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demand [Music] [Applause] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank
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thanks for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a guy that unlike Drew Brees and Zeke Elliot he
00:02:06
actually had Thanksgiving day off he is the well-rested captain well I actually had a very tough matchup in the CFL
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where I crushed Johnny Manzel but thanks for watching it's good to be seen and it's good to see you thanks for
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listening thanks for telling a [Music] friend this week we are sipping on Clockwork Tanger GRE by Brew dog garage
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Crim garage.com and click on the Donate page that's right ladies and gentlemen boys and girls gather around grab a
00:03:26
chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music] [Music] [Music] with the approaching holiday comes gifts
00:04:02
gifts handed out at work or pass from hand to hand sitting around a Christmas tree gifts wrapped with love and sent
00:04:10
off mailed to an old friend or distant family member and who Among Us does not love a neatly wrapped package complete
00:04:19
with decoration arriving at our homes and address to our name in December of 1996 in Ontario Canada Wayne grette
00:04:30
received a gift unexpectedly the package was neatly prepared delivered to his mailbox and
00:04:39
brought into his home a letter accompanied the package Wayne opened the box with his family surrounding him and
00:04:48
he discovered a large duracel flashlight Inside the Box Wayne took a look at it and tried
00:04:56
the on switch but nothing happened Wayne's son Justin then tried turning the flashlight on but again
00:05:04
nothing happened Wayne grabbed the flashlight from his son and walked over to the sofa
00:05:10
in the family room and sat down he tried the on switch one more time and boom the
00:05:17
flashlight exploded spraying the room with roofing nails shattering the window and knocking Justin and his mother to
00:05:25
the floor Justin got up and ran to the phone and he called 911 Poli fire ambulance my was a bomb on my dad blew
00:05:37
up me there was a bomb and my dad just blew up where about I'm in R1 Mor R1 okay stay on the line stay on the line
00:05:49
oh my God he's blowing up the flashlight bomb killed Wayne Gravette right there in front of his
00:05:56
family who would do something so coward artist to this man and his family was this the work of some type of assassin a
00:06:05
contract killer or simply someone that hated this man so much so that they sent an improvised exploding device through
00:06:13
the Canadian postal service to Wayne's home with the intent to kill this is the tragic story of Wayne
00:06:22
Gravette and the bomb that took his life [Music] Wayne was born on January 4th 1954 in
00:06:46
Ontario Canada now there's not a great amount of detail that is known about his early life but we do know Wayne started
00:06:54
working for the 7Up Bottling Company when he was just 18 he became an an expert in the mechanical side of the
00:07:01
bottling industry fixing and installing Machinery conveyor belts and assembly line equipment from there Wayne moved on
00:07:10
to Surge packaging and Machinery a company located in Acton onario the company sold installed and repaired
00:07:18
equipment for bottling businesses in both Canada and the US so this is a very large company Wayne worked there for
00:07:27
many years but was no longer with Serge when he was murdered now regarding his personal life Wayne met Diane when they
00:07:36
were young she was just 15 and he was 19 Diane's home life wasn't great and as Diane puts it Wayne got her out of a bad
00:07:45
situation so the two moved in together when Diane was just 16 and they got married the following year they ended up
00:07:52
having two kids Danielle and Justin Wayne's wife and kids tell the story of a man who was a great father he loved
00:08:01
his kids and Diane and Wayne seemed to embrace a secluded lifestyle Diane says they had a few friends and the rest of
00:08:09
the people in their lives were business acquaintances Diane says Wayne was controlling and domineering but she
00:08:16
loved him very much the two were a team but Wayne while an adoring father on the
00:08:22
home front he was abrasive and confrontational at times when it came to business Diane said quote Wayne was
00:08:29
mouthy and cocky end quote detective Paul Johnson says Wayne was the kind of person who told people what he thought
00:08:36
and he had altercations with several people Wayne was also a man's man he wrote a Harley and played poker the few
00:08:44
friends he did have were mostly hard drinking Blue Collar buddies that he met in the bottling industry Diane says
00:08:51
Wayne was away a lot for work and sometimes did not come home at night after drinking with the guys and he was
00:08:58
not the best husband he had affairs and Diane says they had fights sometimes bad ones he hadn't he
00:09:06
had a temper but she loved him he loved her and they were a family both Wayne and Diane were employees of Serge for
00:09:14
quite a while but in 1993 Wayne had a falling out with and left the company so Wayne and Diane started up his own
00:09:22
bottling equipment company a secretary Lisa from surge came to work with them they named the DNL after Diane and Lisa
00:09:32
this was depending on who you talk to Captain there's mixed reviews on this company so most of the reviews on this
00:09:40
seem like it was a fairly successful company while I have found others that state that the company had problems that
00:09:47
they were never really making a whole bunch of money and were having trouble staying afloat well there's also a lot
00:09:52
of rumors that he was taking jobs and taking payments for jobs and never completing them that he might might have
00:09:59
been conducting bad business right let's say in 1996 the gravettes bought a 104 Acre Farm in Moffet Ontario at this time
