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Welcome to True Crime Garage. Wherever you are, whatever you are doing, thanks for listening. I'm your host Nick and
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with me as always is a man that often wonders why the word abbreviated is so long. He is the Captain.
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Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to be seen and it's good to see you. Thanks for listening. Thanks for
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telling a friend. Today we are drinking Good Life by Billsburg Brewery Garage Grade four out
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of five bottle caps. This is an IPA and it's got everything you would want and expect from a good IPA. And for you
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travelers, Billsburg is in the heart of Williamsburg surrounded in history and all that Jamestown stuff located just
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off of the Colonial Parkway. And this week's beer was brought to us by First up a big thank you to Seal from where?
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Parts Unknown. Seal recommended some beers, Zombie Dust and 100 Million Angels Singing, which I'm positive we
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have featured that one before, but thank you for the suggestions. And a big shout out to Stephanie from
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Shy-Town. Next to cheers to Bridget in Audubon, Pennsylvania. A big shout out to Valerie and John in
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Minneapolis. Next up a big cheers to Sophie and a tiny little cheers to baby Daisy.
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And a big shout out to baby Jesus. And last but not least a shout to Martha in parts unknown. Crazy how these things
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come full circle. And if you'd like to be in the inner circle, all it takes is a round or two of some good beers and
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you can do that. You can buy us a round for next week's show by going to truecrimegarage.com
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and click on the donate button. finally here, the be good, be kind, don't litter t-shirts. They're on
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store page. All right, horse people gather around, grab a chair, grab a beer. I think they're called centaurs.
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Let's talk some true crime. 18-year-old Anna Marie Phelps had recently moved in with her boyfriend
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Clinton Lower in Virginia Beach. Anna Marie had frosted blonde hair and a penchant for blue eyeliner. She loved
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the band Poison. Now, don't get it twisted, sister, but that's not the only crime
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of this episode. Well, she had returned home to Amelia. This is located southwest of Richmond to visit her
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family for the Labor Day holiday weekend. She was accompanied by Daniel Lower. Uh this is Clinton's brother.
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They were driving back to Virginia Beach together. Daniel was planning to move in
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with his brother and Anna Maria to help them with their rent and to live near the beach. Apparently, they both had
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jobs, this couple, but they I believe they made minimum wage at the time. So, paying the rent was a struggle and the
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brother wanted to live near the beach. It's kind of a win-win for all involved. So,
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Daniel had packed up his car with all of his things. They said goodbye to Anna Maria's family who had warned them, just
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before the two pulled off, to lock their car doors and to drive safely. Now, they left about 11:15 p.m.
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on Labor Day, Monday, September 4th, 1989. This is a 2-hour drive east to Virginia Beach.
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Anna Maria and Daniel never showed up at their apartment in Virginia Beach. Kent,
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the brother, called his mom to tell her that they hadn't showed up as expected and she filed the missing person's
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report. Around 5:30 p.m. the next day, a state trooper spotted Daniel's gold 1972
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Chevy Nova in the westbound rest stop along I-64 in New Kent. Which is odd because they're heading east. Yes. I-64
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is a 1,000-mi major highway running between Missouri and Virginia. This rest stop between
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Richmond and Williamsburg is in the wrong direction. The couple should have been driving east. The rest stop is 30
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mi northwest of the Colonial Parkway. This rest stop had a reputation at the time as a meeting spot for drug deals
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and hookups. The abandoned car was on the lane leading onto the highway from the rest
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stop. So, picture this. The car is basically half on, half off of the road. It's almost blocking traffic.
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The trooper was about to have it towed from the rest stop when a radio check linked the car to a couple that was
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reported missing earlier that day. This being the two that we've already discussed. Now, Anna Maria's purse and
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clothing were found inside the vehicle, as was all of Daniel's stuff. But, Anna Anna Maria's wallet was
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missing, as was a blanket of Daniels. A feathered marijuana roach clip was hanging on the partially open driver's
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side window. Yeah, it was like clipped onto the window. Yeah, it was later identified as belonging to Anna Maria.
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The key was still in the ignition. One door was locked, the other wasn't. The car had plenty of gas. I believe it was
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reported that it had 3/4 of a tank of gas, full tank of gas. And seemed to be working just fine. So,
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there was no reason for them to abandon the vehicle. Some reports say that the glove
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compartment was open. There was no evidence of a struggle. The car just seemed to have been left there for
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whatever reason. There were sightings of the pair. And this took place both east and west
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bound of where the two where the vehicle was found. Mhm. But these sightings led nowhere.
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Now, I heard an investigator interviewed and he stated, "Look, we had we did have a
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lot of people say that they saw them after we found the vehicle. The problem with this was he said,
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"Look, this area at the time, there was a lot of partying going on. There would have been a lot of kids their age
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in this area traveling to or from Virginia Beach." Right. So, these eyewitnesses could have
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saw a different set of people. And And according to this investigator, he says, "Look, they To me, they look
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like just any other a lot." Well, he says, "Look, they look to me just like any other kids of that age at that
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time." He's He goes, "I understand that they You could easily mistake anybody for being these two."
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Now, they set up a a search. Okay, police dogs were unable to pick up a scent of either of the missing
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individuals. And they searched the surrounding areas. This turned up nothing. Almost immediately investigators began
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drawing comparisons to the disappearance of Keith and Sandy 18 months earlier and
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35 miles to the south. About a month after Lauer and Phelps went missing, Larry McCann, a profiler
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and special agent with the State Police Bureau of Investigation, told reporters there was, quote, a very
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good chance that the recent cases were related. A story in the Daily Press in October of 1989 mentioned each of the
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four cases that are now known collectively as the Colonial Parkway murders. But now their their bodies are
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going to be found. Unlike the last couple. Well, the issue here, Captain, is it's not until October
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19th. This is when the bodies are found by hunters walking along an old secluded
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logging road found the two sets of human skeletal remains in a wooded area. This
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is about a quarter mile off of Courthouse Road, barely a mile north of the exit off of I-64.
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The bodies lay side by side and they were covered by a blanket later identified as the one that was missing
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from the car. Anna Maria's locket, uh, necklace was lying on the trail. Whether she had left it there as some
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kind of signal, some kind of, you know, bread crumb, or the killer had dumped it there, we
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don't know. The interesting thing here though is, Captain, while the locket was found on the trail,
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the necklace itself was was never found. And because there was so much time that passed, their
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bodies are going to be pretty badly decomposed. Yeah, we're looking at a period of,
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what, 45 days? So, these remains were found about a mile from the rest area where the car was
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found. State Police sent four crime scene techs and two medical examiners to this scene.
