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foreign [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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before we dive back into this week's case let's give some thanks to our good friends first up we have Leslie and West
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around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] thank you [Music]
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at the time of Jason's death Sarah was eight and Jack was only 10 years old now Molly was the only mother in their lives
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since the death of their biological mom Sarah was three months old and Jack was two when their bio mom passed away now
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the kids remained with Molly while the courts figured out who should get them Molly initiated custody proceedings to
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formally adopt both children but Jason's Will Made for other arrangements handing
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legal guardianship over to his sister Tracy Lynch and her husband David notably Jason's will was written prior
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to his marriage to Molly but you have the will and the facts are the kids were born in Ireland and were not U.S
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citizens and Molly was not their biological mother in response to the custody dispute
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custody hearings were held the Corbett side of the family started a Facebook page called bring Jack and Sarah home to
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call attention to what they considered an injustice the kids stayed with Molly despite their
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father having mysteriously been killed in her presence there were allegations that Jason had
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not desired that his wife adopt his children that looked to be accurate according to the reports anyway court
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papers revealed that Corbett never consented for his second wife Molly to formally adopt the children during the
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custody proceedings the court heard that in the Autumn of 2014 Mali spoke to her
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attorney about her rights to the children possibly in the case of a divorce looks like Molly wanted the kids and for
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some reason Jason did not want her to adopt them eventually Sarah and Jack were returned
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to Ireland in the custody of David and Tracy Lynch after the kids were sent away Molly
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moved back in with her parents in Knoxville she enrolled in interior design classes and got back into
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swimming however on January 4th of 2016 it was announced that a grand jury had indicted
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Molly and her father Tom Martins on charges of second-degree murder and voluntary manslaughter
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Tom was allowed to turn himself in but Molly was arrested and cuffed the two were released on two hundred
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thousand dollars Bond and order to surrender their passports and not have any contact with Jason's family
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they both entered not guilty please at the end of January 2016 Molly was required to appear in court again to
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respond to a summons requiring her to explain why she had removed personal items from the couple's home in
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violation of a consent order per that order Molly was not to sell or remove any quote tangible personal
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property end quote the court issued a temporary restraining order preventing Molly from continuing to remove property
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while they sorted out what was going on what had Molly removed from the house well according to court documents
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everything except Jason's clothing and the kids stuff and items brought over by Jason from Ireland in the course of this
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inquiry it was revealed that in April of 2011 Jason Corbett transferred a very large sum of money
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reports vary somewhere between fifty thousand dollars and maybe upwards of eighty thousand dollars to Molly's
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parents this was supposedly for wedding expenses the Court ruled that Molly had to return
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all of the items that she took because there was a quote high probability that the money transferred from Jason to the
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Martins was the source of the funds that paid for the items that she eventually took the funds from a life insurance
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policy on Jason which amounted to six hundred thousand dollars as well as money from the sale of Jason's car were
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to be held in escrow pending probate proceedings and what is going to be a criminal trial
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but before we get into the criminal trial David Lynch brother-in-law of Jason and executor of his will filed a
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wrongful death suit alleging that Molly and her father intentionally willfully and maliciously assaulted Jason on
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August 2nd 2015. and so but just to be clear this insurance money Molly would receive
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yes she is to that's that's my understanding and she sold his car so this has to sit in escrow until they
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determine where this money should go where is the appropriate place for it to go because if she killed him she doesn't
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get the insurance buddy right so we know that she wanted custody of the children
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but if this is premeditation there's not guarantee that you're going to get custody of the children but it's
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guaranteed that you're going to receive this large sum of money six hundred thousand dollars and whatever assets he
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might have at the time the house cars things like that but part of this wrongful death suit
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also includes Sharon Molly's mother and Tom's wife who never faced any criminal charges in this case but the wrongful
