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subject to credit approval C store or ashley.com for [Music] [Applause] details welcome to True Crime garage wherever
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you are whatever you are doing thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always as a man that just
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informed me that the True Crime garage Army has gone bazooka he is the captain I've always been a Bubblicious man
00:01:57
myself but it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a
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[Music] friend tonight we are drinking brawler by yards Brewing Company from the City
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of Brotherly Love Philadelphia Pennsylvania garage grade three and 1 12 bottle caps out of five brawler is an
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English ale that is delicately hopped for knockout flavor and its smooth character adds to its drink ability and
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Yard's Brawler was brought to us by our garage brothers and sisters first up we have Sharon and colandra Queensland
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and you find them in the iTunes Store as well all right that's enough of the business gather around grab a chair grab
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a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime this was a case that you wrote about yeah I I I actually wrote about
00:04:00
this case when I was still a crime reporter I was working at the free times up in Cleveland in 2006 about a year
00:04:06
after he disappeared how much time did you spend looking into Ray's case um I I'd say it was a good month to six weeks
00:04:16
kind of learning the ins and outs of of the Greek card disappearance and you know we only had we only had a little
00:04:23
bit of information at the time uh because it was only about a year after he disappeared but it was all already it
00:04:30
struck me as a mystery that was going to last it was very weird in the same way that Mor Murray's case kind of stuck out
00:04:38
for me because just like Mor Murray here we have somebody who disappeared there's
00:04:45
no evidence of a crime and it the clues can take you any way you want to go you've got possible
00:04:53
suicide you've got motive for murder was it a murder um did he walk away to start
00:04:59
New Life somewhere um there's evidence for that too and beyond that there's like a there's like a a sparkle of the
00:05:09
Paranormal in this one too that suggests some sort of connection to of all things
00:05:15
and I know how crazy this is going to sound oh here we go time travel okay um and and I want to get into James has
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lost this is mine I've just lost all credibility but but stick around you you'll like there's there's some neat
00:05:30
things that that uh about Greek car and and this idea of time I'm not saying he he he was a time traveler I'm saying he
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might have disappeared in a way that would lead people to believe that anyways we'll get um so yeah you have
00:05:49
the you've set up the case well the the particulars of the case um but you know I I guess we could go you know in order
00:05:57
of you know Poss possibilities here you know look at suicide I and I kind of don't think it's you know I I don't
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think it's suicide but to support that you've got the fact that his brother Roy disappeared in
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1996 and his body was found in the river um and then you look at Ray grear and his Mini Cooper was uh found
00:06:25
by the river mhm and that's where he disappeared they eventually found his computer and hard drive in the river the
00:06:33
some fishermen fished up the hard drive or some fishermen fished up the laptop and then about a month later a woman
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finds the hard drive so but then they never found Ray's body mhm and if you're going to jump into a river if you're
00:06:48
going to walk into a river you know do the was it Virginia wolf or uh you know weigh your pockets down with rocks and
00:06:55
walk in the body is going to turn up it's really hard to get rid of a body by committing suicide by jumping into a
00:07:03
river it'll it'll float it'll show up it'll you know we found the laptop we found the hard drive but no Ray so right
00:07:10
so that almost leads the the evidence that he did jump in cuz you found those other items but again yeah if he did
00:07:17
where's the where's the body there to support that theory you know you've got you know some people look at how he was
00:07:24
uh looking to retire and you know didn't really know what to do with himself and
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uh you know was looking at that and kind of depressed and you know he had his his
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job was his life more so than any of the women because he'd been married twice and divorced twice and you seeing this
00:07:43
this coworker there so um well you see that a lot with men is their their work is their identity once they lose their
00:07:52
work they lose their identity and they don't know what to do with themselves so you so the theory is
00:07:59
that well I'm going to retire and I have I'm nobody anymore so I'll just end it but another thing about the the suicide
00:08:08
theory is that he had this daughter Laura and and by all accounts you know he loved her very much and and they were
00:08:14
close when she was growing up in fact he was kind of when they moved there his wife had the job and he was stay-at-home
00:08:21
dad now it's it's interesting to note that Laura is is adopted um it's not his biological daughter and I've never
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really figured out the the backstory to that like how that adoption process worked was it did they adopt from
00:08:37
somebody that they knew or did they go through the typical adoption process and it was you know um so that that's
00:08:44
something I'd really like to know about but if it was suicide Ry didn't really set things up to take care of Laura in
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his absence this is one of the more interesting things about Ry in my opinion he was was the da of Center
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County Penn State you know is his jurisdiction but when he died he there's almost no money in his his accounts MH
00:09:10
um his bank account has hardly any money in it there's he he never bought anything in his name the car was in his