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It was pouring rain all day long, so the the local fire department pitched in and
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helped out. They put up a canopy above the bones, and they brought in a generator to power electric lights used
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in the search. It was very muddy that day. One trooper slipped in a hole and and sank up to his knees, and the crime
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scene specialist painstakingly dug and sifted through it until they found everything that they believed was left
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there, including the victim's finger nails. They used several kinds of metal detectors that day and chemicals to
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detect blood stains on the bushes. Signs were found to suggest that the murder site might have been at the
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intersection of the logging road and the dirt lane. Meaning that where they found the car is
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not where they were killed. More likely where the bodies were found is very close to where it's believed that they
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had been killed. The victim's car had weeds up underneath of it that matched those
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at the believed murder scene. Investigators concluded that the killer must have driven it to the dump. I'm
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sorry, driven it to dump the bodies. Right. And then had parked it in the rest area going the wrong direction from
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where the two victims were heading. Strangely, Anna Maria was found wearing Dennis Daniel's socks and shoes.
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And so, this is very weird, right? They're They're partially They're partially stripped, but she's wearing his socks
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and shoes. Somebody is One investigator had always wondered that several of the victims being found without their shoes
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on, if that was some kind of form of control. You know, that that one of the not only
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having them partially undressed or all the way undressed, but have them remove their
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shoes and maybe their shoes first. That way if they take off running, it can be very uncomfortable to run out in these
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areas with no shoes on. You might be You might be slowed in your attempt to escape.
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Mhm. The killer then used Daniel's blanket to cover the bodies. From my understanding, the bodies were
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covered up to the neck area. Uh the bodies were left outside for like 6 weeks, badly decomposed as you had
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said. They were identified through dental records. It took about 2 days for this process. And in the course of those
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2 days, law enforcement, they were kind enough to reach out to both families. And they
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said, "Look, we think that this is who we found. We've already found the vehicle.
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And we think that we found your two loved ones. We wanted you to hear it from us first, but we cannot confirm
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that until the dental records come back." They didn't want the family to hear this on the news and not from them.
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Yeah. The bodies were sent to the Smithsonian Institution National Museum for Natural
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History in Washington, D.C. So, forensic anthropologist could look for hints at the cause of death.
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The best they could do was to identify a nick in one of Anna Marie's finger bones, potentially a defensive wound
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from from a knife attack. Mhm. Once the bodies were recovered, it was undeniable
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in the minds of many people that Virginia had a serial killer on the loose. The FBI and the state police held
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a joint press conference in July of 1990 declaring that there was a possibility that the cases were all
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connected, all related, and asking the public for help. Now, the cases, Captain,
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were all different, obviously. But, there are they are similar enough that there are some patterns and connections
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between them. So, let's talk about the similarities and differences in these murders.
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So, first we have all four were couples or at least appeared to be couples. We know that Becky and Kathy were dating.
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We don't know whether they were targeted because they were a same-sex couple or not, but it is possible that the killer
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didn't realize that until he had already begun his attack. It was very dark along
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the parkway at night. Kathy and Becky were inside a dark car presumably. The killer looking to prey on couples may
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have assumed that they were in fact man and woman. Becky's hair at the time was on the
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shorter side. So, perhaps the extreme viciousness of this attack was because the killer was angry that
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they were two women when when he had been looking for a guy and a girl. Several people close to the victims
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strongly suspect that David and Robin were hooking up that night. This is the second couple. Yeah. And we
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know that according to some reports out there that Robin had had sex recently before she was found.
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And then we have Keith and Sandy who were on a first date if you want to call it that. And finally, we have Daniel and
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Anna Maria who were driving together to Virginia Beach. They weren't a couple, but you know, there's much speculation
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that perhaps they had stopped along the parkway or stopped at some point maybe having something to do with the roach
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clip that was later found. And so, we have a situation here where all four situations would appear to be couples.
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Yes. Now, the first couple we're going to find them inside the car. Second couple we find outside the car. Third
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couple we do not find at all. Fourth couple we find roughly about 6 weeks later and
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a distance away from uh the car that we find. Another similarity, all of these cases
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involved cars. Um many of the cars were left with open doors and or open windows and some
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reported to have had the glove boxes opened. Right, which again, I I I think this is a
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I'm going to play both sides of the fence here. Possibly because the first murder being
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so sloppy and that that they probably had reports saying that this possibly could be law
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enforcement, it possibly could be a park ranger, this possibly could be somebody
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pretending to be. Mhm. That could be something that the killer uses to set them up the second couple, the third
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couple, and the fourth couple because that individual is moving the car. Mhm. And so if that individual's moving the
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car, he's the one that's leaving the door open, he's possibly the one that is rolling down the window, he's the one
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that's possibly uh opening up the glove box, he's the one that's possibly taking
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uh a wallet or something and putting it on the dash to make it look like this this person that's stalking
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these individuals is law enforcement. Right, if we want to go as so far to believe that he's sophisticated enough
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to move the vehicle and stage the vehicle, then we should think that he's sophisticated enough to stage these
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other things at the crime scene at the vehicle. Well, and the reason why I have a gut
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feeling that those are staged because if you are posing as a law enforcement, if
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you are posing as a park ranger or something, that is your way to get these people to
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uh your victims to drop their guard. Right. So, if you're set You know what I mean? Like so if you're using that to
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get people to drop their guard, then don't you think when you move the car, you'd roll up the window, shut the
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glove box, put their wallet somewhere else. Well, yeah, because you don't want law enforcement warning future potential
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victims Mhm. of this approach. That hey, look out for somebody pretending to be law enforcement pulling people over or
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approaching vehicles. The third similarity that we should note here is none of the cases involved any
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signs of a struggle and the cars were largely undisturbed with the exception of the first attack.
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The exception to this is the other situation in the first attack of Kathy having hair in her hand,
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which Mhm. I think we should assume to be the perpetrators as the FBI has not said that it was Becky's or her own
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hair. So, this means that the killer somehow controlled the victims enough to get
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them out of their cars without actually attacking them inside of the vehicles. Mhm.
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In three of the crimes, the victims clothing items were found inside the cars. Kathy and Becky were found to be
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fully clothed. First couple. But the rest were either only partially clothed or in the case of Keith and Sandy, we
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don't we don't know. We don't, right. But but we do have pieces of their clothing found in the
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car, quite a bit of pieces of clothing. So, we could assume that they're only partially clothed wherever they went.
