00:00:00
when it comes to Quality sleep Ashley has you covered with top mattress brands at winning prices and with special
00:00:06
financing options available you can snooze now and pay later plus your mattress purchase helps give the gift of
00:00:13
better sleep to children in need and US Special Operations forces visit your local Ashley store or shop online today
00:00:22
and make every snooze count financing is subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for d details dreaming of
00:00:31
overseas Adventures or connecting more deeply with family from afar Rosetta Stone Bridges the language Gap I've
00:00:38
tried others but Rosetta Stone's immersive lessons and voice feedback technology are game changers dive into
00:00:44
25 Languages by learning intuitively just like when you were a kid and here's the holiday Sparkle grab a lifetime
00:00:52
membership now and save 50% gift yourself the world head to rosettastone.com now and save 50%
00:01:08
[Music] [Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:45
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man with a reminder that
00:01:50
the most limited of all Specialists is the well rounded man here is the Capal and I'm well-rounded on all sides it's
00:01:58
good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling my [Music]
00:02:07
friend we still have a few coldies from yesterday that remain in the old garage fridge that's right nice cold brew
00:02:15
that's right today we are still sipping on this fine brew from our friends at hoof hearted brewing in beautiful
00:02:21
Morango Ohio zipper Ripper is a double IPA but not too strong on the old pallet because they've smoothed it out with
00:02:29
some Amish Wildflower honey and subtle hints of other flavors garage grade four and a half bottle caps out of five and
00:02:37
let's give some cheers to our good friends for helping us out this week first up a big cheers to Mary Joe in
00:02:44
Port St Lucy Florida I wonder if zipper Ripper means that you farted so hard that you blew out the back and the front
00:02:51
and a big we like your JP goes out to sel in North Carolina and here's a local cheers to Crystal from Groveport Ohio
00:03:00
and last but certainly not least a big shout out and double fisted cheers to Jessica and Brandon in Amo Indiana
00:03:08
everybody we mentioned they helped us out with the beer fund and for that we thank you yes yes yes yes yes be the we
00:03:16
you in beun if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs check out our bonus show called off the record it
00:03:23
comes out every other week on Apple subscription so go to the app podcast app and press subscribe and Colonel that
00:03:35
is enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's
00:03:42
talk some true [Music] crime [Music] blood evidence found in the apartment the apartment where a missing
00:04:21
12-year-old Heather color police are on the scene very early July 15th 1999 trying to figure out
00:04:30
what happened and where is this little girl we talked about yesterday Captain how the blood that was found on the
00:04:37
ground near this apartment was quickly determined to belong to a neighbor uh there was a man out and he was bitten by
00:04:45
a dog bled that's the blood that they find outside of the apartment they found blood inside the apartment in question
00:04:53
but they were going to send it off to be tested to confirm if in fact it was Heather's blood we can skip ahead these
00:05:01
tests take a little bit of time but just to clue everybody in they do determine yes in fact this was Heather's
00:05:09
blood now what we don't have is a situation where Dana or Christopher are trying to explain away that blood why
00:05:17
would we find Heather's blood in your apartment of course she had been staying there for a handful of days before she
00:05:22
went missing but we don't have anybody saying she cut her thumb or there was an accident and she bled at some point at
00:05:30
some place in the apartment and I say someplace because the reports about where the blood was found and how much
00:05:37
blood was found it's a little all over the shop there Captain right there's one report that states that there was a
00:05:43
small amount of blood that was found on the couch there's another report that states that blood was found on the couch
00:05:51
on a floor a portion of the floor or Carpeting and a portion uh some blood was found on one of the walls now I
00:06:00
don't want to jump here and make the leap assuming that that means that a lot of blood was found in the apartment but
00:06:09
it is interesting that this other report states that blood was found in more than
00:06:14
one location this is information that the police are clearly going to want to keep to themselves and for for the
00:06:23
reason being that they have multiple suspects you said it yesterday Christopher Herbert the man who Liv at
00:06:29
the apartment had been there for about a year says he left at 10:30 that night yeah gets back at 4: but he changes his
00:06:37
story multiple times like a real piece of [ __ ] they're not calling him a suspect and I don't fault police for
00:06:43
that and I and here's why I do what you're getting is you're getting the reporters asking you questions yes you
00:06:51
want some information to go out to the public because until you have evidence that leads you to believe that your
00:07:00
missing person is dead or has been killed you have to work your investigation under the assumption that
00:07:06
she is still alive now in this case you are hoping to not single out a suspect because you do not want to limit the
00:07:17
public you don't want to put blinders on the public and they go well they got a suspect he must have done something with
00:07:23
that girl he he must have put her somewhere he must have hid the body somewhere and and and it's only a matter
00:07:30
of time until they find the body and then boom cuffs go on Christopher Herbert you don't want to lock yourself
00:07:36
into that now what you are getting is those reporters saying uh what did the people that live at the apartment tell
00:07:43
you oh well Christopher Herbert he's got uh conflicting stories right is he a suspect no he's not a suspect at this
00:07:51
time yeah but this is this is why I have a problem because you can make the statement that everyone is a suspect at
00:07:58
