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[Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
00:01:47
for listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man who is actually seven but he looks much older
00:01:54
he is the captain well my middle name is Benjamin it's good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening
00:02:00
thanks for telling a [Music] friend today we are drinking Aztec death Whistle by tactical Brewing Company
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tactical is brewing up some amazing beers with equally amazing beer can artwork and this Imperial white Stout is
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delicious with an ABV of 9% garage grade 4 and a half bottle caps out of five and
00:02:27
sheers to our amazing garage Army specifically here's a shout out to Catherine who is feeling FY in Allentown
00:02:35
Pennsylvania and a big we like your JP to Kimberly and Marshall North Carolina and a huge thank you and cheers to
00:02:43
Steven in beautiful Santa Barbara California and a big shout out to Carrie in Goodletsville Tennessee next up
00:02:50
Captain we have Benjamin or as I like to say Benjamin in Parts Unknown most recently voted safest city in America by
00:03:00
where it's at magazine and also in beautiful Parts Unknown we have Ashley and Michael Parts Unknown was also named
00:03:07
the sexiest city in the whole universe well thanks to everyone that contributed to this week's beer fund the
00:03:15
feeling FY reference comes from an old t-shirt that we put out after four after a four-part series titled boys on the
00:03:23
tracks which came out back in March of 2017 episodes 93 4 5 and 96 all of the old episodes are available
00:03:33
for free on the free to download Stitcher app and all of our t-shirts and other merchandise are available on the
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store Page at true Crim garage.com and guess what that's enough of the business all right everybody gather around grab a
00:03:47
chair grab a beer let's talk some true cribe let let's talk some true [Music] CRI
00:04:03
[Music] Captain we went through the case and much of the details of the case and
00:04:18
covered it pretty well yesterday what I want to get to today is we have several things way to give yourself a bat on the
00:04:24
back oh you're welcome you know you're welcome world we really did a great job well there are several things that I
00:04:31
want to get through today and get your opinion on and kind of dissect them a little bit because there are a lot of
00:04:38
question marks in this case in this still unsolved case when we went through the details one thing that we were
00:04:46
talking about is how fast the gunmen moved and all the actions that they took to get in there get whatever they were
00:04:53
looking for or presumably get the cash that they were seeking out flee the area after afterward one thing I've often
00:05:01
wondered about this case were the gunmen waiting for 9:00 a.m. to make their way
00:05:06
into the bowling alley we know that we have employees inside of the bowling alley and they're active and they're
00:05:13
working at 8:00 a.m. but the bowling alley was not scheduled to open until 900 a.m. I wonder with the short amount
00:05:21
of time and given how close we were to 9:00 a.m. were the gunmen outside waiting for that 9:00 hour to hit
00:05:30
and as soon as those doors were to be unlocked make their way inside No I say I say nay I say these individuals knew
00:05:38
what time the employees arrived and this crime happening in 1990 I would guess if this happened
00:05:46
today what you could do simply is go back through your surveillance footage for the last couple weeks because I
00:05:54
believe these individuals would have been there would have been around that area would have been casing this bowling
00:06:00
alley for quite some time to have this information yeah I think a couple of possibilities could be likely here and
00:06:08
of course we there's no way to know for sure until we bust these guys until these guys are apprehended we may not
00:06:14
know why they did what they did or exactly how they planned what they did but what I think we see here is what we
00:06:22
talked about yesterday it appears that they already decided on the plan because they're moving very fast Through the
00:06:30
Motions to get back out and to flee the area the thing that I think that we we might be looking at some possibilities
00:06:39
you know often when these businesses are hit a lot of times you want to hit them
00:06:43
when they're closed because you don't want to have the added risk factor of additional people being inside the
00:06:50
building customers so often what these offenders will do is they will hang around outside of a place and they will
00:07:00
wait for things that will cause the doors to be open or unlocked you know deliveries or employees coming and going
00:07:10
from the building to a car often what an offender or robber will do is wait for someone simply to take out the trash
00:07:19
jump them stick a gun in their side out in the parking lot and walk back into the establishment with them take the
00:07:27
money that they're looking for and then flee the area right I think we could have one of two things either yes maybe
00:07:35
they were waiting for 9:00 a.m. seems like they arrived a little early to just be standing around a place that you are
00:07:43
going to eventually Rob right but if they were standing there waiting around to rob the joint maybe they saw Steve
00:07:52
CAC enter and then exit the building both times without having to use a key or locking the door behind him right and
00:08:00
thought you know what as soon as this dude pulls away we're going to walk in to the place and take it over or maybe
00:08:07
it was as simple as they were going to walk up and knock on the door and if the person opened up shove a gun in their
00:08:15
face and work their way in to me if it if it were me trying to pull this thing off I would want to avoid that 9 a.m.
