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GameChanger [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you
00:01:44
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00:01:51
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our bonus show called off the record on Stitcher premium and Colonel that is enough of the business all right
00:03:29
everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true [Music] crime we couldn't talk about this case
00:03:55
the wrongful conviction of Ryan Ferguson and Charles Ericson without introducing
00:04:02
someone who's a very very big part of this case and this story Bill Ferguson Ryan Ferguson's father and his efforts
00:04:11
to write this wrong and get his son out of prison and for me the bill Ferguson story starts with seeing him in court
00:04:22
fully supporting his son and what's amazing to watch the body language and the facial expression
00:04:30
as the trial goes on and what you can tell he is thinking on the inside he's I've hired this defense attorney this
00:04:37
guy is a reputable supposed to be one of the best in the area and he's watching this guy fumble through the case fumble
00:04:45
through the trial and he's thinking my god I've paid this man all this money and this is not going to work out for my
00:04:54
son we also see Ryan Ferguson on the stand who as the captain pointed out he seems a little unengaged or or doesn't
00:05:03
seem doesn't come off to at least Express the severity of the situation and I think we've seen that plenty of
00:05:10
times with these individuals who deep down in their heart they know they're innocent they're sitting their on trial
00:05:17
and I think that they think at some point the truth will come out there there's no way they can convict me of
00:05:23
something I couldn't have done well and the other problem is this defense attorney looks like a penis with a
00:05:28
mustache [Music] [Laughter] I mean am I wrong no every time he talked all I could see was a penis with
00:05:37
a mustache but could you imagine Bill Ferguson you being Bill Ferguson sitting there at this trial thinking of the who
00:05:44
knows how much he paid the I've I've reviewed cases where they've paid defense attorneys
00:05:50
$150,000 and these guys don't put on a good case they don't represent their client to their best of their abilities
00:05:57
he's sitting in court going I just paid this man all this money and he can't even he can't even poke holes in the
00:06:03
prosecution's theory he can't even show up with a map with the actual buildings on it that he's talking about you know
00:06:09
we see this all the time and that's the thing this wasn't even a public defender
00:06:13
and not not to [ __ ] on public defenders I mean they literally do the most amazing work they're incredibly
00:06:18
underpaid and overworked but that's the problem they're underpaid and overworked
00:06:22
so you know if you can afford to hire a private lawyer you always think oh this person's going to be better than a
00:06:28
public defender who has a million cases and sometimes only goes and sees clients
00:06:33
once twice before the trial um so it it's really it's it's really sad it's really sad that that happened what was
00:06:42
the background of Charles's family his his parents what did they do for a living yeah so Charles's father worked
00:06:50
in he worked for the public defender office um he was an investigator and MaryAnn currently is a is a professor or
00:06:58
a teacher um I don't know what she was doing back then but they are both you know he does come from a very nice
00:07:07
welltoo middle class family well it also seems like Charles was gifted like he had a above average level of IQ still
00:07:16
does he's he Charles is brilliant and he did and that's that's what I highlight a
00:07:21
lot you know he was amazing athlete he was incredibly smart he did get a scholarship to college and then you know
00:07:29
as happens with a lot of teens he just got really into partying and that all kind of went out the window for a bit
00:07:37
and led to where he is now well but when you look at his background and his parents it it makes zero sense that it
00:07:44
wasn't his father that stopped this whole train because like we like Nick was saying with uh with Ryan Ferguson's
00:07:53
father he was a real estate agent knew nothing about criminal justice and gets all the these wheels and motions and
00:08:01
basically is the reason his son got freed from prison well and I want to take this moment to do a little Public
00:08:08
Service Announcement here because if you are going into this trial let's put yourself in the Ferguson situation your
00:08:17
son's being charged with something you believe him to be innocent for you hire a defense attorney a defense team to
00:08:24
represent him at court Ryan Ferguson received the highest bail $20 million the highest bail from what the
00:08:32
documentary tells us to be in the United States ever for a single murder charge if your defense attorney gets you the
00:08:44
highest bail ever in the history of the United States it's time to switch teams right then and there $20 million this
