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00:01:16
Welcome to Off The Record. I'm your [music] host, Nick. Off The Record It's good to be seen, and it's
00:01:23
good to see you. Off The Record. Thanks for listening. Thanks for telling a friend. True crime
00:01:29
podcast podcast Be good. Be kind. And don't look back. Off The Record Gather around. Grab a chair. Grab a
00:01:37
beer. Let's talk some true crime. And the mystery continues. Man walks into a bar,
00:01:44
is never seen again. In 2006, Brian Shaffer, 27-year-old medical student at The Ohio State University,
00:01:55
goes to The Ugly Tuna Saloona with his friends Clint and Meredith to meet another set of friends.
00:02:02
There he talks to many people and there's many theories, thoughts, and speculations.
00:02:09
So, we kind of want to conclude the conversation with what are the theories out there? What are the questions that
00:02:17
we would love to have answered? And where do we go from here? So, Kelly from Brian Shaffer Dead or
00:02:23
Alive, let's start going through the theories. >> Okay, well, let's start with suicide.
00:02:30
You know, this theory isn't mentioned [clears throat] as often as others are, but it's definitely something that I
00:02:35
consider. After all, Brian had a lot of stress in his life. His mom had just passed away and he was a medical school
00:02:44
student, which we know is I mean, that's difficult to be in the medical school and the testing alone is
00:02:50
crazy. >> Yeah, there's pressure. >> So, what are your thoughts on suicide? >> And anytime you have a missing person
00:02:55
case, this this is one of the options. I think the difficulty here is well, we have no evidence that he gets back to
00:03:06
his apartment. We have But, we don't have any evidence that he doesn't. But, what we definitely do have evidence
00:03:12
of is that he didn't kill himself within side the apartment. I think the tough thing about this theory is if there's no
00:03:20
body, how can you lean towards suicide? Yeah, the suicide one is a very difficult one for me to
00:03:28
put a high likelihood on. I would keep the percentage pretty low. We've talked about this on the show often. We attempt
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to understand mental health concerns here on the show the best that we can and we recognize,
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the captain and I recognize and have talked about this that suicide is a difficult one in any scenario to decide
00:03:56
how much weight to put into that idea. And because it can be and I think often times,
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far too often, it can be very impulsive. And so, just by that nature, impulsivity, that it doesn't require a
00:04:16
whole lot of evidence or suspicion of that being a potential prior to someone committing that act. So, it gets very
00:04:26
difficult to how much weight do we put into it? But, to analyze Brian's scenario, one thing that I found very
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interesting from talking with you guys and one of the things I learned was the thought that he
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had expressed to at least one person, probably several people, you know, and he may have been joking. I
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don't know the tone of this statement, say, "Hey, this medical school thing is just something, you know, I thought was
00:04:54
going to be a good idea, but it but really it's about my band, you know, my band if my guitar playing days takes
00:05:00
off, then that's what I would really like to be doing." So, that to me like almost gives him a buffer from the
00:05:08
pressures of those testing and reaching that goal. It almost seems like while his head might have been in it,
00:05:16
his heart may not have been in it. So, I think that gives him a little bit of a buffer there. I'm with the captain, too.
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I think there would have been evidence as such. I think we would have found Brian. I think that So, I I don't
00:05:28
put a whole lot of I don't think that's the foundation of that theory, I think is awfully weak.
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>> I think the only strong part of that theory is that Brian did suffer from depression and he was on Prozac at one
00:05:43
point in time and no one can tell me actually when he went off of it or if went off of it with a doctor's help, or
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if he struggled going off the medication, but you know, going off of a medication cold turkey can cause you to
00:05:56
have some issues. >> Well, I think his mental state, I think this is more of a examination of his mental
00:06:02
state, and I think this is really important. Because some people say, "Well, you know, Brian drank, but he
00:06:07
wouldn't have done drugs." Well, maybe Brian that's not super depressed wouldn't do drugs, but maybe
00:06:15
Brian in a grieving state losing his mother maybe would. So, that can lead to speculation of what
00:06:22
would happen. My other curiosity here would be his mental state on was there a motivation? Okay,
00:06:31
let's just say hypothetically he was in a depressed state, and the idea was I'm going to go somewhere,
00:06:38
an island, to Florida, somewhere where there's a beach or whatever, and I'm going to go
00:06:45
there maybe with the motivation that I'm going to end things, but once he gets there decides not to. You have these
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items like his car. If you were going to go to an airport knowing that you're going to fly somewhere
00:07:02
and take your life, you probably really wouldn't care if somebody found your car
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later. Mhm. Unless again and there's no evidence of this that he wanted to go missing and to make
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him going missing a spectacle. There's other missing person cases that I've looked into where people have talked
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about the idea of going missing, but wanting it to be this like romanticized notion of I'm going to go missing and
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then people going to wonder what happened to me. I don't think we have any evidence of that, but what we do
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have evidence of is Brian asking people, "Hey, would you run away with me?" So, to me that goes, "Okay, well,
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I would lean more towards him wanting to start a new life or to get rid of an old
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life." And then the comments about medical school, I kind of wonder, and I had several
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friends that were going to school for something. Now, obviously in the medical field it'd
00:08:05
be more difficult, but there's a possibility that Brian got to a certain point in his
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school career where he's just like, "I'm going to finish what I started." That doesn't mean he's going to continue that
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as a career later. But I think examining this as a as where he he was at mentally, and I think that
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raises a lot of questions. So, the next theory that I want to go into is that Brian walked away from his life.