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girlfriend's name um he had no assets so where's all that money that he was making did he really spend it all did he
00:09:25
not budget well or or did did he have some sort of separate account you know the police looked at the suicide Theory
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and thought maybe he had been contemplating suicide for a while because the day before his
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disappearance he was seen in another body of water near this Reservoir and he seemed to be like walking around in kind
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of contemplating life the witnesses said and you know he was he thinking about his brother and reminiscing about that
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and wondering about that so you know there's that possibility of suicide um just like the mor case though there are
00:09:59
a lot of rabbit holes that you could go down because there are clues that don't seem to make much sense uh you go back
00:10:05
to the Mini Cooper there was some cigarette Ash found inside the car he was vehemently against smoking he didn't
00:10:13
smoke himself it smelled of smoke when the detectives opened the car as if somebody had just been smoking before
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shutting it up and uh his cell phone was in there so who was smoking in that car
00:10:25
right um there was a witness uh at this antique like Mall antique store where the Mini Cooper was found it was found
00:10:35
in this parking lot Ray was seen there with an unidentified woman um beautiful you know attractive woman so who was
00:10:43
that you know and what does she have to do with with this whole thing um he was very much a charmer you know he very
00:10:52
private person on one on one hand very private but was also very very flirtatious with
00:11:00
with women and was known you know at the local Diner to you know pick favorite waitresses and always you know flirt
00:11:07
with them and um you know always be you know with with his other wives there was
00:11:12
always you know these rumors of infidelity and you know hanging out with women and so did that have something to
00:11:19
do with his disappearance was that on his mind or did he have a a side piece right that was now breaking it off or
00:11:29
who was married and yeah or who was breaking it off yeah or or maybe he was not telling some of these ladies that he
00:11:36
was married and had a kid and you know what I mean like yeah well he wasn't married at the time of his disappearance
00:11:42
he was he had a he had this girlfriend that was they were living together they were very you know of course right but
00:11:48
still he could have been telling you know the girls that he meets oh W I'm single right and I don't have anybody in
00:11:54
my life and blah blah blah and then once the you know the side piece then finds out he does have a life they're like
00:12:00
well I'm going to tell on you right CU that happens often whoever this was hasn't come out you know since The
00:12:06
Disappearance then you look at the case for murder and you know there are a lot of times I kind of lean this way um
00:12:14
because there's definitely motive for murder and but at the time in 2006 when I reported on this it seemed very
00:12:20
unlikely like who would have had the who would have had the balls to kill a DA in
00:12:25
Center County well you know 5 years later after my article came out uh Jerry sanduski is arrested and charged with
00:12:34
all these counts of you know molesting boys at Penn State and then it comes out that the prosecutor in charge of Center
00:12:43
County who was Ray grear knew about this in 1998 yeah he had investigated it for he
00:12:50
had investigated for some time having spoken to um one of the victims right however they had no evidence to pursue
00:12:59
the charges other than this boy statement the boy statement and they actually got sanduski to come in and and
00:13:06
they like tape this interview where it was this weird thing that Ry had set up where he got the boy in the same room as
00:13:13
sanduski just to see like what sanduski would say or his body language and there
00:13:19
was an expert there that told that told grear he's like look this guy you know without a doubt this guy's a pedophile
00:13:27
and you know he could have charged sanduski at that time and saved you know maybe further victimization or whatever
00:13:35
but if if anybody really runs Center County Penn State at that time it's Joe pno right right um this revered you know
00:13:45
coach and you know his reputation as we saw was destroyed along with sandusky's uh the question is you know
00:13:52
how much he knew and for how long was it ry's ultimate decision to not prosecute
00:13:57
sandeski was it was it somebody else was it pno was it was it pressure from somewhere you know was this something
00:14:04
that that Greek are always felt guilty about and I wonder if you know he was looking at retiring in
00:14:11
December of 2005 he disappeared in April was he thinking about opening that case opening that can of worms before he
00:14:21
retired so that he would have a clear conscience um and be able to go on um was he reopening that and did he you
00:14:30
know did he meet with pno did he meet with sanduski or or somebody else that was you know wrapped up in all this and
00:14:38
was it that person was he trying to keep it kind of off the Record until he had more those people certainly had a motive
00:14:45
to get rid of Ray Greek car I think um well well it's similar to like Spotlight too I mean with the idea of well we
00:14:53
don't want to go after you know the Catholic church because of how big they are right and I
00:14:59
would and we could argue that college football at Penn State is possibly bigger yeah than Church oh for sure for
00:15:08
some people it is church you know um absolutely and I think there there they might be wrapped up in there somewhere
00:15:16
yeah there's another possibility here one of the reasons um Greek car didn't prosecute sanduski was some sort of
00:15:24
culpability um you know there there were some weird internet searches mhm on Greek car's computer before he
00:15:30
disappeared and the one of the police officers who was investigating the case suggested to me that um some of the
00:15:38
searches had to do with um you know being on the down low you know was there some sort of you know sexual promiscuity
00:15:46
you know something weird going on there I tend to not not really buy into that because it by all appearances it seems
00:15:53
that you know Ry was really really into women you know so meaning that the searches he was looking
