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GameChanger [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:46
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always ladies and gentlemen the star of the new movie shark nat5 he
00:01:54
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first up we have Brook all the way in New South Wales Australia good day in South Australia we have Andrew nice J
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love to you and here in beautiful Parts Unknown we just opened up the first ever
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that's enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer pitch a tent and let's talk some true
00:03:58
crime [Music] police are working extended shifts around the clock trying to find Cheryl
00:04:23
levit her daughter Suzanne streer and Suzanne's best friend Stacy McCall the three disappeared from this house early
00:04:31
Sunday morning the women had attended kapoo graduation ceremonies at Hammond Student Center Saturday night Suzanne
00:04:37
and Stacy had gone to a couple of parties then returned here to Suzanne's home investigators suspect Foul Play the
00:04:44
woman's cars were in the driveway their personal belongings including their clothes and purses were in the house
00:04:50
there was no sign of a struggle we are still asking for individuals that may have had contact with either the mall
00:04:57
girl misser or Miss Le to make contact with our department so we can narrow down the time frames that
00:05:04
we're working with as to physically when was the last time they were seen and known to be
00:05:11
safe the FBI is treating The Disappearance as a possible kidnapping one FBI agent has been assigned to work
00:05:17
with local police more than 30 Springfield officers have been assigned to the case the Springfield Police
00:05:23
Department has committed all manpow available to the investigation of The Disappearance of these three l
00:05:30
the investigations division itself is divided into two teams each team working 12-hour shifts in addition to that the
00:05:37
Department's crisis action team has been assigned to this case along with additional supplemental support out of
00:05:44
the uniform division Glen says police will continue to work around the clock until All Leads have been exhausted
00:05:51
Dennis Graves KY3 Action [Music] News welcome to day two in the garage we are discussing the famous case of the
00:06:11
Springfield 3 The Disappearance of Stacy Mcall 18 years old Susie streer 19 and Cheryl levette 41 this is a much
00:06:19
requested case we're just a little less than 2 months away from the 25-year anniversary of this strange
00:06:25
disappearance where we left off yesterday we started getting into some horrible people that could be considered
00:06:31
suspects in this case when discussing leads in this case we talked about bart streer as a possible lead the brother
00:06:38
that went nowhere we also discussed the boyfriend Dustin and his friends right uh who who had some involvement there
00:06:45
but but not a whole lot going on they are still considered suspects to this day and we talked about a really bad
00:06:51
dude named Steven Eugene Garrison and he kind of Falls in line with whom we're going to talk about today we have a few
00:06:58
people and these are all all considered very bad people that were in the area at
00:07:03
the time of The Disappearance of the Springfield 3 right so first up today let's talk about a guy named Gerald
00:07:10
carahan a St Louis County jury convicted Gerald of first-degree murder and forceable rape for the death of Jackie
00:07:17
Johns who was 25 this was 25 years after the fact I believe he was convicted in 2010 so it took quite a bit of time but
00:07:27
Gerald Carnahan is now safe from all of us he's he's stuck in prison he he was 52 years old when he was convicted so
00:07:34
he'll probably spend the rest of his life in a Cell thank God right so Jerry dingleberry is in prison yes so carahan
00:07:41
by the time he was arrested and convicted he was a family man he and his wife had two daughters uh his family has
00:07:49
told reporters that his wife had no idea when she married him that he was he was
00:07:54
suspected of these horrible crimes way back in 1985 after the verdict was read Bay's
00:08:00
put handcuffs on carahan his defense attorney asked that he be allowed to talk to his family one last time you
00:08:07
know this is nice for carahan but pretty crappy for the rest of us right I mean when he killed Jackie Johns he certainly
00:08:13
didn't give her one last opportunity to talk to her family right so why should he get this privilege well the judge
00:08:20
Captain apparently he thinks a lot like you and I because the judge basically ignored the defense attorney's request
00:08:28
not even answering the defense attorney and The Bays led him out of the courtroom well and we're just looking up
00:08:34
his picture I mean he he he looks harmless he looks like a doughboy well yeah oh sorry well it's believed that
00:08:40
carahan raped and beat Janie John's who was only 20 years old in June of 1985 and dumped her body in Lake in Lake
00:08:49
Springfield they started looking at him as a suspect within a week of the murder
00:08:54
but didn't have sufficient evidence to charge him he was charged in 20 2007 after criminalist said DNA evidence in
00:09:03
Seaman found on John's body matched carnahan's DNA and yes it was it was 2010 when he was convicted yeah but at
00:09:12
least Justice was served DNA analysis wasn't available obviously in 19 in the early 1990s the Springfield Police
00:09:20
Department got a grant in 2003 that let it afford to look at Cold cases such as this one the the
00:09:29
Springfield Police Department tested the DNA from samples taken from Jackie John's body and car but it wasn't able
00:09:37
to make an a match to any known person right in 2006 the Missouri State Police Highway Patrol got a similar grant for
00:09:46
Cold Case analysis and again tested the evidence and got a DNA match to carahan after getting a search warrant to take a
00:09:55
swab of his saliva at trial a highway patrol criminalist testified he didn't know Springfield police sent the same
00:10:03
seen evidence to the lab 3 years earlier which turned out to be almost a stroke of luck because it's possible the
00:10:09
highway patrol criminalist would may not have even retested the evidence had he known about the previous test obviously
00:10:16
he was such a suspect that years later they said hey we got to get a warrant to get his saliva yes yes he he was the
00:10:24
number one suspect they just had no evidence to convict him now and I bet I bet Jerry dingleberry was a sweaty
00:10:31
Doughboy when that was going down well Janice John's walker uh 59 uh this is Jackie John's oldest sister talked about
00:10:39
the impact of the murder on her family and her mother died in 1988 with cancer but Walker says that that's not what
00:10:47
killed her uh saying that her mom grieved herself to death she would sit and cry and cry and it it took a toll on
00:10:54
her right uh stating holidays were never the same Jackie was gone in that that really destroyed the family it weighed
00:11:01
very heavy on all of them throughout the years so did the dough boy get the electric chair well no they decided not
00:11:08
to seek the death death penalty because Jackie John's father was in extremely poor health at the time when they were