00:10:10
DNL wasn't doing very well this property has a natural spring large enough that they could use the spring as a source
00:10:18
for a bottled water business with Wayne's expertise and access to bottling equipment and supplies they decided to
00:10:26
make a go for it they moved to the farm sometime around June of 96 and apparently they loved it there Wayne set
00:10:34
up a shop in the barn and started bottling and selling water now let's talk about the events of December 12th
00:10:42
1996 the farm is in mafit this area is about 35 miles from Toronto but while Toronto is a huge city mfet is quite
00:10:53
rural the farm had a long dirt driveway and a mailbox at the end of this drive driveway for the family's mail Diane and
00:11:01
Wayne's 21-year-old son Justin was home on the farm that day his sister Danielle
00:11:07
was not she was out with a boyfriend Justin went out around midday to get diesel fuel for one of the vehicles and
00:11:15
on his way out he stopped at the mailbox there he found a package wrapped in white paper decorated with ribbon and
00:11:22
address to Mr Wayne grette RR number one Moffet Ontario Lop 1j0 Justin put the package in his
00:11:33
vehicle drove to town got gas and returned home when he returned his dad was in the barn eventually Wayne joined
00:11:41
the rest of the family in the house around 1: p.m. along with Justin and Diane there was also Wayne's brother I
00:11:48
couldn't find the name of Wayne's brother standing in the kitchen Wayne opened the package the first thing he
00:11:55
saw was an envelope that said Merry Christmas Wayne perused the letter it was a business
00:12:03
proposal Inside the Box were crumpled up flyers from various advertisers placed Inside the Box this was used as likely
00:12:12
padding right after removing the papers Wayne pulled out a large Duracell flashlight so this is a bulky flashlight
00:12:19
with a handle on it yeah and we'll post all these pictures on our Instagram at True Crime garage Dwayne flicked on the
00:12:26
power switch but nothing happened so Justin took the flashlight and tried the button as well but the light did not
00:12:32
come on he tried to open up the battery compartment but couldn't it seemed like it was glued or fastened shut Wayne took
00:12:40
the flashlight back moving into the family room and sitting down on the sofa he then tried the switch again and the
00:12:46
room exploded they called 911 immediately after the explosion you heard a portion of that call during our
00:12:54
trailer the trauma and fear in Diane's voice is palpable she's she's screaming the flashlight was a cleverly disguised
00:13:02
bomb the interior of the flashlight was filled with explosives that were sparked
00:13:07
by the activation of the on switch packed around the explosives were a large number of roofing nails the nails
00:13:15
did exactly what they were intended to do they sprayed Wayne in the area around him the front of Wayne's body including
00:13:23
his face basically blew up blood sprayed all over the walls Windows shattered Nails flew through the drywall and into
00:13:31
other rooms even embedding in the ceiling yeah he basically lost everything from his face down to his
00:13:38
thighs I hate to paint this unfortunate picture but you have to picture for a second the man sitting there on the sofa
00:13:47
the flashlight basically in his lap and he's looking down at the flashlight when
00:13:53
this bomb goes off so he absorbed almost all of the blast according to investigators he died
00:14:01
instantly let's talk about the investigation Captain so when the police arrived they found the family room
00:14:08
covered in debris broken furniture and glass were everywhere Wayne's body was still lying on the couch now covered
00:14:15
with a blanket and his family was in hysterics the Ontario Police they closed off the scene and sent the family
00:14:24
Elsewhere for questioning detective Paul Johnson of the homicide unit was put in
00:14:29
charge of the investigation processing the scene took several days police gathered the names
00:14:36
of business associates and colleagues of Wayne's and started looking through his
00:14:40
business banking travel and phone records and the package that was holding the bomb it was confirmed that was
00:14:47
delivered through the mail but also the box was a wine box as well right mhm yeah the mail carrier her name is Joyce
00:14:54
said that her and her daughter and small grandson were in her her mail truck that
00:15:00
day helping with packages and deliveries on her route she remembered the package
00:15:04
to Wayne because of a pretty ribbon that was on this package she also noted that
00:15:09
the package fitted it fit exactly into the mailbox Joyce was still out on her route when she heard the sirens but she
00:15:19
didn't discover what had actually happened until the following day when she arrived at the post office which was
00:15:24
now crawling with cops okay so captain what kind of evidence can we collect from the packaging first it had a large
00:15:33
number of stamps on it amounting to extra postage so it would appear that someone wanted to make sure that this
00:15:40
wouldn't get returned that they put more than enough to guarantee that it would be delivered of course you're not going
00:15:46
to want a package that's a bomb to be returned to you well and unfortunately no DNA was found on the stamps or the
00:15:53
packaging well also something with the packaging the box that it held in like I said was was wine so you wonder he's in
00:16:01
the Distributing business is there somebody that distributes wine that would have access to this box to put the
00:16:08
bomb in well this is a red and cream colored cardboard box from a cheap brand of red wine a a Cabernet uh the box is
00:16:18
sort of Flowery with a vase and red blooms on it yeah but I believe there's some numbers that are scratched off the
00:16:25
box to kind of hide the identity of where the box came from or where this wine would come from well I don't know
00:16:32