00:16:02
up were you know possibly that he let um a gay lifestyle outside of the public eye some of the police wondered if he
00:16:12
wasn't cruising these parks for men okay um because he was seen at these Parks you know right before he disappeared and
00:16:20
they were some of the places he was seen were known you know cruising spots at the time right and but maybe possibly
00:16:28
the you know if I if I act like a ladies man sure then that you know and I'm kind
00:16:34
of flamboyant about that well that I think flamboyant might not been the right choice awards but if I'm you know
00:16:42
outwardly oh man I love women then that's a pretty easy cover up for my alternative lifestyle I I don't know how
00:16:50
much I I buy into that um or how much you know evidence there really is to that and and that still doesn't explain
00:16:58
where the B body is you know if if it does turn out to be murder um yeah but that would also
00:17:04
possibly be a reason for suicide somebody that has lived such a long life and they feel for whatever reason that
00:17:11
they can't you know live their live a life where they can be true to themselves right and he like without a
00:17:19
doubt in my mind Greek car is the one that wrecked his computer and hard drive so what was on the computer and hard
00:17:26
drive that needed to be destroyed right somebody in Greek car's home that he was
00:17:32
sharing with Patty fornicola some and this is probably Ray himself uh was searching was Googling you know how to
00:17:41
destroy a hard drive uh how water destroys hard drive so he had this plan when he went there to destroy this hard
00:17:49
drive what was on there was it something to be murdered for was it something he was going to be shamed for and he
00:17:56
committed suicide was it plans to run away was it his you know bank accounts and uh the the things he had set in
00:18:05
motion to walk away and as more time goes by I find myself just like in Mar Murray's case I'm leaning to this idea
00:18:14
that he that he planned to start a new life and well but possibly again cuz if you're leading this other lifestyle that
00:18:25
maybe you can't come out as your yourself sure but the idea that well I can start a new life start a new name
00:18:34
and I don't have to worry about being shamed at all because I'm just this new person new person but again it's one of
00:18:41
those pieces of evidence that like can lean either way right but have we had anybody that has come out in the last uh
00:18:51
10 years or so that has said that they've had a romantic relationship with them as as like a man saying that not
00:18:58
that I not that I know not that I know and that's and that's why I think that that that might be not actually what was
00:19:06
going on there I mean he certainly had characteristics that would seem a little you know effeminate or or prissy you
00:19:14
know he's a very clean meticulous type of person but I think that was just his you know kind of slightly on the autism
00:19:21
spectrum you know ocess that was Ray I want to talk a little bit more about the like the the theories that back up the
00:19:28
walk away like why he like he's about to turn 60 he's going to retire why then why is he retiring then MH well it it
00:19:37
seems to me like or not retiring but why would he walk away at that point right because that seems like the least likely
00:19:43
time to walk away he's going to get a retirement he's going to get a pension for this job that he's done forever um
00:19:51
it's he had plans to travel um these don't point to anything any reasons to walk away unless he was a
00:20:01
spy for Slovenia which out of context sounds ridiculously silly but let me break it
00:20:12
down okay and this now pulls into question whether or not his brother's suicide was in fact a suicide right um
00:20:20
after keep in mind that Greek card disappears he's making good money but nobody can find any accounting of that
00:20:27
money he's got no Assets in his name um a couple years ago uh uh Deadspin uh one of their reporters puts
00:20:35
in a public records request for the FBI file and CIA file of Ray grear and it comes back redacted for national
00:20:43
security reasons and the CIA is involved and says you can't we can't release certain bits of information related to
00:20:49
Ray gard's disappearance now what is in the world is the CIA doing involved in Ray Greer's disappearance and this
00:20:57
disappearance of this um this um da well right there is a really good sighting of
00:21:04
Rey after his disappearance in Southfield Michigan this is so cool because the person who who spotted Greek
00:21:13
car was a retired police detective who did when he was working for the police did composite sketches okay so this is
00:21:21
the guy you go to yeah this is the eyewitness you want this is the best eyewitness ever and he says he
00:21:28
definitely saw Ray Greek car after he disappeared in Southfield Michigan now what's important about Southfield
00:21:34
Michigan it's nothing we I don't give a [ __ ] about Michigan Right nothing's up
00:21:40
there except except for the Macedonian consulate and if you're on if you're laying low and you want to leave the
00:21:50
country and get a visa to Slovenia you would go through the Macedonian that would be the closest place that Ray
00:21:56
grear could get to go through GRE there and he has citizenship his um I think grandfather or something uh his
00:22:04
ancestors came from Slovenia um so he could apply for a Visa and get taken over there and everything
00:22:11
would be kosher that's how he could escape the United States under under radar the FBI file also shows that grear
00:22:19
took two trips to Yugoslavia which is now part of Slovenia he took two trips to Yugoslavia during the Cold War um in
00:22:29
1973 and 1984 for the FBI these are red flags why is this young man in 1973 traveling to
00:22:38
Yugoslavia into the Soviet Union well but it is it is his motherland it's his yes right but does he I I don't know
00:22:47
that he would have any living relatives there they would be distant but that doesn't really matter right but let's
00:22:53
consider he was turned at that point he and his brother turn to uh to protect the motherland to gather
00:23:03
information um to be a sleeper agent essentially what better job would there be than you know a a district attorney
00:23:14
uh in Pennsylvania um which is near shoot Center county is is very close to another uh there is this very famous
00:23:23
case of this directly north there's another County in Pennsylvania north of Center
00:23:29
County very famous case where this government official uh was uh turned out to be very corrupt and was uh laundering
00:23:37
money through uh the government system and disappeared he ends up in Slovenia um with all these foreign connections so
