00:00:03
[grim music] - He was always talking
to boys who had girlfriends, and he seemed to be
jealous of them.
00:00:15
- You have someone, a boy,
who is actually very fragile. - He said that he
knew her routine,
00:00:25
and he also asked her,
how was school today? - This is somebody who
is hiding in plain sight.
00:00:32
- He was buying weapons. He had really big zombie
knives in his possession. There was a killer
on the loose.
00:00:39
[theme music] [ominous music] [camera shutter clicking] MICHAEL PRIDDLE:
I wanted to go out
00:01:22
and photograph the moon, which
is my hobby, which I love. The cloud cover was too great,
so I decided to go home.
00:01:42
I walked along the path,
and I heard the two screams coming from the beach. One was a long scream.
00:01:54
The other one was a shorter
scream with an abrupt end. Coming around the corner
was where I first saw
00:02:11
a man coming off the steps. He covered his
face with his hood. His hood moved, and under
this light, I saw his face.
00:02:30
[grim music] The following morning,
the local newspaper said there had been a stabbing.
00:02:46
- The whole attack
lasted six minutes. Six minutes doesn't
sound like a long time,
00:02:54
but for someone who's being
stabbed over and over, that's an awfully long time
to being pursued by someone.
00:03:02
- Tributes have been left
here to the woman who died. And another woman,
a 38-year-old,
00:03:08
remains in hospital
with serious injuries. Dorset police are
urging people who have seen the man pictured
in this CCTV image
00:03:16
to call them on 999
if they see him. - There was a killer
on the loose. [solemn music]
00:03:33
ARDAM AFZAL: He came
here with his parents when he was really
young, and they came here
00:03:37
to sort of make themselves
upstanding British citizens and part of the community.
00:03:42
PIPPA AFZAL: It's
a great environment, lots of sports, lots
of outdoor activities,
00:03:47
a great place, great
community, great support. I know a friend of mine
knew their neighbors
00:03:53
and said they were
a really lovely family. - With Nasen Saadi, what we
have is a boy who started
00:04:04
off wanting to be seen. He talked about how
he never really felt loved by his
family, and that is
00:04:11
something that I wrestle with. Nasen Saadi wanted
to be seen as strong. He wanted to be
seen as masculine,
00:04:19
ever since he was a little boy. That seems to be
all he's wanted, is to be included in order
to get that kind of attention
00:04:25
that they're craving. [solemn music] ARDAM AFZAL: I first
met Nasen at college,
00:04:39
and initially, I did
feel bad for him. He seemed to be a bit of an
outsider, a bit of a loner.
00:04:45
He had strange
tendencies as well. The way he'd act around
people, and especially females,
00:04:51
was very odd. He'd often come up to people
that he wouldn't know and act like they're friends.
00:04:59
He was asking about
relationships because he really wanted to have
one, or he wanted
00:05:03
to have some sort of intimate
relationship with a woman. He was always talking
to boys who had girlfriends,
00:05:11
and he seemed to be
jealous of them. [intriguing music] - Now, of course,
this is teenage years,
00:05:20
so hormones are racing. I don't find anything
particularly unusual in this, but clearly, this is
somebody who isn't forming
00:05:30
relationships with girls. So these questions
that he's asking, which the other boys are
finding somewhat odd,
00:05:38
are they going to get him
past the finishing post, if you like, and get
him a girlfriend?
00:05:44
ARDAM AFZAL: He
talked to girls, whether they have boyfriends
or didn't have boyfriends
00:05:48
and tried to maybe
flirt with them, but he'd go from asking
them about themselves
00:05:52
to insulting them. He thought it was
funny or that they were enjoying
the conversations,
00:05:58
but they weren't. And they'd often tell him that. [grim music] He then went from talking
to people to sending
00:06:09
different messages to people. I say this definitely
showed escalation. He'd send messages to these
girls who were younger than him
00:06:17
that they're very pretty,
and the girls were a mixture of ages from 17 to 18.
00:06:24
JULIA SHAW: He would send
these messages about how-- initially, how
beautiful they were,
00:06:29
how much he liked them,
how they were basically these princesses. [notification chime]
00:06:36
And then if they didn't respond
within one or two messages, he would get aggressive.