00:08:51
kid they were not going to let him out for a single day before his trial so Ryan's spent H how long in in prison
00:09:00
Ryan did a 10 years Charles has um a pearl hearing coming up in 2023 yes he has a Perl hearing do you
00:09:09
think that is one of the reasons because anybody that hears the Ryan Ferguson case I think it scares people because
00:09:18
it's just something that could happen to anybody if it could happen to this guy and he wasn't even there and he should
00:09:24
have a solid Alibi driving his buddy home that solid Alibi turns into the nail in your coffin yeah so I think this
00:09:35
story when people hear it it scares the living [ __ ] out of them because it could
00:09:39
happen to you if it happened to this kid there was again the prosecutor sitting there on the St saying there is zero
00:09:47
physical evidence to even put them at the crime scene so I think that is what scares the living [ __ ] out of people it
00:09:55
does it's it's absolutely terrifying and I think we were talking about it a minute ago ago when we're talking about
00:10:00
they both come from well-off middle class white families able to hire private Defenders and this still
00:10:08
happened to them and it and I think that's what scares people it's like if they're not safe who is safe from
00:10:14
corrupt law enforcement well I think that's what created the outrage when people see the initial story because you
00:10:21
have to go back and forth a little bit to go okay well but Charles is saying that they were there so there's a
00:10:27
possibility that thisy guy is guilty we've seen that before but eventually everybody gets to the conclusion that
00:10:35
neither one of these guys are guilty and it seems like there was this huge outrage for Ryan but there's never been
00:10:43
that outrage for Charles well there's a couple things to that so Kathleen zelner
00:10:48
comes on in 2009 and that's of course what actually leads to Ryan um having the conviction vacated she comes on in
00:10:58
2009 and at this point Charles realizes Ryan didn't have anything to do with this and he finds out Ryan has hired
00:11:07
Kathleen zelner pre-m a murderer but she was still a pretty big shot lawyer she has gotten some people who are
00:11:12
wrongfully convicted off and Charles reaches out to her and says I have to say something and so this is what we see
00:11:18
in dream killer and parts of it are on um Charles's website is this deposition she takes from Charles where he sits her
00:11:26
down and says actually I lied Ryan had nothing to do with this but I did and I I did this alone and she was like what
00:11:37
was a shock to her because she's done she knows it that neither of them did it yeah so she's like what well okay um
00:11:45
still got to get my client out so we get Ryan out and Charles is still convinced
00:11:51
of his guilt at this point and he said I was doing what I could to help Ryan I realized I [ __ ] up like he had nothing
00:11:58
to do with this but I still did because at this point Charles doesn't know that these police reports were false he
00:12:07
doesn't know that this these alleged reports of people saying they heard Ryan confessing are false so he still thinks
00:12:17
there's evidence against him in the form of Jerry Trump saying that they saw them
00:12:21
he doesn't know Shaya ort says she never saw them so he doesn't know any of this
00:12:26
so he's still thinking well you know people are saying I was there so I guess I was yeah and one of the real big
00:12:33
things in this case for Charles was his friend Dallas Ma mallerie I believe is his name that Eric was always convinced
00:12:43
that he saw Dallas at some point in the night because Dallas was dressed up as a
00:12:49
a possible cop or something but he 100% convinced that so he knows that he went to these parties he went to this bar he
00:12:59
knows that for certain he has thousands of people backing up that or hundreds of
00:13:05
people backing up that part of the story the rest of the night in Charles's mind
00:13:09
is I blacked out I don't remember anything but one of the things that he keeps remembering is I saw Dallas in his
00:13:18
car at this traffic light while the traffic light just so happens to be close to the crime scene so that's
00:13:26
really well that's the thing they that's what was the LIE they told him that Dallas said that he saw him at that
00:13:36
intersection Dallas said he never saw him Dallas was like I saw him at the party earlier that's what Charles is
00:13:42
remembering he knows he saw Dallas but it was at this Halloween party but the police are lying to him and saying uh
00:13:50
Dallas saw you near the crime scene and Charles is like well I do remember seeing Dallas so I guess he saw me by
00:13:55
the crime scene Charles again has no idea any of this is not true until long after his statement to zelner
00:14:05
around 2013 I believe he told me he started kind of figuring out all of this was fabricated and you know he has these
00:14:13
now fake memories planted in his head from the police and the prosecution well and this is where it gets pretty
00:14:20