00:23:47
U I'm not saying this is exactly what happened but if GRE car and his brother were involved in Espionage it would
00:23:55
explain the FBI's presence the CIA presence it would explain possibly the brother's suicide that wasn't actually a
00:24:02
suicide maybe it was murder um and it would explain why Gard decides to disappear then because he's finished his
00:24:09
mission he's finished his uh his his duty which is to work in government in America uh and to do what he can for
00:24:19
this the the Homeland and now he gets to go home right you know but in order to go home he has to burn his old id you
00:24:27
know he's got the Burn Notice um yeah but also too I mean it could be you have this um talented smart
00:24:37
prosecutor and it could be not working for his motherland it could be working for the United States as well right you
00:24:45
could take it the other way right you know and that's why he' visit in 73 then ' 84 and then well we're going to have
00:24:52
to have you go missing here so then exactly when you go back home you're a new person
00:24:58
was he one of our spies was he one and you think you know and that sounds crazy too but people have to understand like
00:25:05
the the FBI and the CIA they recruit people well they they got to depending on what the mission is they're going to
00:25:12
recruit somebody in their 20s or 30s 40s 50s and so on and you know he's already
00:25:18
working in the system mhm you know and somebody like that might go well this is a prestigious move up you know right um
00:25:26
right they could set up the secret accounts for him the Swiss bank accounts that he must have had you know to funnel
00:25:33
his money we'll take care of all the stuff and then when it when it comes out that you're um you're you're missing I
00:25:39
mean we're going to be investigating this but you know you've worked the mara Murray case for so long to get the FBI
00:25:45
or the CIA involved in a missing person case it's really hard to do and you got both of them in this Cas which is
00:25:56
fascinating [Music] this show is sponsored by better help do you look forward to the holidays maybe
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hp.com garage explore today's must have Trends and Innovative Styles at Mrs B's clearance
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00:28:11
Nick is in Florida he's having a good time keeps on sending me pictures of beers and uh I think he's drunk in every
00:28:19
picture he sent me but I'll I'll post those on Instagram also quick reminder we have hoodies for sale people have
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one now at true Crim garage.com and click on the store page so let's get back to the conversation that we had
00:28:45
with James rener about the vanishing Man Ray Greek [Music] car and then you've got the time travel
00:28:55
as I was in investigating his disappearance back in 2006 somebody directed me I was directed
00:29:03
to this book this obscure sci-fi book called 2020 Vision written by Pamela West uh in the
00:29:11
80s and I it was hard to track down a copy I think it's out of print but I was able to get one through
00:29:17
Amazon and I picked it up and at first glance you're like what does this have to do with Ray grear and you read the
00:29:23
book and it's about this detective who had this one case he could never for solve near Penn
00:29:29
State and uh he ends up growing old and in some ways this this has shades of Primrose Lane in it and uh grows old and
00:29:39
then uses uh time travel in order to go back and save this woman from being killed like Quantum Leap kind of like
00:29:47
Quantum Leap yeah right and the interesting thing about it is the date that this guy disappears in the book is
00:29:56
April 15th and there are Clues like a little bit of cigarette Ash found inside his vehicle
00:30:03
and he didn't smoke and his car was found by a river and every you realize that everything from this sci-fi book
00:30:10
about time travel this guy that disappears inside the book matches up with everything about Ray's
00:30:16
disappearance even the date MH and you would think this is total coincidence Until you realize and find out that Ray
00:30:23
grear was the consultant on the book 2020 vision right and Pamela West was a journalist
00:30:32
professor at Penn State and she's writing under a pen name and for a while I wondered if Ray grear wasn't in fact
00:30:39
Pam West but he's not she really does exist and what she wanted to do was she wanted to write a true crime book called
00:30:49
uh about the Betsy arsma case right which is a famous unsolved case out of Penn State have you guys done that one
00:30:55
yet no but was that the girl that was killed in the library yes her body stabbed y her body was found in the
00:31:01
stacks and this was like back in 69 that her body was found in the stacks in the
00:31:08
library at Penn State and when they found her body they couldn't figure out how she died she was just dead on the
00:31:13
floor and what they found later was she was stabbed once directly through the chest into her heart um and it was a
00:31:22
clean cut in out and she bled inside so there's no blood outside of her body and
00:31:28
she dropped dead like that to this day that case remains unsolved now Pamela West thought she knew who did it and she
00:31:37
wanted to write a book explaining who did it and all of her evidence for it and she went to Greek car asking help
00:31:43
you know how do I do this without getting sued and he said well why don't you put all the details in there and
00:31:48
just make it fictitious you know add some sci-fi to it and that way you get you get you know what you've done all
00:31:55
this research can go to something but you know you're you're not going to be able to name the person you think did it
00:32:02
so was this if if Greek car is going to walk away you know was he doing it in some sort of funny you know was he
00:32:11
having a little fun with it oh he's leaving a clue right like I helped with this book one of the big things was that
00:32:19
this guy has to go missing or back in time right and and what happened in the book okay well I need to go Miss SC I'm
00:32:27
just going to do that yeah and somebody's going to get the reference it might take him a while that's what I'm
00:32:33
think but you got the reference right right so I hope that that's what happened and and he was having a little
00:32:39
fun with his disappearance it seems too much of a coincidence to me the exact date the fact that GRE car was the
00:32:45
consultant on this cigarette Ash the cigarette Ash everything matches those are that that's tiny details if it was
00:32:52
just guy went back in time and here was the date and then he went missing I'd go
