00:00:07
[Music] so [Music] [Music] welcome to true crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:00:44
listening i'm your host nick and with me as always ladies and germs here he is the rock and roll outlaw that's right
00:00:50
i'm talking about your captain yeah don't be a fart sniffer it's good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for
00:00:56
listening thanks for telling a friend [Music] today we are very lucky to still have
00:01:07
some black tuesday grand reserve 2020 from the brewery this is a massively complex imperial stout which is aged for
00:01:15
two years and bourbon barrels and then an additional year in rye whiskey barrels garage grade four out of five
00:01:23
bottle caps and let's give some praise and cheers to our friends that helped us out this week first up a double barrel
00:01:30
cheers and thanks to mary and luke listening in beecher illinois a big shout out to laura in union grove
00:01:39
alabama and here we have a cheers to tonda in guthrie oklahoma and a big we like your jib to mark in austin texas
00:01:48
here's another double barrel cheers to jacob and jose and loganville georgia and last but certainly not least we have
00:01:55
carolyn w in lincoln nebraska everyone we just mentioned they went to truecrimegarage.com and helped us out
00:02:02
with this week's beer fund and for that we thank you yeah b w double are you in peer ron
00:02:08
guys be patient we're behind on the beer run so we will get to you when we get to
00:02:14
you and that is enough of the business all right everybody gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true
00:02:22
crime directly to the killer who may be in this room only a coward would do such a thing
00:02:42
what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls
00:02:51
only a cow wouldn't do such a thing don't give up [Music] we will not stop [Music]
00:03:06
doug carter and he has taken the stand we'll take a listen in the delphi community how grateful i am
00:03:18
you uh you inspire people you don't even understand when you don't even understand why
00:03:30
information is being released today is the result of literally thousands and thousands of hours
00:03:36
of extraordinary investigative efforts by delphi carroll county the fbi the indiana state police and countless other
00:03:43
agencies this community surrounded us some 26 months ago and you did everything you could to
00:03:55
support us but most importantly you surrounded the family of these two little girls
00:04:02
gosh i'll never forget it after you hear what we're going to release today i'm going to ask for your
00:04:09
continued support your continued understanding your empathy and compassion as we move forward
00:04:18
to find out who did this and we will we're seeking the public's help to identify
00:04:25
the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old cps dcs welfare building in the city of delphi that was abandoned
00:04:31
on the east side of county road 300 north next to the hoosier heartland highway between the hours of noon to five
00:04:39
on february 14 2017. if you were parked there or know who was parked there please contact the officers
00:04:46
at the command post at the delphi city building we are releasing additional portions of
00:04:55
the audio recording from that day please keep in mind the person talking is one person
00:05:05
and is the person on the bridge with the girls this is not two different people speaking
00:05:14
please listen to it very very carefully we are also releasing video recovered from libby's phone
00:05:24
this video has never before been previously released the video shows a suspect walking on the
00:05:31
bridge when you see the video watch the s watch the person's mannerisms as they walk
00:05:41
watch the mannerisms as he walks do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know
00:05:52
remember he is walking on the former railroad bridge because of the deteriorated condition of
00:05:59
the bridge the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties
00:06:05
during the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary
00:06:11
as of today the result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch which you
00:06:21
will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls
00:06:29
we also believe this person is from delphi currently or has previously lived here
00:06:37
visits delphi on a regular basis or works here we believe this person is currently
00:06:44
between the age range of 18 and 40. but might appear younger than his true age directly
00:06:54
to the killer who may be in this room we believe you are hiding in plain sight for more than two years
00:07:04
you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy but we have
00:07:12
we likely have interviewed you or someone close to you we know that this is about power to you
00:07:24
and you want to know what we know and one day you will the question to you what will those closest to you think of
00:07:38
they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls two children only a coward would do such a thing
00:07:47
we are confident that you have told someone what you have done or at the very least
00:07:55
they know because how different you are since the murders we try so hard to understand how a
00:08:04
person could do something like this to two child to two children i recently watched a movie called the
00:08:14
shack and there's also a book that talks so well about evil about death and about eternity
00:08:25
to the murderer i believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left and i can assure you
00:08:37
that how you left them in that woods is not it's not what they're experiencing today
00:08:50
