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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences.
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Listener discretion is advised. We were there when he was killed. No, sir, I was not at his house when that man was murdered, sir. I can't...
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This is the kind of shit that gets people in trouble. Oh my god, I know! Hello and welcome to Sword and Scale episode 328. Let's go.
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Thank you. 43-year-old Brad McGarry and 30-year-old David Kinney were friends for years.
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They met while working at a local coal mine in a small town of Ohio called Bel Air.
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Sounds nice, right? Don't get ahead of yourself, though. This is Ohio. Belair sits along the Ohio River and borders West Virginia,
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another stunning location, filled with PhDs. It's a place built on hard work, traditional values, and coal.
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Yeah, coal. The thing that's probably powering your iPhone. For generations, the mines, and the coal in it, shaped everything in Bel Air.
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Those mines offered steady work for anyone willing to face the challenges of being underground all day long.
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It's dangerous work, probably worth every penny and then some. But by 2017, these jobs were disappearing.
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Mines were shutting down, and operations were scaled back. Work became harder to find and harder to keep.
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For men like Brad McGarry and David Kinney, getting and keeping a job in the mines made them feel lucky.
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This is Detective Ryan Aller of Belmont County. Belair is one of our bigger municipalities in Belmont County.
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I wouldn't say it's a high crime rate, but compared to other parts of the county,
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There's a good bit of drug activity down there. There's been homicides in Blair before, but it's been quite some time.
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So a case like this is very shocking to our community. Brad McGarry wasn't just a friend to David.
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He was a family friend, sharing holidays, family dinners, and afternoons at each other's homes.
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To David's kids, Brad was known as Uncle Brad because they loved and trusted him.
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Brad was single, so he appreciated the opportunity to feel part of a full-blown family
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And both David and his wife Sherry were happy to have Uncle Brad Sherry felt almost like she had two responsible men in her life
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She was a young single mom when she and David met David was young too, but in no time they married and he became a father to her three kids
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By 2017, they'd been together for 10 years and Brad had been part of the family picture for about six years.
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On May 7, 2017, David, Sherry, and their 13-year-old daughter drove half an hour from their town of Brilliant to Brad's Bel Air home,
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a 1950s ranch sitting almost at the end of a residential dead-end street. They were stopping by to give Brad a weed trimmer.
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It was a small gift to repay for some things he'd done for them. Brad was like that. He was a really helpful, good friend.
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Those are hard to come by. So they pull into the driveway, the gravel crunching under the truck's tires.
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It's a typical quiet Sunday afternoon. Sherry shifts in her seat and takes her seatbelt off while David exits the truck.
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As they're doing this, they immediately notice that the kitchen door is open. Just slightly, but it's not normal.
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it's not like Brad to just leave it open like that David scrunches his face squinting towards the house
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but their 13 year old daughter is excited to see Uncle Brad so she darts from the truck
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stay here Sherry says automatically but the girl's already halfway to the porch where she waits
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but peers inside meanwhile David starts calling Brad because he's afraid something is off
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Brad's phone rings unanswered Sherry watches David try again, holding his phone up and listening to empty ringing on the other end.
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She follows her daughter up the steps, and her adrenaline is pumping. The door swings inward with a soft creak under her hand.
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Inside, she sees chaos. Yanked open drawers and gaping cabinets. Papers and belongings were scattered like someone had ransacked the place in a hurry.
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At that point, Sherry is scared and reaches for David's arm. Go get your gun, she whispers.
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David doesn't argue. He turns back towards the truck moving fast but controlled Sherry stands frozen in the doorway one arm thrown out to hold her daughter back Her daughter looks at her in sheer terror
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What's happening, Mom? David comes back with his firearm at his side. His face is tight and pale.
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She's not used to seeing her tall, rugged husband in this state. He tells her to stay there. He's going inside to check.
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Sherry doesn't move, gripping her daughter's shoulders. She wants to run out, but she can't make herself move.
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She's frozen, like a rabbit in headlights. David's footsteps creak on the basement stairs.
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A second passes, then another. Then, suddenly, she hears his panicked voice from the basement.
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Call 911, he shouts. Stay here. Stay here. Come here. What's this road? What's this road?
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Montmart County, 911. Where is your emergency? Hi. We have an emergency. I don't know. Why don't we stay there?
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Where are you at? We, in West Valera. I don't even know the road. Right next to Frenzy. You come all the way back and up the hill.
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Okay, what's going on? I don't even know. You don't know what's going on? Where's he at?
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Oh, my God. My husband's truck is dead. What? Ma'am. It's a big job sign. Ma'am.
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We're at West Belair. We came to visit my husband's friend, and his back door was cracked open.
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And he wasn't answering his phone, so we came in to help, and he's in his basement.
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The dispatcher tries to make sense of what's unfolding on Wagner Avenue, but Sherry is struggling to process it herself.
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Okay. Oh, my God. Okay, calm down. Did you say he's dead? I think so. Oh, my God. I think so.
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Okay, ma'am. Does it look like something happened to him? Does it look like he fell?
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He's on the floor. There's blood everywhere. Okay, what is your name? My name is Sherry Kinney.
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Sherry Kinney? Yeah, his back door was cracked open. My husband locked in, and there was stuff all over the place in the kitchen.
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Okay, Sherry, I need you to try to find me an address. Can you do that? Oh, God.
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I don't even know what street we're on. This place is like extra for these markets.
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What's the address on the house? The questions keep coming from the operator, but the whole scene is disorienting for Sherry.
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She's still trying to make sense of the chaos around her when the most critical question of all waits in the background.
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Is he dead? Oh my God, he's just laying there. Okay, sweetheart, listen to me, okay?
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Does the back door look like it was forced open? No, it's his kitchen door. His kitchen door? Does it look like it was cracked open?
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Yeah. It wasn't forced open? I don't know. I don't know. Okay. I don't know what I need to do.
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Go in here. Okay. It was just cracked. I don't know if it was forced entry. Sherry.
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Oh, I know. Sherry. Sherry. Is he breathing? Is he breathing? I don't think he's breathing.
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It was looking like they were too late, and Brad was indeed dead. But how did this happen?
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Did he fall down the stairs, or was there a struggle? What is his name? Brad McGarry.
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Brad McGarry? Brad McGarry. Okay, is that your husband? My husband's freaking out, yes.
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Okay, okay, all right. Oh, he has a, oh my God, he has a gunshot wound in the back of his head.
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He has a gunshot wound? Okay, Sherry, Sherry, Sherry, Sherry, Sherry, I need you to calm down.
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Is there a gun near him? I can't see one. Okay, ask your husband if he saw a gun lying on the floor.
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No, I don't see one. You don't see a gun? No, I don't see a gun. Okay. Okay. All right, I need you guys, listen, I need you and your husband to back out of the residence
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and wait outside for the officers. Do you hear me? Okay. Okay. I'm going outside.
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You both are going to need to go wait outside. Okay, we're outside. Okay. There were a lot of unanswered questions.
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Apparently Brad knew they were going to stop by, and David spoke with him on that very day.
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But then he didn't answer his phone, so the Kinneys were already on alert. Brad was good at communicating, and it just wasn't like him to ignore calls.
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Okay, I know you're upset, and I know that this is a horrible, horrible thing, okay?
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I need you to try to calm down for me, okay? Okay. I know. When was the last time you guys spoke with him?
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When was the last time you guys spoke with him? When was the last time you talked to him, DJ?
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He talked to him earlier. He went to a wedding over the weekend. He was on his way back from his mom.
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He talked to him. Okay, so that was today? Yeah, it was earlier today and he told him that we would be coming down and he could just come down whenever.
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Okay all right Do you remember what time earlier today you spoke with him What time was it that you talked to him Do you remember It gonna be on his cell phone
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Okay. All I know is we asked my husband if he has this kid so curious. Do you have your gun? Brad wasn't answering his phone and he came with yelling and he wasn't saying anything.
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So he went to his truck and got his gun in just a case, you know, because he was scared of himself.
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It's not like Brad wants to answer his phone. Okay. And then, oh, God. Does your husband still have his gun out?
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On his side, yeah. Okay. He has to kill Terry. Terry just, you know, Terry just was action for us for being that he wasn't answering.
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And the door was cracked open. and we, you know, he got it because he was scared of himself.
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Remember, kids, if you're ever at a crime scene and you have a gun on you, let the 911 operator know for the safety of everyone.
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Okay, the officer is out there, okay? He's here, yeah. Make sure you tell the officer that your husband has a gun on his side, okay?
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All right. Hey, I just want to let you know he has a gun. I'm going to get to carry, but...
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All right, thank you. Okay, talk with the officer, okay? As first responders secured the scene,
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the question wasn't how Brad McGarry died. It was who would want him dead. In May of 2017, Brad McGarry, a resident in the quiet town of Bolero, Ohio, was found
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dead in the basement of his home, face down, surrounded by blood, with what appeared to
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be a gunshot wound to his head. My name is Ryan Aller. I'm the chief of investigations at the Belmont County Sheriff's Office.
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I've been with the Sheriff's Office since 1996. I've been a detective since 2005.
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You know, Brad was a coal miner. He had a couple other careers. He seemed to be happy with that job.
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He was very well liked by his friends and family. They say that he had a very outgoing personality, kind of lit up any room he walked into, loved being the center of attention.
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Nobody I talked to, not a single soul, had a single bad thing to say about him, which I can't always say about the victims that we have.
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one of the things any good detective will do is they try to get to know their victims,
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even if they're deceased. And that's one of the most important things to do. Try to get inside the head of your victim, try to know them. And sometimes you don't really like
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your victims. They're not the best people in the world. But I think I would have liked Brad.
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It was his friend David Kinney and his wife Sherry who made the discovery As detectives started to dig deeper
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they uncovered parts of Brad's life that no one had talked about and people who might have wanted him gone
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One of the first leads that came in was from a local cab driver He told police that a woman he knew named Courtney
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had asked him for a ride to Wagner Avenue Her plan, she said, was to rob a man she claimed had contacted her
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through a Craigslist modeling ad. According to this guy, the man was going to give her $500 for nude pictures of her.
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But the deal changed when he added that he'd like to see the pictures of her three-year-old child as well.
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Courtney saved his number in her phone under the name Baby Raper. She told the cab driver the man was sick and that he deserved whatever was coming.
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It was the kind of lead investigators just couldn't ignore. But when they interviewed her further, Courtney said she didn't go through with it.
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The cab driver said he refused to drive her because he'd been drinking that night.
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She said she deleted the messages, but she gave the police the man's phone number.
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And when they traced the number, it led them right back to Bel Air. Close enough that police had to wonder,
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was Brad McGarry living a life no one knew about? Was he indeed the baby raper on her phone?
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Or were they just chasing the wrong lead entirely? Detectives started digging and discovered that Brad would probably be the last person
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who would ask for naked pictures. Courtney's story fell apart too. Phone numbers didn't match.
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She gave the wrong street and she was just kind of a sketchy witness all around.
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With that lead fading fast, detectives turned to the people who knew Brad best, starting with Brad and Sherry.
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When was the last time they saw Brad? Well, it was just a day before, a Saturday.
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What'd you guys do when you got there? Brad made pizza and we all had some pizza.
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Went down to the basement was talking about the two spare rooms in the back He was planning on we tore all the drywall out of the one room piled a bunch of stuff up in there and we were talking about how to dry lock it and you know start getting stuff done because he had a company he wanted to come in to put
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rug down and stuff. And I got down there and BS'd about that, come upstairs, play with
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the dogs, you know, my son and I just, we just hung out, the normal thing you can do
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at your buddy's house. Your son hang out there a lot? He goes with me. What's he do while you're there?
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He usually just hangs out with us. okay I got a house full of girls he's the only boy
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so a lot of times it's hey dad can I go understood that was Saturday May 6th they hung out
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and then Brad took off for a wedding that evening when it was over he stayed with his family
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overnight and he called David just to check in he called me that night when he got back
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to his mom's house and we just he asked about the wedding and then he called me the next day
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Did he stay at his mom's house? Yes. Or his mom's or his grandmother's house. I'm not sure which house he stayed at.
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Now we're on a Sunday, right? Yes. On Sunday, the day of Brad's murder, Brad was excited to get home.
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The Kinneys had told him they'd be bringing him a gift. Because I was out running around.
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Me and my wife did our normal Sunday thing throughout the day. What's that? He texted me again.
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Hey or hello. I texted hey he said don't forget my surprise I said we'll be bringing it
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out when was that probably about well he texted me I would say it was probably one
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something and I didn't get right back to him right away I think by the time I actually
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got back to text him back it was like three o'clock quarter after three or something
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like that I told him we'll be bringing it out I told him stop by drive by no one's
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home call me whenever you get home will come out. So where were you and your wife at Sunday afternoon?
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We went to Chinese restaurant, got some lunch after we hung out at the house. What Chinese restaurant?
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In Stupendville. Are you guys close to Stupendville? Yeah. I'll try to get the geography.
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Yes. Like I said, 15 minutes. I've only been to go even once. We're like 15 minutes south of Stupendville.
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She and David had breakfast with the kids, then ran a quick errand to stop and pick up hair dye at Sally's Beauty in Steubenville.
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Steubenville? Am I saying that right? Who cares? It's Ohio. Anyway, they came home, and shortly after,
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David said he had to go help a friend whose car had broken down, and he wanted to stop by Rural King,
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a farm supply store, just to look around. Then David brought up the weed trimmer.
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And then I talked to a friend of mine, and then I went and I went and was going to go to Royal King,
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look at some trailers, get a truck. I did a little bit of running. Did you go there?
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Yeah. We did, I just did my running I wanted to do. So you drove from your home in Brilliant to Royal King?
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Yes, sir. Was your wife with you? No, sir. Okay. And this was probably about 1, 4, maybe about a quarter till 2.
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Okay. and uh and i left she went back home by you went back to brilliant yeah i was back home
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i think it was like three i was back home about three o'clock when david got back home his wife
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was dying her hair they decided to drive back over to brad's thinking he'd be home from the wedding
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by then his daughter wanted to go with them because brad's dog had a litter of puppies
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she hadn't seen. And Sherry wanted Brad to see her new hair color. Why, you ask?
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Would a male family friend be interested in her hair? Oh, well, that's easy. You see, despite the fact that
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he now worked in a mine, he had a job before that. He was a hairdresser. And yes, Brad was gay.
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Since the Kinneys knew this and the detective was asking about Brad's relationships, David had this to say.
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I can tell you of one person I know that Brad would call on a basis to... Who's that?
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Uh... Should be a minute. Uh, Richard. Or Richie. Is he like a fuck buddy or boyfriend?
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I think it was more along the lines of just a fuck buddy. Okay. And that's who he was with recently?
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I don't know if he was with him recently. I just know that they would... Brad would call him when he wanted him to come over.
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Were you ever there when he came over? I think I was there once when he came by.
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What do you look like? Uh, medium height, athletic belt, some tattoos. And then there was a young guy named Scotty.
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Friends and family described Scotty as Brad's ex, someone he was involved with not long before the murder.
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According to them, it didn't end well. Scotty had a drug problem and legal issues, and Brad didn't need that in his life.
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Scotty wasn't happy when they broke up and even made some veiled threats. It looked like detectives might have found their suspect.
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But when they tracked Scotty down, he was already in jail, locked up for a probation violation.
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And that's where he was. for the whole weekend of murder. Whatever happened to Brad, it wasn't Scotty.
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The more detectives questioned David, the more they found out about Brad and his relationships.
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Investigators had already spoken with Brad's friends and family, and they all hinted at yet another romantic involvement.
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Someone Brad talked incessantly about during the weekend of the wedding. But David didn't seem to be aware of this person, or at least he didn't let on that he knew.
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Our family got real close. We did holidays and gatherings and everything together.
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Your wife, too? Yes, sir. But you came over for, like, what, Christmas and stuff?
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Christmas, Thanksgiving, Easter, we did the same with him. Which kid's going? Uncle Brad.
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This was a breaking point for David. His kids called Brad uncle. He was part of the family, and he was David's best friend.
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The numbness was wearing off for David now, and the realization was setting in that Brad was gone forever.
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Are we forever? It's okay. First huge being a cry. I'm just trying so hard to...
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It's okay. It's alright. Take some deep breaths. I think you have. The detective had obviously seen people cry before,
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but it seemed like David had been holding a whole lot of tears back for some reason.
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He was a big lumberjack-looking guy, at least six feet tall, but in the police station he was reduced to the sobs of a child over the loss of his best friend.
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You guys are pretty close, weren't you? Yes, sir. What, uh... How close were you and Brad?
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Very close. How close were you guys? We were very close. I was my best friend. Have you ever lost a best friend?
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I'm sure it's really hard. But being best friends with someone and being really close to them are two kind of very different things.
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David, you're some... There's some stuff on your fence, a little questionable. Yes, sir.
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Kind of sounds like you and Brad were boyfriend, boyfriend. Oh, no, sir. We weren't boyfriend, boyfriend.
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It was... I think he kind of shocked us. Did you guys have sex together? There's a few times in the past where, you know, he's attempted a lot.
