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all right [Music] [Music] foreign [Music] four years later and no arrest in the Delphi case as the days continue to pass
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on we keep asking Indiana State Police are they getting any closer to a break in this double homicide case
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it's been four years since the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German and still the voice of the suspected
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killer continues to haunt Delphi Indiana that audio clip of the Killer's voice telling the girls to go down the hill
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was released by Indiana State Police investigators say Libby recorded the suspect's voice and snapped this photo
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on her cell phone before her young life was taken away tonight the killer still on the Run
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being chased down by many of the investigators who've been out there since day one like Carroll County
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sheriff tobles and B seems like it was just yesterday when we started this thing 13 year old Abby and 14 year old
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Libby were out on a walk on the Delphi historic Trails on February 13th of 2017. when investigators say they were
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approached by this man the girl's bodies were found the next day in the woods about a mile off of the main trail in
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2019 Indiana State Police released an updated sketch of the suspect that composite looked nothing like this
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previous sketch which had been the face of the investigation for two years it's like wait a minute now we got to start
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all over and we've got to explain why they're doing what they're doing they've obviously received enough information on
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the first sketch to realize that that person isn't the right one several agencies still working this
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investigation all of them we're having like a team weekly meeting in Delphi the Carroll County Sheriff
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dedicated two detectives in his small Department to follow up on leads basic footwork legwork so to say phone calls
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what was this individual doing on February 13 2017 you know where they work where they traveling for the past
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four years police have served search warrants questioned Persons of Interest and received thousands of tips still no
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arrest we still have those up and down days I guess it's the easiest way to put it
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hello [Music] the general statement across the board from law enforcement and the Press is
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that there is no new news in the four-year-old Delphi murders case and Captain I say we gotta get rolling we
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gotta Jump Right In because no new news heck we got a whole bunch of stuff to talk about here
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first it was announced that there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty
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German and Abigail Williams the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in
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2017 and did not return alive a questions about the case from both the local community and across the nation
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and Beyond have been escalating for more than two years so a few weeks ago the local newspaper the Carroll County Comet
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ran the following readers invited to submit questions about double homicide Carroll County Sheriff Tobe lessenby
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agreed to answer questions solicited by the comment from readers and others alright Captain let's Dive Right into
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this I actually submitted some questions myself hoping that they would be chosen
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and we might get some answers to these questions so the questions I sent in are as follows first I did a little butt
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kissing it it always helps to do a little uh you know Grease the wheels a bit here well it's better to do butt
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kissing than butt sniffing there you go so I started off by saying dear Sheriff lessenby thank you for your hard work
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and continued efforts on the this very difficult case I truly appreciate the dedication shown by you in the Carroll
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County Sheriff's department now for the brilliant questions is there any reason to believe the killer had some kind of
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help or assistance and is this making this difficult case even more complicated than normal by help or
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assistance specifically I mean a second perpetrator or maybe someone who dropped
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the man off or picked him up or do you think someone is providing a false Alibi well I also think people lean to the
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idea that there's two individuals because there's two sketches and they look so dramatically different from each
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other yes and you've often heard me say that I believe that the bridge guy has some kind of help I don't know what that
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is and again it could be someone unknowingly helping this guy or even willingly the second question I
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submitted was if the man on the bridge was totally alone where do you think he parked his vehicle if a vehicle was used
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at all again a great question and this is something that law enforcement pointed out as one of the kind of their
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updates was they were looking for a vehicle they never tell you the color the make or the
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model they don't tell you if it's a sedan or if it's a truck but there is a vehicle that they wanted people to come
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forward if they saw it I believe on the 13th uh no update from law enforcement on
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that vehicle I would have to go back to our previous Delphi murders shows which we've done seven of them so far the
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first was Delphi Murders episodes one and two parts one and two I'm sorry episodes 110 and 111. this is back from
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May 2017. so we've been there since the beginning and we've continued to cover this case and look into it when
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something new comes out and one of the great things about this case about the True Crime community and this case is
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right from the beginning people were promoting pictures that law enforcement put out the sketches that they put out
