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older terms and conditions apply [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always a man that needs no introduction at all because yeah he's
00:02:06
kind of here every week the captain do we have a beer of the week we do we do we got another one for yaa 23's wish
00:02:14
list here this week Captain we got one of my favorite brewing companies zap Brewing
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out of Columbus Ohio they claim Worthington but that's really just North Columbus Ohio this week we're drinking
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Juicy Lucy by zap Tig garage grade 4 and A4 bottle caps out of five juicy Loosey
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is zaap tig's take on a traditional American IPA this juicy bomb is a double dry hop and they use Citra hops to give
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it a subtle light fruity cut to the Hops I love the new location if you're in North Columbus make sure you check them
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out this beer this week is brought To Us by Rachel of North Carolina Claire in North Hollywood California Kirk in
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Thorton Colorado and Melinda in Baton Rouge thank you guys for chipping in and helping us buy fill up the fridge this
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Donate button cheers and again if you want to check out the store at truecrimegarage you can
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garage that's enough of the business grab a chair grab a beer and let's talk some true
00:03:31
[Music] crime this is true crime garage and this is the case of Christy [Music] Mullin the summer of 19
00:04:01
1975 August 23rd 14-year-old Christy Mullin accompanies her friend Carol Reeves to
00:04:09
the wulco department store Carol had received a phone call from a disc jockey inviting her to a
00:04:19
cheerleading contest in the parking lot of the department store the girls had cut through the
00:04:26
woods arriving in the parking lot promptly at 1:45 p.m. the disc jockey that they're
00:04:37
looking for is nowhere to be found and they do not see a contest in sight Christy Mullins sits on the guard
00:04:49
rail Carol Reeves she goes into the department store to check to see what time it is
00:05:04
just a few minutes later Carol Reeves returns to the parking lot Christy Mullin is
00:05:18
[Music] gone this week we have a very strange case strange indeed the case the murder
00:05:29
case of Christy Mullins this takes place August 23 1975 in North Columbus Ohio 14-year-old Christy Mullins is swimming
00:05:39
at a pool at an apartment complex on Broad Meadows Boulevard when her 14-year-old friend Carol Reeves asked
00:05:47
her to go to the shopping center around 1:30 p.m. Christy's friend Carol had received
00:05:54
a call from somebody claiming that he was a radio disc jockey and he was having a contest it was like a
00:06:00
cheerleading contest and the prize was going to be a pass to the upcoming Ohio State Fair christe and her friend Carol
00:06:08
walked to the wco department store at the Graceland Shopping Center that was just blocks from her home the disc
00:06:16
jockey had said that the contest would take place in the parking lot at 1:45 p.m. the girls they walked through the
00:06:24
woods there was a cut through you could take a couple different paths from the apartment complex to the uh shopping
00:06:33
Center when they arrived they were unable to find the disc jockey and they couldn't see any contest taking place
00:06:41
Carol who was excited about the contest decided that she would go into the wco store to double check the time to make
00:06:48
sure that they had arrived on time when she comes back out she's only in the store for a few minutes she comes back
00:06:54
out and her friend Christy is gone when she last Saw Christy Mullins Christy was
00:06:59
sitting on the guard rail they had a a long stretch of guard rail there near the department store she had sat there
00:07:06
and she was she was waiting for her friend combing her hair and just a few minutes go by and Carol comes back and
00:07:11
christe's gone Carol waited about 20 minutes for christe to return uh and when she did
00:07:18
not return she went to the home of another friend of of hers shortly after Christy disappeared around 2:20 in the
00:07:27
afternoon a man named Henry n Jr he's 23 years of age of Kenowa Avenue now Kena Avenue is about three blocks from the
00:07:38
Graceland Shopping Center he was walking in the woods with his wife Pamela and their 5-year-old daughter when he heard
00:07:46
screams and he ran to investigate where these screams were coming from what was going on when no arrived in the area of
00:07:53
the screams he saw a white man about 18 or 19 years old wearing cut off shorts no shirt with long black hair and he's
00:08:02
swinging a 2x4 bored and he's beating something into the ground no looked and saw that
00:08:08
it was a woman or a girl that the man was beating with the large board he saw the man strike the girl in
00:08:15
the head about three or four times with vicious deadly blows the killer then saw
00:08:20
n and took off running he went running South in the woods to flee the area n ran up to the girl who was laying on the
00:08:28
ground and and he becomes emotional when the girl is laying there lifeless and there is the board that she was being
00:08:35
struck with is laying across her body he picks up the board and he he like launches it into the woods he throws it
00:08:42
into the woods and then he takes off his shirt I mean mind you she's badly beaten
00:08:48
in the head in the face and he takes off his shirt and he covers her up he covers
00:08:53
up her head n then went to the department store to call for help uh he was very upset he was pretty mad
00:09:02
and he and several store employees started searching the area behind the store looking for the as
00:09:10
salent when police arrived at the shopping center Henry n LED them to christe's body police said that later that evening
00:09:20
a woman came into the store and told police that she had seen a man earlier that matched the description of the man
00:09:27
police were looking for the as salent had been riding a bicycle and had rode past her home which was just south of
00:09:35
the shopping center on Monday August 25th The Columbus Dispatch which which is a local
00:09:42
the major local newspaper featured the composite drawing of the suspect the person believed to be christe's killer
00:09:51
this prompted hundreds of calls to police most of them were calls coming from the north side of Columbus and a
00:09:58
lot of them near the Graceland Shopping Center Detective Tom Jones said that more than a dozen calls seem especially
00:10:06
promising Jones said investigators have canvased hundreds of homes in the area Apartments buildings uh and businesses
00:10:15
in search of more eyewitnesses detective Jones was very confident that they would find other
00:10:20
Witnesses who had seen the a killer before after the murder took place Jones also stated that in 15 years as a hom
00:10:29
iide detective in Columbus that this was one of the most brutal beatings that he
00:10:33
had ever seen and although police at the time were pursuing several other theories the strongest theory that they
00:10:40
were going with was that the girl was forced into the woods by a man who wanted to molest her and then killed her
00:10:47
when she struggled that was the same that her F that Christy mullen's father same statement he would give to the
00:10:54
newspaper that same day that that he believed that she wouldn't have gone into the woods with somebody willingly
00:11:00
well her hands were tied as well right yes there there is one source that says that her hands were bound yeah with
00:11:08
a telephone wire now the detectives they were going on that theory but they were also
00:11:15
checking uh reports of molestations in the area and they were doing what they were called referring to as backtracking
00:11:22
saying that many times when someone is molested or assaulted sexually assaulted that they don't actually report it but
00:11:29
when they read in the paper that a 14-year-old girl is is murdered then they will come forward and say such and
00:11:37
such assaulted me or so and so uh you know we were involved in an altercation these reports would come out later with
00:11:45
hopes of helping solve a much more brutal crime the next day Tuesday uh officer Thomas stad he's working foot
00:11:54
patrol and traffic Patrol down in the downtown area the corner of Street and he notices
00:12:02
a face in the crowd there's a group of about 10 people walking and he notices a man in his 20s and he approaches the man
00:12:12
