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foreign [Music] [Applause] [Applause] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who plays golf just like John Daly on a bender he
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business everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer grab a canoe let's talk some true crime
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foreign [Music] foreign [Applause] [Music] of tiny little moments in the long run some of them matter and
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some of them don't in the end most of those tiny little moments are forgotten because most of the time it's just
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another ordinary day Tuesday July 9th 1959 should have been just another ordinary day
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full of tiny forgettable moments but it wasn't because a little girl went missing
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and two days later her body is found she had been brutally murdered there are so many questions about that
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now Infamous day [Music] so many tiny moments that if some of them maybe just one were different
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than that little girl might still be alive [Music] what if a teenage boy didn't ride his
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bike to the schoolyard that evening what if that little girl didn't have an argument with her parents at the dinner
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table [Music] what if she didn't ask that boy for a ride what if he had turned her down
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and just went off by himself to play with his friends would she still be alive [Music]
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[Applause] [Music] thank you Lynn Harper was born to Leslie and Shirley Harper on August 31st 1946 in
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New Brunswick Canada her real name is Cheryl but she goes by Lynn she is the middle child with an older
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brother Barry and an older brother Jeffrey her father Leslie joined the military in the family relocated to the
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rcaf base in Clinton in 1957. Lynn is a socially active child spending much of her time in the Girl Guides that's like
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the girl scouts or what do they call that the brownie Scouts and she attended Sunday school as well
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now the rcaf base is an Air Force Base which is actually just a little south of Clinton which is in Ontario
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now in 1959 Lynn is in the seventh grade at the air Vice Marshall Hugh Campbell school I wonder what kind of sport teams
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that school had back then can't you just picture air Vice Marshall Hugh Campbell
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school on a on a little kids team jersey anyway she is in the seventh grade but this is one of those split classes so
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this is a seventh slash eighth grade shared class one of Lynn's classmates is 14 year old
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8th grader Stephen Truscott now Stephen is a popular athletic kid he spends a lot of time playing at the river which
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is nearby this is a popular spot for all of the kids in the area you know they would go swimming fishing there's
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there's plenty of things to do down at the river it's very similar when you think about it if you watch the first it
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Stephen King's It you know the time period that this case is based in and the time period that when their children
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it's based in and how those children would go down to the river and play and you know create a dam and all that stuff
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on Tuesday June 9 1959 Lynn Harper came home from school and she got into an argument with her parents
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she then went to her Girl Guides brownies meeting at around 7 PM she sees Stephen Truscott
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in the schoolyard now Lynn asked Stephen what is he doing well he says he's going
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to go down to the river to see if there are any other kids there Lynn asked if he would take her to the
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highway Stephen has a bike with him and she wants a ride he says of course I'm going
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down that way anyway so yeah I will take you she asked Stephen Truscott for a ride to
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the highway so she could visit a farm to see some ponies this is what Lynn called
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or referred to as the White House Down on Highway 8. uh this is a farm with animals but more importantly to Lynn
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with with these ponies that she wants to see so Stephen true Scott gave her a ride on the handlebars of his bike down
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the gravel road well what's going to be very important in this case is to be able to visualize
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um this scene so just think of it as a straight line and at the bottom of that straight line
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we're going to have the school you go up a little bit further you're going to have the area that we're going to call
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the bush that bush is going to be on the right side and when we talk about Bush it's a it's a little dirt road that
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leads off into the brush right yeah like a wooded area so you have the school you
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have the bush right go a little bit further on that straight line and you will have a bridge that passes over the
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water that's the water that Stephen is talking about go a little bit further on that straight line and that runs to a
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stop sign and that is going to be highway or state route 8. yes so we have now we have uh Lynn on the
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handlebars riding on Steven's bike he's pedaling along this is when Lynn tells Stephen about the argument that she got
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into with her parents that took place at dinner time um they pass a wooded area that the
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captain mentioned which is known to the kids in the area as farmer Lawson's Bush
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farmer Lawson owned a big farm in this area and that's what they called this little wooded area that's off this dirt
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road well what's this argument about uh I'm unclear about what this argument is about and it I mean she's in seventh
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grade it could be something silly she came home late from school or you know a carryover from some some former
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disagreement that they've had yeah um it doesn't sound like this I think if this argument was more of a big deal we