00:11:15
bringing these charges to trial and the prosecuting attorney feared that he wouldn't live long enough to see the
00:11:23
outcome of this trial so with the family's blessing they decided to just you know wave the death penalty and move
00:11:30
forward with the case so he could get some closure he got some closure before he he would pass on well that's good
00:11:36
that that's good news from law enforcement right well and I tell you what the thing here that you kind of
00:11:41
have to applaud is they they found their number one suspect they stuck with him for 25 years and build a case around
00:11:47
this guy and even though it's Justice delayed it's not Justice denied um and the family did get some closure uh here
00:11:55
here's carnahan's criminal record all of these convictions are crimes in 1993 or
00:12:01
1994 and he served time for all of these charges back in the 9s uh first we see second-degree burglary of a business as
00:12:10
well as arson at the same business uh he was also convicted of attempted kidnapping of a girl in Springfield
00:12:17
assault of a law enforcement officer H attempted kidnapping and tampering with evidence in 1993 carahan was charged in
00:12:27
Green County with attempting to abduct an 18-year-old girl her name was Heather starky so carnahan's victim type
00:12:36
certainly includes the teenage girls uh Stacy and Susie and we see kidnapping and rape charges these women obviously
00:12:45
were kidnapped so so this disappearance of the Springfield 3 fits carnahan's Mo well but our problem here is that there
00:12:53
were so many people that contaminated the crime scene or where they went missing from that we can't there's
00:12:59
nothing that we can test to compare it with this you know Doughboy and and we know that he was living in the
00:13:05
Springfield area at the time he was he was living there at the time of The Disappearance but really other than that
00:13:11
you know his Mo and and his proximity to the crime you know being a rapist and a
00:13:16
killer we really have nothing else on on Gerald Carnahan but we know he was out he was a free man at the time and he was
00:13:23
certainly capable of of these terrible things mhm next let's talk about Larry D Wayne hall now Larry Dwayne Hall he he
00:13:33
is a twin he has a brother Gary Hall um and nothing wrong with twins and the two
00:13:38
of them lived in uh the Missouri area the thing here is though it it's not so important when you talk about Larry Hall
00:13:46
where he lived because uh he was in he was one of those traveling guys he he did those Civil War
00:13:55
reenactments MH and uh if you look at pictures of him you see he's got the the mutton chops there yeah his his mutton
00:14:02
chops are a reenactment of just a horrible crime on his face mhm the main reason that Larry was a suspect he
00:14:09
actually didn't live anywhere near Springfield but he had a similar vehicle that match the description of the
00:14:16
eyewitnesses yes remember we talked about the the Dodge Van that the the older woman had reported being a green
00:14:24
color uh the the paper boy saying it was a brown and then everybody coming forward and next thing you know it's
00:14:29
purple black white tan every other color in the in the rainbow or or I don't know
00:14:34
if if those colors are in the rainbow the thing here is though but he was he was a traveling guy he traveled around
00:14:41
doing these different Civil War reenactments uh a lot of the times he was traveling with his twin brother now
00:14:48
the thing here is exactly what the captain said his vehicle matched that van but but this Larry Hall
00:14:56
guy is an interesting dude because he is actually only convicted of one murder and this would be uh his victim was
00:15:05
Jessica roach she was a 15-year-old girl she was last seen with her sister Mindy
00:15:11
as the two were going to the store in Georgetown Illinois uh her sister said that she was walking down the road with
00:15:19
her bike when the sister returned from the store she called out for for Jessica and she was not there she got no answer
00:15:27
and a bus driver that was passing by he did you know he actually saw the bike lying in the middle of the road which he
00:15:35
thought was extremely odd because you know first he probably thought somebody could have been hit um but the thing
00:15:42
here is he ends up police police end up talking to Larry Hall about this and it's several years after the fact but
00:15:52
they suspected Hall and many other possible abductions disappearances and murders but didn't have a whole lot of
00:16:00
evidence other than being able to place him somewhere near the crime scenes and so when they talked to Hall about this
00:16:08
situation they showed him a picture of of Jessica roach and as soon as they showed he's one of these Captain I I
00:16:17
hate to kind of go off on the side thing here but he's a oh he's really trying to
00:16:22
just stick to the story man I don't I don't really like going off on tangents he's a really Rare Breed for me like
00:16:30
when I've seen interviews and stuff with him he he comes off like extremely emotional um almost like even even
00:16:39
almost maybe a little remorseful and we don't typically see this with people that that we we throw into this group of
00:16:46
having they suspect that Hall may have killed as many as 30 or 40 people and and the thing here is when they show the
00:16:53
picture of Jessica roach to Hall he he like immediately turns away and he just starts ball like not just crying he's
00:17:01
balling like a baby and the thing is he immediately admits to killing her wow and then on top of that he in this
00:17:09
emotional state you know they kind of broke through the shell when they showed him the picture they get him talking and
00:17:14
in this emotional state he starts like confessing to other things he's like yeah I killed her and I killed you know
00:17:20
all these other girls too and but they but then they you know they hit a wall with him in this interview and they
00:17:27
can't get any more information about these other girls he doesn't name them he doesn't give them places uh really
00:17:33
nothing to go off of it was kind of seemed to me like he really needed to kind of get this off of his chest
00:17:39
somehow well I'm one of the few people that don't actually believe that most serial killers remember everything of
00:17:44
their victims where a lot of people say U most serial killers can just they can bring up every detail of every killing
00:17:51
yeah or the majority of them I I I don't believe that's the case for even as much
00:17:56
as 50% of them um I I go back and forth on that but with a person as far as Larry Hall goes
00:18:05
I could see that maybe he doesn't recall the names because some of these people he may not have known their names right
00:18:10
uh a lot of these people he didn't really stalk he kind of just would see somebody walking down the street and
00:18:16
opportun and pull them off of the road yeah and pull them into his van which this always frustrates the [ __ ] out of
00:18:21
me because in so many cases like you take like even Mara Murray for example like the opportunist kill we see it time
00:18:29
and time again it is very rare it is very rare but yes we do see this it's not that rare I mean we're talking about
00:18:36
Larry right now Ted Bundy was one right no no but I mean as far as a percentage goes as far as serial killers go a lot
00:18:43