about scratched off but the the UPC number or the barcode that would be on the box uh which could have likely told
00:16:40
us where the wine was purchased or maybe even to whom it was sold this was cut off okay uh it had been removed from the
00:16:48
box so this perpetrator was was smart enough to take the effort to do this uh police would ultimately comb through the
00:16:56
purchase history records of all of the liquor stores in the area close to the gretes farm to try to determine who
00:17:03
bought this wine but they came up with nothing so well this well this also makes it a lot more difficult too
00:17:10
because since it's mailed you got to figure out how far away was this mailed from right and you know here's another
00:17:19
thought here though too Captain this box simply could have been from a recycling
00:17:23
bin or trash bin rather than a purchase right uh making it even less Trace if not traceable you know not traceable at
00:17:31
all well and I wonder if there's some thing where if you cut off uh the UPC or whatever if there was some like collect
00:17:38
your upcs and you get free wine or whatever so like you said could have been found in the trash or found in a
00:17:45
recycling bin and it was the actual owner of the box that cut off the UPC and not some clever way to disguise
00:17:52
where it came from possible possible I think it I think it shows the um thorough of the person that mailed the
00:18:00
bomb they did find two hairs under the packaging tape but no root on them and even after mitochondrial DNA testing was
00:18:09
conducted by the FBI no DNA profile was able to be put together investigators theorized that the per deliberately
00:18:17
avoided licking the stamps uh and used excess number of stamps to ensure delivery and stamped it themselves to
00:18:25
avoid taking the package to the post office so putting this into a mailbox and then having it delivered by the
00:18:33
postal service so they could remain anonymous and the package was wrapped in inside out Christmas paper meaning that
00:18:41
the decoration part was facing the box and not to the people opening the box yeah so it's it's hunter green in color
00:18:50
but the white part of the paper is on the outside of the package is what's visible and the address was typed so
00:18:58
now on the inside of that box we talked about the flyers that were crumpled up and used likely for padding yeah these
00:19:06
advertisements yeah so these are crumpled up and they're packed around the flashlight these came from a wide
00:19:13
distribution area in Southern Ontario but one one of these advertisements came from Copeland lumber at 700 Main Street
00:19:22
in nearby Milton and it was only distributed locally yeah but let's Ponder this for a minute is this a
00:19:29
mistake is this a mistake by the person sending the bomb or we're dealing with people that do packaging right and and
00:19:39
they do a lot of traveling was this deliberate like I could grab the ads from here I'll package the bomb I'll
00:19:47
mail it from somewhere else and that will throw them off could be so the situation here though is if somebody's
00:19:55
just grabbing them uh you know if they're grabbing a bunch of them a big stack of these this is this is the
00:20:04
thought that the majority of that stack would be advertisements from all over the place and then we have this one in
00:20:10
the batch that was only distributed in a very small location so it would mean that this
00:20:17
person had some kind of could have had some kind of connection to this nearby town of Milton right but what I'm saying
00:20:25
is this is a business where people travel often so all I'm saying is if you don't live in Milton but you travel
00:20:32
there let's say every two weeks pick up some ads while you're there what do you mean this is a business where we travel
00:20:39
often Wayne is in the business where they right our victim our victim is in the business of traveling often we don't
00:20:45
know who sent this bomb or or what business the Killer is in right but I right but my point is is that that if
00:20:53
you look at the suspects as far as business-wise goes he they're in the same business as Wayne one thing I've
00:21:00
wondered about and I would wager or at least hope that they did look at this Captain is that you know checking
00:21:06
Cumberland Lumber checking that business to try to determine if the nails or even
00:21:12
the flashlight were purchased there right and we should note that Wayne did work in the town of Milton for many
00:21:20
years at uh several companies but I believe that is exactly where that large company surge is located as well right
00:21:28
to me like I said to me it's it's deliberate or it's a mistake and my gut filling thinks this is a mistake me too
00:21:37
because we have one out of many uh that were placed in that and only one the other thing I wonder too well then we'll
00:21:45
Agree to Agree well but the other the other part of that though too is I would think that the individual using this is
00:21:52
padding likely might not know about the distribution or circulation of these fers yeah that's a very good point um
00:22:00
the flashlight of course was obliterated in the blast but it was determined to be
00:22:04
a gray plastic duracel floating Lantern about 23 cm long and 15 C cm tall they call it a lantern because it doesn't
00:22:14
look like a lantern to me it just looks like a big flashlight it was packed with
00:22:20
plastic explosives uh a blasting cap and the nails uh that we talked about so turning it into a powerful concentrated
00:22:28
bomb containing super Frack this is an explosive used in the mining industry for breaking apart rocks or or large
00:22:38
rock this is not a bomb that would go off if you hit it with a hammer or dropped it it requires a trigger which
00:22:46
is why it was wired to the on switch police determined the super Frack was readily available within the mining
00:22:54
industry it could have been purchased through a manufacturer or stolen from a gravel pit or any distributor so I don't
00:23:02