00:06:40
[notification chime] And he would slut-shame them. He would say,
actually, you're ugly,
00:06:50
or, basically, you
don't deserve me, or use some other
kind of technique where he was either nagging.
00:06:55
So maybe he was
intentionally trying to bring down
their self-esteem in order to make them more
receptive to his advances,
00:07:02
or maybe what's more likely is
he felt rejected very quickly and then got really aggressive.
00:07:07
[notification chime] And so you can see
in this messaging, which is common
for a subset of people
00:07:15
who interact online,
especially a subset of boys, is that you have this
incredible rejection anxiety.
00:07:24
You have someone, a boy,
who is actually very fragile going into this
situation, which they know
00:07:31
is likely to result
in rejection, but they're also
incredibly scared of it. [grim music]
00:07:40
[notification chime] ARDAM AFZAL: He did message
me on social media as well, sending me videos of him kind
of arm-wrestling or things
00:07:49
like that. STUDENT: We've actually
found someone who's actually going to beat him.
00:07:53
Just end it. [boy grunting] [boy chuckling] ARDAM AFZAL: And this
was an attempt
00:07:59
at him trying to show
that he was strong and that he wasn't
like a weak individual.
00:08:03
So not only did he
arm-wrestle people, but then the video
of it would also be sent
00:08:07
around to people like myself. KERRY DAYNES: So he's trying
to show himself as a manly guy.
00:08:14
He's trying to show
himself as somebody who would be desirable,
maybe to women,
00:08:19
but also desirable as a very
manly friend to the other guys at school. [blow thuds]
00:08:26
[boxing machine beeping] But it hints a little
bit at desperation. ARDAM AFZAL: I think he wanted
to give off the impression
00:08:40
of this sort of macho man who
went to the gym, but as far as I can tell, he didn't.
00:08:44
Actually, I think
he was more isolated individually with his devices. [grim music]
00:09:00
Nasen had an unhealthy
obsession with girls at college, and he
tried to message girls
00:09:04
that he didn't know. And I would say to him, why
are you messaging these girls?
00:09:08
And it was all just sort
of I'm just talking to her or it's just a message.
00:09:12
He did reveal to me,
I want a girlfriend, and there'd be lots
of girls that he'd
00:09:16
tried to do this with. KERRY DAYNES:
To put it bluntly, Nasen Saadi he has no game
when he's talking to women.
00:09:25
He's got no ability
to perspective take, so he's not
empathizing with them.
00:09:32
He's not understanding
how that communication is going to be received by them.
00:09:38
He's just saying,
you're pretty. Do you want to go out? Do you want my number?
00:09:42
So it smacks of desperation. And eventually, that
level of rejection, combined with his
lack of self-awareness
00:09:52
about it, his understanding
of why that is, has got to be really quite
stinging for an adolescent boy.
00:10:00
ARDAM AFZAL: Nasen sent
me a message saying, she probably thinks I'm ugly. She didn't reply to me.
00:10:06
Maybe he was looking for some
sort of sympathy from me, and he was hoping that I'd
say, you know, you're not ugly.
00:10:13
JULIA SHAW: That, to me,
is perhaps actually quite an honest
thing to say, but it also shows a real
lack of self-confidence.
00:10:21
And often the most toxic kind
of aggression and grandiosity come from that
vulnerability where
00:10:28
you don't feel good enough,
and so you're going to take it out on somebody else.
00:10:31
And also, it could
lead to a hopelessness in terms of feeling that
girls will never be into you.
00:10:39
So I'm going to have
to play the numbers, just message lots and lots of
girls and see if anybody bites.
00:10:44
And then if they do bite,
maybe also being mean to them, because, well, you know, what's
wrong with you for liking me?
00:10:49
And so that's where that
hostile vulnerability is really horrible
and really manifests
00:10:56
as violence towards
others, even if it's just psychological violence. [grim music]
00:11:04
ARDAM AFZAL: He'd message
from an Instagram account that I originally
read as N skillz.
00:11:08
I later found out that it was
actually Nasen Saadi killz, and it was his initials,
NS, and then killz.
00:11:15
- Setting up an account with
a fake name, or in this case a pseudonym, Nskillz,
which is his initials.
