00:00:03
[holiday music] Mississippi, 2010. For a student named
Carmen Sanders, the coming Christmas
holiday seemed
00:00:12
like a wonderful time of year. LACY BATES: Carmen
was especially happy during the holidays.
00:00:19
And Christmas, she loved to
spend time with her loved ones. NANCY GRACE: But soon,
holiday cheer quickly
00:00:24
turns into holiday fear. [ominous holiday music] I tell people
this all the time--
00:00:30
don't leave your doors
unlocked, especially during the Christmas time. NANCY GRACE: A senseless
murder by a deranged killer.
00:00:43
And there is a
large butcher's knife sticking through the comforter. She was still warm, and
her eyes were wide open.
00:00:52
Those eyes, the
last thing they saw was the person who killed her. What kind of
monster would attack
00:00:57
this beautiful young woman? She was screaming, he
killed my daughter. I know he killed my baby.
00:01:04
He was a cold-blooded killer. LACY BATES: It really takes
a special kind of evil
00:01:07
to be able to do
something like that. [theme music] ["WE WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS"
PLAYING]
00:01:39
Hello, I'm Nancy Grace. This is "The
Christmas Killings." For many, the first
week of the new year
00:01:46
is a peaceful time to relax. Christmas is finally over. Santa has come and gone.
00:01:53
The turkey served,
presents handed out, in-laws heading home. But for those who work
during the holiday,
00:02:00
Christmas can arrive
a little later. On January 8, 2010, 22-year-old
Carmen Sanders of Ridgeland,
00:02:09
Mississippi, is on
her way to celebrate a late Christmas with a friend. LACY BATES: Carmen
was especially happy
00:02:19
during the holidays. And Christmas, she loved to
spend time with her loved ones.
00:02:23
And on the way to meet
her friend for dinner, she stopped by her
apartment because she wanted
00:02:28
to get her friend's
Christmas present that was still under the Christmas tree. She wanted to just run in
and grab it real quick.
00:02:35
[tense music] But her friend would
never get that gift. [ominous music] NANCY GRACE: Three hours
after Carmen races back
00:02:47
to her apartment to grab
her friend's Christmas gift, a 911 call is placed. [line ringing]
00:03:12
[sirens wailing] ["o christmas tree" playing] BRYAN BUCKLEY: It was
approximately 11:15 to 11:30
00:03:23
PM on the night of January 8. I went out to the
scene there, just because this was very unusual,
especially for Ridgeland.
00:03:30
As I'm driving there,
Christmas decorations are still up on the roads
as you're driving by.
00:03:35
And it's just an unusual
time to be driving out to know the scene of a murder. LACY BATES: When the
police department arrived
00:03:41
to the apartment complex,
they noticed a man standing outside, flagging them down.
00:03:46
The man pointed
to apartment 242. He was a Black male
by the name of Terry. According to Terry, someone
has broken into his apartment
00:03:57
and killed his girlfriend. [ominous music] Once the officers
received the information,
00:04:03
they go on high alert. They draw up their duty
weapon, enter the apartment. They don't know if there's
a killer still inside.
00:04:14
So they continue
in the apartment. And they notice
that the Christmas tree was still up inside.
00:04:22
FRANK DILLARD: The
apartment seemed very messy. They noticed that clothes
strewn all around.
00:04:27
They noticed that dishes were
everywhere, that the drawers were pulled out. As the officers
entered the bedroom,
00:04:40
they saw something
that was very grisly. They saw a lady
wrapped on a blanket with a knife impaled through
the blanket to her chest.
00:04:48
[eerie music] The only thing that
stopped the knife from going completely
through the floor
00:04:53
was the concrete floor itself. So whoever stabbed this person
did it with a lot of force.
00:05:00
[dramatic music] She had multiple stab
wounds through her. FRANK DILLARD: Being stabbed is
one of the worst ways to die.
00:05:08
Person's up close
and personal to you. The officers happened to
locate another knife, a steak
00:05:15
knife with the tip broken off. The officer checked her
vitals, and she was dead.
00:05:25
But she was still
warm to the touch. That told me that she had
not been dead too long.
00:05:31
BRYAN BUCKLEY: She was a
young African-American girl. The first thing I noticed
was her eyes were open.
