00:00:03
[music playing] NARRATOR: March the 13th,
1990, Bristol, England. 24-year-old New Zealander,
Clive Tully, returned to the UK
00:00:14
having been traveling
through Spain. Short on cash, he
asked a friend, Malcolm Green, if he could
stay with him for a few days.
00:00:22
One week later, the dismembered
remains of a young man were left in bags by
the side of a busy road.
00:00:29
The police had no
idea who it was. The obvious things
that were missing were the head and the hands.
00:00:37
NARRATOR: A young farmer
then came across another set of dump bags. He said he felt it and put
his hand in and felt the nose
00:00:47
and then dropped
it and called us. NARRATOR: Using cutting-edge
graphic reconstruction
00:00:51
of the victim's skull, an
identity finally emerged. His words he used were,
it's like I've seen a ghost.
00:00:59
NARRATOR: And that
ghost was Clive Tully. But this was not Malcolm
Green's first victim.
00:01:05
A frenzied outrageous attack,
it's a killing of the most despicable violence. NARRATOR: For Malcolm Green,
killing was only the beginning.
00:01:16
He wanted to baffle the
police and present them with a gruesome puzzle to solve,
a jigsaw of human remains,
00:01:24
making Malcolm Green one of
the world's most evil killers. [music playing] June 21, 1971,
Cardiff, Wales, UK.
00:01:56
24-year-old Malcolm Green was
drunkenly leaving a nightclub when he attacked
41-year-old, Glenys
00:02:03
Johnson, a domestic cleaner
and part-time prostitute. The killing of Glenys
was incredibly violent.
00:02:10
He used a broken bottle
to slash her throat, and the wound was around
5 inches in length.
00:02:15
She also had around 20
stab wounds to her body. NARRATOR: Green
discarded Johnson
00:02:25
near Cardiff Docks
where he worked, making little effort to hide her body. He rings the police and says,
have you found the body yet?
00:02:34
Now, there will be four
more, and this is the Ripper. He's living in some
kind of bizarre fantasy
00:02:42
of his own creation. That now he's committed
this really atrocious crime on a prostitute, well,
why shouldn't he go
00:02:49
and commit a number of others? [music playing] MARK WATERS: Yes,
the body was found,
00:02:57
and they had no clue
because they suspected that she was a prostitute. It wasn't until he
made those telephone
00:03:07
calls that they could link him. Virtually, if he
kept his mouth shut, he'd probably got away with it.
00:03:15
NARRATOR: Malcolm
Green was arrested and found guilty of murder. He was sentenced
to life in prison
00:03:21
and served almost 18 years. He was released on the
16th of October, 1989. WILLIAM GLYNN: He was a very
presentable sort of guy.
00:03:29
He was a sort of guy
that if you met him, you would probably strike
up conversation with him.
00:03:35
He was quite a smart man, and
he was quite an eloquent man. And he was a talkative
man, but I think
00:03:46
he had a very short temper. NARRATOR: After his
release from jail, Green was free to
begin a new life
00:03:55
and went to live in Bristol,
where he met 24-year-old New Zealander, Clive Tully.
00:04:03
The two men lived in
the same building, worked for the same employer,
and appeared to become friends.
00:04:11
ELIZABETH YARDLEY: There would
have come a point where he was starting to not feel in control
of what was going on in terms
00:04:17
of this friendship, especially
if Clive was perhaps in his flat or dropping
in or knocking on his door
00:04:24
at times when Green didn't
want him to be there. He has some very
clear boundaries.
00:04:29
This is my space. This is your space. NARRATOR: Despite
their friendship and with no apparent motive,
on or around March 19th, 1990,
00:04:40
Malcolm Green
killed Clive Tully. He dismembered his body,
wrapped the remains in separate packages
and dumped them
00:04:49
in two different locations. MARK WATERS: You've got a
situation where you suddenly,
00:04:54
why does somebody lead on the
side of a road, a busy place, praying that there's something
I can identify the body with,
00:05:02
then realizing I
didn't know anything. Where do we start with this? What are we going to
do with this body?
00:05:08
Got DNA, obviously, but
somebody's got to miss him, bound to miss him. NARRATOR: This
killer story begins
00:05:21
on the 31st of January, 1947. Malcolm Green was born in
the Welsh city of Cardiff.
00:05:29
GEOFFREY WANSELL: He was
the fifth of 12 children. It was a crowded house. He was a tempestuous little boy.