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then we've had some updates a big change two years after the murders when they released the new photos but we've also
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had some big Publications on this a podcast that was pretty huge down the hill and then just recently released
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around the four year anniversary the down the hill documentary on HLA yeah we Revisited the case in July of 2019 and
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this would be after that big press conference with the news updates when they changed to the new sketch and said
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the old sketch would now become secondary it was during that news conference that they also released
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information about the vehicle that you just mentioned I do believe there was some very brief and vague description I
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would have to refer back to those episodes but our first two episodes there was really nothing as far as good
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information the timeline was much shorter than what we now know it to be so really we were able to lay out a
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really good detailed timeline with much speculation in those later Delphi episodes which again we did four parts
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in July of 2019 so again sticking with the vehicle idea my third question is is there still
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reason to believe that the vehicle previously mentioned in news releases is in fact involved or has that vehicle
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been cleared as you said captain they asked for tips about this vehicle we've received no update as to if it's
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still information that they're even looking for at this point right and then some interviews I've seen law
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enforcement still state that they believe they're one tip away from solving this case so without the long
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lead in it I'm now going to go through the questions that were selected and the answers provided to those questions by
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the sheriff in charge Tobe lessenby the Carroll County comment starts off by saying there are five sections of
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questions to this story that's pretty interesting they broke them down into a few different sections to keep it nice
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and neat and easy to follow for the reader and the five sections are as follows those specific to the double
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homicide case questions concerning internal and external Communications questions about the crime scene and
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adjacent Terrain questions about the command center and questions about the overall safety of
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Carroll County the first question Captain is do you consider this a cold case and why and
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Sheriff Tobe lessenby responds absolutely not a true Cold Case provides no leads no information to follow into
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this is not the situation with the Abbey and Libby investigation our investigators are still on a daily basis
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receiving information which can be looked into in essence the well has not gone dry he
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says well what's really interesting about the down the hill HLN documentary is when they talk about the early
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involvement with the FBI how they didn't hesitate they got him involved at one point the FBI agent said there was
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hundreds of Agents working this case next question how would this case be handled from the
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beginning had there not been any audio slash video of the person of interest answer obviously we would have had to
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rely on other evidence gained from all sources is there any area that you can see like I just said there was hundreds
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of FBI agents work in this case is there anything that sticks out at you that you
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would have done differently if you were in charge of the investigation that's very difficult to answer because I don't
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know what information they know to be fact right that that we are uncertain of stuff that's probably just been
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speculation and rumored about so far in this investigation I did recall hearing tobles and be say you
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know he was asked one of course he's asked this question here but uh he was asked a similar question
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some different words involved but very similar question and one thing he did say was you know we called some dogs in
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some Bloodhounds that were going to come in and help us search for the girls when
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they were still missing right and he says you know if I could go back and do it again what they did was when they
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found the girls unfortunately if they find them dead when they found the girls these dogs
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were being brought in from out of town if not out of state we called that off and he says if I could go back and
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change at least one thing I would have changed that I would have still let the dog show up because maybe they could
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have provided a a trail maybe not necessarily to the killer but at least the dogs may have been able to
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follow the Killer and we might have been able to learn some of his movements or at the very least what way he he left
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this area right because I I think the difficult thing here is I don't think there's any clear going back over all
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the interviews going back over different podcast episodes and the documentary I don't think there's any clear definitive
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eyewitness that can say I absolutely saw Bridgeman enter or leave the park I think there's people that believe they
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saw Bridgeman but then they say ah I think I saw Bridgeman but he didn't have his jacket on at that point
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so again I think this is a big misstep and one of the things when you look at the crime scene we know that this
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perpetrator took these victims down across the river to the other side did he come back across that River leave the
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park entrance or was his vehicle parked somewhere else or did he leave on foot and I think if you look at the two in
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the close proximity of the crime scene there's multiple locations on that river that look like you can cross like a bed