00:32:56
well there's that's one right and but once you get those little small right details isn't that weird yeah the the
00:33:03
other thought that people have had along those lines is you know was he close to
00:33:09
did he want to go after Betsy arts's killer before he retired and did he try to meet with Betsy arsouth killer there
00:33:16
and there was a scuffle and he was murdered and but then again you you still don't have a body so um well and
00:33:24
it doesn't explain the the hard drive and the computer in the the lake exactly well maybe you could clear up a few um
00:33:34
things since you did speak with the investigator yeah sure um there was there was rumor from his
00:33:43
co-workers and his girlfriend that he was may have been suffering from depression mhm that he was acting
00:33:51
strange that and out of character that week leading up to his disappearance uh one thing that keeps coming up as a
00:34:00
question mark amongst a lot of people is his his day his morning before he disappeared was he did he leave work
00:34:10
early did he not go into work at all that day I've I've seen it reported both ways from what I've heard he you know so
00:34:19
he disappears on a it's a Friday Friday April 15th and from what I understand he
00:34:24
was at work the day before but then he called off he was playing hookie you know he he was
00:34:30
supposed to be in a work but and nobody thought that that was too weird because he was you know getting ready for
00:34:35
retirement and he would often take these days where he'd just drive into the country and go antiquing you know um
00:34:44
where he was possibly meeting up with this other woman who knows but anyways it wasn't that out of
00:34:51
character what was odd is so he calls off on that that Friday one of his Co co- workers also prosecutor swears 100%
00:35:00
swears he saw Greek car there that day in somebody in the passengers seat of somebody else's car and he had come in
00:35:11
it looked like he had come in and maybe forgot something and was you know but he
00:35:15
was pulling out of the prosecutor's office in the passenger seat of somebody else's car and he made note of it
00:35:21
because he's like what you know he's not supposed to be in today he's here he's in who's driving the car so what's he
00:35:28
doing back at at the office that day but there's no record of him actually going
00:35:33
into the office not that we've not that we found no uhuh he was oh I forgot to mention this Greek car was also obsessed
00:35:42
with an Ohio case uh unsolved case um that he mentioned to a number of co-workers in the weeks leading up to
00:35:49
and the months leading up to his disappearance and that's the unsolved disappearance of Mel Wy Mel was the
00:35:56
chief of police in I want to say bath but I'm not entirely sure it was near bath Ohio and uh this was in the 70s or
00:36:05
80s I believe but he disappeared one day and they found his shoes and clothes and
00:36:11
uh his wallet tucked into his shoes on uh Edgewater Beach up in Cleveland and they're like wow he must have drowned
00:36:18
out there but they never found a body M and then they went back and went to his typewriter and were able to extract like
00:36:24
all the letters that he had written and very obviously this guy had planned for his disappearance and was you know going
00:36:32
off to California but he did it in a way he was never found again and he was working in government and he had this
00:36:39
top position and this guy just up and disappeared started a new life and GRE car knew about it and was kind of
00:36:48
weirdly obsessed about it and had mentioned that case to a couple people so it was on his mind mhm yeah or again
00:36:53
maybe leaving little bread crumbs right right right like I can't tell you where I'm going but when I disappear I'm
00:37:02
going to be okay yeah I think might have been what he was telling people was very
00:37:05
strange with the lack of money in the bank that to me says volumes it says that there's an account out there we
00:37:14
don't know about he didn't seem to be living a frivolous lifestyle yeah he wasn't like no extravagant living he
00:37:21
didn't have his own house he was living with his his girlfriend um if he was bro
00:37:26
he could have attempted to get reelected and keep his position exactly for another four years right right he wasn't
00:37:35
broke we just don't know where his money is yeah he's probably at least making six figures you would think so 10 State
00:37:41
yeah yeah so he calls off there is an eyewitness that says that they believe they saw him at work in the parking lot
00:37:49
that clears up the discrepancy of did he actually go into work and just do a half
00:37:53
day and leave as far as his vehicle goes we should probably set this up a little
00:37:59
bit because he had a Mini Cooper red Mini Cooper yeah and this wasn't just like oh go out and buy a um fuel
00:38:08
efficient car to get you to and from work he was a a driver yeah he liked to take long drives he seemed to be
00:38:14
particular about his vehicle yeah um the vehicle that was in his girlfriend's name it was his which is weird and so
00:38:21
that makes the that makes the cigarette ashes even more strange because it he doesn't we don't see any signs that he
00:38:29
would have allowed somebody to smoke in his car right just kind of willy-nilly it seemed like something that he that he
00:38:36
wouldn't let happen absolutely unless it's his last last time in that car you know I I picture what I picture is his
00:38:44
sexy CIA Handler you know coming in and you know they they sit in the car for a minute and then he and she's like you
00:38:53
know got the cigarette in her mouth and she's like well Ray it's been a trip take one last look at Happy Valley
00:39:00
before we get to before I take you back to Slovenia right um and then they get into a waiting black sedan and you know
00:39:08
drive off into the sunset so his his uh laptop that's later found it's a county issued right laptop and that's why I
00:39:19
brought up the whole thing of whether he was at work that day or not because a lot of people have questioned well if he
00:39:25
called off and didn't go into work How likely would it be that he would have had that computer with him at the time
00:39:31
of his disappearance right I think I from what I understand it was a it was issued through work but it was a laptop
00:39:39
that he could take home and do his work there so you know I I don't I don't put too much into that um I wouldn't look
00:39:47
too hard into that for Clues his cell phone's found in his vehicle uh his keys wallet never found
00:39:56
oh that's right yeah right and is the vehicle locked I can't remember but I do know locked the vehicle's locked no keys
