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subject to credit approval see store or ashley.com for details [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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you are what ever you're doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who I thought
00:01:34
would be my Silent Partner here is the captain silent but deadly partner it's good to be seen and good to see you
00:01:41
thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend today we are still drinking garage beer I guess every week Captain
00:01:51
we are drinking garage beer but this garage beer is called garage beer and it's a classic light beer brewed the way
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light beer beer used to be made this is cold refreshing beer 3 G of carbs 95 calories garage grade 3 and 3/4 bottle
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caps out of five and if you would like some true crime garage for your eyeballs check us out on YouTube and if you would
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store Page True Crime garage.com yeah BW R and beerun and that is another off of
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the right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music]
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crime we will be talking a lot about DNA in this case here today but before we get into the DNA evidence and especially
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that cigarette butt that we talked so much about at the end of yesterday's episode we need to talk about the
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suspects police found in Johnny's Social Circle now this is the early stages of the investigation here Captain this is
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within days and weeks after the double homicide now we know that police spoke many times to Johnny's close friend and
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I want to use that term loosely we're being told that they were close friends but it sounds to me Captain that that
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joh may have had a couple of air quotes close friends for a few months the summer and fall prior to his
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murder and these people may not have necessarily been involved in his life prior to that right and so we want to
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make sure we're using that term loosely especially if Johnny's friends and loved
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ones are listening and they and they're getting upset that we're calling this individual close friend but this is how
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it's reported and that's what he's referred to as and we're talking about somebody that we've mentioned briefly
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before Anthony Watson he also goes by Tony and tone Watson now he is a key player here in this investigation and
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either considered to be a suspect or a person with information to police early on in the investigation because he will
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ultimately tell authorities that he was supposed to either stop by the stob house the
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evening of the double homicide or if you listen to the entirety of the interview
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with Anthony Watson he also makes reference to the possibility that Johnny might be
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stopping by his house so I have not been able to sort out if this is Watson changing his story or not wanting to put
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himself as potentially being at the stob house or going to the stob house that night but the reason why we know this to
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be part of the case is that a person who is not considered to be a suspect and should not be considered a suspect uh we
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remember we spoke about Johnny's very close friend the the lifelong friend that ends up talking to
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Tiffany and Zach that night and that's how they ultimately get in touch with Johnny's
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parents so Johnny's lifelong best friend and some others are people that tell the police
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look we know that Anthony Watson was either supposed to drop by the stob house or Johnny was supposed to go to
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Anthony's house that night because Johnny said this to a couple people before the
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murder so this obviously will be somebody that police want to talk to did you did you actually end up going to the
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St house did John end up going to your house and you can hear in the interview that he says no that the Meetup never
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actually took place in fact the the short of it the best way to sum it up is that
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Johnny mentions this to a person that he's on the phone with speaking the person that he's speaking
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to immediately before taking the call from Tiffany Williams Anthony Watson tells police
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that the two were planning to meet up but when it got too late he bailed telling Johnny that he had to get up
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early for school the following morning now I can't vouch for that part of The Alibi right but we do know that Anthony
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Watson was in school at that time um so that that may be just as Anthony Watson says well and we also we don't law
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enforcement has the phone record so they could be able to run that alibi we hope
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so yes we we hope right that they have all of the phone records and so did the two actually see each other that night
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that remains a question for a lot of people and even though the DNA evidence is going to lead us to two other
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individuals both of them not named Anthony Watson there is evidence at the murder
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scene that other persons were involved so we can't really eliminate everybody else just because that DNA led us to two
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other individuals and the tricky thing here though with Watson there's parts of that interview
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and we looked at that interview quite a bit because on the surface he seems to be very much like a like a twin of
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Samuel Williams they you know they dress the same they kind of act the same they they
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both have criminal background ground History of Violence but there's something a little different about
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Watson to me and and it's just this is not proof of anything it's just a it's just kind of a gut reaction that I get
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to his interview that there's something about him that tells that my instinct here Captain is that I believe that he's
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telling the truth more times than he's not telling the truth in that interview he doesn't come off as standoffish to
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law enforcement it seems like he's willing to have a conversation with them he's willing to even Ponder ideas that
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he might not even know if it's true or not here's some rumors I heard I'm not really for sure but he also seems again
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so he seems like he's willing to cooperate and he seems like he's pretty relaxed when you look at some of the
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other interrogations those people come across as not willing to cooperate and they're definitely not
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relaxed yeah it's it's strange too because there were parts of that interview that I thought oh man the way
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that he is he just keeps taking a sip of that drink almost like he's nervous and
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I'm like he's doing that constantly CU he's nervous and he's nervous because he's lying and then I thought that I
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thought the uh detective did a good job trying to back him into a corner and asked him straight up he's like are you
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nervous and Watson says no I'm pissed and I got get getting to think about it and watching him again that could
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explain the that what I thought was nervous drinking and he may just be pissed like he told the officer um he
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that's interesting that you thought he came off as nervous because I I thought he came I mean I guess I didn't notice I
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I have to go back I guess I didn't notice how many times he was taken a drink that was the only part you're
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right though his his verbal just the verbal communication I was trying to watch and get an opinion of him on just
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his physical communication and his body language but his verbal communication with the officer is incredibly casual
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like it it it appears that not only like this guy with a criminal history he's very comfortable with the
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detective and not because he thinks he's smarter than the detective or anything like that it almost feels like like they
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may have they may know each other fairly well because they they speak pretty candidly to one another or at least it
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appears that way and almost in a chummy manner at times too um but he well like he said he has a criminal history so
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this is probably a situation that he's been in before but it's a big difference to be in that situation and be guilty of
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something and to be into that in that situation and not be guilty of something yes and one thing that's interesting he
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he remains an interesting figure in this whole case because where I can't decide
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where he falls again we're looking for additional suspects because we know other people or at least the evidence is
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telling us other people were involved in this double homicide now he remains an interesting figure to me for
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a couple reasons one he tells he does tell police some information like uh that that he had