00:05:40
Not particularly clever. Given to temper. He went to a secondary modern
school until he was 13.
00:05:49
And then he was sent
to approved school. Of course, you look
at Green's background,
00:05:53
he witnessed his brother
being killed on a railway line when he was very young. And he had to go and
identify the body
00:06:01
of a headless body, basically. You got to wonder why was
he put in this position.
00:06:13
Why were his parents not able
to identify his siblings? So here we've got
this very heavy
00:06:19
sense of responsibility that is
on Green at quite an early age. And I think that's very
much a factor in this case.
00:06:28
So I think there's a
sense of shame that starts to kick in here for Green. Even if other people didn't
say, this was your fault,
00:06:35
you should have been
looking after him. I think there was
probably a sense in which
00:06:38
he very much felt that. So whenever I see
cases like this, I always believe that
violence is rooted in shame.
00:06:45
And I think the
shame in this case goes back to this
particular incident. GEOFFREY WANSELL: He
was one of those people
00:06:55
you know you'd probably
cross the street to avoid. He got into fight after
fight, covered in scars.
00:07:04
But believe it or
not, he actually did get married
as a comparatively young man in his early 20s,
and his wife was pregnant.
00:07:15
ELIZABETH YARDLEY:
When we look at how Green's wife
describes him, he is a textbook case of an abuser.
00:07:21
But then, when you start
to spend any time with him in an intimate relationship, he
becomes incredibly controlling.
00:07:27
So we know that he
was thematically tidy. He liked everything
being in order. So here's somebody who
runs their household.
00:07:35
They are the ones in charge. They are the ones
calling the shots. NARRATOR: As a young man, Green
lived in Cardiff with his wife
00:07:46
but struggled to hold down any
kind of meaningful employment. GEOFFREY WANSELL: He'd
had all sorts of jobs.
00:07:53
At one point, I think
he was a salesman. At another point, he
worked at a slaughterhouse.
00:07:58
At another point, he went into
the Welsh regiment of the army. NARRATOR: Green ended up working
as a crane driver for British
00:08:06
Steel at Cardiff Docks. He continued
getting into fights, and his wife was very
aware of his short fuse.
00:08:15
Green apparently
said to his wife that he was wondering what it
would be like to kill someone,
00:08:20
how that would feel. And that would appear to be
a really strange thing to say to your intimate partner.
00:08:25
But in this case, Green was
somebody who was abusive. He was controlling. And I think this
was a scare tactic.
00:08:32
This was a way of
saying to his wife, look, you better keep
in line because if you
00:08:38
don't, I'm wondering
what it might feel like to kill someone. So we often see this in
cases of domestic abuse.
00:08:43
There is that threat. And it might not be
a very direct threat, but it's very much a threat.
00:08:48
It's saying, you
better behave yourself. You better do the things that
I want you to do, otherwise,
00:08:53
this could happen to you. NARRATOR: In June 1971, Green's
wife suffered a miscarriage
00:09:02
and was admitted to a hospital. On the 21st of June,
24-year old Greene went out
00:09:10
to a Cardiff nightclub. He clearly drinks far too
much and comes out late in the evening,
where he encounters
00:09:21
a local domestic cleaner
and part-time prostitute called Glenys
Johnson, who was 41.
00:09:32
I think she probably
approached him with a thought that she might get
a bit of business.
00:09:39
Green, however, was
not a man that you could really call rational. And he simply, as he was to
say later, lost his temper.
00:09:51
He exploded literally. And he attacked poor
Glenys brutally. Not just marginally, brutally.
00:10:00
He cut her throat with a
broken bottle, a 5-inch gash pretty much back to the spine.
00:10:09
And then he sets
about mutilating the rest of her body,
removing some clothes, stabbing the abdomen and
the arms with broken glass.
00:10:20
A frenzied outrageous attack. And then finally, the poor
woman having lost her life,
00:10:28
he hides her body face down
under a car on some waste ground near Cardiff Docks.
00:10:35
It's a killing of the
most despicable violence. ELIZABETH YARDLEY:
When we see this kind
00:10:44
of post-mortem mutilation,
what's going on here is an attempt to
obliterate the victim.
00:10:49
It's an attempt to completely
depersonalize them. It's not enough to kill them. It's not enough
to end their life.