and what what stood out to him was the hair of the gentleman the way that the hair kind of stood out from the face and
00:12:19
the the length of it was almost exactly that of the composite drawing that he had seen in the dispatch the day before
00:12:26
kind of looks like a mallet right yeah you definitely yeah a mullet or like a uh like a
00:12:32
slickback kind of alucino kind of thing after you haven't combed it backward in a while you know uh somebody on Twitter
00:12:39
said he looked like a redneck version of Jerry sandfeld okay um anyway officer Stout
00:12:47
approaches the man and he asks the man for some identification the man provided the officer with his draft card
00:12:54
registration number so for those of you that don't know that's something I guess
00:12:58
that people used to carry around with them back in 1975 officer stoud he arrests the man on
00:13:06
probable cause because he looks exactly like the composite drawing and he says that the man went without incident there
00:13:12
was no resistance police identify the arrested man as 25-year-old Jack Carmen police take Jack down to the police
00:13:21
department they're going to call in Henry n Jr who had seen the attack take place and he brings his wife with him
00:13:28
and they conduct an identification lineup now him and his wife would successfully pick Jack Carman out of the
00:13:35
police lineup after the positive ID is made police sit down with Jack and they put him through some questioning for
00:13:43
about 6 hours during the course of that questioning Jack Carmen admits to the rape and killing of 14-year-old Christy
00:13:52
Mullen detective Thomas straussberg would talk with media after the questioning and after the confession and
00:13:59
he would tell the newspaper that Jack Carman is in very very poor mental condition he also does not have the
00:14:06
ability to read or write Jack was living at The Volunteers of America dormatory at 379 West Broad Street Jack also does
00:14:15
not drive a car detective strawberg would go on to say that Jack Carmen while he did confess to the rape and
00:14:22
killing of Christy Mullen that Jack was uncertain why he would have been at the Graceland Shopping Center
00:14:29
he said that he was unsure how he happened to get there but he may have gone there to buy a shirt Andor some
00:14:37
pants uh and then he would go on to say that he was also uncertain what he did after the murder itself other than the
00:14:44
fact that he knew that he stayed in the Columbus area he said that most likely after he killed her he probably got on a
00:14:52
bus and headed back to the downtown Columbus area police trying to corroborate Jack carman's confession
00:15:00
they announced that they were looking and trying to find a bus driver a Kota bus driver who might have seen Jack
00:15:09
Carmen or had noticed a shirtless man wearing cut off jeans that could have had blood spatter blood specks on their
00:15:18
on their cut off jeans now they also would go on to say that there's a possibility because she was beat to
00:15:24
death with a board that those that the blood spots would be so small that could have gone notied by a local bus driver
00:15:31
police did recover more than one pair of shorts from a rag container at The Volunteers of America dormatory where
00:15:38
Jack Carmen was staying they couldn't confirm if they were Jack shorts or not but they did have some stains on them
00:15:44
and they had sent them off to a chemist to be tested uh DNA tested well not DNA at the time but they wanted to test to
00:15:51
see if they were blood human blood on the shorts I want to Circle back to the phone call real quick Captain remember
00:15:58
the phone call that the girl received from the disc jockey mhm asking about the could you come down to the
00:16:04
cheerleading contest we're giving away passes to the Ohio State Fair it's kind of a weird contest for a radio station
00:16:11
to have yeah but they were using the police were using that as their lead that was their lead until the
00:16:18
description of the man went out and somebody had found a guy that looked exactly like the description uhhuh well
00:16:24
after they arrest Jack Carmen they're going to well let's talk about the phone call real quick okay so a little more
00:16:31
detail about the phone call the phone call was actually answered by Christy mullen's friend's mother now that was
00:16:39
Carol Reeves is Christy's friend so the phone call was answered by Carol Reeves mother and she said that the caller did
00:16:47
ask for Carol by name now Carol would go on to say that the man spoke with an Appalachian accent and she did not
00:16:56
recognize the man's voice nor did she have any idea who the caller was other than she believed he was who he said he
00:17:03
was a disc jockey with the local radio station yeah wasn't there some speculation to that there was actually
00:17:08
calls earlier that week yeah there was and that that's why I had to circle back to the phone call because after the
00:17:15
arrest of Jack Carmen police released a statement to the media that that phone call had simply that it was simply a
00:17:23
fluke that Jack Carmen this Maniac killer ended up in the same location where these two girls were because they
00:17:30
had went on this prank phone call what the police are now deeming as a as a prank phone call right and he just
00:17:37
happened to be in the area and he happened to grab Christy Mullins and pull her into the woods even though that
00:17:42
there was phone calls made earlier that week correct yes the authorities did this is a bunch of bunch of fluke phone
00:17:49
calls yeah there were several of these phone calls and they were all made in that same area these were all North Side
00:17:55
girls who had called into police and told them that they had received received similar phone calls that same
00:18:01
week which is very similar like we were saying earlier uh outside of the garage to the Amy mahalic
00:18:08
case after the announcement of Jack carman's arrest his former foster parents come out and they start talking
00:18:15
to the newspapers and they are saying you know he is his mental state he's he's at the level of a child and not
00:18:25
only that that they they don't believe that he could have done this now it's typical that family members don't
00:18:30
believe that somebody a loved one is responsible for a heinous crime like this I mean this is somebody that had
00:18:36
was being charged with beating a girl to death after raping her right he's mentally handicapped extremely ment
00:18:43
mentally handicapped he he doesn't drive he doesn't read he doesn't write and but
00:18:47
what the foster parents would go on to say is that that Jack would kind of do anything you told him to that he would
00:18:54
also you could lead him anywhere you know uh when he was younger if he did something and the Foster father said
00:19:03
Jack did you do this he would immediately confess whether it was something he did or not right and then
00:19:08
just minutes later the Foster father would say no Jack you didn't do it and then he he would just agree yes I did it
00:19:16
and then a minutes later no I didn't right um and not only that they said that that he never that he never heard
00:19:22
anybody they they actually believed that a small child could probably overpower Jack because he wouldn't understand the
00:19:30
situation he wouldn't understand that there was a struggle or a fight going on and furthermore the police would would
00:19:37
come back to media and say no that's impossible we know this guy did it because he led us to the crime scene he
00:19:44
led us to where the body was found now the foster parents would come out shortly afterwards and say that's
00:19:49
impossible we believe that the police must have walked Jack there and pointed to the spot and said this is where this
00:19:56
took place or is this the he disagreed yeah and he he would just agree the other thing that the foster
00:20:03
parents were curious about was Jack had admitted to raping Christy Mullen well there there's a lot of contradiction
00:20:12
here because an autopsy that was conducted they could not confirm that she was raped now she was found her
00:20:20
pants were unzipped and her top was pulled up M but other than that they couldn't find any evidence of a or
00:20:29
sexual assault but the top could have came up during the actual beating part correct correct or or there could have
00:20:35
been been an attempted rape that that was never successful that ended up in the demise of Christy Mullen the foster
00:20:42
parents would go on to say that yeah Jack confessed to raping Christie but would somebody please ask Jack what the
00:20:50
word rape means because we guarantee he doesn't even know what that word means right I mean how can you confess to
00:20:58
something that you don't even you don't even know the definition of it yeah so they're they're leading this guy and he
