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Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks
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go all the way to Sweden for Linda. Big shout out to Linda. like your gym. >> Next up, we have a note. This is from
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>> That's enough of the business. Everybody gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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[music] We're discussing the disappearance of 20-year-old Indiana University student
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Lauren Spear. She was out for a night of partying with her friends and then in the early morning hours of June 3rd,
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2011, she is last seen leaving her friend's apartment, Jason Rosenbomb. Now, he watches her leave. This is about
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4:30 in the morning. And he watches her leave and he says that he sees her walk up 11th Street.
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>> Now, this is the last time that she is seen. Since her disappearance, there has
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been several theories that have come about as well as obvious suspects. Thus being her boyfriend and the three guys
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that she was hanging out with that night. >> Well, let's dive into the first theory,
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and this is the foul play theory. >> Yes. Originally, the police had said that they expected foul play from the
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beginning. Um, they thought that this would be involved because Lauren had not communicated with anyone since her
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disappearance. Now, this could mean a lot of different things. And it what one thing that it could mean is that maybe
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someone had picked her up. You know, we had said about her size. She she's small.
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>> Uh she there's things going on that night that make her an ideal target. >> If she was where her friends say she
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was, she was small. She was intoxicated. And she was alone. >> Yeah. All those factors would make her
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easy to grab, easy to control. Or let's say that you didn't want to grab her because you didn't want someone to see
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you doing that. Mhm. >> Now, I don't I'm not saying that this would be true with Lauren, but we do
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know that a lot of killers have got a lot of victims into their cars with the promise of drugs.
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>> Yeah. And Well, yeah. But the the other thing that I have not heard anywhere is
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that we do have one witness saying I had to pick her up and carry her back >> and she lost her shoes, her phone at the
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bar, then loses her purse and and all these other belongings, her keys on the way back to their apartment. What if she
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was just walking alone and then just was like, I I'm going to stop here to rest.
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I'm tired. >> I'm just going to lay down for a minute. Now you got this passed out individual
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on the side of the road that is not that heavy. So this could be a very opportunist thing. You [clears throat]
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know, somebody driving around and especially in these highly, you know, I can't speak for Bloomington. I can just
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speak for Ohio State campus, but if you go there on a Saturday night, Friday, Saturday night, you know, that scene is
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is is busy. You know, there's walkers, there's commuters, there's people out and about. There's a lot of people. If I
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was looking to harm somebody and looking for easy prey, a college campus is a perfect location. Oh yeah.
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>> There's all these weird alleyways and there's, you know, and there's tons of underage people intoxicated and walking
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and then walking alone. So, you know, she could have just been passed out somewhere.
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>> It's a [clears throat] whole community of pedestrians and a lot of them on a Friday night or late Thursday, they're
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walking back to their place. Um, the thing here though, Captain, is the surveillance footage. You know, we when
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we went through the timeline, we discussed all these different sightings of her on these different cameras using
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camera footage from different apartment complexes and such that saw her walking with Corey back to her apartment and
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then seeing them walk to his apartment. >> The problem I have here is, you know,
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we've we've seen what they've released. you know, they've released some pictures
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of her. The problem is where why aren't we seeing more of this surveillance footage because we have this story of
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these guys stating that she left on her own. She walked out of here by herself. >> Now, if if your theory is possible foul
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play or your theory is that one of these guys might have done something, >> if we could see this, what is on that
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surveillance footage that you're not releasing? And and to be honest with you, Captain, it's very uncommon for
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them not to release this surveillance footage, >> right? And I think there's, you know,
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there have been some clips cuz I've seen some little snidbits. My question is, is
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there surveillance footage of her leaving her friend's apartment? >> Yeah. >> Because it cuz if so, then all those
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eyewitness accounts somewhat check out up to that point. >> Yeah. >> And now, did she take off walking? To
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me, it'd be more likely that she'd run into somebody else that caused foul play outside of this group of four or
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possibly even the ex-boyfriend because the ex-boyfriend claims, >> now let's just talk about his alibi. He
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claims that he finished watching game six >> and then he went to sleep. So now his
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roommate states that this was true, but they really don't have a solid alibi for
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where he was, you know, because he could have went to his room. His roommate goes
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to sleep and he gets up, >> you know, 2 2:00, 4:00 in the morning. Where is he at? Where's his alibi?
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>> Yeah. Yeah, you're right. And I don't mean to to correct you here, but it was
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it was game two of the NBA finals. >> Oh, did I say game six? >> You got excited there. It did go six
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games. Okay. Um, now the thing here is you're exactly right. He says he's at home watching this game. The game was
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over just around midnight. Um, his roommate states that uh he ended up going to bed. Jesse went to bed at 2:30
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in the morning. Um, >> right. >> Is how solid is that? You know, how concrete is that information? What
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happened after 2:30? Could he have >> And I'm not saying that the roommate's a liar. I'm just saying the roommate might
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not know. Well, and then the other possibility is that she may not have left those apartments as well and
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>> that their stories don't check out. >> And that's why I'm calling into question
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about this surveillance footage. You know, they they had footage of the two of them walking into that alley and then
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they have footage of them coming out of the alley on the way back to Cory's place
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>> if she would have taken the same route. And I don't know that she would have,
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but had she taken the same route to get home or to return to where she was going, you know, do they have footage of
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her going into that alley and then not footage of her coming back out, you know, that all these things would point
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us into some better direction rather than these these four theories. >> Yeah. It's this very blurry area that we
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wish we had more answers, basically. >> Well, and that leads us to police theory
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number two. This is the inner circle theory that someone in her inner circle had done something bad to her. You know,
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this could obviously mean her boyfriend or any of the other friends, the guys that she was hanging out with that
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night, >> right? And like I said, I think initially it's a little odd. You know,
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uh normally people that are dating in their early 20s are they're not as mature. So to have a bunch of friends of
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the opposite sex might not be the coolest thing. And the fact that this guy's just like, "Well, I'm just going
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to stay at home and watch the game, and you're going to go hang out with three other dudes. By the way, you're going to
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also get drunk with them. Oh, you're going to be alone in their apartments with them?
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I don't know about this." >> Yeah. One thing I did when I was researching this case was I had to kind
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of step back and take away and and kind of throw out what I thought maybe Lauren's motives were for that evening.
