00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details dreaming of
00:00:31
overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've
00:00:38
tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are gamechangers dive into 25
00:00:45
Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime
00:00:52
membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save 50%
00:01:09
[Music] [Applause] % welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:47
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who plays golf just like John Daly on a bender he
00:01:54
is the captain some athletes take a pre-workout some athletes do cocaine it's good to be seen and it's good to
00:02:01
see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking apocalypse
00:02:12
Cow by the hardworking artist over three Floyd's Brewing that's right they are beer artists my friend garage grade 4
00:02:19
and A2 bottle caps out of five Three Floyds stuck to their guns and they brewed a beer that is not normal this is
00:02:25
a complex double IPA with intense Citrus and floral Hopper Aroma but balanced with a velody malt body apocalypse cow
00:02:33
was brought to us by these awesome cowg girls and Cowboys first up we have Matthew in Parts Unknown and we also
00:02:40
have Nikki in Parts Unknown yeah and just a note to Matthew your VHS tapes they're past do your rental is past du
00:02:48
my friend you need to bring back those tapes next up we have Jenny and John in Los Angeles California and a big shout
00:02:55
out to Jessica and San Raymond California we also have Molly and helper you Utah and last but not least a big
00:03:01
thank you to Lindsay and isqua Washington all right a big shout out to everybody thanks for donating thanks for
00:03:08
keeping the lights on we like your gym yeah thanks for the apocalypse cow if you want to buy us around for next
00:03:13
week's show go to True Crime garage.com and click on the Donate button yeah and while you're on the website check on the
00:03:19
merch page we have a few of the team Nick tank tops left we're going to be doing a pre-order really soon for the
00:03:25
douche canoe shirt so check that out it'll be the last time I do a pre-order for douche canoe shirts for at least the
00:03:31
next year all right that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a
00:03:35
chair grab a beer grab a canoe let's talk some true [Music] crime [Music] [Applause]
00:04:18
[Music] [Music] life is full of tiny little moments in the long run some of them matter and
00:04:48
some of them don't in the end most of those tiny little moments are forgotten because
00:04:54
most of the time it's just another ordinary day Tuesday July 9th 1959 should have been just another
00:05:04
ordinary day full of tiny forgettable moments but it wasn't because a little girl went
00:05:14
missing and 2 days later her body is found she had been brutally murdered there are so many questions
00:05:24
about that now Infamous day so many tiny moments that if some of them maybe just one were different then
00:05:35
that little girl might still be [Music] alive what if a teenage boy didn't ride his bike to the schoolyard that
00:05:52
evening what if that little girl didn't have an argument with her parents at the
00:05:56
dinner table what if she didn't ask that boy for a ride what if he had turned her down and
00:06:08
just went off by himself to play with his friends would she still be [Music] [Applause]
00:06:24
[Music] alive Lyn Harper was born to lesie and Shirley Harper on August 31st 1946 in New Brunswick Canada her real
00:06:46
name is Cheryl but she goes by Lynn she is the middle child with an older brother Barry and an older brother
00:06:53
Jeffrey her father lesie joined the military and the family relocated to the rcaf base in Clinton in
00:07:02
1957 Lynn is a socially active child spending much of her time in the Girl Guides uh that's like the girl scouts or
00:07:10
what do they call that the brownie Scouts MH uh and she attended Sunday school as well now the rcaf base is an
00:07:18
Air Force Base uh which is actually just a little south of Clinton which is in Ontario now in 1959 Lynn is in the
00:07:28
seventh grade at the air Vice Marshall Hugh Campbell school I wonder what kind of sport teams that school had back then
00:07:35
can't you just picture air Vice Marshall Hugh Campbell school on a on a little kid's team jersey anyway she is in the
00:07:43
seventh grade but this is one of those split classes so this is a 7th sl8 grade shared class one of Lynn's classmates is
00:07:52
14-year-old eighth grader Steven Truscott now Steven is a popular athletic kid uh he spends a lot of time
00:08:00
playing at the river which is nearby this is a popular spot for all of the kids in the area you know they would go
00:08:06
swimming fishing there's there's plenty of things to do down at the river it's very similar when you think about it if
00:08:13
you watch the first it Stephen King's It you know the time period that this case
00:08:18
is based in and the time period that when they're children it's based in and how those children would go down to the
00:08:24
river and play and you know create a dam and all that stuff on Tuesday June 9th 1959 Lenn Harper came home from school
00:08:33
and she got into an argument with her parents she then went to her Girl Guides brownies meeting MH um at around 700
00:08:42
p.m. she sees Steven Truscott in the schoolyard now Lynn asked Stephen what is he doing well he says he's going to
00:08:50
go down to the river to see if there are any other kids there Lynn asked if he would take her to the highway uh Steven
00:08:58
has a bike with him and she wants a ride he says of course I'm going down that way anyway so yeah I will take you she
00:09:06
asked even Truscott for a ride to the highway so she could visit a farm to see some ponies uh this is what Lynn called
00:09:13
or referred to as the White House Down on Highway 8 uh this is a farm with animals but more importantly to Lynn
00:09:21
with with these ponies that she wants to see mhm so Steven Truscott gave her a ride on the handlebars of his bike down
00:09:29
the gravel road well what's going to be very important in this case is to be able to visualize U this scene so just
00:09:36
think of it as a straight line and at the bottom of that straight line we're going to have the school mhm you go up a
00:09:43
little bit further you're going to have the area that we're going to call the bush that bush is going to be on the the
00:09:49
right side and when we talk about Bush it's a it's a little dirt road that leads off into the brush right yeah like
00:09:55
a wooded area so you have the school you have have the bush right go a little bit
00:10:01
further on that straight line and you will have a bridge that passes over the water that's the water that stepen is
00:10:09
talking about mm go a little bit further on that straight line and that runs to a
00:10:13
stop sign and that is going to be highway or State Route 8 yes so we have now we have uh Lynn on the handlebars
00:10:23
riding on Steven's bike he's pedaling along this is when Lynn tells Steven about the argu that she got into with
00:10:30
her parents that took place at dinner time um they pass a wooded area that the captain mentioned which is known to the
00:10:39
kids in the area as farmer Lawson's Bush farmer Lawson owned a big farm in this area and that's what they called this
