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Savannah Guthrie is the co-anchor of the
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Today's Show and NBC news's Chief legal
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correspondent she's also the author of
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mostly what God does Reflections on
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seeking and finding his love everywhere
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I want to be clear this is the real
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Savannah Guthrie we're talking to not
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the AI or deep fake Savannah Guthrie
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we'll talk about that in a minute but I
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first want to talk about the impetus for
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the book because when you told me about
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it um we text from time to time you said
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you're this not what you think it's
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going to be and you were almost
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apologetic it was interesting um and
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that this would surprise people who know
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you as Savannah gothy journalist
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interviewer you do tough interviews uh
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you're on the Today's Show you're very
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well known talk you're talking about
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your faith here tell talk to me about
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what the impetus was because I was
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surprised actually I had no idea I know
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I was surprised too and I mean almost
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apologetic is just my zone you know
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that's where I live that's where that's
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the the emotional space I in habit for
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um most of my day but you know honestly
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I my faith has been important to me
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always has been and all my close friends
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and my colleagues everyone knows that so
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I don't mean that they would be
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surprised but more that I was surprised
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that it was something I wanted to write
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about or put out there publicly not
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because I was ashamed but because it's
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so it's so personal it's so vulnerable I
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mean if you're going to write a book
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about faith and it is in any way
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authentic then you're more or less
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putting your heart out there and in this
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world which I don't have to remind you
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that's really terrifying and so for me
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to put it out there like that um I'm
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certainly not holding myself up as any
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kind of model of behavior or anything
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I'm not any kind of Theologian or
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biblical scholar it's just Reflections
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from a a real person a real life more
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learning more from disappointments and
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setbacks at any time sure so one of the
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things though is let's leave aside the
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performative people who talk about
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religion who do it for some other reason
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um you were a quiet faithful person as
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me as most people are you know what I
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mean that people they don't do you think
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people are scared not scared and asham
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to talk about it but you because it's so
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personal that's why you didn't want to
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you don't talk about
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it or publicly I guess yeah well I mean
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first of all everyone knows yeah
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publicly I mean I have talked about it
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you know from time to time which is how
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this opportunity to write about it came
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to me you know I've certainly never run
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from it but you know I think people are
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quiet about their faith because for one
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thing AR isn't the Mantra you're not
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supposed to talk about religion politics
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Happ one of those has to
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hold yes it doesn't it doesn't but also
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because you know this isn't I'm not out
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here trying to proti or persuade I'm I
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the the truth of the matter is I never
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thought I would write a book about God I
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I never thought I'd write any book and I
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and I didn't want to really I was happy
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to just have this be something personal
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to me but when the opportunity came up I
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found myself not able to say the
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immediate no I've said to every other
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offer of any kind of writing whatsoever
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and the reason was was because it seemed
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intriguing it seemed challenging it
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seems terrifying and it's the subject
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I'm most passionate and interested in
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and I'm always telling you know
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especially young producers or interns or
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people that have ever asked me for
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advice I always say you know get out of
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your comfort zone anything interesting
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you do in your life will be outside your
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comfort zone it's on the other side of a
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big risk that you take and it had been a
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while since I had taken my own advice
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and so I thought I'm going to try a lot
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about um some deep by the way it's a
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bestseller so it's doing people are
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responding to it um in the book you
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write about some deeply personal topics
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including the loss of your father who
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died when you were teenagers you also
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talk about your husband and your kids
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and how you see both marriage and
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Parenthood as metaphors for
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relationships with god um talk a little
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bit about this why you wrote it the way
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you
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did well the big Revelation is mostly
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what God does that's the title of the
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book and the rest of the sentence is
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mostly what God does is love you and I
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grew up in the church I had a
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traditional kind of Baptist upbringing
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and there's a lot about that that I
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still love and treasure but there was
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also a lot of guilt and shame and rules
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and of sense for me of always failing
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never Measuring Up and always kind of
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wondering what this looming God figure
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might have thought of me and through a
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life of again more mistakes than
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anything else what I came to realize is
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that mostly what God is doing at any
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given time is loving us it comes
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actually from scripture it comes from a
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verse in Ephesians that was retranslated
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by a scholar named Eugene Peterson and
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this the verse goes watch what God does
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and you do it too the way children learn
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proper behavior from their parents
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mostly what God does is love you when I
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read that sentence years and years ago
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it was a radical reframing of how I
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thought about God rather than this angry
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Taskmaster scolding or being
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disappointed or you know having a bill
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of particulars of all the ways we and
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all of humanity fails
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mostly what God is doing is loving you
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that's true for me it's true for you
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it's even true for Scott who's very
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silent talk a minute comes in with the
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big I'm I'm I'm teasing but the thing is
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is that I I wrote about it in the in the
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terms of Parenthood because that was
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another moment where when I had kids I
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was in my 40s I was so lucky to get to
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have kids at that late date long after I
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thought I had screwed up everything and
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would never have my chance and to have a
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child is truly the most I think the
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closest we'll ever get to understanding
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how God relates to us you know we love
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our kids we're Amazed by our kids we
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Delight in our kids we relish their
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little accomplishments we Delight in
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their milestones we not only love them
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we often like them we adore them well
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that's how God feels about every human
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being and I'm not making this up there's
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other versions this is the very metaphor
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there are other versions of it Scott why
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don't you come in here by the way you
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know uh uh God is dog spelled backwards
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so dog there you go Savannah it's really
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nice to meet you um hi Scott first off
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congratulations on your success I think
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this is a brave book for someone in your
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position to write because you're just
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subjecting yourself to a lot of scrutiny
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and your vulnerability and and I can see
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why it's a bestseller so acknowledging
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that I I love what you've written I love
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what David Brooks has written about the
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importance of community and how much
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comfort religion gives people and
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there's definitely a a hole in American
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society where people are having trouble
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Bing each other and the agency of
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something bigger than them and religion
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plays an incredibly important role and
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as a devout atheist I also want to
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acknowledge that I think we would
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probably benefit from an upsurge in
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religious institutions in America having
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said that I Warrior what would you do to
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provide Comfort to people when you say
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mostly what God does what I see mostly
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God being used for quite frankly right
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now is often times good people do good
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things bad people do bad things when
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good people do horrendous things usually
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God is at the center or some form of
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their vision of God and what I see in
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America is the religion and legislation
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that the line is being blurred and being
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used for quite frankly incredible
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misogyny incredible discrimination so
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what would you do to provide Comfort to
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people that recognize the importance
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that church plays but see increasingly
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that that God is being if you will
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weaponized well I understand those those
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sentiments you know I live in the real
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world too and you know I write a lot
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about doubt in the book and the doubt
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isn't does God
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exist the doubt The Crucible of of Doubt
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for any deeply thinking faithful person
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is where is God you know does why would
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why would a good God allow unmerited
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suffering yeah you for what you're
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talking about you say this in one
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chapter you write waking each morning to
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an overnight news summary which often
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has a headline after headline of bad
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news you wrote it feels like uh it feels
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like uh taking 20 punches to the gut in
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Rapid succession
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yeah and I mean I I hear and understand
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exactly what Scott is laying out I mean
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again I live in this world too I I would
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only say that what you're describing has
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more to do with humans than it does to
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do with God and I understand but I I I
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would say try to get back to the source
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material Go Back to Basics you know look
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for God for yourself look Within I mean
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looking out in the world whether I mean
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frankly Any Human Institution and every
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human even our most treasured and most
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devout or most faithful or most moral
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humans we have they're still human and
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this is in my faith view this is not the
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world that God intended we live in a
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broken world and um there's just no
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getting around that and P.S I don't have
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the answers to that in this little
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yellow book I don't the only thing I say
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is that I believe that God yearns to
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engage with us even on our doubts even
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with our doubts in fact I think that's I
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think that's part of faith I think doubt
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is kind of Faith being worked out um
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it's not an exception to Faith it's it's
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an aspect of Faith indifference and
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apathy now that might get you a little
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more to opposite of Faith so I
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understand all those doubts and I don't
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try to run from them I try to explain
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how I have dealt with them either
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personally with my own set or the world
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that I see that breaks my heart every
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single day what what what do you say to
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he just said he's a devout atheist right
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Scotch just said I happen to be more of
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an agnostic because I don't know and I
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you're closeted atheist but anyway no
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I'm not no I'm not because I've been
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literally walking by Churches recently
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and thinking I'd like to go in agre I
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don't know why I don't know I don't and
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I don't go in by the way um May sorry I
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don't mean to answer for you go ahead
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okay I don't I don't know I don't no no
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it's something else I don't know what it
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is it's not I don't want to see more
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people Scott that's something I want to
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do the opposite of um but what um it's
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true sanah um what who are you writing
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for are you writing to reach those
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people or what's what were what's the
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goal here for you I mean the book is not
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for any particular person I really mean
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that it is not in any way prati if it's
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persuasive that's not what it's intended
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to do it's it's a description of a
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relationship with God and I hope that
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it's ultimately appealing because I
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think God is quite compelling so I I
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write about um there's a chapter called
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the fragrance of the Gospel right which
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is a line from scripture but I say you
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know the idea is it's a fragrance right
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it's not a stench it's not an odor it's
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not the person next to you wearing too
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much perfume it's it's a fragrance I I
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hope that a life that is lived with
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recognition that God loves every human
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heart yourself and every human you see
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on the street I hope that life carries a
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fragrance that is appealing and
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compelling but no I'm not trying to
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write to any particular person I'm
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trying to write to every particular
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person who cares to pick up this book
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and in a lot of ways I'm writing to
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myself because this encouragement is
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something I need all the time I mean I
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still need to be reminded that God loves
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me that even more radically that God
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could like me yeah I mean this is if you
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could let that in if you could re let it
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in even for a moment it's pretty
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transformative but it's not the kind of
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thing that you learn once and then it's
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stands for all time it's like when you
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get married you don't say I love you
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sweetie and then in 30 years you're like
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remember I told you on her wedding day
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no you are in it every single day and
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you have to continue to seek that
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connection and that's how I think about
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faith as well Scott by the way I love
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you Scott sorry go I love you too Cara
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thank you for saying that uh uh so I'm
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asking this question should I leave no
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no okay so I'm asking this question
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generally for an answer not as a comment
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um what advice I know you have kids I
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have 13 and 16y old boys and I genuinely
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struggle with the role that I should
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play in in determining what the role
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religion should play in their life as
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someone who believes at some point I'll
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look into their eyes and I believe our
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relationship will come to an end when I
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die I also recognize as someone who
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spent a lot of time in temples and
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churches that there is something
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wonderful for kids about being involved
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uh in a religious institution but I
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struggle with how to incorporate it in a
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thoughtful
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way um anyways what advice would you
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have for someone who you know buys into
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the institutions not necessarily the
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lineage and see some of some of the
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danger and quite frankly if I woke up
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one day and my kid was super religious I
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got to be honest with you Savannah would
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be
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heartbroken and but at the same time I
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realize the value it can play in their
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lives and I want to incorporate it in a
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thoughtful way what advice would you
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have uh uh for for parents that feel the
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same way yeah well I mean I'm definitely
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with with you asked me but I definitely
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do not present myself who as somebody
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who could give any kind of advice on
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parenting as I'm just struggling along
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blindly myself but I'll tell you what I
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do I'm my husband is Jewish we have an
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Interfaith household what I have decided
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and this is a little different because I
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do carry a deep Faith within me so what
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I try to do is share that with my kids
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and yes to a certain extent you know
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you're talking about religious
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institutions I have I I I go to church
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I've always belonged to a religious
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institution but to me I don't let the
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religious institutions um I don't like
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them I don't let them ruin God for me
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you know I try to know God for myself
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know Jesus for himself through
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scriptures through prayer through
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personal interaction and of our
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religious institutions which are
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imperfect as all humans are I I try to
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take with Grace the best that they have
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to offer and and and then have Grace
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with their failings but what I try to do
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is teach my kids about the God that I
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know and not just in a way of dragging
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them to church although I do I my sister
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says in our growing up she said God was
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the sixth member of our family and what
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she meant by that was we were always
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kind of in conversation with god or
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about God you know and when my kids have
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a problem I might introduce God into the
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topic now this is easier for me because
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I believe in God and you don't but I
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think that's how I try to do it and if
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you you know don't have those feelings
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you feel strongly that's different but
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if somebody was wondering they might
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just say especially with a 13 and
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16-year-old who's I have no doubt your
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boys are quite smart as you are you know
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it's okay if you want to investigate
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that a little bit and you have to
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understand that faith is is it's
00:15:02
intellectual but it's also spiritual and
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emotional we're on multi-dimensional
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Realms here okay so you know you can't
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nobody can sit here and prove it to you
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and give you a set of facts even if they
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gave you in controvertible facts that
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wouldn't be enough faith is in the end a
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leap and I if I had older kids I think
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that's what I'd say to them my little
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kids you know these These are they're
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seven and nine now as they start to ask
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questions
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my view is I've told them what I know
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they will choose for themselves their
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faith or no faith at all and that that
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will be their choice I only know my
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responsibility is to expose them how do
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you incorporate your husband being
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Jewish is he how do you incorporate
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because there's a lot of well we like
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this there's like my my wife is Jewish
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but we we haven't done anything at all
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and I wouldn't bring them to church
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although with my older kids what my
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ex-wife did was um she took them to all
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different churches all the time like she
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would go to a temple she would go to a
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seek Temple she would go to a bapt she
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brought them to a lot un Unitarian was
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where she know tended to zero out on but
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um she took them to a lot of places
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which I thought was kind of a great idea
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I couldn't I didn't I think I I mean
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look I my view is sort of give God some
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access to their hearts and let him do
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the rest I mean why do we act like we're
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going to what we say is somehow going to
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be what they end up believing anyway so
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I feel a respon responsibility because I
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do feel my faith so strongly that I want
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to share with them what I know my my
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husband he comes from the Jewish
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tradition and he shares his traditions
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and we let those all live alongside each
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other now look I we don't have to get
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into chapter and verse why at some point
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although there's so much in common
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between our faiths why at some point
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there may be questions in a conflict and
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when that day comes I hope that we can
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answer it with as much love
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understanding Grace and humility as
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possible
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for all we know and all we don't know
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but you know there's a my kids used to
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go they don't go to this school anymore
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but it wasn't a religious Church a
00:17:07
religious school but it had religious it
00:17:08
was an old religious schools but 100
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years later in New York City it didn't
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but they still had Chapel every week and
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what I loved about it was you know the
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chapel had nothing religious in it but
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it was space and time for something
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other than the Here and Now for
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something other than what right in front
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of you so maybe it's a long-winded way
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of getting to something of an answer SC
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which is to however you do it to leave a
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little space and if God chooses to enter
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that space well won't you be lucky even
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though Scott you'll be in
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despair why should anything change why
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should anything change well you know
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what Scott all I my big View and I write
00:17:45
about this in the book is God speaks our
00:17:47
language like you open your heart and
00:17:49
you give a little access point then let
00:17:52
God do the rest he's God you're not not
00:17:54
or not that we not if you're you but you
00:17:57
may be surprised you were sitting here
00:17:59
thinking the reason I am interested I I
00:18:02
was grew up Catholic and I they hated
00:18:04
gay people they did they did they did
00:18:06
and that was what re made me reject it
00:18:08
so strongly one of the and I thought
00:18:10
they were horrible in so many ways the
00:18:11
people that ran the church including
00:18:14
around uh sexual assault and stuff um
00:18:17
but one of the things that I think I'm
00:18:18
attracted to is the quiet it's so quiet
00:18:20
in there and I think you're right being
00:18:21
quiet is a very difficult thing these
00:18:23
days um I'm going to ask you one more
00:18:25
question Scott may have one more but I
00:18:26
do have to ask you about these AI
00:18:28
generated companion and workbooks being
00:18:29
sold to a company your book mine are I
00:18:31
there's full books of Caris Wier with
00:18:33
really creepy looking uh Caris swier
00:18:36
faces on them you you you look I don't
00:18:39
look hot stop it stop it and this now
00:18:43
Savannah we have a nice guest in our
00:18:44
thing we have a nice lady with us stop
00:18:46
it um when do you what did you think
00:18:48
when you you you brought them up to me
00:18:50
what what did you think when you first
00:18:52
saw them pop up and these are workbooks
00:18:54
workbooks that they sell them to ACC
00:18:56
company your book and you had nothing to
00:18:57
do with them and you could do a workbook
00:18:59
for example well yes I mean and here's
00:19:03
the thing my mother's the one who told
00:19:04
me about it she said oh honey I'm I
00:19:06
bought your workbook I'm like what
00:19:08
workbook right and then she's told me to
00:19:10
look it up and then I saw it and you
00:19:12
know what is horrifying about it is well
00:19:14
I mean first of all who knows what the
00:19:15
heck it says with our names on it but
00:19:18
also people spend their real money it's
00:19:19
not like it's $1 it was
00:19:21
$4.99 actually at one of my book events
00:19:24
this nice lady brought it to me she said
00:19:26
I just wanted you to know there are
00:19:27
these fake workbook
00:19:29
and I said oh H I'm I'm all over it I
00:19:31
know and I of course immediately said it
00:19:34
to the publisher but there's very little
00:19:35
they can do if the I don't understand it
00:19:38
you know totally from a legal
00:19:40
perspective if there's a true likeness
00:19:41
to your book like there were a few that
00:19:43
came on that were light yellow like mine
00:19:46
they could get those taken down but the
00:19:47
others they don't and it's just really
00:19:49
unfortunate because people are spending
00:19:51
their their money on it and also for
00:19:54
authors and even Publishers you know
00:19:56
that's that's a book not sold right
00:19:59
somebody I I hope you know I complained
00:20:01
to the CEO of Amazon to your behalf so
00:20:03
you know I just was it was like crazy
00:20:05
but they can't do anything Scott final
00:20:07
question so when you were when you and
00:20:09
your boyfriend now husband were thinking
00:20:12
about building a life
00:20:14
together and you I I don't know if you
00:20:16
had the conversation around religion but
00:20:18
it's it's unlikely unless people meet at
00:20:20
church or Temple that they exact views
00:20:23
on this topic calibrate perfectly and
00:20:26
did you have conversations around this
00:20:27
did you find you needed to accommodate
00:20:29
did one person grow into it more than
00:20:31
the other was it less important to one
00:20:32
person than the other so it it shape
00:20:35
more around who was important to talk
00:20:37
about how you decided that religion
00:20:40
should should morph or not such that you
00:20:42
could shape a life together we talked
00:20:45
about it a lot and you know of course I
00:20:46
came up in a tradition where you weren't
00:20:48
supposed to marry outside the faith and
00:20:50
I think his tradition probably was the
00:20:52
same as well so right there we're
00:20:54
already you know Heretics in some sense
00:20:56
but we talked about it a ton and and um
00:20:59
we actually this isn't the only reason
00:21:01
that we faed around and dated for five
00:21:03
long years before getting married but it
00:21:05
is one of the topics that came up how
00:21:07
can we make this work and still have
00:21:09
integrity with both of our faiths and
00:21:11
that's something that we're trying to do
00:21:13
and not water down either one and you
00:21:16
know I I kind of indicated this when
00:21:18
they're little it's easier to do that
00:21:20
when they're older I I anticipate
00:21:23
because I believe my kids I hope I'm
00:21:25
raising smart thinking kids who aren't
00:21:27
afraid to ask hard questions you know I
00:21:30
anticipate that that will come up and
00:21:31
that we will deal with it as it does but
00:21:35
what I knew I couldn't do was in any way
00:21:38
water down or walk away from my faith
00:21:41
and my husband has known this about me
00:21:44
since our very first date and in no way
00:21:47
would ever ask me to I have to give him
00:21:49
a ton of credit too I mean it for me to
00:21:51
not only be this person but then to be
00:21:54
in this strange position where now I'm
00:21:56
writing a book about faith which is so
00:21:58
out there you know he never once was
00:22:00
like well that's great sweetie but do
00:22:02
you need to he he completely and totally
00:22:06
supported me which I am so grateful for
00:22:09
and and the biggest thing I've learned
00:22:11
is whether you have a lot of faith or a
00:22:13
lot of Doubt or something altogether
00:22:17
different I do think to your point Scott
00:22:19
people long for connection and they want
00:22:22
to have conversations that are deep and
00:22:24
meaningful and I've had more
00:22:25
conversations even with friends I've had
00:22:27
forever since writing this book I mean
00:22:30
even Cara and I who are text besties and
00:22:32
we've talked about a lot of things and
00:22:33
when I said oh I'm writing this book
00:22:36
that opened up a conversation or a lane
00:22:37
of conversation we hadn't had before and
00:22:41
I loved that she was so open and
00:22:44
interested and said like oh I love
00:22:45
talking to people about faith it doesn't
00:22:47
mean I agree with your faith it means
00:22:49
isn't it interesting to have these
00:22:51
conversations it is isn't this more
00:22:52
valuable to spend time talking about
00:22:54
what you believe what you don't believe
00:22:57
let's connect as humans this is the
00:22:59
stuff that actually matters and I'm
00:23:01
hoping that the book at least creates
00:23:04
that opportunity this book is really
00:23:06
interesting I've really enjoyed uh
00:23:08
reading it um and I think it's good
00:23:10
Scott does talk about Community a lot
00:23:11
and it's important to this is what it's
00:23:13
about faith and Community which is
00:23:15
doesn't necessarily have to have any
00:23:16
religion at all um the book is mostly
00:23:19
what God does Reflections on seeking and
00:23:21
finding his love Everywhere by Savannah
00:23:24
Guthrie and her AI friends anyway thank
00:23:28
you so much thank you I so enjoyed it
00:23:31
thanks Scott thanks
00:23:36
Cara
