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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is not intended for all audiences.
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Listener discretion is advised. A man's man should never be compromised when it comes to a female who's never been a man.
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Come take a load off, put your feet up, and listen to some murder. What a stupid thing to say.
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This is Season 13, Episode 338 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real.
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If you're a fan of true crime, I invite you to check out our brand new YouTube channel where
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you could subscribe the opposite way you can on our website. See, on our website, you can subscribe
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for 10 bucks for audio and then add video for another 10 bucks on top of that. On YouTube,
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you can start with video and add audio. So, you know, take your pick. This is just going to
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complicate things, isn't it? Oh, well, fuck my life. It's just after midnight in 2019, during the summer solstice, the longest day of the year.
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This isn't some mumbo-jumbo new age crap. It's when the sun is furthest from the equator.
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And it's a time when some say the veil between this dimension and the others is the thinnest.
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Okay, so maybe there is a little quote-unquote New Age wisdom. The most important point, though, is that it's Ohio.
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The state that's becoming quite popular around here for some reason. So, it's June 21st in East Cleveland.
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Believe it or not, there are posh areas in Cleveland, so that some of you savages can pretend to be people.
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This isn't one of them. It's not a picturesque skyline by the lake or the downtown area lit up with nightlife.
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It's Collinwood, a working class neighborhood that feels like it's part of a bygone era.
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Part of the Rust Belt. The houses are small and modest, but nice enough. And the lawns are mowed.
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There's just enough space in the backyard for a barbecue. Ah, Americana. A small, white, Cape Cod-style home
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faces a narrow street called Chickasaw Avenue. It's a mild but humid evening. No wind is blowing, and it's dark.
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Windows stay open in most homes and the people inside are asleep. The fans humming in the background.
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But on this street, as June 21st turns to the 22nd, something bad is happening. Cleveland 911 dispatchers. Who did any police fire EMS?
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Hello, we just got stabbed. We're on chicken saw abs. I'm sorry? I said we just got stabbed.
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Who just got stabbed? The call almost sounded like a hoax. The child calling in was so calm and said she lived on Chicken Saw Avenue.
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But this was no joke. What's your address where you are? Chicken Saw Avenue, just separate.
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What's the address? The complete address? We don't know. You're on what street? Chickasaw, about to pass out.
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Are you a Euclid? No, Cleveland, Ohio. You may not have caught it, but the little girl said she was about to pass out.
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She was trying her hardest to stay alert and get the street names right. In this part of Cleveland, the streets seem to have Native American names.
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And you're on Chickasaw? Yeah. Do you know another street nearby? Um, no. I'm leaving sight.
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Run. Turkey. You're on Turkey? What? Turkey. What she was trying to say was Cherokee.
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Note to parents, make sure that your kids know where they live and how to pronounce the street names.
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That's a small safety tip that rivals all of the canned goods and toilet paper you hoard in your Cape Cod summer home.
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Yeah, I know my audience. Okay, who got stabbed, honey? Me and my cousin. By who?
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Our cousin. Okay, I'm going to get you over to EMS, okay? Yes, please. Okay, don't hang up. How old are you?
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Ten. Okay, don't hang up, okay? Okay. The dispatch operator told the EMS responder she had a 10-year-old who had a knife wound.
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It was hard to tell if his response was disbelief or mere frustration. I mean, this is Cleveland.
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Sadly it probably not the first time a kid called in about being stabbed This place truly is a shithole Okay Are you still there honey
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Yes, I'm at the front side. Okay. Okay. She doesn't know where she's at. She says she's on a street called a shithole.
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What's up? The corner of what? It's not a corner. She just said she's on a street called a shithole.
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Oh, please. Shithole? Yeah. We did this. She said her and her cousin got stabbed.
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Okay. Was her cousin older than her? I was your cousin, honey. Dad. By this time, the polite little girl who was stabbed and trying not to pass out was getting frustrated.
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You can hear her in the background desperately pleading for help. She was probably wondering when the questions would stop and an ambulance would arrive.
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The victims were two 10-year-old cousins who managed to escape outside. They were making their way to a neighbor's house, but all the time struggling just to stay alive.
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Thank God some kind people in the next street over were still up and looking out their window when they heard crying.
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Cleveland 911, that's just a special. I got a little girl outside my house. She's her brother's theater.
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What's her address? My address is 19612 Cherokee. She's bleeding really bad. She's coming in my house, so please hurry.
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Where's the thing, buddy? Shut the door. Why do you got the door open? Imagine that.
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You're minding your own business, and suddenly you hear little kids crying outside.
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You're like, what's that? You get up to see two blood-soaked girls staggering towards your house.
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These days, would you even let them in? I mean, be honest. That's some The Shining bullshit right there.
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Some of you would probably slam the door shut, no doubt. She's knocked on my door and said that she stabbed her bleeding to death.
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All her clothes are full of blood. Who's bleeding to death? The two little girls.
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Okay, are you? And the little girl can barely talk. Yes. Okay, so I'm gonna ask you two more questions so that I can tell you what to do.
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These questions are gonna help me help them, okay? How old are they? Okay. They look like they're about maybe 12, 11, 12 years old.
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Okay. 13 or so at the moment. And are they awake? Yeah, they're awake, but they're covered in blood.
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Okay. Listen carefully. I want to tell you how to stop the bleeding. Listen carefully to make sure we do it correct, okay?
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Sounds like a plan, right? But what do you do if you can't tell where the blood's coming from?
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So I need you to get a clean track. But they got stabbed wounds all over. Okay. It's all over.
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Okay, is the brother still nearby, the one that stabbed him? No, no, no. Okay, and is there any serious bleeding?
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Yes, there's serious bleeding. Okay, are they completely in there? Are they going out of it unconscious?