00:10:55
You have to completely
wipe them out. And that's what
was going on here. NARRATOR: After
killing Glenys Green
00:11:03
walked the short journey to
his workplace at the docks and cleaned himself up. But then you begin to glimpse
the fantasy that's going
00:11:14
on in Malcolm Green's mind. I think he had this
vision of himself as a kind of modern
day, all his 1971
00:11:26
version of Jack the Ripper. Because he does exactly what
he will have remembered Jack
00:11:34
the Ripper did, he rings
the police and says, have you found the body yet? NARRATOR: Malcolm Green returned
to the same phone box at least
00:11:46
twice, taunting the police. Like infamous serial
killer, Jack the Ripper, he made claims there would
be more bodies very soon.
00:11:57
So very often we see this
kind of disposal of the body. And we think this
is somebody who
00:12:02
was crying out to be caught. They want the police to
come and arrest them. They want the recognition.
00:12:07
They want the status. They certainly don't want to
take responsibility for it. NARRATOR: Within
days of her murder,
00:12:13
41-year-old Glenys
Johnson was found. ELIZABETH YARDLEY: Glenys's
body was discovered under a car.
00:12:20
This is where Green had put her. He'd covered her
with some rubbish. So this isn't a really,
really detailed effort
00:12:27
to actually conceal the body. The body is somewhere where
it's going to be discovered.
00:12:34
NARRATOR: The police traced
the source of the phone calls to a phone box
near Cardiff Docks.
00:12:39
They received a call and they
raced to the box this night. And a chap was in the box.
00:12:45
They grabbed him,
arrested him and accused him of making this phone call. He said, it wasn't me.
00:12:50
I didn't make that phone-- I just rang my wife. But he said the guy
that was in here
00:12:54
is a guy called Green that
looks as Green driver docks. At first, Green admits it.
00:13:07
He says, I don't know how
I did it or why I done it. I only had a comb
and a shilling.
00:13:12
And then he retracts it again. I wonder if Green was perhaps
suffering small amount of shame
00:13:23
that he just finally
realized he'd done something catastrophic, dreadful. But one way or
another, Cardiff police
00:13:35
are convinced that he's guilty,
and they send him for trial. NARRATOR: In October
1971, Malcolm Green went
00:13:44
on trial at Glamorgan Assizes. The jury heard how he
brutally and viciously murdered Glenys Johnson.
00:13:53
GEOFFREY WANSELL: One other
decisive piece of evidence came from his wife who told
the court that she remembered
00:14:01
Greene saying to
her, I wonder what it's like to murder somebody. And I think if you add
all those things together,
00:14:10
you have no doubt
in a jury's mind about Malcolm Green's guilt. NARRATOR: On November
the 5th, 1971,
00:14:20
Malcolm Green was
sentenced to life in prison with a recommended
tariff of 25 years.
00:14:27
But Malcolm Green was
only 24 years old. November 1971, Malcolm
Green was committed
00:14:39
to serve his sentence
at Gartree Prison in Leicestershire, England. Seven years later, on
October the 5th, 1978,
00:14:49
Green was one of
250 prisoners who took control of
three prison blocks in the maximum
security facility.
00:14:57
The riot lasted
for over 12 hours before more than 300
prison officers and staff
00:15:03
regained control of the prison. GEOFFREY WANSELL: He is
not a model prisoner. He is belligerent,
aggressive, difficult.
00:15:13
He's constantly getting
in trouble in prison. Even in jail, he is brutal. But gradually,
some of that begins
00:15:25
to ebb away as the years pass. By the time we get into the late
'80s, by now he's in his 40s,
00:15:35
he's being prepared for release,
as the phrase has it and is moved down from the
maximum security
00:15:43
down into lower security
prisons and eventually, is allowed to go and do
day release to study.
00:15:52
It's fascinating what
he chooses, to study. He chooses to study
biology, A-Level Biology.
00:16:00
Now if you track
that back to this is the Ripper, to
the way in which he attacked Glenys
Johnson, there
00:16:07
is an absolute single thread. [music playing] NARRATOR: In March
1989, Green was
00:16:20
transferred to
Leyhill open prison in Gloucestershire, England. ELIZABETH YARDLEY: So
he's getting out early.
00:16:28
And I think this is really
important in this case because it suggests
to me that Greene
00:16:33
has learned how to perform the
character of the reformed man. When anybody is in prison
for a very long time,
00:16:40
they get to know
the kind of things that they need to do,
sometimes in terms of genuine change,
other times in terms
00:16:47
of performing a change. And I think that's very
much the case with Green. He knew that he had to convince
the parole board that it
00:16:54
was safe to release him. And he started to do things
that would be in his favor.
