Inside Elon Musk’s Obsession With Building a ‘Legion’ of Super Babies | Pivot

Elon, you are a sick puppy. I have to tell you, one sick puppy. And I feel bad for these women. I feel bad for these

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kids. Hi everyone, this is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Cara Swisser. So

when I'm in New York every morning, a ritual for me is I make coffee and I

order a kiche and blueberry muffin and a chai latte from Baltazar.

And then I go and I have my morning ritual as in my sitdown. You know, I like to stay regular. And then the

doorman will put the Baltazar delivery in the elevator. And I heard the elevator door open. And if I don't get

it, it goes all the way back down. And I'm always worried that someone's going to steal my chai latte from Baltazar.

Okay. And so I literally this is going with all the grace and strength of a

jungle cat. Yeah. I leapt up from the basin. And at that moment, it dawned on me, I'm an astronaut.

And in between the time between my flight between the basin and the

ceramic, Uhhuh. I realized we're all one part of the same species, Cara. We're

all We're Why can't we just love each other? And And I I I recognized when I

got back to Earth, everything had just changed for me, Cara. Everything had just changed. Yeah. Did you kiss the ground or kiss the ground? over how much

[ __ ] these women are getting. Oh my god. But can I tell you I'm sorry to say deserved. I'd like I was trying to see

the goodness in it. It's because they they won't stop defending themselves

when something was just they should shush. They And also let me say I they did some stuff for women in STEM, but

they're talking about themselves and not girls and women in tech. Especially when people are getting cut. It's just the

it's they just need to stop talking. There's so much about this I love. My favorite moment was when they live

broadcast it. The people kind of, you know, there was the actual people at Blue Origin, you know, saying, you know,

two minutes to launch and someone said, and this is so exciting. When they're up there, Katie Perry is going to sing and

right on cue, someone from Blue Origin goes, one minute warning.

That was classic. That was just perfect. The the memes are fantastic and they are

funny and I think they're hitting because they're true. Like the one about the best one I think you I I posted and

so did you was you know what happens when a bachelorette party comes into a gay bar. This is the picture. Exactly.

Like a straight lady's like whooping it up and stuff. I I think we should start a conspiracy that the Katy Perry that

came back is not the same Katy Perry that went up. Something is going on here. Oh, they may have replaced her. But there's there's actually I have two

sort of observations or two a couple things that struck me. The first is kind of trivial. The other I think is more I

don't know meaningful. If the magazine industry Did you see the cover of L?

Yes, it was. Yes. If the magazine industry wanted to just confirm that it's become totally irrelevant and

tonedeaf, they managed to do it. I think the the kind of for people who don't know there El did a cover with them on

it. But go and it's not just it's not just hers. I mean, did you see the Vanity Fair cover of Tim Cook with his

mixed reality headset on? Yes, that was they decided that that had something to do with anyways and then that cover from

Mel was literally like we need the world to we need to put a fine point on the fact that we as magazines are not only

no longer relevant but we're totally tonedeaf. Anyways, that's my trivial observation. And my more deeper one, my

more substantive observation that I'd like your thoughts on is that when we get to these levels of income inequality

throughout history, they self-correct through war, famine, and oftentimes revolution, right? And when the

guillotine shows up, it's okay. They come up with a crime and maybe this person committed the crime, maybe they

didn't, but they're essentially at the end of the day, the crime is that the 1% have been just [ __ ] the bottom 99%

for way too long. Way too long. And that's it. Go ahead. I was just going to say I think it's really interesting how

much it stuck and especially what's really fun is people are having fun with it one which I think is funny and I like that but it's like very highprofiled

people like they're they're you know just a lot of celebrities are like what in the actual [ __ ] is going on which I

is surprising they usually keep quiet about each other you know what I mean they really do but a lot of people who

don't are saying things some are doing really funny things like the the woman who's in hacks who plays she's amazing

she plays a manager I'm blanking on her um she did this whole fake space flight.

Everyone's really being creative, but that it it strikes at a cord of

something that is and especially I think it is when they're saying it's sexist to say it's a ride. I think this is what

Gail King said. It's sexist to say it's a ride when Alan Shepard did it. When she did the Alan Shepard,

that's who she was comparing it to. Like like this was the train. This was this was hard. This was dangerous back then

and and more dangerous obviously it's always dangerous to go up in space but um the fact that they're pretending it's

feminist when it's not feminist is anti-feminist right that's the thing is

is well they look ridiculous they make attaching it it's it's vanity rebranded

as feminism or adventure but where I was headed was the following is that I think this can be reverse engineered to income

inequality and that is my thesis around black lives matter in the me too movement was that these were righteous

moments inspired by real concerns over systemic racism, the murder of George

Floyd, over the fact that women have just been taking on the wrong end of of

abuse and a terrible an unjust power dynamic at work. These are credible

movements, but if you look at who they went after, they didn't go after sexism

at small or medium-sized business. They didn't go after racism across u the

middle class. They go after rich people. And I think this is part of that

revolution. And that is people are just so sick of rich people trying to claim

the little social status they don't have. And people are just [ __ ] angry.