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of rocks or where it's just very low water and there's Pebbles and stuff around so I think that dogs would have a
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really good shot at keeping the scent of the perpetrator and one thing that the sheriff is on record as saying is that
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look we have a lot of what he calls very good speculation about what direction and how the perpetrator would exit sit
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this area but he said it's just that it's just very good speculation we do not know for certain how he left this
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area did one or more than one set of footprints lead Searchers to the area where the girls were found
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and lezambi gives the following answer this speaks to an evidentiary aspect of the investigation and I would
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respectfully prefer not to answer this is interesting because I I don't know if you've seen this or heard this before
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about the potential of footprints that being from bridge guy and or the victims or both
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that may have led the people looking for Libby and Abby to their bodies I I had not seen this speculation before
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it's it's certainly not out of bounds it's something anybody would have thought of I had always heard the rumor
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that there was something that alerted one of the Searchers and kind of got their attention
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and at the same time they very quickly saw what they thought could be one of the victims
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and then they they walked in that direction and confirmed it was what they thought they were seeing well what we do
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know is confirmed with law enforcement is like I said the perpetrator took the victims across water so even if the
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ground is hard and not leaving footprints around the Water Area there could be some muddy spots
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and if the perpetrator crossed that water multiple times good possibility that somewhere he left a footprint is
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there partial DNA or a full DNA profile of the suspect if there is DNA has it been run against a genealogy DNA
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database and his answer is very similar this also speaks to evidentiary aspect of the investigation so he declines to
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answer however he is on record saying we do have DNA now is it that of The Killers we don't know
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yeah it's very difficult here there's a lot of Rumblings online that I've heard that they do have DNA I obviously can't
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confirm that but the other rumor that I hear is that this individual was at one of the searches and from people being at
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the search they said well look there was tons of people in the community searching and what were they doing they
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were smoking cigarettes they were drinking bottled water sodas dipping what do you say after every episode
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don't Litter these individuals were littering all over so is it possible that from one of these items they have
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DNA but it's not actually at the crime scene it's just with inside the park yeah so let's take that a step further I
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I believe if I'm going to kind of read between the lines here and try to figure out what what it is that he is saying or
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what it is that he isn't saying uh because these are two very different answers when asked in person he says yes
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we have DNA we just don't know if it belongs to the killer or not keep in mind the questions we're going through
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here today I believe that these questions were submitted to the sheriff and he's able
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to sit down read through them and think very clearly he doesn't have to think on
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the Fly he can pick and choose which ones he's going to answer and that's why I think you get different answers at
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different times when he's interviewed in person he's a little more forthcoming and I think it's because it shows his
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General nature he wants to be a little more transparent he wants his agency to be the the heroes for this community
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this community is in desperate need of a hero or Heroes to find bridge guy and and hold him responsible for this
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terrible act what we have here Captain I I have to look at his words and say okay
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well what what does that mean as far as the DNA goes well it means a few different things to me one the DNA has
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to be of a type that you can immediately go I can't connect this to the killer because
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we've reviewed enough cases that there are certain types of DNA that if found you know the likelihood of
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it belonging to the Killer is like 99 chance right if if we were to find semen in the direct area or of the victims or
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on the victims you would expect that to be from the killer if you found blood that didn't belong to the victims on the
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victims or near the victims you would believe that that came from the killer so I don't think we're talking about
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that type of DNA I think we're probably working with either touch DNA or like you said saliva or DNA that would have
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been transferred to an item that would have been discarded in the area the problem with this doesn't necessarily
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have to be the Searchers themselves that certainly can add to it but this is a this is outdoors this is a public place
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there could be beer bottles or cigarette butts or any type of debris that they could find someone's DNA on they just
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don't know if it's related to that case to to this double homicide was that debris discarded there on the day that
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the victims were killed I think ultimately that's the Crux of this case and the the downfall of this case is
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most cases don't get a spotlight this one did the evidence that they do have they have to keep close to their chest
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but they keep getting the spotlight so they they're trying to give the information out but again they have to
