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[music] [music] [music] [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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for listening. I'm your host Nick and with me as always wearing the gold chain, backwards bandana, and of course
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the tattoo on his chest that [music] reads frosted mug life. He is the captain. >> I ain't mad at you. It's good to be seen
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and it's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. [music]
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>> Today we are drinking Las Vegas logger with cucumber and lime from Big Dogs Microbrewing in Las Vegas, Nevada.
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Garage grade three and a half bottle caps out of five. Summer is almost here and it's warming up outside and this is
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the perfect beer for the hot summer months. Las Vegas logger is incredibly refreshing and it was brought to us by
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some of our very >> good friends. >> You mean [music] our homies? >> Homie. >> Big cheers mates go out to Kate in New
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South Wales and Michelle in Victoria in the land down under. Cheers mates. >> Next up a shoutout to Jerry in London
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and of course much love from Nick and the captain to everybody in our brother country of England. Stay tough over
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there. >> And we have a birthday shoutout from Farah to Marty in Pflugerville, Texas.
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>> And a birthday shout from Melissa to her True Crime Garage addict husband, Jason.
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Happy birthday, Jason. >> All right, thank you Al Roker. What's the 20 on the traffic?
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>> And last but not least, we have to say thank you to Stephanie in the DC area.
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>> Stephanie, [music] we like your jib. >> Before we are done with the business though, I have to mention that
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unfortunately we can no longer do the birthday shout-outs. [music] >> Mhm. >> Uh we apologize, but we are getting a
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ton of them and when we're listening back to the show, we're starting to sound like a morning zoo show
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>> [music] >> and I feel like Al Roker. >> He sounds >> So that's got to stop. >> We sound douchier than we sounded
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before. >> So we'll we'll do them today and we'll do them tomorrow, but after that we have
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to stop before the show becomes known as happy birthday garage. >> Yeah, cuz we're here for beers and blood
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and we don't give a [ __ ] about birthdays. >> Well, since you put it that way, Captain. If you want to donate to the
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show and buy a round for the two ungrateful guys in the garage, go to truecrimegarage.com
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and click on the donate button. >> And for everything truecrimegarage, check out the website
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truecrimegarage.com. Also, check out the store page there. We have a couple t-shirts for sale. They'll
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probably be sold out this week, so you want to get them now. >> All right, that's enough of the
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business. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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>> [music] >> The press and the media make you think that a black man arming himself is
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illegal or criminal or that he wants to arm himself to rob a liquor store or something. You know what I'm saying?
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That is for me to defend myself and it should always be. It's just about surviving, you know, and we have to be
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honest about the tools that we use to survive. And why is a black life um any any more
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recoupable than a white life. You know what I'm saying? We know that they don't put the same security in the ghetto that
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they do in the white and and the white neighborhoods. [music] So, therefore, for me to be out here saying, "Don't,
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you know, put your guns down and no violence." That's hypocritical. And if I didn't talk about the violence,
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everybody would act like the violence wasn't there. We as rappers brought that violence we we brought the violence that
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we seen on the street we put in our records put in our records for years. And after 3 4 years people finally
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starting to see it because all the statistics that's going on in the streets. If we stop talking about it,
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then they wouldn't take statistics. And when they stop taking statistics, then we'd be killing each other in the street
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and these white people wouldn't care no more. All the people they only reason they care is cuz, you know, there's been
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some strays and then we just slipped over in the white neighborhoods and there's kids in Iowa that want to be
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like us. You know what I'm saying? There's kids in and Indiana that's trying to be like us cuz they can relate
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to. You know what I'm saying? You even admitted, "I don't live in that neighborhood anymore." There's no real
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[music] reason for you to carry a 9 mm. Don't believe that. Why? In the In 2 years I've had a gun pulled
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on me by my limo driver, by police, by everybody. You know what I'm saying? And I better be I better be. You know what
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I'm saying? I've been attacked. You ain't read the papers about these skinheads trying to blow up black
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churches. Why? They see me as the enemy just like y'all do. You know what I'm saying? They can
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come to my house and sit outside my house just like anybody else can. A skinhead. And once my life [music] is
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gone, it's gone. Can't nobody give it back to me. Not the judge, not the president, not the governor, not Calvin
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Butts, not Jesse [music] Jackson. They can't do nothing but come to my funeral and talk pretty about how black people
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suffer. And once my life is gone, it's gone. >> [music] >> September 13th, 1996 a crowd of people
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gathered outside the University Medical Center in Las Vegas, Nevada because of Tupac Shakur.
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A rapper almost as famous for his police record as he was for his music. Inside the hospital Tupac was fighting for his
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life. Six days earlier he had been shot while riding in a car with his record labels owner.
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At a stoplight a car pulled up next to the car that Tupac was in and opened fire.
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>> Mhm. >> Tupac was shot four times. And we got to go back and talk about the life of Tupac leading up to the event
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here, Captain. So, Tupac was born June 16th, 1971 in East Harlem in a section of New York
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City. >> Mhm. >> His mother, Afeni, was an active member of the Black Panther Party
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in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Now, I'll just refer to him as Tupac or Pac, you know, because we have different name
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changes and I don't want things to get confusing. So, Pac's mother, Afeni, along with 20
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other members of the Black Panthers, they were arrested in 1969. They called this group the New York 21.
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The police said that the group had planned to blow up several places in New York. It sounds like all of the New York
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21 made bail, but while they were out two of the members ran and fled. Well, when this happened authorities began
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rounding up the remaining members and Afeni found herself in New York Women's House for Detention.
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>> And at this time she's currently pregnant with Tupac Shakur. >> Yeah, she had to get a court order this
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allowing her extra food for the pregnancy, but really all it was in addition to what everyone else was
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eating was the addition of an egg and a glass of milk each morning. Afeni said that she had never been able
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to carry a child past three months of pregnancy, but in the midst of all this, this child stayed. Now, this could be
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the first indication that this baby wasn't going to be just your average kid. Afeni, from everything I could tell, was
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a very smart lady. Um she did not have any education as far as a law background goes, but she did serve as her own
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lawyer. In May of 1971, Afeni and 13 other members were cleared of all charges. So, Tupac was born a
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month after she was acquitted. She was cleared of more than 150 charges of conspiracy against the United States
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government and New York landmarks in the state of New York. >> Well, let's be clear, especially in New
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York City, the Black Panther Party was known for feeding the Black Community and uh school children. So, just because
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there was possibly these terrorist threats, doesn't mean that she had any involvement. And like you said, she was
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acquitted of all charges. >> Tupac said that his mother didn't hide the truth from him, saying she didn't
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know who his father was. Tupac would later accept Billy Garland as his father. This was a man that his mother
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had a previous relationship with. In the mid '70s, Afeni became involved with Mutulu Shakur. And even though the
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couple didn't marry, Mutulu considered himself Tupac's stepfather. Mutulu and Afeni did have a daughter
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together. Now, Tupac's stepfather, he ends up he spends 4 years at large on the FBI's 10 Most Wanted Fugitives list,
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beginning in 1982. >> Mhm. >> He was wanted for helping his sister escape from a penitentiary in New Jersey
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in 1979. She had been in prison since 1977 for killing a state trooper. She was a
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fugitive for several years before gaining asylum in Cuba in 1985. Now, in 1986, Mutulu was caught, tried,
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and convicted for the robbery of a Brink's armored truck in which two police officers and a guard were killed.