think they were able to track down the source of this explosive now there is debate about the experience level needed
00:23:10
to construct the bomb most investigators uh think that someone could have learned how to put this
00:23:19
together from the Internet or a magazine or a book right so let's talk about the
00:23:25
letter because inside uh a along with the flashlight bomb was this envelope and inside was a letter on the envelope
00:23:34
was handwritten label of Merry Christmas um it's a typed letter inside on simple 8 1/2 by 11 sheet of white
00:23:43
paper yeah how about you start by just reading it straight through okay it says Mr Wayne Gravette Dear Sir my partners
00:23:52
and I are opening a new business sometime early in the new year called act and Home Products
00:23:58
and would be very interested in having you give us a price on rebuilding some equipment you did some work for a
00:24:05
company I was with a few years ago and although you won't remember me Lisa and your delivery man Joe most likely will
00:24:14
we don't plan on doing anything until after the New Year but would be most anxious to proceed at that time we have
00:24:21
no staff or office in place just yet but you can reach us by mail at our new address below thanks for your time and
00:24:30
I'll look forward to hearing from you sometime early in the New Year sincerely William J French acting Home Products RR
00:24:41
number one unit number six Acton Ontario l7g 2n1 PS didn't realize you had moved had
00:24:53
some trouble finding you have a very Merry Christmas and may you never have to buy another
00:25:06
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information [Music] all right we're back cheers mates cheers now the letter that we just discussed it
00:29:41
was left intact after the blast that's why we know what it said right and there were no fingerprints found on it it was
00:29:49
typed on a Smith Corona electric typewriter which from what I've read is a fairly common
00:29:56
typewriter it would not be easy to identify this as it's too common right well this is also for home use and
00:30:05
office use but the font in the letters was significant yeah the the letter was typed in all caps and experts identified
00:30:15
it as script 1012 font this is not an all business font like you know like Times New Roman
00:30:25
or something like this this is more like a a yeah it's almost like a handwritten
00:30:31
font yes the font was created by inserting a daisy wheel essentially a round disc with letters numbers and
00:30:39
symbols on spokes into the typewriter experts were able to tell police that this Daisy wheel was sold under the
00:30:46
model number 59543 police were optimistic about this Daisy wheel for two reasons one
00:30:54
according to statistics at the time only 2% of people who had this kind of typewriter owned that particular type of
00:31:02
Daisy wheel right two police saw that it contains what appears to be an imperfection in the periods in the
00:31:10
letter so each period is followed by a small slash so it kind of like resembles a
00:31:18
comma this flaw is likely specific to this single one Daisy wheel right so if the writer of the letter use this Daisy
00:31:28
wheel in any other correspondence it it should be able to be identified because it would have the same imperfection now
00:31:36
here here's some some tricky things okay so when you buy like this model of the Smith and Corona right that you can buy
00:31:45
extra Daisy wheels so where it gets a little more complicated is this could have been I
00:31:53
mean they would had to have some knowledge of their electric type writer but uh let's say their original font was
00:32:01
you know Times New Roman right M and they used that for everything but for this one they used just that Daisy wheel
00:32:09
just for this letter that's where it could be a little more complex as far as if they never typed anybody else a
00:32:15
letter using this Daisy wheel then yeah yeah yeah if they were smart enough to just use it this one time and then toss
00:32:23
it yeah CU When you go to buy these back in the day you you would have the option
00:32:29
like it'd be like okay I'll take this you know electric typewriter and then the person would go but you can have all
00:32:35
these different fonts and so people would buy extra Daisy Wheels I wonder if you could buy them anytime like if you
00:32:44
don't have to buy it when you're making the purchase of the typewriter I would think you could buy it at any time I'm
00:32:49
I'm assuming you can and then they're just looking at the straight up statistics of sales and going okay well
00:32:54
x x number of people own the this typewriter or X number of these typewriters have been sold and then X
00:33:01
number of these Daisy Wheels have been sold throughout the year so somebody essentially could have went somewhere
00:33:07
and purchased it with cash right um and not with the actual typewriter and like you said using it once if you were smart
00:33:16
enough or sneaky enough to use it only that one time and then toss it um see I this to me is is the essence of a lot of
00:33:27
these cases that we discuss you have something here that you're like holy crap that's it that's should be
00:33:34
everything that's the thing we've been looking for this is what we can tie our rope to and where we can find our
00:33:39
perpetrator and then at some point you go it just didn't get us there it just didn't get us there could be everything
00:33:47
or it could be nothing yeah I mean for example it's typed in all caps right mhm so law enforcement says said hey well do
00:33:58
we know anybody that you know worked with Wayne or or knew Wayne that just typed this way that threw on all caps
00:34:07
and that's how they sent letters mhm again was this something they did on purpose or was this machine for whatever
00:34:16
reason was the Cap's lock broke and they had to type this way right was was this
00:34:22
something that was deliberate or just a happen stance yes so police did they parsed through all of Wayne's
00:34:30
correspondents and they did ask everyone in the area who conducted business with