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This is actually one that I read on the internet a whole lot when I first started looking into Brian's
00:08:44
case, but it was one that I actually didn't think was possible, but I can find some possibilities in it now.
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For every reason that I gave that, you know, Brian would have committed suicide, it also works for Brian walking
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away from his life. He was dealing with the stress of his mom passing away, he was dealing
00:09:03
with the stress of medical school, there was tension between him and his dad. I mean, there were a lot of reasons that
00:09:10
Brian could have wanted to walk away from his life. Yeah, and some of the questions I have here is like with this
00:09:17
lead of the homeless guy out in San Diego, because you don't know, again, mental state. If I just go and I'm just
00:09:29
trying to get away for a while, at some point you probably will hear that people
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are looking for you back home. And maybe even checking in from time to time. And then again, what what it was
00:09:42
his mental state, is it possible is it possible and it's extremely possible that he would then self- medicate to try
00:09:50
to get away from these feelings and would that self-medication lead to him being homeless out in San Diego. I also
00:09:58
think this picture of Brian at this party, if it's Brian, now I kind of lean towards it's not.
00:10:07
I think the colonel agrees with me, but it's really hard to see when somebody's wearing giant Elton John Jackie Onassis
00:10:15
glasses. But is this a picture before he went missing or is this a picture that he
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went after he went missing. And then the rocker picture, the guy rocking out with
00:10:27
the guitar, is this evidence of Brian starting a new life? I'd have to say no because we have no proof that is
00:10:34
Brian. But I think the comments or the question that he asked his girlfriend, "Would you run away with me?"
00:10:43
I think that is probably the best evidence that it's possible that he would have wanted to start a new
00:10:50
life. And then by his car and everything being there and not taking anything, "Hey, I'm just going to pack a light
00:10:57
book bag and go." And then we have also eyewitnesses that knew him, neighbors, they claimed that they saw Brian Shafer
00:11:06
after the night at Ugly Tuna Saloona. So, then we also have other tips and eyewitnesses that claim to see
00:11:15
somebody that looked like Brian Shafer in other parts of the world. So, I think this is a this is a possibility. A lot
00:11:24
of people have speculated because Brian Shafer was into the band Pearl Jam, so much into the band that he gets a Pearl
00:11:32
Jam tattoo. That is commitment, people. But a lot of people have put the Alexander
00:11:42
Supertramp story from the movie Into the Wild, adapted from the book. That's some wild speculation.
00:11:51
I think if you found on his coffee table the book Into the Wild, well, then maybe
00:11:57
you can convince me that Brian Shaffer was like, "Hey, I'm going to start a new life. I'm going to
00:12:02
start calling myself Alexander Supertramp." But I But I think there's pieces of leads, and I don't want to say
00:12:10
evidence, but there's pieces of leads or pieces of tips that would make that a real possibility. And out of all the
00:12:19
missing person cases, again, when you're looking at these missing person cases, there's Oh,
00:12:24
did they commit suicide? Did they run away? Was there foul play? These are things that you have to look
00:12:31
into. I think out of all the cases I've looked into, somebody starting a new life, there's a lot of weight
00:12:40
to that idea. Lack of proof, but a lot of weight there. Let me address my opinion on the
00:12:47
photographs of persons who people have said, "Maybe this is Brian Shaffer." I think, to put them in order, the one
00:12:56
that looks the most like Brian to me is the homeless guy picture, then maybe the Well, I
00:13:01
think I referred to it as the Superfly Jimmy Snuka rocker photo is probably second, uh but a distant second. And
00:13:08
then the four guys at the the hanging out or gathering, I I mean, I think it I have a very difficult time saying that
00:13:18
that looks like Brian to me, but that's just how it hits my eyes. That's just how I see that picture. I know a lot of
00:13:24
people have a different opinion on that photograph. But to me, I look at it, stare at it, and I I even looking at
00:13:32
it now, I don't think it looks like Brian really at all. So, I agree with you on the pictures.
