00:00:00
thank you [Music] [Music] directly to the killer who may be in this room only a coward can do such a thing
00:01:03
what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls
00:01:12
only a cow wouldn't do such a thing don't give up we will not stop skip give us give me one more time sorry if you
00:01:29
already did but I don't think we have heard it yet the and I know the story has changed a couple times but what is
00:01:34
Cheyenne saying she she arrived parked where walked to where and we know that at 3 49 according to her story she's
00:01:43
posting a picture online that she says she took that day yeah she said she got there at 2 50.
00:01:50
um originally said 350 but that again she said she got there at 250. said that she ran into a girl she was with or knew
00:01:59
around that had that had gotten there about 2 30. and that girl's name is that girl's name is believed to be Cheryl
00:02:07
laufler okay and uh they went to the other side of the bridge was around the bridge she said the picture was
00:02:13
supposedly taken around three o'clock the girl she knows goes with her yes and the pic the picture was taken around
00:02:20
three o'clock well she's on the bridge at three o'clock how did she not hear the girls FSG was just coming from the
00:02:26
bridge when he saw Derek about 3 15 320 said heard a couple arguing under the bridge did she not hear that
00:02:33
she's standing right on the bridge at three o'clock yeah and that makes absolutely no sense because she'd have a
00:02:38
clear sight to the crime scene and she would obviously be able to hear something she claims not to hear or see
00:02:45
anything I mean she's on the she's on the bridge in question I mean I don't I don't um I don't understand sound travel
00:02:51
is usually pretty well in an area like that you know in a hollow where there's where there's water and FSG
00:02:57
we don't know if he says he saw Cheyenne or not he never says he said he's never said he
00:03:02
saw Cheyenne okay that doesn't mean that that doesn't mean that he didn't tell law enforcement that he saw her but it
00:03:08
but as far as we know we have no no statement of him saying that he witnessed her or saw her and another
00:03:15
young woman on the bridge right yeah we only we only know about his statement from from Derek what are your top five
00:03:22
reasons to make DP the number one person of interest um he's uh changed his story
00:03:30
he uh looks like the second sketch he is uh he knew the girls he uh was at the crime scene the day of the murders
00:03:40
admittedly he's again he's he's changed stories multiple times he he injected himself into the case
00:03:50
he changed his appearance you know that and I'm going by things that that you know the uh
00:03:56
law enforcement said that to look out for a bridge guy you know so those would be those would be the things I think
00:04:03
that you know the five or six things like you asked I agree him putting himself at the scene is very difficult
00:04:08
uh that's a that's a very that in itself is a hurdle I mean it works that way with every case the
00:04:16
person who finds the body the last person to see a person those are always suspects uh and you lump those two in
00:04:22
with the same high probability that you would a boyfriend a husband or anybody on their Inner Circle so that that's of
00:04:30
Interest he's there we you know by his own words he is there and then we have someone else who says he was there as
00:04:40
well sounds like we're questioning her information but be that as it may it sounds like he he was there second
00:04:48
yes his story changing is is difficult why why put yourself there and then change your story unless it was
00:04:56
necessary to uh you know keep keep some kind of false story going but I do want to throw out
00:05:06
that eyewitnesses are known to lie to law enforcement if they need to protect themselves and if he was at that park or
00:05:15
meeting somebody at that Park to to have an affair to me that's reason to believe
00:05:21
that that somebody would lie to law enforcement possibly but and I get what you're saying Captain you're you're
00:05:28
absolutely right about that but my my hunch here would be if if behind closed doors they
00:05:36
thought that they're questioning his story they're going to say look we're investigating a double homicide
00:05:44
here we don't care if you were down there smoking a doobie or meat hooking up with some girl on the side we don't
00:05:52
we need to know what actually happened yeah and why you were there because if not then you're you're at the top of our
00:06:00
list and that's where I go and I agree with you skip I I 100 percent where it does appear and I'm going off of the
00:06:09
words that were used by Doug Carter uh in the April 2019 press conference according to what he's saying they were
00:06:16
absolutely shifting gears they had shift gears sometime before that press conference and uh now they were happy to
00:06:22
announce it to the world specifically to the killer himself so you're right something had to have happened or they
00:06:29
went down the wrong path misguided misled at some point early in the vest investigation or at least prior to April
00:06:37
uh 2019 where where I have um more questions is that the the things that the things that could lead you to