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Yes, they're secret slurred, yes. Okay, I'm giving this information to the dispatch.
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Stay in line, don't hang up. Okay, and you said there is more than one wound, correct?
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Yes, they're set all over. They got blood and they're laying in my house, in my foyer, and they're bleeding.
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Okay, help is on the way. It always seems to take forever for an ambulance to arrive.
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And the questions from 911 operators are never-ending. The truth is that the response time varies, obviously depending on where you live.
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But in urban areas, the average time is only about five to eight minutes. But those few minutes can feel like forever.
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Okay. All right, shut the door. Is she okay? Baby, most of you okay? They're running the two and talking.
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How long is it going to take them to get here? They're coming right now to the fire department and the paramedics.
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And they're on their way? Yes, they're on their way. The excitement was almost too much for this lady.
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She started having her own issues. I got asthma and my breathing is getting heavy.
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Okay, do you have an inhaler that you can take? Yes, I'm about to use it. Okay, let's get your inhaler.
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Despite her own problems, this woman wasn't going to let two little girls slip into unconsciousness.
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I mean, if I needed somebody to bring me back, I'd want this lady. She goes hard.
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Hey, wake up, baby! Hey! Wake up, baby! As the woman in the house is on the phone with 911, her boyfriend comes back.
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He sees the kids bleeding and crying. What's wrong, babe? Who said to you? What happened?
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Come on, honey. Hello? Hello? Give him the phone, honey. Say what? Hello? Can you tell Ambala where you guys are?
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We are right here on Cherokee, 19612 Cherokee. These kids have been stabbed up. Okay, give me that address again.
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19612 Cherokee. Who am I speaking to? This is EMS and police. Hurry up, please. These girls have been stabbed bad.
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Come back here, baby. This guy's door, he doesn't fly again. Ain't nobody gonna mess with y'all.
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Oh my goodness. Come on, who are you looking for right now? Oh my goodness. Come on, baby.
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Come on. I can't get up. The little girls confirm that it was a cousin who stabbed them.
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And she's afraid he'll find them. Not when this guy's around. I mean, would you fuck with him?
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I wouldn't. Weekly, she tells him she can't get up. Open that door. This girl done been stabbed up there.
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Okay did that address where they going to be the one nine six twelve Yes the 1 Yes yes 1 Here see hurry up
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Oh, my fucking goodness. Okay, are you guys responding, Petey? Yeah. Say what? Hey, y'all sit right there.
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Oh, my fucking goodness. This girl is stabbed up real bad. Does she know where the person went who stabbed her?
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Say what? Does she know where the person stabbed her? They said they looking for them.
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Oh boy. These gentlemen seem ready to carry out their own investigation. But police wanted a name.
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The little girls were scared and going in and out of awareness. It was hard to get the needed information, and confusion was getting in the way.
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They don't know. Do y'all know who's a sad guy like that? He's my mother, don't know me. He's my mother, brother.
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Sir. Yeah. Are both of them sad? Yeah. When you send somebody... Sir, we got people on the way. I'm trying to get information from you.
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So it's the time you are. These kids are sapped up sad. They're two little girls.
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Oh, motherfucking goodness. Man, I find this dude. Who is this guy? I got EMS already talking to them.
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They don't need to be transparent. Okay, I got you. Who is this guy that's sad, y'all?
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I got two 10-year-old sad. I'm serious. Who's sad, y'all? Sorry, who? Jalen Plummer.
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It was 18-year-old Jalen Plummer, their cousin, who was supposed to be staying with an aunt in a different part of the neighborhood, but decided to go on a killing spree at his grandma's house instead.
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And the grandma was still back at the house. Now y'all, please hurry up, send somebody for these kids.
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He killed my grandma. He killed your grandma. My daughter. Oh, my daughter. Oh my God, please hurry up.
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So much was going on. As the couple in the house learned more information, the panic escalated.
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Some people are good in crisis and some aren't. Do they know where they live at?
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Don't tell me what to do. You go and do what you should do. What you say? Do they know where they live at? Like an actor?
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Do I know where they live at? Do they know where they tell us their address? They called from Chickasaw Avenue, where their grandmother, Diane Madison, lived.
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The two cousins escaped, but left their grandmother behind. Then, there was the cousin Jalen, who caused the bloodbath.
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No one knew his whereabouts yet, but you'd better hope he didn't cross paths with his neighbor.
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Baby, just a deep calm down. Man, I find this motherfucker. Will you quit talking to me, Pam?
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Stop talking to me, please. I'm not scared to shit. I wish this motherfucker would bring his ass over here.
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Oh, my fucking goodness. Okay, we should have police pulling up, sir. Do you see them outside?
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Oh, my fucking goodness. Oh, my fucking goodness. Yeah, they pulling up right now.
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In the immortal words of this Ohioan, oh, my fucking goodness, This was Cleveland, but even our seasoned veteran here hadn't seen anything like this before.
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You could tell this was some fucked up shit that would stick with them. After talking with the two little girls and the couple taking care of them,
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officers realized they needed to go to the crime scene as soon as possible while the girls were on their way to the hospital.
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what they didn't know yet was that there was still another child in that house on chickasaw
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justin madison a 12 year old boy with autism this was jalen's brother and jalen was still in that
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house too so this is the house yeah okay so we you guys have a crime scene log or anything yeah
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okay i'll just tell you guys what happened i also got the address we came over here his little
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brother has like a mental disability he came up to that window this bedroom right here at those
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windows she's laying in the south east corner of the room behind the door face on justin was
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terrified and didn't completely understand what was going on his sister had fled the scene with
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her cousin well more like escaped justin was trapped in an upstairs bedroom and didn't even
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know he was injured. The police were about to wade into a blood-soaked house, but first needed
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to convince her grandson Justin to unlock the door and come outside. Come here. Open the window.
