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00:01:11
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00:01:23
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everybody this is fantastic wonderful exciting stuff something we've been working very hard on the captain
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well all right let's gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:03:28
crime [Music] thank you [Music] [Music] thank you [Music] well I just spoke with Tinley Park's
00:04:15
police chief he tells me this sketch was released on the eve of the anniversary on purpose because people tend to have
00:04:21
the most interest in this cold case this time of year the new 3D image is now hanging inside the police station and
00:04:28
its broadcast everywhere it is an enhanced version of a previous sketch drawn from an eyewitness account in 2008
00:04:35
the new photo uses facial identification technology to make it more lifelike now
00:04:40
whoever that man is entered a Tinley Park Lane Bryant 10 years ago and announced a robbery he ordered a group
00:04:47
of women into a back room tied them up with duct tape and shot five of them dead one of the victims dialed 9-1-1
00:04:55
police released a snippet of that call years ago 9-1-1 emergency police say the suspect's voice can also
00:05:10
be heard on the background of that call detectives have now isolated The Voice although his words are almost
00:05:16
indistinguishable Tinley Park's Chief says one to two new tips come in on the case every week they
00:05:38
hope this sketch and voice recording will give them even more leads can you believe it's been 10 years
00:05:45
no it's time goes by but we've worked on it steadily for 10 years continue to work on it there's five women that that
00:05:52
need us to clear this up foreign [Music] there Captain we hear the news reporter
00:06:07
asking the police chief can you believe it's been 10 years and that's exactly the case here in 2008 five women were
00:06:16
killed inside of the Lane Bryant store in what police would describe as a botched robbery or a robbery turned
00:06:24
violent now you hear the police chief there stating no we cannot believe that it's been 10 years this is a case that
00:06:31
they've worked very hard they've spent millions of dollars trying to find the guy that shot these five women to death
00:06:38
we also still ten years later they have a full-time officer working the case as well as another officer that works the
00:06:46
case part-time over the years of I've heard from this detective that there have been three times throughout
00:06:54
the last 10 years where he believed that they were very close to solving the case
00:06:59
that they had a suspect three times they had a suspect that they like so much they thought that they were going to be
00:07:05
able to provide the families with some justice finally after all these years now at least bring charges to these
00:07:11
suspects and today we know that they currently do not have any suspects or anyone that they have named
00:07:18
publicly as a suspect in this case now I do before we get into some things today
00:07:23
we got a lot to cover we want to go through the 9-1-1 call we want to go through some vehicles that were in the
00:07:29
area at the time some things that could lead us into some thoughts about our suspect here but before we do so Captain
00:07:35
I kind of wanted to highlight some pieces of the investigation along the way so in the very early parts of the
00:07:44
investigation remember we said that that police had one thing working in their advantage and that was the a Tinley Park
00:07:50
police officer was parked in a vehicle just that was adjacent to the parking lot of the Lane Bryant at the time of
00:07:58
the 9-1-1 call yeah about 200 yards away yes so this officer was on the scene within just a couple of minutes yeah a
00:08:06
couple minutes after that there's going to be multiple law enforcements that are
00:08:10
going to be at the scene yeah they're they're showing up and arriving to the area multiple Police Department
00:08:15
Apartments the the Chicago PD helicopter was was in the air shortly after the crime was discovered so what's so weird
00:08:25
here Captain is that we have this guy that he kills these women he walks out of the store we can see the huge police
00:08:32
response that's going on in the area almost immediately afterwards and yet somehow this guy is able to disappear as
00:08:42
soon as he leaves the store he's not highly noticeable he's he gets away somehow he's able to slip back into the
00:08:48
fold or hide in the background well and we but we do have on video camera two cars that that left one being asked you
00:08:57
V one being a sedan now police investigated they did investigate whether the killer had any connections
00:09:03
to one of the victims um because as we had stated in the last episode most robbers probably wouldn't
00:09:10
hit a clothing store early in the morning and probably wouldn't stay 40 minutes like this guy did for the first
00:09:17
51 days of the investigation nearly 50 investigators worked to find the Lane Bryant killer together they logged over
00:09:26
30 000 hours on the case the the cost of the investigation surpassed four hundred
00:09:32
thousand dollars this was just in the first 51 days another interesting thing here Captain
00:09:39
when we talk about the pursuit of this man the pursuit of the killer that fled police even locked down stores in the
00:09:47
area including a Super Target PetSmart and Office Max searching the area with guns drawn this
00:09:55
case has been it's been interesting to research in the sense that I know a guy that lives in the greater
00:10:02
Chicago area he's not in law enforcement but he's familiar with law enforcement and so he and I over the past couple