to the family i hope that you all will give them some time because we're going to be asking that
00:09:00
there's no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks and i hope you understand why
00:09:09
the family found out about this about this information this morning i just want the family to know
00:09:20
that when i take my last breath on this earth i'll be thinking of them there's going to be a tremendous amount
00:09:28
of questions i know that i know that i'm never in my career have i stood in front of something like this
00:09:35
please be patient with us please uh we're just beginning we're we are just now beginning
00:09:44
and i can tell you on behalf of the sheriff and the police chief so many other partners
00:09:51
that have stood with us over this period of time that we will not stop directly to the killer
00:10:05
who may be in this room only a coward would do such a thing what will those closest to you think of
00:10:18
when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls only a cow wouldn't do such a thing
00:10:27
don't give up we will not stop [Music] all right me and the colonel are back in the garage talking with skip jansen
00:10:45
about his person of interest dp and we will not stop we've been working this case since the beginning
00:10:52
spending hours upon hours outside of the garage talking with people and that's how we
00:10:59
really got hooked up with skip and his person of interest there's so much to it that makes sense and so much
00:11:06
that is still confusing but one of the things that's confusing is why would they go with his sketch
00:11:14
above a sketch that they had beforehand i think i think it was a lot of it had to do what they saw on on the video they
00:11:20
thought maybe they saw it they saw an older guy and i think it's it's important remember that law enforcement
00:11:25
was really emphasizing you know about the younger face that you know pay attention to his what his body his moves
00:11:31
is all his all of that not not his face i think the the video is not a good representation of that
00:11:38
and but law enforcement early on thought they were looking at somebody who looked
00:11:41
more like what ended up being the first sketch than the second sketch yeah i think when you've seen the picture of bg
00:11:47
or you see the video of bg your mind goes towards an older gentleman you see the second sketch you go wow that is not
00:11:55
anything like i pictured this person to be way younger i think people still believe that you know i think they see
00:12:00
it in their mind that they that they see an older person they and they can't get
00:12:04
that they can't they can't change that they it's just kind of burned in their in
00:12:08
their brain yeah i still think people were baffled by this case because in 2019's press conference they released
00:12:15
the image of a way younger looking individual saying he's between 18 and 40. right well and that and at that
00:12:23
point that was when dp recanted his story and said that yeah maybe he didn't see that guy maybe he
00:12:30
saw flannel shirt guy because he realized that flannel shirt guy was in close proximity to where he was during
00:12:36
the time on the trails or said he was so but he you know but again the scarf to me is the big takeaway if he saw
00:12:43
somebody with a scarf that he claimed was bg then now you're saying that you may have
00:12:48
seen fsu was fsg wearing a scarf as well he would have had to have been i've never heard any evidence that fsu was
00:12:55
wearing a scarf that day so i mean again just something else that doesn't really
00:12:59
line up with what he's saying yeah he's he constantly is changing his story uh so confusing but
00:13:07
also the picture they released in 2019 the predominant feature to me is the hair and
00:13:13
there's rumors that he changed his appearance after that but but what is dp doing between 2017 and
00:13:21
2019 uh before that press conference oh i think that he thinks he's he's gotten away with he's scott friend he you've
00:13:27
got a you've got a uh sketch out there that looks nothing like him fbi said one of the things he this part might do is
00:13:34
change his appearance um well he wouldn't have any reason to change his appearance if the sketch didn't look
00:13:39
anything like him right he actually did change his appearance after the 2019 press conference and the new sketch came
00:13:46
out shaved his head grow a beard so that would fall in line more with what they were what they were talking about well i
00:13:51
also feel like at the 2019 press conference when they come out with the information about the vehicle and asking
00:13:58
for the driver it's almost like they know who they're talking about yeah i think i think there was a lot there were
00:14:03
probably questions about that vehicle and who was in that vehicle and you know when it was there and who drove it there
00:14:09
and all that originally and i think they probably led off with that because they
00:14:13
wanted him to know that they figured out how that all you know how it all went down and that they had
00:14:18
been lied to about that i think that i think that's one thing i think that's one thing that people are
00:14:23
misunderstanding about one of the things about the case is that law enforcement i
00:14:27
think was led astray for the first couple of years of this case because of all this because of all the misdirection
00:14:34
and false information they've admitted that there were alibis that didn't didn't add up
00:14:40
newspaper articles about it and so when you see that is that where you go hey here's this guy online he's
00:14:47
saying i'm i'm an eyewitness here's oh here's the people i was with oh nope nope that's not who i was with
00:14:55