00:11:24
But it totally depends
on what he did with it and why he created it. Hiding behind the anonymity of
this kind of internet interface
00:11:33
is going to embolden
him, especially if he has these thoughts
in his head and he feels
00:11:39
rejected and now he is
using this to act out. [grim music] PIPPA AFZAL: One
of Nasen's messages
00:11:57
said that he had seen
her getting off the bus, and he gave a specific
time that this girl
00:12:05
had got off at the station. And he said that he
knew her routine, and he also asked her,
how was school today?
00:12:14
That is extremely threatening
in a message to a girl, who is still a girl. KERRY DAYNES: When somebody
sends a message saying,
00:12:25
I know your routine,
there's one of two things happening here. This could be somebody
that we sometimes
00:12:31
refer to as a howler, so this
is somebody that makes lots of noise in messages, is very
intimidating in messages,
00:12:41
but it is all noise. There are actually no action. Or it could be that he really
does know their routine,
00:12:51
in which case that takes him
into a category that we call "hunters," because,
clearly, that would involve
00:12:58
stalking a woman
in order to ascertain her movements and her routine. ARDAM AFZAL: Nasen messaged
my sister, calling her pretty
00:13:08
and saying that
she was attractive and that he wanted
to get to know her. [notification chime]
00:13:13
I then messaged Nasen and said,
you know, this is my sister. Don't message her.
00:13:17
She's 17. Please stay away. Later, Nasen showed up
at her place of work and actually followed
her around her workplace
00:13:26
and harassed her and asked
her questions like, are you Ardam's sister? Can I be your boyfriend?
00:13:33
Can I have your number? Which she ignored and then
actually tried to hide from him within her work.
00:13:41
I said, what are you doing,
going and talking to my sister and harassing her
at her place of work?
00:13:46
And he replied with that
he'd done nothing wrong. He didn't see any issues
with what he had done.
00:13:51
So I thought I'd go
and speak to his parents and let them know
what he'd been doing.
00:13:58
When Nasen arrived
at the house, the first thing he said to me
as he got out of his car
00:14:03
was, I'll kill you. PIPPA AFZAL: I was able
to get some really good advice from my friend who
was telling me,
00:14:12
don't let your daughter
go out on her own. Make sure you inform
her school and
00:14:16
her workplace of this
man, what he looks like, what he's been doing. [grim music]
00:14:31
I felt that they were treating
it as a malicious communication offense, and although
he was committing
00:14:37
that, he was also
committing stalking and harassment as well. I don't know how many other
young girls he did that to,
00:14:48
but certainly he
was making girls feel uncomfortable
on a daily basis. JULIA SHAW: There's
so many people who have,
00:14:59
arguably, sounded the alarm,
and yet insufficient action is happening. And so he's able to continue
to harass these women and girls
00:15:09
and get away with it. And so I could
also see how that would embolden somebody
who is feeling rejected,
00:15:15
is feeling aggressive. He might go, huh, what
else can I get away with? [resonant music]
00:15:27
PIPPA AFZAL: I went
into the police station and met with a detective
who had spoken to Nasen.
00:15:35
She explained to me
that he understood that his behavior was
wrong and he seemed really
00:15:40
remorseful for his behavior. But it's so frustrating. That's what it is.
00:15:47
It's just so frustrating that
they choose to believe him. He was stalking and harassing
my daughter and my son as well.
00:15:57
And I said to her that
my biggest concern was one day turning on the T-- turning on the television
and see that he had hurt
00:16:14
someone or killed someone. [grim music] - Nasen Saadi went
to university. He started
a criminology degree.
00:16:38
A police officer came
to Nasen Saadi's university and gave a guest
lecture of a question
00:16:44
and answer sort of forum. And he started asking questions
on different police forces--
00:16:52
how do different police
forces work together? Do they share information? And that's the question
where it's not
00:16:59
just curiosity about crime. That's a very
practical question. - In the context
of a criminology course,
00:17:09
which I have taught, it's
usual to ask weird questions. The reason why in criminology
classes and criminal psychology
00:17:17
classes we discuss
these kinds of issues and we specifically allow
these kinds of weird questions
00:17:21
is because, by understanding
how people do things and why they do things,
we can prevent them.
00:17:27
So the whole point
of these courses is that you have
these students who are interested
in preventing crime.