00:21:03
confesses to it and then they're going to take him to trial September 2nd 1975 a grand jury indicts Jack Carman for
00:21:12
rape kidnapping and three various accounts of Murder in the death of Christy Mullins and the very next day
00:21:22
on September 3rd Jack Carman he agrees to a plea bargain in which charges are reduced to one count of aggravated
00:21:29
murder in exchange for his guilty plea and he sentenced to life in prison so let's review this real quick Captain
00:21:37
because things are happening very fast here right mhm things are happening very fast to a guy that is that is mentally
00:21:45
handicap uh and that we have already talked about might go along with whatever the group is telling him to do
00:21:51
or go along with yeah hence the plea bargain yeah on on August 23rd Christy Mullins is killed on August
00:21:59
6 uh Jack carman's arrested that's just 3 days later on on September 2nd he's indicted for three counts of murder and
00:22:08
then on the third he pleas guilty to one count of murder so this takes place all
00:22:14
within the course of 11 days from Death to conviction it's around this same time
00:22:20
that workers at The Volunteers of America on West Broad Street where the mentally disabled Jack Carmen live they
00:22:28
start reporting that they had seen Jack that day and that he was at that location as late as 1:45 p.m. in the
00:22:37
afternoon now remember we said Jack didn't drive a car so he relied on kabus to take him everywhere that he went and
00:22:45
roughly the murder took place about 220 225 according to the eyewitness that had
00:22:50
seen the girl being beat in the head he said that around 220 he had seen Jack Carmen beating the girl in the woods
00:22:58
well that's that's a bit of a stretch so it's 16 minutes by car with no traffic from that location on the west side of
00:23:06
Columbus all the way up to the north side of Columbus 16 minutes so if they' saw him at45 that puts him there about
00:23:13
2011 but now she wasn't just she was taken from from the side of the department store brought into the woods
00:23:20
I mean maybe by car but anybody that's traveled by bus they know that that bus moves a lot slower than a car and you
00:23:27
got to stop and make all those different stops right mhm well what's interesting
00:23:32
is okay they they claim that they got there at 145 we don't know that for sure right we we're we're approximating
00:23:42
correct that they get there at 145 it never states that she went and checked and oh by the way it was 145 they were
00:23:51
on time I do think she was excited about the contest so I think they were on time
00:23:57
um but then she comes back 10 minutes later so she would have so you're trying to tell me that Christy Mullins would
00:24:05
just be wandering off for no reason it seems like there was that window of opportunity for somebody to lure lore I
00:24:13
can't speak today L but the captain I I like the captain always adds five minutes to timelines because this
00:24:20
forwards and backwards yeah this is this is 1975 people aren't walking around with with cell phones now they do have
00:24:26
wrist watches obviously but what you're saying here if we add 5 minutes I have a
00:24:31
uh wristatch on right now and it's not working so it's right twice a day exactly so if we're saying by the
00:24:39
captain's timeline that if they did arrive on time at 1:45 and if the friend Carol was in the department store for 10
00:24:46
minutes she would have came back out at 1:55 maybe 2:00 at the latest that means
00:24:52
jack Carmen would have had to have taken a car straight from the West Broad location all the way up to to the
00:24:58
Graceland Shopping Center well he wouldn't have taken a car he would have taken a bus but exactly but that was the
00:25:04
that's the only way is what I'm saying to get there in that amount of time and we know when you go to the home then you
00:25:10
got to go back and forth okay did he leave at40 or did he leave at 150 or is that this the last time they saw him and
00:25:19
that he was actually just there the whole time these workers as said came forward saying that there's no way that
00:25:24
he could have arrived in time to commit the murder now not not only that there's
00:25:29
people that start checking the the police didn't check this the detectives did not check this mhm they just
00:25:36
believed the confession now these people start checking and they start signing petitions to that he needs to be retried
00:25:45
that they need to do a new a more thorough investigation because according to the bus schedule and according to the
00:25:52
transit authority there's no way that he could have made it from the west side of
00:25:56
Columbus at 145 to be at that location at grin shopping center at 2:20 p.m. yeah in 1975 it' probably be a lot
00:26:05
easier to make the drive traffic was probably less than it is now um but also it to me it seems like the cops are more
00:26:17
worried about closing the case than they are uh finding the truth and I think that happens a lot in cases and we
00:26:26
really need to put pressure on the police to be looking for the truth not just looking
00:26:31
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that they earn through chores or from getting good grades or from birthdays and Christmas the Greenlight app works
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for you it's an app made for families sign up for Greenlight today at greenlight.com
00:33:12
garage that's greenlight.com garage greenlight.com garage well let's think about some
00:33:21
things that are going on in the world at this time period so this is the summer of 75 and we had covered at the
00:33:27
beginning of this season the Son of Sam well the Son of Sam murders started taking place Late July mid to late July
00:33:36
of the same summer so New York City has got a maniac running around killing people they haven't solved that crime
00:33:44
there's there's more victims the victims are adding up okay and then you have a 14-year-old girl in Columbus who is
00:33:51
murdered this is a well-populated area it's Clintonville Ohio North Columbus there's
00:33:57
a lot of people there today there was a lot of people back in 1975 this is a well populated area and all of a sudden
00:34:04
they got a maniac on the locd killing kids in the woods you know and so killed a kid yeah right and but this was front
00:34:12
on the front page of the major newspaper at the time the dispatch MH and this was
00:34:17
a crime that you're exactly right the cops were very concerned about solving this you saw the picture you saw the
00:34:24
composite drawing that they put in the newspaper the guy looks like a maniac he I mean he he he looks like somebody
00:34:31
you'd be afraid of him then you heard that he raped and beat to beat a girl to death with a board yeah 2x4 so um yeah
00:34:39
but here it goes back to my original thought though is we I understand that there's pressure to solve a case but the
00:34:48
pressure should never be to close a case or just solve a case or you know to finish things the pressure should always
00:34:55
be to find the truth and I think they just came across a guy that was mentally handicapped I think they interrogated
00:35:02
him they you know I think their tactics probably were questionable and they got a confession out of a guy that didn't
00:35:10
know what he was talking about now you have to sign a confession right uhhuh okay Jack Carmen Couldn't Write the the
00:35:19
police said he couldn't read or write so so let me get this right I'm going to have to write out your con if I'm the
00:35:25
officer I have to write and your jack car mhm I have to write out the confession
00:35:29
for you right right and and I put a little X at the bottom and say here Jack sign here and not only did I write the
00:35:36
confession for you but you can't even read it to know if that's what you told me correct right and most of the time
00:35:44
they'll they'll just hand you a piece of paper and they go just write down everything you know they leave the room
00:35:50
a tactic that I've heard that uh detectives use often is they won't even read it they'll just come back and say
00:35:58
uh I'm guessing there's some lies in here so just rewrite it so they had to write out the confession for him and
00:36:06
probably put a x by it so again he can't read what he what they wrote um now working in the banking industry I I
00:36:15
dealt with a lot of mentally handicapped and they would have a signature that they would sign mhm so that a lot of
00:36:22
them could sign some kind of signature um so I'm I'm assuming that uh Jack did that yeah I would guess
00:36:31
that he that he signed I mean he had some identification with him usually that requires a signature as well he's
00:36:37
25 years old I'm sure that he had some kind of signature or a scribble that that he used as a signature um oh