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would know more about it yeah or if it was more significant to the actual case well they passed that area known as
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farmer Lawson's Bush and then they go over the bridge so Lynn wrote on his bike on
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Steven's bike for about 1.2 kilometers so it's like three quarters of a mile roughly okay all right so she rode on
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the handlebars on a gravel road probably not too comfy you know what I mean yeah
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but this is back you know again in the 50s they had the big swooping handlebars so it's really easy to kind of sit
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somebody in the middle of those handlebars and then then you'd pedal along but but this also makes you know
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obviously their presence to be a lot bigger because you now have two individuals on the bike yeah and trying
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to visualize this like the captain said it's very important so by this point they've left the schoolyard they go past
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the wooded area known as Lawson's Bush and they've gone over the bridge now they're making their way toward that
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intersection with the highway eight um this is where uh Lynn asked Stephen to let her off of the bike
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um he says that she said she would hitchhike the rest of the way um the farm is less than half of a
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kilometer away from this drop-off point so Stephen lets her off of the bike and he turns his old bike around and he
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heads back into uh Town quote unquote Town well in worst case scenario she'll just walk the rest of the way so Stephen
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he did however stop his bike he stopped his bike on the bridge when he was returning and he sees some kids playing
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in the river there while he's standing on the bridge he turns and he looks back at the highway and he sees Lynn getting
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into a car hey he's going to see Lynn get into a Chevy and what's kind of odd about this is uh you know back in the
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day especially in the 50s that you'd have very uh unique bumpers and and headlights and tail
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lights and all that stuff so he sees kind of a unique tail light kind of looks like big eyes but the other thing
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that's kind of interesting here is that Steven sees some kind of orange object that's on the car like maybe a bumper
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sticker or something like that yeah it's often reported that this would have been
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a yellow or our orange license plate or possibly an orange or yellow bumper sticker at 11 20 PM that night Lynn's
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father Leslie reported his daughter as missing now at some point he must have heard through the grapevine that the the
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two kids were spotted together by other neighborhood kids at some point that evening because there are reports that
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he went to Stephen truscott's house and asked him about you know where he had last seen his daughter has heard from
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her you know he's he's out looking the neighborhood for his daughter right um it's it's not reported what they
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actually spoke about what what Stephen he's only 14 spoke with Lynn's father about that evening I would imagine that
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that he's probably hearing a similar story to what we just heard that he last seen her getting into a car at Highway
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8. um one thing that we should kind of underline here here before we go much further is that he says he saw Lynn
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getting into a car he doesn't say that he saw her being pulled into a car and I think that's going to be something that
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is key now the next morning on June 10th at around 9 30 a.m a 14 year old Stephen
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Truscott is pulled from his class and he's asked to sit in a police cruiser where he will be interviewed this is
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Constable Hobbs yeah after last week we have another officer Hobbs right yeah um
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anyway very popular yeah anyway he when asked about their trip to go see the pony Stephen tells the officer that he
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gave her the ride he let her off of his bike at the intersection just like we had said on his way back he sees her
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getting into a car and Steven just like the captain said gets a good description
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of this vehicle and um there there are a couple versions of this description in any way they're not
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too far off from one another so I'll let you be the judge of how good of the description is but one report says
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Stephen said that he saw a gray 1959 Chevrolet possibly a Bel Air with either that yellow or orange license plate or
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yellow or orange bumper sticker another says that he saw a late model Chevrolet possibly a Bel Air with a lot of Chrome
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on it I'm I'm guessing the reason for more than one report is as we're going to see here Steven is going to be asked
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what happened to Lynn many times by several different officers and several different people so I think we should be
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clear here this is not a situation of what I believe where Stephen is changing his story
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um I I think this is those are both those are both descriptions that sound very like one another one like we're
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saying and kind of what we LED on to in the trailer was you know you're not expecting her to go
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missing so you you know how much details are you paying attention to you see a car you
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kind of remember this you remember that you know especially in banking you know we had to take tests all the time on you
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know watching robberies and then they'd ask us questions about the robbery afterwards so we could kind of train
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ourselves for when if or if we ever got robbed uh what we could remember and it always changes and again that's when
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you're being you know you'd mess up the little tiny things and that's when you know that there's a test so so you gotta