00:17:34
HANNAH KNIGHT: When Nasen
Saadi was asking questions, it was about DNA. It was about how police
can track DNA, or maybe
00:17:43
how they cannot find DNA. The university lecturer
looked around the room, and all the other university
students looked a bit confused.
00:17:52
But he kept pressing,
and he wanted to know, and he wanted to know now. It did prompt his university
lecturer to say to him,
00:18:00
you're not planning
a murder, are you? - Nasen Saadi is displaying in
front of his whole criminology
00:18:09
set and lecturers, who are
police officers no less, his rather morbid and lurid
fascination with all things
00:18:19
homicide, so this is somebody
who is hiding in plain sight. [grim music] - I saw a story of him going
into one of the dorm rooms that
00:18:39
was full of girls
with a water gun and spraying girls that he
didn't know while at Greenwich.
00:18:48
- This is the kind
of thing that you might expect boys to do,
having a laugh at university.
00:18:54
But take into account
the behavior that goes before it and his
lack of relationship
00:19:01
with these girls that
he's squirting with water, and also the fact
that he's filming this
00:19:06
and he puts it online. So he's wanting
to humiliate these girls. This is not a joke.
00:19:14
This is him escalating
to behaviors that are intended
to punish the girls that are not interested in him.
00:19:25
JULIA SHAW:
By posting this video and getting this
positive response, or what he perceives to be
a positive response,
00:19:30
he is potentially
reinforcing the idea that this is acceptable
or even desirable
00:19:36
behavior, that this
is the kind of thing he can do and get away with. And there's a sinister
part of this,
00:19:42
which is that it feels
a little bit, in the context of this case, like a test run.
00:19:49
[stirring music] - At the start of 2024,
around January, that's when his search
history started looking
00:20:06
into the types
of knives and different types of high-profile murders. He was buying weapons,
really big zombie knives
00:20:15
he had in his possession. - He had posted a picture
of them on his Snapchat. I think they were
a mixture of small knives
00:20:23
as well as slightly bigger
knives such as machetes or those kind of weapons. - Nasen Saadi has this
fascination with knives.
00:20:32
He's not reading social
cues as normal people would, and he is sort of bragging
about the fact that he has them
00:20:39
and that he loves them. And probably
the people around him are going, that's pretty weird.
00:20:45
But in his mind, it's probably
a sign of, look at me. Look at the strength. - His mom and dad had
actually found these weapons
00:20:53
and taken them away from him. Well, that goes from
a morbid curiosity to your parents are
actually concerned
00:21:00
you're going to use that. If you're having to physically
remove a weapon from him
00:21:04
because you don't know what
he's going to do with it, I think that speaks
a lot about a person.
00:21:08
JULIA SHAW: Right
now, we're just down this path of red flags,
and you can trace it.
00:21:14
It's just this clear pathway. [grim music] - An example of some
of the messages
00:21:29
that he sent to young girls-- WOMAN 1: "Why are you
talking like a roadman for?"
00:21:33
WOMAN 2: "Oh, shut up." WOMAN 1: "I'm your boyfriend." WOMAN 2: "Some weirdo."
00:21:39
WOMAN 1: "Ugly [bleep]" WOMAN 2: "Get a life." WOMAN 1: "Shh."
00:21:44
- At this point, we can see
that he is using much more aggressive language
much earlier,
00:21:49
so he almost comes in with
this, I'm going to be rejected. I'm just going
to get my slurring
00:21:54
as quickly as possible. WOMAN 1: "Do you
have a boyfriend?" WOMAN 2: "Yes, I do."
00:21:59
WOMAN 1: "I doubt it." WOMAN 2: "You little gremlin." WOMAN 1: "You [bleep]"
00:22:05
WOMAN 2: "Go bed. You got school tomorrow." WOMAN 1: "Good night, babe."
00:22:09
[grim music] - He's just surrounded by this
invisibility where people don't
00:22:15
want anything to do with him. And so I think he's
internalizing that, and it's making him
increasingly aggressive,
00:22:22
increasingly angry,
and importantly, increasingly misogynistic. WOMAN 1: "You still
haven't blocked me, clown."