00:10:09
weeks have been trading a lot of emails back and forth about this case and one thing that he told me was that his his
00:10:16
name we'll call him Greg I didn't get it permission if I'm allowed to use his name I'll just uh but anyway one thing
00:10:22
he told me was that his wife had been in a store that was just within a mile of the Lane Bryant store at the time of the
00:10:29
killings and she was at this place called dinner by Design and she was there with several friends
00:10:36
of hers and the during this time the Tinley police stormed in they they had their hands on their holsters some of
00:10:44
them had guns drawn and they locked the door behind them when they came in to search the business now once the
00:10:51
business was cleared they told everybody what had happened and said that everybody needed to stay
00:10:59
inside and they locked the doors as they left the uh the store and then went on to clear another store so they were they
00:11:08
were heavily heavily in pursuit of this man with cars helicopters and on foot well not only the immediate response was
00:11:17
huge by law enforcement but they've continued to work this heavily and use every technology that they can yeah and
00:11:25
they've allowed this to take them down some different Avenues in pursuit of this person they even used the IRS to do
00:11:33
some background searches for them they used NASA they had NASA pool satellite images of
00:11:40
vehicles that were in Lots outside of the store within minutes of shots being fired the secret service has helped with
00:11:48
phone records foreign police agencies have run ballistics tests for this case Illinois State Police have screened
00:11:56
weapons that get turned in or brought back to see if they can match it to the handgun that was used by the Killer and
00:12:04
I'm assuming that they probably ran the DNA as well that's a that's an interesting question
00:12:11
and I do do you want to get into that now because I know you're kind of chomping at the bit to get at that let
00:12:17
me I'll tell you what let me wrap this up real quick so I don't forget something
00:12:21
okay I just wanted to mention that in this year alone to show you the activity involved in the community here is that
00:12:31
just this year alone they have they have received 87 leads that were called in and over the course of the 10 years
00:12:37
they've investigated and received more than 7 000 leads total since the murders so investigators have gone as far as
00:12:47
London to check new fingerprint technology on the shell casings that were found that day in the village
00:12:55
Tinley Park has spent nearly two million dollars on this investigation so the detectives have continued to filter
00:13:01
through these leads up to this day they're going to continue to do so they've they've categorized and logged
00:13:09
all these leads and they've investigated them all so a huge effort as you had had
00:13:14
stated now regarding the DNA this is a big point of contention for me and it doesn't seem to be a point of
00:13:23
contention for anybody else when you start looking into this case and what I mean by that is
00:13:29
I'm not convinced that either a that they have DNA or that they have good DNA right and here's here's my thoughts on
00:13:38
this and okay so in doing research for this case one one place that it led me and I
00:13:46
think you you fell into this as well was Reddit there's a lot of discussion about this
00:13:52
case on Reddit yeah and it's I love Reddit by the way it's yeah but it's as far as a resource it's not always the
00:14:00
best investigative tool because there's there's a lot of conversation on there there's a big conversation on there
00:14:07
that's that's a unique one and a good idea a very good idea is that the reason why this case might not be solved is
00:14:15
that all these years police have said that they're looking for a man yeah where where in fact this might be a
00:14:22
woman aha um that's my gut feeling for whatever reason before we even you know research this at all for what for
00:14:37
whatever reason I was watching some report uh some old news report and I just went I don't think it's a man
00:14:44
well and then my first response to that is well they have DNA right and my first
00:14:51
thought then would be well if they have DNA and they've said for 10 years that they're looking for a man they wouldn't
00:14:56
want to screw up their investigation they need the Public's help here right they would not want to screw up their
00:15:02
investigation and say that they're looking for a man when in fact it's a woman that they would never do that so
00:15:08
that has led people to believe that they've tested the DNA that they had and it's the the evidence points to it being
00:15:15
a man right but maybe they don't have good enough DNA that's where I question this whole thing yeah or
00:15:22
what if you you have eyewitness right we have a surviving witness and for the record she's always said it's a man
00:15:30
right she believes it to be a man which I think we're calling her Martha yes so Martha says I believe that this guy it
00:15:38
was a man then they get the DNA back from under the fingernails possibly because we have
00:15:43
fingernail clippings and we get touch DNA back possibly right and then they test it and they go oh well there's some
00:15:51
female DNA here this must be the victim's DNA and that is a contaminant right well
00:15:59
because if it were separate they could decipher that it's separate and they could figure out that it came from the
00:16:04
victim you know they would they would test the victim as well ah but not always I mean we've seen cases where
00:16:09
