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[Music] welcome to True crab garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and co-hosting with me as always together we are two guys that are driving the
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movement to stop Global whining ladies and gentlemen the captain yeah don't make me turn this car around it's good
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to be seeing it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music]
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friend today we are still sipping on this fantastic beer by Highland Brewing Company High Pines this is a tropical
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business all right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
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[Music] cry continuing on with our questions for Shar Shi to lesen be in the deli murder
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investigation we now reach the point where we are discussing what they are calling the communication portion of the
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question submitted to the good Sheriff the question here is the lack of communication on the part of your
00:03:48
department and law enforcement is a significant concern for many individuals the exception seems to be the families
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of the victims why do you think this is the case Sheriff lesen says I respectfully
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disagree with this statement as I have said since the beginning much of what we protect and keep close to the vest is
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preserved for the courtroom and trial to release too much information would in my
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opinion potentially taint a jury before a trial even begins and as most know the
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double jeopardy Clause exist in the US Constitution which means in short the prosecutor only has one chance at
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Prosecuting this case I feel as Sheriff I have been very open and accessible at least to mainstream media and answered
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most questions reasonably well a couple things there one when they try this case
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and they will one day they're going to seek the death penalty period and that's even harder to get a conviction when you
00:04:53
seek that that's what they'll seek that's what they'll get Indiana will execute this murder
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the other reason that the public the public wants more information that doesn't mean that we deserve more
00:05:06
information the people that do deserve more information is the family but again if you look at a lot of interviews from
00:05:13
Kelsey it seems as if her grandparents have seen all the video footage listened to all the audio footage probably have
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seen more information than the public has been allowed to see yes what I have been told
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by Kelsey specifically and what I've seen other family members say in interviews or on record is that yes they
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have seen additional portions of the video and heard additional portions of the audio and there's nothing really on
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there is what what they have said what I find to be very interesting is to blazen
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be his answers really very similar well why haven't you released more of the video if you have it he doesn't say we
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don't have more video or audio he says there's nothing Earth shattering on there that would tell John Q
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public oh now I know who did this there's nothing that's going to move anybody in that way and take this a step
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further here Captain I have heard in one interview where lesen B said that there
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wasn't really any useful additional audio of bridge guy right and the recording well and they had one of the
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sheriff's on the down the hill documentary say it's not a super lengthy video that they have mhm the general
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consensus seems to be what about 2 and a half minutes potentially of video Andor
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audio Yeah I think there was a bunch of different rumors there but I think the thing too for the public at first law
00:06:52
enforcement releases one photo which is from a video and then they go hey let's let's add a little bit bit to that then
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they give you a little bit more after a time period of nobody coming forward and
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saying a 100% for certainty that that's the guy and then they're able to lock up
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the guy with those pictures if there was a better image they would have released
00:07:15
the better image correct that's probably the best image that they have and I want
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to take this a step further here Captain another thing that has been said so the
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most common questions that I see recycled time and time again to law enforce is why haven't you released
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additional audio and or video if it does in fact exist and why have you not disclose the cause of death the manner
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of of death in this investigation to hit on that second one they have outwardly said and I agree
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with this 100% they say that the manner of death would not help anybody in the public
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again say oh I now know who who did this I now can submit a tip because I know how they were killed right that has to
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be true I I back that up 100% does the prosecutor rely on you to determine what information is given to the public or
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does he make that decision independently and here to lesen is going to point out that they are both elected
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officials they are both held to a different set of rules so they both act accordingly inside those set of rules so
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he's saying no the prosecutor doesn't tell me what I can or cannot say and no I do not tell him what he can and cannot
