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[Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who just like myself continues to put topshelf liquor
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into a bottom shelf body here is the captain yeah get you some it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for
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listening thank thanks for Tona [Music] friend today we are very happy to still be sipping on some Bourbon County brand
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Bananas Foster from Goose Island beer company this baby is packed with beautiful flavor ripe bananas toasted
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almond brown sugar and cinnamon make this stout one to remember garage grade 5 out of five bottle caps and a quick
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shout out before we get back into our Deli discussion I have a shout out to Shane
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kendine all the way over in CLA Castle Ireland and I also want to give a shout out to our friends down in Orlando who
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operate one of the very best breweries in the United States a shout out to Doug Chris and Shani and everyone working the
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brewery and behind the bar at tactical Brewing Company tactical was very nice and generous to make an impactful
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donation to the porch light project a a nonprofit organization helping families and law enforcement with assistance in
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Ohio cold cases for more information on delicious beer go to Tactical beer.com and for more information on how you can
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help and get involved go to porchlight online.org yeah BW R in beerun make sure you check out true Crim
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garage.com join our mailing list so you're in the no and Colonel that's enough of the business all right every
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everybody gather around grab a chair grabb a beer let's talk some true crime Richard Allen is charged with
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killing Abby Williams and Libby German Alan confessed to murdering the girls to his wife while talking to her
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on the phone from prison from prison Alan confessed from prison well and that's that's a great way to bring
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up the next topic which is the the crime scene photo leak leaks so all of that goes down late September
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what we just discussed and then it would have been early to mid October right that the photos get leaked out we're all
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comfortable discussing this I I believe that unfortunately fig you were one of the persons that
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received some of this information is that correct yeah yeah so it was it was early October received crime seen photos
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and it's probably all of us we get stuff sent to us and you open things I didn't
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recognize the email but I've seen pictures and they're just all fake or didn't look like it but as soon as I
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opened this email up and it was 5:45 a.m. I was woke up check my emails for work before I get ready head to the
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office right when I saw them I knew these were real and I immediately forwarded to Nick McLean and said hey
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these were sent to me this is where they were sent I just just first thing emailed him and then he gave me Specific
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Instructions got right back to me here's here's what I want to do um we're trying
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to track down the source and for anyone who who wants to say anything about Nick
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mcland I'll tell you from my interaction with him he cares about the family he's
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I live in a different time zone that guy is responding to things and and I think
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the crime scene photos really hurt the defense and maybe maybe a lesser man would have said yeah let them go out
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there because people are going to see him and they're going to hate Richard Allen even more and it is going to
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persuade them to maybe convict him if they're on the jury but he was no he did not want those things out and and again
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another reason why they maybe the prosecutor might have wanted them if he was a lesser man to get out is because
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it disproves this odinist Theory so once I received them I I sent them to Nick McLean I followed his instructions and
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then you know it's still upsetting you know about about what this what this was and then you get online you know I don't
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say anything you get online you see all these people claiming this odinist stuff
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and there's horns left there and and I knew different so I was like what do I do here um so I called Brett from the
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prosecutors he was kind enough to call and just kind of give me some advice I'm like could I like talk about some of
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these things because I just it doesn't sit right with me that these rumors are going out there and they're not and
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people seem to be believing it and I wouldn't challenge that so he he gave me some advice I was still I I think I
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called you guys and it's fun all all three of you guys kind of said the same thing and I know you didn't think I
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would do this but you're like do not send me the photos Brett said I'm like no no I mean it wasn't even coming up
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but it was just right away you guys just put in this uh preemptive like just don't say I'm like no no I'm like I
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deleted them I'm not going you're okay good I just I don't want to see those all three of you said that that um Brett