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heard that there were at least four people involved in the murder and he he references two males and two
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females and the tricky thing though with Watson to me what is not in question is that he
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was in communication with Johnny right and we we that's that is per him he he says that Johnny told other people that
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that night so we he agrees with with that that he was in communication with Johnny on the on the day that
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Johnny was killed what we need to learn more about Watson is exactly what you said Captain
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with the phone records I'm hoping that they have subpoena all the potential people all the proper channels and
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received all of those phone records and then put them together make put them together CR cross reference them and put
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together a a timeline of just the phone calls between about anywhere from four to about eight different people and I
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think you could get a very clear picture or at least a a very good understanding of the
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movements and maybe who was with who that night I think the problem though too is again a guy with a criminal
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history if he knows some of these other individuals that might have been involved it' be hard to fault him for
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not naming names because of what these guys are obviously capable of and I don't know if he has children of his own
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or other family members but that'd be a very tough situation to be in even if you just heard rumors you you don't know
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for certain who was there and to give that information to the police knowing are the police going to be able to catch
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these guys before they come after me well and you're exactly right and we're going to see this throughout the the
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remainder of this investigation and reminder it's not completely solved this is not a solved case that we are talking
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about here today and it's partially solved right yeah if we want if we want to call it that but but the thing is
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Anthony Watson does name names to the to the police I don't know if that that put
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puts him in a or paints him in a different light for for people out there but he does name names now the other
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person that we need to talk about another central figure in this investigation is
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Alexandra kuseno who goes by Alex now police question this woman Alex who would eventually be determined by
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police as the quote common denominator between all the Persons of Interest in the friend group
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regarding anyone's involvement with the murder of the young couple and so while we say common denominator this is going
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to be key here Captain because what is quickly understood by police one thing that they sort out in
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this case is when that DNA evidence on that cigarette butt lead them to Samuel Williams and cameo pedway whose DNA was
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found on that cigarette butt both of them they quickly determined that Samuel Williams and and Cameo pedway did not
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know Lisa stro did not know Johnny that Johnny and Lisa did not know Cameo or Samuel Williams so there has to
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be these two just didn't show up randomly in the middle of the night and kick in the door and attack these people
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and kill them in the way that the horrible way that they were killed nobody believes that the evidence
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suggests otherwise police said from the beginning they believed based off of the
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evidence and the circumstances surrounding the case that the killers were known to our
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victims and so we need someone to Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon right we need somebody that is degree number one two
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and three from Johnny and Lisa to connect us to these persons that the DNA's found in their home and police say
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that this person could be Alexandra kuseno so they say that she may be the common denominator between all the
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persons of interest in the friend group and persons regarding this double homicide so Alex is an of interest to
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the police very early on for several reasons one she had a falling out with Johnny over the purchase of a dog and a
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car so in October of 2010 remember they're killed in 2011 late January Johnny and Lisa agreed to buy a
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puppy off of this Alex keno and this as The Story Goes they agreed to pay her $100 for the
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puppy but only paid her $50 so she's upset about this and the the three of them have words
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over this a couple of times but as the story goes she eventually they eventually make up that they let bygones
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be bygones right then sometime around Thanksgiving this may be have been just before just after
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Thanksgiving now unfortunately we only have Alex here to tell us her side of the story she claims that Johnny was
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constantly trying to talk her in into buying his car Johnny has a Dodge Stratus and he according to Alex wanted
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to sell it to her for $1,500 cash now we do know that Johnny did not have a vehicle at the time of the
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homicide so this will kind of explain away why he does not have a vehicle the the flip side of this story and we we
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have to kind of sort this out and figure out who we believe here is Johnny's friends and family say no no no no no
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she talked him into selling her the car it wasn't Johnny that was constantly asking her to buy it she talked them
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into it so two very different opinions of the same situation different accounts yeah so in
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her interview with police with the with the same detective that interviewed Tony
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Watson Samuel Williams and Tiffany Williams she tells police that that Johnny relentlessly pushed her to
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buy the vehicle despite the fact that she wasn't really interested but she you know was was friends with him and needed
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a car anyway so she agreed to buy the vehicle from him and she says she paid him
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$750 cash and promised that that she would pay him the other 750 either in payments installments or
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or at another time now the way that this goes down is Johnny doesn't sign over the title to
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her so this would be possible further proof that yes she was supposed to pay him the additional
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money right however in December she so she has the car for a very short period of
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time and she gets into this big argument with Johnny about the vehicle and so what John what she's saying is
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that oh the the car was was in really bad shape I had it for a short period of time the tire fell off she's saying that
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the car breaks down so she doesn't want to pay for the rest of it meanwhile others are saying that Johnny was angry
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with her because she wouldn't pay him the rest of the money right what ends up happening is Johnny's parents get
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involved and they are not happy about this whole car situation they think that Alex duped him out of the vehicle and
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probably was trying to get him to sign over the title so she wouldn't have to pay him the extra
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750 and then she recklessly drives this thing so it breaks down now maybe not on
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purpose but she's driving in a manner that you wouldn't drive uh an older car so there was damage to the vehicle
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that's not a question and we know that because once Johnny's parents get involved and guess what once you get the
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law involved whoever's name's on the title has rightful ownership to that vehicle regardless of what exchanged
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hands or what agreement that you had yeah so is law enforcement looking at this as a possible motive uh yes and
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here's why so law enforcement they they go out to uh Alex and they take the vehicle from her and return it to Johnny
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right and so now after that takes place no more money exchanges hands she wants her 700 $50 back Johnny
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wants the car fixed because she she busted up the car so both of them are not happy well the reason why this
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becomes possible motive it's not so much about the car it's not so much about the
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puppy it's not so much about the money that's owed it's the Bad Blood that's Brewing between the two of
00:21:20
them because we we know that that Alex we have several people in this case who said under oath that they
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had knowledge that Alex threatened Johnny's life on more than one occasion so she threatens and and one of
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the threats is very specific saying if you don't give me my $750 back I'm going to send a couple
00:21:51
guys over to your house to kill you and Lisa well this becomes of Interest obviously L to police because what