00:06:48
DP even early on they're all there for you it's not difficult if what if what we're saying
00:06:57
or what we're speculating is in fact true it's not difficult to see a connection
00:07:03
here uh he he knows one of the victims on Facebook says he knows the victims maybe personally or acquaintances or
00:07:12
somehow lives lives near there he's he's there and and he has a person that's supposedly with him that we don't know
00:07:21
who that person is we can't we nobody we don't have any information stating that
00:07:26
there was an actual person with him I what I'm getting at is and I get what everybody's saying about the small town
00:07:33
Factor but this I mean delphi's City police have been involved Carroll County has been involved the sheriff's
00:07:40
department they Leslie claims that they're the lead on the on the case if you had to pick one but ISP is there and
00:07:49
the FBI are there very very quickly and the FBI and I don't think even Indiana State Police are going to get bamboozled
00:07:57
by somebody that's well to do in a in a little town you know we've had uh early on in this investigation per Doug Carter
00:08:05
his words are that over 150 officers have touched this case in some form or fashion and that's throughout the state
00:08:13
of Indiana the other thing I want to ask you about Skip is the this was new information to me uh you
00:08:20
you said gbi was involved in the investigation correct yeah in 2018. and clarify I'm not questioning that I just
00:08:28
had not heard it tell the listeners and me why gbi was involved again because that's that's the Jer the I'm assuming
00:08:36
you're mentioned talking about the Georgia Bureau of Investigation yes that's correct
00:08:41
um It's Not Unusual for law enforcement to bring in another group as for a peer review if they are if just if the case
00:08:49
is not developing like they thought and uh just a fresh set of eyes they brought
00:08:54
them in for that and it wasn't like I said they came in and did uh looked at it looked at it from
00:09:02
like it was a brand new case looked at everything from the beginning you know left and uh not long after that then
00:09:08
that's when the press conference was when they changed gears uh so I think you know my point is is that if they
00:09:15
came in with fresh set of eyes and and they may they may have taken the bias out of the investigation that hey you
00:09:21
guys have been looking for the wrong guy because you're looking for rsos and serial killers if you're looking for the
00:09:26
guy that what you think uh he looks like in this video and and in the sketch when the fact is
00:09:35
he may not be you know and and uh that's why that's why that's uh they I don't know how exactly how long they
00:09:44
were there or were involved with it um I just know it was in in 2018 maybe up until even early 2019 but that it's not
00:09:53
unusual to bring somebody in like that the one thing that did change though for the state of Indiana
00:10:01
not just for this investigation but others I believe it was in 2018 that the state started collecting
00:10:10
uh those convicted of a felony can uh collecting their DNA yeah and so and that's one thing that I
00:10:18
think is a little unclear as far as the Nationwide concept of what's going on in
00:10:25
Delphi and the investigation itself is you know people keep saying well if they've got DNA why didn't they pick up
00:10:32
their guy they he you know he would be one he has to be in a certain database right like it's not just uh if if you
00:10:40
have DNA but nothing to match it to you're not going to find the person that you don't you don't punch it into your
00:10:45
DNA machine and it spits out a name that says oh you want to go look for the crispy Colonel he's somewhere in
00:10:50
Columbus and here's his phone number that's not the way it works they they get a DNA profile and if there's nothing
00:10:56
to match it to there's nowhere to go and yeah one thing that definitely changed from from the information I've collected
00:11:04
and I you know I'm I'm fallible like anybody else but uh this in 2018 is when they made that mandatory that if you're
00:11:14
convicted of a felony in the state of Indiana you submit your DNA so if Bridge guy
00:11:20
whoever he may be has a felony or sexual assault or anything that you know rape something
00:11:29
in the state of Indiana prior to killing the two girls on in 2017 he likely isn't in their debt any of
00:11:40
their databases yeah and one thing law enforcement said also is that you know it appears this guy hasn't committed any
00:11:46
crime so that's right that tells me that maybe the evidence they have with the partial
00:11:53
fingerprint or the DNA doesn't have enough markers maybe they don't have enough to identify maybe they maybe they
00:12:00
have enough to rule out but not identify right and you have because you have multiple agencies working this case and
00:12:09
yes they're working hand in hand and they're working together and I and I do think that they've done a lot of good
00:12:13
work even though we sit here and and speculate as to who may have done this and why it's not been solved all these
00:12:20
