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our first big story and we've got to get
00:00:01
to it uh is a uh a Wall Street Journal
00:00:04
piece it's a new piece that came out
00:00:06
last night um Elon Musk has used illegal
00:00:08
drugs worrying leaders at Tesla and
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SpaceX the article cites people close to
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musk who say his drug use is ongoing
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that includes board members it feels
00:00:17
like and and one one name specifically
00:00:19
but it looks like they were all talking
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particularly the ketamine and there are
00:00:23
concerns it could cause a Health crisis
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or damage the business uh musk has a lot
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of business um with uh with the
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government and he is already I don't
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know if he was sanctioned but he had to
00:00:33
do drug tests after he smoked weed on
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Joe Rogan this is seemingly more serious
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and it's interesting that um you know
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this has been around we've talked about
00:00:42
it uh Ronan phoh wrote about it like
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lots of people have cited this issue not
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so much in Walter isaacson's book uh
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which it should have uh had more about
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it um but it's a it's sort of an Open
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Secret about this and the Wall Street
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Journal obviously has lawyered up to to
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be able to say this um in a minute we're
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going to bring on uh my brother Jeff
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swisser to help us talk through this one
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uh just first reaction Scott and that
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I'll bring on Jeff First Reactions look
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I we talk a lot about substances uh the
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majority of people I believe who use
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substances manage them and I'm not an
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anti-substance person but um along those
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same lines there's just no free lunch
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and when I saw um when I saw Elon Musk
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in that interview at the times dealbook
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I'm like he's [ __ ] up yeah and and
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there it all comes back to one saying
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what I tell young people around their
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use of substances is there's just no
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free lunch there and what I have and
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I'll stop here but the thing that really
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struck me was when I was in Aspen this
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summer um I was alone and I was bored
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and a friends that I have a bunch of
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friends there and we all went to dinner
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like 12 of us bunch of total players and
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technology and private equity and we
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went to this lounge and I said said what
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can I get every when I'm headed to the
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bar and they said and this guy goes they
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all kind of nodded or laughed and said
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we're all on ketamine and I thought oh
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my God everybody this is like six men
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Six Women and the tech The Tech
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Community likes to believe they have
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found a free lunch and and we said this
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before no repercussions like no such
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thing there's no such thing I haven't
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found it yet maybe caffeine caffeine's
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supposedly the closest thing to a free
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launch but I haven't found it I'm sure