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Sometime in the early '80s, Tupac's mother tried crack cocaine and she did have some drug troubles from time to
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time and we'll see this again later throughout his life. So, I think we can say growing up was not easy for Tupac.
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There of course were many hurdles for this young man. >> And he's going to get into the arts
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pretty early in his life. >> Yeah, in 1983 at the age of 12, Pac's mother signed him up for a theater group
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in Harlem. He was cast as Travis Younger, uh the character in the play A Raisin in the Sun, which was performed
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at the Apollo Theater. So, this is this is a big deal. Uh in 1985 >> Right, I think he uh
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performed when Jesse Jackson was running for president. >> Now, in 1985, the family ended up moving
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to Baltimore, Maryland. It was there that Tupac enrolled in the Baltimore School for the Arts, uh where he
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basically studied everything. I mean, acting, poetry, music, you name it. Uh I believe this is where he developed a
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close friendship with Jada Pinkett, uh later Jada Pinkett Smith. I know that he was long-time friends
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with Jada and that was no surprise to me when we started looking at this case and
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who Tupac is or was and I knew that he had a tough time growing up, but I really didn't know how schooled and
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educated he was in the arts from such a young age. I found that incredibly surprising.
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Um I found a quote that that is it's a bit of a sad one, but I think it would it helped me understand some of his
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drive. Uh Tupac said, "I didn't like my life, but through acting I could become somebody else." So, I think that tells
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you a lot of what's going on in his world and what got him to focus on these these more positive aspects.
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>> In 1988, Tupac's mother's still battling her addiction with crack cocaine and
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she's actually in a abusive relationship. So, she's going to send her son and her daughter off to live
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with their godmother in California. >> Tupac would point to this moment as quote as the point where I got off
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track. Uh later Afeni would follow the kids to California. It sounds to me like the godmother had her own
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uh battles with going on. She She had some alcoholism, I think, that was going on. There It was not a perfect situation
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to send your kids to. >> Well, and what Tupac had stated in multiple interviews was, "Oh, yeah. So,
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my mom had all these issues. Then she sends us to California. Oh, by the way, my godmother had all the same issues."
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You know, abusive relationship, addicted to drugs. >> Tupac would eventually drop out of
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school, uh but he did have a chance meeting in a park with Leila Steinberg, a young writer, teacher, and music
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producer. Uh it's through this connection that Pac gets to try out for a group called the
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Digital Underground, uh who was a fantastic rap group. Everybody probably remembers the hit the Humpty Dance. I
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once got busy in a Burger King bathroom. Thank you, Captain. I was a fan of the Digital Underground. And if you YouTube
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same song by Digital Underground, >> you'll actually see Tupac in that video. >> Well, after this, this must be like
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1991. So, Tupac is in his first movie. This is hilarious because I loved this movie. This is Digital Underground
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Underground and Pac, of course. This was the movie Nothing but Trouble. The group In the movie, the group is
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pulled over for speeding and they have to appear before a judge. The judge is Dan Aykroyd. And when in court, they
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performed their song titled Same Song with the judge joining in eventually on keyboards.
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Um this movie had Chevy Chase, Demi Moore, and the late great John Candy in it. Uh so, after this, Tupac broke out
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on his own. He's now like he's now 20 and in late 1991 >> Yeah, the the the record that he's going
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to come out with is 2Pacalypse Now. >> Yeah, and around this same time, he's going to get cast in a much bigger role
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in what, according to critics, is probably considered a much better movie. Not not me, because I love Nothing but
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Trouble. But he is cast in a better movie as the or as as the captain would say, the film, a film called Juice. Uh,
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so that's kind of a good review of Tupac's early life and his break into fame. But Pac was not just famous for
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his music and acting. Um, once he started getting famous, he had run-ins with the law and he also had
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an attempt on his life. Now, the first story that I could recall with Tupac and the police, well, this is
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a nasty one. In the fall >> Well, it's first one once he's famous. >> Mhm. The first In the fall of 1991,
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uh, police stopped him in downtown Oakland, California. Now, he's stopped for jaywalking. This shouldn't probably
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shouldn't be a very big deal, right? >> Probably shouldn't stop him. >> But but the story I heard is that Pac
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showed three forms of ID to the two officers that had stopped him. >> Mhm. >> But the officers refused to believe that
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Tupac Shakur was his real name. Pac ends up losing his temper and he wants to know why it took two officers
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to stop him for something as simple as jaywalking. >> Mhm. >> Um, and then shortly after there's a
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verbal altercation, to put it nicely. Um, the officers then grabbed him and one puts him in a chokehold. He's taken
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down to the concrete. Pac says that when he woke up from the attack, he was cuffed and he was face down in the
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street. He was He was only in jail for about 7 hours for this whole thing that went down.
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Uh but in December 1991, Tupac filed a $10 million civil lawsuit against the Oakland Police Department.
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>> you're missing a little bit of the story. So, once they arrest him on the street and there was a physical
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altercation in the street and uh let's just say Tupac probably provoked some of that, right? So, I'm
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not going to let him off the hook that easy. But once they got him into the jail,
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they beat the living crap out of him. And he had a black eye, he had a bunch of bruises all over his face, and that's
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why he pressed charges. >> Yeah, and I think he they were they were pretty brutal to him before that though,
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bringing him into the jail where people on the street could see that portion of it go down. So, he files that $10
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million lawsuit against the Oakland Police Department, um allegedly saying that they brutally
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beat him for jaywalking. Uh Shakur received approximately $42,000 I believe in in settlement money,
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um but most of this uh went to pay for his lawyer in this situation. >> Yeah, they basically admitted that
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they're wrong and that there was no charges either. So, it's kind of like, you know, nobody wins, nobody loses
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there. >> On August 22nd, 1992 in Marin City, uh Shakur performed at an outdoor festival.
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And he stayed for an hour afterwards signing autographs and pictures. A confrontation occurred and Tupac pulled
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out a legally registered gun and dropped it. Someone picked up the gun and it goes off and a bullet was discharged.