00:08:23
when there could be additional people coming in in and out of the building with the customers and the doors being
00:08:29
open and the business being in operation at that time well maybe not so much if it was a Monday or Tuesday but this is a
00:08:37
Saturday this is going to be a lot busier of a day for the bowling alley that's why I think the level of
00:08:43
sophistication of these criminals is very high I would I'd even look into somebody that had some military
00:08:51
background I'd also like to know if there was a set schedule of who open cuz we know that the daughter opened up so
00:09:00
I'm assuming some days the daughter open up and some days the father would open up or possibly her brother which again
00:09:09
if you're two men with a gun it's less likely of a risk that somebody's going to fight back if they're female mhm
00:09:17
right or if they did fight back you have a better chance of controlling the situation so did these perpetrators know
00:09:25
that there was a schedule there was a system and and that's again that would be little things that I think you could
00:09:33
find out if they had the surveillance footage of this buling alley right and just to throw a little tidbit of
00:09:42
information in there on what you were talking about one thing that's interesting is the
00:09:48
owner he Ronald cak at the time he was living in the bowling alley but he was not there that weekend he was in I
00:09:57
believe he was in Era Iona on a golf trip that weekend well and think about this there there possibly are people
00:10:07
that could connect these individuals to the owner or to the bowling alley or to other people that
00:10:16
they knew but but they're dead so we we don't have that evidence again that would be more motive of why did they
00:10:25
they didn't have to kill these individuals MH but if you were connected to the owner or you're connected to the
00:10:32
bowling alley if these people could identify you any way shape or form then that that's motive to get rid of all of
00:10:39
them right and then speaking to that you know you have two suspects according to
00:10:44
the survivors and what we know about the case and eyewitnesses and such these suspects did not wear mask or gloves
00:10:52
right when I look at this case I go why wouldn't you just put on a freaking mask
00:10:59
and some gloves and go in there Rob The Joint make off with whatever money you can and not hurt anybody yeah but which
00:11:07
eyewitnesses are saying that they didn't wear gloves the survivors in the bowling
00:11:13
alley that were robbed and shot by these two guys mhm and we also have Steve CAC outside
00:11:21
who says you know I didn't they weren't in mask or gloves when he saw them either well no I buy the fact that
00:11:26
they're not again in mask cuz again maybe you know that these eyewitnesses are going to be able to identify you
00:11:34
whether you're wearing a mask or not MH the glove part doesn't make a lot of sense to me you'd think how militant
00:11:41
they were that they would wear some protections because that's a identifying factor is your fingerprint well that
00:11:48
also leads us back to a big question that we've been circling around for a portion of yesterday is could this have
00:11:58
been some type of of inside job okay if these guys either one of them had worked
00:12:04
at this place before they would have been busted by now so nobody's speculating that you know because that's
00:12:10
typically what you get with some of these robberies where it's a former employee and they know the daily
00:12:18
routines and operations of that business right here what I mean is did we have somebody feeding them some kind of
00:12:27
information because it does seem like you pointed out that the two gunmen knew some stuff about the Saturday
00:12:34
operations of the bowling alley right it appears to me judging by what the set of
00:12:40
events that we have during the commission of that robbery and the murders it appears to me based off what
00:12:47
the survivors are saying and how things went down that these guys knew the general location of the employees well
00:12:56
let me run something by you that kind of stuck out to me but maybe I'm crazy well we know I'm crazy but so we
00:13:05
have a situation where we have the employees at the bowling alley they're all female until the brother shows up
00:13:13
mhm so the brother shows up but then he leaves mhm I wonder if these individuals
00:13:19
knew that all the all these women are going to come in to start the day and that we have a technician that's going
00:13:26
to come in and he's male so once they see that this male entered the building now all the people that are
00:13:35
going to be there before it opens are now in the building mhm so then they get out to start approaching the building
00:13:43
and he comes walking out they go well now now this is a lot easier because we knew that the technician coming in was
00:13:52
male so there I'm guessing that these uh perpetrators believe that that was the technician but now he's leaving okay
00:14:00
well that's easier for us let's walk in mhm why they didn't lock the door behind
00:14:06
them I don't know but again I'm assuming that they believe that everybody was now
00:14:12
in the building but they just saw that guy leave and drive off and then that's why they would have been surprised by
00:14:18
the technician showing up yeah that's a good question why wouldn't they have just flip the
00:14:24
lock themselves but they but that's my belief is they they believe that uh the brother was the the the technician and
00:14:33
he already left so we don't have to worry about him now well my other guess though too would be that you need a key
00:14:40
regardless on what side of the door that you're on to lock the door because you don't want some jackass kid going out
00:14:48
there and locking your door in the middle of business so um or some non jackass kid for that matter yeah he was
00:14:55
just trying to be safe you're call you're calling name I'm sorry po poor child poor jackass kid but so the thing
00:15:03
that really kind of upset me here was the the location of the employees right how quickly they move inside the gunman
00:15:10
and then very quickly one of them knows to go into the kitchen immediately like they knew before they got in the
00:15:17
building to expect an employee to be inside that kitchen working right and that's very troubling to me and and
00:15:26
