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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me as always, a man that will not be watching the World Series due to a make-em-up show about zombies. He is the
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captain. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. Rest in peace, my friend
00:01:04
Glenn. You do know he's not real. Well, it seemed real to me, okay? Tonight tonight we are drinking Des
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Moines IPA by Confluence Brewing Company in Des Moines, Iowa. Garage grade three
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and three quarters out of five bottle caps. Des Moines IPA is brought to us by some of our favorite garage friends. A
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big shout out to Ava in Orange, Virginia. Also, we have Carmen in Fallbrook, California. Next we have
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Fanny all the way in Sweden. Back to the states, we have Kayla in Phoenix, Arizona. Not to forget Tara in San Fran,
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California and last but not least, we have Nurse Ashley in West Williamstown, New Jersey. Well, way to knock that one
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out of the park. We like your gym. And a big shout out to Tim and Dave, two guys that did not agree with me on the
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last episode, but they post some really fascinating and some interesting stuff onto our blog. So, if you want to go do
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that, want to post anything on the blog, go to truecrimegarage.com. Tim and Dave secretly hate you. I don't
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I don't think it's secret anymore. But, you know, they they put some interesting
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uh information on the cases on the blog. So, check that out. what, Tim and Dave, go to
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suggestion. This was suggested by multiple people. So, thank you for that. Like your gym.
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All right, Captain, that's enough of the business. Everybody gather around, grab
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a chair cuz the garage door is closing. Get your beer. Let's talk some true crime.
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This is True Crime Garage and this is the case of Johnny Gosch. Um in 1982, my son was uh delivering his
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Sunday morning newspapers. And a man approached him asking directions. There were witnesses
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that saw the man, heard the man, saw the car, the license plate number, all of it.
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And Johnny was afraid. He told the other kids, "There's something wrong with this
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guy. Wrong with this guy." And so he left the area and started walking towards where he would be doing
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his route. At that point, a second man came out from between a big clump of trees and
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two houses. Followed my son down the street. Followed my son down the street. And around the corner.
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At which time that car had left the area, went around the whole block, came back up right where Johnny turned. Well,
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the second man following him stayed back a ways so Johnny probably didn't even know he was being followed.
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Probably didn't even know he was being followed. And then shortly thereafter, somebody jumped out of the backseat.
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Johnny was shot with something. We don't know if it was a type of stun gun, a taser. We don't know what it was, but he
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was shot with something and dropped to the ground. And the reason we know this is there was a young man in his bedroom
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that was right there on the street, that corner. He heard some noise outside and
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he looked out. He saw all this happen. And then somebody from the backseat that had jumped out grabbed Johnny's feet.
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The man that had been following on foot grabbed him under his arms. They threw him in the backseat of the car. Then
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they ran the stop sign heading left towards the interstate, but they went only a few blocks where they pulled in
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and there was a van waiting with the motor running and they transferred Johnny's body to the van and then all
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the cars left the city. Tonight in the garage, we are talking about the child abduction of young
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Johnny Gosch way back from 1982. This is one of the most famous child abduction cases of all time. This took place in
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Iowa. You know, it's right up there with the some other very famous ones, Elizabeth Smart, Beverly Potts, Steven
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Stayner, Adam Walsh, you know, ones that we hear about from time to time in the news that keep get cycling back to us.
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Yeah, I've never I've never actually heard of this case until um a friend of mine and several listeners
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were suggesting through Netflix. There was a documentary called uh Who Took Johnny? And uh with the
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um you know, around the same time the Amanda Knox documentary was kind of blowing up and
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everybody was checking that out. So, I kind of went for that one first and then stumbled upon this uh Who Took Johnny?
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Johnny Gosch was born November 12, 1969. His parents' names were John Sr. and Noreen Gosch. This was Noreen's second
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marriage. Her first marriage, she was married when she was pretty young. She had two kids with her first husband
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and a girl and a boy. And unfortunately, Noreen's husband was diagnosed with an incurable cancer and he passed away.
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A few years later, Noreen meets John Gosch and they get married and after a couple of years, they have a baby boy
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and this is little Johnny Gosch. Johnny grew up in a very nice neighborhood in West Des Moines, Iowa.
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This was normal good people living normal good lives in middle America. It's a a tale almost as old as time,
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right? Johnny was a working man. He had a paper route in his neighborhood delivering the
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newspaper. Johnny was a paper boy for the Des Moines Register and Tribune. He had his route for about a year or so
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and in this time, he was able to enjoy some of the fruits of his labor as he saved up his money and purchased a dirt
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bike. This originally was the whole reason for starting up the newspaper route uh and he got his dirt bike and
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Well, there's not too many jobs that you can get before, you know, 16 to, you know, 16 to 18. So, this is definitely
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something that especially back in the '80s and '90s even, they had paper boys. Uh
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job that I did myself. It was a great way to uh get some cash, you know, so you can buy
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some things. And the only problem with it is that most of the paper routes you had to do every day. Mhm. Yeah, Monday
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through Sunday and Sunday being the big day. You know, that's when, you know, I had a paper route as well and it seemed
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like, you know, Monday and Tuesday you could burn through your paper route real quick. You could do it in about 10, 15
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minutes if you were on bike. Uh but the route I had, it seemed like every single door
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uh received the Sunday paper uh where not as many people received it during the week and I know that we have some
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younger listeners going, "No, well, nobody buys a newspaper." Well, back then uh most people did and most people
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had it delivered to their house especially on the weekend. Yeah, and you you probably were doing your paper route
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in the '90s like me and this is, you know, a decade before that Johnny's doing the paper route. So, there's
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probably even a bigger load as far as the Sunday papers go. And somehow Johnny was able to save up
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enough money from his paper route for a dirt bike. It would have taken I don't know what kind of paper route he had,
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but my paper route, I would have had to done it for 30 years to purchase a dirt bike. Yeah. But he had his for about a
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year. He had it purchased a dirt bike and this is something that he enjoyed riding and he would go riding with his
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older half brother. They'd go out in the fields and go riding. Um but this leads
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us up to our story here. Because on September 5th, 1982, this is a Sunday at 5:30 a.m. Joe Gosh, that's
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the older half brother that we spoke about, was leaving his home. He was heading to his job at the Village Inn.
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This was located in West Des Moines. Mhm. Before leaving, Joe knocked on Johnny's bedroom door and asked if he
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was getting up to start his route. Johnny replied, "Yes." Joe, knowing his little brother was up,
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he decided it was time for him to leave his house. He left on his motorcycle and
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he went off to work. Johnny left the house to deliver papers with his dog Gretchen. This is like a
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little Deschanel wiener dog type type of dog, you know, those little great dogs.
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Not really great for scaring anybody off, but great company, you know, to walk with
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you on your paper route. And since it was Sunday route, now what Noreen claims is that the
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husband helped Johnny out every day for the 13 months that he had a paper route.
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Now, what I'm wondering is one, did he only help them help him out on the Sundays? So, would it be that he helped
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him out every Sunday, you know, because my parents would help me out sometimes on Sundays. Most of the
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time during the week, since it is a lighter load, you would do it by yourself. Yeah, you're exactly right. On
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the Sundays, you would have to make different preparations for your Sundays because like we said,
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everybody seems to get the paper on Sundays and the paper is about four times the size of of a weekday paper.
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So, you have quite a cumbersome load to to figure out. Now, I'm a little confused by that, too,
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Captain, because I've seen a few interviews with Noreen where she says that, you know, every day John Senior
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went with Johnny and helped him deliver the paper. But then I've seen other interviews where he she says, you know,
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on the weekends, John would go with with Johnny. Um Well, the way it worked in in
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my household was that they would help maybe on the weekend cuz even Saturdays were a little bit more.
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But back then it was probably just the same route Monday through Saturday and then on Sunday bigger
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with people just getting the Sunday paper. But to break down how this works, you know, you have to wake up early.
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This truck comes and delivers your papers into a bundle. Then you're going to have to take the papers out of this
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bundle, either either put a rubber band around them or put them in a bag. And so,
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when we start talking about the story, you're going to hear about how he had to go collect the bundle and that's kind of
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how he starts his route. Look, maybe he maybe Johnny was just thinking, you know, my dad's helping me out. I'm, you
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know, 13 years old now. I can I can do this route by myself and just decided not to wake him or maybe he called to
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him and he just didn't wake up and thought, "Nah, I'll just do it myself." Well, the confusing thing here, too, is
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back then, some newspapers delivered in the evening. You know, it was very typical to have an
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evening newspaper back in the early '80s. So, I don't know if during the week if it was an evening only paper and
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then on the weekend there was a morning edition. It sounds to me like there was,
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you know, obviously a morning edition on the Sunday. So, maybe John Senior only woke up to help with the early morning
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papers, you know, because in the evening time you'd be delivering when it's still
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light out. But I think you're right, Captain. I think it's a situation where little Johnny decided that, you know,
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I'm I'm I'm a man now. I've got a dirt bike, you know, I got I've had this job for over a year. I don't need my dad to
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come and help me with my paper route. I know what I'm doing. I got my little dog
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Gretchen and and on Sundays at least he took a red wagon with him. This is probably to carry all the help carry all
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the newspapers behind him. Um And so, he he gets his dog. He's got his red wagon
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that he would take with him and he used the wagon, as we said, to load up the papers and pull them beside him
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and Gretchen would go with him house to house and they would do the paper route.
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Well, for whatever reason, he did not wake up his father this morning. This day Johnny
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went out alone. So, Johnny left the house around 5:45 a.m. and we know this because his neighbor reported having
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heard Johnny pulling the wagon through his yard. This was a typical shortcut that Johnny would take regularly.
