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thank you [Music] [Music] thank you welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you are doing thanks
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for listening I'm your host Nick and with me today I have a very special guest all the way from the home of the
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NFL champions Kansas City but before we get to that how about a little of this today we are very happy to be featuring
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a league of its own garage grade I have always had a fondness in my heart for the peeps over at Evil Genius so four
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and a quarter bottle caps out of five and we have a couple of beer shout outs to get to First up a big cheers to
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Amanda in the windy city living it up in Chicago and last but certainly not least
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we have Kaylee who is on active Air Force Duty in Omaha Nebraska but originally from the great believeland
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Ohio cheers to you Kaylee and thank you for keeping this country great and safe both Amanda and Kaylee helped us to fill
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up the old garage fridge this week by contributing to the Beer fund and and for that we thank you and speaking of
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beer if you can get to the Greater Columbus area come on out and have a beer in a conversation with me and your
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good friend the captain at the one and only brewdog Dog tap April 29th tickets are available at True Crime garage.com
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and as the smart people say that is enough of the business so gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some
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true crime [Music] laugh s [Music] I just I miss her so much Kim Brown back at the place where her daughter was
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killed three months ago today I wish we'd have answers I just can't understand I just can't understand how
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this could have happened Tuesday June 4th around 5 15 in the evening 33 year old Kate Brown and 40 year old friend
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Carnell Sledge sitting on this park bench when they were shot in the heads the killer vanished Without a Trace and
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has not been identified we have no idea who did it we have just no idea and that's upsetting it's horribly upsetting
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because Kate and Carnell aren't here now as a result of this abrupt violent act I
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mean and why Kim says she believes Metro Parks police and the FBI are doing all they can as they actively investigate it
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does pose new difficulties so with each passing day FBI special agent Vicki Anderson says detectives want to hear
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from anyone who was in the park that day or who has heard anything that may help
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she says it's still unclear if the killer knew the victims the people that were in their circles you know who were
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they talking to um who did they last speak with their family their friends people online the
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we've run all those things we continue to work those angles but the stranger possibility still exists the Metro Park
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says police have upped Patrols in the area Kate's family putting up signs pleading for tips as they await answers
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this couldn't have happened totally in isolation somebody knows something and I'm hoping somebody will step forward
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thank you [Music] a very special night here in the garage I'm very excited I'm joined here with my
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longtime friend and host my favorite host of The Generation Y podcast Aaron how are you doing this evening man I'm
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doing great because I'm hanging out with you and getting ready to discuss an important case there are very few places
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better to be than in the garage and I welcome you and I'm glad that you are here with me this evening yes this is an
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important case this is a scary case and and when I review this case I'm reminded that there simply are
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cases that I think are more frightening than others and here what we are talking about
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tonight is a double homicide that takes place in broad daylight in a public place
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so it certainly makes one take pause and really acknowledge that unfortunately this terrifying situation could happen
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to any of us at any time and unfortunately no one is immune to being a victim and we can't keep our
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guard up everywhere all of the time now the story starts off like this it's a beautiful Tuesday afternoon at the
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Rocky River Reservation this is a Metro Park in the Greater Cleveland Ohio area we have two good wholesome people who
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were gunned down that evening now this has become one of the area's most infamous unsolved homicide cases and an
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investigation that truly has no easily identifiable motive or suspect it happened just after 5 PM on June 4th
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2019. in a parking lot area north of the Lorraine Road Bridge in the park according to authorities
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our victims Cornell Sledge and Kate Brown arrived at the parking lot around 504 pm
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they arrived separately they got out of their cars and they went and sat down together on a
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nearby bench the two had been friends for more than a decade and from my understanding meeting
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there at this location at the park anyway was not unusual now police say sometime between 508 and
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5 15 p.m an unknown person or persons shot them Kate Brown's body was found in the water so this park bench
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is right near the Rocky River it's it's directly in front of the Rocky River and her body is found in the water
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she has been shot once in the head Carnell Sledge was found on the ground nearby he had been shot multiple times
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in the head according to authorities just minutes later at 5 18 PM two kayakers are in the river they're
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going Upstream Downstream what have you and they find these two bodies and they call 9-1-1 immediately now Aaron this is
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crazy because think about that really short brief time frame that we're discussing
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here the authorities have managed to narrow this down to parking in the lot at approximately 504 PM I do
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want to State some things here first off right off the rip there's not a lot of information not a lot of details that
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have come out about this case from the mouths of law enforcement since this case broke since this
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unfortunate incident back in June of 2019 however online there are multiple reports from different Media news
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outlets and some of these times do vary to a very small degree so I've seen it reported that they
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parked there as early as 502. uh this report that I chose to use is saying 504 and then we have the kayakers
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discovering the bodies at 5 18. I've also seen that it reported that the 911. so we all can agree though that we
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are still talking about a very small window of time from the time that everything was fine everything was
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normal everything was great just another beautiful sunny day in the Greater Cleveland area
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and then unfortunately these two are gunned down in a Metro Park of all places yeah the timing of that it really
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suggests this is just from my own analysis here of course that they were followed
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that it has that feel do you know what I mean and the other thing the other thing that really strikes me
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here is people often say well I need to meet with someone I'm going to meet with
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them in public because it's safer this is a well-trafficed area yes and yet it didn't help the situation at all
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whoever did the shooting was not afraid to do this uh with many people going by a well-trafficed area and that is so if