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Hey, what's your name, my man? What's that? That's it. My buddy is the one you tell me now.
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Where's your brother? He's in the bathroom. Okay, what? Someone... Hey, I'm... Inside the house?
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Hey, I'm gonna cover the back. Justin was risking his life letting the officers in because the killer was still there.
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In the bathroom the water was running Jalen Plummer was fully clothed standing under the shower The blood from his own knife wounds swirled into the drain
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Stay right here, my man. You're okay. You're okay. Where are you? What's that? You get my clothes for me. I can't.
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Are you okay, though? Yeah. Get your hands off! Get your hands off! Wait, my brother! My brother's in there.
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My brother did this. Okay. You're fine, you're fine. How old are you, my man? Twelve years old.
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Twelve years old? Yes. My mom was not at the house. Where's your mom at? Is she at work?
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Yes. This was a madhouse. When asked for his mother's name, he was able to give it to the officer,
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but he couldn't spell it, saying that she never told him how. Okay, we'll call her, okay?
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You're okay, though. You're not hurt, right? You're not bleeding at all? Oh, you got stabbed, huh?
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Wait, I got stabbed? Yeah, you got some blood. What's your name? I got lucky. What?
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Yeah. When I saw the knife in there. You did? Where do you think the knife's at?
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I got to tell this, and I cleaned it up. You cleaned it up? Yeah. Okay. It's in the sink.
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It's in the sink. It's in the sink right now. It's in the sink? Hey, he's saying the nose in the sink.
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This guy, this victim. Yeah, he's got a little laceration to the back right now.
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The discovery of the murder weapon was good news and bad news. Good news that this unlikely and lucky victim found it, but possibly bad news that he cleaned it up.
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What's going to happen to me now? You're going to get checked out by EMS because you got stabbed.
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I'm going to try getting a hold of your mouth for you, okay? Justin naturally had a lot of questions about himself, his grandma Diane, and his brother, who had been led away in handcuffs.
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What happened to my brother now? We got him. He's not going to hurt anyone. My grandma going to be okay?
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Yeah, they're working on it right now. They're helping her. Okay, that's all. Dad, you saw a little dog?
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A little dog? I did not go in the house. I saw you outside. I came and grabbed you.
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What Justin didn't know was that his grandmother died almost immediately after being stabbed by his brother.
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In her bedroom, they found Diane Madison dead of multiple stab wounds, including one that completely severed her carotid artery.
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And the little dog he was referring to was sitting on the bed in the same spot where he'd been sleeping peacefully next to his owner.
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Now, with a look of bewilderment. The dog wasn't alone. Almost everyone who knew Jalen Plummer was bewildered.
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No one could yet explain why a college-bound teenager, quiet, smart, and planning to study pharmacology, had suddenly turned into a violent killer.
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But there were cracks long before that night. This wasn't just one terrible night.
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It was the unveiling of a legacy that had been building long before Jalen had ever picked up a knife.
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On June 22, 2019, in East Cleveland's South Collinwood neighborhood, police responded to a bloody scene on Chickasaw Avenue.
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Two 10-year-old girls escaped their home, reporting they'd been stabbed in their sleep.
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when officers got to the house they found a third victim a 12 year old autistic boy who confirmed
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that his brother was the killer 18 year old jalen plumber was in the shower rinsing off blood after
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stabbing the entire household in a bedroom his grandmother diane madison lay dead from multiple
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stab wounds, and her little dog also laid nearby. Jalen offered only a chilling explanation.
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The mental health care system failed me, so I tried to kill my family. Signs of mental illness
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seemed obvious when Jalen was taken to the hospital and questioned. Nurses bandaged the
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deep cuts on his hands, but it was as if his voice was bound just as tightly. His muffled words
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barely escaped. He spoke in vague, detached terms, referring to his siblings as child number one
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and child number two. He claimed he didn't know the names of his mother and grandmother,
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and said he just called them mommy or grandma. His mother, Tania Plummer, would later tell
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detectives that Jalen had no official diagnosis, but his behavior had drastically changed between
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the ages of 12 and 15. He'd been drinking, smoking, shutting down, and fixating on dark things.
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She had just decided to get him into therapy. But here's what Jalen's mother didn't want to say.
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She remembered that his behavior had started to change around the time of another arrest.
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Police already knew the name that would leave her lips. This was a man from the same city.
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A serial killer that had haunted Cleveland and was arrested and convicted during Jalen's crucial adolescent years.
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It seemed possible this disturbed Jalen so much that he became fascinated with killing and
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ultimately exploded in a murderous fit that night, leaving his grandmother dead.
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Diane was a loving, kind person, and I think sometimes that gets lost. almost all of us who worked with her
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remained friends with her afterward. That's the kind of person she was. She was the kind of person others felt comfortable with
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because they knew she'd been through it. They knew she was the first to sympathize.
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She was always open to hearing about everybody's hard times because God knows she'd had enough of her own.
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And I just want them to remember her smile and remember how much laughter and joy she brought to people's lives.
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She was someone who was compassionate, who cared about our family, who cared about our grandkids,
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who cared about our kids even when they couldn't reciprocate maybe. Diane Madison wasn't just a grandmother.
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She was a mother of one of the most notorious killers in Cleveland's history. Her son, Michael Madison, grew up in that same house on Chickasaw Avenue.
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As an adult, he returned to raise a family there with his girlfriend, Tania Plummer.
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They had two children, including a disabled son. Eventually, Michael left them behind.
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Not before Jalen witnessed it all, though. The growing suspicion, the arrest, the conviction of a killer.
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Someone who had once called that house home. Conversation recorded on July 19, 2013 at 8.50.
