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[Music] % [Music] welcome to True Crime garage wherever you are whatever you're doing thanks for
00:01:46
listening I'm your host Nick and with me as always is a man with a reminder that
00:01:50
the crime Aid acronym stands for Crime reduces innocence makes everyone angry I declare here is the captain yeah it's
00:02:00
good to be seen it's good to see you thanks for listening thanks for telling a [Music]
00:02:08
friend today we got a little leftover blueberry cobbler that's grandma fingers pastry sour beer with blueberries of
00:02:16
course this is another good one from Arcane a Works garage grade four out of five bottle caps and let's give some
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cheers to our friends right here first up a big cheers and thank you to Cheryl and Kimberly British columia and a big
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we like your jib to Victoria and Virginia Beach and here's uh of course we like your jib to Andrea white in St
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Mary's County Maryland and a big shout out to Jason in Savannah here's a cheers to constantinos in Squirrel Cove British
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Columbia and last but certainly not least we have a double cheers to Dan and Ruth in Republican City Nebraska thank
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a friend and for everything true crime garage check out our website truecar.com and that is enough of the business all
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right everybody gather around grab a chair grab a beer let's talk some true crime
00:03:31
[Music] where we left off from yesterday Captain is we have a young woman who was
00:03:46
abducted and managed to escape her attacker when she tells police and detectives about what happened to her
00:03:54
she is able to give them detailed information that lead them to a man named Robert C Hansen do you know what
00:04:03
the C is for it stands for oddly enough Christian is Robert Hansen's middle name
00:04:10
now Robert Hansen the general thought or what is known of this guy around Anchorage Alaska he's a family man a
00:04:19
businessman and he on the surface everything the investigating officers know about Robert Hansen is telling them
00:04:29
he wasn't their guy and when I say he wasn't their guy meaning he might have been involved in this incident regarding
00:04:36
Cindy pulson but he's probably not their guy for the other missing women and for the
00:04:44
bodies that are turning up Robert Hansen is a family man and a successful local businessman he owned a bakery and when
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the detective ran Robert Hansen through their computer system which we need to point this out it's very important to
00:05:00
point out that at this time in our timeline that this very moment the Anchorage police were in the process of
00:05:07
switching to a new system so when they type in his information into their computer system the system tells them
00:05:16
that Robert Hansen was clean he didn't have any police record at all and when the detectives started to ask
00:05:25
around what they end up learning is that Hansen was known around town as a an expert Hunter and in fact he held
00:05:34
several very impressive hunting records several world records for bow and arrow hunting in fact he held the world's top
00:05:42
Mark for taking down a doll sheep by bow and arrow this was in 1971 for killing a
00:05:49
Ram with a 42in horns he held the number two record for Caribou the number 12 ranked in the
00:05:59
world world for mountain goat the number 133 ranked doll sheep and the 34th ranked black bear I'm like 197 for
00:06:07
killing a big ass spider so this is a hunter's paradise and he's a very skilled Hunter well and all we can
00:06:16
assume is that their law enforcement system is not connecting them to other counties you especially during this time
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so basically what they're saying is he's clean once he moved to Alaska he's clean
00:06:32
and he's been a good upstanding citizen yeah the trouble the short of it Captain
00:06:37
will be that they were in the process of setting up their computer system it wasn't quite finished yet and so some of
00:06:45
the records had not made their way to that system well if they need a guy so they were not able to find them at that
00:06:52
very moment when they're looking this dude up whose vehicle and plane put him at the air field of where this Cindy
00:07:01
pulson escaped from so a quick background on Robert Hansen he was born in Iowa in
00:07:08
1939 his parents with whom he had a difficult relationship with were very strict and often made him work long
00:07:16
hours at the familyowned bakery during his childhood he was often bullied for his stutter and severe acne in school he
00:07:25
had no close friends after graduating high school in 195 7 he enlisted in the US Army Reserve where he became a
00:07:34
skilled Marksman serving one weekend a month and working at the bakery the rest of the time sometimes volunteering as an
00:07:42
assistant drill sergeant at the police academy in the town of Pocahontas it was in the Army Reserves one weekend that
00:07:50
Hansen lost his virginity to a working girl then in 1960 he fell in love with and married a local girl soon after
00:08:01
Hansen burned down the school bus garage of the local high school why well is there a reason did he
00:08:10
ever tell us did he ever say the reason so this is a really kind of long and weird story so he's working at the
00:08:19
bakery and now mind you by this time he's graduated high school he's in the Army
00:08:25
Reserve and he's an adult but he's a young adult he must be about uh 18ish 19 at this time at this point he's
00:08:34
officially in charge of making cinnabuns yeah well this is 1960 so he would be 21
00:08:40
he's actually a couple years older than what I thought he was he's look he's working for Mom and Dad at the bakery
00:08:46
and so when you think about like these local mom and pop shops you have a lot of teenagers that tend to work these
00:08:54
jobs right so he's working with a couple of kids that are still at the high school they're still active in the high
00:09:00
school 17ish 18ish and he is kind of because he's older than these guys they think of him
00:09:09
differently much differently than what his classmates thought of Robert when he was attending High School right his
00:09:15
classmates thought of him as a giant pimple well and at the bakery he's a bit of a somebody right he's the owner's son
00:09:22
he's an adult he's gone off to the Army Reserve he has life experiences he's a part-time drill sergeant at this Police
00:09:32
Academy yeah so now he's Mr pimple head so he kind of creates this little Clan amongst the young men that work there 16
00:09:44