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I'm curious with Dr swisser thanks yeah
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we'll bring him on it was interesting
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because you know this was the holiday
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season this came out um where he has
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some time off um I had heard rumors
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there was rumors running around Silicon
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Valley that they had him in Hawaii last
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year same thing um and obviously he's
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talked about it let's be clear he's
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talked about his use of ketamine he's
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talked about his mental health issues um
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obviously smoked weed on Joe Rogan and
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nothing wrong with that except he has
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government contracts which is is a big
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problem and I think away from his own
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health which makes you worry um because
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there's been history of a lot of tech
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people like this getting into real
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trouble like Tony Shay um and uh you
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know I think it's been an ongoing
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discussion among and between people in
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Silicon Valley and this one example in
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the piece was him being incomprehensible
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during uh a SpaceX meeting um and I
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think you're right that interview I I
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looked at it and I thought what he's on
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something I mean I I don't have any
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reported knowledge of it but it really
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was such a bizarre um interview it
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seemed either mental health or something
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else was happening anyway we're not
00:03:38
experts so we're bringing on my brother
00:03:40
Dr Jeffrey swisser to help us talk
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through this one hey Cara how you doing
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in the house by the way whose idea whose
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idea was it to bring on the good doctor
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whose idea was it you you it was not my
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idea it was your idea but it's a good
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idea thank you Scott and it's good to
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see you when it's not Scott free August
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and uh it's fantastic you look great man
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um I do Cara I do have unfortunately one
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Scott joke for you so Scott a Scotsman
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goes to the doctor's office right and he
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goes into the doctor and he lifts up his
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uh Kilt and he says Doctor I don't know
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I think I'm going crazy and the doctor
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says I don't know about crazy but I can
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sure see your
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nuts oh is like oh is like swi oh is
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like SC Scott are you on ketamine Jeff
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cuz that's what it sounds like no you're
00:04:26
not a ketamine user explain I you use
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ketamine ketamine uh let me talk to you
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a little bit about ketamine so ketamine
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is what's known as a dissociative
00:04:34
anesthetic and that's really important
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to understand you know what it does it
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it dissociates you from essentially
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reality um it was first uh synthesized
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in 1962 the year you were born Cara and
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um it um was FDA approved in around
00:04:52
1970 for use in anesthesia um and I use
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it uh really pretty much on a daily