00:22:00
happened to Johnny and Lisa yeah this happens to Johnny and Lisa less than 60 days after these
00:22:09
threats first start I'm going to send a couple guys over there to kill you and Lisa uh it looks like somebody may have
00:22:17
sent a couple guys over to the str's house the night that they were killed right yeah because like we said
00:22:24
before in the previous few episodes a motive is not that clear yeah it's a nice house maybe there
00:22:33
was some rumors that her her family kept money in the house or possibly a safe but no evidence of that and maybe the
00:22:44
other possibility is that they either had drugs or were going to get drugs or had money for drugs and maybe that
00:22:52
would be possibly the the the motive um and then you hear and the one interrogation that we talked
00:23:00
about um on part three is possibly the idea that look in this scenario you go well
00:23:08
this guy screwed me out of a car so I'm going to send over these thugs to to kill you and that is actually the motive
00:23:15
but they tell the guys going over oh there's money in the house so that's how you're going to get paid yeah well maybe
00:23:25
some of these guys that were down on their and trying to turn around their life thought that this was an
00:23:31
opportunity for a big score to start changing things yeah and and we've seen this in
00:23:38
other cases too right you you get these other persons involved and you say look I need you to go over to this place and
00:23:44
do this thing for me who knows maybe it was just they were just supposed to scare him and beat him up I'll cut you
00:23:52
in on that 750 that I get back or you know I'll pay you X amount of dollars to to carry this out for me and
00:24:00
then what's the smart criminal going to say to the other smart criminal where the hell did you get that kind of
00:24:07
money and then then we go I I don't have that money but your payment is in the stob household it's inside that house so
00:24:18
you carry this out for me I'll help set this thing up I'll make sure that they're there and I'll make sure that
00:24:24
you get whatever money's in that house or we split it so what we do know is that the cigarette
00:24:31
butt collected at the house contained a mix of two male DNA profiles when investigators enter those profiles into
00:24:39
codus into the codus system they get a match to two existing samples in that database Cameo pedway and Samuel Todd
00:24:48
Williams Samuel Todd Williams is arrested for the murders of Lisa strob and Johnny Clark on January 31st
00:24:56
2011 when they were killed but he's not arrested until months and months later um ironically he's picked up while
00:25:05
he's out running to the store to buy a pack of cigarettes and he's 24 years old at the
00:25:11
time and he actually tells police he thought he was being arrested for other reasons remember he's he's got a lengthy
00:25:19
criminal history so he says look I don't know nothing about no murders well then why
00:25:25
do you think we picked you up and why do you think we arrest you he goes oh well
00:25:27
I think I thought it was for some other uh you know I he had a domestic violence warrant out against him
00:25:36
um he also says that his assumption was that he has a promoting prostitution charge and which he's involved in and he
00:25:46
thinks that it could be one or both of those reasons that the police they basically surround him in unmarked cars
00:25:53
and un uniformed officers and they take him down on the street [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do
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[Music] difference all right we are back cheers ladies and gents cheers to you Colonel and cheers
00:28:49
to the people in the back cheers to you Captain when you when I say something like un uniformed officers that makes it
00:28:57
sound like like they're just running the streets nude yeah it's it's plain clothes uh they were wearing plane
00:29:03
clothes uh well it gives a new definition to billy club I'll tell you you see nude individuals running at you
00:29:12
with guns be scared right nice billy club you got there to be too smart to be scared in that situation
00:29:19
so like we had said earlier when Samuel Todd Williams sits down with police I got a whole different
00:29:28
perspective on this guy than I got from somebody like Anthony Watson or even from Tiffany Williams Tiffany Williams
00:29:36
to me doesn't seem smart enough to I think that she's lucky in this situation by either being
00:29:44
confused being confused by her drug addiction or that she can just play dumb because
00:29:52
she she gives unclear evidence and unclear statements and timelines to the police and I think that that really
00:29:59
convoluted the whole situation for police when talking to somebody like Tiffany Williams Samuel Williams who we
00:30:07
look to try to see if there's any relationship between the two because the last names are the same there is none
00:30:14
that's ever reported and I believe that if they were somehow related to one another I get it it's a common name but
00:30:21
these are the checks and balances we try to run here in the garage that I believe this would have
00:30:27
been reported on uh police would have would have said that another common denominator is this Tiffany Williams
00:30:34
person now Tiffany Williams and Samuel Williams and Cameo pedway they all know Alexandra as well so you you have your
00:30:46
common denominators here are Alex and Tiffany Williams that's your hop skiing a jump
00:30:54
that takes you from victim to the two persons arrested with the DNA now when they're talking to him
00:31:01
Captain I get a different vibe on him and the vibe I get on him is this is a dude that's
00:31:08
probably in everyday normal life probably pretty dumb uh makes very bad decisions commits terrible crimes
00:31:16
overall bad dude but guess what he's probably a fairly smart criminal and a career criminal and he's he he seems to
00:31:23
me to be the type that's old school in the way that I'm never going to admit to anything I'm never going to rat on
00:31:30
anybody anytime the cops talk to me about anything at all my answer is I don't know my answer is I is is it
00:31:38
daytime I don't know what's the date don't know I don't know anything yeah and it's it's difficult because you
00:31:45
don't want to call these jackasses intelligent but it's almost maybe not even intelligence as much as
00:31:52
it's just disciplined you ask me a question my answer is always no you ask me you ask me if the sky is blue
00:32:00
I don't know I don't even know what the sky is so when he's talked questioned by
00:32:05
detectives about the murder and asked if there's any bad blood between him and the couple Sam of course is saying I
00:32:13
don't know them I've never been to that house and he asserts that he stays on the side on the east side of Toledo that
00:32:22
he's he's Toledo East Side he doesn't go to the south side or he doesn't go to the west side and at some point Sam
00:32:31
repeatedly tells detectives that he doesn't want to talk he does ask for his attorney uh authorities reveal around
00:32:39
this time that his DNA has been matched to a Newport cigarette a Newport brand cigarette butt that was found at the
00:32:45
murder scene and that his DNA was mixed with another individuals and they know that individual to be Cameo pedway and
00:32:54
Cameo pedway is a known friend in asso associate of Sam Williams and the two have been known to share cigarettes
00:33:02
there were multiple people that confirmed this that the two on occasion would share a cigarette this one
00:33:07
confirmed by the mother of Samuel Williams child one of his sons who verifies that not only had she seen the
00:33:16
two split a cigarette in the past but also that Newport was the preferred brand of
00:33:24
both Sam and cameo so pedway is also charged Cameo is also charged with the double homicide then
00:33:32
the two men are scheduled to be tried separately but with the trials held simultaneously in the same
00:33:39
court now what this the short of it is Captain is that Sam is arraigned via video and pleads not
00:33:47
guilty to two counts of murder and two counts of aggravated burglary his bond is set at $5 million at his arraignment
00:33:55
Lisa's family requests that Sam faced the death death penalty if convicted of the murders to which the state
00:34:02
eventually agrees so here's the tricky part during his interview Sam struggled to remember
00:34:10
his whereabouts on the night of the crime but keep in mind he's being he's never questioned until he's
00:34:18
arrested why because they had nothing connecting victim to Sam Williams because he was until that DNA came back
00:34:25
he didn't seem to be a friend he didn't months seems to be an acquaintance nobody in their Circle the
00:34:32
victim Circle had this guy on their radar so I believe Sam Williams when he says I don't know those people I think
00:34:45
he didn't know them until that night I don't believe him when he says I was never at that house I think he knew them
00:34:51
after he had entered that house but he's not spoken to by police until 8 months months
00:34:58
after approximately eight months after the crimes and so he of course he's not going to be able to look he's two
00:35:07
situations that's all we have here for Sam Williams either he's going to provide attempt to provide an alibi and
00:35:14
and lie because he was in fact at the St home and responsible in these crimes or two he wasn't there and it's
00:35:22
eight months later and he's going to have difficulty sorting out where he was and who he was with right so he
00:35:31
eventually he reviews his own phone records and talks with family and friends and checks on his own social
00:35:40
media he's trying to figure out where he was that night if he wasn't involved or
00:35:47
establish some kind of fake Alibi if he was involved and what he comes up with is he says he was at the bottom line
00:35:54
which is a bar located at 20 053 Star Avenue in Toledo this is on the east side now depending on which route you
00:36:04
take there's a few different common routes that one may take it's approximately 24 minutes to 29 minutes
00:36:11
away from Longacre Lane I'm pointing that out because the the timeline here gets real tight real tight uh with some
00:36:21
of the evidence that we have in the case so he says he's at the bottom line which
00:36:25
is a bar and he's watching the Pro Bowl the NFL Pro Bowl he mentions several other people who he says can confirm
00:36:33
that he's there now keep in mind he's giving this interview October 28th to the detectives he says that Larry
00:36:42
gilhouse was one of the persons that was there at the bottom line with him that night he also says
00:36:49
that Eddie Flores was there with him as well as Destiny Madrid so police talk to Larry gilhouse and he
00:37:03
says that he was there that night and this is what he tells the police he says look Sam was at a party at my house for
00:37:11
my daughter earlier that evening the night of the murders and he says he specifically rememb Sam being there
00:37:20
for a multitude of reasons but one that Sam was the only one who stayed to help him clean up now I believe that the two
00:37:28
are cousins and he says after we cleaned up from the party we went over to the bar to watch the bowl game the Pro Bowl
00:37:40
and he says that gilhouse says the same thing that Samuel Williams tells them that they stayed late they closed down
00:37:48
the bar uh and typically I'm guessing this bar would be a 2:00 2:30 a.m. kind of deal
00:37:57
right um I've looked it up it's it's not one of those mom and popop operations that close at 9 or 10:00 now the other
00:38:04
thing that that is tricky here is one key time in our timeline has always been that 10:41 p.m.