00:10:46
little wooded area that's off this dirt road well what's this argument about uh I'm unclear about what this argument is
00:10:53
about and it I mean she's in seventh grade it it could be something silly she came home late from school or you know a
00:11:01
carryover from some some former disagreement that they've had yeah um it doesn't sound like this I think if this
00:11:09
argument was more of a big deal we would know more about it yeah or if it was more significant to the actual case MH
00:11:17
well they pass that area known as farmer Lawson's Bush and then they go over the
00:11:21
bridge so Lynn rode on his bike on Steven's bike for about 1 2 km so it's like 3/4 of a mile roughly okay all
00:11:33
right so she rode on the handlebars on a gravel road probably not too comfy you know what I mean yeah but this is back
00:11:40
you know again in the ' 50s they had the big swooping handlebar so it's really easy to kind of sit somebody in the
00:11:46
middle of those handlebars mhm and then then you'd pedal along but but this also
00:11:52
makes you know obviously their presence to be a lot bigger cuz you now have two individuals on the bike yeah and trying
00:11:58
to to visualize this like the captain said it's very important so by this point they've left the schoolyard they
00:12:04
go past the wooded area known as Lawson's Bush and they've gone over the bridge now they're making their way
00:12:10
toward that intersection with the Highway 8 mhm um this is where uh Lynn asked Steven to let her off of the bike
00:12:20
um he says that she said she would hitchhike the rest of the way um the farm is less than half of a kilometer
00:12:28
away from this drop off point so Steven lets her off of the bike and he turns his old bike around and he heads back
00:12:36
into uh Town quote unquote Town well in worst case scenario she'll just walk the
00:12:41
rest of the way mhm so Stephen he did however stop his bike he stopped his bike on the bridge when he was returning
00:12:49
and he sees some kids playing in the river there MH uh while he's standing on the bridge he turns and he looks back at
00:12:56
the highway and he sees Lynn getting into a car yeah he's going to see Lynn get into a Chevy and what's kind of odd
00:13:04
about this is uh you know back in the day especially in the ' 50s that you'd have very uh unique um bumpers and and
00:13:12
headlights and tail lights and all that stuff so he sees kind of a unique tail light kind of looks like big eyes but
00:13:18
the other thing that's kind of interesting here is that Steven sees some kind of orange object that's on the
00:13:24
car like maybe a bumper sticker or something like that yeah it's often reported that this would have been a
00:13:29
yellow or orange license plate or possibly an orange or yellow bumper sticker at 1120 p.m. that night Lynn's
00:13:38
father lesie reported his daughter as missing now at some point he must have heard through the grape vine that the
00:13:47
the two kids were spotted together by other neighborhood kids at some point that evening because there are reports
00:13:54
that he went to Steven truscott's house and asked him about you know where he had last seen his daughter has he heard
00:14:01
from her you know he's he's out looking the neighborhood for his daughter right um it's it's not reported what they
00:14:10
actually spoke about what what Stephen he's only 14 spoke with Lyn's father about that evening um I would imagine
00:14:18
that that he's probably hearing a similar story to what we just heard uh that he' last seen her getting into a
00:14:25
car at Highway 8 um one thing that we should kind of underline here before we go much further is that he says he saw
00:14:35
Lynn getting into a car he doesn't say that he saw her being pulled into a car um and I think that's going to be
00:14:42
something that is key now the next morning on June 10th at around 9:30 a.m. uh 14-year-old Steven trusa is pulled
00:14:51
from his class and he's asked to sit in a police cruiser where he will be interviewed uh this is Con conable Hobs
00:15:00
yeah yeah after last week we have another officer Hobs right yeah um anyway very popular yeah anyway he when
00:15:08
asked about their trip to go see the pony Steven tells the officer that he gave her the ride he let her off of his
00:15:15
bike at the intersection just like we had said on his way back he sees her getting into a car and Stephen just like
00:15:22
the captain said gets a good description of this vehicle and um there there are a
00:15:28
couple versions of this description anyway they're not too far off from one another so I'll let you be the judge of
00:15:34
how good of the description is but one report says Steven said that he saw a gray 1959 Chevrolet possibly a belir
00:15:44
with either that yellow or orange license plat or yellow or orange bumper sticker another says that he saw a late
00:15:51
model Chevrolet possibly a belir with a lot of Chrome on it mhm um I'm I'm guessing the reason for more than one
00:15:59
report is as we're going to see here Steven is going to be asked what happened to Lynn many times by several
00:16:06
different officers and several different people uh so I think we should be clear
00:16:11
here this is not a situation of what I believe where step is changing his story um I I think this is those are both
00:16:20
those are both descriptions that sound very like one another well and like we were saying and kind of what we LED on
00:16:27
to in the trailer was you know you're not expecting her to go missing mhm so you you know how much
00:16:34
details are you paying attention to you see a car you kind of remember this you remember that you know especially in
00:16:41
banking you know we had to take tests all the time on you know watching robberies and then they'd ask us
00:16:48
questions about the robbery afterwards so we could kind of train oursel for when if or if we ever got robbed uh what
00:16:56
we could remember mhm and it always changes and again that's when you're being you know you'd mess up the little
00:17:03
tiny things and that's when you know that there's a test so so you got to assume that there's going to be some
00:17:08
things messed up CU obviously Stephen didn't know there was going to be a test well the other thing too Captain is your
00:17:15
answer could change depending on whom you're speaking with because I mean think about it this way if if I'm 14
00:17:22
years old and somebody asked me about the vehicle I saw okay I saw her getting into a 59 Chevrolet probably a belir mhm
00:17:30
well are you sure it was a 59 you do you really want to do we want to say that it
00:17:35
was a 59 or do we want to say that it was a newer car right Chevrolet oh yeah yeah it was a newer one um so I think
00:17:44
that's where we have these little discrepancies here um now the this should be a really good possible lead
00:17:52
here right um the the other thing is that at some point step gives them a plate number uh he he got a plate number
00:18:01
off of the car the the problem with this is the plate number doesn't really go anywhere um they're able to check the
00:18:09
number that he reports to them they're not able to you know this could be one of several different things okay one
00:18:16
either that plate number didn't actually exist you know when they punched it into
00:18:21