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assume that there's going to be some things messed up because obviously Steven didn't know there was going to be
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a test well the other thing too Captain is your answer could change depending on
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whom you're speaking with because I mean think about it this way if if I'm 14 years old and somebody asked me about
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the vehicle I saw okay I saw her getting into a 59 Chevrolet probably a Bel Air well are you sure it was a 59 you do you
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really want to do we want to say that it was a 59 or do we want to say that it was a newer car right Chevrolet oh yeah
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yeah it was a newer one um so I think that's where we have these little discrepancies here
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um now the this should be a really good possible lead here right um the the other thing is that at some
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point Steven gives them a plate number uh he he got a plate number off of the car the the problem with this is the
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plate number doesn't really go anywhere they're able to check the number that he
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reports to them they're not able to you know this could be one of several different things okay one either that
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plate number didn't actually exist you know when they punched in into the system right or two if it did exist it
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didn't have a matching car uh that went along with that that plate as far as his
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description goes the other thing too is it's very likely that if a plate of that
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number existed it could have been somebody from you know far away or out of the area my suspicion on this is that
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that plate number was completely fabricated by Stephen or right fabricated or or wrong yeah and
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misremembered yeah but I think at the end of the day too it's like you know State Route eight you have state rail
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eight and then you have the bridge and if you're sitting at that bridge and you're looking towards State Route 8
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that's a pretty far distance and so uh you know this the police actually speculated that maybe he couldn't even
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make out what kind of car would be so then you're going to tell me if you if you could barely make out the car you're
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going to be able to make out a license plate I think this was a lot of questioning by authority figures to a 14
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year old scared boy and they're leading him and then he was like oh I'll just make up a number and we'll see what
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happens well and you're exactly right here Captain because if if the if the kid can't even tell you if it's a if
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it's a license plate or a bumper sticker that he's seeing how is he seeing any numbers on that plate so as law
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enforcement is retracing Lynn's steps you know talking with Stephen they go back to the the fight with the parents
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that night and then they start suspecting that maybe she ran away right yeah they they think they're probably
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looking for a runaway situation here but on Thursday the military organized a search party and on that day they end up
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finding Lin they found Lynn dead um so they find her in that Lawson's bush area that wooded area we spoke of
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she is laying there almost nude she has been brutally raped and strangled uh with her blouse somebody used her blouse
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to strain angle her they find blood on her and around her there is a cut on her leg she had one arm kind of up and out
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and the other one resting on her chest so she's only wearing her bloodied undershirt and of course the the blouses
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tied around her neck but there's some peculiar things here because her her shoes
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and other clothing they are neatly laid next to her so the shoes are neatly placed next to her her socks are
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together like paired and rolled up the zipper on her shorts was even zipped up the she had a necklace there was a
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necklace that she was wearing that they found hanging on a fence nearby her body
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and her killer has placed three small branches on top of her body there are also some interesting go ahead
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hold on so what is the suspicion here is it that she was raped and murdered in the bush
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or was she raped and murdered somewhere else uh at a different location and then
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placed there because to me it seems like if you if you're gonna place the body and then beside it you're placing the
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the clothes nice and neatly folded that's pretty strange it's very strange first of all um but
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the theory here the thought is and I can only go off of what the inspectors were
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saying at the time um they said that they believed she was raped and killed in the same location
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that she was found um again they give a reason why they believe that though well I'm guessing
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here Captain but the statement of them finding blood on her and around her I'm guessing is what would lead one to cause
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that she believed that she got that injury that caused her to bleed at that location
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um and there was probably some other indications that she would have been attacked and killed there yeah and I
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think those are all probably good reasons to believe the only reason why I question it and then maybe also start
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questioning the time of death and we'll get to that a little bit later but that this is a secluded area but it's not
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super secluded it's just right off the road and we also have plenty of eyewitnesses that we'll get to later
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that were on that road that day and during this time period that the law law enforcement is going to claim that she
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was murdered or that the this attack took place right so it's kind of suspicious there so if if in fact she is