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keep things close to the chest and I think that's because it's getting such a big Spotlight that's what leads to
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rumors conspiracy theories and and a bunch of other stuff the public has been given two sketches is the thought there
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is more than one person involved or is the second sketch the suspected killer please clarify the two sketches this has
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been a point of confusion since the second sketch was released and his answer is these were produced by
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information gained from Witnesses near the area during the time frame the primary focus by investigators is on the
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second sketch Juan Kelsey Libby's sister I think three weeks ago in an interview
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that I was listening to they were asking her about the second sketch she never mentioned that they got it from
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eyewitnesses she said law enforcement told her new technology is the reason why that there was a second sketch and
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what a frustrating thing and maybe a misstep in this investigation to spend two years of your life doing nothing but
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promoting this picture to turn around and and try to go back to those same resources and outlets and say oh by the
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way that picture is not correct here's the one that we want you to present to the public and that's certainly a
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possibility but I want to Echo what what the sheriff is saying here because that's been their stance from Jump
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Street and it's been the The Stance of the sheriff's office as well as the Indiana State Police both agencies have
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always said that the second sketch was based off of witnesses that were near the area during the time frame and
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they're really they're really honing in on the day that the the two girls went missing and that's the information that
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they are very strong on and really looking for more information regarding that day not as much
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the second day the day that the two were found the next question is was video collected throughout Delphi from
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February 13 2017 including video from the building across from the abandoned CPS building multiple pieces of evidence
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including anything technologically based have been gained at least information followed into or brought to the
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attention by the investigators at least information followed into or brought to the attention by the investigators is
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the second part of his answer which seems a little bizarre to me if you can get surveillance footage
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from anywhere surrounding the park the bridge those private properties right any way
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in and out I'm hoping that they didn't just sit back and wait for people to bring that to their attention the
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investigators need to be out pounded on doors pounding the pavement and collecting that information themselves
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they knew by noon or one on the 14th this is a double homicide I I guess maybe he's just giving a
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a PC answer I don't know but it seems a little weird the wording brought to the attention of the
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investigators well again we have zero evidence or zero confirmation that any eyewitness or surveillance was caught of
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a guy covered in blood and I believe this individual would have been covered in blood I think it would
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have been absolutely impossible for him not to be and then I don't really understand this question I'll read it
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though captain and if you uh can figure it out just uh throw something at me and
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and tell me what's up question no matter how distant do you have the man walking
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on the bridge videoed by Libby on any other video okay I see what they're saying now do do we have video
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of him doing anything else or is there any other video of this man I guess walking elsewhere or seen elsewhere his
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answer is this is close to an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond this is
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interesting because we we know his statement of however Bridge guy left the area is all speculation it might be very
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good and very informed speculation but we can't say for certain how he left the area
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if you had other video of this guy of bridge guy on any type of surveillance footage or or anything that's in this
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question here you think that would help them pinpoint that down a little better I I
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have a hard time though believing that there's no other footage of this guy anywhere else
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I I probably would lean more towards the the thought that there is video of this
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dude someplace else they just don't know that it's him like if you have some bad
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distant grainy footage of of random people walking somewhere you might be able to go well he might be in this
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footage but we have six people ten people 18 people in this footage that are all unidentified what
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we do know about the bridge guy picture it's coming from video that Libby took the speculation at first was that it
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didn't come from herb nobody knew that a lot of people thought it came from like
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a trail cam or something so maybe that's also why people are going hey well if if we thought their original picture
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came from a trail cam there must be a bunch of trail cams out there and did one of them pick up and take a picture
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of the murderer well this goes to that same thought why have no other pictures from Libby's
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phone been released to the public and he gives a similar answer this is close to
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an evidentiary information question and I prefer not to respond but again when he's interviewed in person
00:28:59
we get a slightly different answer to a slightly similar question and it was look we have additional video we have
00:29:09
additional audio however there's nothing and I believe his exact words were something like