years later you know you have one agency that says yeah we do have fingerprints and we do have DNA in this case and but
00:12:27
then when another agency is interviewed they're a little more clear saying yeah if we do have that we just don't know if
00:12:35
it's suspect DNA or suspect fingerprints we know that we have fingerprints and DNA that does not belong to Abby or
00:12:42
Libby that was found at or near the where we found the bodies uh we just we can't say until somebody's arrested and
00:12:50
charged we can't say if it belongs to the killer or not yeah and I think again I think the time frame plays a lot into
00:12:56
that about when when that question was answered because I think they were a little more forthcoming early on but I
00:13:03
think once they run once they realize that this guy has this guy follows the case may is involved maybe even social
00:13:10
media including forums and things that about the case listens to stuff like this I think
00:13:17
that's when that's when they decided to shut it down because they didn't want they didn't they don't I think they
00:13:22
believed that he has been doing that all along and was possibly the reason for changing stories
00:13:29
is because he was getting information that they were putting out and changing to whatever you know him you know was
00:13:37
whatever was to his benefit so they shut up they say they just shut all the information down
00:13:43
and I don't blame them and and going back to you know law enforcement I think they've done a great job I think I know
00:13:48
there's a lot of people out there who say oh law enforcement doesn't have anything and and they've done a terrible
00:13:53
job they screwed it up totally I don't think that at all uh do I think the mistake was I think
00:13:59
yeah I think I think the mistake they've admitted Tobe said mistakes have been made we you know try to rush to to solve
00:14:07
this he also said that they didn't identify an individual as a suspect early on to me
00:14:17
that's a pretty telling statement yeah that's basically saying that we identified them as something else other
00:14:22
than a suspect exactly well and to to really kind of credit the work that they've been doing
00:14:30
you know we did say or skip you said they may have been told by gbi hey you've been you've been looking in the
00:14:39
wrong direction you've been looking for a serial killer or a Serial offender or uh sexual predator and uh but but to to
00:14:49
be clear and to to credit ISP and those involved they didn't seek out Daniel Nations Daniel Nations be he
00:14:59
came onto their radar because of you know violent illegal activities that he has uh been doing and then they're
00:15:06
going oh by the way he was he was here uh at that time and and should be somebody that should be uh definitely
00:15:14
looked at and I I one thing that I really get a little angry about uh in this case and some people's perception
00:15:23
of the investigation itself I've heard several people talk about Tobe lessenby like he's some kind of Don
00:15:31
Knotts Sheriff out of uh Mayberry and that's not the vibe I get at all I've uh I've I get their County newspaper he has
00:15:41
a weekly column in there that discusses different uh pieces and parts of law enforcement and the job that they do as
00:15:49
sheriffs as the the Protectors of Carroll County uh he's very much dialed in I I wish people would would open up
00:15:57
their minds a little bit and um toad lessenby to me comes off Skip and maybe you'll agree with me and
00:16:05
I I know the captain does but he comes off to me as somebody that wants to say more to the public about the case the
00:16:12
evidence and the investigation but in being respectful with the people and agencies that they have partnered with
00:16:19
in this investigation I think he's politely holding back yeah I would agree 100 I think I I
00:16:27
always think about the the uh the statement he made about you know I know that voice who is that you know
00:16:35
um that was that to me that was uh it seemed like he wanted to say more there you know I think whether it's whether
00:16:44
it's saying things debate the sky or or whatever it is I agree with you I think uh I I just don't understand the people
00:16:51
who say you know who who rip law enforcement for um they got it let's see look if they
00:16:57
got if they got LED astray by somebody and there's uh that's not the worst thing that's ever happened I can promise
00:17:03
you you know and they and that's why again I go back to Carter saying at the 2008 press conference that we're just
00:17:08
beginning I think that they realize that all that stuff they had Learned was all
00:17:12
based on false information um and so going forward here's our new guy here's the car we believe he was in
00:17:22
we believe he's definitely local and that go and that and that's in debt in in direct contrast with what they what
00:17:28
they said originally you know I mean why would you be putting Billboards all over
00:17:32
the country if you thought the guy was local they were just looking for the wrong guy
00:17:37
now why was that I think I know but other people have you know other people have opinions as well but they
00:17:45
were they were looking for the wrong guy and now they're now I believe they they're zeroed in on who they own who
