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How Elon's OpenAI Lawsuit Backfired Spectacularly | Pivot

May 19, 2026 / 01:23:17

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We've made a lot of predictions. We get

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some wrong. This was a [ __ ] layup.

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>> It was.

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>> Hi everyone. This is Pivot from New York

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Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast

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Network. I'm Cara Swisser

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>> and I'm Scott Galloway.

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>> Well, let's get straight to the breaking

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news of the day. Hey, Elon Musk just

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lost his high stakes lawsuit against Sam

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Alman and OpenAI, which alleged OpenAI

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had violated a promise to remain a

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nonprofit after deliberating less than

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two hours uh which means they didn't get

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the free lunch. A federal uh jury ruled

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unanimously 9 to zero that Altman and

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Open Eye did not betray their nonprofit

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founding missions. There was a statute

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of limitations, technicality, but I

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think they're basically saying Elon, you

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giant adult toddler, too bad. Um, Scott,

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we've been saying this all along that

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this would happen. Check it out. I think

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this jury can't possibly side with him.

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I mean, ultimately, I don't think they

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proved anything. And it's a sort of he

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said, he said kind of thing. And Elon's

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the most lo of the pair, right? By far

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by the country mile. So, I think Elon's

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made a spectacle of himself. If he wins,

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it would be something else. Like, I'll

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tell you that. Um, but I can't imagine

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the jury thinks this guy got the got a

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short end of the stick or that he's

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stupid and didn't know what was

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happening to him. The judge backed the

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verdict and dismissed all claims,

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including one against Microsoft. Both

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men are racing towards massive IPOs with

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OpenAI valued at over $850 billion. And

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SpaceX expected to go public very soon

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after merging with Musk's XAI, which has

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been pretty much of a failure in the AI

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department, possibly one of the reasons

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for this lawsuit. Uh thoughts? Look, as

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predicted, I thought this was an easy

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one. And I thought this was a messiah

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complex and

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sellers regret cosplaying a legal

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argument. The only thing that came out

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of this entire case was that Musk was

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[ __ ] a board member in that she nor

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he disclosed it after he had left.

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>> Well, if if they did it that way, let's

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be we don't know how that happened.

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There was something.

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>> Okay.

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>> All right.

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>> Okay.

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>> Alleged. You're saying she she would it

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was immaculate immaculate conception

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>> in there was let's not get into it but

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they're romantically involved now. Okay,

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got it.

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>> This was a lawfare.

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Um, and this was again I I am turning so

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I think we now need alternative minimum

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taxes of 60 or 70%

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on anything over a billion dollars for

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an individual because these individuals

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are under the impression that they are

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not subject to the standards of of

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Western society, decency or any or the

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law. The fact that they would even he

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would even bring this case

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>> nonsense

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>> uh

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>> waste of time

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>> is okay you don't have a legal argument

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but I'm Elon Musk and

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nonprofits are allowed to convert to

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forprofits they do it all the time he

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tried to convince them to become a

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for-profit that he would control and

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when they said no he left and started

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his own for-profit AI company and then

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six years later decided to give up all

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ownership and governance of that now

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that it was worth $850 billion. he

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wanted some of that or he wanted to at

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least slow it down for his failing

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>> right

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>> uh LLM th this was

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this was we've made a lot of predictions

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we get some wrong this was this was a

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[ __ ] layup

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>> it was I have to say one of the things

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that people look look first of all it's

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a waste of our legal our legal time it's

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a waste of those nine jurors time it was

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ridiculous how let me tell you all of

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them came off badly right Sam Alman

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doesn't look

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Siobhan Zillis, the alleged person,

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girlfriend thing. Um, no, she is a

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girlfriend, I guess. I don't know. I

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don't care. Um, but Greg Brockman, the

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only person who came off like an adult

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is Sacha Nadella, who's the CEO of

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Microsoft, right? He looks like he did

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the right thing. He handled it well. All

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his texts are fine. The rest of them

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look like [ __ ] babies and unhappy and

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just, why are they in charge of our

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fate? Why are they why are they so

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unhappy and so rich?

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um all kinds of like weird dramas

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between them, personal dramas, and it's

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a waste of our legal systems time. It's

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just rid the judge seemed perplexed as

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to what it was doing there. Um and

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again, it does come down to Elon Musk

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and sour grapes. He has the sourest

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grapes on the planet, even though he's

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about to become the richest person on

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the planet, right? In the history of the

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planet. The other thing is that both of

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them are sucking wind while Gemini and

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Anthropic are lapping them, right? So

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all this waste of time and energy over

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companies that are pro have problematic

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real problems, right? In their own in

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their own thing and it's just the whole

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thing is just I just and I I think the

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fault lies of course with Elon Musk who

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just can't like lose. He's he's a sore

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he's a sore winner is what he is. I

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don't know what else. and he's a bad

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loser essentially. And you know, would

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do you think it'll affect their IPOs or

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positions in the overall AI race?

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Because I don't see anyone coming off

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well except for uh Gemini and Anthropic

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in this deal essentially.

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>> Well, Gemini and Anthropic win by just

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virtue of the fact that this is a big

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distraction for a non-competitor XAI and

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a real competitor, OpenAI.

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The only nuance I would add to your

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comments is one,

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there's a small fraction of people, us

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included, very small, that we're

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tracking the nuance and the details of

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the case. Generally speaking, the

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majority of people will will read this

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today and it it it distills down to a

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very basic thing. Musk lost and Alman

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won. So I actually think Alman comes out

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of this as a winner.

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>> That's fair. That's fair

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>> because the majority of us didn't listen

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to the testimony and just how petty and

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childish and weird these people are. Uh

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so it's like they'll they'll remember

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one thing about this. Oh, Musk lost and

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Alman won.

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>> You're correct.

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>> And I don't I don't I think the

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prediction markets I don't know what

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they were at one point it had Musk at

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50%. Which was a great bet

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>> but the thing I looked at was the

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secondary market and I didn't see shares

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in Open AI decline in value. So I think

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this I think this gives new not new wind

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but existing wind in the sales of the

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open AI uh IPO and also I don't think it

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to be fair I don't think it hurts M's

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IPO because I think people are so

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intoxicated for real for many good

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reasons by the IPO of SpaceX. This was

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and the the the most interesting thing I

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saw in the CNN article that we just

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pulled up was the judge almost appears

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to be wallpapering over why they didn't

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dismiss it in the first place. Why did

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they even let this get to trial? Because

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the judge was saying that she, you know,

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one of the reasons I was thinking of

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dismissing,

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you're going to have legal scholars look

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at this and go, "How the [ __ ] did this

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ever go to trial?" because of a

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technicality because of a statute of

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limitations. Correct.

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>> Was that it? Yeah. Well, statute of

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limitations and also there is a certain

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there is a certain benchmark for what

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actually proceeds to a jury trial.

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>> Yeah. A nuisance lawsuit. Yeah.

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>> Yeah. So I look I think this will go

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down um as as I don't want to call it a

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nothing burger but something that was

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distracting for them that people the TMZ

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of the tech community loves reading the

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testimony and all that but at the end of

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the day this this is a this is a speed

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bump not even a speed bump a bump for

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both firms but the the distillation is

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the following our court system still

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works Musk lost Altman won but bigger

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picture neither of their IPOs is

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threatened by this.

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>> Yeah. Who the [ __ ] cares is what I

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thought. The whole thing was such a like

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I do think I agree with you about the

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nuance. I think you're absolutely right.

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No one will remember that. But boy did I

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get an insight to what a bunch of

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[ __ ] babies these people are. Really

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truly out of I thought that and now I'm

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like unconfirmed

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and conf like a lot of the stuff like

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that I had heard about Zillis not

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telling the board about uh the pregnancy

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the twins and stuff. I I heard that and

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I was like that can't be. And then it

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was like like like a lot of and Greg

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Brockman's journal and I know that's

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sort of like we're interested in it or I

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am at least but it does like really does

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I was like I thought they were babies

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and indeed in court they were babies.

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>> Can I tell you about my pregnancy story

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conflict?

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>> Do you want to bring this back?

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>> My baby.

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>> You want to bring you know stranger

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things have happened.

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>> Okay. So, uh, you got to tell me you

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want the story first. So,

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>> I want the story. Go ahead. Really

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briefly, though. Okay.

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>> That's that's Scott briefly is an

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oxymoron. Um, so I'm a professor. I'm

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just getting traction at Stern. It's

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like 200 when was it? I should know

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this. 2007.

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Finally, I'm finally getting traction as

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a professor. And and my dean calls me

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and says, "I need you to come up right

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away." And when the dean calls me and

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says, "Come up right away." right away.

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It's either very good or very bad news.

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So, I roll up there and he goes, he

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goes, "Okay, so there's a rumor and he

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goes, there's a second year who looks

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like she's about to give birth." And I

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mean, she's clearly very, very pregnant,

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a second year student. Oh, no.

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>> And there's a rumor that you're the

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father.

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>> What?

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>> Yeah. True story. He goes, "There's a

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rumor that you're the father." And I go,

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"Well, I've got good news and bad news."

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And he literally put his head in his

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hands and went, "Oh, [ __ ] No.

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And I said, "The bad news is I am the

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father." And I said, "The good news is

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we've been having sex for several

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years." We disclosed in her application

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that we were living together and in a

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relationship together.

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>> Thank you.

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>> But we didn't pivot.

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>> We didn't tell anyone, especially

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students, and I didn't tell any of my

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colleagues. I just disclosed it when she

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was applying to the school. And uh but

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yeah, that was that was I was I had

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knocked up I had knocked up a student

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who was who was walking around.

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>> Oh no. Oh god. Okay. All right. On that

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note, I had a lovely pregnancy and it

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was all in a

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>> open AI.

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>> Open AI

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>> and then I went and then I went on to do

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the IPO of Red Envelope and a market cap

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of 108 million.

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>> Oh god, that ended badly. Okay, it did

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end.

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>> By the way, the legal stuff isn't over.

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Moving on to more open AI legal news.

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The company is reportedly weighing

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possible legal action against Apple over

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how chat GPT has been integrated into

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devices and apps that were just waiting

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for this trial to end. And here we are.

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This deal could open uh that OpenAI

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thought would bring billions of dollars

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in subscriptions. Has not turned out

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that way. Openey believes Apple failed

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to give Chat GBT prominent placement in

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Siri and iOS and didn't significantly

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promote the integration. Apple has its

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own concerns about open AI as they

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should. questions around privacy and the

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company's push into hardware and

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devices. They did hire Johnny Ibata's

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company. Another sign of the fring

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relationship, Apple is planning to let

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users choose between multiple AI models

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the way they do with search, even though

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they favor Google, including Gemini from

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Google and Claude from Anthropic across

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its software later this year. Um maybe

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they'll sell the poll position to one of

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them, but supposedly it was supposed to

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be OpenAI. What do you think about

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OpenAI taking on Apple? I don't know

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what the contract is, but it kind of

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goes to the notion that even one of the

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most powerful companies in AI, it's all

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about placement and distribution.

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>> Absolutely.

