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today is not a day to celebrate but the arrest of Richard M Allen of Deli on two counts of murder is sure a
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major step in leading to the conclusion of this long-term and complex investigation first I'd like to speak
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directly to Anna Mike Becky Kelsey your extended [Music] families along with the entire Deli
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community that certainly has grown and now includes our nation and even many countries around the
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world I am proud to report to you that today actually last Friday was the day and an arrest has been
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[Music] made 5 weeks ago today we sat down and delivered an on the-fly update on the
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deli murder case and that was when Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter Carrol County Sheriff Tobe lesen
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be who is now the outgoing sheriff and Carol County prosecutor Nicholas mcleland had a scheduled press
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conference this was on Monday October 31st better known as Halloween and we did I wouldn't say an
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emergency podcast here Captain because we knew that we likely would be doing it but it was rather different than our
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normal setup as normally we are coming to you from our garage Studio but on that day on that Halloween we were
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coming to you from two very different locations I was in a hotel room in Cleveland Ohio and you were out of the
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country so we were watching and waiting for that press conference as it was announced earlier the previous week they
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went forward with the press conference and then we delivered on what it was that they had released at that time and
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the information that was stated during that press conference and then our questions and feelings on that
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information and of course that press conference was all built around what happened the Friday before which that
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was the arrest of Richard M Allen a deli resident charged with murder in this case and he was arrested officially
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arrested on Friday October 28th 2022 and one of the major things that was presented in that press conference
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was that they sealed the probable cause affidavit yes and then we were told that
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there would be a court hearing in November which was scheduled for November 22nd that would be an
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opportunity for anybody that had an opinion be it the people that will be eventually in court here on these
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charges to State their case for why this affidavit should either be released to the public or be withheld or portions of
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it redacted and then released and of course they had that court hearing and what we learned that day was that the
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judge was going to take some time to decide on how to proceed and then of course they did
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release this probable cause affidavit but released a redacted version of that just last week and we were able to get
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some more information about the case and about the investigation from that PCA yeah kudos to the judge for not making
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any rash decision you know what's the big deal take a couple days and make the correct decision for what you think is
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the correct decision for this case and this case has been completely crazy because from drum Street this this case
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became its own you know we have a moner that's responsible for the the murder of
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two innocent little girls but this case became a monster in its own online with all the speculation and people piling on
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throughout the years and it's it's not stopped it's not stopped with the arrest that took place in late October and it's
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not stopped with the information that is coming out so one thing that was interesting to me Captain was there was
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a lot of speculation about the sealing of this document in the first place and I saw a lot of
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people coming out of the woodwork on Twitter on the internet on Reddit and such and criticizing the investigators
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and and using this sealed document to back up their criticism of those investigators and I want to be clear
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here I don't do a lot of pushing back on social media but I had to jump in when I
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saw this because I felt like that it was out of turn a little bit because really
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truly what we have here is the prosecutor is the one that sealed this document that requested that it be
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sealed and remain sealed right and the police or law enforcement the Indiana State Police in fact Doug Carter stating
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on the record before they release this document that he was fine and comfortable with the document being
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released saying that he believed that the probable cause affidavit spoke for itself now the criticism being that well
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law enforcement has really botched this investigation and they wanted it sealed because once it's released it will be
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clear to everybody how they kind of bungled the whole investigation well again it was the prosecutor that was
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asking that this document remain to be sealed not law enforcement it was the defense and the media that was
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requesting that it be release to the public the prosecutor was simply saying in this
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hearing two reasons for keeping this document sealed would be one and this is this is what kind of shook me when the
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prosecutor stated that there is reason to believe that there are other actors involved I think that was probably the
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most shocking thing to come out of this hearing the other reason being that there are witnesses that that are named
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in this PCA I agree with the prosecutor their safety should be a concern and keeping these Witnesses safe is a really
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good thing not just in this case it's a good thing for everyone for all of society and all cases past present and
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future agreed and if prosecution truly believes that there wasn't another actor or actors involved in this case then
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obviously you would want to protect these I Witnesses because now this would be evidence to them to murderers that
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these people saw something and these are people that maybe you would want to go after so obviously we should be
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protecting the rights and the identity of these eyewitnesses I feel a little weird about the wording that was used
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the chosen words that were delivered that says there is reason to believe that there are other actors involved I
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think we should explore that just a little bit before we move on to the affidavit itself what could that mean
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obviously it could mean that there could be some type of person that assisted in
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some form or fashion in the murders or assisted to try to cover them up I think that this is a very blanketed statement
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and at least I'm hoping that that's the situation because while reviewing everything that's come out and again
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this is so weird that we we don't know we still there's a lot of things we still do not know in this case but
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reviewing what has been released it sounds more to me that I would put the probability high on on the
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fact that maybe he Richard Allen if he is in fact guilty and again he's innocent until proven guilty in the
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court of law but if he is in fact guilty of this double homicide maybe he told someone or somebody covered for him in
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some way in previous state stats to police I I feel like this could be people shouldn't run too wild with this