this time so you're not singling him out you're not but you're not eliminating him and I think just like you said well
00:08:05
you don't if you single him out then maybe you don't get as much cooperation but I think once you state well at this
00:08:13
time he's not a suspect well what if there's pieces of evidence uh people saw something in that the apartment and
00:08:19
they're like well he's not a suspect so even though I saw this thing or even though I know this information about
00:08:26
Christopher I'm not going to come forward so I I do think it has the reverse effect as well I think you're
00:08:33
right and I again though I think it goes back to the idea that if she were to be
00:08:38
being held by somebody else or somebody else is responsible you need that information too from the public you
00:08:45
don't want to put blinders on on the public and if you're unfortunately if you're law enforcement you can't control
00:08:53
what the reporter puts in their article you can you can answer their questions to the best of your ability right and
00:08:59
they write the article um so but I just want to remind everybody too we don't just have a missing girl but we do have
00:09:06
a missing item that that comforter missing I I do think is very important well and not just that missing item
00:09:13
here's what's weird too remember we talked about Mike Mason so what has been determined is that both Christopher
00:09:21
Herbert and Mike Mason had drug a drug habit a bad a pretty bad drug habit not only that they're manufacturing
00:09:30
methamphetamine so we know this from Christopher Herbert's statements to police we know this from frankly their
00:09:38
their police record both of these guys had had run-ins with the law prior both have had r run-ins with the law after
00:09:46
the fact after Heather went missing and we know that they both had access to that garage it's been even reported that
00:09:54
it's a garage that they shared In fairness to these two we should should be clear that there could be other
00:10:00
people that shared that garage with the with Mason and Herbert you never trust anybody that shares a garage you trust
00:10:08
no one that's right the thing here is we know that they found proof that methamphetamine was being manufactured
00:10:16
in that garage that these two shared so very quickly the concern and the belief of police is a couple things they State
00:10:27
and and you will like this captain they won't name anybody but after a few weeks
00:10:32
goes by they do say hey we got we got some suspects we they they don't give an exact number they say we've got several
00:10:42
suspects but they are clear that we have basically a handful of people that we are looking at in this
00:10:51
situation and we feel very strongly that the person or person's responsible is in
00:10:58
this group group in this circle of people that we are are considering that we are monitoring they even say that
00:11:04
they are monitoring a few of their suspects we know that police were concerned about a couple things so there
00:11:11
could be any number of reasons why Heather was taken and they are stating very quickly in this investigation Foul
00:11:20
Play We have evidence to believe that there's Foul Play what is our evidence the blood the blood comes back and yes
00:11:27
it does belong to Heather it's not explained away when did that blood make it onto the carpet the couch or the wall
00:11:35
we don't know but as far as Herbert and Madden the two that occupy the apartment
00:11:40
are concerned it wasn't there when they left Madden at 10 at 10 p.m. and then Christopher at 10:30 p.m. yeah my issue
00:11:48
with the mom having a relationship with Christopher and you said well this is not just a a male that she unknown male
00:11:57
to the 12-year-old but you're more likely uh a 12-year-old girl is more likely to be sexually assaulted or
00:12:06
sexually abused by a a male that she knows and I just feel like it's not I wouldn't feel
00:12:16
comfortable with my 12-year-old daughter being alone in an apartment at night with this man that again is a known drug
00:12:25
user known drug seller known drug maker right but you're making the assumption that she knew about the drug use we
00:12:33
can't say that for certain what I can say 100% is in agreeance with you is I don't feel comfortable about any of this
00:12:40
situation minus the drugs as a parent the the the drugs is just the the icing on the cake of no you're not staying
00:12:47
over there sorry I'm not I but I don't want to spend the remainder of the episode blaming the mother because she
00:12:54
made she made a bad decision in my mind she made a bad poor choice but doesn't mean she's a murderer and
00:13:02
there's no there's never ever been anybody in law enforcement to even suggest or hint that Christine the
00:13:12
mother is a person of interest in The Disappearance of her daughter right so whatever happened according to law
00:13:18
enforcement whatever happened to Heather color happened between 10 p.m. and 4:00
00:13:24
a.m. that night and it took took place whatever led to her disappearance took place it started in the apartment and we
00:13:33
they're saying that because of the blood that they found now remember they knocked on Mike Mason's door that that
00:13:40
morning old Mike Mason they talk to him they question him briefly and then they send him to go pick up Dan Dana Madden
00:13:46
from work now he tells police at some point I actually believe that it was that morning that he goes out and starts
00:13:54
searching with Christopher Herbert and as the other officers are arriving so now you have Herbert neighbors and
00:14:02
police all actively searching together this small apartment complex this is when they discover the paraphernalia in
00:14:11
the garage but on this same morning we have a a weird statement by Mike Mason who says yes I've been in the apartment
00:14:18
many times I've I know Heather hung out with Heather uh you know hung out with the couple when they're in the presence
00:14:26
of Heather and he said oh by the way the tow chains to my vehicle they're missing and I'm going to
00:14:36
assume that the he he's is stating this while they're searching the garage he does say though that you know maybe
00:14:44
somebody stole them and used them to dispose of the girl in the river he says that's his concern well so now we have a
00:14:53
