they did search her house well it's going to be basically just a straight down
00:40:30
the-middle disagreement between the two sides between Debbie's family and the sheriff's department now we mentioned
00:40:36
earlier Footprints or possible Footprints Gordon childis said he saw two sets of footprints on the bottom of
00:40:43
the pond he says they led to the direction of the body keep in mind though he's also said that the pond was
00:40:50
very dirty it was it was very you know murky water dirty water he had a hard time seeing uh now bear in mind that
00:40:58
this Pond is about five and a half feet deep at its deepest point so this is this is where you go all right someone
00:41:05
could walk into the pond and reach the spot where Debbie was found so she could have easily been placed there but if
00:41:13
there were two sets of footprints on the bottom of the pond you have to wonder what does this
00:41:18
mean does this mean that there were two perpetrators placing her and the Barrel in the
00:41:24
pond or was this one perpetrator placing these items in the pond and then the second set is the
00:41:32
footprints back out of the pond right but hold your questions because none of this is straightforward and it's about
00:41:39
to get even more confusing the Sheriff's Office spokesman this is Harold little told the Asheville citizen times that a
00:41:48
sheriff's deputy at the scene asked chis to show him the footprints and childis could not find them and little went on
00:41:55
to say say that the bottom of the pond was not actually mud or silt that would show Footprints but moss on which
00:42:03
Footprints did not make an impression so Footprints would not be possible at the
00:42:08
bottom of the pond so law enforcement 100% does not back up the existence of these Footprints now chis says Debbie
00:42:18
was in the barrel he's the first diver the friend of the family reports were that a barrel was seen by two divers
00:42:25
Sheriff's divers then it's reported to the media by the Sheriff's Office investigator that there was no barrel of
00:42:33
course the key question is what did the law enforcement divers who went down and
00:42:39
got Debbie out of the pond actually see because whether or not there was a barrel really changes everything in this
00:42:48
case the Asheville citizen times reported quote it was possible Debbie was playing with her dogs and and
00:42:56
accidentally fell into the pond she was wearing an army field jacket and it may have become water logged causing her to
00:43:03
sink below the surface investigators also say she may have been standing on ice when it gave way causing her to
00:43:12
enter the water or she may have fallen into the pond and panicked Chief detective Charles Smith said we have no
00:43:19
idea how she got into the water Smith also stated that Debbie could have suffered some other kind of accident
00:43:27
once she was in the pond in the dark in the freezing water she became disoriented and moved away from rather
00:43:34
than toward the Pond's Edge so the Sheriff's Office couldn't come up with a great reason that Debbie would have
00:43:42
entered the pond but once she was in there they believed that she became frightened and disoriented in the water
00:43:49
and instead of moving toward the shallow Edge she went out deeper where she became a victim of this immersion
00:43:56
syndrome so there's still a lot of questions in regards to this explanation right yeah the pond is only 5/2 ft deep
00:44:04
you could walk into it and out of it and a better description of the pond is as follows the water at the edge of the
00:44:11
pond is only about an inch or two deep the bottom gently slopes and the pond is only Knee Deep 5T from The Edge Debbie
00:44:22
was found 30 ft from the bank so given gentle grade she would have been able to stand up and walk out of the pond if she
00:44:30
fell in unless this is a ray Rivera situation where God only knows how she fell and she magically fell into the
00:44:37
center of the pond right knee deep at 5T in inches deep around the the very edge
00:44:46
of the pond so if she fell in by accident I don't know I it just makes very little sense to me how one could
00:44:54
end up working their way deeper rather than just standing up or even getting on your hands and knees and crawling out
00:45:03
yeah it's such a bad explanation that makes this also very difficult is the 26th of December it was reported that it
00:45:12
was only 25 Dees or so that day so frigid Ford North Carolina this will also provide a
00:45:22
possible explanation the Sheriff's Office maintained that it was possible she was playing with her dogs perhaps
00:45:27
running with them or she tried to help one of the dogs and stepped onto very thin ice maybe she thought it
00:45:34
was thicker ice and fell through and then drowned in the pond yeah it's possible that you would let your dogs