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statement because I think it could be a very blanketed statement and it could be
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that somebody has some type of involvement on a much smaller scale yeah or there's some reason that maybe
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Richard would have known that the girls were out there on the trail that day right because while we have this arrest
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going on everything that was focused on on this case with the clein their names have not been
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mentioned since Richard Allen came into the fold but simply put the probable cause affidavit is basically a statement
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that they're going to be giving to a judge to make so they can make an arrest in the case right and that's the thing
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when when this document is released to the public we need to keep in mind that this is not a document that is saying
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here are all the reasons why Richard Allen is guilty that's not what they're saying they're giving just enough
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information here is some information that we find to be credible and we believe that this credible information
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is pointing a finger at Richard Allen judge would you sign off on this and please let us go and arrest him and we
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will continue to build the case after that but we need to get him off the streets because if he is the person that
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committed these murders then he's a very very dangerous man yeah because I think
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the first at first sight of this PCA it seems like the evidence against Richard Allen is pretty weak but then
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once you learn that they don't have to put all the evidence in the PCA and they just really need to put enough to make
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sure that they can make the arrest then you go well really this PCA doesn't matter all that much because there could
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be a mountain of evidence against them and now we have to rewind L too because there's been a debate and there's going
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to continue to be a debate whether or not there's DNA in this case I know that Becky the grandmother of one of the
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victims has come forward and says law enforcement did make the statement that there was DNA in this case well you
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arrest Richard Allen on murder charges those are felonies therefore you can get his DNA so if they do have DNA in this
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case then they can test Richards Allen's DNA because now he's charged with a felony yes that is I I I want to kind of
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limp in on that because I don't know the exact laws uh in Indiana and they do vary by state one thing that I always
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found interesting in this case was that at the time of the murders that law had not been passed where we will collect
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your DNA I I don't know if it's just if you've been arrested for a a felony or if it's been convicted of a
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felony I believe that it is arrested of a felony charge in in Indiana but again I don't have that information right in
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front of me at the moment well the defense attorney that I talked to stated that they would have collected his DNA
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because he was charged with a felony so I'm going to go with her expert opinion is that an Indiana
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attorney yeah okay so so the interesting thing here is this law was passed after
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Libby and Abby were killed and I believe that this the law being passed is directly related to the crime and the
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investigation of the deli murders case I've always kind of felt that way and as far as DNA goes it's interesting that
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you bring that up because DNA is not mentioned in this probable cause affidavit which there's a couple of
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things that are that are very interesting to me in this affidavit obviously let's go through some of the
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highlights quickly and I I'll give like a very quick summary of the document itself because the document for those
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that have not seen it it's eight pages long and it's about seven pages of information as to why a judge should
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sign off on the arrest of Richard M Allen now those highlights are the first page is really just a very good detailed
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description of where the crime took place and the surrounding area so it's describing the roads and the trails and
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the bridge and it's really laying out everything as it were on that day and then it's giving the timing of some
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different sightings and witness statements throughout that the course of that February 14th
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2017 the highlights would be that there was a bullet found at the crime scene a live
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round AN unspent round with extraction markings on it and that bullet they later determined
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belong to or came from a gun that is owned by Richard Allen and we also learned that the video that was taken by
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Libby that day on the bridge very quickly after Bridge guy makes his way across the bridge and
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approaches the girls we now know that one of the girls said gun to the other so they spotted
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the gun in Bridge guy's possession as he was getting closer to them and that's something that we had speculated on in
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the past that there must have been some way we know that bridg guy was directing
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the girls to where he wanted to take them right and now we know that a gun was used to Corral them and control them
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and control the situation what is not mentioned in the PCA is the manner of death how the girls were killed so some
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people have speculated well we now know that a gun was used in the crime so maybe they were
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shot and there's again we still don't know that information based off of what's come
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out I think you could argue it either way personally my feelings have always been that they probably weren't shot
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because of all the rumors that ever came out in this case and there was a lot of them but at
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no point do we ever have anybody saying that they were at the trails that day which we know a bunch of people were and
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nobody ever saying that they heard a gunshot or gunshots that day well just to rewind a little bit when law
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enforcement for the last 5 to six years have said look we we can't release we can't talk about certain pieces of
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evidence and one of those pieces now we know that the girl's State gun well now that you know that there is a gun
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involved somehow in some way in this crime that becomes important and then this bullet
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shell this unspent bullet that's found between the girls at the murder scene becomes a pretty big piece of evidence
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and obviously something that they didn't feel that they could share with the public because it could hinder the
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investigation yeah and that's what always been one bit of criticism amongst others that law enforcement have had to
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deal with in this case many people saying well how much more of a video how much more of audio do they have why
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won't they release that and people would speculated maybe it was because the the
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girls were killed during the course of the video or the audio what we've always been told and
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what we've always said here in the garage is the information that we were getting was always that there was
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nothing on any of the additional audio or video that's not been released to the public that would help to identify the
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Killer maybe the word gun may have helped to identify the killer but again I think that