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And I wonder because with the fourth couple and not being able to find them for 6
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weeks, I wonder if I wonder if the third couple, the killer buried maybe in a shallow grave
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and with the search, we've never found them and so therefore, that's why he didn't possibly bury the fourth
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couple and just left them out covered in with a blanket. My other question would be how far from
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the water are they? Because we saw with the second attack, it it looks to me, my speculation is
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with the second attack, that the attempt was to throw the bodies in the water and
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for whatever reason they washed ashore. And in the third attack, we have no bodies. I wonder if the killer was
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successful in placing them in the water and the tides took them away. Mhm. So, another similarity, all of the
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crimes happened within 60 miles of one another. Ragged Island and the I-64 rest stop are each about 30 miles away in
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different directions from the central murders on the Colonial Parkway. Mhm. The crimes all took place on a weekend
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and two of them took place on a holiday weekend. Three of the crimes were in September or October and one of them was
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in April. So, all of them took place in either fall or spring, none at winter or
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summer and all took place at night time. Yeah, and you then it makes you wonder is this um killer
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does he have some kind of job that they get holiday time? Well, and all of the victims were young.
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We should consider that as well. Kathy being the oldest at 27 years of age. Now,
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when I was listing out the similarities in the differences between the crimes. Okay, so that has us listed at seven
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obvious similarities in these crimes in my opinion. There was one that that is tricky.
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There is one that doesn't really end up on either list as being a similarity or a difference. And that is the one that
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is that reported so often in this crime that I think we should take a look at take a new look at it for a second.
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Because one that most people would consider to be a similarity amongst all four of
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these crimes is that the general conception is that there's no MO. There's no uh motive. I'm sorry, not
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MO. There's no motive in these crimes. Mhm. Being that there's no signs of sexual assault and there's no signs of
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robbery. Well, let's go back on that real quick because the first couple we know were lesbians. But there was no
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sexual assault there. The second couple we do know that Robin Edwards had sex with somebody
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before her murder. Mhm. The third couple Cassandra's never found. So, we don't know if there was sexual
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assault attempted or not. And then the fourth couple we got such bad decomposition that we
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can't even tell if if there was a sexual assault or not. So, we can't rule that out as a possible
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motive. No, we absolutely can't. And that's why I don't think you can put that as a
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similarity saying that there's no obvious motive in either one of these situations. When you do a little further
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digging here let's talk about the um the case of Robin and David. Okay. The reports are
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that we know what the reports usually says, we know that Robin had sex shortly before she was killed. And when they say
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shortly, who knows exactly what that means. Okay, as far as timeline goes. Let's just say that means within a few
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hours. Well, I'm I don't even need to speculate because one thing that I found was we have an investigator. Now, he's
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going off of memory, but he worked that case. And going off of memory, when asked
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about the situation of Robin having had sex beforehand and wondering if that was
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with David or could it be possibly that she was raped, he said in this interview
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you know, and and take him keep this in mind. This is hearsay. This is him recalling this
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maybe 25 years after the case, after he investigated it. But, he says due to his
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regulation recollection, they were working under the assumption that Robin was raped and potentially
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sodomized as well. Mhm. So, that makes that creates one big giant motive in that particular case.
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Then, we have another situation with Anna Maria and Daniel. This is the fourth couple. Correct. And
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one thing that is often not reported in this situation is Daniel had gotten paid about $800 over the
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course of that weekend. It's believed that when they took off for that trip back to that apartment, that he had the
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$800 cash on him. This was never recovered from the vehicle or from his belongings. Mhm. So, we have a potential
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that there might have been motive for robbery in this particular case. Yeah, or it's just such an amount that the
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killer just "I'm here, might as well take it." Now, for the differences, the most obvious is
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the MO being different in each case. We have a strangulation, a throat cutting. This is the Becky and Kathy case.
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First couple. A shooting with the David and Robin. Second couple. A suspected stabbing in Anna Maria and
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Daniel. That's the fourth couple. And an unknown disappearance of Keith and Sandy. Mhm.
00:24:35
Another Go ahead. Well, and I kind of wondered this because in the second couple, Robin, she's only
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14. So, I wonder if the motive, if it was sexual base sexually based at the first
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couple, he he goes "Okay, here's this lesbian couple. Maybe there was Now, this possibly could be the first
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attack. So, we have a situation where somebody gets a handful of hair. And was that enough, you know, of a
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deterrent Mhm. to stop the sexual assault. Therefore, then we're saying that that's
00:25:15
not the motive, well, because they weren't sexually assaulted. But then we have the situation with the
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second couple with Robin and her being 14 and being young and you know, I'm just going to put that put
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it out there. I know it sounds a little sick, but maybe that's not what Maybe this killer sees David and goes,
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20-year-old ban. And then when he gets to the car, he sees Robin and she's young. And that's not
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the type of individual, not the type of sexual assault that he want he doesn't want to
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sexually assault a 14-year-old. He does, but that's not his type, right? Mhm. And then you have the situation with the
00:26:01
third couple. You you keep on calling her Sandy, right? Right. Her full name is Cassandra. And her name was Cassandra.
00:26:10
Um with Sandy, you have she was a model. Mhm. And she was a gymnast, I believe. Uh she
00:26:19
taught gymnastics, yes. Is it possible that after the second couple, he finds this very attractive woman and
00:26:29
he wants to spend more time with her and he brings her somewhere else. Right. why we never found um
00:26:36
her or Richard. Another difference, another possible difference, is the actual locations. And now, Captain, you
00:26:43
might say this is weird, you kind of included a similar thing on both of your list, both sides of your list, but I
00:26:49
think one could argue it either way. While all the crimes happened within a 60-miles within 60-miles of one another,
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you could argue that it's similar location. However, you could make the argument that look, two of them two of
00:27:04
the cars were found on the Parkway, one is found on I-64 and the other on Ragged
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Island. Where they're all within 60-miles of one another, but could be considered much different locations.
00:27:16
But 60-miles is not a huge radius for a killer to stalk the prey. All right, we're back. Cheers,
00:27:38
everybody. I'm just excited that I'm not a Captain Soup Nose. Well, the Colonial Parkway murders fell
00:27:46
under different law enforcement jurisdictions. To this day, the families of these victims cite the lack of
00:27:52
communication and cooperation among the various departments investigating. So, this has been seen as a major stumbling
00:28:00
block. It's It's tough when it's separate entities investigating, this being federal, state, and local. Mhm.
00:28:08
The families were so dissatisfied with the handling of the cases that in in 1989,
00:28:14
a few of them banded together along with families of victims in other unsolved murders in the area to obtain 12,000
00:28:23
signatures to require law enforcement to to renew the investigations into the murders on the Parkway and in the
00:28:31
Tidewater, Virginia region. They formed a group called FACT, Family and Friends Against Crime Today.
00:28:41
This was to push law enforcement to work together to find out what had happened to their loved ones.