17 18yar old boys you know they're all very rebellious want to raise a little hell he convinces them hey like we could
00:09:52
go out and do some stuff in this little town in Iowa where there's nothing to do
00:09:58
you know we could go out and shoot at things shoot at stop signs we can uh set things on fire there's ways that we can
00:10:06
have fun be rebellious and you know cause problems yeah jug off some goats so he convinces a couple of the guys
00:10:13
that work there at this bakery that you know what let's get together and we'll stake some places out and we can do this
00:10:20
or that or the other thing check out some goats a couple of the guys are smart enough to weasle their way out of
00:10:27
these arranged hang outs that are after hours you know they're smart enough to know hey if we end up doing something
00:10:33
bad it could be bad for me so I'm not going to put myself in this situation one night he and one of the boys that he
00:10:42
convinced to go with him they go to this garage that houses the buses that drive
00:10:48
the kids to school so this is school property and he decides Robert Hansen decides to set fire to the building now
00:10:57
there's some conflicting stories here obviously because we have two people that went there and they both have a
00:11:02
somewhat different story of what happened but after the building burnt down and the the vehicles inside were
00:11:10
practically destroyed as well I mean this is a big deal with a lot of damage a lot of a lot of cost involved in this
00:11:17
damage well because these other guys are teenagers well what do they do they they
00:11:23
run their mouth you know they're at parties or they're at school telling people hey I know who did this or I was
00:11:28
involved or I was almost involved and so they're kind of telling the story to these other people of what happened the
00:11:35
police and the school system really had no clue what happened other than they knew that it was not an accident that it
00:11:41
was set it was an arson well word starts to get around town that Robert Hansen was involved in this and the kid that
00:11:49
was with him on the night that they set the fire he becomes a witness and testifies against Robert Hansen so in
00:11:59
court speak Robert Hansen willfully and maliciously set fire to a building this occurred in Iowa in
00:12:05
1961 for this he gets a threeyear sentence in prison remember he's already married at this time his wife decides to
00:12:15
stick with him because she believes going off of what Robert's telling her and everyone else hey this group of kids
00:12:22
did it and they're trying to blame it on me and because somebody's willing to testify against me I'm taking the fall
00:12:29
these guys right his family believes him and his wife believes that he's innocent
00:12:36
but eventually he ends up confessing to her and to his mom and dad this is while he's serving out that
00:12:45
three-year prison sentence well and also you know the family business he's set to
00:12:50
make some dough well you asked why it's believed that Hansen burnt down the building in retaliation for his unhappy
00:12:57
high school years or or it was because he hated the school's superintendent who just so happened to be good friends with
00:13:05
his father Hansen's father and a regular customer at the family bakery either way
00:13:11
Hansen ends up serving 23 months in a Reformatory and then is released and then successfully completed
00:13:19
parole one year later so he got out early for this arson that he committed right in 1963 he remarried because what
00:13:30
happens is once he confesses to his wife and to his parents she believing him this whole time now she knows not only
00:13:39
did he set this fire not only is he an arsonist but he's managed to lie to me for over a year now mhm she don't want
00:13:47
anything to do with him those two split up so after he gets out 1963 he gets married again to a woman with whom he
00:13:55
had two children with a girl and a boy in 1967 the Hansen family of four moved to
00:14:04
Anchorage Alaska now an Anchorage Alaska this is reported that you know Hansen was well-liked by the people that knew
00:14:13
him and following in his Father's Footsteps Hansen opened a bakery and the business was a success now Hansen always
00:14:21
had a hobby of target shooting and was pretty skilled at this and he was always somewhat a casual Hunter back in Iowa
00:14:29
but Alaska is a Sportsman's Paradise mhm so Robert Hansen became an avid Hunter well just to be clear it's spelled h a n
00:14:38
s n not s o n like the famous multiple talented group Hansen either way it makes me think of
00:14:53
that song and we need to have their beer on the show called um hops a funny side
00:14:57
thing was I was at the grocery last week and that song came on and I don't care what anybody think that's not my cup of
00:15:04
tea that you know their style of music but that song regardless puts me in a fantastic mood every time I hear it that
00:15:12
was their style of music when they were younger there they've got they've gotten
00:15:16
much better if you haven't listened to new Hansen you you might be surprised I've been trying to talk about Hanson
00:15:22
for almost 500 episodes once in Alaska as we already pointed out he becomes an avid Hunter several hunting records
00:15:30
setting several hunting records which we already listed some of his ranked records but when the detective started
00:15:38
asking other detectives because keep in mind still at this point he's looking at
00:15:42
this guy going this guy's got a clean rrap sheet why all of a sudden out of the middle of nowhere this guy picks up
00:15:48
a a woman at gunpoint handcuffs her and does all these horrible things to her we
00:15:53
didn't go into detail and I didn't think it was necessary but it was a lengthy assault that he committed on this woman
00:16:01
according to what she's telling the detective so the detective's going yeah you don't just go from being a a nice
00:16:07
guy Family Man businessman it's a brutal rape it was yeah one day to being a monster the next so he starts asking the
00:16:17
other detectives like hey what I'm hearing about this guy and what I can see on paper isn't adding up there was a
00:16:23
hammer involved about Robert Hansen mhm and he at some point when he's talking to these
00:16:31
old skilled seasoned detectives that have been around for a long time he's starting to get less stories about
00:16:38
Hansen's hunting records and more stories about Hansen's police record right because we said that
00:16:47
for whatever reason those records hadn't made their way to their now computerized
00:16:51
system right one detective that he asked immediately referred to him as bad Bob Hansen AKA man who jerks off goats so
00:17:03
the records having not been fully transferred yet tell a very different story about this family man we and the
00:17:11
successful Baker We already mentioned this arson fire okay but then we have a story out of 1972 or
00:17:20