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and we've kind of pulled around a little bit in the past. It's okay. But was it okay?
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David was married with kids, a wife, and a life built around routine and appearances.
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Brad was his best friend. According to detectives, that part didn't matter. This wasn't about judgment.
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It was about honesty. Hey, look. I'm being old. What year is it? Well, this is between us, okay?
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Yes, sir. There's some stuff on your phone. Anybody know about you guys? My wife does that.
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We fooled around before. I mean, that was... When was the last time you guys fooled around?
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It's been a while. It hasn't been recently. I know that. Say what's on your phone?
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The video you took of the guys having sex? Is that Brad and you or? Video, I tell you.
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Yeah, it's all your fan. The machine he uses. Yes, sir, I understand. It brings all the devices and stuff.
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It will suck the whole phone out and eat the stuff you deleted. Yes, sir, I understand.
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There's some text messages, too. Yes, sir, I understand. The text messages paint a picture of a whole lot more than friendship.
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Put it that way. It was a very deep, deep friendship, if you catch my drift. They were fucking, basically.
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Not only did David try to minimize the activities in their relationship, but he also denied that these activities were sex.
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When was the last time you had sex with him? We never had sex. We would just put around with each other.
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We'd just like some each other. He would jerk me off and I would jerk him off and he would bug him at me.
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Okay. I never had a bad blowjob at something to be ashamed about. Are you ashamed about it?
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I'm sorry. For what? My wife doesn't know. What does it know? I'm sorry. Was Brad in love with you, David?
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So they told each other casually love you bud I don't know, but maybe that's what bros do in 2017.
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I'm really not sure. I'm really too old for that. But all the other stuff, I'll tell you right now, that's not something bros do.
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Pretty sure. Pretty sure about that one. the next question the detective asked was even more personal and would be an essential part
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of the investigation there's a used condom in his trash can that's going to the lab
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oh yes sir i have a feeling your dna is gonna be on that condom oh no sir no you sure yes sir
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Never? No, sir. So Brad and David may have been fooling around, to put it lightly.
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But DNA analysis confirmed he was telling the truth. The contents of the condoms were someone else's.
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Maybe Richie, a guy Brad would call sometimes for company. And it wasn't like Brad was slutting around.
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In fact, he didn't want another boyfriend. He wanted David. But David asked him to find boyfriends from time to time, almost like decoys, to keep people from knowing about the two of them.
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So the police would check into this Richie lead and anyone else who might have been there recently.
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But for now, the detectives would squeeze as much as they could out of David. How many times? For how long?
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It was off and on for a long time. It was just kind of like a... Did he ever tell you had feelings for you?
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No. It was a while back he came out. It was me and my wife both. Me and my wife even knew.
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He came out to the end. At one point in time, I did have feelings for him. He said, I understand that you're marrying new kids.
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My wife was part of that whole situation. Does she know you guys ever did anything together?
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When was the last time you guys didn't do anything together? um it's been a little while
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when asked to clarify it turns out that a little means a few weeks if you believe him that is
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and when asked the burning question David said that one thing was off limits at least that's what he said
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then again he lied a lot to his wife and kid. To everyone, actually. You ever had any
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butt sex? No, sir. The one thing that was kind of big, he tried to get me and I told him
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I didn't want to. He tried to? He asked me to. To do him in the butt? No, he just asked me to
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have sex. Oh. He never got to that point. Never? No, sir. Okay. Well, so you sure it's not going to be your DNA on that?
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Yes, sir. I mean, you realize that it is or it isn't. The detective was good at making David relax.
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Probably not as good as Brad was, but I digress. He needed all the information to get to the bottom of what was becoming a mystery.
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No detail was untouchable, as personal and as explicit as it might be. But there was one thing that David was particularly concerned about.
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his wife finding out. And this was odd because all of Brad's friends seemed to think
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she already knew about her husband's affair with him. I don't know who would have told you that she knows.
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Four different people. Unrelated. No, sir. Brad told them. No, sir. Brad told them this.
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No, sir. Brad lost all that weight because he wanted to keep you. No, sir. My wife has no idea about this.
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Brad, why didn't you leave her? No, sir. This interview made soap operas seem boring.
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So Brad is in love with David, and David is married to a woman with kids. David and Brad are best friends, though, and David appreciates the friendship as well as the favors Brad does for him.
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Cookouts, holidays, and barbecues, a little smoke, and a lot of heat. But the interrogation room was a pressure cooker,
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and the detective was about to crank it up to 11. David was brought in as a witness,
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but he was starting to look like something else. You got this wall. Oh, that's not my hand on that guy's ass having sex or thing.
00:34:50
But look, is there some other dude with your tattoo? No, sir, you showed me that picture.
00:34:55
I could hear it. Yeah. I wish you would. It's coming. I picture of it. It's coming.
00:34:59
I'll show you. It's you. Oh my god. That's good. But it's you. I mean, do you think I'm making this shit up?
00:35:09
No, sir, but I've never taken any pictures of me having sex with somebody. I have pictures of my family fucking my wife.
00:35:16
David was telling the truth about that. The picture the detective was describing happened to be a picture of David having sex with his wife.
00:35:25
Not a man. easy to mistake I guess depending on the angle yikes so far David hadn't confessed
00:35:38
the killer may have been someone else but David still had some explaining to do and it was complicated when he had so much more to hide so you you drove by his house you didn't
00:35:52
Yes sir I drove by his house and he was not home I put it in my phone sir I swear to God Listen you drove by He wasn home How long were you there I wasn there that long How long
00:36:06
I don't know. This is... Oh, my God, sir. You're telling me you just drove by. Did you stop at all?
00:36:14
I drove by the house. I pulled off. He was not home. We're talking seconds, minutes.
00:36:20
A couple minutes? That's it. Yes, sir. I even sat there on my phone. I sat there on my phone.
00:36:26
David said this occurred after he went to Rural King. He stopped by Brad's, waited around for a few minutes, and then went home.
00:36:35
You guys really think? Okay. David. Okay. Okay. You guys really think? Seriously?
00:36:52
I'm not going to tell you a thing. I'm going to tell you, David, look at me. I'm going to tell you I know.
00:36:59
I knew you had something to do with grass death. How could you do it? What else could it be?
00:37:05
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yes, sir, I understand how this looks. I've known the man eight years.
00:37:12
Right now, there's GPS in your whole day. I've known the man eight years. How long you were at that house.
00:37:19
I'm going to tell you right now, this is your chance to get in front of this. Yes, sir.
00:37:23
You're not the type of guy that would do something like that. No, sir, I would not kill him.
00:37:28
There's got to be something to it. There's got to be a reason. Oh, my God. I would not do this.
00:37:33
I would not do this. Dave, you're a father. Yes, sir. You're a husband. Yes, sir.
00:37:39
You can get in front of this and tell me what the hell happened. I've got to put it together.
00:37:42
Oh, my God. We got it all. It's all on the phone. I know, sir. We're there. Oh, God.
00:37:48
We know exactly when he was killed. Yes, sir, I know. You were there when he was killed.
00:37:55
No, sir, I was not at his house when that man was murdered, sir. I can't... This is the kind of shit that gets people in trouble.
00:38:01
Oh, my God, I know. So you had to get with it. Sir, what do you want me... I'll tell you anything.
00:38:08
I don't know what happened. Why? Oh, my God. What are you telling me? There's nothing I'm not telling you.
00:38:15
I did not kill Brad. I did not kill Brad. Did your wife kill Brad? Oh, my God, no.
00:38:21
What the hell's going on? Oh! I don't know about the rest of you fellow cis males out there,
00:38:29
but listening to Mr. Mackey here wail uncontrollably is a little uncomfortable. Either David was hiding something huge or he was the killer.
00:38:42
By the way, what are the awards soap operas give out? The Daytime Emmys? David gets a Daytime Emmy.
00:38:50
remember how a minute ago he said i'll tell you everything he was just about to do that
00:38:56
but what i saw there what i read what i've been trained to read yes sir what i saw what i believe
00:39:03
is somebody panicked and opened all the doors in the house to make it look like something and it
00:39:08
was like shit shit shit shit what do i do yes sir but i want you to look me straight in the eye
00:39:12
You and I are going to tell you, if you had anything to do with Brad's death, we will bring you to jail.
00:39:24
I know. So listen to me now. And listen to me good like you never listened to anybody in your whole life.
00:39:30
You understand? Yes, sir. I'm probably going to get a lot of grief over this, but I've got a theory.
00:39:35
I think it might have been an accident. David is unraveling. But even now, he denies that he killed Brad.
00:39:43
Instead, he starts to talk about that day. And now it sounds like maybe there's more to this than anyone realized.
00:39:52
Brad called me. He wanted me to meet up with him at his house before me and the wife and kids came out.
00:39:59
Great. So I went to his house and I sat there and I waited on him and I waited on him.
00:40:04
And he shows up. He had another guy with him. Great. I don't know who he was. I don't know his name.
00:40:16
I swear on everything that's fucking holding right now. What happened? He was...
00:40:23
He got out of the car. I could walk him over. Rats of the bra unload. Unload the back of his BMW.
00:40:34
Then what happened? This is the horror part, isn't it? David, let it go. I can't.
00:40:41
Look at me. Let it go. You'll get it off that chest. You'll feel better, I guarantee it.
00:40:49
God. You heard a gunshot? You heard a gunshot? Yes, sir. Then what happened? I went running back to my car.
00:41:00
Uh-huh. And the guy came running out of the garage. Okay. And he got into Brad's BMW.
00:41:07
Okay. And then I left. Oh, okay. Okay. I'm so scared. It's okay. He knew what I looked like.
00:41:20
My vehicle was there. I did not know what to do. At one point after Detective Alar
00:41:26
hears about the third person, he turns towards the camera and makes a what-the-fuck kind of face.
00:41:33
So one of the first stories he gave me was, oh, well, I was there, and this mysterious person was with Brad and I heard a gunshot so I left and I'm like okay
00:41:46
well David I said so you hear a gunshot your dear friend's inside you think something's going on so
00:41:53
you leave you go home you get your wife and kid and come back And he like uh well this is what happened So then he like well I was in the basement and this guy got out of Brad car and you
00:42:10
know, uh, he just went crazy and he shot Brad and he put a gun to my head and told me if
00:42:15
I said anything, I'm next. I'm like, okay. so you go home you leave there this mysterious one-armed man and he didn't really have one arm
00:42:27
in the story that's a that's a reference to the fugitive i said so he says so so this guy
00:42:35
kills brad tells him he's going to kill you and you leave he's like yeah i said so you go home
00:42:41
and get your family and come back to find Brad's body? Why? It was still possible that David had just been a bystander.
00:42:50
But with every new detail, that was less and less likely. So quarter till 10 till 1.
00:42:56
Oh, God. I kept saying, I need to call the cops. I need to call the cops. I need to call the cops.
00:43:02
I didn't know what happened. Look at me. I'm a cop. You're telling me now. Oh, my God.
00:43:09
Do you know why this guy shot Brad? It was time to call David out on his bullshit.
00:43:34
This guy wasn't there. Where did he go? What else would I... You got to show a while, bud.
00:43:42
No, sir, I swear to God, sir. I swear to God. I'll keep going with you because you're going to get struck by lightning.
00:43:49
Oh, my God. This is all fucking coming down on me now. Because you did it. No, sir, I did not kill my fucking best friend.