us with some other people right so now we got a guy online saying i'm an eyewitness i was there but he's
00:15:01
changing his story but then his alibis quote unquote his alibis would be changing their story as well
00:15:09
and then you see that happening online and then you see this language being used by police is that what sparks you
00:15:16
to go i think this guy should be a person of interest absolutely yeah i mean you know
00:15:23
giving law enforcement false information there's a reason people do it i mean it's uh
00:15:28
if you come forward you're the expectation is you're telling the truth there's you know there's there's a
00:15:33
reason you're trying to send him down one path and so yeah that's to answer your question yeah that's exactly why i
00:15:38
looked into him as a person of interest so you think 2019 they're directly talking to your person of interest dp
00:15:47
can you explain that a little bit more i think i think a lot of things i think just about
00:15:51
everything they said in there you know the fact that somebody this guy had been has been following the case and that's
00:15:58
that's one another thing is that i think one of the reasons law enforcement has been so skittish about about releasing
00:16:04
stuff is not because they don't have anything or not because you know they're doing it for another reason
00:16:11
law enforcement isn't releasing information because they know this guy is following it and using that
00:16:16
information to his benefit okay that and that's that's pretty obvious so that's one of the things and i think that um
00:16:24
you know the once the release of the sketch was out there you know that everything changed this guy stopped this
00:16:30
guy was not talking anymore he uh you know didn't seem you know so eager to get it want to get his story out there
00:16:37
but i think everything they said in it was very pointed and at particularly at uh at one individual and i can't get
00:16:44
over the fact that after this press conference where they won they're turning in a new direction or taking a
00:16:50
new direction but they're pointing the whole conference to the killer this is calling out the killer
00:16:56
and then to have this person of interest change their appearance after the press
00:17:02
conference i have a real hard time getting over that yeah he yeah exactly and his his hair was uh you know i know
00:17:10
sketch is not a photo but his hair was would have been similar before he shaved it to what you what you saw in the
00:17:15
sketch when when do you do you know when he started pulling away from online chats and
00:17:22
not not long after not long after that i don't know the exact date but not long after the uh press conference you know
00:17:27
you mentioned you asked earlier about one of some of the things that were said i think that you know when they said
00:17:32
directly to the killer you know might be in this room you know we believe you're
00:17:35
hiding in plain sight and the part about you never thought we would shift gears to a different uh investigative strategy
00:17:43
right that that goes to what i said about i think he thought he was he got away with it you never you know
00:17:49
they knew that he knew there was another sketch but you know he never thought that they were going to change to that
00:17:54
and i think that was just i would think that was them making him aware that uh you know kind of the jig is up you know
00:18:01
they also said that you know they've likely interviewed him we know he went and talked to law enforcement yeah uh he
00:18:07
was making some statements about talking with law enforcement online he stayed online that he went there and talked to
00:18:13
law enforcement a couple of times and he said that he was there trying to help him that was his uh that was the word he
00:18:19
used he was just he was a good samaritan just trying to help out you know so again
00:18:25
changes the story he was there again changing the story multiple times but changing his appearance we're always
00:18:33
told to look out for that and then we have an eyewitness that is now lawyering up and pulling
00:18:42
away from social media he certainly hasn't been making any social media comments or anything like that like he
00:18:49
was early in the case well i heard his name brought up with a couple people that i've been
00:18:54
investigating the case with and back in the day he had his you could see everything on his social media you can
00:18:59
see his post you can see who he was friends with he seems to have very you know very much
00:19:05
so gone dark on the internet you know you can't find much about this individual you can't see anything you
00:19:11
can't see anything online about him at all it's almost like he went dark well and plus he's a he's an i.t person
00:19:18
he actually when he was a sophomore junior in high school he designed the county's website
00:19:24
yeah it seems like he has a talent in this field which you have told me personally that you think that's the
00:19:30
reason why there's been so much misinformation from the beginning maybe he had access to things
00:19:36
that other people didn't but is this possibly the older individual that one of them was talking to
00:19:44
online and and is he the reason for the scrubbing of the cell phone can you explain that a
00:19:51
little bit well she libby basically scrubbed her phone re-rebooted it restarted reset it said she had some
00:19:59
glitches maybe that's true maybe it's not maybe uh maybe she had been talking with somebody online certainly someone
00:20:06
with computer skills would know the reason to you know why you would why you would uh reset your phone like that
00:20:13
to get rid of any information or or any trail of people you've been talking with
00:20:19
well one of the things that i brought up to on one of our discussions is we know that snapchat photos were being
00:20:26
posted we know that one was posted at roughly i think 207 right i believe is the time
00:20:34
but yep there's no mention about did they take a couple pictures beforehand and post those
00:20:40
did they take a couple pictures after those and post those we're not privy to that information i'm
00:20:46
assuming if people were saying while they were walking on the bridge and talking and taking pictures
00:20:52
and they were at the the park for a while already i'm assuming that there was a couple
00:20:57
snapchats already uploaded but that doesn't matter if you are following them then you'd be able to do a search and
00:21:06
you would have seen their avatars at the park correct that's right yeah and basically if you're in delphi
00:21:16
even some of the furthest points you're talking about a 15 to 20 minute drive to get there
00:21:23
right so did this person of interest was he there like law enforcement says if that car
00:21:31
isn't connected to the killer at 12 or 1 o'clock maybe because maybe it was set up that way
00:21:38
or maybe it's a situation where the person was tracking them through snapchat yeah that's yeah it's very possible he
00:21:48
would uh uh and then you know like you said he would be just a minute's drive a short minutes drive away from being able
00:21:55
to to uh access the bridge from anywhere you know in that area so well we know that dp
00:22:03
knew their family they they knew that victims deep he never yeah yeah one of the things he says on on
00:22:10
social media is that he knew the girls and he had ridden the bus with him before i think he lived maybe half a
00:22:16
mile but uh admitted you know in the family yeah i don't know how well you know i
00:22:21
don't know how well they were different ages think dp at the time was 22 or 23. uh obviously he was you know seven or
00:22:28
eight years older than abby or libby would have been so but we believe that dp rode the bus with libby
00:22:35
lived within a couple miles from them also dp's sister-in-law was one of their softball coaches yeah dp's brother
00:22:47
quentin's wife was was libby saw one of the libby softball coaches why haven't we arrested if if everything that you
00:22:55
guys are saying is in fact true it doesn't seem like that difficult of a case and
00:23:03
where i'm going with that is a couple things okay so we can we can sit here and analyze and
00:23:09
question and speculate as to why libby reset her phone but what we do what i what i want to make sure that
00:23:17
we're really touching on is there are facts there are a lot of facts that are known
00:23:23
in this case it just takes a lot of different locations and a lot of different places to peel them from and
00:23:28
piece them together now in regards to her phone the the statement from libby's family was
00:23:36
that the phone was actually a factory reset that was conducted by tara her aunt right and the they
00:23:45
the phone required the reset because the phone was not working properly because it was an iphone 6 and everybody
00:23:51
remembers old phones they fill up very quickly with too much stuff and they have no memory left and then
00:23:58
they don't work at all and part of the reason why they had trouble locating the girls was that
00:24:04
there was apps you know find my phone and and things like that on on the phone but because of that factory reset those
00:24:13
apps had not been uploaded once again to the phone right so we we know that the factory reset happened
00:24:22
we know that tarot was the one according to libby's family was the one that conducted the
00:24:27
factory reset so that's where that's where i question a little bit how much was if we're if we're making if we're going
00:24:38
to make the leap and say that libby was hiding something you're mentioning the fact that she
00:24:45
asked for the factory reset no i'm not missing that fact obviously she she would have had to have
00:24:50
a conversation with somebody for it to be conducted she didn't do the factory reset because
00:24:56
she didn't know how to right yeah i think that i think again you know she would have lost everything
00:25:04
she lost all you know she she liked to take pictures and photographs i think she lost all of that
00:25:09
i think the the first question would have been you know if you're having a glitch how
00:25:14
do i say how do i save all my photos and all that kind of stuff i don't want to get rid of but what we've been told is
00:25:19
that she just asked for a reset i mean i'm not saying i'm not saying they're lying i'm not saying that they're lying
00:25:24
i'm saying that uh i think there's a reason for the reset maybe the other reasons
00:25:29
other than just a glitch some a girl that age should take all her photos she would lose all that i mean that seems uh
00:25:35
more problematic to me than and that factory reset happened 10 days before right that's right
00:25:41
the other thing that i do want to make sure that we bring up as well is that the family has gone on the record saying
00:25:46
that of course libby was on facebook snapchat twitter and instagram and her becky and mike
00:25:55
had her passwords as well as they were friends on all four yeah you know i don't know that
00:26:04
that's that the phone is a huge piece of evidence in this case i think it it may
00:26:10
explain the you know the fact that she that's somebody that somebody knew she was
00:26:14
going to be there that day or or and she had been uh speaking with someone but i don't know that that you
00:26:20
know i don't because i don't think it there's anything uh absolute about it i don't think you can draw anything
00:26:25
absolute coming out you know because he you know he this guy's admitted he knew her admit it you know so it's not like
00:26:32
he was uh he was that secret about that yeah i believe at one point he was friends with
00:26:37
libby on facebook yeah so i you know i i think again i think nick's point is very valid
00:26:45
it's like well if you just believe everything she said she reset this phone because there was a
00:26:51
glitch she still she would have still had to do all that stuff and maybe she said look this phone is constantly not
00:26:57
working i don't care if it saves any of the stuff i just want my phone to work so yeah and i want to be clear here i'm
00:27:03
not challenging either one of you guys i'm just what i'm pointing out or challenging the theory itself i mean
00:27:09
there could be any mil there could be a million reasons why she wanted the there could be a million reasons why she
00:27:15
wanted the phone reset all i'm trying to do as we lay out this theory is there again there are known facts or
00:27:23
statements from the family and from other individuals and i want to make sure that we're presenting that from all
00:27:29
sides so we're throwing speculation here it's it's it's more than fair to do so because that's all we're left with at
00:27:37
this point but along the way i am going to remind of of of what few facts that we
00:27:42
do know to be or statements from the family i just want to make sure that i'm presenting those as we go because it'd
00:27:48
be irresponsible to not do so uh and then the the statement in regard to libby's phone
00:27:55
from law enforcement is that uh facebook snapchat twitter instagram and all online contacts were
00:28:03
[Music] things all of that was accessed analyzed and all online contacts tracked down and
00:28:10
interviewed the other thing when we talk about technology that's bizarre here in
00:28:14
this case that we don't have an arrest is that we know that isp indiana state police did subpoena
00:28:22
the phone records for any phone that pinged within a five mile radius of the monan high bridge
00:28:29
during that time frame that day so they've got a a long list of of phones that they know to have been in
00:28:38
that area at that time yeah that'd be another reason for someone to come come forward knowing
00:28:43
their phone and ping there i mean if my phone if i knew my phone was anywhere near there and it pinged there i'd come
00:28:48
forward too i'd just be that that goes again toward why would you come forward right but
00:28:54
the reason why i'm going down this path is because it's sounding more and more to me like this is not a
00:29:03
random i'm looking for any type of victim here at the trail or near the bridge it sounds it's sounding more and more to
00:29:12
me like this that one or both of these girls were targeted and yeah in my opinion it wasn't good
00:29:20
definitely targeted and for it to go down that day in this manner the perpetrator needs to know that
00:29:27
they're going to be there that day and the phone is one way that he could have known as the captain has
00:29:34
pointed out now the difficult thing to hear also is the [Music] um statement from law enforcement in
00:29:44
regards to additional audio that was uh found on the phone from that video and to be clear there's only one
00:29:55
video the the picture we have is from the video the audio we have is from that video there was one video as far as
00:30:02
what we've been told by law enforcement and the additional audio is briefly described as
00:30:10
typical girl talk but also discussing the man and where they could be going again it gets a little tricky to me if
00:30:20
they if one of them or both of them may have known the suspect right i mean don't don't they say his name or or give
00:30:32
i mean there's there's a whole mountain of reasons why we don't have somebody in
00:30:36
handcuffs waiting on a trial right now yeah well in my opinion to be honest with you
00:30:42
is the first two years of the uh again carter says in the press conference we're just beginning we're just now
00:30:49
beginning okay that tells me let's throw away the first two years somebody duped law enforcement
00:30:55
into believing something that we went down the wrong path yeah they went down the wrong path and gave
00:31:00
this guy two years to cover every track to get rid of every piece of evidence to get his story right to follow the
00:31:09
case which they have uh talked about numerous times that they they know this guy is keeping up with
00:31:16
the case following it and uh so that first two years plus another thing that hasn't been
00:31:25
discussed is if this guy is brought in as a witness okay they're gonna they possibly have
00:31:31
some miranda issues this guy wasn't read his rights before he uh start before he just we know when
00:31:37
he said he went in to help law enforcement that you know is that is that are they
00:31:42
going to have did they does the district attorney think realize that and does law
00:31:46
enforcement or the police realize that the isp and and carroll county realized that hey we may have some miranda
00:31:52
problems because this guy was interviewed as a witness and anything he said uh whether we think it's a lie or not
00:31:58
can't be used because he wasn't read his rights that's very interesting [Music] [Music]
00:32:31
[Music] [Music] well and one of the things that you talked about is well why would
00:32:45
they go with dp's version of the sketch as opposed to somebody else's and it could be the small town factor dp
00:32:54
comes from um prominent family and you think that played into some of their decisions or also the fact that he