73 where Robert Hansen got into some bad trouble this was for two separate incidents one for attempting to rape a
00:17:31
housewife and he was also caught for raping a sex worker now it's a little convoluted but but things seem to fall
00:17:40
apart pretty quickly in both of these cases as they were trying to charge Robert Hansen with these two different
00:17:47
crimes from my understanding Captain they are very different crimes especially the housewife crime mhm
00:17:56
because this is a weird situation ation and this might be his if you want to use
00:18:01
some air quotes here his first sexual attack we do not know for sure but in this situation he stops off at This
00:18:09
Woman's house and he says that he needs to use her phone for whatever reason that he
00:18:16
that he gives her and I believe she allows him to use the phone and then he leaves without
00:18:23
incident he comes back to her place like 30 minutes later yeah why I think the ruse was that you know because his
00:18:30
head's a big pimple is that he convinced her that a bee stung his face and that's
00:18:37
why his face looked like that so he needed to call the hospital the using the phone ruse might be to make sure
00:18:44
that she's alone in the house yeah or that and so he comes back 30 minutes later knocks on the door she opens up
00:18:52
boom he's sticking a gun in her face and he's attempting to attack her and rape her whatever ends up going down again
00:19:00
those both those stories are a little convoluted but what we end up happening at the end the result turns out to be
00:19:08
that they dropped the rape charge and then reduced the attempted rape charge to an assault
00:19:15
charge which Robert Hansen pled guilty to so the short of it is somehow this all got reduced and now Robert Hansen
00:19:24
who has two incidents that point to him being a violent sexual offender he's now only serving 6 months
00:19:32
in prison that's because the system tends not to believe females so this ends up being a conviction for assault
00:19:38
with a dangerous weapon that's [ __ ] it was supposed to be a 5-year sentence so they didn't let him off easy on the
00:19:45
sentence itself but it was a 5-year sentence with a recommendation that Hansen received psychiatric treatment it
00:19:53
was after the 6 months after serving 6 months that he was transferred to a halfway house and and placed on a work
00:19:59
release program one year later Hansen was released on parole and parole was terminated after approximately three
00:20:08
years yeah again two two big crimes that he basically gets a slap on the wrist yeah well the victims are probably
00:20:16
traumatized for the rest of their freaking lives now remember this required him to receive psychiatric
00:20:24
treatment during his time in prison m and so during this psychiatric treatment the court ordered psychiatric
00:20:34
treatment what we learned is this was this was carried out by a Dr J Landon stated that Robert Hansen suffered from
00:20:43
a dissociative mental illness and suggested that Robert Hansen's criminal activity stemmed from that illness and
00:20:52
stated that Hansen's type of disorder was difficult to treat successfully but a subsequent letter from Dr Allan Parker
00:21:02
filed eight months later indicated that Hansen had made sufficient Improvement through therapy to Warrant his release
00:21:09
on parole unbelievable so you have one doctor saying this guy's got some issues that we find are going to be very
00:21:18
difficult to treat successfully and then another doctor saying at a later date he's been treated successfully yeah we
00:21:26
can send him out to parole I fixed him now there's one thing that is left out of that little statement and that that's
00:21:34
actually these are statements what I just read were found they're from Court um documents what wasn't in those court
00:21:41
documents is a statement that he made during the course of this psychiatric evaluation where he told the doctor that
00:21:51
during his teenage years and of course I think he's being a little deceptive here
00:21:56
but he says during his teen AG years he he often fantasized about doing all sorts of harmful things to girls and
00:22:04
women who rejected him yeah he seems stable that's not the end of his police sheet here
00:22:11
Captain because in 1977 Robert Hansen stole a chainsaw from a store in Anchorage for this Robert
00:22:19
Hansen entered a plea of guilty to Larson in a building he was sentenced to 5 years incarceration with the provision
00:22:27
that he be El ible for parole at the earliest possible date and that he received psychiatric therapy to case his
00:22:35
transition back into the community now hold on a second I just want to point this out assault with a deadly weapon 5
00:22:42
years stealing a chainsaw 5 years you can't even begin to compare those crimes correct and keep in mind had that
00:22:54
been had the the theft been his first charge you know the first time breaking the law he would have got a lot less for
00:23:03
that he probably would have got probation maybe one year Max but because he had had multiple
00:23:10
offenses and you know they they were aware of that they're going to give him the five years for that theft charge
00:23:18
they should do shock therapy on his ball the way that that I want to go through that that theft charge because we have
00:23:24
some detailed information on how that went down based on off of the court records so this took place while Hansen
00:23:31
was shopping at an Anchorage department store when a store security guard observed Robert acting suspiciously in
00:23:39
the store's Sporting Goods section he watched Robert place an old sales receipt on a chainsaw box and leave it
00:23:47
leave the store with it the guard apprehended Robert in the parking lot Robert Hansen described his thoughts
00:23:55
leading up to the shoplifting as follows quote I I looked at them and remembered
00:24:00
about 5 weeks previous my father and I had been cutting wood for our fireplace in his remarking three or four times how
00:24:08
much he would like to have one meaning a Saul my folks live in Oregon and were visiting us for 4 weeks he wanted a Saul
00:24:17
to use when he and my mother go camping along the coast I told my father that he
00:24:23
would be more than welcome to take mine but he refused I thought of this and all
00:24:28
the presents my parents had given me through the years and how wonderful it would be if I could give him a saw for
00:24:36
Christmas I also thought of course about my life at that time my wife and I had just bought this summer a new home and
00:24:45
put everything we've had saved for more than 9 years into that home I guess many
00:24:51
many thoughts went through my mind as I looked at the saws I wanted almost more than anything to please my father and
00:24:58
could just imagine the expression on his face on Christmas Day if I could give him that saw I walked around the store
00:25:07
