00:00:17
(tense music) - He has absolutely no idea why the police
want to talk to him. - [Vivica] Observing the signs.
00:00:28
- I think when he is brought
into the interview room he's quite a cocky character.
00:00:31
The fact there's been a sudden shift in emotion. These are all leakage signals
and red flags.
00:00:36
- [Vivica] Detecting
changing stories. - Marvin, just spinning
outta control here.
00:00:49
- [Vivica] Spotting
when to hold back. - He describes it almost as
a scene from a Shakespeare play.
00:00:57
- He wants one last kiss
before she reaches out and touches the face of God. - [Vivica] And when to close in.
00:01:06
- Marvin, stop.
I know you're lying. - I'm Vivica A. Fox. And I'm about to take you
on a journey
00:01:19
to uncover the secrets
of the interrogation room. As an award-winning actress,
I know how to play a part
00:01:26
and convince audiences
I'm someone else. In the interrogation room, a suspect must play
the role of their life
00:01:33
to convince detectives
of their innocence if they wanna make it out
of that room with their freedom.
00:01:39
- [Darren] The game's up. They never ask a question they don't have the answer for.
00:01:43
(tense music) - [Vivica] Wednesday,
January 24th, 2018. In Jacksonville, Florida,
00:01:58
46-year-old Marvin Williams
has been arrested. Hungry and agitated, he complains about missing lunch
00:02:04
and demands to know
why he's been brought in. - [Vivica] Two days earlier, Jacksonville police
received a call
00:02:23
asking for a welfare check
to be carried out on 61-year-old
local hairdresser,
00:02:28
Cassandra Valentin. (sirens wail) - A check of the residence
revealed that the victim,
00:02:33
Cassandra Valentin, Black, female,
was deceased inside. - [Vivica] Police arrived
at a gruesome scene
00:02:40
and found Cassandra dead, lying in a pool of blood. She had a broken knife
in her neck.
00:02:47
Cassandra shared her home with fiancé Marvin Williams. (somber music) - Marvin can't be located.
00:03:07
The police assume
he's gone into hiding and might be responsible
for the murder.
00:03:11
A warrant is issued
for his arrest and an online appeal is made for information
of his whereabouts.
00:03:18
But two days later, he's found,
out in the open, at work, not even hiding at all.
00:03:25
But the police
get a further surprise. When they approach, Marvin tries to run away.
00:03:31
Marvin's behavior is confusing. Is he guilty or innocent? Hopefully time in the
interrogation room will tell.
00:03:45
(door unlocking)
(door squeaks) - So, Williams
walks into a police station. He gets taken into
an interview room.
00:04:00
He has absolutely no idea why the police
want to talk to him. No idea whatso...
He doesn't know why he's there.
00:04:25
- [Ciolino] So you always want
to establish the fact that they have at least
a primary education,
00:04:29
that they could
read and write basic English, and that they
understand everything
00:04:34
that's being said to them
right now, in the moment. - [Vivica] With the suspect
in the interrogation room,
00:05:01
this investigation begins as most murder investigations
routinely begin: with the focus
on the suspect's background,
00:05:09
his close friends and family. - [Maleary] Officers
will always talk to the next of kin,
the nearest relative.
00:05:16
Those people that have got
vital information to establish why
there has been a murder,
00:05:23
why there's been a homicide. They could hold
the key to a case, especially if there has been
history of domestic violence.
00:05:32
- [Vivica] Marvin does
have a violent past. He spent time in prison
for armed robbery
00:05:38
and domestic battery
against Cassandra, his on/off girlfriend
for the past five years.
00:05:44
However, in more recent times, Cassandra was convinced
that he'd changed, and had agreed to marry him.
00:05:51
- You don't wanna focus
too quickly on a family member or a significant other, okay?
00:05:55
Because occasionally
there'd be somebody else who had motive to kill them that you're unaware of
at that moment.