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You know, I I just I just have to kind of chalk it up to maybe she just wanted to go out and have a good time. I wasn't
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trying to >> girls just want to have fun. >> Yeah. Because I think if you try to read
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too much into what you know any one of these people in this group was trying to accomplish that night, it really could
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sway you in a weird direction. >> Mhm. >> And we're going to stay on this inner circle theory here. And I'll tell you
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why, Captain. Because really, when you when you look at the police theories, the first initial four theories, you
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could really kind of encompass all of those theories into this inner circle theory. Any any of those could be
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possible with any of these members of the inner circle. >> Yeah. So, we have the the boyfriend.
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>> Yes. >> Now, his motive would be that she was out with some guys and maybe that he was
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jealous of this. >> Mhm. >> And so, therefore, he murdered her. >> Retaliation. >> Now, I think his Well, you know, his
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alibi is not completely solid. I think he definitely >> It's a reasonable alibi.
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>> Exactly. And I think with that, so let's just put him to the side for a second.
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Yes. >> Then the next guy you have is the guy she's hanging out with the most, >> Corey.
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>> Right. And we now, you know, for the record, they're just friends, but his motive could be sexual.
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You know, men are dogs. That's how we are. >> It's possible. Yeah, it's it's reasonable to suspect that.
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>> And so the the idea the idea here would have to be that he wanted to have sexual
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advances with her and that was not happening. So therefore, he killed her or he raped her and killed her. But the
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problem with this is they hung out with, you know, he hung out with her so much and even though Lauren was small, I
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mean, she's this partying rock star, right? >> Mhm. >> Maybe I glorified that too much, but you
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know, anyway, she's holding her own and he by the time they get back, he carries
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her. And I think that to me is a sign that this guy is trying to get lucky. Like I'll carry her back. Well, and mind
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you, this is the the part that I have a big issue with with Corey is that they are at her apartment. I mean, they're
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not physically inside her apartment. They're in the apartment complex and he could have delivered her to her place
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and left her there >> and and that didn't happen for what and we don't know. We don't know. Maybe
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Lauren was part of that saying, "No, let's change my mind. These guys are jerks. Let's go to your place."
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>> Right. Let's keep Yeah, let's keep the party going. But it seems odd to me that
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they're there. And >> I want to know more about him being punched because my thought on on one
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level is if there's not like some solid story backing that >> then maybe he did something with her
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>> and she attacked him and that's how he ended up with a black eye. >> That's and then this guy lawyers up and
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says and here's the problem again. Everybody in the inner circle, the four major suspects that we need to look
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into, they all lawyered up. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, let's just talk a little and I don't know if I covered this. So, the
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boyfriend, he helps with a couple searches. After a couple searches, his parents come lawyer him up. So, now he's
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not talking to the police. And then Corey lawyers up, you know, but now all their lawyers say, "But we're being
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cooperative with law enforcement." >> But so anyways, so with the Corey thing, the problem I have with that, which
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doesn't make a lot of sense, is I I know that he's with her the most. So he's the
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number one suspect in my eyes, more so than the current boyfriend. >> And he had some kind of assault, whether
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he provoked it or not. Sometimes you're just being a drunk idiot and somebody punches you. He might have not really
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been doing anything shady. Um but he throws up and then passes out. >> Yeah. >> And so he has the same if not better
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alibi than the current boyfriend. >> Yeah. Yeah. His his hisory or his statement stating that you you
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should believe me because I I threw up. I got sick. I went to bed. Mhm. >> And not only that, I was not the last
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person to see her and you have my roommate backing up my story as well. >> Um, >> well, you have actually two individuals
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backing up his story because you have two people that saw her after him. >> Correct.
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>> Right. So then you have Michael, the roommate of Corey, and he, you know, is basically forced to try to look after
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this intoxicated girl, and he's trying to get rid of her. Mhm. >> So again, I don't think there was
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anything bad there. I mean, whether he was studying at home or not, you don't actually believe that he was
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>> I was just kind of teasing, >> right? But whether whether or not he's, you know, maybe he's just hanging out,
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you know, playing video games, you know, he's just relaxing, whatever, he's just
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at home and that happens all the time where you're just like, "Hey, it's a, you know, it's a Friday or it's a
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whatever day of the week it is and you're just going to watch a movie, but you live on campus." Well, that movie
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might be interrupted by 15 drunk people or 15 drunk friends or two drunk friends. And then then it becomes, well,
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I just wanted a relaxing evening. Now I'm dealing with drunk people. And there's nothing there's probably not
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much there's probably not much more annoying thing in the world than being sober around intoxicated people.
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>> It's extremely annoying. Uh the the thing here is captain, you know, I'm I'm leaving the boyfriend aside like you
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said, okay, but I'm going to focus on these three guys, Corey, Michael, Jason. >> And if we are to believe Corey, Michael,
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and Jason, they all have the same story, >> you know, they tell the same timeline.
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If we're to believe their story works, then in my opinion, this Michael guy, the the roommate of Cory's,
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>> he actually has he would be the least like likely suspect to me out of the three of these guys. He seems to have
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the the least amount of involvement with this whole >> and I wouldn't know what his motive
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would be other than, oh, this drunk girl just showed up and now I'm going to murder her.
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>> Yeah. and he and he seems to have passed her off, you know, taking her to Jason's
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apartment, right? >> You know, this being around 3:30 in the morning. So, in under this scenario, you
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have Cory who spent the most time with her. And it's a little convenient that he doesn't seem to remember anything
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after being punched in the face or even remember much of that incident at all. >> Yeah. Which is crazy because he says,
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"Well, I I I blacked out." But then how do you know that you carried her? >> Mhm. Like it's one or the other, you
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know what I mean? >> And the thing here though is then Michael takes her to to Jason's and
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she's there for about an hour according to Jason. And if these stories check out, Jason is the last one to see her
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before she disappears. Thus to me making him the second most likely. I still keep
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Corey still keep Corey at that number one spot. >> Right. So then what's the third theory
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by the police? The third theory is that she would have been drugged at the bar or drugged sometime during that night.
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You know, she's out partying, she's drinking a lot, somebody put something in her drink. Um,
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>> which is very possible. >> It's very possible. I actually think that if someone put something in her
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drink that it would have been somebody she was hanging out with that night. Um, I I know it it's it can happen that they
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just happened to stop off at this bar for 45 minutes and someone slipped something in her drink there. that that
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obviously can happen, >> but I don't understand how that works out. If it's a stranger, does this guy
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just kind of follow them around and stand around and wait till 4:30 in the morning to see her again alone? You know
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what I mean? It seems a bit random to me. Um, where it >> Yeah, I think if she was drugged, it's
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probably more likely she was drugged by somebody she was hanging out with. >> I would have liked to have known how
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intoxicated she was at the bar. Um, you know, was was this falling down drunk? Was this something that they saw coming
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or was this something that just all of a sudden was brought on? >> Ladies and gentlemen, trust me, we've
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now this is what 92 episodes or something like that. We have talked a lot of a lot of cases where we talk
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about date rape or or drugging somebody's drink. >> Be careful when you're out drinking.