of them are opportunist Killers but as as a when you compare it to how many regular people are walking around on the
00:18:50
planet there's not that many of them and and what they mean by it being rare is that your chances of you being in a
00:18:57
vulnerable state when when you happen to cross paths with that person it's mathematically not likely to to to
00:19:04
happen to most of us right but we know that Larry confessed to one crime but the other crimes that he confessed to
00:19:10
there was no names right or dates or places so is he just a oneandone type killer or I mean is this all just kind
00:19:18
of horse Malarkey well here's the thing when when reviewing you know some some people have gotten together and they've
00:19:24
put together a potential victim list for Larry hall now I think the numbers could
00:19:30
be exaggerated a little bit because when you look into these when you look at all
00:19:34
40 of them there were several of these cases let's say five or six of them maybe as many as nine or 10 that you
00:19:43
have other suspects in in these cases right the problem with a lot of these cases that are listed in this 40 is some
00:19:52
some of these people have never been found uh which makes things extremely difficult uh where I believe that he
00:19:59
probably did commit more than one murder I I wouldn't be shocked if he's somewhere in like the teens to the 20s
00:20:06
because he seems like somebody that wants emotionally he wants to confess but only for selfish reasons only to to
00:20:14
to relieve himself of the burden that he's carrying around not because he wants the not because he wants the
00:20:20
recognition of being this prolific serial killer or not because he wants to actually help anybody else out but he
00:20:27
would give he would give vague details of stuff that he probably could recall you know there there was one situation
00:20:33
regarding a Disappearance in 1991 uh where he says you know when talking to investigators he he admitted
00:20:40
to picking up a woman in Claremont which is on the west side of Indianapolis and
00:20:46
he states that you know what I don't I don't know her name I never knew her name uh all I remember is that she
00:20:51
didn't want to go with me and she had to be forced now he doesn't say that he he
00:20:56
killed her or what he did with her but they but then they do know that a girl named Georgia shrie uh 37 she was last
00:21:04
seen in that area almost at that exact time so it's a bit of a coincidence right Captain yeah my big question
00:21:10
though here is that he you know Larry's claiming that he's traveling around with
00:21:13
his twin brother Gary first of all twin brother Gary Larry and Gary hey hello don't do that don't don't name your kids
00:21:25
Larry and Gary not when they're wins it's not acceptable well and I think I know what you're getting at here Captain
00:21:32
you you're implying that maybe the two of them were guilty together in some of these crimes right um they most
00:21:39
certainly did travel a lot together driving all over the United States if you look at the crimes that they think
00:21:45
that Larry might have committed uh you basically could chop the United States in half right down the middle and
00:21:51
everything on the east side he's about in every other state with a potential victim um I do know that Gary didn't
00:21:59
attend all of these events with Larry uh so it might be possible that this was something that he did on his own but you
00:22:07
did touch on something interesting there because that you know it's stated and and you and I both kind of hate this
00:22:14
this when they bring this up but uh Larry is is stated to have a pretty low IQ um and I think they I think they put
00:22:22
his number around 80 and I do want to my caveat to everybody out there there's different 's different IQ tests out
00:22:29
there so so different scores mean different things on those tests but what I've seen reported is 80 now do we know
00:22:36
that that is right who knows but I'm about 65 I wonder you know it's been put out there that it is it possible that
00:22:45
somebody had to teach this to Larry maybe when he was younger you know may maybe he was a part of an abduction uh
00:22:54
where somebody else was involved and perpetrated the abduction at a young age and this was something that he took a
00:23:01
liking to um I have heard one there's an author that wrote a book on him called I
00:23:06
believe it's called urges and the author refers to Larry Hall as like a savant where he's pretty you know kind of dumb
00:23:15
at everything else but but this might be something that he's worked on and perfected over the years almost as like
00:23:23
a autism or yeah yeah like yeah well a savant you're just kind of good at one or two things and you know he apparently
00:23:30
is good at if if he is guilty of 30 or 40 people he's very good at abducting and disposing of people without getting
00:23:39
caught if your mud and chops aren't legit then you're a piece of [ __ ] well and I also want to lay to arrest things
00:23:45
that you know so just so people are clear that he's not a oneandone killer that there is some validity here to that
00:23:51
he he could have been involved in other cases we have that of Tracy rler uh she was 19 years old this took place in 1993
00:24:00
she was a freshman at Wesleyan University in Maran Indiana now she was last seen around 8:00 p.m. one night
00:24:08
traveling to the supermarket and she had not been seen again now this was a murder that not only Hall confessed to
00:24:16
but later recanted the confession to further more to add more evidence to the possibility of that just about 8 or nine
00:24:24
days later in that same neighborhood he was he was pulled over because he was harassing two female students that were
00:24:32
walking home he was and they were scared because this other girl had already gone
00:24:37
missing they report the situation to a security guard the security guard tracks down this van and pulls him over and
00:24:44
sure enough it's it's Larry Hall driving the van right right right the P Green well here's here's another situation
00:24:52
here Captain okay this took place in May of 1994 okay now Larry Hall is pulled over
00:24:59
so two years after yeah pulled over by a police officer after he was trying to coax some girls to get into his van and
00:25:08
when he's pulled over they search the van and listen to the the unusual items that they find in in his van they find a
00:25:16
spray can of starter fluid fluid a cotton mask and cotton balls a cotton a plastic tarp some knives and some rope
00:25:27
uh and the officers also found newspaper articles regarding The Disappearance of
00:25:32
that Tracy reeter that we just previously discussed what's odd about that well it's odd because you could
00:25:38
probably spray the starting fluid into cotton balls or a cotton mask and hold it over somebody's face and all right
00:25:46
subdue them and pull them into your van um it these seems like the when you're driving around in a rape van what what's
00:25:55
odd about finding those items I see what you're saying saying it it very much fits Larry Hall's van all right so what
00:26:02
happens with this Larry Hall character yeah and I don't want to go through all of the potential victims because we
00:26:07
would be here all day and night but the thing here is that's interesting is after he is sentenced to life uh for for
00:26:16