where I took that a step further and just really speculating and being suspicious of everyone was I was like
00:15:33
[ __ ] man this Steve cak he provides a description of this really kind of weird
00:15:39
story right he Des he describes the two gunmen or the people he believes could be the gunman mhm and then we never find
00:15:47
these guys so I wondered for a while like was he somehow involved if this was an inside job did he pull up in the
00:15:55
parking lot that day to one make sure that the guys that were hired by whomever were there and then he's like
00:16:04
oh maybe he found the door locked went in grabbed his book bag and purposely left it unlocked on his way out then the
00:16:13
he pulls off the gunmen make their way in I was very highly suspicious of the cak family and Steve cak and the owner
00:16:22
Ronald scac was he did he just happen to be out of town on the weekend that the right Mur place or was conviently out of
00:16:30
town yeah then we have the issue of Ida okay she was the one working in the kitchen she gives a description that is
00:16:39
very similar to what Steve gave and she survived the attack from the inside and was shot several times I don't think
00:16:46
that it's convenient I don't think that Steve put himself there to unlock the door for these gunmen I think that that
00:16:53
whole horrible weird coincidence of the door being unlocked was just just one of
00:16:58
those weird freak things that took place and these gunmen were going to do whatever they set out to do anyway
00:17:06
regardless of the the state of the lock on that door yeah well CU if he would have just went out to his car again and
00:17:13
just put his book bag back in his car and went back in these these murderers they're coming in no matter
00:17:22
what whether Steve's there or not mhm again I think they knew how many people were supposed to be there and whether
00:17:29
they're whether or not they're supposed to be male or female well the thing too is let's say they did have some prior
00:17:37
knowledge because if if they did have prior knowledge they could have been working
00:17:44
under the assumption that there was only going to be two employees there right we
00:17:50
would have the manager the day manager would be there regardless their duty is to open up the bowling alley for the day
00:17:58
m mhm it sounds to me like some form of kitchen employee or kitchen staff member
00:18:03
is going to be there on a busy Saturday prepping regardless if it's Ida a woman a man whomever so now we got two people
00:18:13
inside the building before 9ine I think where it gets a little iffy if you did have some Intel about what would be
00:18:24
going on that Saturday morning is Ron cak the owner being gone out of town that might be unforeseeable to whomever
00:18:32
provided that information also we have the two girls who were with Stephanie cak in the
00:18:40
office that morning I would bet you there's a good chance that these guys may not have anticipated one or both of
00:18:49
those girls being there now we do know that they were there to work that day they were going to run the daycare
00:18:55
center at the bowling alley that day we could also presume that if they expected
00:19:02
to be out before the mechanic arrived his his shift may not have started till 9: maybe he shows up early that day I
00:19:09
don't know but but the other thing is we they wouldn't anticipate him showing up
00:19:14
with two daughters with him they're not scheduled to work obviously they're little kids right so they might have
00:19:21
been surprised by how many people were at the bowling alley I think that they were I mean this is seven victims here
00:19:27
no no I think they were surprised by the technician but again the the other thing
00:19:32
that hurts us in this case is it's 1990 it's a bowling alley most of the transactions at that time would have
00:19:38
been cash cash money you know I used to go bowling all the time couple times a week and it was cash right and most
00:19:45
people would use cash in 1990 these these individuals they I believe wholeheartedly they knew all the ins and
00:19:54
outs they knew this was going to take them 10 to 15 minutes and we just have to be very um a matter of fact about it
00:20:03
and I think they were surprised by the technician and the fact that he brought his two daughters because because they
00:20:09
knew that there was a technician I just believe they they thought Steve was the technician these individuals probably
00:20:15
went bowling the Saturday the before so they would have known also that there was a daycare open but were they
00:20:23
expecting for there to be two children with the technician I think they were surprised by that yeah and that but see
00:20:30
that's the terrifying thing to me is that I don't feel like I can't look at anything in this case and go okay that's
00:20:38
the thing that set these guys off and then they decided to shoot all these people oh that was Prett meditated right
00:20:45
it's like they went in there going no matter what happens we're shooting them yeah you know like we we covered the
00:20:52
Lane Bryant case and you can point to oh the the perpetrator of that caught somebody on on the phone with 911 we
00:21:00
don't know for certain if that shooter would have shot them or not but what we do know is there was a 911 call that
00:21:07
took place and then the shooting started right we have no situation like that in
00:21:12
this case and we also don't have any eyewitnesses or any survivors saying that there was any discussion between
00:21:19
these these guys there's no all two guys huddled in the corner going now what do
00:21:23
we do there's seven people and that's what I'm saying this is this is a level of sophistication
00:21:28
these these guys aren't dummies that's also another reason why the case is not solved these guys aren't dummies they
00:21:37
knew like I said it's step by step by step right and it didn't matter that now you have
00:21:44
again I think um less level of sophistication less like again military MH somebody that has killed before once
00:21:54
those children are involved that's a whole another level but as as far as sick and
00:22:03
and twisted and level a piece of [ __ ] that you have to be so that's another level but they didn't hesitate oh now
00:22:10
there's children here get in the office by the way we're shooting you all and we're setting the goddamn place on fire
00:22:16
and they're setting the office on fire not the whole building they're we're we're our the purpose of the fire is to