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Make sure that you're watching your drink and your friends drinks. Everybody, not just ladies. Everybody be
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careful. >> I said ladies and gentlemen. >> Well, thank you. Yeah. And the thing
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too, they say always make sure that it's the bartender handing you your drink, not somebody else. Well, but you need to
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watch the bartenders as well >> because the Joey Le case that we're talking about, you know, I've been
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diving into some new stuff there and there was some reports of, you know, I I have some friends that have been uh
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>> this is speculation, >> speculation, but I do have some friends that have been at bars in that area that
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had they they believe that they were roofied and they watched their drink the whole time and they think the only way
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that they could have been >> date rape drug or roofied would in by the bartender.
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>> And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason why the captain is a recluse. [laughter]
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>> No, no, it's cuz of Howard Hughes. So, uh, please theory number four. >> This is the drug overdose theory that,
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uh, something that she overdosed that night. We talked about a lot of partying going on that night and that her friends
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or a friend got scared and dumped the body or hid the body somewhere because of the overdose.
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>> Right. which I I I think okay a couple things. One, we we do not have a body.
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We do not know where Lauren is. >> So, we do not have any kind of toxicology report or anything,
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>> right? >> So, we don't know how much of anything was in in her system, >> right? It's it's believed that she was
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consuming quite a bit of alcohol. We are told that she was also doing cocaine and
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snorting colonopin. you we heard the rumor of possible ecstasy being involved. Um and then
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>> and that's a crazy cocktail. >> Yeah. I mean any any three of these four together would be crazy.
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>> Um we also have the finding of the cocaine at her apartment that that may back some of this up in my opinion. It
00:20:28
certainly points towards backing it up a little bit but but I guess you could go
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either way. Um, again, we I still think that we need more information on the whole situation. She did have that long
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QT syndrome, though. This would be a heart condition. This I'm not a doctor, but I'm guessing that having a heart
00:20:46
condition, and doing potential drugs that could increase your heart rate or slow them down or confuse your body
00:20:53
would would even make a potential uh bad cocktail lethal. >> Yeah. And you know, heart disease aside,
00:21:00
I mean, we already have that report that clonopin is a very deadly, you know, thing, a drug to mix with alcohol.
00:21:07
>> Mhm. You should not mix that with anything, and you should not be using that unless directed by a doctor. Um,
00:21:13
Lauren's family has plenty of times voiced their suspicions about her friends that she was hanging out with
00:21:19
that night, as well as her boyfriend, uh, pointing out that they have all refused police issued polygraph test.
00:21:26
They all have retained lawyers very quickly into this investigation or the disappearance of Lauren.
00:21:32
>> Right. >> So, it sounds like Lauren's parents are at at the very least believe one or more
00:21:37
of these dudes know more than what they are willing to tell us. >> Well, I definitely think they do, but I
00:21:42
think some of that is that they have a reputation and they don't want to, you know, come out and say, "Well, I was on
00:21:48
this drug, too." or you know there a lot of people will say oh well well mom and
00:21:52
dad I was hanging out with her but I you know I was just drinking I wasn't doing
00:21:56
that other stuff. >> Mhm. >> You know >> well and I think you touched upon something that I was thinking about too
00:22:02
was that I think you could make an argument either way on this situation. You could make an argument for Lauren's
00:22:08
parents that these guys have not cooperated, but I think you on some level could make an argument that they
00:22:14
have cooperated. Um, if in fact she did leave on her own accord, h how responsible how much are they how much
00:22:23
do they have to be involved, I guess, is what I'm saying, as far as the investigation goes.
00:22:28
>> Well, they they weren't forcing her to drink and they weren't forcing her to do
00:22:32
drugs if there was no roofy. Mhm. >> So, you know, she is responsible for that. You know, I think, you know, it
00:22:40
comes down to some somewhat privilege, you know, and I think, you know, let's just be honest, she was she's a white
00:22:47
female. All four suspects are white males. >> Mhm. >> Family probably has some kind of
00:22:54
financial backing. You know, the the boyfriend helps for two days. It's your girlfriend since
00:23:00
high school and you help for two days and then you lawyer up. That's a little fishy. And then everybody else lawyers
00:23:07
up right away. And yes, it's a police polygraph. And I don't know how much I trust that. Now, you were telling me
00:23:13
that some of them actually have taken polygraphs. >> Yeah. So, this is the the the guys have
00:23:19
responded to the Spears public suspicions by saying that they have taken privately administered polygraphs
00:23:27
as well as one from the FBI. Now, that statement is a little confusing to me because I'm not sure if that means that
00:23:34
all of them have taken an FBI administered test or if just one of them has. >> Um, if they have, if all of them have, I
00:23:42
see no reason why the FBI test shouldn't more than suffice for a Bloomington Police Department test, right?
00:23:49
>> You know, Bloomington to me is a is a college town. It's not New York City. It's not Washington DC. I would think
00:23:54
that the FBI have better test, you know, than most larger police agencies with a
00:24:00
lot of funding and a lot of resources. >> And I would love to know what questions
00:24:04
were asked and I'd love to know what the results of those tests were. >> Yeah, that's that's something key there,
00:24:09
Captain, because were these softball questions, >> you know, were these priv privately
00:24:14
administered polygraphs that were at the request of their own lawyers? You know,
00:24:18
we've seen situations where a defense attorney will take somebody on as their client, but they subject them to a
00:24:24
polygraph test because they want to get a feel if the person's actually innocent
00:24:28
or not, so they know how to construct their investigation, you know, the defense of their client.
00:24:34
>> Yeah. It It's really hard for me to think that if I'm partying with people and somebody ODed that I wouldn't be
00:24:40
calling 911 right away. I would party with your body for like >> for the next few hours.
00:24:47
>> Take you to Waffle House like Weekend at Bernie's. >> Yeah. Dance dance me around. No, but
00:24:53
it's like I look I Yeah, I think there's some privilege here, but I don't think you know when the there's a retired FBI
00:25:01
agent that's on this case, and one of his things and one of his theories is that she oded and they got scared and
00:25:08
the last thing that, you know, young 20some year old guys want is the police involved.