they've tested people and then accusations that you know somebody's kid is not their kid that was you know I
00:16:17
mean so I see what you're saying so Labs can get this wrong so but I just wonder
00:16:20
if that threw them off and they were like well this DNA evidence is no good because we don't have uh any sign of
00:16:27
male DNA evidence in this test is what I'm saying I I think you lost me because I I think the the counter argument has
00:16:34
always been it has to be a man because they have DNA evidence right but I don't think that was why they think it's a man
00:16:40
I think they think it's a man because of eyewitness and I have not seen anywhere
00:16:45
that they said we tested DNA evidence and it's a man thank you thank you now now here sorry
00:16:52
I'm a little frustrated all right but before we get too far into this captain my my gut feeling is that it's that it's
00:16:58
a man but I'm you're my boy I'm gonna take you back here my boy blue well and the reason why I will not discredit the
00:17:05
the possibility of it being a woman is this anytime that I've seen a debate on if it's a man or a woman the the
00:17:13
the person always tries to end the debate supporting the fact that it's a man by stating they have DNA they would
00:17:20
know if it's a man or a woman they've always said it's a man so it has to be a man
00:17:25
like you just said though researching this case for two weeks I couldn't find anywhere I couldn't find I
00:17:33
couldn't find it printed in any newspaper I couldn't find it where the video footage of of a officer a
00:17:41
detective a police chief at any time outrightly stating we have DNA of this suspect they they always hint that they
00:17:52
might have DNA they always throw out statements that would suggest that they have DNA that doesn't mean that they
00:17:59
have DNA on this guy or girl this what this means is they could be trying to put this person off kilter they could
00:18:08
probably be trying to put this person off ease we have DNA that you left at the crime scene because we have
00:18:15
fingernail clippings or we found blood underneath one of the victims fingernails there were things that were
00:18:21
left at the crime scene this just implies that they have DNA they never outwardly state that they 100 percent do
00:18:28
and not only did you were you unable to find that I was unable to find that and I emailed my friend quote unquote Greg
00:18:36
in Chicago who was well aware of this case and he said the same thing at no point have I ever come across where the
00:18:46
police are outwardly saying that they in fact have DNA and to further that that they've tested it to confirm that it's a
00:18:54
man so I think if that's going to be your argument your counter punch there it doesn't work for me because when you
00:19:01
throw that out there and you state that that is that is a fact please post that link underneath your
00:19:09
argument so we can verify that check the box and make sure that it's no longer a
00:19:14
concern so this is where we give the homework portion uh from time to time on the show Captain if anybody if anybody
00:19:20
finds can find a link where there is a officer directly involved in this investigation that is being quoted in a
00:19:27
newspaper or being interviewed and and we can see the words coming out of their mouth that they have DNA please post a
00:19:35
link to that on our blog at truecrime garage.com right and so the other problem too is that they said that this
00:19:42
in the suspect was possibly five nine to six foot tall so you're talking about a
00:19:49
gap maybe three inches but now if you go three inches lower now you're talking about a gap of five or a height of five
00:19:57
six to five nine which would be more stereotypical female height so I I don't know and then the big thing
00:20:06
for me is the 9-1-1 call now what police have stated or multiple media sources have stated as they believe that you can
00:20:16
hear the suspect's voice on the 9-1-1 call yes so do you want to get to that yes
00:20:22
let's go ahead and play the 911 clip that we played yesterday on the line stay on the line let me get
00:20:35
you to Tinley Park don't hang up Captain real quick here I want to throw this out to the listeners there's a
00:20:45
toll-free number out there where you can call and you can hear a longer version of this 9-1-1 call and they actually
00:20:53
replay the portion that they believe to be the suspect which is heard in the background and on our clip that we just
00:21:00
played you can hear the suspect well what we believe to be the suspect a little bit in the background as well now
00:21:07
we didn't include this version on the show because frankly the audio that the captain just provided that 911 clip that
00:21:15
is shorter the audio from that is much better than a lot of the stuff out there even that what you will hear on this
00:21:22
toll-free number but the number for anybody out there that's interested and this is also where you can provide tips
00:21:29
too and that's the key thing with this number here the number is 866-853-6222 and that's a number that
00:21:38
has been put up and paid for by the 10 Lee Park Police Department again that number is
00:21:46
866-853-6222 you can call that and hear a longer version of the clip and you could leave a tip there as well with
00:21:55
your information now let's talk about that 9-1-1 clip a little bit here Captain because
00:22:01
there is a portion that they do not play In that clip that we played and it's where you can hear what is believed to
00:22:09
be the suspect talking before Rhoda hangs up the phone with 9-1-1 now what I did because
00:22:18
I had I had a lot of trouble trying to decipher to decipher what this suspect is saying and so what I did was I got
00:22:26