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was much better to hold that withhold that information from the public then we have the the bullet the the unspent
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bullet that is found at the crime scene where the girls were killed and where their bodies were discovered it just
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reminds me of some of the statements that law enforcement has stated throughout the course of this
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investigation and all of them are ringing true now you know one statement that to Blen said and this is when his
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office was coming under criticism for the investigation dragging on for so long you know you got video you got the
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guy on video you got his voice on video and on audio and yet there's no arrest what's the problem and amongst other
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questions that he was Fielding one of the answers he gave to a question that was asked of him on in one particular
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interview was that our investigators will will know it when we find it that that there was we will know we have the
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right guy when we find him and that statement sounds kind of vague and dumb but really that statement always meant
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to me that there would be something that would be able to tell them yes you got the right guy once you find the guy yes
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you got the right guy that would it would confirm that for the investigators and now I believe that all along he may
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have been talking about this bullet evidence well it's very possible and so we got the girl
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on video stating that there's a gun so we know there's a gun then we see this like we said unspent Bullet at the crime
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scene so what they're able to do is they're going to search Richard Allen's property he has multiple guns but one of
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his guns is a 40 caliber gun and that matches this bullet now how do they match this bullet now early on when they
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would do this ballistic test on guns it was the hammer hitting the head of the bullet and that was the major signature
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but what they also realize is if you shoot the gun that the barrel has signature marks as well well when you
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don't shoot the gun called rifling right if you don't shoot the gun and you just extract the bullet shoot
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the bullet yeah then there's a marking as well so now if you have a situation that a bullet is fired you have the
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marking on the the head you have the barrel markings and you have the extraction markings the problem here for
00:21:09
law enforcement is going to be that they only have extraction markings and this science uh and I think the defense
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attorney stated it pretty well this is not this is not an exact science that this these signat
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it's really based on who is testing the information so it's not a zct fingerprint science where it's like oh
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well we have his fingerprint on the bullet no we have markings from the gun onto the bullet that are very similar
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once they go to court prosecution's going to have their experts to argue their points stating why it does match
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and then the defense will find EXP experts that say it doesn't match so it's very it's a little bit of a
00:22:04
confusing situation especially for those that are not very familiar with guns but
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as I understand it this is how I am captain I'm one of these guys that I I own firearms I do not know much
00:22:18
about guns in general I know not very much about the uh I don't know a whole lot about the
00:22:25
guns that I own so I'm not a gun expert just because I own them but it's a lot like other things that I own inside my
00:22:33
home I I have TVs I'm not a TV expert uh we all know that I went to school for computer so well you have a great guitar
00:22:41
collection and I have a great guitar collection and I can I can probably fumble my way through about three songs
00:22:48
and I've owned these guitars for way too long to not know more songs than that so
00:22:52
but the the very general thought here is that if you if you rack the gun that it
00:23:00
will extract the bullet and then it leaves marks before to to push the bullet out
00:23:08
of the gun what probably happened in this scenario is that he either racked the gun or in the during the commission
00:23:18
of some kind of fight or scuffle the gun got racked and the the bullet was extracted there's a
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chance that he may not have known that that bullet came out of his gun that day it wouldn't be that hard to find the
00:23:34
bullet so this is a mistake but in cases like this you need to have the murderer
00:23:41
make mistakes so this was a mistake now I don't want to go down a crazy conspiracy Rabbit Hole Theory but
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there's been a lot of talk early on in the investigation that maybe they're not releasing certain audio clips because
00:23:56
maybe this person post as law enforcement and I keep seeing that being brought up online one of the reasons
00:24:03
that's being brought back up online is because a 40 caliber is probably the most popular caliber that's carried by
00:24:12
law enforcement now I ask multiple gun experts as I am not one of them how common is a 40
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caliber gun and they'd say well it's probably one of the most popular handhelds but if you look at popularity of bullets
00:24:32
it's not even in the top five you normally have a 35 a 9 mm uh 22 uh a 12 gauge shotgun so it's not of the most
00:24:44
popular ammos out there types of os out there but it is one of the most popular handhelds but where conspiracy theorists
00:24:54
will go wild on this is that the 40 caliber is probably the most popular when it comes to law enforcement that
00:25:02
may be I'm going to have to disagree there I I actually think that a 40 caliber handgun would
00:25:07
be an uncommon police used weapon but uh it but again all that stuff varies from
00:25:16
jurisdiction to jurisdiction from agency to agency they all have their own protocols they all have their own
00:25:22
standards that they've created throughout the years my general understand in of law enforcement and the
00:25:30
uh the guns that they typically carry the 9mm is a very common service revolver or sorry service weapon and you
00:25:41
might see 40 45 with being carried by detectives a 40 caliber gun so 40 caliber handgun I while I wouldn't say that it's
00:25:54
uncommon I would also 100% agree with you about the bullet because the bullet is a little a 40 caliber bullet is a
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little more Uncommon just for the fact that they are more expensive ammunition and so people tend to buy
00:26:12
guns that that have cheaper um ammunition and in the 40 caliber is more expensive well I should have stated that
00:26:20
because I'm not an expert on this I I did want to reach out to people so I was able to talk to Two Gun experts that
00:26:29
also uh train and do training with law enforcement as well and both of them said that the 40 caliber is one one of
00:26:39
the most popular but as far as law enforcement goes but not as popular in the normal Public's view the other
00:26:47
highlight here is that the probable cause affidavit discusses a vehicle and this again remember we go back in time
00:26:55
and we remember Doug Carter telling the public hey we are looking for the owner of a vehicle that was parked at the old
00:27:01
CPS building this vehicle is mentioned during the affidavit and they're also linking Richard Allen to this vehicle
00:27:09
that they are discussing in the affidavit as being parked his vehicle being parked at the CPS
00:27:16
building couple of things though here that that I'm seeing online and it's kind of regurgitated time and time again
00:27:23
that I want to address that they oh my God this guy he he says he was at the the trails that day and he looks exactly
00:27:30
like Bridge guy he's wearing the same clothing as Bridge guy I get it but I also want to point out that we've said
00:27:38
that not you and I in particular but we the public as a whole have said that seven or eight times about other
00:27:46
individuals leading up to this arrest well one of the things that we stated and it's not like that were're some uh
00:27:55
Geniuses by any means but what we've seen by covering hundreds and hundreds of cases that a lot of times when there
00:28:04
is a eyewitness that even comes forward and we know Richard Allen came forward to law enforcement and says look I was
00:28:11
there I was there between these times this is a detailed um description of what I was
00:28:18
wearing now to me if I'm law enforcement and I see okay here's a guy that matches
00:28:25
somewhat the build he's telling us he was there he describes bridg guy's clothing to a
00:28:33
te I'm going to be interviewing that guy early and often but the problem here and
00:28:40
what we stated a long time ago and we've covered this case multiple episodes so it couldn't tell you what number of