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killed at this location then the this means that the killer took the time to straighten up her clothing
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basically you know um kind of laying it out neatly I've almost I've heard one person say that it
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was like almost folded you know like like somebody would when you lay out clothes
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um I I don't know this to be true that's just one report that I heard but hearing
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that the socks were rolled up like paired and rolled up together and then that's how I fold my socks and then the
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thought is that the zipper on the shorts possibly was that the killer zipped the
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shorts back up before folding them up and laying them neatly next to her well my hunch would that would be that the
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rape took place somewhere else maybe the murder took place in this area but we're
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talking about you know if the motivation which based on the evidence the motivation for this murder would have
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been for the sexual assault for the rape then you would assume that this individual wouldn't want to hurry that
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process so I'm just my hunch is that it took place somewhere else and then um moved her there but maybe murdered
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her there which doesn't have to be a building or anything it could be or any type of structure it could be the
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vehicle that she was seen getting into now and I want to kind of stress something else here too you know I I
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purposely said that the killer placed three small small branches on top of her body because when I first heard this
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report I thought well that that almost sounds to me like somebody trying to hide the bodies trying to cover
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something up I've seen pictures of these branches and that was definitely not the
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the purpose of placing these on top of her okay they were considerably smaller than her from what I've seen and it it
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just it to me it means it means something but it but it it might mean the same weirdness that the clothing
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meant if that makes sense um you know not trying to been done in a state of panic or something where
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there's the person's now not thinking clearly and then they're like oh well this will this will cover up and it's
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like no that's those are small branches there are some interesting tracks in the area of the
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body um and I and I want to stress that as well in the area of that the body was
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found um it's not clear to me with certain tracks with the exception of these Footprints of how close these tracks
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were located to where they actually found her body like the captain said you know you could access this wooded area
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you could drive up on a car or a bike to this area but at some point you're not going to be able to drive into this
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wooded bush area um and and so you wouldn't expect to find these tracks right next to her body
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but they did find a bike tire track leading the words are leading to the body um there are footprints like I said now
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the the bike tire tracks are not right next to the body but these Footprints are and these marks measure about 10 to
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11 inches they also find some vehicle tire tracks in the area as well I don't think this would be uncommon to find
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bicycle or vehicle tire tracks in this area you know even if there wasn't a body there
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um now yeah well because it's best especially once you start getting to the eyewitness accounts you know going into
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the bush or hanging out in the bush is something that kids did so you know they would ride their bikes back there and
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that the actual like dirt road that you went on or this Gravel Road that you went on I think it was like Loosely
00:25:49
graveled like mainly a dirt road but wow we put a little gravel down on there but
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I think this was a a road that was used by cars too so again like you were saying very common that these tracks
00:26:03
would be there so now the the property owner this is Lawson farmer Lawson and his neighbor
00:26:09
um they both come forward with the story that they saw a vehicle with that they dubbed a strange vehicle on the property
00:26:18
sometime that at night that's that's the best they could narrow it down was sometime that night
00:26:24
possibly after dark and the description they have of this vehicle is that it's a
00:26:31
52 possibly a 52 dark convertible possibly a Ford so not a very great description there but again like the
00:26:39
captain said in in kind of what we were leading to in the trailer there this is supposed to be an ordinary day
00:26:46
you might not notice you know you might not take note of a of a proper vehicle description just by seeing a vehicle
00:26:54
there somebody could use that that could be a place where people frequently turn
00:26:58
around in you know they figure out they're going the wrong way under the cover of Darkness though I'll tell you
00:27:04
what Captain that to me does not look like a place that I would pick to turn around in
00:27:09
um it doesn't seem it that's the only place on that that road but it doesn't seem to stand out enough for me is what
00:27:15
I'm saying if I were traveling in the dark I think that I I also have fields on on both sides so I think any time
00:27:25
you're on a country road and you see a split in the field that's your chance to turn around there's so much more to get
00:27:31
into let's get into that right after this quick beer break foreign we're back cheers mates and uh and a big
00:27:56
happy birthday to the the colonel oh thank you Captain it's the Colonel's birthday uh wait find him on untapped
00:28:03
follow him follow his drinking Journey you can harass me on untapped and and then tell him happy birthday he's he's
00:28:11
uh 47. if I'm not on on there for a while for a couple days 49 he's 49. all right all right never mind enough of
00:28:20
this all right Captain so 56. we have Harold Graham is a gentleman that is brought in to head the investigation he
00:28:28
is like a big shot you know they bring him in from out of the area to lead the investigation he tells the officers
00:28:37
um that they should be looking for a guy with obvious signs of injury mainly looking for persons that may have
00:28:44
scratches to the face hands and or arms um the thing here is that's what he tells the officers to be looking for
00:28:53
however that's not who they arrest and I'm going to jump ahead here a day because we'll go back into some of these
