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week okay [Music] thank you [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who has been sentenced to solitary confinement behind
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the glass in the garage Studio Engineers room he is our captain yeah so if I'm not making any sense you know why and
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it's good to be seen and it's good to see you and I'm telling you I'm tired of the bologna sandwiches thanks for
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listening and thanks for telling a friend [Music] foreign with happiness a delicious double Porter
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called bonfire from Napa Smith bonfire is a beautiful black color with a little caramel sweetness with roasted malt
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flavors that goes down silky smooth garage gray three and three-quarter bottle caps out of five and here we go
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and give praise and cheers to our good friends first up praise and cheers to Anthony in Craig Colorado on a big
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special we I love your gym big thank you to Michelle and Baltimore Maryland next
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up we have Mary Bell and Paris California and a big cheers to Sarah in Springfield Illinois next up Captain we
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have my man Sean in Boulder Colorado Who Says with each episode he can feel his jib getting bigger
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and last but certainly knocking flicky yeah last but certainly not least Captain we have Mark and Toronto Ontario
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True Crime podcast yeah and please write to your local Congress person to free me
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free me for my solitary confinement save the Captain Save please there's nothing to do and everybody's
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staring at me forget about saving the captain just put pants on just go to iTunes and leave us some some Stars we
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need your stars five stars please and that is enough of the business everybody gather around grab a chair
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grab a beer let's talk some true crime please [Music] where we left off yesterday Captain they
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had just found missing Ray Rivera's body inside the Belvedere Hotel which is now
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primarily being used for Condominiums and he has crashed through the roof we still do not know for what reason and
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his lifeless body is found inside the building array had multiple injuries including
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lacerations fractured ribs punctured lungs of course suggesting that he had fallen from a height into this room some
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of Ray's injuries are stated to be consistent with a fall While others are stated not to be and in particular they
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cite his tibias being fractured the medical examiner will go on record saying that this does not seem to be
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consistent with a fall that would be your shins correct also found we have raised flip-flops that were found on the
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Roof near the hole that he crashed through one broken and one with fresh drag marks
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Rey's glasses are found and they appear to be in good shape his cell phone is found the phone has scratches on it but
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it is not broken it's in working order raise money clip which was an engraved wedding gift from
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Allison that she and his brothers say he always carried with him they do not find this on Ray's person or
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on the rooftop other than that it seems pretty consistent that what Allison and others
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believe he would have left with him that day taken with him when he left the house that day
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everything was found on him with him or on the rooftop and I'm assuming they never found the money clip back out his
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house or anything right this was not found on him it's never been located at all I think it'd be something that would
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be completely washed away from the story had it been recovered okay so the problem with a lot of this
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is the hole itself and where Rey is found according to Unsolved Mysteries there were three possible places from which
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Rey could have jumped or maybe been pushed from to end up going creating that hole and
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then crashing down into that unoccupied room and for people who haven't seen the
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episode I'm going to post all these pictures there's a bunch of pictures of the actual hotel or condo complex
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whatever you want to call it and a bunch of different angles and a rooftop View and even some measurements that people
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have taken I'll post all of those to our Instagram that's at True Crime garage follow us on Instagram this is where it
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gets difficult that we are simply audio and there's no video to go along with it
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because I think you know we're going to do our best to tell the story and paint the picture for
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you well people keep requesting audio because they're so handsome but I keep breaking the cam video yeah so as police
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began to analyze this case numerous aspects seemed odd about Ray Rivera jumping off of the main roof
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of the Belvedere Hotel this is partly due to where the location of the hole is in the lower roof
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there was a considerable horizontal distance between the hotel Tower and the location of the hole in the
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lower roof so I think the way to go about this here Captain because we have these three different spots that
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Unsolved Mysteries says he could have come from to end up going through that hole in the roof and that's a weird way
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of saying it to go through that hole in the roof it makes it sound like the hole
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was already there right his unfortunately his body created that hole but I think you have to say it that way
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because it's really the placement of the hole as far as a distance goes from the
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surrounding above areas to get to that spot that makes it seem mathematically difficult right and that
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again is a big part of the mystery of why did he end up there and how did he end up where we found him so the first
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one that I think we should discuss would be the parking garage because this one seems to be the most easily explained
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away as no it seems like this is the least likely of these three spots that he could have come from yeah possibly
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right so the way that this works is that the parking garage the top of it is the
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measurements are about 20 feet higher than the lower roof that he crashed through and the spot the hole in the