the death of Jessica roach we have a situation where his brother remember old G old old G bear he comes forward and he
00:26:24
starts saying that his brother lair uh is probably one of the most prolific serial killers that this country's ever
00:26:31
seen that that he believes that that his brother has been pulling girls and women
00:26:35
into the van for for 20 some years yeah hey what way to bring this up after the fact jackass yeah and well and by the
00:26:44
way I think he's the most prolific serial killer of all time and he killed all these women and guess what I'm
00:26:50
writing a book about it yeah well I I might have stretched that a little bit it was more like 10 or 15 years but
00:26:56
anyway that that's the claims that Gary comes out with after the fact now we we have a weird situation here where Larry
00:27:03
then retaliates and he says you know what um I'm sick of covering up for Gary for all these years oh yeah see what did
00:27:10
I say you're exactly right and at some point he he says you know I'm going to have to tell you what actually happened
00:27:16
he also but the weird thing here is he actually throws another name into the into the serial killer pool at at the
00:27:23
same time he says you know what I kind of uh some of these murders were committed by a guy and I can't remember
00:27:30
the name and and it's fair that I don't because we don't even know who this guy is or have any evidence on his name was
00:27:36
Mar it was lar gar and Mar this was somebody that would not have been related to them it was Barry Larry Gary
00:27:42
and Barry but he claims that he was with this other person who committed some of
00:27:47
these these murders as well so um a very interesting story regarding Larry Hall and his well and you like you said with
00:27:55
his low IQ maybe he learned it from somebody maybe he learned it from his his his stupid brother he's interesting
00:28:02
because his van fits the description first of all second of all there would have been two of them possibly there
00:28:08
could have been two of them which would have you know I I I think it would be difficult to abduct three women all at
00:28:15
the same time and I think if you had if it were two versus three it would certainly be easier uh to pull off in my
00:28:22
mind so that makes him a very interesting suspect and he's somebody that these the the armchair detectives
00:28:29
should look him up because if you have a a girl that's anywhere from the age of 15 to about 32 of an unsolved crime in
00:28:38
your area and it was took place in the 80s or the early 90s uh and it's on the eastern half of the United States
00:28:47
there's a good chance that he might be considered a suspect in in in that in that case MH all right I'm I'm so over
00:28:54
Larry and Gary uh why don't you go paddle your canoe down the river and uh we'll get back to this case right after
00:29:01
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00:31:26
today all right and we are back cheers everybody probably the most interesting or maybe the let's say someone who looks
00:31:36
like a more likely suspect than some of the other creeps that we have been discussing m is a guy by the name of
00:31:42
Robert Craig Cox now because of the Relentless persistence By Janice remember that's Stacy McCall's mother
00:31:50
another major and promising break in the case occurred a tipster from the state of Florida called in after seeing the
00:31:57
case on the national news and giving the authorities the name Robert Craig Cox adding him to the list of suspects as it
00:32:05
turns out the caller was the brother of Sharon zelers a 19-year-old teenager allegedly murdered in 1978 by Robert Cox
00:32:14
yeah and Shannon was on her way home from working at Disneyland or Disney World Disney World and uh she was
00:32:21
abducted yes uh at the time Robert was in the vicinity celebrating his recent graduation from basic training to become
00:32:29
an army ranger Robert Cox was staying with his parents at a hotel nearby it was quite late that night and Robert
00:32:37
headed out on his own while his parents were wanting to get some rest sometime later Robert returned to the room
00:32:44
covered in blood his parents rushed him to a hospital the blood was coming from Robert's tongue which was partially
00:32:51
bitten off he told the staff that he bit off his own tongue yet the medical examiners concluded that it's
00:33:00
improbability due to the direction of how Robert's Tong tongue was taken off m 2 Days Later police located the body of
00:33:08
Sharon zelers who was reported missing after not returning back home after work her body was only about 100 ft from the
00:33:17
hotel Robert and his family were staying in Sharon's body was stuffed into a manhole at a sewage pumping station the
00:33:25
coroner ruled that she had been beaten on the head about 14 times with a blunt object because of the strange story of
00:33:33
Robert Craig Cox about his tongue and the connection of him staying so close to where the body was found the police
00:33:40
interviewed him he told police that he had accidentally bitten off his tongue when a big black man hit him during a
00:33:47
fight outside of a skating rink and this rink was really close to where she used
00:33:51
to get cigarettes at like a convenience store grocery store mhm yeah it was an all night grocer grocery store and she
00:33:57
would often stop there on her way home from work now the thing here is Cox said that after the fight at the skating rink
00:34:04
that he drove around in his car he got lost and returned to the skating rink where a stranger gave him a lift back to
00:34:12
the hotel yet no blood was ever found in Cox's car the Good Samaritan could never
00:34:19
be found and deputies working at the rink at the skating rink said No Such fight had occurred mhm the police spe
00:34:26
culated that Cox had abducted zear forced her to drive to Sandy Grove then lost his tongue as he tried to assault
00:34:35
her they said Cox good for her yeah well they said Cox being a well-built Army Ranger who had just completed basic
00:34:43
training probably flew into a rage and beat the girl to death no murder weapon was ever found police were unable to
00:34:51
charge him after this incident Robert traveled with the Army to California where where in 1985 he was charged and
00:34:59
convicted on two separate occasions of abduction and assaults of women well then that's the sad thing about this is
00:35:06
you know when you have these monsters it's like if they would get caught early they'd be off the streets and it would
00:35:12
save so many lives in the first of these two cases in California Cox stalked a woman and grabbed her when she got out
00:35:19
of her car he held a knife to her throat the woman struggled and then the process
00:35:25
in the process bad cut her hands bleeding all over his car she persuaded Cox to take her to the hospital when
00:35:33
police showed up he fled the police later found handcuffs and an arsenal of weapons in Robert Cox's home in the
00:35:41
second case Robert Cox abducted gig Wickham at gunpoint from the Monterey Airport parking lot from the trunk of
00:35:48
his car he grabbed a double bag filled with automatic weapons and survival gear then he instructed her to drive him to
00:35:56
the mountains she escaped after she got Cox to stop by her friend's house so she she talks him
00:36:02
into stopping off on the way at a friend's house and then things you know go badly for Cox good for the girls uh
