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directly to the killer who may be in this room only a coward would do such a [Music]
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thing what will those closest to you think of when they find out that you brutally
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murdered two little girls only a coward would do so [Music] don't give [Music] up we will not
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stop welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thank you for listening I'm your host
00:00:48
Nick and with me as always of course we have the captain here we're kind of breaking in with a little bit of an
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emergency pod here kind of unscheduled right Captain but we wanted to jump in there's been a lot happening with the
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deli murders case as many of you know the deli murders trial is underway in Indiana and this is a day that many of
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us thought may never come I know for me personally I went through through a a dark period of about a year year and a
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half where I thought that we would never apprehend a suspect that we would never
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see somebody walking into a courtroom being accused and being charged and facing a jury of his his peers but here
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we are nonetheless and it's been a long winding road it's been over seven years well over seven years since we first
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brought this case to you back in 2017 with episodes 110 and 111 on your true crime garage listening dial we've
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done over 20 episodes on this case throughout the years and a large part of those we had nobody in custody and this
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was before the arrest of Richard Allen who was accused of killing the two girls now we wanted to talk about some of the
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expectations with this trial there's been a lot of speed bumps along the way after the
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arrest and it looked like maybe this trial was not going to happen or continue to get pushed back but here we
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are October of 202 four and everything is falling into place so let's go to Fort Wayne Indiana
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this is in Allen County Indiana where jury selection started in the case against Richard Allen who was accused of
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killing Libby German and Abby Williams back in 2017 this process started on Monday the 14th and how this
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jury selection process will work is they are seeking 16 people total to to fill the panel which will be 12 members of
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the jury and four alternates one of the things that is important to note here is that the jury
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selection process is taking place in Allen County and that is roughly like a 2-hour drive from Deli Indiana so why is
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that the case well they need to find jury members that don't know too much about the case specifically don't know
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too much about Richard Allen the accused and if you compare Carol County Indiana
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to Allen County Indiana you're talking about Allen County houses Fort Wayne Indiana which is which is a big pretty
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big city Carroll County the population of the entire County of the entire County back in 2017 is roughly 20,000
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people maybe under that and in the city of Deli you have a population back then of 3,000 people and remember Captain
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when we first started talking about this case in May of 2017 the girls were killed in February
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and there was very little information about what had happened who they were looking for we knew they were looking
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for somebody that they were calling Bridge guy but there was so little information that many people steered
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away from covering this case and we decided we had to jump in because we wanted to try to help you had Billboards
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going going up digital Billboards going up in other states and we wanted to take
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this from just a an eyeballs case and bring it to the earballs of the masses and say look we need help finding this
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bridge guy who is very likely responsible for killing these two girls remember when our coverage first started
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we talked about the searches that happened so the girls were missing overnight before they were found the
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next day and over 300 people good people volunteered their time some of this was
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firefighters but a lot of this were was volunteers that came forward and said yes I'll go out and help you try to find
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these poor girls over 300 people volunteered their time searching for these girls and when you compare that to
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the population of the city of where this took place well now you already have that's roughly 10% of the population of
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that City and then years later fast forward to the accused is a CVS worker who probably interacted with many people
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in the public on a daily basis and let's not forget about all the people that had
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some involvement or some ties to this case over that lengthy process between when the crimes occurred and when they
