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[Music]
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Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York
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Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast
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Network. I'm Cara Swisser
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and I'm Scott Galloway.
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So, we have a special uh emergency uh
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video episode because of uh Utah
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authorities have arrested a suspect
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accused of assassinating uh conservative
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activist Charlie Kirk after a two-day
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manhunt. 22-year-old Tyler Robinson was
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taken into custody late Thursday and is
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believed to have acted alone. Officials
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say Robinson made incriminating
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statements to relatives and sent discord
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messages about retrieving a rifle from a
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drop point. Uh investigators also say
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they found uh on messages messages on
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the ammunition, the bullets, including
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anti-fascist slogans and references to
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video games and online memes and also an
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anti-gay uh remark. Uh Robinson is
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registered voter in Utah but doesn't
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have a party affiliation. and his family
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is seems to be Republican uh Christian
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uh gun oriented uh as many people in
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Utah are. Uh Scott, what are your
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initial thoughts when you heard about
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this suspect?
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Well, my initial thoughts are how
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disappointed Representative Mace,
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President Trump, and Jesse Waters might
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be that it's not a transgender
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uh woman with blue hair working on
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immigration for AOC.
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Yeah, exactly. They have all promised us
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that in exchange for this needless death
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that they were going to declare war. And
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so my question is, are they going to
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declare war on young white heterosexual
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men who come from Mormon families who
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traditionally have voted Republican or
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gun ownersh?
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So the notion somehow that they are
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trying to pin this on quote unquote the
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radical Yeah.
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left.
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Yeah.
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Is just so insane. And well, I'll let
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you respond and then I have some
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thoughts about solutions.
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Well, here's the deal. Um, I I think
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saying something before we knew
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anything, I was hoping, you know what I
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mean? We all are like hoping that this
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doesn't give them what they need, but
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particularly two people that well
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besides President Trump who absolutely
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abregated every one of his
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responsibilities as the
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commander-in-chief by immediately
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accusing people of things and then
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front-loading the entire thing. He gave
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a a speech this I mean a interview this
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morning on Fox News that was insane.
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Actually, I've I've always thought that
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he is batshit crazy, but this was even
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by those standards, it was batshit
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crazy. Um, and it was uh it was violent.
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It was it was talking about war, etc.,
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etc. I found two people in two well now
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three. Mike Lee, the Utah uh senator.
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Um, three people just terrible. Jesse
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Waters at Fox News, you know, if if
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Matthew Dow was fired from MSNBC, he
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should be fired from Fox. Secondly, the
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way he talked about war were at war were
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um uh Nancy Mace calling it a [ __ ]
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killer is as usual as unhinged as ever.
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Listen, this is we don't know why this
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guy did this. We don't actually know a
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lot about him. We know his family
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background. We know, you know, obviously
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uh a little bit about him from what's
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written, but really we don't. All we
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know is one thing that I would say and
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I'd love to hear your thoughts on this
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is that he's extremely online. He is
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obviously the stuff on the bullets.
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Anyone who has any minute I was trying
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to figure out is he Groper which is sort
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of the Nick Fuentes gang. I can't tell.
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There's so many different memes going on
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here and they're all dank by the way. So
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I couldn't even say was it Nick Quentes?
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Is he you know there was a bit of Antifa
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in there. There was all kinds of nasty
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[ __ ] um that he was but I do know he was
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steeped in dank memes of the internet
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that are uh radicalizing young people,
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you know, especially mostly men, mostly
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young men, mostly young white men,
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right? Um, and I think it's really
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troubling and you know, you've just
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you're about to come out with a book
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about this, but so I'd love to hear
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solutions, but it's eminently clear this
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kid was online, deeply and unfortunately
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online. I would say
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there are two fairly obvious common
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sense solutions that unfortunately cost
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a lot of money or diminish the
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shareholder value of key companies that
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are driving our entire economy and get
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in the way of the political narrative of
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special interest groups in charge right
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now. The first and most obvious solution
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is that Australia and the UK just don't
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have cultures that much different than
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us. The last time they had a mass
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shooting, they put in place sensible gun
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control. What do you know? No mass
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shootings. Since Charlie Kirk was
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murdered, more people have been shot and
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killed in the US than will be shot and
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killed in the UK over the next year.
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The UK will lose 30 people to gun
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violence in the next 12 months. We lose
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120 people a day.
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That's a lot. Their numbers,
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right? So, if you want to take down
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political violence and all gun violence,
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you just have to have sensible gun
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reform. And we like to think that we
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live in a democracy. No, we don't. We
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have a passive majority that is bested
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by wellorganized special interest
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groups. Gun control. Number two, every
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one of these political assassinations,
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almost all heroic acts of people trying
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to regain social capital, heroic acts of
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violence are young men. And 40% of the
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market cap of the S&P in our entire
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economy right now, US is increasingly
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used to be a platform for prosperity and
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rights. It's become increasingly a
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platform for shareholder value. Full
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stop. 40% of the S&P is now 10
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companies. And the primary objective of
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those 10 companies
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is to create more and more engagement
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and more and more time online. I get
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that these are not malicious bad people,
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but the algorithms they have programmed
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have figured out that enragement equals
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engagement. And when you have men
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sequestering from work because of remote
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work, when you have men spending more
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and more time online finding Reddit,
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when you have algorithms that want to
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convince them that their enemy is a
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Republican or a Democrat or an
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immigrant, as opposed to saying, "Oh,
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no, actually your enemy is the CCP or
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Russians pouring over the border of
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Ukraine." And they're not going to
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church. They're not they're not
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establishing romantic relationships.