00:40:03
in the cell phones in the car but turned off that sounds right yeah and this is a
00:40:08
county issued cell phone as well I you know again like I don't want to get tracked so I'm leaving this cell phone
00:40:16
here I've got my burner on Me Maybe um or if he was murdered you know nobody else wants that bit of evidence being
00:40:24
able to tie them to it later mhm so again you've got these clues that can lead you both ways I tend to lead more
00:40:31
towards you know these these all seem like clues that he himself was responsible for mhm I'd love to see what
00:40:38
was on that laptop they've never been able even though they recovered the hard drive they've never been able to extract
00:40:45
any data out of it because it was in the river so long yeah and if anybody's going to be able to would have been the
00:40:51
CIA or right FBI they had a a group that works with NASA examine the the hard drive and they weren't able to pull
00:41:00
anything out of it yeah well it's interesting to me because like like you said the connection with the book The
00:41:06
Connection to this Ohio case it seems like he had some in interest in starting over it does you know and if none of
00:41:15
that were to happen you know it would look more it really would look more like a a murder you know abduction mhm well
00:41:23
the tough thing about you know when they're like well we think the body went in the river I mean yeah suicide or
00:41:29
murder you would expect that at some point you'd find the body there is always that possibility that you sure
00:41:36
that random case that they just right you know and getting to the abduction you know Murder thing that's very
00:41:43
unlikely with a 60-year-old Man Too unless it's like I mean if he was if we're talking abduction from the scene
00:41:51
and murder it would suggest organized crime to some extent yeah well possibly and
00:41:57
well then if it's then you got to look into his brother's death as well exactly right yeah you know cuz maybe that was
00:42:03
not a suicide and then it's how now how are these murders connected right well maybe not though his brother's not a
00:42:10
district attorney a district attorney can create a lot of enemies that's true yeah yeah especially over a
00:42:17
20year time frame yeah definitely but what was his brother involved in because you know what I mean cuz sometimes you
00:42:26
it's like maybe his brother was I I don't know much about his brother at all but I'm just saying if you wanted to
00:42:33
start speculating going down that rabbit hole it's like what is this you know yeah I'm this uh prosecutor and I'm
00:42:39
doing well for myself but this guy's struggling so maybe I know some people that can help him out or maybe he's just
00:42:46
a bad seed right the the brother too could just be a legitimate suicide right although you know suicides very rarely
00:42:55
just walk into a River you know that's very determined you know there are better ways to kill yourself especially
00:43:01
for men men are usually gun you know to the mouth uh more violent you know they don't usually walk into a river to drown
00:43:09
themselves well his his brother you know in the river kills himself vehicle found
00:43:16
near a bridge yep Ray disappears his items are found in or on the banks of the river yep and his vehicle's found
00:43:25
near a bridge yep if he disappeared he wanted to you know that clearly that would have been
00:43:31
on his mind you know is he does he want us to think about that is is he trying to suggest that it was suicide really
00:43:39
walk away I you know the more I think about this case as weird as it sounds I lean towards the Spy theory that he was
00:43:48
either one of us or you know spying for them and I'd love to go I'd love to go to Slovenia and just like look around
00:43:56
for a while well he'd be how old now oh shoot he'd be 70 mhm 74 yeah but the thing here is here's
00:44:09
what I question about him walking away or being a spy and choosing that okay now it's time for me to
00:44:16
go isn't it in an extreme poor taste to leave your vehicle in the same situation
00:44:25
that you're brother's vehicle was found in when you have a daughter I don't care
00:44:30
adopted or not you have a nephew uh that was the son of his brother uh you do have some family that lived through an
00:44:39
experience where a relative went missing vehicle found near a bridge he's missing
00:44:44
for about a week until they figure out that he's in the river and then they ultimately rule it a suicide so now I'm
00:44:51
planning my disappearance I'm planning to walk away I'm going to in the poorest of taste leave my vehicle
00:44:59
next to a bridge in in my items in the river that's a really good that's a really good point I hadn't thought about
00:45:06
before that would be kind of a uh a mean thing to do for your for your who who you you know assume would be his loved
00:45:15
ones um but let me ask you this like let's say he was a spy and it was time to go back home to the motherland how
00:45:22
would you do it without telling everybody you were a spy how would you disappear me I would personally I think
00:45:30
that walking away is is rude and bad enough on its own well I I kind of wish you would walk but what I'm saying is
00:45:38
you can attempt to do it without a trace but but you you could leave the veh you
00:45:42
know you could drive the vehicle off into the woods somewhere yeah but you could leave the vehicle at your house
00:45:46
and it actually then becomes even more of a mystery cuz it's like what so he disappeared from his house and but his
00:45:52
cars here and maybe he was doing them a favor by by not not leaving it at the house so the investigators wouldn't look
00:45:59
at the people that live there aspects okay so he drives it out there and he's got his brother in mind yeah I
00:46:07
just don't know that if if that's your if that's who you are if that's your identity and you you have to do this one
00:46:13
way or another is there is there a decent way to do it that's true and now you know I didn't even think about that
00:46:20
until we start talking but yeah of course if he's doing that he's going to make sure that he doesn't disappear from
00:46:26
home because he doesn't want his loved ones to be sus don't implicate Patty in anything that she was unaware of yeah so
00:46:32
yeah it's that weird piece of evidence where it goes back and forth cuz in one in one sense it's like well this is in
00:46:38
really bad taste right but in the other sense it basically leads you to believe that you know because of his brother and
00:46:47
because of everything going on in retirement that he was so depressed that he took his own life you know and also
00:46:53
he he does it during the day when he knows his girlfriend's at work and has witnesses that put her at work MH so