00:17:01
NARRATOR: With Green locked up
in prison, his wife left him. And the couple
divorced in the 1980s.
00:17:08
While he's at the local
technical college to Bristol, because by this point, he's
in Leyhill open prison, which
00:17:14
is not far from Bristol,
he meets a young woman and they become friends. And gradually, as
1989 progresses,
00:17:25
Green is prepared for release. And he's finally released on
the 16th of October, 1989.
00:17:32
And he decides to
get what he calls a fresh start by going
to live in Bristol where his girlfriend now lives.
00:17:41
And she is a good 20
years younger than him. WILLIAM GLYNN: Well he was
a well-built individual,
00:17:48
an individual who
would obviously use the weights when he was
in prison, I would suggest.
00:17:52
He was slim. I think he was about
a 39-inch chest. He wasn't particularly tall,
but I would imagine he would
00:18:01
be quite a strong individual. His hair was thinning but quite
a good-looking man really.
00:18:14
NARRATOR: In
Bristol, Green found work as an engineering laborer. GEOFFREY WANSELL:
When he goes, leaves
00:18:20
prison and goes to Bristol,
he moves into a flat. And that flat becomes part
of his place he lives.
00:18:30
He's not there all the time. Sometimes he goes to
his girlfriend's house in Fishponds, but he's
there some of the time.
00:18:37
And it's there that
he meets a young New Zealander called Clive Tully. WILLIAM GLYNN: But his father
had been born in Newport
00:18:47
and had emigrated
to New Zealand, and Tully lived there
and went to school there.
00:18:53
He had various jobs when he left
school, all of short duration. But he decided that he
wanted to go to Newport,
00:19:02
which was his
father's birthplace, and look up his relatives there. NARRATOR: After Clive Tully
had spent some time in Newport
00:19:11
visiting family, he was offered
a construction job and rented accommodation in Bristol.
00:19:17
On October the 16th, 1989, he
met Malcolm Green who lived in a flat in the same building.
00:19:26
They were both working
for the same company and became friends. ELIZABETH YARDLEY: I
think he quite liked
00:19:35
the fact that Clive liked him. Because Green is a narcissist
and having the approval,
00:19:41
having the attention of
others, having others wanting to be around
you is something
00:19:46
that is quite important to him. And Clive was on the
other side of the world from where he originally came
from, he was quite vulnerable.
00:19:54
He was young. He was, I imagine, quite
naive in some ways. And this is something
that a predator like Green
00:20:01
would prey on. GEOFFREY WANSELL: The
place they're living is owned by the
boss of the company
00:20:09
that they're working for. It's a bit hand-to-mouth. We're not talking
about a career here.
00:20:15
But then, Clive Tully is
only on a brief visit. And besides that, he then
gets a wanderlust again.
00:20:22
And he's been to Wales, and
he's seen the relatives, and he's met his
aunties, so he decides
00:20:27
he wants to go to
Spain, he leaves Bristol and goes to Spain for
the first part of 1990.
00:20:39
MARK WATERS: The
people of New Zealand obviously thought he'd come to
the UK and settle in the UK.
00:20:45
So you had the people
in Newport that were distant relatives thought
he'd gone back to New Zealand.
00:20:51
People in New Zealand
thought he was in the UK. But in fact, what he did,
he ran out of money in Spain
00:20:56
and came back to Bristol. NARRATOR: On the 13th of March
1990, Tully returned to Bristol
00:21:05
totally broke and went to
stay temporarily with friends. A week later, he asked his old
friend, Malcolm Green for help.
00:21:15
Green agreed that Tully could
stay with him for a few days. Clive had visited Green at
the home of Green's girlfriends.
00:21:25
And this is something that
Green did not like because he's trying to present this image
of the reformed character
00:21:31
to his girlfriend. He doesn't want anybody
else coming into the picture and saying or
doing anything that
00:21:37
would be inconsistent
with that narrative. Also, Clive has asked Greene
whether he can stay in Green's
00:21:44
flat during this interaction. And this is something that
Green doesn't like either
00:21:48
because his flat, his
territory, nobody, nobody invades that territory. And the presence of
Green's girlfriend
00:21:55
is again really important
here because he doesn't want to be the mean guy who says
no, you can't stay in my flat,
00:22:02
go away. He has to perform this
narrative of the nice guy in front of his girlfriend.