00:45:42
out and maybe they' get into a situation where you'd have to help them so I could
00:45:47
see that being an accidental death but again the the size of the pond like you said at some point you can just stand up
00:45:57
well of course the family contends that Debbie was murdered they don't agree with the sheriff's office they challenge
00:46:05
the autopsy findings the family says it was murder and a bumbling inept or maybe
00:46:11
even corrupt investigation got it all wrong Jenny Edwards was not happy with the Sheriff's Office and she let them
00:46:18
know it on the public front The fville Observer said quote unanswered questions contradictions and the victim's mother
00:46:26
adamant refusal to accept theories voiced by law enforcement authorities have shrouded the death in mystery well
00:46:34
we bash law enforcement enough so let's uh give them a little credit because even they knew they were
00:46:41
outmanned so they call in the SBI yeah I don't know if it's so much a question of
00:46:46
being outmanned or just doing due diligence a little checks and balances if you watch the Unsolved Mysteries
00:46:53
episode keep in mind it's a great show Captain loves it colonel loves it everyone loves it it's a shame we're not
00:47:00
hosting the show on Netflix however it's it's a it's actually pathetic that we're
00:47:05
not the the co-host that's still one of the great Unsolved Mysteries of our lifetimes maybe next season however keep
00:47:12
in mind when you watch that show specifically the ones from the the 80s and 90s you when you view a case for the
00:47:20
most part you're getting the 9 or 10 minute version of a case that's why you step into the garage to get the rest of
00:47:27
the story something that was not covered in the Unsolved Mysteries episode was the sheriff calling in the
00:47:35
SBI so on January 5th note that date January 5th it was reported that Cumberland County Sheriff
00:47:44
Otis Jones requested the help of the state Bureau of Investigation specifically he requested that the SBI
00:47:51
look into his Department's handling of the Debbie wolf investigation this is extremely unconventional especially
00:48:01
given that the investigation was only days old at this point Sheriff spokesman Harold little said the department was
00:48:08
bringing in the SBI assistance the uh fville Observer reported that SBI agent Marshall Evans was given the case review
00:48:18
assignment he talked to County detectives family members and others he visited the scene several times
00:48:26
and although Evans wasn't able to determine exactly what happened to Debbie he told the Observer that he does
00:48:33
not believe that the death was murder interesting find there by SBI but I go back to her personal life do we have any
00:48:42
indication that there's violence in any relationship that she had or or that or do we know of
00:48:52
any questional questionable suspect that lives in that area that would know that
00:48:57
she was out there living alone so that's an interesting point there Captain as far as her relationship
00:49:04
goes with her boyfriend serious boyfriend whatever label you want to put on it there seems to be zero suspicion
00:49:10
by the family friends the Sheriff's Office and the media regarding the boyfriend there does seem to be a little
00:49:19
suspicion from family and possibly the media regarding one or two of her co-workers and we'll get into that but
00:49:27
we all before we get into that I want to go through some more of the family's allegations specifically Jenny's her
00:49:35
mothers so these are the things that Jenny Edwards has alleged were hinky about her daughter and the scene and the
00:49:43
way the investigation was going down you know when they went through Debbie's Home these were some things that they
00:49:49
found that they thought pointed more towards Foul Play now this item was was not in any of
00:49:56
the original reports but Jenny says that drag marks were found down into the pond
00:50:04
these apparently were observed by childis the diver and reported by Jenny or reported to Jenny by Kevin Gordon
00:50:13
this is interesting to me when we were talking about the footprints earlier I'm thinking okay if there's a
00:50:19
barrel these Footprints if they existed at all are only good in my mind if they are by drag
00:50:27
marks these alleged drag marks have become part of The Narrative of Debbie's case but have never ever been mentioned
00:50:36
by law enforcement or anyone other than Debb's family and friends Jenny also points out that the
00:50:45
driver's seat in Debbie's car was pushed all the way back Debbie was only 5' 3 in
00:50:51
tall so she would sit with the seat pulled forward to drive and her mother says that Debbie would
00:50:58
never adjust the seat because it was sticky and it was hard to move she goes on to state that Debbie