00:47:00
he's furthering right like doing damage control for her well yeah damage control
00:47:07
there but also almost damage control for the family where it's like yeah they've
00:47:12
been through that before and that was traumatic yeah but it's almost understandable right you know the second
00:47:19
time it's like well he was depressed and his brother and maybe this was his way of being with his brother right you know
00:47:26
right I think we've solved it here I think he's I don't like the other woman Theory
00:47:32
no not at all and I'll tell you why we're not talking about a guy that had been married for 30 years right had 14
00:47:41
children with the same woman right he's been divorced twice mhm uh he's coming up on a retirement where he's going to
00:47:49
receive a decent retirement that he's earned he's worked a lot of years to earn it right I just don't and the
00:47:57
relationship with Patty obviously I don't know the ins and outs of it but they weren't married right they shared a
00:48:02
place together I I don't I can't get into the other woman Theory because I think there's it it would be very easy
00:48:09
for him to just end the relationship with Patty and and start this new relationship or bring this going on
00:48:17
relationship to light exactly and continue his life and retire and you know set up a life with the new woman
00:48:25
rather than this whole walking away unless unless that woman was his Handler you know um or how about this um this
00:48:34
this is another weird detail about this case so this other woman that he was seen with people recognized her as like
00:48:42
to a person like the the one of the people that saw him with her said yeah and it wasn't just some beautiful woman
00:48:49
it was this specific beautiful woman who's a journalist sltv I think she was involved in TV um like news up there too
00:48:57
okay so the police are like wow okay we got to find her and they went to find her she had also called off work that
00:49:04
day and she she they tracked her she was like and I think if I'm getting this right Upstate New York but she had like
00:49:12
traveled out of the city right and so they track her down and I think she was at like a wedding of a of a family
00:49:19
member or something she had a pretty good excuse but how weird is that that like the person that this that the
00:49:26
witnesses sure was with Rey also called off that day mhm just a bad coincidence for her or is there more to that you
00:49:36
know how thorough do you think that they tried to track him the authorities because I mean there's no crime
00:49:44
committed here but we're also talking about an active district attorney goes missing right they're going to try to
00:49:51
track this guy it's not like well that's another weird part of this too because the FBI didn't take over the case right
00:49:59
away um it should have been a state case it should have been state troopers it should have been um the Attorney General
00:50:07
office involved but everybody kind of stepped back and they're like okay let let the State College Police take this
00:50:15
over and we're talking about a department that had like three police officers they weren't prepared to look
00:50:21
for a missing district attorney but all the bigger agencies are like no let them
00:50:26
handle it is that because the the bigger agencies had access to the information um that Greek car was a spy and that we
00:50:34
knew he was disappearing and and you know let him go that's weird like they it should have been a bigger case but it
00:50:40
was left to the smallest Department that could have been involved well yeah it was left to it at first but then
00:50:45
everybody else then comes in but maybe they all come in to go see well we tried maybe Hush Hush yeah it looks like that
00:50:53
at some point but um um the FBI weren't really ever involved with the hunt for it as far as we can tell um the state
00:51:02
becomes involved in it eventually and they seem to step in and do their own investigation but at every turn the AG
00:51:09
seems to like kind of scuttle it you know or just weirdly silent about it or uh yeah it's just there's a lot of
00:51:19
weirdness surrounding why the the people put in charge were this this very small
00:51:24
police department so what do you think you got a hunch I have no hunch I just I personally I just
00:51:32
see a lot of reasons to not walk away that's what I keep coming back to I was unaware about the bank account thing
00:51:41
right because in and this is kind of a vague broad statement but when you look into this case you know they say well
00:51:48
they checked his bank accounts they checked his credit cards they checked his phone records and there was found no
00:51:55
clues right right and that's kind of all they leave you with so you assume when I
00:52:00
read that statement I assume well all is well you know uh they found no clues well no bank account that's a that's a
00:52:09
clue is a clue yeah I think what what you got to go back to exactly how they word it at newspaper accounts too
00:52:16
because they're very careful with the semantics of that but they're like um you know we yeah we looked into his
00:52:21
accounts but we found no uh you know something like no evidence there to suggest or whatever but um the fact yeah
00:52:29
exactly right the fact that there is no money in there right should tell you something that's a big thing yeah but
00:52:37
what does that point to because as because that can point to Suicide pretty easily here's this guy that exactly
00:52:44
didn't save anything you know worked a bunch of years but nothing to show for it his car is not even in his own name
00:52:52
and so he just I'm walking away this is a guy who's very meticulous in every other part of his life I would think he
00:52:59
would be very meticulous about his financial situation there yeah so is it just that that the fact that there's no
00:53:06
money I mean there has to be some transactions on those accounts he uh I think there were some I don't know how
00:53:14
much but we're talking about I mean I think it's like hund a couple hundreds of dollars in like a you know an account
00:53:21
that was left when he disappeared and no assets by the way everything else was in
00:53:26
everybody else's name like like his girlfriend's or his wife's name he never had assets so we have a successful da
00:53:34
who disappears and then when you look into his financial background if you didn't know his job or the the length of
00:53:43
his career you would assume you're looking at some 27-year-old dude that's living paycheck to paycheck right no not
00:53:50
even that cuz the the transaction history wasn't that in depth though right right so it's almost like you're