00:06:13
- [Ciolino] Everybody in
the world's looking for Marvin. Everyone in town
knows why he's there.
00:06:17
But Marvin apparently
doesn't know why he is there. He's like, I have no idea. What's the problem?
00:06:23
- [Vivica] But if Marvin
really had no idea why the police
were looking for him,
00:06:26
why did he run? - [Ciolino] From law enforcement
perspective, if you're innocent, you're not
running away from the police.
00:06:45
From Marvin's perspective is,
"Hey, I'm on probation. "I don't want to get
grabbed by any cops."
00:06:50
So we call that one a draw. You have a girlfriend here? - [Darren] I think when he's
brought into the interview room,
00:07:07
he's quite a cocky character. He's no stranger to
being arrested or prison. So, just in terms of
his posture,
00:07:14
the way he was sat, he stretches himself out
on the chair as best he can. And again, that's quite
an arrogant way to behave
00:07:21
in a police station when you're suspected
of a crime. So I think right
from the outset,
00:07:25
you've got somebody that's kind of not gonna be
really compliant with the officers.
00:07:44
- The police believe
Marvin Williams could be responsible for the
brutal murder of his fiancée,
00:07:49
Cassandra Valentin. But Williams hasn't seen her
for three days, and appears to be unaware
she is dead.
00:07:56
Could police have the wrong man? - [Ciolino]
You want to be careful before you marry yourself to
00:08:04
that person as the subject
of your investigation. 'Cause you could be wrong,
and we see a lot of
wrongful convictions
00:08:09
in the United States. - [Vivica] Coming up, Marvin
and Cassandra's relationship
00:08:16
is put under the microscope. - I think Williams fits into the stereotype
of a typical abuser.
00:08:23
- [Vivica] And Detective Zehler
drops a bombshell. - January, 2018. In Jacksonville, Florida,
detectives are investigating
00:08:41
the brutal murder
of Cassandra Valentin. Marvin Williams, her fiancé, is in police custody,
00:08:49
but seems completely unaware
that Cassandra is dead. - [Vivica] Why would Marvin
storm out
00:09:38
over an argument about football, and disappear for a week or two? What does this say about his
relationship with his fiancée?
00:09:47
- [Lee] I believe that there
was a mutual attraction between Cassandra and Williams,
00:09:53
because if you
look at the age differential, he was 15 years younger
than her.
00:09:57
Batterers that are younger men pursue much older women because, believe it or not,
00:10:03
some are looking for
a mother figure, they're looking for
the lost mother in their lives.
00:10:09
They're looking for a woman
who will protect and care and nurture for them. He's someone who just
came outta prison.
00:10:15
Most inmates seeking re-entry do not have the resources
for housing, food, or shelter.
00:10:21
Well, who does? Someone who's established, someone who has a place to live,
someone who has a job,
00:10:26
and someone who can
put bread on the table. Even if they're
15 years older than you,
00:10:31
what a perfect setup. And she, in turn, may have had a, I guess, a psychological dependency
on him.
00:10:40
I think he made her
feel young again. She was 61,
and she probably felt alive.
00:10:47
You know, the expression 'how Stella
got her groove back'. It could have been something
along those lines.
00:10:54
So they kind of mutually
fed into each other's needs at that time. - [Vivica] So far, Marvin
doesn't seem cagey
00:11:01
or careful with his answers. If he was guilty of
Cassandra's murder, would he be so quick to reveal
00:11:08
that they'd had an argument
and he stormed off. But if he knows
nothing of her fate,
00:11:12
why isn't he more curious about Detective Zehler's
line of questioning? - [Maleary] The officer's asking
lots of questions
00:11:20
around the relationship
between him and Cassandra. At no point does Williams say,
00:11:26
"Why are you asking me these
questions about Cassandra? "What's the problem?
What's the issue?
00:11:30
"Why am I here? What's it
got to do with Cassandra? "What's got to do with me?"