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4. Hey, how you doing? Okay. Hi, this is the table. Just need to see, y'all can send somebody over here.
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We can't get this one garage open. We can't get this one garage open. We can't get a garage door open, but it's a smell.
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I know when a dead animal smells, I know a garbage smell. But a fly is coming out of the wall from one side of the garage.
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I mean, that smell is so freaking strong. you could throw up. I mean, we just want to make sure ain't nobody on the other side or
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something. I mean, it's so bad enough, man, you would throw up. It's hard to even take
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the smell. What's the address? 1395 Hayden. What's your name? My name's Chase. What's your last name? Child. What's your phone number? 216-870-8956.
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Okay, are you done? Yeah, I'm out here now. We're waiting nobody to come up yet.
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We're getting cold, but it's so crazy. Okay, I'm going to take the one I'll tell you.
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All right. That smell in the garage. If you've never had the pleasure, it's a mixture of rotting fish, dead animal, skunk, and raw sewage.
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How's that lunch treating you? You're welcome. This call came in six years before Diane's murder.
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And it wasn't just the first sign of something horrific. It was the past catching up.
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It was a call to police from a cable company worker in this building that eventually led to the arrest of Michael Madison on murder charges.
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He lived there in an apartment, and one employee saw flies swarming in a nearby garage.
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So I went in there, and when I smelled the smell, I was like, oh my God, we need to call the police.
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East Cleveland police found the decomposing body of a female victim on Friday. They ID'd Madison as a suspect, arrested him at his mother's home, and began questioning.
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The garage wasn't behind Diane's house. It was on Hayden Avenue, near a small upstairs apartment Michael had been renting just a few miles away.
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Because by 2013, he wasn't living under his mother's roof anymore. And he wasn't the same cute, cuddly little boy she'd raised.
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He had turned cold. Michael Madison, Diane's son, was no stranger to trouble. He was quiet and withdrawn.
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He's always been that way. He'd been drifting for years through dead-end jobs, short tempers,
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and the kind of isolation that makes neighbors nervous. He had anger issues sometimes.
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I would see him upset, yelling, and I just told him to calm down. And he was okay.
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You know, he spoke to everybody. When the garage door finally opened and the truth finally came spilling out, literally,
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it wasn't just the neighborhood that changed. It was the entire Madison household, especially his stepson, Jalen.
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The man he had once called stepdad would now be called something else entirely. A killer.
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Michael wasn't exactly a copycat, but his crimes bore chilling similarities to those of another Cleveland serial killer he reportedly admired.
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Anthony Sowell, infamously known as the Cleveland Strangler. Sowell was convicted in 2011 after the remains of 11 women were found at his home.
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Years later, Jalen Plummer, who lived with his stepfather Michael in the same house,
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appeared to develop a disturbing interest in the same notorious figure. The coroner in Cleveland, Ohio, says six bodies found in the home of a convicted rapist were female.
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All were homicide victims. Police arrested 50 Anthony Sowell Saturday Thank you Jesus Thank you Heavenly Father I am so glad they got him because I wasn going to rest you know until they did Before I had to put my fridge against the door and lock myself in before I could even
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go to sleep. Just two years after the Cleveland Strangler was put away, Michael Madison emerged onto
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the crime scene. Michael was born in East Cleveland in 1977. former classmates barely remembered him because he had no real friends
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he was, I guess, what you would call forgettable he didn't graduate from high school
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but he was far from stupid he had a lot going on in his head but no one ever bothered to ask what that was
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and he never saw a therapist but he needed one because he hated women Specifically, black women.
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The women who fell into his nightmare weren't prostitutes or drugged out street women.
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Not that they would deserve his fate. Instead, they were women with families, full lives and plans.
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And for a brief, fateful moment, each of them crossed paths with Michael Madison.
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The first body found was 18-year-old Sherilda Terry. She had just graduated from high school with plans for a good life.
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That summer, she worked at an elementary school in East Cleveland, helping run youth programs and earning respect from teachers and neighbors.
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She was last seen alive on July 10, 2013, leaving school after her shift, but she never made it home.
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They met somewhere in the previous weeks and started texting. Michael lied, saying he was 25 with no children.
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When they opened the garage door, thousands of flies swarmed in the putrid air. Officers moved the bags containing her remains and a trail of decomposition fluid,
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left a mix of brown, gray, red, and yellow flowing like a dirty river on the concrete in front of it.
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It was one of the most gruesome crime scenes they'd ever laid their eyes on. She died from ligature strangulation.
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And investigators also noted a severe vaginal laceration consistent with sexual assault while she was still alive.
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Sherrata's my angel. Well, everybody called her Sherrata. I called her heaven. Why's that?
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I called my kids according to how they act. And that's my heaven. so to me he took mine she's a praised dancer she's she's a holy person she's heavy into the
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church and she's she's my reader my bookworm it didn't take long for michael to be arrested and
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brought in for questioning but it came after a standoff at his mother's house dna and circumstantial
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evidence were strong but during questioning detectives hoped to get some answers as to why
00:33:02
Michael had the spotlight for once. He talked a lot, but not about what mattered.
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And he wasn't the loud bragging type. Instead, he gave metaphors quietly. Parables.
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Detached theories about the human condition. It was as if the man accused of stuffing women into trash bags
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thought he was there to give a philosophical lecture. and while detectives paused for timelines and names
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Michael offered riddles and speculations and you know this is my first time really realizing
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just how different walks of life are like when I was younger we stayed on the west side
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and we stayed in Cleveland so we got to school on the west side you know so the west side school where I like
00:33:52
Puerto Rican and his wife that's pretty good ministry and we moved here and it's been pretty much just black on black for the majority of my life.