00:13:38
But, the one thing that's interesting about the party picture where there's four individuals
00:13:44
is I think at least two of the guys that are in that picture are two individuals that were at the
00:13:52
Ugly Tuna that night Brian went missing. So, where the homeless guy it's just a homeless guy, there's nothing in the
00:13:59
picture that tips us off to this could be Brian. And then same way with the Jimmy
00:14:06
Flysnuka rocker picture. Nothing tips us off to something in the background that tells us it's Brian
00:14:15
Shaffer. But, I think the party picture where me and you both agree out of all the
00:14:20
pictures, that's the one that looks least like Brian. But, the other individuals in the
00:14:26
picture Am Am I getting that right, Kelly, that two it's only two of the guys? Three. Three of the guys in the
00:14:32
picture were out with Brian that night and on his cell phone records. Yeah, so to me
00:14:39
you go, well at least there's background evidence that that could be Brian Shaffer. But But, continue on on
00:14:47
your thoughts on on Brian starting a new life. >> Yeah, that makes that makes that picture
00:14:53
incredibly interesting. But, again, to me it looks so little like Brian that I think unless without somebody saying,
00:15:01
"Hey, people think this is Brian in this picture." I don't think my my mind would
00:15:04
have ever went there just seeing it on my own. But, yeah, I think with the the statement of "Hey, will you run away
00:15:11
with me?" That's like a one again, he could have just been joking, just could have been having fun.
00:15:18
We don't know how serious he was about that statement, but I would put the him walking away
00:15:24
at a at a much greater probability than than suicide. And Brian had done a couple things, you know, leading up to
00:15:33
his disappearance that could add to the walking away theory. I mean, how many times do we hear, "It's
00:15:41
not illegal for an adult to go missing?" Well, if Brian would have had all that debt, it would have been illegal for him
00:15:47
to go missing, but paying it off like a month and a half before he went missing is you know, that made it so if he did
00:15:55
choose to walk away, it was completely legal. And he didn't turn in that tuition check
00:15:59
for his next term of college, so was he anticipating going back to Ohio State? So, the next one we're going to
00:16:06
go into is foul play. And I want to start with dying inside the Ugly Tuna, whether it be in the
00:16:13
construction area or at the hands of someone inside the bar. I've basically eliminated this theory
00:16:20
because as I've mentioned before, the Ugly Tuna was probably the most thoroughly searched in the Brian Shaffer
00:16:28
disappearance. They had a total of three sets of dogs in there. They took electric panels off the wall. They
00:16:35
searched from top to bottom. I just don't see there being any evidence that Brian died inside of the bar. And there
00:16:43
should be video of most of those exits to the building as far as what we've You, Kelly, you know, would know
00:16:54
this better than I. But, CPD if has from what I've reviewed have been a little cagey on making a definitive
00:17:03
statement on exactly where the cameras were and how many there were at the time. Did
00:17:09
Do you have other information on that? No, even when described, it's a little confusing, and I feel like the answer
00:17:16
has changed a couple times of whether that camera would pan or if it was a constant recording or if it was like
00:17:24
basically a burst of photos. So, no, I'm still very confused on the camera myself.
00:17:30
>> Because the for me, and I get it, we don't see him leaving. So, that creates a very big problem in our timeline here
00:17:37
for that night in question. But, I've always kind of thought if he were if he were to have been killed in the bar or
00:17:45
in that building, that it would have had to have been somebody or someone's with the ability
00:17:52
to move him out of there at a later time. Um I I think that gets very difficult, too. I
00:18:01
think that I think that's almost as difficult as us not seeing him leaving the bar.
00:18:08
I don't think he's in the building. I I think too, when I review some of the statements by I believe it was
00:18:16
statements by Hurst, some of his statements I think imply that he doesn't believe that that Brian
00:18:26
that he believes 100% that Brian left the building. Right. And so, when I review those statements, guys, that
00:18:34
I'm always intrigued by the investigation, right? I'd love to figure out and parse through what police is
00:18:41
what they are choosing to say and what they are choosing not to say. And try to read between those lines. So,
00:18:48
with with statements like that, I have to wonder, my mind jumps to, okay, do they have something telling
00:18:55
them that he absolutely did leave and they're holding on to that? Or is it as simple as, well, we searched and
00:19:02
searched and searched and searched and never found him there, just his absence is telling us that he left. Because
00:19:08
those are two very different things, right? To have proof positive that he left or to arrive at that conclusion based
00:19:17
off of we just never found him in there are two different things. So, my I'm really curious, do they actually have
00:19:23
something that is highly suggestive that he left? >> I think they do. I actually think that
00:19:28
Hurst has mentioned a couple exits that they've narrowed it down to based on my communication with him. Yeah, and so to
00:19:35
go over those a little bit, I mean, there's one exit door that had chains on it, but if you
00:19:42
push the door open Hurst, which is a bigger guy, said, "Well, I could have got through the
00:19:48
door." Because the door was able to open far enough even with the chains on it. And [clears throat] And Brian was a a
00:19:56
very slender guy. I think the other problem too here with some accident happening or
00:20:03
some violence happening within inside that bar and him remaining there is this was not like a
00:20:11
a a remote rave location like on a farm that people just never visited. So, a weird smell coming from the barn was