online and I did a bunch of hunting around and I thought you know what Let's find let's find the general consensus of
00:22:34
others out there of what they believe that they are hearing now mind you this is very choppy a lot of it's not full
00:22:41
sentences but some of the things that are believed to be being said by the suspect in the background is as follows
00:22:49
that after the after Rhoda is told not to hang up the phone you hear the suspect going on about something
00:22:57
and it's believed that he or she I guess I should say is possibly saying the following relax
00:23:04
get over here you're such a hero right now that you're such a hero right is is a um one portion
00:23:12
of the tape that is highly talked about but it seems the general consensus seems to be that the
00:23:19
word hero is somewhere in there because I've seen other versions that are very close to that that says something like
00:23:24
don't be a hero huh or you don't want to be a hero right um so something about a hero
00:23:32
it's also believed to be heard that he says you're going to die you're lucky and I'm losing it now during the course
00:23:42
this is one thing that we are not hearing in Tinley Park police have been upfront about this
00:23:47
during the course of that suspect kind of rambling on and it actually sounds like he is kind of directing the
00:23:54
hostages or yelling directly at one of them in the background there are responses from the victims that are in
00:24:02
the room with him that the police have edited out before it was released to the public right so there's more information
00:24:09
on the original tape that they're not going to release and I think probably for good reason but
00:24:17
the one thing that I seem to be able to make out pretty clearly is that one line
00:24:22
of I'm losing it now I don't know that I hear exactly that maybe a different slightly different version of that
00:24:28
sentence but the word losing seems to be pretty clear at some point in this audio
00:24:34
at the beginning I hear almost like a yo I'm tired of yelling yeah so let's just
00:24:40
play the clip one more time stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to Tinley Park don't hang up
00:24:53
well let me just Loop the one part where it's you can clearly tell it's somebody
00:24:57
else like the third person if you will on the call the suspect we're at one more time
00:25:10
stay on the line right so if I have to mimic that right it's like yo um right well what I hear is
00:25:22
and this is not this is not a portion of the tape that we've analyzed I don't know that others have tried to figure
00:25:28
out what the suspect is saying there because the the whispering coming from the victim and the dispatcher so
00:25:34
prominent here right I don't know that this has been but it's not important that's what I'm saying what's not
00:25:40
important what I'm saying is not that important on what the person in the background saying if this is the suspect
00:25:47
what I'm doing is just yo [Music] right that's that's my point on making it more of a it's a it's a woman's voice
00:25:59
it's a woman's range I mean you'd think of as a man and be like yo I'm tired of yelling that's way down
00:26:07
here we're talking you have to go up pretty high and the mail register to to hit What notes they're that they're
00:26:17
saying I mean even when you speak you're speaking in notes does that make sense so that's what I'm saying to me it's
00:26:23
like it doesn't even matter what they're saying it's like to I audibly hear if that is the suspect in the background
00:26:30
and not a victim because we do have uh well we have one victim on the phone so we have four other victims that would be
00:26:36
in the room if if they believe they're that they're not talking and that is the suspect to me that's a female voice
00:26:44
right and and but at the same time though I kind of point out what I think I hear the person to be saying because
00:26:52
I think that tells you if it is the suspect or if it is one of the other victims it because to me it almost
00:26:58
sounds like the person is saying I'm tired of yelling looking for blah blah blah almost like the person is
00:27:07
is announcing to the people that they've taken hostage that I'm tired of asking you all these questions why isn't buddy
00:27:14
anybody telling me the answers I want to know I'm looking for this I'm looking for this and then I'm going to leave I'm
00:27:20
getting tired of you not helping me out I came here looking for money and I've not found very much money now I
00:27:26
understand I I get your point because when you isolate that spot on the tape and you play it back the couple of times
00:27:32
that you did is the pitch higher than I anticipated hearing knowing that I believe the suspect to be a man the
00:27:40
answer is yes that pitch is higher than I anticipated to hear however I I just you know our our voices do
00:27:49
funny things um everything does funny I'm just stating that this is uh do some funny
00:27:55
things this is a heightened situation this is not a calm situation on either part the victims or the suspect and I
00:28:04
know that sometimes when people are yelling some people project a higher pitch at times uh thrown into a
00:28:10
stressful situation somebody's pitch could go up or down uh depending on their emotion at the time as well with
00:28:17
this individual is angry or scared themselves who knows what their voice could do but I agree with you Captain a
00:28:25
higher pitch than I would anticipate uh regarding a male suspect of that size 9-1-1 emergency
00:28:36
stay on the line stay on the line let me get you to Tinley Park don't hang up [Music]
00:28:53
when you're craving a vegan meatball sub from the sandwich shop down the road get
00:28:57