missing 12-year-old we have a missing comforter and now this neighbor that is sharing this this garage is saying that
00:15:00
his tow chains for his vehicle are missing and not this is not a good sign no and and what's weird though too is we
00:15:09
have a you're right they they have not in everyone's a suspect situation but they have a handful of suspects and the
00:15:18
problem is we end up with a list of named suspects and unnamed suspects so I ADM mentioned yesterday
00:15:29
that there was a fourth story right a fourth Christopher Herbert story this one too
00:15:38
involves some of the details that he gave in some of the other stories so in this story he says that he left the
00:15:46
apartment at 10:30 but this was to go to the garage the garage that he shared with Mike Mason he says that there in
00:15:54
the garage he and an unnamed individual were cooking up meth now for reasons that we'll get into it sounds like this
00:16:06
unnamed individual is not Mike Mason so he says that me and this unnamed individual we were cooking up meth and
00:16:13
at some point I left the garage took my vehicle and I had to go get more supplies when I got these supplies I
00:16:21
came back to the garage the guy was gone garage sealed up that's when I went to the apartment heard my baby crying I go
00:16:31
inside and Heather's gone right he tells police that this man is dating a woman who owns a red
00:16:41
BMW now why is that important he tells police that on at least one occasion and it sounded to me like this may have
00:16:49
happened more than one time that he had stole items from that BMW that belonged to this man's girlfriend and he floated
00:17:00
out the idea maybe in some kind of retaliation like me and this guy and his girlfriend
00:17:07
we don't have the best of relationships we're known drug users and Drug makers and that he had stole cash and
00:17:15
other items from them that may be in some kind of retaliation when he went off to go look for items to make more
00:17:23
meth that they took Heather so the weird part here Captain is even though this man is unnamed to the
00:17:34
public police know who this guy is right police interviewed him police interviewed his girlfriend police
00:17:41
searched their property and the BMW yeah the vehicle and police said we found no
00:17:48
evidence that Heather was e ever in their possession the department complex is small but a red BMW especially in
00:17:57
this area would be something that you'd think would stick out like a sore thumb a big giant sore thumb but a three foot
00:18:05
tall sore thumb uh red sore thumb swollen it was swollen but we don't have other eyewitnesses of this vehicle and
00:18:14
here's the other problem police say remember one of other one of Christopher's other stories is that he
00:18:20
was at the park near the river was in a van down by the river partying with a friend and then later that morphs into
00:18:26
well we might have been making meth there too probably doing both they're probably partying and you know we're
00:18:32
just having a good old time cooking up meth and hanging out and shooting the [ __ ] they speak with that man what it's
00:18:38
hard for us to sort out is Christopher Herbert's does he have an alibi I get it that he's told multiple
00:18:47
stories to police but if one of those stories is hey I was cooking up meth with this guy who his girlfriend owns a
00:18:54
BMW we we were out in the garage and then I left to go get supplies and look it's difficult to believe that
00:19:02
he would be gone for an extended period of time to get supplies but who who knows what that
00:19:07
entails well I've seen Breaking Bad okay so they we know according to police statements they spoke to that man the
00:19:14
man that supposedly Chris was in the garage cooking up meth with and then in his other story he's out partying at the
00:19:21
park near the river with a guy an unnamed guy they speak to this guy so what I'm getting at here Captain is even
00:19:31
though he supplied different stories to police look if he's cooking up meth or if he's doing drugs at night it does
00:19:38
make sense that the first story he's going to give is oh I left to drive somebody home when I came back hours
00:19:45
later she was gone right it's not uncommon at all that a person who is perfectly innocent of
00:19:52
the crime that you're investigating is covering up some other lesser crime in his whereabouts or what he was doing
00:19:59
that night yeah but the problem is at some point you have to go okay okay okay okay let me tell you the truth you know
00:20:06
right and smoking some crack over here and uh giving hand jobs out well and I don't know what order these stories came
00:20:13
out to police but he gave conflicting reports what I'm getting at here Captain is like how you say that I don't know uh
00:20:21
what order these four stories came out yeah I I mean I don't but what what I'm saying here is
00:20:28
does he have an alibi because in every one of his stories he is attempting to provide an
00:20:35
alibi attempting to provide reasons why he is not there in three of the stories he gives you another person who he was
00:20:43
with for a large portion of that time and you have spoke to police have said that they even though they've not named
00:20:51
these individuals that they spoke to both of these individuals what I'm getting at does that mean he has an
00:20:55
alibi because you know who doesn't have an alibi is Mike Mason I think it all then becomes determined on how much as
00:21:03
law enforcement do you believe these other individuals and I think just in this situation if I'm investigating a
00:21:10
disappearance of a 12-year-old girl and look she needs to be tested she needs to
00:21:15
take insulin daily by the second or third day I hate to say this but you're going
00:21:21
to start assuming the worse she's an endangered missing but when you're talking to all these individuals they
00:21:29
all become suspects MH and because of their drug use I I just don't know how much I can believe them at all right I'm
00:21:37
going to need some more concrete evidence so if you tell me you went to go get supplies I need a receipt oh I
00:21:45
can't find one you know if you say you're with this individual I I need more than his word
00:21:52
no I get that but what I what I'm also trying to to focus in on here is I mean law enforcement could have have that