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there's nothing Earth shattering that would be on there that would help anybody in the public go okay well now I
00:29:24
know who this is I think that Echoes what something we've said before we have to believe that they've provided us with
00:29:31
probably the best portion of that video for us to look at they've probably provided us with the best portion of
00:29:38
that audio for us to hear that's the best chance that the public can help to identify this guy or submit
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the right tip that will lead to an arrest in the Delphi case foreign [Music] [Music]
00:30:20
welcome back cheers mates you always make us feel so welcome there Captain well I just want to go back again it's
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the Crux of the case you asked for a bunch of questions all your answers are going to be well we
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can't share that information I mean again a lot of cases don't get the spotlight that this one's getting I I'm
00:30:43
so happy that four years later we're still talking about it we still care we we still want answers we still want
00:30:51
Justice and people are trying to do everything they can it's it's almost like and here's my other issue you
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collected the questions you sat down and took the time to answer them why not just every question that you're
00:31:07
going to answer is the ones that you put out to the public the ones that you say
00:31:12
well we can't answer that we have it's there's evidence there and we can't release that you don't need to print
00:31:19
that well I think you got to keep in mind we got two different entities at work here we have the the newspaper who
00:31:26
collected all the questions decided which ones would be asked to the sheriff submitted them to the sheriff and then
00:31:32
he's he's answering the questions back to the newspaper and then they're the ones printing them so they would have
00:31:39
had hundreds of these questions if not maybe a thousand or two and they're the ones that are kind of
00:31:47
curating if you will the questions that are submitted to the the sheriff and I think in you know just to be
00:31:54
I mean maybe they're just responsible they're trying to be transparent correct so the next question is why have you
00:32:01
never released the FBI's suspect profile to the public and Toby's answer is it has been discussed with the FBI but
00:32:11
again it is currently felt it is too close to the evidentiary element now we talked earlier about what would I have
00:32:21
done different or you or or anybody else out there this is something I would pivot from I would I would pivot to if
00:32:29
you do have an FBI profile if you if you have one and you think that it's good that needs to be released pivot that
00:32:38
should be released to the public I I well I think the profile might might be more important than the actual sketch
00:32:45
because I think a lot of the sketches coming from that fit that video and that is so grainy that I look the guys down
00:32:54
the hill audio was cleaned up and as an audio engineer I would tell you that clip
00:33:01
is completely dirty and that's cleaned up by people that are connected to the FBI so I think the these sketches
00:33:09
especially after four years have done a lick of good other than maybe create some speculation on the internet if they
00:33:17
would have released the profile with the sketch people would have started eliminating people right away and not
00:33:24
set in as many tips and maybe not sent you on as many wild goose chases are there regrets about not securing the
00:33:32
morning Heights Cemetery as a possible part of the crime scene and then they go on to say I.E possible
00:33:41
exit route of the killer or Killers his answer is at the time it was uncertain exactly what the totality of the
00:33:48
circumstances were yeah I get that and I and I'm on his side they didn't know exactly what they
00:33:55
were dealing with and right it's it's hard to go back in time you can't and and change certain aspects of your
00:34:05
investigation question do investigators believe the bridge photo and voice belong to the
00:34:11
same person and this is a question that keeps good question it's a good question
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it keeps recycling this question over and over again though throughout the the years here and his simple answer is yes
00:34:23
uh we believe the bridge photo and voice belong to the same person right which makes me believe that it's one
00:34:30
perpetrator right and we have Doug Carter from the Indiana State Police who said in the the famous press conference
00:34:40
the two-year press conference he said you know the voices you hear remember before it was just down the hill right
00:34:47
and then it became guys down the hill he specifically said before releasing that
00:34:53
audio that the voice you are hearing is one person the day the girls were found how quickly
00:35:02
were you personally on the scene how quickly was the crime scene secured how many police and emergency response
00:35:09
individuals were physically present at the crime scene what departments were represented at the scene his answer as I
00:35:17
recall a very short amount of time less than an hour by law enforcement immediately I do not
00:35:25
recall without referencing reports mainly Sheriff's Office Indiana State Police and the FBI well I think at one point
00:35:35
there's a statement in the documentary again it's a documentary so it might not be factual but they claimed that there
00:35:42
was at least four crime scene technicians investigating the crime scene and basically saying that there
00:35:50
was tons of evidence that they were able to collect at the crime scene and I can't recall 100 Captain but I think
00:35:58
that the person that gave that statement was from Delphi Police Department or Indiana
00:36:05
State Police it was a member of law enforcement that said that that there were four crime scene technicians on the
00:36:13
scene and that I think he said they worked the scene for about four days all together so a lot of time spent
00:36:21
there and you wouldn't spend that long of time at the crime scene if you weren't continually finding new pieces
00:36:28
of evidence or just pieces of anything really because you don't know what is evidence and what is just it what was
00:36:34
just already there I think that because the murders took place Outdoors because the victims are found outdoors and this
00:36:43
is an area that while very remote where the bodies were found this is also parts
00:36:50
of this area are high traffic as far as foot traffic goes I think that that complicates things and
00:36:56
that that adds to the list of things that you collected during that time when you're when you're trying to piece
00:37:03
everything together what what you do is you collect everything you can possibly find
00:37:08
and then later determine if it if it has anything to do with the crime at all now
00:37:13
when you say high foot traffic areas the bridge well yes I would guess the uh the moon and high Trail
00:37:22
system itself um the bridge maybe but uh yeah the the other side of the bridge is not going to
00:37:30
be have the same level of foot traffic you know and again certainly where the girls were found is not going to have
00:37:37
nearly the amount of foot traffic as you would expect on the trail system itself
00:37:42
yes and and there was also some foot traffic some people instead of taking the trails they would follow the River
00:37:50
Line so there would be some foot traffic along the River Line yeah and the the other issue too becomes that you have
00:38:00
such a big area to cover as far as the crime scene texts go right because we know that at least an
00:38:09
article of clothing was found in the creek itself the bodies were not found in the water so I mean you can and then