00:22:23
get rid of the evidence and the ey Witnesses yeah yeah to get get rid of the evidence of the men being in that
00:22:30
office and to to confuse and convolute the whole me already me messy situation and the thing that drives me nuts is
00:22:40
this seems so familiar on so many levels to like the yogurt shop murders again a situation where we have
00:22:49
all female workers we're going to we're going to get into that bit of it here in
00:22:54
a minute and I'm glad that you brought that up but one thing I want to make sure that I point out before we move on
00:23:00
too far and I forget about it is Ida one of our survivors the the lady working in
00:23:05
the kitchen that morning she says and there are a couple other people too and I couldn't find people by name you know
00:23:13
reference by name having said this but what I found was Ida and others have said this that they think that they have
00:23:22
seen these two men in the bowling alley before and that weren't their bowling they weren't there shooting pool they
00:23:32
weren't really interacting with anybody they were just kind of sitting there looking around now that would explain
00:23:39
some of the things because you don't have to have Insider information from somebody that works there owns the place
00:23:46
or previously worked there to get an idea of the daily operations right you can you can go in there and you can sit
00:23:54
around and you can go you know what all right I see employees coming in and out of this room over here at this location
00:24:01
that must be like some kind of office or something oh and over there by the bar or by the tables I see employees coming
00:24:07
in and out of that room that must be a kitchen oh we got this huge bowling alley 32 lanes and that's really where I
00:24:13
see the majority of the workers congregating right those are our two places to be concerned with once we come
00:24:21
in here when there's no customers right and it's just like the guitar store I used to work at like we opened up every
00:24:28
day at 10: MH so all you have to do is show up a couple times when we open but chances are you would have seen if you
00:24:36
got there 10 minutes early the lights didn't even turn on till 5 minutes before we open mhm meaning these
00:24:44
employees haven't been there for the last hour sitting in the dark so if you're going to rob a place like that
00:24:51
you you wait till it opens at 10:00 and you also know that there's not a bunch of customers at 10:00 especially like on
00:24:57
Monday or Tuesday but in this case they're they 45 minutes roughly 45 minutes to 30 minutes
00:25:07
earlier than the doors were supposed to open so I mean this is this is again maybe it's not that they're getting
00:25:16
their uh Intel from Insider Scoops but it's them casing The Joint right and you know what you could case The Joint to
00:25:26
figure out where the employees are are spending most of their time to to have areas to focus on once you enter the
00:25:32
building you don't have to even go in on a Friday night to know that they're busy
00:25:36
you can drive by the parking lot and see how many cars are in the thing to know that hey they're busy they make a lot of
00:25:43
money on Friday nights now the difficult thing here is to know that the money that the cash from the night before is
00:25:51
going to be in the building the morning after that's the difficult thing because
00:25:56
not every business business operates that way some businesses do night deposits after the business closes you
00:26:04
could follow employees after a Friday night shift and go all right not a single one of them
00:26:11
went to the bank so they're not depositing the money but that makes it more difficult when the owner lives at
00:26:17
the bologo alley right that I don't know if there would be any way for them to know
00:26:23
that they were a former employee correct and again I I really believe if they were former employees this case would be
00:26:30
solved yeah unless there was something that the owner did that these guys had something on him and and this was like a
00:26:38
way of them showing him hey we're we're serious guys that you don't want to mess
00:26:43
with yeah but they shot his granddaughter and his daughter and his daughter even though she survived years
00:26:49
later she died from the injuries from that attack yeah so it's like I I mean what do you have on the guy that that he
00:26:58
doesn't go screw it I don't care what these guys have on me I'm telling the cops everything I know cuz they they
00:27:05
they tried to kill my family yeah and they killed little kids of people that I know so it you know I I don't really and
00:27:13
look here's here's the thing Ronald cak and there's people out there that know this case really well and they're going
00:27:19
to go Ronald cak's a suspicious dude he's look he's not a likable guy I'm not going to sit here and pretend like he's
00:27:25
a likable guy he's your favorite and you know we have people that in interviews say he's not a likable guy
00:27:32
the police didn't like him the police said you know this guy was out talking to everybody after the after the case
00:27:38
took place after the shootings took place he's out telling them stuff that isn't true they looked into Ron CAC and
00:27:45
whether you like the guy or not at the end of the day what we have is we have detectives saying we looked at this dude
00:27:51
super hardcore we put him under a microscope looked at every aspect of his business dealings and his life yeah we
00:27:57
spread his cheeks we looked inside and we couldn't find any illegal activity you know the guy was not a smart
00:28:05
businessman he had a successful bowling alley that he ended up losing it in an auction in a court-ordered auction I
00:28:14
believe less than a year or maybe one full year after the shooting but he was not a smart business
00:28:20
guy he was not a likable guy but if I really believe dude if he was anyhow involved in this or looking for some
00:28:28
kind of insurance scam or whatever that I think they would have found this cuz they really honed in on him something
00:28:35
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[Music] cheers mates Cheers Cheers Cheers I can't stop looking at this picture of the suspects
00:31:08
mhm these these uh composite drawings and just thinking Sharman Sharman charman all right Captain well I want to
00:31:18
discuss how did these two suspects make such a clean getaway they were basically