00:21:58
other piece of evidence well exactly yeah but but that's what I'm saying it's hard for us to sort out what's going on
00:22:05
because we don't know if Herbert has an alibi if Herbert has an alibi so so the way that the case stands today is this
00:22:13
police say they they basically believe that they know who did it that they once had several suspects now they have a
00:22:21
prime suspect an unnamed Prime Suspect unnamed to the public right and their Prime Suspect is an IND idual that they
00:22:29
have some evidence against that they gave a polygraph test to and this individual failed the polygraph test
00:22:37
that's as much information as they've given about their Prime Suspect what I'm trying to point out here though is yes I
00:22:45
get that they're drug users yes I get that they're drug makers and likely drug Sellers as well what I'm saying though
00:22:51
is if you if you receive two different stories from one individual that oh I was in the garage
00:22:58
hanging out with this one dude and then the other version of that same story I'm
00:23:02
in the park hanging out with this other dude and you identifi those people and you spoke to both of them what happened
00:23:08
did both of them tell you that he was hanging out with them because that couldn't have
00:23:13
happened can't be both happening at the same time or did one say I don't know why yes I know Christopher Herbert yes
00:23:20
we're friends we hang out uh he maybe he asked me to cover for him but no I didn't see him that night I'm trying to
00:23:27
sort out here if he has an alibi the reason being because well I don't know I'm not law enforcement we don't we
00:23:33
don't need well they law enforcement doesn't know either they would have if they knew who killed Heather color we'd
00:23:40
be having a whole different story here today well again we know in a lot of cases the law enforcement knows they
00:23:47
just can't can't prove it and I and could you imagine not not you know this is where I feel bad horrible I feel
00:23:57
awful for it the mother because as she's learning this information again we we don't know how much I look I would I
00:24:06
would assume that if they're so deep into drugs that they're making meth but this could be a new revelation in his
00:24:14
life oh I just had a child I need to make more money this is my dumbass plan mhm is to cook up some
00:24:24
math so that could be a new revelation in her friend's life but you're law enforcement you're looking for this
00:24:33
12-year-old girl you show up to the scene now everybody you're talking to has conflicting stories and they're all
00:24:41
involved in drugs on some level you can't be feeling good about the outcome of this situation no no and
00:24:49
police have been clear very early on they've stated a few things so one they say foul play was certainly involved in
00:24:57
the Abduction of this girl she didn't walk off on her own two this is we're treating this as a homicide even though
00:25:05
we don't have a body and three We Believe whoever is responsible knew Heather Heather knew
00:25:14
them or the person has a direct tie to that apartment to where Heather was that night the the reason why I'm trying to
00:25:22
sort out this Christopher Herbert Alibi portion is because it doesn't have to be
00:25:29
a single individual that's responsible for what happened to Heather or where she may be found because the problem is
00:25:37
you have Mike Mason who could be perfectly Innocent but he does not have an alibi Christopher Herbert provides
00:25:44
several different stories but Mike Mason if he's innocent he doesn't need it it doesn't matter if he's home alone by
00:25:51
himself from 10 p.m. to 4:00 a.m. it doesn't look so good but the the issue I have with some of the stories is this
00:26:03
Herbert obviously has access to that apartment Mike Mason has been in that apartment and knows Heather so he fits
00:26:10
into the mold of what they are say stating is the person they are looking for is the suspect does he have access
00:26:17
to get into that apartment without Christopher Herbert being there right because he has access to the garage
00:26:23
would Heather let yeah would Heather let him in does he have a key to the apartment there was no forced entry no
00:26:30
signs of forced entry into the apartment that night right we know that police vetted the BMW people and they don't
00:26:39
seem to be so interested in them so where I think the case sits is one of two things either Mike Mason or
00:26:49
Christopher Herbert or the two of them together right you you grab the girl and I'll be in the car and because it's a
00:26:57
little little weird that two of the four stories that Christopher Herbert gives says that he's at a park that is near
00:27:05
the river and then the flip of that is you talk to Mike Mason and he says Oh My My tow chains are missing uh I'm worried
00:27:14
that somebody might have used them to to dispose of of the girl in the river okay so we got two people both
00:27:23
referencing the river I'm going to say something and and maybe you will pick up what I'm putting down I
00:27:32
almost lean towards an outside individual and and here's why we have a comforter
00:27:42
missing if if it was Christopher killing his wife and he put her body in the comforter he doesn't have to explain the
00:27:50
missing comforter away to anybody law enforcement shows up they don't know the comforter is missing but but this
00:27:58
12-year-old girl something happens he wraps her up in the comforter now he's going to have to explain this away to
00:28:04
his wife but if it's an outside Source then they just they just use whatever you just would kind of use
00:28:15
whatever is just around and you wouldn't you wouldn't give a [ __ ] if that makes
00:28:20
any sense right you would just grab what's there to wrap up the the package to remove it from the apartment yeah I'm
00:28:26
just saying if it was your apartment and you know your wife is coming home you might take a second to think a little
00:28:33
bit more about how you're going to dispose of this body yeah I I see what you're saying I do pick up what you're
00:28:39
putting down but I don't know that that points to to innocence for or I I think the way that this
00:28:46
probably goes down Captain is that they they're canvasing the area this neighbor
00:28:51