00:34:34
Wayne or within the bottling industry to examine their correspondents to look for
00:34:40
this abnor abnormality uh but nothing came of this could the killer have been you know
00:34:46
smart enough to just use it once that's the thing that we we'll never be able to wrap our heads around
00:34:53
until this case is solved now the letter was signed using the name William J French of course there was no such
00:35:01
person and acting Home Products the company name also did not exist the address RR number one unit number six in
00:35:11
Acton also was not a business address it actually was a postal code for a residence now I don't know who lived
00:35:20
there um who lived at this address but it's very safe to say I'm assuming that the op P yeah you know me the police
00:35:29
checked out the resident thoroughly mhm we just don't know whether the killer selected this address at random or if it
00:35:39
holds again if it means anything does it hold any significance yeah and see I wonder if the Acton Home
00:35:48
Products was okay like the first part of the letter right was that set up to let Wayne know who this is coming
00:36:01
from you see what I mean oh yeah like what were the clues because at one point he they also said uh something about uh
00:36:11
Lisa and Joe Lisa Lisa being uh Wayne's basically secretary and business lady and then Joe was a delivery guy they
00:36:22
would know us but you probably don't remember us yeah they the and Lisa might remember me or remember us yeah and I
00:36:30
wonder if that was like a hint at uh you might be having a hard time placing who's sending you this letter but that's
00:36:40
because we gave you money so Lisa knows us and Joe Knows us but you never came to do the job MH I wonder if that's some
00:36:50
some kind of clue there yeah or is it a taunt right and what I mean by that is is a couple
00:36:57
things and and here it's such a petty thing to do because if your intent is to instantaneously blow this guy up then
00:37:08
then it's what is the taunt I don't understand because you're you're cluing him in that so and so might know me or
00:37:15
know us right but then you're signing this with a fictitious name so immediately Wayne if he made it to the
00:37:22
end of the letter is going to go I don't know William J French and we know he wouldn't know that because it's not a
00:37:27
real person well he was a real person we have just no clue if if Wayne knew of this guy if you look up William J French
00:37:37
all it comes to or all I could find is a grave site that was buried he was buried
00:37:42
in Toronto right and someone that passed away well before this incident right so
00:37:48
we we could assume I mean way way before the bombing we could assume that he doesn't know him but is it like some
00:37:55
kind of Clue because if you're sending this bomb it's almost like you sent this letter to get
00:38:01
this message across to Wayne so what in this letter would be a clue for Wayne to
00:38:07
go oh [ __ ] I know who sent this and that's what I mean if it's a taunt it's like a super it's super Petty is what I
00:38:15
mean by this because of a couple of reasons if Wayne reads this letter you know first of all the the
00:38:23
killer the person sending it he's sending it with the intention that will read it if he wants if he wants to taunt
00:38:28
him before killing him but then the thought then too is well what kind of taunt is this if if your thought your
00:38:35
plan your hopes are that he reads it and then he flips on the switch and boom the
00:38:41
flashlight explodes then the taunt is is kind of lost you know what I mean it's almost like if you set out to taunt
00:38:50
Wayne before you kill him I guess are you hoping to that you put just enough in this letter that somebody's name or
00:39:01
face is going to pop into his mind before he turns on the flashlight right you know and because the old [ __ ] I know
00:39:09
this who this Letter's from is not necessarily an old [ __ ] moment because you don't know that the flashlights a
00:39:16
bomb yet you know what I mean like um unless you have some severely bad blood with this individual now of course we
00:39:25
know that it's a bomb so you would think there was some bad blood there but sometimes bad blood is one-sided yeah
00:39:30
where it's like uh I hate you you don't even know I hate you yet there are some interesting things in the letter though
00:39:37
because we have we have a couple of things right so it is addressed specifically to Wayne so this is not uh
00:39:46
we know he is the intended target of the bomb it's not just some random act you know we also know that the the killer
00:39:53
knew enough about Wayne to know what kind of business he was in and that he had recently moved you know and that he
00:40:01
knew employees of Wayne's right and the police believe that that it's likely that the killer was not someone who was
00:40:09
close to Wayne at the time of his death because whoever sent the bomb didn't seem to know Wayne's new address now the
00:40:18
thought here is that this seems likely because one thing that was uncovered was that two men were seen at the Acton
00:40:26
Ontario branch of the post office about a month earlier one man went inside the post office and inquired about where
00:40:34
Wayne lived and oddly the other man asked people outside of the post office this is a a small town so it's not I
00:40:44
guess that strange to ask strangers where someone lives but in order to send something through the mail in Canada you
00:40:51
need the exact postal code for the address and there are over 800 55,000 different postal codes in Canada
00:41:01
yeah well that's compared to the US uh where we have like 42,000 is zip codes yeah well again it's like there's these
00:41:10
like little things that make you think that this is like a clue to him for example um had a hard time finding you
00:41:19
right because of the new address and there was these reports that he was getting phone calls and and Wayne was
00:41:25