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you look this up on a map we have Lorraine Road which goes over there's a Lorraine bridge that goes over
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Rocky River they would have parked their vehicles in a parking lot that is very near and
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underneath sort of that Lorraine Road bridge and then walked over to this bench sat down
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and the way that the crime goes down the murders go down as explained by law enforcement and the news outlets
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is that it is believed that they were both seated at this park bench when the first shot was fired
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now what's crazy to me you say well trafficked area this is not just well trafficked area we're talking about cars
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going over the bridge this there's multiple Lanes in both directions on this bridge
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cars going over the bridge we have people that are going to the park going to and from the park
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it's June in Ohio that day I believe it was mid 70s around the time that they were killed
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it was a Tuesday which would give you a little bit less traffic that as far as the parks concerned but there's also the
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Metro Police they're not housed too terribly far away from this location the thing that shocks me here and
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they've done about four press conferences that I could View and listen to throughout the years on this case
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they've opened up every one of those press conferences to questions from the media
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and the Metro Parks police they're Fielding those questions and they don't offer much up in the way of a
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details about the case or B information that they know and I get it it's a catch-22 situation
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you're holding the press conference to ask the public for their help and for information from the public so
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you can solve this case so you can get Justice for Kate and car now and their families
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but then on the flip of that you got to hold this some information close to your vest
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and what little information you probably have it's it's one of those situations where
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they have some information that's confirming for them approximately what time they Park their cars they have
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information something that's telling them that they were shot at approximately this time
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now I get it you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out of course they had to be
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shot before 522 or before 5 18 before the 9-1-1 call was placed by the kayakers but
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I want to know where some of this information comes because you talk about heavily trafficked area both cars people
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on foot we even got kayakers we got people walking their dogs in this area people on bikes
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somebody at that time of day given that amount of traffic we have to have some ear Witnesses is what I'm thinking well
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why don't we have those people coming forward because as far as we know there haven't been have there the information
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that I was able to review states that they have received over a hundred tips on this case
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and that was a statement given by the Metroparks police and the FBI I believe in 20 20 or 2021
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so I would make the assumption that they've received some other tips since then I don't you know it's difficult to say
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without knowing what that information is how many of that 100 or so tips were helpful
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but that's what they're stating to us now I say that you got to have some ear Witnesses because
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just the kayakers alone because we're being told that the police believe and have
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likely have reason to believe if they're this specific about the times they're stating that sometime between 508 and 5
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15 PM an unknown person shot both of them and then by 5 18 or 522 the 9-1-1 call is placed
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so is it something just as simple I would think that at the very least those two kayakers would be potential ear
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Witnesses before they stumble upon the this horrific scene and it's possible there are ear Witnesses
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we just haven't been told about who they were and what they heard sometimes that information gets out in
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this case like you're saying the Cleveland Metroparks police they've been very quiet
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and they're not releasing much one thing we have been told here is that robbery does not seem to be a motive
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and we're basing this off of the idea that Carnell's wallet was still on his person
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Kate's purse was found where they were sitting and Carnell's laptop was still in his
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car so items of value were not taken from the victims or from their vehicle yeah that tells us
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something right away and when I was reading about this for the first time when I first learned of it from you
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it really struck me as the kind of case where it felt like a targeted attack that's what's very odd about this case
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because we have some statements from law enforcement they were very quick to say
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we have no reason to believe the attacks were random that's one thing they were saying right
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from Jump Street they were stating they believed it was an isolated incident and that the general public or people
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going to the park were not in any danger or at a safety risk now again you want to know what they're
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basing that off of or if they're basing it off of anything at all other than just sheer statistics
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I mean more could it be something else Nick you've seen the movie Jaws I guess I have
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and you know that was part of the film where someone gets attacked and killed and they're reassuring all the tourists
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no it's fine you know don't worry about it it won't happen again exactly and that's what I wondered were they
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basing that off of well the statistics will tell us that most homicides the overwhelming majority of
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them are isolated incidents person a has a beef with person B and attacks or kills them
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that's usually how these things play out but that's reasonable isn't it given the
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timing of this I mean this one of the questions early on was was Kate headed towards the river just
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because she was wandering away for a moment to look out that didn't seem likely because they
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hadn't been there long enough right that's something that might happen if they had been there for 25 30 minutes
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but not if only for what three four minutes no she was probably trying to get away I
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agree with you and and you're exactly right Aaron that's that was the speculation or at least it wasn't law
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enforcement statements but that was the speculation that was coming out earlier in in this case and in the investigation
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there were people saying that Carnell was seated at the bench and the Kate was up either looking into
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the river maybe skipping a rock or something of that nature Carnell is shot and killed and then Kate is shot and
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killed and falls down the it's it's of course a little bit of a ravine like into the into the
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river there so this River like like all fluctuates in depth but it's it's rather
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wide and at the time of the homicides the water was pretty shallow and so when you see you can check out news