00:34:02
I've always, I don't even want to tell myself, I want to tell myself I would like to stay out in the country.
00:34:08
You know what I'm saying? Three, four horses. You know what I'm saying? A couple cows, some sheep.
00:34:13
You know what I'm saying? Some rams, some goat. What are you going to do with a ram and a goat?
00:34:19
I just like to see the rams. I think they have like the most testosterone. Really?
00:34:26
The Rams. They were going at it one time. What were they? Fucking bang heads and chilling down?
00:34:33
Lean, flipping, nothing, and lean down. I don't like the Rams. Like the Rams swagger.
00:34:39
Yeah, he really did just say, I like the Rams swagger. The conversation shifted for a minute to the day police picked him up.
00:34:48
It was a sweltering day when police moved to arrest him on July 19, 2013. He happened to be at his mom's house on Chickasaw and barricaded himself inside for hours.
00:35:02
SWAT was called. And the standoff ended only when officers used tear gas and broke the door down to force him out.
00:35:11
They asked him what he was thinking at the time. If it sounds garbled, it's probably because of the cheeseburger he was eating.
00:35:31
This guy's maybe the chillest killer they've ever interviewed. He went on to say that while police car sirens blared and lights flashed,
00:35:41
while voices boomed over the megaphone yelling for him to come out he was listening to his mother's wind chimes smoking cigarette butts from the ashtray
00:35:52
and thinking about his childhood always good to have friends and family no man well obviously if a lot love Friends and family are the ones who done me the worst in life Like you know like think about it man
00:36:07
Like, do you think if I really, like, if I really just all out valued my mother and her opinion and how she would feel,
00:36:16
do you think I would've came out the door before that, you know what I'm saying, before that door got hit like that?
00:36:22
Yeah, fuck that door up. I'm not saying that that's the reason that I didn't come out, but like I said, family and friends would be the worst.
00:36:31
I love my mother, but secretly when her got to a point where I really pretty much didn't care to see her again, but during a certain time, she was there for me.
00:36:46
You know what I'm saying? You know, the whole thing we're doing for a sex appearance and
00:36:50
going forward, going hard on it is going hard on it that. You know, we're talking, I'll put all of that behind me.
00:36:58
But, man, I really... At several points throughout the more than eight hours of interrogation,
00:37:05
Michael alluded to a loveless childhood of neglect. According to him, his mother prioritized appearance and money over him.
00:37:15
As much as detectives wanted to make him comfortable and hear about his past, they still had a job to do.
00:37:21
And it wasn't to be a therapist for a killer. I want you to start at the beginning.
00:37:26
What's the whole time I was born? Start at the beginning. Whatever you want to start.
00:37:30
This is your opportunity. Tell me. Did you tell me what you got me for? Yeah. Well, I got a call saying that people on the body in the garage, around the place on the
00:37:49
town, Hayden, people that call me because they say, hey, you know me? I'll be around here.
00:37:59
I'm like, is that where you live at? Let's answer that. Yes. That's it. That's where Michael lived.
00:38:08
But all of a sudden, it was not really his place. His baby mama's name was on the lease, and people just sort of came and went,
00:38:17
all helping pay the bills together somehow in some sort of weird collective. You know, anybody could have been there.
00:38:26
Anybody could have had access to that garage. Michael, I don't know what you had a conversation with the commander about.
00:38:33
I was the last six hours I've been over in your spot with an organization called BCI.
00:38:44
I don't know if you know what BCI is, man. You ever watch any of the CSI shows? Whenever something happens, you leave.
00:38:54
Intentionally or unintentionally, you leave stuff behind, whether it be DNA evidence, fingerprints, blood.
00:39:01
We're giving you the opportunity to tell your side of the story, man, okay? But please don't sit here and insult me.
00:39:07
I've been spending all that seven hours processing your apartment. I know the evidence in your apartment.
00:39:14
I know the evidence in your garage. I mean, please do me the courtesy of, listen, I understand that people make mistakes.
00:39:27
I told you before, I'm not here to judge you. Please use your courtesy of being honest, man.
00:39:33
All on me, though. What's that? Like you said, it's all on me. All on me. My place, my better rides, my Disney.
00:39:44
Because it's rented to you. Everybody says that you live there. And they reputable, their information is reputable because...
00:39:54
We got people that have saw you in the apartment, man. He argued that he was in and out of the apartment and hadn't been in the garage for weeks.
00:40:02
The body was put in the garage less than a week before. All the detectives wanted was for him to fess up and tell them what he did.
00:40:11
And they weren't getting anywhere. It was time to bring God into it. Little did they know that they had just made a massive overreach.
00:40:22
this was the perfect opportunity for the suspect to um preach that's all i want that's all i got
00:40:31
for real that's all i've ever really had is god so then you believe in the right and wrong
00:40:38
right but i also believe in the chest game here on earth where you had a devil and you have god
00:40:45
hell is right here on earth. Like you, no matter if you was a reverend, a pastor, a deacon,
00:40:55
like you are not without sin. Like you sin, he sin. Like no one, whether it be police, pastor,
00:41:04
no one can tell me that it's without sin. No one can tell me that they have never committed sin
00:41:09
and never broken the law, whether it be misdemeanor or study. Somebody like, everybody had some type of skeleton in they closet.
00:41:17
And whether it be pastor or chief of police, like, you know, throw a name on it.
00:41:24
Skeletons can be as big as the name, like chief of police. And his skeletons can be just as big as, say, Anthony Show Will, all the way down to little girl just leaving daycare.
00:41:36
Like, no one, like, yeah, I know it's a God, and I know, you know what I'm saying?