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Well, about 100 yards away, a 6-year-old boy on a bicycle at a nearby playground,
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he's hit with the bullet. Uh it struck him in the forehead and it killed him. Although Tupac and his stepbrother
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Maurice Harding were arrested on suspicion of firing the gun, no charges ended up being filed. Uh the county
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prosecutor basically had basically pretty much had no case because of lack of witnesses.
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>> Mhm. >> Uh but later a wrongful death lawsuit was brought against Tupac and his label
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Interscope uh by the kid's mother. So, under a confidential settlement, and this is the wording from a newspaper
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article at the time, a record company for rap star Tupac Shakur has agreed to pay between $300,000 and $500,000 to the
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parents of a 6-year-old boy who was killed by a stray bullet during a scuffle at an outdoor festival in Marin
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City in 1992. Now, attorneys for Tupac and for the parents of the boy, they reached the settlement and in the
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lawsuit brought by the dead child's family after several hours of closed-door negotiations
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before, you know, before [snorts] any witnesses to the shooting could take the stand.
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>> Right. >> The lawyers would not publicly discuss details of this agreement. However,
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sources familiar with the agreement said a record firm, whose name they would not
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disclose, but we already know is Interscope, will play the will pay the parents more than $300,000 but less than
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$500,000 to settle the suit. They would not be more specific about the the amount. In
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their opening remarks, lawyers for both sides agreed that the bullet that hit the boy came from a handgun that was
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registered to Tupac. >> Right. >> But they gave differing versions of how the shooting took place. Now, the
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parents' attorneys told the jury that Tupac was carrying a concealed weapon when a fight broke out. He drew the
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weapon, brandished it, but dropped it, and then yelled at Harding to get the gun. Several shots were fired, including
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the one that killed the boy. Tupac's lawyer told the jury that Tupac and Harding were attacked by a mob of angry
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people, and at one point someone fired a gun over the heads of the crowd to scare
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them off. I'm not certain that that's a great defense, but I guess it's that's probably why they ended up settling.
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This took place during an outdoor festival, which was among the large longest-running events conducted by
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African-Americans in Northern California. The event was not held for years after the boy's death. Now, that
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was taken from a newspaper article from 1995, so I'm not sure if or when they may have resumed the annual festival.
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In March of 1993, Tupac was arrested for threatening a limo driver in California.
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>> Well, and this is a story he brings up often in interviews. He talks about like, "Why why do I need to carry a
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gun?" Well, because I've had guns pulled on me in the last several years, and he
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always talks about that. "I had a gun pulled on me by a limo driver." Well, if you're making threats, maybe that's why
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the gun was pulled on you. >> Mhm. >> Or maybe the gun was pulled on you and then you made threats. I'm not I'm not
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really for sure. >> Also in 1993, Tupac was charged with one count of felonious assault. Uh he was
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accused of attempting to hit another rapper with a baseball bat at a concert at uh Michigan State University.
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The incident reportedly began when Tupac began became angry and threw a microphone. Uh he pled guilty in
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September of '94 to a misdemeanor in exchange for the dismissal of the felonious assault charge.
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He was sentenced to 30 days in jail, 20 of which were suspended, and he was ordered to perform 35 hours of community
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service. >> Well, if there's trouble, you know, Tupac's there. You know, that's what he does.
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>> With a baseball bat to straighten out the situation. >> To be fair, I mean, this he was a small
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guy. He was what, like 5'8", 5'9"? Uh maybe 150, 160 lbs. >> Yeah, and I I I want to be clear about
00:21:07
something, too, because in a lot of these stories, all right, you know, yes, we're pointing out that he played guilty
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or that he was charged with this. Um, there's like we see all the time, there's varying accounts of these stories of
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what actually happened, who who was the problem, who was not the problem. >> Well, and yeah, I mean, look, Tupac is
00:21:28
controversial, but I think a lot of his issues came from, I mean, obviously, especially at that time and you're a
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celebrity and you're in you're in the gangster rap world, you got a target on your back for trouble.
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>> Right. >> Right. So, I I maybe he brought some of this on himself, maybe it was brought
00:21:46
upon him and he had to defend himself. I I don't know. I wasn't there. >> Now, I don't want to sound like some
00:21:51
kind of jackwagon here, but for some reason, I like this next story, but but you got to hear it all the way through
00:21:58
before you judge me, okay? >> Well, I'm already judging you. >> Before you judge me, I
00:22:03
uh in in Atlanta >> We should have never covered the case. We got two uh suburban boys in a garage
00:22:10
covering Tupac. >> In Atlanta in late 1993, Tupac was charged with shooting two off-duty duty
00:22:18
suburban policemen. >> How the hell you like this story? >> Well, I told you, you got to hear it all
00:22:23
the way through before you judge me. See, you you I got one sentence in and you start judging.
00:22:28
>> I'm not mad at you. >> The Atlanta police said that the shooting occurred after two cars
00:22:33
carrying Tupac and his party almost struck the two men and their wives as they crossed the city street.
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>> Okay. >> Tupac was arrested at his hotel shortly after the shooting. He was charged with
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two counts of aggravated assault and then released on $55,000 bail. Now, Tupac's lawyer said that it appeared
00:22:53
from investigators descriptions of the incident that the two officers started whatever gunplay that it had occurred.
00:23:00
You know, so, we have a who shot first situation. According to some accounts, it was one of the officers who first
00:23:08
drew and possibly fired a gun, although no weapons were recovered. The police say witnesses gave this account of the
00:23:16
incident. Mark Whitwell, uh he's a police officer, and his wife were crossing the street.
00:23:22
>> Mark Whitwell. >> Well, >> what color he is. >> Well, Mark is a police officer, and he
00:23:27
and his wife were crossing an Atlanta street with Whitwell's brother, Scott, who is also a police officer, and his
00:23:34
wife. After the couples were nearly hit by the car, this is the car with Tupac and and his the other car following
00:23:41
them. >> Right. >> Um the two officers were both in civilian clothes at this point. They argued with
00:23:48
the driver and the passengers of the car, as well as the occupants of the second car that had pulled up. So,
00:23:54
according to some accounts, Mark Whitwell pulled out a gun, but it was not clear whether he had fired it.
00:24:00
Witnesses said that Tupac then fired a gun. Three shell casings from a 9-mm pistol were recovered by police.
00:24:09
Now, do you want to hear about the aftermath of this incident? >> Yeah, I'm trying to figure out why you
00:24:13
like this story. >> Okay, we're getting to the part that I like, all right? Okay, it was later
00:24:18
determined that the officers were drunk and in possession of stolen guns. >> Oh, great.