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basis it's a very very useful anesthetic
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and in fact the World Health
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Organization lists it as one of the you
00:05:04
know invaluable drugs uh in the world
00:05:07
it's really good because it has a lot of
00:05:09
um beneficial effects from an anesthetic
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standpoint it's not a respiratory
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depressant uh in usual doses it's not
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cardiac depressant um in fact it
00:05:19
slightly increases blood pressure and
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heart rate and it doesn't uh blunt
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Airway reflexes so it can be used uh in
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a prehospital setting let's say in the
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emergency room to sedate children uh I
00:05:31
use it as an adjunct anesthetic uh I use
00:05:33
it to because it helps uh decrease the
00:05:35
amount of opiates I use in the operating
00:05:37
room uh I use it for procedural sedation
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if I'm going to be doing something
00:05:41
painful uh let's say a regional
00:05:44
anesthetic block of the upper extremity
00:05:45
I will give somebody you know 30 or 40
00:05:47
milligrams of ketamine and it allows
00:05:49
them to actually participate but
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essentially not be there um in the sense
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that they feel calmer right what's yeah
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actually they do they do you know
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depending on the person they do sort of
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you know leave their their body in a
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sense in fact some people describe aaman
00:06:06
experiences similar to a near-death
00:06:08
experience where they can actually see
00:06:11
themselves let's say floating above
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their body um I the best description of
00:06:15
ketamine from a patient that I ever had
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was uh he told me afterwards he says
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imagine that you're driving a car toward
00:06:22
a beautiful sunset and the Grateful Dead
00:06:24
is playing on the radio and it's a
00:06:25
fantastic wonderful day uh with the
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breeze blowing through the window now
00:06:30
for a second imagine that you're not
00:06:31
driving the car but you are the car and
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you're driving and all of a sudden
00:06:35
you're not driving the car you're a
00:06:36
passenger in the car and uh and that's
00:06:39
really a really great description of
00:06:40
ketamine people describe a feeling of
00:06:42
melting you know you've heard the
00:06:44
expression khole um K people sort of
00:06:48
fall into this kind of warm molasses pit
00:06:51
when they're on it and it's a very
00:06:52
pleasant experience for most people not
00:06:54
everybody some people do get you know
00:06:57
you know frightening dreams Etc on it
00:06:59
for most part it's a great anesthetic
00:07:01
short happen with surgery where they get
00:07:03
dreams or anything oh yeah all the time
00:07:05
I mean people describe you know one of
00:07:07
the most common uses for it is um when
00:07:10
I'm doing let's say a little old lady U
00:07:13
with a hip fracture and it's very
00:07:15
painful to put someone on their side uh
00:07:18
to do a spinal anesthetic so I'll give
00:07:20
them 10 or 20 milligrams of ketamine and
00:07:23
they love it I mean they wake up
00:07:24
afterwards and they say that's the best
00:07:26
experience I've ever had so it's a very
00:07:28
euphoric drug and I can understand why
00:07:30
people would use it for recreational
00:07:32
purposes uh not that it's safe to do so
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um
00:07:37
because talk about it in a recreational
00:07:39
context out outside of the medical
00:07:41
context and that is my understanding is
00:07:43
in contrast with alcohol or opiates it's
00:07:45
not physically addictive but it can be
00:07:47
psychologically addictive and that's
00:07:50
exactly right what we were saying before
00:07:51
is that Tech Bros or the Tech Community
00:07:54
or just successful people in general
00:07:57
like to believe they found a better
00:07:59
blueberry or a better solar panel like
00:08:02
their Tech their diet is better and I
00:08:06
have found the same thing is true here
00:08:08
that people feel that ketamine is a
00:08:10
safer High talk about it in the context
00:08:14
of addiction and you know recreational
00:08:17
use sure so you know ketamine a it's
00:08:20
widely available it's very inexpensive
00:08:21
to make and therefore you can get it
00:08:24
fairly easily uh on the street um it is
00:08:27
a you know relative ly safe drug in in
00:08:31
the sense that you know as opposed to
00:08:33
methamphetamine which can be really
00:08:35
dangerous if you have you know you know
00:08:37
cardiac issues ETC or cocaine um the the
00:08:41
problem is that like any recreational