the system right or two if it did exist it didn't have a matching car uh that that went along Ong with that that plate
00:18:29
as far as his description goes the other thing too is it's very likely that if a
00:18:34
plate of that number existed it could have been somebody from you know far away or out of the area my suspicion on
00:18:42
this is that that plate number was completely fabricated by Steven or right fabricated or or wrong you know
00:18:51
misremembered yeah but I think at the end of the day too it's like you know State Route 8 you have State Route 8 and
00:18:57
then you have the bridge and if you're sitting at that bridge and you're looking towards State Route 8 that's a
00:19:02
pretty far distance mhm and so uh you know the the police actually speculated that maybe he couldn't even make out
00:19:09
what kind of car it would be so then you're going to tell me if you if you could barely make out the car you're
00:19:15
going to be able to make out a license plate I think this was a lot of questioning by authority figures to a
00:19:20
14-year-old scared boy uh and they're leading him and then he was like oh I'll just make up a number and we'll see what
00:19:27
happens well and you're exactly right here Captain because if if the if the kid can't even tell you if it's a if it's a
00:19:35
license plate or a bumper sticker that he's seeing how is he seeing any numbers on that plate so as law enforcement is
00:19:42
retracing Lynn's steps you know talking with step they go back to the the fight with the parents that night and then
00:19:49
they start suspecting that maybe she ran away right yeah they they think they're
00:19:53
probably looking for a runaway situation here but on Thursday the military organized a search party and on that day
00:20:02
they end up finding Lynn they found Lynn dead um so they find her in that Lawson's bush area that wooded area we
00:20:10
we spoke of she is laying there almost nude she has been brutally raped and strangled uh with her blouse somebody
00:20:18
used her blouse to strangle her they find blood on her and around her there is a cut on her leg um she had one arm
00:20:27
kind of of up and out and the other one resting on her chest so she's only wearing her bloodied undershirt and of
00:20:37
course the the blouse is tied around her neck but there's some peculiar things here because her her
00:20:44
shoes and other clothing they are neatly laid next to her so the shoes are neatly
00:20:51
placed next to her her socks are together like paired and rolled up um the zipper on her shorts was even zipped
00:21:00
up mhm the she had a necklace there was a necklace that she was wearing that they found hanging on a fence uh nearby
00:21:08
her body MH and her killer has placed three small branches on top of her body there are also some interesting go
00:21:18
ahead hold on so what is the suspicion here is it that she was raped and murdered in the bush
00:21:26
or was she raped and murdered somewhere else uh at a different location and then
00:21:31
place there cuz to me it seems like if you're if you're going to place the body and then beside it you're placing the
00:21:38
the clothes nice and neatly folded that's pretty strange it's very strange first of all um but the theory
00:21:48
here the thought is and I can only go off of what the inspectors were saying at the time MH um they said that they
00:21:56
believe she was raped and killed killed in the same location that she was found um again do they give a reason why
00:22:04
they believe that though well I'm guessing here Captain but the statement of them finding blood on her and around
00:22:10
her I'm guessing is what would lead one to cause that she believe that she got that injury that caused her to bleed at
00:22:19
that location um and there was probably some other indications that she would have
00:22:24
been attacked and killed there yeah and I think those are all probably good reasons to believe the only reason why I
00:22:30
question it and then maybe also start questioning the time of death and we'll get to the that a little bit later but
00:22:37
that this is a secluded area but it's not super secluded it's just right off the road and we also have plenty of
00:22:43
eyewitnesses that we'll get to later that were on that road that day and during this time period that the law law
00:22:50
enforcement is going to claim that she was murdered or that the this attack took place right so it's kind of
00:22:58
suspicious there so if if in fact she is killed at this location um then the this
00:23:04
means that the killer took the time to straighten up her clothing basically you know um kind of laying it out neatly
00:23:13
I've almost I've heard one person say that it was like almost folded you know like like somebody would when you lay
00:23:18
out clothes um I I don't know this to be true that's just one report that I heard
00:23:24
but hearing that the socks were rolled up like paired and rolled up together and then that's how I fold my socks and
00:23:30
then the thought is that the zipper on the shorts possibly was that the killer zipped the shorts back up before folding
00:23:38
them up and laying them neatly next to her well my hunch would that would be that the rape took place somewhere else
00:23:45
mhm maybe the murder took place in this area but we're talking about you know if
00:23:50
the motivation which based on the evidence the motivation for this murder would have been for the sexual assault
00:23:57
for the rape M then you would assume that this individual wouldn't want to hurry that process so I I'm just my
00:24:04
hunch is that it took place somewhere else and then um um moved her there but maybe murdered her there which doesn't
00:24:12
have to be a building or anything it could be or any type of structure it could be the vehicle that she was seen
00:24:18
getting into now and I want to kind of stress something else here too you know I I purposely said that the killer
00:24:23
placed three small small branches on top of her body because when I first heard this report I thought well that that
00:24:33
almost sounds to me like somebody trying to hide the body trying to cover something up I've seen pictures of these
00:24:39
branches and that was definitely not the the purpose of placing these on top of her okay um they were considerably
00:24:48
smaller than her from what I've seen and it it just it to me it it means it means
00:24:55
something but it but it it might mean the same weirdness that the clothing meant if that makes sense um you know
00:25:04
not trying could have been done in a state of panic or something where there the person's now not thinking clearly
00:25:10
and then they're like oh well this will this will cover up and it's like no that's those are small branches there
00:25:17
are some interesting tracks in the area of the body um and I and I want to stress that as well in the area of that
00:25:24
the body was found um it's not clear to me with certain tracks with the exception of these Footprints of how
00:25:32
close these tracks were located to where they actually found her body like the captain said you know you could access
00:25:38
this wooded area you could drive up on a car or a bike to this area but at some point you're not going to be able to
00:25:44
drive into this wooded bush area um and and so you wouldn't expect to find these
00:25:50