00:24:25
>> Okay, so as they crossed the street, a car with Tupac inside passed them or almost struck them. After arguing, Mark
00:24:32
Whitwell shot at Tupac's car. Tupac then shot one officer in the buttocks. >> [laughter]
00:24:39
>> And then the other he shot the other officer as well, and I think this was in
00:24:43
the leg. There's varying news reports about where he shot the guy. Mark Mark Whitwell was charged with firing at
00:24:51
Tupac's car and later charged for lying to the police during the investigation. Tupac was charged with with the shooting
00:24:59
as well. But the prosecutors eventually dropped all charges against both parties.
00:25:04
>> Oh, really? >> Mhm. Yeah, this is just like a really bad horrible incident where, you know,
00:25:10
drunk people, stolen guns by the police. Um, yeah. >> Cops lying. >> Yeah, unfortunately nobody was seriously
00:25:17
injured or or killed in this incident. Uh, but it's just a whole bunch of of people behaving badly.
00:25:24
Um, Tupac was supposed to be in the movie Menace II Society II. >> Mhm. >> Uh, the directors were twin brothers,
00:25:32
uh, who had directed some of I believe they directed some of Pac's music videos. Uh, but after several fights on
00:25:39
the set with the directors, Pac was fired. Well, he this really upsets Pac and he he storms the set armed with a
00:25:50
baseball bat. >> Right. >> And he goes after both of the twins, after both of the directors. Uh, he was
00:25:57
later found guilty of this assault. >> Well, let's uh, let's just put it out there for the listeners. I mean, were
00:26:03
you a you know, normally there's two camps. There's the Tupac camp or the Biggie camp.
00:26:08
>> Mhm. >> Which camp were you in? >> Um, I have to pick a whole camp? Um, >> Yeah, I I mean, you could like both of
00:26:15
them. I'm just saying, but you'd have to pick one over the other. >> If I guess if I could only choose one, I
00:26:21
was definitely a bigger Notorious B.I.G. fan. >> Mhm. >> Um, I owned more of his music than I did
00:26:28
of the Death Row West Coast guys. Uh, I've always liked Dr. Dre a lot. Uh, so that's it's tough for me to say that. I
00:26:36
don't really think of rap like that, you know, like um, those the gangster rap was never my thing. I always liked kind
00:26:43
of the more out there guys like like Busta Rhymes, uh, the Fugees. I like um, >> Well, we were pretty young. We're also
00:26:50
pretty young at the time. Right >> when like Tupac was coming out and more of a hit. That was like middle
00:26:56
middle school, early high school. >> Yeah, and we were probably still stuck in our grunge phase for a little bit of
00:27:02
that time. >> But okay, so if you had to pick favorite Tupac song, what what would you pick?
00:27:07
>> I'll tell you what. I You know, I only really liked the hits of Tupac, but if I picked one, and this
00:27:13
is one that I would recommend to anybody, because I think this this song shows his talent. You know, like I said,
00:27:19
I'm not big into gangster rap, but uh >> [laughter] >> You sound so white when you say that.
00:27:25
>> But well, yeah. >> I'm not saying that. >> But I like Dear Mama by by Tupac. And
00:27:29
I'll tell you why. Because I think I think you could list like any style of music and still like that song. Like
00:27:36
even if you didn't like rap, I think you could pick up that song and be like, all
00:27:39
right, I get this. I like it. It's that good of a song. >> Well, I'm just throwing this out there
00:27:44
and and I think one of the hardest things to do is to take a song and remake it and make it better than
00:27:51
the original. Right? >> Mhm. >> And one of and a a fabulous artist, a very talented artist, Bruce Hornsby, he
00:27:58
had the song The Way It Is. >> Right. >> And Tupac remade that and made it into Changes.
00:28:05
>> Oh, yeah. >> I personally think that Tupac's song is better. Now, I might get some hate mail
00:28:11
for that, but I think he took a song to the next level. And I think what he's saying is very socially relevant today
00:28:19
as much as it was back then. >> Mhm. >> Another song that is socially relevant probably today too is Keep Your Head Up.
00:28:26
That's another one that you should check out if you're not familiar with his work. But we'll get right back to that
00:28:30
after this quick beer break. >> [music] [music] >> All right, we're back. Cheers, mates.
00:28:56
>> Cheers. Now, I just want to paint a quick picture here for the younger listeners, Captain, because we're only
00:29:02
up to about '93, 1993 in our timeline. And we have a guy that that bust I mean, the guy bust onto the scene, right? He
00:29:11
comes onto the scene in '91. And Tupac, he was you know, we have albums coming out. He's in multiple movies uh in such
00:29:19
a short period of time. This was a guy that became very famous very quickly. >> He almost became It wasn't even just
00:29:26
like, "Oh, well, he's a star." or he's a superstar. He almost became a icon instantly.
00:29:31
>> Yeah, and the the thing that I remember being a younger guy was that it seemed
00:29:37
like over the course of this 2-year period that this guy was just always on TV. Like I said, the the the music, the
00:29:44
the movies. >> Well, and the arrest. >> And the arrest. And that's what it was. You couldn't turn on MTV or you couldn't
00:29:51
turn on the TV without hearing about something that either he he was being accused of or an
00:29:58
achievement that he made as far as his his acting or music career. >> Yeah, his talents.
00:30:03
>> And then he was in such high demand because he became so famous. He was a huge star that everybody wanted to
00:30:09
interview him. So, we have this guy that has these, let's say just, you know, blanket it and say legal troubles. But,
00:30:17
the thing I remember the most about him was that he would do a lot of interviews. And in the legal troubles
00:30:24
always came up during the interview. So, you would get to hear kind of his opinion on some of these things, which
00:30:29
was not something that you always saw with most stars. You know, most stars, if if they're facing some kind of
00:30:35
trouble, they might try to hide from the limelight a little bit. >> Well, All but I don't know how many
00:30:41
stars were facing this much trouble. >> Yeah, well, yeah. That and, you know, he
00:30:46
was a he was a very young man at this point in his life. Um but in I believe in in at least one occasion they had
00:30:54
used some footage from one of his interviews even against him at one of his trials.
00:30:59
>> Yeah, and I also think, you know, uh to paint a picture to it as much as it was, you know, from the
00:31:07
outsider looking in, it would just be uh this guy's a gangster rapper, right? So,
00:31:12
he's he's a thug, right? And he was saying stuff like thug life and stuff. So, he's just
00:31:18
But when you really break down a lot of his interviews, he was saying a lot of things of substance. This This guy was
00:31:23
uh a character of a lot of substance. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, very very intelligent guy. He might not have always shown that
00:31:30
off of the stage. Um I I think with his legal trouble, what I see here is is a It's like I said earlier, he's a
00:31:39
very young man. I think he was impulsive young man at times, overreacting in situations.
00:31:45
>> Yeah, and I think he was um forthcoming with the idea, "Hey, I'm I'm angry." >> Mhm.