fast delivery through doordash and when you need stain remover because you use your T-shirt as a napkin get fast
00:29:03
delivery through doordash then later when your marathon and cooking shows and start to think making lemongrass Ginger
00:29:09
macaroons from scratch can't be that hard you can still get fast delivery through doordash get groceries and
00:29:15
anything else you could need from your neighborhood with doordash place your first order now at doordash.com or the
00:29:21
app and get a zero dollar delivery fee terms apply [Music] please all right we're back cheers and you know
00:29:35
what Captain I know him a few days early but uh we won't have another show out before then so happy birthday to you my
00:29:42
friend I'm officially old it's a captain's birthday Ahoy Ahoy all right back to the case you've been
00:29:49
drinking too much well I thought you were gonna give me like a nice cheers back and instead of nothing happened
00:29:54
it's not your birthday nothing happened but uh you know usually somebody goes cheers somebody else goes cheers and
00:30:00
then you move on um okay surveillance footage now one thing we've touched upon a little bit
00:30:06
here Captain there were some surveillance footage some video taken from the Target Superstore across the
00:30:13
street now it's estimated that these cameras well not estimated it's reported that these cameras were roughly a
00:30:19
hundred yards away from the what we're about to talk about and this being two vehicles that were spotted in the lane
00:30:27
in front of the Lane Bryant store that were leaving the parking lot around the same time as it's estimated that the
00:30:36
suspect was leaving yeah here's a couple problems with this first of all is the time correct on surveillance like
00:30:44
in many cases that we've covered there's been cameras but the the times weren't correct right so that is one thing that
00:30:52
we have to think about with this surveillance well I I think we can the I've seen the time stamps on the
00:31:01
surveillance footage and it is a little off of this Mark a bit but the report that I found that I find
00:31:09
to be the most credible states that they believe that these vehicles were seen exiting or leaving those spots sometime
00:31:18
between 10 46 and 10 49 a.m so that'd be off the the time would be off on the on
00:31:25
the actual tape correct just slightly um a few minutes and I think I think the time stamp on the surveillance footage
00:31:33
if I remember correctly is slightly ahead of that it's running a little faster than that but the way that they
00:31:39
can kind of determine how accurate the time is is we have within you know within maybe minutes or seconds even we
00:31:49
have a general idea of what time the police officer is going to state that he arrived on the scene so once once they
00:31:56
can confirm using the other surveillance footage what time these vehicles were seen leaving they can compare that in
00:32:02
comparison to when the officer arrived to see how close they can get to that time now what are we seeing in the video
00:32:08
well first off anybody out there that has seen this video will 100 back me up on this this is some grainy footage
00:32:16
right that was taken from approximately 100 yards away and you police have even commented on this to the point of
00:32:25
stating that you know while this is helpful to the investigation what it does not allow them to do because of the
00:32:32
distance is read license plate numbers right or to possibly identify people that might be sitting inside these
00:32:40
vehicles but what it does show is a small black SUV and a black sedan now both of these vehicles are at the at the
00:32:50
Lane Bryant and then leaving around the time of the shooting so the thought here
00:32:55
is when police are asking the community for help you know the first thing that they're
00:33:01
going to ask is that the driver of of these vehicles come forward right you know if you were if you were at Lane
00:33:08
Bryant around this time and this is your car come forward we just want to talk to
00:33:11
you see if you saw anything even if you think it's nothing we want to know what you know I find one thing a little
00:33:17
interesting here though if you listen to early reports it states that police are looking for
00:33:24
the driver of the small black SUV as well as the black sedan then if you fast forward like months later
00:33:34
they seem to still be looking for the driver of the small black SUV but we don't we don't hear them outwardly
00:33:41
asking for the driver of the black sedan to come forward so I don't know if that
00:33:45
means that that person has come forward identified themselves told them what they know and it's nothing and they want
00:33:50
their identity to remain anonymous it's generally believed that the driver of the SUV could be our suspect yeah and
00:34:01
I've seen on several sites we talked specifically about the Reddit site where they did name
00:34:08
um several possible models makes and models of that SUV that's how bad the footage is that being a Honda or a Kia
00:34:18
possibly a Toyota I I've not been able to find where police have stated we believe it was this make this model this
00:34:27
year nowhere could I find that so for purposes of staying on task I think that we can continue to report that it is a
00:34:36
small black SUV that is in question and again it seems to be that out of these two vehicles it's believed that the
00:34:43
suspect might have been in that fleeing the scene in that small black SUV well what's important about this is if you
00:34:50
knew about this case lived in the area if there was somebody that you possibly suspected could have done this then you
00:34:57
kind of reverse engineer it did they have a black SUV a small black SUV that they would be able to use now one thing