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death suit claims that she assisted aided and abetted in the defendants in killing of Jason Corbett and in the
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concealment and destruction of evidence related to Jason's death finally we have
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the criminal trial which was set for July 2017 and I want to see the trial evidence because we are only getting
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such a small piece of the pie to this point from both law enforcement and the two suspects
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and if the authorities have more well then it's going to be at the trial when we learn what real evidence they have
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right at the commencement of the trial the prosecution informed the court that it was dropping the voluntary
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manslaughter charge and intended to pursue only the second degree murder charge which required a showing that the
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crime was committed with malice the prosecutors appeared confident that they could make the more serious charges
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stick our summation of the trial comes mainly from the extensive coverage in the West
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Salem Journal now during opening arguments the assistant district attorney told the jury
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six foot tall 260 pound Jason Corbett was beaten to death in a brutal bludgeoning attack by his wife and her
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father and that the killing was deliberate and possibly motivated by money Molly and her father were
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represented by two separate attorneys working in tandem Tom's attorney spoke first he said that
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Tom had acted in defense of his daughter after seeing her you know she's about half Jason's size being violently choked
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and threatened by her husband telling the jury quote he was not only defending his daughter he was defending himself
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next Molly's attorney told the jury that the investigators missed several pieces
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of evidence that would show that Molly and Tom were telling the truth he said that they never collected or
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tested the long blonde hair that was found in Jason's hand if they had it would have shown that he was violently
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gripping her Molly had a bloody mark on her neck that was not tested either this
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must be that little red dot further Blood on the bottoms of Jason's feet indicated that he continued to move
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around even after the blows began countering the prosecution's suggestion that Jason had been waylaid y-prone the
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picture being painted by the prosecution as the defense says was not accurate right
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well what the what they're trying to say is one of the theories is by investigators is that she actually hit
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Jason and his sleep and that's why there would be a lot of blood on the pillow now the pictures
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I've seen I have not seen this blood-soaked pillow I see some blood splatter on the bed and a little bit of
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blood splatter on the pillow so they're saying that she went in there either there was an argument or he was asleep
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and she said you know what I'm going to take this concrete block and smack him on the head with it and then
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you get smacked with a concrete block well now fight's on well we state that the defense is saying that the narrative
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put forth by the prosecution is just not accurate you kind of know what that's going to be
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what that narrative will be but let's let's hit some of the highlights real quick here one that Molly and Jason's
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marriage was in trouble with Jason making plans to return to Ireland without his wife he had not allowed her
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to adopt his children Jason was found naked and blood spattered but there were no evident injuries to
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either of the defendants they both refused medical treatment at the scene that night there was blood covering the
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walls of the master bedroom hallway bathroom and both sides of the door to the room
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Jason Corbett was killed by multiple blows to the Head including two devastating blows to the back of the
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head and at least one blow that was delivered when he was already deceased his skull quote was like a hard-boiled
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egg that had been dropped on the counter end quote the murder weapons were a Paving stone
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and a metal bat that had been wielded by both defendants which were covered in blood hair and brain matter blood
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spatters indicate that Jason was subjected to a sustained series of blows with blood spray patterns indicating
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that he was at one point near the ground when his head was struck they say quote that leaves us with why
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why didn't they stop end quote Yeah but okay one we do have Molly stating that during
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this struggle her father goes to the ground and that Jason's on the ground and she strikes Jason before he could
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then strike her father so we have that and then his possibility at the end of the struggle he is on the ground
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and possibly getting up and then he's hit again and I also think that there could be certain things that
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maybe they're not being a hundred percent truthful oh he started moving or who's shaking on the ground and so we
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hit him again so I I don't think that just because there was extra hits that that is not a
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sign of self-defense so we have the defense that's going to argue look they don't argue that Molly and Tom didn't