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finally arrested someone so really truly I think they nailed it you can't go into
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Carol County and think that you're going to walk away with 16 people that are completely unbiased and completely you
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you don't want to Tainted jury pool right no matter how this trial shakes out at the end of the day what we want
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it to be is a fair trial already some of the jury members or the people a part of
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the selection have stated hey I have looked into this case I have opinions about this case they will not be my
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opinions will not change no matter what evidence you show me so those individuals obviously have already been
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kicked out of the jury selection and then another handful of individuals that said hey I've seen a lot of media
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coverage on this case and so obviously those members have been removed as well we won't be featuring a beer today on
00:06:54
today's show as we traditionally do because we're doing a more of an well I'll be drinking one whether you feature
00:07:01
one or not we're doing a more of an off the Record style here today which for those not familiar is our other show
00:07:09
available on patreon and available on Apple subscription there's a whole bunch of episodes if if you sign up today
00:07:17
you're going to get all of the episodes that already exist and live there in that space however in May of 2017 when
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we first covered this case we featured Bohemian pills by the good people at Tin Man Brewing Company so that's how long
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ago we first started talking about this case the process for the jury selection was set up there was a blueprint laid
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out for how this trial they believe the way that it that it would work and some parameters that they're going to work
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with inside of so we have judge Francis Gaul who set aside three full days to select 16 members of the jury
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this will be 12 members of the jury and again four alternates this would be Monday through Wednesday of this week so
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October 14th 15th and 16th we're recording today on the 16th tomorrow on Thursday the 17th the plan is that the
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jury will be sworn in and then transported to a hotel so they have hotel accommodations near Carroll County
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for the courthouse in deli with the opening statement scheduled to begin Friday morning October 18th the jury
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process the jury selection process went pretty swimmingly as far as what I have seen and heard from my understanding
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Captain this started a while back with them mailing out a a questionnaire mailer that went out some time ago from
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there they've selected what were batches of about 50 people yeah to come in for morning and then afternoon sessions and
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so to be perfectly clear on that not 50 people total 50 people to come in for a morning session on Monday and then
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another 50 people to come in for that afternoon session on Monday and that is to continue until they fill this jury of
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16 total people for three days yeah also present in this selection process of course will be three attorneys for the
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state of Indiana and three attorneys for the defense in the court room along with
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judge Francis Gul and one of the things I didn't know because I've never seen it
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in a movie but when they're doing the jury selection they have these many opening statements that are done by the
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defense and the prosecution so everybody in that room that they're trying to narrow down like you said into the 16
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would have heard those many opening statements and those happen each day of jury selection yeah so every time they
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Usher a new batch of 50 people they go through this what what they're calling mini opening statements which which is
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to be expected right because the the people there you have to present this as there should be people arriving that day
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and each day that may have no awareness of the case at all of course this is a very high-profile case and so that gets
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a little blurred the lines get a little blurred there but and a lot of of cases people are walking in for jury selection
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they they don't know anything of the case that they could potentially be sitting on the jury for so that is an
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opportunity where you are kind of explaining to the jury all right this is the case this is the scenario these are
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the crimes and and here is the accused and they are the accused because and then the defense gets to stand up for a
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period of time and present a reut a rebuttal of saying well yeah the state has charged our client however this is
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why he is not guilty this is how we will show that he's innocent and they generally talk in very general and vague
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terms during this process because you got to leave something for the trial and the trial is where they're going to get