some more and out the front door outside a man had just had a heart attack the police fire department and paramedics
00:25:15
were there to give him treatment my father is 69 years old and has had one heart attack and is very overweight
00:25:25
again I thought of the chainsaw and how pleased pleased he would be to receive it at Christmas I walked back into the
00:25:31
store again to the saws I thought there was a young man watching me but then he seemed to
00:25:38
disappear on the one box that I picked up there was a sales receipt I guess this is when I first really seriously
00:25:46
thought about taking the saw it seemed like nobody would know if I paid for the saw or not if they saw a sales receipt
00:25:54
on the box I took the saw and walked out the door and I was apprehended and arrested I know what I did was wrong and
00:26:03
I am very sorry for doing so Robert Hansen was 37 years old at the time of the offense and he had children he's married
00:26:13
his family has this Bakery he's successful he could afford to buy his father a saw I was going to say not
00:26:22
successful enough to buy a saw maybe not but the way I see it Captain is I'm seeing a guy who is manipulating
00:26:32
those around him when he's liar right when he's caught when he's innocent whatever he's a man who cheats and he's
00:26:42
a liar when he was caught for burning down the building he was able to convince his parents and his wife hey
00:26:50
I'm just the Fall Guy didn't really have anything to do with this convince him so
00:26:55
much so that once they put him behind bars they still believed him now he's standing in front of a judge at
00:27:02
37 giving him this sad story about his father's in bad health and what a miracle it would be if I could just give
00:27:10
my father this one gift on Christmas morning like he's Tiny Tim from Charles Dickens Christmas Carol or something
00:27:17
yeah it's just too bad you can't give your dad a new son that's right Christian so what we
00:27:25
see here I believe is a guy trying to tell this and sell this sad story to a judge the judge didn't believe it and
00:27:33
that's why he ends up getting the 5 [Music] years this show is sponsored by better
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app [Music] today we're back cheers and that's no lie we switched over to some umah hops mhm
00:30:09
tasty thank you Hansen Brothers this go ahead I was going to say you know they're they're kind of similar to us
00:30:17
because they have they have a garage themselves I believe their company's called threo garage or something or
00:30:24
three car garage or something like that sorry I was gonna laugh because I think most people own garages but what do I
00:30:32
know so well it's not a chainsaw right during this during this prison sentence and it ends up getting reduced and he
00:30:40
doesn't have to spend the full five years but what ends up happening here we did state that you know he has to
00:30:47
undergo another psychiatric evaluation during this time and this is when Robert Hansen is diagnosed with bipolar
00:30:54
disorder and of course we got to keep in mind this does not mean what we're going to
00:31:01
end up learning about him that's not typical of bipolar disorder and also given the time frame we're talking about
00:31:08
the 70s so a lot has changed and fortunately we know more about things like this now than we did back then at
00:31:18
the time he was prescribed lithium which I don't know if that's still something that they hand out I don't I don't know
00:31:25
much about it he wasn't required by law to actually take it but this will have this will be interesting
00:31:34
because we said that he owned a plane right he owned that plane that the victim led the officers to at the
00:31:41
Airfield right so he owns this plane but he was denied a license due to this medication that he was prescribed MH
00:31:51
again no one knows if he was actually taking the medication I couldn't find anybody to say either way way if he was
00:31:58
actually taking it but the way that he comes about buying this plane is pretty interesting because in the early
00:32:07
1980s Robert Hansen reported a burglary at his home he says that $133,000 worth of items were stolen from
00:32:17
his family's home it wasn't too long after this it's a lot of chainsaws that he purchased the
00:32:26
piper super Cub bush plane yeah this is a very very tiny plane so the thought is maybe he used this money that he
00:32:39
received from the insurance policy on the burglary to his home to buy the plane that's a big part of the story so
00:32:48
now we're going back to the investigation it is he responsible we have this sex worker that we found in
00:32:55
handcuffs a truck truck ever found her is he responsible for this he's saying no he's saying I don't know her I've
00:33:04
never seen her before and he he I believe he has an alibi as well yeah he has two Alibi so this makes it very
00:33:14
difficult for the police because if we're going to take this thing in front of a judge and say that this guy
00:33:20
abducted and and assaulted this woman but she escaped well if you put this thing in front of a judge or even a
00:33:29
jury of his peers you run the risk of going well it's this Working Girl's word against this successful Family Man
00:33:38
businessman who says he doesn't even know her never met her and he's got two other people that are considered to be
00:33:46
good upstanding citizens that are saying well he couldn't have done that because
00:33:50
he was with us that night the police are smarter than that though they know how things work and even though they can't
00:33:57
bring it in front of a judge yet they're going to still work on Robert Hansen and
00:34:03
so they're going to question him they want him to slip up they want him to give them information that they can work
00:34:08
with to build a case against him at the same time while they haven't officially filed any charges against him for the
00:34:17
attack for the rape and the Abduction of Cindy pson another body turns up this is
00:34:22
a couple months later and this is Paula golding's body turns up so so the police
00:34:28
are really concerned number one that they got this violent guy out that they believe are 100% to be guilty of what
00:34:36
Cindy pson said this guy did there's too much evidence to them leading them to him the problem is The
00:34:44
Alibi and Hansen doesn't really admit anything when they first interview him in fact he's a little bit rude when
00:34:53
detective Floy asked him about the attack and the sexual assault Hansen says to Floy you can't really rape a
00:35:03
prostitute can you Floy fires right back and says in this state you can so they're looking at this guy well I mean
00:35:11
that statement right there shows you what kind of respect he has for women well in particular the victim here in
00:35:17
this case right and maybe the other victims that you're seeing as well the missing women and the bodies that are
00:35:25