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kill Jason right rather as you just said self-defense they said that Tom and Sharon Martin's made a last minute
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decision to visit their daughter and her family on that Saturday because they had
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not seen the kids in quite some time in several months Jack was at that nighttime birthday party that went super
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late remember he's not picked up till like 11 o'clock and that's why Tom says Hey the bat that
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we brought to give to Jack we didn't give it to him that night because he got home so late Tom says that he was
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awakened by screams now this is a little different than the story we heard before
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but this is what we're going to hear at trial this is when it seems to me to be the most important
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and when he heard the screams he armed himself with the bat so that he could fend off anyone attacking the family
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upstairs and found Jason choking Molly at that time he says that he told him to stop but
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Jason continued to choke and the fight ensued to which Tom says he lost his glasses
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and then he lost control of the bat after Jason roughly pushed him Tom was able to regain control of the
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bat and he hit Jason until he released Molly and then he says that's when he started
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CPR the witness testimony phase of the trial commenced the state's first witness was
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Karen Capps the 911 operator who had taken Tom's call she gave much of her testimony on the
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record but outside the presence of the jury because much of it was opinion and speculative
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she told the court of the 911 surprisingly calm demeanor she also said that she was surprised
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that Tom wasn't out of breath from administering CPR since this life-saving Aid is very taxing
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she said that the female which we know to be Molly in the background was yelling her compression counts out so
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loudly it was clear she was trying to be heard attempting to save the victim the
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jury was permitted to hear the 9-1-1 call but again not much of Karen capp's testimony because it was so much of her
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just opinion rather than fact well what's your opinion of of his demeanor on the 9-1-1 call
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it's difficult it's difficult to decipher we talk about this so many times where it's like how is someone
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supposed to react you said yesterday when we were talking about it that he sounds defeated I had not thought of it
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that way and I can agree with that he does sound very matter-of-fact to me and and if in fact
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I took um well you got a Sprinkle something else into his character where this is not a this is not an attack uh
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you know where we have a husband finding their their wife attacked or or something like that we have a a former
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FBI agent that has probably been in more difficult situations than this having to make the call yeah I don't
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know what situations he's been in I couldn't imagine one more difficult than this beating a man to death with a bat
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you're right I I can get it get behind the he sounds defeated well I just mean that if you have to make this call and
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you're you're law enforcement that you know that it's not going to do you any good to be panicking
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correct that's what I'm saying yeah yeah your spot on there and then the other thing you can throw into that mix
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not only does he sound possibly defeated he could also sound tired like maybe that's why he comes off as sounding so
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calm because one he's trying to calm himself to deliver the appropriate information
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and on top of that he's tired from this this fight that broke out right physically exhausted but then here
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here's then if the Suspicious Mind where I run to is did she want her retired FBI father
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there as kind of proof positive the the uh proof is in the pudding type statement
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of well if this man who spent so much time as an FBI agent who's still working for the government with top secret uh
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clearance if he sees a situation assesses the situation and determines then and there that this is an act of
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self-defense is that going to is that going to Echo throughout the whole investigation is it going to you know
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you know what I mean is that is that the almost like the FBI putting a stamp on this was self-defense so don't question
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it I think initially that's why they didn't have them come back several times when you're investigating this and you
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go okay well it could could be self-defense and we don't have any markings on them so let's
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just bring them in 24 hours later unless again investigate their persons investigate their body take more
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pictures do it again another 24 hours later but yeah is this could this be premeditation where she knows that that
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this investigation could be painted with a certain rose petal glasses you know of
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the FBI right and then we have this is this is where we need somebody to come on the blog and educate
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us a bit because we talked about the the toxicology report we have this statement this is from
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Sergeant Barry alphen he is one of the Davidson County EMS workers big shout out to the EMS workers out there thank