00:25:14
>> No, the last thing they want is their for their friends. Yeah. >> Right. To OD. And yes, you are you are
00:25:22
on drugs, but you can call the ambulance. Like to me, that's the first step. I mean, these obviously these guys
00:25:30
are at this higher quote unquote higher education, right? >> So, >> you know, the the idea that they would
00:25:37
just take her and dump her into the Ohio River opposed to calling the ambulance seems a little ludicrous to me.
00:25:45
>> Mhm. And the thing, like I said before, witnesses say that she was doing cocaine
00:25:50
and colonopen. Uh were those witnesses those same dudes? Um because then you could take it take it either
00:25:58
way. Either a they've come clean with what they know and they've admitted to illegal activity or now they're making
00:26:06
some [ __ ] up because they've done something even worse. >> Right. Right. But then at that point
00:26:11
it's not about OT. Maybe these individuals were, you know, they did some sick [ __ ] It was it was a a raping
00:26:20
murder. Dump her body into the river, you know. But this whole idea that they would well they just wouldn't call the
00:26:27
cops. They wouldn't they wouldn't call ambulance. I mean, you could if the last thing you want the last thing you want
00:26:33
is a dead body, but the second thing you don't want is the cops. Well, okay, there's a step in between. Somebody
00:26:39
disoded. Let's call the ambulance. You don't have to call the cops. You call the ambulance
00:26:44
>> or you drive that individual to a hospital. It makes you know these are people that or are friends with her or
00:26:52
at least acquaintances with her. They're not just going to like, oh well [ __ ] what are we going to do? Let's just put
00:26:57
her in a bag and dump dump her in a river. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. And I really like and most of the
00:27:03
time I'm very on the side of FBI agents. But for some reason, every time they go
00:27:08
to that theory, I just, you know, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. >> Well, we got some even stranger theories
00:27:14
to get to right after this quick beer break. [music] All right, we're back. Cheers, mates.
00:27:42
>> I want to go through this newspaper article that came out April 2013, and it's titled, "Remains are found in
00:27:49
Indiana." >> Mhm. >> Remains were found in a remote area of Indiana. And a lot of people suspected
00:27:54
that these would be the remains of college student Lauren Spear. >> Wow. That's that's pretty interesting.
00:28:00
Brown County Chief Deputy Coroner Earl Piper told Fox News that the remains discovered belonged to 26-year-old Kate
00:28:09
McGrael, who was [clears throat] reported missing in April of 2010. The remains were found on a private property
00:28:15
by two women looking for mushrooms. >> Well, that's what I normally do. >> Well, originally they had just found a
00:28:21
skull, but when they called it in and the authorities came out, the other remains were found. Mhm.
00:28:28
>> Piper said that the identification was made through dental records and no cause
00:28:32
of death has been released. Now, while the bones were found a couple weeks before this article had actually come
00:28:39
out, they waited till they had identified them. Um, authorities began to investigate whether they had belonged
00:28:45
to missing women in the area. This including Spear. So, so think about this for a second. you are a family member of
00:28:53
Lauren who has gone missing or or a loved one or a friend or whatever and this news comes out that there are
00:28:59
remains found and I imagine that it this is the nightmare that all of these people all of these victims go through
00:29:05
in these disappear type cases that anytime somewhere in an area close to where they went disappeared if if the
00:29:12
remains are found now you're drugged back into the story you're reliving the nightmare again you're hoping and
00:29:17
praying that it's that it's not her or maybe you're praying that it is her So you can finally get some answers and
00:29:23
bring her home, >> right? Or get some closure. >> Kate McGrael was a graduate of Indiana
00:29:28
University. She was last seen leaving for a solo hike near her mother's home in Brown County. Her father, Jim, he
00:29:36
lived in Nashville, Indiana, told the Indianapolis Star that he believes that his daughter had died from hypothermia.
00:29:42
Again, there was no cause of death determined uh as of mid 2016. So, we're yet to see a more recent update than
00:29:51
this, but the Brown County coroner did state that >> what they do know is that she had died
00:29:56
in the place where she was found. >> Okay. >> Uh and they they said that foul play is
00:30:01
not suspected. But I only bring that up because when you're going through these cases, like we said, anytime this news
00:30:08
pops up, these family members or friends, they're out somewhere, they hear this news on the radio, they see it
00:30:13
on the TV or maybe in their local newspaper, they're immediately on the phone or they're getting calls from
00:30:19
investigators wondering if this is a connection. >> Yeah. And your your heart goes out to
00:30:24
them or anybody that has had to deal with that. So, let's get into some of the stranger theories and some of the
00:30:30
stranger coincidences that have come up since the disappearance of Lauren. Um, the first one being that of the excon
00:30:38
and the white truck. >> On the night that Lauren disappeared, police said that a white truck was
00:30:44
spotted on surveillance footage not far from where she was last seen. Yeah. So, there's a possibility that this vehicle
00:30:51
could be involved. The Bloomington Police Department were investigating any potential link between this truck and
00:30:57
Lauren Spear's disappearance. You know, the thought here is, did this driver happen to be driving down the street,
00:31:04
saw her at an intersection, and immediately pulled over? >> You know, maybe this is exactly what he
00:31:09
was looking for. Talks her into the vehicle. This could take just a matter of seconds. And then at that point, he's
00:31:15
got her and he takes her to to wherever. >> Yeah. Or maybe doesn't talk her in. forces, you know, forcers are in by
00:31:22
gunpoint. That's a possibility. But but who is this individual that's driving this white truck?
00:31:27
>> Um, well, they're not for certain who he is. But where the excon comes into play
00:31:33
is the FBI agent, he's actually a former FBI agent, uh, by the last name of Garrett, who now works for ABC News. Um
00:31:41
he discovered that there was an ex-convict named James Mlish and he just happened to be released from prison from
00:31:49
he was there for assaulting his ex-wife. He was released at the time of this disappearance and he drove a similar
00:31:56
white truck. >> Right. And so then they got a call from the the ex-wife that he assaulted
00:32:01
saying, "Hey, you might want to check into this guy." >> Yeah. And that that's what tipped them
00:32:05
off. He he also happened to have been living in a halfway house at the time which was just about 10 minutes from
00:32:12
where Lauren had disappeared. >> What were the claims that the ex-wife was making?
00:32:16
>> Well, she says that James Mcll had killed Lauren and then buried her on a farm in southern Indiana.
00:32:23
>> Uh stating that he had, you know, said things to her in regards like comments
00:32:28
that he would make to her. Things like, well, you know what happened to Lauren and the same thing could happen to you.