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much more in detail with these uh accusations and with the the defense of those accusations and then attempt to
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back that up with Witnesses and evidence and things of the such now during this jury selection process each side the
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prosecution and the defense received 10 strikes for the jury selection process and two more strikes
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for the alternate selection process which this is very common anybody that's seen some of the documentaries or even
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dramati ations of some of the OJ Simpson trial throughout the years will be familiar with this these 10 strikes are
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simply each side getting the opportunity to go all right that person no nope get
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them out of the room and you don't even have to offer you don't even have to offer a reason like you don't have to
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you don't have to say well you know this person should be removed from being a potential juror because of a and C you
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don't even have to do that it's just simply you can say that one's no good that person whatever and and both sides
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get the process as a lawyer you could say that guy has a stupid face and I I don't want him I don't want to have to
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look at him and and then the judge is like well statements that was unnecessary to say that that man has a
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stupid face but the court recognizes that man's stupid face uh yes by by the end of Monday the 14th they were almost
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through the process so it was working everything's going great they they had most of the jury selected by that time
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in fact even earlier in the day by 1 pm on Monday they had 10 jury members selected so they they would break midday
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before ushering in that second batch of people and delivering a a second mini statement and I believe by the end of
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Monday that they had all 12 jurors or they had 12 plus two alternates for the Monday session so this then this all
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wrapped up yesterday with the final two selected well this courtroom is also a little bit smaller than what they're
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going to go to in Carrol County so there is less media there uh but I believe that they were able to accommodate all
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media and so we have some reports people saying well Richard Allen looks healthier than he has in the past and uh
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that he's been wearing basically like a polo shirt and he's taking notes and he's paying attention
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and so maybe this whole sh charade of I'm insane is going to stop yeah remember he was moved to a different
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facility so a lot of people now are pointing out well he looks a lot healthier since he's been moved to this
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this other facility and I captain not to go against you and I may very well be wrong I have not sat in either of these
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two courtrooms but I was under the impression that this courtroom which is in Fort Wayne a much
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larger city as actually the opposite is much larger than the smaller courtroom in the small city of Deli Indiana but
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the Fort Wayne one is a very old I think it's a very old historical courtroom so
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maybe maybe that is the case that it is much smaller because it was built so many years ago well the news was
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reporting that there's like I I said a handful of media passes now but at the new court in Carroll County they'll have
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more passes for the media and for family members are we sure that they're giving
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passes to the media because the the statements I've been that I've read is they were giving no passes to any media
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and for either process the trial or the jury selection and that it was a first come first serve basis that that there's
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a line of persons out in front of the courtroom to to take a seat each day and that they only have well I think that's
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what they mean by pass is there their seats available for media and I'll kind of pull back the curtain a little bit
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because I have some insid or knowledge on some of this I applied for a press credential for the trial and I was
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placed on a list of people that would be granted press credentials should they give them out now that doesn't mean that
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everybody on that list would receive one so maybe I wouldn't receive one maybe they would only give out x amount of
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press credentials and passes to these different trials but even being on that list with the clerk of courts we were
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notified persons on that list we were notified via email a few weeks ago that that no in fact we are not giving out
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any press credentials and unfortunately for me that made it very difficult for uh you or I to attend one of you know a
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day or a week or or portions of this trial because of the distance between where we are and where this trial is