00:17:52
they should be well and I think that there was a chance that they were you know with the um the the businesses and
00:17:58
the the traffic through that area would lead them to because when when you've worked let's say you've worked in
00:18:06
Carroll County Law Enforcement your whole Adult Career a child abduction murder is one half of
00:18:13
one percent of the homicides each year in this country that very rare so most most law enforcement uh officers and
00:18:24
even an agency as a whole you could have a 20 30-year career and never experience it never be involved in
00:18:32
an investigation like that and if you know if I woke up tomorrow and there never was another child abduction
00:18:38
homicide ever again praise God but um it's it's a rare crime and I think that your the gut reaction of most people
00:18:48
regardless of Delphi Carroll County Indiana or Columbus Ohio the Florida Panhandle or Texas or California
00:18:56
regardless of where you're talking about other than like New York City or Los Angeles or Chicago most people the gut
00:19:03
reaction is it it had to be somebody that came in and did this to us did this to one of us and left and you're exactly
00:19:12
right I mean it was the next day as soon as they knew as soon as they found the girls at noon
00:19:18
and the the release from police has always been we knew we knew very quickly their words were very
00:19:27
quickly I have to believe you could replace that with immediately that this was a homicide and what backs that up is
00:19:37
that within that hour three three uh roadblock checkpoints are set up at least three that I found where
00:19:47
they're interviewing drivers and passengers and stopping vehicles and one of the statements they had was that that
00:19:54
day they uh spoke to at least 600 people in cars yeah and you're right and that they were
00:20:01
looking for someone that would want to leave the area that may not may have just came into the area days before now
00:20:08
uh one thing that we've not touched on on True Crime garage yet and we've covered this case a bunch and Skip again
00:20:14
thank you for your time today talking with us about this case again is in regards to that nationwide manhunt
00:20:24
which until the guy's caught it's always going to be a nationwide manhunt but in
00:20:27
regards to those Billboards one thing that I found incredibly interesting was that on on the Billboards that were
00:20:34
first put up of the picture of of bridge guy and one thing we I like to underline too when we
00:20:40
talk about the the picture of bridge guy that is the best photo that is the best
00:20:45
video that we have of bridge guy so to think otherwise is is silliness but they were posting the picture of bridge
00:20:53
guy on these Billboards and early on it said you know do you know this man last seen
00:21:02
February 13 2017 2 30 P.M which I find to be incredibly interesting because we know the Snapchat
00:21:10
photo was posted there were two Captain asked if there you know if they were taking more photos or whatnot police
00:21:17
would know that they found Libby's phones they've analyzed the family would know that but that that has never been
00:21:23
released so we people just speculate about that and and so we know that she posted two
00:21:30
photos and the stamp that we get on those is 207 pm and they would know based off of the video from finding her
00:21:41
phone and analyzing the phone when the video was taken and we've already said based off of uh technology what what it
00:21:48
tells us in regards to the sun and the the bridge and the shadows and whatnot it's believed that the Abduction of the
00:21:56
girls took place between 220 and 2 40 p.m that afternoon very interestingly enough those
00:22:04
Billboards say 2 30 p.m I almost have to wonder is is the time stamp on that video or on
00:22:11
her phone of that video 2 30 P.M when he's last seen on the video because the other statement we have is from I
00:22:19
believe it's from Anna who is uh Abby's mother that says you know Becky Mike and Anna
00:22:28
watched they were allowed to watch and hear the video and Anna says that she could hear audio
00:22:36
after there was she could no longer see anything so at some point that video goes It goes
00:22:43
dark it's it's just recording Blackness maybe it's you know doc maybe Libby's holding
00:22:49
it right up against her leg maybe she put it in a pocket um as Bridge guy got closer but there
00:22:56
was audio that could be heard and that's where we get the down the hill from as well so I wonder if that video is
00:23:03
and they they put 2 30 p.m because they that's the time stamp of that video that's a
00:23:10
that's a good point um and would make sense you know because when the the uh picture was uh put up at
00:23:17
207 they weren't all the way across the bridge I think they were about maybe two-thirds or about halfway so it would
00:23:23
have taken them a little and you don't see you don't see him in the background coming yet so
00:23:27
it would have made sense that they would have kept walking going back toward the
00:23:31
end of the bridge because they were at the end of the bridge when they were filming him uh so that would make sense
00:23:35