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say the next question is there is a surging movement Across the Nation from professional investigators and others
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insisting the police release more details about the crime scene and the investigation not to mention the
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entirety of the video and audio found on Libby's phone why are you not releasing
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information and go on to reference text written by Searchers on the scene are now on the internet for everyone to see
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there is also dispatch audio from when the girls were found on the internet now given these facts how can you justify
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not releasing more information he's going to give the same answer here as we've seen before I respectfully
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disagree with this statement he's trying to Pro protect the Integrity of their investigation reminding that because of
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Double Jeopardy the pro utor has one shot at this thing question the prosecutor fought in court not to
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release the 911 tapes of the Flora fire and won he has publicly stated all release of information concerning the
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deli girls must go through him all murders are unsolved for four plus years National statistics state after one year
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that there is less than 5% chance of an arrest is Carol County doing the right thing by by guarding information after 4
00:10:01
years or are they endangering other children due to the prosecutor's office lack of experience based on your
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professional experience Gathering evidence again he's going to respectfully disagree with this
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statement as well they're not releasing more information for they don't want to potentially taint a jury before a trial
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even begins I found one thing to be quite interesting and rather clever and a bit sad one of the mothers of of the
00:10:34
victims said in the down the hill two-part special she said we all hear how bad and how difficult a case can be
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to solve after 48 Hours has expired now we have this case and it's been 48 months yeah we're between a rock and a
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hard place and I don't think any of us thought we would be sitting here having the same conversation of who is bridg
00:11:00
Guy why do we not know what happened after 48 months I don't know if you picked up on this but lately in some of
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the interviews I've listened to and then with the documentary it seems like they're they're 100% confident that this
00:11:15
individual is is a local well and I agree with that it but but it's a much longer answer than just that they say we
00:11:25
believe he he lives in Deli or was from Deli by he's you know a local or was local at one point or may work here so
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there's something there's a local aspect to this suspect MH and it could be something where he grew up in the area
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maybe he lived there for the first 20 years of his life and he's not been there the last several years or however
00:11:48
old he is or yes he is a local or he works there I I believe that to be true for many reasons one I think think that
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one thing that's very telling is Kelsey she's the sister of one of the victims and other family members of these two
00:12:07
victims have said that there are people that live in Deli that have never walked
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across that bridge MH there are people in Deli that have never gone to those Trails there's people that don't even
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know that bridge exists correct so and I believe that that bridge was a big part
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of his strategy for for cornering yeah it's a trap I think we both believe that bridge was used as a trap and I think
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again moving look there's two different theories I think me and you have we butt
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heads a little bit on this I think you believe that the individuals parked possibly at the cemetery and that he was
00:12:46
leading them to the cemetery and maybe a struggle happened and he decided to or or he got angry and decided to murder
00:12:54
him there I believe he moved him in that direction because he knew where Logan's
00:13:00
house was and knew that in order to you know get them away from anybody that possibly could see him or them you would
00:13:10
have to move them in that direction because if you move them in any other direction well one you you're not going
00:13:16
to take them back over the bridge and you're not going to move them in any other direction because there's property
00:13:23
there and houses there yeah and one thing I think we can agree on for certain and where are theories kind of
00:13:30
overlap is that all of those actions would be the same in both Theory where you're you're moving you've used the
00:13:39
bridge as a strategy to Corner your victims whoever they would be and then you're moving your victim Andor victims
00:13:47
in a manner that you're going away from where you would be spotted where you would run into some trouble and so the
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bridge and all of that land private and otherwise on the other side of the bridge where the girls were killed was
00:14:02
part of that strategy and for it to be part of the strategy this is knowledge that this man had prior to that day
00:14:10
something he very likely thought about and considered when going about the business of that day moving on to the
00:14:19
terrain portion of the questions Captain this question is there are many residents of the county that have never
00:14:26
been on the trails the describe the terrain of where the girls were found what is the most direct route out of the
00:14:34
area they were found how long of a walk from where they entered to where they were found um his answer is very similar
00:14:44
to one of the state parks I I'm guessing he's saying that's about how the the size of the place a lot of Hills brush
00:14:51
trees Etc directly south of the morning Heights Cemetery but on private property
00:14:58
I do not recall the specific distance okay so that must be where they were found that's his vague answer is
00:15:04
directly south of the morning Heights Cemetery but on private property I do not recall the specific distance here's
00:15:12
where you can go from from the bridge entrance or exit however the end of the bridge the south end of the High Bridge