00:32:33
So threats that that she is alleging he had said to her. >> Well, I think it's weird that you know
00:32:38
he goes to prison for assaulting you and why are you having any contact with this
00:32:43
individual? >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? Like uh you know are are you having contact because you
00:32:50
like drama? Are you having contact with this individual because he's forcing you
00:32:53
to? Like are you welcoming this too? I do want to throw something out there though regarding ex-wives,
00:33:01
ex-girlfriends, and I'm not saying that, you know, I don't want, you know, I don't want anybody to read too much into
00:33:06
this, but I know regarding the Long Island serial killer case that through the tip line, they were getting a lot of
00:33:13
tips from ex-wives, ex-girlfriends that were accusing former, you know, husbands
00:33:18
and boyfriends of being >> lovers. Yeah. >> Being involved. So, this is something
00:33:22
that is is actually pretty common in a in a pretty popular case. Um, but they had made contact, the former FBI agent,
00:33:30
Garrett, he made contact with this James Mclish. Now, James agrees to a lie detector test.
00:33:36
>> Um, and he wants to prove that he was not involved in the disappearance of Lauren.
00:33:41
>> Yeah. He wants to clear his name. >> So, when it came to questions about Lauren, uh, James stuck to his denials,
00:33:47
uh, answering calmly and clearly. Uh, he said he had nothing to do with Lauren's
00:33:52
disappearance. >> Mhm. and he, you know, at the end of the day, it sounds like they didn't gain
00:33:57
much from this lie detector. They didn't think that he was being untruthful, >> right?
00:34:02
>> Um they they basically thank him for his cooperation and he tells the, you know,
00:34:07
the investigators that he wishes them the best of luck, >> right? So now, if this individual was
00:34:12
driving this white truck, then we can rule that out as a lead. But if this individual was not driving that
00:34:19
particular white truck, then that is still a very possible lead. >> You're exactly right. And I think just
00:34:24
his cooperation shows that he's probably not guilty of anything regarding Lauren's case.
00:34:30
>> Um, another strange thing that took place uh was the biker gang uh theory. Now, this is from the streets of
00:34:39
Indiana. There's a notorious motorcycle gang called the Sons of Silence. Um, there is an alleged link to the Spear
00:34:46
case which came in the form of tips from a former member of the group. This person's name is Robert Strange who goes
00:34:55
by the name of Bodin. >> Wait, wait. His real name is Robert Strange. >> Yeah. And he goes by the name of Bodin.
00:35:01
>> Old Bodin. >> Which is crazy because your real name is Bodin and you go by the captain,
00:35:07
>> right? >> Strange doesn't >> Strange. >> Strange. Robert Strange does not have
00:35:11
any criminal record. Uh but he is well known to the authorities, whatever that means. Uh I guess he's got a reputation
00:35:18
for being what they call an enforcer. >> Um so if the gang has a problem, you know, they go to him and he kind of just
00:35:26
takes care of it, right? >> Uh but again, no criminal record. >> So going by the name of Bod Dean, this
00:35:32
is a former member of a local motorcycle gang. Uh, according to the investigators, now what they discover is
00:35:39
an online message in which one of Robert Strange's relatives claimed that Strange
00:35:45
shot Lauren in a dispute over drugs and money and then buried her on his property.
00:35:51
>> Mhm. >> The message reads, "It's very good fertilizer." >> Well, if he's talking about Lauren, then
00:35:57
that's just some sick [ __ ] right there. >> Well, and these are online messages, so
00:36:02
they could have really been posted by anybody. Um, the thing here is what investigators did come up with was that,
00:36:09
you know, this gang and this particular person had ties. They were in the Indianapolis area and they couldn't find
00:36:16
any link between Lauren in the Indianapolis area and they used basically her cell phone records to come
00:36:23
up to try to establish a link. They couldn't do that. Uh, ultimately what they think is happening here is that
00:36:30
this guy probably has made a lot of enemies over the years. Mhm. >> And then it looks like somebody's trying
00:36:36
to set him up or maybe just kind of throw suspicion his way to put him under the radar of the police.
00:36:43
>> Well, and she lost her keys, right? So to get from Bloomington to Indianapolis
00:36:49
or for this person to be just passing a by that late at night from Indianapolis to Bloomington would doesn't seem that
00:36:56
likely. if she did owe somebody money or if there was some kind of dispute over drugs, if if that dispute went down at
00:37:04
4:30 in the morning when she just happened to be alone drunk on a street corner,
00:37:09
>> right? >> It it seems very strange to me that this person would just happen to catch her in
00:37:14
that area at that time. >> Yeah, but some men are just [ __ ] talkers. Like take the ex-con, right,
00:37:20
for example. like his ex-wife calls and says, "Hey, this guy assaulted me and he's been making threats. You know what
00:37:27
happened to her will happened to you, implying that he did it because he's some tough guy, you know?" Well, that's
00:37:34
not a tough guy comment. That's stupid. So, shut the [ __ ] up, right? So, and then here's another guy that, you know,
00:37:41
he's a big bad biker guy and he's a part of the biker gang, you know, and we we do tough [ __ ] you know. Oh, man. That
00:37:49
girl made good fertilizer. shut the [ __ ] up, you know. >> Well, again though, I I think I think
00:37:54
the investigators might have it right where I don't think I I'm starting to think that those are not his messages.
00:38:00
That those are something that that other people have they're trying to say. >> But you see what I'm saying is that
00:38:05
these guys sometimes like they boast like I'm so tough. >> Oh yeah. >> You know, it's like just knock it off.
00:38:10
>> Oh yeah, it definitely happens. >> But there was this other lead you were talking about that was pretty
00:38:14
interesting. >> Yeah. This came from remember we mentioned the website findloren.com.
00:38:18
There's information regarding her disappearance on there and if you if you have any information you can go there
00:38:23
and submit it. Uh they were collecting tips through finduren.com and it was from that site that the
00:38:30
family had received a tip that some say may hold the best chance for an answer. Uh this tip led to a young man by the
00:38:38
name of Corey Hammersley. Uh he's an inmate at the Indiana State Prison. Hammersley was once a star student and
00:38:46
athlete, uh, but he got in deep into the drug scene at Indiana University. >> One year after Lawrence disappearance,
00:38:54
Hammersley had a meltdown. He's he's high on drugs. He steps out of his apartment. He's wearing nothing but a
00:39:01
hat. Uh, I've seen parts of this video. It's >> The guy likes to party. >> Yeah, it's it's scary, but it's also it
00:39:08
>> sad, right? Well, it's a little funny, too, at some parts, but it's definitely
00:39:12
scary stuff because he takes out a firearm and he starts shooting into a house. >> Um, he he is he is then opening fire on
00:39:22
the police once they're called in and they they try to arrest him. >> Jesus. >> Now, so obviously he's guilty as sin
00:39:30
regarding this. He's caught red-handed being, you know, being a total uh whatever.