tells the story of hey I I witnessed this this is what I saw and then now police are going okay okay it wasn't
00:28:58
obvious that anything was missing from the apartment other than Heather but we have this statement from the neighbors
00:29:05
and now you have potentially have Dana and Christopher going oh yeah we are missing a blanket or we are missing a
00:29:11
comforter uh now now that you you ask that question that there was a similar blanket or comforter that was found in a
00:29:21
park I had a hard time tracking down when it was discovered right it sounds like it was fairly close to the time
00:29:30
that Heather went missing that the thing though is police were never able to 100% determine if that comforter came
00:29:40
from the apartment so uh they they recover this comforter or blanket it's it's often described as a blanket and
00:29:49
what was missing from the apartment is often described as a comforter but from my understanding they showed this to
00:29:56
Dana Madden and she was unable to identify it 100% as being the the missing item from their
00:30:04
apartment so that seems that's a little inconclusive but it's hard to believe her too because she would have an agenda
00:30:11
on why she wouldn't want to cooperate with law enforcement you're exactly right but what we do have at one of our
00:30:17
crime scenes is Heather's blood and you would think that if she was immediately bloodied dead or asleeping
00:30:26
unconscious whatever I don't believe she'd be sleeping unconscious would be a better term and
00:30:31
then removed in a in a comforter used to remove her from the apartment as we said
00:30:36
with the potential eyewitness right I would think that police might not need to ask Dana if this is your comforter
00:30:44
blanket if they found blood or Heather's blood on that so it sounds like no blood
00:30:50
on the on this item and that's why we need the owner or one of the owners to potentially identify it
00:30:58
[Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
00:31:13
you struggle with seasonal Blues this time of year can be a lot and it's natural to feel some sadness or even
00:31:19
anxiety about it but adding something new and positive to your life can counteract some of those feelings
00:31:25
therapy can be a bright spot something to look forward to to make you feel grounded and to give you the tools to
00:31:32
manage everything going on if you're thinking of starting therapy give better help a try it's entirely online designed
00:31:40
to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a
00:31:45
licensed therapist and switch therapist at any time for no additional charge find your bright spot this season with
00:31:52
betterhelp visit betterhelp.com Garay to get 10% % off your first month that's betterhelp
00:32:05
hp.com Rosetta Stone is the language learning program with a lasting impact I've been using their app to learn
00:32:11
French and it's not just about memorizing words but actually having real conversations and it's not just
00:32:16
French they offer 25 languages right now Rosetta Stone has an awesome holiday deal 50% off their lifetime membership
00:32:23
every language unlimited access forever for any anyone keen on diving deep into a new language check out
00:32:30
rosettastone.com it's a game changer major phone carriers make you sign contracts with rigid data plans to
00:32:38
trap you into a kind of forced phogy sounds pretty insecure if you ask me at Consumer Cellular we believe in a more
00:32:44
consensual and healthy form of monogamy free of contracts and more flexible to your data needs this way you stick
00:32:50
around not because we force you to with contracts and fees but because you love our phone plans like ently love our
00:32:56
phone phone plans monogamously Consumer Cellular when Freedom calls we're here to answer call us at 1888
00:33:04
Freedom you can live out your Master Chef dreams when you find a professional on Angie to tackle your dream kitchen
00:33:12
remodel connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well visit angie.com you
00:33:18
can do this when you Angie [Music] that all right we are back back to our story of a missing 12-year-old with a bunch of
00:33:37
suspects that are piles of [ __ ] well and you know what and I'm not going to put
00:33:43
anything on the St Louis Missouri police we'd be remiss if we didn't point out that
00:33:52
almost a thousand homicide and missing persons cases have gone unsolved in St Louis since
00:33:59
1980 this is according to their own statistics that's too many um almost 30 cold cases from the 80s and the90s have
00:34:06
been solved by the department this in 2021 thanks to the application of modern forensic Tech techniques and evidence
00:34:16
now we say that and that was my concern at first with this case because you can see why
00:34:23
this is a complicated case you have people telling different stories you have two individuals that it looks like
00:34:30
on the surface have no alibi I think they have a better understanding of Christopher Herber and where he was and
00:34:37
what he was up to that night than we do 100% I believe that right this case man they've worked this case really good
00:34:44
they put a lot of effort into this case some things that they did really smart uh they did bring in other agencies to
00:34:50
assist what I find you know through looking into these cases every every week week is that if you have a criminal
00:34:58
with a level of sophistication makes the crime a lot harder to solve right for law
00:35:06
enforcement but also seems like if the suspects are such dumbasses that that makes the the case
00:35:16
even more complex does that make any sense it's interesting you say that because on more
00:35:22
than one occasion I've heard a detective say well not the same detective but different detectives in different
00:35:29
situations say he's too dumb to lie he's too dumb to not tell us the truth right
00:35:36
and that comes with experience I can't explain that statement but I can I could tell by the the individual telling me
00:35:42
that by the sound of their voice by the look on their face they believed it let's fast forward about 2 and a half
00:35:50
years after Heather goes missing so there were remains found in a creek near St Louis in March of 20
00:35:57
2002 police were hopeful that these might be the remains of Heather color it sounds like they very quickly within a a