00:05:37
It occurred to me that those
eyes, the last thing they saw was the person who killed her.
00:05:42
The victim's clothes
were slightly loose. That tells me that someone
tried to sexually assault her.
00:05:49
NANCY GRACE: The officer
noticed that the killer uses dishwashing
liquid to literally
00:05:54
try and clean away evidence. BRYAN BUCKLEY: Some criminals
know that dishwashing detergent,
00:05:59
things of that nature,
it'll make sure that it's almost
impossible to get fingerprints off of anything.
00:06:04
It can affect the
DNA on it as well. FRANK DILLARD: This tells me
that this person has either
00:06:08
been arrested before and don't
want their prints lifted, and that they're probably
a seasoned criminal.
00:06:16
BRYAN BUCKLEY: The responding
officer backed out, secured the scene, waited for
the crime scene unit to arrive.
00:06:21
[faint sirens wailing] CSU, they arrived,
processed the scene. [faint chatter] NANCY GRACE: The victim
ID'd as Carmen Sanders,
00:06:32
a bright and
beautiful young woman who's been working hard for a
future that now will never come.
00:06:41
LACY BATES: Carmen
was 22 years old, and she was a very outgoing
and ambitious and friendly
00:06:47
individual. She always had a big
smile on her face. She was studying to be a lab
technician at Mississippi State
00:06:55
University. She was working two
jobs part-time to pay for her school and her rent.
00:07:03
And she was trying to
do it all by herself. NANCY GRACE: Carmen's been
living with her boyfriend,
00:07:08
Terry, who makes that
911 call after he gets home from work 11:00 PM. LACY BATES: Terry
was working two jobs.
00:07:17
He was working as a
substitute teacher at the Jackson Public Schools. And in the evening,
he would work
00:07:22
at a restaurant as a line cook. In the beginning of Carmen and
Terry's relationship, you know,
00:07:28
he was charming. She really wanted
to be with him. The officers realized
that Carmen's car
00:07:39
is in the parking lot. They noticed that her purse
was on the passenger seat with her cell phone inside.
00:07:46
And so that told them that
she wasn't planning on being in the apartment very long.
00:07:50
NANCY GRACE: Terry's
mother arrives at the apartment complex. Officers accompany both of
them to the Ridgeland Police
00:07:57
Department. Carmen Sanders' parents arrive
at the police station as well. CASSANDRA DOTSON: I went
to talk to Carmen's mom.
00:08:05
I let her know that,
yes, she had passed. And she screamed out in,
uh, the most awful scream,
00:08:15
and she fell to the floor. And her father-- of Carmen-- he started grabbing his chest.
00:08:23
And so I asked our dispatcher
to call for medical assistance. This is very hard
to see a mother
00:08:38
and father in this position. FRANK DILLARD: I can
still, to this day, hear the halls filling
up with this lady
00:08:48
screaming about her baby. It's a terrible and
heart wrenching moment for a family when they realize
they've lost their child
00:08:57
forever, that they
will never have another Christmas, New
Year's, or Thanksgiving
00:09:03
with their daughter ever again. This is the darkest Christmas
imaginable for Carmen's family.
00:09:16
NANCY GRACE: Carmen's mother
immediately tells police who she thinks is responsible.
00:09:21
She was crying, and she was
screaming that Terry did this, Terry did this. CASSANDRA DOTSON: She went
on to tell me that Carmen
00:09:28
and Terry were having issues. He's having people at the house
that are drinking and smoking.
00:09:34
She felt that she was
being disrespected. LACY BATES: Carmen
was very frustrated
00:09:40
that Terry was constantly having
people over and playing games and drinking and being loud.
00:09:48
And so she would just
go to another room so she could focus
on her studies. NANCY GRACE: Carmen's
mother tells investigators
00:10:01
her daughter's been
on the verge of making major changes in her life. She was about to leave
the apartment she
00:10:07
shares with boyfriend Terry. They were in the process of
trying to get her another place.
00:10:15
FRANK DILLARD: Carmen's
mom told Carmen not to tell Terry that she was moving out.