00:31:51
>> You know, uh I grew up in the gutters and nobody helped me, and now that I'm getting something,
00:31:58
I'm I'm angry. >> Mhm. Well, in 1993, this was in November of 1993. Um this was one of his more well-known
00:32:07
legal troubles that he faced. Uh Tupac and others were charged with sexually assaulting a woman in a hotel room.
00:32:14
>> Mhm. >> Uh of course, he denied the charges. According to Tupac, he had had prior
00:32:19
relations days earlier with the woman that were consensual. Uh he says that his accuser claimed
00:32:27
sexual assault after her second visit to Tupac's hotel room. And she alleged that
00:32:33
secure Tupac's secure and his entourage had raped her. Um so this thing this thing goes to
00:32:41
trial. Uh the woman testified that she had had consensual oral sex with Tupac at a nightclub uh 4 days earlier.
00:32:50
>> On the dance floor. >> Yes, and we know that be from watching a interview with Arsenio Hall
00:32:56
um where he talked about some of you know some of this case as much as he probably could being that he's still on
00:33:03
trial. >> And possibly more than he should have. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But she she says
00:33:09
that at the hotel room that Tupac wanted to share her with his friends who forced
00:33:16
themselves on her. She said that Tupac and three of his friends they quote set upon
00:33:22
set upon me like animals. >> Mhm. >> Uh as the victim addressed the court now she's talking to the court, right? She's
00:33:30
giving her statements. Tupac stares intensely at her during her statements. Uh he then he gets up and
00:33:39
apologized to her. Uh he went on to say I'm not apologizing for a crime, he added. I hope in time you'll come forth
00:33:47
and tell the truth. Uh the defense said that she had made the accusations out of
00:33:53
jealousy when when she had seen Tupac with another woman. >> Right. >> Now one thing going on here at the
00:34:00
trial, this was a very well-publicized trial. Like the captain said, this is something he spoke about in interviews.
00:34:07
Um so there were a lot of Tupac supporters present at this trial. In fact, at one point a a woman that was in
00:34:15
the courtroom, she leaned over the rail and kissed Tupac on the cheek uh before this is just before a court officer
00:34:24
ordered her back to her seat. I'm I'm surprised she wasn't thrown out of the court completely.
00:34:29
>> Well, again, we we should put this in a little more context though. I mean Yeah, as much as he has, you know, you
00:34:35
know, the gangster rap songs, he also had some very, like we were talking about before, these
00:34:41
socially relevant songs. And one of the songs was Keep Ya Head Up. And and that song was all about It was a very
00:34:49
feminist viewpoint on on everything. >> Mhm. >> Uh and very >> Well, if I remember correctly, that's
00:34:56
the song where it you know, he this Some songs are a story. >> Right. >> Right. And the the if I remember
00:35:02
correctly, this is the song where he talks about the woman she's wearing sunglasses or her glasses and he knows
00:35:08
why she's wearing the glasses because somebody had hit her. >> Yeah, well, he was raised by a single
00:35:13
mother and so it's very, you know, um stay strong, you know, if you're single mother, yeah, you have a lot more to
00:35:19
deal with, but stay strong, it's worth it, you know, your kids are counting on you. And and a lot of stuff too with,
00:35:25
you know, if you're in an abusive relationship, you're worth more than that. And and just things of that
00:35:30
nature. >> Well, on the night of November 30th. Now, this is 1994. Uh this is still
00:35:37
during the trial for the sexual assault charges that Tupac was facing. Tupac was robbed and shot five times by
00:35:46
three men in the lobby of the Quad Recording Studio in Manhattan. >> Mhm. >> Uh Tupac stated that he had believed the
00:35:54
robbery to be a setup uh that he was set up for the attack. And he he even made comments about, you know, they stole
00:36:02
jewelry from me. But why did they leave, you know, my Rolex watch? They didn't take that.
00:36:08
>> Right. >> Uh Tupac, you know, think about this for a second here. He shot five times, right?
00:36:15
>> Right. >> He he very quickly checked out of the Bellevue Hospital Center against
00:36:20
doctor's orders. This was just 3 hours after surgery. Um and then in the day that followed, he
00:36:29
entered the courthouse back at his trial in a wheelchair. >> Yeah. Well, in the the big suspicion
00:36:37
here was, you know, they already had this East Coast-West Coast battle going on. So, a lot of people thought that
00:36:43
East Coast rappers were responsible for this possible hit. But, also the other thing, too, was
00:36:49
uh Tupac, you know, the cops actually thought that they could solve this case, but Tupac
00:36:54
wasn't really that cooperative with them. >> No. No. Uh, in fact, uh well, let's
00:36:59
let's get back to the trial real quick, and we'll go through this this whole attack, because that's a whole
00:37:04
that's a whole other can of worms. Um, in the end, Tupac and his road manager, this is Charles Fuller.
00:37:12
>> Mhm. >> Uh, they were convicted of first-degree sexual abuse. Um, they were acquitted of
00:37:17
weapons and sodomy charges. Uh, Tupac was sentenced to 1 and 1/2 to 4 and 1/2 years in prison for sexually
00:37:25
abusing the they call her a fan. Uh, and he tearfully apologized to his victim. But, even as he apologized, he
00:37:34
said that he had committed no crime. >> Right. And he states this over and over and over and over again in interviews.
00:37:41
>> Mhm. >> So, let's go back to this uh attack uh or the shooting that happened at the in
00:37:47
the recording studio. >> Yeah, and you could almost call this an attempt on his life. To be shot five
00:37:51
times or shot at five times, it almost appears like an attempted murder. >> Mhm.
00:37:56
>> Um, but yes, there was a robbery as well. But, in a 1995 interview with Vibe magazine, uh Tupac accused Sean Combs,
00:38:06
uh better known as Puffy or Puff Daddy, um also Jimmy Henchman and Biggie among others, you know, so there's other
00:38:14
people he accused of this of setting this situation up, um of setting up the attack at the Quad Recording Studios.
00:38:21
Now, eventually the the the magazine would change the names of some of the accused assailants upon publication.
00:38:30
Um so, you know, the it did not they did not implicate Biggie or Puff Daddy in this in this actual
00:38:38
thing, but that's who he was accusing. >> Yeah, but if you're a Tupac fan and you
00:38:42
listen to probably at this time half of his songs he starts saying, "You You guys know
00:38:49
what you did?" >> Mhm. >> "You know, you tried to kill me." He puts it out in songs.