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was like no I've seen way too many of that so like just please I'm like I don't I don't have them I deleted them
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fall instructions so was good but I just thought that was speaking of know integrity and just the difference
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between these some of these social media people were're talking about earlier versus YouTube and Brett where it's like
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do not show me I don't want any of that just stting that up front so but I do I I thank Brett and I thank you guys for
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just kind of giving me uh opportunity to kind of talk and and almost like de-stress about them a little bit
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because you guys covered way more cases than me um and gave me some good advice and kind of let me talk talk to you guys
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on the phone a little bit and and you know you're exactly right like it was that was the three of us that you know
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independently that was our knee-jerk reaction don't whatever happens don't send us the photos you know where my
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mind and my heart were at it I simply want just for Libby and Abby and me my eyeballs seeing those
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photographs does not do anything to work towards that goal of getting Justice for
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it it it does nothing for the case for for getting Justice for Libby and Abby and so one I I knew I didn't need to see
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them the other the other kind of funny thing about this is when all of this stuff is taking place you know I'm
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getting a couple texts from you and I said oh by the way funny we're chatting now I happen to be in
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Indiana and so you said you text me and you said hey not sending you anything but I you know just want to if
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you have time I'd like to talk real quick I'm at I'm actually at a three-day CSI training event with law enforcement
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with a member with with sitting in a room with 40 members of Indiana Law Enforcement the only civilian in the
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room and look outside of a couple cases that we've worked together I don't know you that well fig I thought holy [ __ ] I
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got to get out of this room before before my phone rings uh because I don't know what kind of conversation will
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ensue after I pick up very quickly I run out to the uh parking garage of this police department and I think you ran
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outside as well uh wherever you were at the time and we both had a quick chuckle
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about that our quick conversation was a confirmation of no no odinism no ritualistic stuff seen at the crime
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scene uh from from what you saw um that it it dispelled those rumors and I was happy to hear that from you uh put a
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little smile on my face and I was I was able to go on about my day it to me also
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it confirmed something a discussion that Becky Patty and I had at crimecon and I
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want to be very very clear about the very brief discussion that we had I saw her walk into podcast row I left my
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booth and I approached her and I cannot say if she remembers who I am or not um we we had spoke prior at one of the
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previous crime cons briefly with Becky and with Mike Patty but it's very possible that she
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remembers you because you're very very strikingly handsome you use the exact words I was going to use yeah strikingly
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handsome some would say yeah stunningly handsome stunningly handsome uh and also
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classically handsome but um beyond that none of maybe none of that's true by by any stretch of the imagination but
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anyway I said to her right away and I started talking about the information that was coming out this odinism crap
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and I saw a look of concern on her face and and that look remained until I said Becky I got to tell you I I'm no expert
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but I feel this is really good for the case and it's good good for what we all want because it's all [ __ ] and then
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the look of concern changed to a smile and I oh I loved seeing that smile on Becky's face and she and I said to me it
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shows how desperate the defense is and that that it shows their hand that they have nothing because every everyone will
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read the headlines very few will read the 136 pages and in those 136 Pages it tells you it tells you
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with this this theory is a house of cards at best and so I told her I said I I hope
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that that this case doesn't get delayed any further I hope that the court proceedings don't get delayed any
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further and this is what kind of good people we are talking about the victim's families are they've been through the
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worst tragedy one could ever imagine ever and she looks at me and she says you she goes not only is that [ __ ]
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she says the biggest [ __ ] part is that there's been an arrest made and we can't even talk about the case and what
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I mean to to highlight her character there's been a gag order placed on certain people in this case that they
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cannot discuss it and while she has gone through one of the worst tragedies anyone could ever fathom and while it