00:28:47
The members went to the media and wrote to congressmen and senators complaining that the police weren't taking seriously
00:28:54
the possibility that all of the crimes were linked. The FBI said in 1990 that its agents had spent thousands of hours
00:29:02
trying to solve the two federal cases that they were working and had met frequently with local law enforcement
00:29:09
agencies to discuss the cases. Yeah. These cases are difficult though too because they they seem like very random
00:29:18
acts, four random acts of murder. That's why I wanted to take the time and go through the similarities and the
00:29:25
differences between the cases because I think it's it's a weird set of circumstances
00:29:31
that in my opinion you have enough things pointing that they are connected, that there are enough similarities, that
00:29:38
there is a pattern, that they are connected, but equally you have enough things pointing out that they could be
00:29:45
completely unrelated to one another. Yeah, and you kind of see this with Long Island serial killer. A lot of
00:29:51
people think that some are connected and some are not and that possibly there's two killers. So, is
00:29:57
is that a situation that we might have here? Well, and I don't think we should come down too hard on law enforcement
00:30:03
regarding these cases that we've discussed because one thing that I found throughout this was the the lack of
00:30:10
consensus about whether the four crimes were related at all and this coming from
00:30:15
both investigators and the families of these victims as well. Where do you stand on the possibility of
00:30:23
these being connected? Ooh, that that's a complicated answer, my friend. I I think
00:30:30
I I'd like to this is what I found and usually when I have a hard time coming up with answers on my own, I like to
00:30:36
just defer to people closer to the case and what I found in this situation is that you have depending on who you talk
00:30:45
to whether it be law enforcement or family members of the victims you have some people that think that
00:30:50
just one case is different than the other or that you know some of the cases are connected and others are not like
00:30:58
for example the David and Robin case local authorities are One couple two Yes Okay Local authorities are convinced
00:31:08
that the pair was executed by someone they know Mhm So and then other people think that the three cases in which
00:31:17
involved the heterosexual couples that they are all linked but Cathy and Becky's the first couple the lesbian
00:31:24
couple that their violent killing seemed more personable so it's not you know that they possibly were targeted and are
00:31:30
not linked to the other cases Right because they their claim is that normally when
00:31:36
somebody tries to burn the body that's normally a sign that they knew the individual
00:31:41
Here's the other thing and this is really interesting and this thought seems to be shared by families and law
00:31:48
enforcement they note that several of the victims should have been nowhere near the place where they were found
00:31:56
Okay I think that's important with the exception of the first couple it's believed that the other three cases
00:32:03
that those people would have been nowhere near where they were eventually found so some law enforcement officials
00:32:09
believe that maybe the parkway and rest stops are just dumping grounds for different killers and that there's
00:32:16
actually no connection at all The FBI in charge an FBI agent in charge of the case in
00:32:23
the late 80s and early 90s his name's Robert Meadows said the problem was that none of them
00:32:30
knew what to look for he stated quote if you think about it which is worse a serial killer or four separate killers.
00:32:39
Sorry, I said serial. She thought I said Like my whole story went away. Damn, I love that quote, too. Robert
00:32:48
Meadows said the problem was that none of them were sure what to look for, stating quote, "If you think about it,
00:32:55
which is worse? A serial killer or four separate killers running around out there and we don't know who any of them
00:33:01
are." Right. And so, this is very similar to um the Texas killing fields, possibly,
00:33:08
where it's just a dumping ground. Exactly. The the tough thing here, though, is that you're now dumping
00:33:14
not only couples, but you're dumping their vehicle, as well. And that becomes a a different problem. And so, in three
00:33:22
of the cases, you're dumping a you're possibly dumping a vehicle. Correct. Which which makes it very similar.
00:33:31
Again, look, if you're just if there's three random sets of bodies dumped somewhere along this area, that
00:33:39
makes a little more sense. Once you throw in the car scenario, that's a lot more time and effort. Somebody's going
00:33:44
to have to get somebody to pick them up, or we would at least seen some eyewitnesses that said, "Hey, the night
00:33:51
that these people went missing, we saw this guy walking on the side of the road," or whatever it was.
00:33:56
Here's the thought, though, too. Is it such a big deal that they're not working together? That the law
00:34:02
enforcement agencies aren't working together? Here's my thought. Meaning, whether
00:34:06
they're related or not, as long as they're being worked, if in fact it turns out that it is the work of one
00:34:13
serial killer, then if you solve one, likely you should solve some of the others or all of them, right? As long as
00:34:21
they're being worked and worked good. Yeah, and it well, if we have this hair from the first couple,
00:34:28
and we think that these cases are connected, this is something that's going to have to be answered pretty
00:34:32
quickly because if we do have this DNA as we know with all these other cases a lot of people are taking these cold
00:34:40
case files, taking DNA, and they're having them tested with ancestry. So, we're going to get within a spectrum,
00:34:47
you know, within cousins, within aunts and uncles of possibly the murder of this first couple because
00:34:54
we have that DNA evidence. Now you're going to have to figure out does this individual have alibis for
00:34:59
those other couples? Are you going to be able to get him to confess to those if they are connected?
00:35:06
Well, and here's the thing. I think the biggest factor that has contributed to the failure to solve any or all of these
00:35:15
crimes is that the crime scenes were compromised. Evidence has been lost, damaged, or destroyed. You know, and we
00:35:24
know in the first case that the park ranger smashed out the back window of Kathy's car.
00:35:30
We have some other examples, too. There are stories coming from family members that say and and and keep in mind we'll
00:35:37
keep we'll take this with a grain of salt because these are hurt loved ones of victims.
00:35:42
But there are stories that have come from family members that say that at least one of the vehicles
00:35:49
was towed back to the family and given back to the family and it was never processed. And in fact, that later when
00:35:58
they came to take fingerprints from inside of the truck, inside of David's truck, this is
00:36:04
days and days later that they took the fingerprints and then later the father finds the fingerprint
00:36:11
cards out in the front lawn. Right. That they didn't they didn't for whatever reason bring them back to the
00:36:17
lab or wherever they were intended to take these things. Right, and these cases have been cold for a while and I
00:36:23
don't think their frustration was from the beginning, but I think because the FBI was doing a lecture and
00:36:31
somebody made these these crime scene photos public during this lecture. I believe it was 2008. So,
00:36:40
everything's kind of resurfaced since then. Well, that was because the FBI had egg
00:36:46
on its face, and it needed to to reassure the families that they are going to make good on this and that they
00:36:55
are going to work these their two federal cases until they're solved. Yeah, and I think they like announced to
00:37:01
the public, "We're reopening them and assigning new people to them." But, they also throw they threw a local
00:37:08
um park ranger kind of under the bus. He's the one that I think exposed them cuz he
00:37:16
was at the lecture. Well, Okay, so the way this goes down is in October of 2008. This is at a law enforcement
00:37:24
training school in Hampton. Uh the school had an old FBI slideshow of crime scenes from the Colonial
00:37:32
Parkway murders. So, the school's owner The school's not run by the FBI. The school's owner asked this guy named Fred
00:37:40
Atwell, who was a former deputy sheriff, to speak at a few classes regarding the
00:37:46
murders. Atwell was very familiar with the cases. So, while he's there to speak to the classes, Atwell saw that crime
00:37:54
scene photos were being used in this training program. So, Right. for how long we don't know.