turning up so what we have here Captain is more bodies turning up a guy that's looking really good and you got a couple
00:35:33
detectives that are saying you know what look at this guy's past he was a violent
00:35:37
sexual offender before that's what he still is today we believe he abducted raped and was going to kill Cindy pson
00:35:47
but she was able to get away we think he's responsible for a lot of these other ones the other thing too that made
00:35:54
Robert Hansen interesting to them is that he owned a plane because at least one or two of the bodies were described
00:36:02
and we went through those articles described as inaccessible in an area that was inaccessible MH however if you
00:36:09
had a plane those areas were accessible right but then also think about it this way investigators gring okay yes we know
00:36:17
that she's a sex worker but parts of her story line up I went to this guy's house
00:36:22
then we went to a plane this is the guy mhm and he has those items now you have these two aliis so that's when the
00:36:33
investigators are going to go hey somebody's lying so we're going to we got to crack down on
00:36:38
somebody and like I said her story is making some sense so they're going to go after his Alibi well and keep in mind
00:36:45
too I mean yeah when they find her when police find her she was still handcuffed
00:36:51
she was still beat up yeah the scene to me is like the end of Texas chainsaw m here the first one where she runs out
00:36:59
onto the road and she's screaming and yelling and comes across that uh semi truck driver the problem though too then
00:37:07
becomes people that are familiar with cases such as this one well not such as this one but such as the Cindy pson case
00:37:15
of her Escape let's say there are plenty dozens hundreds thousands of cases where
00:37:22
a dancer or a working girl gets beat up by a boyfriend or a pimp and blames it on someone else that happens happens all
00:37:32
the time police don't suspect that here but that's where it could easily go to in the minds of people that are tasked
00:37:41
with the duty of determining Robert Hansen's guilty or not right guilt or not and you have these other people that
00:37:49
are saying well he couldn't have because he was with us that night we'll get into
00:37:52
that in a minute but what we're going to have here is very interesting because the police decide well let's build a
00:38:00
case against Robert Hansen he's our guy if we all think that he's our guy let's surveillance him let's watch him let's
00:38:07
build a case against him well what do we need to do let's forget about the the rape and the abduction as far as Cindy
00:38:14
Paulson's concerned we can always Circle back to that let's try to connect him to
00:38:19
the murdered victims or to any of the missing women so let's build our case against him that way one thing that they
00:38:27
do is they reach out to the FBI in quanico and they actually didn't think that they were going to have any good
00:38:33
result with this they just made a simple phone call and said hey this is what's happening here in Anchorage we got these
00:38:39
women missing turning up dead this is how they're found oh and by the way we got a guy that we like for this Roy
00:38:45
Hazelwood who we referenced in the trailer was the man that picked up the phone the FBI agent that picked up the
00:38:51
phone mhm he tells the officer the detective he says don't tell me anymore I I don't want to know who your guy is
00:38:58
tell me about the victims and how you're finding them Roy Hazelwood starts to shoot off back and he says I bet you
00:39:04
your guy is like this and I bet you he does this and he's about this age and this is where he lives he's probably
00:39:10
married he's probably successful he's probably known in the community mhm he's telling them everything that they
00:39:17
already know to be true about Robert Hansen Hazelwood says you know what take this to the local
00:39:25
FBI get get them to sign off on it and we will send you some agents okay so this next part is from the Criminal
00:39:32
Minds fandom page which is an odd and unexpected source for this week's case but turned out to be a very good source
00:39:39
the information is real good and laid out nicely so I was happy to find it there's a paragraph that says the
00:39:45
Alaskan investigators began looking into Hansen again and contacted the FBI who sent in their profilers this was
00:39:56
according to the site here Captain says John Douglas but some sources say it was
00:40:01
Roy Hazelwood they profiled that the killer would have low self-esteem a history of rejection by women and be an
00:40:09
experienced Hunter they also correctly predicted that he would take souvenirs from his
00:40:15
victims and would have a stutter so let's examine this for a bit and clear up any of the Douglas versus Hazelwood
00:40:22
bit as well for the record the phandom page is citing sources so they don't have anything
00:40:29
wrong they are just simply citing other sources right so they included both which I think is very responsible they
00:40:36
say it was either Roy Hazelwood or John Douglas that helped the Anchorage police
00:40:41
and the state police Alaska State Police with this case yeah I agree it's good that they put both of those in there so
00:40:47
first off anyone that has listened to the show for a long period of time know that John Douglas and Roy Hazelwood are
00:40:54
the two FBI agents that we have have talked about more than any others by far Hazelwood was my nickname in high school
00:41:02
we have referenced quoted and explored their Works countless times they are both ogs when it comes to the FBI's BSU
00:41:10
they work together and relied on each other's work at time and expertise plenty as have we I can see why this
00:41:20
part is confusing and the short answer is because they both worked on the case so it makes sense that you would see
00:41:26
Douglas's name and or Roy hazelwood's name the other truth about the FBI's profile is that in this
00:41:34
case the FBI was only brought in after local law enforcement already identified who they believe to be the killer which
00:41:43
is pretty rare right the in this case the Alaska State Troopers and the Anchorage police pretty much knew or had
00:41:52
that gut feeling that Robert Hansen was the one that was killing women mhm again
00:41:57
in fact they were calling him bad Bob Hansen but they needed some experts to help them secure a search warrant for
00:42:06
bad Bob this would be to search his home his plane and his three vehicles that he
00:42:12
owned at the time so FBI agents John Douglas and Jim horn were sent from Quantico out to Anchorage to assist the
00:42:22
Alaskan authorities attempted on more than one occasion to get a search warrant for Hansen but needed more
00:42:29
ammunition as the da wanted to make sure that the courts wouldn't find that the police were going on a fishing
00:42:37
Expedition right saying hey we think this guy's killed all these people we're just going to go in and toss his house