00:22:31
WOMAN 2: "Thanks
for reminding me." JULIA SHAW: Occasionally
he even makes fun of them
00:22:37
for not blocking
him and for allowing him to continue to harass them,
almost as if it's their failure
00:22:44
that he has shown up
and they didn't immediately lock him out, even though
if they do lock him out,
00:22:47
he might show up
somewhere else. WOMAN 1: "I feel sorry
for your parents. They should have
had an abortion."
00:22:52
WOMAN 2: "Same. They got the most beautiful
[bleep] on this earth. Hide your dad."
00:22:57
WOMAN 1: "You would
have more followers if you were beautiful." WOMAN 2: "I removed
them all, babe."
00:23:03
WOMAN 1: "Baby." - Oh, my God. - At this point, I think he
has lost all respect for women,
00:23:13
and he is, most importantly,
normalized rejection. He's just seeing closed
doors everywhere.
00:23:21
He tries his luck a little bit
and then expects rejection, is rejected, and then he
does it again and does
00:23:26
it again and does it again. It's a downward spiral where
you can see that he is just
00:23:31
getting more and more
frustrated, more and more verbally aggressive
towards women,
00:23:35
and you can just
see it descending and ascending and descending. [grim music] - By March 2024, months
before the murder,
00:23:57
that's when he started
looking up locations. He started looking at the
different types of towns,
00:24:06
and is it easier
to get away with murder if you do it in another town? By April 2024, he was
looking at sandy beaches,
00:24:16
pebbly beaches; which are
easier to run on, sandy beaches or pebbly beaches? And once he landed on sand,
then he landed on Bournemouth.
00:24:26
And that's when it
started to go from there. [stirring music] By the 21st of May, he traveled
from his home in Croydon, and
00:24:51
he got a train to Bournemouth. And CCTV showed him
wearing almost a disguise. He was wearing
sunglasses, but he
00:24:59
was wearing them on the train
while he was sat on the train. He then got a taxi
from the train station
00:25:06
over to his hotel. The CCTV caught Nasen Saadi
arriving with his bag. He went to the cinema.
00:25:17
He decided to watch
a horror movie. It involved knives, and it
also involved the victims
00:25:23
trying to run away. [eerie music] KERRY DAYNES: When
he's rejected by women and when he's
complained about or
00:25:36
he is put down, as he would
see it, by people in his world, he feels very
small, and he feels
00:25:43
very powerless and worthless. But when he starts
to think of himself as the aggressor
in a slasher movie,
00:25:53
when he starts to think of
himself as this very cunning, predatory killer, he
starts to feel big,
00:26:00
and he starts to feel powerful. So for him, this fantasy
life is something that is thrilling and exciting.
00:26:09
This is a salve, really,
to low self-esteem. [grim music] HANNAH KNIGHT:
On the day of the murder,
00:26:24
around half past 11:00
in the morning, Nasen Saadi ended up visiting a shop. It was quite an unremarkable
trip to the shop.
00:26:31
He just bought himself
a drink and a bag of crisps. [resonant music] Amie gray was a much loved
woman in the Dorset community.
00:26:50
She was married. She had a wife. She had a daughter, and she
has a very loving family.
00:26:58
And something that she
was really ingrained in was the Dorset Futsal Club
that she soon became a part of.
00:27:07
And not only was she a team
member, she was the coach. [ominous music] Amie actually had
sport practice
00:27:30
that night, so I think she
was running a little bit late. So Leanne got
to the beach first.
00:27:37
They went down
to the beach together, and they set up
a little campfire. And they had a picnic,
and they were just enjoying
00:27:44
the moonlit beach as friends. You can see on CCTV
there fire, and that indicates where they were sat.
00:28:00
About 11:38 PM, that was
when Nasen Saadi was seen to step onto the promenade. That was when he now made his
beeline to Leanne and Amie.
00:28:16
Leanne described
this young boy. He walked over
to them, and they both looked up at him as if he
was going to ask a question.
00:28:24
And she recalled Amie
almost smiling at him, and the next thing
Leanne remembered
00:28:29
was him lunging towards her. Now, she didn't know at that
point she'd been stabbed,
00:28:34
but Amie was shouting
at him to get off of her. [woman screams] And that's when he turned
his attention to Amie.
00:28:43
And Amie started running down
the beach, and he pursued her. He's running after her,
and, inevitably, they meet.
00:28:53
And he stabs her
over and over again. While this is happening,
Leanne, Amie's friend,
00:29:00
ran towards the promenade. She ran towards the light,
and she thought someone would be able to help them.