00:11:34
He never inquires about
the welfare of this person that he proclaims to love. - [Lee] It also reveals
something about his character
00:11:42
as one of indifference,
as one who doesn't care, as one who's not concerned
about his intimate partner
00:11:50
whom he purportedly had not
seen since Sunday evening. There's something wrong with
that picture right away.
00:11:56
- [Vivica] The police
play along for now, but they suspect the worst. They know Marvin
has had a long history
00:12:04
of violent
and manipulative behavior. some of it directed
towards Cassandra. - [Lee] I think Williams
fits into the stereotype
00:12:13
of a typical abuser in that, number one, he exhibits
a lot of the dimensions that we find on
the power and control wheel.
00:12:22
The power-control field
talks about things like using
male privilege. It talks about
things like isolation.
00:12:28
It talks about sexual abuse. It talks about physical abuse. But in terms of isolation,
00:12:34
let's take that one concept,
for instance, how she was isolated from
her parents and her family
00:12:40
and her friends because of him. The record suggests that some
of her sisters and cousins
00:12:47
would not go near her
when he was around because they sensed
something about him
00:12:52
that just wasn't right. I think one of
her family members described him as pure evil.
00:13:12
- [Lee] So because of how
violence works in relationships, if the offender or the batterer
can isolate his victim,
00:13:19
that's the perfect segue
towards power and control and doing
what he wants to do to her
00:13:23
whenever he wants to. - [Vivica] Detective Zehler
decides to narrow in on Marvin's argument
with Cassandra
00:13:30
and how it might have escalated. - [Vivica] Marvin has
suddenly changed his story.
00:14:00
The argument
wasn't about football. It was about his past violence
towards Cassandra,
00:14:06
something for which
he had served time in prison in the past. - He objects to her
"catching a major attitude".
00:14:14
Well, to me that suggests that he wants to exert control
over what she can talk about
00:14:20
and when she can talk about it. In other words,
she's not free to discuss even her own
prior victimization,
00:14:26
because we're over that. That's done and over with, so let's move on
with our relationship.
00:14:31
So that too is another measure of his exerting
power and control. - [Vivica] Detective Zehler
now questions his movements
00:14:39
after the argument and his story
that he stormed out. The plan is to trap
him in another lie.
00:16:08
- One of the tactics
used by Williams was that his phone
was dropped in water. I would suggest that
that's a deliberate act.
00:16:17
And he states that he was
trying to dry it out with rice. And I think there was a hope
00:16:23
that the police
wouldn't find the evidence contained within that
mobile phone.
00:16:29
- [Vivica] But if Marvin
is trying to hide something that's on his phone,
it's too late.
00:16:33
Unknown to Marvin, the police have already
recovered all of its data from the cell phone company.
00:16:40
- The purpose of
a good interrogation is to get a confession. You want the person to admit
involvement in the crime.
00:16:49
By the time you get
to an interrogation, generally, a lot of work has
gone into an investigation
00:16:56
and you are very sure of who your perpetrator
or your suspect is. - [Vivica] Feeling confident
00:17:03
because of the information
he's gotten from Marvin's phone and what he knows about
Marvin's criminal background,
00:17:09
Detective Zehler decides to
ramp up the pressure. - So quite early on, he outrightly tells Williams
00:17:30
that they never ask a question
they don't have the answer for. This is quite risky,
00:17:34
because no matter what we think about that suspect
that we're interviewing, there still needs to be
the presence of rapport,
00:17:41
because a suspect's
constantly thinking, "Well, are they my friend?
Will they help me?
00:17:45
"Can I plea-bargain?" A lot of the time,
suspects can just clam up. - [Vivica] Marvin Williams
is lying about his whereabouts
00:18:06
the night his fiancée
Cassandra was murdered. But this doesn't prove
he's the killer.
00:18:13
- Marvin's an
experienced convict. He's been known, a couple times,
for serious crimes.