00:36:44
whether it's a scribble or not that's his signature have you seen my signature my signature is is a scribble yeah is a
00:36:50
scribble and I'm no doctor September 8th this is just 5 days after the guilty plea more than 70 people attend a
00:36:57
meeting at Sharon township hall to question the police investigation shortly after the meeting this is when
00:37:04
they estab establish the justice for Jack committee yeah and basically what this committee is doing what everybody
00:37:12
should have been done doing for the from the get-go is they're pushing the issue
00:37:17
for look if he did it fine but let's uh get to the truth let's review the other evidence
00:37:26
though too I mean we talked about about the timeline that that it was impossible
00:37:29
for him to make it there well it's highly unlikely very unlikely but the the the test of the shorts nothing comes
00:37:37
of that right they couldn't even confirm that they were his shorts at the time being in 19 uh75 they're probably
00:37:43
looking for blood and then just to see if the blood matches like her type of blood yeah or if if it was even blood at
00:37:51
all that was that had stained the shorts I wonder if uh it was Jorts you know jean shorts I it was jean shorts the cut
00:37:59
off yeah cut offs old shorts uh the other evidence here is they couldn't find a bus driver remember they had said
00:38:06
hold on if you're listening in your garage right now and you're drinking a nice Brew right yeah and you look down
00:38:13
and you're wearing Jorts just get up take your Jorts off throw them in the trash light them on fire just don't wear
00:38:21
Jorts wait no no I disagree if you are in the garage drinking a beer uhhuh and you look down and you're wearing jeans I
00:38:29
want you to stand up take them off get a pair of scissors and cut them into just
00:38:34
above the knee and then throw them in the trash or send me your picture of your Jorts on Instagram all right got
00:38:42
sidetracked there all right but on November 19th of the same year a court appointed attorney Richard Addison files
00:38:50
a motion to set aside Carmen's guilty plea and conviction on grounds that Carmen is mentally incompetent yeah they
00:38:58
they gave him a new lawyer technically mhm yeah so I find that interesting and I think probably at this point the
00:39:04
police are starting to backpedal like what are we doing or what is what we doing uh morally correct and you know
00:39:12
what I have no evidence of this but uh other than the fact that he did get a new attorney um I suspect the first
00:39:21
attorney might have just told him to plead guilty I mean that's that's the gist of it right yeah and the da and and
00:39:30
everybody is connected they all know each other a lot of people play golf together so who knows it could have just
00:39:36
been like look we have a bunch of a mountain of evidence saying he did it and then the attorney just said okay
00:39:43
cool but that it was after the plea that they come out with The Alibi mhm and I think if the defense uh attorney the
00:39:51
first one knew about The Alibi they probably would have said wait a second what's going on here well keep in mind
00:39:57
everything was happening very fast I mean he he was arrested on the 26th at the end of August and the the first
00:40:03
couple days of September he's pled guilty um so they're piecing this together here and for for this type of
00:40:11
murder conviction don't give a [ __ ] about fast though some should have been spent on this right that's what I'm
00:40:16
saying I don't give a [ __ ] about uh fast I give a [ __ ] about correct but you know
00:40:22
what I do give a [ __ ] about people coming together for the right reasons wearing s together and coming together
00:40:28
for the right reasons and you had you had those people those 70 people that attended the meeting in Sharon Township
00:40:35
uh and you have and you have the lantern okay that was the Ohio State newspaper right right the lantern there was a
00:40:43
couple of gentlemen there that so this is a College Newspaper correct College Newspaper a couple of reporters there
00:40:49
they start doing covering this story and they're the ones that start voicing to the public that hey there's something
00:40:55
going on here that this guy has been convicted wrongly convicted of this terrible crime and Clintonville is north
00:41:03
of Campus so it's not this really doesn't have anything to do with the campus area but it's a publication
00:41:10
regardless and then in late December of the same year Columbus monthly which is a magazine today I'm assuming it was a
00:41:18
magazine back then as well but they decide to cover the same story that the Lantern's covering they they bring in
00:41:25
the same uh invest ative journalist and have them release their story on a much larger scale so you said that's released
00:41:35
in December so that's what 3 months after the correct correct December 29th Columbus monthly released their J
00:41:47
January 1976 issue uh that covered the case and covered the story so then once he gets his new attorney now they're set
00:41:56
to go to actual trial with a jury well what takes place is January 30th of 76 Jack Carmen's conviction is set aside
00:42:06
and a competency hearing is ordered and what did they find during that competency hearing so it took a few
00:42:14
months to figure this out but at the in the end uh in miday of that same year a judge a judge ruled that Carmen's civil
00:42:23
rights were violated by the Columbus Police Department and and and that's based I think on the
00:42:30
interrogation yes and here's here's what I like uh I find this odd you know when
00:42:35
somebody when somebody when they confess to a crime yeah you know when you hear like this
00:42:41
this mentally handicap person was stuck in a room for 6 hours we were questioning him no 6 hours that's an
00:42:49
interrogation let's I mean questioning and interrogation those are two different words right yes they are
00:42:56
Captain Obvious but it's a way of skewing what you're actually doing right yeah but you
00:43:02
originally reported that they were questioning him for 6 hours I wanted to just chime in and go 6 hours is a long
00:43:09
time that's an interrogation those were the words of the Columbus Police Department as given to the local
00:43:15
newspaper at the time all right so his civil rights are um violated and what else so the prosecutors appeal that
00:43:25
ruling and then Jack Carman is ultimately granted a new trial on December 19th 1976 after a 6-day trial in
00:43:37
849 days behind bars Jack Carmen is acquitted in a retrial and he's set free you're skipping over a lot of stuff go
00:43:47
go ahead Captain all right so who do they call as their Prime witness I don't know they call Henry null ah and Henry h
00:43:56
n Jr and where do they find Henry null at is he in jail yeah he's in jail do you
00:44:04
know what he's in jail for um he burnt down his own home and so he burns down his own own home and he's put in jail an
00:44:14
accident I'm assuming oh yeah no it was it was arson and so they pull him out of
00:44:19
jail and they bring him to the courtroom and then the defense attorney basically
00:44:24
combats everything he says and the jury doesn't believe a damn word he says and they actually
00:44:32
believe Henry is responsible for the murder M and that was the Christy mullen's family had believed that from
00:44:39
from the beginning I mean right when back in September of 75 when the local towns people started getting together
00:44:47
and questioning the guilt of Jack Carmen her family flipped almost immediately and said and you know they they didn't
00:44:54
believe this Henry Newell story at all yeah but now what's weird about his story is you know he's walking in the
00:45:02
woods with his wife and his son right or daughter I can't remember it's their 5-year-old daughter okay so now you have
00:45:12
to go against what Henry is saying you got to go against what his wife is saying and obviously they're not going
00:45:17
to question the 5-year-old yeah let's think about what he said he said that him and his wife
00:45:23
and daughter are walking through the woods he hears some screams and he decides he's going to run to investigate
00:45:29
where those screams are coming from right run towards the danger yep he runs towards the danger he sees a tall white
00:45:37
man shirtless white man in Jorts with long black hair swinging a 2x4 which they actually said was probably only
00:45:45
about 2T long M um you know as a broken off or cut off uh board and Swinging this 2x4 and what he he says at first
00:45:57
beating he sees him beating something into the ground and he looks down and it's a it's a girl or a woman that he's
00:46:03
hitting in the head he sees the as salent hit this person in the head three or four times he then says that the