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stories online news stories of this case and in the more recent ones the river's
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quite higher at the time and the park bench looks like you're like two feet from the water
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but when this when these homicides took place the river was rather low and it's my understanding that she fell
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down into that that space into the dirt just before the water and so unfortunately
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her body would be extremely obvious to those kayakers as they were coming by there are so many questions you can
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literally come up with multiple scenarios of what could have happened uh just because I think she was trying to
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get away because Carnell was suddenly shot doesn't mean that's exactly how it happened we don't know I'm just basing
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it off of the timing of everything you also could question if she fell down and would be more exposed to other
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people perhaps that meant the shooter didn't have time to do anything else and had to
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leave yeah so one thing that's come into question here is the nature of the wounds and we do have some information
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from the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner this is Dr Tom Gilson Dr Thomas Gilson I've personally met Dr
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Gilson on a couple of occasions so the non-profit that I work for the porch light project we have worked hand in
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hand with the Cuyahoga County medical examiner's office on a couple of cases this dude is a stand-up guy you know we
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we look at these cases you and Justin the captain and I we look at these cases a new one every week sometimes they're
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unsolved cases and when you have a case that goes unsolved for a year two three this one coming up on four years now
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you do question the investigation and I think that's fair to do so I mean citizens do why can't podcasters do it
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so I think it's fair to do so I will give my humble garage opinion here on this gentleman
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if there is a problem with this investigation it's not coming from Dr Gilson I've as said I've met with them several
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times when you talk about level of give a [ __ ] go ahead and put that at 100 for
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Dr Gilson because he has personally taken out time of his busy work day and and spent time and resources from his
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office to meet with the porch light project on several cases that being of some unidentified person's unidentified
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remains and even a homicide a couple homicide cases so this is somebody that is willing to go the extra mile in
00:21:47
and meet with with some people that are eager to help and assist in some of these unsolved cases so uh
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coming from his office the reports that I've seen state that Carnell Sledge unfortunately
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died of multiple gunshot wounds To The Head And to be a little more detailed about that
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most of the reports state two shots to the Head Catherine brown or Kate Brown the reports are that she suffered one
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gunshot wound which killed her and some of the reports state that it was a singular gun shop to the Head
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yes and so when you and I had spoken about this uh about a week ago you thought that that told you something
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that Kate was shot once while Carnell was shot at least twice yes I did and I the thing was that when
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we spoke about it I was a little unclear about the where on the person they were shot
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and it sounded to me like if if we were talking one gunshot to the female victim
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in multiple to the male victim my suspicion on that for for a period of time anyway was that maybe she was taken
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out first and then he had an opportunity to respond now what we can say is it's obvious that they were attacked from
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behind now can I say that they didn't see the killer approaching them no we can't say that but what we do know is
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based off of information that's come out Carnell was in the seated position or or
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seated at the bench just before the gunshot started and I think you're spot on with your statement there Aaron of of
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the belief of possibly Kate was attempting to to flee you know uh this all went down very quickly and
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I'm basing and backing up what you stated off of some information that I discovered recently this is from
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uh Cleveland news 13. in a statement that says the family of the victims said that
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Kate was shot running for her life so that Cardell would have been shot while still seated at the park bench
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and I don't think she was up by the water I think she was sitting right next to him had
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a split second to react she got up and started to go and it's still a shot at relatively close range the momentum
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carrying her forward and pushing her close to the river falling over that that that it's a maybe a few feet a bit
00:24:46
of a ledge there leading down to the Rocky River yeah so once again I think we need to talk a bit more about
00:24:53
the timing because one of the things I learned was that this was after five o'clock and Carnell wasn't supposed to
00:25:03
be at this location at least according to his family he was supposed to be at his grandmother's house and no I haven't
00:25:08
and Aaron I do want to apologize it was Cleveland 19 news I think I said Cleveland 13 there just a second ago
00:25:14
this is interesting to me right because given the time period five o'clock that's the time when we think okay
00:25:23
you're just recently off of work uh what is this meet up here for and there there's been a lot of speculation
00:25:32
by the public as to what this Meetup or Rendezvous would be for and law enforcement has been pretty clear
00:25:41
and the families both families have been very clear these two knew each other they knew each other for an
00:25:48
extended period of time had known each other for 10 plus years I've even seen statements that it was
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not uncommon for them to meet at this the statements are this location but can we say this very park bench no
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um I think we we should probably generalize generalize that a little bit more and simply say it was probably not
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uncommon for them to meet at this park what's interesting to me though is a statement from
00:26:17
Kate's family that said that she frequented the park uh with other people as well
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so that would lead me to believe possibly this was a location of her choosing right so if we put that
00:26:31
together with again this is just speculation but if Carnell was supposed to be over
00:26:38
at his grandmother's place and people were trying to reach out to him asking where he was why are you not
00:26:44
over here this might have been something set up not too long prior to when they got
00:26:51
there this might have been a last minute thing and that would make you question why were they suddenly meeting at this
00:26:58
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hintwater.com today [Music] so for those that unfamiliar with the case Cardell Sledge age 40 when he's killed
00:33:04
he is an African-American man Kate Brown was age 33 when she was killed and she is a Caucasian woman
00:33:13
this has caused some to speculate could this be a hate crime or or something that is race related or or a racist
00:33:23
motivation because I think what's weird about this case to me it feels like while we have very few details
00:33:34
and limited information I look at this thing and from from the first couple of weeks till
00:33:40
where we sit today I still feel like we're talking about only a few scenarios that are that are likely here
00:33:50
that if it was somebody on foot or on bike or some random person in the park I see it it would have to be
00:34:00
some kind of racially motivated homicide or some kind of Thrill Kill or if they were targeted as we're led to
00:34:11
believe by statements from the FBI and the Metro Parks Police Department then I'm with you given the short window
00:34:19
there I mean they're only there they're by law enforcement as little as they're telling us the one thing they are
00:34:25
telling us is they were there for uh let me pull this up right in front of me because I want to make sure I hit this
00:34:31
out of the park they were only there between 502 and at the at the greatest 502 to 5 15.