00:18:18
He's done penitentiary time,
in Florida, which is never a pleasant place. And if Marvin
starts thinking about
00:18:25
how badly he does not want to
go back to prison, he's gonna say the magic word,
lawyer,
00:18:30
and that'll be the end
of the interview. (suspenseful music) - [Vivica] With
his prime suspect
00:18:37
looking angry and withdrawn, will Detective Zehler
uncover the truth, or has he pushed too hard
too soon?
00:18:48
(suspenseful music) - [Vivica] Coming up, loose lips sink ships. - [Vivica] And Marvin
gets creative.
00:19:00
- Describes it almost as
a scene from a Shakespeare play. [Vivica] In Jacksonville,
Florida,
00:19:15
convicted felon Marvin Williams has been brought in
for questioning about the brutal murder
of his 61-year-old fiancée,
00:19:21
Cassandra Valentin. So far, he has
maintained his innocence, claiming that on
the night in question
00:19:28
they had a heated argument, before he stormed out
and headed downtown. But the Jacksonville police
are only just getting started.
00:19:37
Detective Zehler knows much
more than his suspect, Marvin Williams, realizes. His plan is to reveal this
step by step,
00:19:46
each time, blindsiding Williams and weakening his resolve. He now hits Marvin
with new information.
00:19:55
Both of his trusted sisters have been helping the police
with the investigation.
00:20:01
- The detectives went to visit
the sister of Williams. I believe that
they went to another state.
00:20:08
It's important
that they see her, because, from the family, it would appear that she was
the closest relative to Williams
00:20:16
and would've understood
what his movements were, how he'd be behaving, and what the authorities
would need to do
00:20:22
in order to
bring him to justice. - [Vivica] For Marvin,
this is devastating news.
00:20:47
On the night of
January 22nd, 2018, he'd left phone messages
and a text for his sisters
00:20:55
saying he was going
to kill himself because he'd murdered Cassandra, and wasn't
going back to prison.
00:21:02
Williams had destroyed his phone to try and prevent police
from seeing those messages.
00:21:07
But his sisters
had given him up. - So the detective now
is shifting into high gear
00:22:01
in the confrontation phase
of the interrogation, right? Marvin, Marvin stop. I know you're lying.
00:22:07
I got the phone.
I got the text messages. I've got the voicemail. I've got the cell tower
location records.
00:22:13
I've got it all, Marvin. And, Marvin,
you got a big problem. - [Vivica] Having
revealed his trump card,
00:22:39
there's no turning back
for Detective Zehler. This is the moment of truth. Now it's a case on
whether they can break Williams
00:22:46
and get him to confess, or whether he will
request a lawyer and try to shut them down.
00:22:53
- The level and the pace at
which you conduct that interview and the amount of pressure
you put on the suspect,
00:22:58
it has to keep moving forward,
like a train, almost. Once you've got to
a certain level,
00:23:03
you can't back down. And with Williams, we see him at one point
sort of lean back,
00:23:08
change his posture
because he's not happy. He's not happy,
the way he's being treated.
00:23:14
So that was probably, for me, the pivotal to a point at which you could have gone either way.
00:24:27
(sighs) - As a detective,
having interviewed many people for the offence of murder,
00:24:44
when an admission is made, you're like a swan. You're on top of the water,
acting all regally,
00:24:51
but underneath,
you're peddling like mad because it's
a real adrenaline buzz to get a confession
from a murderer.
00:25:01
- Williams has got quite
a low voice in terms of volume. He's quite labored. He's quite slow in how he
delivers information anyway.
00:25:10
But when he realizes
that the game's up, the voice tone lowers even more. So again, these are all
leakage signals and red flags,
00:25:18
the fact that there's been
a sudden shift in emotion. - Williams describes
the episode,
00:27:32
to start off with, as being fun, where there's
pushing and shoving and a discussion and...