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He knew instead of, you know, instead of walking all the way up to the corner, you know, going on the sidewalk and then
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just to make a left, you could just cut diagonally through this guy's yard and and shorten your trip a little bit. And
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this was a man named Lawrence Hedlund who lived at 101 45th Street. He reported to police that he heard Johnny
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cutting through the yard around 5:50 a.m. Mhm. This shortcut would get Johnny to
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Ashworth Road where he would then go to the corner of Ashworth and 42nd Street. This is where he would collect his
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papers. So, apparently the big truck, as you said, would come by and drop several
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large stacks of newspapers and then the carriers would all kind of meet at this corner, you know, whether it be by plan
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or or by similar time because you know, the the guy the truck usually drops the papers about the same time every day.
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And you would meet there and you would do just what the Captain described. You would you would bag them up or you would
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put them in a, you know, wrap them with a rubber band and then you would start your route. And some people do this as
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they go, so you could just toss it into your wagon and as you go, you roll them.
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But the nice thing is that they're dropping off all the packages of the papers uh in in one group. So, then you're
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going to have paper boys that see each other. And they they can be account for each other as well. And that
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brings us to our first eyewitness. We have Mike. This is another paper boy. He can see Johnny walking and pulling his
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wagon. Johnny is traveling east on Ashworth walking toward Mike. Mike is at the corner of Ashworth and 42nd Street.
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Remember, this is where the truck drops the newspapers for the carriers to collect.
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Mhm. Mike sees a car traveling west on Ashworth, opposite direction as Johnny. Uh the car stops and backs up to where
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Johnny is and Mike observes Johnny talking to the driver. After they are done talking, Johnny
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continues east and then the car makes a U-turn and turns around on Ashworth now heading east toward the paper drop
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location. The car stops where the boys are collecting their newspapers and the driver he he's asking for directions.
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There is an adult near the corner. Yeah, but this is what's weird anyways cuz you
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you just stopped and asked Johnny. So, what did Johnny say? We don't know, but we're assuming we could assume that
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Johnny didn't give him directions or didn't know the answer to this question. Therefore, that's the why the guy is
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doing a U-turn and now he's now in a group of boys collective. Mhm. And there is an adult there. His name is John
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Rossi. Johnny asked Mr. Rossi to help the man and then the man gets in his car and he
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takes off. It's at this time that eyewitnesses are going to get their vehicle description
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and they describe the car as a two-tone blue two-door Ford Fairmont. Johnny is now walking down 42nd Street. This is
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when Mike sees a man. It's been reported that he said a tall man or a large man step out from between some houses Mhm.
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and start walking in the same direction as Johnny, but this man's walking, you know, a ways behind Johnny. Almost like
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he's following him. Yeah, like he's the trailer. Mhm. So, this tall or large man, he's
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actually on the opposite side of the street as Johnny, but he's going to cross over the street and end up on the
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same side and now following Johnny. Uh Johnny then passes two other carriers. They are on the opposite side of the
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street traveling in the other direction. The boys exchange hello hellos, but these two boys, for whatever reason,
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they do not seem to notice the tall or large man on foot following Johnny. Mhm. Johnny turns down Marquardt Street. Uh
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this is where P.J. Smith is in bed. His house is across the street on Marquardt from where he believe where everyone
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believes that Johnny would have last been standing or walking last. Mhm. P.J. Smith, he hears the sound of a
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car door closing or slamming. Uh this causes him to, you know, to lay up in bed and and and he sees uh what he
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describes as a silver and black Ford Fairmont vehicle. And this is probably right around sunrise, I would believe.
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So, now this car races off uh ignoring a stop sign and it turns left. And Mr. Smith can see the
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unattended wagon, Johnny Gosch's wagon, sitting by the sidewalk. Not too long after after that, two
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carriers walk by and they see the wagon as well, but they do not see Johnny Gosch anywhere. Right. And then the
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wagon, there's still his dog, Gretchen. Correct? Yeah. Yeah, so now that is an account There are several
00:19:30
different accounts of of what occurred that morning that led up to the disappearance of Johnny.
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We have multiple eyewitnesses, one an adult, a few of these young boys that are that are out doing their newspaper
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routes. And they've told these stories to the police and that's collectively the best
00:19:50
scenario, the best eyewitness accounts that we could piece together that would sound or form more
00:19:56
like a police report. Now, I do think in all fairness that we should also report
00:20:02
Noreen Gosch's version of this same story. Now, I do want to point out that there are some a lot of similarities,
00:20:09
but there are also some slight differences. Now, one thing that we've been privy to
00:20:14
and you can find this on the internet. There are many many interviews out there with Noreen Gosch and she is happy to
00:20:23
tell Johnny's story over and over again and that's why we get these different versions of what took place that
00:20:30
morning. Yeah, well, the question then becomes is it is it a new version because a lot of
00:20:35
the versions that she is giving she's giving versions based off of eyewitness testimony, right? Or or
00:20:42
people coming towards her and saying, "Hey, this is what I saw that day." And so, yeah, okay, her story in 1982
00:20:50
is going to be different in 1985. Her story in 1987 is going to be different if more people keep remembering stuff
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and then obviously just the way she ends up telling it. Sometimes you'd leave something out, you know,
00:21:03
if you're doing so many interviews. I mean, the one thing you can say is that this altered this lady's life and she
00:21:09
really worked really hard to try to get justice or some closures or anything for
00:21:15
her son. So, that's she she did her job as far as doing a ton of interviews. The problem with
00:21:22
that though is there becomes these gray areas. I guess that would be the best way to say it. Yeah, you're very right.
00:21:28
Johnny's mother, Noreen, would be Johnny's loudest and in an unwavering voice. She would be
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willing to keep his case alive forever and for at least as long as she's on this planet, right?
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Noreen has a very similar yet a little bit different version of the abduction and I've tried to piece it together best
00:21:48
as I could given her interviews over the years. All right, so let's get to that right after this quick beer break.
00:21:55
Welcome back, Captain. Welcome. Cheers. Yeah, so we are going to go through Noreen's version and as the Captain had
00:22:01
said that she has given many interviews throughout the years. So, this might not
00:22:06
be altering versions. It may just be updated versions. But Noreen's version is pretty much the
00:22:12
same leading up to the point of where the boys gathered at the papers and I'll recap that real quick. This is Johnny
00:22:18
wakes up and he leaves the house without his father, takes his little dog in his
00:22:23
wagon, he makes the shortcut through the neighbor's yard. And we know this from his older half brother. And when he when
00:22:29
he's making his way to the point where he's going to collect his newspapers, a car stops, a vehicle stops and the
00:22:35
driver is seen talking to Johnny. Now, Johnny continues on after talking to the driver,
00:22:42
meets up with the other carriers and he's collecting his papers. And this is where the story gets a little different.
00:22:49
In Noreen's version, the the man then pulls up to the corner where the boys are collecting their newspapers.
00:22:57
And the man shuts off the car's engine. He opens up the passenger door and he gets out and with slurred speech, he is
00:23:05
asking about Well, he doesn't actually get out. He just puts his feet down on the pavement.
00:23:10
not fully standing up. He's just kind of got the legs out of the vehicle. Right.
00:23:14
And with slurred speech, he is asking about directions to 86th Street. This is when Johnny turns to Mike and
00:23:23
says, "I've got my papers loaded in the wagon. I'm scared. I'm getting out of here. I'm
00:23:29
going home." Yeah, there's something creepy. He had this you know, feeling inside I think about
00:23:35
this guy that there was some evil doing going on. Now, before I get some hate mail saying, "No, Noreen said that
00:23:42
Johnny said this." If you go back and you watch multiple interviews, what she says that Johnny
00:23:48
says changes a little bit every time. The reason why I believe that that's the situation here, Captain, she's hearing
00:23:54
this second hand from people that not they're not adults. These are these are young boys that are out very early in
00:24:01
the morning doing their newspaper route. And they also don't know that something
00:24:05
important is going to happen that day. They think that this is just a regular day, right? You don't remember
00:24:10
everything that somebody says verbatim unless you think it's something important. And so,
00:24:18
Johnny basically says something to the effect of this guy's kind of creepy. Right. And
00:24:23
I'm I'm going to go about my business or I'm going home. Yeah, he might have said
00:24:27
like Captain Creepypants. I mean, who knows? Regardless, this is where Johnny continues down he's collected his
00:24:34
papers. Now, he's going to continue towards his paper route. Yeah, because he has a job to do. I mean, you have
00:24:40
kind of a deadline. People expect their papers at a certain time. Yeah, and once Johnny starts to head
00:24:47
down the street, the other boys, they start to some of them start to leave as well. This is when Mike, he's one of the
00:24:53
other paper boys. Mhm. He sees the man getting back into his car or or pulling his legs into the car and getting back
00:25:01
into the driver's seat. He turns on the engine and he clicks the dome light three
00:25:08
times. Mhm. Mike looks down the street to see Johnny heading down the street walking away
00:25:14
from Mike and Mike sees a tall man. He says about 6'3". Yeah. Come out from some bushes and
00:25:22
begin walking down the street after Johnny. Now, let's let's dive into this just a
00:25:27
little bit. I've I've often wondered about this and it's been discussed by many many people.