00:29:08
By the time she got
to the promenade, the attacker had already
finished with Amie.
00:29:13
He was content. He'd already killed her. So he pursued Leanne again. He ran to the promenade,
and he started
00:29:24
stabbing her over and over. And Leanne said the only
thing she could do was turn her back to him.
00:29:30
She said she didn't
want to look at him. She didn't want
to look at his face.
00:29:34
She ended up having over 20
stab wounds all over her back, and, miraculously,
she survived.
00:29:48
[stirring music] The police absolutely scoured
the beach and the cliff top for days trying to find
the murder weapon,
00:30:09
but they just never found it. They never found the knife. They never found the clothes.
00:30:13
They never found any forensics. So all they had was
CCTV, and they were able to backtrack from there.
00:30:26
CCTV showed the killer going
towards the zigzag steps, and then it cut off from there.
00:30:33
It was almost a blind spot. They lost him. But he was wearing
a distinctive jumper,
00:30:40
and it was a dark jumper with
a gray sort of white stripe across the front. And that was how they were
able to trace the killer
00:30:47
through his movements. And it was when they were
reviewing that CCTV footage on the day
of the murder, they saw
00:30:55
a man wearing the exact same
hoodie going into a Nisa store. And when police went
to that Nisa store
00:31:02
and tracked the card
transaction, they found it
to be Nasen Saadi. [grim music] OFFICER 1: Hands on your head!
00:31:18
Walk down the stairs slowly! Keep walking! Keep walking! Stop! Turn around! Walk backwards!
00:31:30
OFFICER 2: Hands on your head! OFFICER 1: Walk backwards
towards my voice! Walk backwards!
00:31:35
Keep walking! Keep walking! Bring him out. - Out, out, out! Come out, come out, come out!
00:31:42
OFFICER 1: Get on--
get on your knees. Down on your knees! Down on your knees! - Look at me!
00:31:47
OFFICER 1: Stay there. Do not move. Nasen, you're under arrest
on suspicion of murder.
00:31:52
[grim music] - He was facing two
serious charges, one for murder of Amie
Gray, and attempted
00:32:21
murder of Leanne Miles. DETECTIVE: From
the start, we've said this is about us getting
answers, finding the truth.
00:32:28
- The only thing I noticed is
he appeared to me harmless. DETECTIVE: It's about trying
to establish how Amie died,
00:32:37
how Leanne was
attacked, and why. - Emotionally, he
appeared detached as to the reality he's facing.
00:32:46
DETECTIVE: There's
lots of things here that indicate that you are
the person responsible.
00:32:51
So I really think you've got
some important information here, you've got some
answers here that can help us
00:32:57
deal with what's taken place. - I haven't got any. - He never stays still.
00:33:02
You can see he's fidgeting. He's, you know, picking his
beards and then standing up.
00:33:10
His concentration level
is very, very low. DETECTIVE: I think
what's preventing
00:33:15
you is the fact that,
as the evidence shows, you are the male that is
responsible for the murder and
00:33:21
attempted murder. You were on the beach
that night. - But the beaches are,
like, popular places.
00:33:31
Many people-- on the CCTV that
you showed me, there were many, like, people walking.
00:33:36
It's not just one person. DETECTIVE: Is
there anything you think we haven't understood?
00:33:40
- I think just because some-- someone is wearing the, um-- the same clothes, um,
is circumstantial.
00:33:51
[grim music] - Talking about the fact
that his clothes are sort of common clothes,
that lots of people
00:34:00
wear hoodies, that it's
circumstantial evidence, which feels like a big word
to use in this context.
00:34:05
You could say
maybe he's putting his criminology degree to use. DETECTIVE: Do you think there's
anything we've not talked about
00:34:11
or asked you about
that's important that you need to tell us? - I'm just saying I'm wrongly
accused of mistaken identity.
00:34:20
And mistakes can happen. And I'm just-- I'm not responsible. JULIA SHAW: I think what's more
important here is that he's
00:34:30
maybe trying to use
that cleverness to show, I know what I'm doing here. I know what you're
doing here, and
00:34:37
I'm going to be clever
in this situation. It's like he's trying
to manage the situation.
