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thank you [Music] [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
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listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man that Ponders the mysteries of the universe asking himself
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are we human or are we dancer ladies and gentlemen here is the captain yeah dancing my way into your hearts it's
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good to be seen and good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a friend
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[Music] today we are sipping on this fine lager from unplugged Brewing Company Muni lot
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lager it's a smooth clean and delicious lager with some malt and a little caramel ABV five percent garage grade
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four and a five bottle caps and you know who else is smooth and clean well our garage friends right here first up a
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nice Southern cheers to melody in Pensacola Florida and a big we like to jib to Casey and Sunnyville Texas here's
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a double cheers to Rudy and Adrian and beautiful Rancho Cordova California and a big shout to Lindsay in Seattle
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Washington next up here's a cheers to Kelly in Mechanicsville Virginia and let's give a cheers to Kelsey and Keller
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Texas and last but certainly not least Captain we have Cheyenne and Jacob in Wichita Kansas big ups and big thank you
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to everyone who contributed to this week's beer fun tall cans in the air yeah bwr-u-n beer run and be patient folks
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because the beer one we're behind light years behind but announcement for everybody in parts Unknown make sure you
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get your Halloween posters there on sale now and a limited number of those are available so that's enough of the
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business I gather round grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime [Music]
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at the time of Kathy name is murder October of 2002 local authorities and officials were already aware of the
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embezzlement scandal going down at the fire department one of the fire department's employees as of that same
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month had already been charged in the embezzlement Scandal this was Matthew Becker who was the former fire
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department executive board Treasurer he was fired from the fire department after
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he admitted to police in an August 2002 interview they had embezzled at least 3 500 from the fire department's account
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the criminal complaint stated Becker stated that he did this because he needed the money and felt that the town
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of elcho owed him the money because of the [ __ ] he put up with Becker faced charges of felony theft misconduct in
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public office and possession of drug paraphernalia eventually he pled no contest to felony
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misconduct in public office and was sentenced to four months in jail the Wausau Herald reported on October 17th
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quote rumors have spread throughout this small town that the problems at the fire
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department and namith's death I wish they would put name as murder may have been connected in some way but
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police say they have so far found no link Sheriff Dave stagger admitted that anything was possible and said that
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investigators were weighing the embezzlement lead equally with other unrelated leads but others downplayed
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the likelihood dismissing any connection as local gossip elcho Town chairman Richard Elson said to the newspaper
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quote my answer to that is that's extremely unlikely why would somebody get killed over a lousy few thousand
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dollars my personal feeling has been all along that she was just in the wrong place at the wrong time a random act of
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violence in no way connected to the political situation in elcho everything about this whole thing is strange none
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of it makes any any sense which is even more unsettling to the locals we are like any other small town things like
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this don't happen end quote Yeah but why would anybody risk their job for a measly a few thousand dollars I mean
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people have been killed for Less now David namith Kathy's husband was charged in the embezzlement case and later David
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was fired for this situation just three months after Kathy's murder ultimately David was facing seven criminal charges
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some of them felonies basically David was illicitly paying himself out of the fire department's account writing
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himself checks during the time period of 1999 to 2001 and then he lied about it to the
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embezzlement investigator David pled no contest to theft disorderly conduct and obstruction in May of
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2004. so David was on the take stealing money from the fire department fund over
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at least a three-year time period now it's not clear how much he took but the complaint states that in 2000 and 2001
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he paid himself amounts in excess of that authorized by law in other words he paid himself more than his salary
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allowed when the whole thing came out in late 2002 early 2003 he was fired as fire chief as well as criminally
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prosecuted despite David being charged it does not seem that investigators were able to connect the embezzlement and
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Kathy's murder they reached out to the FBI for assistance in the case and took suggestions on how to proceed with the
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investigation but nothing was resolved and authorities were frustrated that they couldn't figure out or solve this