00:34:44
and they're shot and killed or the shorter part of that would be 504 to 508. and they're shot and killed
00:34:54
has to mean that that one of them were followed there we know that they arrived in in two separate vehicles
00:35:00
I'm making a guess here that they were coming from two different locations somebody had to be watching one of these
00:35:08
individuals and and track them there and not only track them there but went undetected you would think they would
00:35:15
had to have gone undetected to Cornell or Kate right it I really believe that they arranged to meet there last
00:35:25
minute because he didn't inform anyone he was changing his plans uh his grandmother
00:35:31
was Audrey Corey and by all accounts that's where he was supposed to be was with her he took good care of her this
00:35:39
guy was known to be very caring [Music] um I mean he worked with special needs kids at Empower Sports
00:35:46
and it was all about letting anyone play sports you know when I was younger I would try to play sports and I was
00:35:52
always the last one picked because I was so scrawny and I wasn't very good at sports but uh you know at his program it
00:35:59
didn't matter who you were you could play basketball you know what I mean everybody could participate and so with
00:36:06
as caring as he was I even his own mother said uh that he was a loving man he was a God-fearing man he wasn't
00:36:16
perfect but they were proud of him and and Kate Brown everyone vouches for how wonderful she was these are like you
00:36:25
said wholesome people long time friends what would cause them at the last minute
00:36:31
to decide to meet at the park like that were they just going to meet and talk for a few minutes because maybe Kate had
00:36:38
something she wanted to tell him maybe she was feeling emotional maybe something happened and she needed to
00:36:44
talk to someone he said why don't we stop by the park and we can talk about it before I head on to my grandma's
00:36:49
house right we don't know what it was uh the speculation could take us many places but what we do know is they were
00:36:57
good enough friends that if one of them said hey could you meet me at the park I
00:37:01
want to talk about some stuff or whatever they would both go to the park that wouldn't even be a question right no it
00:37:07
wouldn't be a question I don't think so given what we've heard from Kate's family that she frequented the park
00:37:13
um her father said that it was a place that she would often go to meet her mother
00:37:18
and what where my inquisitive mind starts to go is well what what would it be that they needed to discuss in person
00:37:30
and in this setting rather than over the phone or through text and the other thing too given the timeline
00:37:37
of what we're being told of hey we've narrowed down the time of death to this short little window here we're not
00:37:45
telling you that we have any eyewitnesses because if we had an eyewitness what we would have is a
00:37:52
a suspect description and I know what you're about to jump in and say and we can Circle back to that here in a minute
00:37:57
but but to be Frank here in the early goings of this case an investigation we're not told
00:38:07
that there is any eyewitness right and so to have this very short little time window of approximately seven minutes
00:38:16
or 10 minutes depending on what timeline you go by of this is when the shots occurred this is when they were killed
00:38:24
I start to wonder was there some form of communication was there you know a text
00:38:30
sent out by Carnell at 507 uh to to a family member to a friend or a co-worker and so they know okay Carnell was alive
00:38:40
and well at 507 because he sent out this text message the the thing is I did not
00:38:46
know that he was supposed to be going to his grandmother's house that evening but what is interesting and
00:38:53
what I I think makes it easy for me to believe that is his grandmother said something so cute and you knew that they
00:39:02
were close and and he was very close with his parents and close with his grandmother but one of her
00:39:09
statements was talking about her grandson was he loved to eat and I love to cook and she said it with with this
00:39:16
beautiful smile and um so it makes perfect sense that Carnell was on his way to see Grandma
00:39:23
that evening uh who knows did he need to be there at 5 30 did he need to be there
00:39:28
at five we do know one thing I do know based off of some statements uh he was working as a an audio
00:39:37
technician audio visual technician for a company croissant yes Creston thank you and he a person
00:39:49
that he worked with who he interacted with that day the day that he was killed said we spoke
00:39:57
everything seemed normal he was his happy-go-lucky self uh he was always a joy to be around no different on that
00:40:04
day we discussed uh an expense report or something of that nature something very
00:40:09
much work related and that person went on to say Carnell would have left work that day sometime
00:40:17
between four and five pm this is at Crescent digital yes so I you know so he may have gone
00:40:25
from work to meet up with Kate Brown that's what we're guessing here right mm-hmm
00:40:32
I don't know if knowing why they were meeting would tell us anything or not because as we know if if someone if
00:40:42
someone is targeting you it may have been someone who didn't understand the relationship that Carnell
00:40:49
had with Kate that's just one possibility right exactly and that I think that is
00:40:57
underlined and should be easily understood by everybody and easily believed because as soon as these two
00:41:03
poor people were killed people that didn't know them that were reading about this in the newspaper or
00:41:08
watching it on the news were questioning what is the relationship between Carnell
00:41:12
and Kate and we have family telling us they were friends now does do what I expect
00:41:21
parents out there everywhere to know what type of relationship that their 40 year old son or 33 year old daughter has
00:41:28
with other adults the details and the specifics of those of the of that relationship or dynamics
00:41:37
of that relationship no but again I think that you could have those two theories that we're discussing here
00:41:45
tonight fit based off of what you just said a misunderstanding of what it is they're
00:41:54
really what their relationship was or the nature of their relationship on this given day yeah it's one thing to try and
00:42:02
figure out what happened it's another to try and look at the people involved to see if there were any clues along the
00:42:09
way and when I was reading up on Kate it was said that her dad was talking about how she had lost 100
00:42:18
pounds she was exercising regularly doing yoga and he said she was just better than ever
00:42:27
better than ever so at least as far as the Brown family was con concerned Kate seemed to have everything going her
00:42:35
way everything was looking up because she just was uh you know from what I was reading she had a real zest
00:42:44
for life and she was motivated and then if you look at Carnell's life he took great joy in taking it Taking
00:42:51
Care of other people making them feel good so again I don't look at this and think
00:42:58
they were up to no good at this park I just think I think it's what everyone's saying they
00:43:03
were really good friends they decided to meet at the park for some reason and like I said if I had to put
00:43:09