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taking place and considering that boots on the ground people that we've talked to attorneys people in law enforcement
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and now you have people in the media backing this up right they're saying that people are arriving as early as 5
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a.m. sometimes a little bit earlier than 5:00 a.m. to get their place in line to
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get into the courtroom and keep in mind these courtrooms don't open till 8:30 and most of the time there's a bit of a
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delay getting in there 8:45 a.m. so that's a long time to stand in line after having driven so many you know a
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couple hundred miles to get out there in the first place and as to what you were
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saying as to your point here Captain about Richard Allen's appearance real quick M dog [ __ ] of note some items here
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on Sunday the court system updated Richard Allen's bug shot so that was the morning of Sunday October 13th and and
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looking at that mug shot he does appear to be thinner but he appears to be stupider in Better Health yeah he
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appears to be stronger he's got the a very close buzz cut and he's clean shaved in the uh clean shaving in the
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picture there well I think he looks like a psychotic Turtle well his eyes don't look too deep into those eyes because uh
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you know they they always say that that's where you see it is in the eyes and that's where I'm starting to see it
00:18:09
with Richard Allen and what it is let's not go down that road here today if you want to know what it is we got like 700
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shows um you will find it in many of those shows shortly before 900 a.m. on Monday the defendant Richard Allen walks
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into the courtroom and he's described as wearing a light purple button down shirt
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and khaki pants so this is of note because this is the first time that he seen in a public court appearance not
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wearing a prison outfit the the orange prison jumpsuit so he's not he's not Shackled right he's not cuffed like
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we've seen him in other Snippets and he's not in that prison get up so keep in mind for for those there are a lot of
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there's a lot of good reporting going on thus far about what the trial and leading up to the jury selection on
00:19:10
Monday but those clips that you are seeing in the background as the news anchor reporter are talking those news
00:19:19
Clips are from previous courtroom appearances so the ones that you seeing being led into the courtroom or or being
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escorted to the courthouse in shackles or in Chains and in the prison get up surrounded by
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police that's those are old that's old news footage yeah to me in that in the purple shirt he kind of looks like a
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psychotic Donell from the Ninja Turtles but one of the things that people always
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point out when they see Richard Allen in person is his stature he is he is a very
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small individual some of the reporters are saying he's listed at you know 5556 but he he even seems smaller than that
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four yeah and but but you have to remember when they had the wanted posters for bridg guy they're put in the
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height and and I think this is something we've talked about extensively is the height was well we think maybe he's 5'6
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to 510 so we we know we're looking for a smaller individual now that doesn't mean
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it's a slam dunk anybody closer to 56 is you know is a great suspect but that just puts things in perspective it's a
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shame too because that's one thing that we really honed in on quite a bit when we prior to the arrest when we were
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still looking for the person believed to be responsible looking for the person who's responsible I say believed because
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let's keep in mind he is simply Accused at this point he's not been proven to be
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guilty but with those railroad ties and the way that that bridge is set up you know just the general structure of those
00:21:06
old railroad bridges in general we thought they should be able to come up with a good idea of his height based off
00:21:13
of the video I mean you know the distance between those planks and you can see him walking on
00:21:21
those planks the problem then becomes you got to factor in the trajectory of the video the angle the video being
00:21:29
taken and I don't know I'm I'm not here to criticize the investigation or maybe you hindsight's always 2020 but I think
00:21:38
they could have got a little closer to than than to maybe what they did the four or five inch difference there on
00:21:47
their thought now yeah I agree regarding those opening statements so some some here's some insight into the the
00:21:56
courtroom and and and what took place over the past two days so in the state's opening statement they told potential
00:22:06
jurors that Richard Allen is Bridge guy using those exact words Richard Allen is
00:22:12
Bridge guy and this came from Carroll County prosecutor Nick mclelan he said Bridge guy brutally murdered the two
00:22:21
meaning the girls then casually walked back to his car and went home but he left a clue the prosecution said was a