00:20:21
never noticed. Like, this is a place that was occupied day and night. Again, when you we go
00:20:29
back to the surveillance footage what do we see? We see two police officers. Not security guards, police officers. If
00:20:39
they saw something, an accident or foul play you think these guys are just going to
00:20:45
turn the other way? Like, it's some crazy conspiracy? No. It's not going to happen. And then on
00:20:51
top of that the complex has roaming security guards. Security guards that just basically walk
00:20:59
and pace through They walk throughout the bars. Like, every bar I played in that complex
00:21:07
in the middle of your set, you just see maybe a security guard come in and just walk through the place. And then you'd
00:21:13
see him constantly pacing through the courtyard and walking through the alley and walking
00:21:20
uh the side streets. And then on top of that, the security guards had like an office. And what was happening
00:21:28
in that office? These security guards were monitoring all different points of surveillance from the office. Like we
00:21:37
said that there was a con- there was a confrontation outside that night. So, did that distract them? But
00:21:46
can you talk a little bit about how you got the sur- surveillance footage from Columbus PD? Um it was just a public
00:21:54
records request that I had sent in. And actually, I had sent in multiple and the
00:21:59
first time it came back and it was in the wrong format. And the second time it was for a different day. And then I was
00:22:06
finally able to get the actual disc. I think it took about 2 months for me to get it. Right. So, it's
00:22:13
not the easiest step. And when I've talked to other Columbus detectives in the missing person unit,
00:22:20
I've had conversations with them about other cases, in particular the Tyler Davis case, I just thought, "Okay, I'm
00:22:28
We just had an hour and a half conversation. Let me just toss it out there. Hey, can I get the surveillance
00:22:33
footage?" And they're like, "Well, you got to go through the proper channels and there's a lot of it. Lot more than
00:22:39
you would think." And all they give you by going through the proper channels is one angle. And we
00:22:47
believe, and I believe, well, I I I don't want to say we believe. I want to say I believe. I want to say I believe
00:22:54
because I've been to that complex, the Gateway complex, over and over. And going up those escalators, you can
00:23:02
see more than one security camera. So, why haven't those other angles been released?
00:23:11
Like, it wouldn't be that difficult to go, "Here's an hour from another angle." Because I think that angle, if we could
00:23:18
see more of the entranceway of Ugly Tuna, we could see Brian leaving the bar area. That's still You still
00:23:28
then have to prove that he got out of the complex, but at least we could prove by like a visual
00:23:35
evidence that I I There he is. I can see him leaving. Instead of going turning to his left and going down the
00:23:43
escalator or the steps, he's turning to his right. And now that puts him heading
00:23:49
into different directions or different exit directions of that complex. And I think also like
00:23:57
with the scent dogs, I've heard that when they had the scent dogs go in there, that the scent dogs
00:24:05
then led them out of the building. And not like miles and miles away from the building, but it led them far enough
00:24:14
away from the building to go, "Okay, well, and and again, you just you have to put the weight You have to determine
00:24:21
that yourself, right? If you put a bunch of weight into those scent dogs, then you go, well,
00:24:27
they they showed a trail of him leaving the bar." And a lot of folks have referenced things like insurance or they
00:24:35
didn't have proper insurance or people would have been sued, and that's why, you know, he he died on in an accident
00:24:42
in the building, and then somebody covered it up because of fear of a law First of all, you have to
00:24:50
you would have to prove in a court of law, and I know not everybody's thinking clearly when they do everything every
00:24:55
minute of every day. But you would have to prove in a court of law that Brian himself wasn't engaging in any type of
00:25:01
reckless behavior at all to win that lawsuit. And it wouldn't just be one outfit that would be sued. It would be
00:25:07
all kinds of I mean, you sue everybody, right? You you sue you sue the construction company, you sue the
00:25:12
security company, you sue the the building, you sue whoever owns the land, you sue everybody. So, that thought is
00:25:18
just not so easy and not so clean. And then Kelly and Captain, have either of you
00:25:26
ever spoke to either of the CPD officers that were that was working security that
00:25:31
night? No, I haven't even been given their names. And Kelly, you know this from listening to the show, we say this
00:25:37
have said it a million times. Just like with any profession, there are people that are really good at their jobs and
00:25:41
people that really suck at their jobs. And so, we can't speak to how great of officers these two guys are. But to
00:25:48
expand a little bit on something the Captain was saying earlier, and I know this from a security perspective and
00:25:54
from having worked with a lot of Columbus police officers as contracted security personnel, one
00:26:02
thing that I don't think that Joe Public understands when it comes to police and
00:26:08
law enforcement outfits, that job in in many scenarios is the same very similar to like locker room
00:26:18
type mentality, right? Where it's And and maybe other people have experienced this at their
00:26:24
officer at their where they work. But it's very much a locker room type of feel. And what I mean by that is I would
00:26:34
be shocked if these guys haven't heard a joke 100,000 times since that night of Oh,
00:26:43
yeah, glad they hired you for special duty this weekend. Weren't you there that night the guy went missing? You
00:26:49
know, that's that's how these guys kind of talk with each other and joke around.