00:31:23
undetected yes they were seen fleeing on foot by one person but I've often wondered were they running to a vehicle
00:31:32
or were they running to a nearby house or building to kind of hide out for a little bit one thing that we talked
00:31:42
about when we discussed the I5 killer and it's weird to go into the story and say I5 killer but for those
00:31:49
that don't know the story the I5 killer was also a robber and he was a very experienced robber and in fact sometimes
00:31:57
he would go in and rob a place and not kill anybody but one thing that he learned along the way in his robbery
00:32:04
career was that a vehicle is a really good way to get detected to get identified and get picked up and
00:32:13
arrested for these robberies and in his case the killings so he learned very early on that it was not wise for him to
00:32:21
park his vehicle near the place he was robbing so he would often park it blocks and block walks away because this dude
00:32:29
was pretty athletic the I5 killer he would Rob the place sometimes kill the person and then he would flee on foot
00:32:37
and then get to his vehicle and then drive off I thought maybe that might be what these dudes were doing maybe they
00:32:44
want to flee on foot and then make a a dash for the Border but then we we have a very big
00:32:51
difference between these two different people the the I5 killer and the unknown gunman at Las
00:32:58
cruus the I5 killer was wearing a mask and gloves when he committed his crimes so he did not want to be detected or
00:33:07
identified where the Los cruus gunmen they're not wearing mask or gloves then you have to take it a step
00:33:14
further and go well how much do they really care if their vehicle is spotted right but see again that almost makes me
00:33:22
think maybe they didn't have a vehicle to to run to right but I I also wonder if my theory is correct that these guys
00:33:29
case the joint for a while that they would have thought the brother was the technician and that got and then maybe
00:33:38
thinking that the technician doesn't show up everybody else shows up around 8:00 technician shows up about
00:33:45
8:30 well we have an individual showing up in between that time so he would have
00:33:51
been early if he was the technician did that startle them so they weren't able to put on their mask or their gloves
00:33:59
they went oh there's a technician we got to go Oh you mean for the purpose of fleeing no I mean that they startled
00:34:07
them at the beginning so before they entered the building they didn't put on their mask or gloves yeah I I don't know
00:34:14
um I would think if they brought mask and gloves with them they would have put them on regardless of the
00:34:20
situation we do have a a statement by the LCPD they have stated in the past and this is pure speculation on their
00:34:29
part as well that they believe that the two gunmen may have had some type of help that someone may have sheltered the
00:34:36
two of them shortly after so they could lay low and then maybe flee the area at another time I have a hard time
00:34:45
believing that they just kind of hung around Los crues for the next 30 years because as said their pictures were
00:34:52
plastered everywhere and we have Steve cak saying that is exactly what you drew looks exactly like the two guys that I
00:35:00
saw and then we have Ida backing that up we have the other witness that says hey
00:35:04
people that look like that I saw them running from the area what's interesting is that kind of plays a part into this
00:35:11
next portion where a woman named Irma tiina comes forward at some point and says
00:35:18
hey I think that the two gunmen were staying with me when they committed the crimes she says that there were two guys
00:35:27
and I believe they were involved in some kind of illegal drug activity at the time that were staying with her and when
00:35:35
the helicopters were flying around looking for the two gunmen who fled the bowling alley she says one of them said
00:35:42
to the other one we're right under their noses and they don't even know it this is a little weird this is a really weird
00:35:50
portion of the story for me Captain because this Irma this Irma Tien she passes a polygraph but at some point the
00:35:58
police like she recants her statement saying that she was just looking to I'm a little confused by her
00:36:06
statement it it implied that she was looking for a way to score some drugs I don't know if that meant that she was
00:36:14
looking to provide false information to the police and hoping to collect some of
00:36:18
the reward money but the short of it is she had her demons she was uh involved with drug drugs and it seems like quite
00:36:28
a bit especially around this time I have in my notes here that she passed away in
00:36:33
2001 from a drug overdose what I do know is that at some point the police seem to
00:36:39
be not interested in talking to this woman anymore yeah could be I mean we've seen this in a lot of cases where
00:36:45
somebody comes forward with supposed information and then you find out nobody was even staying with her these guys
00:36:52
didn't even exist they just existed in our head or some of the things that she telling them they were probably able to
00:36:58
prove were not true right and so they're like well we we can't uh we can't let her steer our investigation because it's
00:37:07
uh nonsense one of the things though too that is often mentioned in this case is
00:37:13
that the locals the local rumor always seems to have been that there were drugs involved or
00:37:22
suspected drugs involved in this case and that eventually the two gunmen fled to
00:37:27
Mexico and I think there could be some truth to both of those portions of the story but a lot of that I think stems
00:37:35
from the idea that Ida says that she believes from the gunman's actions that they were looking for something else in
00:37:44
the office that day not just the money in the safe and the way that this portion of
00:37:49
the story goes down is that once they're aware of where the safe is or they have
00:37:53
access to the safe that they still continue to look through filing cabinet drawers and desk drawers like they were
00:38:01
all they were looking for something else not just the money in the safe well again this kind of goes to the idea of
00:38:08
what if the owner was doing something shady and these guys were like Hey we're going to come collect from you he
00:38:15