00:46:11
asent turns and looks at him and they looked each other in the eyes and after this Maniac had seen Henry n he drops
00:46:20
the board across the body of the girl and he takes off running well let's think about what Henry decid decides to
00:46:27
do then all right he says I'm emotional I I became overwhelmed with the emotion and I ran up to the girl now he must
00:46:34
have noticed that she was that she was dead or or or beyond help at that point right because he he he says in
00:46:41
frustration I picked up the board I threw it into the woods and I took off my shirt and I put it over her head no I
00:46:52
could see myself removing the board from her body I could see myself doing that uh I could also see myself pulling off a
00:46:59
piece of clothing once I if I knew she was passed away if I knew she was deceased I could see myself covering her
00:47:07
face out of respect you know just you know or not wanting to see it I guess so I it's I to me that's not super
00:47:16
far-fetched I think it's a clever story that he came up with at the time you know I think that it's a way to explain
00:47:24
away my fingerprints on the board and why my shirt is covered in her blood right and second of all I think the act
00:47:32
of covering her face with my shirt implies that he believed she was beyond help and that she was dead at the time
00:47:40
that he ran up to her body so let's think about this right if if she's dead when I find her then I could obviously I
00:47:48
couldn't have killed her and I'm a man in my young 20s right you're not you're not well well Henry null is um I'm I'm
00:47:56
Henry right now in the woods shirtless and so he was 23 I believe at the time and so his wife would have been about
00:48:05
the same approximately same age so my wife and young daughter are in this woods somewhere I just left them and ran
00:48:11
towards the danger and I chased away this Maniac this this bloodthirsty Maniac that just ran through the woods
00:48:19
right so and I determined that the girl is dead but he doesn't have his weapon anymore so okay keep going but what is
00:48:27
my first reaction I run to the department store and I call for help the W Co yeah I and I guess everybody would
00:48:36
would react differently so maybe I shouldn't go read too much into this but to me my first thought would be [ __ ]
00:48:42
this maniac's in this woods and my wife and my daughter are in this Woods too right I I don't know that I would flee
00:48:49
the woods and search for help I would want to help that I'd probably be yelling for help but I'd also be calling
00:48:55
for my wife and my daughter to make sure that I'm there to protect them well yeah
00:49:00
but part of me thinks that if I saw that I'd be sizing the guy up and then uh I mean I hate cardio but I think I think
00:49:09
part of me would have just um you know what they say a fight or flight I think I would have went towards the fight
00:49:15
instead of staying with the body but I guess I guess also if you're coming up on somebody and you don't know if
00:49:21
they're deceased or not that maybe that hesitation by the time you look up the guy's already long gone now at least one
00:49:28
eyewitness that was that was at the W Co store when Henry n arrived there to call
00:49:35
he says he ran there to call for help right right one eyewitness says that he thought or sorry it never explained if
00:49:45
it's a he or she but they had thought that Henry looked to have become upset and angered when he was informed that
00:49:52
the cops had been called and it was after this time that him and several of the wco employees went outside of the
00:50:00
department store to look for the killer to look for the maniac all right so Henry goes to wco
00:50:06
to call the police basically or get help he he's trying to get help from the wo that's hard to say wulco um
00:50:17
department store he's trying so maybe he's not trying to call the police he's just trying to get help in general but
00:50:22
so you but then you claim that somebody says he looks uh visibly upset once they say the cops
00:50:30
are on their way yes and then then it's after that uh that he goes outside and with some of the wco employees looking
00:50:39
for the killer now this is just one eyewitness his account I mean who knows he could have been shaken up by what he
00:50:46
had just seen and he wasn't you know it could have been whatever the reaction it's just interesting to me that that
00:50:52
little tidbit was in the newspaper at the time I do know know that n and his wife Pamela they were questioned for a
00:51:03
couple hours after the incident now a lot of that's probably just you know you can say question because it was only a
00:51:09
couple hours yeah and a lot of that's probably what did you see what were you and I witness of right you know going
00:51:17
over the description of the man um but here's one thing that you asked me earlier that was that was interesting I
00:51:25
kind of danced around it because I didn't want to go too much into it at the time but you had asked I had said
00:51:31
that no and his wife had ident positively identified Jack Carmen as the man that they had seen in the woods mhm
00:51:40
well here's some issues that I have with this right okay and you had asked were they did they did they do the lineup at
00:51:47
the same time were they did they ID him at the same time I don't know if that actually made it in after an edit but
00:51:53
okay but yeah that was my question was did they go in to do the identification of Jack Carmen together or did they just
00:52:02
do it separate because to me I I feel like uh legally you should do it separate or it doesn't hold up in court
00:52:09
legally you should do it separate but let's also review his story his story says that he ran ahead of his wife and
00:52:18
the killer ran off and I guess maybe maybe what we're missing we don't know all the details cuz the police don't
00:52:24
release every detail to the new newspapers but according to that story how I wish they would though did his
00:52:31
wife actually see the killer or did the or did she just see the back of him or was she just going off of what Henry
00:52:40
told her to say or what he said he saw and here's the other thing if they both like you said if they both ided them
00:52:46
Jack Carmen together was she just going along with what what whoever Henry pointed to right it's it's interesting
00:52:55
and then then the other question to me was was he the only one in the woods or is she just lying about being in the
00:53:03
woods altogether the thing here too is yeah I mean there's a lot going on here that
00:53:11
that took place in a very short period of time you know there's that phone call did Henry n make that phone call to
00:53:19
try to lure the Christy's friend right to the store near the woods I mean the wood back right up to to the store into
00:53:28
the to that area yeah a lot of people believe once you look at this case that you know what was Chrissy's friend's
00:53:36
name again Carol Reeves so Carol gets phone calls probably earlier that week and then gets one that day again like we
00:53:44
said kind of like the Amy mahalic case so I think you know when he said oh I'm a DJ and we're having this cheerleading
00:53:51
contest just meet me outside and and I think he thought I'm going to get lucky and she's just going to come by herself
00:53:57
and then I'm going to negotiate a situation where I can get her alone but what happened she brought a friend and
00:54:05
then I don't think whoever called her was expecting there to be two and it just so happened that um Christy decided
00:54:14
to stay back instead of hey I'll just go in with you she stayed back and that was
00:54:20
the Killer's opportunity right there m and so really this uh the victim was supposed to not be Christie it it's that
00:54:28
whole wrong place wrong time thing does the caller pretending to be a disc jockey pick the wo Co store or pick that
00:54:37
parking lot because he knew that a girl that lived in that area would cut through the woods and he could have got
00:54:43
he could have been in the woods with her alone watching her following her grab her and and and as you said now there's
00:54:51
a friend there now there's two yeah that's the other speculation is that the killer would have just called meet me
00:54:57
here knowing where um she lived she'd have to cut through the woods and he would have got her just in the woods to
00:55:06
begin with but since there was two girls there it was not an opportune time he could have just stayed back in the woods
00:55:12
and didn't react until he saw her go into the wool Co and then but then he had to act on Christy instead of her
00:55:20
friend now after Jack Carmen is acquitted in December 19 of 1976 um it's determined that Jack Carman
00:55:31