00:25:35
If there were two people involved if there weren't two people there. Right. If it was only the driver in the his car
00:25:41
or if there was a man on foot and and if the man on foot had anything to do with
00:25:46
Johnny's disappearance at all. Noreen suspects that the clicking of the dome light was some kind of signal to signal
00:25:55
this man to come out or start walking after Johnny. Mhm. Um I think that's a reasonable assumption. I think it's a
00:26:02
reasonable assumption and and I can go along with that. But I'm going to throw it on the 50/50 table because here
00:26:09
here's one thing that I kept thinking about when when reading this account over and over again. Mhm. Now, remember
00:26:14
in those old cars, my my first car was a 1986 Buick. So, probably not too much newer.
00:26:22
Yeah. Probably not too much newer than a than the vehicle that this person was driving. He was driving a late '70s,
00:26:28
early '80s vehicle. Uh-huh. Now, one thing in the dome light, you know how like the dome light has three modes.
00:26:34
It's either off, on or it's on when the car door is open. Yeah. And you know how like when you're in in
00:26:41
the car and if it's dark, you never really know if forward is turning it from car door to on or to to off. Right.
00:26:49
So, if you were trying to just simply turn off the dome light so it wouldn't turn on when your car door opens,
00:26:56
sometimes you would you would you would flick it on and then you would flick it back to car mode and then you
00:27:00
would flick it off. Mhm. And sometimes with these old vehicles, it would cause the light to go on, off,
00:27:06
on and then off. Well, yeah, I'm picking up what you're putting down. You see what I'm saying there? I part of
00:27:11
me wondered if this guy is alone and if he's not actually signaling another villain, that that he's simply just
00:27:19
trying to turn off his car dome light because he's going to go do something bad and he might not want his face seen
00:27:25
or less chance of there being light on him at this point. And maybe it was just him figuring out how to turn the dome
00:27:32
light off and it it wasn't signaling anybody at all. Well, we know that. We know that uh
00:27:37
Johnny saw him, we know that Mike saw him and then we also know that the adult saw him. Mhm. Um John Rossi, I believe
00:27:44
is his name. Again, now why is this adult out there? The adult the adult is out there because he's helping his kid
00:27:51
with his route. So, the adult is out there to pick up the papers. Sometimes you'd have this happen. I had my best
00:27:57
friend had a paper route. I did my paper route probably 80% of the time without my parents' help. My friend on the other
00:28:04
hand, his parents would collect the papers, help roll them and then wake him up. So, he's kind of lucky in that
00:28:10
fashion. He's one of those privileged kids with the paper route. Yeah, he's privileged. But but
00:28:16
but this adult's account is in my eyes makes a lot of sense because this adult is a lawyer himself.
00:28:23
Yeah, and he gives a little he puts in his two cents about the the man that he saw in the car. You know, the the the
00:28:30
boy, Mike, and some of the other kids had said referenced slurred speech. Right. So, your immediate thought is,
00:28:37
well, was this guy drunk? You know, was he hammered? Is he intoxicated? Yeah, and
00:28:44
Mike Rossi, the adult, he believed he didn't believe that the guy was intoxicated. He actually states that
00:28:51
the guy seemed pretty alert, almost hyperactive and kind of like ready to ready to go.
00:28:59
It didn't seem sleepy at all. But again, we have a adult waking up early, probably waking up early a bunch
00:29:05
of times. And then you got a bunch of early teenager kids waking up. This is a lot harder for them to wake up and get
00:29:11
their brains processing. Now, one thing that he did throw in about the description of the guy, Mike Rossi, he
00:29:17
says that the guy John Rossi, right? Oh, sorry. John Rossi. I'm confusing the boy with the
00:29:23
with the adult. Thank you. But John Rossi says that the suspect or the person that stopped to ask for
00:29:30
directions, he also didn't appear like he had just rolled out of bed, which which John Rossi thought was weird at
00:29:36
the time. Yeah. Because most adults, you you get up, it's very early. It's 5:00 5:45, 6:00 in the morning even though
00:29:43
that it's a weekend, you know, you're going to look you may look like you just rolled out of bed. This guy seemed like
00:29:49
he had either been up all night or he'd been up for some time. Heck, I looked like I just rolled out of bed at 9:00 at
00:29:54
night. That's 24/7, son. 24/7 That's Anyways, yeah, so then what happens next? Okay, so now Johnny is he's
00:30:04
walking down the street and this is at the point where the the tall man who is said to be about 6'3" comes walking out
00:30:13
from the bushes and he's walking from He's walking behind Johnny. Now, I've also often wondered about the 6'3"
00:30:21
reference. Is your only frame of reference for putting a height on this guy? Is it Is it in reference to how
00:30:29
tall Johnny is? Because Johnny was a tall kid. I mean, in my opinion, he was He was only 12 12 years old and yet he's
00:30:37
5'7" at the time. So, I think that I think that a vehicle somebody driving that did not know
00:30:44
Johnny that saw him on the side of the road, especially when it's dark, just out of
00:30:49
reference by height, I would actually think that Johnny would be older. Personally, that's what I would think
00:30:55
that maybe that this guy's actually about instead of 12 or 13 that he'd more likely to be about 15. Right.
00:31:02
So, I don't know if they came up with the height of 6'3" as a reference to how much taller he would have been than
00:31:09
Johnny. He's 6'3", so that's that's roughly what? We got 8 in there. So, are they
00:31:15
saying, "Ah, he's about a half a foot to a foot taller than Johnny." Anyway, that's the height that they come up
00:31:22
with. Now, at some point, this is where Johnny he's walking down the street and he goes down
00:31:28
another street. He makes And this is out of Mike's sight. This is where Johnny goes to Marquardt Street. And Mike hears
00:31:38
a car door slam. Uh-huh. Hears the car door slam shut and then the same vehicle that the boys had seen earlier.
00:31:45
Yeah, the blue the blue two-tone blue Ford two-door, yep. Mike sees that car speed off turning left and heading
00:31:53
toward the interstate. And now this all roughly takes place in about a They say 12-minute time period. Let's
00:32:01
say 10 to 15 minutes. In my first-hand account of being a paper boy, I mean, not only was I a paper boy, but I was a
00:32:08
honorary paper boy. I had a special bag and everything. He had a special helmet that he wore. Yeah, that was to school.
00:32:15
Um but the thing is is it was odd if you'd see I mean, you'd see the the big truck come out, drop off the papers. I
00:32:24
was a carrier for the Columbus Dispatch. And that's pretty much it. And I I was by major roads, but you normally
00:32:32
like on the courts that I was delivering papers on, you normally would never see
00:32:36
a car. Yeah, some mornings you would see nothing at all. You wouldn't even see a
00:32:40
a light turn on in a house sometimes. Yeah, I mean, it was it was kind of strange to the fact I you know, I
00:32:47
believe that this this was probably one of the only cars in the vicinity. So, I do believe this is the suspect that
00:32:53
we're looking at. Um there are some other things about Noreen's story, right? So, there she
00:32:59
would later make reference to the fact that she believes that Johnny was shot or struck by something.
00:33:09
That that eyewitness had seen Johnny on the ground and then he's picked up by two men and and placed in the back of of
00:33:19
a vehicle. Right, the blue vehicle we could assume. And the vehicle drives off. Now, keep in
00:33:23
mind And now this is this account is coming from an individual that kind of wakes up
00:33:29
when they hear a scuffle and kind of looks out the window. We have a strange situation here and I
00:33:34
think that the the one eyewitness that we discussed earlier, Mr. P.J. Smith, that I think he just because of the
00:33:41
lighting at the time and because he's looking out a window, he describes the vehicle that he sees as two-tone, but
00:33:50
it's it's a Well, not two-tone, it's a silver and black car. Right. Where a light blue and dark blue car may
00:33:57
appear to be silver and black if it's not under a a street light or if it's sitting in the
00:34:03
dark. And like I said, the the sun rise has probably not happened yet. There's probably not a bunch of sun at this
00:34:10
point. And keep in mind, the boys are saying, "We saw the exact same car of the guy that was talking to us. We saw
00:34:19
that exact same car speed off and make a left and head towards the interstate." Now, Yeah, and then the other the other
00:34:27
statement that she makes and I and I don't know where she's getting this information from is that then this car
00:34:32
speeds off and then meets up with a van, a white van, and then they basically take Johnny out of the car and put him
00:34:40
into the white van, like a cargo van. Again, there's a reason why we call these creeper vans. Yeah. You know, it's like
00:34:48
time and time again, "Oh, what was he driving?" A creeper van. But let's keep in mind here. This is what I I try to
00:34:54
keep in mind. That Mhm. all of the eyewitnesses from the statements recorded way back in September of 1982,
00:35:02
none of them mentioned seeing Johnny on the ground. None of them mentioned seeing two men throwing his body into a
00:35:09
vehicle. And again, none of them mentioned seeing a white van or a van of any sort.
00:35:14
And what we're talking about when he first arrived in the garage was I we're talking about the trailer and I was
00:35:20
telling you Well, first of all, you you knocked on me cuz it was a little too Stranger Things. But uh I I meant that
00:35:28
as a compliment. Oh, I thought it was a knock on me. I was wearing my special helmet. So,
00:35:33
uh but what happened with the first trailer, I wish I took original interview from like the mid-80s. It was
00:35:42
done on like one of those old giant home recorder things, but the audio was so bad, I just couldn't use it. And so then
00:35:50
I found a new test, you know, basically telling the same story of how he got abducted.
00:35:57
And it was it was off and one of the things that was way different was that he was tased or shot by something.