time wise also um makes sense one of the reasons I said 230 to 3 30 underneath that bridge
00:23:42
because from what I gather from this guy who I locally I know who said that they
00:23:47
that law enforcement knows that BG was around 20 minutes after Derek had gotten there so if they know that then they
00:23:55
know he was around till about 3 35 approximately um so say that again say that again that
00:24:02
law enforcement knows he's on there were several things he told me that everybody
00:24:06
wasn't privy to one of the things was that they know law enforcement knows BG was there until 20 minutes after Derek
00:24:12
had had gotten there so he got there about 3 15 that puts BG there till 335. now he didn't explain how they know that
00:24:20
I'm a guess I'm guessing it probably had something to do with them seeing him leave at us you know because if you
00:24:27
remember Earl early on there was a law enforcement asked if anybody saw anybody walking along uh the Hoosier Heartland
00:24:35
Highway uh that afternoon with a duffel bag Well yeah if you parked at the CPS building and if you even if you left the
00:24:45
bridge and went through the woods and and exited there you the the the CPS building sits right
00:24:51
in between Highway 300 and the Hoosier Heartland Highway okay and you and you have it's a wide open view so if he was
00:24:58
walking from where the where the trees start to there and somebody saw him that very likely
00:25:06
could have been who they saw walking from there to the CPS building you know so because they would have seen him they
00:25:12
would have thought he was walking along the Hoosier Heartland highway but he's actually walking or coming from the
00:25:17
woods but that's what that's somebody who where somebody saw him walking so I think that's a possibility that that's
00:25:23
how they know uh that time they just put it together from how long it would take
00:25:28
him to get from the crime scene to to that area [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] [Music]
00:26:12
that were there better than than I do so while we have you on the phone here I want to make sure that I ask you this
00:26:19
there was a statement and this plays along what exactly what we're talking with right now
00:26:25
there was a statement that I found early on that said a woman I couldn't find much more about this I
00:26:34
couldn't find you know the name of this woman but a woman who said that she saw a man
00:26:39
leaving the cemetery that afternoon and I I I've been looking through my notes here this morning
00:26:48
trying to find if I if I wrote down a more exact time other than that afternoon and I I can't find uh a time
00:26:56
that I put with that so one thing that you know one thing that I found to be very interesting in this case but I do
00:27:04
this in every case and but is especially in this one you know we we're analyzing
00:27:09
What doug Carter was saying at the 2019 press conference under a microscope but you do that because that's not Doug
00:27:18
Carter just getting up there and riffing you know that's not just him talking off
00:27:23
the cuff that is a a statement that was pieced together very carefully by multiple people in a room together
00:27:32
agreeing on what we're going to be saying now we do have Carter who does later say there are a couple things that
00:27:39
he threw in there himself but the Gen but the basis of it is a statement that was put together by the investigating
00:27:46
collectively by the investigative agencies now I have to believe knowing what we know about John Douglas and the
00:27:53
FBI and uh things that they've done during his career in Roy Hazel's Wood's career and Robert ressler's career that
00:28:02
those words were probably pieced together very much with the help of the FBI or with their at least with
00:28:10
their advice so when looking at words and and how we choose to put out certain words and certain
00:28:19
statements regarding this case the investigation and such the evidence to hear a woman said she saw a man
00:28:30
leaving the cemetery that afternoon very interesting and it goes back to what you were talking about with the car
00:28:38
at the CPS building notice the witness doesn't say she saw a vehicle or a man driving a vehicle
00:28:47
leaving the cemetery which we know there were parking spaces there she says she saw a man
00:28:53
that to me implies a single individual male individual on foot leaving the cemetery that afternoon
00:29:03
and just just like you were saying skip about the um they were asking for a driver
00:29:11
you know that I believe I'm gonna try to get as yeah I'm gonna try to get it as close to verbatim as I can based off of
00:29:17
memory but they're asking they said if you parked a car there that day or you know someone
00:29:24
parked there that day we want to hear from you but they start off the statement with saying uh we are
00:29:31
looking for the driver of or if you know the driver who parked at the which again
00:29:38
we're really we're really kind of analyzing this and and being very suspicious about everything but it
00:29:45
almost sounds like we have we have there's at least some thought here that we think you may have
00:29:53
been driving somebody else's vehicle yeah the exact exact uh statement was we're seeking The public's help to