00:08:44
drug uh people tend to binge it uh they
00:08:46
like the feeling of it and then they
00:08:48
need to start upping their doses um of
00:08:50
ketamine and I mean you know the really
00:08:52
unfortunate situation that happened
00:08:54
recently is Matthew Perry um and Matthew
00:08:57
Perry was legitimately getting therapy
00:09:00
with ketamine for depression and we can
00:09:02
talk about that if you want at some
00:09:03
point but but the uh the problem is he
00:09:06
he also was using it recreationally and
00:09:09
and he also had other substances in his
00:09:12
body on the Corner's report yeah so the
00:09:14
piece quotes uh an attorney uh for musk
00:09:16
saying that he is quote regularly and
00:09:18
randomly drug tested at SpaceX and has
00:09:20
never failed a test but we don't know
00:09:23
can you talk about and the attorney said
00:09:25
there are other false facts In The Wall
00:09:27
Street Journal but didn't have any
00:09:28
details so um this is Alex SPO who who
00:09:31
is sort of musk's lawyer front man but
00:09:35
um what do you how do you think about
00:09:37
drug testing on this on this kind of
00:09:39
thing well you can there are ways of
00:09:42
testing for ketamine the the metabolite
00:09:44
it's metabolized by the liver and
00:09:45
there's several metabolites of ketamine
00:09:47
which are detectable uh it's cleared uh
00:09:50
by the liver but it's excreted in urine
00:09:51
and feces so you can certainly test for
00:09:53
it uh the problem is it's a fairly short
00:09:55
acting medication and um uh it depends
00:09:59
when you use it and what the levels are
00:10:01
clearly with Matthew Perry for instance
00:10:03
they had it immediately because you know
00:10:04
he wasn't metabolizing anymore after he
00:10:06
died but um but for people who are using
00:10:10
it you have to catch it fairly soon
00:10:12
after they use it to detect it uh which
00:10:14
is one of the reason Scott uh you
00:10:16
mentioned that I think a lot of these uh
00:10:17
Tech Bros and stuff are using it um but
00:10:20
you know great caution because dosing is
00:10:23
very important the other thing about
00:10:25
ketamine I want to mention is that it
00:10:26
can be given via a variety of routes
00:10:29
uh so you can inject it intravenously
00:10:31
you can subcutaneously inject it you can
00:10:33
intramuscularly inject it you can snort
00:10:36
it you can swallow it you can put it up
00:10:38
your behind if you want uh there's a lot
00:10:40
of ways of taking ketamine and so it's
00:10:43
very um bioavailable as put it that way
00:10:45
you know intravenously yeah bioavailable
00:10:48
100% intravenously down to about 50% if
00:10:51
you take it orally or or sorted it's
00:10:53
about 50 to 70% how do most people when
00:10:56
you you give it you do it intravenously
00:10:57
because you're in an operating I do both
00:10:59
people recre when I give it I give it
00:11:02
intravenously and intramuscularly it's a
00:11:04
very useful drug let's say if you have a
00:11:06
person with a um you know severe mental
00:11:09
disorder who is combative uh prior to
00:11:11
anesthesia and I want to start an IV uh
00:11:14
I can give people intramuscular ketamine
00:11:16
in that situation uh and it takes a
00:11:18
little bit but then they'll sort of fall
00:11:19
asleep but usually I give it
00:11:21
intravenously but I think most people
00:11:23
who using it recreationally are probably
00:11:25
snorting it snorting it okay so um let's
00:11:28
talk about the Matthew Perot you were
00:11:30
referencing he the the corner said he
00:11:32
died from the acute effects of ketamine
00:11:34
um uh he was on ketamine infusion
00:11:37
therapy as you noted um talk a little
00:11:40
bit about these therapies because you
00:11:42
know I I'm about to interview Joe Green
00:11:44
tomorrow there's a lot of people trying
00:11:46
very hard to replace opiates and other
00:11:48
things with ketamine and other
00:11:50
psychedelics um is it is that
00:11:54
problematic or is just the abuse
00:11:56
problematic um I I think it's the abuse
00:11:59
a problematic I mean ketamine um for for
00:12:02
depression is an off-label use I mean
00:12:04
and not that off Lael uses are wrong in
00:12:06
fact we we every day doctors use
00:12:09
medications in an off-label manner it
00:12:11
just means it's not FDA approved for
00:12:13
that indication um they actually did
00:12:15
make a what's called an an Anan of
00:12:18
ketamine uh called esketamine which is a
00:12:20
nasal spray which was approved by the
00:12:23
FDA I think in
00:12:25
2019 uh it's called spado and that's
00:12:29
that that was the indication for that is
00:12:31
depression and it's and as I said it's a
00:12:33
mirror isomer of ketamine it's the same
00:12:35
drug but the mirror isomer of it um but
00:12:38
ketamine clinics have popped up like
00:12:40
Kudzu you know all over the place and uh
00:12:43
it's very very expensive I mean
00:12:44
thousands of dollars for uh a couple
00:12:47
sessions of injecting now keep in mind
00:12:49
that the injection of ketamine in these
00:12:51
clinics is a very small dose it's
00:12:53
typically a half a milligram per
00:12:55
kilogram so usually 30 to 40 Mig in used
00:12:59
over about a 40-minute period that's not
00:13:01
a lot it's not a lot to get you super
00:13:03
high um a little dissociative but not
00:13:05
super high when you're using it
00:13:07
recreationally you know who knows how
00:13:09
much people are using they you know you
00:13:11
can't really regulate your dosage right
00:13:13