00:28:47
episode it was that we stated this but we've stated time and time again in murder cases you have to look at the
00:28:55
eyewitnesses because we've seen it over and over where the eyewitness gets involved lets law enforcement know that
00:29:03
they were there just in case somebody saw them and now they become an eyewitness and not a person of
00:29:09
interest the problem and I will state it again like we stated before the problem
00:29:16
I think with this case was early on we had a large number of agencies involved multiple agencies with multiple agents
00:29:26
doing these interviews and I think that hindered the case maybe not so much for the search of the girls but it hindered
00:29:33
the case in interviewing Witnesses well and that in itself I mean we know of at least four agencies that were directly
00:29:41
involved since day one and we know that officers and agents throughout the state
00:29:48
of Indiana were involved since early on in this case and you're absolutely right
00:29:53
Captain you you do have to employ all of the resources that you have and in some
00:29:59
cases your resources are that you have an army of people and so you yes you do need to use them especially with a case
00:30:06
of this magnitude and a case that has this many tips coming in and possible Witnesses people Possible having been to
00:30:13
the trails that day the day before the day after people 300 people involved in the search for these girls so you have a
00:30:20
lot of people to question an interview you have a lot going on but yes you can you're exactly right and spot on in your
00:30:28
thoughts it can cause a a bit of Chaos in your investigation and it can cause easily cause
00:30:35
disorganization in your investigation well and instead of throwing Doug Carter and the ISP and everybody under the bus
00:30:44
what we have to remember and what they've said multiple times which was so confusing at the time to me but it's so
00:30:51
clear now is he said that once we have this individual and once we're able to look at this individual in the face
00:30:58
we're going to have to start the investigation all over again and I think he was making those statements cuz they
00:31:05
knew probably after the first year we had too many cooks in the kitchen and we need to reorganize the information that
00:31:14
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head over and shop [Music] today he is innocent he has told us that uh very emotionally he has thanked us
00:34:46
for our help uh and we are anxious uh for the public to read this we're anxious for this thing to get going and
00:34:54
um uh you know we'll see and when you guys read the PCA presuming that the judge grants our motion you know you
00:35:00
will have to question is this what happens after 5 years of an investigation is this what it is we
00:35:06
don't have any other evidence we don't have any Discovery that's all we have and we are not impressed the two people
00:35:12
being involved uh the the conjecture from the prosecutor today was new information for us I've been on this
00:35:19
case folks for five what six days so I don't know a whole lot we have not seen the evidence and I uh you
00:35:29
know another person involved I mean that's that's new news so that's not reflected in the PCA uh not the PCA that
00:35:36
I read somebody might read something a line about you know you're going to see maybe about a vehicle or about a person
00:35:44
or about a time frame and it might ring a bell uh something that they hadn't thought of before and when they read
00:35:51
that then you know they can contact us as as lawyers we're getting lots of information from lots of people across
00:36:00
the country especially locally we don't know what is hoaxes we don't know what's
00:36:04
true we don't know if it's a podcaster you know uh opportunity to get in the Limelight we don't know what's real but
00:36:11
we're going to we're going to uh look at every uh single uh person that contacts
00:36:17
us we're going to contact them everybody and we're going to figure out if what they know is helpful what if anything
00:36:24
has your client Richard Allen said this has impacted him P or his family obviously uh this has impacted Richard
00:36:31
and his family tremendously I mean his his wife is uh just a wonderful person and she loves her husband they've been
00:36:38
married for over 30 years they were basically High School sweethearts uh they love each other and
00:36:45
she fully supports him but it is devastating uh she's scared she doesn't want to leave her house she did leave
00:36:52
her house she uh thankfully uh is in a little bit better place than she was uh a month ago but it's this is all new to
00:37:00
them can you say anything about why uh investigators are focused on your client you guys will read the probable
00:37:08
cause affidavit and you may wonder why they are focused on our client we haven't ask you the fundamental question
00:37:13
and that is your client's the wrong guy our client's the wrong [Music] guy all right we are
00:37:28
back to the windows to the walls we got our computer expert we got our beats expert diving and dissecting crimes
00:37:39
cheers to everybody cheers to you Captain cheers to all the good people out there joining us again one more time
00:37:45
on this case and look expert at what I don't know I'm I'm a garage expert I'll give you that and I think the captain
00:37:53
that the captain is a garage expert as well well I'll vouch for him on that front but the what is not in the
00:38:01
affidavit is interesting just as much as what is in the affidavit so you're exactly right
00:38:07
there's not anything with DNA in here we got to keep in mind too this is simply to get Richard M Allen in handcuffs
00:38:15
arrest him detain him hold him until there can be an actual trial so whatever's not in here does not mean
00:38:22
that that's not part of the investigation it's just what they this is the information that they chose
00:38:29
to include to give to the judge to sign off on that arrest now I was able to speak with a retired detective about
00:38:39
this case and one of the things he said and he kept reminding me over and over there can be a mountain of evidence that
00:38:46
they don't have to put in the PCA now what he stated was well you have a Smoking Gun here because you have a
00:38:55
bullet that came from his gun they did test they believe it came from Richard Allen's Gun at the crime scene between
00:39:03
the two victims and that should be enough because and and not just because it was there but when they asked him
00:39:10
about it there was no reasonable explanation his explanation was simply I don't know how that got there so that
00:39:21
would be enough for them to keep him to trial and like you said that is the point of the piece and I could be
00:39:27
absolutely wrong on all of this information right here and I want to point out why it would not be in this
00:39:35
document even if it were to be true so DNA they could have it uh maybe they have it today but didn't have it when
00:39:43
they were requesting the arrest as the captain pointed out that's a possibility we also don't know what tests have been
00:39:50
conducted since the arrest of this man now we know that there was a search of his property in his home leading up to
00:40:00
his arrest and we'll get into that that's in the PCA so we don't know if they've come into DNA evidence since
00:40:08
then the other thing with how the victims were killed i' I don't believe that they were
00:40:16
shot we do know that a gun was used in the course of these crimes that were committed that day and the homicides but
00:40:25
the thing is I feel like if you have a bullet that is found near your murder victim and you're using
00:40:35
that to sign off on his arrest what they're not saying in the PCA is that we recovered a bullet from one of the
00:40:43
victims or both victims that matches a bullet that would have come from Allen's Gun right and we've looked at this case
00:40:51
for since the beginning and never once have we heard any anything of a eyewitness being an ear witness saying
00:40:59
that they heard gunshots and then there's been some question too about the the search of Richard Allen's home how
00:41:07
did that come about there's some debate out there did he consent was a search requested and he
00:41:14
consented to the search or did they actually get a search warrant I'm of the belief that they got
00:41:21
a search warrant and we'll get into that here in a minute but if if that is the case then that means there's another
00:41:28
document out there that likely has a good deal of information in it that nobody has seen yet well and that's the
00:41:35
reason why I'm going to say that he possibly consented to this because that information I believe
00:41:44
prosecution would have to ask for that information to be sealed as well and since there is no report on that on the
00:41:52
news I'm I'm just guessing that he consented I mean it states also that his wife is saying hey those those clothes
00:41:58
that he wore the day of the murders we have them we own them we we never threw them away so they have those to test as
00:42:07
well and so not only there's no DNA evidence reported in the PCA but hair samples cloth fibers there's so many
00:42:17
other things fingerprints that they could have but they don't have to state in the PCA yeah so let's get into the
00:42:25
PCA rather than just citing some of the highlights I want to give some direct information from that document so I'm
00:42:32
going to jump ahead to page two and on page two the this information is interesting it says the video recovered
00:42:39
from victim 2's phone so they referring to our victims as victim one and two throughout this document not by name and
00:42:48
it says the video recovered from victim 2's phone shows victim one walking Southeast on the moanin High Bridge
00:42:54
while a male subject wearing a dark jacket and jeans Walks Behind her as the male subject approaches victim one and
00:43:02
two one of the victims mentions gun we had talked about that earlier near the end of the video a male is seen and