00:38:12
call from Tiffany Williams to our victim Johnny who Tiffany saying that she hears
00:38:20
that the intrusion the home invasion is taking place at 41 I I did a little record checking here
00:38:31
on this Pro Bowl because I was super suspicious of this whole Pro Bowl situation yeah it seems like they're
00:38:39
making a big deal out of this Pro Bowl but it's not like everybody that likes professional football loves the Pro Bowl
00:38:46
so the Pro Bowl ended at approximately 10:45 p.m. that night so that would be after the 1041 Tiffany call that's
00:38:54
always been a big part of this case now the reason why our timeline gets so tight here with
00:39:02
this possible Alibi is one thing that we cannot dismiss because it's it's data telling us that there was a phone call
00:39:13
made on Sam's phone at 10:27 p.m. that pinged off of a cell phone tower near the bottom line bar so he would be at
00:39:23
10:27 p.m. his phone I can't say where Sam was but his phone was 24 to 29 minutes away from Long Acre
00:39:35
Lane where the two were killed this call to me is all kinds of strange because part of his Alibi is
00:39:46
he's at the bottom line bar with these three other individuals he closes the bar down with a couple of them and then
00:39:54
later he is hanging out with this Destiny Madrid girl for the early morning hours of the
00:40:02
following day you know they're going to party all night together but the phone call that puts his phone so many miles
00:40:09
away from the from the crime scene and in a time frame that doesn't leave enough time for him to get there
00:40:17
to be there at 10:41 p.m. that call is a call with Destiny Madrid one of the people that he said
00:40:26
he's already hanging out with so we know he's not already hanging out with her right what we end up what we end up
00:40:32
learning is that the explanation given is that oh she was on her way he was calling to see when she would get there
00:40:40
you know where are you I thought we were hanging out and so she's making her way
00:40:44
to the bar at that time so these this explanation this Alibi ultimately are not believed by the police and
00:40:58
I've heard it's hard to believe it because you have his DNA at the crime scene exactly ex that's if there was no
00:41:05
DNA at the crime scene then you go well this story is maybe plausible there's some people that have
00:41:11
said you know what he couldn't have got there that fast in that time um that look let's be clear here the cell phone
00:41:17
tower records put him near the they don't we can't we can't use that data to put his ass on a bar stool at the bottom
00:41:26
line right bar all we can say is that his cell phone was in the area of a tower near the bottom line bar could
00:41:35
could he have already been in a riding shotgun in a vehicle driving away from the bottom line bar at that time or or
00:41:43
away from the area of the bottom line yes that would put him at Longacre Lane right around the 1041 Peri time
00:41:53
period if time of the murder you know I'm thinking that late at night that late at night he's there's
00:42:01
probably little to no traffic at all of Toledos any I mean Columbus is a much bigger city than Toledo and it's a it's
00:42:07
damn near a ghost town at 10 o'clock at night on a Sunday you you can move pretty quick through our city at 10 pm.
00:42:16
on a Sunday night and so could he had already been in a vehicle making its way there I
00:42:24
believe so because for all the people people that that get on to police here and say look you use cell phone
00:42:31
information to put a suspect at a crime scene but when the cell phone information tells you that they were
00:42:36
elsewhere you you dismiss it and but the problem here is we we don't have to fully explain all of the cell phone
00:42:46
information you don't even have to get to that [ __ ] until after you fully explain the DNA information the DNA puts
00:42:55
him in theu Rob house if he cannot if that cannot be explained away or proven to be
00:43:02
incorrect then we don't even have to get to the cell phone information because guess what I can hand my cell phone off
00:43:07
to Destiny Madrid and she can make calls and do walk around town with it and hop
00:43:12
in cars and go to bars and have a great time with my cell phone while I'm across
00:43:17
town doing unspeakable acts inside of that home yeah and I think the problem with law enforcement is what is the DNA
00:43:25
connected to cuz his his DNA is not found on the victims it's not found on other items in the house it's found on a
00:43:34
cigarette butt and so he's going well I can explain that away because that item could have been brought to the scene so
00:43:44
this Pro Bowl Alibi has bothered me big time and and and here's why Captain you and I are
00:43:53
very big fans of the NFL in fact last night we must have traded a dozen text in the middle of a game and guess what
00:44:00
we're watching we're both watching the same game neither of us really care for either we're not big fans of either of
00:44:06
the teams playing we're just very much into the NFL do you give do you care at all about
00:44:14
the Pro Bowl how when's the last time have you watched a pro bowl no never I cannot recall the last
00:44:21
time I watched a pro bowl I did watch one I just don't know when last time I watched one captain and I can't even put
00:44:28
a date on it but this will tell you about how long ago it was I was in gardo pizza on Broadway yeah and the mo I
00:44:37
thought the most entertaining part of the Pro Bowl was the Dr Pepper halftime uh extra point kick or field goal kick
00:44:45
if the if that if that civilian kicked the ball through the uprights that they won like a million dollars or something
00:44:52
right and that that description to you now our listeners don't know any of what that means but wouldn't that you believe
00:45:01
that that's probably 20 years ago that this really big NFL fan watched a pro bowl the reason why I have a problem
00:45:08
with this Pro Bowl thing is that Johnny was at his friend's house watching the Pro Bowl that is not in question what's
00:45:14
in question is what was Sam Williams doing that night and is his Alibi of being at a bar watching the Pro Bowl
00:45:20
does it hold any weight and I've cannot believe that there is a story out there in 2011 that two people of this young of
00:45:33
an age both that care so much to watch the Pro Bowl now could I be wrong absolutely but but but in his defense it
00:45:40
could be eyes out a bar and the Pro Bowl happened to be on right proba he probably didn't care that much he
00:45:49
probably is like you whatever happened at halftime was probably more important than the the whole entire game
00:45:56
exactly but people cite the specificity of his Alibi the details he's able to provide
00:46:05
just not not just what he was doing but here's my movements and here's the details and here's three other
00:46:10
individuals to back this all up people people highlight that and say that it is suggestive that this Alibi is is
00:46:22
true and I agree with that thought however I the wrench that I want to throw into that to this
00:46:32
equation is I spoke to several people that know Johnny that knew Johnny very well and I said he told you he was at a
00:46:42
friend's house watching the Pro Bowl yes he even told me that the two friends he
00:46:46
was watching it with I said we know that Tiffany Williams was in constant contact
00:46:51
based off of the phone records with Johnny that night are you of the opinion that if asked what he was doing that
00:46:59
Johnny would offer up that information to Tiffany Williams would he offer up that information to Anthony Watson who
00:47:05
we know he was in contact with that night and everybody said yes he was Johnny was pretty much an open book hey
00:47:12
what are you doing oh I'm at so- and so's house we're watching the Pro Bowl after this I'm going to go pick up Lisa
00:47:17
and we're going to head back to her place the reason why I'm I'm highlighting that Captain is because I
00:47:23
think that if Tiffany Williams wasn't at that home when they were killed or in the home that night that she had
00:47:31
knowledge of what was going on what took place inside of that home and we know that based off of her statement to the
00:47:38
family this is before anybody even arrives on the scene that she saw that the place had been ransacked which could
00:47:44
not physically have happened unless she was in the home or had knowledge from someone who was in the home at that that
00:47:50
night yeah so just to just to make that perfectly clear for everybody listening Tiffany Williams tells the parents
00:47:58
before the cops or anybody shows up at the crime scene that the house was rans sacked when the police get there and the
00:48:04
police go there multiple times they have they find no evidence to give them probable calls to enter that property if
00:48:12
they would have been able to see through any window that the house was possibly ransacked they would have had probable
00:48:20
cause and they would have been been able to enter that property and that never happened correct and because they never
00:48:26
entered the home they they couldn't because nobody could see inside the house so then she has to have knowledge
00:48:32
she's privy to knowledge that that nobody else was at that at that scene at that time so she's privy to that
00:48:40
knowledge prior to going to the scene with the cops and and the parents now the reason why I'm bringing