00:36:09
police arrest Cox after he had held the friend hostage at gunpoint threatening to kill this friend uh and then kill
00:36:17
himself well just let the friend go and uh you just kill yourself yeah that that
00:36:21
would have helped us all out well it was after he's brought up on these charges that Florida you know the the
00:36:27
authorities there they're like okay well we have all this circumstantial evidence
00:36:31
but now we really we know what he's fully capable of so Florida was able to indict him for the murder of Sharon
00:36:38
Zeller along with the tongue thing uh and hair and blood samples found near the victim these were compatible with
00:36:47
Robert Cox uh Cox testified that he bit through his tongue during that fight So eventually Robert he was taken to trial
00:36:55
right in which he was found guilty and I actually think that they had a good a really good case here uh they also had a
00:37:03
bootprint of his a map showing convergent Paths of the defendant and the victim uh the night that she was
00:37:11
last seen alive they found blood in his motel room uh blood in her car uh but because of Unfortunate Events the ruling
00:37:20
was eventually overturned as Cox sat on death row awaiting execution for the beating death of Sharon zers the Florida
00:37:28
Supreme Court decided that that the puzzle had not yet been solved after all they claimed that the jurors were
00:37:35
mistaken and the Seven justices ruled that Cox's uh on Cox's automatic appeal that there was not enough evidence to
00:37:42
actually convict him of this right right so they reversed the conviction yeah how
00:37:46
much more do you need a picture of him doing it a video of him doing it yeah yeah I mean you have he's missing up
00:37:53
he's missing part of his tongue you have blood and hair evidence you have a a bootprint you have a map showing that he
00:38:00
was you know taking a route that that she would have been on um so you know after the after this was overturned uh
00:38:08
some of the jurors came forward that had originally convicted Cox and one of them
00:38:13
stated you know Robert Cox is a killer Robert Cox killed Sharon Zellers uh Robert Cox will kill again because you
00:38:20
have provided him the opportunity right and another one said that if he walks there will probably be more victims and
00:38:28
the blood will be on the hands of those seven justices right but so if the jury is coming out and saying all this stuff
00:38:34
and and so these justices are coming like who got to them who got to the justices right somebody had to get to
00:38:41
them right yeah I I don't know I don't know how this whole thing went down it really makes no sense to me like I said
00:38:48
well maybe he has uh like a father of power or something well like I said I thought they had a really good case
00:38:54
there uh he did end up serving some time you know because he was waiting there on
00:38:58
death row during the process of his appeals right um but what happens is after they overturn the case they then
00:39:05
have to send him back to California to serve time for those crimes uh that he committed before he went to Florida and
00:39:12
one of before he went back to Florida sorry right one of the things that was pretty interesting to read was how he
00:39:16
wasn't that popular with the inmates uh because he had that you know just the piece of the tongue missing MH yeah and
00:39:23
well see afterwards Robert Cox is released and moved in 1992 where his parents were living which was
00:39:32
Springfield Missouri this is just months prior to the disappearances of the three
00:39:37
women the Zeller family still mourning the loss of their daughter in the release of Robert they were keeping tabs
00:39:45
on any news relating to him right and that's why they reached out to they reached out to Stacy McCall's mother
00:39:53
years later after this hit the national news now while living in Springfield Robert had a few jobs uh during his time
00:40:00
in the area he was employed as an underground utility worker on the south central side of town uh this is an
00:40:08
occupation that many believe could help him con his way into an unsuspecting person's home right potentially
00:40:15
kidnapping them uh he was also a mechanic at a used car lot and the interesting thing here Captain is this
00:40:23
is where Stacy McCall's father was working uh the Mcall family believes that it is
00:40:29
it is quite possible that Robert Cox would have seen Stacy when she visited her father at his job Robert was
00:40:38
interviewed and he was questioned by police and he had an alibi for the night that the Springfield 3 went missing who
00:40:44
was his Alibi his girlfriend confirmed that he was with her that entire evening and night and that they had attended
00:40:52
Sunday morning church services the following morning sounds like a bunch of well here's here's the thing here 3
00:40:59
years later in 1995 Robert was arrested in Texas for holding an armed a weapon to a 12-year-old girl since then he's
00:41:07
been serving a life sentence for aggravated robbery in the state of Texas now later Robert's girlfriend back from
00:41:14
1992 now his ex spoke to the Springfield Police Department and she recanted her entire statement about his Alibi she's
00:41:23
stating that Robert had threatened her and told her what to say if they came forward and questioned her of course
00:41:30
right and then you know she also claimed that he wasn't you know that good and bad because of the half Tong thing oh
00:41:37
wow the thing here is though police have stated more than once that Robert Cox should be the prime suspect in the case
00:41:45
of the Springfield 3 yeah definitely now in an interview with Springfield police
00:41:50
Robert said I can't tell you that said I can tell you that I know that the three
00:41:55
women are dead and the person who committed the crime had experience and that they are buried
00:42:01
somewhere close to Springfield well here's what we do now we know that he's capable of it 100% we know that he was
00:42:08
100 uh we know that he was in the area y right and uh we know that he's lying about The Alibi so you're creating an
00:42:17
alibi anytime you create an alibi I don't like that yeah and the weird thing here is that after the girlfriend states
00:42:24
that you know you know she says he threat he threatened me and I had to say this well then very quickly his parents
00:42:32
rush to his defense and say no no no no he was with us that night right um so this guy's got an answer for everything
00:42:40
but I can't believe either alabai uh when we see the first one very quickly fall through and then the parents rush
00:42:46
to to his defense where were the parents if if they were are correct about their
00:42:51
dates I I do believe he stayed with them from time to time but I don't believe that they're correct about about their
00:42:56
dates because where were they when he was originally questioned about this now regarding well well here hold on a
00:43:02
second because here hear me out if you're a parent listen to this the captain's going to give you a little
00:43:07
parenting advice if your son don't you tell me how to ra my kid yeah no hear me out this is good advice here here it is
00:43:16
if your son or your daughter is a is a piece of [ __ ] douche canoe right right t-shirts for sale on the website
00:43:27
shameful if if that is the case and they murder somebody and there's enough evidence to lock their you know bastard