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>> Even going as far back as when um I was

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running a strategy firm and we were

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working for Levis's, they initially

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decided they needed to go vertical

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because J Penney would put their own

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um Arizona brand at the front. I mean,

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distribution just has so much power,

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right? And even someone even something

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as powerful as Open AI, if you put them

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at at the bottom, they're not going to

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get as much. But I've I've said for a

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long time, I thought Apple was going to

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continue to be the arbiter and basically

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say, unless you pay us a lot of money,

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we're not putting you at the top,

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especially a company like Open AI. But I

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don't know what the contract I don't

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know if it's an actual I don't know if

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it's an actual formal breach of contract

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>> like the Disney Soros one that you had

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called out as possibly being a nothing

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burger. I I just I wonder, do you really

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want to piss off the premier means of

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distribution

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with the kind of access to cheap capital

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that Open AI has? And Sam Alman's a

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smart man regardless of what you think

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of them. I I don't see I would be trying

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to figure out a way to cut a deal

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similar to what Google did where we're

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going to pay a [ __ ] ton of money and

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we're going to be your default AI. So I

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don't going after them legally. I don't

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I don't

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>> Maybe Apple doesn't want them to be

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default AI. Maybe Apple does have

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concerns. I don't know anything about

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this. Do you know anything about the

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legal veracity of the case? I just

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>> I don't know. I mean, they obviously the

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deal doesn't like these they they struck

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all these very high-profile deals

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whether it was Disney which became a

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nothing burger. It was an experiment and

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didn't really go anywhere. They, you

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know, they did a lot of like ta kind of

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things and this is the biggest one of

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them. Um, and then they turned around

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and did the Johnny IV thing, right,

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which has got to chap Tim Cook's ass

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like on some level, right? Even though

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he's going to be stepping down. And at

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the same time, they would have questions

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about what they want to do. Now, of

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course, Apple is a pay-to-play kind of

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company too by giving Google probably

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Google maps are very good. Theirs were

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very good. There were other players.

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They didn't give search to they gave

00:13:50

search to Google because they paid them

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much. So, they they are they will take

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your money and Google certainly has

00:13:56

issues around all manner of issues. So,

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they didn't they sort of overlook those.

00:14:01

Um, so I don't know. I just I feel like

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they'll be I I think letting people

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choose between the multiple models is

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the best way to go. I don't love this

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place paytoplay kind of stuff cuz it

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doesn't it may give you a good version

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but it doesn't give you necessarily the

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one you want. So it seems to me that

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people should be able to choose their AI

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model since Apple's not going to be

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deploying that themselves. Um you know

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if you want to use Claude you should be

00:14:26

able to use Claude and whoever and may

00:14:28

the best man win kind of thing. But

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that's hard to do because people don't

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really choose, do they? They just

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default use Google Maps or Google

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Search.

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>> Well, you can make being your default if

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you want. I I think they I think they I

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don't think they

00:14:42

>> I think they

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>> they play they play on the the inertia

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of consumers and that is that's right.

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They essentially basically my

00:14:50

understanding is with Google search

00:14:51

being the default on iOS, they make it

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easier for you to use Google search than

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use Bing.

00:14:56

>> Oh, it comes with it. You have to go

00:14:58

deep into the thing to change it like to

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any of them just it's like six it's like

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a lot of steps. I mean this is the same

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across all of big tech. Amazon if you

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want to be in the golden buy box you

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know if you want to be top of search

00:15:10

results you have to pay and the way they

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extract payment is that you have to use

00:15:14

Amazon media group you have to use their

00:15:17

fulfillment and then the algorithm

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slowly but surely puts you towards the

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top or depp prioritizes you and it's

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like it's like having a store on Mars

00:15:24

just because you're on Amazon unless you

00:15:26

figure out a way to do pay for play. I

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I' I've said for a long time, I think

00:15:30

eventually it'll move from these

00:15:32

companies getting paid by Apple to

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Apple, extracting a lot of payments from

00:15:36

them.

00:15:36

>> Right. Right.

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>> What I I think with Open AI though,

00:15:39

they're now

00:15:40

>> Well, Google pays Apple for those

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things, right? They do get paid.

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>> I thought Apple paid Google a billion

00:15:46

dollars to be the engine behind.

00:15:48

>> It's the opposite. It's the opposite.

00:15:50

Oh,

00:15:50

>> okay. So, they already

00:15:52

>> cases. Yes. Yes. They're used to that

00:15:54

model of let's we'll pick the winners

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and then get paid

00:15:59

paid for it.

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>> I thought Apple paid Google a billion

00:16:02

dollars a year for access to a custom

00:16:04

Gemini model.

00:16:04

>> Sounds like they they I'm talking about

00:16:06

search and maps. They they get paid. So

00:16:09

Google pays Apple to be the default

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search, but yes, Apple is paying Google

00:16:13

around a billion dollars for Gemini.

00:16:15

They did this deal with Open AI, right?

00:16:17

To to get make them the favored nation.

00:16:19

At the time they did it. We thought that

00:16:20

was pretty smart of opening had to move

00:16:22

in there on Gemini and at the time

00:16:25

Claude was not that big a player right

00:16:27

so it was sort of a move on Gemini and

00:16:29

so um and here it didn't work out and I

00:16:33

bet Apple has all kinds of problems with

00:16:35

their privacy issues and the sort of

00:16:37

image around Sam everything else you

00:16:40

know what I mean like that's what it

00:16:41

feels like to me it's like it's a

00:16:43

regretful link or something and maybe

00:16:46

they aren't doing what it takes but a

00:16:48

lawsuit is not Great for open AI I

00:16:51

assume correct or not doesn't matter for

00:16:53

Apple. Well, it the fear is among

00:16:56

amongst open AI is this hands Google's

00:16:58

Gemini the keys of the Apple universe

00:17:00

and that's the same keys they've

00:17:02

possessed with search for two decades

00:17:04

right and Apple roots hysteria queries

00:17:08

through its private cloud compute

00:17:10

framework claiming user data is never

00:17:11

stored or used to train Google's models

00:17:14

and Apple evaluated or claims they

00:17:16

evaluated open AI and anthropic before

00:17:18

choosing Google I got to think there's

00:17:20

20 billion reasons why Apple wants to

00:17:22

maintain a good relationship with

00:17:23

Alphabet Also, that could be a court

00:17:25

case in a future Democratic

00:17:26

administration, too, right? Like they're

00:17:28

not they've already been in trouble for

00:17:31

those deals. That's been always been

00:17:32

part of the thing.

00:17:33

>> Well, that $20 billion accounts for

00:17:35

about 20% of Apple's annual services

00:17:37

revenue. So, it's real. I mean, that is

00:17:39

real. That's a that's a very that

00:17:41

strikes me as the the perfect

00:17:43

relationship that [ __ ] consumers.

00:17:46

>> Yes. Exactly. They they will get paid.

00:17:48

Apple will be the get the payee here.

00:17:50

They're not going to pay Google.

00:17:52

>> Oh, no. No. They control the

00:17:53

distribution. They control the

00:17:54

interface. They control custody of the

00:17:56

consumer. And it's the age-old argument

00:17:58

of who's more important, the

00:17:59

distribution or the manufacturer's

00:18:00

brand. And there's there's always an

00:18:03

argument. And that and then the

00:18:04

companies that get really really uh uh

00:18:07

have extraordinary shareholder value,

00:18:09

always either reverse engineer into

00:18:11

creating their own brands and

00:18:12

controlling and taking advantage. They

00:18:14

everyone goes vertical at some point or

00:18:17

they forward integrate and start

00:18:18

opening, you know, original Levi stores.

00:18:20

they start opening their own stores. But

00:18:23

in the case of Apple, they've done a

00:18:24

great job of deciding what they're going

00:18:26

to go vertical on and what they should

00:18:27

just extract a lump of flesh for. And I

00:18:30

would, again, I've said this before, I

00:18:32

think Apple's smart move, and as far as

00:18:34

I can tell, their strategy is to um

00:18:36

decide that around AI, they're going to

00:18:40

be the toll booth and let whoever the

00:18:42

highest bidder is be the default AI.

00:18:44

>> Yeah, it'll be questionable if they, as

00:18:45

we talked about last week about whether

00:18:46

they do this with Siri, right? Because

00:18:49

Siri just sucks. Are they going to make

00:18:50

Siri better or use someone else's? Siri

00:18:54

has never been intuitive. I I spend more

00:18:57

time arguing with Siri than anything

00:18:58

else. What I say

00:19:00

>> I think Oculus and Siri are arguably

00:19:03

arguably two of the worst brands in tech

00:19:05

over the last 10 years. I think they

00:19:07

become total cliches for [ __ ] that

00:19:09

doesn't work or that doesn't live up to

00:19:11

its its potential

00:19:13

>> because a lot of the AI interface is

00:19:15

going to be talking, right? Like, hey,

00:19:17

like like you're on the like you're in

00:19:19

Iron Man.

00:19:21

>> So, who does that?

00:19:22

>> Scarlett Johansson, it'll be her, right?

00:19:24

>> Yeah. Right. But who does who is that

00:19:26

company? Are they going to is Apple

00:19:28

going to default that or is that going

00:19:29

to be their thing? because they they

00:19:31

they I I I wish someone would do like a

00:19:34

really deep dive into what happened with

00:19:35

Siri, why it's so bad, and why it is

00:19:38

under resourced or I don't really I

00:19:41

don't even know, but it seems to me like

00:19:43

that's going to be the real interface is

00:19:45

the voice. But maybe not. I don't know.

00:19:48

>> No, I think you're right. I think what I

00:19:50

I think where it's shaping up and one of

00:19:51

the big

00:19:53

the under appreciated or insights is

00:19:57

that from a sensory perception I think

00:19:59

AI is going to be more about your ear

00:20:01

canal than your cornea or your eyes and

00:20:04

that is truly seamless AI will be a

00:20:06

function and again the Apple will

00:20:09

control the distribution with their

00:20:10

AirPods. What you're saying is what will

00:20:12

the branded voice be or will it be

00:20:14

branded? I guess you'll have to say hey

00:20:16

something to prompt it. Is it part of

00:20:18

who runs it? Who's the back? Anyway, I I

00:20:21

feel like there's a huge opportunity

00:20:22

here for one of these AI companies

00:20:24

because that's what you know as if

00:20:26

anyone who's done a a chatbot like this,

00:20:29

it's really it's the it's the way to

00:20:31

communicate. It's much faster. You don't

00:20:33

have to type things in. It's much

00:20:34

better. Anyway, speaking of we may not

00:20:36

get there because as these companies

00:20:38

fight, Americans are pushing back on

00:20:39

data centers powering all of it. Uh all

00:20:42

especially the AI. According to new

00:20:44

Gallup polling, seven in 10 Americans

00:20:46

oppose constructing data centers in

00:20:48

their local area. That's well no Trump

00:20:51

just had new polling. It's he's down

00:20:53

even further. But they don't like Trump.

00:20:55

They don't like data centers. The

00:20:56

opposition cuts across every major

00:20:58

demographic and political group.

00:21:00

Although Democrats are significantly

00:21:01

more likely than Republicans to strongly

00:21:03

oppose these data centers, but

00:21:04

Republicans don't like them either. Like

00:21:06

let's be clear, it's pretty interesting

00:21:08

that it's it's something that's quite

00:21:10

bipartisan. Um, you know, a lot of

00:21:13

people think this is going to be the

00:21:14

biggest. I do too when you hear from

00:21:16

people, especially as Elon like runs

00:21:18

rough shot over the Tennessee town with

00:21:21

his methane engines or whatever. Um,

00:21:24

with these Colossus, it just creates

00:21:27

this feeling of of I don't know what it

00:21:30

is. It's like these rich [ __ ] are

00:21:32

[ __ ] with our environment now, right?

00:21:34

And not to our benefit essentially. But

00:21:37

your thoughts on this? I think it's the

00:21:39

same reason that all these commencement

00:21:41

speakers got booed uh when they

00:21:43

mentioned AI.

00:21:44

>> That was I mean first off no one is

00:21:48

using AI more than college students and

00:21:52

there's also some evidence that it's not

00:21:54

the demand on the electricity or the

00:21:56

environmental concerns that I mean some

00:21:59

people will argue quite frankly that has

00:22:01

been exaggerated. I would like to see

00:22:04

the scientific evidence on that but

00:22:06

there's just no getting around it. But

00:22:07

what this represents is the following.

00:22:09

Whether you're booing Eric Schmidt or or

00:22:12

rallying against a data center,

00:22:15

Americans see their prices going up and

00:22:18

they're not participating in the wealth

00:22:21

creation of AI and it's just a proxy for

00:22:24

income inequality that okay, I hear

00:22:26

about,

00:22:28

you know, Anthropic is worth a trillion

00:22:30

dollars. San Francisco real estate

00:22:32

prices are booming, jet sales are

00:22:34

booming. There are 28-year-olds who are

00:22:37

lucky enough to get a job in coding at

00:22:40

OpenAI who are selling 710 $15 million

00:22:43

in stock and I can't afford detergent. I

00:22:47

I can't I'm worried about food costs.