00:38:17
the we know that the bridge guy was on the bridge and the victims were on the bridge we know that they were dropped
00:38:22
off at the trailhead and walked the trail system to get to the bridge so you can see if you close your eyes and try
00:38:30
to imagine as you hear the words coming out of my mouth you can see this crime scene just growing and growing and
00:38:36
growing uh very quickly for investigators one we also know that we have a shoe that was found and we know
00:38:43
that her phone wasn't found at the the crime scene so you have to take those pieces of information and triangulate
00:38:53
all of that together where was the phone found that's not clear but it's it's clear that it wasn't like connected to
00:39:01
the the crime scene maybe it was on the other side of the river I'm not really for sure it's just the statement they
00:39:08
made they found the phone because of it pinging off the towers when they found the bodies and when they found the
00:39:14
phones were separate times so that is what leads me to believe that the phone was not in the same location as the
00:39:21
bodies right that's why what I wanted to clarify because the whole place is a crime scene right so it found at the
00:39:28
crime scene just not right with the bodies is what what we believe in the public domain there have been
00:39:35
descriptions of the crime scene descriptions of items found and the positioning of the bodies do you feel
00:39:42
there was an excessive number of persons present once it was determined to be a crime scene I guess there the simplest
00:39:52
form of this question would be were there too many people involved in the search that they have contaminated the
00:39:57
crime scene and once you go from looking for two girls that are alive and well or
00:40:02
or maybe injured or just lost to you now know you have two murder victims how quickly were you able to secure the
00:40:12
scene to make sure that it wasn't trampled all over and his answer is once secured by law enforcement as a crime
00:40:19
scene no I would surmise that Searchers did not immediately know what they had come
00:40:25
upon that's interesting be because when we had the former prosecutor come out and I I think this is a little
00:40:34
irresponsible but whatever I'm irresponsible myself I'm I'm not I'm no saint Captain but when the former
00:40:43
prosecutor came out and said that there were signatures left by the killer at the crime scene and specifically where
00:40:49
the bodies were found and he said that he he would label that as three or four signatures and then
00:40:58
another person from law enforcement asked a very similar question once provided with that information from the
00:41:05
former prosecutor pretty much confirmed that that there would have been about three or four
00:41:10
different signatures now I've seen the public hears this and they go crazy they go crazy trying to figure out what those
00:41:18
signatures could be and of course a lot of people's minds go to something very bizarre that you would
00:41:24
see in some not so great thriller movie out there one of the things that that I saw that was speculated and and maybe
00:41:33
continues to be to this day was that the killer wrote a word or words at several places in the crime scene and
00:41:44
one that gets a little difficult because they're Outdoors so where is he riding this did he bring
00:41:50
things with him to leave leave a note or more specifically I've seen it discussed
00:41:57
that it was one word in particular that was just written over and over again and
00:42:01
to me that seems very very much like a psychological Thriller Velveeta Cheesy type movie thing here
00:42:10
and what we do have though is we have the sheriff who's saying look law enforcement got there as soon as we
00:42:17
could obviously the Searchers found them first but we got there as soon as we could and
00:42:23
as soon as we were there it was a crime scene and it was secured and we pushed everybody out of the area and he goes on
00:42:28
to say that he would surmise that most of the Searchers were not really aware of what they had come upon
00:42:37
the Searchers coming upon two victims and not really understanding what they've come upon kind of contradicts
00:42:45
the idea that there was some kind of display made of the crime scene yeah I think that if if
00:42:52
you they were able to see writing all over the place one one you'd have to if there was writing the obvious spot that
00:43:00
it would be would be on the victims or their clothing because you're outdoor I think it's it's actually very telling
00:43:06
that that whatever these signatures are probably most of the people in that search party would not recognize this
00:43:14
type of stuff to be quote unquote a signature right and like you said there's no
00:43:20
there probably is not some bizarre display going on at the crime scene either if if we're to believe these
00:43:29
words to be fact then what that means to me is that someone probably spotted a body
00:43:37
and then very quickly told people not to I'm going to walk a little bit closer to
00:43:43
confirm that I'm seeing what I think I'm seeing and we're calling it in we're not
00:43:48
we're not venturing into this area well based on the HLN documentary they were saying a Searcher actually spotted them
00:43:55
by zooming in you know like they were looking through their phone and zooming in on the camera so
00:44:04
maybe they spotted him from a distance so they wouldn't be able to see the signatures also if you're around the
00:44:11
creek bed you wouldn't be tall enough to see over the brush to actually see the victims because they're kind of in a dip
00:44:19
correct and often in these search parties you know it's still very early on that they're looking for these girls
00:44:26
they're looking for them on the second day when they're found less than 24 hours after they went missing so you
00:44:33
might have a different speech that is given but often there are you know everyone's instructed usually
00:44:40
in these situations to if you see this then then behave this way if you see this
00:44:47
behave this way and you often especially when they believe that they're looking for a victim or for evidence which is
00:44:57
not what they would have believed at the time they would be instructed to not approach
00:45:02
anything if as a Searcher if you see this do not approach the scene do not approach this
00:45:09
item or this article you have said you recognize the voice on the video this is this is probably the most
00:45:17
scary slash haunting portion of these questions you have said you recognize the voice on the video do you recognize
00:45:25
it as a jail inmate other law enforcement team or person you know outside your employment sphere and
00:45:34
lesson B says I still have not been able to pin it down in my 30 plus year career
00:45:40
or even as with most of us meaning law enforcement we have heard certain voices but have difficulty in recalling exactly
00:45:50
who it is well a couple thoughts right away is when they're asking the parents about what they hear or did they
00:45:56
recognize the voice how they point out how calm the individual is and I never really
00:46:04
thought about the energy that the person was using that this perpetrator was using but when you listen back to it the
00:46:12
energy is very calm and I really like the idea of people pointing out when he says you guys down
00:46:19
the hill it's not a command it's not angry it's very authority figure or parental figure and I think that's
00:46:32
very important when I hear guys down the hill and exactly that the mannerism and
00:46:38
the tone you're right it's very quick and to the point and instructional at the same time
00:46:47
I to me my mind jumps to somebody that's used to directing a group of of children or a group of
00:46:57
young adults and my mind immediately jumps to teacher and I don't know why captain please don't let anybody Stone
00:47:05