telling people hey uh just tell him I'm not here so again was this a situation where he promised to do a job took
00:41:33
payment for a job and he took off and went missing and and then that that person had to track him down to even
00:41:41
figure out where he was at yeah so the the gravettes moved from Acton away to the farm in mafa in June of 1996 this is
00:41:50
19 km away so you have to wonder there they the gravettes once lived in act and these two men were seen at the Acton
00:42:00
Ontario Branch so did these two men assume that Wayne still lived in Acton or never knew his address and only knew
00:42:09
that he lived in that town right so sketches were made of the two men but they have not been able to identify them
00:42:15
so the sketches have led to really nothing I'm sure like we know with most cases a lot of times when you have a
00:42:22
sketch thrown out there that the police end up getting receive and receiving a lot of lookalike calls right hey I know
00:42:29
so and so and you should talk to him well how's he connected to the case well he looks like the guy yeah and then they
00:42:35
look at the guy they talk to him and find out he has absolutely no connection to anything who knows how reliable the
00:42:42
sketches are in the first place you have to wonder because these are composite sketches made using eyewitnesses who had
00:42:49
an unremarkable conversation or conversations with two people inquiring about an address a month before the
00:42:56
happened right all right back to the letter the writer actually knew Wayne's business fairly well and I say this
00:43:05
because in the letter naming Lisa and Joe So Lisa Irvin was the secretary from from surge you had already mentioned her
00:43:14
but she was from The Surge company and she ultimately left the company and started DNL with him and his wife Diane
00:43:22
like I said even though I think the title was more secretary I think knew the books and knew the business very
00:43:28
well oh yeah the interesting thing here though too Captain is Lisa's name is actually spelled
00:43:35
leesa yeah so we don't know if the letter writer actually didn't know this and what I mean by that because in the
00:43:42
letter it's spelled l IA you know the more common way I actually never had seen the name Lisa
00:43:49
spelled l EA is it l l e EA or is it l e e z a or something weird I thought well
00:43:59
I I have her name as as technically being spelled l EA and in the letter it spelled the more common spelling of L
00:44:08
IA so that makes you wonder a couple of things yeah yeah say that you have that right sorry what it doesn't make you
00:44:16
wonder it doesn't there's no way that somebody just has just connects that unless they know that specifically about
00:44:24
Wayne or his company you don't just randomly pick two names and they actually had something to do
00:44:30
with one of his companies and the crazy thing though is if I had only heard that name out loud
00:44:38
you know only heard that name spoken never seen it written never seen it yeah yeah then that's how I'm going to spell
00:44:45
it in my taunting letter that I'm sending along with my bomb right and then the thing with Joe there he was
00:44:52
actually uh joseppi zatic zachik I yeah I think he's technically the delivery driver it sounds like he held several
00:45:02
different roles with this company but but mostly was a delivery man and he did go by Joe so again you have to wonder
00:45:11
like is this just a red herring designed to throw investigators onto the scent of
00:45:16
a a business associate you know someone that would have heard these names aloud Joe Lisa or is this somebody that was
00:45:24
even tighter with Wayne and actually knew these people a little bit you okay this let's just Ponder this for a minute
00:45:32
and try to help me you help me right why send a letter at all it's it's almost like the only point of sending
00:45:43
the letter is to get it into Wayne's head you know who sent this or you send a letter cuz this has nothing to do with
00:45:54
business but you know when Wayne enough where you can make it seem like oh well Wayne would take money for jobs and not
00:46:04
do them and we we have a history of that so if I make this seem like it's connected to Wayne's business then
00:46:11
they're not going to look at me because this is a personal matter so I I went through some old uh bombing cases that
00:46:19
were later solved and trying to add some psychology to even the packaging and you
00:46:26
know this letter of course you know a lot of times when when people will attach a note to a bomb there have most
00:46:35
of the time it's almost an assumption by the creator of the bomb that the the letter or the note will be destroyed in
00:46:41
the blast and that no one will ever have read that letter other than the Target right but see here I kind of I'm kind of
00:46:51
more with you I think I think with what you're saying here is is just to throw them off the scent I don't know I don't
00:46:59
know either but I think that that might be the case and what I mean by that is that I see actions being taken with the
00:47:09
the packaging of this bomb that indicate to me that they didn't whoever packaged
00:47:15
this up you know like the removal of the barcode the zip of the uh UPC symbol that shows to me that they didn't intend
00:47:22
for the packaging to blow up with the bomb or be destroyed in the blast that they took precautions that they thought
00:47:29
that the packaging would likely survive the blast so therefore think about this way I mean I kind of carry that over to
00:47:36
the letter as well like assuming that the letter would survive the blast right and you'd think though with a gift most
00:47:44
the time when you grab it maybe you don't turn it on right away I mean that's that's the other thing too it
00:47:49
wasn't like this um the trigger wasn't Once you pull it out of the box it blows up it was you have to turn this on so I
00:47:59
mean you don't know this what if he was like I know how a flashlight works I don't need to test it you know what I
00:48:07