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you for everything he said that he found Jason to be cold to the touch and with dried blood on his
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body the cold to the touch is the thing I want some education on because one thing
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that we stated right Captain was that the the 9-1-1 call was a almost 15 minutes long and I'm
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imagining a few minutes took place between the end of the fight and when the call was placed
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how quickly is this man going to start to feel cool to the touch well he has no clothes on so how right that's going to
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speed things up and also what is the temperature of the house it's a cool 32 degrees Yeah I mean like
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no I'm serious though no I know I'm I'm just being an ass um here's the here's the gross part is
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and this is a statement from his dong was this his testimony this is the the EMS worker says that when he placed his
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hands on Jason's head you know he's trying to move him when he place his hands on his head it's his here's a
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direct quote I put my hand under the scalp my left hand went all into the skull and that that's just
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affirmation of the of how badly the the wounds and the the the destruction to the skull was now EMS workers remember
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we had at least four at the scene that we are aware of from the newspaper reports EMS workers testified how they
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found the two children sleeping on the second floor and told the children to close their eyes as They Carried Jason
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from the house the medical examiner Dr Craig Nelson testified that Jason was hit at least 12
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times like we said but the damage was so extensive that the exact number of blows
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could not be determined he said that when he took the scalp off the head for examination chunks of skull fell out
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onto the examining table he testified that Jason was hit in at least 10 different places on his
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body including his torso his hands and his knees several of the wounds were quote complex lacerations meaning that
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he was struck in the same spot more than once autopsy photos were shown causing one of
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the jurors to throw up in a trash can Dr Nelson went on to say that the talk screen run on Jason showed that he had
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traces of trazodone in his system this was a powerful sleep aid prescribed to Molly on July 30th just three days
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before Jason's death Jason was not known to suffer from any sleep issues the prosecution hinted that perhaps Molly
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had attempted to drug Jason and actually implied that Molly had put the trezidone
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into a Mojito that Jason drank a former Davidson County Deputy who responded to the scene testified about
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his observations said that he escorted Molly to his patrol car and stayed with her he said
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Molly appeared upset testifying that quote she was making crying noises but I didn't see any visible tears speaking of
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forensic evidence all forensic analyst with the state crime lab served as state Witnesses and they
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testified that both the bat and the concrete paving brick were covered in blood hair and Jason Corbett's DNA
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was found on both of the items this makes sense obviously Molly and Tom admitted hitting Jason with both of
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these items although we go back to Molly's written statement only admitted to attempting to hit Jason
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with it 12 hairs belonging to Jason Corbett were found this was taken from the concrete paving brick the pictures I
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saw Captain showed the brick just covered in blood and hair well like I was saying to you I think off record was
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this brick is going to be it's gonna have a some pores to it so it's going to soak
00:25:50
up blood differently than the bat would right now one of the final Witnesses for the
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prosecution was the blood spatter expert his name is Stuart James who was introduced as a specialist in
00:26:04
blood stain pattern analysis he testified that dents were visible low down on the wall of the master bedroom
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where Jason died he said that these dents indicate that Jason was beaten at one point while he
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was close to the ground or on the ground and a pattern of blood spatter low on the wall suggests that Jason was struck
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more than once while he was falling to the ground James also testified that dried blood
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spatter on the inside leg area of Tom's boxer shorts and on the bottom of Molly's pajama pants suggests that the
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two were above and over Jason Corbett's head as he was being struck James said a vacuum cleaner was sitting
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upright at the West Wall of the master bedroom as seen in the crime scene photos the one that I was talking about
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he said there were blood spatters behind the vacuum and a pattern of blood spatter flowing from side to side on the
00:27:03
vacuum cleaner he says quote it tells me that the vacuum cleaner was on its side
00:27:08
when the blood was deposited on the vacuum cleaner and it was long enough for it to dry
00:27:14
it shows an alteration in the scene prior to these photos being taken end quote the implication was that Molly and Tom
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had moved some things around in the room possibly staging the scene prior to calling 9-1-1
00:27:32
and we do know some of this timeline and rather great detail and so if they were to Stage anything
00:27:41