me to death in the in the center of town here but my mind jumps to gym teacher I
00:47:10
don't know why that's always like popped in my head of of I think it's really the
00:47:16
tone in the mannerism of something that's kind of a laid back quick to the point in instructional guys down the
00:47:24
hill yeah quick to the point point no fake in cooking them seems like a pound of bacon um I agree with you Jim teacher
00:47:32
look into that aspect but I think you can broaden her your horizons a little bit somebody that might have coached
00:47:40
Little League baseball what I would like to know because the girls were out of school that day and that's why they were
00:47:48
out on the trail to begin with and I do not want emails from people that look we
00:47:53
got a lot of people that are teachers in our audience and our listeners a lot of
00:47:57
them are fantastic teachers I only want to know specifically to that that school system because you know
00:48:05
Captain everything changes from area to area right and even on the calendar year
00:48:11
for a school in particular but for that direct community and that direct school system I would love to know because the
00:48:21
girls were off of school that day were the teachers off as well or was that a day where the teachers would have been
00:48:26
working in some capacity but without students next question the families of the Delphi victims have appeared on
00:48:34
countless shows and internet videos for interviews Libby's grandfather Mike Patty stated he called cop buddies and
00:48:43
asked if they could ping Libby's phone were you or one of your deputies the cop buddies he called some of you will
00:48:52
remember that when the girls were missing Mike Patty at some point I think when we again I'd have to refer to our
00:48:58
old episodes but I think we put this on our timeline like in the six o'clock hour of the day that they were missing
00:49:05
could you could you look into their phones and lesabi's answer is I would suggest he was referring to someone in
00:49:12
law enforcement and it could have been even dispatch initially the ultimate decision was a law enforcement decision
00:49:22
so I think what tobles and be saying here is just because it's a cop buddy doesn't mean that it has to be somebody
00:49:28
at his Department that Mike Patty was reaching out to Libby's grandmother Becky Patty with whom she lived and who
00:49:37
is the mother of her biological father Derek German stated during an interview there were countless cars at the trails
00:49:45
that day not all of them looking for the girls did The Paddy family post on social media the girls were missing
00:49:53
before contacting the Sheriff's Department this is interesting because I would like
00:49:59
to a better answer here it's I do not recall but I know we were not immediately contacted because the family
00:50:05
did not suspect anything negative and we're simply conducting their own search right so you're like me what I'd like to
00:50:14
know and somebody from the community probably could let me know was this information
00:50:19
distributed through Facebook and where people reposting this or sharing this with uh people in the community on
00:50:29
social media from my understanding a couple things happened one I believe that they were on the night news now
00:50:37
some areas that's 11 o'clock or 10 P.M I believe they were on the night time news with hey we got a couple missing
00:50:46
girls and we're still out here looking for them Mike Patty in particular is is interviewed briefly in that statement
00:50:54
that is released to the public via the news I do believe that Mike Patty's family somebody in the family did put
00:51:02
something on Facebook kind of calling to action people to come help look for the
00:51:09
girls so this this would be an easy way to get that information out to all of your friends and family hey if you're
00:51:15
available can you come and help us look for these girls we don't we don't think anything terrible has happened here we
00:51:21
just we know that they were dropped off near the moanin High Bridge and the trail system there we got a lot of
00:51:28
ground to cover it's getting dark it's getting late it's getting cold all hands on deck we need some people to
00:51:34
help us look for these girls so I don't know exactly what was sent out but we have statements by the family that they
00:51:41
were using those methods to try to rally some troops into helping them look and just so we're clear do you remember what
00:51:49
time they found the bodies well it was right around noon the next day and do you know what time
00:51:57
the search started that day on the 14th I believe it was at 6am next question is
00:52:05
who notified Anna Williams that her child Abby was missing and when did that notification take place his answer is I
00:52:13
would have to reference earlier reported information so we don't really get an answer there question it has been stated
00:52:20
in a press conference that quote it was all over by 3 30 on February 13th end quote this statement was based on
00:52:30
what information his answer evidence I do not recall a specific time though but rather a
00:52:38
timeline this is curious to me because it doesn't really answer the question 100 percent it was all over by 3 30 on
00:52:50
February 13th I see our timeline that we've put together and I've seen everything else
00:52:56
that's been brought up in this case and it does in fact look to me like this is very likely the situation that they were
00:53:06
abducted and killed in the same area in a very short period of time we do know from
00:53:14
statements from law enforcement and interviews and the documentary The Bodies were found
00:53:20
less than a quarter a mile away from where the bridge ended has n't determined the girls were killed
00:53:27
where they were found again this is a question that keeps kind of recycling through over the years answer
00:53:34
yes based on information known yes question why did you and the prosecutor choose to
00:53:41
do an interview with headline news HLN yet ISP Indiana State Police said there would not be a press conference this
00:53:51
year again who is leading the case the state police the county sheriff FBI or the County prosecutor you can see the
00:54:00
confusion for the public and the mixed signals so to speak expand on who runs what parts of the investigation who
00:54:09
determines when there's a press conference this is an interesting answer the general sense the leading agency is
00:54:17
the agency who routinely patrols and responds to calls for police services in a given jurisdiction
00:54:25
so in this case in his professional opinion the crime occurred in the county of Carroll County so they are considered
00:54:35
to be the lead agency his Sheriff's Department the state police the FBI the prosecutor's office and the
00:54:43
investigators from the prosecutor's office and other agencies are considered assistant agencies coming on board to
00:54:51
assist the Carroll County Sheriff's Department he does go on to say being a small agency we frequently rely on
00:54:58
larger agencies who have many more resources to help with investigations this is
00:55:04
commonplace throughout the United States smaller agencies will sometimes relinquish an investigation to a larger
00:55:11
assisting agency such as the state police but I feel strongly that since this crime occurred in the county I feel
00:55:19
we are the lead but with many partners additionally when decisions which we feel are major to the case are
00:55:28
being looked at are investigative partners are consulted like a huge Think Tank and we all reach a decision which we all
00:55:37
agree upon next question the public has heard for four years the investigation is one puzzle piece from being solved
00:55:46
what is that one piece specifically is it a name is it John Doe told me he killed the kids or are you looking for
00:55:56