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roof is about 20 feet out the detective that initially looked at this case he's on record saying I don't
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think that that is a high enough distance to create an impact that one would even kill a man or two would cause
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him to crash through the ceiling so I'm gonna go with that detective's assessment of of that uh angle there
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from the top of the parking garage one good let's go with the suicide angle as well it would be a pretty far distance
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for somebody to run and try to jump yes it would be but I think that there would
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be okay so I think that there's a problem with the distance of the upper rooftop of the Belvedere more so than
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the distance traveled to make it to that spot on the lower roof from the parking
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garage it's only 20 feet out what he's saying is that if if Rey would have jumped from the parking garage he likely
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would have survived the jump right and and let's say the other problem is he did create a
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hole in the ceiling and go through the detective is saying he would have survived it and or not have had a great
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enough impact to crash through the ceiling what I've heard and since we're starting with the parking garage
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uh one idea that I find very interesting or a theory that I find very interesting
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is or could you get there and could you create an unpack if the you know the velocity was stronger than somebody
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throwing you or jumping as maybe he was hit by a vehicle or thrown from a vehicle that's an
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interesting question because what you have to account too if you go well he jumped okay well
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if you know how hard it is to jump when you're both of your shins are broken if in fact the fall didn't create the
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break well the doctors are saying they didn't they say inconsistent right so which is not the same as impossible
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right but again nothing's impossible he could you know aliens could have thrown them
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from the sky for all we know but I'm going to go with the doctors and say this injury happened beforehand okay
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what would hit you around The Shins well certain cars bumpers possibly could hit you
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um so is it a situation where he's going to meet somebody up and when he met them up
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do they have baseball bats or did they hit him with a car and then was he on top of the car and then they drove him
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really fast to the edge and hit the brakes is that a possibility it I mean you just said aliens could
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have put him there so I I don't know I don't know how to go about this there is a wall I mean it's not like a straight
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ledge that you would go off of or that if a vehicle hit you that you would just be essentially shot out of a cannon and
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fired to that spot on the roof so I think it's I think it gets a little difficult of okay you just said that it
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would be very difficult for him to get there jumping wise 20 feet out it also seems possibly even more difficult to
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get to throw him out that far yeah like two two people throwing a six foot five 260 pound man that does not want to go
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over a ledge yeah you manage to catapult him out 20 feet now I I get what you're
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saying about the distance traveled seems to be difficult and everybody agrees with that the reason why I'm kind of
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glossing over that and moving to the next part is because the if he were to go from the rooftop up the distance
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traveled horizontally would be even more now granted he would have a further distance of falling
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to to get out that far they do say that it's scientifically possible it's not impossible that he
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couldn't have got himself all the way out there so the way that that works is we just talked 20 feet out if he were to
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jump or get shot or however from the top of the parking garage over to the rooftop where he crashed through the
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horizontal distance from the roof top all the way up one of the other options is estimated at 40 to 43 feet so almost
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double the distance correct so they brought in some Engineers to see if this is even possible and they estimate that
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somebody traveling at a speed of 10 or 11 miles per hour could in fact make it all the way out
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that far now you have to factor in a few different things right one could he even
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get up to a speed on foot of 10 to 11 miles per hour most people put that as a fast jog or
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Sprint for the average fit male this would be you know again wearing sports shoes
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this guy's wearing flip-flops one of them ends up broken but yeah it's it's estimated that
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somebody could get up to that speed well they could have been in his hand yes and so he could have just ran
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Barefoot but again then anytime you factor in that this is suicide I guess you have to then again assume that the
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fall shattered his shins I don't know and I I think they were talking a lot about that there's not a lot a lot of
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access to that roof so that would be hard for him to even get access so what we have here is with the other two
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locations again the parking garage aside because it doesn't seem that that would
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have killed Rey right but the other location would be from the 11 from the 11th floor ledge of
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the Belvedere Hotel now this spot seems to make a little more sense because it puts him much closer to the hole and the
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rooftop below yeah and it's enough distance that he could have ran so whatever speed he would have to get
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up to to make that distance he could have done yeah and again I he wouldn't have had to make it out that far of a
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distance that's why this spot seems to make a little more sense as far as the math
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goes the problem with the 11th floor ledge and we say ledge but I mean you see this on Unsolved Mysteries and yeah
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they're they're kind of quick to say hey it'd be difficult to to walk along that ledge it actually looked
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like a pretty a pretty decent sized ledge to me as you pointed out the problem with the 11th
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floor ledge and getting to the top of the Belvedere itself is that we don't have anybody