00:22:50

And so when I hear a data center is

00:22:52

going up 40 miles from me in Utah, I

00:22:55

show up to the protest. whether or not I

00:22:57

see direct evidence of it hurting me or

00:22:59

not, this is a way of saying

00:23:01

AI has become indicative of income

00:23:04

inequality

00:23:06

and and so when anyone anyone shows up

00:23:09

at a commencement speech and starts

00:23:11

lecturing them on AI or they hear about

00:23:13

a data center, I think this is

00:23:15

essentially a vessel of people just uh

00:23:18

filling it and there I don't want to I

00:23:19

don't want to diminish their concerns. I

00:23:21

think there are some real questions that

00:23:22

need to be answered around these d these

00:23:24

data centers. But I feel mostly this is

00:23:28

a vessel for people's rage around it

00:23:30

seems like everyone is doing well except

00:23:33

for me and that America's giant bet on

00:23:36

AI is paying off for a small group of

00:23:38

people and I'm not part of that group.

00:23:40

>> Why why not the companies themselves and

00:23:42

why these because I guess data centers

00:23:44

are physical, right? They're here,

00:23:46

they're there, they see

00:23:46

>> gives you somewhere to go protest.

00:23:48

>> It's also dystopian, right? They're feel

00:23:50

dystopian. They feel like they're

00:23:52

probably not going to have a lot of

00:23:53

people running them. It's not going to

00:23:55

provide the jobs. They're going around

00:23:58

local governments to try to like pay off

00:24:00

people to put them in in the way others.

00:24:03

There are worries about the energy costs

00:24:06

that'll go up in these areas. There's

00:24:08

like some real things. And then there's

00:24:10

the pollution aspect. And I think Elon's

00:24:12

as usual been like the the poster child

00:24:15

for abuse of poor people, right? These

00:24:17

are usually in poor areas. Also, I think

00:24:19

it's just even beyond the worries about

00:24:21

things. It's more of a a creeping worry

00:24:25

about what tech is. Again, the more

00:24:28

villainous they they we don't assume the

00:24:30

best of these people ever, nor should

00:24:33

we. That kind of thing.

00:24:34

>> Well, the one being planned in Utah

00:24:35

that's sort of been the lightning rod or

00:24:37

kind of embodies this one. They have the

00:24:39

wrong spokesperson. Kevin Olri is seen

00:24:41

as someone who's not that empathetic.

00:24:43

>> Oh god. an old white guy who just

00:24:45

doesn't he does not appeal to this this

00:24:48

cohort. It's going to be two and a half

00:24:51

times the envisioned data center is

00:24:53

going to be two and a half times the

00:24:54

size of Manhattan.

00:24:56

Um they have not figured out a way to

00:24:58

communicate the economic benefits and

00:25:00

you're right this notion that you could

00:25:02

turn the lights off on these things

00:25:03

during the day because there's so few

00:25:05

people working there. The bigger threat

00:25:07

in my view and of course we're not

00:25:09

talking about this but if you look at

00:25:11

history when we have spent more than 3%

00:25:13

of GDP on any infrastructure buildout

00:25:16

whether it's the railroads where I think

00:25:17

we got up to 10% we did two big

00:25:19

buildouts whether it's the

00:25:21

electrification and the highways

00:25:23

remember the telco infrastructure

00:25:24

buildout of the late '9s

00:25:26

>> sure

00:25:27

>> whenever we do that and go over above 3%

00:25:29

in 3 years there's a crash because and

00:25:32

what might make this crash especially

00:25:33

severe is that railroads need upgrading

00:25:37

every 50 years, telco every 20 years, a

00:25:40

data center is basically obsolete in

00:25:41

four or five years.

00:25:42

>> Yeah.

00:25:43

>> Yeah.

00:25:43

>> So I think there I think obviously you

00:25:46

need to look at the environmental

00:25:47

concerns, you need to look at energy

00:25:49

costs, but I would imagine there's so

00:25:51

much money on the line here that these

00:25:52

companies and these city councils would

00:25:55

be able to come to some sort of

00:25:56

accommodation around how do we ensure

00:25:58

the local populace does not see its

00:26:00

electricity costs just go through the

00:26:02

roof.

00:26:03

One would imagine and I know the Trump

00:26:04

administration has been trying to do. I

00:26:06

think the hiring of Dena Powell was the

00:26:08

reason for that is she's very as

00:26:11

president of Meta. I think that's

00:26:12

probably going to be a lot of her jobs

00:26:13

these data centers worldwide. By the

00:26:15

way, it's also in the Middle East. It's

00:26:16

also because they want to have big data

00:26:18

centers there and they have much more

00:26:20

control over their populace. Um but I do

00:26:22

think it's sort of the last play of

00:26:24

these governments not to put up with

00:26:27

this. I you know it's a really

00:26:28

interesting dynamic of people who are

00:26:31

sort of years ago uh one of the Joe

00:26:34

Kennedy Jr. I think I've said this came

00:26:36

I had I went to his office and he was

00:26:38

talking about Amazon putting in a

00:26:39

warehouse into his district and he goes

00:26:42

well what this is probably good for

00:26:43

people. I said oh no it's it's not good

00:26:45

it's not going to be good for people.

00:26:47

They're here to help themselves. I think

00:26:49

people at their very core understand as

00:26:51

you were saying that this is not for

00:26:53

them. This is for others to to benefit

00:26:56

and it's not to help them in any way. So

00:26:59

why should we give up environmental

00:27:02

stuff or more energy prices more than

00:27:04

environmental? Anyway,

00:27:05

>> again, I think I think the the the curb

00:27:10

or the retail story or the cover story

00:27:12

is we're worried about environmental and

00:27:14

demands on the grid. I think what's

00:27:16

really going on here is this is just

00:27:18

rage at income inequality and

00:27:21

>> big tech and the data center is the

00:27:23

manifestation

00:27:24

>> and can see it

00:27:25

>> that we can see it and protest against

00:27:27

it. I I I think this is I think we're

00:27:30

whenever we get to these levels of

00:27:31

income inequality we have war, famine or

00:27:33

revolution. I would argue we have all

00:27:35

three of those but revolution always

00:27:36

takes on a different complexion. I think

00:27:38

what we have now is a series of small

00:27:40

revolutions and they're going after

00:27:43

people they generally speaking big tech,

00:27:46

old people, white people, rich people.

00:27:51

>> Okay.

00:27:52

Tell me tell me you're involved in a

00:27:54

data center without telling me you're

00:27:55

involved in

00:27:56

>> I know Kevin earlier shows up with his

00:27:57

multi-million dollar.

00:27:58

>> He's literally the worst spokesperson in

00:28:00

the world for this show.

00:28:01

>> Did you see that outfit he was wearing?

00:28:03

I was like, "Oh my god, you literally

00:28:05

look like the guy, you know, the

00:28:06

Monopoly man. That's what he looks like,

00:28:08

the Monopoly man." Like, it just is not

00:28:11

I I I'm not a fan of of Mr.

00:28:13

>> Yeah. It's only a matter of days before

00:28:15

you see AOC and Bernie Sanders at these

00:28:17

sites whipping people up into a friend.

00:28:19

It'll be like

00:28:20

>> It'll be like the modern day equivalent

00:28:21

when Bob Barker used to go to animal

00:28:23

shelters and just go crazy and

00:28:25

>> Yeah. Yeah.

00:28:26

>> Yeah. We'll see where it goes. Now,

00:28:28

speaking of this, which I think is

00:28:30

getting people furious, too, and I do

00:28:31

think this is the new financial

00:28:33

disclosures show Trump or his investment

00:28:35

advisors made more than 3,700 stock

00:28:37

trades in the first quarter of 2026

00:28:39

involving hundreds of millions of

00:28:40

dollars. The filings show major buys in

00:28:43

companies like Nvidia, Boeing, Intel,

00:28:45

Microsoft, and Oracle, many of which are

00:28:46

directly affected by Trump

00:28:48

administration uh policy decisions, as

00:28:50

the FCC chairperson Anna Gomez calls

00:28:52

billionaire buddy deals. Um, in the case

00:28:55

of Palanteer, Trump made at least seven

00:28:57

purchases of the stock totaling as much

00:28:58

as $530,000 in March, then just happened

00:29:02

to praise the company on Truth Social

00:29:03

after shares suffered their worst week

00:29:05

in a year the following month. I mean,

00:29:08

uh,

00:29:09

what what does it actually take to have

00:29:11

consequences here? And does it all end

00:29:14

up with Trump or is he permanently

00:29:15

changed what Americans will tolerate

00:29:16

from presidents? cuz this is like

00:29:18

there's a great I literally feel like

00:29:20

he's going to start taking milk money

00:29:22

from kids like at some point if you

00:29:24

remember that that expression. I just

00:29:26

this is like is there anywhere he

00:29:28

doesn't cheat and advantage himself in a

00:29:31

way that's like really obvious grift

00:29:35

like obvious and really kind of

00:29:37

upsetting grift.

00:29:38

>> I think you asked exactly the correct

00:29:40

question and that is what can be done

00:29:42

about it. I'm just I'm I want to move

00:29:44

past the Democrats indignation and

00:29:46

constantly bitching about it, but no

00:29:49

real ideas on how to stop it. And so,

00:29:52

let's set the table here to your point

00:29:53

about a level of griff that is just

00:29:55

absolutely unprecedented.

00:29:57

>> He has um executed more than 3,700

00:30:00

trades in the first quarter of 2026.

00:30:03

He's doing 40 trades a day, by the way,

00:30:06

throughout his life. It's not like he's

00:30:07

someone addicted to trading on Robin

00:30:09

Hood. And this is just him, you know,

00:30:11

Trump being Trumpy. He usually didn't

00:30:14

make this many trades in a year. And all

00:30:16

of a sudden, he has access to influence

00:30:18

around these companies and he's decided

00:30:20

to start trading stocks. Trump bought

00:30:22

500,000 to a million dollars in Nvidia

00:30:24

stock one week before his commerce

00:30:26

department approved Nvidia chip sales to

00:30:28

China. He bought somewhere between 1

00:30:30

and5 million the week before they

00:30:31

announced a major deal with Meta. He's

00:30:35

he he bought Dell stock before he

00:30:37

started carving up Tik Tok and giving it

00:30:39

to wait for it Michael Dell. The same

00:30:42

with Oracle. And we have unfortunately

00:30:45

relied on a series of norms that has

00:30:48

resulted in every president since LBJ

00:30:50

using a blind trust. Obama did index

00:30:53

funds and treasury bills. Everyone else

00:30:55

has put their stuff into a blind trust.

00:30:57

He claims his trust is blind dish

00:30:59

because his sons operate it who are the

00:31:01

same people roaming around extracting a

00:31:03

pound of flesh

00:31:04

>> and on the trips to China just here to

00:31:06

support dad. Give me a [ __ ] break.

00:31:09

>> So insider trading or the veil or the

00:31:12

appearance of insider trading has

00:31:13

essentially defined Trump's second term.

00:31:16

Just before liberation day, more than a

00:31:19

dozen government officials made

00:31:20

welltimed stock sales. What a what a

00:31:23

coincidence.

00:31:24

So his his memecoin hit a $27 billion

00:31:28

market cap inauguration week with 58

00:31:30

anonymous wallets making over a billion

00:31:32

dollars dumping it while 800,000 retail

00:31:35

investors lost 2 billion combined. 15

00:31:37

minutes before Trump announced Iran

00:31:39

peace stocks 500 million in oil futures

00:31:41

and one and a half billion in S&P

00:31:43

futures traded hands.

00:31:44

>> Cali trading who knows he's doing that.