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murder but there was something else here captain in this case now we have Lieutenant Baker who told the Wausau
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Herald one very important thing Catherine Namath was a subject of the investigation as well but Lieutenant
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Baker declined to speculate on whether she too would have been charged and he pointed out that while the
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embezzlement's connection to Kathy's murder has always been rumored no connection had ever been identified
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publicly according to the herald okay so Kathy our murder victim not just her husband David was being investigated as
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possibly involved in the embezzlement Scandal as well which is more than fair because as we're going to see as an I'm
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about to tell you here she was in fact involved that's right she alongside of her husband was taking money from the
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outro fire department we foiled the complaint against David Namath and as we just laid it out for you it
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alleges that he overpaid himself for three years and then lied about it Liar Liar fired man's pants on fire who else
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received excessive funds from the fire department that's right it was Kathy nameth as well so Kathy and David
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co-signed a check written on the elcho fire department's account on November 15th of 1999 in the amount of 1 500
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payable to Kathy Namath but that's not all the complaint alleges that in 2000 and in 2001 David not only overpaid
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himself from the fun but he was overpaying his wife as well I guess there's a chance that maybe she was
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unaware of any of this but to me it doesn't seem very likely it seems much more likely that she was simply involved
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in this whole situation bro and he could have started doing this and maybe she's
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in charge of the family's checkbook or maybe she went into the bank account was like well we have a little bit more
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money than we should or wow David made a little bit more money than he normally does and started questioning him and
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then he goes well yeah I'm taking a little bit on the side but hey I'll give you some as well yeah I'm not going to
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speculate on how she became involved or what went down and look it wasn't just the two of them it's it's clear that
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there were several people that were not only aware of what was going on but were
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involved in in on the take as well well at least they're equipped to put out their pants on fire so Kathy herself was
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being investigated in connection with the embezzlement scandal and literally two days before she was
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supposed to talk to police she gets murdered I'm not a big conspiracy theorist but you just play one on TV I
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don't usually like conspiracies in these types of situations because most of the
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time the the simplest explanation is usually correct but this is just too big of a coincidence to to dance around it
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right it's too big of a coincidence to not take a look at it and throw it under the microscope and say okay are these
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things related and then one thing that's very difficult to believe is that Kathy
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just happened to be killed less than 48 hours before the meeting where she was supposed to go and tell police what was
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going on when she was being investigated Captain she told police look I I will cooperate and I will tell
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you everything that I know right now that could have just been saving face or that could have just been making herself
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look good in the course of that investigation we don't know because she never got the chance to speak with them
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to tell them whatever she was intending to tell them she was killed instead well
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and they haven't been transparent and her involvement like you said and the embezzlement we don't know because she
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was not charged so there is a possibility your husband is the chief if he says hey come into my office I I have
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this check and I need you to sign it oh what's it for and he gives her some Hook
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Line and Sinker and she buys it and then he cashes the check she might not have been
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like you said we don't know what her level of involvement was or how much she knew and maybe she had a bunch of
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questions herself and once she's now going to trial or going to this meeting to say hey this is what I know and this
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is what I've seen going on this could be the nail in her husband's coffin and other people's coffin and there would be
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reason for somebody to not want her to talk and again when people say well it's just a few thousand dollars no you you
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possibly could go to prison and on top of that you're losing your job which is your livelihood right and the thing that
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I think that is difficult here though when we when we analyze the murder or how ever this went down whoever is
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responsible or why it happened to begin with you you weigh that against the other things that are going on right
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especially when you have this embezzlement thing that's so close to the murder investigation but it's one of
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those things that I kind of lean a little bit more toward what the local chairman was saying as well that it's
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not a ton of money it's just a couple of thousand dollars she seems to have been