00:27:40
And it's far from fun. Cassandra dies as a result
of this incident and he's trying to play it down,
00:27:49
to make it look as if
it's an accident, it's self-defense. But he's trying to minimize
00:27:56
his involvement in this offense. - Lot of victims get blamed for their own demise
00:29:03
because of their bad behavior. So Marvin's trying to
transfer his bad behavior
00:29:07
onto the girlfriend. And Marvin's on the hook for it. Even Marvin, as dumb as he is,
has figured that out.
00:29:14
But he is still gonna
go with these fairy tales. - When Williams describes the way in which Cassandra dies,
00:30:49
he describes it almost as
a scene from a Shakespeare play. He makes it the most romantic
murder that's ever taken place.
00:31:05
- [Marvin] (long exhale) - [Maleary] Williams
asserts that Cassandra said,
"Baby, baby, I want to die.
00:31:28
"I want to go home." He's effectively saying that she's given him permission
to kill her.
00:31:34
- [Vivica] Detective Zehler
doesn't challenge this absurd story. He knows the more Marvin says,
00:31:40
the deeper the hole
he's digging for himself. - I think the circumstances
surrounding her actual death
00:32:16
are quite surprising. And I think
it's highly unlikely. In fact, it is incredulous
in its finest degree.
00:32:27
And here's why. I don't know if any person who's been accidentally stabbed, as a victim,
00:32:34
suddenly realized
they're bleeding out and say, "Why don't you
just kill me "and get it over with,"
00:32:39
for whatever reason. And if that is his argument, that is a very, very implausible
and weak argument.
00:32:50
- [Vivica] Marvin Williams
has finally confessed to stabbing Cassandra Valentin
to death.
00:32:55
But he's also claiming
that it was a mercy killing, that Cassandra asked him to
put her out of her misery.
00:33:01
(suspenseful music) - [Vivica] Marvin
has just been told that his fiancée, Cassandra,
00:33:48
could have survived
her initial stab wound if he called an ambulance instead of stabbing her
several times in the neck.
00:33:55
His response says it all. - [Ciolino] "Marvin,
you stabbed her in the chest, "and she's talking to you.
00:34:14
"You could have stopped
and called 911 and saved her. "She hadn't been stabbed
in the neck yet."
00:34:19
"No, no she hadn't." "You could have saved her." And Marvin looks at
the detective with disbelief
00:34:24
and goes,
"I'd still be sitting here." "Marvin, she'd be alive." "Yeah, but the end result
is I'd still be sitting here."
00:34:33
In other words,
"Ah, they'd get me "on violation of probation
and domestic violence
00:34:36
"and I go back to penitentiary. "So, what do you
expect me to do?" - [Lee] And his reaction was
one of grave indifference.
00:34:46
His reaction was one of
non-remorse of non-contrition. I think it kind of painted
a pretty good picture
00:34:51
of his character 'cause that's what
he appeared to be. That type of careless, reckless,
00:34:59
in this case, murderer. - Marvin Williams has confessed, but only to his own concocted
and bizarre version of events.
00:35:10
He claims that Cassandra
attacked him with a knife. In the struggle that followed,
00:35:16
she was accidentally
stabbed in the stomach. Then, out of kindness, Marvin stabbed Cassandra
multiple times in her neck.
00:35:25
He claims she had begged him
to finish her off. - [Ciolino] So do we think
we're finished yet,
00:35:32
with the craziness? Crazy Town is still
in full force. - [Vivica] Coming up, Marvin's fantasy becomes
00:35:43
even more elaborate. - [Vivica] Does Detective Zehler
have enough for a conviction?
00:35:51
- This is not
a self-defense issue. This is a coldblooded murder. - [Vivica] Marvin Williams
claims
00:36:04
he accidentally stabbed
his fiancée, Cassandra Valentin, after she came at him
with a knife.
00:36:10
Then, when she begged him
to finish her off, he did so,
with care and kindness.
00:36:37
- "And then you stabbed
her in the neck?" "Yes. Then I stabbed her
in the neck after that."
00:36:40
So, "Baby, I love you. "Baby, give me a kiss.