00:36:03
And again, I I don't know how common tasers were at that time. I'm assuming not that popular, not as popular as they
00:36:13
are today, obviously. But the the second account and the account that you will hear in the
00:36:17
trailer, that's from 2016. You know, and that's you know, I can't find a lot of accounts where they talk
00:36:26
about this uh being shocked or even put into this cargo van, the creeper van. Part of me
00:36:33
wonders if that's a theory. Um you know, and sometimes these theories manifest into something that that you
00:36:38
just start to believe yourself at some point. But I do believe that Johnny might have been difficult to get into a
00:36:44
vehicle. He was 5'7". He was an active young boy and and the other thing too is if his words
00:36:53
were exactly any form of of the conversations that we have heard back at the paper at the paper pickup,
00:37:01
Right. he already had a heightened sense of awareness at this time. He's already he
00:37:05
he's on his game because he's already he's either frightened or he's been or he said this guy's a weirdo, you know,
00:37:11
and usually I tell you what, man, at that time of day at 6:00 in the morning, it's still it's still dark out. You
00:37:18
encounter a weirdo, you're you're on your game. You're you're Yeah, I mean, it's creepy, man. It's you
00:37:23
know, last night I was you know, talking to my friend pretty late and I saw a jogger. Mhm. You know,
00:37:29
and and it kind of freaked me out a little bit. It's because you don't expect to see
00:37:33
anything or anybody. Why are you jogging? Yeah. Yeah, did did you carry any kind of protection with you on your
00:37:41
paper route? I mean, I had my helmet. Yeah, your special helmet that you just just take the brunt of the force being
00:37:48
No, it varied. I mean, sometimes I'd walk on the route and but most of the time I was using like my
00:37:53
BMX, you know, my I had a Mongoose Expert. You you had a badass bike. Well, I saved I was very jealous of that
00:38:00
bike. I saved up for my paper route. You know, some people use their money wisely
00:38:04
and I bought a Mongoose Expert and uh and I'd ride around and like it it would freak you out sometimes. The the thing
00:38:11
that would scare me the most is when you go to toss the paper and the front door
00:38:16
would open. to open at the same time. God, it Oh, it's the most I mean, you almost piss
00:38:21
yourself right there on the spot. I used to do like a little contest with myself.
00:38:26
I would time myself and and I would constantly try to beat like uh if it was Monday, I was trying to beat last
00:38:31
Monday's time. You were like the CrossFit of the paper boys, you know, timing your workout.
00:38:36
But I had I did have a little weapon because on on rare occasion, I would get the dog chasing my bike Uh-huh.
00:38:43
situation and I never had to use it, thank God, cuz I don't know that I would be able to do it if I had to, but
00:38:50
I had one of those little souvenir baseball bats. You remember those things you get at the baseball game? Columbus
00:38:55
Clippers ring your bell? Yeah, I I think I had a either Clipper one or maybe Cincinnati
00:39:00
Reds or something, but it's about a about a foot long, maybe 14 in. Maybe it was the Indians Go Tribe.
00:39:06
have cracked somebody in the head with that thing. not talk about the baseball bats on
00:39:10
people's heads because after The Walking Dead, I mean, I'm just uh I'm having nightmares, man. It's pure
00:39:16
torture. Let's get back to the case. Yes, so what ends up happening now? Johnny's gone. Okay. And
00:39:23
what happens on these paper routes back then, I don't know how they work today. Like today, if my newspaper doesn't show
00:39:30
up and yes, I do still get the newspaper on the weekends. Old school. Yeah. Well, I like I like the way it
00:39:35
feels in my hand. So, That's what she said. when my newspaper doesn't show up, I
00:39:39
just called the the Dispatch's customer service and I wait 45 minutes before I get to speak to somebody. Well, because
00:39:48
of all these situations, I mean, starting way back in in '82 with Johnny Gosch. I mean, like we talked about one
00:39:55
of the most famous abduction cases in history. It's a paperboy. Now, like I said, we were you
00:40:01
know, I was doing the the papers in the I don't know, mid '90s, I'm guessing. But, shortly after that, it it became
00:40:10
non-existent and now they give the routes to adults and they're all car routes, at least in in Columbus. Yeah.
00:40:17
So, but but what I'm saying is back then you didn't call customer service to report your paper missing and even when
00:40:24
you and I did our paper routes, most of the time most of the time they would just call your house or your
00:40:30
parents and say, "Guess what? The captain didn't show up with the paper today." I didn't see that kid with his funny
00:40:36
helmet. He must be in the garage talking to himself. Yeah. He's recording. So, but back then so Johnny's parents
00:40:43
start receiving phone calls that hey, our newspaper has not shown up and so John Sr. He just believes that Johnny's
00:40:51
running late. Oh, oh my boy's out there for the first time on his own, he's probably running late. Yeah, well, cuz
00:40:55
at this point, you know, Big John, we'll call him Big John. He wakes up. He's getting calls. Hey,
00:41:02
and they're probably not mean calls. I mean, this is '82, people were a little bit nicer back then. But, it's like,
00:41:07
"Hey, I haven't got my paper yet." And so, he probably thought, "Oh, crap. You know, little Johnny went out by himself.
00:41:14
So, now I'm going to go look for him." So, he goes out on his route and now my route was
00:41:19
basically a short court a little longer court and then a very long court. But, you know, for my
00:41:26
parents to come out and find me, it may be 10 minutes at most. So, so so Johnny Big John goes out to look out for little
00:41:35
John, can't find him, rushes back home and immediately he calls the police and he states, "Look, there's something must
00:41:42
be wrong cuz I you know, one, people aren't getting their papers, but I can't find them
00:41:47
anywhere." I thought that he found the wagon, that he spotted the wagon with the newspapers in it and that's when he
00:41:53
knew that something was wrong, that that kind of tipped him off. Yeah, I don't have that in my notes, but
00:41:58
that I mean, that totally and you know, I watched the documentary, which is an amazing documentary. I think
00:42:05
if anybody gets a chance and if you want to dive into this case more, that's definitely I mean,
00:42:10
we're going to cover it more, obviously, but that's a good place to start. But, yeah, so but there
00:42:17
not only is the wagon there, but the dog is there and the papers are there. Yeah, and and you're right. He goes he
00:42:24
goes home immediately. He wakes up Noreen or Noreen's already up and he tells her, "Call the police.
00:42:31
Johnny's missing." Noreen calls the police and she says by her account that it was approximately 45
00:42:38
minutes before the police arrive to take a report and back then, unfortunately, they had a 72-hour waiting period when a
00:42:50
when a teenager would specifically a teenager would go missing. I I would imagine hopefully they would have better
00:42:56
procedure if it's a 3-year-old or 5-year-old, but when when laws were different and because of situations like
00:43:03
these, laws have been changed or had to be changed. The other thing that Noreen does, which is interesting, is she calls
00:43:11
the district manager of the paper route because every like route like I had a guy that I had to
00:43:18
report to if something was you know, if somebody you know, if somebody called my house
00:43:22
and they're missing the paper, they could also call the dispatch to complain, but it would go to my district
00:43:28
manager. So, she ends up calling the district manager explaining like, "Look, we can't find
00:43:33
Johnny." She gets the numbers of the boys on the different paper routes. They get a good model of the car, you
00:43:42
know, the man talking to the boys. So, she starts collecting and and this is pretty
00:43:48
quick afterwards. I mean, we're talking about within an hour or two, let's say, to be safe.
00:43:54
She's now collecting eyewitness accounts because she doesn't have anything to report to the police and she's getting
00:44:00
these eyewitness accounts from the other paperboys. Right. And and like we said,
00:44:05
it's about 45 minutes from the time that they called the police that they arrive. They take the report
00:44:11
from the parents and at some point they are asked, "Well, has he ever run away before?"
00:44:19
And they almost worded in a way that that sounds like he's probably run away before and he's run away again this
00:44:26
time. And Noreen and and John Big John say, you know, "Well, he's never run away at
00:44:32
all, including this time." And And in fairness to the cops though, this is something that you would think that
00:44:39
you need to ask. Well, and this this is one thing that we talked about when we covered the West Memphis 3. You know,
00:44:45
there were so many people in the Paradise Lost documentaries that got angry and upset with John Mark Byers
00:44:54
because he seemed to throw out there that, "Oh, my son was on this this prescribed drug and he happened to not
00:45:00
take it today." And really what we pointed out there is what we're going to point out here. There are certain
00:45:06
questions that the police are trained to ask given certain situations and in a missing person's case or when a person
00:45:14
is being reported as such, a police officer is he's he or she is trained to ask, "Are they on any medications? Have
00:45:23
they ever run away before?" So, what happens is sometimes this is very off-putting to the parents and what I
00:45:30
think happened here is I think we've seen Noreen. Okay, she's a take-no-prisoners kind of person. I
00:45:36
really I really as far as her being a crusader for Johnny, I champion her and I and I like the cut of her jib and I
00:45:45
think what has happened here is I think when she was asked, "Has your son ever run away before?" I think Noreen
00:45:51
probably gave the officer the business and this really kind of ticked off the police department. Yeah, but but she
00:45:57
doesn't give like the crazy business. I mean, you you hear her sometimes in interviews get a little animated, but in
00:46:03
no way, shape or form is is she like a a disrespectful person. She seems very respectful from people and obviously she
00:46:12
might be a little hysterical cuz her boy is gone, but uh she seems very respectful. I just mean she's a person
00:46:18
looking for help and I don't think she believes she was receiving it at that time. No [ __ ] right? Yeah. And like you
00:46:24
had said, she goes into action mode on her own and Big John goes into action mode on his own. They they go into
00:46:32
parental, we are in charge, we're going to find our child mode and the other thing here, too, is after the
00:46:39
police take the report, they don't come back for several hours later to talk with the the parents again and
00:46:47
this is when Noreen and Big John are collecting this information. They've even started organizing their own
00:46:54
searches by this time. Cuz basically now what's happening is they're they're talking to all these paperboys on their
00:47:00
routes. They're talking to the customers of their their child that haven't received their paper.