00:22:28
bullet found at the crime scene at the murder scene the state said it would prove that Richard Allen is Bridge guy
00:22:35
and that jurors would hear how he allegedly confessed to the murders multiple times and why in the defense's
00:22:44
opening statements they said Allan confessed to shooting the girls in the back and of
00:22:51
course we know they were not shot they said Allan confessed to a crime he didn't commit and that these are the
00:22:58
ingredients for false confessions the defense described the evidence as soft one of the things that has been reported
00:23:06
in the news a lot is that the defense is going with a false confession defense the major points here are that Richard
00:23:14
Allen has confessed to this crime over 60 times but the defense is also saying well yeah he confessed to this crime but
00:23:23
some of his details are not accurate my argument there was depending on which which time he confessed you know are
00:23:31
there sometimes that there's details that the killer would only know is sometimes like you said is he making a
00:23:39
confession where he's giving information that he knows is incorrect they also claim that he has confessed to
00:23:46
committing crimes that haven't took place like he said he he killed his whole family he killed his Grand
00:23:52
children and we know that obviously those are false and then they also in one of their opening stat stat said that
00:23:59
they found some hair in aby's hand that was not Richard Allen's yeah so this is weird because it's been argued in
00:24:09
hearings leading up to this trial whether these confessions would be allowed to be in and part of
00:24:17
the trial and you're exactly right Captain it's weird because when when those hearings were taking place we were
00:24:24
hearing by from persons that were test Tes ifying and giving statements at those hearings for the state that were
00:24:33
saying yeah he confessed it wasn't under deress I in fact I told him I didn't want to hear anymore and and there he's
00:24:40
not being he's not confessing to a detective that's grilling him he's just he's being involved in other
00:24:46
conversations and all of a sudden starting down a starting to deliver a confession to someone and right in those
00:24:54
hearings mind you we weren't privy to everything that took place during those hearings but the outcome was generally
00:25:03
stated as he wasn't saying anything that didn't go along with what took place with what we
00:25:13
with some of the known facts of the case or some of even the facts of the case that only the state and the defense know
00:25:21
and so this is very different what we're hearing now and really truly this is only like Weeks Later after they were
00:25:30
the the judge said the confessions are in because they are evidence yeah they're yeah but but keep in mind judge
00:25:39
says their evidence that doesn't necessarily that's not necessarily a one-way Street it could be evidence for
00:25:47
the prosecution it could be evidence for the defense and I think what we're going
00:25:51
to see now once the trial hits is that they're probably going to parse these out a little bit and they're going to
00:25:58
pick at him and they're going to say okay well this is what he got right in this one this is what he got wrong in
00:26:04
this one but this is the first that it seems like that we are hearing that some of these confessions were completely
00:26:12
wrong and then the the mindset of the person giving the confessions the the thing
00:26:19
that was often argued in those prior hearings was like he's on the phone with his wife
00:26:26
so he's not under duress in that moment he's not confessing because someone's grilling him in fact she's on the phone
00:26:33
saying like I think I you know I don't think we should be talking I think you should talk to your attorneys and he's
00:26:40
confessing to people unnecessarily and so these confessions are going to be very interesting once we
00:26:47
get to the trial process now for those who have not been able to follow every minute of this
00:26:56
situation what we have here is a situation where they will not be allowing cameras or recorders or even
00:27:03
audio recording devices into the courtroom so we are going to rely on good oldfashioned reporting we're going
00:27:10
to have the reporters that can make it in there will be sitting in a courtroom with pen and paper and jotting down and
00:27:18
taking notes as this process continues and as the trial gets underway during the selection process
00:27:27
Rick Allen was seen you know so he's sitting there with his defense team he's seen interacting with them throughout
00:27:36
the whole jury selection process and taking an active role he's discussing things with his defense team as one
00:27:44
would expect even to the point of pointing out juries or sorry potential jurors that he wanted to either be
00:27:52
seeded to be a part of the to be selected for this trial or to be removed from the jury and at times he could be
00:28:00
seen laughing and even smiling when he's discussing things with his legal team now Captain you are the captain so I'll
00:28:10
let you steer the ship here do you want to hear maybe the most strange or the most interesting courtroom moment or
00:28:20
moments thus far this is from what took place on Monday and Tuesday well let me decide that right after this quick beer
00:28:27
break [Music] [Music] all right we are back cheers mates I think let's let's start with the most
00:28:54
interesting okay for the the most interesting thing that I found to have taken place was
00:29:02
it's pretty simple but I was shocked at the numbers here Captain was the state listed that they plan to call 55
00:29:12
Witnesses during the course of the trial that seems like a lot 55 is a lot I would have expected a high number you
00:29:22
know probably 40 I guess is more of what I was expecting so I wasn't completely blown away when I heard 50
00:29:28
5 but then the defense has to do the same thing they have to list how many witnesses they plan to call they plan to
00:29:36
call 120 Witnesses I I guess I I guess I assumed and and look I don't know much about you know not an attorney obviously
00:29:49
and I don't know if it's if it's typical that the defense calls more than the prosecution but but in this case 55 for
00:30:00
the state 120 Witnesses planned to be called we should note that planned to be called
00:30:06
for the defense well all the news reports that I saw like we said they're going to be moving the jury to Carl