mean right like so he just puts it over to the side so again that's a tough thing cuz yes
00:48:14
you would think most bombers would assume if I write a little note it's on the package it blows up the notes going
00:48:20
to blow up too but uh in this case it's like because the trigger is turning it on who knows where that package is going
00:48:28
to be once the the bomb is away from that package well and that's that's something makes any sense no I I see
00:48:36
what you're saying what B essentially what you're saying is this okay if if I'm killing someone if I'm going to go
00:48:43
out and kill someone if I if I'm looking at them through across a field through the scope of a rifle yes even if there
00:48:51
are people around them I could put them in the crosshairs and choose that that's
00:48:55
the individual that I'm going to shoot at when you send a bomb a flashlight bomb that is triggered through the
00:49:02
action of the on switch through the mail you are then hoping that your target is
00:49:08
the one that flicks that switch and ignites the bomb yeah cuz if I'm if I'm not wrong I believe his son said that he
00:49:15
tried to turn it on his son did try to turn it on and we also noted that his wife and his brother were in the room
00:49:23
with him or in a nearby room when the when the flashlight exploded so it's almost here here's what I wonder is the
00:49:32
letter itself not a taunt is it is it in some way meant to throw them on the scent of somebody else I don't know I
00:49:40
actually lean toward the thought of this if I'm the killer I'm thinking the the letter will survive the blast the
00:49:48
packaging survives the blast but the purpose of my letter is to increase the likelihood that Wayne is the one that f
00:49:55
the switch and not someone that is just an innocent bystander interesting what I mean by
00:50:02
that he he says things that are familiar to Wayne to to drop his guard to let his
00:50:07
guard down and go I mean you can almost picture it in your head where he's reading it's an unexpected package right
00:50:14
we have heard rumors that people thought that Wayne might have been paranoid uh about one thing or another so what if
00:50:21
this letter accompanied this thing just for the sole purpose of increasing the likelihood that the target flicks the
00:50:27
switch and you can picture him reading the letter and identifi you know recognizing the names in it oh you did
00:50:33
business with me before picking up the flashlight with his other hand and just flicking the switch and boom yeah yeah
00:50:39
yeah and that's also the length of the letter how it's a little bit longer than it you know really needs to be is that
00:50:47
so he's you know reading with one hand and just messing with the you know flashlight and then flips it on yeah and
00:50:54
and I think a lot lot of this too is the uh you know the PS didn't realize you had moved had some trouble finding you I
00:51:03
don't know it have a very Merry Christmas and may you never have to buy another flashlight there that to me is
00:51:10
the is the taunt kind of at the end I don't know that if there was any intention for this letter to make Wayne
00:51:18
picture somebody or think of someone before he ended up being killed I don't think that that was actually the purpose
00:51:26
of this okay a couple questions for you I'll start off with do you think the letter was to get his attention or do
00:51:33
you think it's a decoy what's Your Gut telling you again I really ultim or maybe it's not telling you anything I
00:51:40
ultimately think that it was the sole purpose of the letter was to increase the chances that Wayne would be the one
00:51:47
to flick the switch of the power switch to to ignite the bomb causing it to explode hoping that he would be by
00:51:54
himself and and part of that is the psychology behind um who would have sent this the perpetrator that okay so the
00:52:04
police believe that this individual would have held a deep-seated grudge or deep-seated hatred for Wayne right and
00:52:13
then here's the other thought though too if they are correct now this is not a 100% etched in stone statement by the
00:52:21
police but they did they did say in an interview that look we actually believe that it it's more likely that the
00:52:30
individual wasn't close to Wayne in the months leading up to his death because we think that there are actions made to
00:52:40
lead us to believe that they believe that Wayne still lived in Acton and didn't live at this Farm in in Moffet so
00:52:48
their thought is if they are right about this that if this means that something happened between this IND individual and
00:52:56
Wayne months before before the actual death because he moved almost 6 months before the bomb
00:53:04
was sent to the house so somebody had a grudge against him and they were patient
00:53:09
enough to sit on this Grudge for at least months could have been years right so and then on top of that police
00:53:17
profiled the sender of the letter and and stated that the person likely had a deep-seated hatred for Wayne but also
00:53:23
wasn't comfortable with conf ation and preferred to retaliate from a distance now that goes along with just about most
00:53:33
every other bomber case that we've ever seen that's the psychology Behind These bombers the thought is that it on the
00:53:41
Spectrum on ways to attack and kill another individual that sending a bomb to someone especially through the male is
00:53:51
one of the most cowardice ways to to attack and kill them and what they mean by that is just the the actual
00:54:00
Simplicity of it's not upfront and close in your face this is not someone looking
00:54:06
you in the eyes and choking you to death or stabbing you to death or even shooting you from a distance so you're
00:54:14
saying the Cowardly Lion is still a suspect what I'm saying is that this individual is probably not comfortable
00:54:22
with some kind of physical confrontation with Wayne or likely with anyone okay so
00:54:28
the the next question then would be do you think this is coming from male or female typically if you're going to play