00:29:01
eyewitness accounts but I think we got to set this up properly and to do that we got to explain that on June 12th uh
00:29:09
shortly after 7 PM Stephen Truscott the 14 year old that had given the ride to Young Lynn Harper he's taken into into
00:29:18
custody and at about 2 30 a.m on June 13th he was charged with first degree murder yeah so he's questioned for how
00:29:28
many hours um it's about seven hours yeah that's responsible let's question a 14 year old
00:29:35
that is probably scared out of his mind with no parent present no lawyer present
00:29:41
we're going to question this individual for seven hours and this is also back in
00:29:46
this is in in the 50s this is back when you are allowed to have leading questions now if you're talking to a
00:29:54
minor you can't lead the question does that make sense right there's laws against that you can't you have to have
00:30:01
them uh create this scenario not you create this so again they're probably creating the scenario over and over well
00:30:09
Stephen even though he's interviewed for or interrogated however you want to call
00:30:13
it for seven hours on that Friday night he he never confesses um but he does get close I will say that
00:30:22
he becomes confused towards the end of the questioning and at some point um he tells the police about five that
00:30:30
he saw five boys uh that he saw playing in the river this is trying to solidify his story of you know I dropped her off
00:30:38
I rode my bike back to the bridge I stopped because I saw some kids I knew playing turned and saw her get into a
00:30:45
car um apparently he gets two of the boys wrong but I think here still three out
00:30:52
of five is pretty decent I I don't know the distance that he saw these kids are he just mistook two of them for other
00:30:58
kids he went to a pretty small school so he should know everybody's name but I mean how many times did you like run
00:31:06
into somebody and you're like well I I Know Jack and I know Timmy right but these other two guys I'm not really for
00:31:13
sure what their names are now there's a note here regarding this this uh interrogation that says that at some
00:31:21
point you know I said he became confused but at some point Stephen tells a doctor
00:31:26
so apparently there were doctors present and we'll get into that more here in a minute but at some point he tells a
00:31:32
doctor's present but no lawyer's present that he may have molested the girl that
00:31:37
he may have molested Lynn Harper but he couldn't remember um yeah I don't know what to make of
00:31:43
this because I wasn't in that room he's 14 years old and he's been he's been interviewed and interrogated for hours
00:31:50
by this point well you have to question if he even said that or did they put that on a piece of paper and he signed
00:31:57
his name to it and he you know so picture this we have him being asked all these questions tell us your story tell
00:32:04
us your story again tell us your story again and then an officer leaves and another one comes in ask him the same
00:32:10
questions tell us your story tell us your story again you know I I I'm I'm standing up for the
00:32:17
kid and saying that I can see how a 14 year old would become confused now regarding the doctor
00:32:24
um yeah but for seven hours though he stayed strong on his conviction that I I'm not responsible for her
00:32:31
disappearance I'm not responsible for her murder right you know I dropped her off at State Route eight and that's it
00:32:38
we didn't go in the bush right never happened and so yeah that's why this whole willy-nilly uh well maybe maybe I
00:32:47
molested her like no I I think that's all fabricated BS now after he's arrested he's like
00:32:55
checked for injury right they check his body for these injuries they're looking for somebody that may have had scratches
00:33:02
on them you know assuming they got DNA you know and they have skin and claw marks they know that she put up a fight
00:33:09
so and but now you're gonna arrest and charge this individual that has no signs of that right and he doesn't have any
00:33:18
signs of that but he does have a strange um let's say injury um they two of the doctors report that
00:33:27
he has two quarter-sized lesions on his penis um this this okay well the strange thing
00:33:36
here Captain is that well somebody he just ruined somebody's lunch well they said that these injuries were you know a
00:33:46
sign that he brutally raped the girl that these were the were injuries caused by friction now the thing here is he's
00:33:55
he's then uh checked out by a doctor the following day yeah the from the prison yeah and
00:34:03
this doctor says he has no signs of injury on his entire body at all and actually doesn't make any reference to
00:34:10
these lesions on the on his penis and I imagine this is something that was supposed to be checked
00:34:17
um regarding this um you know we would eventually get an answer for this Stephen triscott uh was
00:34:24
said to have been suffering from some kind of skin uh disorder and he would get these different lesions dermatitis
00:34:32
or something like that that he was being treated by his family doctor for on a number of occasions now the argument
00:34:40
here is that uh you know I don't know if this uh you know illness or whatever you want to call it
00:34:49
affects the the genitals um that I don't know I I don't know that Captain all I can state is that we have
00:34:57
two doctors saying he has this thing uh has these injuries to to the penis and one saying he doesn't I don't know it
00:35:05
might have been a chronic pocket pull player you know I'm gonna I'm gonna be honest here with everybody I don't know
00:35:11
how to make heads or tails of this portion of the story well look okay so maybe there was something there that
00:35:20
they're blowing out of proportion the third doctor didn't see it it's possible or this is just fictitious
00:35:27
[ __ ] that that they made up and then the third doctor that is not on team let's pin somebody for this murder I'm
00:35:36
just a doctor doing my job in the prison I didn't see anything you know it's unlikely that these big
00:35:42
lesions would get uh healed within 24 hours so again I think some of this stuff is
00:35:50
just fictitious like him saying possibly that oh I possibly molested her I look that could have just been made up too
00:35:57
you know we're they're creating a narrative here and that that is uh Dangerous Waters
00:36:04
well they're working under a theory now they they've pieced together a theory and the theory is this that that Stephen
00:36:11
Truscott never made it to the bridge with with Lynn on his bike that before they got to the bridge they veered off
00:36:18
and they went into Harper's bush and at some point he attacked raped and killed the girl and left her body there
00:36:26
that's the the very general basic theory that they're working under now we have several eyewitnesses and there's going
00:36:36
to be some problems with these eyewitnesses because we have well first of all they're all children
00:36:43
and we know how this can work we've seen this in several different situations are
00:36:48
you calling children stupid yes they're all very stupid no I'm joking don't please don't write
00:36:55
to the show it's my birthday uh somebody's gonna ride in I can't believe the colonel called all children stupid
00:37:03
just most of them so we have if you'd like to write into us that's a true crime garage at gmail.com put it on the
00:37:10
blog so everybody can see how bad of a person I am there so here's the eyewitnesses right Captain let's go
00:37:15
through these first of all the one that looks pretty tough if you're in the if you're in the defense seat here is this
00:37:22
Jocelyn Cadet okay she is somebody that that goes to school with Stephen true Scott I believe she's 12 or 13 at this
00:37:31