00:10:20
He might get upset
and do something to her, maybe even hurt her. NANCY GRACE: Over
the holidays, Carmen
00:10:26
reconnects with an old
boyfriend named Brad, who she met at Mississippi State. LACY BATES: Once he
left Mississippi State,
00:10:36
they kind of lost
contact with one another. Then one day, he got a call
from her out of the blue.
00:10:42
And that's when she
began explaining to him the relationship with Terry
had become very toxic.
00:10:49
FRANK DILLARD: Once Terry found
out that Carmen was contacting Brad, he became really enraged.
00:10:56
Terry was really jealous,
so jealous that he hacked into her email account. It was a bad Christmas for
Carmen because she wasn't happy.
00:11:12
During the interview,
emotionally, it got me. But it made me stronger
to work harder to try
00:11:16
and find out what happened. Who did this to Carmen? Terry was a prime
suspect at this point.
00:11:23
As the community
was learning details through the news
and the newspaper, the pressure was on
for the detectives
00:11:29
because of the depravity
of the crime to solve it. Tomorrow, Ridgeland
police could
00:11:34
have a better idea
of who stabbed a 22-year-old woman to death. Carmen Sanders was found dead
in her apartment Friday night.
00:11:41
It was this apartment complex
on Pine Knoll Drive in Ridgeland where the police
investigation started.
00:11:47
22-year-old Carmen Sanders
lived here with her boyfriend. Around 11 o'clock
Friday night, he
00:11:53
called police after
finding Sanders stabbed to death in their apartment. Police always look at those
closest to murder victims
00:12:01
for possible suspects. Boyfriend Terry is no exception. Carmen's mother has already
pointed her finger at him,
00:12:09
and what he says on the
911 call raises suspicion. Not good. He basically says, my
PlayStation 3 is missing--
00:12:30
and oh, yeah, my
girlfriend is dead. To me, that sounded
just extremely weird. With a knife that's impaled
into your girlfriend,
00:12:39
wouldn't you just mention
that horrible fact first? BRYAN BUCKLEY: Terry
has a lot of red flags.
00:12:45
You have the 911 call. You have the information
from Carmen's mom about their volatile
relationship,
00:12:51
about Carmen's
plans to move out. CASSANDRA DOTSON: We
had strong feelings that he may have been
involved or knew who
00:12:59
may have committed this crime. It's not looking good for him. [light music] NANCY GRACE: Ridgeland,
Mississippi 2010,
00:13:14
22-year-old Carmen Sanders
hoping for a happy new year. She's breaking up with
her current boyfriend
00:13:20
and looking for a new apartment. She's also reconnecting
with an ex-boyfriend, all
00:13:26
while she studies
to be a lab tech. One week into the
new year, she's murdered by an unknown killer.
00:13:35
Now, Ridgeland Police
Detective Frank Dillard is about to interview
her boyfriend.
00:13:42
FRANK DILLARD: When I went into
the interview room, initially, Terry's mom was
writing the statement.
00:13:49
And I'm wondering,
is she putting it into her words for her son? That's not gonna happen.
00:13:55
I need his words
and his words only. So I asked her if she would
leave while I spoke with him.
00:14:03
He asked me if he
needed an attorney. And before I could reply back,
he said, don't worry about it.
00:14:07
I'm highly surprised Terry is
not asking for an attorney. FRANK DILLARD: I
asked Terry to recount
00:14:36
his activities of the day. And he told me that he
went to work at a job as a substitute teacher.
00:14:43
And after that, he went
to his part-time job as a fry cook at a restaurant. He returned home around
10:30 ish, and that's when
00:14:53
he found Carmen dead. NANCY GRACE: Terry
is showing all the emotion you'd expect from a
shocked and grieving boyfriend.
00:15:37
FRANK DILLARD: He said when
he saw the look on her face, he knew that she was dead.
00:15:42
He realized that the PlayStation
was missing, and at that point, he called 911. I asked him about the 911 call.
00:15:51
Most people, it's
going to be, hey, my girlfriend has been killed. Get over here.
00:15:55
But not this guy. Terry tells us that my
PlayStation is gone. My girlfriend is dead.
00:16:02
This doesn't match up. This sounds and looks
very suspicious. I guess he cared a lot
about his PlayStation.