I don't know a guess on this it would be one of them maybe needed to talk about something and who better to talk about
00:43:16
it with than one of their very best friends a trusted friend a trusted long time
00:43:22
friend you know and sometimes when you're going through something or sometimes when you're faced
00:43:29
with something the best person to talk to is one of those I I know that I have a couple
00:43:35
buddies that I've had to deliver the hard truth to them once or twice and they've had to
00:43:41
deliver the hard truth to me once or twice throughout the decades that we've known each other and
00:43:47
um there's been times when I've had to tell them they're wrong or tell them to move on from something that's not good
00:43:54
for them and they've had to do the same for me there's been other times too where you just say look I'm not I'm not
00:44:02
in a sticky situation here nothing's bad with Nick I just need to talk I need some advice I gotta bounce something off
00:44:09
of you and those are the people you go to and I think that's exactly what was probably
00:44:14
Happening Here what I think is less likely out of the two scenarios that I think
00:44:21
are the most probable is I would go 1A and one b one b being the racially motivated homicide and look
00:44:33
it's not something that's comfortable that's comfortable to talk about but it happens
00:44:40
right it it has happened and unfortunately it continues to happen there will always be hateful people
00:44:49
in every country everywhere but we also have people that do kill for the thrill of it I don't think with with
00:44:57
giving such little information I don't think it's easy for us to rule out those possibilities
00:45:02
I have spoke to some of the people that are from that area grew up in that area uh and and have lived there for for many
00:45:10
years they agree that that would be the second most likely Theory here that that they would put
00:45:21
forward the first being that somebody as you said uh was either jealous wanted some kind
00:45:29
of Revenge or did not understand the nature of their relationship and for that to be the case I'm with you
00:45:36
Aaron I think somebody had to have fallen had to have to follow one of these individuals to the park that day
00:45:44
that evening and then that makes you wonder and take it a step further was the intention to
00:45:51
take them both out or was one of the victims just collateral damage right did they even know there was going
00:45:59
to be a second person there or was this going to be a planned confrontation and that second person through their
00:46:07
plans awry before we get into the and I'm using air quotes here you can't see me but you can
00:46:14
feel it with your air with your ear balls out there people air quotes before we get into the eyewitness
00:46:21
Aaron is it okay if I throw out two of the rumors that were going around I always I always when when there's a
00:46:31
case that has so many open-ended questions as this one does I do like to put my ear to the ground
00:46:40
and hear what some of the locals are saying and I I know that it's a bit of Reckless
00:46:47
speculation but in more than one case where cases went unsolved for 10 years eight years
00:46:57
in more than one occasion there has been a local rumor that many were talking about and then later it turns out to be
00:47:04
well that's exactly how it went down um so in this case I don't know if these rumors have
00:47:12
reached you I'm I'm obviously proximity wise quite a bit closer to the case being here in Ohio than than you are in
00:47:19
beautiful Kansas City home of the the greatest quarterback known to man Patrick Mahomes but uh the what I heard
00:47:29
from the locals is one of two possibilities that it was either an X of carnels or that Kate had met somebody via a
00:47:44
dating app and either Cardinal had offered her some advice or maybe had discovered that the
00:47:55
Suitor or potential Suitor that she was talking to may have not been who he says he was rumors there's
00:48:03
no way for us to know until uh like you said it could take years and if this thing is solved perhaps one
00:48:11
of those rumors will have been proven to be true I do think it's possible that an ex
00:48:16
would be involved just because they still are in a certain place emotionally that the other person isn't
00:48:25
and so uh while they're haunted the other person has moved on and they don't even know that there's a plot against
00:48:33
them before we get to that eyewitness let's I want to talk about something that that does bother me about the case
00:48:39
and you know what it's weird because we do these cases and sometimes I get accused of being too
00:48:47
much of a blue blood and then go ahead and tune in next week and you go all right well sounds like Nick doesn't like
00:48:54
the police at all I think you look at the yeah I think you have to look at these situations on a
00:49:00
case-by-case basis and one thing that I try to say and remind people is every one of these cases is unique
00:49:07
none of them fit in any particular size or shape box they're all very unique cases because
00:49:16
we're talking about Unique Individuals victims suspects locations circumstances everything is very unique with every
00:49:26
case same as the people that are investigating the case and just like any career or any Walk of Life or any work
00:49:35
any job out there there are people that are good at their jobs and people that straight up suck at their jobs and guess
00:49:41
what that means there are bad doctors out there there are bad people in law enforcement but they're also great
00:49:47
people in law law enforcement most of them are great most of them are fantastic now I'm not accusing anybody in this
00:49:53
particular case of not being great at their job because I don't know what information they do or don't have or or
00:50:00
maybe there's simply no information out there but one thing I one thing that always kind of bothers me about these
00:50:07
press conferences where us the public we rely so heavily on what we're being told
00:50:12
by the experts and by the authorities but then they're coming back to us during this press conferences and asking
00:50:18
us for help but then when the media starts to raise their hand and ask questions at the end of your conference
00:50:26
and your your answer for everything is well because this is an ongoing investigation
00:50:33
I I can't answer that question or that you're referencing right now police chief Katherine Dolan she's the
00:50:41
one that was uh how's genius media briefings yeah and that that has been her answer for everything so where all
00:50:50
these investigations and cases are unique that answer certainly is not new unique to any case and not unique to
00:50:58
this case because that's the answer I've heard every darn time that a question is
00:51:03
asked the thing that drives me nuts is often in John Q public may not know this or
00:51:13
may not have put much interest into it to figure it out but a lot of times these press
00:51:19
conferences are led by either a police chief or in a larger Department you'll have
00:51:26
like a public information officer typically that person that's giving the press conference standing at
00:51:34
the podium they've not actually actively worked the investigation themselves that holds true most of the time I can't
00:51:44
say that it's true in this case but I get the vibe that that's what we're getting here Aaron we do it makes
00:51:50
sense that the chief would be the one to come forward and talk to the public but
00:51:56