now now one thing Elon tweeted about
00:13:15
ketamine last June depression is
00:13:17
overdiagnosed in the US um but for some
00:13:19
people it is really brain chemistry
00:13:21
issue he went on to say zombifying
00:13:23
people with
00:13:24
ssris uh for sure happens way too much
00:13:26
from what I've seen with friends
00:13:28
ketamine yeah my best some of my best
00:13:30
friends use ketamine ketamine taken
00:13:31
occasionally is a better option um how
00:13:35
do you when you hear him say that I mean
00:13:37
a lot of people have problems with
00:13:39
SSRS ssris yeah Ser selective serotonin
00:13:43
reuptake Inhibitors um is what that
00:13:46
stands for so ketamine is in the class
00:13:48
of drugs that are called nmda
00:13:50
antagonists and there's a lot of uh of
00:13:54
um very useful uh work that's being done
00:13:57
understanding nmda and agonists in
00:13:59
general for depression and the research
00:14:02
on it is it's a I wouldn't say it's
00:14:04
definitive but it's definitely
00:14:05
statistically significant that ketamine
00:14:09
definitely improves symptoms of both
00:14:10
unipolar and bipolar depression um in
00:14:14
the short term the question is is it a
00:14:16
lasting effect that's hard to know and I
00:14:18
think that's ongoing research and
00:14:21
personally I think you know Mr musk is
00:14:23
correct in that sense I mean ssris are
00:14:26
very different uh and um then ketamine
00:14:29
still though ketamine is not a first
00:14:31
line therapy for depression it's
00:14:32
probably like a third line therapy but a
00:14:35
lot of people they're trying to get it
00:14:36
to be one for people with post-traumatic
00:14:38
stress Etc sure yeah PTSD is a good
00:14:41
indication for it um and you know I
00:14:43
personally know people whove had
00:14:44
ketamine therapy who swear by it who say
00:14:47
that it's really improved them um and so
00:14:50
I do think that you know shutting down
00:14:51
any kind of research on this that's why
00:14:53
I don't really like that Matthew Perry
00:14:55
article or even this Wall Street Journal
00:14:56
article because it demonizes uh a very
00:14:58
useful drug uh and ketamine is a very
00:15:01
useful drug I mean similar what happened
00:15:04
with Michael Jackson and propal I mean
00:15:06
every day people tell me you're not
00:15:08
going to give me that propofol drug it's
00:15:09
like yeah basically it's the most common
00:15:11
anesthetic in the world yes I'm going to
00:15:12
give it by the way it's amazing you know
00:15:14
when it is oh it's amazing it's amazing
00:15:17
whenever I've had a colonoscopy I take
00:15:19
that thing and 30 minutes later I'm I'm
00:15:22
I mean it's
00:15:24
amazing yeah no it's it's it's literally
00:15:26
probably the greatest invention in
00:15:28
anesthesia
00:15:29
in its history um but but K not for
00:15:32
daily nightly use no so that's the
00:15:34
problem is that you you know using
00:15:35
propofol in your living room by someone
00:15:37
who did not admit you know so they they
00:15:39
it's not the drug that's the problem
00:15:41
it's the person giving it or the person
00:15:42
taking it my sense is more generally as
00:15:45
it relates to drugs in our society and I
00:15:47
don't know if it's the far right or an
00:15:49
attempt to use drugs as a tool to keep
00:15:52
people of color down through
00:15:54
incarceration and Drug bill whatever it
00:15:56
might be but we have a tendency to go
00:15:58
very black and white uh marijuana helps
00:16:01
people sleep helps people with anxiety
00:16:03
helps kids with glaucoma but we just
00:16:05
decided oh it was all bad and it strikes
00:16:09
me that no one wants to have a Nuance
00:16:10
conversation around what is an
00:16:12
appropriate use of a drug and the fact
00:16:14
that something like 85% of people who
00:16:16
use alcohol and drugs are functioning
00:16:19
it's not impacting them in a terribly
00:16:21
negative way having said that alcohol is
00:16:25
a menace and terrible for tens of
00:16:27
millions of homes in America America but
00:16:29
nobody wants to have really what I would
00:16:31
describe as a thoughtful conversation
00:16:33
they want to assign something is only
00:16:35
used in a medical context but when it's
00:16:37
used outside of a medical context it's
00:16:39
immediately it must be all negative and
00:16:41
all bad and we demonize it criminalize
00:16:43
it and in my view just make make things
00:16:46
you know much much worse anyways it
00:16:48
wasn't a question it was a TED Talk yeah
00:16:50
I mean it's you're right the most
00:16:52
commonly abused drug by far in way is
00:16:54
alcohol and you know more people drown
00:16:56
because they uh are you know know drunk
00:16:59
and you know doing stupid things in
00:17:00
boats than than have ever been you know
00:17:03
drowned by ketamine it was not even
00:17:05
close right right but this creates a
00:17:07
situation when they're trying to bring
00:17:09
ketamine and other psychedelics into
00:17:11
really good medical uses and then it
00:17:14
gets you know either glamorized and
00:17:16
demonized both glamorized and demonized
00:17:18
by people like musk and others um which
00:17:21
is you know before it's a cart before
00:17:23
the horse because I think they will be
00:17:24
using these um it's an intriguing drug
00:17:27
correct um Scott what's what's the
00:17:29
responsibility of a board member in this
00:17:31
situation it looks like several board
00:17:33
members talked here someone's worried
00:17:35