tracks right next to her body uh but they did find a bike tire track leading the words are leading to the body um
00:25:59
there are footprints like I said now the the bike tire tracks are not right next
00:26:04
to the body but these Footprints are and um these marks measure about 10 to 11 in
00:26:12
they also find some uh vehicle tire tracks in the area as well I don't think this would be uncommon to find bicycle
00:26:21
or vehicle tire tracks in this area you know even if there wasn't a body there um now yeah well because especially once
00:26:30
you start getting to the eyewitness accounts you know going into the bush or hanging out in the bush is something
00:26:35
that kids did mhm so you know they would ride their bikes back there and that the
00:26:40
actual like dirt road that you went on or this Gravel Road that you went on I think it was like Loosely graveled like
00:26:46
mainly a dirt road but well we put a little gravel down on there um but I think this was a a road that was used by
00:26:54
cars too so again like you were saying very common that these tracks would be there so now the the property owner this
00:27:02
is Lawson farmer Lawson and his neighbor um they both come forward with the story
00:27:08
that they saw a vehicle with that they dubbed a strange vehicle on the property um sometime that night that's that's the
00:27:17
best they could narrow it down was sometime that night um possibly after dark and the description they have of
00:27:25
this vehicle is that it's a 50 2 possibly a 52 dark convertible possibly a Ford so not a very great description
00:27:35
there but again like the captain said and in kind of what we were leading to in the trailer
00:27:39
there this is supposed to be an ordinary day you might not notice you know you might not take note of a of a proper
00:27:47
vehicle description just by seeing a vehicle there somebody could use that that could be a place where people
00:27:53
frequently turn around in you know they figure out they're going the wrong way um under the cover of Darkness though I
00:28:00
tell you what Captain that to me does not look like a place that I would pick to turn around in um it doesn't seem but
00:28:07
it's the only place on that that road but it doesn't seem to stand out enough for me is what I'm saying if I were
00:28:12
traveling in the dark um I think that I we also have fields on on both sides so I think anytime you're on a country road
00:28:22
and you see a split in the field that's your chance to turn around there's so much to get into let's get into that
00:28:29
right after this quick beer break this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays
00:28:43
maybe you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
00:28:49
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
00:28:55
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
00:29:03
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:29:10
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
00:29:16
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:29:23
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com garag toay to get 10 % off your first month that's betterhelp
00:29:35
hp.com dreaming of overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the
00:29:42
language Gap I've tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are game
00:29:48
changers dive into 25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday
00:29:55
Sparkle grab a lifetime membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save
00:30:05
50% at Consumer Cellular you get the same exact coverage as the largest carriers but for up to half the cost
00:30:13
same thing up to half the cost up to half the cost for the same thing 50% the money for 100% the same thing I hope I'm
00:30:20
making myself clear Consumer Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888 half the cost savings
00:30:28
based on cost of consumer cellular single line 5 GB data plan with unlimited talk and text compared to
00:30:32
lowest cost single line postpaid unlimited talk text and data plan offered by T-Mobile and Verizon May
00:30:46
2023 all right we're back cheers mates and uh and a big happy birthday to the the colonel oh thank you C it's the
00:30:54
Colonel's birthday uh wait find him on untapped follow him follow his drinking Journey you can harass me on untapped
00:31:02
and and then tell him happy birthday he's he's uh 47 if I'm not on on there for a while for a couple days 49 he's 49
00:31:13
all right all right never mind enough of this all right Captain so 56 we have Harold Graham is a gentleman that is
00:31:21
brought in to head the investigation he is like a big shot you know they bring him in from out of the area to lead the
00:31:28
investigation he tells the officers um that they should be looking for a guy with obvious signs of injury mainly
00:31:37
looking for persons that may have scratches to the face hands and or arms um the thing here is that's what he
00:31:46
tells the officers to be looking for however that's not who they arrest and I'm going to jump ahead here a day um
00:31:54
because we we'll go back into some of these eyewitness accounts but I think we got to set this up properly and to do
00:32:01
that we got to explain that on June 12th uh shortly after 7 p.m. Steven Truscott
00:32:07
the 14-year-old that had given the ride to Young Lyn Harper he's taken into C into custody and at about 2:30 a.m. on
00:32:17
June 13th he was charged with first-degree murder yeah so he's questioned for how many hours um it's
00:32:24
about 7 hours yeah that's resp responsible let's question a 14-year-old that is probably scared out
00:32:31
of his mind with no parent present no lawyer present we're going to question this individual for seven hours and this
00:32:40
is also back in this is in in the 50s this is back when you were allowed to have leading questions now if you're
00:32:48
talking to a minor you can't lead the question does that make sense right there's laws against that you can't you
00:32:55
have to have them uh create this scenario not you create this so again they're probably creating this scenario
00:33:02
over and over well Stephen even though he's interviewed for or interrogated however you want to call it for seven
00:33:09
hours on that Friday night he he never confesses um but he does get close I will say that he becomes confused
00:33:18
towards the end of the questioning and at some point um he tells the police about five that he saw five boys
00:33:27
uh that he saw playing in the river um this is trying to solidify his story of you know I dropped her off I rode my
00:33:34
bike back to the bridge I stopped because I saw some kids I knew playing turned and saw her get into a car um
00:33:41
apparently he gets two of the boys wrong um but I think here still three out of five is pretty decent uh I I don't know
00:33:49
the distance that he saw these kids or if he just mistook two of them for other kids that he he went to a pretty small
00:33:56
school so he should know everybody's name but I mean how many times did you like run into somebody and you're like
00:34:02
well I I Know Jack and I know Timmy right M but these other two guys I'm not really for sure what their names are now
00:34:10
there's a note here regarding this this uh interrogation that says that at some point you know I said he became confused
00:34:18
but at some point Stephen tells a doctor um so apparently there were doctors present and we'll get into that more