00:48:49
that all up is because I believe that there were a couple people one if not maybe two
00:48:56
people that were keeping tabs on Johnny that day and that night whoever wanted to carry this out
00:49:03
they wanted to carry it out in the St home and they wanted Johnny to be there and so if Johnny so willingly
00:49:12
offered up this information I'm over at so and so's house watching the Pro Bowl I won't be home until I pick up
00:49:19
Lisa when she gets off work at 10: if we have multiple people telling us that would willingly give up that
00:49:26
information to others there's no reason to not believe that he may have told Tiffany Williams that that he may have
00:49:33
told Zach that who he was in contact with and and or that he may have told Anthony Watson that and the reason why
00:49:40
I'm saying that Captain is because guess what if I'm the third party if I'm the muscle if I'm Sam Williams Cameo pedway
00:49:52
and I'm waiting on the call waiting on the call for you to tell me it's go time we got to get to the
00:49:59
Longacre Lane it's not that far of a stretch to believe that there was another phone call or communication
00:50:06
where someone says he's not at home he's at he's watching the Pro Bowl and if I'm the muscle waiting on
00:50:13
that and now eight months later I need an alibi what's one thing that I know that took place that night the Pro Bowl
00:50:20
because I remember being told oh we going we're going to have to wait he's busy watching the Pro Bowl and I I think
00:50:26
that that somewhere in this maybe this Alibi the Genesis of this Alibi started with information that Sam Williams had
00:50:36
before Lisa and Johnny were killed now we're going to get into some phone call information here and this is the time in
00:50:46
the show look we're we're not a kid-friendly show it's e for explicit not e for everyone rated on this show uh
00:50:54
and so if you got young ones in the vehicle or you don't want to hear words yourself uh it's time to e muff up uh
00:51:00
like they say in Old School ear muff up but uh I forgot about that of all muffs ear
00:51:09
muffs here here's something that's going to make Alex not look so good okay so she's in a squabble with somebody
00:51:18
else somebody not related to this case at all but this person gives this information to the police and this is
00:51:26
not going to look good for her she's in a squabble with somebody else and this is about a week
00:51:32
after okay let's here we go I here's I found the information in my notes here so we're talking about alexandraa kuseno
00:51:40
her possible involvement and and in fact when police are talking to Anthony Watson Anthony Watson tells the police
00:51:47
that he believes that Johnny bot perco setes off of someone named Peanut and he knows
00:51:54
who peanut is Peanut a nickname but he gives Peanut's real name to the police and he says look I believe that from
00:52:01
what I've heard Johnny owed peanut some money maybe even a bunch of money but the police are like well do you think
00:52:07
that peanut would would be involved to would get take retaliation or go to collect his money and Watson says no I
00:52:17
don't think that peanut would retaliate even if there was money that was owed because he knew of several other
00:52:23
individuals that were still alive and well that owed money to Pina right and this is this is months after this is
00:52:30
about two months after the the homicides now what what will what Anthony Watson does Supply police with is that he
00:52:39
says that he heard that Alexander Keno was involved uh ap's ex-girlfriend so AP is
00:52:49
another nickname he tells police that he believes that there are at least four people involved and
00:52:56
then what we end up finding out is that this Alexander Keno the woman who's the common
00:53:03
denominator determined to be the common denominator by police less than 24 hours
00:53:08
after the bodies were discovered we find out that she sent a text message to someone that she's in a
00:53:15
squabble with that says I do this [ __ ] fam watch the news [ __ ] [ __ ] get ducked taped and
00:53:25
tied up and left for dead that's her text message to somebody else that she's in a fight with and it it has beef with
00:53:33
less than 24 hours after the bodies were discovered yeah this is her bragging that she killed them this is a
00:53:40
confession yeah so Anthony Watson tells authorities of a conversation that he had weeks before he's picked up in
00:53:47
question with a woman who is not identified in any reporting source that I could find he says the woman in this
00:53:54
conversation placed herself at the scene of the crime he also alleges that Sam Williams and another man named Dro and a
00:54:03
second woman were present at the murder the four had broken into the stob residence seeking a safe that was
00:54:08
rumored to be in the home and one thing we need to be clear about him potentially implicating multiple
00:54:17
people in this crime Watson does tell police admits to fearing for his own safety and that of his families now the
00:54:25
other phone calls Captain Sam Williams once he's in jail waiting trial you know they record those calls well Sam makes a
00:54:36
phone call and and tells a relative I [ __ ] up I'm going to be in here for a long time now he will go to trial Sam
00:54:46
will go to trial and at his trial this is presented by the prosecution as an admission of
00:54:52
guilt and he says no that's simply taken out of context there was also another possible incriminating phone call that
00:55:00
is made this is in April of 2012 this is when Sam Williams still in jail waiting
00:55:08
trial calls Steven pedway Stephen pedway is the brother of the alleged accomplice
00:55:14
Cameo pedway who's also arrested for the double murder and on this call Sam says
00:55:19
to stevene that was supposed to be me and you but you know little bro had to step
00:55:25
up to take your spot man you know he didn't do it right like I would have done it oh sorry Steven responds to Sam
00:55:34
saying you know he didn't do it right like I would have done it to which Sam replies no but he did it good enough to
00:55:39
make something happen well they all sound like real pieces of [ __ ] so this sounds like it was supposed to be
00:55:45
Stephen Cameo older brother who was super tight the everything I could find Captain suggests that Sam and Steph were
00:55:53
like best friends right and that Cameo is Stephen's little brother and that he was that Sam and
00:56:00
Cameo were tight as well and a lot of times the three of them would would run together but I think that Steph may have
00:56:08
been locked up for something at this time and so if somebody was looking to hire
00:56:13
muscle Sam and Cameo got the job not Sam and Stephen and so again the prosecution at
00:56:21
trial is saying this is further indication that he's implicating him self in these crimes and Cameo as well
00:56:29
but Sam says look this was is was taken out of context as well that this was this was in reference to
00:56:38
their the three of them were kind of run in this prostitution ring together and we know that because all
00:56:46
three of them had been arrested at different times for promoting prostitution right and I know that a lot
00:56:51
of people don't like to hear that word but that's that's the ter that's the word and term that's used in the charges
00:56:57
so that's what yeah that's the that's the term we're using yes so he says that that is he's referencing like Cameo was
00:57:06
doing a good job helping us run this ring but he wasn't making enough he wasn't making enough money he should
00:57:11
have been making more money he was doing good but he could have done it better well I mean we can't we can't sit here
00:57:18
and claim to know 100% that that's not truth but it also seems pretty logical that he may have been referring to the
00:57:26
murders as well in these conversations so even though that we believe that there's four maybe more people
00:57:34
involved uh maybe even a lookout person maybe a contact person for all the different
00:57:40
individuals law enforcement is able to charge and bring two individuals to trial they're not going to be tried
00:57:50
together but they're going to be tried at the same time and in the same courtroom and the weird
00:57:57
thing here is they're using that same evidence against both of these individuals the cigarette butt uh Sam
00:58:02
Williams DNA found on it Cameo pedway DNA found on that same cigarette but that was found at the crime scene
00:58:09
now police were trying to move on other suspects as well especially Alex or Alexandra but I think that they believed
00:58:19
once they had this evidence that put Sam and Cameo at the crime scene that that those two would start talking
00:58:25
unfortunately neither of them confessed anything and did not implicate anybody else in the crimes either and then to
00:58:33
further complicate issues Cameo pedway his case gets tossed so the judge says that the only evidence they have on
00:58:45
Cameo is that cigarette butt nothing else nobody's saying that they even heard that he was there he's not
00:58:51
implicated himself in any form or fashion where with Sam Williams they have other evidence against him so the
00:58:58
judge tosses pettway's case for lack of evidence don't get on to the judge about
00:59:06
this because if if you take cameoed away to trial and he's found innocent you can't try him again the judge isn't