this is why I can't imagine the journal
00:17:37
would move forward this uh you know rert
00:17:40
Murdoch and the Murdoch family would
00:17:41
move without some level of assurance
00:17:44
that they and I have to tell you
00:17:46
Discovery would be fascinating because I
00:17:48
don't think you know the stories of
00:17:50
elon's wild Hardy life are really quite
00:17:53
out there all the time and they just are
00:17:55
they just the governance question here
00:17:57
is complicated because supposedly there
00:17:59
was a director who resigned over
00:18:01
concerns of of most because they weren't
00:18:04
doing anything about it but I would
00:18:05
argue he doesn't and this goes to a
00:18:07
broader issue here I I would argue that
00:18:09
he doesn't have any governance that it's
00:18:11
family members and people who have made
00:18:12
so much money because of his genius and
00:18:14
his bold innovations that effectively
00:18:17
they have no power they're there to have
00:18:19
dinner once every three months and
00:18:20
collect a big check because his behavior
00:18:23
would not be tolerated across anything
00:18:25
resembling what you would call a real
00:18:27
Board of Governors are supposed to
00:18:28
represent fiduciaries they just they
00:18:30
just wouldn't allow it so he doesn't
00:18:32
have the the the duties the the the duty
00:18:37
and care that is levied on fiduciaries
00:18:39
in the form of boards of directors does
00:18:42
not and has not applied to Elon Musk for
00:18:44
a long long time the fact that he's
00:18:46
still on Twitter that would never be
00:18:48
allowed of a CEO who had done what he
00:18:51
has done a CEO incorrectly accuses
00:18:53
former employees of being pedophiles
00:18:56
would never be allowed to be a SE o he
00:18:58
plays by a different set of standards
00:19:00
and whether you think he should be
00:19:01
allowed to or not but it goes to a much
00:19:04
broader issue and I think the key issue
00:19:05
here and what I would describe as the
00:19:07
learning or the takeaway for young
00:19:08
people and that is the most important
00:19:11
thing you can have in your life is
00:19:13
people who love you and serve as
00:19:15
guardrails and to have people idolize
00:19:17
you is different than having people who
00:19:19
love you and I think the guy has a lot
00:19:21
of the former and not a lot of the
00:19:23
latter and as someone who has
00:19:25
participated in interventions they don't
00:19:27
invite powerful important people to
00:19:30
those interventions they invite people
00:19:32
who love you and this is turning into a
00:19:35
cautionary tale along the lines of Tony
00:19:38
Shay because you have a guy who as far
00:19:41
as I can tell is living alone doesn't
00:19:43
have a close relationship with a
00:19:45
romantic partner or his children and is
00:19:48
quite frankly just [ __ ] off the rails
00:19:52
and if if at the age of 52 you don't
00:19:54
have people in your life who can sit you
00:19:56
down and you listen to cuz because you
00:19:58
know that it's not that they got rich
00:20:01
because of you it's not because they
00:20:02
think you're just so [ __ ] awesome and
00:20:04
can land rockets on two surfboards it's
00:20:06
because they just full stop care about
00:20:09
you if you don't have that especially
00:20:12
men you you literally can lose it all
00:20:16
what happens with extended use of
00:20:19
ketamine if you use it a lot and there's
00:20:21
no guard rails as Scott says there
00:20:23
should be and I agree um what happens
00:20:26
over time to your mental state or do we
00:20:29
not know this I guess we probably do
00:20:31
right well yeah I mean there's some
00:20:33
research on chronic long-term use of
00:20:35
ketamine effects on the liver and on the
00:20:37
kidney I mean there are there are you
00:20:39
know physiologic effects of it which you
00:20:41
know large large scale use of it can be
00:20:44
toxic to your liver and kidney more
00:20:46
importantly I think though is then what
00:20:47
happens than well you could get I mean
00:20:49
anything can damage your liver I mean
00:20:51
there's there's so many well alcohol
00:20:53
number one is the biggest but uh so the
00:20:56
the big problem I think with ketamine is
00:20:58
uh the psychological as Scott mentioned
00:21:00
before the SK the psychological
00:21:02
dependence on it and it is a
00:21:04
dissociative anesthetic so you're not
00:21:06
going to behave normally if you're doing
00:21:08
high doses of ketamine it just will make
00:21:11
you not functional as a you know human
00:21:14
being you'll be you know high and and
00:21:17
then Scott as Elon also has a lot of
00:21:18
government contracts which was mentioned
00:21:20
in the journal article as CEO and
00:21:22
founder of SpaceX and he's also the key
00:21:24
man there musk has a security clearance
00:21:26
that gives him access to classified
00:21:28
information I think the journal was
00:21:29
trying to pin a like here's why we're
00:21:32
writing this thing um and obviously the
00:21:34
government has already uh objected when
00:21:36
he was doing the weed on Rogan this is a
00:21:39
Quantum level of problem I would think
00:21:42
yeah but again he's he's an exceptional
00:21:44
person that people and organizations
00:21:46
make exceptions for so for example he
00:21:49
can put a breakthrough heavy rocket he
00:21:52
can launch it and it can blow up and he
00:21:56
just puts another one up in a few weeks
00:21:58
NASA could never do that NASA could
00:21:59
never send projectiles into space to
00:22:01