00:38:00
But, there were 78 images that featured detailed color shots of the cars, glove box open, wallets out, clothes in the
00:38:10
back seats. There were also pictures of the victims shot, strangled, slashed. So, Atwell called the FBI to report that
00:38:19
the active case photos were being used in a public forum. Mhm. The FBI didn't really respond in the
00:38:27
manner that Atwell wanted him to, so he contacted a local TV station, which then
00:38:32
later publicized the leak. Mhm. Okay, so an investigation revealed that the FBI um this was an FBI photographer
00:38:42
had taken a duplicate set of slides before retiring in 2001. And he became an instructor at this
00:38:50
Hampton Law Enforcement School, and he was using them for training purposes. Which yeah, you have to use stuff like
00:38:58
this, but you would assume that they'd be using cases that are one not of the area, but
00:39:03
two cases that are solved. Well, and before we even get to that, we have the situation of the Rangers finding the
00:39:10
vehicle, and then then the father finding the vehicle later. We already discussed that one.
00:39:15
Mhm. Law, egg on the Rangers' face. But we also we have compromised crime scenes to the point of remember they
00:39:21
find the lost vehicle, and a jogger later later finds the bodies. Mhm. Or finds the body. So, what does that mean?
00:39:31
They didn't rope off the crime scene enough. They allowed a jogger to go jogging through the crime scene Mhm. to
00:39:38
find the body. And then we have a situation that took place in 1994. Now, I do know that we have said that
00:39:46
there were no signs of sexual assault regarding Kathy and Becky's case, the first set of murders.
00:39:51
Mhm. But there were rape kits that were conducted in that investigation. For whatever reason, instead of them ending
00:39:58
up back at the FBI's office, they ended up at the York County Sheriff's Department. To which once they are it's
00:40:04
made known to them, "Hey, your rape kits ended up here." The FBI sent a fax to York County ordering them to destroy the
00:40:11
rape kits. So, even if they're you know, even though there's no signs of sexual assault, let's say that there
00:40:17
was. We don't know for certain that there was or was not. Mhm. All these years later, maybe that
00:40:23
could have led to something. Maybe we could have gained some evidence from those old rape kits. So, the first
00:40:29
couple is murdered in '86, second couple in '87, third couple in '88. Then the last couple or the fourth
00:40:37
couple in '89. So, everybody thought that's when it stopped, but there's another case that
00:40:43
happened in 1996 that is very similar to the first murders in in '86. Well, and this connection is made from a man by
00:40:53
the name of Steve Spingola. Okay, so Steve Spingola is a retired detective and he is an investigative journalist.
00:41:00
At some point, some of the victims' families got together and started asking him for help. And he came to some
00:41:07
interesting conclusions. He wrote a magazine article titled Predators on the Parkway summarizing his findings in his
00:41:13
investigation. Among these things, he revealed that cigarette butts were found at the first murder scene and that the
00:41:20
rope used in the first murders the rope that was found on the victim's neck tested positive for brine or for
00:41:27
seawater. He also revealed that they had found a note in Anna Maria Phelps' handwriting indicating that she had
00:41:34
planned to meet someone in a blue van at the rest stop. And this is the fourth fourth couple. Correct. Now, probably
00:41:41
the most surprising of Spingola's conclusions was that he believed that the cases were likely not all related.
00:41:48
He did, however, link Kathy and Becky's, the first murder, case to a 1996 murder
00:41:55
of a lesbian couple elsewhere in Virginia. So, as if things weren't complicated enough,
00:42:01
this was the double murder of Julian Williams and Laura Winans which took place in Virginia's Shenandoah National
00:42:08
Park in June of '96. Do you know how far away this was? It's a 3 to 4-hour drive
00:42:14
from the Colonial Parkway area. Laura was a college student and Julianne had just graduated with a degree in uh
00:42:23
geology. They were in a same-sex relationship. They were on a camping trip. Both were
00:42:29
considered to be experienced hikers. They were found at their campsite just off of a scenic trail on Skyline Drive,
00:42:38
bound and gagged with their own clothing, naked and their throats were cut. The killer had used duct tape and
00:42:45
it is believed that he brought the duct tape with them with him. Laura's golden retriever, Taj, was found
00:42:52
unharmed and nearby. This case remains unsolved and the The FBI has said publicly that they believe
00:43:00
there are substantial similarities between this case and that of the first murders back in 1986. And you wonder if
00:43:08
it's some kind of anniversary killing. So, you asked earlier if I thought that they are related, if they were
00:43:15
connected. I think we approach it in this manner here, Captain, that we do have a lot of investigators that buy
00:43:22
into the serial killer theory. And the ones that have, they haven't established a profile of their likely
00:43:30
killer. And they state that he would be a Caucasian male. He was likely in his 20s or early 30s in the mid to late 80s.
00:43:39
He is of average or above-average intelligence. He has good social skills, lived with a partner, owned a vehicle,
00:43:48
and possibly had begun undergoing some kind of stress that inspired the crimes. He probably committed the crimes in his
00:43:57
uh probably committed other crimes in his youth such as setting fires, killing animals, and so on. And the pattern
00:44:05
escalated as he got old. He be- he's becoming more violent as he gets older. They also state that he is very
00:44:12
organized, that he brought his weapons along with him. He controlled his victims before killing them, never
00:44:18
mutilated or molested the bodies, concealed the corpses, or at least attempted to, and waited for long
00:44:26
periods of time before striking again. Finally, this killer exhibited great self-control, refraining from taunting
00:44:33
law enforcement with letters or clues like the Son of Sam or the Zodiac Killer. He his killings showed that he has or
00:44:43
was refining his craft and evolving. He got more efficient and less messy with each of these murders. It was even
00:44:50
possible that he was deliberately changing up his MO to keep investigators guessing. Several of the investigators
00:44:58
believe that there is a strong possibility that the killer was actually two people operating as a team. Now for
00:45:04
the fun part, Captain. We get to throw some individuals under the bus. People that have been considered suspects
00:45:11
throughout the course of these investigations. Now, I do want to keep in mind, everybody keep in mind, there's
00:45:15
been like 130 to 150 suspects, depending on which report you read. Obviously, we're not going to go through all of
00:45:23
them, but we will go through some of the more noteworthy ones, right? So, first we have and this is in no particular
00:45:30
order, all right? This is kind of random order. First, we have Fred Atwell, okay?
00:45:35
As you might recall, Fred Atwell was the deputy who discovered that the FBI's crime scene photos had been released.