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took 5 and 1/2 years to get an arrest in her granddaughter's Murder She is of the
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character that she will honor even though she believes it to be [ __ ] and maybe even in in a weird
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way cruel she will honor that gag order that's what kind of good people we are talking about it makes a lot of sense
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because I've never spoken to her before and then after I I put out a YouTube video and she must have just watched it
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but she sent me a message and it was kind of me trying to pick apart kind of the this 136 page memorandum where she
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just it it was short and sweet but you know it meant a lot and she just said that I was a breath of fresh air and so
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I think just because of all the rumors and stuff that that she hears going around she just was glad that someone
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was inserting some logic into the to the case and it meant a lot cuz I I never spoke to her and um just that she reach
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outed it made a lot of the the work that we do that is you know it's it's stressful
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sometimes it's emotionally draining but just hearing that someone appreciated something that I did someone from the
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family because I was putting myself in their shoes and just like how would I feel this was a f family member and then
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you hear about all these crazy things that happen to a loved one and yeah it just seems like a line people are
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believing it like someone had to say something and that's why I'm glad to be on your guys' show and we're we're
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discussing the case because they don't have a voice right now like you pointed out Nick and someone needs to be the
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voice of logic and I hopefully we're we're doing a decent job of that and I think people forget
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and we've covered so many cases but to actually meet the family members of victims let's just take this case for
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example they're a victim the family is a victim every day that somebody isn't arrested and they
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went years and years and every time there's a press conference they're they're victims all over
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again every time there's a a change in Direction by law enforcement they're victims all over
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again then there's an arrest made so they get this small victory but then all these other steps after that they become
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victims all over again and and that's what the defense team and I I believe this defense
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team has the idea and this is just my gut feeling is we're going to take this case because uh uh there's
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National popularity we're going to take this case because we're local we're going to muck it up we're going to
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throw everything at the wall and see what sticks and our end goal is to write a book try to get a movie made or some
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documentary made and and that's how we're going to profit off this and that's that's my
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personal gut feeling about the defense team it it sure seemed that way reading the transcripts from the October 19th
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powwow where it was the judge talking to the defense attorneys that came out it just seemed
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like the defense lawyers they really cared about themselves more than their client and it in that conversation it
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seemed like the only person who was really concerned about Rick Allen's Rights was the judge judge go so I get
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what you're saying there they made it very much about themselves and seemed like they enjoyed the spotlight and and
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just wanted to yeah maybe write a book or do something afterwards but it didn't seem like their heart was into the case
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well and I think some of that look I I will defend the defense here briefly you know because I've said on
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record multiple times with with OJ's defense with Jose bayz from uh Casey Anthony if I am sitting in the defendant
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chair that's what I want my defense team to do to to question everything um and unfortunately in both
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of those scenarios it the result was was successful I hope and pray that it's not
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in this situation so I I'll defend him in that regard now where I where I will go and agree with you guys 100% I think
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some of the evidence to back up your suspicions is the photo the photograph of Richard Allen that come came out with
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him in jail and it looks like he's got he's spit up on his shirt and he's sitting in a very odd weird looking
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Manner and he's kind of he got the crazy eyes I do not believe for one second that is the only photograph they took of
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that man that day they I think they took dozens of photographs and thought you know what what's the one where he looks
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the where the what where's the one that's going to send off the bells right we where is
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the photograph that people are going to go holy crap what the heck is going on there again it's not just it's not just
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our guy is innocent it's our guys now a victim and here's the other thing when we talk about the defense team
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collecting alternate theories and going to YouTube and going to websites and going to podcast and trying to find