00:43:58
Hey, David. Listen, like I told you, I was all with you there for a while. Sir, I did not kill my best friend.
00:44:05
You're going to insult me. I did not kill him. I never did. Sir, I don't know. No, sir.
00:44:12
You sure? Yes, sir. I'm going to have to go ask her. No, sir, that's fine. The detective was using every tactic he had,
00:44:19
and still, David insisted that he wasn't Brad's killer. I mean, let's love each other.
00:44:26
Two guys having a beer in a bar. What the fuck? What the fuck indeed. I mean, you can do whatever you want,
00:44:36
and I hope you have the right to do whatever you want, and all of the rights that everyone else has, of course, but still.
00:44:44
Ew! Right? Next, he points out that the chief of police lives on Brad Street and happens to have cameras everywhere.
00:44:56
He tells Brad that if he pulls out that footage, he's pretty sure he'll see a BMW pull into the driveway,
00:45:02
and Brad will be in it, but the seat next to him will be empty. He had just given David numerous opportunities to be truthful.
00:45:12
His life actually depended on it. But David just wouldn't be straight with him. Pun intended.
00:45:19
I'm not talking because I like to hear him talk. I mean, this is serious goddamn shit.
00:45:24
You gotta see that the things you keep telling me, and listen, I'm at the point now,
00:45:31
I don't think that you're telling me this stuff because you care about what I think.
00:45:38
I'm going to tell you something. I still hope you're not an ass. I'm going to take it.
00:45:44
You can't admit it to yourself what happened because you immediately made up this
00:45:48
grandier story right away. You believed it. You believed it. You made yourself believe it
00:45:55
because you can't live with yourself about what happened. Because he was your best friend
00:46:00
and you loved him. He was more than your friend. He was your heart, wasn't he? Me and Brad loved each other, but...
00:46:06
You loved you with my heart. You loved this man, and there's no shame in it. You understand?
00:46:13
There ain't no shame in loving somebody. No matter what color they are, they got a dick or three pussies.
00:46:19
It doesn't matter. You love them, you love them. Those are some pearls of wisdom right there.
00:46:25
Finally, it seemed like David was ready to confront himself and tell the detectives what actually happened.
00:46:32
Tell me what happened. probably me and Brad we were really close I know I love them
00:46:42
not like I do my wife you know what I mean I know I love them what happened I want you to know
00:46:51
before I didn't shoot him I did not shoot him tell me what happened somebody did you
00:47:01
tell me what happened David tells them that while he's at Brad's, a man he doesn't know comes into the place and starts an argument.
00:47:10
And Brad accuses him of taking money. It turns violent. Listen, I'm going to run this bullshit down.
00:47:16
You can run this bullshit down, but I'm going to tell you, sir. It looks like a...
00:47:20
I don't want to shoot him. I can't bring myself to shoot anybody unless my life is threatened, okay?
00:47:26
There was a big fucking argument between whose dick is bigger and the money. Okay?
00:47:31
with, is this guy real? Yes, sir. Yes, sir, that guy is real. He and Brad have argued about it before.
00:47:42
I'm assuming he means that he and Brad argued about this guy before. I wonder what they
00:47:47
argued about. Nah, sure. In any case, it was another false lead. The detective was, again,
00:47:55
sure that footage would show only two people on 358 Wagner knew that day. Brad and David. This was a personal issue between the two of them, and
00:48:06
Detective Villar had a theory. It involved stolen money, which was one of the few truths
00:48:13
in David's story. This is some fucking TV movie of the shit stuff here. Yes, sir.
00:48:19
Don't worry. Here's what I think happened. Anything that this guy here that you're coming
00:48:27
up with and creating okay i'm thinking this is you putting all your guilt into this guy because
00:48:35
you can't live with yourself for what happened brad's mad at this guy and you're mad at this
00:48:39
guy for stealing brad's money brad accused you of stealing his money if you did or didn't it's
00:48:44
irrelevant but brad accused you of taking your money you are so upset that demanding love thought
00:48:50
accused you and he's dead, then you totally dumped all your guilt and your accountability into this dude
00:48:59
who doesn't exist. Yes, sir. Okay. That's some crazy shit, man. I ain't never seen anybody so upset
00:49:07
or sick of themselves that they went to this extreme. It's crazy. Sir, I didn't shoot you.
00:49:13
This was yet another lie. And there was still one lie left. This one, David hadn't said out loud.
00:49:23
Not yet, anyway. Two men in Ohio. David is straight, allegedly, married and has children,
00:49:59
and his best friend Brad is gay. Somewhere along the way, their friendship crosses a line into a sexual affair.
00:50:07
All of Brad's friends know this DJ, this man Brad is in love with. But is David in love with Brad?
00:50:16
This may never be known. He claims he loves him, but not like he loves his wife.
00:50:22
They all say David's wife is on to the whole thing. But David insists she knows nothing other than David confessing to her
00:50:30
that Brad has told him how he feels about him. But hey, honey, no worries, he tells her.
00:50:37
I'm not going anywhere, and there's nothing going on between us. Winky face, winky face.
00:50:43
Now Brad is dead. and it's looking very much like David is the killer. At the very least, he was present during the time of the murder
00:50:53
so he's either guilty of being an accomplice since he waited to call police or he's just guilty all the way around.
00:51:01
In any case, he knew Brad was lying face down in a pool of blood dead of gunshot wounds to his head in his basement.
00:51:10
And what does David do? He takes his wife and younger daughter to the house pretending he doesn't know any of this.
00:51:17
He subjects his young daughter to the trauma of seeing dead Uncle Brad. But after all the stories and all the lies,
00:51:25
Detective Alar was closing in. And David was about to reveal the final version of his truth.
00:51:34
You took your own daughter past the body of a man you knew that was dead. And maybe, I don't know if your wife's involved with it or not yet.