Baby, send me home. It's just Marvin
just spinning out control here.
00:36:49
- [Vivica] But the crime scene
tells a different story. Cassandra was stabbed in
the neck multiple times,
00:36:55
and it was done with
such force and brutality that the knife's handle
broke off,
00:37:00
leaving the blade
embedded in her throat. So what is Marvin
trying to achieve with this bizarre
version of events?
00:37:10
- [Darren] Once you reach
a certain level where you've been presented
with evidence
00:37:14
that it's clear you're involved, people try to minimize
the impact of that involvement.
00:37:20
So, again, with Williams, we see him give this account
of the fact that it was a bit of a stab wound
to the abdomen,
00:37:27
and then she was
pleading with him to kind of finish her off
and stuff like that,
00:37:31
which, you know,
who would do that? Who would? It goes beyond the realms of
anyone's sort of sense, really.
00:37:40
- [Lee] She's lying there,
dying in his arms, and he wants one last kiss before she reaches out
00:37:45
and touches the face of God. That is just delusional,
to no extent. I mean that is just...
00:37:53
It's unfathomable. And it casts him as someone who's, um... almost having
an out-of-body experience.
00:38:03
- [Vivica] By claiming that Cassandra had
actually attacked him first, Marvin is hoping
to argue self-defense,
00:38:10
but Detective Zehler
explains to Marvin that his own account
of what happened has already ruined
any chance of that.
00:38:50
- The account given by Williams absolutely destroys
his own defense. There isn't a jury
in the United States
00:38:58
that wouldn't
convict him of murder because it is so fictional, it's so implausible
00:39:05
that 12 good people
would always find him guilty. - [Vivica] But Marvin
and Cassandra's relationship
00:39:13
has been complex and volatile, defined by violence, but also co-dependency
over a long period.
00:39:20
Is it possible that a jury might believe
some or all of Marvin's story? - This is not
a self-defense issue.
00:39:30
This is a coldblooded murder. - The disconnect between
the actions and behavior is just so obvious that
00:39:42
it doesn't even warrant
further attention, to be honest. - [Vivica] Despite
Marvin's confession
00:39:48
and his utterly implausible
explanation, no murder case is cut and dry, and no conviction
is 100% certain.
00:40:00
- You can never take
a confession on face value. You have to prove that
it has taken place
00:40:06
in that particular way. Therefore, you need to build all the other evidence
around it,
00:40:11
the forensics, the telephone work
that would've taken place, the witness statements that
they'd have needed to take.
00:40:19
You need to put
all of that together in order to prove the case. - [Vivica] And more than that,
00:40:25
it has to be made clear
to the perpetrator, in this case, Marvin Williams, that he is not going to
get away with his lies.
00:41:20
- [Ciolino] Yeah,
it's pretty safe to say that Marvin's so full of it
it's unbelievable.
00:41:25
And it's what
makes this case remarkable, is that Marvin actually
gives all of this up
00:41:30
in grand, glorious detail, with these crazy, I mean... The best lawyer in the world
00:41:36
couldn't get Marvin
out of this one. - [Vivica]
On January 24th, 2018, Marvin Williams was charged
00:41:44
with first-degree murder
of Cassandra Valentin, but it didn't remain that way. - [Lee] He wasn't prosecuted
for first-degree murder,
00:41:55
which I guess the state
could not prove that it was with the intention
or premeditation to kill.
00:42:00
But given that it was a crime, and perhaps may have occurred
in the heat of the moment
00:42:04
where death resulted is more likely
an unintentional homicide, and that is what he pled to.
00:42:11
(tense music) - [Vivica] In the end, Marvin Williams
was found guilty of the second-degree murder
of Cassandra Valentin.
00:42:20
In January, 2019, he was sentenced to
35 years in prison. Despite his vow to his sisters
00:42:29
that he would rather die
than face prison time again, Marvin Williams will likely
spend the rest of his life
00:42:36
behind bars. (intense music)