00:30:14
County on Friday well I think they move them on Thursday but they start the trial on Friday that's going to be the
00:30:21
opening statement so we're on the way right this is happening we've waited this long it's dday but a lot of these
00:30:31
news reports said okay well because this jury is being sequestered which is not as normal as one would think they're
00:30:39
going to be put up in in a hotel they're going to have all their devices taken away from them so they can't listen to
00:30:47
uh True Crime garage to get all their updates but the news reports are saying that this trial probably will take about
00:30:54
a month roughly well the problem with that is when you say 50 some witnesses by the prosecution and 10 and some by
00:31:04
the defense how are you going to get through that in a month so maybe it's just this is our list but that doesn't
00:31:10
mean we'll call every individual it well exactly they have to present a list because here's why the other side gets
00:31:17
an opportunity to argue okay well that person can't be allowed to testify or the state can't call that person and
00:31:24
here's why or judge you had previously said this in some of our hearings and this person falls into one of those
00:31:31
categories of something we're not supposed to present at trial so any of these people can be eliminated they have
00:31:38
to provide this list it's standard procedure the other thing too let's keep in mind so judge Gaul announced to the
00:31:47
jurors that the trial is expected to last until November 15th so you know I don't have a calendar right in front of
00:31:56
me here so I don't know if we have any holidays along the way I wouldn't expect there to be any holidays uh I mean
00:32:02
Halloween I'm sure they're still going to have court on Halloween but that's basically you're getting 21 days I
00:32:10
believe I don't think there's a Saturday session for these courts so if it's Monday through Friday you're getting 21
00:32:16
days to jam in all of this information and all these wit potential witnesses that
00:32:24
could be called to that now now November 15th isn't it doesn't mean like oh shows over no matter what if we don't
00:32:35
get through this trial on November 15th I mean we saw the Amber Reed Tri trial went weeks longer than expected so this
00:32:42
thing could potentially go days or even weeks longer than what they're expecting
00:32:47
this is just simply a courtesy and and actually this is something that the courts should provide
00:32:56
and they do provide the judge is the expert here and so this is a courtesy that they're providing to these people
00:33:04
because these people have lives and they work and they may need to be telling their employers like look state says I
00:33:13
have to serve on this jury and live in this hotel and I'm going to be stuck there till judge says November 15th
00:33:20
because I'm sure these people's families and employer employers want to know how
00:33:26
long are you going to be missing an action for and so this gives them some kind of framework there on that regard
00:33:35
now from my understanding here Captain for this trial each juror will be given a stien of $8 a day for the first five
00:33:45
days and then $90 a day for uh each day after that well what you left me with though was the the
00:33:56
interesting takeaway from I'm sorry we went through you asked for the most interesting we have the
00:34:02
most strange moments from Monday and Tuesday so this is the first one is Judge G dismissed a potential juror who
00:34:13
claimed to be a psychic I don't have a crystal ball but I have a crystal brain so one person there in the courtroom
00:34:20
claiming to be a psychic was quickly dismissed by the judge the statement given so there was some interaction with
00:34:28
this psychic person I don't know if this was interaction with the judge the defense or or the prosecution it doesn't
00:34:35
really matter at this point because the person's been dismissed but the person said I'm I'm a psychic and my presence
00:34:43
will only help the prosecution So that obviously that's going to be a quick smell you later to that person then see
00:34:53
you later loser then we have this is the moment that I found to be to be very weird and again it's just because you're
00:35:03
it's being described to us there's no there's no camera at this proceeding so maybe I'm
00:35:11
just picturing this in a much more weird way in my own head than it actually was
00:35:17
but but I think it's of note at one point during the defense questioning we get a member of the defense his name is
00:35:25
Andrew Baldwin he's part of the defense team Richard Allen's defense team he goes and he stands behind Richard Allen
00:35:33
who's seated in the courtroom and with and he places both of his hands on the shoulders of Richard
00:35:42
Allen and he's Andrew Baldwin the defense attorney's addressing the potential jurors and he says you guys
00:35:51
look at this man right here is it really possible that he might be innocent of these crimes of these crimes and as soon
00:36:00
as he finishes the sentence Rick Allen Smiles at the jury and the jury's just kind
00:36:06
of like in shock and awe right and just kind of staring back psychotic Ninja Turtle and the states the prosecution
00:36:15
jumps up it's like objection your honor so you're already seeing some uh some kind of TV Antics playing out the
00:36:25
the two things that I thought were the most interesting was when the in during one of the opening statements when they
00:36:31
say well we have hair found in aby's hand that's not Richard Allen and there's no description of it so this
00:36:41
defense team loves to to muck up the waters and so is it one or two strands of hair whose hair is it is it a a
00:36:51
male's hair is it a female's hair and then when you think about just you know they're at the park
00:36:58
is it her hair is it Libby's hair is it is it the sister's hair from when they were riding in the car because anybody
00:37:06
that lives with women know like dashboard confession told us your hair is everywhere and so I want to know is
00:37:15
it male hair or is it is it female hair and then is it possible that it it actually does match Richard Allen but we
00:37:23
just can't definitively say that because it is a hair fiber without the the bulb
00:37:31
on on the hair and then the other thing that they said the fical the other thing
00:37:37
that they said too was and I don't know if this was in a opening statement or not but they're saying that he was