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those I hope and pray that they spent the 20 hours that true crime garage released on these this case and and and
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went after the 20 hours looked at each other and went well that was a waste of a few days because on our show the the
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things that we kept circling around from day one was that this is a sexually motivated crime uh the the arrest of
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Richard Allen and the crime scene photographs and everything else that's come out since then would say that that
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is factually true uh that it was someone with a great knowledge of the deli area
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that probably lived in Deli uh with the arrest of Richard Allen if in fact he is
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the one that killed those two girls then that is true and that the the suspect probably lives close to the mo and high
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bridge the arrest of Richard and if in fact he killed those two girls would also prove that one to be true so we
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didn't give them any ammunition on our show everything we were we were saying from Jump Street really pointed to
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Someone Like Richard Allen now did it Point did it point to hundreds of other people as well yes of course uh we
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didn't know his name until he was arrested but Captain go ahead I'm sorry well the one thing that we pointed out
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also and and it wasn't our Theory but we liked the the theory of that there was a
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eyewitness that law enforcement probably had some communication with that they were identifying as eyewitness and not
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as a suspect and I still think that theory with the arrest of Richard Allen holds true exactly right Richard Allen
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at one point may have been in the witness potential witness category and then eventually found himself in the
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suspect category and we also said that there was probably an the attempt of an abduction
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and simply moving the girls off of that bridge off that trail taking to them to where they were found that is the
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definition of an abduction and then circling back to some of the odinism things and and things found at the
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murder scene or witness statements If This truly was something that was committed by some type of cult or you
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know some kind of ritualistic murders that does not gel with the witness statements that were
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there on the trails that day the witness statements were that they seen a a disheveled man a mudded man a potential
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bloodied man someone who looked at like they had been in a fight a single individual rather than all of this
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ritualistic nonsense that here we are having to spin our tires the the next item is that we end
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up November 22nd 2023 three Indiana State Police they arrest Mitchell Mitchell Westerman age 41 in relation to
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this evidence leak that came out and unfortunately too there was another individual that that took his life
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Westerman he at one time worked for Andrew Baldwin's office so he's a former employee and it seemed like they still
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stayed in pretty good contact with each other and the claim was that he went and
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early summer and he went into the office because Baldwin was using him to possibly pick holes in the defense
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strategy that they were coming up with but I know it happened more than just this one time being that I was getting
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fed some some stuff that ended up being true that was coming from the defense side of things but so he allegedly took
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some pictures uh that were there in a room that should have been locked and that and these uh photos of the crime
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scene should have been kept away and in a locked cabinet as well so the story they put out is that he took a few of
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those pictures then um don't know if people know this but Robert forston his family calls him Kyle they um Mitch is
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they were best friends they were extremely good friends that he sent them to to Robert and the reason is kind of
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unknown like I was I I knew Robert forson the gentleman who who took his life uh through readit and some of his
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YouTube comments that he made on my channel a very smart guy he was into True Crime he was interested in the
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story and he probably just you know talking to his best friend that guy Mitch shared some pictures with him and
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then I know that Robert Fortson he would he would post things on on Reddit and not trying to give too much but I mean
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it goes back to the social media I mean he was kind of getting bullied for things that he was saying uh they're
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like you know you don't know what you're talking about you're wrong and I think he kind of just had enough where he's
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like no this is look I'm telling the truth this is this is what happened so he started being more blunt about things
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and then they kind of him and this this other person that he sent it to to kind of prove some things to um posted a tree
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a picture of a tree that looks like a could be an F but when you kind of look at it in different lights it it looks
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more like either someone wiped their hand like a gloved hand or a splatter it doesn't look like a f a tree with a tree