00:16:28
FRANK DILLARD: I asked
Terry about the problems and the issues
that he and Carmen
00:16:31
had been having, and he
mentioned that gaming was an issue for her. He just did too much of it.
00:16:39
NANCY GRACE: Terry also
invites other gamers to the apartment, which
adds to the tension
00:16:43
between Carmen and him. Detective Dillard
then asks what Terry knows about the
emails Carmen's been
00:16:55
getting from an ex-boyfriend. He said that he was
jealous because he did, in fact, love her.
00:17:48
BRYAN BUCKLEY: So Detective
Dillard kept pressing Terry. He started pressing him about
snooping into the emails,
00:17:54
about the physical
confrontations, about the fights,
about the turmoil. Terry admitted to all of that.
00:18:00
He said, yeah, you're
absolutely right. But I didn't kill her. FRANK DILLARD: About
two hours into talking
00:18:09
to Terry and I realized that
internally, he's hurting. [crying] Terry, on the video, was
very upset, very distraught
00:18:17
about Carmen being murdered. FRANK DILLARD: More
and more, it's looking like Terry's not our guy.
00:18:29
BRYAN BUCKLEY: At the
conclusion of the interview, Terry willingly gives Detective
Dillard DNA, fingerprints,
00:18:36
whatever he wants. But he's not off
the suspect list, not until he's cleared by Frank.
00:18:41
FRANK DILLARD: We got
to wait for the DNA test to return to rule
him out completely.
00:18:48
When the detectives
received the autopsy report, it confirms Carmen
suffers a violent death.
00:18:57
BRYAN BUCKLEY: The cause
of and manner of death was a homicide by knife
and puncture wounds.
00:19:01
She had a total
of 15 stab wounds. The bulk of those came from
a small knife, a steak knife,
00:19:08
and the tip had broken
off inside of her ribs. And then the butcher knife,
there was a few stabs at those.
00:19:17
To me, the chilling
part is after he stabbed her a dozen times and
the knife breaks off,
00:19:23
he's still so angry that he
goes into the other room, gets a butcher knife, comes
back, and keeps stabbing her.
00:19:30
LACY BATES: It really
takes a special kind of evil to be able
to do something like that, to stab
somebody repeatedly, just
00:19:37
inches from their face. NANCY GRACE: The up
close and personal manner of Carmen's murder
tells police the killer
00:19:43
is someone Carmen knew. Detectives have not closed the
book on current boyfriend Terry,
00:19:49
but they also want to
talk to ex-boyfriend Brad. CASSANDRA DOTSON: He spoke
to Carmen the day before she
00:19:58
was found stabbed to death. LACY BATES: As one of the
last people to talk to her,
00:20:03
could he be involved? Was Brad crazy enough
about Carmen to kill her? ["DANCE OF THE SUGAR PLUM FAIRY"
PLAYING]
00:20:21
NANCY GRACE: January 2010,
Ridgeland, Mississippi, police trying to find out who
savagely murdered beautiful
00:20:28
22-year-old Carmen Sanders. The 15 stab wounds she
suffers make the murder seem very personal.
00:20:36
Police rule out current
boyfriend Terry. He has an alibi. Now, Detective Cassandra Dotson
turns her attention to Carmen's
00:20:45
ex-college boyfriend, Brad. FRANK DILLARD: Detective
Dotson is a very seasoned, very astute detective.
00:20:56
She was the first Black
detective for Ridgeland, and I was the first
Black detective.
00:21:02
That always just kind of formed
a little bond between us. LACY BATES: So when Brad
arrives for the interview,
00:21:09
he seems visibly upset
about Carmen's death. But police know that he
could just be a good actor.
00:21:15
[ominous music] He was a very neat,
groomed young man. Appeared to be educated,
well-spoken, articulate.
00:21:48
He was from Gulfport, 2
and 1/2 to three hours away from the Jackson area. He spoke to Carmen
the day before she
00:21:58
was found stabbed to death. They were planning
to see each other, so they were doing more than
just emailing each other.
00:22:58
CASSANDRA DOTSON:
They had spoken about she needed some money. And he sent her a
MoneyGram to Walmart
00:23:04
so that she can get
some gas and do whatever she had to do to her car. And after she picked it
up, she never called him.
00:23:11
He kept calling and texting,
and she never called back. And he said, mm,
she's got my money.