didn't even know Christy Mullin that he had actually pled guilty to killing a girl that he had never seen before and
00:55:39
he spent 846 days in in jail or prison uh because of that yeah and if you see some of the the pictures just of Jack
00:55:48
Carmen when they're arresting him he just looks happy all the time he looks just like he's happy to be there happy
00:55:55
to be talking in on his way into court he's smiling on his way out of court he's he doesn't understand what is
00:56:02
happening and and and it breaks my heart I mean the the guy he seems like like what his foster parents said like he's
00:56:09
just a nice guy that doesn't he does wouldn't know to fight somebody because he doesn't understand the situation yeah
00:56:14
he's basically living in a shelter yeah they they said that his foster parents at his defense you know they said that a
00:56:21
four-year-old could have could beat a four or five-year-old kid could beat up Jack Carmen because he wouldn't
00:56:27
understand the situation and ask him what you said you raped that girl ask him the definition of rape does does he
00:56:35
even know what that means and and this is terrible that that somebody took advantage of this person and and I mean
00:56:44
had these people not come to his defense the the the the citizens came to his defense these reporters came to his his
00:56:53
defense life in prison Yeah but I I think that's a that's a problem with the justice system is when you're pushing
00:57:00
the issue of closing a case there is pressure on these counts to close this case and that's I mean it's a one it's a
00:57:08
heinous murder uh two it's a it's a it's a sophomore in high school it's a 14-year-old girl not not a woman not you
00:57:17
know just uh somebody just stting their life and somebody uh beat her to death in the woods I mean there there's
00:57:24
pressure from the whole community but God you got to get this [ __ ] right yeah you can't just be taking a guy that's
00:57:31
mentally handicapped and just feeding him the answers and then going oh I mean how look at the end of the day you're
00:57:38
the only person that has to live with you and you're going to tell me you're going to be able to look in the [ __ ]
00:57:42
mirror when you set down a guy that you knew was incapable of understanding what
00:57:47
you're talking about and you just get him to confess to this idea well there were some things working against the
00:57:54
police um you know obviously the the ethics well basic human decency is one thing um no what I'm getting at though
00:58:05
is they were put in a bit of a pickle I mean you have a a eyewitness who's just lying okay he says I saw this Maniac
00:58:14
killer he describes the killer they make a composite drawing of this person and not only that typically you would you
00:58:22
would put this guy through the ringer you would say you saw the The Killing go down you would put him through the
00:58:28
ringer because he's very likely to be your number one suspect right but because he says that my wife and
00:58:34
daughter are with me now all of a sudden you have to you have to believe him you
00:58:38
don't have to but that's what they but he has an alibi yeah yeah he has an alibi and then then second of all they
00:58:44
release the composite drawing now here's one thing I will say the composite drawing Jack Carman looks exact he's a
00:58:51
dead ringer for the composite drawing I think the person that made the uh redneck Seinfeld joke was Mr do it or
00:58:59
something on on Twitter I I stole that joke from him so yeah and and no I don't mean any any verbal harm to Mr Jack
00:59:08
Carmen I already said that you know that that I feel terrible that this happened
00:59:12
to him but he you know there's there there okay this is 1975 when you hear that a girl is Beat to Death in the
00:59:19
woods and image comes in your mind when it's described that it was a white man with long black hair and it was it was
00:59:24
like just below the ears it wasn't long black hair and the composite drawing is just below
00:59:31
the ears and it's kind of handicap so one he probably doesn't have a lot of money to get a haircut he's got a wild
00:59:37
he's got a wild Look to Him yeah well but the other thing too is a lot of them don't understand how to shave so when I
00:59:43
was working in the bank and they come in every week and and you got to help them
00:59:47
out you'd realize like they don't shave as often I mean I the captain never shav
00:59:53
but you don't shave I sto shaving when I was 20 years old I was like wait a second I don't have to do this [ __ ]
00:59:58
anymore but no uh and so what's what you're basically saying though is if you see him in some pictures he just seems
01:00:04
like this happy cheerful guy that doesn't understand what's going on and in other pictures he does look like like
01:00:12
this Psycho Killer you know um yeah and and that that probably confused the police because when you when you start
01:00:20
if you're investigating this and you start to maybe not believe Henry n's account of what he saw yeah but here's
01:00:27
what we do here then then the very next day within 24 hours they pick somebody up that looks exactly like him and
01:00:33
you're going what's the chances of that no no no no that's one in a million but the but the problem is you got to start
01:00:39
CH you got to change the way that we investigate murders because here's what we do if if we're investigating let's
01:00:46
say a drug cartel right you put somebody's name on the board and put jack carman's name on the board and then
01:00:53
you just keep going you need to go find the next guy that he's connected to right mhm and
01:00:59
same way with uh the Henry null you go and you say okay now let's go dig more into him but the way murders work is
01:01:10
that you put these people on the board and so what the police did was they put Henry n on the board and they said well
01:01:15
Henry n was the one that saw the eyewitness right mhm and his wife and his kid were in the woods with him so
01:01:22
boom Alibi cross his name off the list sorry just punched your mic um and they cross his name off the list and then
01:01:32
where do we get the eyewitness testimony in the deposit sketch we get it from Henry null and then that uh that sketch
01:01:41
matches Jack Carmen so now we just keep following that path and so they they follow that path and guess what it leads
01:01:48
to a guy that agrees with everything you say so I understand that point you go okay well obviously this looks like the
01:01:55
guy Henry saw and Henry was with his wife so therefore he couldn't have done it so
01:02:01
nisis talked to this guy well maybe they didn't even push too hard it doesn't seem to me like they would have had to
01:02:08
but maybe it was going to take a while to actually I mean they could have said were you did you do this yes did you do
01:02:13
this yeah and maybe his story was just all over the place cuz he was disagreeing to everything and so they
01:02:19
had to clean that up a little bit and I think maybe you know maybe they they're not horrible people maybe they actually
01:02:27
thought they were on to something until the people from the shelter come out and
01:02:33
say wait a second he was here at least till 1:45 yeah and where I think they really
01:02:41
dropped the ball was just before that because after he's posit after Jack Carmen is they positively ided by n and
01:02:50
his wife and they they take his confession they're immediate medely telling the newspaper the next day it
01:02:58
was just a fluke that Jack Carman was there and what is what are their first statements to the newspaper his he he's
01:03:05
a very very poor mental condition and the next statement is he doesn't drive and Jack Carman doesn't know why he was
01:03:14
at graand shopping center right and he doesn't know where he went after the murder he he other than we know he
01:03:21
stayed in Columbus so he's saying I guess if if I was at grelin shopping center then I must have got on a bus and
01:03:29
went back downtown well so they were very quickly dismissing the phone call that Carol Reeves received they're
01:03:37
immediately saying well this was just a prank that had nothing to do with with the murder again putting things on the
01:03:43
list and just crossing them off they're just checking it right off saying nope that has nothing to do with it but then
01:03:48
furthermore they don't even bother to remember they said we are looking for a Koda bus driver that would have seen
01:03:55
this taking a bus to or from the area before after the murder yeah that bus driver
01:04:01
never came forward right and if he's not driving if he's getting around town if he is at all um these bus drivers are
01:04:10
going to start recognizing that you know their patrons so I don't know it's I like like you said I think it's I think
01:04:19