interesting to me because they're telling him like you said Charles knows he saw
00:14:26
Dallas that night at the park party they start saying well you saw him at this intersection and Dallas was parked at a
00:14:36
red traffic light you talk to him for a little bit and then he drives off obviously when
00:14:43
the light turns green so then you have Ryan Ferguson's father that goes down to the crime scene walks it multiple times
00:14:52
goes to this intersection and realizes at that time of day there's no red light there's was just blinking yellow lights
00:15:01
MH so just that part of the story is fake and then Dallas then comes forward and says I felt pressured to say
00:15:08
anything I basically told the prosecution whatever you want me to say I'll go along with and at the time of
00:15:16
the murder he did not have a vehicle or a license more impossibilities of Charles actually seeing him the night of
00:15:24
the murder yeah no exactly it's um and then so you know I talk about Dallas a lot in my podcast but there's also Megan
00:15:33
Arthur and Richard Walker similarly Charles has given police reports from them saying Ryan confessed and they both
00:15:41
later recant and he has no idea about this he has no idea so he's still thinking oh you know these two people
00:15:47
are saying you know I did this um but do you think with his PE hearing being so close that that's an a reason why people
00:15:56
don't seem as will willing to like try to do something or create some kind of a commotion to help get him out no I don't
00:16:05
I don't think anyone even really knows about the peole I think he's been forgotten I think so much of the story
00:16:11
was intentionally focused on Ryan he was the more sympathetic person in the story
00:16:18
and then once Ryan gets out it was kind of that's that I mean so many people I talk to have no idea there was a
00:16:26
codefendant they have no idea Ryan Ferguson was the story and now Ryan Ferguson is this the overcoming a
00:16:35
wrongful conviction like hero story right and and that was that and he had a show on MTV for a little bit that that's
00:16:45
what the whole show was about which you'd think the per first person that he would try to help out would be the guy
00:16:53
that he knows 100% didn't commit a crime yeah and there's there's a lot there um
00:17:00
that I don't understand and I've asked Charles Lawyers family members you know what has Ryan done to help you or help
00:17:10
Charles and it's nothing little to nothing if anything at all other than his original statement when he came out
00:17:19
of prison where he said Charles Erikson is a lot of things but he's not guilty of this
00:17:25
murder and then he's kind of moved on with his life I don't know I've never been wrongfully convicted by somebody I
00:17:31
don't know I'm I I cannot blame him for having so much anger 10 years of his life were stolen yeah but Charles is
00:17:38
also a victim and I can't imagine not wanting to help this person who has been completely forgotten I mean the least
00:17:46
you could do is use your platform to say hey don't forget about this guy well it
00:17:50
makes the whole case pretty confusing because if they're letting this individual
00:17:57
out and then they're saying he did not do this crime then by definition that's the
00:18:05
reason why they kept going after Ryan Ferguson in the beginning they said well we know that Charles was with you so if
00:18:13
Charles is saying he was at the crime scene and he killed a man then guess what you were with him and so by using
00:18:21
their own logic if Ryan is innocent of this crime then by using their own logic so
00:18:28
is Charles exactly and so they just filed a petition for actual innocence in June in June it was denied and now they
00:18:38
are waiting to file another appeal he confessed to this and that that presents a whole other level of issues in trying
00:18:47
to get him out yeah they ignored logic when they took his confession they ignored logic when they prosecuted Ryan
00:18:55
Ferguson and here they are conveniently ignoring in logic again could you tell us who Kathleen zelner is for for the
00:19:04
for the few listeners because most will know but could you give us a little background on Kathleen zelner yeah so
00:19:11
Kathleen zelner became famous in making a murder season two she took Steph Avery's case and she is famous for
00:19:20
having had a few exonerates she's worked for and or I don't even know if I want to say a few I think she's taken 13
00:19:27
cases and and gotten them all out I'm not like an expert on her background but I know she has incredible backgrounds
00:19:34
and her whole thing is I will not take your case she investigates these cases and you know she'll only take a case if
00:19:41
she thinks somebody is innocent because she's done the leg work well well she even goes a little step further because
00:19:48
she doesn't even just try to get you off on a technicality she's also trying to solve
00:19:54
the case herself right and so that's like what I was getting at earli I mean she has found with her
00:20:01
investigators much better suspects than Boyd Charles and Ryan obviously two men who who later in 2005 committed another