00:31:46

All let's be clear. There appears to be

00:31:48

an unprecedented pattern of information

00:31:50

that seems to be only available from

00:31:52

Trump or people surrounding him engaging

00:31:55

in what feels like either market

00:31:56

manipulation or what could classically

00:31:58

be defined as insider trading. And the

00:32:01

damage there is it's not only a conflict

00:32:03

of interest and skewing their decisions,

00:32:06

it creates a lack of trust in the

00:32:08

markets where people think if I don't

00:32:10

have insider information, I shouldn't

00:32:11

buy stocks because the person buying or

00:32:13

selling stock has more information than

00:32:14

me. And you start to see Russia which

00:32:16

has uh a total stock market value of

00:32:19

what our stock market trades about every

00:32:21

seven seconds and you lose access to

00:32:23

cheap capital and your whole economy

00:32:25

starts to decline because companies

00:32:26

can't can't find uh pools of capital

00:32:29

that are formed based on a certain rule

00:32:31

of law and fair play. The question is

00:32:33

okay great now what do we do about it?

00:32:35

And this is where I think the Democrats

00:32:36

again have fallen short and that is

00:32:39

we're long on indignation but we're

00:32:41

short on ideas. And I believe that

00:32:44

someone running for president should say

00:32:46

one of my first acts is I'm going to

00:32:48

work with the following states AGs. I

00:32:50

think there's been insider trading. I

00:32:53

think they'll have to discourage at a

00:32:54

minimum their profits, including

00:32:56

Democrats. Including Democrats who've

00:32:58

engaged in insider trading. I think

00:33:00

there has been wire fraud. I think there

00:33:02

has been effectively what announced

00:33:05

defense concerns or violations of the

00:33:07

imalments clause. I'm going to go after

00:33:09

cabinet members. I'm going to go after

00:33:10

their sons through the letter of the

00:33:12

law. And the key here is I'm going to do

00:33:15

it with the following state ages such

00:33:17

that this legal action is not exempted

00:33:21

or protected by a presidential pardon.

00:33:23

>> Right.

00:33:24

>> But somebody needs to lay this [ __ ] out.

00:33:26

>> Right. Right.

00:33:28

>> I mean,

00:33:28

>> yeah. Well, Rahm Emanuel has. Others

00:33:30

have. Some several have. Let me be

00:33:33

>> Well, Ram Rahm is the only one.

00:33:35

>> He just laid it out in a piece. Ram is

00:33:37

the only one who's actually moved to the

00:33:39

ideas part of if I worry we are going to

00:33:43

be in for a rude awakening if we think

00:33:45

we're going to win just based on

00:33:48

indignance and hating Trump. It's got to

00:33:50

be all right. What are you going to do

00:33:52

about it? And the way you get legitimacy

00:33:54

here is one by saying any Democrat

00:33:57

that's engaged in this [ __ ] which

00:33:59

they have we're going after as well. And

00:34:01

also, don't think a presidential pardon

00:34:04

is going to get you out of this, folks,

00:34:05

because this comes down to incentives.

00:34:06

And until these believe people believe

00:34:08

they could be subject to something on

00:34:10

January 21st of 2028 or excuse me, 2029,

00:34:14

they're going to continue to engage in

00:34:15

it,

00:34:16

>> right? Because these are easily, you

00:34:17

know, these cases are much easier to

00:34:19

win, by the way, in terms

00:34:20

>> digital proof everywhere.

00:34:22

>> That's right. I I I have told you this

00:34:23

but there is a group of people

00:34:25

technologists who are saving crypto

00:34:28

things for later like so later when it

00:34:30

happens like when it when you can do

00:34:32

something like this they'll be

00:34:33

>> they have prints on the trades. Yes,

00:34:35

they have been watching it. They've been

00:34:36

collecting it and they're holding it.

00:34:38

And so there are there's an ability to

00:34:40

track this stuff, folks. And you're

00:34:41

absolutely right. This is this grift has

00:34:44

got to be they're not going to Some of

00:34:46

them are going to Look, Trump probably

00:34:47

is going to walk away. Let's be clear.

00:34:49

Unfortunately,

00:34:51

getting our hands on him is going to be

00:34:53

pointless, angerfilled.

00:34:55

>> Let biology take care of

00:34:56

>> Let it let him He's old. Like he is not

00:34:59

going to be gotten. the sons of these

00:35:01

people and the Lutniks of the world. All

00:35:03

these people, it feels so dirty like

00:35:06

what's happening with Witoff and the all

00:35:09

these kids are like swanning around. I

00:35:11

can tell you they're swanning around

00:35:13

Washington and there is Dumb and Dumber

00:35:16

doesn't even begin to describe them and

00:35:18

they are just they're just they're just

00:35:20

on the make and it's grotesque. It's

00:35:22

just grotesque what's going on here. And

00:35:24

let me tell you the people who are mad

00:35:25

about data centers, they're also taking

00:35:27

advantage you everywhere else. And so

00:35:30

[ __ ] you is their [ __ ] how to [ __ ] you

00:35:32

is their is their operating principle.

00:35:34

And if they can do it in a shortcut way

00:35:36

without working at it, that's their

00:35:38

favorite way. And so I agree with you

00:35:40

there. This is what any any democratic

00:35:43

person wants to come and talk to us, we

00:35:45

will give you a speech for you to do

00:35:47

this. Um anyway, we have to go on a on a

00:35:49

quick break. Uh when we come back, Elon

00:35:51

Musk's plan to make sure no one can fire

00:35:53

him from SpaceX, another monarchy.

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00:37:07

Scott, we're back with more news. SpaceX

00:37:09

is expected to file for its IPO this

00:37:11

week, which will be interesting. I'm

00:37:12

excited for you to read it and tell me

00:37:13

all about it. at a valuation of roughly

00:37:16

$2 trillion, aiming to go public June

00:37:18

12th on NASDAQ. We're also learning

00:37:20

about more about the governance

00:37:22

structure. No surprise, CEO Elon Musk

00:37:24

would control a super majority of class

00:37:26

B stock with 10 times the voting power

00:37:28

of ordinary shares. This is not

00:37:30

uncommon. Google and other companies

00:37:31

have this um meta things like or version

00:37:35

of this. The prospectus says Elon can

00:37:37

only be removed by class B shareholders

00:37:39

and he will control the election and

00:37:41

removal of directors as long as he holds

00:37:43

his stake. Investors are warned this

00:37:45

will limit or preclude your ability to

00:37:47

influence corporate uh matters. It's

00:37:50

already in place right now, by the way,

00:37:52

but come on. Of course, he's going to do

00:37:54

this. And there's another yet another

00:37:56

incentive for Elon. If SpaceX reaches a

00:37:59

$7.5 trillion valuation, and it

00:38:02

establishes a 1 million person colony on

00:38:04

Mars, he could receive up to 200 million

00:38:07

in shares. Let's talk about this board

00:38:10

membership. Uh Scott, because you you've

00:38:12

been an investor, you've been a board

00:38:13

member. Elon defended on ex writing, "I

00:38:15

need to make sure SpaceX stays focused

00:38:17

on making life multilanetarian,

00:38:20

extending consciousness to the stars,

00:38:21

not pandering to someone's [ __ ]

00:38:23

quarterly earnings bonus." In other

00:38:24

words, he doesn't want to have a public

00:38:26

company, but he wants the benefits of a

00:38:28

public company. Um, only thing I will

00:38:30

say here, he truly does believe in this

00:38:32

multilanetary extending consciousness.

00:38:35

It's not, this is not marketing on his

00:38:37

behalf. He has a demented loony idea

00:38:40

that humanity will die and he should be

00:38:42

the god of Mars. So, and speaking of

00:38:45

war, um, but your thoughts on this

00:38:48

entire thing besides monarchy and

00:38:50

god-like feelings that he has?

00:38:52

>> Well, just a brief history of dual class

00:38:53

shareholder companies. They were

00:38:55

originally invented by media companies

00:38:56

who claimed they wanted to pursue

00:38:58

journalism without the vagaries.

00:39:00

>> New York Times.

00:39:01

>> Well, yeah, a bunch of them actually.

00:39:03

Almost a lot of them said, and there's

00:39:05

some legitimacy there. These families

00:39:07

said, "We don't want someone who hates

00:39:09

us to show up and start dictating

00:39:11

editorial control. So, we want to

00:39:12

maintain control. Whether you believe

00:39:15

that or not, fine." But then the first

00:39:17

tech company to do that was uh the

00:39:20

Google guys. They said, "We want two

00:39:22

classes of shares." And what's

00:39:24

interesting is in the late '9s there was

00:39:28

a rumor that Seoia was trying to sell

00:39:31

its shares in a private uh Google

00:39:34

because the they they clashed they

00:39:37

really clashed with Sergey and Larry who

00:39:39

demanded two class of shares and that

00:39:41

was so unusual and Sequoa's thought was

00:39:44

you're not going to be able to get

00:39:45

public. You're not a newspaper company.

00:39:47

you're not a journalism company or a

00:39:48

tech company. And basically Google then

00:39:52

everybody else has followed in Google's

00:39:54

footsteps. Now to be fair to Musk, uh,

00:39:57

you know, when I went on the board of

00:39:58

the New York Times and was the largest

00:39:59

shareholder,

00:40:01

I all I really was was heckling from the

00:40:03

cheap seats and effectively an advisory

00:40:05

board. So while you get some sort of

00:40:08

representation, you really don't have at

00:40:11

the end of the day, the family decides

00:40:12

what they're going to do over

00:40:13

Thanksgiving dinner. The Ford family is

00:40:15

the same way. They own very few shares

00:40:17

but they control the company and tech

00:40:19

has figured this out. So this is this is

00:40:21

nothing nothing new and to be fair most

00:40:23

of the academic studies have shown that

00:40:25

dual class shareholder companies have

00:40:27

not vastly underperformed single share

00:40:29

companies.

00:40:29

>> Yeah I don't think that's the issue.

00:40:31

It's they can't be fired.

00:40:33

>> Oh he's in charge. And not only that but

00:40:35

I mean this is where the [ __ ] will get

00:40:36

crazy and I can't wait to read the S1.

00:40:39

you know, Adam Newman wanted his kids to

00:40:41

inherit the company, you know, and Musk

00:40:44

is saying, so but look, you the reality

00:40:48

is shareholders have a choice around

00:40:49

whether they want to buy shares. And

00:40:52

what you do with a tool class

00:40:53

shareholder company is one, eventually

00:40:55

you get a bad king, and two, you take

00:40:57

out a premium of of a possible takeover.

00:41:00

And that is Warner Brothers Discovery.

00:41:01

When AT&T spun Warner Brothers, they

00:41:05

demanded a single class share stock such

00:41:07

that the company could be put into play.

00:41:10

And whenever a company is a single share

00:41:12

uh class share company, it usually

00:41:14

trades theoretically at a bit of a

00:41:16

premium because someone could come in

00:41:18

and buy it. So this is this is just you

00:41:22

have to decide whether you believe in

00:41:24

Musk and to be also just the market says

00:41:27

not people are not only willing to put

00:41:28

up a dual class shareholder company

00:41:30

they're willing to buy at what are

00:41:33

errant abnormal extraordinary valuations

00:41:36

because of Musk's involvement but this

00:41:39

is these super voting shares started

00:41:42

with media companies or newspaper

00:41:43

companies then leaked into tech and now

00:41:45

almost everyone is doing it when they go

00:41:48

public Right. I I that that I don't

00:41:50

fault him on. Like, of course. And he,

00:41:51

by the way, he's been running Tesla like

00:41:53

that anyway without having this kind of

00:41:56

thing, right? It doesn't matter. The the

00:41:58

board has has has has

00:42:01

whatever he wants. It's like it's a

00:42:02

completely bought and paid for board

00:42:05

essentially. And so, he gets that shares

00:42:08

and he always threatens to leave and he

00:42:09

throws a fit and it just didn't work at

00:42:11

Open AI. That's what happened there.