00:38:53
>> Now, I had read some information that said that Biggie had entourage that was
00:38:58
upstairs uh when this incident took place. Um which from the way I understand it, this
00:39:04
is a large This is a took place in a large building. Um now, I I don't know if that's for certain, but the way that
00:39:11
the story goes is that Biggie's entourage, whomever they were, they went downstairs to check out the incident and
00:39:19
Tupac was being carried out on a stretcher by this time and he's basically, you know, he he's being
00:39:25
Tupac. He's He's shouting at everybody. He's angry at the situation. Of course, he's just been shot five times and he's
00:39:30
been and he's giving the finger to anybody in the area. [laughter] Now, I do want to touch upon some things
00:39:37
of here before we get to the the situation that takes place in Las Vegas because there are a lot of people that
00:39:44
believe that these two attacks could be tied in together, that they could have potentially been carried out by the same
00:39:51
person or persons or ordered by the same person or persons. So, in in the Los Angeles Times, this is journalist Chuck
00:39:58
Philips. Now, Philips would later allege that Sean Puffy Combs and Chris Wallace,
00:40:04
better known as Biggie, were aware a week in advance that Tupac would be ambushed in the 1994 shooting in New
00:40:13
York's Quad Recording Studio. Um to this would be two years before he was shot and killed in Vegas.
00:40:19
Uh, and the quote says that they were advised in advance of what was going to happen. Uh, they did not know the
00:40:25
assailants were going to be shooting. In fact, they were told not to shoot. Um, but what had happened apparently was
00:40:34
that when this attack went down, they state that Tupac pulled a gun and went haywire and it was supposed to just be a
00:40:42
severe beating that turned into this this terrible shooting. >> Mhm. Well, again, like we said, there was a
00:40:47
lot of these battle rap songs going on between West Coast and East Coast. A lot of trash talking.
00:40:53
Uh, back but look, Tupac's from New York, Biggie's from New York. Um, Biggie and Tupac were friends for a
00:41:00
while. Uh, Biggie actually opened up for Tupac multiple times. Now, you know, there's a lot of speculation
00:41:06
on why they had the falling out. Uh, possibly with Tupac sleeping with Biggie's wife and things like that. Um,
00:41:14
but as far as their careers go, having that battle between each other and that hype, again, like we said, in
00:41:22
this uh, two three year period, you could not turn on the TV without seeing Tupac Shakur on MTV, MTV News. Same way
00:41:30
with Biggie. Because every time Tupac was doing an interview, he did probably a a hundred times more interviews than
00:41:37
Biggie, but every time he's bringing up Biggie's name. >> Yeah, if if there were going to be an
00:41:43
Elvis of rap, you could put Tupac and Biggie as the one A and one B. You know, depending on who you talk to, that was
00:41:50
the biggest guy. That was the king of hip hop. >> All right, so who was trying to get at
00:41:56
one of the kings, right? Who was trying to get at Tupac? >> So, in Philip's article, he also alleges
00:42:02
that the main mastermind behind Tupac's setup was that Jimmy the henchman guy. Remember we mentioned him earlier, but
00:42:10
>> But he has connections to Puff Daddy. >> Correct. And and he it's it's Jimmy Henchman Rosemond is is what I I don't I
00:42:18
don't believe any of that is his full real name. >> [laughter] >> Um but basically uh
00:42:24
>> I'm in the wrong business, man. >> It states that Phillips, the the writer of the article, had arrived at this
00:42:30
conclusion after years of delving into the incident. He had talked to men who he believed were directly involved in
00:42:37
the shooting and had uncovered papers documenting uh the incident from an an FBI investigation.
00:42:45
>> Mhm. >> Whose findings coincide with what the article was stating. Now, the the FBI
00:42:51
talked to some criminals, according to these documents, and these criminals said that Jimmy Henchman was involved.
00:42:59
Um I do I do want to be clear here though because um it this they would later the the Los
00:43:07
Angeles Times would later retract this article. >> Mhm. >> Um because I think they I think some of
00:43:13
the >> were afraid they were going to get sued. >> Well, yeah, because I think it came into
00:43:17
question how he may have um uncovered some of this evidence and where he received some of these
00:43:23
documents from. >> Mhm. >> Or how it yeah, yeah. >> It The rumor is this, that he received
00:43:29
them from a guy that had told some stories in the past and might have forged some things in the past. So, when
00:43:35
you receive documents from this guy, you got to wonder, did he forge these particular documents themselves?
00:43:41
>> Right. >> Now, years later we have this this person Dexter Isaac. Um he he was
00:43:48
serving life in prison without parole for multiple murders and and armed robberies.
00:43:54
Um apparently he was working on releasing a book detailing his life in New York City, you know, on the streets
00:44:01
of New York City as a hitman and as muscle for uh this Jimmy Henchman Roseman guy that we've been talking
00:44:08
about. Uh um Uh so apparently Jimmy Henchman at some point finds his way into prison as well, serving quite a bit
00:44:16
of time, maybe even life for drug trafficking, money laundering, and witness tampering. So we're seeing a lot
00:44:22
of >> Too bad Puffy didn't go with him. >> Well, we're seeing a lot of bad dudes
00:44:27
uh that are rumored to have been involved in this setup that Tupac was talking about.
00:44:32
>> it was interesting that he didn't want to cooperate with the police, but but I
00:44:36
know that's that's different. It's a different time, and it's also a different uh lifestyle.
00:44:41
>> Uh the attack the attack itself went like this according to Dexter. He says that Jimmy the Henchman had approached
00:44:49
him and some of his associates. And they ordered he ordered them to rob Tupac when he got to the studio that evening.
00:44:57
Dexter says he was paid $2,500 cash to carry this out. >> Mhm. >> Uh Jimmy told Dexter not to shoot Tupac,
00:45:06
uh but to catch him by surprise and pistol-whip him, and then kick him around for a little bit and take his
00:45:12
biggest diamond ring. >> Mhm. >> Uh Dexter said that he saw Puff Daddy immediately after that conversation. He
00:45:20
saw Puff with Jimmy, and stating that he made eye contact with Puffy. >> All right, so then he took him out to
00:45:28
dinner and they they made love all night. What What was the point? He So he made eye contact with uh Powder Puff
00:45:34
Daddy. >> Well, what I what I think he's stating here is that he's saying, you know, I
00:45:39
was hired to carry out this robbery, to to go attack Tupac. Um and before we get too far in this, I
00:45:46
do want to mention there are some accounts out there. We talked about Tupac being shot five times. There are
00:45:52
some accounts according to certain witnesses that Tupac might have accidentally shot himself once or twice
00:45:58
during this altercation. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Right. >> But but come on. You're getting attacked and then you
00:46:06
pull a gun out and you end up shooting yourself. >> Like I said >> You shouldn't be carrying a gun if
00:46:10
that's what's going to happen. >> I don't know for certain, but according to some witnesses, they think that he
00:46:15
might have shot himself once or twice. >> Okay, we >> But but what does this have to do with
00:46:19
Puffy? Is what you wanted to know. >> Yeah, but the thing is is this is now the second altercation that we know of
00:46:25
that he pulls a gun on and there's accidental shootings. >> Right. >> And and again, too. 2,000 bucks. Hey, I
00:46:32
want you go into the studio and and rob Tupac. I want you to get his biggest diamond ring. I'll give you two grand.