00:29:58
identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS DCS building welfare building in the
00:30:05
city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side of County Road 300. so yeah there are he's obviously they're
00:30:10
asking yeah I agree they're you know asking about the driver so seems it seems to uh makes sense that they would
00:30:16
know what who the car or the what the car is and who the car belongs to you know and kind of cross-referencing
00:30:22
information here with them saying we believe this person is either was either local at the time or has local ties to
00:30:29
Delphi you almost have to wonder did somebody did somebody see a plate and it was an
00:30:35
Indiana plate maybe they don't have the plate number but they recall uh yeah it was an Indiana license plate yeah I mean
00:30:41
it's definitely possible I and I think I think I find it interesting that that's
00:30:45
the first thing they they uh that they lead the press conference off that way you know
00:30:51
it is as the attention getter you know it's well and it's also weird like first impressions are everything right your
00:30:57
first impression and your last impression and it's it starts off with with that's the information we're
00:31:03
seeking oh by the way we're going to be giving you some more information which is I I don't I'm not going to pretend to
00:31:09
be you know somebody that understands how you should deliver things in the best way to get what you want from the
00:31:18
people you are addressing but it almost felt like when you're releasing a new sketch and then you're
00:31:22
releasing a a little piece of a video and telling the public that you're changing directions in your
00:31:27
investigation I felt like you know the captain and I watched that press conference together when it when it went
00:31:34
down that day and it almost felt to me like if I would have walked out onto the streets like Family Feud and interviewed
00:31:41
a hundred people I feel like 99 of them would have forgotten about the whole vehicle parked thing
00:31:48
by the end of that press conference yeah but not that suspect right yeah that's the thing I mean who who was he who is
00:31:55
he addressing that part too and that's why I think maybe he was it was he was letting the guy hey this this is the
00:32:01
part that had us confused but we figured it out well and if this suspect that you're talking about DP is Bridge guy
00:32:10
then he's Brash and if the rumors are true about the staging of the crime scene and some of the horrific stuff
00:32:18
that I've heard rumored to be you know they say he has a shred of decency left to come forward
00:32:28
maybe he doesn't but maybe somebody shall be Cheryl or the Cheyenne even though her stories
00:32:36
haven't lined up and maybe they could come forward and have some piece of information
00:32:43
and again law enforcement has said over and over just one piece of information is all we need and then we get this guy
00:32:51
and if you have any doubt that that you're covering for this person if you have any thought in your head that this
00:32:59
individual DP is responsible for these murders you have you owe it to yourself you owe it to the community you owe it
00:33:08
to those two girls you over owe it to Abby and Libby to come forward and and talk to police and tell them the
00:33:15
true story why won't he come forward it's I mean this again it's hard to say why somebody they don't come forward or
00:33:21
whatever like I said there's there's a lot of reasons um it could be I would I would suspect and at least give them the
00:33:27
benefit of the doubt that it was probably innocent originally they didn't realize what they were giving a an alibi
00:33:33
for now I would say it's time it's time for them to uh to come clean and uh and tell what they
00:33:42
tell what they know you know and what about dp's girlfriend it's like again you probably have some information that
00:33:51
you could share with law enforcement and why aren't you doing that one he's saying that he was there cheating on you
00:33:56
so what kind of scumbag is that and and is that all you think you deserve in this world as a guy that cheats on you
00:34:04
or a guy that lies to you is that all you think you deserve maybe you should think that you deserve better
00:34:11
and come forward and talk to the cops and tell them what you know because maybe you're the missing link and you
00:34:16
owe that to yourself to your child you owe that to Abby you owe that to Libby I did want I did want
00:34:24
to go back to clarify one thing though about hitting about BG following the case and I think that's a because I
00:34:29
think that's a crucial part because I think the post-crime activity in this case is is is kind of is it has a lot to
00:34:36
do with what reason it led me to this was one of the things Carter said not too long in a television interview not
00:34:43
too long after the press conference he said I think the Killer is following this investigation very closely he said
00:34:49
when we and then they asked him about releasing the seconds he has he said when we decided that through the
00:34:54
information we received that we were going to release the second sketch I don't believe the individual knew we