00:43:09
heard telling the girls guys down the hill the girls then begin to proceed down the hill and the video ends a still
00:43:18
photograph taken from the video and the guys down the hill audio was released to
00:43:24
the public to assist investigators and identifying the male what's interesting here to me Captain is we keep having
00:43:32
people online saying he looks exactly like bridg guy looks exactly like the sketch and again I with the reminder
00:43:40
that we've said that about seven or eight other individuals one thing that's really interesting to me is that I don't
00:43:48
when when do we hear this guy's voice because the the audio guys down the hill was such a big part of the public plea
00:43:56
for information from law enforcement in this case and I'm I'm not seeing anybody
00:44:02
or reviewing anything where people were are doing voice comparisons between Richard Allen and the recorded audio the
00:44:09
lawyer that I was able to talk to was stating that as well is this could be something that they could bring in an
00:44:16
expert to say look it matches again this is not an exact science but to have expert come in and say we believe that
00:44:23
Richard Allen's voice is the voice that you hear on the recording I also think too we have video evidence which you can
00:44:32
then turn into still frames I would assume with pretty lowlevel technology you can do some measurements of the
00:44:41
bridge measurements of the planks and get a better idea of how tall this individual is because Richard Allen is
00:44:49
very short and I think if they did that those tests and they were able to determine that bridge guy was over 6
00:44:58
foot tall which I don't think he was but let's just say that they could determine
00:45:03
that then obviously that would rule out Richard Allen so that's something also that they could be doing this is what
00:45:10
the lawyer told me this is another uh little bit of technology that they could be doing to strengthen their
00:45:18
case but again they don't have to put that in the PCA yes and at one time they did give us
00:45:24
a vague opinion on the height of bridg Guy and while Richard Allen is on the shorter side he does fit in the range
00:45:36
that they were suggesting to the public as what they believe the height could be
00:45:41
of of the individual seen on the bridge that day the document on page two goes on to say the victim one and victim 2's
00:45:49
deaths were ruled a homicide clothes were found in Deer Creek belonging to the victims south of where their bodies
00:45:56
were located there was also a 40 caliber unspent round less than 2 feet away from
00:46:02
victim 2's body found between victim 1 and victim 2's bodies the round was unspent and had extraction marks on it
00:46:11
I'll jump ahead here to page three captain and it says blank advised when she was leaving she noted a vehicle was
00:46:19
parked in an odd manner at the old child protective services building she said it
00:46:24
was not odd for vehic to be parked there but she noticed it was odd because of the manner it was parked backed in near
00:46:32
the building so a lot of people are stating that this would be a one way for an individual to get close to the trails
00:46:39
to the bridge that day not conceal their vehicle so that no one would see it but
00:46:45
back it in so that you could at least conceal your license plate from any passer by yeah and what's also not in
00:46:52
the PCA is there could be other eyewitnesses that saw an individual get into a vehicle they might have the
00:47:01
vehicle of the suspect down to one making model and so even though you have Richard Allen that says I was there that
00:47:11
day we don't know if he lied to law enforcement about which vehicle of his he drove because they own several
00:47:19
Vehicles so that would be pretty damning evidence but again not in the PCA yeah and so in regards to the vehicle what we
00:47:26
have here is we have three different eyewitnesses that give varying descriptions of what
00:47:34
vehicle they believe that they saw there that day now none of them are saying this is the make and model and year and
00:47:39
color of a vehicle that I saw there they're they're giving a quick description right could you tell me a
00:47:46
vehicle that you thought that it looked like and some people could just get the name wrong on on these here but as the
00:47:53
captain points out Richard Allen did own him him and his wife owned more than one
00:47:59
vehicle and that reminds me to Circle back to something we discussed just a minute ago the search warrant or consent
00:48:05
to search his home the other thing it does not have to be Richard Allen that gave consent to search his home it could
00:48:11
have been his wife right it could have been his wife that gave consent uh but we'll Circle back to that here in a
00:48:17
minute again so the vehicles were described as a PT Cruiser another witness described it as a smart car and
00:48:28
I think that the third I'm looking for it here I don't I can't find it right in front of me but I think that the third
00:48:33
witness may have described a small SUV does that sound correct regardless let's skip the third one but a PT Cruiser and
00:48:41
a smart car are the descriptions that I have right in front of me in my notes Here It states here in the document that
00:48:50
investigators discovered Richard Allen owned two vehicles in 2017 at that time he owned a 2016 black
00:48:58
Ford Focus and a 2006 gray Ford 500 investigators observed a vehicle that resembled Allen's 2016 Ford Focus
00:49:09
on the hoer Harve store I can't be pronouncing that right but uh the they have surveillance video from a store and
00:49:19
they have a vehicle that they believe resembles Richard Allen's 2016 Ford Focus seen traveling westbound on
00:49:29
cr300 North or County Road 300 North at 1:27 p.m. on the day that the girls were
00:49:37
killed so what's interesting to me here is I would not in all of my life describe a Ford Focus or a Ford 500 as a
00:49:49
PT Cruiser to me a PT Cruiser is a rather distinct looking vehicle but you know we all have our opinion on these
00:49:56
things I would I could see someone describing a Ford Focus as a smart car you know when smart cars first came out
00:50:04
a lot of them were were on the smaller side and a Ford Focus is certainly a smaller more compact vehicle then the
00:50:11
document goes on to State a bunch of the different eyewitnesses of having seen people going coming and going from the
00:50:18
area around the time of the murders we have as the captain points out Richard Allen who's saying yes I was there that
00:50:24
day in fact he says that he believes that he was there on the trails from about 1:30 to 3:30 that day I don't know
00:50:32
that we need to get into the rumors of how he got picked up what do you think Captain because
00:50:38
there were about three or four different rumors coming out on how they went from
00:50:43
this guy as a potential eyewitness he was just somebody that happened to be there on the trail that day to okay this
00:50:48
is now our murder sus well it could be as simply as them going back and reorganizing the information that they
00:50:55
had from 2017 there's been all these statements made that the FBI made a clerical error
00:51:02
and that's why they never reinvestigated Richard but I think it like we said I think it goes back to a lot of too many
00:51:12
cooks in the kitchen well and the thing here you know the the first rumor was that his arrest was directly related to
00:51:21
the dive search that Kagan Klein may have provided information to law enforcement and then
00:51:30
they had the dive search and whatever was found or information learned during the course of that search is what put
00:51:36
them hot on the trail of Richard Allen that was a rumor the other rumor was that he had some kind of conflict
00:51:41
altercation with a neighbor that led to an arrest and him being forced to submit
00:51:48
DNA and that DNA came back with a hit in the murders I'm I lean to what you just said
00:51:55
Captain it looks to me like there's a very good chance that this is just putting fresh eyes new eyes maybe even
00:52:01
better eyes if you will on the information that was collected back in 2017 and reviewing that information and
00:52:10
then somebody putting a red flag on this and going wait a second there could be something here and let's not forget it's
00:52:18
spelled out in this PCA a little bit right we have this guy who says I was there yes I was there and what's
00:52:26
completely bizarre to me is in his statements he's saying Not only was I there but I also dressed like Bridge guy
00:52:32
and we've we've made the argument a hundred times on this show that in Indiana even here in Ohio there's a lot
00:52:39
of men in in their 30s and 40s that wear clothing very similar to this this is not uncommon very distinctive clothing
00:52:47
this is very common clothing but we have Richard Allen saying yes I was there from 1:30 to 3:30 and two let's double
00:52:55
down on the idea that I was wearing clothing that day that looked like Bridge guy I might have even some of
00:53:01
your witness statements of having seen potential Bridge guy might have been people just seeing me but what is what
00:53:08
stands out and why I think that it's simply somebody going back with new fresh better eyes and an inquisitive
00:53:17
mind leading them to Richard Allen is that if all these eyewitness statements are true
00:53:26
and it was Richard Allen that they spotted there that day at 130ish up to 2:00 and then again around
00:53:35
3:30ish when he says that he's he believes that he left the day for the day somebody's going okay well he says
00:53:44
he was there great maybe he's an honest dude he was there and he has nothing to hide and he's just trying to help us
00:53:50
great okay we got eyewitnesses that if if the person they saw was rich Allen then they're backing up his statements
00:53:57
he likely arrived around 1:30 and likely left around 3:30 but it's the inquisitive mind that goes okay well why
00:54:04
are there no eyewitnesses of Richard Allen during during the middle of that time after 2:13 p.m. and that's when