does the chief have the ability to answer these questions it is she choosing to stand up there and make make
00:52:03
a strategic decision as far as her her investigation goes and says well I can't answer that
00:52:09
because it pertains to an investigation or is it I can't answer that because I don't know the answer to that question
00:52:15
and this is my fallback because the question that that I wanted to hear the most is
00:52:23
a very astute reporter says look there's got to be surveillance cameras on this road and that road and this road
00:52:32
how many surveillance cameras are there in this location and were you able to access them you know what time the
00:52:41
victims arrived at the parking lot so you must have some information did you get that from surveillance footage
00:52:48
answer well that pertains to our investigation so I cannot answer that question somebody followed them there and and
00:52:59
I would be willing to to slap down a Benjamin Franklin right now on the table and wager that somebody followed one of
00:53:07
these people to the park that day and then went in and shot and killed both of them
00:53:14
can we can you pull anything from that surveillance footage have you checked all of those bases and if so what is
00:53:21
that information telling you do you have a car of interest do you have a vehicle
00:53:25
of interest and that's what we're expecting that they know some things that they're just not letting us know
00:53:31
about and we wouldn't know until they make an arrest you had some brilliant information of
00:53:38
Carnell was intending to or was supposed to be going to Grandma's house and either at the last minute may have
00:53:47
changed his plans or this could have just been a brief stop along the way do you have any idea of where Kate was
00:53:56
coming from because we know we do know that that maybe Carnell did not go directly from work to the Metro Park
00:54:05
he may have given that we have a co-worker saying he could have left as late as 5 PM
00:54:14
but that gives us some idea or at least gives us a little bit of detail about his timeline for the day in
00:54:22
question do you know where Kate was coming from do we have any clue on that well real quick with Carnell they might
00:54:28
know based on interviews done with his co-workers uh what time he actually did leave maybe someone does know what time
00:54:36
he left as for Kate I actually do not know where she was coming from but she may have been at work as well
00:54:45
I would imagine if she because typically when she went to the park they said she
00:54:50
exercised at the park a lot but if she drove there to meet Carnell then obviously she wasn't there exercising I
00:54:58
could not find where Kate worked I found some information stating that she worked
00:55:04
at a jewelry store for approximately seven years and the way that it was worded made it sound like
00:55:12
she was probably still working there at the time of her death yes and that's what I assume is that she was still
00:55:18
working there because not only did they say where she worked but she said she considered her co-workers and boss
00:55:25
like family correct but if you look take a look at her obituary it seems as though
00:55:34
she is the kind of person that is good at making friends and is a loyal friend they said that and this is in her
00:55:42
obituary once she was your friend she would always be your friend she was very loyal well and something that backs that
00:55:50
up is what we do know her long-term friendship with Carnell if Carnell was coming from work
00:56:01
Aaron what I'm showing here is if he was at the home office uh this would have put him about a 12
00:56:12
mile drive from the home office to where his vehicle was parked so about a 20-minute drive if that was in fact
00:56:24
where he if he came directly from work it would it would appear to me given the statements of he would have left work
00:56:31
between 4 and 5 PM that only leaves a very short window of time for him to have stopped elsewhere
00:56:38
along the way so that's where this is at right I mean we know that the Metro Park
00:56:44
police have investigated this we know they have had assistance from the FBI we know that once the shootings occurred
00:56:53
that the park was checked for evidence but the only things that they admitted to binding were several shell casings
00:57:02
from a weapon and they didn't seem to really want to comment about the footage that would
00:57:08
have come from the cameras in the area they didn't want to talk about the footage that would have come from the
00:57:13
cameras the shell casings would tell us what because we we don't we don't have information about the gun that's
00:57:22
released to the public we're not told what caliber or if more than one gun was used
00:57:30
we can assume that it was not a revolver that given that they found shell casings
00:57:36
at the scene you had found a report that stated three shell casings that's what I've found in all my reading
00:57:43
it seemed the most consistent bit of information regarding the shooting as far as evidence found were several shell
00:57:50
casings which are three um or if you might say a few a few shell casings three shell casings found there
00:58:00
but um that goes along with some of the reports that he was shot twice and she sorry
00:58:07
that car now was shot twice and Kate shot once now right but I recall you saying you
00:58:15
wondered if he was the target yes and that he would be a witness who needed to be stopped
00:58:22
I I wondered that and I think you could argue both sides of the coin and people put in in dumb people like me put a lot
00:58:29
of psychology into the way that these crimes go down but a lot of people would suggest that that
00:58:37
one of two situations he would have been shot first because he was the target or you could argue because he's the man
00:58:47
imposes the bigger threat to the shooter that you eliminate the threat first and then take out the target
00:58:59
I would definitely suggest people look up pictures of Carnell Sledge that would give them some idea of why he
00:59:08
would have been shot first and that you're correct uh if you're well when perpetrators shoot people they often try
00:59:17
to take out the person who poses the biggest threat to them and I would say Carnell would have posed a threat and
00:59:23
keep in mind the way this goes down the way that we are kind of explained that it went down or the way
00:59:31
that we have to put these pieces together would lead you to believe that they that either he was seated at the
00:59:38
bench or they both were seated at the park bench when the first shot was fired and so if you are the perpetrator or
00:59:45
perpetrators and you have the ability to sneak up behind them you would unfortunately get to choose
00:59:57
who you're going to Target first and as you just said look up pictures of Cornell and and given his background too
01:00:06
I mean he's he's an athletic looking guy he's a guy that looks to be in good physical condition
01:00:18
now I know you're just you're just chopping at the bit right here aren't you Aaron you want to get to this this
01:00:24
eyewitness no I mean you've teased it a few times I think we should get to it now because uh
01:00:34
there are definitely people waiting to find out what else is gonna happen here because for many people I suspect this
01:00:40
will be the first time they're hearing of this case I'm not saying no one's covered it but I don't think it's gotten
01:00:47
as much press as much coverage as some other cases and I find that to be a little strange