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They sequester from their family. And
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when you put an orca killer whale in a
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tank alone, it goes crazy. When you when
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you when you leave a dog alone, it goes
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crazy. And when you take an individual
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who has a profit incentive behind him of
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the god-like technology commanded by
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these companies and convince that person
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they don't need to have relationships
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with other people. When young men don't
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have guardrails, they go down rabbit
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holes and they get radicalized. Yeah. We
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need gun control and we need third
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spaces and we need more involvement in
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young men's lives or this is only going
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to get worse and we need regulation
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against these companies.
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From what I can tell, this kid had a
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very close family by the way, FYI. And
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which is interesting, but one of the
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things that was is coming out of some of
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the reporting and I urge people there is
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so much misinformation out there. You do
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not know what is happening with this
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kid. We don't know anything yet at all.
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and don't believe, including do not
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believe the president of the United
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States on what he says about this. He's
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inaccurate. Okay? Don't believe a lot of
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your leaders about this. Wait until we
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get good information about what happened
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with this kid. Secondly, um he's what's
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really critically important here is to
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calm the [ __ ] down, right? That the the
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the the instant trying to now I
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understand. Let me just give a minute of
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empathy. I understand that these people
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have lost a friend, okay, in a terrible,
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murderous way. But it doesn't give them
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as leaders rights to take it out on the
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rest of us. And taking it out on trans
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people, taking it out on without any
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knowledge is incredibly irresponsible
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and not what we deserve as citizens of
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this country. And we ourselves are
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responsible, too. We cannot listen to
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this. I don't know what whether this kid
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is. He's definitely not uh like a
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Democratic liberal. That's for sure. But
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what I we don't know anything about him.
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What it feels like is that he's a
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nealist. That's what it feels like. And
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too many kids are feeling this way
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because of what Scott was just saying
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was being extremely online and feeling
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isolated and feeling a rage and then
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having access to a weapon, having
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enormous access to weapons. Look, I I I
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we gun control does not mean not being
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able to have guns. It means not being
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involved with this many guns in the
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hands of people who who really don't
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have an ability to figure out what
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they're doing. And so I don't know what
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made this kid climb up on that roof and
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kill someone. It's just an astonishing
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leap. Uh but it cannot keep happening.
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And it does keep happening. And I I urge
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everyone to calm down. And again,
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Spencer Cox actually gave the best
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speech here again is go touch some
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grass. I can't believe I heard touch
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grass from you a Republican Utah Sen uh
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governor, but touch grass. Get out
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there. Get offline. Stop being angry
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scrolling incessantly. These companies
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do not care about you. I keep saying
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that. And Scott doesn't say they're
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malicious. I think it's become
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malicious. Whether they are or not, get
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offline. They're here to make money off
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of you. And it's time for us to to to
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take control of ourselves. Scott, you
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finish up.
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Well, Mark Beni off compared social
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media to cigarette companies, but when
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you smoke a pack of Mal Bros, you then
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don't decide to self harm or get
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radicalized and convince yourself the
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right thing to do is to take up violence
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against others. If if we continue to let
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uh guns be everywhere and have social
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media platforms that have godlike
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technology
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and we have these paleolithic
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institutions uh subject to regulatory
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capture not able to regulate them, we're
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going to take more and more young people
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offline. And what social media does to
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young girls is it convinces them to harm
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themselves. And what it does to young
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men is it convinces them or gives them
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license to harm themselves. and harm
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others. This is going to get worse
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unless we face obvious but expensive
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solutions that unfortunately will take
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the value of these 10 companies from 40%
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of the S&P to 38%. And our platforms
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uh armed with lobbyists and our
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government have decided that that 38%
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versus 40% is worth the cost of
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violence.
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Absolutely. We are at war, but we're not
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at the war you think we're in. We are
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we've got to put a stop to this and
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bring peace to this country. It's just
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I'm not doing thoughts and prayers. I'm
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not doing let's be peaceful. This is
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going to take an enormous amount of
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effort and pugnacity on the behalf of a
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lot of people and it's it's long past
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time uh to to put put an end to this and
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get it out of our bloodstream. All
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right. Uh that's the show. Thanks for
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watching this special episode and be
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sure to like and subscribe to our
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YouTube channel. We'll be back next
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week. Scott, go out and touch grass,
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please. I I demand it.
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Great advice. Thanks, Cara.