00:43:36
ass up in jail for a long time and then then a couple stupid white guys I'm betting they white white Oh I thought
00:43:46
you talking about us well we are stupid and white um but if they let you go as the parent I
00:43:55
understand that you don't want to have a murdering kid and I understand that you
00:44:00
don't want a piece of [ __ ] douche canoe kid but you don't take them back you're
00:44:05
exactly right you go stay the hell away from me yeah I you're I don't know what happened yeah I don't want you to living
00:44:13
at my house either you know or furthermore down the block from me I mean yeah it the murder the thing is you
00:44:20
know you you think your kids are good people most people think their kids are good people until you're on trial for
00:44:25
Mur but the murder does get overturned however we still have those two cases in California this guy's guilty of
00:44:32
something we know that and and the thing is son or no son I'm a Live and Let Live
00:44:36
person and I try to give people Second Chances and I try to be forgiving of those around me when they make mistakes
00:44:42
the problem here is I don't want this animal living with me I don't want anything to do with this guy and
00:44:49
furthermore I'm not going to lie for you to keep your ass out of prison yeah and
00:44:53
when when you're done talk like that because he only has half of a tongue the guy is guilty okay that that poor girl
00:45:02
was beat to death and in the process she took half of his tongue well right okay
00:45:09
sorry but regarding the statement that he gave to police about that you know stating that he knew that the three
00:45:15
women were dead that he believed that the person that committed the crime had experience and that they were buried
00:45:21
somewhere close to Springfield those are all very kind of vague stat STS and very cocky statements
00:45:27
in my opinion the police did take these statements of course very seriously and still do but also they have reservations
00:45:35
on the validity due to Robert toying with authorities with numerous lies and his constant attention seeking yeah and
00:45:44
he did an interview you know his question and there was an interview I think the 48 Hours of the disappeared or
00:45:50
whatever had a little bit of it I wanted to see the whole thing so i' like to know more of his story there there's
00:45:56
been a local reporter that has covered this and I can't think of her name but she's done a lot of good work on this
00:46:01
case for many years now like I said we're coming up just two year two months away from the 25 year anniversary she's
00:46:09
done a lot of good work on this case and I believe it was an interview with her that she conducted and that's where he
00:46:15
stated you know I know that they're dead and I know that they're buried somewhere around
00:46:20
Springfield uh you know why I partially why I say that those are vague statements is being so far away from you
00:46:28
know TimeWise from the crime it's very likely that all three of them are dead it's probably most likely and it's
00:46:36
probably likely as well that they're buried somewhere around the Springfield area uh this is where you you wonder if
00:46:43
he's just he's just an attention seeking jerk you know because it's like oh well
00:46:49
if they're found buried you know you know months or years from now around the Springfield area then everybody's going
00:46:56
to go yep that Robert Cox he he did it he did it or he knows all about it uh and he he seems to like the attention he
00:47:04
likes being interviewed he likes talking to people he likes throwing out these shocking statements yeah but like like
00:47:10
we said there's all these things that kind of line up and to to think in this small town to have this kind of
00:47:17
disappearance of three people three women in the middle of you know in the middle of the night disappear Into Thin
00:47:24
Air basically mhm and you have this animal running around and he just was just recently there it's just seems to
00:47:31
be too much of a coincidence well and the other thing too is I mean look at look at hiso on three different
00:47:39
occasions okay let's say he's only guilty of the two that he was actually convicted of but on those two occasions
00:47:46
alone and the third one that he suspected of in Florida he was basically driving around looking for a victim it's
00:47:53
not too far-fetched to think that maybe may he was driving around and saw Stacy Mcall driving that night or saw Susie
00:48:00
streer driving that night and followed him back to the house right or when they were walk they were walking around at
00:48:05
some point too I also think the thing is like we said with his occupation he has
00:48:10
you know chances are he was driving some kind of van mhm and then also by working
00:48:14
at the used Card Lot he would have access to other vehicles as well well at the time he was just working the one job
00:48:21
as the utility worker but you're right he would have he would have used a van for that type of job he regardless he
00:48:28
would have had access to his own vehicle or his parents' vehicle from living with
00:48:32
them at the time uh the thing here too talking about his sort of shocking statements there are reports out there
00:48:39
that say that Robert has said that he will tell the truth about Cheryl Suzanne and Stacy once his mother passes away
00:48:48
but he doesn't he won't do that until she passes away because he doesn't want to cause her grief or severe
00:48:54
disappointment can make that happen just let me know where that [ __ ] is well here's a news flash to you Mr Robert Cox
00:49:01
you're serving life in prison in the state of Texas guess what it's too late buddy you've already caused your mother
00:49:07
plenty of grief and plenty of disappointment I shouldn't called her a [ __ ] now yeah it's not her fault that
00:49:13
he's a monster the thing here to but the thing that I don't like about her is that if they're trying to cover up for
00:49:18
his ass I mean maybe they're telling the truth saying hey we were with him that night well then he has an alibi
00:49:23
congratulations M but well they either lying or mistaken you know what I mean I doubt that that it's the truth I just
00:49:30
don't I don't my gut tells me it's not the truth there uh but I do want to be certain to throw this out that regarding
00:49:37
the statements about his mother passing away and that he's holding withholding information until she does uh those
00:49:43
statements cannot be confirmed those are those have been kind of rumored statements right and based off those
00:49:50
statements uh we've had some a lot of people kind of looking for where Maybe they could be buried yes and this is
00:49:57
actually something that they came up with through the tip line and they've received multiple tips about this over
00:50:03
the years that indicate that the bodies of Cheryl Suzanne and Stacy are buried underneath the Southside parking garage
00:50:11
of Cox Hospital uh which you know was being built within the timeline of their disappearance uh just to throw this out
00:50:19
there I don't think that that we need to but you know it's the Cox Hospital we were just talking about Robert Cox mhm
00:50:25
coincidence it's not his hospital just happens to beep name yeah it's a creepy coincidence in 2010 a reporter using her
00:50:32