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with something on it a blood right uh on it and some were saying it might be an F
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other people just saying it's a smear it was left to open to interpretation right
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right and why the f is important is because the defense try to call it a Odin Rune and they actually use the
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wrong F in the 136 page memorandum the F the it would have been facing the other
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way for the one that they us used I forgot the name of it but I I looked it up so yeah they they called it the wrong
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type of f so that's that's what they they were using um and that's what got put out was first that photo so that was
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kind of the first leak was talking about the odinism stuff the second leak was this F tree and then the third leak was
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the crime scene photos themselves and that is what Westerman said he took pictures of he sent it to his friend
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Robert forson who sent it to another person and then now the chain now just it spreads out I mean you send it to a
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few people it things get out there and um someone decided to uh take the picture once they received it and come
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up with some fictitious emails and phone numbers and just send it out to a bunch
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of people and their reason was they claimed that well they didn't want people to make money off of it and I
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don't know they thought it it should be out there which is just disturbing um so yeah that's kind
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of how how that all went down and I don't want to go too far down this road because I think it's disrespectful but
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to include the audience in this conversation and some information that you really didn't want to
00:24:11
have uh fig I'll give a brief description of one of the of a photograph that I did not see but my
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understanding of that photograph and I want you to correct me if I'm wrong but the the one of the more talked about
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photographs as far as as the crime Scene goes would depict the two victims lying near one another probably feet
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apart and both slightly covered with sticks or branches one one victim in a state of undress one victim appears to
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be mostly dressed is that correct yeah okay and so and here's the thing too like
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unfortunately well it's both fortunate and unfortunate fortunately True Crime garage has been around a long time
00:25:03
unfortunately during that long time that the garage has been around we've reviewed a lot of descriptions and
00:25:10
photographs of different murder scenes and I am here to tell you that in my experience and and and and look I get it
00:25:21
I'm just a I'm just a podcaster at the end of the day but also at the end of the day I've probably red viewed more
00:25:28
crime scenes or murder scenes than your local cop or local detective just given the nature of our show and that we've
00:25:36
covered so many cases and we're not limited to one jurisdiction I am here to tell you in
00:25:41
almost every outdoor murder scene that I have seen or read a description of the victim is almost always covered with
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some form of debris leaves sticks what have you it's all there's always some lame attempt by the perpetrator to
00:25:59
conceal the body before fleeing the scene and so I think a lot of people are making a
00:26:07
mountain out of a mole hill here with with the this idea of the sticks or how how the victims were found right and a a
00:26:16
point to be made about these photos there's probably a thousand maybe 2,000 crime scene photos taken this is one
00:26:23
photo a snapshot I know there's a few that got released but they're right after each other so say one photo one
00:26:30
snapshot in time and if you look at a timeline through the day we don't know what else was there really we don't know
00:26:38
if if there were extra leaves on that got removed I mean they it seemed like the pictures were hand selected they
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chose these for a reason to maybe get them out there or to show a friend to to even try and prove a point to their
00:26:52
friend like look I told you it's it's odinis so they took the the picture that might looked the most like Odin was
00:26:59
involved even though it wasn't I mean things would look a lot different if those branches were there and then they
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had leaves on top of them would you you wouldn't question you wouldn't even think about odinism you just think like
00:27:09
you said oh they're just trying to conceal it but since there were no leaves on top yeah they maybe it looked
00:27:15
a little like it was stag a certain way so we don't know enough even even seeing
00:27:21
a picture just one picture out of the thousands it gives us a little information but it doesn't tell the
00:27:26
whole story we should also note that Richard Allen was moved from the Westerville
00:28:01
Correctional Facility to the W bash Valley Correctional Facility on December 6 there are some people that are reading
00:28:09
into that I don't I'm not going to sit here and pretend to fully understand why he was moved or when or why he was moved
00:28:16
when he was moved but I will say this from my understanding is the Westerville Correctional Facility one it it was
00:28:26
requested by his defense at one point that he that he would be moved that they hop that he would be moved and
00:28:34
two I it it appears that the Westerville Correctional Facility is getting ready to or or is in the early stages of a a
00:28:44
complete rehaul they're revamping the whole uh facility from my understanding and this is a big undertaking that will
00:28:52
require likely require the movement of not just this particular inmate but many others yeah yeah so and we don't know
00:29:01
the actual reason there's that which seems the most logical there's also safety concerns and we brought this up
00:29:10
earlier about given the guards who will threaten child Killers or people uh who were just even uh accused child Killers
00:29:19