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who has ever reported to have seen Ray Rivera in the building that night yeah and where's the cameras do you
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think you know this is a hotel that turns into condos they would have some security you know
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a lot about this I mean you worked in a high-rise condo facility for a while yeah I worked in a building that would
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be the general description would be the same as what we're talking about here the Belvedere Hotel high rise
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Condominiums Downtown and you guys have a lot of cameras we had a ton of cameras
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I guess the major difference here would be that the building I worked in was built in the late 90s and as we
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discussed this building was built in the early 1900s now of course you come in and you put in those cameras much later
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they didn't have security cameras when the building was built obviously we don't have anybody that says that they
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saw Ray Rivera in the building prior to finding him dead in the portion of the building below
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one major problem with that Captain is the 11th floor ledge that he would have had to get to this is privately owned
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condos this is not just like some some space inside the building where people can get to I'd like to know if any of
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them are connected to his old work that is the major question I think that is the big question that is missing from
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the Unsolved Mysteries presentation as well as anything else that I could find because
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the times that I worked in these types of of living situations it was very common for individuals to
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live in the residential Tower and work at buildings within walking distance of the residential Tower
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these are typically fairly well to do people that are working downtown and they're living and paying that higher
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cost of living to live there so that they don't have to commute in and out of the city that they can you know what oh
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it's a nice day I think I'll just cross the street and go up to the 10th floor to my office the 11th floor has condos
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that are owned by individuals he would have had to have had access by one of those individuals somehow to get
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out to the ledge and then the weirder part is nobody's coming forward saying yeah he he committed suicide right
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outside my window yeah but it could have been like a force jump situation either they're attacking him within a
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room and he went to escape and this is what happened or it was look buddy you're gonna go off that
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ledge and jump for it and if you don't we're going to kill your wife you know it could have been
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that kind of situation it doesn't he could have jumped and it still could have been murder I mean I think he could
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have made that distance I still question injuries to his shin but then I also question
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were they was he being beat up by anybody was he possibly hit with something was there possible fractures
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and not not breaks until the actual jump if that makes any sense right if he's trying to escape or there's injuries
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that they can't account for because of the because of the fall or going through the roof
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are those because he was being attacked by somebody so you brought up the security cameras and one thing that
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really upset me when I first started looking into this case is is just what upset me when we talked about Jennifer
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Cassie's case or you know be it a hotel in downtown Chicago we've covered cases that that have that going on and anytime
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that we have Boston right Brandon Swanson no he was out in the middle of Jesse Ross Kanika Jenkins and I mean
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there's a there's a a good long list of cases that we've discussed that have security cameras involved and one thing
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that upset me in some of those cases is that they have no camera footage yet they have the cameras as fixtures on and
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inside the buildings this is a situation where we don't have any camera footage as well
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now on the surface most of the reports out there State the same thing that they were the the camera was disconnected
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or there was a glitch in the system that sounds very suspicious almost like oh we knew we were going to kill him we
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knew we were going to throw him off the side of this building let's make it so the cameras are not working after some
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more digging what I found was that it was a simple case of remember he wasn't found very quickly he was missing for a
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week the way this was all digitized so the program was set up to record over it's old footage at some point
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and because they had they found him within a day 24 hours 48 hours whenever they likely would have had some kind of
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footage of what was going on and we would have a whole very likely a whole different story to tell here in the
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garage today but the way that I understand this Captain is that it was because he wasn't
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found for a certain amount of time that be a week or a little over a week that the the footage was set up it was
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predetermined to record over itself and therefore whatever it captured is just completely lost right so that's
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just it's it's unfortunate and I will say this you know because I saw the question come up that says
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well this is just a shame you know I could understand it had he been missing for two weeks three weeks
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or four weeks or a month that they would have recorded over top of it it's very common in in most of the
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situations I've worked in that the footage is recorded over within a week of itself yeah because normally if
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there's a crime police are pretty quick to go around and collect any footage now
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at the places that I've worked Captain where there's an abundance of security and security officers what we would do
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is actually have someone view the footage before we would before we would record over it now mind
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you the person is viewing it at four times eight times sixteen times the speed you're really just looking for
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anything blatantly obvious of something wrong going on yeah Bigfoot exactly I mean you