00:42:13

They're like, "Yeah, we'll be fine

00:42:14

without you." And they were um for a

00:42:16

time. Uh, so I think this is not an

00:42:19

unusual thing and you do have to realize

00:42:21

he's not going to he is a key man here.

00:42:24

It's just like one bad night in Austin

00:42:26

and you know that's the problem with all

00:42:28

this stuff or he loses interest like

00:42:30

he's done at Tesla. Now the shares have

00:42:32

stayed up because it's a meme stock but

00:42:35

the company's not headed in the right.

00:42:36

He's just lost interest in it and is you

00:42:39

know that's the problem you have here is

00:42:41

these single monarchies. Uh same thing

00:42:44

with with with Zuckerberg. He happens to

00:42:46

be vibrant right now, but boy has he

00:42:48

made a series of idiotic move that would

00:42:50

have gotten other people fired and he

00:42:52

won't be fired. And it it is part of a

00:42:55

mentality of I am the king, I am the god

00:42:58

and that that you have got to buy into

00:43:00

but it has enormous risk because it's

00:43:03

all based predicated on one person and

00:43:07

sometimes that's good but sometimes

00:43:09

that's not so good. Like I just feel

00:43:11

like that buyer beware essentially you

00:43:14

could do well. I think that Musk I I

00:43:16

think there's no way to build a company

00:43:17

like SpaceX or Tesla without having a

00:43:21

ton of good people around him. The

00:43:22

reason why the Messiah complex comes

00:43:25

into effect in that is no one is allowed

00:43:27

to get near.

00:43:29

>> I'm pretty sure the fastest way to get

00:43:30

fired at Tesla or SpaceX is to ever say

00:43:33

anything at a mic. Only Elon is allowed

00:43:37

to talk. This is all about Elon. He's

00:43:39

the genius.

00:43:41

>> We don't There is no Ruth Pat, you know.

00:43:44

There is no Tim Armstrong. There is no

00:43:46

correct. There's no one else anyone's

00:43:48

allowed. You're locked in.

00:43:49

>> Can I say something? Can I just

00:43:51

interject? When I wanted to interview

00:43:52

Gwen Shotwell years and years ago at one

00:43:54

of my code conferences, they said only

00:43:56

Elon will speak to you. Like I was like,

00:43:59

what are you talking about? She's

00:44:00

obviously doing an amazing job. Like I

00:44:02

really wanted to

00:44:05

>> all about Elon.

00:44:06

>> Only Elon. And I was like I remember at

00:44:08

the time being like well that's [ __ ]

00:44:09

up because she deserves like I want to

00:44:12

hear from her anyway. But but what I

00:44:14

would suggest investors do when the S1

00:44:16

comes out and I'm going to spend some

00:44:17

time on this is not focus on the dual

00:44:20

class shareholder structure but simple

00:44:22

uh basic boring stuff uh or the boring

00:44:24

knitting of valuation and that is the

00:44:26

following. At some point an amazing

00:44:29

company is a shitty investment if it

00:44:30

gets too expensive and at some point a

00:44:32

shitty company is an amazing investment

00:44:33

if it gets cheap enough. And let's just

00:44:34

talk about valuation here. Google IPOed

00:44:38

trading at about 10 times trailing

00:44:40

revenue and it was growing revenues 240%

00:44:43

before the IPO. So 10 times revenue

00:44:46

growing 240% a year. Meta IPOed at 28

00:44:50

times trailing revenue growing revenues

00:44:52

at 88% a year before the IPO. Saudi

00:44:55

Aramco five times trailing revenue

00:44:57

growing revenues 41% a year. SpaceX will

00:45:00

IPO at 109 times trailing revenue,

00:45:04

growing revenues at 20% a year.

00:45:07

>> Ouch.

00:45:08

>> So, and to be clear, space is the

00:45:11

ultimate addressable market. They have

00:45:13

most the size of the Amazon, but it's

00:45:16

going out at 10 times the valuation on a

00:45:20

multiple basis as Google did with a

00:45:22

tenth of the growth. And then if you

00:45:25

just want to look at valuations, Amazon

00:45:27

went public at 900 million. Microsoft at

00:45:29

2.3 billion, Apple at 7 billion, and

00:45:32

Google at 40 billion, and what SpaceX is

00:45:36

targeting two trillion. So, all I have

00:45:39

to say is, is is SpaceX an amazing

00:45:43

company or is it massively overvalued?

00:45:47

The answer is yes.

00:45:48

>> Yes. Yeah. Well, we'll see. And you

00:45:50

could still do well. Okay, moving on

00:45:51

very quickly. Louisiana Senator Bill

00:45:53

Cassie lost his Republican primary after

00:45:55

President Trump targeted him in

00:45:56

retaliation for voting to convict him in

00:45:58

his impeachment trial 5 years ago. Trump

00:46:01

backed Representative Julia Lelo uh who

00:46:04

finished ahead with about 45% of the

00:46:06

vote on true social. Trump celebrated

00:46:08

the loss saying that Cassid's disloyalty

00:46:10

to the man who got him elected is now

00:46:12

part of legend and it's nice to see that

00:46:14

his political career is over. Cassidy

00:46:16

took a swipe at Trump during his

00:46:17

concession speech. Just listen to a

00:46:19

clip. When you participate in democracy,

00:46:22

sometimes it doesn't turn out the way

00:46:24

you want it to. But you don't pout. You

00:46:27

don't whine. You don't claim the

00:46:29

election was stolen. You don't find a

00:46:31

reason why.

00:46:38

You don't manufacture some excuse. You

00:46:41

thank the voters for the privilege of

00:46:43

representing the state or the country

00:46:45

for as long as you've had that

00:46:46

privilege. So interestingly also just

00:46:49

for a related story, Supreme Court

00:46:50

blocked an effort to revive Democratic

00:46:52

backed Virginia congressional map that

00:46:54

could have flipped several GOP house

00:46:56

seats. The map uh had been approved by

00:46:58

voters but struck down by Virginia

00:46:59

Supreme Court and Supreme Court did not

00:47:01

give a reason for denying the emergency

00:47:02

appeal in the order. They usually don't

00:47:04

meddle with Supreme Courts really is

00:47:06

what I'm told. Um so there's some worry

00:47:08

that Democrats should worry about the

00:47:10

political environment. Others feel no

00:47:12

that it's not the case that it was it

00:47:14

was a good thing to have but not a

00:47:15

mustave. I mean, this Cassie thing is

00:47:17

interesting because suddenly, again,

00:47:19

like Tom Tillis, he's found his balls

00:47:21

and he does have until January to do

00:47:23

something about it. He's the one that

00:47:24

backed RFK and even though he knew

00:47:26

better, he did a lot. He voted yes for

00:47:28

Pete Hegathth. Shouldn't have done it,

00:47:30

now can be regretful of it. I know

00:47:32

Tillis took a really big slap at

00:47:34

Hegathth this week. These two could make

00:47:37

trouble for Trump until January. Quite a

00:47:39

bit of trouble. Um, but you know, as

00:47:42

Tillis did with the with um around the

00:47:45

uh Fed chairman uh vote. Uh so what do

00:47:49

you think about this? I mean, democracy

00:47:50

is democracy and Trump has power in

00:47:52

these states. So thoughts about both

00:47:54

things?

00:47:55

>> I'm torn because I understand I'm

00:47:57

sympathetic to the notion that you can't

00:48:00

do good if you don't get elected. And

00:48:02

this is no longer the Republican party.

00:48:04

It's MAGA. It puts these people in a

00:48:05

very difficult position. I also think

00:48:07

there's some legitimacy to the argument

00:48:09

that Bill Cassidy should lose his

00:48:10

medical license because to

00:48:12

>> oh

00:48:13

>> to be well he was the swing vote

00:48:15

>> I know that I got

00:48:17

>> believe it

00:48:18

>> they got RFK

00:48:20

I mean I've said this before no one is

00:48:22

doing more damage abroad than Secretary

00:48:25

Hagsath no one is doing more damage to

00:48:26

children domestically than RFK Jr.

00:48:30

Uh, measles is on the rise.

00:48:32

>> I know you mean it's repulsive.

00:48:35

>> He's a murderer. He's a murderer.

00:48:37

>> So, and this is the doctor. He took a

00:48:40

hypocratic oath

00:48:43

and he confirmed a guy he knew was was

00:48:47

creating fear and insecurity around our

00:48:49

medical our great medical institutions

00:48:50

and around and and and demonizing

00:48:54

vaccines.

00:48:55

And he's a [ __ ] doctor. I mean, so I

00:49:00

I I want to feel some glee here, but

00:49:02

here's the problem.

00:49:04

It was good to have a doctor on many of

00:49:05

these panels. He was about as reasonable

00:49:08

as they came. The person that's probably

00:49:11

going to replace him is going to be

00:49:12

worse. So, this is just one of those

00:49:14

things. It's like shavings of [ __ ] on a

00:49:16

[ __ ] salad. And it's fun to be gleeful

00:49:19

about it and say, "Senator Cassidy,

00:49:21

you're, you know, the only thing I know

00:49:24

that's gonna come of this is, oh my god,

00:49:26

wait and see the testicles that this

00:49:28

senator is suddenly about to find he

00:49:30

has."

00:49:30

>> Yes, he just did.

00:49:31

>> Just watch him on Bill Maher. All of a

00:49:33

sudden, he's going to turn into a trutht

00:49:35

teller.

00:49:35

>> Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:36

>> I can't wait to see what he says about

00:49:38

RFK now.

00:49:39

>> Yeah.

00:49:39

>> And the problem is, folks, that's not

00:49:41

when we need your testicles.

00:49:43

>> That's correct.

00:49:44

>> That's not when we need you to be a

00:49:46

leader. So I I I just think this is you

00:49:49

look left, you look right, and this is

00:49:51

[ __ ] avenue because he was a reasonable

00:49:54

guy. You do need medical professionals

00:49:56

on these panels to say, "Okay, one of us

00:49:59

is a doctor. Everyone else shut the [ __ ]

00:50:01

up." I I think that training does pay

00:50:04

off. I believe in expertise. I believe

00:50:06

in credentials. I believe in

00:50:07

peer-reviewed research. I believe in

00:50:08

science. And so should America. We need

00:50:11

more doctors, I think, in in Congress.

00:50:14

the person who replaces him and he must

00:50:16

be pissed off because quite frankly

00:50:18

while they're saying he came in third,

00:50:20

he actually barely lost because he got

00:50:22

25.

00:50:24

The other candidate who was anti-Trump

00:50:26

or not a Trumpy got 28. So if he had

00:50:28

just gotten 28 or 29, he might have won

00:50:32

in the general. I got to be honest

00:50:34

though, you know what I'm so excited to

00:50:36

see?

00:50:36

>> What?

00:50:37

>> Oh my god, he's going after village

00:50:40

idiot Lauren Boowbert.

00:50:41

>> Oh, he's going after Lauren Boowbert.

00:50:42

And I just I just want to say I'm going

00:50:44

to host a fundraiser for for Boowbert

00:50:47

and it's going to be whoever wins, she

00:50:49

has to go on a date with your

00:50:50

17-year-old son. I think she is the best

00:50:52

date for a high school.

00:50:54

>> Oh my god.

00:50:54

>> She'll let you.

00:50:58

She goes to Beetlejuice.

00:51:00

>> Where were you when I was 17?

00:51:02

Representative Boowbert, where were you?

00:51:05

>> No, you didn't say anything about the

00:51:06

Democratic thing in Virginia. Briefly,

00:51:08

>> but I said this last week. I we we're

00:51:11

hoping that that redistricting

00:51:15

is beat by vibes. I just don't think

00:51:18

there's any way to to to polish this.

00:51:20

This is bad for Democrats.

00:51:22

>> Yeah, I think I I think he can't deny

00:51:24

polling. Polling is polling and

00:51:25

everywhere it happens. You got to win by

00:51:28

winning the votes. That's the way you

00:51:29

got to do it.

00:51:30

>> But but I take the other side of that.