00:26:54
Like So, these guys even though they didn't do it, you know, they they did nothing wrong,
00:27:00
they have to live with the joke of being poked fun at for the rest of their days
00:27:04
of oh, yeah, you were there you were doing such a good job working security there that night that uh
00:27:10
somebody disappeared and has never been [music] seen again. >> [music] >> This is a test of the Reese's [music]
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interesting that I have found [music] with searching for information is [music] when I've talked to security
00:31:02
guards at the Gateway complex whether they were working there or not, they have heard stories have heard
00:31:11
rumors or speculation. So, it's something that has continued to be talked about 20 years later. But,
00:31:19
that goes same goes for any individual I've talked to for CPD, whether they're detectives, whether
00:31:29
they're just street patrolmen. It seems like all of them have at least uh have heard of the case, have heard
00:31:37
have talked to somebody that has worked on the case. So, it's something that in inside of
00:31:43
these groups, it hasn't gone away as far as conversation is concerned. >> Right. And you know, actually the
00:31:49
construction area is talked about so much because it was reported that it was all dug up,
00:31:56
that it was treacherous, and a lot of people envisioned a dangerous construction site when
00:32:02
in all actuality, it was a finished building that just needed some finishing in the on the first floor level. Yeah,
00:32:10
and I would say a a lot of the construction that was happening in that area was cosmetic because you have a bar area
00:32:19
and then somebody comes in, let's say like oh, Jimmy John's. Right? Jimmy John's is
00:32:25
just right around the corner from the Ugly Tuna. And so, when they get their lease
00:32:32
it's basically a shell. And so, if you walked in on the second or third day that they're
00:32:39
installing their Jimmy John's, you'd go, "Oh, this place is under construction."
00:32:44
But, that's the There's a big difference between building a foundation of a building or a foundation for a parking
00:32:51
garage or whatever than just doing the cosmetic work that you need to turn this warehouse space
00:32:58
into an actual retail establishment or a restaurant. So, I think the construction was probably limited.
00:33:08
And we, you know, me and Nick went through this post that was made on Facebook about the these construction workers and
00:33:17
stuff being working that night till like 3:00 in the morning. I Maybe that's Maybe that's true, but I haven't
00:33:25
seen any evidence of it. And we have surveillance footage of those steps. So, if there's people
00:33:33
just working down down the way, why don't we see any of these construction workers on
00:33:40
the surveillance footage? We would. Especially the back hallway footage. >> So, what's another theory that we have
00:33:47
here, Kelly? So, besides Brian being in the walls of the bar, one of the very first theories that I have ever heard
00:33:53
was that Brian was killed by the band and that his body was concealed in an equipment case.
00:34:01
Now, I have pretty much eliminated this theory as well. So, I don't really have a lot to say on this
00:34:08
one because the bar was so tiny and I mean, this just isn't plausible to me. I think we've already talked about how
00:34:16
how foolish this theory is. Yeah, but again, this is why I think talking about these cases are so important because it
00:34:24
was never released by Columbus PD of who that band was that night. And one of the things that's so fascinating
00:34:33
about this case is like the Ugly Tuna. I don't know if you remember this or not, Kelly, or or what your experience
00:34:41
with this was, but I remember looking into this, and this is before you guys put out your comeback series.
00:34:49
And but I heard from somebody like this is like just like a random conversation. I I
00:34:55
think I was at at a studio talking to somebody about cases, and they said and I asked like, "Hey, do
00:35:02
you know who was playing that night?" And they're like, "Yeah, I have no clue, but uh
00:35:08
if you go to their calendar, their calendar is still up, but if you go back to March, April,
00:35:19
all the information is gone. Now, I know a lot of these event calendars for bars or bands,
00:35:26
after a certain period, they just go blank. But you could find like the calendar like a month before
00:35:36
and a month after. So, it's almost like they scrubbed that. And then I talked to an individual that
00:35:43
worked at the Ugly Tuna around that time period, and their speculation was that they just
00:35:52
deleted it because they were having so many people visit their website like like basically our website gets no
00:35:59
traffic. This guy goes missing, and now we're getting a ton of traffic. So, the reason why this stuff is so
00:36:06
important to talk about is and I'm going to pat ourselves on the back here for a second, Nick, but we
00:36:13
talk about this case, which then gets a truck driver interested in looking into this case
00:36:23
in his spare time, and he uncovers the name of the band. And then again, that leads to okay, so
00:36:30
he uncovers that well, I know those guys. So, like we've talked about in the previous episodes, I
00:36:37
was able to talk to those guys. I was able to talk to talk to other individuals that were with them there
00:36:43
that night. So, there would have to be some crazy Columbus cover band conspiracy.
00:36:50
Columbus cover-up band. Cover-up band, yeah. But, yeah, it just doesn't make a lot of sense. But, I think this is why
00:36:56
it's important to talk about these cases and share the information because not all the answers
00:37:02
are going to come from law enforcement. Sometimes the answers or the leads come from armchair detectives, come from
00:37:11
the sleuthers. You know, that calendar of events is still to this day the only one on Wayback Machine that is not
00:37:17
available for the Ugly Tuna Saloona. Yeah, it's bizarre. And it's like weird when you see
00:37:23
something and you like your gut feeling is that it's wrong, but then your other gut feeling is
00:37:29
yeah, I understand why they did that. I mean, when Brian went missing for maybe a couple weeks, you type in Ohio
00:37:36
State student went missing, articles about Brian Shaffer came up, and eventually it was like buried.