00:51:42
okay we're gonna find out we're gonna find this out very shortly do you understand
00:51:50
I told you I'm gonna look you in the eye and tell you if I had to tell her about you
00:51:55
and Brad or not I heard she already knows that's what I kept being told today and listen
00:52:01
people I'm talking to my team's talking to they don't know each other it's like Brad's friend
00:52:09
from when he was a hairdresser and he worked at a gym salon that doesn't know brad's cousin who came in
00:52:17
from florida who uh talked to brad about all the problems he's having with you at the wedding
00:52:24
okay and wait for it brad abruptly leaves his dinner with his family saying he's going to meet
00:52:33
guess who? Who's he going to meet? Yes, sir. He's not going to pick up another dude
00:52:39
to bring to your house. He says he's going to meet with you because he wants to have sex with you.
00:52:45
You heard Detective Alar ask if David's wife, Sherry, was involved. That brings in a whole
00:52:51
new layer of suspicion. Though she was never brought in as a suspect, there could only be one
00:52:57
reason she would know about this and go along with her husband having a gay affair.
00:53:03
The reason is the same reason people have been doing shady things for millennia Do I have to spell it out Yeah yeah yeah it money it money The root of all evil you know all that Apparently Brad paid for all kinds of things
00:53:19
for the Kinney family, not just for David. He provided elaborate birthday parties for
00:53:25
the kids, bought them household gifts, took them out to eat a lot. And get this.
00:53:31
So one of the things we found out was that Brad was essentially a part of David's family.
00:53:42
The kids called him Uncle Brad. He paid for a lot of things for the Kennys, vacations, birthday parties, things of that nature.
00:53:52
both Sherry and David told us that they were getting ready to go on a cruise together, all of them together.
00:53:59
You know, which you think, you know, you're going on a cruise with your wife and your lover at the same time.
00:54:05
That made us kind of wonder about Sherry. You know, did she know this was going on?
00:54:12
So while Sherry's involvement is unconfirmed to this day, that gun is smoking. Speaking of guns, it definitely did not go down the way Brad described.
00:54:24
That was his last lie. Trying to say that Brad was waving it at him and he felt threatened.
00:54:30
So he took the gun from him. But then what? The threat is gone, right? No more gun pointing at him.
00:54:37
So why shoot him? Not once, but twice. That's too hard, you know, when it was like our situation.
00:54:48
I love my wife and kids to death. You love Brad, too? I did. I mean, real tight, man.
00:54:56
Real tight. Sometimes you think about leaving your wife for him? Okay. I told him numerous times, and I'm not going to leave my wife.
00:55:05
And they kind of come to the conclusion that he understood. Okay. But I told him, I said,
00:55:15
things are going to have to start to stop. No doubt it was hard, as David put it.
00:55:24
But self-defense was out of the question. He tried to allege that Brad was slapping him around
00:55:30
before pointing the gun in his direction. Keep in mind that Brad was about a foot shorter than David.
00:55:36
And not only was David a big guy, a bear, you might say, he was also rugged and muscular, unlike Brad.
00:55:44
All he had to do was walk out of the house. I told him, I said, I'm done. I'm not doing this anymore, I'm done.
00:56:19
David claimed that Brad was guilt-tripping him and accusing him of playing with his emotions.
00:56:24
That he couldn't believe he wouldn't leave his wife. David claimed he never said anything different than that.
00:56:32
And Brad always knew. Maybe parts of this version were true. Maybe David was the man arguing with Brad.
00:56:40
Brad wanted him to leave his wife, but David refused. and rather than split up and risk their relationship being outed,
00:56:48
he shot him in the head. It's also possible that David was milking Brad for everything he had,
00:56:54
including stealing money from him. Someone had stolen money, but the culprit was never proven.
00:57:02
And maybe Brad finally called him out on his thievery. Why'd you shoot him? He was coming at me with his gun, man.
00:57:10
What? I thought you said you took his gun from him. I did. So you had another gun?
00:57:16
No, the Derringer. Oh. You take his gun from him. Yes, sir. You said you shot him.
00:57:21
Yes, sir. Tell me why you shot him. I felt threatened. I'm not going to lie to you.
00:57:27
He claimed, I'm not going to lie to you. Not only did David sit there for hours and hours telling one lie after another,
00:57:34
but his whole life was a lie. His whole marriage was tainted. with lies. If he felt threatened,
00:57:43
it was because he was scared he couldn't have his way. Scared his wife would leave him.
00:57:49
Or scared of admitting that maybe he was actually gay. Gasp. I don't know if you know it or not,
00:57:56
but it's 2025. Nobody gives a shit. Do whatever you want. Maybe just don't lie to your family
00:58:03
and make them live a whole lie that they don't even know about. You know, be a decent human being.
00:58:12
Detective Alar promised David he'd let him know if he had to tell his wife about the affair,
00:58:18
assuming she didn already know Well that time had come It was time to tell his wife What the hell is going on
00:58:30
I need to know that you have my back. And that everything I'm doing to you is the truth from here, okay?
00:58:37
And I love you and the kids. And I don't want you to be there for me, okay? Brad had another gun at the house.
00:58:46
He had a 22-year-old. I went to Brad's house to meet up with him after the wedding.
00:58:55
He was fighting with me because he had some money. Come up this, and I didn't take no money off of Brad.
00:59:00
I never stole money from Brad. He always gave me money. You're about to be focused.
00:59:05
Just listen to me. I went to his house, and I told him, I said, listen, from here on out, it's just Brad and Judy.
00:59:12
It can't be anything more else because Brad is, You know how Brad was with me. Okay?
00:59:20
He flipped out. Listen to me. Please just let me talk, Sherry. Will you please let me talk?
00:59:27
He flipped out on me. He grabbed a .22 derringer. Before he even did that, he slapped me around a little bit
00:59:35
after I told him this was it. Okay? You are a fucking kid. Listen. I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
00:59:45
He came at me with that gun, okay? He came at me with that gun because I told him he wants me to leave you guys.
00:59:53
I told him now that he'd come at me with that gun. I didn't know. No, no. Sherry, I was fucking scared.
01:00:02
I didn't know what to do. I was scared. I didn't know what to do. She knew. She knew.
01:00:10
You can tell. she may have been lying to herself and everyone around her but she knew
01:00:17
deep down David was scared but he wasn't scared of Brad he was scared of everything but Brad
01:00:26
he continued to lie repeatedly to his wife for the next half an hour only admitting what she probably already knew
01:00:34
that he and Brad had fooled around but it had been a while he said since they had
01:00:41
the only real question she had for David was how long had it been she desperately wanted to know the last time they had sex together
01:00:52
probably because she did know about the affair and David had likely made promises of stopping before
01:00:58
but didn't but Sherry finally gave in and told him she'd be there for him and to stay strong
01:01:07
they embraced each other for a long hug They kissed several times. They told each other they loved each other.
01:01:15
And David went to jail. You know, I've had harder trials, but it was a rough trial.
01:01:21
We thought we had a, you know, still think we had a really good case, but you never know.
01:01:26
You never know what a jury's going to do. But at the end of the day, you know, you present a good case, you get a good result.
01:01:34
And this was a good case. I mean, everybody played by the rules, colored in the lines.
01:01:38
There was nothing out there that we were worried about. I think David thought that his self-defense story would win the day, but it was just so ridiculous that no one bought it.
01:01:51
I know one thing that was talked about, our prosecutor deciding to charge David with aggravated murder.
01:02:00
We believe that's what it was, but could we prove prior calculation and design? Can we prove that he went there with the intention to kill?
01:02:10
There was a lot of evidence to support that, but that was definitely a hot topic issue with the trial.
01:02:17
And defense counsel, who did an excellent job, really tried to keep that from happening.
01:02:24
But, you know, the evidence won the day and he was convicted on everything we charged him with.
01:02:30
Finally, we get to the truth of what actually happened. Here it is. Brad was shot twice in the back of the head
01:02:37
The first bullet entered near the crown at a downward angle As if he were turning or crouching
01:02:44
He would have lived after this one The second one hit lower, driving forward into his skull
01:02:51
He never saw it coming Brad was found face down in the basement Lying in his blood near his hot tub
01:02:59
There were bruises on his face his phone was still in his pocket nothing in the house had been stolen
01:03:08
but the drawers were open like someone had tried to make it look that way David Kinney would claim it was self-defense
01:03:15
and that Brad had confronted him things had gotten heated and he pulled the trigger out of fear
01:03:21
but the evidence suggested a very different story there were zero signs of a struggle
01:03:28
no defensive wounds just two bullets to the back of the head And David had brought the gun with him that day To anyone best guess Brad didn even own a Derringer
01:03:41
So the other thing about the scene that we had was that basement was very cluttered.
01:03:48
And we knew at the time we were dealing with a small caliber, but we didn't know how small.
01:03:56
But typically, laws of averages, when you're dealing with small calibers, probably going to be a 22.
01:04:03
So we're looking for shell casings. And I think for the next week, we searched that basement.
01:04:12
At one point, we actually took everything out of that basement. Everything, every box, everything, period.
01:04:22
And look for shell casings. Never found any. So typically that'll tell us that you're probably dealing with a revolver or someone found the shell casings and picked them up.
01:04:35
One of David's many stories was that he took Brad's Derringer off of him, which is a revolver or a contained weapon, depending on the model, and where the casings stay in the weapon after they're fired.
01:04:53
And that's what he shot him with. but I, you know, um, I just don't know. I know. I, I, I, I believe that, that David took a weapon
01:05:05
there to kill Brad. You know, it was his plan to kill him. I mean, I think that the evidence
01:05:09
supports that most definitely. Uh, so we don't know what kind of gun it was. Just, it was a 22.
01:05:15
Not for sure. To detectives, it wasn't panic. It was fear. It was a plan. David claimed he
01:05:23
chucked the gun in a certain location along the highway, but it was never found.
01:05:28
We asked Detective Alar for his take on David's character. I think there's a little bit of monster in everybody, and some are worse than others.
01:05:38
And, you know, like I said before, I understand, you know, I know I've been, there's been several
01:05:45
times in my life where if things blew a different way, I might have been capable of murder.
01:05:49
I think everybody, if they're honest with themselves, they can agree with that. And, you know, it's the fact that you've got to tame your own monster, you know, and you get to that point.
01:06:03
You know, you can either be a decent human being and you let the monster win. And in this case, you know, David Kinney let the monster win.
01:06:12
David Kinney, the Flaming Queen, was convicted of aggravated murder and sentenced to life in prison,
01:06:20
without the possibility of parole plus three years for the firearm. His wife was cleared of any involvement with the murder.
01:06:28
For a time, it appears, she stayed by his side. They were still married for several years after his conviction.
01:06:35
But by 2024, her life had taken a different turn. Public posts suggested she eventually remarried quietly,
01:06:45
moving on from the man at the center of one of Ohio's most intimate betrayals. There's no public word on how her children have coped,
01:06:55
either by the loss of their dad or Uncle Brad. But one can only hope they've had support and counseling needed
01:07:03
to navigate away from something so ugly. This wasn't just a story about murder. It was a story about betrayal.
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It was about trust fractured across every layer of small-town life. It was about the damage that a secret can do to a family
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when it's fed, protected, and finally exposed. That does it for another one. Go check out our merch store
01:07:58
now that the holidays are coming up. And if you like what we do here, you can find a whole lot more of it
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on our iPhone and Android app or our website, Sword and Scale. dot com Thank you.