00:34:24
here in a minute but at some point he tells a doct doctor present but no lawyer present that he may have molested
00:34:31
the girl that he may have molested Lynn Harper but he couldn't remember um yeah I don't know what to
00:34:38
make of this because I wasn't in that room he's 14 years old and he's been he's been interviewed and interrogated
00:34:44
for hours by this point well you have to question if he even said that or did they put that on a piece of paper and he
00:34:51
signed his name to it and he you know so picture this we have him being asked all
00:34:57
these questions tell us your story tell us your story again tell us your story again and then an officer leaves and
00:35:03
another one comes in ask him the same questions tell us your story tell us your story
00:35:08
again you know I I I'm I'm standing up for the kid and saying that I can see how a 14-year-old would become confused
00:35:16
now regarding the doctor um yeah but for 7 hours though he stayed strong on his conviction that I I'm not responsible
00:35:25
for her disappearance I'm not responsible for her murder right you know I dropped her off at at State Route
00:35:31
8 and that's it mhm we didn't go in the bush right never happened and so yeah that's why this whole willy-nilly oh
00:35:40
well maybe maybe I molested her like no I I think that's all fabricated BS now after he's arrested he's like checked
00:35:50
for injury right they check his body for these injuries they're looking for somebody that may have had scrap matches
00:35:57
on them you know ass they got DNA you know and they have skin and claw marks they know that she put up a fight mhm so
00:36:06
and but now you're going to arrest and charge this individual that has no signs of that right and he doesn't have any
00:36:13
signs of that but he does have a strange um let's say injury um they two of the doctors report that he has two quarter
00:36:23
sized lesions on his penis um um the this okay well the strange thing here Captain is that well somebody he
00:36:34
just ruined somebody's lunch well they said that these injuries were you know a sign that he brutally raped the girl
00:36:44
that these were the were injuries caused by friction now the thing here is he's he's then uh checked out by a doctor the
00:36:54
following day yeah the from from the prison yeah and this doctor says he has no signs of injury on his entire body at
00:37:02
all and actually doesn't make any reference to these lesions on the on his penis um and I imagine this is something
00:37:10
that was supposed to be checked um regarding this um you know we would eventually get an answer for this Steven
00:37:17
triscott uh was said to have been suffering from some kind of skin uh disorder and he would get these
00:37:25
different lesions dermatitis or something like that that he was being treated by his family doctor for on a
00:37:33
number of occasions now the argument here is that uh you know I don't know if this uh you
00:37:41
know illness or whatever you want to call it affects the the gental right um that I don't know I I don't know that
00:37:50
Captain all I can state is that we have two doctors saying he has this thing uh has these injuries to to the penis and
00:37:58
one saying he doesn't I don't know he might have been a chronic pocket pool player you know I'm going to I'm going
00:38:04
to be honest here with everybody I don't know how to make heads or Tales of this
00:38:08
portion of the story I well look okay so maybe there was something there that they're blowing out of
00:38:16
proportion the third doctor didn't see it it's possible or this is just fictitious [ __ ] that they that they
00:38:24
made up and then the Third Doctor that is not on team let's pin somebody for this murder I'm just a doctor doing my
00:38:32
job in the prison I didn't see anything you know it's unlikely that these big lesions would get uh healed
00:38:40
within 24 hours mhm so again I think some of this stuff is just fictitious like him saying possibly that oh I
00:38:49
possibly molested her I look that could have just been made up too you know we're they're creating a narrative here
00:38:55
and that that is uh Dangerous Waters well they're working under a theory now they they've pieced together a theory
00:39:03
and the theory is this that that Steven triscott never made it to the bridge with with Lynn on his bike that before
00:39:12
they got to the bridge they veered off and they went into Harper's Bush and at some point he attacked raped and killed
00:39:19
the girl and left her body there that's the the very general basic theory that they're working under now we have
00:39:27
several eyewitnesses and there's going to be some problems with these eyewitnesses
00:39:33
because we have well first of all they're all children um and we know how this can work we've seen this in several
00:39:42
different situations are you calling children stupid yes they're all very stupid no I'm joking don't please don't
00:39:50
write to the show it's my birthday uh somebody's going to write in I can't believe the colonel called all children
00:39:57
stupid just most of them so we have and if you'd like to write into us that's a truecrimegarage gmail.com put it on the
00:40:04
blog so everybody can see how bad of a person I am the so here's the eyewitnesses right Captain let's go
00:40:10
through these first of all the one that looks pretty tough if you're in the if you're in the defense seat here is this
00:40:17
Joselyn gadet okay she is somebody that that goes to school with Steven Truscott
00:40:23
I believe she's 12 or 13 at this time okay um so she says that the day before the day before the um before ly Harper
00:40:34
went missing that Steven triscott tried to make up some kind of date with her you know let's let's book a date okay um
00:40:42
and this date ladies man was to go to Lawson's Bush uh maybe for you know a little make out session right uh this
00:40:52
was supposed to this was supposed to take place just before 6:00 p.m. the evening of of Lyn going missing mhm now
00:41:02
it's also reported that Steven triscott stopped by joselyn's house that night to
00:41:07
remind her of the date like hey don't forget yeah so the thought is that he doesn't end up having this date with
00:41:15
Joselyn he goes to the schoolyard that's where then Lynn ask him for the ride and
00:41:20
he's like oh Plan B I'll take Lynn Harper to the bush with me right I talker into this
00:41:29
um we got to kind of go through this in a in a in a strange way Captain because there's a lot of information that's
00:41:36
collected in the original investigation that will not come out until later and it'll be obvious for why
00:41:44
but I I while we're on each eyewitness I want to kind of go through them one at a
00:41:49
time and discuss everything that we know about their accounts so we have a full story cuz it'll get too confusing if we
00:41:55
discuss it lat later so there's some question as to the credibility of this Jing gadet story for several reasons
00:42:04
okay first of all the saying that Steven Tris got stopped by her house to remind
00:42:10
her of the date right um there's a big question if that even happened because stepen Truscott says that I didn't ask
00:42:17
her on a date I don't know what you're talking about right she wishes there she wishes I ask her out on a date yeah