00:42:44
and search the plane and hope to find stuff that lead us to building a case against him right so John Douglas and
00:42:52
Jim horn shipped out to Anchorage brought into put together a psychological and behavioral profile of
00:43:01
the offender well one of the things I think about Hansen that's such a a t-ball shot
00:43:07
you know put the ball on the tea and headit it out of the park is we we know that he's a hunter and that he collects
00:43:15
trophies and he collects uh parts of the animals as trophies so if he's killing multiple women why wouldn't he keep
00:43:24
souvenirs or trophies of those kills as well well and really what they wanted was to say you know
00:43:32
what we brought in these outside experts who on their own put together their own
00:43:37
psychological profile of who the offender would be what his behaviors would be personality would be and then
00:43:46
we can take that and say you know what they created this independently we're telling the judge hey look this match is
00:43:51
Robert Hansen this match is the guy that we've been trying to go after and we can't can't get a search warrant for and
00:43:58
so once they have that they also want something else from the FBI these guys have worked these type of Serial cases
00:44:05
so these guys can put together a list for them of very specific items that they need to include on their search War
00:44:14
when they go looking for items at his home so in general that was really the main job of John Douglas and Jim horn to
00:44:23
put together the search warrant information items they were searching for and the profile on the suspect that
00:44:30
would commit these types of crimes MH this all works and the Da goes for the search warrant judge grants the searches
00:44:39
they're going to go hunting let's say at Robert Hansen's house now where Roy Hazelwood comes back
00:44:49
into play Not only did he answer the call and encourage the local authorities to pursue the FBI to get involved was at
00:44:57
some point during this case John Douglas he's hospitalized and this is for quite some
00:45:04
time and it took place during the Robert Hansen case Douglas nearly died from stress and you text me a couple weeks
00:45:13
ago and said hey I'm seeing stuff saying that they're working on season 3 of mine
00:45:18
hunter look at the time frame that we're talking about here yeah this would line
00:45:23
up with where they kind of left off on season two they might start working the Hansen case in season 3 and we'll see
00:45:32
Douglas's character in the hospital at some point yeah again so Douglas is nearly down for the count so Roy
00:45:40
Hazelwood is sent in to cover for Douglas and what he's going to do is he's going to prepare the detectives
00:45:47
that will be interviewing Robert Hansen after his arrest he's going to be telling them hey these are the tips and
00:45:54
things that you can use to try to get a confession from him or if you can't get him to willingly
00:46:01
confess here's some tactics that you can use to get him to slip up and give you information that you need unwillingly
00:46:11
Captain before we move on too far while we're passing around some credit we need
00:46:15
to make sure that we give a big batch of it to Alaska State Trooper detective Glenn Floy and Anchorage PD officer Greg
00:46:23
Baker both Floy and Baker were extremely determinated to catch whoever it was that was killing these women and burying
00:46:32
them out in the woods determined these were the guys that suspected Hansen was the right guy when others were
00:46:38
dismissing him and they didn't treat the victims alive or otherwise any differently than
00:46:45
they would any other citizen of the community here's what they wanted to do Captain and this is genius because
00:46:52
they're like you know what if we can find items that are rape and assault victim says she saw in this man's house
00:47:02
the gun that he used on her and other items that he used on her that's going to be enough for us to really take this
00:47:10
to the next level the next level is put this case in front of a grand jury that's where those false aliis will come
00:47:17
back into play and we'll Circle back to that but the other thing that they wanted to do detectives aren't stupid
00:47:23
they see that this guy he filed this insurance claim for $113,000 and then in pretty quick turnaround buys an
00:47:32
airplane uh okay well when you submit your report to the insurance company you have to submit an itemized
00:47:43
list of everything that was stolen from your property you now have an abduction and
00:47:48
rape victim who says I was in the basement and she's describing items that he had put on that list of things that
00:47:55
were stolen from his home so now you have an insurance fraud charge that you can bring against this
00:48:02
guy so when you have trouble convincing a room of people that this man is a serial killer
00:48:11
who's killed dozens of women MH what what is the best thing for you time time will be on your side but
00:48:20
you're afraid he will be killing other women in the process or could be destroying evidence in the process so if
00:48:28
we can lock this dude up on anything the insurance fraud charge the rape charge the abduction charge let's get him on
00:48:36
that put his ass Behind Bars and build a case against him while we have him locked
00:48:42
up sure enough they get into his home they start seeing things that he says were stolen from his house that he
00:48:50
received insurance money for yeah I mean this guy is a criminal on multiple levels
00:48:56
he doesn't really care for anybody's concern other than his to make sure that he's getting ahead the thing they really
00:49:03
wanted to find was that 223 Ruger mini4 which is the gun that they found the shell casings near a couple of the
00:49:13
buried bodies so they were hoping to find that in this search they would eventually
00:49:19
find it and the other thing that comes about is now they are taking this case to a grand jury so they can go back to
00:49:27
those two guys who say that I was with Robert Hansen that night he couldn't have abducted and raped this woman and
00:49:34
they can say you know what you told us that story now here's your subpoena you go tell it to a grand jury and if later
00:49:43
we can prove that you are lying you will be doing time yourself well how quickly
00:49:49
they changed their stories neither of those men were with Robert Hansen that night Liars
00:49:56
pants on Fires I want to say that they got a couple search warrants and looked through things and didn't find anything
00:50:03
and then they went got a couple different search warrants and went back because they didn't find anything like
00:50:10
just like out in the open I think they were coming up empty most of the time and then they found like some kind of
00:50:18
hidden area in his addict or something like that well you're you're exactly right um now but it's a little conf