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involved herself the charges themselves don't carry with them lengthy prison sentences we're talking about months in
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jail and fines that would be paid of course any of these things are uncomfortable and things that nobody
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wants and consequences that probably nobody wants to face but it seems awfully risky to me to jump
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from what would be felony charges that are ultimately reduced to misdemeanor charges and misdemeanor type
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consequences to something as premeditated murder and so I I tend to share some of the same feelings that the
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the chairman was stating there now that doesn't mean that they're not connected in some form or fashion they absolutely
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could be there's also some rumor that possibly Drug Money may have been involved now this could be this could
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push this to a heightened level here so this might get a little complicated here
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so I am going to ask that you bear with me there was okay fine we will there's a
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local drug dealer in the langled county named Daniel J Zahn all right in March of 1999 the
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county authorities received an anonymous tip that a large drug transaction was about to go down at the kempster Inn
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Tavern police staked out the area and pulled over a drunk driver her name was Denise
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entertson who proved to have marijuana on her person she had gotten it she said from a David Zahn whom she met earlier
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at that kempster and Tavern according to Denise Zahn told her that he had at least a pound of marijuana in his
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possession and he had been dealing in the area for over a year she had seen large amounts of pot at his house and
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purchased from him in the past this was enough for the county deputies to get a search warrant for Zan's house where
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they found a bunch of pot they arrested zon now zon would not give up his sources meaning the persons who sold him
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the bulk amounts of marijuana that he turned around and then sold to private individuals in smaller transactions he
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pled guilty to possession with intent to distribute before too long it became apparent who zon's sources were zon
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had been getting his Supply from two milwaukee-based dealers these are Partners named Donald costelski and
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Brian schnarsky bald snarsky he admitted this in a court well in this area Captain there's going to be a lot of
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skis skeet ski he admitted this in a court proceeding on July 31st 2003. kastelski and schnarsky operated out of
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Milwaukee but also had a local apartment that was the Hub of their Lang lead County distribution Network
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police put together a case against kastowski for being the supplier for the 1999 deal that had resulted in zahn's
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arrest in March of 2005 a criminal complaint was filed against kostelski charging him
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with possession with intent to deliver eventually he pled out to recklessly endangering Public Safety in January of
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2008 all he got for this was two years probation okay so what would this have to do with Kathy Namath and her murder
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as said it's a little complicated but kuskelski would end up facing more charges and they were related to Kathy's
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case so let's back up and explain a little bit to try to get to the bottom of whether Kathy's case and the
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embezzlement case were related investigators held a series of closed secret hearings we've discussed this in
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some other cases that we've covered it's a pretty rare thing here but it does go
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down and these are called John Doe hearings the wsaw News 7 says that these hearings quote they're typically used
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when an investigation is being thwarted or impeded and can be used to force witnesses to testify in a secret hearing
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it helps us get testimony or information from people who may not be willing to come forward
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closed door hearings on Kathy's homicide case were held by the district attorney
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starting on January 24th 2008 but the purpose scope and outcome of these hearings has never been made public
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there was clearly some connection being explored between Kathy's case and the drug dealing going on in the area the
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FBI and the Wisconsin Department of Justice and division of criminal investigation were all cited in these
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matters so some bigger agencies being involved and somewhat Loosely tied to Kathy namus case we were able to find
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out about these closed-door hearings only by foia request and this was based off of criminal perjury charges that
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stemmed from one of the drug dealers Donald costelski lying under oath at these hearings a
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drug dealer and a liar imagine that wow I only trust a truthful honest drug dealer I only get my drugs from honest
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drug dealers and with the with the current state of marijuana and pot and all that it it almost like these things
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almost silly seem a little silly to go back and kind of circle around them like vultures but but it's important to this
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case so kastelski the dishonest drug dealer was called to testify as an unwilling witness and he is fresh off of
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his 2008 conviction that reckless endangerment conviction that we spoke of and he lied his ass off on the stand