confirmation of what you know John Doe was not at work he has a blue jacket he cut his hair on February 14th or I saw a
00:56:05
guy with a bloody jacket at 4 pm on February 13th at the gas station you are not giving the public a lot to
00:56:14
work with yet no arrest in four years aren't you worried about more victims is the suspect dead or incarcerated so that
00:56:24
is why no press conference or additional information is being released his answer is the person specifically
00:56:31
responsible for Abby and Libby's death our team of trained experienced and professional investigators will know
00:56:40
that one piece when they see it I think that's a very clever answer by Mr lessenby there yeah definitely and I and
00:56:48
I think he's right if they know more than we know and they're working this case as much as they're telling us that
00:56:54
they are that one piece when they have it they'll they'll recognize it immediately and they will act on that
00:57:01
information as soon as it's presented to them I get the feeling that they know who it is or have a good idea of who it
00:57:08
is I think they've got a lot of tips they've ruled I think people out they've had a lot of people that the True Crime
00:57:17
Community has said oh we need to look into this guy this guy just created this murder this guy is a rapist this guy is
00:57:23
a pedo in the area while all their DNA would be on file I believe they have some form of DNA and
00:57:31
it's not matching those people but also these people are not matching the signatures the profile other things I
00:57:39
think they have a small list of people maybe if it's not just one that they're focused on
00:57:45
it's a small list and I think some of them I keep hearing from Kelsey that this will be solved one day and she
00:57:53
said in the last interview I listened to her she said something to the the point
00:57:58
of that this individual will slip up and I also kind of heard that you almost get
00:58:04
that feeling I don't know if it was said directly like that in the documentary but you get that feeling from law
00:58:10
enforcement too and so that makes me wonder if they're like well if it's not one person that they have a small list
00:58:16
of people and they're waiting for something to slip up I think based off of information that we currently have
00:58:24
where we have the sheriff saying we have DNA we just don't know if it belongs to
00:58:29
the killer or not we have fingerprints we don't know if they belong to the killer or not
00:58:34
what that would tell me is that you can't really clear anybody 100 percent unless they have a rock solid Alibi for
00:58:44
the time in question right and based off of evidence there other than than an alibi they're not able to clear some of
00:58:52
these people or potential suspects however you're exactly right Captain what they're going to do even though
00:59:00
they cannot clear a specific person they will prioritize these individuals and they will put some
00:59:08
on a high priority list and some on a lower priority list because the people on the lower priority list they may have
00:59:15
compared things with that individual and things that the crime scene and such and
00:59:21
said you know what we can't clear him but he's not a high priority for us because of a b and c
00:59:29
he doesn't fit exactly what we're looking for because of a b and c maybe it is his DNA doesn't match any that we
00:59:35
found maybe it is that his fingerprints do not match any that were found and even if we don't know if we have either
00:59:42
of these things of the killer we do suspect that we would find this person's fingerprints and or their
00:59:48
DNA at the scene and we don't so we make them a low priority suspect I think the problem with the signatures
00:59:57
is we got to take that and look to it for future evidence because look this this guy let's say he is a
01:00:08
serial killer there's very likely that these might be his first two murder victims he may have committed some other
01:00:15
crimes along the way they usually ramp up to this but if these were his first two murders
01:00:24
then these signatures at the murder scene may not be signatures that would be present at any of the other crimes he
01:00:32
ever committed or thought about committing and so these signatures are more something that we would use for a
01:00:39
future murder that oh if you saw these three or four signatures then law enforcement might believe that it's the
01:00:47
same guy I do like that statement by by them saying those same words that I just
01:00:52
used if if law enforcement recognize these same three or four signatures at a future murder we would
01:00:59
probably recognize immediately that it's the same guy that makes me believe that
01:01:04
these have to be fairly specific signatures yeah now signatures themselves can be very simplistic they
01:01:13
don't have to be these you know crazy wild things it could be something posing the bodies is a signature
01:01:21
okay opposing the bodies could be mean something as little as they face them in the same direction or laid the victims
01:01:30
out so and put their feet together and then their arms over top of their chest it doesn't have to be anything
01:01:36
grandiose like you would see in Hannibal Lecter the TV show it's it could be something as simple as
01:01:44
they were posed in that manner they were both placed face down in the the detectives have determined that this was
01:01:50
they didn't fall that way that he chose to manipulate the crime scene and place them that way and I don't want to get
01:01:57
too much into the signature aspect of it because these are child victims and and I I have
01:02:05
some very strong suspicions of what I believe those signatures to be and maybe we'll talk about that sometime on off
01:02:11
the Record or another show but um the thing I keep going back to Captain is what doug Carter says when
01:02:20
he's speaking directly to the Killer around the two-year anniversary when he says I can promise you
01:02:30
that those two girls are not in the same way that you left them that day meaning I I feel like he manipulated the
01:02:39
crime scene specifically the the victim's bodies in some way and that's Doug Carter and he says that at probably
01:02:46
one of the most emotional parts of his press conference and I think that's his way of saying
01:02:53
whatever image you have of your victims in your head that's burned into your brain of how you left them that day and
01:03:00
the things you chose to do with the victims and the ways that you chose to manipulate the crime scene none of that
01:03:07
exists anymore that those victims are not the same way that you left them they're not your
01:03:12
victims anymore you don't hold any kind of power over over them or whatever degrading
01:03:20
actions you took that no longer exist you've not won we we will find you yeah which is interesting because
01:03:29
they're saying that they're crime was sexual but they're not saying if there was assault or rape we would assume if
01:03:38
there was we'd have some kind of semen DNA but they're saying this is about power
01:03:46
and about control and that was said in the the two-year press conference so by letting them know that this is not your
01:03:55
crime scene anymore you don't have control over this we we gave the victims back the power next question
01:04:03
can you elaborate about your reference to this case as having a Twist that you have never seen before is it something
01:04:12
more than Libby's audio recording and videotaping of their assailant or assailants
01:04:19
and his answer is one of the main twists is that Carroll County has had a high success rate of finding missing persons
01:04:28
for this case to have the initial outcome was nothing we even as seasoned veterans experienced
01:04:38
foreign [Music] thanks so much for joining us here in the garage do not hesitate if you have a
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01:05:01
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