it's pressure I think it's unfair pressure I mean look I like cops I think there's a lot of great cops out there
01:04:25
there's a lot of amazing detectives uh I think they're put into these high pressure situations to close these cases
01:04:34
and uh I think sometimes cuz look you're getting pressure from the whole community community but you're also
01:04:41
getting pressure from the family MH you know and and I and I do believe that the
01:04:45
the family um you know cuz hindsight's 2020 so then after the fact you go well yeah we never believe that Jack was
01:04:53
involved to begin with I I think once they saw Jack and they saw the sketch I Pro I bet money that they're like yep
01:05:01
that's the guy but you know you take a couple more steps and it's like wait this this doesn't add up something's not
01:05:07
right so he's acquitted and then Henry uh n Jr gets out of prison and then what happens when when does he get out of
01:05:17
prison I'm not really for sure CU I don't think he spent that long of time in in jail I knew that he was in prison
01:05:24
but I had a hard time track that down as well and why did I wanted to know when he got out of prison because in January
01:05:30
of 1982 this is less than 7 years after the killing of Christy Mullins pamn his wife that was with him that day files
01:05:40
for divorce now about a month later in February she his wife Pam n is found dead in her apartment the result of a
01:05:51
barbituate overdose and there is a suicide note found by her her side okay which I mean strange because I don't
01:06:00
well strange because we discovered you know a possible suicide case and now null is the number one suspect in this
01:06:08
killing and well it's not a killing I mean it's technically no in Christy mullen's death
01:06:16
all right right and who who who was the one person that would have known for sure if she was with Henry null or not
01:06:24
pam pam yeah and I'm telling you there is this picture uh you might be able to find it at Columbus monthly.com I'm sure
01:06:31
you can find it somewhere on the internet but there is a picture of Henry null at the crime scene where he's
01:06:37
talking to police and he's telling them what he witnessed and what he saw and he's crouched down and he's kind of like
01:06:43
pointing at the ground and looking at the ground and his wife Pamela is 5 six feet from him and she's crouched down as
01:06:51
well and she is and you know they say a picture that says a thousand words the look on her face when she's looking
01:06:58
at her husband right the look on her face is almost like like she doesn't believe a word he says or why are you
01:07:06
making me lie for you that just it's just a disgusted look on her face yeah cuz I wonder if she saw any of Christie
01:07:14
cuz I think that would be enough to you know definitely definitely emotional reaction that happens there and if you
01:07:22
know like if you're not for certain if he did it or not you know you you could be looking at him just going what are
01:07:30
you a [ __ ] animal well what I'm thinking is that he probably came home without a shirt on
01:07:41
right and he asked his wife to go for a walk in the woods I mean I can't does he come home
01:07:49
without a shirt on no I I I think I think he bring I think he tells her after the fact I think there whatever
01:07:57
goes down between him and chrisy goes down and then for whatever reason maybe he thinks somebody saw him and so he
01:08:05
goes run to wco to which that doesn't make any sense either anyways no but that's the thing about this case there's
01:08:13
so much [ __ ] that doesn't make sense right and and how does do you blame pamila do you blame
01:08:20
the wife no because if she wasn't there if she doesn't know and then you he's the one that finds this body no but what
01:08:29
I mean is she knows whether or not she was with him in the woods right when he said he heard screams and went running
01:08:35
off and then but it's her husband so I I could see her just going look it's a little white lie no I wasn't with him I
01:08:41
was just a little bit far farther away and then you know but that's the thing why would he go to w Co why wouldn't he
01:08:49
just run home cuz if he ran home he could then just tell his wife I was walking in the woods and I found this
01:08:54
girl m the same story applies and I saw this guy and then you call the police from there but maybe he knows that if he
01:09:02
goes home that he has to call police I don't know or again though my first reaction would be he states that his
01:09:09
wife and daughter were in the woods with him my first reaction would have been to
01:09:12
run to my wife and daughter to locate them and then go for help that's what I would have done I don't know I think
01:09:19
there's a part of me that thinks that I would have ran after the guy if there was a guy you know but but who knows so
01:09:27
so she so Pam ends up committing suicide possibly in quotations that's what it's
01:09:34
you know that's what everybody says but I'm sure there's plenty of rumor to the contrary uh well this is also 75
01:09:42
so the other thing too is I don't know if she's working at the time and and maybe he's maybe it's just a one income
01:09:50
family right and so there there would be another motivation for her to to go with
01:09:55
his story well he's the bread winner he's bringing home everything you know he's taking care of us mhm so you know
01:10:03
if he goes away then what the hell you know well and Christy mullen's family would continue to fight for justice for
01:10:11
their daughter for their sister for their you know and uh their father Norman Mullen was of the belief that
01:10:18
Henry no was the person they should be looking at all along right and he he begged and bothered and poked at the
01:10:27
police department to continue to investigate this to look at no and they the other thing here is they just kind
01:10:34
of swept it under the rug for a while they they I think they what they were doing was they were ignoring their
01:10:41
mistake that they that they were refusing to put a spotlight back on something that they had done wrong well
01:10:48
the problem too though is that you have a eyewitness and he's claiming one I touch the murder weapon so really I mean
01:10:56
you get fingerprints oh well he covered his story there and then he put his shirt on top my argument with that is if
01:11:05
you have the shirt it's a big difference of you laying your shirt on a bloody body or splatter coming at you and I
01:11:15
know that uh forensics was different back in the day but I'm sure they could have saw splatter and went and one thing
01:11:22
that I find really interesting is the trial of ja Carman the jury believed that the witness was the murderer I
01:11:31
thought that was very interesting MH yeah and that was kind of the uh the the general consensus among the citizens of
01:11:38
the area at the time too so then Pam passes away alleged suicide and then where does this story go from here well
01:11:48
unfortunately in April of 2006 Norman Mullins he's the father of Christy Mullins who was still fighting for
01:11:55
justice for his daughter he passes away at the age of 72 in September of 2013 Henry n Jr he dies at the age of 63 from
01:12:07
cancer yeah and you can find his obituary online and there's not much written about him he did get remarried
01:12:15
uh he was married for about 16 years to his uh in quotation loving wife um and it just kind of listed his kid kids
01:12:26
grandkids and uh step grandchildren yeah around that same time John oler he begins researching the
01:12:35
mullen's murder case what he he wants to write a book about it and he thinks that
01:12:42
this is going to be a lengthy book he was going to look into the investigation and try to get another investigation
01:12:48
going here what he does is he ends up contacting the two gentlemen that wrote for the lantern back in
01:12:56
1975 and he ends up getting all of their old notes all of their uh interviews and
01:13:01
every bit of evidence that they collected along the way he gets that from those guys and he's not digging
01:13:08
into it too terribly far until he realizes this is no longer a book project this is more about finding the
01:13:18
real murderer and what was going to be a length a full length book that you would
01:13:22
see on the shelves everywhere ends up being becoming an ebook something very important takes
01:13:29
place in 2014 in May the Columbus Police agree to review The 40-Year-Old murder case of Christy Mullen now this takes
01:13:39
place now keep in mind the Mullen family MH had begged the police to look into this for almost 40 years and they got
01:13:49
little to no help in a new investigation of this case and and this is another pet
01:13:54
peeve so just let me jump on the Soap Box real quick we're very quick to be like hey let's let's close this case
01:14:01