01:00:54
with it being uh the nature of the crime itself and I I get it they don't think it's random
01:01:05
they think it was targeted nobody else should be afraid to go to the park I get all that but look I mean
01:01:15
okay then Metro Parks police solved the case prove it and I I'm not gonna look I not gonna hold back here Aaron
01:01:26
I'm a little concerned that the Metro Parks police I I reviewed something that stated that the FBI took over the case
01:01:33
at some point I don't believe that to be true that looked to be more to me to be somebody's speculation
01:01:40
on a message board somewhere it looks to me like the Metro Parks police are still the primary
01:01:46
investigators on this case and the FBI is assisting them there is a local office there in Cleveland so that is
01:01:54
helpful but the way that I see this going down and from other cases that I've reviewed
01:02:01
you typically have the primary and then the FBI who says they're assisting it's more of a hey we check in from time to
01:02:08
time and see if they need anything or we sit down and have a meeting every month
01:02:13
or every or quarterly and put our heads together and see what comes about I'm not going to lie and I feel bad
01:02:22
saying this on a microphone where it's being recorded I don't feel great that it's that the
01:02:31
primary on this is the Cleveland Metro the I'm sorry the uh the Metro Parks police
01:02:39
the police chief says it herself there in the in the conference in the first news conference
01:02:45
the parks are a very safe place we've not had a homicide in our Metro Parks for over two decades
01:02:51
well I don't know how much confidence I have in your experience in investigating
01:02:58
these matters these very serious matters now if it were a situation where I was worried
01:03:06
about if people were walking their dogs on a leash or off of a leash I feel very
01:03:10
confident that the Metro Parks police would straighten that situation out but this is that's not what we're
01:03:17
talking about here so do you want to play garage guy and lead us into this eyewitness and let me play
01:03:26
Generation Y guy or should we remain in our roles well let's just see what I say so
01:03:36
there was a letter that came into the media right and it went to Fox 8 news this Anonymous
01:03:45
letter was sent in and it went into detail about the person who had shot Carnell Sledge and Kate
01:03:54
Brown now they said it was a woman wearing a green hoodie cuffed jeans and black walking shoes
01:04:04
and it also said that this woman had words with Carnell before she opened fire so Fox 8 News got this letter
01:04:14
they turned it over to the FBI now this letter came in months after the murders but in May of 2021 that's when Fox 8
01:04:26
released that letter to the public and the FBI put out a plea saying if you wrote this please come forward we want
01:04:34
to talk with you and they got lucky because within a week a person showed up to talk to the police
01:04:42
about it now once again you're wondering what could we find out because the police
01:04:47
have been so tight-lipped so I would say take this with a grain of salt because we don't know what they're
01:04:54
doing here because in any investigation you have to be careful about what you release sometimes they release nothing
01:05:00
sometimes they release a lot but they hold a few things back the spokesperson for the police said
01:05:07
that individual told us it was a premonition that they'd had several times and they felt like it was coming
01:05:13
to them and they needed to report it it was nothing that they had seen yeah and so this got the area in quite a
01:05:23
stir right so when this news broke that they received an anonymous letter and and and in fact
01:05:31
the way that the news broke it almost implied that it was just an eyewitness that came forward and then then shortly
01:05:37
thereafter you learned that it come it came via Anonymous letter they yes did release that letter and
01:05:49
when I reviewed it the first thing that I thought was this doesn't sound like a an eyewitness
01:05:57
and I know you've reviewed these for the Generation Y in cases that you've reviewed
01:06:04
the words and the way that they were describing things and and in particular I'll read one statement that was in the
01:06:12
letter that kind of showed the cards to me that this was coming from a person that believes that they have psychic
01:06:20
abilities it says they ask a question to the investigators now yes this was sent to the media and
01:06:30
not to law enforcement so it says none of my business but none of my business by were sorry I'm reading
01:06:38
their exact words which gets difficult none of my business I believe they're trying to say but were the two talking
01:06:45
marriage meaning Carnell and Kate don't believe this was the motive and correct me if I'm wrong on on any of
01:06:55
these portions here Aaron then they go on to say I hit a snag I thought I had a name but
01:07:03
who said the name wasn't Cornell or Kate it was a white man sitting on the bench
01:07:09
with Sandy brown hair and glasses like Drew Carey he was looking behind the bench at the woman and he said quote for
01:07:19
God's sake Amy put down the gun but the more the woman was talked to the more agitated and irate she became
01:07:29
the I hit a snag was the telling part to me I thought I had a name you hear that often when psychics are
01:07:40
giving their reports you know I'm oh I'm I thought I was getting a name or I last
01:07:48
time I I had this vision I I saw a name or heard a name and so when immediately when I saw that
01:07:57
I thought I hope this psychic this air quotes witness comes forward to clear up that they weren't
01:08:06
actually there that day but how do people respond to this how does law enforcement respond to this
01:08:12
when someone is coming forward with a lot of information but then it turns out they dreamed it or had a vision of it
01:08:23
it's the whole Oh I thought I was getting a name or I thought I was getting more information then suddenly I
01:08:29
lost it but I do have this much well you want to know why they came forward and so you if you are this person you've
01:08:36
just opened yourself up to investigation and one thing you do have on your side one thing that I would say you have in
01:08:46
your favor as looking less guilty than more guilty would be that you did in fact come forward and say hey yes it was
01:08:52
me I was the person that wrote that letter and no I was not there at the park that day
01:08:59
but I'm just trying to help out and I've been having these dreams or visions or whatever and I can't shake them and I'm
01:09:06
I maybe I'm just a good person and I thought I could help out they look like good people I wanted to try to help
01:09:13
there's that possibility there's also the possibility that and I would think that this would be less likely I would I
01:09:19
would think that the person would likely not come forward if they were trying to
01:09:23
throw a wrench in the investigation um but if it was a a man of color who was responsible then
01:09:32
of course somebody would throw out the idea that well it was this woman that looked like Reba McIntyre uh with a
01:09:39
hoodie on uh so yeah it's it's one of the weird weirder ends of this case or weirder angles
01:09:49
anyway of this case and at first I didn't know what to to make of it and I know that the the news kind of ran
01:09:59
with this Anonymous letter for for a portion anyway for several months well I think