00:36:06
day or two were able to determine that no that was not the remains of Heather then the following month in April of
00:36:13
2002 police went on record stating this was the first time that I saw this this is the first time they come out and say
00:36:21
you know what we're pretty certain we know who did this we just need some evidence we we need a little more
00:36:28
evidence and here's the problem when you talk about a homicide investigation even
00:36:33
in 2023 uh so even more importantly in 99 2000 2001 and 2002 you don't have a body
00:36:41
it gets very difficult to bring forth charges now we talked about the blood in that apartment we have seen and we have
00:36:49
covered cases right Captain where you do not have the actual remains right but you have enough blood blood at your
00:36:57
crime scene where a medical expert can come in and say this amount of lost blood this person was killed here you
00:37:06
may and it belongs to this person this person was killed you're looking for a body you can't find it but I can
00:37:13
scientifically prove that this person is no longer with us and therefore you can
00:37:18
bring up murder charges so when we question the amount of blood one thing we do know is it was not enough that was
00:37:25
found in the apartment for someone to come forward medical expert to tell us that Heather was killed in that
00:37:31
apartment yeah so in simple terms you don't have the evidence of the victim's body but you have evidence that there
00:37:38
was a murder they have evidence of Foul Play and then they this is what's interesting I think they were really
00:37:47
hoping that somebody would crack right maybe not the Killer maybe not the person 100% responsible somebody on
00:37:55
crack might crack but some that knows the true story maybe they were told this by the perpetrator maybe they
00:38:03
witnessed something maybe they participated in something but they wanted to keep the heat the heat was hot
00:38:10
they wanted to keep it turned up Crank It Up to yeah and so they announced this to the public
00:38:18
right you can see the efforts that in this this as George W bush would say the strategery involved
00:38:28
March of 202 body found that was if it would have been Heather that would have advanced their
00:38:36
case turns out not to be Heather here's our opportunity right here's if there's some if the Killer is
00:38:44
out there and is paying attention to this case or his friends or anybody that may have helped him or paying attention
00:38:52
to this case well they're all going to get a little nervous because now the body's been out after a couple days it's
00:38:58
determined it's not Heather so what do we do use that strategery and come out within 30 days and tell the
00:39:08
newspapers yeah we know who did this we just need a little more evidence keep the heat cranked up to 11 MH you sit
00:39:17
back and you wait to see if somebody comes out to tell you a story tell you something you didn't know or present
00:39:23
some evidence to you it'd be a great time to bring people back in for even this simple questioning I'm sure that
00:39:29
they did that because here's what happened next whatever they were looking for whatever they were hoping to get led
00:39:35
to Heather's body or told the story of where she was disposed of that likely didn't happen keep the
00:39:43
heat cranked up to 11 right the following month they bring in the FBI FBI come in and take a look at this
00:39:53
case conduct your own independ endent investigation we will supply you with everything we have and then tell us what
00:40:02
you think happened so the FBI comes in they examine everything they put together an
00:40:07
offender profile they they profile the whole the whole case the whole scenario none of this information other than the
00:40:14
FBI being brought in and conducting their own independent investigation is released to the public so we don't know
00:40:20
what their findings were we don't know what kind of profile they came up with but what I can sit here and say and you
00:40:26
know this Captain just as well as I do we've seen this in dozens of cases police are pretty certain that they know
00:40:34
what happened a couple years go by they're not able to close the case or make an arrest you bring in an
00:40:42
independent investigation somebody like the FBI or BCI or we've seen it with gbi
00:40:49
and all the other eyes that are out there yeah or the MF FBI yeah as many eyes as you can put on the case right
00:40:56
we're not talking about eyeballs we're talking about the the letter I I'd just love to be questioning somebody and go
00:41:02
you know what we just did we just brought in the MF FBI yeah to be going What the [ __ ] FBI and we're
00:41:10
starting just so you know we're starting up the tcgi True Crime garage investigations um and we're cheap so
00:41:19
Dirt Cheap we work for beer uh you bring in the FBI they conduct their own investigation you don't release any of
00:41:25
that information to the public and you know why and we've seen this a dozen of times we've been told this from other
00:41:32
investigators we brought in the FBI on our case you don't need to tell the public anything because guess what
00:41:39
happened they came to the same conclusion that they that the police came to we don't need to release the
00:41:46
offender profile because they came to the same conclusion that we did and I'm certain
00:41:53
that this has happened in this case and I think that really you could probably narrow down your suspects to two or
00:42:00
three people it's Christopher Herbert it's Mike Mason or an unknown individual and
00:42:08
it could be more than one person within that group of three we could have two or three people
00:42:16
who were respon who's to say that Christopher Herbert didn't have a bunch have Mike Mason and a friend over and
00:42:21
they decided to just party at the house right or they're in the garage cooking up meth and then Heather stumbles onto
00:42:28
this and and now we feel like we have something we got to cover up do we know if the couple is still together I don't
00:42:35
think so um they weren't married at the time and the the the only thing that I have to base that off of Captain is that
00:42:42
Christopher Herbert spent a good amount of time in in and out of prison so I'm guessing that holding down a