00:39:34
>> Whackad do. But uh so while he is serving time uh he's talking with another inmate and um they're talking
00:39:43
about this news story that comes over the TV and Hammersley tells the other inmate about a story about how Lauren
00:39:51
had died at a house party with a group of people that he had known. Um he's saying that they were drinking and they
00:39:58
were doing ecstasy and that she had oded and the guys got scared and they didn't
00:40:06
know what to do with her. So then they took her down to the Ohio River and they got rid of her disposing of her body.
00:40:12
>> Right. And this is one of the police's theories, their main theories. And and
00:40:17
this actually, you know, has more validity to it. You know, when >> when we don't know their sources of how
00:40:25
they're getting this information, are they only getting this information from this inmate or are they getting this
00:40:31
information from the inmate and somebody outside of that four guy circle? >> No, they were only getting this
00:40:37
information from an inmate that was serving time with uh Corey Hammersley. Um, so what happens is they they get
00:40:44
this information and like you said, it goes with one of their original theories. This is also
00:40:50
>> this is also one of the more simple answers to what might have happened that night and we know from doing so many of
00:40:56
these cases a lot of times the most simple explanation is is usually the most accurate. Um, the thing here is
00:41:03
though they reach out to Hammersley and they want to question him and see what he knows. Uh, he claims he doesn't know
00:41:10
anything. Uh and furthermore, he also states that he's not going to help the police if if he if he does come across
00:41:17
knowledge in the future or if he suddenly remembers something. Uh he has no he he has no wishes to help the
00:41:24
police in this investigation. >> Why? >> Uh you just you're just thinking screw the
00:41:32
police. This is not about the police, you know. This is about, you know, the family's closure, you know. Yeah. And
00:41:40
figuring out what happened to this this poor girl. >> Yeah. But I, you know, and I'm I'm not
00:41:45
going to go as far to call Cory Ham Hammersley crazy. Uh, his what he did, his actions were certainly crazy. Uh,
00:41:52
shooting at police officers, shooting into a house. Um, but he strikes me as a guy that doesn't doesn't give a [ __ ]
00:42:00
that doesn't care uh about much. He's serving 20 years in Indiana State Prison. Uh so so we can thank God that
00:42:08
he's not going to get out for a long time. Uh the problem is if he does know something, he's shut up about it and
00:42:15
he's not going to give out any more information. The thing here though is you you talked about peacocking and
00:42:21
sometimes [clears throat] guys say dumb stuff. Um I could see this being that situation. You know, he's in prison.
00:42:28
He's talking to other inmates. He sees a story that comes over and and and these
00:42:33
inmates, they know each other. They know, oh, that's the college kid. He went to Indiana University. He
00:42:39
>> Oh, college boy. >> He ain't tough, you know. Hey, college boy. >> Well, then college boy's got some
00:42:44
information. Some information all of a sudden that police are looking for that. To me, it it looks like probably a
00:42:50
peacocking situation here. >> Right. So, maybe his whole story is this a little bit of horseshit.
00:42:57
>> That's right. >> Right. So, just so we're pretty clear about this, you know, this guy was not
00:43:01
involved. He just heard rumors about this happening on campus. >> Yeah. If you believe his story, he
00:43:08
knows how it went down. He might know some of the people involved. Uh but >> Right. But I but but what I was saying,
00:43:15
the reason why the police believe this story is they have some information that somebody came forward talking about this
00:43:21
and I don't believe it's this person. >> I think it's another source. M >> so but that to me that's two people
00:43:30
telling the same story >> now we need to dive into that a little more >> I agree
00:43:35
>> and another thing to kind of clear up is the individual the con that the ex-wife
00:43:40
said hey you know this guy assaulted me look into him they actually after all the polygraph and stuff they actually
00:43:47
searched his property even dug in certain areas and found nothing >> and then after this they're going to
00:43:53
have another lead and it's a I believe a flat Asher. >> Yes. >> And this guy, he's a
00:44:00
>> Why didn't I said that? Yes. Like like like you got excited. >> Sound like Marv Albertton.
00:44:06
>> Maybe that's your thing, man. >> Marv. Uh no. Uh on January 28th, 2016, the FBI conducted a raid on a home in
00:44:16
Martinsville, Indiana. Uh this is approximately 20 miles north of Bloomington connected to a man sus
00:44:22
suspected of exposing himself to numerous women. >> Uh the FBI and other police agencies
00:44:28
converged on the home with Bloomington police confirming that they were involved in the search. Investigators
00:44:35
sifted dirt removed from a barn near the property after cadaavver dogs finished their work. Searchers would not discuss
00:44:44
whether anything significant was found. Um, investigators did tow away a white truck from the property. Here's that
00:44:51
white truck again. >> Uh, the truck might be the one connected to uh the disappearance of Lauren, but
00:44:58
this truck is connected to a 35year-old man by the name of Justin Wagers uh who lived with his mother and stepfather uh
00:45:06
at the property until his arrest. >> Well, and this doesn't rule out this individual for me because one, I think
00:45:11
it's weird with the white truck. >> Mhm. Uh, and just because you didn't find her remains on the property doesn't
00:45:17
mean that her remains weren't put somewhere else. >> You're exactly right. Uh, a little
00:45:22
information on Justin Wagers here. Uh, he was a registered sex offender, >> right? The aggressive dator is what he
00:45:29
is. >> Is that what you call? Uh, well, he's a registered sex offender. Um, at least
00:45:33
one news station was calling Justin the prime suspect in Lauren's disappearance.
00:45:38
Uh as far as far back as 1999, Wagers was arrested repeatedly for exposing himself in several Indiana communities.
00:45:48
Uh his criminal record includes uh intimidation, harassment, violation of pro of a protection order. There was
00:45:56
a single minor misdemeanor charge of battery. Uh but this was eventually dropped. So, what what I'm pointing this
00:46:05
out because we're not seeing what I would call a violent offender. Um, he's he's certainly infringing on other
00:46:12
people's rights and exposing himself. He's certainly a sexual deviate, right? >> Um, but we're,
00:46:18
>> but that doesn't mean that it doesn't, you know, progress. >> You're exactly right.