happens to then be out of town and then these guys again looking they get the money cuz maybe the owner
00:38:24
owes them money and maybe or maybe he was going to traffic some drugs for them and so the drugs are gone but he's never
00:38:32
paid them the money so they go in there steal the money look for any extra drugs
00:38:38
or these guys just hear a rumor a bad rumor that's not true that the place is full of
00:38:44
drugs right I mean that that does happen a lot I mean we got the the whole clutter family was murdered because they
00:38:52
thought $10,000 was somewhere in that house and there was no money in that house yeah or they're looking for money
00:38:58
but they're looking for something else that of value that isn't drugs but again a rumor by somebody well that's where I
00:39:06
bring in RJ cak he's another son of Ron cak and he's a known drug user in fact he passed away from a drug overdose as
00:39:17
well and I believe this was in 1997 or 1999 seems to stick out but it was in the late
00:39:27
90s he was a known drug user and I believe he was he was known to have maybe even dealt drugs he worked at the
00:39:36
bowling alley in some form or fashion most reports St state that he was a bartender now obviously he was not
00:39:42
working on that day on that Saturday when the place was robbed and these poor people were
00:39:47
shot but then you have to take it a step further is that does that become the Genesis of this bad rumor or is RJ out
00:39:56
there tell telling people on the streets stuff that's not true or was he did somebody know that he
00:40:02
was actually running drugs out of there or selling drugs at the bar and then they go in there looking for said drugs
00:40:09
and this money from the safe then I want to go to what you referenced earlier here Captain the
00:40:16
Austin yogurt sh shop murders we covered those in episodes 81 and 82 in 2017 when we covered this I was amazed
00:40:25
at how many people told me they have always wondered if these two cases these two absolutely horrific
00:40:33
crimes if they were possibly connected the yogurt shop murders is an open homicide case in Austin Texas this
00:40:40
took place on a Friday December 6th 1991 so less than 2 years later a very similar crime and what do I mean by
00:40:49
similar crime at a yogurt shop in Austin Texas the store was robbed the girls there were four of them present were
00:40:57
brutally attacked and the building was set on fire afterwards all four killed again it's a no one spared situation one
00:41:05
of the big difference though was they were robbed at night right and this was robbed in morning correct and we also
00:41:13
have the I mean they they were subjected to rape and all kinds of attacks yeah where the Los Cruz's situation is much
00:41:23
different where the guys the robbers killers were in and out rather quickly but wasn't there a eyewitness that saw
00:41:32
some guys in the yogurt shop earlier that night that possibly had Army fatigues or well that's the thing we
00:41:40
really did our best to try to lock in on two very who who we believe might have been the suspects and they were two
00:41:48
individuals that were spotted in the yogurt shop just before closing time that have never been identified
00:41:54
everybody else that entered the yogurt shop that at night as far as we know that were seen by other customers have
00:42:00
been identified to this date except for these two guys the description of these two guys would make them significantly
00:42:07
younger than both of our suspects here in Los Cruses MH and this case took place as said
00:42:16
after Los crues so that doesn't really track but one thing I wanted to look at real quick was the holdback information
00:42:22
now what is hold back information hold back information is what the police will hold back so that the public doesn't
00:42:29
know about this in case they get false confessions or if they get people that they think are serious suspects
00:42:35
information that they can try to pull out of them to make them even stronger suspects things that only the
00:42:41
perpetrators would know about the crime in the yogurt shop they held back 13 bits of information now we know what
00:42:50
this is because eventually this did go to trial that whole thing is a mess long story short it's still an unsolved case
00:42:57
but let's go through this real quick because I wanted to compare it to Los crues here are the items that they held
00:43:04
back at the yogurt shop one how and where the fire was started well we know that in Los Cruz's bull the key to the
00:43:11
front door that's interesting because I would think that the detectives would want to have held back the information
00:43:18
that the gunman found the door unlocked at the bowling alley mhm that wouldn't have been people in the public wouldn't
00:43:25
expect the door to be unlocked it was closed the business wasn't open yet right how much money was taken I think
00:43:31
that what we have here at Los Cruz is that they have held that information back all the reports State 4,000 or
00:43:39
5,000 or somewhere between 4 and $5,000 was stolen from Los Cruz and I'm guessing that they're getting that
00:43:46
number from what they think the business probably would have made the night before but we have no way of knowing how
00:43:54
much business how much cash the business left on hand or how much cash that the owner stored of his own cash in in the S
00:44:05
safe because that's where he was living well we have the day manager there there
00:44:09
doing the books had she already gone through everything from the night before and counted all the money right they
00:44:16
would know how much was missing now the rumor has always been that they didn't take all of the money and which has
00:44:23
always been weird because sometimes it's reported that they left some of the in the safe they didn't take all the money
00:44:27
from the safe or they didn't take all the money from the bowling alley which again maybe they already loaded one of
00:44:34
the registers and they just didn't check the register before they left mhm regarding all of the money and the safe
00:44:41
one thing I've always wondered about that Captain because people will point out well that is proof that they were
00:44:46
looking for something else I do believe they were looking for something else I don't think if they left money in the
00:44:51
safe it's proof of such especially if the one portion of the story is true where the girls where they put the