00:37:46
interrupted or during one of the confessions he he he claims he was interrupted let's get into that here in
00:37:52
a minute I want to I definitely want to Circle back to that but to touch on the hair thing for a
00:37:58
yeah it's it's an outdoor crime scene we talked about this at length with before
00:38:03
we had a person arrested before we had a name for a suspect the complications of an outdoor
00:38:11
crime scene it's it's always very you can't control the crime scene and number one and you can't you can only protect
00:38:19
it so much there's there's weather elements there's wind there's all kinds of debris whether it be from Mother
00:38:27
Nature from humans look there's no nice way of saying some of these things they're lying there
00:38:32
overnight and they're until about noon or so and we don't know I I'd have to go through our old episodes to know when
00:38:41
they were removed we do know and I I do list that in my book when Once the bodies were removed from that area
00:38:49
but those hairs if they're longer I I'm like kind of envisioning longer hairs that that could have caught winds
00:38:57
somehow and and ended up catching on something and just and remaining there wouldn't be out of question it wouldn't
00:39:07
be totally unreasonable that that would happen it could have come from if and you're saying they don't have the
00:39:13
follicle a lot of this information isn't super clear and I think what the defense
00:39:18
is trying to imply without given us actual evidence is I think they're trying to imply that
00:39:27
Abby put up a fight and she has a clump of hair that she got from the actual killer and that Richard Allen is not the
00:39:35
killer I think that's what they're trying to imply well and you are exactly right there Captain not with them in
00:39:42
trying with them trying to imply something because that to me is what this defense seems to do regularly and
00:39:49
has done it consistently and constantly throughout this very lengthy process where like you were saying earlier it's
00:39:58
they kind of just toss something out there vaguely like oh here's this uh oh here's let me just float out this little
00:40:07
nondescript piece of information and see how everybody reacts to it not to be a total ass clown here uh and to to to
00:40:15
make to make light of this horrible situation but this defense team to me when I think of this defense team and
00:40:24
their their tactics and and how they go about their business trying to put up a fight for Richard Allen like they float
00:40:35
things out there and very quickly the stuff is dismissed right it's like well that was really nothing it REM it's it
00:40:42
completely reminds me of when you have Ben Stiller's character in the uh Meet the Parents meet the fuers movies
00:40:52
remember that part in one of those movies where he's he's standing in front of the mirror and he's pretending what
00:40:59
he's going to say to Robert Dao's character right he's like hey Jack what do you think about this now what do you
00:41:07
think about that all right now what do you think about this oh do you like that now what do you think about this like it
00:41:12
it's just like it he does that like 30 times and that's what I think about this defense team and they're they're trying
00:41:19
to prove the innocence of their client it's just like oh yeah what do you think about this and then we're like yeah
00:41:25
that's no good and he like okay well what you think about that what they have that we don't have is the evidence
00:41:31
against their client and so to me I view this defense team as like I'm a decent boxer but I'm going up against a better
00:41:42
boxer so if I just box this individual I have no chance of winning but if I can make it a street fight and I can get
00:41:50
them to not box me but just fight me then maybe I have a chance and that's how I kind of view this defense team I'm
00:41:58
G to go Ben Stiller on that going to get all Ben Stiller on you so details of the crimes revealed that's
00:42:06
what a lot of the people that have followed this case for so long will be intrigued by the potential of what uh
00:42:14
details of the crimes and details of the investigation because all of this was very hush hush and a lot of holdback
00:42:21
information for a long period of time here so people want to know what what will we learn at this trial and you
00:42:29
honed in on something perfect that this is one of the first Snippets is and and I have a good
00:42:36
rundown of it here let me read this to you Abigail Williams and Liberty German decided to walk across the moan and high
00:42:42
bridge above Deer Creek but they were not alone this is coming from the state mcleland says Bridge guy used a gun to
00:42:50
force them down the hill to do what he wanted that's a quote he said Allen was interrupted and forced the girls to
00:42:58
cross the creek where he had them undressed before he killed them he threw their clothes in Deer Creek and then he
00:43:05
fled the area this is interesting the way that this is worded that Allen was interrupted and then forced the girls to
00:43:14
cross the creek where he had them undress before he killed them he threw their clothes in Deer Creek okay so
00:43:22
that's the statement there but what this to me is suggesting of is that he had a different intention
00:43:31
like was his intention to take them from that area now if you go back to the earlier part of that statement maybe
00:43:41
maybe not so that he that he wasn't it was he was attempting to take them to a different
00:43:47
location nearby right like he was attempting to walk them One Direction was interrupted and decided oh I got to
00:43:53
maneuver and take them this other direction is is the way that I'm kind of processing what what mcleland is saying
00:44:01
here well one of the rumors was that one of his confessions he claims that he saw
00:44:08
a van pulling into a driveway and that is what interrupted him and and again that's just a rumor of the confession
00:44:17
but a lot of people believe that that is true because one of the neighbors would
00:44:21
have been getting home from work roughly at that time and had some kind of service
00:44:27
van and so it kind of all lines up details of the investigation potentially because remember what I was saying
00:44:35
earlier about the defense team but some details about the investigation potentially revealed here the defense
00:44:43