00:51:05
was found wearing clothes that she and her family did not recognize including a Pittsburgh Steeler shirt that her
00:51:14
friends her boyfriend and family says they had never ever seen Jenny said that the clothes that that she was wearing
00:51:24
were the wrong side for her daughter the jacket she was wearing was a men's siiz
00:51:29
small field jacket and looked brand new but had no tags on it this field jacket is a weird thing
00:51:37
because Debbie's boyfriend former Army criminal investigation division agent Steve
00:51:44
McDonald said he did not give this jacket to Debbie and he had never seen it before and he goes on to say that he
00:51:52
is positive he would know if any one else had given the jacket to Debbie so no one knows where this jacket
00:52:01
came from or why she would be wearing it or need it at all as she had a field jacket of her brother's on the hook
00:52:10
inside of her cabin when her body was found this is equal to the barrel to me where it points to homicide almost where
00:52:18
if you could go okay regardless if there was a barrel or not maybe I could get on
00:52:22
board and believe that this jacket ballooned out and caused some kind of optical illusion right but then again
00:52:29
where the hell did the jacket come from yeah and again we don't know what the search
00:52:37
of the house presented I I would think even if the cops searched the house but there
00:52:44
was definitely a struggle there was evidence in there that the family would be able to come forward and say look
00:52:49
there's a struggle inside the house I don't even know if that's the case I you this this crime could have
00:52:57
taken place somewhere else and this individual could have known where she lived and just said hey I'm going to
00:53:03
dump her in her own pond that's where I'm going to get rid of the body now this next item are a pair of brown
00:53:09
corduroy pants that Debbie was wearing um again the family says these pants were way too big that they would have
00:53:18
fit somebody approximately 6 foot tall they go on to say that she was wearing a bra that was way too large for
00:53:26
her uh both in cup size and around the the body these next two items I really think we can toss these
00:53:36
out you know um I'm throwing in my own little opinion as we go through some of these one is is the pair of Nike tennis
00:53:43
shoes that Debbie was wearing the family says these were too big that they were at least a size if not two sizes too big
00:53:51
we do have the the Sheriff's Office investigator Jack Watts who is on camera on record saying we do know for a fact
00:53:58
that the tennis shoes we had on were her tennis shoes he says we have photos of her with those
00:54:07
tennis shoes on prior to her death I'm going to I'm going to go ahead and believe the officer Watts there I don't
00:54:16
believe he would go out of his way to be on camera on mic and say we have pictures of her wearing these shoes the
00:54:24
next item was was it stated that Debbie was clean that there was no noticeable dirt on her sneakers or shoes or
00:54:31
clothing uh and they question how could she have been in this dirty Pond for 6 days without being dirty that the divers
00:54:40
that found her were their their articles their diving gear everything was extremely dirty when they recovered her
00:54:47
and brought her to the edge I don't know what the hell that's supposed to prove that that whole statement really
00:54:54
confuses me because we know she was in the water right the water was dirty or it wasn't dirty whatever how how she was
00:55:01
clean I don't know but we one we know she was in the water and two we know she was in the water longer than the divers
00:55:08
were so I I don't know what that is supposed to to point out here yeah and again but like I said if if you start
00:55:15
thinking you know a little outside the box and you go well what if yeah what if she went home with a one of her
00:55:23
co-workers the the the murder the attack happens there then she's in their house for who
00:55:34
knows how long and then they start searching for her and maybe they go out to the property but maybe she's not in
00:55:40
the pond at that time and she's not in that pond until the day that they they discover
00:55:46
her it's possible another item of concern is a what is called a summer weight uniform so remember she was a
00:55:54
nurse so these are scrubs a summer weight uniform was found lying on the kitchen floor inside the cabin one of
00:56:02
course an odd location to just find you know pants and a shirt lying in the middle of the kitchen
00:56:09
floor but the family says that she would have been wearing a long sleeve shirt and not
00:56:18
lightweight uh uniform in the winter months and this is kind of backed up by the coworker remember we met mentioned