00:47:05
The whole community in in in essence is worried. You got the cops in there looking at you saying, "Hey,
00:47:13
he probably just ran away." Which makes zero sense. Okay. Zero sense. You're exactly right. Go ahead. Okay, cuz one,
00:47:21
think about this way. I mean, his little you know, maybe he wasn't in love with his little
00:47:26
what red wagon he had, right? But, he was using that as a tool. But, it's just like my mongoose expert. There's no way
00:47:32
in hell I'm leaving that bike behind. So, but here's what we got. We have the wagon, we got papers. This kid for 13
00:47:41
months was super responsible with his paper route. We don't have any accounts that we know of of neglect or
00:47:48
lackadaisical attitude towards his business. And then we have his dog. That's the
00:47:54
biggest part of this. You're exactly right. If you don't like your dog, you're not taking the dog on the paper
00:48:00
route. You're not just doing that for the fun of it. You're doing it cuz you you know, you love your dog and you want
00:48:05
to hey, I'll just take my dog with me. Right. He was a part of the paper. He or she, Gretchen, she's a part of the paper
00:48:10
route. And I think you're exactly right, Captain. I think that I understand the 72-hour waiting period. Back then, more
00:48:16
kids ran away than than currently. Whatever, but when you see when you see the circumstance, when you see the empty
00:48:24
when you see the wagon sitting there full of papers, you see the dog left behind, that doesn't that doesn't scream
00:48:30
runaway. Well, we have two pieces of evidence that really important. We have this mysterious man that we have
00:48:38
multiple eyewitness accounts of seeing this mysterious man in this not mysterious car, but it's a
00:48:45
you know, whatever. It's this car. We got the eyewitness accounts of that. And then we
00:48:50
have the scene where Johnny left all his stuff. By all those accounts, there's nothing to me that points in the
00:48:58
direction of runaway. No, this this screams a potential dangerous abduction that
00:49:05
that he probably went somewhere unwillingly. That And not only is this man seen and
00:49:11
spotted twice, he's spotted twice both times speaking directly to Johnny Gosch. Well, and then he speeds away and just
00:49:20
the creep factor. I mean, so let's let's go through the description of this uh of this guy. So,
00:49:28
the from the eyewitness accounts, this is what we were able to piece together. The suspect is 5'9", approximately 5'9",
00:49:35
175 lb. He had dark eyes, dark eyebrows, appeared to be in his early to mid-40s,
00:49:44
black hair which was combed back. He had a black mustache. And it's also reported that he either
00:49:51
had a heavy beard or unshaven appearance. And he also may have appeared to be be
00:49:56
Latin. May have been driving a two-tone blue car, real dark top and light blue bottom.
00:50:05
Mid-size vehicle. Approximately 1979 to 1981 model, clean inside and out, no vinyl top,
00:50:14
plush interior. And here's one thing that's very helpful is the Iowa license plate. Mhm.
00:50:22
The other thing that's interesting about that Iowa plate is Noreen claims to have
00:50:26
had a partial plate, you know, partial plate number. I would love to see that on a website
00:50:33
somewhere, but that's not been given in any of the the interviews or the documentaries that I know of. Do you
00:50:39
want to talk about the search party? Yeah, so like we talked about before, I mean, Noreen is now calling in Big John
00:50:47
and talking to a lot of the the neighborhood. And they basically get together about 20 people or over 20
00:50:54
people. Anywhere from let's say 30 to 50 people, right? Let's just do a bigger range. 30
00:51:01
to 50 people show up at this park and they're going to search. They're starting search party for Johnny.
00:51:07
Well, the sheriff shows up, right? Yeah. And the sheriff shows up and this guy is
00:51:12
going to play a bigger factor in this story as we go. Yeah, we'll get into him more later, but
00:51:17
but as far as this is concerned, this is Sheriff Police Chief Orville Clooney. Shows up to the uh Police Chief. Sorry,
00:51:25
I said uh Sheriff. Police Chief, um Captain uh Police Chief Douche Schnozzel is what we'll call him.
00:51:33
But basically he shows up, stands up on a picnic table and says, "Hey, everybody
00:51:38
go home. This kid is nothing but a damn runaway." Mhm. Now, 23 people of this bigger group show up at the front lawn
00:51:47
of the Gosches' house and and say and they're standing outside and they said uh oh, you know, they're pissed off cuz
00:51:55
they're like, "Wait a second, we thought you wanted our help." And they said, "Well, yeah, we yeah, we
00:52:00
did want you we did want your help. What the hell's going on?" Yeah. And they they're like, "Well, you
00:52:04
know, Police uh Chief Captain Douche Schnozzel told us to go home. He says he's just a runaway."
00:52:10
Another thing that uh Noreen did that I thought was interesting because the FBI at this point, a lot of times now you'll
00:52:17
see missing kid, the FBI shows up right away. So that the FBI never showed up. So um
00:52:24
Noreen calls the FBI, two agents came out to the home. Uh they explained to her, "Hey, uh we we
00:52:31
know the case. We know what's happening. But uh we will not be entering the case
00:52:37
and that you need to prove to us that the child is in some sort of danger. The Police Chief doesn't want our help."
00:52:44
So again, small community. Here's what we have um a Police Chief that is now assuming it's a runaway. All the
00:52:55
evidence points to that doesn't make any goddamn sense. Right? Mhm. And and all So not only do we we're going to
00:53:04
assume he's a runaway, but we don't want the help of the FBI. And there was a police officer that's on
00:53:11
the documentary. And this is a retired officer, obviously. He's an older gentleman. And I should go ahead before
00:53:18
I bash him too much, I should commend him for actually coming forward and talking about the case for what what he
00:53:24
could offer. Um because a lot of people seems like that were involved in the police
00:53:29
department at the time don't want to talk about this case. Uh so like there was a lot of bad stuff going,
00:53:35
you know, kind of a trickle-down effect. And look, I mean, I'm not you know, this
00:53:40
Police Chief um might not be an awful person. He just might have made some mistakes. But
00:53:47
but sometimes, you know, people get in a in a um they get in position of power and they try to control things and they
00:53:55
try to do things their way. And that's not always on the up and up. And the more power they get, more they take
00:54:01
advantage of situations or maybe they even get lazy and they don't want to do their job. Well, the the police officer
00:54:07
that I'm talking about, the retired officer that was in the documentary, uh and this this is as of like 2015 the
00:54:15
documentary came out. I don't know when the interview was conducted, but I'm assuming it would have been 2014 or
00:54:21
early 2015. Well, they're they're actually working on that documentary for like 4 or 5
00:54:27
years. So they were involved in this documentary for a long time. But but regardless, this case is over 30 years
00:54:33
old. So we're talking at the time of this interview had to have been 25 years or later after the crime. And the police
00:54:40
retired police officer says simply, "We didn't He's explaining why they didn't investigate.
00:54:47
And his answer is, "We didn't have a crime scene." Mhm. Now, I just have such a hard time with that
00:54:54
because we the whole damn place is a crime scene. You know, the from from the from the minute that Johnny is seen
00:55:02
talking to that unknown person in the vehicle, when he's off by himself, to the point where he gets to pick up his
00:55:07
newspapers, to where they find his wagon full of newspapers, Mhm. that's all a crime scene.
00:55:14
Yeah, yeah, I totally agree with that. Yeah, I mean, and and and it baffles me where they go, "Well, there's there's no
00:55:20
crime scene." Again, your wagon is left with your papers and your dog. Again, now if you take away that dog to me,
00:55:29
Mhm. and it's just the wagon with some papers, I might I might start leaning more to your side of all there's no
00:55:35
crime scene. But you know, what boy is going to leave their dog behind? I mean, give me a
00:55:41
break. Okay, so that is the the general story of the abduction, uh you know, eyewitness accounts,
00:55:48
Noreen's accounts, Big John's accounts. Um and then we have, you know, within the next few years, there are a few
00:55:56
weird and strange happenings that occur. And actually we'll get into those in more detail later because
00:56:02
Yeah, in the part two of it's a part of the grander scheme of things. Uh but there is somebody that we do have to
00:56:07
introduce uh before the end of this episode. And that is a man by the name of Paul Benacci. Yeah.
00:56:15
Now, this is a guy, a young man that comes forward and when I say young man, he's actually a man when he comes
00:56:20
forward. He's not uh he's not Johnny's age at the time of Johnny's disappearance. And what year does he
00:56:25
come forward? This is 9 years after Johnny is abducted. Okay. Um Paul Benacci comes
00:56:33
Yeah, he comes forward and he says that um Well, I you know, and this is how he's
00:56:40
described. He's a he's a guy that's sitting in jail, right? And he's in jail for um
00:56:46
sex offender child molestation charges of his own. Um now, we should phrase that appropriately. He apparently
00:56:55
he improperly touched his cousin. And uh So there was something that was going on
00:57:02
there, but Benacci was 17 at the time that he was he was arrested for this. Uh so it does seem a little strange that he
00:57:10
would still be in jail for it 9 years later. Right. Regardless, he gets in contact with his um lawyer,
00:57:18
with his attorney. And he's telling the attorney about um some strange things of his childhood.
00:57:27
Right. And he was involved in uh in kind of the sex slave business, if you will. Right. Um Well, and this is at
00:57:35
this time people, you know, and they talk about this in the documentary, too, is a lot
00:57:41
of these investigators and stuff didn't even know what the word pedo- pedophile was. Mhm.