00:33:03
did work for the county when he was in high school yeah he like i said he designed the uh
00:33:10
uh county website and yeah i think that i think again i think the the uh small town aspect in this case can't be
00:33:17
overplayed i mean i think it's just it's i think it's huge and how small town people feel and if law enforcement
00:33:25
saw a kid coming from a prominent family who everybody knows who says he's a witness there's no reason for them not
00:33:30
to believe it and i think in 2018 when the when the georgia bureau of investigation got involved because
00:33:37
they wanted to they were doing a peer review and wanted a fresh set of eyes i think that's probably the time that
00:33:43
they realized something doesn't add up with these stories something doesn't add up with your witness story something
00:33:47
didn't add up about the vehicle something doesn't add up about the timeline and they were able to take the bias and the
00:33:55
prejudice out of it that the local guys may have had that hey it couldn't be this guy
00:34:00
because like it or not that happens i mean all law enforcement makes mistakes just like everybody else you know
00:34:06
they're human and when the gbi came in they were able to take the bias out of it and
00:34:12
i think that's when they realized that hey maybe the stories that we've been told
00:34:20
we've been led down the wrong path we've been uh we've been lied to and that's and that's why then you know not shortly
00:34:25
thereafter at the beginning of 2019 in april they do the press conference and release the new sketch escape again a
00:34:32
sketch they had two three or four days after the murders you know and again they i think they released the first one
00:34:39
because the older sketch because they thought that was more along the lines of what they were seeing on the video and
00:34:47
they had witnesses who said they saw him so that that seems like the likely that
00:34:53
seems like the obvious way to go right is to release that one that's the guy when the gbi came in and they looked
00:34:58
over everything they realized hey we you know things aren't the way they seem and
00:35:04
that sketch that we had originally is more in line with who we think this guy is and i i wonder if that
00:35:14
at that point did did they go over multiple interviews or did they re because because carter had said this multiple
00:35:24
times when we you know run out of leads we go back to the beginning and that's right
00:35:29
that's right that's a good point yep when they went back to the beginning and maybe
00:35:34
i mean we have online dp saying that i've talked to law enforcement multiple times well is it right was it the second
00:35:41
time that they talked to you that your story didn't make sense with your first story
00:35:45
or that well cheyenne's story didn't match your story or cheryl's story didn't match her story or shelby hicks's
00:35:52
story didn't match her story right yeah i think i think that the time the timeline is the most important thing
00:35:59
because again i go back to what i said originally about the perp not wanting to be under that bridge between 2 30 and 3
00:36:04
30. you know dp admitted to a source that he was the reason that uh he was part of the arguing couple
00:36:15
okay and the reason the reason for that was he explained it as that they explained
00:36:20
away why the girl he was with didn't see bg they said they ran into bg or bg walked past him the girl he was with
00:36:27
didn't see her and the reason was because they were arguing okay now if you're part of the arguing couple and
00:36:34
derek runs into fsg around 320 and he's coming from the high bridge and tells derek
00:36:41
that he had just heard an arguing couple under the bridge but just before that puts
00:36:48
arguing couple guy under that bridge around three o'clock right but that's what he said online
00:36:55
but what is he saying to law enforcement we don't know right right no i'm part of arguing couple well who's
00:37:02
the girl you're with well it was my fiance and they go talk to her and she goes i wasn't there yeah well it was
00:37:08
this girl because then that would mean basically the first time they ever talked to him
00:37:15
uh suspicious right but i think that's really why he jumps out to me is when he's constantly changing his stories
00:37:23
online and you can actually see what he posted and go well that doesn't make any
00:37:28
sense with the last thing he posted and this guy is also claiming to be there also claiming to be an eyewitness
00:37:35
but like you said okay i'm part of arguing couple that's under the bridge about three o'clock
00:37:41
anything under the bridge to me as part of the crime scene because we have we have the audio clip of them saying
00:37:48
of of the murderer saying guys down the hill correct and we know that uh the most likely way they got to where
00:37:58
they ended up uh where they were found would have been down the hill by under the bridge
00:38:07
uh you know go down across that private drive over the creek and then to the final spot um so yeah he would have
00:38:13
known definitely that you know they were definitely known he was there at that time or he would definitely have
00:38:19
been there at that time if he's admitting to being a arguing couple maybe maybe that was the
00:38:28
statement that was problematic in terms of you know hey you know i used it to explain away why
00:38:36
the girl didn't see it but it's backfired because of what fsg and and also may tie into why he says
00:38:44
why he recanted about the original and said maybe he thought he saw fsg he's trying you know because he knows
00:38:50
that puts him there in that spot and again that's the last place the park wants to be