00:44:58
victims in charge of loading up the briefcases may maybe just out of fear or Panic they forgot one of the areas that
00:45:06
there was Cash yeah exactly or they were St startled by Steven teron who came in
00:45:12
unexpectedly yeah possibly or it's a situation I mean look I know it's Hollywood but you watch the town you
00:45:19
watch Point Break sometimes those guys have timers after this timer goes off now moving on
00:45:26
to the next thing no matter where we're at and in the process right there are several items on this list of 13 that
00:45:35
may not pertain to what we have here at Las cruus a lot of the he holdback information at yogurt
00:45:43
shop had to do with the Bindings that were used to tie up the girls and also some of the injuries sustained to the
00:45:52
victims but we don't have as far as we know the victims here weren't tied up and it doesn't appear that they
00:46:02
Unleashed any kind of violence on these victims before shooting them so that may
00:46:07
not have any relevance in this case unless they did and that is part of the hold back information in Los cruus but
00:46:15
we also have one interesting thing here there were two different caliber of guns
00:46:20
used in yogurt shop and it's believed that there were two guns used in Los Cruz Bowl as well we have reports that
00:46:28
one of them was likely a 22 but never any reports of the other caliber of guns so maybe that's a portion that has been
00:46:38
held back there's also a couple of references here out of the 13 items in Austin yogurt shop of additional items
00:46:48
that was taken from the shop that that was not money so you have to wonder was there anything else
00:46:56
taken from the bowling alley that has been held back from the general public well as fascinating as I
00:47:05
find this case and as fascinating as I find the Austin yogur shop murders and if you haven't listened to those
00:47:13
episodes you should check those out I really think it's that there's a control here and this one
00:47:21
and is it possible that these individuals robbed multiple places and started losing control as they went on CU this
00:47:31
happened in the in 1990 yurt shop I believe was 91 so did they lose control as they went
00:47:40
um I I just I I view them as different things I really feel like the yogurt shop murders it was a lot more chaotic
00:47:49
perpetrated by different kind of monsters yeah with with different agendas but that doesn't mean that that
00:47:56
but to me somebody that has this much control is capable of doing this time and time
00:48:04
again without almost any fear of being caught yeah so one article that I found that I thought was really intriguing
00:48:13
Captain this was from the Associated Press in December of 1990 in fact it was December 19th of 1990 where they were
00:48:21
talking to Fred Rubio he's the Las cruus police Captain the head of the Department's detectives at the time and
00:48:30
he's talking about you know hey I would hate to leave this profession without being here when they solve this I love
00:48:37
the optimism of when they solve this and he says this case still haunts us now at
00:48:43
this time we're talking it's only 10 months old but he says we're not used to having Unsolved Mysteries here in this
00:48:52
city and that is intriguing because not only only is he referencing that hey the
00:48:57
case was covered on Unsolved Mysteries but remember in 1989 they only had two homicides and I didn't go through the
00:49:07
entire year of 1990 to figure out how many homicides Los cruus had in that entire year but what I did find was two
00:49:15
interesting things by February 16th of 1990 Los cruus the city of Los cruus had seven homicides by February 16th where
00:49:27
the year before two for the entire year now of course we know that four unfortunately four died on February 10th
00:49:35
of 1990 right that leaves three other homicides we actually mentioned one of the other ones earlier in our coverage
00:49:42
of this case there was a man that was stabbed and he was found at 2:30 in the afternoon the same day as the shootings
00:49:48
they solved that they found the guy that did that so there's one that's down there was a stabbing that took place
00:49:55
place on February 16th where unfortunately a victim died they located the perpetrator of that
00:50:03
murder very quickly and apprehended them what we have here is almost at the end of 1990 on the 19th of December Fred
00:50:14
Rubio says we only have two homicide cases for the entire year of 1990 that remain
00:50:22
unsolved that is the Lost Cruz's B bowling alley Massacre and a gas station robbery that took place in January well
00:50:33
what's that case C all right Captain let me run this by you and you let me know your feelings here this is from an old
00:50:40
Crim Stoppers article it says that they are looking for information leading to the arrest and prosecution of the
00:50:49
persons involved in the Robbery Homicide that occurred on January 14th 19 1990 at
00:50:56
Ray's Shell station located at 2417 West Pico in Los cruus the Los crusis Police
00:51:07
Department was called to the scene at approximately 10:04 a.m. where they found the attendant Salvador Lozano
00:51:16
lying face down in the office area further investigation revealed that the victim had been shot one time in the
00:51:24
back of the head the victim's hands were tied behind his back the caliber or type
00:51:30
of firearm used has not yet been determined investigators believe there was more than one person involved in
00:51:37
this robbery murder investigating officers have been able to determine that a robbery did take place prior to
00:51:45
the victim being shot and I'm going to go off of article here for a second I did some further snooping and found that
00:51:52
it's believed that approximately $500 was stolen from the gas station before this man was murdered and then they go
00:52:00
on to say anyone with information please call the Crim Stoppers or call the New Mexico State uh police so what I'm going
00:52:11
where I'm getting at here Captain is that 30 years ago these two crimes took place less than a month apart in time
00:52:21
the distance between these two businesses both located in Los Cruzes is 3.2 miles from one another they both
00:52:29
took place on a weekend day in the morning this was on a Sunday at 10:00 a.m. well they found the victim at 10:00
00:52:38
a.m. this could have taken place at 8:30 or 9: a.m. but we have LA Los Cruz's bowl that took place on a Saturday and