00:22:06
So he feels compelled
to say to Clive, yes, you can stay in my flat. MARK WATERS: Tully
was unique in a way
00:22:14
because he wouldn't be missed. I didn't know that at the time. I was quite confident
somebody would miss him.
00:22:20
But he was one of the people
that, if you were going to pick somebody to kill, if
you like, and not get caught,
00:22:31
he was probably an ideal
chap because nobody would have missed him. NARRATOR: A few days later,
around March the 19th,
00:22:38
1990, Malcolm Green
returned to his flat. The exact reason for his
return will never be known.
00:22:46
But It was here he murdered
for the second time, killing 24-year-old Clive
Tully in a brutal attack.
00:22:54
The reformed murderer
had struck again. March 21, 1990, Newport, Wales,
UK, a schoolteacher driving
00:23:05
on the A467 spotted
two suspicious bags dumped by the side of the road. He reported this to the police.
00:23:15
Bill Glynn was the
Detective Chief Inspector in charge of the
Crime Division in Newport.
00:23:21
I was in the Civic
Center Police Station which is a distance of
about a mile and a half,
00:23:27
two miles from there. I was having my lunch actually. I remember it was 1:50 PM.
00:23:33
I got in the car with my
scenes-of-crime officer and went to the scene. We opened the bags, and
it became quite apparent
00:23:42
that it was human remains. Yeah, there was a red
and black rucksack. I think it was
called an Oakland,
00:23:51
and also there was
a maroon holdall. In the rucksack, was the
torso with the upper arms
00:24:01
still attached. And in the other bag,
there were various body parts which were thighs, legs,
lower legs with feet attached.
00:24:12
And they were all
wrapped separately. And they'd been placed
into this holdall. They were wrapped in
articles of clothing
00:24:19
or some were in
black plastic bags. Yeah, the obvious
things that were missing were the head and the hands,
which would have been obviously
00:24:28
the main identifying features. NARRATOR: Former Detective Chief
superintendent Mark Waters was
00:24:36
head of Gwent CID at the time. MARK WATERS: I needed to do a
press conference because once
00:24:42
they told me there
was no head no hands, obviously we did a search
of missing persons.
00:24:47
There was nothing,
not ours anyway. I searched around the
rest of the country to see if anybody
fit the description.
00:24:53
We did that quite rapidly. And I realized then, we're going
to need the public, somebody
00:25:00
to come forward. So I did press
conferences that night, showed the bags so that people
could see what had happened.
00:25:07
WILLIAM GLYNN: We had no
idea who the victim was. And the first thing we did was
set up an incident room, which
00:25:13
we set up in Maindee
Police Station, which was another substation. And I was allocated
four of the officers,
00:25:22
and I was made the senior
investigating officer. We then set out,
our first task was,
00:25:28
obviously, to try and
identify who the person was. We tried to do this
through the media.
00:25:36
We gave it terrific amount
of publicity both locally, and then later on when we
got no success with that,
00:25:43
we went further afield. We also went to Interpol,
but there was no way we could trace who the person was.
00:25:52
A schoolmaster came
forward eventually, and told us that he'd seen
a person drove up in a car
00:25:59
and drop the 2 bags. He gave a description
of the person and said the car was a Mini.
00:26:09
We were quite happy
that the timing of it fitted exactly when we
thought the bags were dropped.
00:26:17
So from that point of
view we thought, well, we've got a-- time, I
think it was about 10
00:26:22
to 1:00 that this guy
drove up, just got out, took the bugs out of
the boot, dropped them there
00:26:28
and drove away. We know it's a Mini, but
that's basically all. And we got somebody who
could probably identify
00:26:34
the guy if we could find him. WILLIAM GLYNN: And they
paid particular attention because they wondered
if it was a local
00:26:41
and if he was in trouble and
if they could give him a hand. And that person was a very,
very good witness obviously.
00:26:48
MARK WATERS: And then
I set the detectives on the search of the bags
because the bags themselves, I
00:26:55
felt we could probably identify. Which if we could
identify the bags, we could probably
identify the body.
00:27:02
WILLIAM GLYNN: Well,
there wasn't much we could do with the maroon holdall. But the rucksack had
a brand name on it.
00:27:13
And we made inquiries
concerning that. And we traced the fact that it
had been issued in New Zealand,
00:27:22
which was the first time that
we got any connection with New Zealand. NARRATOR: Four
days later on March
00:27:33
the 25th, 1990, and 5
miles from the first scene, there was another
gruesome discovery.