well we have to remember he did admit five or six times that he killed the girls and so I think that's when things
00:29:25
might have got kicked up a notch when other people here other prisoners maybe heard that and start threatening him
00:29:32
more like oh this guy he admitted to it like this guy saying that he did it so it could have made things even more
00:29:38
dangerous for him where they're moving him for a safety we don't know I'm just assuming then we have this case that is
00:29:46
you know it's gone on for far too long as As I described in my conversation with
00:29:53
brief conversation with Becky but now we have the Richard Allen Court proceedings
00:29:58
that are just filled with so many different twist and turns so and this is very convoluted and I I think I have a
00:30:08
decent understanding of this but I think we should talk through it because this is this is a huge deal in this case uh
00:30:15
this might be the biggest thing that's come out forget odinism forget the leaked crime scene evidence this photos
00:30:23
this this is the biggest thing in the case as far as I'm concerned since the arrest of Richard Allen okay so we have
00:30:30
to start down this long Winding Road here so Richard Allen's defense team you could word word this a few different
00:30:37
ways they get fired from the case they withdraw from the case so just before the October 19th Hearing in Allen County
00:30:46
Judge Francis Gul announced that the defense team members Andrew Baldwin and Bradley Rousy had withdrawn from the
00:30:54
case thus leading to another announcement that the trial date so originally we we were thinking
00:31:00
anticipating this thing would go to some kind of trial January of 2024 so the judge then announces that
00:31:08
that's going to be highly unlikely seeing how the defense team just got either withdrawn or thrown out Weeks
00:31:15
Later a jury trial date for the double homicide case was then scheduled for October 15th to November 1st of 2024 so
00:31:25
now we have a courta appointed Council for Richard Allen this is Robert scran and William Le from my understanding
00:31:33
attorneys Baldwin and Rosy they withdrew after special judge Francis Gul cited quote gross negligence by the attorneys
00:31:41
in the representation of Allen so Richard Allen's attorneys later say that they did not voluntarily withdraw from
00:31:49
the case that they felt that they were being forced out like that I I believe what they were either hinting at or
00:31:57
outwardly just announcing was that in Chambers they were it was a bit of a come to Jesus talk with with the judge
00:32:09
and it sounds like they are claiming that the judge threatened to publicly uh discredit them and and to
00:32:20
discredit them as as dis uh defense attorneys and and for their gross negligence in this job and they felt
00:32:28
that that no they had no other means other than to withdraw to save some face here does that sound about right yeah
00:32:36
that sounds what happened and maybe it was a mistake that she allowed them to save face because now we have the
00:32:42
Supreme Court case but yeah during that little powwow and hearings that they had
00:32:48
she basically showed them the statement that she was prepared to read they they knew what they were there for and they
00:32:54
did withdraw they weren't happy about it well Rosie wasn't didn't seem very happy
00:32:58
about it but he's like fine I will because I feel like you're forcing me to but they technically did both
00:33:05
withdraw um and then it's back to the captain statements about they I think they want to be in the Limelight
00:33:11
involved so they're gonna they're gonna do something to to make this thing prolong and still stay in the spotlight
00:33:17
but yeah so judge go basically uh let them withdraw and yeah and here here we go so this will be a huge deal because
00:33:28
in on January 18th at 11:00 a.m. we will have these what's been described as oral
00:33:37
arguments correct and this will be a chance for the Indiana Supreme Court to decide on a couple of different
00:33:46
things one should these two attorneys still be allowed to represent Richard Allen and two should special judge
00:33:57
appointed judge Francis Gul be allowed to oversee the trial that's my understanding of it I I'm not great I'm
00:34:04
really great fig on when it comes to these investigations and finding the bad guy not so good about the court stuff
00:34:13
from what I gather here is that they actually have the ability to they don't have to rule one way or the other they
00:34:21
they could rule to leave Francis Gaul as the judge they could rule to leave these
00:34:27
two attorneys as representatives of Richard Allen or they could keep one and not the other or they could toss both
00:34:34
out for my understanding yeah and and luckily you guys introduced me to to Brett because I'm the same way this is
00:34:40
not my background so I'll I'll text him ran questions like hey could you explain
00:34:44
this and he's he's great about explaining it in simple terms so that I understand it but yeah the January 18th
00:34:51
uh Court the oral arguments it is those two things like you stated reinstate the
00:34:55
previous defense see if they're going to bring back Baldwin and Rosie and then to
00:35:00
see if they're going to remove the judge to see if she's been acting if she was biased towards the the former legal team
00:35:07
for Rick Allen so that's what they're going to decide on and it was recently announced that this will be live
00:35:15
streaming that people will be able to live stream this January 18th 2024 cameras in the courtroom for some people
00:35:23
they love this to witness this kind of stuff for others most of the time and this is part of the
00:35:28
reason why I'm not so up to speed on the court stuff one because every jurisdiction every state is different so
00:35:34
it gets a little convoluted in that manner but two these are oftentimes very long drawn out boring processes I am
00:35:43
incredibly eager to see the rolling that we end up with who's allowed to stay and
00:35:49
why and who's removed and why but this is as I said I believe this is the biggest bit of news in this case January
00:35:58
18th what they decide this January about this case since the arrest of Richard Allen and then we have to see
00:36:07
after the fact does that mean that we're able to keep the same timeline of having
00:36:11
a jury trial either you know sometime late October I'm not very confident in that I think that we're probably going
00:36:19
to end up with a early 2025 trial which is going to add to more messiness on social media but um I don't know I so I
00:36:29
guess my question for you gentlemen are would be are you Pro camera or against the cameras being involved in not just
00:36:39
this trial in the proceedings but others I don't think that they fully determined
00:36:44
that cameras will be involved in the actual jury trial yet I think that will be decided later but Captain we'll start