00:46:21
>> I mean, there's a lot of serial killers that they start out as peeping toms and
00:46:25
this guy is, you know, >> Ted Bundy's one of the more famous serial killers. started off as a peeping
00:46:31
tom when he was like in his teenage years, >> right? And I don't know how many of them
00:46:35
were flashers, >> you know, uh, you know, Ted Bundy wanted to get a look. This guy is trying to
00:46:41
give a look, you know, but but there, you know, with the battery charges. >> Again, I wouldn't rule this guy out.
00:46:48
>> Now, last year they did obtain a DNA swab from Justin Wagers. >> So, okay. So, he gave that willingly.
00:46:56
Well, he >> but e either way, even if he gives it willingly, you have to find her body to
00:47:02
connect that to him, >> right? And I want to kind of go through this for a second here because I got a
00:47:06
lot of thoughts on this >> regarding the DNA. So, we can say he gave it willingly, but at the time he
00:47:14
was jailed. Um, so sometimes in these situations I and it varies from state to state and maybe even from county to
00:47:21
county. Sometimes when you're in prison or you're in jail and they request these
00:47:25
things, it's not so much a request, if you know what I mean. It's it's sometimes you have to consent to this.
00:47:31
Um, I don't know what the exact case is here. They have obtained his DNA. As you
00:47:36
said, without there being a body, the DNA may be of little to no use at all. Part of me wonders if that's more of an
00:47:44
intimidation factor that maybe if you could get this guy to start talking by cuz you want this guy's mind to wander.
00:47:52
If he if he's guilty of something, you want him to think, "Well, why would they want my DNA?" [ __ ] they want my DNA
00:47:58
because >> they might >> they want to compare it to something. They found something. Oh, I better start
00:48:02
talking. I better, you know, now's your one chance, buddy, to tell us what you know before this starts getting real bad
00:48:08
for you. >> Um, I think that's the situation that we've seen here. This is still pretty
00:48:13
early uh regarding this Justin wagers thing. We're talking about just a little over a year, less than a year since
00:48:20
they've obtained the DNA. So, I wonder where this could end up going if it if it could potentially lead to something.
00:48:27
>> Right. And Justin's lawyer gave a statement. >> Yeah. Basically just stating that his
00:48:31
client has no knowledge of the case regarding the disappearance of Lawrence Spear or any other missing person.
00:48:39
>> Yeah. But see, >> I love how they throw that any other missing. >> Yeah, that any other missing person.
00:48:44
That that gives willies, man. >> Well, you want to hear something else that will creep you out?
00:48:49
>> Yeah, go for it. I'm ready. >> So, we have we have a murder that took place um in 2015,
00:48:57
>> and this has been very much linked to the Lauren Spear case. Now, this situation is strange because the woman
00:49:05
that went missing, her name is Hannah Wilson. Um she was at the same bar. She was at Kilroyy's Sports Bar,
00:49:12
>> right? um and she was drinking on campus when she when she had disappeared, right? So, very obvious links to the
00:49:20
Lauren case. Now, the way that this goes down is that Hannah was out drinking. She was 22 years old at the time and um
00:49:28
she was out drinking at this bar all night long at at uh Kilroyce. She takes a taxi cab home um and she's she's not
00:49:38
seen after that. >> Right. The problem here is, of course, originally the taxi cab driver is a
00:49:44
suspect in this case, >> of course. Obviously, >> but they have he has surveillance in his
00:49:50
taxi cab. >> Smart on him. >> And what they what they're able to prove what he's able to prove is that at some
00:49:56
point Hannah had paid her fair and left the cab. He drives off. >> Mhm. >> So, the really scary thing here is
00:50:05
Hannah was not abducted from the bar. She was not even really abducted on her way home.
00:50:12
>> Um, we don't know exactly when she was abducted, but she made it home. Her roommate states that they had heard the
00:50:20
door open at some point that that night. >> Wow. >> They didn't get up to investigate
00:50:25
because, you know, people come home late. >> Mhm. >> Um, the next morning though, they find
00:50:30
her belongings and her cell phone in her room and the front door is still open. Right. Which would kind of go to the
00:50:39
theory of being drugged and then that individual has to follow the person that they drugged.
00:50:47
>> And then so when she get, you know, she gets back to her house, doesn't pass out
00:50:52
in the taxi car. >> Mhm. >> And then and then she's abducted. Probably easier if she was drugged.
00:50:59
>> Yeah. The situation here, Captain, is they they have arrested a man for this.
00:51:04
Uh his name is Daniel Messle and he was 49 years old at the time of this. He's been convicted since then.
00:51:11
>> So now he's an obvious suspect in this Lauren case. >> Right. >> Uh the situation here is they were
00:51:17
easily able to connect this crime to Daniel because they found Daniel's cell phone at the foot at the feet of Hannah
00:51:25
Wilson where he had left her body. >> Right. So he goes to dump the body and he drops his phone.
00:51:30
>> And when they found the body, they find the phone. They quickly trace the phone
00:51:34
to this Daniel Metsel and they go to his home and when they get to his home they
00:51:39
find that he's got like scratch and claw marks all over his arm um where Hannah had put up a a significant fight and
00:51:47
they also find blood and hair inside of his vehicle. Um the thing >> what kind of vehicle was it? A white
00:51:54
truck? >> No, it was a Kia Sportage but I don't I don't know the color. >> So it was a small SUV. Okay. So, this is
00:52:01
definitely an individual that we have to look into. >> Right >> now, there there are some investigators
00:52:06
that have pointed out that they they're a little concerned about Daniel being a suspect in Lauren's case, and their
00:52:15
thought is that he he couldn't success successfully pull off this murder and get away with it. This the murder of
00:52:22
Hannah Wilson, right? >> Uh that he was pretty easily caught. Um >> Yeah, but he made one big mistake.
00:52:28
>> He made one big mistake. You're exactly right. So, it's like, you know, >> you take away that one mistake, do they
00:52:33
still get their guy? >> They might never have got their guy. And then now you have two girls going
00:52:38
missing from the same area. >> Mhm. >> And and and both we're assuming are deceased.
00:52:44
>> Yeah. So, so I I want to point this out because the investigators don't think
00:52:48
that this is a great lead. Um, however, the judge at his sentencing, um, when he
00:52:55
sentenced, they made a the judge made a remark about a a student that was attacked in 2009 on the college campus,
00:53:04
>> right? >> This was a drunk girl that got persuaded to get into a vehicle. She's attacked.