00:38:56
is near that bridge under that bridge between 230 and 3 30. so one thing i'm a little unclear on of here skip is the uh
00:39:04
regardless of what girl he what woman he claims he was there with has this woman
00:39:09
been identified and saying that they were there with dp that day she hasn't come out publicly no
00:39:17
now what's been said like you know like the captain said what's been talked about to law enforcement i don't know
00:39:21
but [ __ ] nobody's publicly come out and said they were with dp that day okay so if he is if he was in fact there
00:39:29
by himself that seems a possibility we don't have anybody stating i was the person he claimed to have been
00:39:38
there with in either story correct cause both stories have him with somebody else correct
00:39:45
but when cheyenne sees him is he with somebody she says he's with yeah she's his one
00:39:51
corroborating but again there's nobody there to that says they saw her we don't know
00:39:57
that she was there and her story's changed um multiple times you know her her story
00:40:04
carries a little weight because of the posting of that picture but if you look at it yeah yeah you'd have to you'd have
00:40:09
to uh decide for yourself whether you think the legitimacy of that photo i mean i'm not saying it's not it's a real
00:40:15
photo i'm not we don't we don't know 100 everything about it uh she said she went
00:40:20
there to take photos that day and she she showed just a couple of pictures i mean what you know
00:40:26
seems like you'd take it you would take a lot if you went there to take photos well there was stuff that was wrong with
00:40:31
the time stamps too right yeah her the time stamp said an hour difference than what she claimed to us see i thought she
00:40:39
had posted something she did she just that was the problem it didn't it did that time didn't line up with what the
00:40:44
time stamp said well because at some point she's posting from across the bridge close to the murder scene yes from the
00:40:52
south side yeah i think you know one of the one of the things that i think people have
00:40:56
questions about is is well why didn't they you know why didn't they grill him and all that kind of stuff again
00:41:01
early on law enforcement was looking for rsos they had there was a serial killer
00:41:08
theory possibly fbi is putting out flyers all over the country they were going down
00:41:15
a totally different road they were they were looking for an older guy possibly a like i said a serial killer
00:41:21
sexual offender they weren't looking for you know some someone in their 20s locally
00:41:28
and so the folks of the investigation again again that's why carter said we're just now beginning in the 2019 press
00:41:35
conference is because the information that they gathered over that period of time
00:41:40
changed and that's why the emphasis was on he's local he's younger and we have a sketch of him what is
00:41:48
cheyenne's motivation for pretending to be there that day i don't know 100 i don't i don't uh i wouldn't
00:41:57
even really venture to guess what somebody reason somebody gives somebody an alibi if people do it all
00:42:02
the time they do it for love fear money well wait a second hang on because the her motivation for pretending to be
00:42:10
there that day would be giving dp an alibi if in fact that's not been made clear to anybody
00:42:16
listening yet that that so your your thought is that cheyenne was with dp that day
00:42:23
uh no no i don't know i don't again until until somebody verifies that they saw her there i i don't know that she was
00:42:31
there at all but what would be her motivation for pretending to be there uh like i said it could be in numerous
00:42:38
things you know people people provide alibis for other people all the time yeah she
00:42:43
she could have been doing it as a as uh it may have been innocently at first it may have been
00:42:48
you know she he thought she he needed and he knew he needed an alibi but if he went to law enforcement and say he was
00:42:53
there somebody's got to play somebody's got to say yeah i saw him there so you can't go and say can't put himself in
00:42:59
the middle of the crime scene so he puts himself at a different spot but that's got to be corroborated he knows that
00:43:04
so but but what's weird to me about dp being there and and like again cheyenne is just the fact that
00:43:14
there's nobody that is saying that we saw him there i mean he's admitting to be being there
00:43:19
so we can assume he's there right but nobody is saying that they saw him where their story hasn't changed or
00:43:27
hasn't been contradicted in some way that's right that's exactly right i'm getting a little lost here because but
00:43:35
but i agree with nick where it's like okay but so her stories don't line up but why would she even
00:43:41
say at all that she was there why would she say that she saw him at all i mean again he could it could have been
00:43:49
he could have coerced her for whatever reason and you know into believing yeah look he he
00:43:55
could he would tell any could tell him but hey i was there but i needed somebody to say i was there you know i
00:44:00
didn't it wasn't me look at the video that's not me obviously um and they would buy that you know and so uh
00:44:09
she may she may give him an alibi you know just doing it innocently i don't know that that would still be
00:44:14
the case um i would think that kind of be hard to believe that would still be the case but uh
00:44:19
but uh that's that could be a possible reason any of anybody that was giving him an
00:44:27
alibi could have been given out by originally didn't realize what they were giving an alibi for right