00:36:50
with you are you Pro Camera in the courtroom or against it um all for it I mean I think it just everybody has has a
00:36:56
right to uh a fair trial I don't know if necessarily I don't know if necessarily
00:37:04
it should be live streamed but I think every every action that we can as far as the the procedures and when somebody
00:37:15
is arrested if we can have the body cam footage during um during a search uh of individual's
00:37:25
house videotape it videotape people when they're in prison videotape every single
00:37:32
courtroom proceeding I don't know if then we at least have that as evidence later I don't know if necessarily every
00:37:43
case should be live streamed though yeah for my personal just kind of interest in
00:37:48
saying I definitely would like to have it live stream so that I could see it I was a little uneasy just looking at some
00:37:56
other cases where it seemed like they made mistakes with the live streaming like they showed the audience things
00:38:02
that they weren't supposed to and it kind of and it it might have pushed back the case even further so I guess my fear
00:38:09
for the case is as long as there's not a a mistrial because of some mistake that
00:38:13
was made through the live streaming but I guess the one thing that's good about it being pushed back and if they are
00:38:19
planning to live stream it then I guess they need to spend this time to make sure they have things dialed in with the
00:38:25
cameras know to pan away how to how to set everything up and and practice it airproof it so that it doesn't prolong
00:38:32
this case anymore so if they if they have it figured out and it won't impact the case and I'm I'm all for it and I
00:38:39
like and I like Captain's thought on maybe it doesn't have to be live so that'll give them some editing just in
00:38:45
case and then yeah by all means show it all and the things that the public shouldn't see then make sure that they
00:38:51
don't see them but yeah I think I think we should see what's what's going on I I
00:38:56
think we're all on the same page with this one here guys and our thoughts and feelings about the cameras and and
00:39:02
here's look I traditionally I believe in for the most part A case-by casee basis
00:39:08
but we've we've regularly discussed here in the garage the complications when you have a case where
00:39:15
you have either a confession or a complete denial when interrogating or questioning a suspect or even potential
00:39:24
Witness by detec or law enforcement when you when you don't have camera footage of those conversations as opposed to
00:39:33
when you do have those where we can look back and go you mentioned context earlier a fig and that's where you go
00:39:42
okay well we we don't know okay here's the words on P paper we've all discussed with our friends and family the
00:39:49
difficulties that texting can create in conversation because there's no there's no face to face there's there's no oh
00:39:57
was he joking I I I hope he was joking because this sounds a little rude or a little out of character but when you
00:40:04
have the camera footage you are able to pick up on a lot of other things in this case I'm all for it 100%
00:40:12
because look how mucked up this case is already from the public I want to be clear from the
00:40:22
public that I think that transparency will be the key in this case and I think often times in
00:40:29
most cases transparency is the key and I'm with you guys I don't know that it necessarily needs to be live streamed I
00:40:35
share Fig's opinion out of my own selfishness that I'm happy that it will be live streamed but I think that in
00:40:43
this case it's necessary and we all know anybody even even we've agreed that we don't have great understanding of of
00:40:51
Court proceedings and and what the way that these things should play out in the courtroom but I think one thing we all
00:41:00
can agree on and everyone in the public should be able to easily agree on is that the court record is of the highest
00:41:09
importance in all of these Court proceedings that's why you have the court reporter there that's why you've
00:41:14
had a court reporter there since before cameras existed somebody to Chronicle and document what is said what evidence
00:41:22
is put forward when how the how the judge uh you know it all gets into the record and you we we see it in these
00:41:30
courtroom dramas strike that from the record it's so important what that record looks like at the end of the day
00:41:37
a camera in the courtroom can only further that court record and and add context to that court record so at the
00:41:48
end of the day what we should be pushing always pushing forward as far as the public is concerned public should
00:41:56
always be pushing forward that it's not about getting a conviction it's about getting the right
00:42:04
conviction and and the more things that we can do to police each step then we'll know for certain that we
00:42:15
got the right conviction yeah well said yeah it's we want we want the truth we want
00:42:22
if the I have nothing against Rick Allen I don't I don't know him I'm not going after Rick Allen because I don't like
00:42:29
him I'm going after whoever killed liby and Abby and it seems that this person who admitted to it that he likely did so
00:42:38
hey if it's not him then I don't want him punished I I don't want anything so yeah transparency is great so we could
00:42:45
understand the full situation and maybe maybe the transparency to your guys' point will help with some of this social
00:42:51
media Madness and once they hear things in context and learn all the facts maybe
00:42:56
they'll just move on to another case or or drop it and just let the families be at at
00:43:02
peace I I think transparency at this point could could only help well and in the case against Rich Allen Rick
00:43:09
Allen we have actual physical scientific evidence that would suggest that he is the perpetrator of this heinous
00:43:25
crime we want to wish everybody a Happy New Year hopefully 2024 is the best year yet
00:43:40
for you and the best year yet for the garage if you're digging what you're listening to make sure you subscribe and
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make sure you tell a friend Colonel do we have any recommended reading for the beautiful listeners we're going to give
00:43:54
you some recommended viewing for for your eyeballs here for more on Deli Richard Allen odinism and even an
00:44:01
interview with a former FBI agent go to YouTube and check out and subscribe to Fig solves that's figs solves at YouTube
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we will also be featuring one of fig solves videos on our website truecrime garage.com and you can also click on our
00:44:17
recommended page and see all of our recommendations there want to thank everybody for the support onward and
00:44:23
upward until next week be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter