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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences.
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Listener discretion is advised. I can't imagine what went through your mind, what you were doing.
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The sheer fucking terror that that little girl was going through. Absolute terror.
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She knew that she was going to fucking die. She knew it. She stared her killer in the fucking eyes.
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Hello. In case you're lost, this is Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are...
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Wait for it. Wait for it. Hold on, here it comes. We're going to hit the post. We're about to do it.
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Here we go. It's almost time. Real! Well, everyone that's seen Sword and Scale television is showering us with compliments.
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We have to pack up all kinds of gear. I mean, insane amounts of gear, put them in a van, and then drive across the country to wherever the victims of the crime are.
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and then go to their homes, interview them. There's a lot of people involved. There's a lot of travel, a lot of expenses.
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That's fine, too. It's up to you. You get more choices. And more choices can't be a bad thing.
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Starting a business sounds exciting until you actually do it. Then suddenly you're the product guy, the website guy, the shipping department, the marketing department, customer service, all of it.
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And if you're anything like me when I started, you're thinking, am I doing this right?
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Is anyone going to actually care? That's where Shopify makes a lot of sense. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, including 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.
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They give you hundreds of ready-to-use templates so you can build a clean, professional online store that actually looks like your brand.
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And once you're up and running, Shopify has tools for inventory, payments, analytics, returns, and international shipping all in one place.
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They even have AI tools to help you write product descriptions, improve page headlines, and enhance product photography.
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Plus, easy email and social media campaigns to help customers actually find you.
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It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 a month trial today at shopify.com slash sword and scale.
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Go to shopify.com slash sword and scale. That's shopify.com slash sword and scale.
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Cha-ching. Sprawled across the western edge of Florida's panhandle, surrounded by over 50 miles of coastline, sits the well-known city of Pensacola.
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It's a city that's mostly known for its beautiful beaches and for attracting surfers and campervan travelers.
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While it's true that Pensacola has no shortage of surfer bros and hipsters, the majority of its population aren't beach bums.
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Most of the people of Pensacola are just everyday Americans that do what everyday Americans
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typically do. They go to work. Around 4pm on May 31st 2017 a 38 year old man named Robert Howard was planning to do just that Robert had just walked out of his girlfriend Pensacola apartment and was planning to make an hour commute to work
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when he was stopped in the apartment complex's parking lot by two women. When I grabbed everything, I came out the door.
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When I came out the door, I came downstairs. That's when the little girl's mom and another older lady
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stopped and asked me if I had seen the little girl. and I told them, no, I just came out of the apartment
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and that's when she told me her daughter was missing and I talked with them for a few minutes
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and I told her I'm not being rude but I got to go to work and I left The two women asked Robert
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about a young girl that they believed to be missing One of those young women was
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the girl's mother and her name was Shantara Hurry Later that day Shantara contacted
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her local police department and reported her daughter missing. When police first began looking into the situation,
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they questioned the last person to have supposedly seen the missing girl, which happened to be her 10-year-old brother, Emmanuel.
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My sister, she can't walk outside. Can I see her? Tell me more about that. I wasn't a bad girl, but my sister had walked in.
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I walked outside, and my brother told me, and I got the bathroom. He said, Naomi's coming.
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And I went outside to look, and then I caught my mom. I told her what happened, and then my mama came in the hallway.
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Okay. Thank you for telling me about that. And tell me what your sister's name is.
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Naomi. And how old is she? Twelve. Twelve. Okay. Naomi Jones had recently celebrated her 12th birthday
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and she lived in a small apartment with her mom and two younger brothers according to her brother Emanuel on the day that Naomi went missing
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she and her brothers had just finished walking their dog they returned home and all three of them went inside the apartment
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but then Naomi went back outside by herself and didn't return What was going on before she left?
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What was going on? She was cooking, and that what happened? And then she walked outside, and she was crying.
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At the time of Naomi's disappearance, Naomi and her two younger brothers were home alone.
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Little 12-year-old Naomi was looking after her two younger brothers, which wasn't an ideal situation.
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But it was oftentimes the only option. Naomi's mom was just 18 years old when Naomi was born, and she was single.
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To support her kids, she worked two jobs. Usually, hiring a nanny or finding a relative to look after the children wasn't an option.
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So big sister Naomi picked up the slack and took care of things while her mom was at work.
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She'd leave the kids and work two jobs. Them kids be at home by themselves. But you got Naomi watching two little boys like she grown.
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Would you say Naomi's a responsible 12-year-old? Or would you say she's a typical 12-year-old?
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I say she's responsible. That girl right there, the sweetest girl in the world, she ain't got no problem.
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All she do, she keep her grades, she go to school. In a lot of ways, Naomi was an exceptional 12-year-old.
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According to the adults in her life, Naomi was caring, smart, ambitious, and especially mature for her age.
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Naomi dreamed of becoming a doctor or nurse, and she had a mind for science. One of her hobbies included using household ingredients to make different forms of slime.
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Yes, slime. In the clip you're about to hear, Naomi is creating a YouTube video and teaching her audience how they can also create slime.
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Midway through the recording, one of her younger brothers plays a practical joke on her by snatching away her camera and running off with it.
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So this one right here was actually made with flour. And this is made with flour.
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That's why it's like so moist. Moose out! Wait! Wait! Wait! After Naomi was reported missing, the Escambia County Sheriff's Office began their search effort.
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And they clearly took this case very seriously as they alerted every local media station and held several press conferences.
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You know, those of you that have seen Naomi's picture, she's the all-American girl.
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I mean, she's a child that you would want in your home. That's the bright face you look at across the breakfast table every morning and give a kiss to before she goes to school.
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To tell you that these cases are heartbreaking is to state it in the minimum. For police, and just about anyone who knew Naomi, there was a detail about this case that strongly suggested foul play,
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and that Naomi wasn't just a runaway. On the day that Naomi went missing, she walked out of the apartment.
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She left without her cell phone. Like most girls her age, Naomi's cell phone was usually glued to her hand.
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But on that particular day, she just left it behind. Tell me how come Naomi didn't take her phone.
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I think it was because she wasn't going anywhere for it. Okay what makes you think that Because she takes her a way with her Nobody could say why Naomi went back outside on her own that day
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But she clearly didn't plan to be gone for long. If she had, Naomi almost certainly would have taken her cell phone with her.
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As the search effort to find Naomi continued, detectives at the Escambia County Sheriff's Office questioned a lot of people.
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Among those people was Naomi's mom's ex-boyfriend, Arthur Bruce, who was no stranger to law enforcement.
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In fact, when cops picked him up, there was an active warrant for his arrest. But it wasn't for anything too serious.
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apparently Arthur had been previously busted with some marijuana and was subsequently placed on probation
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Arthur then violated that probation and a warrant was issued for his arrest nonetheless when Arthur was brought in for questioning he was cooperative
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and agreed to speak with detectives about Naomi during his interview Arthur echoed how strange it was that Naomi had left
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without her cell phone Let me tell you something. Naomi don't go nowhere, sir. Naomi don't go outside like that.
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Naomi liked the phone. She liked approvals. She liked to be in her room. The phone was left in the house.
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That don't sound right. It just don't fucking sound right. It don't fucking add up.
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Detectives in this case had two very good reasons to question Arthur Bruce. The first, and the most obvious, was that he was Naomi's mom's ex, and he knew Naomi pretty well.
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The second, and much more concerning reason, was that, despite being the ex-boyfriend,
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Arthur was still communicating with Naomi through text messages. While there was plenty of room for plausible deniability,
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some of Arthur's conversations with Naomi could have been considered inappropriate
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for a grown man to have with a 12-year-old girl. Naomi's birthday was ready to come up, and she asked me for a pair of Space Jam Jordan shoes.
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And I went over there. Naomi texted you wanting certain shoes? Yeah, she wanted the shoes, the Space Jams.
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And I said, since you've been good and you kept your grades up, I said, listen to your mama, obey your mama, follow what your mama say, and I'll get you them shoes.
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And she just wanted that one thing. It was just some space jam joints. Arthur asked Naomi what her shirt and shoe sizes were.
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And according to Arthur, the only reason he asked her that question was because she wanted those things for her birthday.
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This conversation apparently led to some conflict when Naomi's mom learned about it.
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Did she text you from Naomi's phone Being upset with you For you texting Naomi Yeah she told me not to text Naomi
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I asked Naomi What side she was And Naomi went and asked her mother And her mother came and said
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Don't text Naomi no more Don't text us no more Don't get in contact with us no more
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And you could see on the text I said I respect that I understand that I said y'all have a good day
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blessed day. I don't want no problems. Alan Sagad, when we talked to Shantara, she made it sound like
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you were reaching out to Naomi in almost a sexual way or, you know. Oh, Lord. And so you see what I'm
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saying? Naturally, Arthur denied the accusation that anything he said to Naomi was meant
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as a sexual advance towards her. Interestingly, when asked what he thought happened to Naomi,
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Arthur had his own theory. Whatever going on... What's your gut feeling? What do you think happened?
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I'm going to tell you something that shocks me, and I wish I would have called that.
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I called her the night you called me, and first thing she said, you weren't talking about them $70,
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all this right here. What the hell are you talking about some money right now when your daughter's missing?
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we ain't talking about no money right now I said what's going on with Naomi don't worry about it
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I couldn't even talk to her I just hung the phone up you think Sean Tara would hurt her own daughter
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I think that would happen man and that's all cover up something just in my bones man
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I just feel like it ain't right because I think the mother knows more than she know man
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I don't disagree with you Right now, Shantara is just, I mean, she's like flatline.
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She don't show no emotions. She got Naomi somewhere. Arthur seemingly suspected that Naomi's mom had something to do with Naomi's disappearance,
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which was a theory that detectives had considered. For a mom whose 12-year-old daughter was missing, Shantara Hurry seemed pretty composed.
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And her calm demeanor was on full display during her many media appearances. If Naomi is out there, if anybody is watching that has my baby, I just need you to bring her back home.
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My number is all over social media right now. Just please bring my baby home. something else that struck detectives as strange
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was the story that they got from Naomi brother Emanuel initially Emanuel told police that when Naomi left the apartment he was in his bedroom lying down
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He claimed that he hadn't actually witnessed Naomi walk out the door, but he later changed
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his story. So you saw her leave? Mm-hmm. Okay. So that was when she just left and you didn't see her again?
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Mm-hmm. So, Emmanuel, here's where I'm confused, because you told me earlier that you were asleep when
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she left, but now you're telling me that you heard her tell you that she forgot something
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and you saw her leave. So those are two different things. Help me understand. How come you told me something different before?
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What did Mom say about coming here? She's like, did Mom talk to you? Mm-hmm. Did she tell you anything else?
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Okay. Has anybody asked you to not talk about stuff or told you to keep secrets or anything like
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that? Emanuel was asked pointed questions about his mom because there was a possibility that he had been coached and instructed to lie about Naomi's disappearance.
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But if that was the case, then detectives were never able to get Emanuel to admit it.
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As the theories of what happened to Naomi Jones began to stack up, the effort to find her continued.
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By June 3rd, 2017, Naomi had been missing for over three days. We've conducted 300 interviews, 30 search warrants.
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We've gone not one mile, not two miles, but a three-mile radius. We've checked our waterways. We've checked a lot of Facebook posts.
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We've got about 200-plus tips. We've written down each one of those tips. We do hope that, and we pray that you guys will, the media will, put this information out,
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not just locally, but regionally and then nationally, because right at this point, we really do not know what happened to Naomi.
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Hundreds of volunteers came out to assist the search effort to find Naomi. And for nearly a week, Naomi's family and friends anxiously awaited for answers
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as they prayed for Naomi's safe return. It wasn't until the fifth day that the search came to an abrupt end
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when a simple fisherman came across something that he wouldn't soon forget. It was on that day that the tragic fate of 12-year-old Naomi Jones was finally revealed.
00:20:42
Starting a business sounds exciting until you actually do it. Then suddenly you're the product guy, the website guy, the shipping department, the marketing department, customer service, all of it.
00:20:55
And if you're anything like me when I started, you're thinking, am I doing this right?
00:21:00
Is anyone going to actually care? That's where Shopify makes a lot of sense. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world, including 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S.
00:21:12
They give you hundreds of ready-to-use templates so you can build a clean, professional online store that actually looks like your brand.
00:21:20
And once you're up and running, Shopify has tools for inventory, payments, analytics, returns, and international shipping all in one place.
00:21:28
They even have AI tools to help you write product descriptions, improve page headlines, and enhance product photography.
00:21:36
Plus, easy email and social media campaigns to help customers actually find you.
00:21:41
It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 a month trial today at shopify.com slash sword and scale.
00:21:54
Go to shopify.com slash sword and scale. That's shopify.com slash sword and scale.
00:22:02
Cha-ching. In June of 2017, 12-year-old Naomi Jones went missing from the Aspen Village Apartments in Pensacola, Florida, where she lived with her mom and two younger brothers.
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In response to Naomi's disappearance, the Escambia County Sheriff's Office launched a massive and highly organized search effort.
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But after three days of relentless searching, there was still no sign of Naomi. It's continuing the pressure to try to find Naomi Jones.
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I wish this morning we had some good news for you. Unfortunately, we do not. The search continues today.
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We want to thank all those folks that are involved. We've got civilian agencies here, the Class Kids Foundation,
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which has had over 150 volunteers from around the nation, by the way, to come and help us in our search for Naomi.
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I will tell you, the community and the nation, that we are triple-checking at this point, areas that we have been over.
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As the days dragged on, Naomi's younger brothers struggled to understand the possibility that Naomi may never be found, and that she may never be coming home.
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Do you have any worries about Naomi? How long has she been gone for? Three days.
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Three days. How are you feeling about that? She's sad, yeah. Yeah. As for the adults in Naomi's life,
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they held on to hope that Naomi would be found and that she would be safely returned to her family.
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A little girl missing. Somebody around here know what the fuck going on. Might be with a grown-up.
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But I just deep in my heart don't believe Naomi gone. She ain't gone, man. As the search for Naomi continued,
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detectives assigned to the case continued asking questions. Eventually, they ended up speaking with a young man named Jermaine Portis,
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who sometimes went by the nickname Man Man. What days do you usually work out there?
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What's your work schedule? Monday, sometimes I'll be off like Monday to Tuesday, sometimes Tuesday and Wednesday.
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At the time of this police interview, Jermaine Portis was 23 years old, and he worked as a dishwasher and busboy at a nearby motel.
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The detectives assigned to the Naomi Jones case were led to Jermaine through Naomi's phone records.
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Your Facebook page has a phone number associated with it, okay? that phone number has been texting Naomi the missing girl.
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In order to create a Facebook account, a person needs to provide a phone number or an email address.
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In Jermaine's case, when he created his Facebook page, he used a phone number. And that phone number had recently exchanged text messages with Naomi.
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Yet Jermaine denied that he knew Naomi at all. and he couldn't explain how or why
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Naomi had the phone number that was linked to his Facebook. In fact, Jermaine claimed that the phone number wasn't even his
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and it belonged to his older sister. Yeah, because I don't know how my sister's number ended up in the little girl phone.
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I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how that number is. Who's your sister? Laquita Portis.
00:25:44
How old is Laquita? She's like 27, 28. Would there be any, does she still have that number?
00:25:52
Yeah. Okay. So when was the last time you had access to her phone? It's been so long, I don't know, man, to be honest with you.
00:26:01
Like, I really don't. Like, and if so, and if I did, was to get on her phone, it wasn't like texting the girl,
00:26:10
Wyoming, whoever, I don't even know the girl, you know what I'm saying? I don't even know how that number ended up in her phone, period.
00:26:15
Jermaine explained that when he created his Facebook page, he didn't have a phone, so he just used his sister's number to set up the account.
00:26:25
While that seemed plausible, it still didn't explain why Naomi had that number in her phone.
00:26:33
So after hearing Jermaine's explanation, or rather, his lack of one, the detectives began asking him about his whereabouts on the day that Naomi went missing.
00:26:44
this didn't go well for jermaine go ahead and tell me about your day wednesday the 31st what
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you did from the time you woke up i was working i was working okay what's your schedule which
00:27:02
what time did you go in i'm going at five in the morning okay naomi went missing on may 31st
00:27:09
at around 1.30 p.m. Jermaine's typical work shift was 5 a.m. to 1 p.m., leaving him plenty of time to make his way over to Naomi's apartment.
00:27:21
At the same time, Jermaine couldn't even give a straight answer as to whether he even worked that day at all.
00:27:27
And you're positive you went to work that day? If not, I was off. I don't know. but either way to go
00:27:38
I understand I'm trying to get the story and all that but either way to go I don't know the girl
00:27:43
I feel like I do the same thing every day I just hang out with my friends and stuff like that
00:27:49
Okay With these kind of situations we're talking to a lot of different people and generalizing
00:27:56
I do the same thing every day and this situation isn't going to cut it Maybe I went to work
00:28:02
Maybe I didn't Maybe I saw some friends because maybe I didn't. Dumb criminals lie about all the wrong things, don't they?
00:28:13
And as far as alibis go, Jermaine's was about as ambiguous as you could get. The cops don't like that, by the way.
00:28:23
And when they pushed him about it, the only thing Jermaine could say was that he never met Naomi,
00:28:29
and he had no idea who she even was. unfortunately for him detectives had information that suggested otherwise we talked to one of your
00:28:40
neighbors and they said that they've seen naomi come to your house a few times it's funny to me because people still appointing friends and saying names but where is she
00:28:56
i don't know nobody knows i don't know but i know only one person knows therefore you shouldn't say
00:29:02
you've seen the girl come to my house you've never seen a very come to my house no in the past
00:29:06
they've seen in the past i've never seen in the past i've never seen the girl appeared i've never
00:29:12
seen her not only had his neighbors supposedly spotted naomi at germaine's house but according
00:29:19
to detectives another witness placed germaine at naomi's apartment complex on the day she went
00:29:25
missing. There were some people there with her on the 31st, and they said that Man Man was over
00:29:34
there that morning. That's what they said, and I wasn't. So you're sure you were at work that day?
00:29:44
Yep, but if I was not, I was not around. I mean, if you could explain, yeah, okay,
00:29:52
I went over to the apartment that morning but I didn have anything to do with it as a parent If I said I would but I can explain it like that because I wasn there I don know Y can like get me messed up behind something that I really ain got nothing to do with You know what I saying So even if it was to go farther if y seen me around somebody or whatever
00:30:09
I didn't do nothing wrong. I didn't know by then. Confidently, Jermaine maintained that had nothing to do with Naomi's disappearance
00:30:18
and that he had never even met her. After a few hours of questioning and a whole lot of denial, Jermaine was sent home, and he remained a potential suspect.
00:30:32
Within hours of Jermaine leaving the police station, the case took a sudden turn.
00:30:39
Twelve-year-old Naomi Jones had finally been found. Naomi Jones was found in Eight Mile Creek Monday morning.
00:30:47
She had been missing for five days. The sheriff's office says based on the preliminary autopsy, she had been killed within the first 24 to 36 hours after her abduction.
00:30:58
The area where she was found has turned into a growing memorial. However, that spot is not where she was killed, according to the sheriff's office.
00:31:07
The sheriff would not go into detail about how she died, only that her cause of death is asphyxiation.
00:31:12
Five days after she was first reported missing, a local fisherman found Naomi's small and lifeless body lying under a bridge in a creek about ten miles from the apartment complex where she lived.
00:31:29
Naomi was found partially submerged. She was wearing the same tank top she had on when she went missing, but she was nude from the waist down.
00:31:40
later an autopsy revealed that naomi died of asphyxiation the medical examiner concluded
00:31:48
that she had likely been strangled to death for the detectives that saw and pulled naomi's body
00:31:56
out of the creek it was a day and an event that they will likely never forget He said that he didn't look like that pretty little girl.
00:32:07
Skin slipping off, hair falling off her head, animals eating on her. She'll never get to grow up and do things that she wanted to do.
00:32:19
Hang out with her friends, go to school, find a boyfriend, get married, have kids.
00:32:27
At just 12 years old, Naomi's life had ended. all of her aspirations and the potential of who she could have become
00:32:36
was lost forever. When the news broke, the local community rallied behind Naomi's family
00:32:44
and hundreds of people attended a vigil to honor Naomi and support Naomi's mom. I would love to thank you all for coming out today.
00:32:57
It means the world to me to know that every single one of you took your time out of your day to come down here.
00:33:07
We love you, girl. And support my baby. She did everything to me. And I see how many vibes she did.
00:33:24
The search for Naomi had ended. but now the hunt was on to find her killer. During the search and throughout the investigation,
00:33:35
the police questioned hundreds of people but their best lead came when they interviewed a young man named Robert Howard.
00:33:44
When Naomi's mom first learned that her daughter was missing, she rushed home from work and called Naomi's grandmother.
00:33:52
Together, the two of them began knocking on every door in her apartment complex.
00:33:57
asking the residents if they'd seen Naomi. As they were doing this, they ran into Robert,
00:34:05
just as he was on his way to work. On my way out, I ran into, I don't know the girl's mom name,
00:34:12
but her and another older lady. And that's when she asked me, have I seen her door?
00:34:18
And I'm like, well, no, ma'am, I just came out the apartment. And she was like, well, it's my door.
00:34:23
And I'm like, well, no, ma'am. She was like, well, she's missing. And I stood there and talked with them.
00:34:27
or a minute before I left. So you hadn't seen Naomi? No. Do you know who Naomi is?
00:34:33
Yes, I know exactly who she is. I see her, well, you see her every time we're in and out of the apartment.
00:34:37
Mm-hmm. Her and her brothers are either out there playing with their dog, or they're on that back balcony, or they're in between apartments playing.
00:34:43
Mm-hmm. Had you seen her at all that day? No, ma'am. Okay. 38-year-old Robert Howard lived and worked in Bruton, Alabama,
00:34:52
which was about an hour away from the apartment complex where Naomi lived. But Robert would often spend days at a time at his girlfriend's apartment, which was just a few doors away from Naomi's apartment.
00:35:06
Your girlfriend lives in the apartment. And what's her name again? Lauren. Lauren Ewing.
00:35:11
What is it? Lauren Ewing. And you guys have a child together? Yes. A baby, right? One year old?
00:35:19
Okay. How old is Lauren? Lauren's 30. 30? Yes. And how old are you now? 38. How long have you been involved with Lauren?
00:35:32
A couple years. According to Robert, he and his girlfriend Lauren had dated for over two years and they had a child together.
00:35:41
Yet, they lived an hour apart. For detectives, this seemed like an odd arrangement.
00:35:50
But they did confirm that all of it was true when they spoke to Lauren. How long have you been with Robert About two years Okay About two years Does Robert live with you
00:36:06
No. So, explain to me how that works out, because he's up in Bruton at work, and he also keeps the place up there, too.
00:36:15
Given that Robert frequently stayed at Lauren's apartment, and that the two of them were basically Naomi's neighbors, the cops wanted to find out exactly what they did on the day that Naomi went missing.
00:36:30
As for Lauren, her day was pretty easy to track and verify. Lauren went to work in the morning and didn't return until the early evening.
00:36:40
She left her apartment while Naomi was still accounted for and didn't return until long after Naomi went missing.
00:36:48
So Lauren seemed to be in the clear. Okay, so when you left that morning at 6, was Robert there?
00:36:56
Yes. Okay. And when you got home, was Robert there? No. Okay. All right. Now, that night, I guess, you probably would have come home and gone to sleep at some point.
00:37:13
Is that fair to say? Do you remember him coming home to your house after you had been to sleep?
00:37:22
Yes. Okay. What did he do? Um, tell her. Robert told investigators that on the day that Naomi went missing, he woke up at Lauren's apartment, went to the gym, and then returned to the apartment.
00:37:41
Then he drove to Lauren's work to quickly visit her, which Lauren later confirmed.
00:37:48
After that, Robert returned to the apartment one more time and prepared to go to work.
00:37:53
You work at Freak Car? Yes. What is your schedule at work? Um, fortnight's. We're going in on time to swing, 3.30 and 5.
00:38:03
Did you work that Wednesday that Naomi went missing, the initial night? That Wednesday night, yes.
00:38:08
I got to work maybe like between 5, 15, 5, 30, somewhere up in this, I'm going to say,
00:38:14
I left the apartment around 4.30. Robert was a night shift employee at a large train repair facility.
00:38:22
On the night in question, and on most nights, Robert worked alongside only one other employee.
00:38:30
So you work with Robert. I heard that you two are the only two at night? Yes. Okay. All right.
00:38:36
5 o'clock. Most time it's 3 or 5, either one, until 2 o'clock in the morning or 11 o'clock at night.
00:38:43
It all depends on the switch list. Okay. According to his co-worker, Robert did show up to work on the evening that Naomi Jones went missing, and he worked a full shift.
00:38:55
Presumably, had Robert abducted and murdered Naomi earlier that day, he almost certainly would have been acting differently or showing some signs that he did something horrible, right?
00:39:07
I clocked in and he was there. It was right at 5.30 when he got there. Okay. How was he acting?
00:39:15
like his normal self. I mean, just like every day. I mean, I ain't seen no difference.
00:39:22
We start to now, we look at our paper, you know, we laugh, we tell each other what we get over the weekend.
00:39:28
Just, I mean, just like a normal person. As far as this co-worker could tell, Robert seemed like his same old self.
00:39:37
But as investigators began looking into the type of man that Robert was, they quickly learned that Robert was pretty good at keeping secrets.
00:39:49
During his interview, Robert admitted that in addition to dating Lauren and having a child with her
00:39:55
and pretty much living at her apartment, Robert was also dating another woman. She was 37-year-old Yolanda Mitchell.
00:40:07
What kind of relationship you have with her? We mess around. Okay. We mess around.
00:40:12
How old is she? 37. Assume. Lauren doesn't know. No, she doesn't. I got you. Just a little something on the side.
00:40:22
Yes. I got you. It turned out that on the day that Naomi Jones went missing, Robert visited Yolanda on his way to work.
00:40:32
Yolanda had just come from a funeral and needed a shoulder to cry on, if you know what I mean.
00:40:38
So, Robert obliged. What was your relationship with him? Friends, but more than friends.
00:40:48
Nobody really knew about our relationship. Okay. On the phone with you in this time frame, did he seem nervous, weird, anything?
00:41:00
No. When I called him when I got on that funeral, he was very supportive, very encouraging.
00:41:07
I literally broke down crying because, like I said, I just walked out the funeral and I literally broke down crying.
00:41:15
And he's like, it's OK, baby, cry. That's what you need to do. Just cry. It's going to be OK.
00:41:20
All of that. That's our whole conversation. If you can look beyond the fact that Robert was cheating on the mother of his child, you might be inclined to think that maybe he's a decent guy.
00:41:34
After all, offering emotional support to someone that just left a funeral is a kind and decent thing to do.
00:41:42
Unfortunately for Robert, the investigators knew better. They've been around the block for a while.
00:41:50
They've seen a few things. They knew a lot of things in fact that Robert and his friends and girlfriends didn know They knew that this man wasn decent at all
00:42:05
Robert Howard was a registered sex offender and had previously spent 15 years in prison.
00:42:13
What is your background or your history? Well, when I was in high school, I got out of high school.
00:42:19
Me and a girl were missed around. She got pregnant. and her. So I said I got, well, I copped out because I didn't have
00:42:28
no money to try to afford a lawyer, so I had to cop out. And I did 15 years. How old were you?
00:42:34
Like 18 years old. What year was that? 1998. What was the charge? First degree rate.
00:42:43
First degree rate? Yes. That was in Alabama? Yes. Robert claimed that the 19-year-old woman
00:42:50
that accused him of rape had lied. to the police and Robert was unable to afford a good attorney so he had no choice but to accept
00:43:00
the plea deal from the Alabama prosecutor of course that story is kind of hard to believe
00:43:07
when you consider that Robert was later convicted of raping yet another woman was there another
00:43:13
charge that you had in your history yeah it was um say the same thing it was just another girl
00:43:19
put in basically like I did this same thing to this other girl. You got her pregnant or you just
00:43:26
I didn't get her pregnant just messing around and she said I made her and it's the same time that
00:43:31
this other girl said the same thing. So you were 18 how old was this girl? Same age.
00:43:37
To sum up detectives were questioning a twice convicted rapist that was pretty much living at
00:43:44
the same apartment complex as 12-year-old Naomi Jones. As bad as all that looked, Robert's criminal history and his living arrangements didn't
00:43:56
exactly prove that he abducted and murdered Naomi. What could prove it, though, or at least help convince a jury, was Robert's early morning
00:44:07
visit to the area where Naomi's body was found. Were you in that area or over that way on last Wednesday, the 31st?
00:44:21
No, sir. Okay. And what do you drive? I have a silver Altima. Nissan Altima? Yes, ma'am.
00:44:29
Okay. Naomi's body was found under a small bridge over 8 Mile Creek in Pensacola, about 10 miles from where Naomi lived.
00:44:39
as luck would have it there are several traffic surveillance cameras in that area
00:44:45
what if what if i were to tell you that your car was in the area where her body was found that night
00:44:53
no that's impossible you mean because it could have been why tell me why because when i have my
00:45:02
car this is at work when i live work it comes straight back to johnson avenue as long as the
00:45:07
car. Did anybody else have your car that night? No one ever has my car. If we were to subpoena your
00:45:14
phone records, are you going to show you in that area? No, you can show me in that area.
00:45:19
Detectives had irrefutable evidence that Robert drove to 8 Mile Creek about 12 hours after
00:45:26
Naomi's disappearance. Not only that, but they could also place him at the apartment complex
00:45:33
at the time that Naomi went missing. I'm just going to be honest with you. What time did you pick Naomi up?
00:45:41
I never picked Naomi up. Just being honest with you. You sure about that? I'm positive.
00:45:50
Well, about the time you leave your apartment is the time she goes missing. But the thing about that is,
00:45:58
when I drop Lauren off, I go straight to Bruton. So how is it that I can beat her up?
00:46:04
The thing about that is, is that we already have your phone records. Okay. And you were at the apartments at 1.30.
00:46:13
I was going at 1.30. Phone records show no. You were there at 1.30. That phone number that you gave me, the phone number we subpoenaed for the records, you were at the apartments at 1.30.
00:46:24
You were not in Bruton. Detectives knew that Robert was lying. And they could prove it.
00:46:34
They had him dead to rights. And yes, I figured out what that saying means. Thanks for the help in the comments.
00:46:43
So after a few more hours of poking and prodding at Robert, some partial truth began coming out.
00:46:54
Robert eventually admitted that he had done something horrible and unforgivable.
00:46:59
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00:48:46
Cha-ching. On June 5, 2017, after an exhaustive search effort, the dead body of 12-year-old Naomi Jones was found under a small bridge
00:49:12
at 8 Mile Creek in Pensacola, Florida. It was later determined that Naomi had been strangled to death
00:49:19
and her body was thrown off a bridge. During the murder investigation, Escambia County detectives interviewed hundreds of people.
00:49:30
Among those questioned was 38-year-old Robert Howard. Robert lived and worked in Bruton, Alabama, but he often stayed at his girlfriend's apartment in Pensacola,
00:49:41
which happened to be in the same apartment complex where Naomi lived and was last seen alive.
00:49:47
we all know that in true crime cases there's usually not a lot of extenuating circumstances
00:49:55
if it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck then adnan probably did it you know common sense
00:50:03
the kind of thing that isn't around that much these days there's also the fact of course that
00:50:08
robert was a registered sex offender in the late 90s he was convicted of first degree rape twice
00:50:16
and spent 15 years in prison. After learning about Robert and his history, investigators used phone records and surveillance footage
00:50:25
to track Robert's movements on the day that Naomi Jones went missing. Once a sex offender, always a sex offender.
00:50:35
Investigators knew, and more importantly could prove, that Robert was at the apartment complex when Naomi was abducted
00:50:44
and that Robert had driven to the creek where her body was found about 12 hours after her disappearance.
00:50:52
In other words, Robert was fucked. Given his background, the evidence, along with the fact that Robert was the only person they interviewed
00:51:02
that lied about their whereabouts, the cops knew they had their man. Despite all of this, when questioned, Robert refused to confess.
00:51:14
And he continued to lie. I think one or two things happen. You either have a fetish or were attracted to Naomi
00:51:27
and you got her to get in your car and things might have gotten, let's say, a little carried away
00:51:37
or either you're just a stone cold rapist or killer man. Well, I mean, it's one or the other.
00:51:45
It's neither, because I never got her to get in my car. She's never been in my car.
00:51:50
So which is it? Did you pick her up and have her? I did not pick her up. I did not have anything to do with that child.
00:51:59
I think she got in your car. Well, I don't think she didn't. Robert denied having anything to do with Naomi's disappearance and her death.
00:52:08
but he also denied that he was ever near eight mile creek basically he told cops that reality
00:52:17
wasn't reality where have i heard that before oh yeah oh yeah oh yeah everywhere everywhere
00:52:26
we have your car on video you say you do but i'm telling you you don't we have your car on video
00:52:32
we have your phone records that show your exact route from where you were at from the apartments
00:52:38
to Bruton, back down to where she was found, and they show exactly which route you went.
00:52:44
You can't deny it. It's your phone number. If you say you got my car on video and you say this is showing all this, let me see it, because there's no way.
00:52:55
Robert really thought he could call the cops bluff by asking to see the evidence, but there was no bluff.
00:53:02
His car was captured on camera in the area where Naomi was found. And when Robert asked to see the footage, detectives obliged.
00:53:11
What's that? A Nissan Altima. Okay, and what is that supposed to mean? That's your car.
00:53:17
Okay, so how are you just going to tell me that's my car? Because your phone puts you in that exact spot that that car is at,
00:53:25
at the exact time that that car is on that video. detectives could definitively prove that robert was at the scene where naomi's body was found
00:53:35
there was simply no way around it he couldn't deny it i mean he could but he was denying a fact it's pretty obvious when faced with this finally robert changed his story
00:53:49
he admitted to going to the creek but claimed that his visit there had nothing to do with throwing the dead body of a 12 girl off a bridge No no he was there for you know something else Maybe bird watching or hunting for butterflies
00:54:07
Some sort of ornithology-type venture. Whatever that means. Maybe some kind of caterpillar collecting expedition.
00:54:17
Or the cataloging of leaves for a scrapbooking album of some sort. I don't know why do people go outside anymore
00:54:25
I don't even know I'm a podcaster after all was somebody else with you? no no one else was with me
00:54:32
you were by yourself but I was told that something would be there what was supposed to be there?
00:54:39
it was supposed to be what exactly it was supposed to be something to benefit me
00:54:45
something to benefit me I guess fuck no I don't hope not how's it going to benefit you monetarily it didn't say it just said something to benefit you
00:54:56
do you fucking fortune cookie i have no idea robert told investigators that he found a
00:55:04
letter on his windshield that directed him to eight mile creek this letter was apparently very
00:55:09
vague and only suggested that if robert drove to the creek he would find something that would
00:55:15
benefit him. There was a note for me. There was a note on the car. And it said something to benefit you.
00:55:22
From Naomi? No. Who's it from? It didn't have no name from nobody or to nobody. It was just on the car.
00:55:31
That is the absolute worst fucking story I've ever heard in my life. And I'm telling you the honest and the honest truth.
00:55:38
Robert. Yes, sir. And that is the absolute silliest bullshit that I've ever heard.
00:55:47
That is absolutely fucking ridiculous. Listen to me. See, I thought we were getting somewhere, and you pulled some fucking bullshit on me.
00:55:53
I know you don't believe me. Fuck no, I don't believe you. Fuck no. Y'all are next door fucking neighbors.
00:56:01
She goes missing that afternoon, and you're driving around where she's dumped at.
00:56:07
Not only driving around, you fucking stop. do in circles you know why because you're fucking nervous you don't know where to put her
00:56:17
obviously robert's story about some ambiguous note left on his car was bullshit cops knew it
00:56:25
i mean you know it i know it everybody knows it robert knows it and the cops were pretty much done
00:56:32
playing these little games with them so you are a cold-blooded murderer i'm a home because you're
00:56:38
sitting here to die, deny, deny. You don't care. You just put it like you deny everything and lie
00:56:43
because we have proof that you're lying. But this child has never been in my car. To me,
00:56:47
a 12-year-old baby is dead. She just turned 12. She's 11 years old. I did not touch that child.
00:56:55
I did not hurt that child. She's never been with me. She has. You killed her. No, I did not. You
00:57:02
killed her. You raped her and you killed her. No, I did not. Yes, you did. No, I did not. What'd you
00:57:06
do that. I didn't do anything. You raped that baby. Was she scared? I don't know what she
00:57:14
was. I didn't have her. Did she cry? I didn't have her. You know, cry or whatever. Did she
00:57:22
beg you to stop? I don't know what you're talking about. You fucked her, didn't you? No, sir.
00:57:28
No, sir. You stuck your dick in that little clever old girl. No, sir. I can't imagine what
00:57:32
went through your mind, what you were doing. The sheer fucking terror that that little girl was going through.
00:57:44
Absolute terror. She knew that she was going to fucking die. Knew it. She stared her killer in the fucking eyes.
00:57:55
At this point, investigators had a solid case. There was plenty of evidence that a jury could easily understand, and they didn't really need Robert to admit to anything.
00:58:08
Still, you know, a confession's always nice. It doesn't hurt. And to hear what actually happened from the horse's mouth puts a little closure on things.
00:58:19
So they continued to question Robert and tried to tap into his empathy, if there was any there.
00:58:26
Something that's a 12-year-old girl. I should still be at home walking her bulldog with her two little brothers that thought the world of her.
00:58:37
And her mom out there busting her fucking ass. Working to put food on the fucking table for her kids.
00:58:46
You know the guilt that she's got for this? Because she wasn't at home. She was at fucking work.
00:58:51
She, 12 year old girl, playing the mother role. Taking care of the kids. so her mother could go to work.
00:59:01
She comes back home with her two little brothers after walking that dog and tells her little brother,
00:59:06
I'll be right back. She walks out that door. And her mother's worst nightmare came fucking true.
00:59:17
She met you. Robert made it pretty clear that he didn't give a damn about Naomi's mom
00:59:24
or her two brothers. It was only after the detective offered to help Robert that he was willing to talk.
00:59:32
In other words, Robert's only concern was himself. All's not lost. I'm going to help you through it.
00:59:41
I'm going to help you through it. Because we're going to talk about it. Because right now, I'm your only saving grace.
00:59:49
How? You know what kind of shit it looks like on a 12-year-old kid? they won put you to fucking death If I need something for sure and right I mean I don want to spend the rest of my life in a crib
01:00:06
After several hours of interrogation, and only after the prospect of getting something for himself came up,
01:00:14
Robert finally said something that was basically a confession. He asked the investigator if there was something in Naomi's mouth when she was found.
01:00:26
And indeed there was. The forensic team found candy in her mouth. And that information had not been released to the public.
01:00:38
It was something that only the killer could know. Did they find the candy in her mouth?
01:00:44
Yes. They found candy in her mouth? Yes. Yes. What was it? with candy. I have no idea.
01:00:52
I just know she's in the candy. In asking this question, Robert revealed himself as the killer.
01:01:01
But why did he ask it? Of all the things he could say or ask, why bring up the candy in Naomi's mouth?
01:01:11
For investigators, this question represented the twisted and evil gratification that Robert had in what he had done to Naomi.
01:01:22
In any case, after revealing himself as the killer, Robert then went to spin a story about how Naomi died.
01:01:31
According to Robert, on the day of the murder, he ran into Naomi in the parking lot of her apartment complex
01:01:37
and she unexpectedly started to flirt with him. You say she didn't like my shoes.
01:01:43
She likes your shoes. Oh, thank you. She was like, well, where's Lawrence? She said, can I come in with you?
01:01:54
And I told her, no. And she couldn't come in. When I make it to the door, she's on top of the steps, and I tell her to go back home.
01:02:03
She stands there, and she's like, why can't I come in? Why can't I come in? I said, because you can't.
01:02:08
You don't need to be open. She stands there, and she's making gestures to my, can she come in?
01:02:14
Can she come in with me? I said, no, you can't come in. Is she coming on to you a little bit?
01:02:19
She's frightened. Robert explained that 12-year-old Naomi made very aggressive sexual advances towards him.
01:02:30
Something straight out of penthouse letters, if you can imagine that. And remember that reference.
01:02:38
He said that this 12-year-old girl insisted on going into the apartment where Robert stayed with his girlfriend.
01:02:47
And she's making gestures, sexual gestures. Like what? Can she see the dick? She can handle the dick.
01:02:57
And at this time, it's when she didn't grab my dick, but she grabbed the bottom of my shirt like she was trying to.
01:03:05
She's keeping on keeping on. Even if you ain't trying to do nothing, maybe she was just talking to you to see if she could see my dick.
01:03:13
I don't know. But I didn't show it to her. Right. Because that's what every preteen girl wants.
01:03:24
To see a 40-year-old man's penis. Sure. Of course, Robert's telling of these events was no more believable than his ridiculous note on the car story.
01:03:38
But the fact that he was lying wasn't the worst of it. The worst part was the fact that he was trying to blame the murder victim, a child, for what happened next.
01:03:53
According to Robert, when Naomi refused to accept his rejection of her, he decided to strangle her.
01:04:00
Because that makes total sense. Before I realized I choked her out. I was just around the neck.
01:04:09
I choked her out around the neck. and I said I didn't mean for it to happen. I didn't mean to do it.
01:04:16
I thought she was just, I just blacked off, but I choked her pretty damn good to the point where she wasn't breathing.
01:04:25
Robert claimed that he didn't intend to kill Naomi and as expected, he denied raping her.
01:04:32
Once again, we have a case where the bad guy is willing to admit to murder but won't admit to raping his victim.
01:04:41
Weird. All this stuff, she didn't have on her bottoms and stuff like that. I don't know nothing about that.
01:04:50
I didn't do anything to her sexually. Like I say, I mean, I choked her out, yes.
01:04:57
I'll admit that I did choke her out, but I did not. That's why I did not have sex with her in my car.
01:05:02
No, I didn't do any of that. Robert denied raping Naomi. and surprisingly, the prosecutors in Escambia County never sought rape charges against him.
01:05:12
So can you all say definitively if Naomi was sexually abused in the time frame before or after her death?
01:05:19
We cannot. It's possible that prosecutors were unable to prove that Naomi had been raped.
01:05:26
But it's also possible that they didn't feel like they needed to. Perhaps they didn't want that information to be made public if it wasn't necessary to do so.
01:05:37
But legally speaking, that wasn't the most pressing issue. Robert claimed that Naomi's death was an accident.
01:05:45
If a jury was convinced of that, Robert could be convicted of second-degree murder or even manslaughter.
01:05:53
For prosecutors and Naomi mom that would be devastating They wanted a first murder conviction and a death sentence
01:06:05
I just want them to give him the death penalty. That's what he deserves, and that's a major part of it, getting justice for Naomi.
01:06:14
The case against Robert Howard took two years to go to trial, and in the end, Florida prosecutors were not able to obtain a death sentence.
01:06:25
they did however convince a jury to return a first degree murder conviction and Robert was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole
01:06:36
in many ways Robert Howard is an unremarkable rapist and murderer he was terrible at covering up his crimes
01:06:45
and he was one of the worst liars we've ever come across meaning that he sucks at it
01:06:53
He's really, really, really bad at it. For detectives, this wasn't exactly a difficult case to close.
01:07:02
But if there's anything about Robert that does stand out, it's his ability to trick the people around him
01:07:11
and convince them that he was just a normal, decent, and trustworthy guy. I wouldn't have suspected Robert. Never would have.