00:20:11
very bizarre murder uh seemingly random murder and I don't want to you know name
00:20:18
names right now but I am going to get into this in an episode very soon on my patreon talking with the brother of one
00:20:25
of these guys Charles's mom she knows a lot about these two and these were two guys that were uncovered by Kathleen's
00:20:32
investigation so we're thinking that these two guys were indeed these what the eyewitnesses saw this one guy looks
00:20:42
almost identical to the police sketch to to Shaina or sketch yes so these guys we
00:20:47
don't believe we just walking by the scene we believe that these guys were the actual murders yes based on some um
00:20:56
their own family saying you know they they have made confession statements um based on the fact that they have been
00:21:04
tied to I don't I don't want to say convicted I know one of them is dead right now um from suicide but tied to
00:21:11
another very strange Rand of murder of a professor in a very similar situation you know she actually just sent me all
00:21:19
these files this morning so I haven't like fully dove in but I I'm going to dive in and do an episode on it well and
00:21:25
when you read about how great of a person Kent was it didn't seem like he had any
00:21:31
enemies it the the question to me was always which I think made Michael Boyd at least a decent suspect because well
00:21:43
he worked underneath him so could there be some assignment that he didn't like did he just not like working under the
00:21:50
person that would be at least a motive maybe not a good enough motive for murder but other than that what's the
00:21:58
motive here yeah I mean and that's the thing too with Boyd there was allegedly that
00:22:03
argument between him and Holt but I mean the the murder was so brutal I mean he is strangled with his own belt he is
00:22:13
bludgeoned it seemed either incredibly personal or incredibly random and Psychopathic and I think with these two
00:22:22
other suspects it seems that they are serial murderers and it is incredibly [Music]
00:22:39
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00:24:59
so that is potentially something that the police did get right that it was a random act of violence and I think it's
00:25:06
a weird thing with these two persons that are seen two young white males are seen near the murder scene at the time
00:25:15
of the murder we know this by these our Witnesses here we also know our Witnesses are saying it was not Ryan
00:25:22
Fergus and he was not one of the people that I saw that night it gets weird though because the the statements from
00:25:29
the witnesses at times have been that these two individuals who may be suspects were saying something like this
00:25:37
man needs help so you go okay well maybe these are just two people that happen to
00:25:43
walk by and see that something horrible went down just minutes ago they're doing
00:25:49
their best as a good citizen to get help for this individual that they don't know
00:25:54
but then the problem is they must be suspects I think because you got even two years later before Ryan is arrested
00:26:02
before Charles is arrested where these people if they witness something they never come forward this story is in the
00:26:10
news they don't come forward to say I was the person that was walking that night I was the person that called out
00:26:16
for help I was the person that saw somebody and said we need to get somebody here to help this man to me
00:26:22
very briefly skimming the surface of these two guys seems like it almost could have been like a fous kind of like
00:26:29
we just committed this murder and this guy needs some help and then they walk away not even like an actual Cry for
00:26:35
Help like hey uh uh this guy might need some help over here and then they walk away is a possibility this was not a
00:26:41
robbery gone bad this was I mean they had the opportunity whoever did this judging by the evidence they had the
00:26:48
opportunity to stop at some point they could have easily they they took this man beat him they could have taken
00:26:56
whatever possessions he had that they wanted right then and there but whomever did this they took it a step further
00:27:03
with the belt I mean think about that psychologically to take the belt off the victim and then use it to kill the
00:27:11
individual well I think they actually strangled him so hard that it sna parts of his neck I know the belt broke itself
00:27:18
Bel broke yep yeah it was it was vicious violent and I believe that at some point
00:27:24
regardless of what started the attack at at some point there was a clear intention of Murder By whomever
00:27:31
did this now you mentioned earlier that there were two persons everybody knows of the witnesses who recant Trump and
00:27:40
then we have uh shaa ort who says that Ryan Ferguson was not one of the people that I saw we have Charles Ericson who
00:27:48
changes his story multiple times it starts off with he and Ryan did this together then it ends up with he did it
00:27:54