own money hired a mechanical engineer with a very respectable resume and track record uh he specialized in using radar
00:50:42
to scan underground uh sure enough the tips that were coming in you know that said that
00:50:48
various people might have been buried in the area uh they may have panned out a little bit because while scanning the
00:50:54
garage the engineer noticed three anomalies uh sadly though he couldn't definitively say if they were actually
00:51:02
bodies or not only that they resembled things that he had found in graveyards before when scanning graveyards yeah and
00:51:09
they actually took up a petition on this right sign a petition well because there's a lot of people in the area that
00:51:16
want the they want someone to to do the work and go down there and figure out if
00:51:21
these are in fact bodies now the police they are still skeptical and they are not entirely convinced enough to take
00:51:30
samples uh from the concrete to help further the investigation in this specific area and would rather not cause
00:51:37
destruction to the property of a very busy Hospital well it couldn't be that expensive and I think you look if you
00:51:44
dig it up and you don't find anything fine okay you know you made a mistake it cost you a little bit of money and maybe
00:51:51
they could take up a collection for people willing to help pay for that I think that but at least you'd get
00:51:57
answers mhm the thing here is I'm not certain I don't have an idea of how much it would cost uh I looked at the scan
00:52:04
reports that they put out and I and I'm uncertain of how deep these anomalies were uh but it it seems to me like
00:52:13
depending on the depth that you might be able to just drill a hole and pull samples from from that hole possibly
00:52:21
rather than digging up the whole area you're exactly correct well thank you uh the thing here is like I said you
00:52:27
know a lot of people in the area want this to be done and furthermore there have been people come forward and said
00:52:34
you know what I'll pay for it you know including for them the engineer and this reporter said you know we'll use our
00:52:41
money we'll you know we'll we'll donate our time as well and and pay for this for the city to have it conducted well
00:52:47
because you have the family you know this is a tragic event for the family for one so you need closure for them and
00:52:54
family and friends and all that stuff but closure for the community mhm you know I mean cuz once this happens in '92
00:53:00
I mean people start locking their doors more people not so friendly well not only that I mean the crime the crime as
00:53:07
far as it's concerned on a national level it's often referred to as the Springfield 3 it's the the the case is
00:53:15
damn near named after your city well now I feel bad for calling that you know Springfield 3 on our show should have
00:53:23
made up a different name that's on your head my friend the thing here is though Captain um you know we this is a very
00:53:30
strange disappearance to me we we have a crime scene where there's no evidence it
00:53:35
seems like nobody saw anything I do feel like that there's a lot of good suspects
00:53:41
a l lot of good candidates that are possible abductors I think that we've talked about um you know most of them uh
00:53:49
one thing I do want to point out kind of a side note that on September 27th 1996
00:53:55
7 all three women were declared dead by the state of Missouri and I guess this is kind of a state law that uh five
00:54:04
years after someone goes missing the state can then declare that person dead so their their official date of death
00:54:12
would be listed as June 8th 1997 now some of that has to be done because of you have like probate courts
00:54:19
and things like that when people pass away you have next to Kin and things that can't go into the proper order
00:54:26
until someone's legally declared dead um unfortunately with it being almost 25 years since the case I think we're
00:54:35
probably talking about three murder victims here uh I I I I don't know worldwide how how long it goes I believe
00:54:45
I remember reading about somebody being returned or found 24 years 23 or 24 years after being abducted or held
00:54:53
captive so it's Poss possible it's possible but it's been a very long timeline uh for these women to have been
00:55:00
just disappeared you know of finding them well and I think it's it's very sad when you have two teenage girls you know
00:55:09
becoming young females and and what what they would be able to do with their life
00:55:15
and then you have this this mother that just recently became a single mother and
00:55:19
she seemed to be you know kind of a person that was you know take charge I'm going to take this uh this little tiny
00:55:26
house that's maybe a little bit beat up and I'm going to fix it up and I'm going
00:55:29
to do something with my life empowering I think anytime there's an empowering women it's a good thing and uh somebody
00:55:36
took that away from us and and away from our community mhm so my thoughts here on
00:55:42
this case captain my initial thought when I looked at this was it looked to me like somebody that
00:55:48
knew uh the either the girls or the mother mhm and I'll tell you why I really thought that because at first of
00:55:55
first of all we see no signs of of a forced entry into the home it's almost as if somebody knew how to get into the
00:56:02
home or was let into the house um the other thing that really made me kind of back up that initial thought that it was
00:56:11
somebody that knew them was the was the strange and lewd phone calls after the fact and the reason why is because when
00:56:20
I hear that somebody had just recently moved into the home I didn't think that it was was easily accessible to find
00:56:26
their phone number and that that therefore it would have had to been somebody that knew the situation of the
00:56:32
house would have been led into the home knowing that a man or men did not live there as well as knowing the phone
00:56:40
number that could have been unlisted because they had just moved in the problem is we we did later learn that
00:56:47
Stacy McCall's mother found the address and the phone number in the phone book so uh you know somebody that did not
00:56:55
know them could have gained access to the house somehow by conning their way into the home or being a utility worker
00:57:02
claiming that you know I don't know that you could say your poers out because they probably flipped on a light when
00:57:07
they came and heard the knock at the door right um but the thing here is the other thing that threw me off
00:57:15
was was the phone calls afterwards because you think what kind of weirdo commits this horrible crime and then
00:57:23
would want to potentially gets caught because they're calling after the fact and then the more and more I got to
00:57:29
thinking about it the less that seemed unlikely and and I'll tell you why because you know we covered back in
00:57:36
episode 35 we covered Dorothy Jane Scott and remember she received phone calls all the way up to her abduction and then
00:57:45
her family still received phone calls many for four years I believe after the abduction in that same episode we talked
00:57:52
about a a victim named Amy bck and her family received phone calls for like 20 years after she disappeared with
00:58:00
the Long Island serial killer it's believed that he used the victim's own cell phone to call the victim's sister