said that the local authorities refused the FBI's help with Libby's cell phone which we all know anybody that knows and
00:44:52
follows this case knows is a really big part of this case and a big part of the invest instigation Libby cell phone was
00:44:59
found at the murder scene and the defense is saying that the police were ill equipped to process this phone
00:45:07
saying that the it would have been better to have processed it by the FBI to which they're saying local
00:45:13
authorities refused the FBI's help with Libby's cell phone found at the scene which I I don't know it seems very
00:45:21
strange we know the FBI had a very big hand in what took place in in the investigation that
00:45:28
followed so I don't really know what to make of that statement I'm not saying it's untrue for the
00:45:36
jury I was hoping to get a better breakdown than this and maybe we'll get more clarification on this later today
00:45:43
here but when through the process the selection process once they had selected 14 of the 16 needed at that time we were
00:45:53
looking at eight women and six men had been selected and the evidence that the jurors said
00:46:02
that they would expect to see during the course of this trial includes phone data
00:46:09
testimony from Witnesses evidence of a weapon being used fingerprints and an alibi yeah so my my major takeaways from
00:46:20
what we've learn so far is I mean I knew that he confessed I I didn't know that it was over 60 time so I think that's
00:46:28
going to be difficult for the defense but also diff difficult for the prosecution to
00:46:33
sift through those confessions and look he could have been advised by his attorneys to just start confessing to
00:46:40
everybody because it'll be easier to try to throw out those confessions or to make you know well he confessed 60 times
00:46:47
so of course he's going to get something right out of those 60 times but then we
00:46:52
also learn that he's confessed to murders that didn't take place then you have the hair found in aby's hand so
00:47:00
that'll be interesting to learn more about that evidence if if it is evidence and then when the prosecution stated
00:47:09
that he was interrupted I would like to know more details obviously about what that Interruption was like but he is
00:47:16
charged with four counts of murder two intentional and two felony counts of murder and those are my big takeaway
00:47:24
from what we've learned so far yeah um the I from my understanding two of those counts is for
00:47:35
murder uh murder being the result in the process of of trying to commit a kidnapping the the thing here is with
00:47:43
these confessions true false or otherwise somewhere in between who knows we should
00:47:50
be if whichever confession maybe all of them maybe just some of them will be presented at trial and we're going to
00:47:58
get to hear the details maybe not word for word but some of them were recorded some of them were written and so some of
00:48:08
those we should get word for word and we will be able to the jury more importantly will be able to hear that
00:48:16
information and try to decide for themselves is this does this lead to this guy's falsely confessing over and
00:48:25
over again or he's truth fully confessing or he's doing it doing a little bit of both along the way because
00:48:30
here's the thing the defense could spin it some of these things and put a good spin on it and say look he's confessing
00:48:39
to people that aren't even dead that he killed people that aren't even dead well
00:48:44
yes and no he could be saying I killed my whole family uh guess what he's been sitting in a Cell not seeing his family
00:48:54
he's probably wondering ing if he's found guilty will he have any family left and maybe that's what he means by I
00:49:04
killed my whole family you know it's hard to say without having yeah it's hard to say without having the details
00:49:11
of those confessions and so that's one thing that's going to be really interesting to piece through and and and
00:49:19
kind of sort out there my big takeaway was the amount of witnesses that they were going to be calling for both Sid
00:49:26
sides because what I was wondering Captain was like I'm going through the hearings and following the hearings that
00:49:34
was leading up to this trial and the judge threw a lot of stuff out and a lot of that I agreed with but I kind of sat
00:49:43
there afterwards going well what's going to be left to talk about at the trial and saying that it's going to be a five
00:49:49
six week process I question well how long lengthy is this trial going to be when so much stuff has been tossed out I
00:49:56
was thinking we're probably looking after you get through jury selection we're probably looking at a two-e trial
00:50:02
but then we get told 50 Witnesses more than so 55 Witnesses approximately for the state 120 or so for the defense this
00:50:13
seems like it's shaking out to be what it was said to be a while back that that we should expect a five week trial 21
00:50:22
days or so opening statements starting this Friday be intrigued to see if they take it for the entirety of the day I
00:50:30
would expect so I wouldn't expect that you would just do opening statements for each side and and and rest for the day I
00:50:37
don't think that that would be the right way to handle it but again I'm I'm not in sh I'm not in charge this is not not
00:50:43
my show of course um but we will'll keep an eye on it and I know everybody else out there is keeping an eye on it and
00:50:50
regardless this is getting us closer to something that we started that that unfortunately had to start
00:50:57
so long ago and I do want to remind everybody during this process especially during this process the this is going to
00:51:06
be very difficult for a lot of families the next couple of weeks the next several weeks are going to be very
00:51:14
difficult for a lot of families and so let's everybody please keep that in mind act
00:51:21
accordingly if you wish say a prayer uh give strength to these people they've been through a lot is is the
00:51:30
understatement of of the year and they're going to be going through a lot unfortunately again in the next several
00:51:41
[Music] weeks want to thank everybody for joining us here in the garage for this
00:51:56
Deli murders update if you need more True Crime garage for your earballs check us out on patreon or apple podcast
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subscriptions until next week be good be kind and don't litter [Music]