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can't it'd be difficult to pay somebody to sit there and watch days and days and
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days of footage every time you record over so I went from being pretty upset because the the thing that I pointed out
00:23:20
in Jennifer kessie's case along with a lot of these other cases if you're paying to live there that's one of the
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things that's built into your homeowners fees to your condo fees is that they are
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selling you peace of mind they are selling you that you live in a secure building okay so just to go over this
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real quick so the parking garage like I said I heard the theory about him getting hit by a car and maybe the car
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launched him but like you said there's a wall there's all these factors is it possible I don't know if you tried it a
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hundred times maybe one out of 100 it could happen but doesn't seem likely and would that be enough Force to send him
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through this roof the problem also with the roof is we just don't know for certain
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because he's also a like you said he's a tall guy he's a heavier guy at what height is that possible
00:24:14
so even though I like that theory I don't think it's likely so the parking garage for me just doesn't seem like the
00:24:21
most plausible right but then even less likely to get to the top of this facility and to jump off or to be pushed
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off it doesn't seem like it's that probable it seems like he would have to be doing
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a lot of traveling through the air and because it's so much higher up it seems like maybe there would be more
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damage to the body and then it doesn't make a lot of sense with the cell phone and the flip-flops
00:24:58
being found on top of the roof at that height now if you go down lower like you were saying this other ledge
00:25:06
but he'd have to have access through one of them private rooms or private condos
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but it does seem possible that that that's more likely to me that that ledge would be where he came from
00:25:24
and now with the flip-flops and the phone no hear me out that could be wrong I've
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always thought well that seems like maybe that afterwards May did somebody go to the garage
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get onto the roof of the building walk across and look down to see to make sure he's dead
00:25:49
right and then did they leave those items behind or is it possible those items were in his hands
00:25:59
and once he hit the roof he then loses control of them and now they're only falling
00:26:10
you know a couple feet if that makes sense as he's going through the roof yeah so the way that I've always kind of
00:26:18
thought about this and I thought look the the flip-flops the eyeglasses the the cell phone to me is not such a big
00:26:26
mystery because as our cell phones have gotten smarter and more sophisticated they seem to have gotten more fragile
00:26:32
over the years his cell phone is kind of a plasticky cell phone that I think could take well they say take a licking
00:26:40
and keep on ticking that's what she's I could see the cell phone surviving that fall the eyeglasses seem a bit strange
00:26:47
to me but yeah because there's a the eyeglasses are also on the roof as well so the people that discredit
00:26:55
anybody saying that he could have come off of the parking garage or off of either of those places of the Belvedere
00:27:00
rooftop they say well maybe he was pushed out of a helicopter which I'm not gonna lie to you that
00:27:08
mathematically makes some sense because he's then just dropping straight down right but what I witness do we have the
00:27:16
helicopter being in the area well not only that then you have a problem here like is he if he's dropped out of a
00:27:23
helicopter pushed out of a helicopter he's forced out under that manner is he is he just
00:27:28
holding these items because people say well maybe these items were staged to be there in that location and I look the
00:27:39
problem is if you force him off of the ledge at any of these three locations or force
00:27:46
them out of a helicopter then you have to figure out a way to magically place these items so that they fall right near
00:27:55
the hole of the roof that seems difficult not impossible but it seems unlikely okay go back so what you're
00:28:05
saying is if he jumps or you force him out that if he is holding these items if he
00:28:11
doesn't have them on his person right because there are people that say well maybe these items were staged
00:28:17
that oh you know I gotta I gotta get rid of his belongings now and I want to put
00:28:22
him near where they're going to find his body right it wouldn't be that hard for
00:28:27
them to go to the garage and walk on the roof and just place them down but that's
00:28:31
what I want to know I want to know when they say these items were found near the
00:28:35
hole in the roof what is that distance right because if they're saying that they're found within six inches of that
00:28:43
40 inch diameter hole that's pretty damn close yeah if they're found just on some
00:28:49
you know anywhere on the rooftop then then whatever anybody could have just tossed them from anywhere and they
00:28:55
landed there I also want to know like we have the flip-flops the glasses the cell
00:29:00
phone that we find on the roof do we find other items that are around his person in the room
00:29:09
no it seems like the the only things that were that were reported to be questionable were these items that were
00:29:18
found on the roof itself before he crashed through [Music] [Music] all right cheers you animals
00:29:50
True Crime animals True Crime animals all right we have a note to talk about here Captain oh
00:29:58
and this is a weird one and certainly one of the more weird aspects of this entire case in my opinion
00:30:07
and that is it a note was found taped to the back of Ray Rivera's computer and the way that this is described was
00:30:15
the angel his brother and Allison his wife found this note taped to the back of his computer after Rey disappeared
00:30:24
yeah but it's it's almost like he took a bunch of pages and shrunk them down into
00:30:28
one yeah the description I would provide for this note for those who have not seen it it appears that it's printed off
00:30:37
on his computer and it looks like it's three different columns and that he put it in the
00:30:44
smallest font he possibly could to fit all three columns which in themselves would be three different pages on one
00:30:53
single page and then he seems to have gone around and cut the edges the blank edges off of the paper to make the paper
00:31:01
itself even smaller and then folds it up and puts it into a plastic bag or some form of plastic and tapes it to
00:31:12
the back of his computer now you know there's a lot of things that you can question in this case and
00:31:21
this note is very bizarre I really do not know how to take this note or how to feel about it I will say
00:31:32
that the the things that were written on the Note itself it does appear to me for
00:31:39
as an outsider looking in that this was authored by Ray and Allison would go on to tell us that
00:31:46
she believes that it was it was written and printed the day that he went missing
00:31:51
because she found the Cutaway edges of the piece of paper in the trash can but again this note folded up and taped
00:32:02
to the back of the computer and we should also mention that along with the note there was they found a blank check
00:32:09
from his video production company now the general description of this note is that it is a confusing note that
00:32:16
included the names of prominent figures in Hollywood Freemasonry quotations and additional ramblings the FBI
00:32:26
analyzed this note and according to the retired detective interviewed on Unsolved Mysteries the he says the FBI
00:32:33
ruled that the note was not suicidal in nature I have seen it noted that the FBI
00:32:38