00:42:24
there's some there's some things in the police notes that they would discover later that would would kind of state
00:42:30
that it's very unlikely that that situation happened that Sten triscott stopped by to remind her of the date
00:42:37
right um whether there was a date scheduled or not that isn't so much called into question other than Steven
00:42:44
saying that we didn't we didn't have a date scheduled now um she would later testify that she went to Lawson's Bush
00:42:51
to look for Steven and she also says that she went to look for Steven Trisa at Lawson's Farm mhm um again there's
00:43:00
some differ differing times on on on these things here yeah cuz when she goes to the farm it's not like she just
00:43:07
wanders around the farm she actually runs into the farmer yeah she talks to the farmer ask him if he's seen Steven
00:43:14
triscott um and then later after Steven triscott is arrested she goes back to the farmer because there's some
00:43:24
discrepancy in the time that what time was she there asking and looking for Steven triscott right and she asked the
00:43:33
farmer to you know what time did was I here oh well that's not the time I told them could you could you make it the
00:43:42
same time that I told them and he says no I can't do that I'm not going to do that so basically you
00:43:49
know this hussy can I call her h no you can't whatever she's she's making up stories
00:43:59
that some guy asked her out on a date right so we don't know if there was a date that's questionable mhm uh Stephen
00:44:07
says no she says yes there's actually some letter too that kind of goes back and forth on that one well the police
00:44:14
notes somewhere it's noted by one of the investigators that that that that didn't
00:44:19
happen right then the other thing is that he stopped by her house there's you know we're questioning that now now and
00:44:26
then she says well I went to the bush and this is what time I told the law enforcement M now if she was in that
00:44:33
bush and uh this attack was taking place wouldn't she see this individual right depending on what time
00:44:41
it was depending on what time and her time could be wrong she could have been looking for Steven at 6:00 remember
00:44:47
they're supposed to have this date at 6:00 I do believe that she's looking for Steven at some point that doesn't seem
00:44:53
to be a question because she the farmer backs up up that part of the story the problem is that what hour was she
00:45:00
actually out looking for Steven yeah and uh and this timing is going to come into
00:45:05
question and do you want to get into that now about the timing the the time of death yeah um yeah I guess we should
00:45:14
because it it might get confusing if we don't so it's pretty simple um based on what she ate mhm is how they figured out
00:45:23
the time frame now they figured out this time frame afterwards um basically once they
00:45:28
started trying to pin this onto Stephen they had to make sure that the murder took place within a certain time frame
00:45:36
right because Steven actually went somewhere that night yes and so he the murder would had to take place before he
00:45:45
actually went there so it's like before 7:45 I believe something like that yeah so well let's go through this real quick
00:45:50
so we have Lynn Harper who she left her home at 6:15 p.m. that night mhm and then she met Steven Truscott around 700
00:45:58
p.m. um you know this is a casual meeting bumped into him um and now that's at 700 p.m. Steven triscott was
00:46:07
seen back at the base around 8:00 p.m. and then back at home afterwards and was babysitting so the time of death here is
00:46:16
extremely crucial and very important because the time of death would you basically have an hour if Steven Trot is
00:46:24
your guy then then ly Harper needed to to have died between about 7:15 and 745 uh if she didn't die during that
00:46:35
time then Steven triscott could not have murdered her right and so what time do they claim that she died right so here's
00:46:42
here's where we go with this so time of death huge the reports were prepared by a Dr John peniston now peniston he his
00:46:50
opinion was based on his examination of Lynn's stomach contents during the autops y uh and the last the the time of
00:46:58
her last meal was reported at 5:45 p.m. on June 9th 1959 he told he would later tell the
00:47:07
jury that the stomach normally empties within 2 hours of eating and Lynn's stomach appeared to contain a full meal
00:47:15
meaning that she would have had to have died by 7:45 relying on these factors that
00:47:21
peniston provided to jurors with with his view that Lynn had died between 7:00 p.m. and 7:45 on June 9th uh this was a
00:47:30
time when Truscott he was admittedly in her company right you know so if Lynn was
00:47:37
dead by 745 then it's basically a matter of logic that Steven triscott killed her
00:47:44
yeah and so a couple problems with this though is like when like we said when Steven returns to the base does he act
00:47:50
strange no he doesn't act strange does he have attack marks on him no did the the doctors find attack marks on him no
00:47:58
uh so those are some issues there the other issue here is then when experts come out and say okay how much is this
00:48:07
you know what kind of scientific evidence is this I've seen several evidence or SE several experts now this
00:48:15
is kind of talked about a lot like in the John Ben Ramsey case right uh I actually thought there was more of a
00:48:22
science to this now to see these experts coming out and say well actually the only thing studying the stomach does is
00:48:31
really kind of tells you the last meal or what's in the stomach but it doesn't give you much of a timeline so for
00:48:39
example if you took this evidence now we're talking in the 50s this test was done doing this test now would give you
00:48:47
a window of about 12 hours so so techn technology is way more advanced now science way more advanced
00:48:57
now and you're going to give a time frame of about 12 hours well let's let's let's play along for now okay let's
00:49:05
pretend that that you're able to come up with that precise time of death a time of death that precise within a what I
00:49:12
say half an hour 45 minutes so that what that means then Captain is that if she died during that time Steven triscott
00:49:20
did it especially if we can prove that nobody saw the two of them together on the bridge or at Highway 8 because then
00:49:29
that means our theory is right that Steven triscott left with Lynn on his hand handlebars veered off into the the
00:49:37
bush area never made it to the bridge never made it to Highway 8 he attacks rapes and kills her there and then
00:49:44
returns back to the base on his bicycle right so now we have to get some people to say that uh you know he he wasn't
00:49:52
where he said he was he didn't drop her off like he he said he did so this is where we we enter a a character named
00:50:00
Butch George um he told another boy that he saw Steven triscott with Lynn in the
00:50:07
bush um he was not called at the trial though um because there seems to be some question as to his accountability his
00:50:18
credibility um because his story changes often now remember Joselyn gadet that we
00:50:23
just spoke about she says she bumped into Butch George on the road the night of the murder the night that she