01:10:05
they had to right they were wanting to report on this case the police weren't giving them anything
01:10:11
this letter was the only thing really to report on at that point well the families wanted
01:10:17
more attention to and rightfully so to their loved ones case and I'm thankful to the media Outlets that
01:10:28
were choosing to run the story and remind the the people of this case one thing we should point out too is
01:10:35
there's a considerable award or sorry a considerable reward for money a money reward here in this case
01:10:46
one hundred thousand dollars my understanding Aaron is that 25 000 of that is being put up by the Federal
01:10:54
Bureau of Investigation and the other seventy five thousand is from the family yeah I know that at first the
01:11:05
FBI offered a twenty thousand dollar reward Crime Stoppers offer two thousand five hundred dollars for information
01:11:13
um later of course these amounts increased including money from uh the families so
01:11:22
yeah it's a hundred thousand dollars so when you have a crime like this that's so Brazen right
01:11:29
in full view of the public or you would imagine and this person got away with it so far
01:11:36
a hundred thousand dollars if you would think that would bring forth some more tips
01:11:41
someone would want to claim that if they knew something and what's Wild about that anonymous tip and then of
01:11:48
course later we learned that it it's not Anonymous the person comes forward but I remember on the news reports
01:11:58
that they were saying that there were some details that they believed that the anonymous tipster got correct
01:12:04
in in their in their letter and so it held a little bit of weight right it was holding water a little bit or at least
01:12:12
portions of it and so again that's just one of those I I don't know I I and there are people
01:12:21
out there that are shaking their head at me right now they're like why would you
01:12:23
put any um thought why would you waste your time on it as soon as you hear that it's a
01:12:29
person saying that they're getting visions I don't know that I'm betting much on what they're saying but
01:12:37
I do know that there are detectives that I've spoke to that would say nope throw it right out
01:12:45
it's a waste of time there are other detectives that will tell you you know what when you've run out of ideas you're
01:12:50
willing to take phone calls from anyone tell me something that's outside of the box tell me something that I haven't
01:13:01
thought of yet and oh by the way tell me why you think this or do you have any of any information to
01:13:07
to back that up I really believe you can't throw everything out can't throw anything out you might take something
01:13:14
that came in and say okay this isn't going to solve the case for us but maybe it's a puzzle piece
01:13:22
that you don't know how it fits into the whole thing but it's a piece so you can't throw it out
01:13:29
I think once you start uh getting tunnel vision in such an open-ended case like this
01:13:36
you could definitely make some mistakes you also have to wonder as a detective when you look at something like this why
01:13:44
did this person have such a strong desire to to the point of it becoming a need that they had to reach out
01:13:52
communicate this information to somebody even though it was a news Outlet instead of law
01:13:58
enforcement why why do they come forward and it may Simply Be they believe that their
01:14:07
psychic it also could be more of an emotional response they feel guilty because they know
01:14:15
something or they heard something or somebody they know knows something and that too goes back to this reward
01:14:24
money one hundred thousand dollars is not a reward that is put together for somebody
01:14:32
that was in the park that day that saw something and just decided not to come forward or forgot that they saw
01:14:39
something or heard something or did see something and they're too afraid no in my opinion
01:14:49
one hundred thousand dollars that reward is put together for somebody who has direct information
01:14:55
from the killer or one of the killers that somebody told somebody somebody made a threat
01:15:04
oh you know the you know that that thing that happened to those people in the Park oh you know I could do that to you
01:15:11
or maybe they were talking about one of those individuals beforehand talking about how upset they were with them and
01:15:17
then they were quiet after the murders exactly exactly I don't think that whoever did this and I again would bet a
01:15:27
Benjamin Franklin right now that it was a targeted attack just as we're being told
01:15:34
I can't figure out who was the target one the other or both but I don't believe for a second that 10
01:15:42
minutes before this happened this person decided to do this I think this likely was something that
01:15:49
was building and as you said they may have told somebody in advance maybe not that they
01:15:55
are planning to go to the park maybe not that they're planning to take somebody out
01:16:00
but that they had a beef with one of these people had a big problem with either Cornell or with Kate
01:16:07
and damn it they were going to do something about it and so that's what this reward money is
01:16:14
for um so if you're out there and you hear this stop sitting on your hands come forward
01:16:22
you know they have we have multiple law enforcement agencies that you can reach out to there's also a
01:16:29
dedicated tip line where you can be anonymous so anybody with information can call the
01:16:37
Cleveland Branch the Cleveland FBI Branch at 216-522-1400 or you could call that dedicated Metro
01:16:47
Parks police tip line at 440 331 -5219 is there anything that we missed Aaron or anything that we did not get to
01:17:02
yes definitely for people that want to know how this may have gone down they should check out an animation put
01:17:10
together by Scott Roeder he did this in 2021 he's a crime scene Reconstructionist with the evidence room
01:17:18
and he used the autopsy report and he also visited the crime scene to put this together so I think it's helpful to
01:17:26
actually see it and um I definitely hope that someone listening maybe can make a difference in this case
01:17:37
because that's why we're covering it we would like for people to think about this case keep
01:17:42
it alive because I would hate to think that Carnell Sledge and Kate Brown died and that
01:17:48
their families will not get Justice Aaron I want to thank you for joining me here in the garage it's always a
01:17:54
pleasure always a lot of fun um given the circumstances obviously we're talking about these real life
01:18:01
tragedies and the loss of these two great people and these two families are suffering a lot still and and need the
01:18:10
Public's help to get some form of in some sense of closure but I do want to thank you for
01:18:18
joining me and and taking the time out and I'm hoping we can do it again absolutely anytime man you just let me
01:18:25
know all right take care Cheers Cheers [Music] all right lots of great stuff from one
01:18:42
half of the great Generation Y podcast our recommendation this week if you haven't already go and check out the
01:18:51
Generation Y podcast your ear balls are going to love it and when you're there you just might find the captain if you
01:18:59
do tell him I said hi we will be back at it again next week so make sure you stop
01:19:05
by the garage and see us and until then be good be kind and don't live thank you