00:37:45
If you search Brian Shaffer, yes, of course a bunch of stuff comes up now, YouTube videos and podcasts and and all
00:37:51
this other stuff. But, back in the day, when you would search Brian Shaffer or Ohio State
00:37:57
student going missing, it was buried by all this stuff from the university. And I talked to somebody that worked at
00:38:06
the university, and they said, "Yeah, well, it's possible that the university does
00:38:11
that, that they pay Google or whatever to scrub the internet because they don't want parents
00:38:20
searching the Ohio State University and the first thing pops up is a student went missing.
00:38:28
Now, medical student goes into a bar and never seen leaving the bar. But so I just
00:38:34
So there's that gut feeling where you go, "Well, that's wrong. They shouldn't do that."
00:38:39
But then there's the other gut feeling where you're like, "Well, I guess if I was the university, I'd probably do the
00:38:43
same thing." And you know, I've never played in a band, but correct me if I'm wrong, would they even have any
00:38:49
equipment big enough to hide a 6-foot-2-inch man? Yeah, it all depends on your drum cases. Yeah.
00:38:58
>> So and it's not the you know, cuz some you could look at a a kick drum. The average
00:39:04
kick drum is 22 inches. And that's like the I believe the diameter, right? So but then you have
00:39:13
the depth of the shell. But if you look at a kick drum, you go, "I probably couldn't crawl up into a ball
00:39:22
and fit into that kick drum." The most annoying thing is when people are searching for answers
00:39:28
to their theory. I think you should search for answers and then build a theory based on what
00:39:37
you find. So I think this rumor of, "Well, the band killed him and they put him into
00:39:45
something to get him out of the bar without people noticing." Okay, do you know how much
00:39:50
blood there would be if you had to dismember somebody? And so you're you're going to tell me
00:39:58
that this band just happens to know the the bar staff so well that they go, "Hey guys, just let us go into the
00:40:06
kitchen and dismember this guy and don't worry, we'll clean up all the blood." Okay, so
00:40:14
that's pretty far-fetched. And I think where people screw up is cuz they don't know bands. If the drummer
00:40:23
had um like a hardware case. Some hardware cases, they're big enough that I could
00:40:31
go into. I could lay down in there. Yeah, I'd have to curl up a little bit, but I could lay down in there
00:40:38
and they can latch me up and you never see me leaving on surveillance camera. So, then the question becomes did the
00:40:46
band have a hardware case? I don't know that answer because drummers change. Sometimes they have a
00:40:54
hardware bag. Sometimes they have a hardware cart. But again, it just goes back to the idea
00:40:59
of are these people capable of doing that? See, now that theory to me makes more sense than oh, well, they
00:41:07
killed the guy and dismembered him. But again, what what conflict then you have all these
00:41:15
people and what I was told is it was over 10 people that were out having drinks and watching the band and
00:41:23
hanging out with the band. So, now you're going to tell me that everybody in the band are sinister
00:41:29
killers and everybody that was watching them are also sinister killers. And so that I I just don't put a lot of
00:41:39
weight to that. I think as far as, you know, when you were talking about making a mess and dismembering someone,
00:41:46
it's the same for the trash compactor and I hear that theory a lot. If if Brian was killed in the trash trash
00:41:53
compactor, there would have definitely been evidence of it and CPD did go through that trash compactor.
00:41:59
Well, and it's not just it's not even just that. Like the whole uh look, it's not a crazy theory to
00:42:06
think this guy gets so drunk that he just passes out somewhere outside. It's also not that crazy of a theory for
00:42:13
some idiot college students to walk by this kid passed out or maybe he's just being a drunk idiot and they decide to
00:42:20
beat him up and throw him into a dumpster. Everybody that I've talked to that works at landfills tell me it's
00:42:27
not he probably wouldn't even end up in the landfill because of the sorting process.
00:42:33
They normally always find the bodies through the sorting process. And again, a lot he's a larger individual as far as
00:42:41
height goes. I mean, 6'2. That's not he's not dinky. But again, I think that's the reason why we need to revisit
00:42:51
these cases. I'm hoping that other podcasters and other YouTube creators that are in the true crime
00:42:59
space listen to these episodes, ponder their own questions and put out those questions or more information that
00:43:08
they find out to the community so we can talk about this stuff cuz I talked to Josh Hallmark one time.
00:43:17
And Josh Hallmark, for people that don't know, he is the host of True Crime [ __ ]
00:43:26
And he does a deep dive basically his show is on Israel Keyes. Well, I was talking to him about the
00:43:32
Brian Shaffer case cuz he was fascinated with it and hey, you you're from Columbus.