00:57:48
And he tells his attorney all these these stories about this child sex ring. And he was at these these parties where
00:57:57
people would have sex with children or children would do things with these adults. And some of these adults are are
00:58:03
figureheads of the community. Some of them are People of power. are politicians and
00:58:09
police chiefs. And now this is this is taking place in Omaha, Nebraska. Yeah. And remember, Johnny Gosch was abducted
00:58:17
in Des Moines, Iowa. Yeah. Uh so this is across the the straight the state line there.
00:58:24
Um but the thing that further makes this these allegations even wilder Right. is he says, "I was involved in the
00:58:35
abduction of Johnny Gosch." And he says that like we said again, this is extremely
00:58:42
popular case in that area in the Midwest. And in our area, we're part of the Midwest. But the other thing that makes
00:58:49
this really strange is he talks about, you know, he has a like a personality disorder. And maybe he has multiple
00:58:54
personalities and he can almost summons these. And you can see it time and time again where he will
00:59:01
lay his head on the table when he's talking and going over these events. And then he kind of summons you know,
00:59:07
alter personality. Yeah, and I don't know if I believe any of that [ __ ] but Well, let's get into that in a minute.
00:59:15
Let's talk about the abduction again. Mhm. So this is Paul Benacci's involvement, according to Paul. He says
00:59:22
that he was used to kind of lure Johnny because at the time Paul would have been
00:59:30
only a few years older than Johnny. Yeah. And this might have made it easier to get him in the vehicle or to draw him
00:59:36
close if you needed to do something to him. Yeah. Paul said that not only was his job to lure Johnny
00:59:42
near the vehicle or to talk to the other men involved, but at some point his job
00:59:48
was to hold down Johnny Gosch in the backseat of this vehicle Yeah. and chloroform him. You know, that's where
00:59:55
you take the the the the rag or whatever and you stuff it over the person's face
00:59:59
and you hold it there until they they they fall asleep. Um Well, the the fumes are what makes them pass out. Yeah, and
01:00:07
he says that this was his job in the um in the process. Now, this would go along
01:00:12
somewhat with Noreen's version uh that we we we would hear later of the vehicle of the car
01:00:19
pulling up and creeper van. to the creeper van and then then the body going from the car to the
01:00:26
creeper van. Mhm. And then I would assume that it'd be limp at that you know, Johnny's body
01:00:30
would be limp at that point because uh you know, uh of the the rag and and and you know, the asphyxiation, right?
01:00:38
Mhm. Is that what happens? Well, no, cuz it that that would mean he would be completely dead.
01:00:42
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so it but But he's knocked him out with this rag. yeah, yeah.
01:00:47
And mobilizes him. So, It the story seems plausible, but it's also very crazy, right? And where Well,
01:00:57
what's his motive for talk talking about this? I mean, I you know, is cuz sometimes there's that you know, you
01:01:04
tell us some information we'll let you go early. You know, but actually this is implementing you in something way bigger
01:01:12
than what you're in jail for in the beginning. Yeah, and I here's the problem. I can't
01:01:18
really I can't come up with a motive for why he would come forward with this because he
01:01:24
does not get out of jail early Mhm. uh for for the crime he committed. Um he does end up being involved in a lawsuit
01:01:32
in a civil lawsuit. Right. Uh now, this is for his claims against the uh Larry King Lawrence E.
01:01:39
King uh who was involved with the Franklin Credit Union. Yeah. Now, this is this is
01:01:45
a much bigger story than what we can fit into the end of this episode, but but the gist of it is that the the Franklin
01:01:52
Credit Union Right. they get raided because there's information that comes out that there's all kinds of illegal
01:02:00
activity going on in and around the Franklin Credit Union. Yeah, money laundering and money
01:02:05
laundering, embezzlement, there's missing funds. Well, and then also what happens with uh credit unions or any
01:02:11
banks is that normally the larger entities have auditors. Uh one of my good friends, Jeff, uh which just text
01:02:20
me 2 minutes ago said he listens to the show now, which is pretty cool. But he travels the country auditing these
01:02:26
different banks. So, a lot of times in these audit situations they start finding all these crazy discrepancies.
01:02:33
Mhm. So, now they're figuring out, okay, well, we got all this money going to all
01:02:36
these places and based off of, you know, investigation that's you know, purely financial and are you
01:02:44
on the up and up in the financial institute it uncovers this holy hell of, you know,
01:02:52
to me it's just almost, you know, demonic almost, you know, as far as what was going on with these higher-ups.
01:02:59
Yeah, so Benassi and a few others claim that the Franklin Credit Union and Larry
01:03:05
King specifically and now let's let's call him Lawrence. Lawrence King so we don't confuse him with the with the
01:03:09
great Yeah, I like that. interviewer from CNN that everybody knows about. It's not the same guy.
01:03:15
Lawrence King. Yeah, so this is Lawrence King. Lawrence King very bad. Larry King
01:03:19
from CNN very good. Okay, so Lawrence King, he is involved in using this organization that's called
01:03:27
Boystown. And he's also using some other child organizations, but but basically Boystown is a place that uh
01:03:36
Boystown, it sounds like a boy band. You would send It does. You would send young young men, young boys to this
01:03:43
place and they would have activities for them to do and things like that. There's
01:03:46
probably summer camps involved. This could be for troubled youths. This could be for uh persons that maybe they don't
01:03:54
have the traditional family life at home. Kind of like a Big Brother program or something.
01:03:58
Exactly. And it sounds like uh Lawrence King and some of the people involved in his ring, they were using this as a way
01:04:06
to uh Don't even say it. We know what they were doing. They're bunch of weirdos.
01:04:13
Right. Right. So, they're they're having these parties um and they're taking these boys and these young uh girls And
01:04:20
they're taking advantage of them. to on trips and to places and giving them money and and
01:04:26
in return they're expecting the worst thing you can think of. Right. And yeah, so this so we know that this
01:04:34
kid is involved or at least he's making claims that he was involved in this scandal.
01:04:39
Which this scandal was pretty broken wide open. It's pretty factual that this scandal happened. Mhm. Uh so, it's not
01:04:46
just claims. I mean, I think the way you made it sound was that there these boys
01:04:50
are just claiming that this happened. There's there's tons of factual evidence that proves that this happened.
01:04:56
So, there is now some more weight to um Paul's uh Benassi's claims. Mhm. And what what takes place here, too, is
01:05:08
this is this is when he comes out that I was involved with the Johnny Gosch abduction and he says that the reason
01:05:14
for this is that this ring uh this child sex slave ring, they liked to uh abduct clean kids. Um that these
01:05:25
weren't kids that were involved in the program. And that Johnny was one of these kids and that on occasions they
01:05:32
would auction these these youths off to these perverted people whether it be people from the states or from overseas.
01:05:40
Um So, basically what Paul's saying is that since he's been to these parties, since he's been taken advantage of
01:05:46
before that he's just not you know, he's not worth much to um these individuals. And so, some of the
01:05:55
guys the higher-ups, guys with a little more money like we said, they put a price tag. I'll pay, you know, 10,000
01:06:03
bucks, 5,000 bucks, whatever the dollar amount is, it's for a new kid um that's never been taken advantage of
01:06:11
before. Now, Paul also claims that he can prove that that he was with Johnny Gosch um
01:06:19
and he says this because he can there's some identifiers on the young boy. Right. And one is a birthmark on
01:06:28
Johnny's chest and his chest area. Now, this we should point out though, you know, that some of the interviews
01:06:36
and things that you hear will say that this definitively proves that Paul Benassi knew Johnny Gosch that that that
01:06:42
his story is true. But we should point out that that birthmark was was heavily publicized. It was something that
01:06:49
everybody that knew anything about the case knew of this this um birthmark. Yeah, and it's weird. I mean,
01:06:56
let's just talk about this birthmark for for example because when we end up talking about the pictures that
01:07:02
may or may not be Johnny Gosch uh they talk about can you see this birthmark? It's kind of a discoloration.
01:07:09
Mhm. It's not like this very noticeable. It's just kind of a different coloration
01:07:15
It's not like a Gorbachev uh very Right. prominent Yeah, it's more of just kind of a
01:07:21
maybe a little bit of a darker um tone in in this one area around his shoulder shoulder and chest area. He
01:07:29
also says that there was a scar on Johnny's tongue um and Noreen confirms that he would have had a scar on his
01:07:36
tongue. Yeah, cuz he bit through his tongue when he was younger. Again, now that one wasn't publicized for any
01:07:43
knowledge that I have of that. Exactly. As well as a burn scar on Johnny's leg on one of his legs and Noreen confirms
01:07:51
that he would have had a burn scar as well and again, this one is not publicized either. Right. Um and the the
01:07:57
final thing that he says is that Johnny would stammer. His speech would stammer when uh he was upset or scared. Um he
01:08:05
also describes he he talks about the abductor. Uh he names him. He says his name was Emilio. Yeah.
01:08:11
Um and he would go on to say that Johnny would have been Johnny was purchased by
01:08:16
a guy that lived in Colorado. Right. Again, so what we have right now is we have Paul's claims.
01:08:25
Uh one I think backed up a little bit about the Lawrence King scandal. You know, there's some credibil-
01:08:32
credibility there. Mhm. Now, we got these weird marks, the the the birthmark which again maybe he knew about from the
01:08:41
publicity. We have the birthmark We got the the scar on his tongue from cutting through his tongue when Johnny Gosch was
01:08:47
younger. And then we got this burn mark on his leg. Now, um Noreen is saying, okay, well, he
01:08:54
there's some things that he should not know about. And then he talks about this whole
01:08:59
scenario. So, we got two, right? Mhm. He's batting, you know, pretty good right now.