00:59:13
saying Cameo pedway didn't do this the judge is saying you need to have a stronger case against this individual to
00:59:19
have it in my courtroom but the judge determines that there's enough evidence against Sam
00:59:26
Williams and part of this evidence is those phone calls part of the evidence is individuals saying that they had
00:59:33
heard that Sam Williams was involved and then part of the evidence also will be what the captain hates the
00:59:39
most a jailhouse snitch so this individual his last name is uh Yingling so it's Eric Yingling he will testify in
00:59:52
court that not only did Williams confess the to the crimes to him that that Williams also provided a lot of detail
01:00:01
about the murders right and that he had information given to him by Sam Williams
01:00:10
that would have only been known to The Killers or law enforcement and part of that information
01:00:19
was something at the crime scene remember we talked about the expensive jewelry in the home was not taken by the
01:00:27
perpetrators and also all of that Iraqi currency that I believe there was like $4,500 in several different envelopes
01:00:35
that was all Iraqi currency and that Sam Williams had told Yingling something to the effect of you
01:00:43
know Yingling when when when Williams is telling him about the crimes according to Yingling you know he wants to know
01:00:50
well did you ever find the safe or how much money did you find in the house and William tells him well the only large
01:00:57
amount of money that we found in the home was the Saddam Hussein money that we couldn't do anything with so we left
01:01:03
it and at the time at the trial it was believed that that was information that would have only been known to the stobs
01:01:10
to police and to the killers and they use this information against Sam Williams along with the
01:01:18
other information that we've already gone through now I do want to be clear here that it was late it's
01:01:25
there has been later the accuracy of of that information only being privy to the
01:01:33
killer in law enforcement has been called into question for good reason because I believe it was CNN I know that
01:01:40
it was reported I believe it was CNN that reported that the Iraqi currency foreign currency was found in the home
01:01:48
so somebody watching that news clip or following the case may have known about that information and could have
01:01:59
fed it to the jail house snitch yling so again two people charged basically based
01:02:06
off the same evidence but in one of the cases they're not going to be be able to
01:02:10
use that evidence so what is the outcome of these two trials well after hearing from 27
01:02:17
Witnesses and reviewing more than 130 exhibits in a 4-day trial we have a jury of 12 who finded Sam Williams
01:02:26
guilty of two counts of murder two counts of kidnapping and a single count of aggravated
01:02:32
burglary and he ultimately will get sentenced to two life sentences without the possibility of
01:02:44
parole So eventually the death penalty goes away in this case now we do know that
01:02:52
the families or at least the Clark family were big advocates for the death penalty in this situation yeah which is
01:03:02
which is understandable in this situation now where the case sits today Captain is Samuel Williams is still in
01:03:10
prison and the evidence and what some of the people were telling police s is suggestive that there were four persons
01:03:19
in the home that night if not more and so who were these other three and even if you include Cameo pedway
01:03:28
whose DNA was found at the scene you still have two people that are not known not identified never been
01:03:37
charged so the the outstanding theories on the case are that The Intruders broke
01:03:44
into the St home on on the night of January 30th 2011 looking for the safe looking for any money or even possible
01:03:54
drug drugs that might have been in the home and that they were so there was unfortunately there
01:04:04
was considerable damage to both Lisa and Johnny that is not from killing them so one could believe that
01:04:16
maybe they're being tortured or they're being hit they're being assaulted to provide information where's the safe
01:04:23
where's the safe where's the money where's the money um so the way that the theories
01:04:30
work is that either they were intentionally killed or that the bags were used as some form of
01:04:39
torture to try to get information from them or torture to send a message to them in retaliation for something else
01:04:47
and that one of them actually one of them accidentally died and then they had to kill the other
01:04:55
one that's why we talked about early in this case that that the coroner could not sort out who died
01:05:02
first and there there was concern with that inside of this case in the investigation the other theory is that
01:05:14
based off of the interviews with Johnny's friend Tony Anthony Watson Tony or tone
01:05:20
Watson that he was telling the truth that Anthony Watson told police that a woman in their Circle named Alexandra
01:05:27
Keno yeah that witch who had a history of having altercations with Johnny before the
01:05:35
murders that she was involved and she got others involved and were responsible for the
01:05:46
murders some things that occurred to me in this case captain that we talked about offline the other day
01:05:55
you know why would Tiffany make those calls why would she get other people involved after the fact if she set
01:06:00
everybody up if she was making arrangements and I said one it would be to explain away why she made the 1041
01:06:07
call at all right but there's a couple of other reasons why she may have made these
01:06:13
calls could she have provided Transportation could she have been a driver to him from and that's how she
01:06:19
got the knowledge of the house being ransacked before she should have had that before anybody else had that
01:06:23
knowledge or did she offer up a vehicle that could be used and she wasn't the driver we do
01:06:31
know that prior according to her own story before going over to the stra home that night that she stopped by another
01:06:38
individual's house and was there for about an hour and that she took a borrowed vehicle with her it was not
01:06:42
Zach's vehicle it was not her vehicle did she simply go over there and hide out for an hour or so and let
01:06:50
somebody some other people's that were at that location use her vehicle or use that vehicle that
01:06:58
wouldn't have ties to the individuals occupying the vehicle right because again it didn't belong to
01:07:05
Tiffany or Zach and here's the other thing for the call the late night call that ends up getting in communication
01:07:13
with Johnny Clark's parents I've wondered one of the persons they tried to call well one of the
01:07:19
people they did speak to remember Zack called John lifelong friend reuben reuben is the only reason why
01:07:29
this thing gets back to the Clarks at all and the Clark showing up that night calling the police causes all kinds of
01:07:37
problems for Tiffany and Zach if they're trying to hide something and all the people responsible in this
01:07:44
case I've been wondering if they were really concerned they would figure out how to call the
01:07:50
Clarks they weren't calling the Clarks they weren't asking Reuben how do we get in touch with the Clarks no they
01:07:58
were talking to Reuben they were trying to get Reuben to ride over to the St house with
01:08:03
them a peer of Johnny and Lisa's I'm starting to wonder were they trying to get this dude back to this crime scene
01:08:12
and set him up is the muscle still sitting there do we have Sam Williams and Cameo pedway splitting a cigarette
01:08:19
in the in the closed garage over at the St home while they're waiting for Tiffany and Zack to try to bring this
01:08:26
innocent back to the home and maybe where yeah no I think they may have wanted to off him and try to make
01:08:35
it look like he was responsible for the murders right remember we got the missing knives from the home what if
01:08:44
they would have you know sorry but what if we would have made some postmortem stab wounds and and then put some knives
01:08:52
on this Reuben kid yeah uh it it's it's weird that they got anybody else involved and I and I I applaud you for
01:09:00
pointing that out early on in this case Captain because it doesn't make sense that if Tiffany was and Zach were
01:09:06
involved or knew what happened that they would alert anybody unless their conscience got to them in a in the short
01:09:13
course of two hours but I don't think that it did I think that these calls and alerting
01:09:19
other people was to either make something else happen set this set somebody else up and frame somebody
01:09:27
else or to explain away their prior actions that they know they cannot hide the data the phone records will always
01:09:34
be there so you need to explain them away now regarding Tiffany Williams in December of
01:09:41
2014 somebody shot Fires at or somebody fired shots at Tiffany Williams now she wasn't hit but what we end up learning
01:09:51
is that John in my Clark Johnny's parents they are arrested a short period of time
01:10:00
after these shots are fired at Tiffany Williams and they're Char they're charged with attempted assault really on
01:10:06
her wow and there's no doubt that they that that John Clark fired those shots at Tiffany Williams that they have been
01:10:17