00:45:42
He has a checkered history. He had two burglary convictions and had bounced around from one local law enforcement
00:45:49
role to another. Apparently, background checks weren't a thing when they were hiring these officers. In any
00:45:56
event, Atwell was a deputy at the Gloucester County Sheriff's Department, which was apparently known to have
00:46:04
employed some questionable characters at the time of the murders. After the crime scene photo photo
00:46:10
debacle, Atwell inserted himself into the Parkway cases, befriending the families and
00:46:17
trying to act as a go-between with his supposed law enforcement connections. Eventually, Atwell's true
00:46:25
character emerged, and he was arrested in 2011 for fraud, for stealing money that he had raised in a phony car raffle
00:46:35
on the pretense of contributing the money to the Colonial Parkway Victims Fund. Later that year, he was arrested again
00:46:42
for robbing a woman at gunpoint. Atwell admitted that he had been looked at as a
00:46:48
suspect, possible suspect, in the crimes, but he has vehemently denied any involvement. He claims that the FBI
00:46:55
labeled him a suspect as retaliation for his public disclosure of the leaked crime scene photos. Yeah, or the fact
00:47:03
that you're a piece of [ __ ] for trying to raise money for dead people, and then
00:47:07
you steal the money. That's pretty shady. I'm going to kind of look into you after that. Fred Atwell, well, you
00:47:14
can feel safe and feel good somewhat to know that Fred Atwell remains He remains
00:47:20
in prison for the fraud charges and the robbery convictions. He is scheduled to be released in 2020.
00:47:27
Then we have Ronald Little. The whole The The problem with Fred is the fact that he would have They would have had
00:47:34
They would have collected his DNA. And I think if the FBI really thought Fred was a a suspect, they would be
00:47:40
testing the DNA they found on the hair in the first murders. Ronald Little was a 32-year-old
00:47:48
convicted felon from New Zealand who somehow managed to hide his criminal record and gain entry into the United
00:47:55
States. He ended up in the Newport News area and worked as a private investigator.
00:48:01
He had owned and operated a security company that provided security for local businesses.
00:48:08
He had permits to carry guns. Liberty Security employed law enforcement officers as security guards.
00:48:15
So, Liberty Security is his company, all right? And they're employing law enforcement officers as some of their
00:48:21
security guards. This is not an uncommon practice. This included a Fred Atwell for one.
00:48:29
Furthermore, Liberty has some strange connections to the Parkway cases. And that being Rob- Robin Edwards' mother,
00:48:37
Bonnie. She was part of the second murder case. Right. She worked at Liberty Security at one
00:48:44
point. And I believe she worked there at the time of the murders. Terry Haley, this is Sandy's sister, dated a man
00:48:52
named Steve Blackman who worked at Liberty Security. We will talk more about Steve in a
00:48:58
little bit. But in 1988, Ron Little sent out letters to congressmen and local politicians and the media
00:49:07
saying that he had been he was being railroaded by the FBI for the Parkway cases. Specifically, he stated that he
00:49:13
was being targeted as a suspect in the killings of Robin Edwards and David Nobling.
00:49:18
He also said that the FBI had looked at him for the Keith and Sandy disappearance. Now, the weird thing
00:49:25
about this is he's sending out all these letters. According to law enforcement and
00:49:30
according to the FBI, they never had looked at this guy. Huh. They didn't know what he was talking about.
00:49:36
Maybe he wanted to be looked at. Take a peek. Well, Take a peek behind the curtain.
00:49:43
He The officials denied that he was a suspect in any of the crimes, but Little was taken into custody in May of 1989.
00:49:51
Um so, he Or you you also wonder Wait, okay. Hold on before you get to the next one.
00:49:56
You also wonder Was somebody just messing with him? Like calling him? Oh, yeah. Yeah.
00:50:01
like, "This is the FBI. Where were you, you son of a bitch?" Well, that's interesting that you bring that up. I
00:50:06
never thought about that, but knowing what I know about this individual, it's likely that he had enemies.
00:50:15
Mhm. You know, somebody might want to wanted to have messed with him. We do have to keep in mind though, he was
00:50:20
eventually arrested and this was in May of 1989. So, he could not be responsible
00:50:26
for Anna Maria and and Daniel's killing, okay? He was not out walking around by the time the fourth case went down.
00:50:34
Again, I assume that if the FBI thinks that you're a suspect in this case, they're testing your DNA.
00:50:41
Yeah, it Well, this thing came about I don't know if his DNA ever would have been tested.
00:50:46
Mhm. Because he wasn't arrested in the traditional sense. Remember, he was from New Zealand and he checked in and got
00:50:54
into the United States by lying that he did not have a criminal background. Cheers, mates. Right. So, they figure
00:51:00
out that he's actually a criminal who got into our country, so they deported him.
00:51:05
Mhm. So, they shipped him back, so to speak. And then the killing stopped. Okay, I said that we would talk about
00:51:11
Steve Blackman. Steve Blackman is a disgraced ex-police officer Okay. who kept getting into trouble and
00:51:18
moved around from branch to branch of various local law enforcement entities in this area of Virginia, including the
00:51:26
Newport News PD, where he was held a position for nine years. so many dis disgraced bankers that have been
00:51:34
uh transferred from one branch to another branch. Well, he was also later employed by the Gloucester County
00:51:41
Sheriff's Department. Mhm. And according to sources who have knowledge of the situation, uh I I I
00:51:48
found this quote very interesting, okay? Mhm. They say Blackman was a bad guy involved in drugs, underage girls, and
00:51:56
general thuggery. Thuggery? Yeah. Mhm. Blackman moonlighted as a security guard for
00:52:03
Liberty Security. Remember they have some ties to a couple of these murders. Right, right.
00:52:08
And his buddy was Ron Little. He also dated Terry Haley. This was one of the victim's sisters. Mhm. Okay? Reports are
00:52:16
also out there that his his family owned property along the James River near the Parkway, meaning he
00:52:22
was familiar with the area and had access to a home base near two of the killings.
00:52:28
Yeah, maybe we should search his property. Blackman moved away from the area in 1989 and the Parkway killings had
00:52:36
stopped. Mhm. He ended up getting hired as a sheriff's deputy in Florence County, South Carolina in 1990. This is
00:52:44
where he he shot two men and killed them who broke into uh some reports say his home, some
00:52:51
reports say his father's home. What year was that? 1990. Um he shot them 11 times. Now, he was fired
00:53:01
after the incident because they figured out that cocaine was found in his system
00:53:06
during the course of the shootings. Hell of a drug. He was indicted for double murder and underwent a psychiatric uh
00:53:15
evaluation. He did serve some time. I don't have that right in front of me. I believe it he only served a few years
00:53:22
because it's possible they were able to prove that these individuals actually broke into the home. Mhm. Um from what I
00:53:29
could find, I was trying Think about this, so you're you're at home, right? Mhm. You're high as a kite.