00:27:41
MARK WATERS: There were
two bags there was a DuPont tent, a sleeping bag cover. And inside that was the head.
00:27:52
And there was a plastic bag
alongside it with the hands. A young farmer
found the DuPont bag
00:27:59
hanging on the hedge down in
St. Brides and this plastic bag nearby. He said he felt it and put
his hand in it, felt the nose
00:28:09
and then dropped
it and called us. When they had enhanced
it up, obviously, we looked at, examined that.
00:28:16
The pathologist came
to the conclusion that he was hit
over the head with a hammer or
hammer-like instrument
00:28:21
and fractured his skull. So he was attacked probably
from behind with blows that would rain on him.
00:28:29
NARRATOR: The police
were able to lift fingerprints from the severed
hands, but no match was found.
00:28:36
Their one remaining option
was to try and identify the victim from the head. Well, what we actually did
was we photographed the head.
00:28:45
It was remarkably well
preserved, to be honest. And I wanted to put the
photograph in the local paper.
00:28:53
But it was decreed that it would
be a little bit too gruesome. So what we did, we got
an artist to draw it.
00:29:00
And we put an artist
impression, first of all, into the local paper, which
was the South Wales Argus.
00:29:07
But we had no sightings
from that at all. NARRATOR: Journalist
Carl Difford was working
00:29:12
for the newspaper at the time. In the South
Wales Argus, we had a small graphics artist team.
00:29:20
And one of that teams, a very
talented artist and Illustrator who had some software,
quite groundbreaking
00:29:30
for the time, software
which could reconstruct layers on top of, in this
case, bone and some flesh
00:29:39
left on that. The result was
shown to everybody around who wanted to see it. And we had a look and sort of,
yes, it did look like a person.
00:29:49
Maybe somebody could
recognize that. And my colleague
came and sat down opposite me just a few feet
away and just sat quietly.
00:30:00
And that was not his usual self. And somebody asked him
if he was all right and he said, actually, I
don't feel particularly well.
00:30:10
His words he used were,
it's like I've seen a ghost. And it turns out
that Clive Tully was
00:30:18
a relative of his, a cousin. And he'd actually
spent some time with him a few days earlier.
00:30:26
NARRATOR: The police
had now identified the dismembered
body, Clive Tully. They contacted his last
known employer and landlord.
00:30:36
He told the police that
before Tully left for Spain, he'd rented a flat
from him in Bristol.
00:30:44
WILLIAM GLYNN: We contacted
the owner of the premises and went into the
house with him.
00:30:51
And there we found that-- he was able to tell us that
rooms had changed around, the lounge area had
now become the bedroom,
00:31:04
and the bedroom area
was now the lounge. And all the respective furniture
had also been changed around.
00:31:10
NARRATOR: The police were
instantly suspicious. Why had the rooms
been moved around?
00:31:16
What was the
furniture concealing and who had rearranged it all? They then found a
letter addressed
00:31:22
to a Mr. Malcolm Green,
a murderer out on parole. March 30th, 1990,
Bristol, England.
00:31:32
The police had identified
the dismembered body of 24-year-old New
Zealander Clive Tully
00:31:39
and the scene of his murder. They also had a
suspect, Malcolm Green, a convicted murderer
out on parole.
00:31:49
He wasn't at the premises. So we made inquiries
with neighbors. And one of the neighbors
told us that he
00:31:54
was out with his girlfriend. So we went to his
girlfriend's address. And we waited there
for him to come back.
00:32:02
He was driving her car. And as I go back,
we arrested him. Well, obviously, we told him
the reason for the arrest.
00:32:13
He showed a feigned
shock, I would suggest, but didn't show too much
emotion and just pretended
00:32:23
to be surprised really at the
news that we were giving him and told us that he had
nothing to do with it.
00:32:31
NARRATOR: Malcolm Green was
taken to Trinity Road Police Station in Bristol
for questioning,
00:32:37
while a police forensics team
descended on the crime scene. At the scene then, we
found blood under the floor,
00:32:46
under the carpet,
blood and parts of flesh inside the pipes. Quite clearly, cut the
body up in the flat.
00:32:56
We felt cleaning
liquid everywhere. We traced that back to
local shops in Fishponds,
00:33:01
I think it was. And they agreed they'd
sold it to Green. They identified him. Then we had Green
identified by the chap
00:33:08
who saw him drop the bodies. The Mini, the girlfriend
owned the Mini. She said she lent him
the Mini that day.