by himself that Ryan may have told to stop at some point or Ryan witnessed some of it Charles Ericson says he's
00:28:02
uncertain how much of this crime Ryan would have actually witnessed and then at some point Charles's story becomes
00:28:12
Ryan didn't do this Ryan didn't witness me doing it either because I didn't do it
00:28:17
myself right right who who were the two people remind me who were the two people
00:28:23
that said hey Ryan Ferguson told us about this said that he was involved or talked about it at a party they later
00:28:31
changed their story I don't know the details of that do we know why they changed their story are there are they
00:28:35
saying the same thing that crane convinced us to come forward with this false information how how does their
00:28:42
their story change yes so one of them he is in prison at the time and or in jail
00:28:49
I think he's in jail at the time so he's got a couple charges and basically and that's the thing with Trump too that's
00:28:56
how they got how Cran got Trump trump was on Parole for um some kind of sex offense crane came to him and said hey
00:29:05
you know I'll I'll give you a deal and whatever or whatever if you say what I need you to say so here's this other guy
00:29:10
jailhouse informant who is striking deals and says uh Ryan confess to me while in prison later he says you know
00:29:19
that didn't happen I was making a deal with the prosecutor for you know a lesser sentence or charges whatever it
00:29:25
is and then the other one is Megan Arthur who was at a party she did not say that she heard Ryan she says she
00:29:35
thought she heard Ryan say something along these lines which it's very possible Ryan was saying yo Charles is
00:29:42
being crazy saying we did this so she tells this to the police and they basically twist her entire statement and
00:29:50
say you know she told us she heard Ryan saying this and so both her and the jail
00:29:55
house informant said none of this happened happened jail house en forant says I was just striking a deal but I
00:30:00
actually completely lied Ryan never confessed to me and Megan Arthur says they completely took my words out of
00:30:06
context I never said that I heard Ryan confessing I thought I might have heard something and I wanted to help with
00:30:12
selner being involved with Ryan's case has she been giving this information over to Charles's new lawyer they had in
00:30:21
the past I don't think there's been much recently with that cuz what's next for Charles yeah so he had an appeal denied
00:30:32
recently in July and now they're working on filing another actual innocence appeal and basically it's on the grounds
00:30:40
they're trying to get an evidentiary hearing they can present all of this evidence all of this prosecutorial law
00:30:46
enforcement misconduct if they can present that there is no evidence if they can get anything further tested you
00:30:52
know basically they just want to present their side in front of a jur in front of
00:30:56
a judge or judges they think it's going to move forward is basically what they have to do and and they're doing this on
00:31:02
the grounds of that Charles had his constitutional rights violated when they knowingly and willfully got a false
00:31:10
statement from him now we know that Charles responded to a letter that you sent but take us through the process of
00:31:16
working with Charles and putting together your episode what does that typically involve with the individuals
00:31:22
that that you are you are now meeting and presenting their stories I hear from Charles once a week twice a week you
00:31:30
know he's doing a lot in prison he's working with his dog training program he helps rehabilitate dogs and adopt them
00:31:37
out those are like his best friends he said you know again he's in therapy he's taking medication he's working on
00:31:42
himself he's going to school he's running again which is what he used to do back in high school that's how him
00:31:49
and Ryan actually met so you know when I first started speaking with Charles there was just so much to talk about cuz
00:31:55
he's doing so much so it was like like okay we want to talk about the case we want to get to all this but I also just
00:32:01
want to like hear about you as a person we only hear about this crazy guy with dreamlike memories or snapshots is what
00:32:09
he calls them who is Charles you know what do you do and he is just so smart and has so much to say I could talk to
00:32:16
Charles forever so yeah there was a lot to fit in this one episode and I think we covered a lot of stuff that wasn't in
00:32:24
it but you know with the episode I just really wanted to make clear that there is this other person in prison and he's
00:32:30
a good person and he he was also a victim of all of this yes it very quickly became the free Ryan Ferguson
00:32:39
story and then once Ryan got out everything is just kind of forgotten about as you said Charles Ericson still
00:32:47
in prison the murder of Kent heol unsolved no justice for his family no justice for Kent heol yeah and I believe
00:32:56
his family is even on the on the pro Ryan and Charles side I mean they think also recognize I I'm pretty sure I did