time okay um so she says that the day before the day before the um before Lynn Harper went missing
00:37:40
did Stephen Truscott tried to make up some kind of date with her you know let's let's book a date okay
00:37:47
um and this ladies man was to go to Lawson's Bush uh maybe for you know a little makeout session right uh this was
00:37:57
supposed to this was supposed to take place just before 6 p.m the evening of of Lynn going missing
00:38:06
now it's also reported that Steven trisk got stopped by Jocelyn's house that night to remind her of the date like hey
00:38:16
don't forget yeah so the thought is that he doesn't end up having this date with
00:38:20
Jocelyn he goes to the schoolyard that's where then Lynn asked him for the ride and he's like oh Plan B I'll take Lynn
00:38:29
Harper to the bush with me right I can talk her into this um we gotta kind of go through this in a in
00:38:37
a strange way Captain because there's a lot of information that's collected in the original investigation that will not
00:38:45
come out until later and it'll be obvious for why but I while we're on each eyewitness I want to kind of go
00:38:53
through them one at a time and discuss everything that we know about their accounts so we have a full story because
00:38:59
it'll get too confusing if we discuss it later so there's some question as to the
00:39:05
credibility of this Jocelyn Cadet story for several reasons okay first of all the saying that Stephen truce got
00:39:13
stopped by her house to remind her of the date right um there's a big question if that even
00:39:19
happened because Stephen Truscott says that I didn't ask her on a date I don't know what you're talking about right she
00:39:25
wishes their their wishes I asked her out on a date yeah there's some there's some things in the police notes that
00:39:32
they would discover later that would would kind of state that it's very unlikely that that situation happened
00:39:39
that Stephen trisk got stopped by to remind her of the date right um whether there was a date scheduled or
00:39:45
not that isn't so much called into question other than Stephen saying that we didn't we didn't have a date
00:39:51
scheduled now um she would later testify that she went to Lawson's Bush to look for Stephen and she also says that she
00:39:59
went to look for Steven triska at Lawson's Farm um again there's some different times on on on these things here yeah
00:40:10
because when she goes to the farm it's not like she just wanders around the farm she actually runs into the farmer
00:40:15
yeah she talks to the farmer asks him if he's seen Stephen true Scott and then later
00:40:24
after Stephen triscott is arrested she goes back to the farmer because there's some discrepancy in the time
00:40:31
that what time was she there asking and looking for Steven triscott right and she asked the farmer to
00:40:40
you know what time did it was I here oh well that's not the time I told them could you
00:40:45
could you make it the same time that I told them and he says no I can't do that yeah I'm not going to do that so
00:40:53
basically you know this hussy can I call her no you can't whatever she's she's making up stories that some
00:41:05
guy asked her out on a date right so we don't know if there was a date that's questionable uh Stephen says no she says
00:41:14
yes there's actually some letter to that kind of goes back and forth on that one
00:41:19
well the police notes somewhere it's noted by one of the investigators that that that that that didn't happen right
00:41:25
then the other thing is that he stopped by our house there's you know we're questioning that now and then she says
00:41:32
well I went to the bush and this is what time I told the law enforcement now if she was in that bush
00:41:39
and this attack was taking place wouldn't she see this individual right depending on what time depending
00:41:47
on what time and her time could be wrong she could have been looking for Steven at six o'clock remember they're supposed
00:41:52
to have this date at six o'clock I do believe that she's looking for Steven at some point that doesn't seem to be a
00:41:59
question because she the farmer backs up that part of the story the problem is that what hour was she actually out
00:42:06
looking for Stephen yeah and uh and this timing is going to come into question and do you want to get into that now
00:42:13
about the diamond the time of death yeah um yeah I guess we should because it might get confusing if we don't
00:42:22
so it's pretty simple um based on what she ate is how they figured out the time frame now they
00:42:29
figured out this time frame afterwards um basically once they started trying to pin this onto Stephen they had to make
00:42:37
sure that the murder took place within a certain time frame right because Steven
00:42:42
actually went somewhere that night yes and so he the murder would have to take place before he actually went there so
00:42:51
it's like before 7 45 I believe something like that yeah so well let's go through this real quick so we have
00:42:56
Lynn Harper who she left her home at 6 15 p.m that night and then she met Stephen truska around 7 P.M
00:43:05
um you know this is a casual meeting bumped into him um and now that's at 7 pm Stephen
00:43:11
triscott was seen back at the base around 8 p.m and then back at home afterwards and was babysitting so the
00:43:20
time of death here is extremely crucial and very important because the time of death would you basically have an hour
00:43:27
if Stephen truska is your guy then then Lynn Harper needed to to have died between about 7 15 and 7 45. uh if she
00:43:39
didn't die during that time then Stephen Truscott could not have murdered her right and so what time did they claim
00:43:46
that she died right so here's here's where we go with this so time of death huge the reports were prepared by a Dr
00:43:52
John peniston now peniston he his opinion was based on his examination of Lynn's stomach contents during the
00:44:00
autopsy uh and the last the the time of her last meal was reported at 5 45 p.m on June 9 1959. he told he would later
00:44:12
tell the jury that the stomach normally empties within two hours of eating and Lynn's stomach appeared to contain a
00:44:19
full meal meaning that she would have had to have died by 7 45. relying on these factors that peniston provided to
00:44:28
jurors with with his view that Lynn had died between 7 pm and 7 45 on June 9th uh this was a time when true Scott he
00:44:38
was admittedly in her company right you know so if Lynn was dead by 7 45 then it's basically a matter of logic that
00:44:47
Stephen Truscott killed her yeah and so a couple problems with this though is like when like we said when Stephen
00:44:53
returns to the base does he act strange no he doesn't act strange does he have attack marks on him no did the doctors
00:45:01
find attack marks on him no so those are some issues there the other issue here is then when experts come out and say
00:45:09
okay how much is this you know what kind of scientific evidence is this I've seen
00:45:16
several evidence or several experts now this is kind of talked about a lot like in the JonBenet Ramsey case right
00:45:25
uh I actually thought there was more of a science to this now to see these experts come out and say well actually
00:45:32
the only thing studying the stomach does is really kind of tells you the last meal or what's in the stomach but it
00:45:41
doesn't give you much of a timeline so for example if you took this evidence now we're talking in the 50s this test
00:45:49
was done doing this test now would give you a window of about 12 hours so so technical technology is way more
00:45:59
advanced now science way more advanced now and you're going to give a time frame of about 12 hours
00:46:06
well let's let's let's play along for now okay let's pretend that that you're able to come up with that precise time