may have deemed the note to be the delusional ramblings of someone in the throes of a psychotic
00:32:46
break I think there's a lot of people that keep notes to themselves like you know I have notes that I put in my phone
00:32:53
that if you saw them you'd be like what what the heck is this one of them is just like a list of song titles
00:33:01
so if you went through the list and you start going on you know lonely forever the next song zombie pills you would
00:33:12
start reading the list on what the heck is this this sounds like he lost his mind
00:33:18
yeah I think the location of where they find the note adds to the mystery of it because now this man mysteriously
00:33:28
disappears his wife says that she cannot explain nor understand his death and then we
00:33:36
have this note that's taped to the back of his computer screen I get what you're
00:33:41
saying and that's what my mind immediately went to in my own personal life of of notes that I take be it on my
00:33:47
computer in my phone on scraps of paper in notebooks but that's in notebooks and on scraps of
00:33:55
paper you know what I mean it's like if you bury it in the backyard and it's later found or you put it up in your
00:34:01
attic or tape it to your ceiling or behind your computer screen it takes on a different meaning yeah in some way
00:34:07
it's like why why did he go to the effort to print it in this manner trim away the edges cover it up in plastic
00:34:15
include a blank check with it and then tape it to the back of the computer it's it's one of those weird things where
00:34:22
it's like did he do that because he wanted it to be found but not so easily found
00:34:28
and if it is just the ramblings of a creative mind who's saving ideas or creating ideas and and logging them for
00:34:38
later use it also again it seems like a strange place to yeah but there's also a
00:34:43
section where it's a list of a bunch of people he knew as well well I think we should probably go through what is
00:34:50
believed to be on this letter yeah and we'll say that because if you're looking I'll post a couple of the pictures that
00:34:57
I found online but it's but all you're seeing is like the the the note from a distance and like Nick was saying that
00:35:07
the Fawn is so small that you can't even make out anything so it's kind of interesting because this
00:35:14
case I've talked about was on Unsolved Mysteries was requested so highly from the listeners for us to go over it as
00:35:21
well and there's really normally a famous note like this it would be all over the
00:35:28
Internet and and be documented and and diagrammed out don't you kind of question the note even more because
00:35:36
they've chosen not to do that that's a good point it seems a bit weird that that Allison look and she is very
00:35:44
level-headed because I've seen interviews with her where she says all I'm asking is that this be looked at
00:35:51
and that people investigate his death because I think we've we've gone through so much minutia in this case that we
00:35:58
probably forgot to mention that the police deemed this to be a suicide they they say we don't have all the answers
00:36:05
but they say what we have found we don't have any reason to believe that anything
00:36:09
other than suicide took place here well and back to his wife Allison uh very smart you can tell she's very
00:36:18
intelligent so but why wouldn't she want to put out the note right and her exact words from
00:36:23
an interview that I saw with her she says all I'm asking is that people take another look at this that police and
00:36:29
investigators take another look at this for the for my sake and for the family's
00:36:33
sake and for uh Ray's sake and she's saying look if you decide upon further investigation that it was
00:36:41
in fact suicide I'm fine with that I just want to feel good and have some peace of mind about
00:36:47
the answers I'm getting and she does not have that right now well and I so then that makes me sorry to cut you off but
00:36:53
it makes me question it further then why is this note not more readily available
00:36:57
right because you can't I can't find it anywhere and you're good at computers and you normally find this what I can
00:37:03
find is pictures of this note and what I can find are people who have tried to transcribe the note best they can from
00:37:12
blurry images of the note or by watching Unsolved Mysteries and hitting pause on
00:37:17
the screen and trying to make out what they see there so when we go through what this note says
00:37:23
keep in mind we we can't say 100 percent that this is in fact the exact words word for word of what the note says well
00:37:31
I was just going to say a lot of people are very quick to rule out a possible suicide we have an individual that moved
00:37:37
him and his wife across the country for opportunity that obviously didn't work out or maybe he felt like he didn't let
00:37:48
the situation work out because it wasn't a good fit for him and then he was doing
00:37:52
some other stuff but when you have to start a company by borrowing a bunch of money
00:37:59
one of the number one reasons for suicide and especially in males is financial so it's just not out of the realm of
00:38:07
possibilities when people say oh well my brother would never do that or my friend
00:38:11
would never do that or my husband would never do that that happens a lot of times in in
00:38:17
suicides you know sadly enough but it's not out of the realm of possibility Captain I'm gonna go through this letter
00:38:25
a little bit and I'm not going to necessarily go through every single word because people can look this up and I
00:38:32
think that if we really tried to analyze this down to every sentence and every word
00:38:37
we would be doing another four or five episodes on Rey's case hey I'm I'm down so again this is what people have
00:38:46
interpreted this letter to say brothers and sisters right now around the world volcanoes are erupting what an
00:38:54
awesome sight then next we have a masonic quote again more of the Freemason stuff
00:39:01
and then that's followed by that was a well-played game congratulations to all who participated I hope you enjoyed it
00:39:09
but it is time to wake up so here I am I'd like to welcome those who accepted our invitations for membership during
00:39:16
the game we couldn't have done it without you I took on this endeavor to find the truth but not for its own sake
00:39:24
in accepting this quest for truth I hoped to make myself with the help of others into a man worthy and ready to
00:39:31
receive it members of the council please note that I will lend careful consideration to the tradition response
00:39:38
traditional responsibilities in light of these proceedings and I will satisfy the
00:39:44
standard request of this Council within the appropriate time again well done to all who participated
00:39:52
I expect the council has invited all the players who have gave their lives to this Pursuit back so they might join us
00:40:01
here again we we have no idea what he could be talking about join us here join us where
00:40:08
well and it could because he writes scripts it could be this jotting down an idea for a monologue in
00:40:15
the movie yeah and it goes on to say something like before I continue with my instructions for the council and claim
00:40:23
the prize for my service I'd like to allow Porter Stansberry to claim his prize in the next couple sentences it's
00:40:30
not clear a lot of the words are kind of missing I'm going to jump over that a little bit
00:40:35
but at some point it's thought that he's saying something to the effect of now that the game is finished
00:40:42
I expect the council to blank most people think he's saying reward those who have given
00:40:49
what might be time and talent to this venture along with myself these players should
00:40:56
be made five years younger by the council and then it's a long list of names and you can actually you can find
00:41:03
this in two versions you can find a small blurry version or you can find a bigger version where the last names are
00:41:10
redacted but it's a long list of names anything any thoughts so far on what we've gone through now keep going okay
00:41:21
I'm gonna I'm gonna offer up some of mine right here because I don't know what this council is that he's talking
00:41:27
about but he keeps referencing the game right it seems a little weird to me that
00:41:35
he is there seems to be some kind of Prize or reward that should be given to himself and to these other people and
00:41:44
one thing that I find very interesting is that the reward that he is saying that these people should get