the staging has to go on prior to the 9-1-1 call or during the 9-1-1 call again much of that 9-1-1 call is them
00:27:51
it's thought that they're administering CPR during that call but they could be pretending to do so
00:27:57
and the reasons why I state that we we know this that that could be an option here is that we have the statements of
00:28:06
the EMS workers and the statements of police officers that say look they were on 9-1-1 for 14 minutes and 27 seconds
00:28:14
on that call at the end of the call we can hear EMS the first crew of two arriving and they are going into the
00:28:21
master bedroom to which you can hear Tom and Molly leaving the room as the 911 operator tells them let them do their
00:28:30
jobs when the police arrive within just like it's like two minutes later when the police arrive they find the two of
00:28:37
them that being Molly and Tom on the front porch so we have that little detail that part
00:28:43
of the timeline is is known to be fact it's known to be true because we have others to tell us
00:28:49
uh what what took place back to the blood guy he also pointed out that impact blood
00:28:56
spatter on part of the bed and large blood stains were on the bed skirting he said that this evidence suggested
00:29:05
that Jason was first struck at or near the bed also Sharon Martin's Tom's wife and
00:29:13
Molly's mother remained in the guest bedroom in the basement despite all of this commotion
00:29:18
and the kids seemingly remained asleep that's a that's kind of weird too in this
00:29:24
and when we go through the crime scene as well if there's this big fight going on upstairs
00:29:30
Sharon didn't do anything yeah this well yeah she didn't call 9-1-1 that's what I
00:29:35
don't like because you would assume well my husband is in danger because Jason's
00:29:39
a bigger man but you don't call 9-1-1 the children don't wake up but also when you see a
00:29:46
picture of this house this is a large house yes and and um my former stepsons you could vacuum
00:29:55
in their room and they wouldn't wake up that might explain away why the kids didn't hear anything
00:30:08
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visit lightstream.com TCG for more information [Music] [Applause] [Music] all right cheers mates
00:31:47
cheers to you a lot going on me cheers to we cheers to everybody all across the land this case is really
00:31:57
frustrating I mean a lot of them are but this one it's like what is the truth because we do have things of evidence
00:32:06
that that suggests the story that they're telling Tom and Molly what they're telling is not true
00:32:13
but there's so much of when Tom talks that I believe what he's saying yeah I was talking with somebody last week and
00:32:21
they were saying Hey listen to your your case last week and it was a it was a difficult one it was a tough one and I
00:32:28
said yeah the the easy cases don't make it on the show right so now Captain we have the time where
00:32:35
the defense gets the fight back right the prosecution has rested its case the defense is going to fight back for one
00:32:43
thing they say while the that drug prescribed to Molly was in Jason's system they did a good job of managing to
00:32:53
create some doubt as to whether Jason could have been self-medicating maybe he's dipping into her pill bottle
00:32:59
they produce records detailing multiple recent doctors visits and tests the physician's assistant who treated Jason
00:33:07
observed signs of depression and Jason had been treated for a thyroid condition and notes from the from a visit just two
00:33:16
weeks before Jason's death state that Jason said he this is his words Jason said quote recently became angry
00:33:25
for no reason defense lawyers had already decided that Molly would not testify but in what can only be described as a
00:33:35
gamble Tom Martins took the stand to testify in his own defense it's likely that his lawyers were hoping that his
00:33:43
pristine reputation as a decades-long Lawman would have some Sway With the jury why and like I said I I just find
00:33:53
him to be believable I I will not disagree with that Tom said that he woke up that night because he heard thumping
00:34:02
loud thumping loud foot falls and heard screams and loud voices there was an obvious disturbance going on
00:34:10
above me he says I grabbed the bat ran upstairs and I heard that the noises were coming from the master bedroom in
00:34:16
front of me I would say seven or eight feet in front of me Jason had his hands around Molly's neck facing each other he
00:34:23
says she was a little to the right he was a little to the left he said at first Jason had his hands around Molly's
00:34:30
throat but then as you described very well earlier now he's he's manipulated that a bit and he's trying to drag her
00:34:38
off to which Tom says he Jason is stating I'm going to kill her Tom saying let her
00:34:45
go he's threatening again here's the thing that that's troubling with the whole Tom
00:34:51
portion of this I don't know if it's his calm demeanor his defeated demeanor whatever we want
00:34:57
to call it or a combination of the both but you're right it his delivery is believable his delivery of the story I
00:35:05
don't want to get too much into the words because that's where I have some questions about it but his delivery of
00:35:11
the story feels to me like a guy like I'm looking at a guy that's telling the truth well
00:35:16
and even if they're waited a little bit because this is a a big deal that just happened
00:35:22
your son-in-law which you might have liked maybe you disliked don't know it was choking your daughter and then you
00:35:30
and then you have to attack him you have to you know fight you know and like he says at one point
00:35:38
when you're in a fight it might go to death and you have to know that yeah and again I think that's
00:35:45
more of something that's coming from law enforcement or the his FBI background whether you you might have disliked him
00:35:53
but you have a guy that is dead and and by your hands and you you're the one that has to call
00:36:00
9-1-1 so I I believe him more because they called 9-1-1 there's other things they
00:36:06
could have done to try to cover this up if it was premeditated well and he describes a motion too in
00:36:13
his recanting you know when he's trying to tell us what's going on that night you know he says Jason was really angry
00:36:23
I Tom was really scared and he does go on to say that he was worried that if Jason made it to that
00:36:34
bathroom like you pointed out in yesterday's show with his daughter and close the door
00:36:41
there would be some real trouble that he wouldn't be able to gain control of the
00:36:46
situation or even save his daughter right you know he goes on to say that I I hit Jason I hit him until he goes down
00:36:54
and I stepped away I don't know how many times I hit him I hit him until I thought he could not kill me as I felt
00:37:02
both of our lives were in danger I did the best I could he did choke up while on the stand well again part of his
00:37:12
story goes with what the medical examiner is telling us he was hit multiple times
00:37:19
so when he did he he's not giving you a number he's not saying why I whacked him
00:37:23
he's telling you I whacked him a few times when he was up but when he was down I hit him so many