00:34:59
were going to do that so it was really really important I think he was probably there or watching simply because he
00:35:06
thought we were on the wrong path I mean car I mean he's basically telling you what you need
00:35:12
to know there I mean he's basically saying the killer thought they why would the killer think they're on the wrong
00:35:17
path yeah because because he let him maybe because he let him down the wrong path
00:35:24
because he pointed him in that direction I mean you mentioned you mentioned earlier Nick that some things seems
00:35:30
simple there are things about this case that that are very simple but there's also it's also very complex in the way
00:35:36
in the in the uh I think in the post-crime uh stuff that's going on with all the misinformation and and
00:35:43
misdirection uh and false stuff that's been put out there and I think most of the stuff you've seen out there has been
00:35:49
kind of orchestrated I don't think it's just been by chance of people random people following the case
00:35:55
I think there's uh like the the guy did a good job for two years of keeping it keeping him off his truck off his tail
00:36:01
off his Trail they they've it's uh now that they're on it maybe maybe he's trying to do it through social media
00:36:08
yeah you what you're saying is I'm gonna expand on that a little bit to to kind of fill in some of the blanks there but
00:36:14
what you're saying overall is that we would be foolish to believe that at some point BG has not is not only listening
00:36:23
reading watching what he can find on TV and on the Internet or these garage podcasts whoever would be dumb enough to
00:36:32
do one of those but um that he's not only doing that but he could actively be throwing in weird
00:36:39
statements uh posting things like one of the victims was pregnant you know there was this found at the crime scene
00:36:47
or one of the Searchers said they saw this that day uh he could throw any of these things if if he if what you are
00:36:55
saying is correct Skip and you know people some people are going to listen to this and they're gonna they're not
00:37:01
gonna like you they're not gonna like me or the captain for having this conversation but the one reason why I
00:37:06
wanted to have this conversation with you and I hadn't spoke with you until until right now until today was the
00:37:12
theory was interesting on its face and it remains interesting after I speak with you not just because of the points
00:37:19
that you've brought up in the the interesting angles and things that you presented here
00:37:26
but also you are not one of these you're not one of these crazies that go this is what happened I know it all this
00:37:33
is how it went down and not willing to believe anything else and that's why I like talking with you today and I
00:37:40
appreciate you for being that way because so many people with this case in other cases have decided for whatever
00:37:45
reason they know exactly what happened and you can't tell them otherwise and anybody that says
00:37:53
otherwise is a complete idiot and I like to remind those people that if you were right then then why is it
00:38:02
not solved we won't know until it's solved and there's no harm in having these conversations and doing these
00:38:09
types of exercises when something is not solved there's no nothing wrong with looking at things from a different angle
00:38:17
under a different light from time to time and just asking the question why and you've done a great job of of coming
00:38:26
up with this Theory and and piecing it together um one is a pretty simple idea if you
00:38:35
claim that you're there and then your story has changed multiple times then what is the reason for lying and by
00:38:45
definition this eyewitness should then turn into a suspect this eyewitness should turn into a person of interest
00:38:53
and when you look at this case for the last four years every person of interest that has brought been brought to the
00:39:00
table no matter what crime they did or didn't do what you could never prove with any of those Persons of Interest is
00:39:08
that they were there the day uh that they were there that day at that bridge at that time frame
00:39:16
uh and we're capable of of those murders yeah there there's a lot of stuff that we hadn't had a chance to go over just
00:39:23
because of time but but um but like we've talked about before like having you be available to people
00:39:30
on the blog absolutely I'd be I'd be happy to answer any questions feel people fill people in
00:39:36
on any uh gaps they have okay and just and there's like I said there's more Nuance obviously in a case like this and
00:39:43
then um and we were able to talk about today you know I agree with with the caption about you know the basic things
00:39:50
there about you know why you a lot of law enforcement why do you you know law enforcement tells us that this guy's
00:39:55
following the case and they tell us that that there was a change in change in the
00:40:00
reason for the change and all that so there's a lot there's a lot out there and like I said it is simple but it's
00:40:06
complex you know we didn't talk about things like motive and all that kind of stuff but you know it's uh hopefully
00:40:12