00:33:04
come across a Facebook page that his family runs that that they also believe that this has not been solved this is a
00:33:10
wrongful conviction they want Justice for their loved one he was a father he had two kids he had a wife they want to
00:33:17
know who murdered their dad and it was not Charles and Ryan and they support them right if you don't get Justice for
00:33:24
Charles you will never get Justice for can't absolutely because it's it's a closed case it's uh not being
00:33:32
investigated any further why are they going to further test DNA evidence when we got this guy in prison till Charles
00:33:37
is out they are not getting Justice for Kent heidle well not only out but technically the conviction vacated right
00:33:45
right because it's one thing to let him out we've actually seen some cases where
00:33:51
they let the wrongfully convicted out but never vacate the conviction therefore it's a close case technically
00:33:58
there's no reason to for the state to investigate West Memphis 3 yep yeah with Boyd on the surface he looks like a good
00:34:06
suspect he looks like somebody that we would have would question his actions and some of his statements but as you
00:34:13
said they probably have something that tells them that Boyd is not their guy it could be the janitors the witnesses
00:34:23
saying we saw two younger white males and boy doesn't fit that description but there probably has some kind of physical
00:34:33
evidence at the scene uh the captain pointed out that we have seven or more unidentified fingerprints there's a
00:34:40
bloody palm print bloody Footprints there's hair at the scene none of this matches Ryan Ferguson we we have that
00:34:49
that might be the only honest words that came out of the prosecutor's mouth at that trial was that we have no physical
00:34:55
evidence linking this guy to the crime you have to wonder if some of that evidence if it doesn't point the boid as
00:35:03
well you know zelner was pretty convinced that they did a really shitty job investigating void and I think he
00:35:10
even says they didn't even really investigate him so I was just thinking like oh well maybe they took some of his
00:35:16
uh hair samples and DNA or whatever and compared it to what was at the crime scene but according to zelner at least
00:35:22
and how she feels the investigation went I don't actually think that happened um yeah I believe he's only interviewed
00:35:29
twice and I don't any sample was taken I don't think so either so I don't really
00:35:34
know what they had that they did not follow up on him I don't think they did compare his samples well the most
00:35:41
suspicious thing about that is the getting rid of one of his cars and not really understanding what he did with it
00:35:49
or the what he told law enforcement later they figured out was a lie yeah and like we said there would be so much
00:35:58
blood at this scene that you would think if Michael Boyd wasn't involved you'd think that he would at least saw the two
00:36:05
two individuals that people think are involved well I think that becomes part of the issue that people have with his
00:36:12
story because originally he's telling police that he didn't see and and Maggie correct me if I'm wrong but my
00:36:21
understanding is he's saying he didn't see anybody and now when we have two people to pin this on Ryan Ferguson and
00:36:29
Charles Erikson then later he's saying yeah I saw two younger white males at the at the scene is that correct yeah
00:36:37
yeah he he was all over the place it is it is odd and I I you know I I wonder if
00:36:43
he's just all over the place because he knows he's the last person to see him alive and is scared um again he's he's
00:36:52
not a white person he's a person of color like he you know a lot of people that I talked to just instantly become
00:36:57
afraid of the police and that could be why we have the multiple changes in the story again I think there are much
00:37:04
better suspects than than Boyd so you know when I talk I I kind of lean towards the it's not Boyd but I do think
00:37:11
it was really shoddy of them to not investigate him further than they did take samples do more than two interviews
00:37:18
you know what do you think the likelihood that Charles will make parole in 2023 parole is so hard because with
00:37:26
parole they're not looking at actual innocence um they're looking at do you have remorse for the crime that you're
00:37:33
convicted of Charles didn't do this how is he supposed to show remorse for murdering somebody when he didn't do
00:37:40
this you know and a lot of these people I talk to like JJ Velasquez in in my case he's up for parole and he's says
00:37:47
yeah I'll go in front of the board but I'm not going to confess to something I didn't do yeah I could walk out of here
00:37:51
tomorrow but I my Integrity is worth so much more than being paroled for something I didn't do and I haven't
00:38:01
really asked Charles but my guess is it would be similar I don't think he has any intention on saying yes I feel bad
00:38:09