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we don't have transcripts as they are all under seal and we certainly don't know most of what was testified to but
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we do know that on the stand kastelski was asked about whether he had ever hunted in Langley County okay so the
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Department of Natural Resources records showed that he had yeah you can't handle
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the truth they also wanted to know if he owned a gun and whether he had ever sold drugs to
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Dan's on and on the stand kastelski was asked if he had ever sold drugs to Matthew Becker remember that name he was
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the guy that was already being charged in the embezzlement scandal at the same time that Kathy Namath was murdered yes
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Kietzke so Matthew Becker was the first employee of the elcho fire department to
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be charged in the embezzlement scandal in 2002. he was a co-worker of Kathy and David namis kastowski denied selling
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drugs to Becker but authorities had plenty of witnesses including Becker's wife who said that this in fact did
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happen so Becker was getting his drugs from the same person Daniel Zahn was getting his Supply from Donald kostelski
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why were this prolific local drug dealer was Donald costelski and his partner Brian schnarsky called to testify at
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hearings trying to get to the bottom of Kathy namus murder well we know that Kathy was on the verge
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of talking to investigators about the whole embezzlement ring and Matthew Becker her co-worker was involved in
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that along with her and was also connected to the drug dealers but there's more kastelski and schnarsky
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were also connected to David Namath her husband this is from the same news outlet that we've cited all day and all
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day yesterday and their report says Deputy John Shunk says investigators have looked at the case every which way
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possible they even took advantage of a court proceeding known as John Doe hearings during the secret of
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proceedings prosecutors found that two men who they asked to testify and who knew David Namath were not being
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truthful investigators believe they know more than they are letting on Kathy may
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have known these people obviously we can't completely confirm that Shunk said the pair were buddies of Matthew Beckers
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and police say had knowledge of the elcho area having spent time there hunting police say they have a theory as
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to why Kathy was murdered but without enough evidence to charge anyone with her murder they won't say what their
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theory is yeah that's pretty good that news release to me Captain is incredibly interesting because what were they
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saying before all of these Court proceedings was that we're not sure who murdered her or why yeah but then after
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these Court proceedings and after they become aware of these two drug dealers that were known to hunt in this area and
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then later lied about any knowledge of the area being in the area hunting in the area owning guns got them guns son
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now police are saying we have a theory but without any evidence without enough evidence to charge someone we're not
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comfortable with presenting what our theory is as to why and how Kathy Namath was murdered
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[Music] [Music] cheers to you Wisconsin cheers to everybody in the back in the front
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and everybody around the campfire cheers so this newer information tells us that authorities seem to believe that
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there was in fact some connection between David Kathy Matthew Becker and the drug
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dealers these guys the drug dealers had guns and frequented the area and are in fact
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sketchy criminals but we have no idea what if anything was uncovered because the information has
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never been made public we don't know the relationship between these men and David
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and we don't know whether they knew Kathy or she knew them well it seems to me like this in embezzlement was a
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little more in-depth than just oh I took some money here and there slap on the wrist there there could have been more
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involved there's been whole police departments that are stealing drugs stealing evidence when they arrest
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somebody if there's money on that person they just take the money because then use that money to have drug houses so
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where it seems like it's just a simple oh I'm overpaying myself here and there it could be way more complex than that
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possibly but what I see when I look at this thing is a situation where it very likely could simply be that David and
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Kathy were embezzling money so the tie between the the two drug dealers and Becker is this middle man zon who is a
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much lower level drug dealer so you have the situation where multiple people are
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embezzling money and are aware of what everybody's doing but you may have some people in that
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Circle I believe it was a total of five people that they were investigating for the embezzlement
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Kathy included but you may have two of them David and Kathy who were just simply paying themselves a little extra
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taking a little off the top where this Becker character may have been involved in some other