00:53:36
Right. Minding your own damn business. Mhm. Two son sons of [ __ ] break into your
00:53:42
house. You shoot them. They test you for drugs and then they send you to jail. Like, "Hey, I'm protecting myself and
00:53:51
I'm protecting my home. It doesn't matter if I'm drunk or not, officer." I think this is one of those guys that had
00:53:58
a always had a suspicion of him that he was using his badge and using his power to help get him drugs and girls and some
00:54:07
of them might have been underage and he was involved in trading guns, stealing guns, dealing with briberies, all kinds
00:54:15
of stuff. Mhm. And I think when this goes down, this is something legit that they could
00:54:19
probably nail him on and let's Okay, let's get him let's fire him and let's get him behind
00:54:25
bars even if it is for a short period of time. I tried to locate where this guy was. Now, I'm sure somebody better than
00:54:32
me could do it. Like I said, I think he only served a few years and I believe that he would be out of prison now.
00:54:40
Well, and he would have been out of prison in time to if the 1996 murder is connected to
00:54:46
these, he would have been out in time to commit those as well. Well, here's Yes, and here's the
00:54:52
thought, too, I think surrounding Steve Blackman and also possibly Ronald Little. They were very close.
00:55:00
And I think the thought is that there is suspicion surrounding both of them. I think the thought here is that these
00:55:08
two may have committed these crimes together. And that even though Ronald Little was
00:55:13
locked up was deported in 1989 before the '89 killings, that potentially the two of them could
00:55:21
could have committed the earlier ones together and then maybe Steve Blackman committed the last one without
00:55:28
the help of Ronald Little. Clyde Yee is an interesting character. He was a ranger patrolling the Colonial
00:55:38
Parkway during the time of the murders. Parkway victims family sources have learned that Yee had violent
00:55:47
tendencies and had sexually harassed women by pulling them over on the Parkway. A number of women had filed
00:55:55
complaints against him for harassment involving inappropriate comments. What makes Yee interesting is that he was
00:56:02
transferred out of the Parkway area to the Shenandoah National Park where he was stationed in 1996. This is
00:56:10
Mhm. for the '96 killings. So, after that, he was transferred out again uh and he was involved in a very
00:56:17
controversial case where he manufactured evidence and acted inappropriately in an
00:56:23
investigation of Indian trade trading post maintained by the National Park Service.
00:56:29
Yee Yee reportedly passed a polygraph about whether he had any involvement in the Parkway murders, but he has never
00:56:37
been ruled out as a possible suspect. He's weird because I've seen reports that say he's been ruled out because of
00:56:44
this polygraph. Mhm. The thing I want to point out here is there are a lot of stories that include
00:56:51
Clyde Yee as being one of the first responders to the first murder scene. And remember where we said it it's
00:56:57
unclear which ranger broke the window on the hatchback to gain access to the vehicle. Mhm. There are some people that
00:57:04
think that Clyde Yee was that individual. Right. And that maybe it is on the surface it
00:57:10
looks like, "Hey, I'm trying to help the situation." But boom, I'm also contaminating the crime scene at the
00:57:17
same time for something that I may have been involved in. Right. So, he's weird because you can place him in
00:57:25
the area of the Parkway at the time of the two Parkway murders and And you could place him as working
00:57:31
in the area of the Shenandoah murders that took place in '96. So, And he's a Caucasian. He Yes, and he is um
00:57:39
furthermore, a ranger. Right. You know, he would have that ability to ability to
00:57:43
pull people over, to approach cars. He would have a He would have a gun on him. So,
00:57:48
Right, but again, if you're moving these vehicles, why not just take the time to
00:57:52
shut the glove box. Uh-huh. Why not roll up the window? Why not take the time to do that?
00:57:59
Right. Right, I see what you're saying. He would only technically be connected to three
00:58:05
of these potentially five double homicides, in my opinion. Then we have another interesting guy.
00:58:12
This is Darrell David Rice. Darrell Strawberry. He's a former computer programmer who pled guilty in 1998 to an
00:58:20
abduction charge, in which he was accused of verbally and physically assaulting a female bicyclist in the
00:58:26
Shenandoah National Park. Mhm. She avoided being forced into his truck. She states, "He was going to try to kill
00:58:33
me." Uh when she flees him, he tries to run her over with his truck. Investigators later
00:58:41
discovered hand and leg restraints inside Rice's vehicle. He was sentenced to 136 months in prison on that
00:58:49
conviction. While in prison, he made comments that could be seen as implicating himself in the 1996 double
00:58:56
murder of Julianne and Laura in the National Park. He was known to frequent the park as a biker and hiker. And in
00:59:05
fact, this is interesting about David uh Darrell David Rice. Mhm. Okay? He may be guilty of one of these crimes.
00:59:14
And here's why. Because there was videotape There was videotape evidence of him having entered
00:59:22
the park on the days that the murders were committed in 1996. Mhm. A grand jury indicted him for those
00:59:30
murders, but he was eventually freed because unknown male DNA on hairs found on the
00:59:37
duct tape binding the victims did not match Rice's DNA. Well, so now if we have this hair, can we please
00:59:46
test it against the the first crime scene from 10 years prior? Well, and here's the thing that I want to be clear on on
00:59:53
this 1996 double homicide. In my opinion, this this evidence, this hair found on the duct tape does not
01:00:00
exclude him. It just It just causes It causes problems with getting him convicted. So,
01:00:08
he does remain remain a strong suspect in that case. Rice was cleared for the Colonial
01:00:14
Parkway murders, although investigators would not disclose why or how he was ruled out, but
01:00:21
they may have his DNA, like you said. And if they have DNA from one or more of the crime scenes, maybe this is how they
01:00:28
were able to rule him out. All right, one more suspect. Michael Nicholaou. So, he's a strong suspect. He lived in
01:00:36
Charlottesville, Virginia around the time of the crimes, where he was an undercover
01:00:42
officer. Mhm. This is for the Charlottesville PD for for a period of time. Nicholaou is the main suspect in the
01:00:50
Connecticut River Valley killings, as well, and suspected in the disappearance of his first wife. He killed himself in
01:00:57
Florida after having murdered his second wife and his stepdaughter. There's not a lot of information tying
01:01:05
this guy to these actual cases, other than the fact that he's a known murderer that lived in the area at the time, and
01:01:12
he's also suspected in another string of murders that took place not too far away.
01:01:17
So, how many suspects do we have in this thing? Different reports that the reports vary, but I've seen as little as
01:01:23
130 to as many as 150. So, just meaning that there's freaks everywhere. So, lock your doors. Be
01:01:30
safe. Don't get murdered. Couple of theories though here, Captain. We've talked about, you know, kind of been all
01:01:37
over the shop with the theories throughout the coverage of these cases, but one that I want to mention is
01:01:44
there is one so-called theory that I find extremely interesting. And this is the waterman theory.
