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there's a new AI model on the scene
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that's smart cheap and made in China
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it's called Deep seek and it's causing a
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panic in Silicon Valley which is paying
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a lot of attention and also on Wall
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Street deep seek has reportedly
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outperformed models from open AI meta
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and anthropic in some tests and it
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operates at a fraction of the cost of
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those models using fewer high-end chips
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this is the ones that are made by Nvidia
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and are hard to get and the incumbents
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have been pricing them up heavily by
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grabbing all of them the markets are not
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reacting well to deep seek as of this
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recording Nvidia is down 16% Oracle is
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down 10% Microsoft is down nearly 4%
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obviously meta is going to be affected
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all the others so there's a lot to talk
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about and I've seen different analysis
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of exactly what deep seek does Yan laon
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from meta was making an argument that it
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isn't as what they're re they're doing
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sort of a cheap and dirty version then
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it's not nearly as the stuff they're
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doing is much more advanced by the US
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companies uh it's currently number one
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on Apple's uh free top apps chart uh
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again China invading it in this country
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in a very different way so thoughts on
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this situation because you and I have
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talked about this quite a bit is this
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money ill spent by us uh companies and
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is it being relegated to the rich
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incumbents well first you just have to
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temper the or put some context to the I
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mean Nvidia is down 15 or 16% it's shed
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something like a half a trillion dollars
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which basically if you take out Tesla
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it's shed today the value of the entire
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Global automobile industry sounds Tesla
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so this is pretty dramatic but at the
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same time that just takes it back to its
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valuation in October
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and when you look at market dynamics
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when these companies have experienced
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these type of run-ups it is like a
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balloon inflating Beyond its natural
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capacity and the slightest the slightest
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touch can pop it and so in some ways the
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market was probably looking for an
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excuse to take these stocks down a bit
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and it got it because what's interesting
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is NVIDIA will have a pretty interesting
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argument on on Capitol Hill saying when
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you refuse to let us sell into these
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countries they come up with workarounds
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and in this case work around might tank
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the US economy and everyone's excited by
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the fact that these models open AI
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supposedly the models their llms cost
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100 million to train and they're
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claiming this thing costs and they've
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been public it's open source cost a
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little over 5 million to train so
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whereas the majority of lm's and U AI
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companies have been taking sort of this
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Brute Force strategy where it's buy as
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many chips as possible this is saying
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maybe you don't need as many chips the
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thing find it equally interesting is the
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second order effects here and that is
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Constellation Energy and some of these
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nuclear stocks have skyrocketed because
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the choke point was supposedly going to
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be energy but now with this this model
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which appears to have chips speaking to
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each other in a more efficient less
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Energy consumptive Way nuclear stocks
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are crashing electric Constellation
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Energy all these things that have had
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incredible run-ups are saying wait the
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entire supply chain or the assumptions
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we made about the supply chain in terms
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of the the kind of the Brute Force of
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chips that we're going to need the
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amount of energy it's all now coming
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into a little bit of question but to be
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clear the correction here is like it's
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taking them back three months and all of
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the stocks that have crashed quote
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unquote crashed are are only up you know
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70% for the year now not 98 and a lot of
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analysts the smart analysts I've read
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have said like every Community or any
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sector it's going to bifurcate into the
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cheap layer and then the high-end layer
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which will still go hard at massive
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Computing and massive energy and do more
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sophisticated things and this will be
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sort of you know everything eventually
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goes Walmart Tiffany right and they're
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saying this might be the Walmart and
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it's the Chinese and they'll come up
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with cheaper models but I it's
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fascinating to see that basically this
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notion this this kind of conventional
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wisdom that you would need massive gpus
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and massive Energy may not be um kind of
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the written in law that we thought it
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was going to be let me read Yan Lon
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who's the head of meta I just read
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recently interviewed him and you can go
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listen to that long interview about this
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but he's writing to the people who see
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the performance of deep seeds and think
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China is surpassing the US and AI you're
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reading this wrong the correct reading
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is open- Source models are surpassing
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proprietary ones deep seek has profited
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from open research in open source for
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example pie torch and llama from meta
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they came up with new ideas and built on
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top of other people's work because their
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work is published and open source
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everyone can profit from it this is the
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power of open research and open source
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obviously this is the way he's talking
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his own book that's correct I was just
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going to make SCE yes that's correct
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that's what I was going to say but it's
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interesting he's having really
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interesting arguments and he said he's
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having a bunch of them which is just
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interesting and one of them that he just
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did because Gary Marcus this guy who's
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somewhat of a a crank a little bit um
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was saying that Congress needs to bring
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in Zuckerberg and Lon to discuss how
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their unilateral open sourcing decision
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rapidly undermined the US advantage in
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general of AI he goes an absolutely
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hilarious take revealing the complete
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misunderstanding of the fact that open
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research open source accelerates
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progress for everyone from some repet
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claimed that deep learning was hitting a
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wall but one of the things he just wrote
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again cuz he's he's he's getting in
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there very deeply major misunderstanding
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about AI infrastructure Investments much
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of those billions are going into
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infrastructure for inference not
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training running AI assistant services
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for billions of people requires a lot of
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compute once you put video understanding
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reasoning large scale memory and other
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capabilities into AI systems inference
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costs are going to increase the only
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real question is whether users will be
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willing to pay enough directly or not to
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justify capex and Opex I think that's
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that's probably he thinks these
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reactions are woefully unjustified and
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at the same times he's sort of arguing
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that they aren't right which is
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interesting interesting interesting it's
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just so typical to Chinese to come up
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the entire Chinese economy was sort of
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built on more us yeah and my guess is
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they had a mandate or they've said all
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right we're not going to have access to
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the same level of high-end ships we need
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workarounds and it's it it appears to
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spond really interesting Innovation and
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using open source yeah using open source
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the I mean the scary thing I I mean in
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typical meta fashion their llm you can
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download a version of llama with
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absolutely no guard rails and you can
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you can request information on anything
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you know the most politically correct I
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find of them is is
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anthropic if I start asking questions
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about insider trading from speaker to
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Emer Pelosi it immediately gives me all
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these things back we cannot endorse nor
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promote strategies around inside of
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trading chpt kind of goes straight into
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it and I think I think llama will say
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well here's what you do you call your
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cousin I find it fascinating it be
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interesting to see what happens to the
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stock I mean these companies have
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already let some air out it's already
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gone to the energy guys it'll be
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interesting to see how the market reacts
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is this I mean the question is and I
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don't know the answer is this the
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beginning of a massive correction that
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will infect the entire NASDAQ the entire
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S&P and quite frankly now these
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companies I don't say become too big to
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fail but they fail you know if they
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sneeze the US economy is going to catch
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a cold right now because the stock
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market's going to crash so is this the
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beginning of the correction we've been
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waiting for for 15 years I mean a real
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correction we had a mild one in 21 or is
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this feel a little nervous I think
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people feel I think people feel a little
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nervous about or or and it's also kind
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of a in a weird way an argument for free
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trade and that is if we had let them
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just buy Nvidia gpus would they have
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figured out this workaround would they
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have felt as motivated to figure out a
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workaround or quite frankly is today one
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of those days we're going to look back
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when we're going to think that was a
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buying opportunity because they're going
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to resume their hyperscaling so I think
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it's fascinating