00:41:50
is to be made five years younger by the council meaning the the list of names that follow
00:41:58
that because it is a reward these must be people that he deems to be good people
00:42:04
or deserving of a reward and going through this list one name that I did find on there is Frank
00:42:12
Stansberry which we said at the beginning of yesterday's episode that his friend his longtime
00:42:20
friend's name is Frank Porter Stansberry so again kind of going back to the idea that a lot of people
00:42:26
were suspicious of this Porter guy but if if he is in fact referencing his friend Frank Porter
00:42:36
Stansberry as Frank Stansberry in this portion of the letter it's almost like Ray is saying he's a
00:42:42
good guy he's deserving of some type of reward for his effort for his time for his talents for his Good Deeds Maybe
00:42:50
but then where that becomes a problem is several times in this same note or letter whatever you want to call it
00:42:57
he refers to this man as Porter sansberry so then you have to wonder is France is
00:43:04
Frank Porter stansberry's father does he have the same name and is Rey then rewarding somebody else
00:43:12
you know why would you refer to somebody a couple times as Porter Stansberry but
00:43:17
then later as Frank standsberry yeah well what's also weird because he he lists the the game
00:43:25
as in the section where he's listing movies the that's the I believe it's David Fincher uh the
00:43:36
David Fincher movie and but what's weird is and this I think has been kind of blown
00:43:44
up through Reddit is the main character in the game dies in a similar fashion Michael
00:43:52
Douglas uh he he dies from um jumping from the roof of the building through a glass ceiling yeah it's been a
00:44:02
long time since I've seen that movie um 1997. I actually recalled the movie different than that that there is
00:44:10
several scenes of somebody committing suicide by jumping off of a rooftop I don't recall it being
00:44:15
who is that Michael Douglas or John Douglas I get the two Father and Son confused I think it's Michael
00:44:21
yeah so a lot of people have referenced that is he talking about the game and then they take it a step further of
00:44:28
with somebody playing a game on him was he involved in some kind of game well the idea is in 1997 the film follows a
00:44:36
man uh who participates in a scheme which blurs his concept of reality and ends with him jumping from the roof of a
00:44:44
building through a glass ceiling so in the movie he's like extremely wealthy and it's what do you give the man who
00:44:51
has everything for his birthday you give him an experience and the experience is
00:44:57
given to him I Believe by his brother which then drives him to Insanity because it's just it's
00:45:04
it's it's an insane movie really I actually feel like if we are going to put meaning to these words and try to
00:45:12
decipher what he what he means here I almost feel like the game it's like he's referencing his life and
00:45:20
life being a game right and and so that's where I think it's weird that the FBI again we're not hearing this from
00:45:28
the FBI we're hearing it from a retired detective who says the FBI said they don't believe the note to be suicidal in
00:45:34
nature I actually go the opposite way and I'm I'm of course no expert but I go the opposite way and I see a note here
00:45:42
that looks to me well how many shows do you have to do until we start discontinuing an expert it looks to me
00:45:47
like they're like it is suicidal in nature it's like I could see that you know I mean it's like he's thanking the
00:45:54
people that were involved in his game and and the game being his life and I I wonder is there something a major event
00:46:02
that we are unaware of that took place within a few years or up to five years before Rey's death because the the
00:46:12
choosing of these players should be made five years younger by the council seems awfully
00:46:18
specific it's a very strange line right did did he lose his father did he lose somebody important to him one one quote
00:46:25
that I love and this is an old George Clooney quote is that the greatest gift that we can give the ones that we love
00:46:31
is time and I find that to be such an interesting quote because it's coming from somebody who's pretty darn wealthy
00:46:37
and could give anybody that he wants a bunch of money and he's right time is one hell of a gift and here we got Rey
00:46:45
referencing not that quote but he States something very similar with a long list
00:46:50
of people that he obviously cares about because the people that are included at the top of this list we have his brother
00:46:57
his father his mother his wife his sister so these are clearly people that he is listening that he loves that he
00:47:05
says he believes deserves some type of reward for their participation in their time in the game
00:47:12
he goes on to list a whole bunch of like inventions and innovations that came about since
00:47:19
his be since his game began and then he goes on into some weird business about the patents and proceeds
00:47:28
from all of these items that he'd list should somehow be transferred to him and he references several different
00:47:36
homes in different countries and continents that he can be found in at some point
00:47:42
and after that it's another list of movies that he that he really likes saying I would love to meet any of you
00:47:49
who helped contribute to these works and he lists many movies all of them you know they're they're interesting movies
00:47:56
not just the game but you have seven and National Treasure The Da Vinci Code The Matrix one two and three so on and
00:48:04
so forth in a specific reference to M Night Shyamalan old Shyamalan and then he goes on to say
00:48:14
I'd also like to single out and there's in the name of somebody again we have Porter his name referenced a
00:48:22
couple of times in this letter and I I really can't make heads or tails of this letter captain
00:48:30
I don't and I think that that this letter makes this story that much more confusing in the case that much more
00:48:37
confusing because what is this letter in itself well and like we said let's just
00:48:45
hypothetically say the the Freemason stuff or he started doing research for ideas for screenplays people that are
00:48:54
creative can get ramped up into that and we have evidence of maybe that turning into reality by not
00:49:01
wanting his wife to you know go somewhere thinks people are breaking into his house or or at least alarms
00:49:09
going off in his house is it possible there was something going on with inside his brain that his friends and family
00:49:16
just weren't aware of and that's why I keep going back to this idea of if he is truly afraid of something
00:49:24
why is he not telling people in his life even on the DL look I'm worried about this situation
00:49:32
I'm specifically worried about this whole thing right here especially his wife who he seems to be
00:49:39
concerned of her safety as well and then this note is left but what is the what is the purpose of
00:49:47
this note is it is it meant to be a warning I I that's what I'm getting at it's not
00:49:54
obvious that it's a suicide note that's clear well there's a lot of actors that have done big movies and then those
00:50:01
movies are connected to the FBI or the CIA and then there's a lot of conspiracy theorists that go oh well see
00:50:10
um they had Matt Damon do the Bourne Jason Bourne movies and then they bring him into the fold and so he actually is
00:50:18
a government agent now and there's all weird conspiracies of that nature and I just wonder
00:50:27
all these notes are again for some big movie and he's referencing all these movies he likes and wants
00:50:36
and wants to be inspired by this list of movies and here's all these actors that
00:50:41
he thinks could play in the movies that would understand the inner workings of a
00:50:47
movie that was based around the Freemasons or whatever like you could compile this whole thing that seems like
00:50:55
a crazy thing and just go this is a web when you're trying to create something as big as a movie you're you're thinking
00:51:02
about characters you're thinking about their backstory you're thinking about monologues that could be said in the
00:51:07
movie you're thinking about sets and tones and and it could just be a list of uh movies that he likes the tone in them
00:51:16
you know if you watch a you know Goodwill Hunting For example and you realize Gus fans amp uses it's all like