let's get Justice right away as much as we can so much that we'll take a mentally handicapped guy put him in a
01:14:08
room and interrogate him and get a false confession MH but then after they lose the
01:14:14
case it's like they sit on their [ __ ] hands and don't open up any of these cold cases it's just it just sits there
01:14:22
so it it seems so to just sit at the beginning it's rush rush rush and then after that it's like it's kind of like
01:14:31
hush hush hush you know what I'm saying yeah well I think a lot of that was that
01:14:35
they had little to no evidence for any other suspect I mean they had no evidence on Jack Carmen who they took to
01:14:42
court and furthermore just a couple years after uh the murder the area was bulldozed over because they were
01:14:51
building up that area at the time well yeah they built um 3:15 North yeah so any any additional stuff that they were
01:14:58
hoping to find or or to to conduct any kind of uh surveys or anything like that in the area you know they had lost the
01:15:07
opportunity for that now it wasn't oler it wasn't the author that was able to get the police to agree to review The
01:15:15
40-Year-Old murder he actually said that he got involved and try to get them involved and he got the same runaround
01:15:23
that the mullen's family had got it was only after the Clintonville area commission had requested the police look
01:15:31
into this again now and sometimes what happens is you get new detectives and guys that were younger coming up they
01:15:39
hear about this Injustice and they they sink their teeth into it yeah because the Clintonville area commission has no
01:15:47
authority to make the police reopen the case or to look into it further it's just at their request now the the
01:15:54
current police Department granted that request and their Cold Case Squad reviewed the case and it took them about
01:16:01
a year maybe two years uh and they come out in 2015 November 6th and the Columbus Police Department announced
01:16:10
that Henry no killed Christy Mullins more than 40 years earlier and they rule the case solved and closed and they they
01:16:18
and one of the reasons offer go ahead one of the reasons they did that too was um one of Henry nolles uh nieces came
01:16:26
forward and said look this has been a family secret for years or at least family suspected him of doing this and
01:16:34
he supposedly he confessed to her to he confessed according to the family he confessed to her and at least one other
01:16:43
family member um stating that he had taken the girl into the woods or got her to go into the woods with him and he
01:16:51
made a move he made a move he he was going to rap her it never got that far things got out of control and he killed
01:16:58
her um well and and I I don't even know if it just happened that way I mean it it could be as simple as I just want to
01:17:06
I'm not simple but it could his motive could have been I you know interested in younger girls and you know what he said
01:17:16
to the niece was that he made a move and then she you know didn't react the way he wanted her to and then that's when
01:17:25
escalated uh that doesn't make him any less of a [ __ ] dirt bag he's a dirt bag period you know um yeah and we do
01:17:32
got to be clear I mean obviously he he had died before they make this announcement and what I was sorry what I
01:17:38
was trying to say captain beforehand was that the the police did offer a full apology to the mullen's family uh for
01:17:45
their slip up and they called their their uh work 40 years ago shotty at best um but right you know you you can't
01:17:54
try a guy who's dead um and I guess it's easy to say that he did it and they closed the case and there is to be
01:18:00
honest with you there is not a ton of evidence that that he did do it however what police can say is that they had
01:18:08
enough that if he were still alive he would be indicted and he would he would be tried for that that murder yeah and
01:18:18
so here's what I find frustrating so that's 2015 and the case is closed right mhm
01:18:24
cases closed my friend no not so fast 2016 the police discover that there's a new technology out there that technology
01:18:36
is called Global Filer and basically what this is it's a different way to test DNA
01:18:44
and what this Global filer works best on is old DNA or possibly um not really contaminated but
01:18:54
deteriorated DNA exactly and so they have this new uh test and this is now in 2016 they will not um they will not
01:19:08
discuss what item they're testing so we don't know if they're testing the shirt or the 2x4 if there's something else at
01:19:16
the scene the cops will not talk about what it's uh what item will be being tested now they did say because it's the
01:19:27
case is technically closed that this could take anywhere from 6 months to possibly even 2 years which is a little
01:19:35
ridiculous like so they're they're saying that if the case were open it would be a a more
01:19:42
expedited and I'm not for sure on that it might just be that this uh Global filer DNA testing maybe it takes longer
01:19:49
it's new technology right and there's there's a you know kind of a chain of command you know obviously if things are
01:19:55
set to go to trial they need to have those DNA tested I mean who knows how backed up they are I mean this world is
01:20:01
going to hell in a hand basket real quick but as said I don't know exactly what that evidence is but I do believe
01:20:09
if they're saying we have enough evidence that if if he were still alive today he would be on trial for that
01:20:15
murder and these are the same people that uh put jack Carmen on trial well not the same people the same Department
01:20:22
the same Department the same Department 40 years later so hopefully I mean if we
01:20:26
get an update on what the this DNA test come out we'll we'll update everybody once we know information on it and one
01:20:33
thing that's obvious here though is you know 40 years ago police believed that three people were at the crime scene
01:20:41
Henry Henry null Jack Carmen and Christy Mullen yeah and we only think that Jack
01:20:48
Carman they only thought Jack Carman was there because of Henry null and Henry null pointed at him in the lineup and
01:20:54
said that's definitely the guy that was there well they prove he was definitely not there so that leaves two people at
01:21:02
that crime scene well it's definitely interesting it definitely has some twists and turns to it it's a case I've
01:21:09
never heard of uh I do like covering the cases that are lesser known you have to
01:21:13
really kind of dig deep for the information uh so do we have a recommended reading for the week well
01:21:20
yes we do but real quick before we get to that this was a case that kind of blew my top because
01:21:25
uh you know seldom I came across this case about four or five years ago and looked into it and then you know it goes
01:21:32
away and you look into it a little bit later you read up on it and but the the strange thing here is seldom do you
01:21:39
review a cold case or stumble across a cold case and then there's an actual outcome usually these things just sit
01:21:46
there and continue to be cold forever so our hats should be off to the author to
01:21:52
the gentleman that worked at the Lantern and way Back 40 years ago to the people
01:21:56
of Sharon Township that that got together and said no Jack Carman didn't do this and you got to get him out and
01:22:03
we got to figure out who did this so there was a lot of people that had a hand in this to find Justice whether it
01:22:09
be after the perpetrator was dead you know but at least Justice was found at the end of the day so we got to give our
01:22:17
well don't don't speak too soon because we will wait for the captain to update us on the the DNA
01:22:24
yeah I mean you put that on my shoulders but you asked about recommended reading
01:22:28
yes of course we have one and this week we are featuring life after death This Is by Damen Eckles you may know him as
01:22:36
the uh one of the members of the West Memphis 3 he was the uh socalled devil worshipper uh this is his book that he
01:22:45
wrote and released after he was released from prison and uh it talks about it m it talks a little bit about the case but
01:22:53
it mainly discusses his time in prison and things he witnessed and experienced there it does also go quite a bit into
01:23:00
his childhood which was which was very insightful I recommend this one highly life after death by Damen Eckles you can
01:23:07
get that through our website true Crim garage.com click on the Amazon banner and pick that up today so until next
01:23:15
time be good be kind and don't litter [Music] True Crime podcasts there is no shortage
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01:23:55
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