01:09:06
And he starts talking about this connection about he's bought and he's they're going to take him to Colorado.
01:09:12
Now, again, they're kind of thinking, well, this guy is a little crazy. He's he's summoning
01:09:19
other personalities during interviews. Yeah, you had said earlier personality I like that. disorder, but but but
01:09:26
multiple personalities is what he was they thought he may have had. Yeah, and he would like summon some it's really
01:09:32
strange and I don't know how much I buy that or how much attention he was looking for again
01:09:37
the the you know, Paul did some bad things himself. You know, you know, to family
01:09:43
members and there's other claims or whatever. And now you have this whole ring that
01:09:48
he's possibly involved. Again, I think it's a situation where he was a victim and now they're making him victimize
01:09:56
people. You know, there this ring of people. So now he starts making these claims about
01:10:01
somebody hiring you know, they want hiring people to capture Johnny so that so he you know,
01:10:09
this this gentleman will be able to be the first one to take advantage of Johnny. And he's making claims in
01:10:15
Colorado. Well, when they go out and have Paul show him where this place was it's this ranch that was owned by like a
01:10:24
prison guard or somebody. Correct. And this is where it gets really strange for me. He talks about behind the back
01:10:31
underneath like the porch or something there's this opening. And he said that's where we'd
01:10:37
put the kids. Well not only is there a opening that this guy talks about this like secret doorway
01:10:44
there are these tunnels that are dug underneath this property. And then when you go into these tunnels
01:10:52
and you look up into these floorboards, you know, underneath this building Yeah.
01:10:57
there are child names you can talk into the mic. That's what he I like talking to you. Yeah, well
01:11:04
you got to talk in the mic so the beautiful people can hear your nasally drone. Yeah. So we're
01:11:09
in the we're in the underneath the house. There's the these tunnels or holes dug out and they almost look like
01:11:18
foxholes to me. You know, like what they they say in the in in war, you know, you're down in this foxhole.
01:11:24
Not a real fox but a war fox. is where you would I imagine that if if you thought the authorities were coming
01:11:30
or if there was somebody coming to the house that you would place a group of children under there so you could
01:11:35
conceal them and your secret wouldn't be out. But as you were saying that there's
01:11:41
there's names or or initials initial. Again, we don't know what it is. I mean, we all we can go based off of
01:11:51
is Paul's claims. And that's some crazy [ __ ] to just make up out of nowhere. Yeah, yeah, I want to
01:11:58
offer my opinion on his claims so badly, but I feel like we got so much more to get into before before we can do that.
01:12:06
Okay, keep going. Well, we should also mention the in 1992, a show that we've talked about a
01:12:11
lot on here is the famous show America's Most Wanted hosted by John Walsh. Now John Walsh actually knew Noreen and John
01:12:21
Gosh. They had met through the investigation of of finding Johnny and they along with other parents were
01:12:29
involved in the founding of the missing the the foundation for missing and exploited children. Right. Which we've
01:12:37
the True Crime Garage has made our made it our little donation and we'll do so again in the future. But John Walsh
01:12:43
features this case on his show. Now by the time that he's able to feature it in '92, the reason why they wanted to this
01:12:49
is the anniversary of the 10-year anniversary of the abduction of Johnny Gosh. Right. And they're able to present
01:12:58
Paul Bennewitz's story during the same episode because he's already come forward at this time. Now the strange
01:13:04
thing here, I mean as if Paul Bennewitz's story isn't couldn't get any stranger. He he has all these strange
01:13:11
claims and all these strange things that he's saying, but then he says And his actions, I mean the actions of
01:13:17
summonsing, you know, I'm going to summons a different personality is is kind of bizarre. Well, in the
01:13:24
personalities some of them they have names and ages and and things that they've experienced that other
01:13:29
personalities have not experienced, which is wild. But anyway he's talking about
01:13:36
not that I don't believe that that is a real thing that people probably do suffer from.
01:13:41
I'm not saying that I don't believe that that's real at all. I'm just saying just
01:13:46
kind of seems a hokey in the documentary and then you know, diving into it more and seeing other
01:13:52
interviews with Paul it seems a little hokey when he's doing it. If you have multiple personalities have each one of
01:13:58
them go to iTunes and give us a five-star review. But Paul Bennewitz he's telling his
01:14:04
story and he's saying that not only that are there kids that are in this program
01:14:08
in the sex slave ring Right. But some of them they brand them and there's a specific brand and it looks
01:14:15
like a like a symbol like an X with maybe you know, some kind of U or anchor type shape underneath the X
01:14:23
and he he describes this. But this the thing that I can't get over here Captain is that after after the story
01:14:32
comes out on America's Most Wanted, you know, you know these kind of shows. They
01:14:35
they show you a phone number at the end and if you have any information, you can
01:14:39
call this number and you will be you can be kept anonymous and Yeah. they're hoping to get information about the
01:14:45
disappearance of Johnny Gosh. What ends up happening is they get phone calls from kids and young adults that are
01:14:51
saying yeah, I was in that program. Yeah, I was I was I was trapped. These people did
01:14:57
terrible things to me and I have the branding on my arm or leg. Right, yeah, yeah. And and here's what's
01:15:03
interesting to me. So when we think about Paul, again, not much motive. There's nothing he's
01:15:09
not going to get much out of just lying to the authorities about some random kid in a different town going
01:15:17
missing. He has not much to gain other than maybe some clarity and some some weight lifted off of him. And maybe he
01:15:26
wants to change around his life. Right? So first of all, he talks about the abduction. He talks about these
01:15:32
characteristics. That all seems legit. He talks about this stuff with Lawrence King. That all seems to check out. He
01:15:38
talks about the guy that hired the guy Emilio Emilio. Emilio to take him to Colorado. They take they take Paul to
01:15:48
Colorado and guess what he showed you at this underground place where there's people kids names or initials carved in
01:15:55
the walls and now he starts telling you about this branding that sounds even stranger. What is he talking about? He
01:16:02
said there's this ring and all these kids come forward. Again, another a factual thing that he he says
01:16:10
something and then there's proof to back it up. Do I believe Paul Bennewitz's claims? I
01:16:17
believe some of them and like you said there's he he he states something and then boom, there's there's something
01:16:23
that backs it up. And this happens time and time again. There where we don't have proof to back something up is when
01:16:31
he discusses the abduction of Johnny Gosh. There is a situation where you know, the
01:16:37
the the police from Des Moines, they go to Omaha, Nebraska and they interview um
01:16:46
Paul Bennewitz's family, his siblings and and they ask him to they want to figure out where his whereabouts were at
01:16:52
the time of Johnny's disappearance. Now all of his family members say that he was he was there in Nebraska. Well,
01:16:59
yeah, mainly the his siblings. Yeah, and there's a couple things we should point
01:17:04
out here. It's not a terrible stretch to believe that somebody could have been in
01:17:08
Nebraska and Iowa in the same day. That is certainly possible. The other thing is the police did
01:17:16
interview his siblings about 10 years after the fact. So that's pretty hard to remember where
01:17:23
somebody was on a specific day 10 years earlier. So that you know, you can give Paul the benefit of the doubt
01:17:31
there. But where where I have the problem with the Johnny Gosh portion of his story Yeah. is
01:17:39
there's nothing that leads anywhere. There's no Emilio. There's no person to go to and there's no car. There's
01:17:46
there's nothing he can point to other than the fact that he other than him saying I was in the back of this vehicle
01:17:51
and my job was to chloroform the kid and then we put the kid into a van. And there's there's several issues I have
01:17:59
with that. One it's been reported by multiple eyewitnesses. This is a two-door car. This isn't a four-door
01:18:05
car. That presents some obstacle with with his story. The other thing is he you can't lead us to Emilio. You can't
01:18:13
tell us who Emilio is. Is Emilio a code name? Is it is the is the guy's real name? I mean, somebody said he could
01:18:20
have been Latin. Said he had slurred speech. Maybe didn't have slurred speech. It was just an
01:18:24
accent or Yeah, but don't you think the lawyer John Rossi would would know that it was
01:18:31
some kind of accent? You know, you'd think he would know. Possibly. I could yeah. I could agree
01:18:37
with that. But again, what I'm getting at here Captain is there's no he can't lead us to the vehicle. He can't lead us
01:18:42
to Emilio. Yeah, but he was also a kid at the time. Yeah, he would have been 15 16 years
01:18:47
old, yeah. Yeah, but that's a freaking kid and 10 years later, I mean you know, the
01:18:52
difference between the Captain when he was 15 and 25 was a huge difference. But what I'm what I'm getting at here and
01:18:58
the other thing the other problem I have with some of the Paul Bennewitz story is
01:19:02
that his lawyer says that he spoke and this is when the lawyer finds out about Paul's multiple personalities. Right. He
01:19:10
says, you know, I spoke to this psychiatrist that was leaving psychologist psychiatrist, whichever one
01:19:17
it is. Um we'll just say both so I'm covered either way. Too many drinks. But he speaks to to
01:19:24
this gentleman who's leaving the the jail where Paul Bennewitz is telling these stories.
01:19:29
Mhm. And he says to him, you know, is he telling you all these wild stories and and the the man says, yes.