00:56:25
she was having lunch with a Roger rushing he backed this up by saying that she was definitely wearing a longsleeve
00:56:32
shirt at work that day whatever this uniform was that the family and Roger rushing believes that
00:56:39
she was wearing on the 26 was never found at her cabin or in her home so either they're wrong and she
00:56:48
was in fact wearing the uniform that was found on her kitchen floor or there's something terribly wrong with
00:56:55
this whole crime scene one thing that I think is is maybe a big deal here Captain it is
00:57:04
reported and this seems to be agreed upon by both the family and the sheriff's office so let's examine this
00:57:12
thing here it's reported that beer cans littered the yard of Debbie's yard and the family says and points out that
00:57:20
Debbie was neat tidy clean she wouldn't have littered in her yard she she wants to live out in the beauty of nature so
00:57:28
she's not just going to willy-nilly throw beer cans out in the yard she's not going to be a giant piece of [ __ ]
00:57:35
that litters these were found around the area where her vehicle was parked the other thing that the family points out
00:57:42
is okay if you want to believe that she threw them there well that's not the kind of beer that she drank so they're
00:57:49
they're kind of doubling down on this idea that she wouldn't have thrown these beer cans in the yard y well now that
00:57:56
you're not able to collect the barrel you have a bunch of extra space in your evidence Locker collect these cans so
00:58:02
one day that we can test them well the tox remember the toxicology screening on Debbie came back as
00:58:10
clean yeah so she wasn't drinking or doing any type of drugs leading up to her death so these
00:58:18
beer cans are all another big part of the mystery of course her family says that this all adds up plus the barrel
00:58:27
all adds up to pointing to Foul Play and murder in this Cas well in going through
00:58:31
my research uh you know we we we share outlines and stuff and and on your outline you have the hat which I did not
00:58:38
find can you tell me about this hat yeah there was another potential clue found according to the family A
00:58:46
friend of Debbies this is France cha who went to feed the dogs after Debbie died after she was was
00:58:55
found this person found a wool stocking cap that everyone says belong to Debbie and found this hat in the mud at the
00:59:05
opposite end of the pond so you have the cabin you have uh a little bit of distance then you have
00:59:14
this Pond she's found kind of in the middle of it on the opposite side of the pond is where this hat was located
00:59:23
so I don't know what this could possibly point to we don't know how or where she
00:59:29
got into the water from but I think at least this begs the question how thorough was the pond in the property
00:59:39
searched if this hat was still lying there more than a week after Debbie was located so I I mean the Hat could go
00:59:48
either way right she she possibly was wearing the Hat took it off or it floated away
00:59:55
or it fell off when they were taking her body to the water exactly but again it also it to me it just brings up the idea
01:00:03
that it wasn't an extremely thorough search of the property or when things were found they weren't noted or taken
01:00:10
in as evidence again again we don't know the exact size of the pond but if you're
01:00:16
able to drain it a few feet you think that we're at least having officers walk around the pond to see if we find any
01:00:24
more evidence it just seems like a very lazy like you said lazy investigation not a thorough
01:00:32
investigation and I almost think they only called in CBI just to kind of save their hide it's possible but I'm still
01:00:39
going to give them credit for doing so I think that look I I've reviewed a lot of
01:00:44
people who have posted comments online on other people's message boards regarding this case and a lot of people
01:00:51
seem to believe that the this is look I maybe in some cases I can believe it but I can't believe it
01:00:58
here and in most cases I don't believe it Captain this this following statement the Sheriff's Office know who did this
01:01:05
and they're covering it up most of the time that is just freaking false it's not true at all the these we
01:01:12
collectively as a department we're all going to put our asses on the line because somebody we know killed
01:01:18
somebody Bogus the other thing too is we have the corers report the tosy States it was a
01:01:25
drowning cause of drowning undetermined so the coroner corrupt too knows who did it and choosing to cover
01:01:33
it up they brought in this other the state investigative Bureau to double check their work when they were covering
01:01:43