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situations outside of that his tie to the namith is that he's involved in this embezzlement Scandal as well right now
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what we do know is that castelski and schnarsky were both prosecuted for perjury after those John Doe hearings
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they both lied on the stand and the D.A knew that they were lying and ended up proving it well snarsky is a known liar
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so kostalski was prosecuted for perjury a felony and convicted in September of 2010 after agreeing to a plea agreement
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for two years probation pursuant to the plea agreement per w s a w news a judge ordered him to tell the truth to
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investigators or risk going to prison there was a new sheriff that took over in that county and this is Sheriff
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Greening who says that he doesn't know exactly how kastelski may have been involved in Kathy name is murder but he
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does think that he has information so the new sheriff not necessarily saying that this kastelski character right
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committed the murder but the sheriff is on record as stating he's pretty confident that kostelski knows something
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has some kind of information that the sheriff's department does not have now your buddy Captain Brian schnarsky
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they was prosecuted as well and you were right he he is a liar and the court of law says so right he
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was found guilty of perjury after a jury trial and as a condition of his probation was required to give a DNA
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sample again this all ties back to the Kathy Namath murder right now I couldn't find
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this is what I wanted to figure out was kostalski the other liar pants on fire was he was
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a part of his conditions of the plea agreement to give a DNA sample as well I'm guessing so I would think so and
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that makes sense in this case because what we learn in Kathy namus murder investigation relatively quickly after
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this or about the same time is that they do confirm we suspected it at the beginning of the investigation but it
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was later confirmed that in fact they did have suspect DNA in her murder this comes from a February 2007 news report
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that stated that Wisconsin State Crime Lab was able to isolate a male DNA profile from evidence found at the Kathy
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Namath murder scene now whether this was DNA on the knife remember they recovered
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the knife uh the knife handle yeah or this or on her person because she put up a fight
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that's right or blood you know maybe they found some blood that they could confirm was not Kathy's at the scene as
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you said put up a fight maybe there's maybe perhaps DNA under her fingernails well in this case if I'm law enforcement
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right I'm looking at this case I go look how many people are going to know where
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her parents cabin is located right that's that's the first now we we have people saying look nobody knew she was
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going to go out there that night and then we have this embezzlement thing that's connected with her husband look
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if this guy's willing to still a little bit of money from his work and because he he thinks he aren't he
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earned it or whatever reason if he's willing to steal and lie maybe he's willing to
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cheat on his wife who knows but if I'm law enforcement and I'm coming into this case I have all
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those questions right away okay now we have a victim that struggled with her attacker with her murderer and we have
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physical evidence first person I'm testing is her husband and what we have here Captain is the new
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sheriff Bill Greening told the media in late February of 2007 that the sheriff's
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department had already conducted 12 samples or I'm sorry had already collected 12 samples from quote Persons
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of Interest for comparison to the suspect DNA sample that they had Now by March of 2008
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so about one year later they go on record the sheriff's department goes on record saying that 24 persons had been
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compared to the suspect sample with no luck so we've we've tested 24 people collected their DNA and tested it
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against what we have the suspect DNA and we've not been able to make a match yet
00:29:41
now the sheriff did say that that 24 the 24 samples that they had included some Persons of Interest but did also include
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some emergency Personnel who were responding to the scene right you got to do your due diligence and make sure you
00:29:59
clear them so that you're actually testing and comparing for suspect DNA that makes sense and as you said Captain
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look we have David Namath and I don't have every bit of information on where he was what he was up to but it seems to
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me he must have an Ironclad Alibi because we know that Kathy radioed about a scruffy looking man who she didn't
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know who it was and then later David is responding to the scene with their son they must know where he was and feel
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confident about where he was prior to him arriving at the murder scene yeah but just to do your due diligence I
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think he would test him as well he's there before emergency workers are there so if you're going to test them
00:30:52
why not test him as well correct I'm not suggesting you don't I'm I'm just saying
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that they I think we could con presume that yes they have that they have tested I agree I agree then let's Circle back
00:31:05