00:54:38
the numbers game typically um males are bombers um well if you play the numbers games males are murderers and and and
00:54:48
Shooters and and mass explosions and terrorists more so than females are right but but I mean when you're talking
00:54:56
about this specific type of attack that's typically a male uh more times than not it's committed by a male where
00:55:04
like so on the same spectrum of being a coward um typically you would see like with poisonings that's often conducted
00:55:14
by a female right and there's a little more poisonings are a little more sadistic in the sense that a lot of
00:55:22
times with with uh poisoning a usually comes from a woman that is close to the individual because what we find in the
00:55:29
long run is they prefer to watch the individual suffer evil well they prefer to watch
00:55:38
the individual suffer where think about the person mailing the bomb their whole intent is to kill they're not they're
00:55:44
they're they have no intention they have no intention of watching the person suffer or watching the person die right
00:55:50
because they they mail the bomb that's the now is that right all of the time 100% time no you know like I like I was
00:55:57
talking to somebody the other day and they were saying well you know it's it's never this until it is this one time
00:56:06
that it is this so but playing the numbers game it it would be a male who is coward who who's a coward that
00:56:15
decided to mail and the other thing too that's that's the recklessness of it right is that knowing that I'm going to
00:56:23
send this thing that could EXP explode and kill someone else I'm not directing the bullet I'm not steering the
00:56:29
bullet I'm sending this this this murderous weapon this murderous item out into out into the universe hoping that
00:56:39
it reaches my target right and we and we also heard from his family stating that
00:56:43
Wayne was gone a lot traveling so you almost again like you were going back to your point this kind of just
00:56:53
popped up into my head with him traveling so much that what if his wife opened the letter and then she read it
00:57:00
and was like oh well this is not for me right I'm not going to explore this package anymore right and then we do
00:57:06
have his name on the outside of the package that's another preventative measure to hope that Wayne's the only
00:57:12
one that opens it up furthermore the thing here too is as the police and investigators stated the these are not
00:57:19
explosives this thing was not constructed in a manner that you could slam it against a table hit it with a
00:57:25
hammer toss it out a window and it will explode it was constructed this device was constructed in a manner that it has
00:57:33
to be triggered by the on switch of the flashlight therefore again really pinpointing your target I mean we had
00:57:42
the mail carrier who drove around with this thing for half a day in her in her vehicle along with her uh son or
00:57:51
daughter or grandson in the vehicle with her and then we have Wayne's son Justin
00:57:56
who picks it up he's actually the one that picked it up at the mailbox right he puts it in his vehicle drives into
00:58:01
town to get gas and then brings it back to the house so you have all these instances where it could have blown
00:58:08
someone else up the other thing that's crazy too is that remember we have the remark of of uh I believe her name was
00:58:17
Joyce the um the mail carrier yeah so she says of the things that she remembered about the package she
00:58:25
specifically remembered this package for two reasons one it was decorative it had
00:58:29
some kind of bow or ribbon on the front of it two it fit almost exactly inside the mailbox now I've I've read a lot of
00:58:38
things where people have discussed the possibility of does this mean something again was
00:58:44
this deliberate or was it just happen stance some people to the extent of saying well would this individual have
00:58:52
gone to the grette home and figured out the the dimensions of their mailbox right which is interesting
00:59:01
to me on on for several different reasons one like I've never lived in Canada nor have I received a package
00:59:08
while living in Canada but it going off of what we know here it's not that complicated of a system if the package
00:59:17
doesn't fit in the mailbox it's placed in a location where the recipient will pick it up you know at their doorstep
00:59:25
on their driveway something right right so I don't know that necessarily anyone had
00:59:31
to go to the mailbox to know the dimensions of such well it could have been as simple as they went to the post
00:59:37
office and and question H how big of a box can I ship in this certain situation just like when we ship
00:59:46
merchandise I mean that's one of the things that we have to figure out what kind of box can we use for a mug what
00:59:51
can we use for a t-shirt mhm but back to that same thought I also wonder I I've not seen pictures of the Gravette
00:59:59
mailbox but I mean here aren't most mailboxes generally about the same size yeah there's probably a standard size
01:00:07
yeah and then on top of that the the one thing that I think is is uh significant
01:00:13
is the extra postage to to ensure that this thing is absolutely delivered and you said well of course you don't want
01:00:23
this explosive device return to you no well no no and that that's that's a very you know reasonable thing to say but at
01:00:31
the same time we've also gone through the construction of the bomb it's not a bomb that's that's highly unstable and
01:00:38
it's also not going to be returned to you it's going to be returned to this address where these other people live
01:00:43
right right right you know what I mean it's not going to return to you it's going to return to these
01:00:49
innocent people that live at that that address that that address that you attach to William
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tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't [Music] [Applause] litter [Music]