00:33:15
Checked the Mini, found blood
in the back of the Mini, matched the body. So we had a lot of evidence.
00:33:21
NARRATOR: Witness accounts
of Green's movements place the day of the
murder as March 19th,
00:33:27
two days before the bags were
dumped on the side of the road. The pathologist was
unable to establish
00:33:35
the precise time of death. But he did make an observation
about the dismemberment
00:33:40
of Clive Tully's body. So you come into the fact that
he said, whoever's cut this up
00:33:46
has some skill in terms
of butchering, which is helpful in terms of, whoever
did it wasn't in a mad panic
00:33:59
and cutting it and
chopping it and so on, and using power source. He knew what he was
doing, basically.
00:34:07
Finally, in early
May 1990, the police held an identity parade. Malcolm Green was
in that parade.
00:34:15
And one witness
confirmed that that was the man they'd
seen at the lay-by when the bags were being put there.
00:34:23
Those were the strengths
of the prosecution's case when Green was eventually
brought to trial.
00:34:32
NARRATOR: Former
Detective Chief Inspector Bill Glynn interviewed
Malcolm Green on four separate occasions.
00:34:41
WILLIAM GLYNN: Well, how
would I describe him? Very cool. Nothing seemed to ruffle
him, to be perfectly honest.
00:34:50
He was very cool. I think it was almost as if he
enjoyed the interviews, enjoyed
00:34:59
pitting his wits
against the police, but showed very little
emotion, if any. If he did show any emotion,
I think it was false emotion,
00:35:13
to be perfectly honest. During the interview, what was
strange was that he answered
00:35:20
every question I put to him. He completely denied the
murder, admitted knowing Tully,
00:35:29
and admitted that
he'd lived with him. In fact, went as far as
to say that he considered
00:35:34
he was Tully's best friend. NARRATOR: Green was
questioned as to why the rooms in his flat at Luxton
Street had been rearranged.
00:35:44
What was he trying to conceal? And why had he bought so
many cleaning products? His only explanation was
that because he'd come out
00:35:52
from a prison for murder,
people knew that he committed a murder before. So they were trying to pin the
blame for this murder on him.
00:36:02
Green is a pathological liar. And when we look
at the information that he gives in the
police interviews,
00:36:08
you can see he's very
cool, he's very calm. He's incredibly collected. And he's learned from
the first murder.
00:36:14
So the first murder,
when he was arrested, he just kind of
spilled the beans. He told them everything
about it because he so
00:36:22
wanted that recognition. With this one, the
several years later, he's a lot more reserved
because he knows that he
00:36:29
has to put himself first. He has to think about the
outcomes that are going to emerge from laying
out all of the details
00:36:36
like he did the first time. So he doesn't. He lies very, very convincingly. And you can see the kind of
progression of his personality
00:36:46
from the first to
the second murder. He's become even more cunning,
even more manipulative.
00:36:55
WILLIAM GLYNN: I just felt that
most of what he was saying, we were disproving. He was saying he'd gone for job
interviews and what have you.
00:37:04
But then he couldn't give
us the name of anybody who'd interviewed him. He said he changed his mind, and
so they didn't interview him.
00:37:13
He gave us a pub that
he'd visited on the day that the car was seen
in Newport and the name
00:37:22
of a couple of people in
the pub, the Bar Maiden. None of them could
remember seeing
00:37:26
him in that pub that day. So everything he was saying
was basically unprovable. The interview I
felt that he always
00:37:39
felt that he was confident, that
he could outwit us basically. But he was saying so much
that was quite easy for us
00:37:49
to disprove. ELIZABETH YARDLEY: When we
look at who Green killed, there doesn't appear to
be a lot of consistency,
00:37:56
two very different victims. But I think the common thread
throughout these two killings
00:38:01
is that these are people
who have challenged Green's sense of superiority. These are people
who he's felt out
00:38:08
of control in the presence of. And he will kill them in order
to get that control back.
00:38:14
So it's nothing that
either of these victims did, but it was Green's
reaction to it that matters.
00:38:20
He is somebody who always
has to be in control. He always has to be the
one calling the shots.