00:15:20
is what it would be called to the crime scene or or where the bodies were found that's less than a quarter mile away
00:15:27
from that where the bodies were found to the cemetery is roughly about a quarter
00:15:33
mile away and this next question follows along that same the same thoughts that we're having and and sharing right now
00:15:41
are in step with what we've been talking about Ron Logan has stated on news programs the only way to get to the site
00:15:49
I guess the where the girls were found the murder scene is over difficult terrain and private property given the
00:15:57
difficulty getting to where the bodies were found many believe the killer or killers were familiar with the area do
00:16:03
you as a law enforcement officer believe that as well and his answer is very much
00:16:09
so it is part of the reason why we continually feel it is a quote local or someone who was very familiar with the
00:16:19
area well here's what I know for certain I I feel this 100% in my bones this individual has a their own ENT and exit
00:16:29
to the bridge or to that park again we differ on how they get there but this area that's how they
00:16:38
enter and exit yes if if a vehicle was used or was used in this crime I have a whole different set of ideas but one
00:16:48
thing that is fascinating to me is if this person would have been able to arrive on scene by foot and leave the
00:16:56
scene by foot there again you would have a whole lot less likelihood that there would be any other video from other
00:17:04
sources on bridge guy and that might explain why we don't have any other footage from anywhere else of bridge guy
00:17:13
leaving the scene or arriving on the scene I 100% believe he arrived and exited by foot and I also believe that's
00:17:23
why there's zero eyewitness with as many people were at the park with the distance he would had to cover
00:17:31
go back through the actual entrance and exit of the park that somebody would have saw this individual and this
00:17:38
individual would have had to be covered in blood that's what is proof to me that
00:17:43
this individual showed up on foot and left on foot next question who organized the search teams on February 13th and
00:17:51
February 14th how were individuals divided into teams and how were the search areas determined
00:17:58
answer it was a combined effort involving a number of First Responders police Fire EMS and community volunteers
00:18:07
divided mainly by their association with various entities firefighters went with
00:18:12
firefighters and so forth and anybody that's listened to our show for a while will know from from cases that we've
00:18:20
covered specifically with missing persons cases that a lot of the searches might be overseen by law enforcement or
00:18:28
the sheriff's department but firefighters have a different skill set and a different set of techniques and
00:18:35
they're very good at search and rescue that's what they do when your house is on fire right often times we will see
00:18:42
and have seen in many cases that we've covered that the fire department is usually a very big part in deciding the
00:18:50
leadership of the search teams and the goals you know or or how they're going to go about search searching a
00:18:58
particular area or where they do search so that question and answer makes a lot of sense what is not question and I've
00:19:06
failed to put it on my questions but it's one thing that I asked Kelsey when I spoke with her and it's something that
00:19:14
I've asked anybody that's gotten close to this case that's talked to the people in charge and I said did they require
00:19:23
any kind of identification by the people that showed up to search on the 14th did you take
00:19:31
records of any of those people did you write down their names their addresses their phone number did you did you ask
00:19:38
for identification before they signed up to search how organized was it and we know from other serial cases these guys
00:19:48
return to the area we talked about Amy Mahal's case there's a guy that's a suspect right now because they believe
00:19:55
that they saw his vehicle the day that her body was found months later after the abduction they believe they saw his
00:20:03
vehicle passing through a four-way stop near the body recovery site and he had no reason to be there whatsoever right
00:20:12
so that puts him on a whole different list of prioritized suspects and here I would not be shocked if Bridge guy
00:20:21
returned to the scene to assist in the search efforts on the 14th if he was in fact that relaxed mhm If he if if if we
00:20:30
can dump him in the category of any of these other monsters that we've discussed on the show it would not Shock
00:20:38
me it would not surprise me if in fact he ended up on a search team on the 14th well and what we we've learned from
00:20:46
other cases like Stephen Avery that that crime scene or that location where they're looking for individuals was you
00:20:53
know pretty contained and pretty small compared to a park and there's several people that showed up to those searches
00:21:03
that never signed in and some of the people that were conducting the searches didn't sign in I think again 100% this
00:21:11
individual was there on the 14th they knew what they did and they knew that by being there at the search that hey you
00:21:20
you got to you got a piece of uh clothing of mine or you got a a cup with some DNA of mine on it well I can argue
00:21:29
that away that I was at the search so of course you have an item from me that I left behind the next two sets of
00:21:35
questions will really be based around the command center and the County Safety the safety of the residents in the
00:21:45
county since it is an unsolved homicide case and I love this round of questioning because this is really the
00:21:53
checks and balances portion the quality control portion you got to check in with
00:21:59
these officials you know how many people does to lesen be answer to not many is the answer how many people does the
00:22:06
prosecutor answer to not many but at the end of the day they're both elected officials they answer to the community
00:22:14
as a whole so I love that we have this little bit of checks and balances I loved seeing the mother of one of the
00:22:21
victims say in her interview you know there are days that I feel like I should drive over to the the police Department
00:22:28
the the sheriff's department and say okay guys what is it that we're doing today what on our
00:22:34
investigation are we working on today are we working on anything because it's been four years so let's go through this
00:22:42
quality control bit right here Captain the first question is why is the investigative team assuming there is one
00:22:50
still at the city building why was it ever at the city building this is where they set up their Command Center and his
00:22:56
answer says the main reason in a space the county does not have a facility which adequately provides for what is
00:23:03
needed for the investigation followup question who monitors and supervises the County investigators and how is that
00:23:12