00:51:31

If you jerrymander enough, you can win.

00:51:33

You can win more than you deserve.

00:51:35

>> I still think it's an overwhelming It's

00:51:37

going to be a train. the latest. All

00:51:39

right. Well, we'll see. We'll see. We'll

00:51:41

see. By the way, I believe in the

00:51:42

voters.

00:51:42

>> By the way, another talking point, Pete.

00:51:45

Pete or Rom. This is my grid. I took a

00:51:48

grid. It's It's my my eight-year-old did

00:51:52

it. You know, Pete has little kids. He

00:51:54

draw he drew eight lines exactly

00:51:57

equidistant, horizontally, and he put it

00:52:00

on top of the US map. And this is what

00:52:02

I'm going to propose for congressional

00:52:05

districts. I'm going to dejerrymander

00:52:08

the United States. I think that is a

00:52:09

great talking point right now.

00:52:11

>> That's another good one. Great. Let's go

00:52:12

on a quick break. When we come back, the

00:52:14

reality star in the LA mayoral race.

00:52:18

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00:53:50

Scott, we're back with more news. This

00:53:51

one. Oh my god. You could have run for

00:53:53

mayor of Los Angeles at this point.

00:53:55

Spencer Pratt, formerly a reality show

00:53:57

of The Hills, an generally awful person,

00:54:00

is unexpectedly emerging as a contender

00:54:02

in the Los Angeles mayor's race. I'm not

00:54:04

so clear he's going to win, but he's got

00:54:05

the mo. Despite his lack of uh political

00:54:08

experience, Pratt has gained traction

00:54:09

through viral social media campaigning

00:54:12

and support from figures like Joe Rogan

00:54:14

and Elon Musk. Of course, Elon Musk.

00:54:16

Pratt has built his campaign around

00:54:18

frustration with the cost of living in

00:54:19

the city's response to wildfires which

00:54:21

destroyed his own home. Um, lot of

00:54:23

reporting by Harvey Levan has shown most

00:54:26

of the stuff he's saying to be nonsense.

00:54:28

Um, thank God for TMZ at this point. Um,

00:54:32

he's signed up uh, of course an

00:54:33

unscripted series following his bid to

00:54:35

be mayor and going into mayor of course

00:54:37

because this is all a scam with Spencer

00:54:39

Pratt and elsewhere in California

00:54:41

politics which seems insane this at this

00:54:44

particular juncture. California

00:54:45

gubernatorial candidate Tom Styer is

00:54:47

under investigation after his campaign

00:54:49

paid influencers to post favorable

00:54:51

content without clearly disclosing it

00:54:52

was sponsored. California law requires

00:54:54

paid political content to include

00:54:56

disclaimers as it should and state

00:54:58

regulators are now looking into whether

00:54:59

those rules were violated. Both

00:55:00

Democratic Republican groups report

00:55:02

spent millions of this type of

00:55:03

endorsement over the past few campaign

00:55:05

cycles. It's very it's propaganda. Um,

00:55:08

so reality stars, influencers, of course

00:55:11

it's California, Spencer [ __ ] Pratt,

00:55:14

like what in the [ __ ] [ __ ] And a lot of

00:55:17

people donate to him, by the way, don't

00:55:18

live in Los Angeles, but that's neither

00:55:21

here nor there. Thoughts?

00:55:23

>> I had a friend call me and ask me to

00:55:25

have him on the raging moderates pod.

00:55:26

And look, a reality TV star. He lost his

00:55:30

house in the Palisades. He's very good

00:55:32

on camera. He understands social media.

00:55:34

Uh, he's got a lot of momentum. He's

00:55:36

running against what I think is a weak

00:55:37

candidate and a frustrated populace. LA

00:55:39

has become a little bit like I would

00:55:41

describe it as Cape Town. There are some

00:55:43

areas of Cape Town I think this is the

00:55:44

nicest place in the world and then if

00:55:46

you venture a few minutes outside of

00:55:48

them it gets really ugly really fast.

00:55:50

>> And the homeless problem, you know, I

00:55:53

think it's fair for people to say, "I'm

00:55:55

paying some of the highest taxes in the

00:55:56

nation.

00:55:57

>> I want I have to walk this way to my

00:56:00

kids to school so they don't see a

00:56:02

homeless man masturbating or [ __ ] in

00:56:04

the streets." that you know you you can

00:56:07

understand the the amount of bureaucracy

00:56:10

trying to deal with the fires. A lot of

00:56:12

people don't like the way the fires.

00:56:13

This is ripe for somebody to challenge

00:56:16

Karen Mayor Bass. Uh where I land on the

00:56:20

following is the following. Spencer

00:56:21

Pratt embraced Alex Jones is said 911

00:56:26

was an inside job and brought up doubt

00:56:28

about Sandy Hook. Go [ __ ] yourself. I I

00:56:31

would vote for anyone over someone who

00:56:34

has embra embracing Alex Jones

00:56:36

disqualifies you to run the what is one

00:56:38

of the great cities in the world. So

00:56:41

this guy is evidence again of revolution

00:56:44

and people so angry and so upset I hope

00:56:48

and it's also evidence of just how hard

00:56:49

it is to find reasonably competent

00:56:52

people to run for office

00:56:54

>> like Rick Caruso was supposed to

00:56:56

challenge her who

00:56:57

>> Rick would have been great. I'm trying

00:56:58

to get my friend Jamie Patrickov to run.

00:57:01

He's nice. He loves LA. He has the

00:57:02

money, which is important. He's

00:57:04

pragmatic. He's a business person. None

00:57:07

of these people want to put their family

00:57:08

or themselves through this [ __ ]

00:57:10

Also, somebody has to come in and take

00:57:12

on many of the special interest groups,

00:57:14

including unions, including entrenched

00:57:15

Democrats. A and it is a a lot of people

00:57:19

will say, people really thought go LA

00:57:22

like California has become nearly

00:57:24

ungovernable. And that is the special

00:57:27

interest groups are so entrenched and so

00:57:28

hard to overcome. There's so much

00:57:30

bureaucracy. It is so hard to find

00:57:31

talented people to try and do this.

00:57:34

Everybody wants theirs and that it's

00:57:36

become a very difficult but Spencer

00:57:38

Pratt.

00:57:38

>> I know it's just amazing that some that

00:57:40

people are backing this guy. This guy

00:57:42

and by the way I I'm not kidding about

00:57:43

Harvey Lean. He actually showed how much

00:57:46

he was living at the Bair Hotel and was

00:57:49

pretending to Anyway, look, there's

00:57:51

frustration over everything. A lot of

00:57:53

the stuff that he's talking about is not

00:57:55

the responsibility of Bass, but there's

00:57:57

anger at Bass about how she handled

00:57:59

that. No question. There's anger and

00:58:01

frustration about homelessness. There's

00:58:02

anger and frustration. But your your

00:58:04

your choice is not to go with Spencer

00:58:06

[ __ ] Pratt, by the way, who's just

00:58:09

one con after another. He really is. He

00:58:12

really is. And lie and con after

00:58:14

another. There's another council member

00:58:15

who's also showing some some a little

00:58:19

bit not momentum but some numbers who

00:58:21

had backed Bass and now is running

00:58:23

against Bass probably should

00:58:25

>> I hate to say this but probably strike

00:58:28

some sort of deal with Bass step down

00:58:29

and she will probably win Bass will

00:58:32

because she's there's no

00:58:33

>> pe no Latinos or black people are voting

00:58:36

for Spencer Brat and it's all outside

00:58:38

money it's all people who have like very

00:58:41

little interest in it but he is

00:58:43

articulating in anger

00:58:44

Even if he's the worst vessel poss

00:58:48

>> that's exactly right and but this guy

00:58:50

makes Trump look like a genius. Like let

00:58:52

me just say this is not even close. It's

00:58:54

it would be such an embarrassment for

00:58:56

this to happen in San Francisco. You get

00:58:58

Daniel Lur, someone who's a really who's

00:59:01

doing a good job. And by the way, I I

00:59:03

still don't think Lennon Breed did the

00:59:04

worst job of all. It just was she had a

00:59:06

lot of stuff that got piled up on top of

00:59:08

her. Um and and and and didn't have the

00:59:11

tools because of different legal things

00:59:13

that got passed later that she couldn't

00:59:15

deal with the homeless issue there, but

00:59:17

now Lur can. Um you you need someone

00:59:20

like Luri, like find someone like that,

00:59:23

like who is going to be like little

00:59:25

maybe a little more centrist than the

00:59:26

left wants, maybe a little uh not as not

00:59:29

as conservative as others want, right?

00:59:32

someone who's going to try to solve

00:59:33

problems and at least make an attempt to

00:59:36

do so and instead this laughable like

00:59:39

con man is the person you're picking and

00:59:41

and full of constant lies. It will be a

00:59:43

disaster for Los Angeles is one of the

00:59:45

most beautiful places on earth and if

00:59:47

they could be now Los Angeles compared

00:59:49

to San Francisco is a quantum level of

00:59:51

difficulty of running. It just is like

00:59:53

let's be clear. Um and uh but this is

00:59:57

not what you want. And I think Bass has

00:59:59

started to acknowledge the problems, is

01:00:01

saying all the right things. It's likely

01:00:03

she'll win. But the momentum for this

01:00:05

[ __ ] clown, especially, let me tell

01:00:07

you, anyone who calls me from Los

01:00:09

Angeles, and several have that say

01:00:12

they're looking at them, we are no

01:00:13

longer friends. Like, sorry. Just sorry.

01:00:16

Like,

01:00:16

>> but the reason they're looking at them,

01:00:17

quite frankly, you're being very

01:00:19

generous to Mayor Bass,

01:00:20

>> right? I am. I am. I I agree. I think

01:00:22

she's I has has not been great, but this

01:00:24

is the choice you have, right? This is

01:00:26

the

01:00:26

>> Fair enough. But there's a couple

01:00:27

takeaways here. Mayor Lurri and

01:00:29

Democrats, especially Democrats in

01:00:32

executive roles, not legislative roles.

01:00:34

There's a difference. Governor and

01:00:36

mayor, it's an executive role.

01:00:37

>> Agree.

01:00:38

>> And what Mayor Luri is doing, and every

01:00:40

Democratic um mayor needs to take a

01:00:42

lesson, a note out of this page book and

01:00:44

governor because if if Democratic

01:00:45

governors and mayors can't figure out a

01:00:47

way to not make their cities come across

01:00:49

as [ __ ] holes, it is going to be very

01:00:51

hard for them to run. They've got to

01:00:53

show they have the ability to say no to

01:00:55

special interest groups and be about

01:00:56

blocking and tackling such that they

01:00:58

focus on quality of life issues. And

01:01:01

what Mayor Lurri has done that is so

01:01:03

impressive is if you ask him about

01:01:05

Israel, if you ask him about Ukraine, if

01:01:07

you ask him even about a national issue,

01:01:10

bodily autonomy that doesn't directly

01:01:12

affect right now San Franciscans who

01:01:14

have access to family planning, he says,

01:01:16

"I'm not going to talk about it. That's

01:01:18

not why I'm here." Every mayor and

01:01:20

governor in the United States thinks

01:01:22

that their mayoral or their governor

01:01:24

governorship is a kickoff campaign for

01:01:26

them to run for president. No. Get the

01:01:29

subways to run on [ __ ] time. Figure

01:01:31

out the way the trash gets picked up.

01:01:33

Figure out a way to strike a deal with

01:01:35

the unions if you're dealing with that

01:01:36

such that they make good livingings, but

01:01:38

it's not they're not making $180,000 a

01:01:41

year for their 40% agree with you in

01:01:43

retirement. Stop talking about national

01:01:46

and international issues. No one gives a

01:01:48

[ __ ] what you think. run this city. And

01:01:51

that is exactly what Mayor Lur is doing.

01:01:53

And he's very popular and he's getting a

01:01:55

lot of support and he's getting [ __ ]

01:01:57

done and he's making hard decisions

01:01:58

around homelessness and around municipal

01:02:01

transportation. The other thing I want

01:02:03

to say that'll be Tommy Star has

01:02:06

basically been accused of astroturfing.

01:02:09

I mean, that's effectively what it is.

01:02:10

You're paying for people who endorse you

01:02:12

who don't disclose their endorsement.

01:02:14

Okay. So is everyone else,

01:02:18

>> right? I get it.

01:02:19

>> When when Manny was running and I said

01:02:22

anything about the mayoral race,

01:02:24

hundreds of comments from bots, you're

01:02:29

going to tell me they somehow weren't

01:02:30

connected to money and his campaign.

01:02:33

>> No, it's a part of modern political

01:02:35

life.

01:02:36

>> And so if Tom Styer does an astroturf,

01:02:38

then good for him and he's going to

01:02:40

lose. This is now the world we live in.

01:02:43

Unless the platforms figure out an

01:02:44

airtight way to get rid of anonymous

01:02:46

accounts and unless they start going

01:02:49

after agencies that claim to be PR and

01:02:51

comm's firms, you are. Let me go

01:02:53

further. You're stupid not to astroturf

01:02:56

back because everyone's doing it to you.

01:02:59

>> It is. It's just that there's got to be

01:03:01

a way to solve this because it's such

01:03:03

like it's so

01:03:04

>> platforms have to do it.

01:03:05

>> No, absolutely. It's so noisy we can't

01:03:07

hear what people are saying. In this

01:03:08

case, it looks like probably Basera

01:03:10

looks like he's surging ahead at this

01:03:12

point. But that whole California race

01:03:14

has been insane. Like all of them have

01:03:17

got to someone needs to knock heads

01:03:18

there, but no one could knock heads

01:03:20

anymore, right? So it's sort of a race

01:03:22

to be an influencer or something or some

01:03:24

version of cheap and dirty. And that's a

01:03:27

real shame. Um it really is. It's, you

01:03:29

know, California is an important state

01:03:30

and should be governed by serious people

01:03:33

both as cities are important cities. Um

01:03:36

they've led the way on innovation.

01:03:38

whether they have troubles now that's a

01:03:39

different issue. I wish there was an

01:03:41

alternative to Bass that was serious and

01:03:43

I you know I get why you'd want to be

01:03:45

behind it but this you're doing this

01:03:47

there's something wrong with you.

01:03:48

There's something real wrong with you

01:03:49

anyway. We'll see what happens. We'll

01:03:51

see. He may just fade just cuz he's such

01:03:53

a seems like such a village idiot. But

01:03:55

we'll see. And if he wins watch out

01:03:57

[ __ ] below

01:03:58

>> I've watched some of his stuff. I'll

01:03:59

give him I think he's actually he's got

01:04:01

some of that Trump charisma. He does.

01:04:03

He's got some of that.

01:04:04

>> That's why he was a successful reality.

01:04:06

>> Anger and outrage tapping in. Again,

01:04:08

this all comes back to the same thing.

01:04:10

People are getting 110 notifications on

01:04:13

their phone that everyone's making bank

01:04:15

and has a hot boyfriend or girlfriend

01:04:18

except them. Everyone feels as if

01:04:20

they're falling behind. And when you're

01:04:23

falling behind and you're angry, chaos

01:04:26

is your preferred candidate.

01:04:28

>> That's correct. You're absolutely right.

01:04:30

Anyway, uh well, we'll see what happens

01:04:33

there. Uh I I'd be interested. Don't

01:04:35

have Spencer Pratt on if you don't mind.

01:04:37

You can, but you have to whack his the

01:04:38

[ __ ] out of him.

01:04:39

>> No. Jess said Jess said if we do that,

01:04:42

we have to have Mayor Bass on. And I'm

01:04:43

like, I don't I'm not going to platform

01:04:45

anyone who said 9/11 is was an inside

01:04:48

job and is and has shared the stage with

01:04:51

Alex Jones.

01:04:52

>> And other than saying my heart goes out

01:04:55

to the victims of Sandy Hook,

01:04:57

>> that's just disqualifying. I I'm doing a

01:05:00

lot of virtue signaling right now, but

01:05:01

those are red lines. Those are okay.

01:05:02

Those are red lines. Those are good

01:05:04

virtues, I would say. They're not virtue

01:05:05

signaling. It's virtues. They're

01:05:07

virtuous. What? Virtuous. Those are good

01:05:09

virtues. Uh there are some good virtues

01:05:11

uh these days. Anyway, one more quick

01:05:12

break. We'll be back for wins and fails.

01:05:15

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01:07:34

Okay, let's do some wins and fails.

01:07:37

Should I go first?

01:07:37

>> You go first.

01:07:38

>> Okay. I'm going to put it as a win and a

01:07:40

fail on both. Now, I love Steven

01:07:42

Colbear, right? I love him. I think he's

01:07:44

really funny. I think he's gonna have an

01:07:46

enormous career after he leaves. Uh I

01:07:48

think they're overdoing it on the

01:07:50

Goodbye Tour. I have to say it the plays

01:07:52

I hate to agree with people, but it's

01:07:53

like

01:07:54

>> it's like a woman's birthday party that

01:07:56

turns into a Jubilee coronation for two

01:07:58

[ __ ] years.

01:07:59

>> Like come on. It's you know already.

01:08:01

>> Like it's it's like and it's also like

01:08:03

it's the five white guys. I was like

01:08:05

this you're not making yourself feel

01:08:08

like I get it. I'm pissed. I'm pissed

01:08:10

myself about

01:08:12

the takeover. I I am too. But I'm not

01:08:15

going to like go on about that said when

01:08:18

they what I did love is when they bring

01:08:20

Letterman back who I love when he's mad.

01:08:22

Like I love a Letterman anger and I

01:08:23

think it's really funny and that was

01:08:25

sort of his brand and sort of dispic

01:08:27

anger and they threw the furniture and

01:08:29

then they threw the melons and they

01:08:30

threw the um the birthday cake off the

01:08:33

roof. I thought that was so funny and

01:08:36

just exactly all I needed. So there that

01:08:39

was my win and fail at the same time.

01:08:41

And when he says, "Good night and good

01:08:42

luck, motherfuckers." That made me laugh

01:08:45

hysterically. Like, do it in humor, but

01:08:48

it's getting like it's getting a little

01:08:50

much. I God, I can't believe Megan Kelly

01:08:53

said a version of this. And I hate to

01:08:55

agree with her, but and I love Steven

01:08:57

Cobear, and I think he's got I think

01:08:59

they're not telling the truth about what

01:09:00

happened here. I do know that these

01:09:02

shows are declining, and this is the way

01:09:04

it goes. They could have done a lot of

01:09:06

other things, but just stick with the

01:09:08

funny and we all know you got [ __ ]

01:09:10

Like, I get it, but just go on and do

01:09:13

great things. That's what I would say. I

01:09:15

just am feeling a little bit like, okay,

01:09:17

boys, you know, there are lots of people

01:09:19

that get [ __ ] So, let's let's let's

01:09:22

do something about it as you say. All

01:09:24

right, your win and fail. People are

01:09:26

gonna be mad at me, but I love Steven

01:09:27

Coar anyway. Well, I have a fail and a

01:09:30

prediction and

01:09:33

okay, so um my fail is Nicholas Kristoff

01:09:38

and what I believe is a breakdown in

01:09:39

standards at the New York Times and his

01:09:42

piece on Palestinian prisoners. I think

01:09:45

it's my fail and not because the subject

01:09:46

isn't serious and not because

01:09:50

it's not it's an important issue. I

01:09:52

believe that our military operations in

01:09:54

Western societies and democracies need

01:09:56

to be held to a higher standard.

01:09:58

And whether it's a second strike on a on

01:10:02

a on a boat, not a Navy vessel, with

01:10:04

survivors and not giving them quarter,

01:10:07

or the abuse of Palestinian prisoners, I

01:10:10

think that the IDF should be held to a

01:10:11

higher standard than any military in the

01:10:14

Middle East. So, it's not that it's it's

01:10:16

not that it's not an important issue,

01:10:18

but there's a line in the piece

01:10:20

suggesting that dogs were trained to

01:10:22

rape prisoners.

01:10:24

That's an extraordinary claim. And

01:10:27

extraordinary claims require a level of

01:10:29

evidence that was not met here. Not

01:10:31

vibes, not hearsay, not someone said. If

01:10:34

you're going to publish something that

01:10:36

incendiary, you need airtight sourcing,

01:10:39

multiple corroborated on there

01:10:41

confirmations or clear documentation.

01:10:43

And as someone who has a background or

01:10:47

experience with Belgian Malininois and

01:10:49

uh has come very close to adopting a

01:10:52

canine dog, the notion that a dog can be

01:10:54

trained to physically rape somebody,

01:10:57

it's just [ __ ] ridiculous.

01:11:00

And I feel that they're not informing

01:11:02

the public. They're injecting a

01:11:03

narrative accelerant into one of the

01:11:05

most volatile conflicts on the planet.

01:11:08

And here's the bigger problem. When

01:11:10

legacy media outlets, especially one

01:11:12

that has the prestige, the reputation,

01:11:15

the talent of the New York Time, runs

01:11:17

with claims like that that aren't

01:11:19

bulletproofed. They're not risking being

01:11:21

wrong. They're they're risking a further

01:11:24

erosion and trust in everything else

01:11:26

that's true. And they hand ammunition to

01:11:29

people who want to dismiss all reporting

01:11:32

as biased or fabricated. And this isn't

01:11:35

I'm trying not to take sides here. I

01:11:37

think this is about standards. War is

01:11:39

where truth goes to die on both sides.

01:11:42

Which means journalism needs to be

01:11:44

really disciplined. And if you lower the

01:11:46

bar because the story aligns with your

01:11:48

priors, you're no longer doing

01:11:50

journalism, you're doing advocacy with a

01:11:52

by line. And I think that these abuses,

01:11:55

the ones that can be proven, get

01:11:57

discounted because the media couldn't

01:11:59

resist the most shocking version of the

01:12:00

story. This reminds me of all those

01:12:02

stories about child soldiers that really

01:12:05

upset people for the right reason. You

01:12:07

take something innocent and talk about

01:12:10

killing, taking dogs and combining it

01:12:12

with rape. I it just I read it and I

01:12:14

thought this is just over the [ __ ]

01:12:16

top for the New York Times.

01:12:18

>> Well, can I just I'm not going to push

01:12:21

back because I think there's a lot of

01:12:22

controversy around the story that it was

01:12:24

in the opinion section that in this case

01:12:27

it probably the New York Times reporters

01:12:29

on the scene should have written

01:12:31

>> a a follow-up story or something to talk

01:12:34

about this. Now, Kristoff is known as an

01:12:38

excellent journalist, has done amazing

01:12:40

work,

01:12:40

>> feels not just that, not just cuz he won

01:12:42

the Post Prize, but like amazing work on

01:12:44

all sorts of abuses across the world,

01:12:46

and he's been accurate as a he's a very

01:12:48

good reporter, too.

01:12:50

>> Um, but this was an opinion section

01:12:52

piece, as you know. Um, and the New York

01:12:54

Times has been very supportive of him,

01:12:56

but I think in this case, this should

01:12:59

have been also reported because of the

01:13:02

nature of it. You've got to have like

01:13:04

extensive reporting on this even if it

01:13:08

because it's so incendiary and I I think

01:13:11

probably I don't know what happened and

01:13:13

they need to talk about it but the New

01:13:14

York Times is backing his reporting. The

01:13:17

question is should they do more

01:13:19

reporting right on and if this was the

01:13:21

same allegations on the Israeli side as

01:13:24

been has been I mean on the Hamas side

01:13:26

um of the same sexual abuses same thing

01:13:29

right like allegations same thing and so

01:13:33

that's what's important here is to do as

01:13:35

I think you double report stuff like

01:13:38

this triple report and quadruple report

01:13:40

it'll be interesting to see how it how

01:13:42

it pans out because the times has been

01:13:45

backing him on this

01:13:47

Um and and he he is citing a lot of UN

01:13:51

stuff. He's citing a lot of reports on

01:13:53

the scene. He's citing a lot of stuff,

01:13:54

but it requires extra extra reporting.