00:46:14
of death the time of death that precise within a what I say half an hour 45 minutes
00:46:19
so that what that means then Captain is that if she died during that time Stephen triscott did it especially if we
00:46:27
can prove that nobody saw the two of them together on the bridge or at Highway eight because then that means
00:46:35
our theory is right that Stephen Truscott left with Lynn on his handlebars veered off into the the bush
00:46:42
area never made it to the bridge never made it to Highway 8. he attacks rapes and kills her there and then returns
00:46:49
back to the base on his bicycle right so now we have to get some people to say that uh you know he he wasn't
00:46:57
where he said he was he didn't drop her off like he said he did so this is where
00:47:02
we we enter a character named Butch George um he told another boy that he saw Stephen Truscott with Lynn in the bush
00:47:13
um he was not called at the trial though um because there seems to be some question as to his accountability his
00:47:23
credibility um because his story changes often now remember Jocelyn Cadet that we just
00:47:29
spoke about she says that she bumped into Butch George on the road the night of the murderer the night that she
00:47:35
disappeared and asked Butch if she had seen Stephen triscott Butch says no uh Butch's story like I said would change
00:47:43
many times that's part of that is just being a scared kid at some point he does tell
00:47:50
law enforcement that he saw Stephen triska on the bridge uh and then later was he also LED that well he he's he
00:47:59
says he only said that because Stephen Truscott asked him to say that okay now we have Philip Burns this is this kid is
00:48:07
only 10 years old he's walking on the road this is the road where you know he should have seen Stephen triska in in
00:48:16
Lynn Harper traveling together he he's walking on this road just after 7 pm he says he never saw Lynn Harper never
00:48:25
saw Stephen triska on the road at that time so police now believe that if they were not on the road because of what
00:48:33
Philip Burns says ten-year-old Philip Burns if they're not on the road at this time it's because the boy didn't see
00:48:39
them because they were in the bush at this time okay well now we have some arguments
00:48:44
against all of that at the river down at the river playing at the river remember the boys in the
00:48:50
river we have Dougie Oates he says he saw the two of them on the bike he sees Lynn Harper Stephen
00:48:59
triscott on the bike they cross the bridge they're heading toward Highway 8. there's the is Dougie close to the
00:49:07
bridge or he's is he far away from the bridge um from my notes Here is that he's at
00:49:12
the river playing alongside the uh the bank there okay um I don't know how close he is to the river because there's
00:49:19
two eyewitnesses two major eyewitnesses from the river right the one that's on the bank and then the one that's further
00:49:26
down in the river fishing yes the one that the boy that's fishing in the river his name is Gordon Logan okay well let's
00:49:32
stay on dougie dougie oats that's a good rap name so Dougie Oates says he saw the two of
00:49:38
them on the bike crossed the bridge head toward Highway 8. so that backs up Steven triscott's story we have Gordon
00:49:46
Logan who says the same exact thing he says he saw Stephen Truscott traveling uh going over the bridge and then later
00:49:54
sees Stephen Truscott on his bike by himself so this whole story matches up with
00:50:01
Steven triscott's the police don't like this story okay so you have Gordon Logan
00:50:06
who's further away from the bridge and they basically discredit Gordon Logan's story because they say you know what
00:50:12
from that distance he wouldn't have been able to tell who's on the bike he wouldn't be able to you know
00:50:18
discern if it's uh Timmy or John or George or or buck you know he wouldn't be able to tell who was on that bike
00:50:26
regarding Dougie oats though their their statement whether he's telling the truth
00:50:31
is complete is a lot more strange to me where they say you know what these boys are buddies with Stephen Truscott
00:50:39
they're just kind of banding together and they're going to have his back they're probably making up a story that
00:50:46
they saw him with Lynn Harper past the bridge right we can't believe this story of these kids saying that but let's go
00:50:54
back to Philip burns the 10 year old who's walking alone on the road who says he doesn't see uh Stephen true
00:51:01
Scott he doesn't see Lynn Harper we can believe the 10 year old but we're not going to believe these two boys that
00:51:06
were in the river were playing by the river to believe in whatever whatever individual tells them the story that
00:51:13
they need to append this on Stephen that's that's what they believe 10 year old kid no watch
00:51:20
look when I was 16 I couldn't tell you what time it was if I didn't have a watch right or even close what time is
00:51:28
it Now's the Time okay so but here Captain I want to throw this out there too though with this Philip Burns 10 years
00:51:35
old walking by himself doesn't see them however we have other Witnesses other children that say that they saw Philip
00:51:45
Burns walking that they passed Philip Burns walking on the street that they rode their bike past Philip Burns and he
00:51:51
doesn't report having seen those children either so it's not that he didn't see them so it didn't happen and
00:51:58
it's he didn't notice them they they could have very well there was a bunch of people right is what you're saying
00:52:04
right he could these it's it's likely that these kids could have traveled past him on a bike and he may not have seen
00:52:10
them for whatever reason this kid was in his own world or past 20 people I didn't
00:52:15
see him I didn't see anything or Phil Burns is just confused about the whole situation or yeah
00:52:22
again to the the difficult thing here for me is this happened on a Wednesday she went missing on a Tuesday night okay
00:52:30
so Tuesday but still you got the day before you have school the day before then you have the school the day after
00:52:36
because they don't find her body right away right so that you know we talk about this a lot with the Adnan Syed
00:52:42
case the quest you know there's so many conflicting stories because they questioned so much later but we're
00:52:48
talking about kids that are a lot younger a 10 year old 12 year old they're they're not going to remember
00:52:53
what ha if it happened on a Monday Tuesday or a Wednesday you know I mean so I think the cops just went hey well
00:53:01
this story fits our narrative so let's go with that and then I think they started doing this thing when they
00:53:07
started burying all the stuff that contradicted it and and stopped trying to do work and yes this horrible thing
00:53:15
happened to a very young individual a 12 year old girl but you you gotta do your job you gotta
00:53:24
just do your due diligence you or you are um you are paid it's your duty to find
00:53:30
Justice not just find anybody that you can pin it on but the problem here though is there are
00:53:38
issues with Stephen triscott's story 100 There's issues there and what I'm gonna
00:53:43
do here Captain to kind of clean this up a bit because this thing's a mess I'd like to start with the idea that
00:53:49
he's a 14 year old boy there's going to be some again does he know the time look
00:53:55
all he's trying to do is tell you what he can remember well to clean this up a bit I say we
00:54:00
throw out all of these eyewitness accounts that's what I would do I mean the good and the Bad and the Ugly all of
00:54:08
them you got I think you got you have to throw them out I can't I can't sit here
00:54:12
and believe that he wasn't seen at a certain time and then have other people tell me that he was seen it you can't