blow up he is willing to take risks and
00:22:04
has access to Capital such that he can
00:22:06
put together
00:22:07
Communications um low orbit
00:22:09
Communications networks that the
00:22:10
government at least in this current
00:22:12
infrastructure or current regulatory
00:22:13
environment isn't able to do so he plays
00:22:15
a really valuable role and I I don't
00:22:17
want to be an apologist for the guy but
00:22:19
to think that he's going to be subject
00:22:20
to anything resembling the same
00:22:22
standards as other contractors you might
00:22:23
find it unfair and it is he there are
00:22:28
there are so many things he would have
00:22:30
lost all security clearances for that
00:22:32
the government has made exceptions
00:22:33
around he just plays by a different set
00:22:35
of rules and and I don't I'm not saying
00:22:38
that's right or wrong but you could
00:22:40
never see the head of the forestry
00:22:43
service or the CIA going on podcast
00:22:45
smoking a joint that person wouldn't be
00:22:48
allowed in the government a government
00:22:49
building again I I think it'll be
00:22:51
interesting to see how we react so last
00:22:53
question for each of you Scott how do
00:22:54
you think a musk is going to react I
00:22:56
haven't seen anything yet yet I have no
00:22:59
ability to predict his actions Cara I
00:23:01
just don't I don't understand um he'll
00:23:05
threaten to Susan yeah but I I don't
00:23:07
that's his goto and I think all his fans
00:23:09
will come to his come to his defense and
00:23:12
say that he's being persecuted and it's
00:23:15
bad reporting but I don't I you know
00:23:19
actually when I read that I felt bad
00:23:21
because I I I have had some people in my
00:23:23
life who have an addiction and I find
00:23:25
that slowly but surely when you know
00:23:27
you've lost them
00:23:28
is when they choose I remember one of
00:23:31
the interventions I was in one of the
00:23:33
most rattling moments I've ever had
00:23:34
everyone went around kid was addicted um
00:23:37
to heroin everyone around said their
00:23:39
peace said I love you all your heart's
00:23:41
in the right place I know this is going
00:23:42
to kill me I choose
00:23:45
heroin I
00:23:46
mean no one knew what to say so if he in
00:23:51
fact is I think he plays an important
00:23:53
role I don't like the man I think he
00:23:55
abuses his power but as it relates to
00:23:57
the Govern government Innovation he does
00:23:59
play an important role and you just got
00:24:01
to Hope a guy with 11 or 12 kids like
00:24:04
that gets help and you also hope that
00:24:08
the right way to react is if in fact he
00:24:10
is struggling that he's open about his
00:24:12
struggles and people can learn from it
00:24:14
because I do think a lot of people are
00:24:16
fighting these demons in quiet and and a
00:24:19
guy like that who is literally the idol
00:24:22
of of billions of people you know
00:24:25
optimistically you'd like to think he
00:24:26
could play a key role in educ about it
00:24:28
how he's what he's actually going to do
00:24:30
I have no idea you know him better than
00:24:31
I do car I back I think his tweets have
00:24:34
become I think this article means a lot
00:24:36
of people close to him are worried again
00:24:38
as they were last Christmas time um and
00:24:41
when there's a little downtime and I
00:24:44
think that's what it looked like to me
00:24:45
when I was I was like oh I know who that
00:24:47
who said that you know what I mean like
00:24:48
I could guess um so I think a lot of
00:24:50
people are worried um and they're
00:24:53
worried for a bad outcome in lots of
00:24:55
ways um not just economically
00:24:58
and maybe this was their way of talking
00:25:00
to him um his tweets recently have been
00:25:03
pretty unhinged or or juvenile recently
00:25:06
they're not they've not been I'm
00:25:07
spending some time thinking or anything
00:25:09
like that and so Jee that's my last
00:25:11
question if you were I know some of his
00:25:13
doctors um if you were his doctor what
00:25:16
would you say to him if he were to
00:25:20
listen well I would say that you know
00:25:23
any kind of poly substance abuse uh is
00:25:26
not necessarily in your best health
00:25:28
interests and uh you know clearly you
00:25:30
don't go around uh doing fairly powerful
00:25:35
um psychoactive medications and drive a
00:25:37
car or fly a plane or buy multi-billion
00:25:41
dollar uh social media companies um and
00:25:45
I think that um that's what I would tell
00:25:47
them it's just like you know like the
00:25:49
old adage everything in moderation I
00:25:51
mean one thing I just want to be clear
00:25:53
that you your listeners understand that
00:25:55
ketamine is not a dangerous drug in the
00:25:58
right hands uh but like any drug it can
00:26:01
be misused and it's a very useful drug
00:26:03
and I would hate to see a drug like
00:26:06
ketamine which is so useful being
00:26:08
demonized and there'll be government
00:26:10
reaction against it etc etc that would
00:26:12
be the worst possible thing that could
00:26:14
happen uh because it is a very useful
00:26:16
medication but I would just tell him you
00:26:18
know like Al I mean the same thing that
00:26:20
would if somebody came in and they were
00:26:21
showing signs of alcoholism I would say
00:26:24
this is really bad for you uh and this
00:26:26
is why you just give them information he
00:26:28
clearly is a very smart man and um you
00:26:31
know you try to appeal to people's
00:26:37
reason