00:43:39
And I asked him what his thoughts were and the first thing he said to me was the phone call to his girlfriend, the
00:43:46
first thing I thought was he's gay. Josh is gay himself so I went I I got that vibe too when I heard Brian Shaffer's
00:43:55
call to his girlfriend. I to me it was like something doesn't seem right here. We're not detectives,
00:44:04
but by talking to individuals and finding out that Brian had gay relationships. And then, that was not put out by
00:44:14
Columbus PD, but then they were able to at least confirm those. That to me puts a whole
00:44:23
different spin on this case. Is it possible that Brian was intoxicated? He was flirting with these girls, but is it
00:44:31
possible that he was flirting with a guy? And that could be motivation for violence against him. I think it's very
00:44:42
possible, and the bisexual it rumor is actually one that I have been able to find some
00:44:48
validity to. He Brian was experimenting with his sexuality, and I know of one confirmed partner, and but there are
00:44:57
also two rumored that I have not been able to speak to. So, I actually do think that that is a possibility that it
00:45:04
could have been a hate crime, maybe he hit on a straight man, or a hookup gone wrong. I think
00:45:10
this is why it's important to find out the pieces of the puzzle, right? The story has always been Brian Shaffer
00:45:18
goes into the bar with his friend Clinton Meredith, and eventually he talks to two random girls. Okay.
00:45:25
Him What is the reason that Brian went back to this bar? Everything that we can find from phone
00:45:32
records or whatever is that he's going to hang out with these four guys. Who are these four guys? What was their
00:45:42
relationship to Brian? Was it a friendship? Was there any romantic possibility? Did they have any
00:45:50
business together? I think these are questions I would love to have answered, and then we also have again that
00:45:57
photograph. You're telling me that out of the four guys in the photograph, the party photograph, that three of them
00:46:03
were there the night of the Ugly Tuna. It wouldn't be that hard for any of three of these guys to get on to some
00:46:11
message board or blog post or whatever to say, "Hey, I'm the the the second guy to the left
00:46:19
and I can confirm that the guy on the far right is not Brian Shaffer." Or I can confirm it is Brian Shaffer and
00:46:28
that picture was actually taken a year before he went missing or whatever. But because these guys have never really
00:46:35
came up in conversation, I don't think there's any pressure. And again, they don't have any
00:46:39
responsibility to me or to Brian or to ever. So, if they just don't want to talk, I guess they don't want to talk.
00:46:47
We could get answers to at least one possible lead or one possible curious uh or mysterious picture.
00:46:57
All it takes is one of those guys coming out and saying it is Brian or it isn't Brian.
00:47:03
I know who that is. That guy is actually blah blah blah. But I think these guys not being talked about
00:47:10
is something that has been a disservice to getting answers in this case. I think not talking about the
00:47:18
bisexual aspect is a disservice to the case in general because I don't think we're really hearing who Brian was the
00:47:25
whole time and the story we've heard about Brian isn't accurate. So, you know, him struggling with everything
00:47:33
else he had going on and being bisexual, it could open up a whole lot of different things. Yeah, and it makes you
00:47:39
wonder too, like I think experimenting might not even be the right word. Maybe he's searching
00:47:51
for his sexuality and not maybe fully understanding himself. So, then you have this thing where you
00:47:59
go Well, his girlfriend and other people said, "Well, Brian asked her to run away
00:48:04
with him." Again, that doesn't mean that he's, you know, a 100% straight white male, but
00:48:12
maybe it was just him trying to make a decision. Maybe he was just trying to come to a
00:48:19
resolution in his mind. So, look, there's been other speculation. It's It's I think it's hard when you
00:48:29
grow up in in Columbus because it's such, um, a gay-friendly town. I think it was like
00:48:36
rated like number two for many years in the country as one of the most gay-friendly cities to live in.
00:48:46
So, I think when you grow up in that type of community, and depending again, you know,
00:48:53
what your What are your friendships growing up? Did you have a lot of gay friends? Did
00:48:59
you have a lot of lesbian friends? So, I think it's it's [clears throat] hard for me to wrap
00:49:06
my head around somebody wanting to start a new life because they wanted to live openly gay. Does Does Does that make any
00:49:16
sense? It does. Because just because Columbus was felt like, uh, to me like if if these
00:49:25
magazines are saying that it's one of the best places to live if you're gay, then you go,
00:49:32
"Okay, well, then he was in a safe space." But my argument to that would be, "But did he feel like he is in a
00:49:38
safe space with his brother? Did he feel like he was in a safe space with his father?" And there are some people
00:49:45
that hide their sexuality for so long because they don't want to disappoint somebody
00:49:52
in their family. >> Yeah, I can't speak for Derek or Renee, but I can speak to what I've been told
00:49:59
about Randy and that he would not have been accepting of this and he had said that out of his own mouth.
00:50:06
Yeah, and my my issues are the people that I've got confirmation from do- doesn't seem like any of the gay
00:50:18
relationships that Brian was having was he being like overly protective or secretive
00:50:25
about. So, that makes me wonder I've always wondered the narrative that Brian's dad is telling. Is it a true
00:50:36
narrative or is it just a narrative that he knows or is it a narrative that he's
00:50:42
that he made up in his mind and was trying to present a certain narrative to the world. I don't know. I
00:50:51
didn't get a chance to talk with Randy face-to-face, so I can't tell you how how I would read that individual. I live
00:50:59
in Columbus and I still haven't told my father that I'm gay. So, I I don't know what to put into this uh
00:51:05
thought here, but this one I think as far as all the theories out there, I think that this is one to to keep
00:51:14
warm and and keep examining this one. >> Well, and I think the other one is I was
00:51:19
told by detective that they had a lead that Brian wanted to run away, start a new life.