01:07:21
Those who know Robert Howard describe him as an athlete from Bruton close to his family.
01:07:27
He ran track and everything. He ran football, tailback, he ran track. But why shock in the small town?
01:07:35
Howard is a known sex offender who spent 15 years in prison for a rape case in 1999.
01:07:41
One of the victims was my cousin. One woman said she is related to his first victim,
01:07:46
and everyone admits they did not believe her at the time. Now they wish they would have listened.
01:07:53
I didn't want to believe he did what they was accusing him of doing. Robert Howard was clean-cut, athletic, and carried himself with modest confidence.
01:08:05
If you were only able to look at him and were forced to make an assumption, you'd probably think he was a normal dude that had his life together.
01:08:14
Robert also spoke well and always seemed genuine with his politeness. He was universally accepted into every social setting around him.
01:08:24
As for the people that knew him best, specifically the women he was dating, learning that Robert was a rapist and child killer was a hard pill to swallow.
01:08:36
So hard, in fact, that his secret girlfriend Yolanda refused to accept it. Even after Robert confessed.
01:08:46
So he confessed to doing this. Yes. I just I find it hard to believe just simply because of the way he acted towards me.
01:08:58
He's always been very affectionate, like he's very sweet, very sweet, very charming.
01:09:05
He was always like that. So, you know, even then, I didn't. I didn't believe it then.
01:09:11
I don't believe it now. I just can't see him raping anybody. That's what I'm saying, you know, with the psychopath, sociopath mentality.
01:09:22
I mean, sometimes those people can act like nothing's wrong, go on with normal lives and take daily activities and you would never know.
01:09:30
Like I said, I've been going over it and over it in my head and I just don't, what did I miss or how did I miss it?
01:09:41
As for Robert's girlfriend Lauren, who was the mother of his one-year-old child at the time,
01:09:47
the news that Robert had murdered a 12-year-old girl didn't go over well. And in that sense, it's your fault.
01:09:54
You just believed you took what he said at face value because he seems very, very intelligent
01:10:00
and very polite and well-mannered and well-spoken, and you took him at face value.
01:10:10
Sorry. Don't be sorry. Please don't be sorry. Anything like that, you know? Of course, yeah.
01:10:21
You can't feel it. You cannot. Do not. Take any kind of blame. Blame yourself. I mean, it's like I said, sometimes we think we know somebody and we really don't.
01:10:36
He had you fooled. He had us fooled. How long did it take us to get here? A week.
01:10:43
He had a lot of people fooled, not just you. He had everybody fooled. Of course, no one in this story has been more devastated by Robert's actions than Naomi's mom.
01:10:54
To this day, Shantara Hurry continues to wonder who her daughter would have become
01:11:01
had her life not been so tragically stolen. On April 15th, Naomi Jones would have celebrated her 14th birthday.
01:11:11
Okay, yeah, this is one of my favorites. Her mother says she would have been a rising eighth grader, trying out for the cheer squad and learning how to drive.
01:11:19
It's so hard and I don't know how I'm doing it. I just think it's the grace of God, to be honest.
01:11:28
Instead, her family now holds on to the memories they had with her for 12 years.
01:11:33
The girl full of life who loved Hello Kitty and dreamed of becoming a nurse or doctor.
01:11:38
Like when I'm preparing plates, I still will prepare plates for three kids. That's like the hardest thing to, you know, man, man, Naomi and Jaden, come on, it's time to go. I still do that all the time.
01:11:51
It goes without saying that the story of Naomi Jones is a sad one. It's heartbreaking. It's devastating.
01:12:00
Not only because of the young life that was lost, but also because Naomi's story reveals a harsh truth about the world that we live in.
01:12:11
And it's a truth that Naomi's mom understands too well. Just because you have a neighbor, if you live in an apartment complex, and just because you see them in passing, it doesn't mean that you can trust them.
01:12:26
Naomi's mom has a very specific message about trusting neighbors and being wary of people that you frequently see in passing.
01:12:37
Frankly, it really sucks that this poor mother has to go around and make people aware of stranger danger.
01:12:47
But that is the world that we live in. Even more depressing, the story of Naomi Jones is a grim reminder that no matter how close we become to someone, and no matter how well we think we know them, we may not know them at all.
01:13:07
Robert Howard is a complete sociopath a pathological liar a rapist and a child murderer yet nobody around him Not even those closest to him saw the danger that he posed Despite his violent criminal past and not one but two rape convictions Robert was still able to mask the monster that he is
01:13:39
In fact, there was a moment in time that perfectly illustrates just how good he was at doing this.
01:13:47
After Robert murdered Naomi and before he dumped her body, he drove from Florida to Alabama toward his job.
01:13:57
Before arriving there, he made a stop to visit his secret girlfriend, Yolanda, who was in distress after having just left the funeral.
01:14:06
Yolanda sat in the passenger seat of Robert's car and shared her grief with him.
01:14:13
Robert consoled her. He was her shoulder to cry on. As she cried, Robert smiled, wiped away her tears, and told Yolanda that everything would be okay.
01:14:30
All the while Naomi dead body was lying in the back seat of his car hidden under a raincoat Robert didn visit Yolanda to help her He didn care about her feelings or have any real interest in helping her through a difficult time The reason Robert went to go
01:14:55
see Yolanda that day was because he wanted to establish a false alibi. He tried to use
01:15:04
a woman's grief to protect himself while the corpse of his 12-year-old murder victim
01:15:12
was in the back seat. Robert Howard is a monster and his ability to hide that fact
01:15:21
was almost effortless. All it took was a raincoat and a smile. Hey, check out the tons of new merch
01:16:02
at store.swordandscale.com. It's up now. Go look at it Stay safe Hey, guys. This is Danielle.
01:16:28
I was just listening to one of your shows yesterday, and you were pitching at us.
01:16:32
And I just think that it's so funny when you let it out on the air for us. And I'm just always curious, like, if you've ever, like, recorded a three-minute bitching session with us,
01:16:44
and then your editors are like, maybe a little bit too harsh today, Mike. And then you have to, like, redo it.
01:16:50
Maybe not. Either way, love the show. Love you. And keep it up. Keep fishing at us.
01:16:58
I kind of enjoy it. I laugh. Anyway. Bye. Let me answer your question, Danielle.
01:17:03
It happens every week. Thank you.