up for a friend of the Departments it just that doesn't make any sense if you think that the
01:01:49
Sheriff's Office got it wrong it's just because they got it wrong not because they are covering for a buddy of the
01:01:56
department and again one of the reasons why I think they could call in CBI is there's somebody that they knew that
01:02:03
used to work in the department so we're going to call this guy in he's going to act like he's double cheing us but he's
01:02:09
really going to be um essentially our our our friendly Alibi to say that well we didn't do
01:02:18
anything wrong here even though they were just lazy about the whole investigation
01:02:26
that's possible and and I don't I don't have any reason to firmly disagree with that I just think we have a situation
01:02:34
where the sheriff's being incredibly responsible in saying look this woman and her family are
01:02:43
challenging our findings and our investigation let's bring in a you know a state
01:02:50
agency to at least take a look at this thing and if we're wrong maybe they can find
01:02:58
something we didn't find or if we're right she's going to get the same answers that we already gave her and
01:03:06
hopefully that will give the family some kind of satisfaction some kind of closure look there if the family's wrong
01:03:16
you know we're beating up on the sheriff's office here a lot but there's a chance the family could be wrong if
01:03:20
the family's wrong in this situation they're grieving people that are trying to understand the bizarre mysterious
01:03:27
death of a loved one it's a very difficult thing to process on the episode of Unsolved
01:03:36
Mysteries besides the barrel probably the biggest mystery in this case would be the phone call or
01:03:44
message that was found on Debbie's answering machine I love these that's why one of the reasons why uh I miss
01:03:52
answering machines so Jenny later told this story to The fville Examiner and says when John and Kevin went over to
01:04:02
Debbie's to look for her they noticed that there was a message blinking on her machine for those that have never
01:04:09
experienced The Wonder of an answering machine that's how you knew you had a message when you came home the little
01:04:15
light would be blinking and you go oh boy somebody called me and you would hit the button and it would play the message
01:04:21
Jenny says that uh quote what they heard was a stranger's voice on the tape the two then really became concerned the
01:04:30
message had been left earlier that day the voice was a man calling from the veterans hospital this would be where
01:04:37
Debbie worked to see how Debbie was doing the man's message indicated that Debbie had missed many days of work this
01:04:46
struck Jenny Edwards as odd because she knew this was not true at the time of the message that the message was left
01:04:54
Debbie had only missed she had not missed days of work only a few hours at Best all right let's dissect this a
01:05:02
little bit here because one could the meaning of the message be misconstrued by these two
01:05:12
individuals you've missed a lot of days no by the time we're listening to this message she's only missed one day she
01:05:20
didn't show up today and she's only missed a couple of hours is it possible the person calling and leaving the
01:05:25
message is referring to her work history you've worked here for 2 years is what our records indicate that she worked
01:05:33
there two years did she miss several days over the course of those two years in some work environments that's not
01:05:41
acceptable right the other thing in the garage it's not acceptable right the other thing
01:05:48
that we need to keep in mind they they did a great job on Unsolved Mysteries of reenacting ing the message on the
01:05:56
answering machine but that's not like an actual recording that they're playing from my
01:06:03
understanding the only two people who have ever heard this message was those two men men on that day John and Kevin
01:06:12
who went to look for Debbie they played the message erased the message so I'm not saying that they didn't hear
01:06:20
the message I'm not questioning that I would I wouldn't go that far to to suggest that these people would make
01:06:27
this up but what I do find odd is Jenny's statement to the newspaper is they became very concerned
01:06:38
well maybe they did but your other statement was they didn't find anything wrong with the cabin they assumed that
01:06:45
Debbie had left possibly left with somebody in a hurry so they fed the dogs turned off the heater and left the house
01:06:53
right so which was was it were they concerned or was everything just normal I think the tough thing here is the
01:06:59
location of the cabin I mean there's not a lot of neighbors so we don't have a lot of eyewitnesses that saw her coming
01:07:07