to the drug dealers because this is going to kind of come full circle well we wish that it would go full circle
00:31:12
maybe we'd have some answers but in 2008 there was a tip in February of 2008 Dan's on the drug
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dealer from the 1999 deal contacted the sheriff's office with a tip Dan Zahn told officials that he had
00:31:28
information about the Kathy Namath murder and who was involved so they set up a meeting to talk in person on February
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22nd unfortunately Zahn died before this meeting according to all the reports that we
00:31:44
could find Zahn passed away from quote unquote natural causes at the age of 42 on February 20th perhaps he was
00:31:53
ill someone posted on a message board that he had cancer and might have wanted to clear his
00:32:01
conscience before passing but then pass before he could do so the timing is really interesting to me I
00:32:08
mean you think he could have wrote it down or something well not only that like why not
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meet with him as soon as possible right I mean right I'm not I don't want to question anybody or what they were doing
00:32:21
and maybe they didn't take him serious who knows maybe he didn't have good information we don't know because he was
00:32:27
unable to deliver the information but it's just weird to me that that these things seem to be that something like
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this happened and this thing whatever information he was going to give to them could have broke this case wide open now
00:32:43
the Sheriff's Office did do their due diligence by going out and getting a search warrant and seizing his computer
00:32:51
his camera and other items from his home the day after he died if they found anything
00:33:00
on of interest it's not been released to the public so just to sum that up Dan's
00:33:06
on the drug dealer connected to the other drug dealers connected to the namus through an
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unknown relationship but through this Becker guy that they worked with basically through the embezzlement he
00:33:20
said he had information about Kathy's death but dot but died before he could relay it
00:33:25
so anyone's guess is a good guess as to what information he was going to give to
00:33:31
authorities but doesn't this kind of prove it in your mind that her death is connected
00:33:37
to this embezzlement I feel like I I don't know that the embezzlement is the Catalyst for her murder I think it's
00:33:45
probably just one more thing that's involved in in something else that we may not be entirely aware of
00:33:53
that somebody in this circle is involved in now not to throw a big fat wrench into the whole thing but I
00:34:03
found this to be an interesting angle here Captain we'll try to throw a medium-sized wrench someone posted on a
00:34:11
Wisconsin website and this is this is uh what they posted it says Kathy Namath's murder investigation
00:34:19
wasn't conducted properly and is being Revisited the hardest part of the investigation includes tracking down the
00:34:27
people who were partying up at one of the cabins on Loon Lake that weekend they were never questioned to begin with
00:34:36
so tracking down who they were has been incredibly difficult so this makes it sound like one of the cabins up at Loon
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Lake that weekend if this Anonymous tipster or poster is correct and being truthful and has good information that
00:34:54
there was some kind of party going on at one of those cabins and this person seems to have reason to
00:35:00
believe that these people were not investigated not questioned right away after the murder and so now that the
00:35:10
case is being Revisited remember we do have a new sheriff in town that tracking down anybody that could
00:35:16
have been there that night or in that general area is incredibly difficult because this is
00:35:22
years after the fact and not to go like too far off base but this kind of reminds me of of something maybe like a
00:35:32
Bundy would do and the sense of like oh if I'm going to go up and hang out with my buddies and we're going to party here
00:35:38
I'm now around this small Lake that has all these other occupants I mean it's pretty far-fetched I'm just
00:35:46
saying that's basically what it seems like this internet poster is or this internet
00:35:53
sleuth there is [Music] um presenting is that somebody at the party is responsible for her murder yes
00:36:02
somebody at one of these parties or and then you gotta Wonder like okay if you can tie these drug dealers to that area
00:36:09
which it sounds like the prosecutor did that's how they got the perjury convictions is it crazy to think that
00:36:16
they weren't there for a multitude of reasons right that they're there because of Kathy or they're there because of
00:36:23
this party and and didn't really know Kathy at all I mean it gets it's a very confusing murky situation and it's it's
00:36:32
a situation where they've not released a lot of information so it makes it very difficult to to really kind of grab a
00:36:39
hold of a theory and run with it like I think there's a lot of good theories out
00:36:44
there the husband could have been involved you always got to consider that and then you you put the icing on the
00:36:50
cake with the husband that he's involved in illegal activity anyway with the embezzlement Scandal but then again I
00:36:57
keep going back to it's not a ton of money Kathy's involved another guy the investigation was already like very
00:37:05
active so much so that another dude was already charged right so it almost seems
00:37:10
to me like if you were looking to cover up the embezzlement thing to begin with OR to silence Kathy Namath that you
00:37:17
would have done it well before this day that it seems a little late in that ball
00:37:22
game to be taking her out to shut her up well what's interesting in this case to me is
00:37:28
that they tested all these individuals for the DNA and I think it's very responsible to go hey we're going to
00:37:35
test the emergency responders so we know that okay we know whose DNA is on her so
00:37:42
I think law enforcement has to be sitting pretty again going hey we have DNA that we believe is a hundred percent
00:37:48
the killer of Miss ameth so if they have that why not start testing that DNA and
00:37:56
put it through the systems and and maybe you find you know a relative of somebody
00:38:01
well that wouldn't be putting it through the system but I hear you yeah I would guess that by this point they've already
00:38:07
put it through CODIS and that would be the system so that would be connecting it to any known
00:38:13
offender DNA that you already have on file so put it through that system which we don't have any statement you're right
00:38:19
Captain we don't have any statement that says in fact that they did that I'm guessing that they would have once
00:38:25
they've already started testing EMT workers and people that responded to the scene and then Persons of Interest but
00:38:31
you're right this if you do think that she was targeted I keep circling back to the idea that there wouldn't have been a
00:38:38