00:35:06
I also want to point out there that we heard in an earlier clip today that we use for today's trailer the start of the
00:35:12
show was that you heard the reporter stating that 10 years on the 10-year anniversary
00:35:18
of this case uh of the shooting at Lane Bryant and it being unsolved now for 10 years that police released a 3D
00:35:26
composite sketch of our suspect and I like this Captain because to me when I look at this 3D version and if if
00:35:34
anybody of anybody out there is familiar with this case and hasn't done any internet sleuthing on it in a while I
00:35:41
beg you to get on your computers on your tablet and check some stuff out because
00:35:45
that 3D image is one it's very haunting you almost feel like you're staring directly at the face of the person that
00:35:52
did this that's how detailed it looks to me and put that on the website and Instagram Twitter Facebook all that
00:35:59
stuff and to the original composite sketch I felt was pretty General it didn't I don't felt like it gave me a
00:36:07
good sense of what I should be looking for who I should be looking for as where the the detailed 3D account was much
00:36:15
better for that well I feel like we've covered a lot do you have any questions that you think we should go over well
00:36:22
that's a big part of the frustration regarding this case yes I do feel like we've covered a lot I feel like we've
00:36:29
answered some questions however I feel like there's a lot of questions out there and again I know we we say this a
00:36:35
lot we sound like a broken record we understand that the investigation has to hold some things back I feel like there
00:36:43
are a few items out there that could really help especially after 10 years when you're really asking the public to
00:36:49
come forward and help you out with this situation yeah and the sketch will help but it would be nice if there's some
00:36:55
other piece of information that they could give us well and that that's what I mean here and I wonder if you know
00:37:02
what are they holding on to is what they've released is that just the tip of the iceberg I mean they've released what
00:37:09
they believe to be a 3D composite sketch of the suspect right they've released video footage of a possible suspect
00:37:17
vehicle we've also heard Snippets of the 9-1-1 call where you can kind of hear the
00:37:24
suspect in the background shouting or yelling or or communicating with the hostages right the some things that I
00:37:31
call in a question here though is we we get a nice good description of what the suspect was wearing that day even down
00:37:39
to the point of the potential thought there might have been uh some type of packaging tape or duct tape in the
00:37:45
suspect's coat pocket possible that the suspect had manicured fingernails but the weird thing here is we we also
00:37:54
hear that the suspect may have left behind a baseball cap if that's the case can we just say for
00:38:02
sure if that happened and two can we see what that thing looked like that team wasn't right or or well actually I I say
00:38:10
baseball cap as a general term um and I think it's been reported that way but it could just be some kind of
00:38:16
hat right a baseball style hat right um so maybe no team on it but it could be a company could be any there's a lot
00:38:24
of indicators on there that could help get you to the conclusion of the identity of this person you know people
00:38:31
can recognize an article of clothing just as well as they can a grainy via surveillance footage of a vehicle or a
00:38:40
possible composite sketch of the actual suspect was there in fact the hat that was left behind if so what does it look
00:38:47
like I would love you know I would love if they would release pictures of that the other item too
00:38:53
I I wish that forget the DNA I'm gonna get over the DNA we don't need to know if they have
00:39:00
DNA or not they can they can handle that portion of it but I think these things are a little more simpler that I have
00:39:06
glad you're going to let them handle that I'm going to let I'm going to let that go but here's the other thing the
00:39:11
possibility that the suspect remember we said that he was using the ruse of some
00:39:16
type of delivery and he had papers with him that were supposed to be a part of that delivery well here's my guess I'm
00:39:25
guessing that you know these women that were at the store these are not dumb ladies there was something on those
00:39:31
papers that that guy had and what I mean by that is that he's not going to be able to walk in there with some blank
00:39:37
pieces of paper or something that has nothing to do with anything at all and just be able to go hey I'm here to do
00:39:45
this delivery my name's Joe you know in in in Rhoda and these other ladies fall for it
00:39:51
she was doing preventative measures to call another store thinking that there was a potential mix-up in some kind of
00:39:59
delivery now yes he could have likely found some pieces of paper somewhere that looked like they're from a delivery
00:40:04
he could have grabbed an invoice from somewhere else but what I'm getting at is there was enough
00:40:11
information on those pieces of paper that he was carrying with him and there's many reports that state that he
00:40:19
left those at the scene that the police recovered those right at the very least could we find out when do they still
00:40:25
exist and B what was printed on those papers is there anything on those papers that
00:40:31
would provide any type of information that could lead us to a potential suspect meaning why all these years
00:40:38
later haven't these papers been released to the public to help with this investigation and it could be something