00:50:25
confusing because think about the search warrants in general they are seeking items that would be involved in
00:50:31
different charges related to different incidents things that took place at different times right so some of the
00:50:38
items they are finding out in the open these would be the items that he claimed were stolen during the burglary the
00:50:44
house burglary right because he's he's very fond of his trophies his hunting trophies and a lot of the valuable items
00:50:52
that he says were stolen from his home are in fact those hunting trophies that he's got mounted to the walls so not
00:50:59
only were they out in the open they were on display and he was proud to show them
00:51:03
off so they find those right away but all that's going to get you in court is a charge for this insurance fraud they
00:51:10
want charges of murder rape and abduction and you're exactly right they're not finding the guns and the
00:51:17
torture weapons or dirty shovels or anything like that out in the open that would lead them to be able to bring
00:51:24
forward those types of charges what they end up finding and it's a weird situation because and it's really great
00:51:31
that Roy Hazelwood was able to kind of school these detectives and and prosecutors in how they should be
00:51:40
communicating and talking and interviewing Robert Hansen because what they do is they bring him in for
00:51:49
interrogation at the same time that they're searching his home his property in his Vehicles well it's a great time
00:51:57
to bring him in because he would know that they're searching so he's going to be constantly worried the whole time
00:52:03
that they're asking him questions what are they finding well and the stutter and I don't want people to email me I
00:52:09
don't know the science of any of this but in this situation what they're going with is that the man's stutter seems to
00:52:17
be directly related to how nervous he gets how out of control a situation gets for him and when he's uncomfortable when
00:52:25
when he's nervous when the stakes are high he stutters he can't control himself he
00:52:32
reacts and so what they wanted is just what you said Captain let him know we're searching his properties let's bring him
00:52:39
in let's question him at the same time while the the heat is already cranked up to 10 and what they get are some
00:52:46
information because as you said they're turning up empty-handed with the items that would lead them to the more severe
00:52:53
charges the the charges that they're really they really care about they don't really care about the insurance fraud
00:52:59
other than to jam them up long enough to bring these other charges they end up finding through some of his own words
00:53:05
Robert Hansen's own words that he has a false wall at some at some place in his home it might have been the basement
00:53:12
might have been the attic might have been both and inside of that false wall he had hid things like guns that he had
00:53:18
used and things that he had used to torture some of these women they also found an AV
00:53:26
map which was really interesting because it had uh several things marked on this
00:53:33
map and I believe it was about 21 or 20 or so things marked on the map having found this they already know where some
00:53:42
of the bodies were recovered the bodies that they've recovered are matching up with some of
00:53:48
the marks that Robert Hansen made on this map they know Robert Hansen made these
00:53:54
marks on this map because he said he told him where to find the map and where to find these other items they're in the
00:53:59
false walls the gun they were looking for is this uh 223 Ruger mini4 that they know was used to kill a
00:54:09
couple of the victims they didn't find it in any of the properties that they were searching because it was in his
00:54:15
boat which was in fact on his property but they didn't have a search warrant for the boat this so that's where they
00:54:23
had to go back and get a search warrant for the boat they couldn't afford to anything being found in the boat to be
00:54:29
thrown out of court at a later date so this [ __ ] turd had a plane and a boat yeah but keep in mind it it is
00:54:40
Alaska so like plane ownership is a lot more common there and these smaller planes and there small it was a small
00:54:47
boat it wasn't like a yacht no he still a [ __ ] Turd In The End when they find the gun
00:54:57
and run ballistics they are able to come back and tell him you know what this gun
00:55:02
you're which was his prized gun which oddly enough the profilers said he would have this very close relationship with
00:55:11
the the murder weapon and he would value this over many many other items in his possession he would treat it with a
00:55:20
certain high intensity level of care when they said to him look we've we've connected the bullets from your
00:55:29
favorite gun to four of the victims that's when they get a confession from Robert
00:55:36
Hansen and it's a pretty long one but I've reviewed it and the short of it is basically he's saying that women that
00:55:46
work the streets women that work as dancers they're not good people and so it didn't really matter that he killed
00:55:56
them that he should be allowed to do whatever he wanted with them because they're not the same as you
00:56:05
and I or everybody else so they don't have the same rights as he does oddly enough he doesn't
00:56:13
consider himself to be a bad person or didn't at the time of his arrest which is completely bizarre giving his police
00:56:21
record and what he was out doing although years yeah but it was fixed with therapy and he would end up
00:56:29
pleading guilty to this in the court of law and he ended up receiving a life sentence plus
00:56:38
461 years so he was never going to get out and then part of that plea bargain now
00:56:48
Alaska does not have the death penalty so that was never going to be an issue but part of that plea bargain was he was
00:56:55
going to have to tell the officers where they could expect to find the remaining
00:57:00
victims right but but he would never be charged with those crimes he could only be charged with the four murders correct
00:57:08
that that he was confessing to he was charged with four murders convicted of four murders one of
00:57:13
them is clut Annie who's never been identified he doesn't know who she was or claims that he doesn't know who she
00:57:21
was and he was also charged and convicted of the insurance fraud as well as the abduction and assault on Cindy
00:57:30
Paulson so that's how you get a life sentence plus 461 years he confessed to 17 murders overall they recovered all of
00:57:39
those bodies there still are some bodies that have not been recovered uh and I'm getting a little
00:57:45
confused I shouldn't say they recovered all of the 17 police believe that he's probably responsible for 21 or more
00:57:53
murders and they think that the reason why he wouldn't confess to some of the other murders goes back to his original