monitoring done are there written records of time spent on the investigation he says as Sheriff I am in
00:23:20
charge of that responsibility but also our County investigators are professional and experienced I trust
00:23:27
their abilities we talk frequently a lot of times daily granted there are days there's nothing new to discuss and yes
00:23:36
records are kept next question is there still a team of investigators how many comprise that team and how often do they
00:23:45
meet his answer is yes two County detectives two Indiana state police detectives and from time to time outside
00:23:54
detectives from other police agencies including the FBI die a portion of the team meets almost daily but with
00:24:01
technology meetings are not always in person obviously with covid some meetings have been by zoom and this is a
00:24:10
question I have for you captain and I was wondering about this we're looking at this investigation and going okay
00:24:16
well it's 48 months later it's 4 years later and a lot of people are going to judge the quality of the investigation
00:24:24
based off of it's been this long and it's not solved should anybody out there be grading on a
00:24:30
curve a little bit because because of covid because things have been shut down and because things have not been quote
00:24:37
unquote normal for approximately a year now no I agree with you it's it's a murder it should be solved as soon as
00:24:46
possible and for all we know they're doing everything in their power and all we can hope for is they're doing
00:24:52
everything in their power to get it solved immediately and just because other walks of life can't go and work as
00:25:01
normal I don't see how covid or anything like that would have affected the investigation it may have delayed things
00:25:09
a touch but but I don't see how it would really directly affect the the investigation well the way I think it's
00:25:16
going to affect the investigation mainly is that the individual the local individual is not
00:25:23
going to be out amongst people this individual I believe is nervous nervous about being caught if
00:25:32
the Killer is stuck in their house and isolated then you're not going to have him slip up and say something that maybe
00:25:42
makes somebody suspicious or you he might not he's not might not be around the person where he's he maybe he's
00:25:50
telling his kids or telling somebody else's kids hey guys let's go over here and that's enough for somebody to go
00:25:57
wait a second and I've heard that voice before so that's what it's doing it's isolating the Killer by himself and
00:26:05
there will be several follow-up questions to the questions we just went through as far as quality control and
00:26:12
what's going on with the inner workings of the in investigation and I'll kind of
00:26:16
sum up his answers there uh he's basically saying look we have two County detectives that are working this case
00:26:25
that this is their primary case that they work we got two on the team from our agency
00:26:30
there's two from the Indiana State Police who oversees them well obviously I oversee my detectives Indiana State
00:26:37
Police oversee their detectives they're asked is there an FBI agent stationed at
00:26:43
the command center daily and the answer is no and he says but through technology
00:26:48
it's not difficult to communicate with the FBI this is interesting is the command center secure how many people
00:26:57
have have keys to the command center outside of yourself the Indiana State Police two County detectives and the FBI
00:27:05
who has access to that room and you can see why it's obvious why this is an important question he says the the
00:27:12
people that have access to that room is anyone that is tied closely to the investigation then a follow-up question
00:27:20
of given the command center is outside of your jurisdiction how do you as a sheriff sh assure residents their
00:27:29
information is well guarded and his answer is again those closely tied to the investigation know what a top
00:27:36
priority the case is and that the information is [Music] safe this show is sponsored by better
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[Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers to you Colonel cheers to you Captain
00:30:11
cheers to all the good people out there listening in their garages now on to County Safety which has to be a concern
00:30:20
anybody in the area that has a family trying to raise children we have this double homicide that's still unsolved 4
00:30:27
years later we have investigators telling us that we believe it's highly probable that the offender is
00:30:34
local he's somebody that Lo yo yeah local Yoko that could go Loco and go out and do this again yeah here's our
00:30:43
question former Deli police chief Steve Mullen stated at the first press conference quote our people know what to
00:30:52
do end quote after being asked if the community was in danger and what PR cautions should residents take parents
00:30:59
of schoolage children were taken aback by this statement as the County's chief law enforcement officer are residents
00:31:08
particularly young girls of Carrol County in danger given the unsolved murders of six young girls so anybody
00:31:17
that's not familiar with the area that area has had in the past 5 years there's been six young girls in two incidents
00:31:29
murdered and all of those cases are unsolved to this day yeah so his answer is comparing Carol County to other
00:31:38
jurisdictions in our annual statistics I feel Carol County is one of the safest areas to live in I would much rather
00:31:47
raise a family here than say a larger metropolitan area I think it's a fair answer I think it's a nice way of
00:31:55
dancing around do you think that this guy's going to kill again that that that that's really the question and should
00:32:01
parents be concerned and I think this guy is scared I think they know he's scared I think he knows he's being
00:32:08
watched and he knows that he slipped up a little bit and he hasn't been caught yet so he's just going I can't I can't
00:32:16
slip up again well and we kicked around the idea and everybody comes back to this is this a serial killer is this
00:32:23
someone who's killed before or is this someone that will kill again is it a serial killer or do they have the
00:32:30
makings MH of being becoming a serial killer and I think if in fact they do if they do have the makings of becoming a
00:32:38
serial killer and this was the first quote unquote event in what would be a series look there's a cooling off period
00:32:46
between murders for these guys and maybe his image his likeness his voice being broadcast to to
00:32:58
everyone Nationwide has made this cooling off period extensive maybe it's the rest of
00:33:05
his life but I I feel like if I if this guy were going to act again had that audio and the video not come out right I
00:33:16
think he would have already run the cycle of kill cool off start hunting again and kill again mhm and that's
00:33:25
again where we have to clud our two victims our two Brave Little victims here that while they were not able to
00:33:33