00:53:56
looking at a 15-year-old kid that has a savings account with his father's name on it and he only puts money in it when
00:54:03
he has a birthday or right or Christmas you know what I mean like right coming I
00:54:08
that's what I used to do I was a banker so no a lot of people on that level would have their own personal banker
00:54:15
would have a portfolio sure especially you know prosecutors you know cops yeah right like stocks and ponds
00:54:23
yeah and building up for retire that can go away pretty quickly and that could be a motive right cuz that would
00:54:31
be the other motive too is like well what if he did have all this money and he was divorced twice that's like it all
00:54:38
went to alimony it all went to the well I I would want to know how he was cashing his checks that would be a big
00:54:44
question for me how is he cashing his checks because let's just say there would be a motive you know a lot of
00:54:50
people would go well you need to put your money in the bank I was a banker for a long time and we had a bunch of
00:54:56
really rich um you know retired you know guys in their 70s and 80s that um they had really small accounts low activity
00:55:06
but they came into the bank every week and I I know they were just stockpiling their money at their house you know in a
00:55:13
safe or whatever cuz they didn't trust because of the depression and stuff like that they didn't trust the
00:55:20
banks now I'm not saying he didn't trust the banks because of the depression but
00:55:24
why would trust the banks or have any assets when your last possibly with your last two divorces and that would be
00:55:30
public record of what they got in the divorce sure so if he got you know taken to the cleaners twice then it's like
00:55:40
well I'm going to take all my money and put it on a in the mattress in a safe or
00:55:44
something but that would also become another reason for motive if one of his friends or somebody found out hey you
00:55:52
know this guy doesn't put any money in the bank right right and he doesn't have all these assets and he had took all his
00:55:58
money he just hides in the way Greek's got like 100,000 in cash sitting in his house yeah yeah that'd be a motive it
00:56:06
doesn't explain the computer though no well but the computer's not as weird as the searches yeah the Google searches of
00:56:14
how to you know destroy the hard drive the police wondered if he had a journal on the computer that he was a personal
00:56:22
Journal that he was keeping yeah or you know he's district attorney is that where he kept all the dirt he had on
00:56:29
everybody else and and somebody's getting real scared cuz he's up for retirement is he going to transfer that
00:56:35
dirt file over to the next prosecutor right um yeah again we're going around and
00:56:42
and oh what was that movie um Jad gerer yeah where he every time there was a new
00:56:49
person in his like whole mission was to get the dirt file oh sure and then give it to him may be like don't worry I got
00:56:56
my own copy you know what I mean so it's like right right maybe he had some of those dirt files and
00:57:02
somebody the weird thing too about the search is would they be able to know when those searches happen like was it
00:57:11
you know that day I don't know because if it's that day it could really be in the murderer's hands yeah they
00:57:21
don't go ahead I'm sorry I I think oh the the the you the search from home where he's like how to destroy a hard
00:57:27
drive right I think that was from the night before I think I think I've read that that that happened there okay so
00:57:32
those searches were actually going from his home computer not computer that he shared with his girlfriend right it's
00:57:39
neat to travel down there too down to they call it happy valley mhm it's beautiful I mean just a just a beautiful
00:57:46
drive and uh I always picture him you know jetting through the valley and you know looking for these antique stores
00:57:53
and you know maybe go it would be an excellent place to do the you know the Spy drops you know at a park you know
00:58:01
put it underneath the park bench and take off and your handler comes and I I I I hope he's in Slovenia just
00:58:10
you know eating some fish and whatever they do in Slovenia and he's listening to the show
00:58:16
right now going they're still talking about me if you could time travel you you brought it up so here we go if you
00:58:24
could time travel back to a a decade mhm do you have does one pop immediately in mind oh for sure I
00:58:33
definitely without a doubt go back to the 60s you know you pre pre HIV free love free
00:58:42
drugs uh that sounds like a very fun time how about you um oddly enough oddly enough I would
00:58:53
pick the 60s as well all right for different for different reasons oh yeah uh yet I mean that was the decade of the
00:59:01
assassinations you know sure yeah there's a lot of questions he wants to go back to shoot some
00:59:06
people it's uh similar to um your book The Man on Primrose Lane where he goes back and he's he's aware of this victim
00:59:16
and he believes if he can follow her around long enough that he can intercept the killer or her abductor and stop the
00:59:24
crime from happening it's like like the captain said here Quantum Leap yeah yeah
00:59:29
I'd love to sit there like as JFK is coming down the the with the motorcade see if you know anybody really was in
00:59:37
that grassy null or peeking over the the fence there was definitely somebody in the
00:59:43
grassy all you have to do is read it it's in the Warren report a lot of people don't know that in the Warren
00:59:48
report they claim that there was possible shots from the grassy null so the government hasn't like fully
00:59:54
dismissed this idea I really think what happened that day is the somebody contracted three different people and
01:00:01
they didn't tell the other ones yeah mhm you know so you had this and whoever was
01:00:06
going to get busted was going to get busted you know yeah uh question for you so now that we're on the time traveling
01:00:13
so we we said what decade right so but what case would you solve oh 100% Amy mahalic you know I'd be I'd be right at
01:00:23
the plaza you know at at the end of the day as she's coming in just to see who comes up to her and uh well then you
01:00:31
could stop it though yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah but but if you do that I mean now we're in the realm of fiction
01:00:38
so you've got James rener showing up in 1989 and this guy comes up to Amy mahalic and now I'm 100% sure I've got
01:00:44
the killer so I Pummel him to death or whatever and uh so then now I'm in prison
01:00:55
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