00:51:28
And that Brian wanted to become a woman. Now the detective told me there was enough
00:51:37
of a lead to try to go down that rabbit hole. And the detective also told me that normally
00:51:44
when you have a a that seems pretty far-fetched that you don't get past step one or two. Like
00:51:51
normally one or two steps and you're going, "Okay, that lead doesn't seem like it's much of anything."
00:51:57
And what he told me was they got through a first the first initial hurdles of is there any weight to this
00:52:07
lead to this theory? But again, I I I don't know if I see any evidence of that. That That's not
00:52:17
something that's been a much a part of my life, so I don't have really anything to go on.
00:52:24
But you go just on on the the face of the lead, you go, "Well, it seems like a possibility if somebody
00:52:35
didn't feel like they were born into the right gender, then well, that would be motivation to leave
00:52:43
and start a new life. I can see that. But I did I don't see the evidence of that cuz
00:52:50
like I said, he was it didn't seem like these gay relationships that he was trying to
00:52:56
be protective of or secretive of. Yeah, I don't think so either because when Columbus Police Department began
00:53:02
interviewing people around the place where him and Clint were roommates together,
00:53:09
they kept saying, you know, they were constantly grabbing each other's asses and that it
00:53:16
was a little too friendly and then I I do want to say for as well that Clint was not the only roommate that
00:53:23
lived there and the confirmed uh sexual relationship that I know of was actually
00:53:28
with the other roommate. So, I I'm not sure that the person they were talking about was Clint when we hear all of
00:53:36
those rumors that CPD has said, but there is some validity to Brian and one of his roommates being
00:53:44
very close. I could also see a world where you go, "Well, there's motivation for him going missing
00:53:52
because sometimes when this type of relationship is happening one individual is okay with being open
00:54:02
to the world about it and the other individual might not be. Then that person is essentially
00:54:10
responsible for keeping a secret for both of them. So if Brian was being more open and not secretive about these
00:54:20
relationships that could be motivation for somebody to want Brian to go missing. And so
00:54:27
the information about these gay relationships not coming out 20 years ago you question why was that again part of
00:54:38
his father's narrative to Cuz the story has always been he's going to go to Miami. He's going to propose to
00:54:47
his girlfriend. And we have no evidence of that other than him talking to his mom.
00:54:53
And I would assume that when your parent is getting to the end of their life and
00:55:00
they know it's happening that these there might be some conversations of what what do you think
00:55:07
your future's going to look like? What do you want to have happen? And then as a son or a daughter that would put you
00:55:16
kind of in a tough place but you'd want to pre- present a positive well once I finish medical medical school
00:55:26
maybe I'll get engaged and then maybe I'll get married and maybe I'll have kids or whatever it is. He might have
00:55:32
had these thoughts of I'm going to get done with medical school and go start a rock band. But hey, I'm not going to
00:55:37
tell my dying mother that cuz I don't want her to worry about me. So, I just I don't think we have a lot of
00:55:46
evidence that he was going to go to Miami and propose. And I think that also is a
00:55:52
argument against possibly him starting a new life. If he was with his girlfriend
00:55:57
for a long period of time and it was like all all of his family members and all of his friends said, "Hey, it's [ __ ]
00:56:04
or get off the pot time." Right? But it wasn't. So, it wasn't like he had all this pressure on him
00:56:12
to do something once he went on vacation. So, I don't know. Right. It was a very new
00:56:19
relationship. [music] I don't I don't even think it had been 9 months. Want to thank everybody for listening.
00:56:32
Thanks for telling your mother. [music] Thanks for telling your brother. If you want to join us April 18th at
00:56:38
BrewDog to discuss the Brian Shaffer case, tickets are available now at truecrimegarage.com.
00:56:45
We'd love to meet you, hang out, and discuss some true crime. Until the next episode,
00:56:51
be good, be kind, and don't litter. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> He's Kenny Mayne, the funny guy from
00:57:22
ESPN. Formerly. He's Cooper Manning, the more intelligent and handsome of the Manning brothers. And he's Brian
00:57:29
Baumgartner, but to me, he'll always be Kevin from The Office. Yeah, you and everybody else. Together, we're the
00:57:36
hosts of the new comedy golf podcast, We Need a Fourth, from SmartLess Media and
00:57:41
SiriusXM. It's like a cold beer after a round. You hear the strangest and most bizarre golf stories from our friends,
00:57:49
athletes, celebrities, and comedians. It's all about how much we love golf and how much we hate golf. New episodes are
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out every week. Listen now and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. Could just be anywhere. Just out on the couch.
00:58:03
Doesn't matter.