00:53:10
She fights off the attacker and she gets out and she flees. She flees the area. Now, she's not able to provide a vehicle
00:53:17
description >> uh regarding the attack itself, but I found it very curious that the judge
00:53:23
kind of threw that out there during during his trial. >> Maybe he knows a little more than we
00:53:28
know. >> So, where you have the investigators that might not think he's a potential
00:53:32
suspect, you certainly have somebody close to a murder case that seems to think he's capable and probably should
00:53:39
be suspected in other attacks or maybe disappearance of Lauren. Okay. So, with all this on the table, where do we go
00:53:47
from here? What's your thoughts? >> Uh, the thing, the only thing that I like about this case, it's I mean, it's
00:53:54
tragic. We have this missing girl. She who knows how much partying she was doing that night, right?
00:54:00
>> But regardless, >> or how much party she was how much partying she was doing, you know, months
00:54:06
or years prior, >> right? There's a couple thoughts I have on this. I'm I'm pretty much a live and
00:54:11
let live person. you know, do do your thing as long as it doesn't bother me. Um, that kind of thing. Um, so, you
00:54:18
know, she can do what she wants. I don't I'm not going to go out and fault these
00:54:23
guys that she was hanging out with >> just because they didn't take her home or they didn't put her to bed. At some
00:54:30
point, we're all adults. And and the thing is I I hate the expression when when somebody has to fess up to
00:54:37
something or when when somebody has to admit to something, they go >> or or confronted with something, they
00:54:43
go, "Oh, well, I was drunk." Well, that's not an excuse. It's not really an excuse. As an adult, whether you be 20,
00:54:50
whether you be 30, 40 years old, you choose to drink, if you choose to do certain drugs, well, there could be
00:54:56
consequences that come with those actions. Now, I'm not putting this on Lauren either, but I can't fault those
00:55:03
guys just for the fact that she didn't make it home safe. Uh, >> well, whether you're a man or a woman,
00:55:10
you know, when you go out drinking, when you go out partying with anybody, you you have to monitor what you're doing
00:55:16
because you're putting yourself at risk. >> And and so, you know, she was doing that. And I don't fault her at all, but,
00:55:24
you know, those are they're dangerous behaviors. and you have a responsibility to to yourself to to keep yourself safe
00:55:32
and to put yourself in smart situations and not bad situations. The one thing I do like about this case though, Captain,
00:55:39
is it seems to, you know, we're almost seven years, we're almost six years, excuse me, removed from this thing, but
00:55:47
this case seems to like not go cold. Like every couple months there seems to be a new coincidence or a new lead or a
00:55:54
new possible suspect. Uh, I do like that because that that to me points that we might get an answer someday,
00:56:00
>> right? We might be getting closer to to a resolution on this. >> Yeah. And Lauren's parents have kind of
00:56:06
reserved themselves to the fact that that that their daughter's probably not alive anymore. Um, and but they still
00:56:13
need answers. They still deserve answers. Uh, and I hope that they get them. And I think that we might see
00:56:18
something. We have these these other two guys that are both locked up now. We got
00:56:22
the Flasher and we got this other this uh other guy that horribly killed this young woman. Um those are good strong
00:56:30
leads. The thing though too is these guys if you are if you're if you were her friend,
00:56:37
>> the four guys that you're talking about actually Lauren's friend, it's time to
00:56:42
cooperate a little more. >> Um and and I recommend you do that with your attorney at your side. But but I
00:56:49
think it's time to I think it's time to cooperate a little more. And on top of that, I also think that the police
00:56:56
should regarding the surveillance footage. Can they definitively say that she was standing at that intersection
00:57:03
after 4:30 a.m. after leaving the apartment? And was she in fact by herself? >> Yeah. And I I think like you said, if
00:57:11
you guys were friends, even if you're just acquaintances, be a man. you know, with all this talk
00:57:18
about, you know, strong women, strong men, just be a man, come forward, you know, do the right thing and and if if
00:57:26
you know something, if you don't, >> then I then I do apologize. And it's just because your involvement, you've
00:57:34
been thrown under the bus. And I want I couldn't imagine what that feels like. >> Yeah.
00:57:39
>> So, on one side, if you know something, come forward. And if you don't, then you
00:57:44
know, I'm sorry you had to deal with that. But those were also you you decided to make those choices by going
00:57:49
out and partying with her. >> You're exactly right. >> You know, you have to deal with those
00:57:53
consequences. >> I wish I had like a definitive theory of what I thought happened.
00:57:59
>> There's too much gray in this case. >> Yeah. And and just when I start going,
00:58:03
now I think these guys know something that they're just not bringing up. I then there's, you know, this flasher
00:58:09
guy, >> this other murder, and I and I think that murder is telling. I think you're
00:58:14
right, >> you know, and I think again, how are you going to get that guy to crack? Um I I
00:58:20
don't know. >> Yeah, I agree. I The thing here is I do think this case will develop more. I do
00:58:25
think that we probably will see a resolve to it. Uh the thing is it's that's what I didn't like about this
00:58:31
case is that there there is that gray area and it's very tough to give a definitive uh answer or theory as to
00:58:38
what we think happened here. If anybody has any other leads or theories, feel free to post those on our blog at true
00:58:46
crimegar.com. Do we have a recommended reading for this week? This week, we are recommending The Last Victim by Jason
00:58:53
Ross. Um, this this whole book thing that Jason Ross put together didn't start off as a book idea. This
00:59:00
originally was a college course assignment which turned into it escalated into a dangerous obsession.
00:59:07
>> Back when [clears throat] Jason Ross was 18 years old, he was an honor student.
00:59:11
Uh he wrote to some very bad men. Uh men whose bodies body counts had made criminal history. These are Dmer,
00:59:19
Manson, Ramirez, and Gayy. uh he kind of posed himself pretending to be kind of one of their ideal victims in his
00:59:28
correspondence with them. Uh and he kind of lured them in to get uh some truths and get some information from them. So
00:59:35
one by one they end up writing him back. They start showering him with their madness and their violent fantasies. Uh
00:59:42
and this kind of thing really spun out of control when John Wayne Gasey said that he would like to meet Jason and
00:59:49
eventually Jason goes to meet him. So, pick this up. It's a very interesting book. It's called The Last Victim by
00:59:55
Jason Ross. You can do that by going to our website, truerimeg.com, and click on
00:59:59
the recommended page. >> And I can't thank you enough. I can't I can't thank you enough.
01:00:04
>> Oh, you're welcome. >> Can't stop [laughter] I can't stop thanking you, Nick. No. Uh, thanks for
01:00:10
everybody for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. Make sure you follow us on Snapchat, Twitter, Untapped,
01:00:15
YouTube, whatever. Much love to you guys. And until next week, be good, be kind, and don't litter.
01:00:30
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