00:58:00
confession that some of the women weren't working at a show bar or weren't working the streets right and therefore
00:58:07
for whatever reason we've gone through this time and time again with these serial killers their confessions don't
00:58:13
always make a lot of sense sometimes they make up higher numbers sometimes they really downplay it yeah and I'd
00:58:19
also say possibly in this case there would be victims closer to the age of maybe 12
00:58:26
to 14 and a lot of times you'll see serial killers not willing to admit that they they killed a child yeah the
00:58:35
missing women that they have that are still outstanding to this date are of the age range of the the previous
00:58:42
victims that we've already discussed part of that you wonder if they were just left out in the open or tossed into
00:58:49
the river which is a little bizarre that he didn't use that time and time again these other crimes he was not willing to
00:58:57
confess to those for whatever reason detectives were also very concerned and remember we saw this in the BTK the BTK
00:59:05
case as well how can you have this seral killer operating for years and years and
00:59:10
years living with his family and nobody else knows about what he's out doing and so one thing that they had to
00:59:18
do was Interview his wife extensively not telling her what they're going to charge him with because they
00:59:25
wanted to be able to determine if she had any clue of what old bad Bob Hansen was up
00:59:32
to what they discovered is that she traveled a lot she was a good person she had no clue of what he was doing he was
00:59:41
doing almost all of this while she was away on travel with the kids in fact in a lot of these murders he called them
00:59:48
his summertime projects which she would be out traveling for the summer I believe she
00:59:56
was a teacher or something and had the Summers off but she also even tried to help the
01:00:03
police once she was aware of what he was guilty of once he confessed she even helped them try to locate some more of
01:00:12
his items that he may have concealed somewhere or buried on their properties so she was just another victim in this
01:00:20
long story of Robert Hansen but this guy again he's you know he's Beyond a monster cuz Not only was he raping these
01:00:29
individuals to take it individual out and give them a head start here I'll give you a knife or maybe I don't give
01:00:36
you a knife maybe I Leave You handcuffed maybe I take the handcuffs off but I'm going to hunt you down like an
01:00:44
animal that's what they really should have done they should have got him to confess and then they
01:00:51
should have said hey by the way we're going to take you out to the field where where we found a body and they should
01:00:57
have just said hey uh Robert we're going to give you a little head start and uh we'll be coming for you well and that's
01:01:04
one thing that they were able to determine Captain was in the earlier murders he was killing the victims
01:01:09
elsewhere and then bringing them to the burial sites in the later murders he's all wrapped up and in love with this
01:01:18
hunting it's like well why not combine the couple things that I love the most right ABD this woman a lot of the
01:01:26
physical attacks the the rapes and such sexual assaults took place at his home and then the the ruse of oh I take these
01:01:36
women to a cabin out in the middle of nowhere that's he's just putting them in a plane so he can land that thing and go
01:01:41
hunt them out in the wilderness and then bury them where he kills them and I want
01:01:47
to be very clear about this we told this story in the trailer about General zarof
01:01:52
who if you were able to El lud him for 3 days and get away from him and his hunting dogs that he would set you free
01:02:00
and he gave them a knife and some food and a three-hour Head Start yeah that's not the case with Robert Hansen no he's
01:02:08
he's hunting women who he lets out of his airplane who in many cases are naked still handcuffed and sometimes even
01:02:18
blindfolded so it's not like this guy was giving them any type of fair situation at all to to get free he was
01:02:28
setting up a system and stacking the deck against them so he could hunt them for fun with no worry that they were
01:02:35
going to get away yeah sickening exactly and I think some of the words from The Trial really sum up Hansen the best and
01:02:45
this is from the closing statements before he was sentenced to that lengthy prison sentence and this is coming from
01:02:54
the Prosecuting attorneys and they're talking about the victims and Robert Hansen and they say 17 may not be the
01:03:02
end of it meaning there could be more victims we feel from what we've learned that there might be more bodies out
01:03:08
there and then the prosecutor points to Robert Hansen and says before you sits a
01:03:13
monster an extreme aberration of a human being who has walked amongst us not even his wife of 20 years had any
01:03:23
inkling of his dark evil side his crimes numb the Mind Alaska serial killer Robert Hansen who killed as many as 21
01:03:34
women maybe more died around 1:30 a.m. August 21st 2014 at an Anchorage Hospital the cause of death appeared to
01:03:45
be that he died of natural causes Glenn Floy a retired Alaska State Trooper who was instrumental in Hansen's 1984
01:03:56
capture said quote on this day we should only remember his many victims and all of their families and my heart goes out
01:04:04
to all of them as far as Hansen is concerned this world is better without [Music]
01:04:23
him [Music] thank you so much friends for joining us here again in the garage I'm getting right up in your ear
01:04:33
if you need more True Crime garage check out our other show our bonus show called
01:04:38
off the Record if you're nasty and that's on Stitcher premium Colonel do we have any recommended reading this week
01:04:45
this week we are recommending death on Ocean Boulevard inside the Coronado Mansion Case by Caitlyn Rother this is
01:04:53
perfect timing as well to recommend this book because this case is coming up on the 10-year marker now this
01:04:59
unfortunately is one of those True Crime Mysteries was it murder or was it suicide Rebecca zah House's family
01:05:06
believes she was murdered as investigators found conflicting evidence of Foul Play in this book author Caitlyn
01:05:13
Rother explores all the theories that point to Foul Play and brings out some new details about the case check out
01:05:21
death on Ocean Boulevard find that title and many many more on our recommended page at true Crim garage.com again
01:05:28
friends we can't thank you enough for joining us here every week in the garage and until next week be good be kind and
01:05:36
don't let [Music] it [Music] you can start your day off right when you find a professional on Angie to get
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