escape this man we have information on this guy that I believe has forced him to lie dormant and not act on urges that
00:33:43
he very likely has yeah I completely agree the Carol County and Deli are small town USA yet there has been a
00:33:52
significant number of violent deaths in the last 4 years including the double murder on State Route 29 where victims
00:34:01
male and female were shot and burned a man was shot and killed near Deer Creek and a deli police officer was recently
00:34:10
found dead for a county with under 20,000 people that is two plus murders per year with the majority being female
00:34:21
according to National Data males make up 78% of all murder victims it appears the
00:34:28
opposite in Carol County are females at a higher risk for violence in Carol County Mr lesby says in my professional
00:34:37
opinion I would say no a lot of the situations again in my opinion are coincidental and here's a good question
00:34:45
Captain they want to know in the professional opinion of the sheriff would he describe the deaths of the six
00:34:52
females and again we're talking about the Flora case with the four Young young victims in the deli case with two female
00:35:00
victims would he describe these deaths as planned and he goes on to say no rather victims of circumstance or
00:35:08
opportunity additionally Indiana State Police is the lead with the flo investigation our agency is not actively
00:35:16
involved in that investigation so to clear things up he's basically stating the the floor investigation we don't
00:35:23
have anything to do with so right you're asking me to give my professional expert
00:35:28
opinion on something that I'm not involved in based off of that we have to believe that his answer is in direct
00:35:35
relation to the deli murders case exactly do you feel that these murders are planned that these deaths are
00:35:41
planned and he says no rather victims of circumstance or opportunity it's a very
00:35:47
interesting answer well I think that's that becomes a thing is we both believe the bridge was used as some for form of
00:35:56
trap like this individual would go to this park and go to these areas and and it's happen stance if if a victim comes
00:36:04
along great I'm not going to force it but I have my trap I have my idea of what I want to do in that context it's
00:36:12
like well yeah the whole idea was planned and maybe the whole idea was fantasized about but the the individual
00:36:18
never acted upon it cuz maybe he never had the opportune time and then the question becomes did this kill
00:36:27
actually mean to kill them or was his intention something else and he lost control of the situation and lost
00:36:35
control of himself and look if you're depending on your life and your livelyhood
00:36:43
by approaching these girls maybe by taking control of them in some Manner and maybe one attacks you or fights back
00:36:54
or whatever and you go well if they go to Cops and they say I was trying to sexually harass them or offer them money
00:37:03
for sexual favors and they turn me in my life is over I think that becomes a question did this killer mean to kill
00:37:11
them or was he reacting to their reaction to whatever he was trying or attempting to do right and that's
00:37:19
fascinating what I think is very interesting though that that overlaps again where our theories
00:37:25
overlap and and our strong feelings about the case overlap is again all centralized on the bridge itself that
00:37:34
the bridge was part of this man's planned strategy now he says these are victims of circumstance or opportunity
00:37:44
so then that means if I'm using this bridge to my benefit to my advantage over my would be
00:37:51
victim or victims then I'm either waiting and sitting lying and wait waiting and watching looking for a
00:38:01
potential victim and they present themselves they come to the area by themselves and then I strike or if I'm
00:38:10
going to use the bridge I have to lure my victim here if it's somebody that I planned or picked out I have to get them
00:38:19
to this area so it's it's very interesting I keep going back to the bridge because I think it's such a
00:38:25
centralized part of this case and and really a big reason why things went down where and how that they did that day in
00:38:35
February yeah I think some of this is similar to like a Ted Bundy or Jeffrey dmer where they go around their
00:38:42
neighborhood looking in Windows fantasizing about killing and I think this individual did the same thing with
00:38:49
that Park but like I said I believe this individual has their own entrance and exit so sometimes people didn't even
00:38:56
know that he was there this next question is a judge has now stepped down for personal indiscretions with a
00:39:05
prostitute The Prostitute stated the judge tracked her via the court system the same judge jailed Mr Logan this
00:39:14
would be Ron Logan who people familiar with the case will know his property is right near where the the girls were
00:39:20
found this same judge jailed Mr Logan for probation violation shortly after the killings in called him a danger to
00:39:28
the community now 4 years later the judge has resigned the prosecutor has resigned and no killer is behind bars
00:39:36
conversely Mr Logan has been Cooperative with law enforcement he was visibly shaken by the bodies being on his
00:39:44
property and he openly allowed law enforcement and media on his property in your professional opinion was Mr Logan
00:39:51
targeted by the prosecutor or law enforcement Andor judge and our answer is no it may have
00:39:59
appeared to be that way but a lot of it dealt with timing on the part of the court system and when Mr Logan's case
00:40:07
was handled look that may be true and I have no reason at all to not agree or to
00:40:16
not believe what the sheriff is saying in fact I applaud the sheriff for taking the time to answer these questions I
00:40:25
think that he wants to be potentially even more transparent than than they have and I think because you have
00:40:32
multiple agencies working together that maybe he's not said as much as he would like to put out there but he's being a
00:40:41
team player so I have no reason to not believe Mr lesen B but I get what he's saying that it was just kind of
00:40:49
coincidental on the timing of everything that they were working with with Mr Ron
00:40:53
Logan but at the same time I don't think that any of this stuff would have been Amplified or or magnified about Ron
00:41:01
Logan's actions that day until thec this all came about because those bodies were
00:41:08
found and of course he needs to be looked at they're found on his property then they very quickly figure out well
00:41:15
he violated some some of his uh probation rules right on this day you know he he he was um he drove to the
00:41:25
dump which does not appear I don't know if that was part of his parole violation
00:41:29
but he's not to be drinking and driving and he was at a bar either the night before or the or the day that they were
00:41:37
found or I'm sorry the day that they went missing more importantly he was at a bar and that's a big no no for Mr
00:41:45
Logan and they did they went after him pretty hard for all of that so I think that in this situation Captain Sheriff