00:54:14
somebody says oh well that's because he may have been in the woods with the girls killing them at the time that
00:54:23
nobody seen him I'm normally not the smartest guy in the room heck I'm not even the second smartest guy in this
00:54:28
room but if I'm law enforcement every eyewitness is a person of interest until I can prove otherwise and maybe that
00:54:37
would be the reason that they went back and was looking into eyewitnesses and looking at them through the lens of
00:54:46
being a person of interest that led to him but but I but I also think that something had to happen because because
00:54:55
this moved very quickly and I also don't think hold hold that thought I do think
00:55:03
there's more evidence I don't know if they have a mountain of evidence against him yet but that doesn't mean that they
00:55:10
won't by the time the trial is set and the document goes on to State a narrative that was created by
00:55:19
Richard M Allen in 2017 this is from when he was interviewed in 20 17 and some of the highlights of that
00:55:29
narrative we've already covered but I want to hit on a few things before we move past this he's saying that he he
00:55:36
parked his vehicle near some he says the Farm Bureau building and now police are
00:55:43
saying well we think that either he doesn't know the names of the buildings or he purposely gave us an
00:55:52
incorrect title uh for the bill building to to throw us off the trail now they're
00:55:57
saying you know he he very likely was the person that parked at the old at the old uh CPS building and that he you know
00:56:06
is describing the building as a Farm Bureau building well think about this let's say we have a list we're law
00:56:13
enforcement we have a list of eyewitnesses now we start getting surveillance from different businesses
00:56:20
in the area and maybe that maybe it's as simple as he says was driving this vehicle when we know he was driving this
00:56:27
other vehicle maybe it's he says that I parked at this building and now we know for a fact that he parked at this other
00:56:34
building once law enforcement sees that an eyewitness lied you have to make them a person of
00:56:42
interest and that could be as simple as it is go back through his statements and
00:56:48
now with this evidence we can prove that this one statement is a lie and that could be enough to go okay
00:56:55
my sniffer test is going off here we need to reexamine Richard Allen yes and I believe I may have said
00:57:03
February 14th earlier I probably should have said February 13th instead but going on here some more information
00:57:12
blank advised that the male subject was wearing a blue colored jacket and blue jeans and was muddy and bloody she
00:57:19
further stated that it appeared that he had gotten into a fight okay so this is one of the witnesses that likely saw
00:57:25
Bridge guy leaving the area that day and we have a couple of different eyewitnesses that may have seen Bridge
00:57:33
guy leaving the area that day they all give a little bit of a varying description of who or what they saw but
00:57:40
this one's really interesting because this one States a blue colored jacket blue jeans the person I saw was muddy
00:57:49
and bloody yeah and had appeared to have gotten into a fight so then we fast forward in the document to October 13th
00:57:58
2022 Richard Allen was interviewed Again by investigators and it also states that
00:58:03
Richard Allen's wife Kathy Allen also spoke to investigators and she confirmed during that discussion that Richard did
00:58:12
have guns and knives at the residence and she also stated that Richard still owns a blue car heart jacket so now when
00:58:19
you file and this is why I believe that there was probably a search warrant and I would interested to review that
00:58:26
document if it ever comes out to the public because the very next line in the PCA States on October 13 2022
00:58:35
investigators executed a search warrant of Richard Allen's residence and then it
00:58:40
gives his address among other items officers located jackets boots knives and Firearms including the Sig Sawyer
00:58:48
model P226 40 caliber pistol that is believed to have extracted the live round that was found
00:58:57
between the two victims bodies so what we have here Captain is if there was in fact a search warrant as this PCA
00:59:07
indicates that there was now we have a situation where you have law enforcement going before a judge and they're not
00:59:15
asking for an arrest of Richard Allen at that time that arrest would follow but what they're asking for is we need to
00:59:22
search this guy's property and here's what we're looking for and you you know that that document probably States we're
00:59:31
looking for this blue jacket who his wife says still exist and we're looking for the gun that extracted that bullet
00:59:40
that we found between the victims here we are they likely found both of those items at his home we know that they
00:59:47
found the gun because the gun with the ballistics test the tool markings test is what I believe believe 100% sealed
00:59:56
the arrest of Richard Allen I agree I don't think we'll have enough time today to dive into this but Richard Allen's
01:00:04
attorneys did make statements on the PCA and one of the things that they were trying to say to point to his innocence
01:00:12
is well he he hasn't changed his job he hasn't changed his where he lives he he he didn't even get rid of these weapons
01:00:19
he didn't he didn't uh throw away these clothes that that's not an argument on whether somebody's innocent or
01:00:27
guilty that's just a fact that he just didn't do those things and there's plenty of killers that don't throw away
01:00:36
the clothes they were wearing when they committed a murder or throw away the weapon that he used when they committed
01:00:42
a murder so to me that was such a nothing Burger where it's like okay well congratulations that's not an argument
01:00:49
right exactly the the statement that he didn't get rid of any of these things does
01:00:55
not does not exclude him from being the killer right criminals as you pointed out make mistakes criminals do dumb
01:01:04
things and thank I'm thankful that they do dumb things and this may just be a big example of Richard Allen being
01:01:14
a dumbass and he didn't get rid of very incriminating evidence for whatever reason could be that that guns guns are
01:01:23
expensive maybe he's like they're not they're never going to catch me they I've spoke to police five years
01:01:29
ago they don't know they're you know their ass from a hole in the ground uh they don't know what's going on I have
01:01:37
no reason to worry about losing these items or wanting to get rid of these items because they're expensive and I
01:01:44
don't want to have to replace them or you know we talk about Killers keeping souvenirs it's not very hard to believe
01:01:54
that maybe his murder weapon or a weapon that was used during the commission of these crimes is some type of souvenir
01:02:01
prided souvenir of his well on top of that why would you get rid of a gun if you didn't know a bullet came out of
01:02:10
that gun at the crime scene and because law enforcement Never released that just
01:02:16
think if law enforcement would have released that early on well we found a bullet that wasn't shot at the crime
01:02:23
scene then if Richard Allen is the killer then he would obv obviously want to go well I
01:02:29
need to get rid of that gun now yeah so that's that's interesting and I'm glad that you explored it in that manner
01:02:35
because there's a couple things here one the portion of the video where the one of the girls says gun is never released
01:02:44
to the public he very likely did not know when the recording started he was not it doesn't the way that it's
01:02:51
described makes it sound like he's not directly in front of the girls when one of them says gun maybe he never heard
01:02:57
one of them say that he doesn't know when the recording started he may not know if if the gun was
01:03:04
racked and that bullet comes out during some kind of fight with the with the two
01:03:09
girls and he's losing control of his two victims that he's coralled with this gun
01:03:15
one he may not know that that bullet was was there so he does not know that he made
01:03:21
that mistake the other thing though too is let's say he racked the gun because if he's losing control of these girls
01:03:28
one thing that will that will quickly straighten out people and get people's attention very
01:03:33
quickly is cocking that gun and making that sound right that gets everyone's attention we we discussed this when we
01:03:41
talked about the audio and why there were difficulties with the audio there were a lot of leaves on the
01:03:48
ground that day it's February in Indiana there's a decent chance that even if he
01:03:54
knows that he left the bullet there he may have spent some time looking for it and could not find it but regardless
01:04:02
you're you're spot on I think that if police would have come out right away and said that there was a gun used in
01:04:07
some form or fashion you know maybe maybe he's looking at this and going okay yeah I brought a gun to the scene
01:04:12
with me but that's not what I use to kill the girls and maybe he has no idea that police had evidence that there was
01:04:22
a gun at the scene that day correct so he doesn't know any better to get rid of it what is interesting too
01:04:29
when we talk about the gun and the bullet is that this is this is going to be a problem for Richard Allen once this
01:04:40
thing finally gets to trial a big problem he's going to have is that he is on record telling law enforcement and
01:04:49
this is what's stated in the PCA Richard Allen stated he had not been on that property where the unspent round was
01:04:56
found that he did not know the property owner and he had no explanation as to why a round cycled through his firearm
01:05:04
would be at that location furthermore he stated that he never allowed anyone to use or borrow his gun so that's going to
01:05:14