ton of people that would have known that she would have been there at that time on that day so your suspect list cannot
00:38:45
be that long if you're really locked in on that theory and now you have at least
00:38:52
24 people that you've cleared as far as not being a match to the DNA well but if
00:38:59
I'm in law enforcement this this case is frustrating because there's not a ton of
00:39:04
information I mean you know maybe there's way more behind closed doors that we don't know about this has gone
00:39:11
on for so long and it's pretty popular case at least in that area known around Loon Lake
00:39:19
test the DNA well and we are sitting here recording this episode in the garage exactly 19 years to the day that she was
00:39:31
murdered so 19 years have gone by and I don't know that we're any closer to this
00:39:37
than we were at the initial stages of the investigation the thing that I think is a real big kick in the in the pants
00:39:45
here is it this stands on passed away right and apparently he had some kind of information that he felt was necessary
00:39:53
to pass along to police literally literally 19 years and Perkins the thing with this case
00:40:03
Captain was I was excited to look into this one because I was suspicious of the husband because I was aware of the
00:40:10
embezzlement scandal on the surface I was aware that he was involved and then quickly learning that
00:40:17
she was involved as well made that angle of it not so of such great importance to me I really thought
00:40:25
that what we would be able to see here is take a look at him and his son responding to the scene what her words
00:40:32
were on that radio transmission and basing that off of look if you're responding to the scene and you you
00:40:40
killed her or you had someone kill her it's not ideal that she's still alive once First Responders are showing up and
00:40:49
may be able to give up the goose right and so I wanted to be able to look at that situation in that portion of this
00:40:55
case and be able to rule him in or out but it looks like even with the information that we've
00:41:03
talked about for the past hour or so I'm nowhere closer to knowing whether he was
00:41:09
involved or not like you said back in the last episode I think his Alibi is probably pretty solid
00:41:17
and then also by him taking his son to me that leans more towards innocent because
00:41:24
you have the possibility if you were involved somehow or she recognized the person and that
00:41:33
person was connected back to him that she if she was still alive she would be she would have the capability
00:41:40
of giving that information to her son and it's really unclear about the information that she was able to tell
00:41:49
her husband or not tell her husband you know what I mean we have to sit here and
00:41:52
go well were the authorities just kind of taking his word for it that he arrives on the scene and she says yeah I
00:41:58
don't know who the guy was I didn't you know I didn't recognize him I don't know
00:42:02
who my attacker was or did she say hey I recognize who the person was and her husband knows that he's connected
00:42:11
Loosely to this embezzlement that and that ties him together with this person and so he doesn't say anything to
00:42:19
protect himself the other thing too is we have the statement of police saying that it appears to them that that or
00:42:25
they have evidence it's not that it appears to us we have evidence that she was running from her attacker
00:42:32
and that put up a big fight and tried to get away from him doing everything she could you know it sounds to me like
00:42:40
things were Disturbed in the area that would give them evidence that she was fleeing this guy and I know that when
00:42:48
you look at Footprints and compare Footprints you can tell when somebody's running rather than walking and the
00:42:54
other thing you would have is you would have his Footprints running after her to kind
00:43:01
of confirm that what we don't have is we have very bad reporting on and this is no one's fault because it's not the
00:43:09
police's job to distribute this information to everyone but we don't have great reporting about the crime
00:43:15
scene itself right the reporter's fault we're told yeah but they what information are they
00:43:22
going to get if the police won't tell them anything what what we have here is we have the statement of well we don't
00:43:27
think she made it into the cabin we don't think that the cabin was burglarized we think that she fled the
00:43:33
attacker that there was some kind of Chase involved but we have really no information when it comes down to the
00:43:40
crime scene itself that's what I really wanted to get my hands on in this situation I wanted to know about her
00:43:46
vehicle when she sees this weird dude we know that there was something off-putting about him or his actions or
00:43:53
his look or whatever that was alarming enough to her that she felt the need to radio out to everyone
00:44:00
but why not jump in your vehicle and flee the scene why not try to barricade yourself inside the cabin or hide behind
00:44:08
the chainsaw why did those things not happen maybe she attempted to do one or both of those in the course of being
00:44:14
attacked it's again we just don't have enough information about the murder scene to really come to any type of
00:44:22
strong conclusions in this case it's it's really a sad case and I what I'm hoping
00:44:30
is that the sheriff the current sheriff is correct and right that DNA will solve
00:44:36
this case and thank God that they do seem to have suspect DNA in this case because it might be the only thing that
00:44:42
they do have you know I'm hoping that this case does not go cold there's not been a ton of movement on it
00:44:48
in the recent years and regardless of the embezzlement or whatever look none of us are perfect angels
00:44:55
but whatever happened to Kathy was horrible and Despicable and whether it was random or targeted it's very sad
00:45:03
there likely is a very bad man on the loose that's capable of stabbing someone to death
00:45:12
foreign [Music] make sure you subscribe to the podcast and make sure you check out our website
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True Crime garage for everything true crime Colonel do we have any recommended reading how about a little recommended
00:45:45
listening Captain look we were off a couple of weeks ago and I got several emails from some of our beautiful weekly
00:45:51
listeners that said hey where's this week's episode True Crime garage is my favorite podcast and I don't have
00:45:57
anything to listen to and my reply was the same each time sent them the following questions are you subscribed
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to our other show the show that is sweeping the nation off the Record next week we are releasing off the Record
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that by going to truecrimegarage.com click on the off the Record link and start listening today thanks to everyone
00:46:36
for joining us this week here in the garage cheers to you Captain cheers to all the wonderful listeners out there
00:46:41
make sure you join us back here next week for a new case until then be good be kind and don't listen
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