00:41:53
lasenby can only answer for his actions where he's being asked a question that involves a judge and a prosecutor as
00:42:01
well and what went down with Ron Logan might be more of their actions than the sheriff's well
00:42:08
again another example of this is you put out these sketches and people are going
00:42:14
hey there's a sex offender in that area that kind of looks like this sketch check him out and then they go and find
00:42:23
out that the sex offender is not living where registered to be at arrest will be
00:42:28
made and the people will have to be punished for that it's just kind of you know it's it's just what happens and I
00:42:37
think in this case there's probably been a bunch of people that had nothing to do
00:42:41
with this crime but now are locked up or charges were brought against them because they weren't doing what they
00:42:48
were supposed to do with their life the next question is how many total tips have been received how many this year
00:42:55
how many this month and his answer is going to be vague but I think we can put in our own little work here and figure
00:43:02
this out he says total throughout the investigation is approximately five 50,000 total throughout this
00:43:10
investigation is approximately 50,000 so he's not giving an answer on how many tips have been submitted this year or
00:43:17
this month he's just giving a total number for the four years Al together I believe that it was in February AR or
00:43:26
March of 2020 that it was reported that they had received 43,000 tips roughly 43,000 tips at that
00:43:36
time so you do the math get out the old Abacus count it up on your fingers and toes it would appear that 7,000 roughly
00:43:44
would be in the last year the last 365 days so that's still a good amount of tips if if my math is in fact correct
00:43:54
there Captain yeah it's because this Comm Community wants to see this case solved when a tip comes in take us
00:43:59
through the step-by-step process of how that tip is processed by the tip line operator to how it is distributed to the
00:44:07
investigators please describe what tipsters are told and the followup and his answer is tips which come into the
00:44:15
system are entered into a database each tip is then reviewed by investigators and
00:44:21
prioritized email tips receive an automated response if investigators need additional information from a tipster
00:44:29
they contact that individual directly this is something we've talked about before plenty of times on the show
00:44:36
I've had people complain to me directly about other cases not Deli specifically but other cases where they say I've
00:44:43
submitted a tip to law enforcement that was a year ago I've never heard back from them that's not their job they're
00:44:50
not going to get back to you and say all right uh Colonel this is what we did with your tip buddy yeah you don't
00:44:56
submit a tip and then become a visor on on the case hey I submitted a tip so now do I get a be on the grand
00:45:06
jury no does doesn't work that way now of course there are agencies that are lazy and then there are other agencies
00:45:14
that just do their due diligence and go above and beyond and work their butts off and get get things solved but nine
00:45:22
times out of 10 if not even greater percentage than that you're not getting a call back or any type of followup
00:45:30
unless they need more information from you right normally whatever you give them if it's substantial they'll be able
00:45:38
to confirm or deny your request pretty quickly that's correct what I wish they would work harder on is like we've said
00:45:47
the a step in the right direction you you can't sit there and tell me that the profile is too close to the chest where
00:45:54
you can't sh share the profile I think that's what we should do we should get behind first our movement of stop Global
00:46:02
whining but also specific to this case let's well s and stop sniffing butts let's amp up this idea of hey if you got
00:46:13
a profile which they should I mean they they've worked on this case for four years if you've got a profile let's
00:46:21
release that to the public let's put that out there I I think it's well over do for that fact next question you
00:46:28
stated in last week's article the additional audio recording on Libby's cell phone would not be released but it
00:46:36
has been stated by the HLN interviewer that in fact an additional 2 minutes of recording was shared with the
00:46:45
family how can you justify this okay so what they're referencing here you stated
00:46:50
in last week's article they received so many questions that were sent into the Carol County comment for Sheriff lesen
00:46:59
that they actually had to run it backto back weeks because they had so many questions they gave them to the sheriff
00:47:06
and he said you know what I'll open this up to a second round of of questions this goes back to exactly what we were
00:47:13
talking about before we all know that there's additional audio we know that from what the family members have said
00:47:20
throughout this whole four years it's just it doesn't appear that any of that is a of any value to finding Bridge guy
00:47:29
somebody cleaned up that audio maybe it was the FBI maybe they had to have a local technician do it they probably
00:47:36
heard the extra audio I don't think there's any Monumental thing that we're going to learn from the extra audio
00:47:44
we're going to learn more from a profile being released than anything and I really I'm going to keep harping on this
00:47:51
but I think they should have released it because every profile I've seen from X FBI or or other individuals involved in
00:48:01
this case as far as like when they're being interviewed and they go well I think the individual is this or blah
00:48:06
blah blah if you put all that together there's a profile and we would have learned like I said so much more from
00:48:14
that profile than maybe even the sketch mhm and I think they believe that this individual is not a criminal has not
00:48:22
been in the system and that's why look everybody any like I said anytime there was a murder that took place or or there
00:48:31
was a registered sex offender or a rapist or whoever the whole True Crime World went oh that must be Bridge guy
00:48:40
mhm and so I think we've all been looking for a criminal the whole time and I don't think this individual is or
00:48:46
he's someone that has the ability to commit crimes and go undetected well I mean here's just a couple of things that
00:48:54
I gathered from these interviews crime was sexual is about power and control this individual was calm maybe so calm
00:49:03
that they're like a social path he's local the bridge was a trap he is normal he's not threatening he probably has a
00:49:12
good job probably makes more money than the average individual in Deli he's probably married has kids BTK killer
00:49:21
like mhm I mean that's that's a lot of stuff and or Golden State killer I mean you could the list goes on and on and on
00:49:31
of these these monsters that are able to live in different compartments live double lives right and go undetected and