00:42:48
relationship is going to be a little difficult when you when you locked up yeah um we also know that Mike Mason has
00:42:55
spent a good deal of time in prison as well oh surprise surprise yeah and so what what's interesting though is Mike
00:43:05
Mason is not shy to talk to police or even the media about this case now that doesn't that doesn't sway me either
00:43:16
way on his innocence or guilt yeah stuff like that to me it's like that could mean everything or nothing exactly
00:43:23
you're exactly right I hope it didn't come off that just harping on Heather's mother but I do know that there's been
00:43:31
times that Heather's mother has confronted these individuals yes because because when you're not getting in a
00:43:37
straight story you would obviously become more suspicious and you're leaving your daughter in the hands of
00:43:45
two individuals that you thought were your friends you thought that she would be safe over there and obviously she
00:43:53
wasn't yeah so this is a this is is one of the more fun parts of the story I guess is a really dumb way for me to
00:44:01
describe it but there you have it Christine was actually arrested and this was a handful of months after Heather
00:44:11
went missing and Christine firmly believed I'm guessing that she had a good idea or or had a very strong Theory
00:44:21
but a large portion of whatever it is that she believed it's unclear of who she thought was 100%
00:44:29
responsible but it's very clear that she believed that Dana Madden her friend that that police again confirmed that
00:44:35
she was at work that night arrived on time she believed that her friend Dana Madden knew more than what Dana was
00:44:42
telling to police and telling to Christine right and this infuriated her this is a conversation she she attempted
00:44:50
to have many times with her friend Dana clearly she didn't think she was getting
00:44:54
the information that she deserved or or or should be told and so she goes to Dana's place of work at the gas station
00:45:01
one night with a baseball bat demanding to know what happened to her daughter and Dana locks herself in a
00:45:09
back room in the back room so that Christine can't get to her calls police and then Christine's arrested and this
00:45:18
for you know menacing or or public endangerment something of or public um I don't know exactly what the charge
00:45:25
was but we know that she was arrested and charged with something now unfortunately Christine's no longer with
00:45:32
us she she died in her 50s not knowing what happened to her daughter Heather she did work you can see if you go back
00:45:41
through all of the media stuff she spent her remaining days trying to figure out
00:45:46
what happened to her daughter she she spent a lot of time working with other foundations the class Foundation the
00:45:53
poly class Foundation out of California I believe but we see this in a lot of cases it's a you know not knowing and
00:46:01
feeling possibly responsible and knowing that there's people out there that possibly have
00:46:07
these answers it's like a cancer and we we see it in a lot of cases whether the the the victim is
00:46:14
found or not MH I mean John B Ramsay mother dies young in this case mother dies young and
00:46:24
in uh Amy Mahal case mother dies young it's I mean it's it's uh it's horrible and it's just another
00:46:36
victim in this crime yeah and I think where the case stands today captain we're talking about Dana Madden's Alibi
00:46:43
confirmed verified by police she was working that night and police seem to firmly believe that Heather was alive
00:46:53
and well at 10 p.m. on the the 14th and that something happened to Heather between 10: p.m. and 4:00 a.m. on the
00:47:01
15th Christopher Herbert again for reasons we've discussed at at length it's very difficult to nail down what
00:47:10
the true story is we do know that that they did speak with two of the individuals separately that he was
00:47:18
supposedly with that night it would be very interesting to know if either of them confirmed or
00:47:25
denied being with Christopher Herbert that night it'd be interesting if both of them confirmed to be with Christopher
00:47:31
Herbert that night because if you're supposed to be in different places at the same time with the same person guess
00:47:37
what your two aliis now become zero aliis yeah normally have some hope a case will get solved but I think in this
00:47:46
one because of the the drug use the time of the people of interest you know time spent in prison
00:47:56
chances of them finding the the the remains I I I just think I don't have a lot of Hope for this one unless somebody
00:48:05
agree comes forward unless somebody knows something of substance something that they can prove to police then I I I
00:48:14
just don't have a lot of Hope in this one well and I was all but determined to show up at the garage today here hang
00:48:23
out with you Captain jump up on my giant soap box and scream it from the top of the mountains that I think that that
00:48:32
Christopher Herbert is suspect a number one or he and Mason something happened there
00:48:41
there's a very likelihood that whoever's responsible did not intend to kill Heather colorin that something happened
00:48:49
and they they took measures to dispose of the body afterwards there there's a likelihood that that that's a
00:48:56
possibility there's a likelihood that somebody did intend to kill her it's it's difficult to say based off of the
00:49:00
evidence but I was determined to come in here and say you know what I think the most likely scenario is that that
00:49:07
Christopher Herbert and Mike Mason did this together got to give a big shout out here Captain to Steph Pacho who does
00:49:16
the trace evidence podcast there's been some storytelling and and some some uh coverage of this case outside of St
00:49:26
Louis as far as YouTube goes but as far as podcast go trace evidence was the only one that I could find that covered
00:49:34
it at length he always does a good job over there he pointed out something that really kind of it didn't totally
00:49:41
squash my thought my theory that maybe the two of them did it together because the the the thing that I have a hard
00:49:47
time getting past is that Christopher Herbert never says he's with Mike Mason yet he's at a park near the Mississippi
00:49:57