00:40:45
as simple as these were papers that this person took from where they worked they
00:40:49
took them out of somebody's car just like the baseball hat there's there's a million ways that somebody can see
00:40:56
something somebody can see the right information and piece it together and you get that
00:41:01
phone call you get that tip that you need you're you're wearing me out man I'm wearing you out uh you just
00:41:09
you're so uh uh passionate well the thing here's the thing we've seen plenty of cases where we're sitting there 15 20
00:41:18
25 years later and they're like oh yeah okay we have this piece of information we have this piece of evidence we've
00:41:25
been holding on to it since day one let us show you the general public this now and ask for your help about it now and
00:41:34
at some point it gets to be too late right it just get I don't want to be sitting here 20 years from now and
00:41:39
they're like here's here's the papers here's the ball cap tell us what you think yeah
00:41:44
yeah so what do you think on this case as far as a suspect goes let me let me go go through this one at a time here I
00:41:51
only got two things to go through yeah okay so one before the other but the first one is the K the case is very
00:41:59
strange to me in the sense that it seems like a strange Target unless this person
00:42:05
was just looking for a few hundred dollars but to me that that would be like a smash and grab that would be like
00:42:13
get in there create as little chaos as possible yeah get your 200 300 and then get the hell out of there that's not
00:42:21
what happened in this situation for some reason this person decided that they needed to take these
00:42:28
individuals to the back room what is what is reported as a an employee break room in the back
00:42:34
which seems like a strange place to me I thought I thought with the ruse of the delivery that you're trying to work one
00:42:41
of two angles either a you're trying to get into the store before it opens up where either you think that there's more
00:42:47
money involved in the robbery or where you won't have to encounter any customers
00:42:53
so if you're not if you're not using it to do that and he was aware that the store was open then the only other
00:43:00
reason for using the ruse of of a delivery is to maybe work your way into the back parts of the store into the
00:43:07
office of the store without causing a commotion out in the storefront you know on the floor as they say
00:43:15
maybe that's what he was using these papers for but it seems like a strange Target to me it's strange it seems like
00:43:22
a strange way to carry out a crime the other thing too is if you worked your way back to the office using those
00:43:29
papers it sounds to me the additional customers came in later while this robbery was in
00:43:37
progress so he took time out from what he was doing to go and capture these two individuals take them to the same
00:43:44
location and bind them as well it sounds to me like we have a situation I don't I don't know why he was in that
00:43:53
store for as long as he was the the sexual why he would rob a store like that anyways well in the sexual
00:44:01
component to this is very weird as well now I know it's not terribly uncommon for for an offender to fondle one of the
00:44:09
hostages or say weird sexual things to one of the hostages I know it's not terribly uncommon but it seems odd to me
00:44:18
that this individual picked Elaine Bryant store where you might expect to find nothing but females there right and
00:44:27
then that sexual aspect occurred if if money was the thing why aren't you just getting your money and getting the hell
00:44:33
out of there yeah it could be sexually motivated and then the 911 call 9-1-1 call was placed
00:44:40
that spooked him they had to get out of there or this person's incredibly unstable
00:44:45
because it it's Ah that's what I think it's it's either there's a sexual component to it or this person got in
00:44:53
there didn't really know what they were doing started losing control fast or got
00:44:58
angry because whatever or however much money they thought they would get they didn't get and they got angry at the
00:45:05
hostages and then like you said now they're already angered and then they find out about the 911 call they Panic
00:45:11
or they're angered more and they're going to take out that anger on all of those women there now my theories on who
00:45:18
this person is they're not super detailed um but my gut tells me that this person
00:45:24
is not local to Tinley Park in any way the the 2010 demographics of the area it would have been
00:45:34
88.8 Caucasian 3.7 percent African-American and 3.9 percent Asian so just playing the
00:45:42
numbers there would tell me that this individual might not be local to the area plus I also do not think that it's
00:45:50
any coincidence that the Interstate 80 is right there right there by the scene right by the store he could have walked
00:45:58
into any store that he wanted he chose that store for a specific reason I also believe
00:46:05
that this was not the first time this was this may be the only time this man was ever in this Lane Bryant store
00:46:12
meaning he didn't case the joint in advance for this robbery and I have two points
00:46:19
to this thought one the guy walks in and it's thought that he was looking at the
00:46:24
ceiling looking for cameras and two the surviving witness who worked at the store
00:46:31
you know this the majority of the time the Super majority of the time the clientele is
00:46:38
strictly female at this store not male and so it's possible that if this man had been in the store before that he
00:46:44