01:13:58

As much as, you know, that may be seem

01:14:00

offensive to some, I I think I do agree

01:14:02

with you here. They've got to really

01:14:04

button it up in a way that

01:14:06

because of the incendiary nature and

01:14:09

where it is at the same time. Even if

01:14:11

you you you have a side and you feel

01:14:13

like you know that war does result in

01:14:16

terrible abuses of the citizenry.

01:14:18

>> Yeah. I'm going to defer to you on

01:14:19

journalistic standards. I just read it

01:14:21

and thought I I have trouble. This seems

01:14:25

so

01:14:28

unbelievable that it required more than

01:14:32

uh more evidence and better reporting

01:14:34

than I I felt was evident in the

01:14:37

article. And that on something that is

01:14:39

so important in terms of how we in the

01:14:42

west and I do consider Israel Israel is

01:14:45

an ally and part of the west the

01:14:46

standards they should be held to are

01:14:48

really important and deserve they

01:14:50

deserve scrutiny. I mean, I get it.

01:14:54

People who when people claim I'm not

01:14:56

anti-Semitic, I'm anti-Israel. I say to

01:14:59

them, you know, I can relate to that

01:15:01

because I don't like Netanyahu, but I

01:15:03

care so much about Israel that I would

01:15:04

like to see Netanyahu voted out of

01:15:06

office because I don't think they have

01:15:07

acquitted themselves well in terms of

01:15:09

many of the ways they have approached

01:15:10

this conflict. I get it. But when you

01:15:14

when you reduce the veracity of your

01:15:17

reporting on this key issue and other

01:15:18

ones by as someone I don't feel like I

01:15:22

have domain expertise around how prisons

01:15:24

are treated. I have some domain

01:15:26

expertise around dogs quite frankly and

01:15:29

I just thought okay I have I can't even

01:15:32

this is unimaginable for me for someone

01:15:34

who has spent a lot of time around

01:15:35

Belgium Malininois

01:15:37

for them to say that and then I'm like

01:15:38

where's the evidence where the pro

01:15:39

where's the proof where's the double the

01:15:41

corroboration the further investigation

01:15:43

and it wasn't there and I thought it

01:15:46

reminded me of when you see those in

01:15:48

just unthinkable

01:15:50

pictures at the end of the war Americans

01:15:52

were really horrified by what they saw

01:15:55

in concentration camps. They were almost

01:15:57

as horrified by the Germans enlisting

01:16:00

14-year-olds and sending them to the

01:16:02

front lines because you took children,

01:16:03

something innocent, and you collided it

01:16:06

with something heinous, killing other

01:16:09

people. And I this this rireed of that

01:16:12

to me. Let's find the most innocent

01:16:13

creatures in the world, dogs, and let's

01:16:16

combine it with rape.

01:16:17

>> Well, let let me just read that for just

01:16:19

for this for people to know. It'll we'll

01:16:21

see where it zeros out, but I'm assuming

01:16:23

there's they're going to do further

01:16:25

reporting would be my guess internally.

01:16:27

Um, and there's a lot of people saying

01:16:29

they're going to they're going to

01:16:30

retract it. I this is Kristoff has said

01:16:32

this is not true. Um, this is the this

01:16:35

was the quote that the New York Times

01:16:36

gave just so we have it. There is no

01:16:38

truth uh to this at all. Nicholas

01:16:40

Krischoff is a two-time Pulitzer

01:16:42

Prizewinning journalist who has reported

01:16:44

on sexual violence for decades and is

01:16:45

widely regarded as one of the best the

01:16:47

world's best on ground reporters

01:16:49

documenting and bearing witness to

01:16:50

sexual abuse experienced by women and

01:16:52

men in war and conflict zones. He

01:16:54

traveled to the region to report

01:16:55

firsthand on the stories of Palestinians

01:16:57

who suffered abuse. And this article

01:16:58

collects accounts of the victim's own

01:17:00

words backed by independent studies. So,

01:17:02

we'll see. This has another chapter

01:17:04

happening because they're getting such

01:17:05

push back and including from Netanyahu.

01:17:08

I I I I I do hate to say like you have

01:17:11

to do extra reporting on certain topics,

01:17:13

but I think there's you have to

01:17:15

anticipate even if um it's Netanyahu or

01:17:18

whoever it happens to be and have

01:17:21

everything locked up tight. I would

01:17:22

agree with you on that. Anyway, we'll

01:17:24

see where it goes. Uh but

01:17:25

>> that was a productive conversation. I

01:17:26

appreciate it.

01:17:27

>> No problem. No problem.

01:17:28

>> So, uh

01:17:29

>> people are going to be mad anyway no

01:17:30

matter what. But

01:17:32

>> there's no talking about this without

01:17:33

everyone going to their corner.

01:17:35

>> Yeah.

01:17:36

>> And and getting very upset. And I

01:17:38

understand that. Um

01:17:39

>> Yeah.

01:17:40

>> Look, my this is I'm not supposed to do

01:17:43

prediction, but I couldn't help it. It

01:17:45

just struck me as fairly obvious. You're

01:17:48

going to see um

01:17:51

uh you're going to see uh an invasion

01:17:55

of some of the islands off the coast of

01:17:59

China. Um well, let me back up.

01:18:03

Basically, um my prediction is Kinman

01:18:06

and Matsu Islands are going to be

01:18:08

invaded in the next 24 months or seized

01:18:11

and you're going to have what the

01:18:12

Chinese

01:18:13

>> Yeah. You'll probably have an economic

01:18:14

blockade. You can't have

01:18:18

I don't think an amphibious assault of

01:18:19

Taiwan is feasible. And I think China

01:18:22

after seeing what's happened in Ukraine

01:18:23

and Iran and the fact there isn't a

01:18:25

single single person in the Chinese

01:18:27

military who has any combat experience,

01:18:30

I don't think they want to get an

01:18:32

amphibious landing in Taiwan is

01:18:34

unthinkable. However, the Straits of

01:18:35

Taiwan are where where 50% of all

01:18:37

shipping goes through.

01:18:39

>> Y

01:18:39

>> I think a soft economic blockade is

01:18:41

coming for the following reasons. A

01:18:43

chill went down my spine when on Air

01:18:45

Force One, Trump was asked if he would

01:18:47

support and defend Taiwan and he said,

01:18:50

uh, I'm not going to let anybody know

01:18:52

that. Oh,

01:18:52

>> he's such an imbecile, such a

01:18:54

>> What is clear to me, and the fact

01:18:56

pattern is just so obvious here, is that

01:18:58

Trump is concerned with one thing, and

01:19:01

that is becoming the wealthiest man in

01:19:02

the world. And I believe he sold out

01:19:06

Taiwan in a private meeting at that

01:19:08

summit. And evidence of that was for the

01:19:11

first time an American president has

01:19:12

said, "Well, I'm not going to say

01:19:13

anything about how I feel about

01:19:17

America's continued support of Taiwan."

01:19:20

And it's not only turning our back on a

01:19:22

democratic ally, but the basic the basic

01:19:25

counterbalance counterbalances amongst

01:19:28

between US Cena relations is the

01:19:30

following. They control 90% of the

01:19:33

processing of rare earth materials. We

01:19:35

control 90% of the most advanced chips

01:19:37

because because of our tight

01:19:40

relationship with Taiwan. If China gets

01:19:44

access to those Taiwanese chips, which

01:19:45

is another reason they wouldn't do an

01:19:47

amphibious invasion because they don't

01:19:48

want to destroy those factories. But if

01:19:50

they use their economic clout to do what

01:19:52

is effectively a soft creeping takeover

01:19:55

of Taiwan and we're not there to support

01:19:57

them, China has won

01:20:00

>> 100%.

01:20:02

It's it's it's the move. It's the move

01:20:04

if you were them.

01:20:05

>> And I think Trump I don't think Trump

01:20:07

gives a [ __ ] about geopolitics, the

01:20:11

decline of US negotiating leverage. I

01:20:15

think he cares about

01:20:16

>> consumers. He doesn't care about

01:20:17

>> I think he cares about one thing. I

01:20:20

think she if I were she, I would have

01:20:21

said the following. You know, you

01:20:24

realize I'm super interested in your

01:20:25

coin and with just a fraction of our

01:20:28

budget, I can use offshore accounts to

01:20:30

take the Trump coin. I think I can get

01:20:33

it worth here's my my ma my math guy

01:20:35

here. I think I can get it worth to be

01:20:39

two 300 billion because price discovery

01:20:41

is at the margins. I think I can take it

01:20:43

there within say 90 days 6 months before

01:20:46

your presidency uh ends and then you'll

01:20:49

have 90 days to uh divest of your

01:20:51

holdings. And by the way, is there any

01:20:54

way you can move out Ohio class

01:20:56

submarines from all the straits of

01:20:58

Taiwan? And by the way, I think economic

01:21:02

reintegration of Taiwan into the great

01:21:04

nation of China would make sense without

01:21:06

any bloodshed. What do you think? I

01:21:08

think that conversation has already

01:21:09

happened and I think evidence of it was

01:21:11

what he said on Air Force One.

01:21:13

>> Yeah, he's a [ __ ]

01:21:14

>> And again, another talking point for a

01:21:16

Democrat. We will back Taiwan

01:21:21

economically and militarily if necessary

01:21:25

because chips are the future. Don't

01:21:27

don't don't get backed into a corner

01:21:29

about threatening another forever war.

01:21:31

Say chips are the future, folks.

01:21:34

>> And Taiwan is an amazing ally of ours.

01:21:36

And the only reason that we have control

01:21:38

over 90% of what is the new oil in an

01:21:40

information economy, and that's chips.

01:21:42

We cannot let Taiwan go to the Chinese.

01:21:45

Make an economic argument, not a

01:21:47

military argument.

01:21:48

>> You know what I would do on top of that?

01:21:49

I would make Jensen Juan move to Taiwan.

01:21:52

See how he feels about that. like with

01:21:54

the Chinese blockade like let's have

01:21:56

some these this selling chips to the

01:21:59

Chinese is such a mistake. It is such an

01:22:01

advantage we have. You 100 I love this

01:22:04

prediction. Scott, you should be mayor

01:22:05

of Los Angeles. That's what we should

01:22:07

run.

01:22:08

>> I'd run out on the In-N-Out on the

01:22:09

In-N-Out ticket. In-N-Out Burger ticket.

01:22:11

>> Yeah, we could run. I I'll be top

01:22:13

adviser and speech right.

01:22:14

>> I like it. I'm in.

01:22:15

>> I'm in. Okay. Anyway, Scott, that is

01:22:17

really smart. That is a really You're

01:22:19

absolutely right. That's exactly how

01:22:20

they're going to do it. and Trump has

01:22:21

sold out a critical critical part of our

01:22:24

uh security. Anyway, and calling David

01:22:27

Sanger, by the way, can I just just last

01:22:29

thing? David Sanger, speaking of great

01:22:31

New York Times reporters, is one of the

01:22:33

top reporters in this area. Calling him

01:22:35

a traitor is is the one of the more

01:22:38

there's so many heinous things Trump

01:22:40

says, but just just absolutely, as I

01:22:43

always say, every accusation is a

01:22:45

confession. He's the traitor. Anyway, uh

01:22:48

we want to hear from you. Send us your

01:22:50

questions about business, tech, or

01:22:51

whatever's on your mind. Go to

01:22:52

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01:22:53

to submit a question for the show or

01:22:54

call 85551 pivot. Okay, that's the show.

01:22:58

Thank you to for listening to Pivot. Be

01:22:59

sure to like and subscribe to our

01:23:01

YouTube channel. We'll be back on

01:23:02

Friday.

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