00:23:19
She used me. He became kind of upset. Did Brad get upset and
decided to come down and find
00:23:26
out what happened to his money? CASSANDRA DOTSON: He could
have been angry with her.
00:23:30
He could have come over there,
and he could have killed her. BRYAN BUCKLEY: So Detective
Dotson's interviewing Brad,
00:23:35
but she's a good detective. So she's interviewing him
and looking at his body language, what he has to say.
00:23:41
CASSANDRA DOTSON: He
had a lot of size, quiet at certain moments,
not wanting to believe
00:23:47
that this has happened. Then, he did say, if I had
only just talked to her and told her to just go
on and leave right then,
00:23:55
maybe she would not be dead. He was very emotional. I didn't get a feeling that
he was involved in any of it,
00:24:23
except giving Carmen
aid for his money to try to help her
out with the issues that she would have in that day.
00:24:31
So at this point, it doesn't
seem like Brad is their guy. But they still need
to verify his alibi
00:24:38
and check his phone records,
which could take a day or two. Now we're back at square one.
00:24:45
BRYAN BUCKLEY:
Obviously, the priority is to catch this person. He's very dangerous.
00:24:49
You don't know what's
going to happen again. There was a sense of urgency. NANCY GRACE: Police start
over now that both boyfriends
00:24:55
are seemingly in the clear. They still can't shake the idea
that the murder is personal.
00:25:01
They wonder who
else Carmen knows. That's when they ask Terry
the names of the gamers
00:25:07
who came to the apartment. FRANK DILLARD: And he
gave us two names-- a guy named Tyrone and a
guy named Robert Harvey,
00:25:17
both of whom he works with. CASSANDRA DOTSON: My
information that I was given about Terry's friends
that hung out at his apartment,
00:25:26
there were two males. They constantly game, drink,
and smoke and party there. Frank checks out Tyrone.
00:25:34
Tyrone has an alibi. FRANK DILLARD: As
far as Robert Harvey is concerned, that name, Robert
Harvey, rang a bell with me.
00:25:44
[faint sirens wailing] I went to another detective,
and he confirmed that we had dealt with him before.
00:25:50
I was, in fact, in the car with
him to help him effect a warrant on Robert Harvey
for sexual assault.
00:25:58
It was about a year and a
half, maybe two years prior. We tried a number of
times to try to arrest
00:26:04
him or serve a warrant. We later found that he had
fled and gone to Florida. BRYAN BUCKLEY: The allegation
was that Robert Harvey had lured
00:26:13
a woman over to his apartment. Very nice, very charming. And as soon as she got
inside, he shut the door,
00:26:19
and he turned into a
whole other person. He locked the doors,
ripped her clothing off,
00:26:28
sexually assaulted her. The lady really thought
that she was going to die. BRYAN BUCKLEY: Frank did
a little more digging
00:26:35
into Robert Harvey's
past, and he talked to a local
confidential informant he knew who was a
prostitute in the area.
00:26:42
And she told Frank
that all the girls knew who Robert Harvey was. FRANK DILLARD: She told me that
if, in fact, if you get in a car
00:26:50
or in a room or
whatever with him, you better give him
exactly what he wants. And if you don't, he's
subject to hurt you real bad.
00:26:59
BRYAN BUCKLEY: So
he went to Florida. And by the time they were
able to get him back,
00:27:04
the woman had got
scared and had changed her mind about
cooperating and testifying
00:27:08
against Robert Harvey. LACY BATES: So it appears
that Harvey got away with it and escaped justice.
00:27:16
NANCY GRACE: Detectives
take a close look at Robert Harvey's rap sheet. CASSANDRA DOTSON: He was
no stranger to crime,
00:27:24
and he had been in and out
of jail numerous times. [dramatic music] With pretty lengthy
robberies, assaults.
00:27:33
But there was one that
really stood out-- He has actually killed
a woman in the past.
00:27:40
--murder. This is a massive
"oh, wow" moment. You don't get a bigger
red flag than that.
00:27:51
[suspenseful music] NANCY GRACE: 2010, Ridgeland,
Mississippi, only a few days into the new year, police are
searching for a violent ex-con,
00:28:02
his name, Robert Harvey. He's now the prime suspect
in the vicious murder of a beautiful young
student, Carmen Sanders.