be a big problem for him because if they can if their experts can convince a jury that that
01:05:24
unspent live round came from Richard Allen's Gun that They confiscated from his home he's now telling you I've never
01:05:33
lent this gun to anyone ever at any time and then he's also saying yeah I went to
01:05:39
the trails often he said he was would regularly go to the trails oh but I've never been on that piece of land so he
01:05:48
he can't later say well his defense cannot say based off of this information and off of Richard
01:05:56
Allen's own words that let us paint a picture of Richard Allen having having been at the
01:06:03
trails many times before we told you when we talked about Richard Allen's arrest on
01:06:10
hollowen that we were aware of a weapons permit that he obtained in June of 2009
01:06:17
that was very likely a concealed carry permit and so if he's out at these Trails often
01:06:24
it's not highly unlikely to believe that he might have been packing while he's going to the trails regularly but now he
01:06:32
can't use the defense of oh I was there previously and that I must have dropped that bullet or that bullet came out of
01:06:39
my gun at a date prior to when the girls were murdered now what we have is a guy
01:06:44
that's admitted to being at the crime scene that day during the time that it's believed that they were killed having
01:06:52
gone there often but a bullet that came from his gun is found directly between the two murder
01:07:00
victims on a piece of land he says he's never been on two feet away two feet away from one of the victims well let's
01:07:07
take a little bit of time to go through Richard Allen's defense team's rebuttal of the PCA yeah the first thing that in
01:07:17
their rebuttal is their interviews that they're giving after the hearing and he's got two very good attorneys
01:07:27
from my understanding that's what I've been told that that people that know of their work and their career are saying
01:07:32
that these are two very good very capable attorneys both of them were from my recollection on record giving on
01:07:41
camera interviews stating that they saw nothing in this PCA that conclusively points to their client as being guilty
01:07:52
their they on record is saying that they believe their client is innocent and he
01:07:58
believes he is innocent and he's told them that much they've also said that there was nothing in this PCA that
01:08:04
indicated to them that somebody else could be involved in this crime I thought that was a little o i a couple
01:08:11
things here I thought the whole other person being involved was odd from both sides of the argument one from the
01:08:19
prosecution to me it seems to like lessen your case a little bit against Richard Allen to publicly state that and
01:08:25
maybe they're just saying it like using that as additional ammunition for not having the PCA released which but at the
01:08:34
same time the the prosecutor showed up to the hearing telling the judge yeah I brought a redacted version of the PCA
01:08:43
with me today that if you were to release it we would ask that you release this redacted version instead of the
01:08:50
full document which again there's eyewitnesses names stated clearly in and throughout that document and those
01:08:59
people need to be protected for many many reasons not not that that we're just going to have a court case coming
01:09:05
up but I also thought it odd on the defense to say yeah we don't know what the prosecution's talking about somebody
01:09:13
else being involved I think regardless of who you're representing I think you want to keep that door open now if you
01:09:22
want to go hard and fast about and and say look we don't know what they're talking about it doesn't really matter
01:09:29
because our client is innocent so we don't we don't know if this was committed by one or two or more people
01:09:34
had some kind of involvement it really doesn't matter because our client is innocent that's one thing but just to
01:09:40
say that to to not leave the door open a little bit seemed a little weird to me but what we do have here go ahead well
01:09:47
you have to follow that up with his final statement at that Courthouse that day was he basically was also stating
01:09:55
hey look I've just been on this case for 7 days I don't know much about this case
01:10:02
so other people involved I don't know exactly what they're talking about because he's basically telling you I
01:10:09
haven't had time to dive into this and he I think he even made the statement uh of something that people in the media
01:10:17
and and podcasters and armchair detectives probably know more about the case than he did at that time last week
01:10:24
they released they being his Richard Allen's attorneys released a a statement a press release statement stating that
01:10:32
they do not want to try this case in the media and they intend to adhere to the Indiana rules of professional conduct
01:10:41
that provide guidance to on pre-trial publicity and they do point out look the the police and Prosecutors office have
01:10:49
conducted many press conferences over the five plus years of this investigation and even additional press conferences
01:10:58
following the arrest of their client so I think it's fair for them to have their
01:11:02
give their two cents on everything and they pretty much release a three-page document to the media that states in
01:11:12
bullet point form here's some reasons why and here's some reasons that point toward Richard or Rick as they refer to
01:11:22
him throughout this doc doent as being innocent and one we we should point out he's never been arrested or accused of
01:11:31
any crime in his entire life let alone a crime of this magnitude up up until this
01:11:36
point obviously he does state that he spoke with police on several occasions after the
01:11:45
murders uh that he volunteered information that he came forward again that's not terribly uncommon in fact we
01:11:54
said on True Crime garage that this whole hey we want to know the owner or the driver of the vehicle parked at the
01:12:01
CPS building we said years ago that might just be a ploy that just might be some kind of con job to get someone to
01:12:10
come forward to explain away why their vehicle would have been seen there that day we've seen and reviewed many cases
01:12:16
in the past where there's a fictitious vehicle that's made up by police to try to get the per to come forward and now
01:12:24
we got a whole another name on our list of people that admit to being in that general area that day on the murders
01:12:30
Well turns out that might have been Rick Allen's vehicle and then him coming forward to police and saying that he was
01:12:37
there that day again does not make him it doesn't Point towards innocence in my opinion it it points to Simply exactly
01:12:45
what he's saying he was there that day that's not a disputable fact it's it's something that is fact he was there that
01:12:52
day puts him on on the suspect list in my opinion and a lot of times these guys will come forward and they'll say yes I
01:12:59
was there that day because they know that they were likely seen by somebody else and they're trying to get ahead of
01:13:04
it they're trying to get ahead of it so you don't have to ask me well why were you there that day and you said you
01:13:10
weren't there that day to me any time that you put yourself at the crime scene which that whole crime scene is the park
01:13:18
and so by him coming forward that doesn't point to any innocence at all that points to the
01:13:24
probability that points to the possibility that he could be the killer again I agree with you you then take
01:13:31
that person and they're not an eyewitness you put them on a person of interest list well and then they're
01:13:38
trying to call this bullet they're they're calling it a single Magic Bullet so they're trying to
01:13:44
discredit the bullet information and again yes is it exact science it sounds like there's an argument that it's not
01:13:52
exact science but to call it a Magic Bullet is really an attempt to publicly discredit the information that led to
01:14:01
your client's arrest and I don't have a problem with them making a statement because the PCA was then was the PCA was
01:14:08
released to the public but then a judge issued a gag order on the attorneys and so I think the sad thing for me in this
01:14:19
case is when they made an arrest I started thinking well this is um the beginning of the end but
01:14:28
the more I've talked to experts law lawyers um defense attorneys other individuals uh
01:14:40
detectives and law enforcement this is the beginning of the beginning yeah and I think you and everybody are correct in
01:14:48
that and we can see that in the information that that we know about this case we know there's going to be a bond
01:14:54
hearing I believe that's scheduled for February of next year so that is in the foreseeable future but there also would
01:15:01
would be a probable cause hearing at some point there's going to be a preliminary hearing at some point all of
01:15:07
those three things could take place all at the same time the other thing though is we know
01:15:13
that the defense has requested a change of venue and in fact they are stating that they would like for the venue to be
01:15:20
150 miles away from Deli car County area but we know that the trial needs to stay in the state of
01:15:30
Indiana and so that makes it a little difficult there's not a whole lot of places that they could end up having
01:15:36
this trial if they were to get their request granted that it's at least 150 miles away from Deli because he can't
01:15:44
get a fair trial in Carroll County that doesn't have to be granted that's something that a judge will take under
01:15:51
consideration into consider a and make a determination on at a later date there's
01:15:58
there's a chance that we don't see Richard Allen actually in an actual trial until August I would say maybe
01:16:08
August of next year would be the earliest that I would anticipate a trial this thing could also be
01:16:15