00:50:30
disappeared and asked Butch if she had seen Steven triscott Butch says no uh Butch's story like I said would change
00:50:38
many times yeah part of that is just being a scared kid mhm at some point he does
00:50:44
tell law enforcement that he saw Steven Trisa on the bridge uh and then later was he also LED that well he he he says
00:50:54
he only said that because Steven triscott asked him to say that okay now we have Philip Burns this is this kid is
00:51:02
only 10 years old he's walking on the road this is the road where you know he should have seen Steven triscott and and
00:51:10
ly Harper traveling together he he's walking on this road just after 700 p.m. he says he never saw ly Harper never saw
00:51:20
Steven Trisa on the road at that time so police now believe believe that if they
00:51:26
were not on the road because of what Philip Burns says 10-year-old Philip Burns if they're not on the road at this
00:51:32
time it's because the boy didn't see them because they were in the bush at this time okay well now we have some
00:51:39
arguments against all of that at the river down at the river playing at the river remember the boys in the river we
00:51:46
have douge oats he says he saw the two of them on the bike mhm he sees ly Harper Steven
00:51:54
triscott on the bike like they cross the bridge they're heading toward Highway 8
00:52:00
is this the is douge close to the bridge or he's is he far away from the bridge um from my notes Here is that he's at
00:52:07
the river playing alongside the uh the bank there okay um I don't know how close he is to the river there's two
00:52:14
eyewitnesses two major eyewitnesses from the river right the one that's on the bank than the one that's further down in
00:52:21
the river fishing yes the one that the boy that's fishing in the river his name is Gordon Logan okay well let's stay on
00:52:27
douge douge oats that's a good rap name so douge oats says he saw the two of them on the bike cross the bridge head
00:52:35
toward Highway 8 MH so that backs up Steven triscott story we have Gordon Logan who says the same exact thing he
00:52:43
says he saw stepen triscott traveling uh going over the bridge and then later sees Steven triscott on his bike by
00:52:52
himself so this whole story matches up with Steven triscott the police don't like this story okay so you have Gordon
00:53:00
Logan who's further away from the bridge and they basically discredit Gordon Logan story because they say you know
00:53:07
what from that distance he wouldn't have been able to tell who's on the bike he wouldn't be able to you know discern if
00:53:14
it's uh Timmy or John or George or or buck you know he wouldn't be able to tell who was on that
00:53:21
bike regarding douge oats though their their state whether he's telling the truth is complete is a lot more strange
00:53:29
to me where they say you know what these boys are buddies with Stephen Truscott they're just kind of banning together
00:53:36
and they're going to have his back they're probably making up a story that they saw him with ly Harper past the
00:53:43
bridge right we can't believe this story of these kids saying that but let's go back to Philip burns the 10-year-old
00:53:50
who's walking alone on the road who says he doesn't see uh Steven triscott he doesn't see Lyn Harper we can believe
00:53:58
the 10-year-old but we're not going to believe these two boys that were in the river were playing by the river they're
00:54:04
believing whatever whatever individual tells them the story that they need to pin this on Steven that's that's what
00:54:12
they believe 10-year-old kid no watch look when I was 16 I couldn't tell you what time it was if I didn't have a
00:54:20
watch right or even close what time is it I now it's the okay so but here Captain I want to throw this out there
00:54:28
too though with this Philip Burns 10 years old walking by himself doesn't see them however we have other Witnesses
00:54:36
other children that say that they saw Philip Burns walking that they pass Philip Burns walking on the street that
00:54:44
they rode their bike past Philip Burns and he doesn't report having seen those children either so it's not that he
00:54:51
didn't see them so it didn't happen it's he didn't notice them they they could have very well no a bunch of people
00:54:57
though is what you're saying right he could these it's it's likely that these kids could have traveled past him on a
00:55:03
bike and he may not have seen them for whatever reason this kid was in his own world or past 20 people I didn't see any
00:55:10
I didn't see anything or Philip Burns is just confused about the whole situation
00:55:14
mhm or yeah again too the the difficult thing here for me is this happened on a Wednesday she went missing on a Tuesday
00:55:24
night okay so Tuesday but still you got the day before you have school the day before then you have the school the day
00:55:31
after because they don't find her body right away right so that you know we talk about this a lot with the Adon SED
00:55:37
case the qu you know there's so many conflicting stories because they question so much later but we're talking
00:55:43
about kids that are a lot younger a 10-year-old 12-year-old they're they're not going to remember what H if it
00:55:49
happened on a Monday a Tuesday or a Wednesday mhm you know what I mean so I think the cops just went hey well this
00:55:56
story fits our narrative so let's go with that and then I think they started doing this thing where they started
00:56:02
burying all the stuff that contradicted it mhm and and stop trying to do work and yes this horrible thing happened to
00:56:12
a very young individual a 12-year-old girl but you got to do your job you got to do your due diligence you or you are
00:56:22
um you are paid it's your duty to find Justice not just find anybody that you can pin it on
00:56:30
mhm the problem here though is there are issues with Steven triscott story 100% there's issues there and what I'm going
00:56:38
to do here Captain to kind of clean this up a bit because this thing's a mess I let's just start with the idea that he's
00:56:44
a 14-year-old boy there's going to be some again does he know the time look all he's trying to do is tell you what
00:56:51
he can remember mhm well to clean this up a bit I say we throw out all of these eyewitness accounts that's what I would
00:57:00
do I mean the good and the Bad and the Ugly all of them you got I think you got you have to throw them out I can't I
00:57:06
can't sit here and believe that he wasn't seen at a certain time and then have other people tell me that he was
00:57:12
seen it you can't pick one or the other you know it what only one of those versions work only one of them happened
00:57:20
I I don't to me I can't pick between the two so I think you throw them both out Well yeah if you look at his story it's
00:57:27
pretty simple I pick her up at the school we drive past the bush we drive past the bridge we stop at the stop sign
00:57:34
State Route 8 drop her off I drive I ride my bike back to the bridge by the time I'm back at the bridge looking at
00:57:42
people playing I look back I see her get into a car later on I go back to the base then I go to babysit that's his
00:57:52
story right right what are the obvious problems you see with that story though as an investigator I'm looking at this
00:57:58