00:54:19
pick one or the other you know it one only one of those versions work only one of them happened I I don't to me I can't
00:54:27
pick between the two so I think you throw them both out well yeah if you look at his story it's pretty simple I
00:54:33
pick her up at the school the drive past the bush would drive past the bridge we stop at the stop sign
00:54:39
State Route 8 drop her off I drive I ride my bike back to the bridge by the time I'm back at the bridge looking at
00:54:47
people playing I look back I see her get into a car later on I go back to the base then I go to babysit that's his
00:54:57
story right right what are the obvious problems you see with that story though as an investigator I'm looking at this
00:55:04
thing and I have obvious problems with this young man's story I I don't have any problems with that
00:55:10
story but okay so my first issue is why does why does she all of a sudden want off the bike if the whole plan was
00:55:19
in this I call this into question a little bit too if you're almost to the destination why
00:55:25
not just continue to to receive the ride to the the destination point you know you're not very juicy felt bad
00:55:33
for for you know asking for a ride you know to the complete thing when she knows that he's just gonna go play at
00:55:42
the bridge we're talking about 12 year old and 14 year olds right I mean no I know that I know that but a
00:55:51
lot of rhyme and reason here but I have to make heads or tails of this thing right so so first of all I have a
00:55:57
problem with it seems like she there we're going to this this predetermined destination and then all of a sudden I
00:56:04
need off the bike yeah but it's not clear what she asked for you're right there's you know because she could have
00:56:10
just said hey can you take me to the stop sign yeah I'm going that way anyways right and it's not that much
00:56:16
further from the bridge right you know that's a lot different than can you take me to and you're gonna ride your bike on
00:56:22
a state route I mean I I don't know the area that well but it seems like the the
00:56:26
road that they're on was Less Traveled than the state route eight so maybe it was one of those things where it's like
00:56:34
yeah well I can take you to the stop sign but you know I really shouldn't be riding my bike on this road yeah who
00:56:39
knows but that's not clear so you can't sit there and say well I have a problem with this because it's not clear but
00:56:45
it's not clear from the beginning so it's not you know that there's nothing nefarious going on with
00:56:52
Stephen's story there it's not clear what you're right but but that's I can have a problem with it being unclear I
00:56:59
perfectly can and I'll tell you what that doesn't point to innocence or guilt well there is some question as to if she
00:57:06
wanted a ride to that specific location or if she just wanted to ride to the highway I'll give you that much right
00:57:12
but then we have the other strange statement of okay if she only wanted to ride to the highway then then when I get
00:57:19
you to that point why would you say I'll hitchhike the rest of the way it just doesn't it doesn't ring true to
00:57:27
me it seems very odd for several reasons one is she going to hitchhike there and
00:57:33
how's she going to get back she's going to hitchhike on the way back yeah but I never heard that come from Stephen I
00:57:39
that you know that those statements that I heard about the hitchhiking came from
00:57:42
the law enforcement and I'd argue that you have seven hours of interrogation you also have seven hours of leading the
00:57:49
witness you have seven hours of leading a 14 year old kid into a story that you want to hear
00:57:56
so what did they write down what notes did they make what were correct what what things were correct and what was
00:58:02
not correct I mean you got two doctors saying that there's lesions on this kid's penis and one doctor not even
00:58:08
making references to it right you think this would be a big deal and there's constantly things like so again so what
00:58:15
what did the detectives write down of importance and and and then in their notes what they wrote down was that
00:58:23
actual statements from Stephen or just [ __ ] that they're writing down on a piece of paper
00:58:28
and the other thing is what actually comes out in court you know because the prob a big problem with this case is
00:58:36
going to be that when they try Steven Truscott back then the the prosecutors didn't have to provide everything they
00:58:44
didn't have to be fully disclosed all of the information that they had collected
00:58:48
throughout the investigation to the defense team so what they're able to do is they're able to
00:58:54
conduct their investigation collect as much evidence as they can as much information as they can and they're able
00:59:02
to sift through it and then say okay you're preparing for your defense here's a portion of what we've collected and
00:59:09
what we found along the way and you can build your defense against that well right and so here's the story that we
00:59:16
came up with this fits our narrative the problem is is if you give the rest of the notes that the police officers had
00:59:23
that contradicts The Narrative period so the cops should have said look we we don't have a clear story because every
00:59:32
time that we start getting somewhere some lead way guess what happens somebody else comes along and
00:59:38
contradicts it right now if it just happens once okay maybe it's just the eyewitnesses you know mess up right but
00:59:47
it happens over and over and over you you have to take a step back you're the adult here
00:59:54
and you got to take a step back and go well maybe this this isn't our kid right this isn't this isn't the person that
01:00:01
we're looking for all right Captain I think that we have to kind of put a bow on this for now because we're running
01:00:07
out of time but there's a lot more to discuss here so to kind of clear this up we have on September 16th Stephen
01:00:14
truscott's trial began all the evidence presented in court was basically circumstantial uh it's centered on
01:00:22
placing Lynn Harper's time of death uh within that very narrow time frame which implicated Stephen triscott
01:00:31
um like we said there were there were only certain sides of the argument that were presented at this trial now a big
01:00:38
problem here for the public and for the citizens was that they decided to charge
01:00:43
Steven triska as an adult which means that he's going to be sentenced to death if he's convicted he had death by
01:00:51
hanging this was a very controversial thing at the time um you know we don't often see minors
01:00:58
being charged and sentenced to death he was ultimately convicted of this and he was sentenced to death
01:01:06
um there are a lot of things that didn't come out in that trial that we need to get to and we'll cover those as well as
01:01:11
is he guilty not guilty in our eyes and are there other potential suspects out there that could have done this
01:01:26
all right again happy birthday to the colonel we'll be back tomorrow in the garage make sure you go to the store
01:01:32
Page we have the douche canoe shirts what we did was we made them green with a blue letters this time because I was
01:01:40
getting tired of that blue so we a bunch of people asked for him yes back by popular demand we were receiving many
01:01:48
emails every week about the return of the douche canoe so you can go to the website right now True Crime garage.com
01:01:56
click on the store Page uh pre-order one of those shirts today thanks to everybody for joining us in the garage
01:02:02
today we'll see you back here tomorrow until then be good be kind and don't let him
01:02:15
thank you [Music] [Applause] [Music]