an open book about this they said look she was involved in the killing of our son and Lisa St we lost our damn
01:10:24
Minds she was never charged with anything and we we went out looking for her one night and fired some shots at
01:10:33
her so they've they've been they've been clean and clear about this now they they
01:10:37
both went to to prison for it they're both out now but they this is not something that they hide from this is
01:10:44
not something that they deny in fact this is something that they are shouting from the mountain tops there were other
01:10:49
people involved in the murder of these two young individuals and they've nobody else has been
01:10:55
charged nobody else has been sentenced nobody else is in prisoned but this one dude yeah it's a way of putting fear
01:11:04
into other individuals and maybe they thought well she is not that bright and maybe she's the weakest length and if we
01:11:13
could scare her enough maybe she starts telling the cops names and and breaking down exactly how this all went
01:11:22
down and why it went down well and another update remember Anthony Watson Tony or tone Watson who told
01:11:30
police that he had a conversation with an unidentified woman who placed herself at the crime scene who also implicated
01:11:36
Sam Williams and alleged that two others a man and another woman were also involved and guess what the DNA at the
01:11:45
scene is telling us that that this information could be correct that there was a a female perpetrator involved at
01:11:53
least one female perpetrator if not two and we know that there were at least two
01:11:59
different male dnas found because we know they charged but then dropped the charge against Cameo so Watson's
01:12:07
information to police could be correct and we had mentioned that this information his cooperation with police
01:12:15
he he told them that he he was afraid for his life and for that of his families after providing this
01:12:21
information they do hook up his his felony count that he was facing on a on a completely unrelated case was reduced
01:12:29
to a misdemeanor uh and he only ended up receiving probation for that uh when he
01:12:35
plad guilty to that charge we also don't know if if the prosecutor or law enforcement had intended to drop it to a
01:12:43
misdemeanor all all along and this was just icing on the cake you get his cooperation for something you were
01:12:49
already going to do anyway but that information his cooperation may have come at a high price he was killed he
01:12:57
was fatally shot outside of his apartment in September of 2018 so an unknown as salent or as
01:13:06
salance gun him down near his apartment in Toledo Ohio he shot he's shot in the leg he
01:13:14
calls 911 to report that he's been shot and while he's still laying there waiting on
01:13:21
Emergency Services to show up calls his mother and he later dies at the hospital
01:13:29
and he's he's dying on the phone call to his mom he was only 30 years old at the
01:13:35
time of his death and as far as I could find Captain there's officially there's been no suspects identified and his
01:13:41
murder remains unsolved Cameo pedway who's who got lucky and the judge tossed his case in
01:13:50
this double homicide he gets p picked up in 2012 for beating up a girlfriend he's
01:13:55
convicted of that charge he gets 6 years in prison for that he gets out and he's
01:14:01
not out for long because in 2020 he's accused in a shooting a gun assault that takes place
01:14:10
now I looked for an update on his case and as far as I could find the information that's most up to date is
01:14:19
2023 February right and I could not figure out if he had been convicted of that charge or if he was still waiting
01:14:28
trial now in the end Alexandra Keno did submit DNA refused to take a polygraph but did agree to give her DNA
01:14:39
to the detectives we know that there had been unknown male and female DNA found on Johnny's sweat inside of Johnny
01:14:47
sweatpants Pockets we talked about the the removing of the wallet but what we do know is that when this DNA comes back
01:14:55
and it doesn't match Alexander Keno's police decide to not charge her with any crime it looks to me though as if she
01:15:04
remains a suspect strong suspect in this case now how do we solve this case I think
01:15:12
this case is very solvable and it helps that you have one of the persons responsible already in prison but I
01:15:18
don't know if this dude Williams is ever going to talk if if he's going to spend
01:15:22
the rest of his life prison he doesn't want to be labeled a snitch so how do you solve this case I
01:15:29
think it's there's three easy answers here one or all three could lead you to the the answers you're seeking one is as
01:15:36
we've said a couple times in this case subpoena all the phone records right at the very least you need Johnny's Sam
01:15:43
Williams Tiffany Williams Anthony Watson and Alexander keno and probably fat Zachs as well and Lisa strs if you had
01:15:52
all those phone records and you put them together cut and paste those babies and
01:15:57
put them into sequential order you might have a much more clear understanding of
01:16:02
that night the other per the other item that I would work heavily on if I'm an investigator is identifying this
01:16:08
individual that is referred to as Dro we don't know this person's real name but he comes up multiple times from multiple
01:16:16
different sources when people were talking to police Dro even Anthony Watson said that Dro may have been one
01:16:23
of the people responsible do you know his real name no now look I'm just I'm just some dude
01:16:29
sitting in a garage but here's where I go with this Dro we know is slang for good marijuana or
01:16:36
pot I know this by my limited knowledge of rap music right Dr is used by people like Eminem 50 Cent Kanye West and the
01:16:44
late and great Nate Dog and many many more so could Dro be reference to somebody that has really good weed
01:16:51
that's selling really good stuff and 2011 2010 right the other thing too that I would push on is Drew
01:17:01
War we know per the court records and per conversations with detectives that Tiffany Williams hung out with an
01:17:10
individual named Drew Warren that night when we're talking about nicknames Dro doesn't sound like too far of a
01:17:17
stretch from Drew to me no and then the final thing here Captain is obvious the obvious identify the
01:17:26
other DNA evidence found at the scene per reports I don't know the exact number but it's been reported heavily
01:17:33
that about a dozen to possibly even as high as two dozen people have submitted their DNA DNA when asked by police and
01:17:41
we know that the the persons that submitted DNA they don't match the DNA of the perpetrators that was found at
01:17:48
the crime scene we also know that that when they checked it with cotus the only two names that came back was P away and
01:17:54
Williams and they charge both of them one of them's in prison right so it's identifying these other sources of DNA
01:18:02
now we know that the DNA didn't come from Alexandra kuseno do we let her off the hook not so fast my friend I think
01:18:11
that she could still be on the hook for this and and not have left her DNA at the scene or if she did they didn't find
01:18:17
it at the scene if she's involved you're going to need other persons to turn on her and police haven't moved off of her
01:18:24
fully yet uh she's gone on to commit some pretty terrible crimes or be accused of committing some other
01:18:32
possible crimes well and also in this case you get too many people involved you get people starting to talk just
01:18:40
because they feel like they're safe or that law enforcement can't get to them and the streets will get to you and
01:18:48
we've seen that already happen and take place in this case well and I I want to throw out a challenge to the Lucas
01:18:57
County Sheriff's Department who were the lead on this case I do think they did a
01:19:02
lot of good work in this case uh especially when it came to rounding up some individuals and questioning them we
01:19:08
know that they did good work by calling in BCI to secure the scene and come up with physical evidence right and
01:19:14
forensics in this case that that ultimately led to an arrest and a conviction but I don't here's the thing
01:19:22
Luc County when Sam Williams sits there and he answers all those questions he talks
01:19:30
to you that whole damn time he believes I'm smarter than these cops and you thought that when you told
01:19:39
him we found your DNA at the scene he would crack and he' sing like a bird and he
01:19:45
didn't he sat there and he still denied knowing anybody denied ever being there and so we sit here all of these
01:19:54
years later and he does look like the smart one because here's where the case stands
01:20:00
the police know based off of the physical evidence that other individuals were there that night and responsible
01:20:07
for what happened to these two young people they are not locked up none of those other people are locked
01:20:15
up so Williams was smarter that day and you're letting until you lock up those other individual you're letting
01:20:23
him win he's beat you Alexander Keno who who you interviewed multiple times and she sits
01:20:30
there acting like she's smarter than the detectives if she was involved she outsmarted
01:20:36
you and I'm challenging the Lucas County Sheriff's Office to solve this case 100%
01:20:42