00:58:09
and make threatening phone calls to her after the fact so I don't think it's that crazy you know when I first looked
00:58:15
into this I thought we were probably looking at this ex-boyfriend and his friends as being good suspects because
00:58:21
there were three of them and they seem to have some kind of motive and might have been able to get into the house
00:58:26
right they would have known that there was no man there um the other thing too is I also wondered if it was somebody a
00:58:33
little more that that less that didn't have an axxe to grind I wondered if maybe they hadn't changed the locks when
00:58:39
they moved in that if somebody would have had a key and knew that women lived there and they were some sicko and
00:58:45
decided well this is an easy target for me right the thing here is though the more that I look at this I feel like a
00:58:53
guy like Robert Cox kind of fits this case better than somebody that knew them I think I personally think that if it
00:59:01
wasn't somebody that knew the victims I think that we might have the the the main guy or guys on our list that we
00:59:09
talked about today and yesterday and I think a guy like Robert Cox could have saw one of those young attractive women
00:59:15
driving around or walking around like you said followed them back to the house and it may be something as simple as two
00:59:23
girls coming in late at night one of them didn't lock the door and he sits outside and he waits for all the lights
00:59:29
to turn off and he waits a 45 minutes or an hour afterwards probably assumes that
00:59:35
they've all gone to bed by this point he can catch them off guard and he happened
00:59:39
to go up to the door and it happened to be unlocked he let himself in turns on the TV to create some kind of white
00:59:46
noise effect or maybe that has something to do with the dog I can't figure that part out the lining up of the purses is
00:59:53
weird to me too because I can't can't fully grasp if that was something that was done by people that just happen to
00:59:59
walk into the house afterward you know that could have been in the police said maybe nine or 10 people were in there
01:00:05
right or all the girls put put their purses together for whatever reason but but it's still weird to me because I
01:00:11
believe that all three purses were in one bedroom which would be weird that the mother would leave her purse in the
01:00:17
daughter's bedroom or the daughter leave it in the mothers to me it almost strikes me as you know like when you s
01:00:24
when if these guys when they're in there trying to gain control of a situation they have to kind of calm down their
01:00:30
victims and and one thing that sometimes they will do is claim like well I'm just
01:00:34
here to rob you I'm not here to take you anywhere I'm not here to do anything terrible to you so let's get I need
01:00:40
everybody to get their purses you know what I mean that kind of thing now we know that the purses weren't ransacked
01:00:46
because there weren't Keys taken there weren't money taken it it's been reported that maybe up to $700 was in
01:00:52
Cheryl's purse right and that's the other thing why I think that these three boys didn't did not do it they they
01:00:58
couldn't stop themselves from selling gold teeth for $30 to the pawn shop right I don't think that they would have
01:01:04
between the three of them been able to stop themselves from rifling through the purses and taking cash money yeah one of
01:01:10
them would have yeah well and maybe the TV too was just turned on for for light yeah I mean like you couldn't find a
01:01:17
switch or whatever the the busted uh front porch light always gets me is weird yeah yeah well in this Cox guy
01:01:25
it's like I want to call him something MH you know it's I I don't know what it's called it's it's right on the tip
01:01:32
of my tongue yeah I don't really think with the three boys I don't look just because
01:01:39
you're able to steal stuff from a grave doesn't mean that you're able to actually kill and and and bury three
01:01:48
individuals uh I I don't know but I think this Cox character I wish you'd come forward and and say more and uh you
01:01:56
know maybe he will one day and maybe the community and the family members will get some closure cuz like I said I mean
01:02:02
it's just it's you know it's tragic that it's women but also women that were just
01:02:08
in their Prime of of really creating a life and a future for themselves well the thing here is too what I would like
01:02:14
to see happen is I would like to see law enforcement really stay on to Larry Hall
01:02:21
and his brother Gary Hall not just for the sake of this case of the Springfield 3 but it looks like Larry's certainly
01:02:29
guilty of a lot of other things that we are yet to know about and he seems like he somewhat wants to talk and get some
01:02:35
of the stuff off of his chest he's he's confessed to things recanted he's confessed to things where he's not given
01:02:41
names or places or dates I think at some point if you pressure this guy long and
01:02:46
hard enough that I think that he will open up and talk and maybe we can get some of these get some closure for the
01:02:51
families and get some cases off of the books the the other thing too is don't forget about the Brother Gary he seems
01:02:57
to want to talk even though he's throwing all the blame on his brother Larry let's let's get him to talk as
01:03:03
well because maybe he can help us out even even if Gary's not guilty of anything maybe he can help us out with
01:03:09
with cases involving his brother and to the brother and to all the families really we're we are sorry for your loss
01:03:15
and and hopefully one day we'll get closure and and I don't understand why the police department wanted to say hey
01:03:22
look we're going to do testing on this Con and at least uh to figure out if this is yes or no M and so that they can
01:03:30
move forward and like I said the community can move forward as well all right recommended reading for this week
01:03:36
for this week we are recommending warnings unheeded by Andy Brown this is really an incredible story Andy Brown
01:03:44
tells the true story that he lived this is the true story of a law enforcement officer who kills a mass murderer and
01:03:51
then he tells us the fascinating detail and the Twisted circumstances that brought the two of them together on that
01:03:58
faithful day you have to check out warnings unheated by Andy Brown there is really no other book out there like this
01:04:05
it's warnings unheated by Andy Brown and you can pick that up by going to True Crim garage.com and click on the
01:04:10
recommended page we have all of our books that we're recommending there and you can purchase those through the
01:04:15
Amazon Banner all right it's getting hot in the garage hot in the hot thank God it's warming up though it's getting hot
01:04:21
in the garage and the captain needs to cut the grass I'm not cutting the grass that's way you
01:04:26
cut the grass we want to thank everybody for joining us in the garage this week and until next week go by the douche
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canoe shirts and be good don't be a douche canoe and buy good well well don't be a douche canoe and buy the
01:04:39
douche Cano shirt that's right and until next time be good be kind don't let her
01:04:56
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