River Bank near the Mississippi River and then Mike Mason tells police oh my toe chains are moving I'm worried
00:50:05
that somebody Ed These Chains to wait down the girl and and disposed of her in the Mississippi River like it
00:50:14
seems I get it that the river's right there but it seems a little weird that these two guys
00:50:20
would have this one element in both of their stories separately and so I wondered if maybe
00:50:29
one helped the other with a problem oh I got you know this happened this happened
00:50:35
I didn't mean for it to happen now I got to get rid of this uhhuh if something like that
00:50:40
occurred and again trace evidence Steven Pacho doesn't completely squash my theory but
00:50:47
brings up a good a good and and impressive observation you got two guys that are in and out of prison on lesser
00:50:56
charges some of them facing years because they're repeat offenders it would make a whole lot of
00:51:03
sense that that person a would turn on person B for a plea bargain in some other lesser
00:51:10
crime and say look right law enforcement if you can if you can help me out I can
00:51:15
help you out well that's a that that's a very intelligent point to point out the
00:51:21
other thing too when we're talking about media coverage this is not necessarily in Heather koren's case but if you start
00:51:29
digging into this case there unfortunately is a lot or were a lot in a period of 10 years in this Greater St
00:51:40
Louis area of children going missing and there many of these stories are much different than the Heather
00:51:48
color case Heather color was at that apartment whatever happened to her happened it started in that apartment
00:51:55
where she ended up we don't know but a lot of these other kids were abducted while they were walking home getting off
00:52:03
the school bus out riding a bike and unfortunately it appears that there was probably about three different child
00:52:12
killer child abductor offenders operating in this area within about a 10 to 20 year time period so in some weird
00:52:22
way she kind of becomes just another f on a milk carton where they cover these stories in the newspaper year after year
00:52:31
and you see her face her name the details of her case of Heather's case piled on three four five other cases that were
00:52:41
still outstanding and one of those cases was a young girl by the name of Angie Housman and Angie housman's case is
00:52:53
weird when you look into it captain because it's like they her case went unsolved for so long and it was such a
00:53:01
mystery for so long that anytime another kid came up missing they investigated the possibility if Angie housman's case
00:53:10
was related to the latest missing kids case right and that too was true with Heather color we know 100% that know
00:53:20
that's not the situation I shouldn't say 100% let's go with 98 % but we have police telling us
00:53:27
in Heather korin's case her the person responsible knew Heather Heather knew them in Angie housman's
00:53:36
case they were able to finally solve her case using DNA evidence and the person responsible for that was Earl Webster
00:53:45
Cox who was actually serving life in prison when they connected him to the Angie housan case many many years later
00:53:53
now if you want to learn more more about that case there's a great uh coverage on
00:53:59
the Angie hman case and that was on the case with pazan the TV show season 23 episode 7 which aired in September of
00:54:08
2021 yeah one of the things that is very interesting and you have to applaud police for this is that they spent time
00:54:16
monitoring these individuals uh for a time period to try to solve this case yes an extended
00:54:23
period of time that that cost a lot of money manh hours and resources to monitor individuals so unfortunately
00:54:32
captain and unfortunately garage listeners Heather's disappearance remains unsolved and Foul Play is
00:54:39
strongly suspected as the captain pointed out there's been a group of people a group of suspects over the
00:54:45
years who have been monitored in connection to Heather's disappearance but no one has been officially labeled
00:54:53
as a suspect we do have police saying that they believe they have a prime suspect and that their prime suspect
00:55:00
they have some evidence against and one piece they believe is that that this individual failed a polygraph
00:55:08
examination no arrests have been made in this case Heather who disappeared while
00:55:12
babysitting for the infant daughter of family friends Christopher Herbert and Dana
00:55:18
Madden she's of course abducted sometime during the night or early morning hours
00:55:24
this is what police have told us and this is where the case stands to this day this is a case that I think that if
00:55:32
they find the right evidence that we might see this case Advance sometime soon we know that we are seeing success
00:55:42
coming out of the St Louis area on a lot of their cold cases remember in 2021 they solved 30 of their cold cases
00:55:52
in that year alone I'm hoping that Heather's case can be one that's solved this [Music]
00:56:05
[Music] year want to thank you so much for donating to the Beer fund for listening
00:56:16
to the show for sharing and telling friends and families about the True Crime garage flying garage ship Colonel
00:56:24
do we have recommended reading this week it's a little self-serving here Captain
00:56:28
but I'm going to recommend my book the deli murders the quest to find the man on the bridge the reason why we got a
00:56:36
book signing coming up this Saturday at hoof harded in Morango Ohio join me there if you can from 2: to 4:00 p.m. on
00:56:45
Saturday I'll be selling and signing books if you already have one just bring it with you and we will have a beer and
00:56:52
a laugh together hope to see as many people there as possible that's this Saturday from 2: to 4: at hoof harded in
00:56:59
Morango Ohio yeah and if you need some lighter reading check out my book whoever smelt
00:57:06
it dealt it you can find that on Amazon Prime and until next week be good be kind and don't
00:57:14
[Music] litter [Applause] [Music] you can start your day off right when you find find a professional on Angie to
00:57:56
get your plumbing right first connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well
00:58:03
visit angie.com you can do this when you Angie that