because what they have said publicly they're talking out of both sides of their mouths and I don't like it in
01:20:49
2021 Mike Navar the Lucas County Sheriff says to the families publicly says to the families of Lisa and Johnny that he
01:20:59
and his office are committed to getting Justice for their loved ones to solving this case and bringing all that are
01:21:05
responsible and holding them responsible that's not happened we're over two years later after that
01:21:12
statement that's not happened the other statement that's come out though Captain well do the
01:21:18
genealogy research on the DNA that you collected at the scene of the of the perpetrators of the suspects and the
01:21:25
Lucas County Sheriff's office has said we don't have the funds for that we can't afford to do that so you're going
01:21:32
to let the bad guys win over something as silly as money you know you you point out to the public plenty of times these
01:21:39
poor kids were killed for $45 or or less than $200 or whatever it was you reference money you referenced their not
01:21:47
being a safe in the house and maybe money was the motive and now we're now we're referencing money money as an
01:21:53
excuse that this thing has not been solved completely well it's not just Justice for the family or Justice for
01:21:59
the victims but it's also these are these individuals that were involved in this crime are animals and they need to
01:22:06
be pulled off the streets not in the society because if they're if they're in society there there's a chance that this
01:22:16
would happen again to other victims over basically nothing and you can't afford the funding well
01:22:25
there's organizations that will help you get the funding this kind of this kind of work
01:22:33
Captain would take approximately six to eight grand per profile so if there were
01:22:40
three other individuals involved we're talking at most even conservatively let's on the
01:22:46
higher end about $25,000 to completely solve this thing and and here's that's not a whole lot of money and I get it
01:22:54
different Counties have different funding for different investigations and different resources so I'm not faulting
01:23:00
them for not having the resources I'm faulting them for what you just said not accepting the help of others that can
01:23:07
help you clear that hurdle of not having the funding and who were these others individuals CC Moore world-renowned
01:23:15
genetic geneology who publicly offered up her services to Lucas County to help them
01:23:22
this mystery of the unknown DNA profiles that were found to this day Lucas County's not
01:23:30
taken her up on that offer we know that she solved some of the some very big high-profile cases in this country she's
01:23:37
offering to help you with her services and that's not been taken so you don't need funds for cc more okay and then on
01:23:46
top of it Captain points out yes there are groups okay so we have Toledo cares is it advocacy group it's a community
01:23:53
group that works with law enforcement to assist in bringing Justice to murder victims and their families they're a pro
01:23:59
police organization in the Toledo community for the past seven decades that this isn't
01:24:05
just something that was born 10 minutes ago seven decades they've they've been a
01:24:11
part of the Toledo community Toledo cares has agreed to use their considerable local and National
01:24:19
connections to help offer additional resources in this case in this investigation and I can tell you this
01:24:25
true crime garage we have offered our assistance in several other cases yes does a lot of that come through the
01:24:34
porch light project of course but that's several at least three Ohio cases that we've
01:24:42
positively identified DNA through the porch light project well we know for fact in a couple of these
01:24:50
cases sorry in a couple of these cases True Crime garage damn near funded the whole entirety of the
01:24:57
case and we're currently working sorry we're currently working with law enforcement in an outof State
01:25:05
case so now you have CC Mo Toledo cares True Crime garage I know that you have WTO the news station up there that have
01:25:16
have continued to broadcast this story even all of these years later who have attempted to rally the
01:25:24
troops and and get the community involved this does not have to be Lucas County Sheriff's Office going this
01:25:31
alone this this we've rallied the troops it's a whole community that wants to help Lucas County Sheriff's Office solve
01:25:39
this thing and guess what at the end of the day we help you Lucas County we help
01:25:44
you Sheriff's Office and you get to stand up at the podium and you get to take all of the praise for solving this case
01:25:54
once you finally do it yeah and when the and when the crispy Colonel is saying True Crime garage it's not just
01:26:06
the colonel and the captain it's all the amazing listeners that have donated to the porchlight project and if we if they
01:26:14
came to us and said well it's going to be this much money we' do a call to action and we know that we have the the
01:26:23
support of the listeners that would raise that money and then Justice would be served not just for the victims and
01:26:29
the families but for that community and for the whole state of Ohio the beer fund has put many a cold
01:26:38
beer in the old garage fridge but it's also sent a lot of dollars to the National Center for missing and
01:26:43
exploited children it's provided a K9 dog uh a K9 Officer for a jurisdiction the sheriff's department down in the
01:26:53
great state of Florida it's identified several victims and suspects and perpetrators of crimes through the porch
01:27:01
light project and as said we're now working with law enforcement on an outof State case as well so every dollar
01:27:08
counts and we're making sure that it counts and it doesn't just go to the the garage fridge all the time look anybody
01:27:16
with information in this case please come forward there's still some puzzle pieces that need to be sorted out in
01:27:22
this case I believe it's very solvable we've pointed out the reasons why it's solvable and how it can be solved so if
01:27:29
you have information and this is one thing we need to talk about here just briefly before we let everybody go here
01:27:34
Captain is that when you have a homicide investigation time is a detective's enemy in the early stages of the
01:27:43
investigation time was certainly the enemy for detectives in this case as well had they had that DNA evidence d
01:27:52
days or a couple weeks after the murders rather than eight months later they may
01:27:56
have had a different line of questioning when they were talking to all these individuals time is the enemy for a case
01:28:02
when it's fresh when it's new cold cases time is a detective's friend and that is
01:28:09
because people change Lifestyles change living situations change people may not be afraid of
01:28:17
somebody today that they were afraid of in 2011 or 201 12 right and one thing that has changed significantly in this
01:28:26
case a very violent dangerous individual Samuel Williams is locked up for good they threw away the damn key he ain't
01:28:34
getting out so if he was stopping or his presence or the fear of Sam Williams was
01:28:40
stopping you or preventing you from talking before you don't have to worry about him
01:28:45
no more you can go to the police and you can tell them look this is why I didn't
01:28:51
come forward because because I was afraid for my life nobody's going to blame you for that
01:28:55
now so if anybody out there has information please come forward please tell us what you know please call
01:29:01
Crimestoppers at 49255 1111 or you can call the detectives Bureau at 419 21349 one7 or if you don't want to talk
01:29:14
to law enforcement you can reach out to True Crime garage our contact information is on our website you can
01:29:19
also reach out to a person that was very valuable in helping us put together this
01:29:23
case his name is Brian Dugger he's somebody that true crime garage worked with on the Nancy eagleson case he's a
01:29:29
brilliant investigative reporter for WTO and you can reach Brian at B Dugger duger at
01:29:40
wt.com [Music] want to thank you so much for joining us here in the garage each and every week
01:29:54
and thanks for sharing our show on social media do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners this
01:30:02
week Captain we are recommending it came from Ohio by James rener a little Halloween action for you if you will
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good for Halloween so turn on the NightLight lock your door and close the window blinds join investigative
01:30:16
reporter James rener as he looks into 13 Tales of mysterious creepy and unex explained events all from the Buckeye
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state including the giant lovelin frog the bloodthirsty Melon Heads of Kirtland and the Werewolf of defiance don't
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forget about the Moth Man of the Ohio River and the UFO that inspired Close Encounters of the Third Kind and many
01:30:40
more check out it came from Ohio you'll find that great title and many more on our recommended page at true Crim
01:30:47
garage.com and until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music] is it possible to predict the
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