00:28:10
The 22-year-old has been
viciously stabbed over 15 times. Robert Harvey knows the victim.
00:28:17
He's often been at
her apartment playing video games with her boyfriend. When detectives look
at his rap sheet,
00:28:24
they find out he's
killed before. BRYAN BUCKLEY: The prior
homicide was his ex-girlfriend.
00:28:32
He wrapped a telephone
cord around her neck and strangled her to death. Her kids were home.
00:28:38
It was just terribly brutal. LACY BATES: To say this guy was
dangerous was an understatement.
00:28:43
So he's convicted
of manslaughter, and he's sentenced to
20 years behind bars. But he only serves five years.
00:28:51
BRYAN BUCKLEY: It was
in another jurisdiction. And the Mississippi
Department of Corrections
00:28:54
released him due
to overcrowding. LACY BATES: Talk about
a travesty of justice. The fact that he
was released early,
00:29:01
it looked like it
could have potentially led to Carmen's murder. [dramatic music]
00:29:07
NANCY GRACE: Detectives
immediately see both murders have something in common. The killing of his girlfriend
and the murder of Carmen
00:29:15
were both extremely violent. They were violent overkill. So those two things,
it's always a red flag.
00:29:22
I'm thinking if
he's killed before, then maybe he's killed again. NANCY GRACE: In another
odd coincidence,
00:29:28
the name Robert Harvey rings a
bell with Detective Cassandra Dotson. CASSANDRA DOTSON: I said, I know
that name, that name, that name.
00:29:38
And then I said,
oh, that's right. I went to school with his mom. We had the same
birthday, and, uh, we
00:29:44
just called each other sisters. The next morning,
Detective Dotson reaches out to Robert Harvey's mother.
00:29:54
CASSANDRA DOTSON: I told
her we were investigating a murder case of a
young lady, and the name
00:30:00
Robert Harvey came up. And she said, oh, yeah. Robert, my son, he
talked to me about that.
00:30:09
He told me that one of
his friend's girlfriends had been murdered and that she
was stabbed numerous times,
00:30:16
about 20 some times. And she was wrapped
in a blanket, and PlayStation was gone.
00:30:25
Detective Cassandra
Dotson strikes gold with their conversation. None of what Harvey's mom told
her is public information, not
00:30:34
the fact the victim is
stabbed multiple times or that the
PlayStation is stolen.
00:30:39
BRYAN BUCKLEY:
Robert told his mom that a girl had been
murdered down the street
00:30:43
and told her details that were
not released to the public. CASSANDRA DOTSON:
So I asked Carolyn,
00:30:49
would she come and talk with
me and give me an interview? And she said, yeah. NANCY GRACE: Getting
Robert Harvey's mom
00:30:58
officially on the record becomes
a must for Ridgeland detectives. [suspenseful music]
00:31:54
BRYAN BUCKLEY: The mother
is giving Cassandra vital information that
only the killer would know
00:31:58
through her son, Robert Harvey. And, you know, Mama's always
going to love their baby.
00:32:02
And I don't think she
knew that she was putting a nail in the coffin of Robert. CASSANDRA DOTSON: So after
the interview with Carolyn,
00:32:41
I didn't want to just
alert her and make her give him something that
would make him try to flee.
00:32:46
So I didn't say
anything else to her. I did not give in to her that
we were suspecting her son.
00:32:52
And we started moving in on
the information we received. NANCY GRACE: Detectives are
now ready to bring Robert
00:33:03
Harvey in for questioning. FRANK DILLARD: As
luck would have it, Robert had traffic
warrants on him.
00:33:09
Once we knew that, we had a
beat officer to pull him over. Then he was able to be arrested
and brought to our jail.
00:33:32
FRANK DILLARD: I walked into the
interview room and noticed that Robert was really short,
probably about 5' 5, 5' 4,
00:33:39
maybe 150 pounds, if that. And I'm wondering now, is
this guy really a killer? FRANK DILLARD: I'm thinking
now, this is probably our guy.
00:34:00
But we're only going to
get one, maybe two, shots of talking to him at most. FRANK DILLARD: He seemed
really relaxed, very open.