00:37:31
times that I knew he wouldn't be able to move under how hard were those hits you know
00:37:37
yeah yeah and under cross-examination the prosecutors did try to suggest that Tom
00:37:42
and Molly faked the CPR that they were giving to Jason now closing argument summed up both
00:37:50
sides of the case for the jury prosecutors emphasized that Tom and Molly bludgeon Jason with a metal bat
00:37:57
and a concrete paving brick crushing his skull and continuing to hit him after he
00:38:02
had fallen and then had cooked up their tale of self-defense there were some courtroom Dramatics as described in the
00:38:12
Winston-Salem Journal assistant district attorney Alan Martin grabbed the 28-inch
00:38:19
Louisville Slugger bat and slammed it over and over onto the prosecution's table
00:38:25
in the courtroom with ever increasing Force asking jurors to imagine that the table was Irish
00:38:34
businessmen's Jason Corbett's head every slam to the table was described as a shock to the ear
00:38:43
he also slammed the table with a concrete paving brick that along with the bat prosecutors say killed Corbett
00:38:50
Martin walked over to the defense table and pointed to Tom and Molly and said quote
00:38:58
they killed him he killed Jason with a bat and she killed him with that brick they literally beat the skin off his
00:39:06
skull with that bat in that brick in their closing arguments attorneys for the defendant said prosecutors failed to
00:39:14
provide any compelling evidence that disproves what Tom and Molly told investigators in other words the
00:39:20
prosecution had not met their burden of proving Beyond a reasonable doubt that Molly and Tom were lying I mean again
00:39:28
this is why it's so tricky because they're trying to say you killed this man and then their defense is yeah yeah
00:39:34
we we did we told you we did yeah we're not trying to cover that up we we killed him how
00:39:43
many times you hit him in the head I don't know I hit him until I thought he couldn't hurt me or my daughter it's
00:39:48
very tricky they also pointed out the defense pointed out that Jason had been verbally and physically abusive for
00:39:56
years this in their closing arguments I don't I there was tapes of this and I don't know if you heard some of the
00:40:02
clips um but I don't think this was allowed to be heard by the jury yeah I heard there
00:40:10
there were some of these tapes this was from when she look she's trying to gain some kind
00:40:17
of custody of these kids she's telling her attorneys that this man is abusive physically and verbally so they tell her
00:40:25
why don't you record some things when he doesn't know that you're recording him right so that we
00:40:33
can prove later if needed that that he is abusive be it verbally and or physically so yeah there were some there
00:40:42
was some tapes of this and some proof of that and we'll get into that in a bit but the the jury deliberated for less
00:40:47
than four hours before returning with a verdict the state of North Carolina versus Molly Martin's Corbett and verse
00:40:54
Thomas Michael Martins both were found guilty of second-degree murder as Molly was led out of the courtroom
00:41:02
she said I'm sorry Mom I wish he had killed me later when she was given the opportunity to speak before judge Lee
00:41:10
sentenced her Molly statements statement was quote I did not murder my husband my
00:41:18
father did not murder my husband the events of August 2nd happened on a regular basis the difference is that my
00:41:26
father was there yeah and there was also a I believe a statement from the son that was which I don't think they were
00:41:34
again I don't think this was um either given to defense or defense was able to use this but it was the
00:41:42
statement saying that his father was verbally and physically abusive Judge David Lee sentenced Tom and Molly to 20
00:41:50
to 25 years in prison each the judge who had reviewed the psychological report on
00:41:57
Molly submitted by the defense team stated that Molly should seek psychiatric help in prison there was no
00:42:04
real explanation to this part of the trial what my guess is because she had Molly had a past history of some issues
00:42:14
that maybe her defense team quietly submitted this to the judge for his review as a possible
00:42:24
I don't know as a as some kind of possible defense that wasn't presented to the jury now remember that wrongful
00:42:31
death civil suit that was filed against Molly and Tom this settlement was reached in March of 2019 it called for a
00:42:39
payment to Sarah and Jack Corbett to the children in the amount of seven hundred
00:42:44
and fifty thousand dollars this gets a little complicated but I'm just going to simplify it Molly and Tom
00:42:50
did not admit any liability as part of the settlement they did not have to admit liability right and further Molly
00:42:59
was dismissed from the lawsuit after she filed documents renouncing her claim to
00:43:04
Jason's life insurance money so basically the life insurance money goes to the kids yep probably the sale of the
00:43:10
house goes to the kids at any of the property sales goes to the kids yeah so not admitting any guilt but just
00:43:18
reallocating all that those funds taking herself out of it freezer up from that there's a whole lot of legal minutia
00:43:26
involved in this and you were getting into it a bit there um one thing is the conflicting
00:43:32
narratives that we saw throughout this case at trial and before and even after basically you have the story told by Tom
00:43:43
and Molly that they they did all this in self-defense and the defense of his daughter and the defense of himself you
00:43:50
know and that ongoing part of that narrative is the abuse and the verbal abuse that took place for years as she
00:43:59
said then we have the opposite side where we have the lynches who end up getting the
00:44:05
kids and the ones that filed the wrongful death suit that are saying completely the the opposite where Molly
00:44:13
was this terrible person and unbearable and you couldn't get along with her and she's spending large sums of money and
00:44:18
Jason was Fed Up and miserable and he was planning on leaving her and taking the kids and going back to to Ireland we
00:44:27
can you can really get lost in all of that crap if you want to there's a whole lot of it to digest and a whole lot of
00:44:34
it to go through and try to figure out who's right and who's wrong I don't like to digest crap no nobody
00:44:41
does and the thing is I I just find I want to know what your what you think of all this well I find it too hard to
00:44:49
believe that there's such a big swing in the truth I think maybe the truth somewhere in the middle because like you
00:44:58
said we have the kids that do do point out they they say man like they they said when they were interviewed by
00:45:05
social workers shortly after Jason's death saying yeah and they they called Molly mom so we'll just call her mom
00:45:12
yeah Mom uh dad would yell at mom we'd call her names would would I think that he said slap her pull her hair stomp on
00:45:20
her feet yeah when you hear the the tapes I mean he's he's blowing up over the dumbest [ __ ] well we have his words
00:45:28