00:34:41
DETECTIVE: There's
lots of things here that indicate that you are
the person responsible.
00:34:45
- And-- um, I'm
not responsible. DETECTIVE: OK. - And I have no reason to
attack someone for no reason.
00:34:54
DETECTIVE: Have you been
motivated by something else? - No comment. I wouldn't attack
someone for no reason.
00:35:03
JULIA SHAW: In the interview
with the police, he says, I have no reason to
attack someone for no reason.
00:35:08
And what he's trying to say
is, what business do I have attacking someone on a beach?
00:35:12
And you've got the wrong guy. But you could interpret
that differently, which is I have no reason to
attack someone for no reason,
00:35:20
because his mind maybe he
goes, but I have a reason. DETECTIVE: Is there
something else
00:35:25
going on that will
be an explanation as to what's then happened? - I have no comment.
00:35:30
DETECTIVE: Your interests? - That's related
to my university. DETECTIVE: Your views
towards females?
00:35:42
- No comment. JULIA SHAW: Overall,
what we have here in the interrogation
is this person who
00:35:48
is juggling his
intelligence but also his real
attitudes that he's trying to probably conceal.
00:35:55
KERRY DAYNES: I
think that you only have to look at the manosphere
that we have currently online,
00:36:01
and you have to look at the
growth of the incel culture to really understand that
there are a lot of young boys
00:36:10
who feel rejected
and humiliated by their inability to connect
with the opposite sex.
00:36:18
[grim music] - I was called to do a photo
lineup of recognition. Seeing that and the squareness
of the shoulders and
00:36:36
his facial expression, I was
100% the photo of number six was the man that I
saw on the cliffs.
00:36:46
[grim music] HANNAH KNIGHT:
At the start of the trial, the prosecution said that
Nasen Saadi wanted to see how
00:37:03
it would feel to take a life. He wanted to feel powerful. And they said he wanted to see
what it'd be like to maim,
00:37:11
to butcher, to hurt someone. They said maybe he didn't
like seeing people happily
00:37:19
enjoying their lives
and he wanted to take that away from them. - I think that you
only have to look
00:37:32
at the numbers
of young men and boys who struggle with social
connection and interaction and
00:37:41
communication, and they're
being really groomed into believing that women
and girls are mocking them or
00:37:50
laughing at them,
and that we don't want to connect with them. We want to reject them
for our own nefarious purposes.
00:38:00
Most incels, young
men, are lonely, and they don't subscribe
to violence towards the sex
00:38:08
that they are attracted to. But increasingly, that
is what we're seeing, and I think that when we
take it to his n-th degree,
00:38:18
we have the kind
of behaviors that we see displayed by Nasen Saadi. HANNAH KNIGHT: The pathologist
gave extensive evidence
00:38:27
on Amie Gray's exact injuries. She had 10 knife
wounds in total. She had wounds to her
arms, to her chest.
00:38:35
One had even
penetrated her heart. Leanne Miles was covered
with 20 knife wounds,
00:38:44
and both her and Amie
had defense injuries, which showed they both tried
to fight their way out of this.
00:38:53
One of Leanne's
injuries had actually caused her lung to collapse. By the 18th of December,
2024, the jury
00:39:01
came back with
their guilty verdicts after just over five hours-- guilty for both
the murder of Amie gray
00:39:09
and the attempted
murder of Leanne miles. [grim music] In his defense,
the barrister described him
00:39:27
as a social misfit of sorts. He mostly had
a problem with women. He didn't like it that he
wasn't recognized by women.
00:39:33
He didn't have girlfriends. He didn't have friends. And then this sort of hatred
began to build, I suppose,
00:39:39
and then this is what ended
up happening as a result. - His defense barrister said
Saadi recognized his guilt
00:39:45
and demonstrated a willingness
to receive therapy. He had significantly
low esteem and
00:39:50
a general sense of inadequacy. - He later said, no
one ever recognized me for when I did good things.
00:39:57
They only recognized
when I did bad things. - "Infamy became
a valid goal in itself."
00:40:13
- Amie's family made
the decision that they wanted to sit in the courtroom. They didn't want to sit
in the public gallery.
00:40:20
They wanted to look
at Nasen Saadi. JUSTICE CUTTS: "You admitted
your guilt for the first time
00:40:26
to Dr. Ruthenberg. The clear evidence is
that you planned to kill and went to Bournemouth
to do so.