for murdering Kent heol so you're not getting pared unless you say that and you know I talked to some folks my first
00:38:16
EP episode Germaine Smothers he's up for parole and I do think he'll get paralled
00:38:21
because while he didn't commit the murder he feels like a lot of actions in his life contributed to this murder he
00:38:29
was in a gang lifestyle so he is going to go in front of the Pearl board and say like yes I'm remorseful for this
00:38:35
because my actions contributed to it so that is different because what actions did Charles do that that contributed to
00:38:43
this murder I mean nothing so I I don't think he's going to be pared and the two
00:38:48
people that you find interesting for this as good possible suspects remind me how they came onto the radar so these
00:38:56
were um from Kathleen zelner private investigators and again I haven't fully you know I have the statements the
00:39:05
affidavits from her Pi is you know interviewing people who say like yes this person um you know told me this and
00:39:12
I I think the brother even I'm going to speak with the brother believes his brother did it and and I'm not going to
00:39:17
name their names here yet until I go through everything but um I am going to do an episode about this on my patreon
00:39:25
but um they one of the men at least was linked to the murder of a professor a very brutal murder where he was found
00:39:36
stabbed stuffed in his trunk and the car was lit on fire in a parking garage as he left work and one of these men was
00:39:43
his DNA was linked to the crime scene so to me that sounds very similar to a random murder of Kent height Holt I mean
00:39:51
they're it's the same it's Boon County so the I'm going to look into this further but this is something that
00:39:57
zelner uncovered and and I do think you know one of these guys at least is still
00:40:01
alive and I know that actually Maryann Ericson has been skeptical about uh saying his name because he's dangerous
00:40:11
and he's out there and this is in 2005 so these are only a couple years apart that this um Professor was murdered and
00:40:20
found burned in his the trunk of his car four yeah four years from Kent's murder
00:40:26
the whole point when you wrongfully incarcerate people when you knowingly i h i do not stray away from
00:40:34
saying that uh Kevin crane knowingly incarcerated the wrong people that you leave the real murderers
00:40:42
out there and now another innocent person is dead if these two were the ones that were involved in Kent height
00:40:49
Holt's murder and this man looks just like the police sketch and you're saying that the other this professor that they
00:40:58
believe this individual is responsible for killing there's no connection between suspect and victim it just
00:41:06
appears to be some kind of random act of violence yeah yeah and and so again I haven't dove into this super far but it
00:41:14
looks like this was also a Cold's case I mean it happened in 2005 and it looks like you know that he's this name is
00:41:20
coming up in 2013 linking him to the the murder so that's how you get away with things is random murder and and I know
00:41:27
you guys know we talked about this in the mor Murray case when these things are random it's it's really hard to to
00:41:34
find the killer there is a website free Charles erikson. org and there is a reward fund of
00:41:45
$10,000 for information in the case in the unsolved we should say murder case of Kent height Hol and that money is
00:41:55
coming from the Ferguson family yes so they're working to at least uh help to find more information that could help
00:42:04
Charles Erikson or at least help the investigation for finding the real killer of Kent heol absolutely yep and
00:42:13
like you said Charles has uh this hearing coming up pretty soon and then a pearl Hearing in
00:42:21
2023 I know that you have a group on Facebook can you tell the listeners a little bit about that so they could
00:42:29
follow that for any update in this case yes so it's the unjust and unsolved podcast Discussion Group um Maryann
00:42:38
Erikson Charles's mom is in there almost every if not every unless they don't have an in unless they don't have a
00:42:45
Facebook but every Advocate you've heard in the episodes every sibling as many investigators as I can get are in there
00:42:52
to help answer questions and just be part of these discussions to help solve solve these crimes it's an unsolved
00:42:58
murder Kent height holds killer is out there potentially if like I said these two guys have killed somebody else so
00:43:05
potentially again killing more people hurting more people everybody always ask where can we
00:43:20
find the music for the show all the music each week is created by me your captain and you can find it it's all for
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for this week how about a little recommended listening make sure that you check out the unjust and unsolved
00:43:47
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00:43:54
you can find it where ever you listen to your podcast and come back and see us next week on Monday we have a new off
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