2024 before he's in an actual TW trial it might be up to 18 months is is some of the uh thoughts that I've had on this
01:16:23
ever since his arrest that we could we could be waiting 18 months to get this and I'm glad that you brought up the gag
01:16:29
order for several reasons it's just an that that's what this case is going to be that's what it was from day one and
01:16:37
that's appears that it's going to be that going forward and you know Doug Carter said you want to know addressing
01:16:44
Bridge guy addressing the killer you want to know what we know well one day you will but that also pertains to the
01:16:50
public and to some members of the media as well and that one day you will might not be until day four five 6 10 of an
01:17:00
actual trial that could be anywhere from eight months to 18 months away the gag order this is this is one thing it's a
01:17:09
side note here Captain but it's one thing that's always kind of cracked me up that you know we have this this
01:17:16
justice system well and the listeners know how much you like to laugh well and they call it a gag order it's like you
01:17:23
could have come up with any other term then gag order sounds to me like we got some heaving someone heaving in the
01:17:31
corner over there right it like an order of Silence would be probably more appropriate than gag orders
01:17:39
like so one thing that I do want to thank all of our listeners we I've received a mountain of
01:17:48
emails Thanking us for our continued coverage on the deli case we first covered this case in May of
01:17:56
2017 in episodes 110 and 111 we were one of the first podcast to cover it that's
01:18:03
back when there was very little information and we had two episodes full of speculation full of rumors and we
01:18:13
went on to cover it many times since then you know that we have now done previous to today Captain we've done 17
01:18:20
we've dedicated 17 episodes of about 17 hours of coverage plus today devoted to this case and back in May of
01:18:30
2017 when we first covered it we said that we were going to see this thing through to the end and now here we
01:18:38
sit 2000 over 2,000 and roughly 20 days later and now we have a very big and very bright light at the end of the time
01:18:53
now we don't know we still don't know where the end of the tunnel is how long it's going to take us to get there but
01:18:58
we for for the very first time in five and a half years starting in mid October it looks like there's a very big and
01:19:06
bright light at the end of the tunnel and I'm excited to see what comes of this going forward and I said we covered
01:19:14
it 17 times on True Crime garage we've also discussed this case countless times on our other show off the Record which
01:19:21
is available on Stitcher premium if anybody wants to go and listen to to those shows and then if you will allow me to
01:19:28
do this Captain I'm going to break one of my own rules one of the garage rules that we have we have a very short list
01:19:36
of rules here in the garage and this one was implemented by me but I'm going to go ahead and break one of my own rules
01:19:43
one of our agreed upon garage rules and when we first started this flying ship we said that one thing that we that we
01:19:51
were going to steer away from steer clear of was to get in a habit of Defending ourselves we have put
01:19:58
ourselves into a position where we throw out speculation where we examine a case
01:20:03
we bring it into the garage we take it apart we put it back together see if if everything works and then we give our
01:20:10
opinions on these cases sometimes we're right sometimes we're wrong sometimes the case remains unsolved and we just
01:20:17
don't know what is right and what is wrong until the cases are solved but I'm going to break my own rule here and
01:20:24
defend ourselves here for a moment because with all the gratitude that came from the listeners of we thank you for
01:20:31
your continued coverage there also came a little bit of push back and some of that push back was well guys don't you
01:20:38
think you owe somebody an apology now and here's the thing I want to be clear in this in this statement first of all I
01:20:47
will be giving zero apologies in this case for a mountain of reasons but one of them will
01:20:54
be when all these suspects and I I'm using air quotes here all these people that were pushed forward by the media
01:21:01
and by locals of this person was arrested for this serious infraction or this crime or this murder or attempted
01:21:09
murder or molestation he looks just like Bridge guy sounds just like bridge bridge guy if it walks like a duck and
01:21:16
it quacks like a duck then it then it definitely is a duck Us in the garage we're telling everyone hold on let's
01:21:22
pump the braks a little bit here on this let's not string this guy up just yet let's pump the brakes a little bit here
01:21:28
in one of our coverages we discussed an individual that we called we labeled this individual as DP DP was a person
01:21:37
that has told police that he was at the trails that day on the day that the girls were killed and then later his
01:21:44
story changed we at no time and I know I can say 100% as fact Yours Truly at no time said
01:21:55
that DP is a suspect in this case what we pointed out was that an individual that
01:22:02
puts themselves at a crime scene be it Deli be it John Benet Ramsey be it Lan Bryant shootings any case that you can
01:22:11
think of out there unsolved case that you can think of any person that puts themselves at a crime scene on the day
01:22:18
of the crime should be considered a suspect and should be looked at as a person of interest until you can clear
01:22:26
them of such now what we thought was a misstep in the investigation or appeared to be a possible misstep was that when
01:22:34
this individual changed their story we from everything we could see it looked like they were still being considered a
01:22:42
witness a potential witness instead of a potential Person of Interest and it was
01:22:47
of our opinion to move that individual back to the person of interest list rather than just an eyewitness no
01:22:55
apology will be made because every part of our opinion was is true and it holds true to this day and it holds true to
01:23:04
every case going forward that we we review we will still hold that opinion on other cases but keep in mind what
01:23:12
happened here in Deli Rick Allen told police that he was there that day he was at the trails on
01:23:20
the day that the girls were killed and then later they they they swallowed that pill early
01:23:29
on but later at some point something changed in the investigation that led them back to Richard
01:23:37
Allen and he switched from being a potential eyewitness to a potential Person of
01:23:45
Interest so strong that it led to his arrest and just to double down on that like we said if we were lawn enforcement
01:23:53
we would take every eyewitness and instead of looking at them as eyewitness we' look at them as a person of interest
01:24:00
until we could prove otherwise and if they would have done that in 2017 they would have made a arrest in
01:24:07
2017 in the deli case we want to thank all of our listeners for sticking with us and listening to all of these
01:24:14
episodes that we have devoted to this case if you want to go back and listen to those prior episodes I'll include
01:24:21
those in Today's Show notes so you can review them there and decide if you want to go back and listen to them again or
01:24:29
listen to them for the first time we also want to give a big Kudos a big attab boy to Doug Carter and his team at
01:24:39
the Indiana State Police the sheriff's department in Carrol County uh the deli police everybody that had their hands
01:24:46
involved in getting an arrest finally in this case this as the captain pointed out is either the beginning of the end
01:24:54
or maybe just the beginning of the beginning but regardless it's a step in the right direction we've been hoping
01:25:01
and praying and at times even crying for justice for these two poor little girls
01:25:06
that were victimized by some kind of monster there that day on the trails and it looks like finally we might be
01:25:12
getting to a good place here in Seeking Justice and getting Justice for Libby and Abby and we just want to commend
01:25:21
everyone for any involvement at all whether it just being a listener whether it just being somebody that told
01:25:27
somebody else about the case kept the case alive in the media and all the way up to the law
01:25:34
enforcement officers the the good women and men of Indiana state law enforcement
01:25:39
that kept at it with this case cheers there [Music] everyone [Music] they say police didn't contact Allan
01:25:59
after Abby and Libby disappeared instead Allan voluntarily talked with investigators about being on the trail
01:26:05
that day then Allan didn't hear from police again for more than 5 years until about a month ago they say Allan did not
01:26:13
get rid of his car his guns or his clothing he didn't move and just continued to live his normal life they
01:26:20
attacked the so-called unspent bullet evidence outlined in court documents released this week they criticize
01:26:27
ballistics and its use in court cases calling it anything but a science and they point out prosecutors have
01:26:34
mentioned there may be another person involved in this case but there's no mention of other suspects in the court
01:26:40
documents now before the probable cause affidavit was released the Carroll County prosecutor released a statement
01:26:47
reassuring the public he has a very solid case it went on to say we strongly believe the evidence shows Richard Allen
01:26:54
was involved in the murder of Libby and Abby want to thank everybody for joining
01:27:01
us here in the garage you want to help out the show go to iTunes and leave us a fstar
01:27:06
review we have another special show tomorrow so join us back here in the garage same bat Time same bat Channel
01:27:14
and until then be good be kind and don't [Music] litter [Music] is it possible to predict the
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