00:49:41
may even be seen as an upstanding citizen in the community oh yeah that's a couple other things uh this individual
00:49:48
is somebody that nobody would believe is capable of a crime like this this individual is connected to a church
00:49:56
similar to Lake BTK well along those same lines Captain here we are again right in step with the the questions
00:50:04
that were provided and the answers that sheriff lesen gave to those questions it
00:50:10
says does a database exist that contains Carol County violent crime data if so how can the public access this this goes
00:50:19
to the idea that this would be some guy that is out committing crimes and we're aware that he's doing them that he's on
00:50:26
a list somewhere in a database and Sheriff Les's answer is obviously we have extensive records of each jail
00:50:33
booking which reflect each individual's particular arrest violation it can be publicly accessed
00:50:41
but the request must be specific to a person or their alleged arrest violation SL crime meaning you can't just get on
00:50:50
there and go I'm looking for somebody who did something Despicable out in the woods somewhere
00:50:56
and then you get a boom a list of people and you can go well Bridge guy might be
00:50:59
on this list somewhere no you need to be researching and looking up a specific person Andor their alleged arrest
00:51:08
violation and crime what sorts of information do investigators continue to look at for this case I love this answer
00:51:16
it's very vague but I think it's on point his answer is several aspects specifically associated with February 3r
00:51:25
13 2017 meaning that day is by far the most important day to these investigators
00:51:36
that know so much more than we do right than any other day as far as they're concerned that means the day that the
00:51:43
bodies were found the day before when they went missing is more important the day that soand so was arrested four
00:51:50
counties over for a sexual homicide no February 13th 2017 is more important than that day more important than any
00:51:59
day in any other suspect that came about via the public or the internet they know
00:52:06
that the one piece remember they're still looking for that one piece they say we will know what that one piece is
00:52:12
we'll be able to identify it as soon as it's presented to us or we we find it ourselves they know that the one piece
00:52:19
they're looking for is going to be some information that is based off of something that happened on February 13th
00:52:27
2017 yeah it could be something as small as putting a certain person in a certain
00:52:31
area at a certain time yeah and maybe what they're getting at with that is does this person have some kind of Alibi
00:52:41
that they don't believe is a good Alibi correct is this someone that was traveling on that day the thing that's
00:52:47
that's very interesting and one thing that we have to remind ourselves it's very easy to to get very confused and to
00:52:54
get torn apart by all this different stuff going on the minutia of this case of things that that have been presented
00:53:02
that probably have nothing to do with the solution to this investigation right you got to look at the very Bare Bones
00:53:10
of it and remind yourself of one simple fact okay we know that the Snapchat picture of the girls going across the
00:53:20
bridge was posted a little after 2 p.m. that day and then we have law enforcement on record stating that we
00:53:28
have strong reason to believe or almost at times talking about it like it's a fact that everything was over with said
00:53:36
and done at 3:30 p.m. so we know this dude Bridge guy was unaccounted for for that hour and a half 2:00 to 3:30 where
00:53:49
was he if you got somebody that you suspect and he wasn't at work at that time I don't care if he got off work
00:53:57
at45 I don't care if you saw him at 3:15 and he was clean as a whistle this guy was unaccounted for for that hour and a
00:54:05
half we know that to be fact and I think that's really what they're honing in on and in a roundabout
00:54:13
way maybe reminding the public of that as well yeah the colonel getting heated up next question do the investigators
00:54:21
follow tips from social media this is interesting one person a Sean Harmon posted that his father and son were
00:54:30
connected to the homicides and I gotta be fully honest here Captain right I don't know who Sean Harmon is but he's
00:54:38
he's listed in this article here yeah he's a guy that came forward and said hey my I believe my father and my son
00:54:46
had something to do with this and if you look at his father he looks like Bridge
00:54:51
guy number one the first sketch his son looks like Bridge guy number two the second sketch yeah and and his I believe
00:54:58
his son was a part of the military for a while so the weird thing to try to throw
00:55:05
your dad and your son under the bus at the same time and then you're named publicly as having done that yeah and so
00:55:12
what they want to know was this tip investigated fully and Sheriff lesby says the simple response is yes
00:55:20
information which is felt to be legitimate to the investigation is followed into this is not the arena for
00:55:28
speaking to a particular inquiry or tip but he's saying look if we find something on social media that we find
00:55:37
of interest to the case we'll investigate it if something's presented to us that came from social media that
00:55:43
we think is important to the investigation we follow up on it makes sense and then another followup question
00:55:49
to what we're really pounding on the desk for is there a profile of the killer or killers and his answer is it
00:55:57
has been discussed with experts so again I think we just need to Echo the idea of
00:56:04
its time to to Really strongly consider releasing that profile to the public now
00:56:10
Sheriff lesen be again I want to applaud him for taking up his valuable time to answer the questions of the community I
00:56:19
think it it shows his dedication to the investigation and shows his dedication to the the community that he serves and
00:56:27
to the community that his Department serves he does offer up a final comment that says it has been intriguing and
00:56:34
thought-provoking to be able to engage in these presented questions the past two weeks I realize not all agree with
00:56:42
my responses however I have received responses of the affirmative aspect too as Sheriff the utmost importance in my
00:56:51
opinion is the Integrity of the investigation the only way we will resolve to gain Justice for Abby and
00:56:58
Libby for their respective families and our caring Community is to remain dedicated to the preservation of said
00:57:05
Integrity I believe we wholeheartedly owe that to these two wonderful young ladies all right
00:57:12
Colonel or should I call you Billy Billy Goat what are your thoughts on this case four years later I'm losing
00:57:23
optimism and I've this in other cases as well and it doesn't take me much to get
00:57:28
back on board but I'm losing optimism I understand that tips have still come in I estimate 7,000 in the
00:57:39
last 365 days I question the quality of those tips we have 50,000 overall in the