hopefully the right person will hear uh and hopefully the right person will will
00:40:18
change their mind on what they think's the right thing to do well and you know with other cases uh Todd kohlhepp for
00:40:25
instance he went into Superbike gunned down a bunch of people killed them later he
00:40:31
took uh hostage killed the uh hostages boyfriend or husband and he was he was a felon before that he
00:40:40
was a convicted felon before that well everything I just mentioned to you are crimes that involved handguns and
00:40:46
firearms and and he should not have had those and we said on our show when we covered his case you know it would be
00:40:54
why is law enforcement not pursuing the person that gave him or sold him these guns in some Backwoods deal
00:41:02
because he's not allowed to to own them that person has some accountability in kohlhepp's crimes and it was probably of
00:41:10
course it wasn't at our doing we didn't have anything to do with it we're two two guys in a garage but it was months
00:41:16
later eight months later they arrested the person that sold them the guns here in this situation you have the same
00:41:22
thing if there is somebody that is providing this false Alibi or false narrative for having seen things or or
00:41:29
not seen things on that day in February in 2017 you need to come clean with that now
00:41:37
because there will be an aftermath this bridge guy will be identified caught and
00:41:43
convicted and when that happens you're the next one your your butt's on the fire next so you're fine now yeah I know
00:41:52
you probably are sitting here listening this going what do you mean I'm fine it's been four years Nick no you're fine
00:41:57
now because they don't know who BG is as soon as they know who he is that's when you're that's when your feet will
00:42:04
be held to the Flames so go tell them what you know now or if you if you made something up or if you just wanted to be
00:42:11
a part of it because it's something and you want to be something there's yes it's embarrassing yes there is some
00:42:18
shame that comes along with that but at the end of the day you can know that you
00:42:23
did the right thing and you can know that you you do you no longer can be held accountable because you've you've
00:42:29
you've said what the truth is now skip I don't want to get into any details but again my own curiosity
00:42:39
and kind of piecing together where I think what your overall story would be I've
00:42:47
always believed and I still do and will until we until we have all the answers that this
00:42:54
was a sexually motivated abduction and I want to leave it at that I want to be very clear about my thoughts that I've
00:43:00
always believed that this was a sexually motivated abduction it sounds to me like you without again
00:43:06
without getting into details and going too far down any roads here other avenues
00:43:12
it sounds to me like you feel this was a little more targeted at least one of the
00:43:18
victim was was a Target and this possibly was a personal cause homicide yes and and the other victim may just be
00:43:28
collateral damage unfortunately yeah sad okay it really is what's sad both both but of course yes
00:43:35
yeah I think I think you know a lot of people obviously a lot of people are following this case and there's a lot of
00:43:41
web solutes and I think a lot of a lot of those people have gotten things right I think there's a drug component here I
00:43:46
think there's a Revenge component but I don't think they're exact they're exactly the aspects of what people think
00:43:52
they are unfortunately this may fall back come back fall back on a family member in terms of not that
00:43:59
they were involved in the crime at all the source of this personal Vendetta may have originated there and I think that's
00:44:06
unfortunate I hope that doesn't go into have anything to do whether it's crime is solved or not but yeah I think I
00:44:12
think it's more I do think it's uh there is a drug component like I said in a in
00:44:16
a Revenge aspect but it but it's more personal than that [Music] join our discussion if you have
00:44:32
questions for skip he will be available he'll be answering questions on our blog
00:44:39
all week so make sure if you have any questions about the information he's putting out
00:44:45
you can ask him there at truecrime garage.com Colonel do we have any recommended reading for this week this
00:44:52
week Captain we are recommending alligator Candy by David Kushner this is from award-winning journalist and
00:44:59
regular contributor to Rolling Stone magazine David Kushner gives us alligator candy a memoir about family
00:45:06
survival and the unwavering Power of Love in 1973 David's older brother was murdered and decades later David found
00:45:15
himself unsatisfied with his memories of this tragic life-defining moment so he decided to revisit the episode Through
00:45:23
The Eyes of a reporter this is one of the best books that I've read in a while it's available in all forms but the
00:45:29
audio version with a brilliant performance by Bronson Pinchot is particularly good check out alligator
00:45:36
Candy by David Kushner and until next week be good be kind and don't live foreign
00:45:50
[Music] [Applause] [Music]