00:51:23
autumn colors the whole movie is is the list of movies just stuff he likes about the way it was shot
00:51:32
or the directors if you put in that context it's like well it all makes sense it could just be
00:51:38
research for a movie right and I think that's why what I'm trying to get at here is that the people that point out
00:51:45
that this letter means something I put a big question mark on that it very likely could mean nothing at all as
00:51:53
you're pointing out or how do we go and look at this and go oh of course he knew
00:52:00
that somebody was going to kill him or he knew that he was in deep trouble and so he left this cryptic letter
00:52:07
taped it to the back of his computer as a warning to everybody else or as a hey this is what happened to me but nobody
00:52:15
can figure out or make heads or tails of this letter so it didn't if if that was
00:52:20
the purpose of it he didn't do a very good job of of explaining that to anybody you see what
00:52:27
I mean like it it to argue that this letter is proof that he was in trouble and people were after him
00:52:34
I think that's a hard argument to make when it's not a clear it's not a clear warning and it's not a clear arrow
00:52:42
pointing to who did him harm yeah and and again this is I mean it sounds like a crazy Theory but I don't know the
00:52:50
character of Rey because I wasn't friends with him they didn't show like a bunch of clips of this guy I don't know
00:52:58
was he a gullible guy or not is it possible that he moves out here is not connecting well with friends and
00:53:07
he's a little gullible and he's talking about some movie he wants to make some conspiracy movie and then his friends
00:53:14
decide to play a trick on him just like the game right I don't understand why his friend
00:53:24
uh backed away like he did it seems like if it was suicidal or if he thought that there was
00:53:34
something going on with his friend mentally that he would have stuck around and answered as many questions as possible I
00:53:41
also think that if it was suicide that maybe this letter is kind of a cryptic way of leaving some kind of note
00:53:51
but again it's just not obvious so either there was no intent or with this letter itself
00:54:00
or it just it's lost on us if you're going to point to this letter and then then say this letter points more towards
00:54:07
suicide that's when I say I think this letter points more towards there was some kind of psychotic break
00:54:13
in this young man and he lost it and he chose to take his life when his wife was not in town
00:54:22
people people have said well he would have had to have known that Belvedere Hotel
00:54:29
he would have had to have some kind of understanding and he wouldn't have because he was not from there he was
00:54:35
from out of town and I that's where I take it a step further and I go I don't know that that
00:54:40
is the case I mean I think a big problem with this mystery is that it it was so long between the
00:54:47
time he went missing to the time that he was found if he chose to take his own life and
00:54:54
chose to purposely not do that at his home so that his poor wife wouldn't then later find his body
00:55:00
maybe he thought he was jumping into a place that would put him in you know right out there for somebody to
00:55:08
find him almost immediately so she wouldn't have to come home and find him but he just didn't know that building
00:55:15
and didn't know that he was landing and crashing through into a space that was for the most part unused right right
00:55:24
or didn't assume he would go through the roof yeah did he did he make a make did he make a mistake
00:55:32
and think that he was going to land on the street yeah I do want to go through something
00:55:37
else here here Captain real quick and this is from The Baltimore Sun newspaper Thursday August 6th of this year and
00:55:46
this is in response to the release of the ray Rivera episode on Unsolved Mysteries
00:55:53
and I'm just going to read a few selected paragraphs from this but I ask that you bear with me
00:55:59
this article includes an interview with Porter Stansberry as well as an interview with the author that wrote the
00:56:10
book about the Unexplained death the body at the Belvedere but it also includes a second friend of
00:56:17
Reyes and his name is Brad Hopman who said that he knew Ray Rivera since childhood and remained close with him up
00:56:25
to his death he also believes the story has been Twisted quote this is a real conversation the world can have about
00:56:34
mental illness and help people get help when they need it end quote he goes on to say and it turned out it
00:56:42
turned into a murder mystery where they're accusing people of being involved later in the article Stansberry says he
00:56:50
has received death threats and his family has been harassed online he said he's even been questioned by friends and
00:56:56
potential business partners Stansberry says quote it's horrific you can't even imagine what it's like to
00:57:03
tell people I had nothing to do with my friend's death then we have when Ray Rivera went
00:57:09
missing Stansberry said he hired a private investigator offered a reward and personally helped look for Rivera
00:57:16
once the body was found Stansberry said we were all sad and shocked by the fact that Rey killed himself but once we saw
00:57:24
all the facts and his financial pressures it wasn't much of a mystery in the show retired Baltimore homicide
00:57:32
detective Michael Bear and Rivera's wife say that after Rivera's body was found Stansberry refused to return calls from
00:57:40
investigators and put out a quote gag order on employees to keep them from talking
00:57:46
Stansberry says quote it's a complete lie it's not a matter of opinion it's a lie
00:57:52
he said only the employees were told to refer media inquiries to a spokesperson right which you've said is very common
00:58:00
he said he personally spoke with a detective on June 23 2006 so where this gets a little convoluted is remember
00:58:09
this is after detective bear was moved to another division so on Unsolved Mysteries detective bear
00:58:17
saying this man Stansberry wouldn't talk to me stansberry's saying I did speak to
00:58:21
a detective it was just a different detective right bear was moved and it's not any type of conspiracy
00:58:29
because bear did he he says look I did not agree with the police findings that this was suicide and I think there's a
00:58:36
good amount of questions here so I applaud him for going the extra mile to really get to the bottom of this but
00:58:43
it's not a conspiracy that he went against the grain and got moved to another division he requested to be
00:58:49
moved to this new task force that had formed and the way that those things generally work is you apply for a
00:58:56
position or a department change and it takes some time for that to go in effect so he gets moved now we have later in
00:59:04
the article where Allison Rivera has said the call came from this is the the last phone call the call came from the
00:59:12
switchboard of Agora publishing and the specific caller could not be determined Agora a global publishing company
00:59:20
headquartered in Baltimore has several subsidiary companies including stansberry's
00:59:26
and at the time all calls were routed through a main switchboard a police spokeswoman on Tuesday this would have
00:59:34
been August 4th of this year said the call came from an owned subsidiary company of
00:59:41
Agora publishing so when you read reports that say it came from Stansberry and Associates
00:59:48
that's not what the police's position is publicly on this they're not saying it didn't come from Stansberry Associates
00:59:56
they're just saying it came from a subsidiary of this parent company so his friend talks to law enforcement
01:00:05
he gets a detective to look for his friend he puts up an award now you have this other friend coming out saying that
01:00:12
Ray had some mental issues mental health issues but couldn't he still figure out
01:00:21
who made the call to Rey and what that call was about yeah because because I also think when
01:00:29
he talks about these Financial pressures he would know more than anybody because
01:00:34
he's the one that had his friend come out there and so he gets there and it's not working out but was it not working
01:00:42
out even more then we're LED on to believe because we we also don't have records and or
01:00:48
statements of all there was all this credit card debt and there were student loans and there was the house they were