01:19:36
However, you know, these aren't lies. He's he's incapable of lying. He's a multiple personality and he, rather than
01:19:43
lying, he's going to switch to a personality that was there, that experienced that situation and he's
01:19:50
going to tell you the story. Well, regardless of how many personalities are housed in one body at a time, I can tell
01:19:59
you from personal experience that every day I'm surrounded by multiple personalities and it just so happens
01:20:04
that it's only one per person, but I guarantee you if I lined up 10 of those people, there's a liar in one of the
01:20:11
of that group. Yeah, I understand that. But but the the thing is the reason why he is going into these
01:20:18
multiple personalities is to deal with trauma. Mhm. You know, because of the trauma, because of this ring that he was
01:20:25
involved in and because he was a victim of Lawrence King and and others. That's why he's going into these
01:20:32
multiple personalities. It's a way as a defense mechanism. This is This is what I'm guessing. I haven't really read up
01:20:38
on it. That's what I'm guessing. So, one, I mean, yes, he he's victimized people, but him himself is
01:20:47
Paul himself is a victim. Okay. So, we need to treat him as such and and and treat him with some gentle
01:20:55
kindness, right, for the stuff that was done wrong to him. Here's the thing, though.
01:21:01
He he mentions scars that weren't publicized. Noreen believes him. That's I I feel strong about that. Also,
01:21:11
there's time and time again what he is saying that sounds so crazy gets backed up. So, you're saying, okay,
01:21:20
five things he says gets backed up, but this one he's lying about? Okay, then tell me how do you how did he know about
01:21:27
these scars? Well, I would like to witness the conversation where those scars are discussed. Was Was he led? Was
01:21:34
Was the Was the discussion led in a way that he could could pick up on this? Here's the thing I do want to point out.
01:21:41
I firmly believe that Paul Bennewitz is a victim of some sort. I truly believe that something terrible happened to him
01:21:48
when he was a young when he was young and I believe I don't know much about multiple personalities and I'm not going
01:21:56
to pretend to. What I can see on his face and in his demeanor, he clearly to me shows signs of of PTSD where where he
01:22:06
has he has suffered some form of trauma and it's probably in the form of sex sexual abuse
01:22:12
at the hands of adults and probably terrorized and I believe that he he is a victim and he he has trauma. Um I I
01:22:20
don't know. I just wonder if if coming up with you asked for a motive on bringing Johnny Gosch into this whole
01:22:26
discussion by Paul Bennewitz and I just wonder is was he telling this story about Lawrence
01:22:32
C. King Lawrence E. King over and over again and nobody's believing him? Was he telling this story about this child sex
01:22:38
ring and nobody wanted to hear it and then all of a sudden I bring up Johnny Gosch and oh, how the ears have opened.
01:22:45
Oh, how the microphones have swarmed to me Right. and now I have a platform to discuss what's really going on Right.
01:22:53
and I just lured you in. Well, again, I mean, I think that I think if you want to know the truth,
01:22:58
then you have to go to the source of when he's talking about these scars and how he knows these scars how how he
01:23:04
knows this information about the scars. You know, because because the thing too is that you know, when I first heard
01:23:10
this, I thought, well, what if I mean look, if this kid is involved and you know, he's just kind of used goods. I
01:23:17
mean, that's what he said. Like they just That's his own words, you're They they they're not really interested in me
01:23:22
because I've already been taken advantage of and that wasn't the thrill. There's bigger money in taking advantage
01:23:28
of these these kids for you know, for the first time. It It's [ __ ] disgusting, okay, first
01:23:34
of all. But um What if Your French is not very good, so I pardon it. It's [ __ ] it. I mean,
01:23:42
when you're talking about this this stuff is disgusting, you know, and this and these to me are the closest
01:23:49
thing that we have on this earth to demons. This is it to me um you know, whether you believe in
01:23:57
heaven or hell and God and all that stuff, to me this is a satanic action. I mean, um this this that's a demon action
01:24:06
uh to to abuse kids like that and uh you know, I'm not you know, a you know, proponent for the death
01:24:13
penalty, but you know, I I would like to, you know, take a baseball bat to a lot of these guys' heads, you know.
01:24:19
Uh but anyways, maybe he just got confused and they actually abducted a different kid,
01:24:26
you know, but again, the scars and Noreen saying, now again, this is a mother, is she just hearing stuff that
01:24:35
she wants to hear and making connections where there aren't connections? I don't
01:24:40
know. The other strange thing, though, to me, Captain, in this whole investigation is
01:24:45
that the police that and I mean specifically the Des Moines, Iowa police that were involved in the
01:24:52
uh disappearance of of Johnny Gosch um involved in the investigation. I I don't even know if
01:24:59
we can call it an investigation on their end. Didn't seem like they were putting
01:25:03
much effort into it at the time. No, for I mean, look, a couple hours in, they're
01:25:07
they're telling the community that this kid's a runaway. But they No freaking evidence to back that up.
01:25:13
Nine or 10 years later, whatever. I don't care how long it is. They never at any point they go and interview Paul
01:25:20
Bennewitz's siblings and determine by their recollection that that he could not have been in the area of of Johnny
01:25:27
Gosch at the time of the disappearance. However, they never speak to Paul Bennewitz. Right. I I can't wrap my head
01:25:34
around that thing, man. Why wouldn't you talk to this guy? Even if he's completely wrong. You know, in in a lot
01:25:40
of murder cases and a lot of missing persons cases, there will be some wacko that walks off of the street into the
01:25:46
police department, says, "Hello, my name is Bloogie the Bloogie and I have information about this thing." Or yeah,
01:25:52
or I mean, or look at the JonBenét Ramsey case. I mean, you got a guy overseas claiming he did it. And when
01:25:59
police are doing their job and detectives are working hard to try to solve a case, they might know that a
01:26:04
person is batshit crazy, but they will sit down and talk to them anyway. Why? Because you never know what they are
01:26:11
going to say. You never know. Something in there could be factual. Something there could be a clue in there
01:26:18
somewhere. Something to follow up on. And again, we just see little to no effort on the part of the police to look
01:26:28
into the disappearance of a young boy, of a 12-year-old dude that's out delivering newspapers, that was a part
01:26:35
of his community, that had that grew and he grew up in a nice area. Yeah. We're not talking about, you know, time and
01:26:40
time again we hear about some poor young African-American boy that got handed a raw deal. You know,
01:26:47
this that's not the case here. This is a kid in a nice neighborhood that you expect to get every break, right? And
01:26:53
they didn't even do they didn't even do it there um for whatever reason. Well, I
01:26:57
think some of that comes into play with this corrupt police chief, you know, and
01:27:01
there's a lot more stuff that comes out about him and we can talk about that in the part two.
01:27:06
But that becomes like a black eye, a little stain on your department. And so maybe it was just, you know, and and
01:27:12
plus, I mean, you have this uh uh mother doing her due diligence, you know, and and she's put in the time and
01:27:19
the effort. Not only that, but now Noreen and and Big John are are are working overtime, working extra jobs.
01:27:26
They're paying for a private investigator and there was some conflict um between
01:27:32
the police chief and the Gosch family about that. So, I mean, some of it I think is just, you know, uh people need
01:27:39
to take a good slice of humble pie, you know, sometimes and remember what your damn job is. That's serve and protect.
01:27:47
You know, that's your job. Mhm. You know, sometimes you just, you know, rise above, be better. Like I said last week,
01:27:53
be be more human. You know, and that and I just think that they they dropped the ball multiple
01:27:58
times in this case. I mean, from the get-go. You don't tell the community that he's a runaway. Assume the worst
01:28:06
and then and then go searching and lift up every rock, do everything you can cuz
01:28:12
it's a it's a freaking child. Give him a chance. Okay, we have got to cover this in
01:28:17
another show because this is just the tip of the iceberg here. There's so much more to talk about. There's so many
01:28:23
different elements to this case. There's some other weird, strange, wacky things.
01:28:28
Um some of them true, some of them may not be true, but there's so much more to discuss regarding the disappearance of
01:28:34
Johnny Gosch, the child sex ring, uh the Gosch family, the police department. It
01:28:40
goes on and on and on. I I'm just going to say it in part one and I'll say it again in part two. A lot
01:28:44
of the stuff that we're going to bring up, we're bringing it up, you know, as far as knowledge and information. Mhm.
01:28:50
And then obviously there's some entertainment value of all that. That the lot of the stuff that we're bringing
01:28:55
up, it's not necessarily because we believe in it. You know, we're just we're going to but we're going to
01:29:00
present as many things as we can. Yeah. It It should all be reported. And did you do your job this week? Do we have
01:29:06
any recommended reading? I did my job, my friend. Do your job. This week we are recommending the
01:29:13
Franklin Cover-Up. This is a story about child abuse, Satanism, and murder in Nebraska. And this is by John DeCamp.
01:29:20
John DeCamp, who is that? That is the attorney that worked with Paul Bonacci and they interviewed him and he This was
01:29:27
his way of getting the story out to the masses. So, if you want to learn more about the Franklin cover-up, the
01:29:33
Franklin Credit Union, and Lawrence King, and all that strange goings-on there. It's the Franklin cover-up, child
01:29:40
abuse, Satanism, and murder in Nebraska by John DeCamp. You can pick that up by going to our website,
01:29:46
truecrimegarage.com. Click on the recommended page and we have our recommended books there. And
01:29:52
thank you guys so much for listening. Thanks so much for telling a friend. The growth of this show has been amazing.
01:29:57
Hopefully, we can get it to a, you know, multiple shows a week pretty soon cuz we love you crazy freaks.
01:30:04
And actually, I think we're going to do two shows in the garage next week, right? Yeah, well, I wasn't going to
01:30:08
tell them about the Halloween bonus. you back here next week for dose shows in the garage. And until next time, be
01:30:15
good, be kind, and don't litter. Don't litter on your dig.