00:44:33
that's fair i'm just i'm just pointing out that we're saying on what with one hand that
00:44:39
if dp says he was there then we should believe that to be true but if cheyenne says she was there we shouldn't believe
00:44:45
it to be true or we should question well what i think we should question more is
00:44:49
not saying so much whether or not she was there but what we do know is based off what she has told people online
00:44:57
and what the these posts and these other things that the timeline is very contradicted so i would say i go to for
00:45:06
as far to say dp has said he's there he said he's eyewitness cheyenne has come forward and
00:45:13
told talked to a bunch of sources online and said that she was an eyewitness not
00:45:18
to bridge guy but that she saw tp there right right i i questioned more her timeline
00:45:27
and so so if she says well i saw a dp there okay you saw dp there and it doesn't even matter if you saw
00:45:36
him with a girl because if she saw him at two o'clock with a girl and it's at a distance
00:45:44
we don't know if that's not libby or abby right we don't know where she's saying
00:45:49
that she saw him at right so that's all i'm saying is that we know that her story has shifted and
00:45:55
morphed so i just don't i i don't even know if she's essentially lying for dp i think she might just be you know oh
00:46:05
why yeah i saw him at three but really it was four or maybe it was two we don't know well ask yourself
00:46:14
why she was talking publicly anyway i mean she didn't see bg never claimed to cbg so
00:46:21
her uh basically her existence in the case uh is explaining who she saw that day
00:46:30
so she's coming forward and saying who she saw she she didn't see the bridge guys so she offers nothing in
00:46:36
terms of a witness to seeing the guy who you know but she is saying oh and she's trying to you know she's
00:46:43
putting people in certain places oh i saw this guy and he was with this girl and i saw a girl that i didn't know was
00:46:48
going to be there um so for me that that's that's best she's doing is just is uh
00:46:56
witnessing witnesses yeah but she also could be just coming online because there's such a fascination with this
00:47:04
case yeah and that i think i think that she was talking she started talking though
00:47:09
early before the case ever got to a point where it was had gotten crazy like this
00:47:15
but but have i been bamboozled because the information i have says that cheyenne posted a picture
00:47:21
that afternoon she did yeah so the white is that one would be the one she was there i mean that's
00:47:28
that's what i'm trying to get to here we're circling around this a lot about whether she was there or not but that
00:47:34
doesn't that posting of the picture add to credibility of her physically being there that afternoon
00:47:43
maybe maybe not i mean the picture didn't look like it was even from the same day
00:47:48
as a matter of fact it looked like what i was asking yeah it looked like it had fog in it it also
00:47:54
um the time stamp that originally she showed on the picture didn't line up when she when she said she was there
00:48:02
she possibly could have been there could have been early or whatever um but even
00:48:06
even if it wasn't let's say she's off by an hour let's say she's off by seven hours i'm not really i don't really care
00:48:12
about that what i'm what i'm trying to point out is that we know she posted a picture that afternoon right claiming to
00:48:19
be there what i'm getting at is for for someone to go oh well i just want to be a part
00:48:24
of this it gets a little difficult to you can't go back in time and post that picture to add to your credibility later
00:48:32
that you were in fact there because that afternoon nobody knows what had happened
00:48:37
it's not an event yet it's not it's nothing yet yeah um we don't know until that evening that they're in fact
00:48:43
missing we don't know until brother killer noon the next day that they were killed that they were killed
00:48:49
or the killer right right but we need to say that here rather than dance around it you know we
00:48:55
we need to be presenting a direct story with timeline and narrative uh for this series yeah she she offered up the photo
00:49:03
as as as proof that she was there because this isn't the first time anybody's questioned her story and not making
00:49:09
sense yeah but i think what nick is trying to point out is yeah she offered up a photo of proof but didn't she also
00:49:17
post that photo the day of the murders on her social media uh she posted she said she posted it um
00:49:25
yeah i think maybe i think that was the one where the time frame was just or the
00:49:28
time stamp was off again she's she she did come a fortnight but she her story is always made sense
00:49:35
where she says she is at a certain time has never made sense um again i go back to that why you know
00:49:42
you're coming forward but why are you telling why are you saying things that don't add up and and and
00:49:48
changing your story and all that i don't i don't understand that yeah the story's
00:49:52
not making sense so many people having multiple contradicting stories when you have
00:49:58
three stories only one of them can be true why would you protect somebody that murdered a 13 and 14 year old girl
00:50:07
absolutely makes no sense it makes you as big of a piece of [ __ ] as the murderer
00:50:17
[Music] what are your thoughts on skips theory of his person of interest we want to hear from you at
00:50:31
truecrimegarage.com and click on the blog and then join us back here for part three here in the
00:50:38
garage until then be good be kind and don't let [Music] you