into the property with somebody following her or maybe that she was at the property with a different vehicle
01:07:13
meaning that she was there with somebody else but we have clear-cut eyewitness accounts saying that she was at work and
01:07:19
then we obviously have her punching out of work for that day so it's it's very difficult it is very difficult I can say
01:07:28
this uh regarding the voicemail or the answering machine message that it looks like law enforcement was able to
01:07:37
determine who in fact left the message and did question this individual according to Jenny this individual did
01:07:46
work with Debbie uh the family believes that he was one of two men that were interested
01:07:53
in Debbie that was trying to pursue kind some kind of relationship with Debbie refuse their advances as they this guy
01:08:02
was looked at Jenny says that he did not want to take a polygraph test but the Sheriff's Office also say
01:08:11
you know we talked to everyone that the family asked us to interview and we couldn't find anything
01:08:18
in the course of those interviews that would lead us to believe anything other than it was an accidental drowning we
01:08:24
couldn't find anything at the scene that led us to believe anything other than an
01:08:29
accidental drowning yeah but they're saying in that and also omitting any signs of footprints drag
01:08:38
marks or a barrel if any of that existed again it's it's it's very confusing because you have one group one Camp
01:08:48
saying we have these pieces of evidence and the other Camp saying none of that stuff ever existed the tricky thing
01:08:56
though is I go back to the beginning of this case you have two officers on record talking about a
01:09:04
barrel you have the department who decides we're going to come back tomorrow and collect a
01:09:11
barrel there seemed to be at one point regardless if there was a barrel or not a Collective Agreement by the sheriff's
01:09:20
department that a barrel existed so that part is all very confusing to me what Jenny Edwards believes and what her
01:09:29
family believes is kind of a theory as to what possibly happened is that somehow Debbie was taken from her
01:09:41
property held captive for hours probably days and killed in a manner that didn't
01:09:49
leave much in the way of detection probably my guess would be smothered and then placed into the
01:09:56
barrel and dragged into the pond placed in the pond the sheriff's department removes
01:10:03
the body and whoever put her there came back and took the barrel away in the middle of the
01:10:10
night there are a lot of things that have to line up for that to be possible is it impossible
01:10:17
no certainly not impossible and again for me Captain all I can do is label this a
01:10:24
mysterious unexplained death because we don't have any definitive answers or definitive proof or
01:10:32
evidence for me to lean one way or the other if there was a barrel there if she was found in a barrel I'm saying murder
01:10:40
I'm saying foul play I'll go one step step further I'm with you if there's a barrel definitely
01:10:47
this is a homicide needs to be investigated as such but it's the clothing get rid of that Barrel fine you can't
01:10:56
get rid of the fact that she's found in clothes that are not recognizable to anybody friends family or loved
01:11:03
ones and I think you're spot on there captain and it's just like what we saw in the Asia degree
01:11:10
case if you cannot if you cannot find a reasonable explanation why she had a photo of an unknown unidentified girl in
01:11:19
her possession then you cannot explain why she disappeared or why she left her home
01:11:26
that night this is the same thing if there's a barrel that Barrel must be explain
01:11:31
there must be a reason why that Barrel exists and how she ended up in it the other thing you're right take it a step
01:11:37
further where did this clothing come from she didn't just drive home on the 26th and go out and buy a bunch of
01:11:44
clothes that are way too big for her that she didn't need put them on and fall into the middle of a pond and
01:11:50
drown so it's all very difficult I I think that I think that the family is right to keep pursuing this I think that
01:11:59
the sheriff's office was right to call in another agency a state agency to take a look at it it's just a shame that here
01:12:06
we are all these years later with a very uncomfortable uneasy feeling of we don't
01:12:12
have any real answers we don't have a great understanding for what happened to this young woman with a promising future
01:12:20
I think as the fville Observer pointed out I think they nailed it when they said there are many questions in this
01:12:27
case for which law enforcement officers admit they do not have the [Music] answers for everything true crime garage
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