01:01:50
This theory developed largely because of one, the locations of the murders were all near waterways, and two, the diesel
01:01:58
fuel that was found at the first murder scene. Diesel fuel not being super common. So, some experts
01:02:05
have been led to believe that the diesel fuel, which is used primarily to used in
01:02:11
a lot of cases to power boats, was something that the killer had happened to have with him when he committed that
01:02:18
first set of murders. And traveling by boat would also explain how the killer would manage to escape without being
01:02:25
seen on walking on the on the parkway or risk leaving his car somewhere else while he killed his victims and then
01:02:34
return to it. This too could mean that it were it was two men working together traveling by boat to and from these
01:02:42
different crime scenes. And one thing to back that up is in the first set of murders, they were
01:02:49
strongly looking at this waterman theory. And we know that law enforcement and FBI, they surveyed watermen in the
01:02:57
area. They were looking for what they said were two men fitting what they thought they were looking for. Okay? One
01:03:05
thing that they found at the first crime scene was they state that nautical line
01:03:10
was found in the hair of one of the victims. Right, one of the victims was in the Navy, right?
01:03:18
Well, she didn't She had been discharged from the Navy at that point. She was a stockbroker.
01:03:24
So, there's a couple of other theories and this kind of revolves around the the time frame of these murders, okay? And
01:03:32
when these the times of when these crimes took place. And the thought being that it could be a federal employee
01:03:40
because we have murders that took place two on the weekend and two right before or just after a long holiday weekend.
01:03:49
Somebody that would have been working in the area and would not have had to have
01:03:52
had their time accounted for during the course of those four murders. For you to
01:03:57
believe this theory, then you have to believe that the '96 double homicide in the park was not related or linked to
01:04:04
the first four double homicide cases. And why do you have to believe that? Well, I guess that you don't have to
01:04:11
believe it. Um I'm just going off of the theory here is that it was a federal employee based off of the the dates
01:04:19
the likely dates of when these first four homicides double homicides were committed.
01:04:24
Right. And that person could be on The one in '96 Mhm. we don't know exactly what day they were killed on. The this
01:04:32
camping trip was quite extensive one uh and and two like I said, I guess you don't have to
01:04:39
say that they weren't involved in the '96. Where this theory originates based off
01:04:44
of the first four double homicides. Still basing the idea of this theory around the murders having taken place on
01:04:53
a weekend or just before or just after a weekend. Mhm. There's some thought and a theory
01:04:59
out there that this the perpetrator may have been a William and Mary college student
01:05:05
because all of these dates line up with the college calendar. The William and Mary college calendar. Meaning the
01:05:12
person wouldn't have been in class or wouldn't have had class the following day.
01:05:17
The other thing too that's interesting about that is the first four murders take place within a four-year time span,
01:05:24
which would be you know, considered by many to be the average the average stay of an out of town
01:05:30
college student. Mhm. So, the thought here being that a college student moves into the area for whatever reason kills
01:05:38
during the course of their time at William and Mary and then after the final killing graduates and moves away
01:05:46
and either starts killing in another city at some point or it was a pair of college students that once their time
01:05:54
away from you know, was done with one another that they stopped killing altogether. So, what's your final
01:06:00
thoughts on the Colonial Parkway murders? Super fascinating case. This is one that has always intrigued me and I
01:06:06
I've I look at it a little different each time uh as to whether they're connected or not. I
01:06:14
think the problem here is that they're not connected. Mhm. I actually think that that might be more
01:06:21
of the issue and I think that they're I don't want to say they're they're all separate cases. I think there's a chance
01:06:28
that one or two or three of them might be somehow linked. Mhm. But I think that there are cases in
01:06:34
here that are different. And the ones that that look different to me, the second double homicide
01:06:41
where we have the possible motive of rape of the female victim. Mhm. I think that that presents a whole
01:06:48
new variable that we don't Different weapon as well. Yeah, that we didn't see in the other crimes. I think
01:06:55
that the local police theory there might be somewhat correct. And their thought is that somebody they knew got them out
01:07:03
of the the vehicle and shot them. Meaning they might have been there to meet somebody. And we have David's
01:07:09
father who has said time and time again, look, this Ragged Island, this was a place known for
01:07:16
teenagers to hang out and do drugs, to purchase drugs. There is some thought that maybe the two of them, hey, I pick
01:07:23
up this girl that I barely know. Let's go out to this island, let's party, let's have a really good time, right?
01:07:28
And the thought here is that maybe they made a phone call to somebody to purchase some drugs. Hey, meet me out
01:07:35
on Ragged Island. And for whatever reason that thing turned wrong. The And there's one individual in particular
01:07:43
and the police haven't really released a lot of information on this individual because this is speculation. But there
01:07:51
is a guy that they refer to as drug dealer and rapist Washington. Okay, they think that he is a possible
01:08:00
very strong suspect in that second double homicide. He somehow knew the female victim.
01:08:08
And there was rumor that he had told somebody that he wanted to that he wanted to rape her.
01:08:14
And he might wanted to rape and kill her. There was a witness that led law enforcement to this guy that we only
01:08:21
know as {quote} drug dealer and rapist Washington. But the local police theory is that this
01:08:28
Washington guy shows up on Ragged Island to sell them drugs. And when he's there,
01:08:34
he decides he's going to rape the victim and it turns into a situation where he has to shoot the female victim and the
01:08:41
male victim execution style. Okay, so it's interesting that there is a strong suspect there. Now, the witness
01:08:47
that led local police to this guy conveniently for this Washington guy, this eyewitness is no longer around.
01:08:56
He's dead. And then we have a situation where with the fourth homicide, the fourth double
01:09:05
homicide, there was a suspect in this case and his name is Joseph Gadsy. Joseph Gadsy knew the male victim and
01:09:14
may have known the female victim, but it's believed that Gadsy knew that the male victim would have $800 cash on him
01:09:21
at that time and that Gadsy had somehow either intercepted these two individuals
01:09:27
that were traveling or had met up with them at the rest stop, took them out into the woods and killed them there and
01:09:35
then dumped the car near the rest stop. So, I think we have a situation here where a
01:09:41
couple of these cases might not in fact be linked and I think that the the the argument and the squabble of them having
01:09:47
been linked or not being linked back and forth, back and forth, I think that that
01:09:52
has been a major stumbling block in in in these cases. Yeah, and the I think the interesting thing in all these cases
01:09:59
that that the reason why people link them so much and it's hard to not want to link them is cuz it
01:10:06
always seemed like it's like a traffic stop. Their cars are always left in some disarray of a traffic stop.
01:10:14
Yeah, and I think with this one maybe if one of these are solved soon, I wouldn't be surprised. Don't don't
01:10:22
jump to the conclusion that if one case out of this series is solved soon, that the rest are going to follow right
01:10:28
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