00:57:47
investigation I think there's probably a lot of fluff in there that unfortunately
00:57:52
investigators have had to sift through I do not say that to try to deter anybody from reaching out to law
00:57:59
enforcement or providing a tip I want to be clear about that I'm I'm standing at
00:58:04
the top of the mountain and shouting it as loud as I can if you see something say something if you know something tell
00:58:11
law enforcement because I do believe 100% they are in fact just that one piece away I did like hearing the
00:58:19
sheriff say look that one piece what is it well our trained experts will know it
00:58:29
it's not something that will that will go be lost on us in the moment this is something that we will know right away I
00:58:39
also believe what I've said for the past year year and a half maybe even two years I had said at one point that I was
00:58:46
very optimistic believing that the case would have been solved by the end of that year and I I believe I said that in
00:58:53
2020 but I'm losing optimism in that way and a large part of it is going back to
00:59:01
something I've said all along I believe for whatever reason bridg guy had help that day or since then and this has been
00:59:10
a huge speed bump in the case it may have even sent detectives and investigators looking elsewhere I think
00:59:20
that someone is either willingly or unknowingly providing some type of false Alibi for bridge guy and his
00:59:31
whereabouts between I would say noon and 5:00 p.m. if you got a guy that you suspect or you think is capable of this
00:59:42
let's underline that capable of this because there's very few people capable of something like this if you don't know
00:59:49
where he was between noon and 5 and he's he's local or has reason to have been in
00:59:55
the deli area on February 13th right give that name to law enforcement that's how they're going to find their answer
01:00:04
what about what are your thoughts four years later I think you're exactly right I have somebody that I think is a
01:00:10
suspect I think their wife is their Alibi I think she's lied about The Alibi I think she has pieces of information
01:00:20
that prove possibly where they were to prove their alibi I think that's what's holding up law enforcement I think she's
01:00:27
lying about that I think it's easily provable that she is lying about it I believe that she has stated to people
01:00:35
that so glad we have an alibi so we don't become suspects I believe this is an individual that has a which is a
01:00:42
bizarre thing to say normal people don't say I'm glad that we have a timeline of
01:00:47
our whereabouts so we're not suspects and the fact of the matter is I know that she's lying I have information that
01:00:55
she's lying about your guys's whereabouts I think this individual makes good money nobody would
01:01:04
expect that he would do this he's connected to his church he has kids possibly grandkids I think he's older
01:01:13
than what they're claiming the suspect is in the drawing I think they said 17 to 40 I think he was older I think he
01:01:21
was late 40s but such a young face that he could look probably the late 30s and I think he's local he entered on foot
01:01:31
exit on foot he knows the area he knows all all the properties around there that's the direction he goes to enter
01:01:41
the park he uses that bridge when he enters the park and I think he was able to get to a place of safety without
01:01:52
being detected being covered in blood and to be able to get to a facility where he could get rid of all the
01:02:01
evidence all his clothes I think again he makes more money than the average person in Deli his house is worth
01:02:09
anywhere from five to six times more than the average house average property in Deli again I think this is an
01:02:16
individual that nobody around him thinks he's even capable of this but I think this is about it's a crime
01:02:25
of sexual nature power control he remained calm I think this individual is very smart he's very intelligent Beyond
01:02:36
college graduate school again leader of a company this is his second career already had a career this is his second
01:02:46
career I believe maybe there's somebody in his Circle that suspects him and if you do
01:02:54
call pick up the phone and just say look I I know this guy and and I I suspect him I also believe that this person
01:03:03
claimed at one point that they're going to leave the area due to it not being safe and maybe they've even lied about
01:03:11
selling property or leaving the area and anyone out there scratching their heads
01:03:16
right now going well how would this person be respected in the community how would this guy not be known how
01:03:25
how do we not know the people that know this man the best how do they not suspect him well keep in mind Dennis
01:03:31
Raider BTK volunteered at his church for years and he used the church's property
01:03:42
to carry out at least one of his murders nobody in the church knew this guy was capable of doing what he did
01:03:50
what we now know for fact that Dennis Raider did and he did it time and time again in this case in
01:03:58
Deli the one thing that I am most confident about and what can be what puts this
01:04:06
monster into a different category than someone that just goes out and commits a crime of passion or some dumb criminal
01:04:17
that does a crime on impulse mhm is I think a big reason why he seemed so calm on that day so relaxed and you almost
01:04:29
hear it in his tone is because he has fantasized about aspects of this crime for years he's thought about it for
01:04:39
years and he was acting on those fantasies when he went out there on February 13th I would not be surprised
01:04:48
if he was acting on those same fantasies at an earlier date while he sat there watch watching and waiting looking for
01:04:57
what he would determine to be the perfect victim and for whatever reason he acted on February 13th but the one
01:05:06
thing we we do know that he has not done is he has not since told somebody else I'm the one that killed those two girls
01:05:16
I'm the bridge guy if he has told someone else the person that has received that information from this guy
01:05:24
has such a little heart and such a little soul or maybe no soul at all that they've not reported that to anyone I
01:05:34
think this individual when they released the new drawing the new sketch that they
01:05:41
eased up a little bit and went they're further away from me than I think they are but look the Stampede is coming your
01:05:52
flood is coming and they're not going to let you on to Noah's Ark they're going to catch
01:05:58
you and you'll probably crumble like a baby and tell them anything and everything they want to know to try to
01:06:07
spare your own life what you deserve is death that's what you deserve and your flood is coming my
01:06:15
friend and I hope they don't even give you the option to take that off the table I hope they're holding so much
01:06:21
close to their chest and not telling the public because when they get you this is personal to them
01:06:29
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