00:46:38
Two grand? Really? >> It seems a little >> people up with baseball bats. >> It seems a little light, too, for a guy
00:46:45
that that was pretty vocal about always carrying a gun or a firearm, you know, you would
00:46:50
>> Right. >> I would assume if I were this Dexter Isaac. But but then again, this Dexter
00:46:55
Isaac guy's serving life in prison. So maybe he's not all there. Maybe the elevator didn't go all the way up. Or
00:47:01
maybe he just don't give a [ __ ] >> Right. >> And the thing is >> Did you just cuss for the first time on
00:47:06
the show? >> We're breaking down walls here. >> Wow, man. We We start talking about
00:47:10
Biggie and Tupac, you get gangster. >> You get real gangster [laughter] up in here. Okay, so let's get back to
00:47:16
Pow- Powderpuff Daddy, right? >> Okay, so how does this all tie in? >> can't tell, I don't like him.
00:47:21
>> Um well, this is These are just statements according to this Dexter Isaac guy, right? So basically what he's
00:47:28
saying is that shortly after he's hired by Jimmy, like just minutes after he's he we have this conversation, he hires
00:47:36
him to take out this attack on Tupac, that he sees Puff Daddy with this same guy that just ordered it.
00:47:42
>> Right. >> Meaning that the guy that ordered it could be some kind of middleman for Puff
00:47:46
Daddy. Um so basically he's >> Wouldn't put it past him, though. I wouldn't put it past him.
00:47:52
>> Well, Dexter claims His claims basically kind of confirm what other people were already believing
00:47:58
at the time that Puff Daddy was at least aware of this plan. Now, Dexter says that there's no way that Biggie or any
00:48:06
of Junior Mafia were there that night because he because he knew Puff Daddy. >> Right.
00:48:13
>> And he knew when he went into the studio that none of these other dudes were around.
00:48:19
He sees Puff Daddy with this Jimmy guy that night and that's that's what he states.
00:48:23
>> All right, so Powder Puff Daddy is maybe the go-between guy to order the hit, is what you're saying.
00:48:30
>> Right. And then let's be clear. I'm I'm a big Biggie fan. I'm big Tupac fan, big
00:48:35
Biggie fan. >> I think you can be fans of both. I don't think you have to choose a side here.
00:48:39
Um >> Well, I'm choosing a side that I don't like Powder Puff Daddy. >> That's fine. We'll we'll we'll go with
00:48:44
that. >> Right. >> Um so, but so he he goes and describes this incident in some detail. Um he says
00:48:52
that the initial head wound that Tupac suffered was because of Dexter's associate who he
00:48:58
labels as JD. >> Mhm. >> Uh he pistol-whipped Tupac. Remember, this was part of Jimmy's request.
00:49:05
>> Mhm. >> Um and then he says that Tupac reached for his gun and they were wrestling for
00:49:11
the gun, fighting for the gun for a while before Tupac could pull it out completely. Now, the gun during this
00:49:18
course it goes off. >> Well, maybe that's how he got hit. >> Yeah. Well, and Dexter believes that Tupac
00:49:26
And these are his words. These are not scientific words here. But he says that he says that the gun went off and he
00:49:33
shot himself in the nuts. >> [snorts] >> Um >> [laughter] >> Well, this is where remember how I said
00:49:38
there's varying accounts of, you know, he Pac is shot five times. >> Right. >> And there's there's some witnesses that
00:49:46
say that Pac shot himself once, some saying he shot himself twice. Well, according to Dexter he shot himself
00:49:53
once. >> Well, if you shoot yourself in the nuts, that's like shooting yourself five
00:49:56
times. >> You're right, but again, it's it's not a scientific thing. He might have just
00:50:02
shot himself in the pants. You know what I mean? Or or >> The bullet went straight through the
00:50:07
scrotum. >> Yeah, I I don't think that Dexter's sitting there analyzing the situation. I think
00:50:12
it's probably a pretty quick attack. There's probably a lot of confusion and then you run the hell out of there.
00:50:18
>> Yeah, he probably didn't say "Tupac, pull down your drawers. Let me see what happened."
00:50:22
>> But he says that Tupac wouldn't quit fighting. That he wouldn't quit fighting
00:50:26
back, which I think is what we would all expect. They were trying to take all of Tupac's
00:50:32
jewelry and that they shot him several times after this because he wouldn't quit fighting.
00:50:38
>> Well, and because they're only being being paid 2,000 bucks, but maybe the thing was "We want you to rob him and
00:50:44
whatever you get, you can keep." >> Mhm. He He goes on to state that it was well,
00:50:51
that basically, once Tupac was at the hospital, that Jimmy was willing to send somebody or somebodies there to the
00:51:00
hospital to finish the job. >> Right. >> And according to this guy, that some of
00:51:05
some of Tupac's guys caught wind of this or heard this rumor from somebody or I think it
00:51:11
was phoned into them from somebody. They called the police and said, "Look, our buddy, our dude was He was attacked. He
00:51:19
was shot several times. He's in the hospital and we heard the rumor that the guys that that set him up, the guys that
00:51:25
tried to kill him, well, they're going to come to the hospital and finish the job."
00:51:29
>> Well, this Yeah, this happens all the time. I mean, I used to work at a bank right beside of
00:51:34
a a hospital. And if there was a gang-related shooting and there was somebody that got hit,
00:51:41
right? And they were in recovery, that they had to guard >> Mhm. that, you know, for maybe possibly
00:51:52
retaliation or whatever. >> And I believe that that stuff totally goes down. You know, that that that
00:51:57
there's probably several attempts on people in certain situations, but it seems very like Italian mob movie to me,
00:52:06
right? You know what I mean? Like you you see that in a lot of the Italian mob movies. So, anyway, they phone into the
00:52:12
police that, you know, you've got to send some people over here because this guy is going to get killed. We're going
00:52:18
to have an incident at the hospital. >> And possibly one of the reasons why Tupac didn't want to stay in the
00:52:23
hospital. >> Well, I think you're on to something there, Captain, because the rumor is
00:52:26
this, that the police were basically like, "Yeah, we hear you. We're understaffed. We can't We can't send
00:52:33
anybody over there to guard the door or or whatever it was going to be." >> Well, and also, in their defense, I
00:52:40
mean, you know how many times Tupac talked [ __ ] about the cops? In songs or in interviews and stuff like that. And
00:52:47
then, look, if you're going to talk mad [ __ ] about the cops, like I'm talking mad [ __ ] about, you know,
00:52:53
Puff Daddy, right? >> But you don't expect to be invited to his pool party. >> Right, but I'm not going to call up Puff
00:52:59
Daddy and say, "Hey, can you produce a song for me? And and do some dumb dances in my videos?" I'm not going to do that.