at his at his doctor visit where he's saying I'm becoming angry for no reason then you have the reverse of that
00:45:36
where after the kids moved back to Ireland and they are under the watchful eye of aunt and uncle
00:45:44
that they're saying ah I made up all of that abuse stuff that stuff didn't happen my dad was just you know he was
00:45:50
miserable he wanted to get out of there there was no abuse it seems to me the problem with both of
00:45:57
these scenarios is these kids were young enough ten and eight they could have been coached either way for for either
00:46:03
one of these sit Downs yeah but you can't you can't fake the tapes no you cannot I mean you can manipulate the
00:46:10
situation and you and maybe you're not maybe there wasn't that many situations where Molly was trying to start an
00:46:17
argument but maybe she did you know I'll poke the bear poke the bear oh hit record you know right right that would
00:46:24
be easy to do yeah so but what what what's your take on everything like do you think that
00:46:30
this was premeditated or well I let's let's save that portion for the conclusion because I think that's what
00:46:36
we're going to be left with is is our opinions I do want to get into some of this legal minutia a bit and I'm I'm
00:46:44
really summarizing this but I think it's stuff that needs to be covered one thing
00:46:48
that was pointed out was that there was jury misconduct allegations this came out just a week after the verdict from
00:46:57
the criminal trial where Molly's attorneys and toms attorneys filed a motion asking the
00:47:02
judge to set aside the jury verdict alleging jury misconduct the defense motion asked the judge to order a new
00:47:11
trial or at the very least to hold an evidentiary hearing into this misconduct issue
00:47:18
now without getting into it too much I'll give my opinion on this there was jury misconduct at this trial
00:47:28
because what we will learn is through social media posts and through interviews that the jurors did right
00:47:35
after the trial they were saying things that were not presented at the trial but
00:47:39
were presented in the media so against the judge's orders they were paying attention to outside sources not just
00:47:48
what they were hearing at the trial right and so that is jury misconduct there's no way getting around that so
00:47:56
they're not supposed to be talking or listening to outside sources which we have proof that they did and they
00:48:03
weren't supposed to be discussing issues with one another which they did there's
00:48:07
there's proof of that as well so it's weird because despite all this evidence that the jurors were being influenced by
00:48:14
outside sources the the judge did deny the defense's jury misconduct motion and stated that there would be no new trial
00:48:22
it's a weird situation Captain because I don't know how much it actually I that I
00:48:28
actually think that it influenced their verdict it had it happened but I don't know that
00:48:34
it actually influenced their verdict right I agree with that because the outside sources that was obvious that
00:48:40
they were listening to were all those news magazine shows that we talked about 20 20 48 hours so on and so forth all of
00:48:48
those outside sources seem to present a pretty 50 50 argument in my opinion right it they weren't they weren't
00:48:57
structured like some documentaries to sway you one way or the other it was pretty
00:49:04
straight down the middle in my opinion there were there ended up being some appeals there was a three-judge panel
00:49:10
that heard arguments that the clients Molly and Tom did not receive a fair trial uh they maintained that the state
00:49:18
did not prove Beyond a reasonable doubt that Molly and Tom acted in self-defense
00:49:22
or had not acted in self-defense and they pointed out the certain evidence that was left out
00:49:30
of the trial it should have been disclosed to the jury and some of that was statements that you said like like
00:49:38
the the recordings and the possible statements from the children that were given to social workers shortly after
00:49:45
Jason's death the Appellate Court found that the state prosecutors did fail to present any evidence to contradict Tom's
00:49:54
version of events and the fact that Tom and Molly had no visible injuries was not significant again the jury
00:50:02
misconduct was dismissed but unfortunately even through all of these appeals and everything that was going on
00:50:09
with all of this legal jumble you know whole messed up thing unfortunately for Tom and Molly the
00:50:16
Appellate Court's decision was split two to one the split decision means that the
00:50:21
state has grounds to appeal the ruling and on February 21st 2020 State prosecutors filed a petition with the
00:50:31
new North Carolina Supreme Court asking it to impose a temporary stay on the new trial pending their filing of
00:50:39
a notice of appeal expected this in the next couple of months so it will be interesting to see
00:50:48
what happens with all of this we have the Winston-Salem Journal saying it could take more than a year before the North
00:50:56
Carolina Supreme Court rules on whether or not a new trial will occur if a new trial does happen it will be
00:51:05
very interesting to see whether the outcome is different I personally you keep asking me of my opinion I wasn't
00:51:12
trying to put you off captain but it's my birthday answer my damn question right right well here we go I I
00:51:20
personally think that the the outcome won't be different I think that a new trial will be a waste of time
00:51:29
I do disagree with the court I do think that there was jury misconduct but again
00:51:33
I don't know how much that will change the verdict if we want it to be nice and clean and tidy then we should have a new
00:51:41
trial but again I don't know that the verdict will come out any differently I actually believe I truly feel like
00:51:47
murder in the second degree for both Tom and Molly is not only the most appropriate charge but very likely the
00:51:54
correct charge to me I feel like the blood evidence found in the master bedroom on the walls
00:52:00
on the baseboards on both sides of the door on the door jamb on the Rock and on the bat and as seen in the crime scene
00:52:08
photos paints an almost perfect picture to me the problem with this case and we see this in a lot of other cases too and
00:52:16
I don't I don't understand why this this happens again it not only the the swing the
00:52:24
broad swing and the truth between what was actually going on in the house before the death was Jason abusive was
00:52:32
he verbally abusive how much how terrible was this living situation or was Jason miserable and wanted to leave
00:52:40
and take his kids and Molly was this horrible person that's a that's a big swing I think the truth is somewhere in
00:52:46
the middle I think that he probably was somewhat abusive I think it could you know verbally and possibly physically as
00:52:55
well I also think that Molly could have been a miserable person to live with I also think that Jason could be in the
00:53:02
process of leaving her oh I mean there's some speculation that his first wife's death was because of his
00:53:09
abuse that seems like hogwash to me well no because it's somebody that has asthmatic