00:41:44
I know it's good, and I know it's bad. They just let him keep talking. They let him drift through the vague philosophies and half sermons in his little cabeza According to him no one wanted to hear his story the real story quote
00:42:05
Again, you'll never convince a retard they're not a genius. He was fine talking about literally everything, except the murders.
00:42:16
So you don't think anybody is going to listen to your story? Is that what you're saying?
00:42:19
No, I did. Bingo. Bingo. We're here listening. And we're the ones that are going to have communication with the prosecutor.
00:42:26
Y'all doing y'all job, man. Y'all doing y'all job. No, I'm like, they all disagree with you.
00:42:32
Like, man, I, you know, hate to seem like I'm wasting time or anything, but, you know, this is like, I'm, like I told you earlier, I'm at the beginning line of some shit that you don't want to go through.
00:42:47
you don't want to go through and probably y'all probably wouldn't wish on y'all worse enemies
00:42:51
and I'm at the start line of it's not like it's not like me giving you what it is you
00:43:00
won't gonna make this any easier for me you know what I want to do I want to do the hardest
00:43:06
thing that a police officer ever has to do you know what that is go to work no that's easy
00:43:13
going out there when people are doing bad things and catching them, chasing them,
00:43:18
fighting with them, whatever it takes. That's easy. I want to do the hardest job
00:43:24
when I have to go to somebody and say, I'm sorry to tell you this, but if your loved one is no longer with us,
00:43:32
they're dead. This didn't faze Michael. He just kept talking until everyone in the room was numb.
00:43:40
It's a cool parlor trick if you can do it. Politicians are great at it. It's a shame, though, he didn't talk until he was numb.
00:43:48
Because he would have already been there a long time ago. I'm numb. I'm truly numb.
00:43:55
Truly numb. Truly numb. I'm not expecting to be heard. You know what I'm saying?
00:44:04
I'm prepared for the worst. Hope for the best, prepared for the worst. like whatever the worst is like i know it's still like it's not like i'm about to go to war
00:44:15
or i'm about to be shooting and shit going to war i'm about to be in front of a judge
00:44:21
around other criminals that's what i'm saying is man like i don't i feel i feel it's nothing
00:44:27
i feel it's not a damn thing like i'm sure you're like it's like i said man this shit like
00:44:34
is this world that we live in? Like from generals in the army to tenants, commanders,
00:44:42
like how do you think some of these wars is going to? They just send somebody out on the front line
00:44:48
knowing that these dudes ain't going to come back. They ain't even supposed to even come back.
00:44:53
For the record, Michael was never in the military. He was just pulling out all the stops to make his case,
00:45:00
even by stealing valor. even though he hadn't admitted to anything yet he knew they had him so he would just hint at the
00:45:09
motive which was i was neglected nobody ever listened to me my baby mama nags me all the time
00:45:17
because i don't have a job where she makes me feel less than a man women all want one thing
00:45:24
Wah. Wah. Wah. Holy shit, what an insufferable asshole. Then, out of the blue, probably because they were so numb from the talking, the cops flipped
00:46:16
the switch and asked him point blank. Was that like a trick question? No. Why is it a trick question?
00:46:27
Why would it be a trick question? No, I ain't never killed nobody. Killed me a couple of birds or something.
00:46:32
Is this the first time you've ever killed somebody? I ain't never killed nobody.
00:46:37
But that was a lie. In an obscured part of the interview that's barely audible, unfortunately,
00:46:44
he admits to strangling one of the women. He was annoyed that she wouldn't leave
00:46:51
and felt like she was trying to take advantage of him in some way. He was drunk, and all he remembered was putting his hands around her neck.
00:47:01
He never said she died, but he never said her name. Later, he claimed he found a body in a garbage bag and carried it down to the garage.
00:47:12
But he never put it in there. It was a mirage of pieces. but the pieces corroborated the evidence and it didn't take a genius to fill in the missing pieces
00:47:23
you could be the man right now let's do it mike i know i know you got power now what do you think i mean mike i don't know you're not really being clear with it you kind of
00:47:36
you know what we found yesterday right think about what i found today mike what were you
00:47:43
talking about yesterday? He said, they're going to learn. We're going to teach. They deserve it.
00:47:51
I was just talking about the sarah offence. Delirious. No, Mike. You weren't. And I was sitting there trying to put it all together.
00:48:00
And after we took you back downstairs yesterday, Sergeant Ruth and I and Sergeant Gardner,
00:48:07
we sat down in my office and we talked for a long time. And we just were trying to figure out what you were trying to tell us.
00:48:16
And I and Sergeant Ruth know now exactly what you were saying, bro. Like, I know now. We jumped right in like we found it.
00:48:26
I found out. You're the man. You went bullshitting. I got another body. I thought you were kind of blowing smoke up my ass yesterday. Me and Gardner and Ruth were talking about it. I thought you were blowing smoke up my ass yesterday. I said, I don't know.
00:48:48
I said, I said, Wei, I think he's telling me just by his body language, just by his demeanor, some of the things he was saying.
00:48:56
You say you're talking out of the side of your mouth. I think that that was you wanting to tell your story, and I'm giving you an opportunity now to do it.
00:49:03
And I'm telling you, I believe you now. I kind of half-assed believed you yesterday, and I'm believing you 100% now.
00:49:11
Michael barely flinched. He had admitted to having dates to his apartment and getting so shit-faced that he didn't remember them leaving.
00:49:38
He confessed to putting his hands around one of the women's necks and awakening to find a body in a garbage bag.
00:49:45
That's bad. But even now, when confronted with more evidence and yet another body,
00:49:52
he deflected. The detectives were running out of patience. And now, they didn't just want to know why he killed.
00:50:01
They wanted to know how many more dead women would be found. and where they were located.
00:50:34
When they found the first body in East Cleveland in 2013, it was a trash bag in a garage.