00:34:36
A lot of manners-- yes, sir. No, sir. And I'm thinking, OK, hey,
this guy seems to be OK.
00:34:43
But I'm also thinking
that it could be a ruse. You know, he could still be
that monster I'm hearing about.
00:34:48
Detective Dillard
asks Robert Harvey if he was in the vicinity of
Carmen's apartment the night
00:34:55
she's killed. Robert Harvey claims he's
visiting a friend named Michelle, who coincidentally
lives in an apartment
00:35:22
complex near Carmen's. Detective Frank Dillard
decides to call his bluff. Robert gave us the name
of a person that he was
00:35:54
with the night of the murder. I went back. I made contact with that person. She said she hadn't seen
Robert in weeks, if not months.
00:36:04
LACY BATES: Harvey has just
been caught in a big, fat lie. What happens next? Harvey wises up
and pulls the plug.
00:36:13
FRANK DILLARD: So at that
point, he asked for an attorney. We couldn't talk to him anymore.
00:36:17
Let you make your phone call. This is the worst
scenario that could be. [indistinct]
00:36:26
[light music] NANCY GRACE:
Ridgeland, Mississippi, police are closing in on the
killer of Carmen Sanders.
00:36:33
They're holding a prime
suspect named Robert Harvey overnight in jail. They need, however, to obtain
more evidence from him,
00:36:42
or they'll be forced
to release him. BRYAN BUCKLEY: The next
day, as luck would have it,
00:36:48
he requested to speak with
Detective Dillard again. BRYAN BUCKLEY: So what
happens, he now knows
00:37:05
he's been caught in a lie. And he goes and he sits
in a jail cell all night. And he starts thinking,
how can I get out of this?
00:37:11
And his bright idea was to
call Frank in and say, look, I wasn't exactly truthful.
00:37:16
NANCY GRACE: Robert Harvey
thinks police may have his DNA, so he changes his story.
00:37:21
What he says next
is a bombshell. [dramatic music] Robert drops a bombshell. He puts himself at the
scene knowing Carmen.
00:38:08
And now, all of a sudden,
Frank's got a prime suspect who admits to knowing
Carmen, and he's talking
00:38:14
about having sex with her. NANCY GRACE: Now Detective
Dillard turns up the heat.
00:38:19
He tells Robert
Harvey that he knows Harvey was inside Carmen's
apartment the night
00:38:25
she's murdered. He told me that he and
Carmen were scheduled to have sex that day at her apartment.
00:39:19
Robert claimed that when
he got to Carmen's apartment, he walked in and saw
her wrapped in a blanket
00:39:26
with a knife in her. At that point, he ran out. I asked Robert, why
didn't he call 911?
00:39:34
He said he panicked. At this point, I'm
happy that Robert has put himself in the crime scene.
00:39:59
LACY BATES: The fact
that Harvey puts himself inside Carmen's apartment
the night of the murder
00:40:04
is a game changer. FRANK DILLARD: I decided
to call Robert's bluff. I asked Robert about his
DNA being on the knife.
00:40:11
Why is his DNA on the knife? FRANK DILLARD: After
I said that to Robert, I could see the wheels turning
in his head, the blank stare
00:40:28
in his face, him trying to
think of another answer. There was a big pause. And Robert says, OK, well, I
went over to see if she was OK,
00:40:46
and I may have
touched the knife. So at this point, come on. When you're in a hole,
put the shovel down.
00:40:56
But Robert Harvey does
not put the shovel down. He keeps digging a massive hole.
00:41:03
FRANK DILLARD:
According to Robert, he and his brother drove up to
Carmen's apartment, went inside.
00:41:11
While he and Carmen
were having sex, the brother was in the
other room, stealing.
00:41:17
Carmen came out, witnessing him
stealing some items, and said, I'm going to call the police.
00:41:23
At that point, the
brother's got a knife. And then murdered. I'm not buying it. It shows that he'll do whatever
it takes to do to get away.
00:41:39
He has no loyalty to anyone. He'll throw anybody under
the bus just to get free.
00:41:44
LACY BATES: At this point,
Harvey asked for an attorney. But it's too late because he has
already incriminated himself.