00:53:16
symptoms if you were choked uh and and Molly is claiming that she was choked multiple times and he would
00:53:23
choke her and shake her that's very that could cause a asthmatic attack yeah I to
00:53:30
me I that's reminiscent of the Michael Peterson situation and I don't see the same situation here I think it's it's
00:53:39
coincidental one the a big difference between the two is his first wife is dead and now he is
00:53:47
dead where Michael Peterson both of his wives died under the same mysterious circumstances right
00:53:56
so I mean that's interesting to ponder and anybody that that believes that that's a
00:54:02
possibility I'm not not coming after that I I just really don't want to touch it because I don't think that there's
00:54:08
enough to suggest that that could be the case the the thing that I have a problem
00:54:12
with is that there's such a big difference between the two narratives of what was actually going on in the family
00:54:19
in the family Dynamic the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and then I have to take that a step further
00:54:26
and wonder if that's the same thing with Jason's death was this not 100 premeditated planned
00:54:34
out cold-blooded murder in the way that we often think of it right and was this not 100
00:54:40
self-defense or the defense of another but somewhere in that horrible violent gray area between is the truth
00:54:51
sitting in there and that's why I think the second degree murder charges are the most appropriate
00:55:00
I don't see evidence that you can clearly sell to a jury that this was 100 premeditated
00:55:09
I also question things that we see at the crime scene and the blood spatter evidence and
00:55:16
things within that bedroom that make me not fully believe the self-defense angle
00:55:21
of it either what say you Mr Captain well I think uh I'm gonna use a quote from uh the famous one of the
00:55:31
greatest men in history Forrest Gump and say that maybe both is happening at the same time
00:55:40
that I believe so much of what Tom is saying what Molly's dad is saying about self-defense
00:55:49
and I also again I think some of his their vague answers but I hit him until I didn't think he would hurt me or my
00:55:58
daughter well that's not giving us a exact number so I don't think that goes against the
00:56:03
medical examiners where I have a problem with this is Molly Molly initially says
00:56:10
that I did hit him with this concrete block we know that this block is covered in blood we know this block was used as
00:56:18
a weapon from everybody from Molly initially from Tom from the medical examiners to the
00:56:26
investigators where I question just like you said with the door shut does she start by hitting him
00:56:35
does he get in her face and she goes that's it and she uses it then or is it or is there a possibility
00:56:44
and what her almost her original statements were was kind of once the fight was done
00:56:52
that she hid him with the brick because she was afraid that he was going to come back too
00:56:59
so I believe that Tom thought everything that they were doing was justified and that he was acting in self-defense
00:57:09
because I don't think but Tom believes that he would kill a man if it wasn't in self-defense I just
00:57:16
think there's probably some actions either beforehand or after or maybe even during that
00:57:25
Molly is not being truthful about and so I I think it can be both at the same time
00:57:33
but then then you almost have to give them separate trials so to me yes it's second degree murder
00:57:40
when it comes to Molly I believe it's self-defense when it comes to Tom that's interesting that's
00:57:46
very interesting because that's one one thought that that I was thinking along the way to is there a chance that
00:57:53
this is premeditated on Molly's behalf but by the time Tom is witnessing the scene
00:58:02
that she is in fact being choked but maybe she's being choked by Jason defending himself right because he gets
00:58:11
whacked in the head with a brick and now he's so angry or so and been hit that he's does say I'm going to kill her and
00:58:19
Tom sees the hands on the throat and goes after him and so could you have a situation here where she
00:58:28
plan this thing out manipulated this thing because I I have a very hard time believing look I understand you're going
00:58:37
to paint this this Garden brick this paver brick and you brought it into the house for
00:58:44
that purpose keeping it on your nightstand does not seem like a logical place to put it that doesn't prove again
00:58:50
just like everything else I've pointed out in these episodes does not prove anything but it is suspicious so do you
00:58:57
have a situation where she's she has already administered an attack on Jason Tom hears this attack and by the time he
00:59:09
sees the scene Jason's hands are on her throat he goes after Jason with the bat well again investigators say that she
00:59:17
hit him when he was laying down I just don't see the evidence but again we don't have every angle and every picture
00:59:24
that they have they didn't release them all if there is a blood-soaked pillow that they claim that there is
00:59:32
well then then he probably was hit in the head while he was laying around and that's a bit of a mystery to us because
00:59:38
out of all the photos we've seen and there's a there's a a plethora of them um we did not see I did not see the the
00:59:47
pillow would you say there was a plethora that's right uh I will I will post as many they are graphic but I'll
00:59:55
post those on Instagram at True Crime garage they're graphic but they're important and here's the other thing
01:00:01
captain that I that I really wander about and when we try to decipher we're really dissecting Mali statements
01:00:11
and Tom statements and trying to figure out which ones are truthful and which ones are fabricated
01:00:18
to me I think the most truthful statement that came out of either of them came from Tom
01:00:25
when he tells the 9-1-1 operator I may have killed him right the reason why I feel it like that one
01:00:34
is the most truthful statement from either of them I wonder if that's exactly how Tom feels
01:00:42
does he not know for certain if he killed Jason or if Molly did all right I want to thank everybody for
01:01:06
joining us here in the garage do we have any recommended reading this week yes we
01:01:12
do Captain this week we are recommending the lost family how DNA testing is upending who we are this is by Libby
01:01:20
Copeland this is fascinating it's a fascinating read it's something that we all should take a look at we have so
01:01:27
many cases that are being solved these days by DNA testing just a little knowledge here for you you don't have to
01:01:33
write that title down right now you can go to our website truecrimegarage.com and we will have the
01:01:40
lost family there for you as well as plenty of other recommendations when you're at the website sign up on the
01:01:46
mailing list because as the people know on the mailing list they just save 20 in
01:01:51
the store just for being a part of the True Crime garage Army and until next week be good be kind and don't let her
01:02:00
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