00:50:44
The neighbors had smelled something. By the time the police arrived, the case was already strange.
00:50:51
The suspect, Michael Madison, was calm. He denied everything and admitted only enough to seem helpful.
00:50:59
One woman, he said, was dead, but he hadn't killed her. he found her in a bag he just moved her
00:51:06
that's all he claimed but the evidence was there they still didn't have a clear motive though
00:51:12
only a suspect who talked in metaphors and acted like a victim all the time this victim
00:51:18
was also a father of two and a stepfather to one quiet teenager named Jalen who years later would erupt
00:51:27
into his own kind of violence in the same house on Chickasaw Avenue. The violence from both men was directed only at women.
00:51:38
The women who raised Michael and her grandson Jalen and three other innocent women who just happened to cross the wrong path.
00:51:47
Mike, you got the power. Obviously, she disrespected you. Obviously, she put you into that position.
00:51:54
Something happened, bro. She made you have to show her. And now all I want you to do is just show me.
00:52:00
We'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. You want to talk about the most recent one first, or you want to talk about another one?
00:52:06
Whatever one you want, bro. In this tiny blue interrogation room that resembled a prison cell,
00:52:13
detectives and Michael sat for hours on end, eating cheeseburgers from McDonald's as the questions came one after another.
00:52:23
While the barred window raised, Michael smoked black and mild cigars. the smoke mixing with the scent of sweat and making its way out the window to the sweltering
00:52:35
streets of cleveland they were finally coming to understand this killer and i guess even before
00:52:43
before here just you know pretty much knowing like damn at 35 with no real no background in school and no career no 401K Kids a baby mama has part as evil as they become You know I a real like I a real compassionate dude when it comes to certain things
00:53:07
What kind of things? Just, you know, people. People, but somewhere along the way I just lost, like, I love, like, I love female anatomy,
00:53:20
but a man's man should never be compromised when it comes to a female who's never been a man.
00:53:33
It was a simple but disturbing statement. In that one sentence, Michael revealed a cracked mirror of identity, pride, and resentment against women.
00:53:43
In 2025 especially, it's not unusual to hear the voices of frustration from men who feel diminished in relationships and society at large.
00:53:54
Still, his words, though wrapped in philosophical language, revealed a specific grievance.
00:54:02
This was a man whose sense of self had been shaped and maybe shattered by the women around him.
00:54:10
Still, nothing could justify the brutality that followed. He never offered a formal confession, not in so many words.
00:54:18
But he did give what experts call a functional confession. That's when a suspect doesn't technically admit guilt, but their behavior shows it.
00:54:28
They lead police to evidence only the killer would know. They describe crime scenes in detail.
00:54:35
They help close the loop. Think of Ted Bundy, who helped investigators find remains even years after denying some of his murders.
00:54:46
Or Israel Keyes, who mapped out the burial site of one of his victims despite refusing to name all of his crimes.
00:54:54
It's not in what they say, it's in what they do. Michael finally took detectives to the bodies.
00:55:03
The first was Sherilda Terry. the body found in the garage the young girl just starting her life
00:55:13
next was 28 year old Shatisha Shealy who had a daughter her body was discovered in a brush pile
00:55:22
near the garage behind Michael's apartment it was bound in layers of heavy trash bags
00:55:28
the same method used for the other victims forensic examination was limited due to decomposition
00:55:35
position, but there were signs of trauma and possible strangulation. Shatisha had bruises on her face, and her clothing had ligature marks.
00:55:47
Last to be found was 38-year-old Angela Deskins. She was discovered days after the first body in a musty basement of an abandoned house near
00:55:57
Michael's apartment. Angela was a quiet woman with a soft voice trying to piece her life back together.
00:56:04
She had once worked as a hairdresser, someone who brought beauty to others. But she struggled to get by and pull her own life together.
00:56:15
Someone introduced her to Michael. He seemed somewhat safe enough and had a calm personality.
00:56:22
That was all it took. June 7th, they tell us that's when they last saw Angela and since then they say they have
00:56:29
been frantically searching for her. This week, police confirmed their worst fear that cops had found her body, that 38-year-old's body.
00:56:39
Investigators right now aren't saying how she died. Cops discovered her remains in a backyard Saturday near Shaw Avenue.
00:56:46
Now, new this morning, a statement from the family. Quote, Angela Daskins was a beautiful, sweet, kind-hearted woman.
00:56:53
She was raised in Novelty, Ohio, by her father, Robert Daskins, and her stepmother, Linda Daskins.
00:57:00
Everyone who knew her loved her. She was a wonderful daughter, sister, and aunt who truly cared about her family and friends.
00:57:06
She is loved so much and will be missed by everyone who knew her. In the days after Michael's arrest, neighbors were quick to share their memories,
00:57:16
not about him, but about his mother, Diane Madison, and what she'd been through.
00:57:22
Everyone spoke highly of her. I want her to be remembered as someone who cared deeply for her children,
00:57:27
someone who cared passionately about her community. She was just a fine person. I'm a better person for having known her.
00:57:35
Michael loved his mother. He admitted this openly. But he also alluded to neglect.
00:57:42
What he didn't do in the interrogation was throw her under the bus. But the defense did that for him at the trial.
00:57:51
The trial formally started in April of 2016 By early May Madison had been convicted on all counts Three counts of aggravated murder three counts of kidnapping
00:58:04
three counts of gross abuse of a corpse, three counts of rape, and one count of possession of criminal tools.
00:58:12
The following week, the court turned to mitigation evidence, opening the door for a glimpse into Michael's upbringing.
00:58:20
Underneath the calm exterior of the woman next door, the community activist and loving mother and grandmother,
00:58:28
the defense painted an entirely different portrait. They described Diane as cruel, neglectful, and violently abusive.