00:52:46
we know that the murders were committed before 8:30 on that day there seems to be a lot of similarities here where they
00:52:55
shooting unnecessarily shooting the person who is attending the business that they are robbing shot in the back
00:53:02
of the head more than one offender both still unsolved after 30 years not just the two unsolved homicide cases from
00:53:12
1990 well definitely some very interesting similarities in those cases you almost have to wonder if either
00:53:21
police have reason to believe that they're not connected proof that they're not connected and we
00:53:27
just don't know about this or is this a situation where the gas station was not that big of a score
00:53:35
$500 roughly and you have to wonder were they looking for a much bigger score and
00:53:41
thought that Las Cruz's Bowl could be what they were after not just the money in the safe but maybe some kind of drugs
00:53:50
or a large quantity of Narcotics are on scene as well and then this horrific crime multiple murders on the same day
00:54:00
and now it's just too the the heat has been turned up they got to get out of Dodge it's it's a tricky situation
00:54:08
because you want both of these crimes to be solved and then you sit here and wonder is it the same perpetrators and
00:54:15
that's why neither of them have been solved for 30 years MH well again with the evidence being
00:54:23
destroyed with the fire mhm these individuals what we do know is how vicious they are and you would think
00:54:32
they're so vicious over even such small amounts of money that they would eventually get
00:54:40
caught yeah you yes or end yeah end up in prison for some other offense or even some other murder MH we do have some new
00:54:50
information that came out recently and this is very interesting and I and I hope and pray that this goes somewhere
00:54:58
somehow because we still have people that are hurting very bad and here's the other thing you got to keep in mind too
00:55:06
when we talk about there is no real closure in these cases and that is absolutely true and victims and family
00:55:15
members of victims will tell you there is no real closure in these cases but one thing that I think's important to
00:55:23
bring up here when you have a situation like this where you have multiple people
00:55:29
multiple victims some of them did not survive that day mhm and some of them did unfortunately the ones that were
00:55:37
lucky enough if you want to call it that lucky enough to survive that day they live in fear for the rest of their lives
00:55:46
because they know that these two gunmen are still out there somewhere or could be out there yeah could be out there
00:55:53
somewhere so when we talk about no real closure that might be some pretty significant form of closure for our
00:56:01
surviving victims well we hear a lot that that the family deserves answers and answers doesn't always mean closure
00:56:10
but answers are important knowing what happened and why it happened is important even if they're never going to
00:56:17
get closure yeah because you can't bring people back and that's the that's the sad sad truth but we've had the
00:56:26
30-year anniversary I guess if you want to call it that it's been 30 years since
00:56:31
these murders took place and that was of course in February of 2020 and we wanted
00:56:37
to cover this ideally we would have covered this right around the anniversary but we were busy doing our
00:56:43
Shaker Heights project at that time and it couldn't couldn't be put off any longer so here we are now captain and
00:56:50
I'm kind of glad that we waited a little bit because we wouldn't had this little
00:56:54
tidbit of information had we done this case back in February so what happened was on the 30-year marker we have Los
00:57:03
Cruz's Crime Stoppers upped the reward for information on the ID of the possible suspects this is to
00:57:13
$30,000 and around the same time we have ABC7 anchor her name is Stephanie Vil she said that around the 30-year
00:57:25
anniversary she received a call from a woman originally from Los cruus who gave her the name of a
00:57:32
man the tipster is certain is the younger of the two attackers the younger gunman right she claims that his family
00:57:43
knew or had a decent idea that he committed the crime but remained quiet about it all of these years this man
00:57:52
that she is implicating killed himself in 1997 we will see if this comes to be what comes of this information I'm sure
00:58:04
we'll find out here hopefully sooner rather than later the Los cruus Police Department still urges anyone with any
00:58:14
kind of information at all no matter how seemingly insignificant to please please call Crim
00:58:22
Stoppers at 1 800 222 [Music] 8477 thanks for listening thanks for joining us in the garage Colonel do we
00:58:45
have any recommended reading this week Captain I am very excited to recommend to the good garage people an incredible
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B book this is one of if not the best True Crime book of 2020 so far the book is called the Garden State Parkway
00:59:04
murders a Cold Case Mystery by Christian bar the Garden State Parkway murders is
00:59:10
the true story of two College friends who were brutally knifed to death and their bodies left off the parkway the
00:59:17
author identifies several suspects including Infamous serial killers Ted Bundy and Gerald stano this wonderful
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book is the result of 9 years of nose to the Grind investigative research and it's out of wild blue press a premier
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publisher of True Crime books so you know it's good check out the Garden State Parkway murders and other titles
00:59:42
on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com yeah and with the holiday next week we will be off we have we'll
00:59:51
still have off the Record but we have something very exciting for you so make sure you're following us on Twitter or
01:00:02
Instagram or Facebook because next week there'll be some very exciting things happening with the garage we are going
01:00:10
to be hot and heavy as they say hot in the hot tub if you're not following True Crime garage make sure you get that
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started today you don't want to miss out on next week everybody have a great safe
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