00:53:06
>> Well, and like you said, you know, that's probably good reason why two You know, I wondered I wondered this because
00:53:12
>> Why does Puff Daddy dance like a idiot? >> Well, the that's a whole 'nother That's
00:53:18
a whole 'nother episode. >> whole 'nother crime. >> [laughter] >> But the thing here is, Captain, you
00:53:23
know, what I heard was that Tupac's buddies called in this information to the police. And like you said about
00:53:29
Tupac, he was let's say outspoken, okay? He was a very outspoken guy. I always wondered even if
00:53:37
the police had shown up to watch his room, could you think of how possibly uncomfortable that situation could have
00:53:44
been for anybody? You know, could you see a police officer showing up to his room and then Tupac giving that dude
00:53:51
stuff? >> Right, out of fear. >> Giving him the business giving him the business, but like you said,
00:53:57
um that is is the rumor why Tupac probably left the hospital at the very first chance he could.
00:54:04
>> Right, out of fear. >> As early as he could run out the door, he did against doctor's orders shortly
00:54:09
after the surgery. >> Well, right. You were just attacked by these people and you might not know who
00:54:13
they are, but now you're getting rumors and >> not have any nuts left. >> [laughter]
00:54:18
>> So, I shouldn't have said that. That's horrible. I can't I'm turning into the
00:54:21
captain. >> [laughter] >> I think you >> Nurse, nurse, we're all out of nuts. Oh, god.
00:54:28
>> I think I think I think we drank too much. I think we we need to wrap this up
00:54:33
pretty soon, okay? So, where were we at? >> Well, before we do, we you know, we should mention after this attack on
00:54:39
Tupac >> Mhm. >> after the attempt and I'm going to call this this is an attempt on his life in
00:54:43
my opinion. This is a a murder attempt. I don't care if people say that we were just supposed to beat him. I don't care
00:54:49
what what goes down once you get there. Uh this is what took place. >> Mhm. Right, you don't care what you were told
00:54:55
to do. What you care is what actually happened. >> Exactly. So, the thing here is Pac has
00:55:01
to go back to court. He's still waiting, you know, for the end of this trial on the sexual assault case. Um you know,
00:55:08
he's in a wheelchair. We talked about he and his road manager Chris Fuller were both convicted of first-degree sexual
00:55:15
abuse and now Tupac has this lengthy prison sentence. And I say lengthy because the other charges he had faced
00:55:23
in the past, he received, you know, 20-day sentence or 30-day sentence or or things were settled out of court. Um so,
00:55:30
Tupac began serving his prison sentence on the sexual assault charges at the Clinton Correctional Facility.
00:55:37
Um, this would be in 1995. Now, shortly afterward, uh, he released his multi-platinum album Me Against the
00:55:45
World. Everybody remembers that one. Uh, Tupac became the first artist to have an
00:55:50
album at number one on the Billboard Billboard 200 chart while serving a prison sentence. So, he's got that going
00:55:58
for him. >> All right, quite an accomplishment. >> Well, in October of 1995, Tupac his case
00:56:05
is up for appeal at this time. Um, but because he has considerable legal fees, >> Mhm.
00:56:11
>> he could not raise the, this is what I've been told, $1.4 million bail. That's That's a whole lot of bail. Um,
00:56:20
so after serving 9 months of his prison sentence, uh, Tupac is released due in large part to the help and influence of
00:56:29
A-1 Suge Knight, >> Right. >> who was the CEO of Death Row Records. He posted Apparently, he posted the $1.4
00:56:38
million bail in exchange for Tupac signing a deal with Death Row Records. >> Right. And this was all done and this
00:56:46
was all handwritten. I think it was like maybe a three or four pages. It was pretty goofy deal. And it was actually,
00:56:53
uh, a three record deal. >> Yeah. And for my understanding, like you said, Captain, this was all pretty
00:56:59
closed-door, hush-hush type stuff for a long time, wasn't it? Like, we'll we'll post your extremely high bail
00:57:06
in exchange you're signing a record deal with us. That doesn't It doesn't seem like a real
00:57:10
>> And I Yeah, I don't know off the top of my head who Death Row was actually distributed by.
00:57:15
>> Mhm. >> But they possibly were distributed by Interscope. >> Mhm. And like you said, um, you know,
00:57:22
now this is binding Tupac to a three-album deal with Death Row Records. And now Tupac was scheduled to be to,
00:57:31
uh, be released from prison because of the influence of a one Suge Knight who will will have to he's a whole 'nother
00:57:37
he's a whole 'nother character in himself that we'll have to get into in tomorrow's show.
00:57:41
>> four characters in one. >> Yeah. >> So just to clarify what I was talking about before, the label that he was on,
00:57:48
you know, we talked about Tupac being on Interscope. Well, the sub label of that
00:57:52
was Jive. >> Right. >> And all this contract did was basically make the sub label now Death Row. It was
00:57:59
still under Interscope Records. But this this this contract he signed was I don't know. I mean, if he would have
00:58:05
wanted to fight it in court, he probably could have could have beat it. >> Well, and I I don't know the details of
00:58:12
the contract, but he was like like we said at the time, he's A number one. You know, he him and
00:58:20
Biggie are the two biggest guys. So if you have a record label and you can get one of these dudes on your label, you're
00:58:26
going to become one of the biggest labels. And the thing here is it it it might be because
00:58:32
I would argue, like you said, he might be able to beat it in court because you almost could argue that under duress he
00:58:38
signed this unfair deal, let's say. Um who knows who the stipulations of it, but it's
00:58:45
>> Yeah, I don't think it was I don't think it was like a unfair deal, but he was already running around in
00:58:50
that circle of uh rappers anyways. And and Death Row was already coming up. I mean, they had
00:58:56
the biggest producer in the hip-hop world, Dr. Dre. Uh Snoop Dogg was getting big at the time. So and
00:59:03
they were all friends. So I think I think also part of it too was maybe for the for the protection of it. Suge Knight
00:59:11
being a gang member turn bodyguard turn record owner record label owner. So I think maybe he wanted to join for
00:59:20
his forces with them for security reasons. I mean, he was just shot five times. >> Okay, well we'll get into the the night
00:59:27
in Vegas, the famous night in Vegas, Uh and we'll get into a bunch of theories you know, regarding who took down Tupac,
00:59:35
who was involved, all that tomorrow. >> Well, and we got to start off with the idea of is he dead or alive?
00:59:42
>> All right, thanks everybody for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Thank you for the five star reviews on
00:59:46
iTunes. We will see everybody back here in the garage tomorrow. And until then, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
01:00:16
>> [music]