00:58:37
Michael's attorneys revealed years of torment that started in childhood, documented by an expert clinical psychologist who evaluated Michael and examined his records.
00:58:49
They said Diane beat him regularly, locked him in closets, and even forced him to eat feces.
00:58:55
It didn't stop there. The defense told the court he was also sexually abused and emotionally abandoned.
00:59:03
They argued that Diane's abuse left scars so deep that they helped shape the monster he would later become.
00:59:10
During the victim impact statement given by Sherelda's father, chaos broke out in the courtroom when, for some reason, he stopped mid-sentence and lunged across tables towards Michael.
00:59:25
He started attacking him and had to be pulled off. His sister later clarified what happened at that moment.
00:59:33
During the sentencing, you have the families there and they're pouring out their hearts and saying how they're going to miss their families and what their families meant to him.
00:59:41
And he's sitting over there smiling, which caused my brother to launch at him. To him, he heard, fuck the daughter, excuse me, the life of my daughter, the life of my niece, the life of our baby, who we called heaven.
00:59:56
And OK, so it was horrible to be that close, to have to breathe his air, to be in the same room with a person that is so horrible and don't even care.
01:00:06
He don't care. He was he was laughing when she gave him the death penalty. You heard it. At the end of the trial, no mitigating circumstances were going to stand in the way of justice.
01:00:18
Michael Madison has now spent nearly a decade on Ohio's death row. He was sentenced on June 2, 2016, and was scheduled to die by lethal injection on May 20, 2021.
01:00:35
But an unofficial moratorium on executions has stalled all lethal injections in Ohio since 2020.
01:00:45
Want to know why? Well, they're waiting for an alternative execution method in place of lethal injection.
01:00:55
You see, they can't get their hands on the right drugs to make the deadly cocktail.
01:01:02
They can put dogs and cats to sleep all day long. All the strays, put them all to sleep in a humane way, we're told.
01:01:11
But they can't get the cocktail right for humans. Isn't that strange? It's almost as if they don't want to,
01:01:21
and are just hiding behind some bullshit regulation in order to not do it, despite what the populace might have voted for already.
01:01:32
Doesn't sound very democratic, does it? Anyway, for now, this asshole is still alive,
01:01:40
as the system that condemned him sits frozen in time, almost by design. I am struck by the sheer inhumanity of what one human being can do to not one,
01:01:57
but three human beings. It is incomprehensible. You cajoled, lured, and deceived Shetisha Sheely, Angela Deskins,
01:02:10
and Sherelda Terry to your apartment for your depraved purposes. You went on to abuse the corpses of these three victims.
01:02:17
You stripped them from the waist down. You folded them in half, binding them so that their feet were up by their ears.
01:02:28
You wrapped them in multiple layers of trash bags, and you discarded them. This killer didn't just kill out of nowhere.
01:02:37
His crimes were monstrous, but they happened after unresolved festering thoughts.
01:02:43
From a long and tangled legacy of suffering. Then you add the alcohol and possibly drugs and poof you get a Soren Scale episode Lucky you Decades later in a cramped Cleveland apartment a young Michael was beaten locked in closets humiliated and allegedly forced to eat feces by the very person who was supposed to protect him his mother Diane Madison a woman the public celebrated after her death
01:03:16
Later, he was allegedly sexually abused by one of her boyfriends. Michael felt emotionally discarded and shoved through the cracks of a system that barely noticed he was falling.
01:03:28
Then came Tania Plummer, the mother of his child who, according to Michael, belittled him and called him less than a man.
01:03:37
A man's manhood, he said, should never be compromised by a female who's never been a man.
01:03:44
That quote may sound absurd on the surface, but beneath it lies a cold bit of truth.
01:03:50
One that points to a deeper identity crisis, especially among men raised in trauma.
01:03:56
By women who are in trauma themselves. It's a warped belief born in pain and shaped by powerlessness.
01:04:06
It's an endless loop. I don't know how the fuck we get out of. Do you have any ideas?
01:04:13
And then came Jalen, Diane's grandson. The quiet boy who watched all of this unfold.
01:04:19
who once lived under the same roof as Michael. In 2019, Jalen, just 18 years old,
01:04:27
would creep into Diane Madison's home and stab her to death in her own bed. He didn't just kill her.
01:04:36
He nearly decapitated her. He pleaded guilty in 2021 and is serving a life sentence
01:04:43
with eligibility for parole in 30 years. his brother, sister, cousin and sad little dog
01:04:52
all survived the incident and remained in the care of their mother Tania Plummer
01:04:58
so here is the question did Jalen inherit the same demons that haunted Michael? was this demonic possession
01:05:09
some sort of poltergeist in this house of horror? or do we accept a more rational explanation?
01:05:17
Did Jalen learn violence by watching his uncle in and out of his life bringing stories of abuse and death with him?
01:05:27
Did Diane really change into the person neighbors claimed? Or did the darkness inside that house simply go unnoticed until it exploded again?
01:05:39
Did the systems America has in place fail both of these men? or did society simply stop asking the hard questions
01:05:48
and stop doing the hard things once the bodies were found in the end does it all really matter anyway
01:05:59
it should we all have this feeling in the back of our mind that it should we should do better at raising all of our children
01:06:10
we should have a safer and happier and more mentally sound civilization. It started with the allegations
01:06:19
of abuse at the hands of one woman. Two men carried it forward and three innocent women,
01:06:27
in addition to Diane herself, paid the ultimate price. Not one of them deserved to die.
01:06:43
That's going to do it this week. Thank you for joining us. I invite you to go check out our latest episode of Sword and Scale Television entitled Home.
01:07:01
Easily one of the most fucked up things you'll ever see. I promise. Thank you. Thank you.