might have stood out in some form that may have been memorable to her right and she doesn't there's we don't have any
00:46:51
evidence that she has seen this person before the day so that that's my only thoughts on it that
00:46:57
the guy probably wasn't local and I do believe that was his first and only time in that store all right
00:47:06
is that your thought done that's as much as I have okay well you keep saying he and I'm gonna
00:47:13
keep saying she I believe that this is a female I believe that the surviving witness did
00:47:21
not get a good enough look at this individual um I think maybe she heard this individual
00:47:28
and it was maybe of a more of a male tone to begin with and so that's she's assuming she saw a man
00:47:37
that's just what my gut is telling me that's also what my ears are telling me when I listen back and if that is the
00:47:43
suspect on that 9-1-1 call to me that sounds like a female why I think it's more of a
00:47:52
you know Superbikes type thing where this individual she went into this Lane Bryant at some
00:48:01
point she you know had bad service something I don't think the motivation was to rob
00:48:09
the store I think the motivation was some type of Revenge and that's why let's gather up
00:48:15
all these people and let's put them in the back and let's duct tape them I don't know how long the person thought
00:48:21
they were going to be in there for but I think once that 911 call went out and she saw it she killed all the people and
00:48:29
then she left and I think she left in the small black SUV and most men I would you know maybe this
00:48:37
is sexist on some level but it's like most men will drive bigger SUVs women will
00:48:43
drive smaller SUVs so that's and the manicured fingernails that would make that make sense and there's just little
00:48:52
things that are really hard to explain in this case but they start making a little more sense like the cornrows with
00:48:58
the braid in front starts making a little more sense when you go well that's that's more of the way a
00:49:05
female would do their hair so that's just what my gut is telling me and that's what my ears are telling me
00:49:12
and I think it was something like where the person felt wronged and they were going to prove a point you know or
00:49:17
they're going to kill people I mean this this person is psycho well and that's that's what I mean and I'm you know I'm
00:49:24
sticking with my thoughts but that's what I mean and I like that you bring up the super bike case that we've covered
00:49:31
here because that was really when once that thing was solved you're like holy [ __ ] this whole time the motivation
00:49:40
would make no for this murders in this crime would make zero sense to anybody but the person that perpetrated the
00:49:46
crime right and the biggest problem I have with this Lane Bryant case is why if they were there to Rob why did they
00:49:54
stay in the store for so long 40 minutes is a long time when you're trying to rob
00:49:58
the store especially that's why the the phone call from the manager to another store would be important to me because
00:50:04
if 25 minutes of that was this quote-unquote delivery person just standing around waiting for information
00:50:11
right then then 40 minutes doesn't seem so long but if that phone call happened within minutes of that individual
00:50:17
walking into the store this person stayed in this store for an incredibly amount of long amount of time right and
00:50:24
furthermore here's what you wonder on your part if this was a Revenge killing or if this was for reasons we
00:50:32
will never understand then how long did this individual intend on staying in the store was it only the
00:50:40
9-1-1 call that stopped them from staying who's to say this person wouldn't have stayed in there as long as
00:50:45
possible and kept picking off the right individuals as they come in each customer comes in they are quickly
00:50:51
escorted to the back room they're bound and they become another hostage so I I like where you're thinking is the
00:50:59
other thing too with the surviving Witness it may have in a hyper panic situation
00:51:05
like this it may have simply been enough that if a female offender was wearing Male clothing right that might have
00:51:13
thrown her off and she might fully believe that she saw a male when in fact it was a female all right so I guess I'm
00:51:22
right you're not right but it's my birthday so I'm right no I I don't think you're wrong I'm just not changing my
00:51:29
opinion but you're just not gonna say I'm right here we go Captain So speaking of females this week's recommended
00:51:34
reading we are recommending hell's princess The Mystery of belgunis the Butcher of men by Harold Schechter and
00:51:42
I've mentioned his name before on this fabulous show that we do I've also recommended his books before Harold
00:51:49
Schechter is one hell of an author and one of the best researchers out there so I recommend that you pick up hell's
00:51:55
princess this is the definitive rendering of one of the most brutal of all females serial killers this book had
00:52:03
me on the edge of my seat into the last page so check out Harold schechter's new
00:52:08
book Hell's princess and if you're ever looking for good true crime books to read make sure you go to our website
00:52:15
True Crime garage.com because we do have the recommended page and there's a list
00:52:20
yes and for everything True Crime Check out true crime garage.com and for all of
00:52:25
our garage friends out there that are on social media you can follow us at True Crime garage if you are following make
00:52:33
sure you wish the captain a very happy birthday oh happy birthday to you Colonel until next time friends be good
00:52:40
be kind and don't litter [Music] thank you [Applause] [Music]