00:40:32
I am satisfied from reading
the report of Dr. Ruthenberg that you chose Amie
gray and Leanne Miles
00:40:39
because you have a grievance
against society as a whole and women in particular.
00:40:45
No doubt you thought you had
committed the perfect crime." - It's interesting to me that
there's these two components.
00:40:52
One is the desire
to commit this crime and get away with it. And then, on the other hand,
there's the choice of targets.
00:41:00
I think the one which is
whom he's going to murder and choosing to murder
women, specifically women who
00:41:06
are isolated, women
who are on their own, is almost certainly rooted
in his attitudes towards women,
00:41:12
that they are worth
less than men. And so he has a real
hatred and aggression towards women that he's able
to act out in that moment.
00:41:18
On the other hand, it's maybe
desire to test himself, to see, could I get away with murder?
00:41:25
And I think it's quite likely
that he wanted both of them, and they come from
different parts of him.
00:41:33
KERRY DAYNES: This
is somebody who wasn't able to have the sexual
experiences that he wanted
00:41:40
in life, and so he
decided to replace those with violent experiences. - "Why did you do as you did?
00:41:48
Dr. Ruthenberg's report
shed some light on that. You have experienced difficulty
in your life socializing and
00:41:57
communicating with others by
the reason of the fact you have some autistic traits,
although you do not have
00:42:03
autistic spectrum disorder. It seems that you have felt
humiliated and embarrassed
00:42:10
by repeated rejections
or perceived rejections of any advances you have made,
particularly towards girls,
00:42:18
which over time has
resulted in a deeply suppressed rage
directed towards society
00:42:24
and women in particular." - Nasen Saadi, in my opinion,
had this deeply held rage,
00:42:31
as the judge pointed
out, but he had created it entirely himself. He was completely, in his mind,
a victim of circumstances,
00:42:40
but those circumstances
were firmly created one aggressive
message at a time by himself.
00:42:49
So he built himself this
prison, this isolation that he didn't have to live in.
00:42:55
Instead of trying
to deescalate those feelings, he instead took it out
on these two women.
00:43:01
- "You developed an obsessional
fascination with violence, horror, crime, and the mind
of those who kill,
00:43:09
and a deep-seated urge
for revenge against society." KERRY DAYNES: Nasen
Saadi, I believe,
00:43:15
wanted to become
a serial killer, and had he got away with his
attacks on Amie and Leanne,
00:43:21
that is potentially what
he might have become. JUSTICE CUTTS: "In
Dr. Ruthenberg's view,
00:43:28
you identified yourself
with the mind of a killer because you wished to feel
the power of which you
00:43:33
felt society had robbed you by
rejecting and humiliating you. The idea of being recognized
as a dangerous killer
00:43:41
became appealing to you." - I think the society that we
live in has almost put them
00:43:49
on this pop culture pedestal. Even though they are seen
as aberrant and perverse,
00:43:59
they're also viewed as sexy,
even, sometimes, on occasion, and people of note.
00:44:07
And I think that that is very
attractive to young men who doubt themselves, doubt
their place in the world,
00:44:17
or inadequate. [grim music] - "You have found life
difficult by reason of your autistic traits.
00:44:35
I accept Dr.
Ruthenberg's conclusion that this impaired
your judgment, and that once you
had considered
00:44:41
it appropriate to kill another,
you would have seen it through. Nasen Saadi, for the murder
of Amie Gray,
00:44:48
I sentence you
to life imprisonment. You will serve a minimum term
of 39 years and 64 days."
00:44:57
[solemn music] - Nasen Saadi has not
been able to fulfill his loverboy fantasies
in the real world,
00:45:08
and he feels powerless
as a result of that. And who has the power over him? Well, of course,
it's women and girls.
00:45:15
They have the power
to reject him. They have the power to make
him feel small about himself,
00:45:22
and he wants to take that
power and control back. So he has identified being
a killer as a way to do this.
00:45:32
He thinks that
being a killer is going to be the ultimate
experience of dominating and
00:45:40
having power over
a woman, and I think that the girls
on the beach represented all the women
and girls in the world
00:45:48
at that point for Nasen Saadi. [theme music]