thing and I have obvious problems with this young man's story I I don't have any problems with
00:58:05
that story but okay so my first issue is why does why does she all of a sudden went off the bike if the whole plan was
00:58:14
and this I call this into question a little bit too if you're almost to the destination why not just continue to to
00:58:22
receive the ride to the the destination point you know you're not very maybe she
00:58:28
felt bad for for you know asking for a ride you know to the complete thing when she knows that he's just going to good
00:58:36
play at the bridge mhm but that that's a big question we're talking about 12y old and 14y olds you
00:58:44
know what I mean no I know that I know that but not a lot of rhyme and reason here but I have to make heads or Tales
00:58:49
of this thing right so so first of all I have a problem with it seems like she we're going to this this predetermined
00:58:57
destination and then all of a sudden I need off the bike yeah but it's not clear what she asked for you're right
00:59:04
there you know because she could have just said hey can you take me to the stop sign yeah I'm going that way
00:59:08
anyways right and it's not that much further from the bridge right you know that's a lot different than can you take
00:59:15
me and you're going to ride your bike on a state route I mean I I don't know the
00:59:19
area that well but it seems like the the the road that they're on was less traveled than the State Route 8 so maybe
00:59:27
it was one of those things where it's like yeah well I can take you the stop sign but you know I really shouldn't be
00:59:32
riding my bike on this road yeah who knows but that's not clear so you can't sit there and say well I have a problem
00:59:38
with this because it's not clear but it's not clear from the beginning so it's not you know that there's nothing
00:59:44
nefarious going on with Steph's story there it's not clear what you're right but but that's I can have a problem with
00:59:52
it being unclear I perfectly can and I tell you but that that doesn't point to innocence or guilt well there is some
00:59:59
question as to if she wanted a ride to that specific location or if she just wanted to ride to the highway I'll give
01:00:06
you that much right but then we have the other strange statement of okay if she only wanted to ride to the highway then
01:00:13
then when I get you to that point why would you say I'll hitchhike the rest of the way it it just doesn't it doesn't
01:00:21
ring true to me it seems very odd for several reasons one is she going to hitchhike there and how's she going to
01:00:29
get back she's going to hitchhike on the way back yeah but I never heard that come from Stephen that you know that
01:00:34
those statements that I heard about the hitchhiking came from the law enforcement and I'd argue that you have
01:00:40
7 hours of interrogation you also have S hours of leading the witness you have seven hours of leading a 14-year-old kid
01:00:48
into a story that you want to hear so what did they write down what notes did they make what were corre what what
01:00:55
things were correct and what was not correct I mean you got two doctors saying that there's Legions on this
01:01:00
kid's penis and one doctor not even making references to it right you think this would be a big deal and there's
01:01:07
constantly things like so again so what what did the detectives write down of importance and and and then in their
01:01:15
notes what they wrote down was that actual statements from Steven were just [ __ ] that they're writing down on a
01:01:21
piece of paper mhm and the the other thing is what actually comes out in court you know because the pro a big
01:01:29
problem with this case is going to be that when they try Steven triscott back then the the prosecutors didn't have to
01:01:38
provide everything they didn't have to be fully disclose all of the information that they had collected throughout the
01:01:44
investigation to the defense team MH so what they're able to do is they're able to conduct their investigation collect
01:01:52
as much evidence as they can as much information as they can and they're able to sift through it and then say okay
01:01:59
you're preparing for your defense here's a portion of what we've collected and what we found along the way and you can
01:02:06
build your defense against that well you're right and so here's the story that we came up with this fits our
01:02:13
narrative the problem is is if you give the rest of the notes that the police officers had that
01:02:19
contradicts The Narrative period mhm so the cops should have said look look we we don't have a clear story because
01:02:27
every time that we start getting somewhere some leadway guess what happens somebody else comes along and
01:02:33
contradicts it right now if it just happens once okay maybe it's just the the eyewitnesses you know mess up right
01:02:42
but it happens over and over and over you you have to take a step back you're the adult here and you got to take a
01:02:50
step back and go well maybe this this isn't our kid mhm right this isn't this isn't the person that we're looking for
01:02:57
all right Captain I think that we have to kind of put a bow on this for now because we're running out of time but
01:03:02
there's a lot more to discuss here so to kind of clear this up we have on September 16th Steven truscott's trial
01:03:10
began um all the evidence presented in court was basically circumstantial uh it it centered on placing Lynn Harper's
01:03:19
time of death uh within that very narrow time frame which implicated Ste and triscott um like we said there were
01:03:27
there were only certain sides of the argument that were presented at this trial now a big problem here for the
01:03:34
public and for the citizens was that they decided to charge Steven trisca as an adult which means that he's going to
01:03:42
be sentenced to death if he's convicted yeah death by hanging this was a very controversial thing at the time um you
01:03:50
know we don't often see miners being charged and sentenced to death death he was ultimately convicted of this and he
01:03:58
was sentenced to death um there are a lot of things that didn't come out in that trial that we need to get to and
01:04:04
we'll cover those as well as is he guilty not guilty in our eyes and are there other potential suspects out there
01:04:11
that could have done this all right again happy birthday to the colonel we'll be back tomorrow in
01:04:24
the garage make sure you go to the store Page we have the douch canoe shirts what
01:04:29
we did was we made them greenh with uh blue letters this time cuz I was getting tired of that blue so we a bunch of
01:04:38
people asked for them yes said by popular demand we were receiving many emails every week about the return of
01:04:46
the douche canoe so you can go to the website right now truecrime garage.com click on the store Page uh pre-order one
01:04:53
of the those shirts today thanks to everybody for joining us in the garage today we'll see you back here tomorrow
01:04:59
until then be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter [Music] you can start your day off right when
01:05:32
you find a professional on Angie to get your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals
01:05:39
to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you can do this when you
01:05:43
Angie that