00:38:25
And when somebody
interferes with his plan, that's when things
go very wrong. NARRATOR: On Monday
the 2nd of April, 1990,
00:38:33
Malcolm Green appeared
before the justices at Bristol Magistrates
Court, charged
00:38:39
with the murder of Clive Tully. The trial began at
Bristol Crown Court on Tuesday, the 23rd
of October, 1990.
00:38:49
MARK WATERS: I was expecting
that to be a very quick trial. He didn't give
evidence as a defense.
00:38:55
I think the jury, I
was expecting them back at quarter past 11:00. They were there half past 10:00.
00:39:00
I thought the
courthouse led me back. They didn't come back. It went on and on and
on during the day.
00:39:06
They hadn't reached a verdict. And in fact, riding the
home office and said, look, what's the situation?
00:39:12
This guy walks? Do I have to let him go,
because he's on license. And they said, no,
if he goes, he goes.
00:39:18
If they're not
guilty, out he goes. NARRATOR: The jurors were in
the dark about his past crime.
00:39:25
Green's previous
conviction for murder and his status as being out
on parole for that crime
00:39:31
was information that was
inadmissible in court. MARK WATERS: So he got
about half past 4:00.
00:39:37
The jury coming back,
I think the judge had asked for a majority verdict. He came to the door of the
court and was just coming out.
00:39:45
And then the foreman
then indicated that they had a majority verdict. Walked into the jury
box, charges read out,
00:39:56
and they said, guilty. And then the Detective Inspector
went to give his antecedents,
00:40:03
and then stood in
the dock and said-- in the witness box said,
he was convicted in 1971
00:40:09
of murdering a girl in Cardiff. And a young girl on the jury
started screaming hysterically.
00:40:15
She'd obviously holding
up all day long. Anyway, he's convicted and
sentenced to life imprisonment.
00:40:22
Then he turned to
his girlfriend-- I was sat in the back of the
court, turned to to his girl
00:40:26
and said, I didn't do it. She said, no, darling,
I'll wait for you. And it's when the verdict is
handed down that the real Green
00:40:35
reveals himself. And he shouts, you are wrong,
to the jury afterwards. So this veneer of
respectability.
00:40:42
This kind of cool
and calm exterior just slips for one moment. And we see who he really is.
00:40:49
NARRATOR: Green was initially
sentenced to a minimum of 25 years in prison. This was later changed
by the Home Secretary
00:40:58
to a whole life term. Malcolm Green will
never be released again. I think maybe there was a
part of Green that thought
00:41:07
he may get away with this. He's got a history of
being convicted for murder and getting out
early, essentially.
00:41:15
But we've also got
to remember that he's somebody who very much
lives in the present moment.
00:41:19
He's a prisoner of the present. He has a lot of trouble
projecting into the future
00:41:23
and thinking about
what might happen. So I think it probably did
come as a bit of a nasty shock
00:41:29
to him to find that
he's having to serve another very lengthy sentence. MARK WATERS: What
would Tully had done
00:41:38
to cause him such annoyance? I don't know. Nobody else seemed to
fall out with Tully.
00:41:43
Tully was quiet. From what I gather,
he was a quiet lad. He could have said,
soon go get lost.
00:41:50
Checked him out, but to
kill a guy, what for? Why did he kill Tully? He hadn't seen Tully for ages.
00:41:58
In fact, I think he's
probably lent him some money. I don't know. Certainly, if you
lend somebody money,
00:42:03
you're not going to
kill him because you want the money back. I really don't know.
00:42:07
But he killed him in his lounge
that night for whatever reason. Very strange. For me, the most striking
moment of this case
00:42:15
is that the really good work
that the police detectives did in identifying Clive.
00:42:21
They saw him as a human being,
a sentient human being who had loved ones and a family.
00:42:27
And they had to identify him
and return him to his family. And this was the
complete opposite
00:42:32
of how Green saw Clive. He saw him as an
inconvenience, a pain, somebody who he had to get rid of.
00:42:38
So I think it's that the
recognition of the victim's humanity here that's
really striking
00:42:43
and how that contrasts
with Green's mindset. NARRATOR: Malcolm Green
was a young 24-year-old man
00:42:50
when he brutally
murdered Glenys Johnson. After serving his time, he was
given a second chance at life
00:42:57
but proved that he
was still a killer unable to control his emotions
by killing Clive Tully.
00:43:04
No one truly knows the motives
behind these callous murders. But thanks to the
dedication of the police,
00:43:12
Malcolm Green will spend
the rest of his life in prison as one of the
world's most evil killers.
00:43:19
[music playing]