01:00:54
upside down on the mortgage we just don't have any reports of that right we again we just have this Stansberry
01:01:00
character saying this publicly all these years later they haven't been in their house very long so I couldn't imagine
01:01:06
that they had much in the way of equity and I've seen many references to Allison's and Ray's
01:01:15
financials online I don't know where that those statements and reports are coming from so I don't
01:01:23
care to bother to report them here because it could just be some some twerp in his basement typing that
01:01:29
up and putting it out as fact I haven't seen it published anywhere by anybody that's credible
01:01:35
the article though cites a lot of really interesting things and if if I can I'll
01:01:41
continue here if you'll allow me I'll continue a little bit longer says Stansberry said that Ray Rivera had also
01:01:47
asked him previously if he had if he was in leadership of the Freemasons which Stansberry said he thought was a joke
01:01:56
he said when Rivera's family and friends were searching for him Rivera's wife told him that the Saturday before he
01:02:04
went missing Rey was morose and would not get out of bed she told me she was very worried about
01:02:12
his mental state at the time he disappeared Stansberry said quote I'm not the only friend Ray approached and
01:02:19
said these things that were very odd now back to the other friend the second friend that we referenced earlier Brad
01:02:25
Hopman raise childhood friend said not long before his death Rey repeatedly asked
01:02:32
him about being a member of the Freemasons and discussing the film Eyes Wide Shut Hopman who also worked for
01:02:41
Stansberry at one time but says they were not close said the week before his death Rivera
01:02:48
asked to be able to visit his top floor apartment in the Jersey City in Jersey City Rivera had a key to the place but
01:02:58
then returned it said quote he was acting really really weird that is a quote from Brad Hopman
01:03:05
in a separate interview that I read with employees and people that worked with this Porter Stansberry yeah
01:03:16
they said that it was pretty common for Porter who as you pointed out earlier is
01:03:20
pretty successful it was pretty standard practice for him to hire people that necessarily didn't have a background for
01:03:27
the position that he was offering them but they were people that he knew for most of his life right and that it was
01:03:34
people that he trusted you know he needed to put these people in a position of trust where they would have his back
01:03:40
he would have theirs and therefore he valued that trust level more than them being educated or
01:03:49
experienced in that specific area of work right one thing that I found really interesting and this goes along with
01:03:57
some of the opinions be it yours and mine that we have shared throughout the years in regards to the Brian Shafer
01:04:04
case listen closely brotman remember brotman is the author of the 2018 book about Rivera's death
01:04:15
she was a resident of the Belvedere she said that the Netflix show interviewed her for hours
01:04:23
and that she told them the roof was easily accessible not at all difficult to task to reach as the show asserted in
01:04:34
her book she explores the various theories and concludes that Rivera likely had a mental break and jumped
01:04:39
from the roof she says quote I think if they'd included my interviews it would have
01:04:45
closed down a lot of the speculation because it would have been obvious that a lot of avenues and angles had already
01:04:52
been explored at length end quote Stansberry said the case is being sensationalized quote I think what's
01:05:01
really sad about this is there are people in Hollywood who would do anything to craft the story to get
01:05:07
attention even when it comes to destroying someone's reputation and trying to sensationalize the tragedy of
01:05:15
a death of a 32 year old man end quote I find that awfully interesting that we have the woman that wrote a book about
01:05:24
this case that lives in the building and says you know what I I she's saying they
01:05:30
kind of conveniently left out my interviews because I was saying it was easy for someone to access the roof well
01:05:38
just like I've told you when I went and interviewed all those security guards at
01:05:42
the Ugly Tuna and they go of course there's blind spots and he could have got out of here without being on camera
01:05:47
yeah and you go well why has it been reported for the last five years or ten years or whatever that it was impossible
01:05:55
it's because it makes it a better story it's a little more juicy so you have here a situation and one thing I want to
01:06:02
point out too remember we said that when they when they transferred the Belvedere
01:06:08
Hotel when it went from being a hotel to being renovated into condominiums that there were still some portions of
01:06:16
the building that were not privately owned you know these are common spaces in some spaces that were in fact open to
01:06:22
the public right the Belvedere Hotel as It's oddly called even all these years later
01:06:29
has a space that is called the 13th floor well it's kind of a famous bar so it's open to the public for people to
01:06:38
go up all the way up to be at the 13th floor and have some cocktails and drinks up there well that's not too many floors
01:06:45
far away from either the top or the 11th floor ledge where it's believed that he
01:06:50
would have had to have jumped so I think it's it's a weird situation of what the story is kind of missing
01:06:59
that we're hoping to fill in here is that one yes the Rooftop in the ledge were probably more likely accessible
01:07:07
than what we have a standard you know then what we have an understanding of so far
01:07:14
so what it sounds like here Captain is that the areas where he possibly could have jumped from were easily accessible
01:07:24
that there is a reasonable explanation of why the security footage does not exist to this day
01:07:32
and we have Engineers who say that it is physically and mathematically possible for somebody to make it out that far
01:07:40
horizontally if they're traveling at a speed that is is easily attained by a man who's in
01:07:47
good physical condition so I rule on the side and well I lean on the side of suicide here unfortunately
01:07:56
with Ray Rivera's case the question I still have at the end of the day even with these answers that we've tried to
01:08:04
provide is why do we have a situation where no one has ever come forward and said I was
01:08:11
the person that called Rey on that day that he disappeared I think one of the reasons why people
01:08:17
have a hard time believing this is suicide is because there wasn't a lot of signs of depression
01:08:24
and so normally when people think of suicides they think of that the individual was depressed
01:08:31
again is it possible that he was having some kind of mental break and not seeing
01:08:38
things as clearly as he once did whatever happened to Rey was obviously very tragic and it's a horrible story to
01:08:46
have to tell it's a horrible case to have to try to sift through and make heads or tails of what possibly
01:08:52
happened to this young man who had his whole life ahead of him and as said was loved by everyone around him
01:09:00
again captain my question goes to if these other persons who are saying we believe this was a suicide we're backing
01:09:08
the police's theory of suicide this is what was going on in Rey's life at the time and it's a sad situation that we
01:09:16
cannot have a discussion about mental health about mental illness and work toward helping people
01:09:25
again why do we not have the person coming forward and saying I was the person that called Rey that afternoon on
01:09:33
May 16th [Music] seems like everybody has a opinion or a theory about this case if you have one
01:09:49
go to truecrime garage.com and leave that for us on the blog Colonel do we have any recommended reading for this
01:09:57
week let's do some recommended listening there Captain it's a good week I think to go check out some good music and you
01:10:05
can do that by checking out the captain's music at captainfatheands.com or go to True Crime garage.com and click
01:10:12
on the captain's anchor anchors away there Captain I also have a comedy CD coming out it's called I have a lot of
01:10:19
jokes but I don't know if my co-host is listening all right join us back here in
01:10:23
the garage next week until then be good be kind and don't litter thank you [Music]