00:41:51
BRYAN BUCKLEY: We've
got a suspect that says he knows the murder victim,
says he went to the apartment
00:41:56
that night and admits
to touching the knife that killed Carmen Sanders. That's all you need.
00:42:02
So at that point, he's
charged with capital murder. In Mississippi, that's
a death penalty case.
00:42:12
NANCY GRACE: Detective
Cassandra Dotson delivers the news to Carmen's parents. I was excited, but hurt to
be able to tell Carmen's mom
00:42:24
that we did arrest the suspect. She cried. She cried. My main focus then was to
try to sympathize with her
00:42:34
and let her know
that I felt her pain. And she thanked me. And she said, I felt like in
my heart that you would do it.
00:42:43
NANCY GRACE: Police tracked down
the PlayStation Robert Harvey stole the night of the murder.
00:42:50
CASSANDRA DOTSON: When we
interviewed Harvey's brother, he did say that Harvey did have
a PlayStation that he was trying
00:42:56
to sell, and he knew
that Harvard did not have his own PlayStation 3. So his assumption
was Harvey stole
00:43:04
the PlayStation from
Terry's apartment the day that Carmen was murdered. BRYAN BUCKLEY: The Richmond
Police Department had put
00:43:12
together a really good case. And this was a very dangerous
man, that if you looked at him
00:43:16
and saw this small
little guy going around, you wouldn't realize
how dangerous he was.
00:43:20
But thanks to the police
department and the detectives, we were able to get
him off the street
00:43:25
and get him ready for trial. NANCY GRACE: In the
end, there is no trial. BRYAN BUCKLEY: His
defense lawyer came to us
00:43:33
and wanted to cut a plea deal. Ultimately, what happened was if
we took death off of the table,
00:43:41
he would plead to that
murder and do life without the
possibility of parole. NANCY GRACE: Assistant
District Attorney Brian
00:43:47
Buckley signs off on the deal. A cold-blooded killer is locked
up for the rest of his life.
00:43:54
FRANK DILLARD: I
would say this is probably one of the most
dangerous individuals
00:43:57
that I've ever met. We knew that a serial
killer was off the street. People seem to forget
he had killed before.
00:44:03
BRYAN BUCKLEY: Robert Harvey
is a cold-blooded killer, and he's a coward. He's out there attacking
women with weapons.
00:44:10
He is not a man. Carmen had a pretty bright
future ahead of her. And just because her
boyfriend at the time
00:44:17
happens to work with a
psychopath, you know, her life is just taken from her. NANCY GRACE: Police believe
Robert Harvey murdered Carmen
00:44:25
Sanders after she caught
him inside their apartment stealing the PlayStation. LACY BATES: On the night
of Carmen's murder,
00:44:32
she had made plans to
have dinner with a friend. On the way to dinner,
she told her friend
00:44:36
that she was just going to stop
in to her apartment real quick and grab her Christmas
present for her that she still
00:44:41
had under the Christmas tree. If she hadn't have gone home
to get that Christmas gift,
00:44:45
she could still be alive today. FRANK DILLARD: I tell
people this all the time--
00:44:50
don't leave your doors
unlocked, especially during the Christmas time. People are looking
to steal, break in.
00:44:56
And this guy was not
only a burglar, a thief-- he was a murderer. He had the resume.
00:45:05
[whimsical holiday music] NANCY GRACE: Every Christmas
since her murder, detectives
00:45:09
at the Ridgeland
Police Department think about a beautiful,
innocent young victim named
00:45:15
Carmen. Yeah. I have daughters. This case comes to my mind quite
a bit, especially the holidays.
00:45:24
The officers of the
Ridgeland Police Department prioritized this case, and
they left no stones unturned.
00:45:35
And I'm grateful to be
able to be a part of that. We give some closure
to Carmen's family.
00:45:41
So many times,
we simply ask, why? Why is an innocent and
beautiful young person
00:45:49
murdered, taken from us just as
her life is really beginning? Why are some people
so evil and so cold
00:45:57
that they will willingly
take that life? It's the eternal question of
good versus evil, a question
00:46:04
that seems even more tragic
when it happens during the most joyous days of the year.
00:46:11
I'm Nancy Grace. Thank you for joining us here
on "The Christmas Killings." [theme music]