If they had sent up, you know, six middle class teachers or whatever, people it wouldn't have got any

attention. But this is every revolution and I I think we're quote unquote

rounding up people. It just takes on a different complexion. We're rounding up people and sending them to El Salvador.

Um this is a form of revolution but it's little revolutions. And if you look at it that who people are going for,

they're eating the rich because at the end of the day, they look at these people and they go, you know, this system has just become so perverted and

slanted towards giving the top.1% everything, including some sort

of false sense of adventure or heroism. And people have just people just had it.

I again, I think this all can be reversed to income inequality. The rich need to stay quiet. That's what I feel like. Like shut up. Be rich and

anonymous. Be rich and go to space on your own time. Good for you. You know, it's really interesting because, you

know, this White House correspondents dinner is happening next weekend and one of our friends, I don't think I'm supposed to say who said it, but said

one of the problems with it is that the the sort of prostrating before administrations thing has always been an

issue. Like they go and they yuck it up with their sources kind of thing and it has a real bad feel to it. Why not

invite real journalist if it's about the first amendment that dinner instead of trying to like hustle to get a good

celebrity at your table? Like that's what the press does. It tries to outdo each other and celebrity gets get real

journalists from across the country and and you know from from small towns and

everywhere else doing things and celebrate them at the dinner. Like that's the kind of thing that that the

sort of the people that really do labor in very difficult circumstances aren't getting the attention when all these

other people are like just like performing in in front of us and sort of sticky. It's it is sort of a let one of

the best lines would let them eat space which was great. That's good. Let them eat

space and I was like gh and I I want you to stop defending it. Just you realize I

was awkward. We get it. We should have given a bunch of money to women and girls. We should have talked about the

inequities. And even even there was the the the the breakthrough awards that Silicon Valley does every year. Another

celebrity fest where the rich people give money to various inundry um scientists and stuff like that. Seth

Rogan made a comment that was really true about rich people and they cut it out of the feed. They cut it out of the

feed. Seth Rogan who's so funny. um that kind of stuff like you can't even like

they can't even make fun of themselves is really um it's a really weird time.

Can I add something else but we're going to move on because we've got a lot to get to including Trump versus Harvard which I'm I know you see you're wearing

a Harvard shirt, Elon's herum obviously Zuck on the stand and a bunch of stuff but just briefly what was super funny is

that the the disconnect is really real and people are trying to figure out a way through it. Um and I went out to

dinner last night. took my mom out to dinner with a bunch of my friends and we're coming out of the restaurant and one of our pivot fans stopped us and um

one of her she worked for Pat Murphy and her boyfriend said I work for Christine Gillibrand and my mom was there in her

wheelchair and my mom sudden goes h like that right because it's Christian Gillan

and the late the woman goes oh you're the fox mother you're the fox mother you're lucky and it was so funny and

tried to get a so so humor is a good way to do it. I know it sounds crazy. We

were in hysterics and mom was even laughing because everyone was doing their little performative part, but it

was actually true. And so the thing I do like about this whole space thing is

humor. Like there's humor here. It's funny, which is funny. Anyway, I just that's the only part they need to like

stand down or shut up. Stand down, laugh at themselves, or shut up. That's my feeling. Anyway, um let's go first

because a very important thing. President Trump has lashed out again at Fed Chair Jerome Powell, saying Powell's termination cannot come fast enough. The

attack comes a day after Powell warned that tariffs could create a challenging scenario for the central bank as it

decides whether to control inflation or support economic growth. I mean, ch that's like the calst thing. Challenging

scenario is like a calm way of saying, you know, man the man the barricades. Let's listen to what Powell said exactly

about the Fed's independence, too, speaking at the Economic Club of Chicago. So, our independence is a

matter of law. Um, Congress has in our statute, we're not removable except for

cause. We serve very long terms, seemingly endless

terms. Um, so it's we're protect protected in the law. So, you know, Congress could change that law, but

there's I don't think there's any danger of that. Fed independence has pretty broad support uh across both political

parties and in in both sides of the hill. So, I think that's not a problem. Pow's term ends in May 2026. Oh god, I'm

so nervous about that. So, he's keeps threatening to fire him and he's done it at the FTC which had a level of

independence and he just does it. Um, obviously he's doing it with everything like whether it's Harvard or we'll get

to that in a second. Um, do you have much confidence in staying power the Fed's independence in the Trump administration? He's doing it at the

Justice Department. Pam Bondi has lost her her ever love and [ __ ] mind, by

the way, speaking of which her appearances this week have been embarrassing. Um, can you talk a little bit about what what happens here?

Because he's hasn't he just runs through stop signs like no problem whatsoever.

Um, I mean, I've just been I have such a inability to predict what's going to

happen here. There's been so many things that have been disqualifying, what I thought were red lines that they've just blown through and people are sort of, I

don't know, seem fairly numb to. But if you want to talk about a move that could

take the market down five or 8,000 points, it's fire chairman pal. Because

the separation of central banks from politics is one of the key stabilizing

factors in the western economy. Because what you have is a group of people who leaders, elected leaders who panic. And

the reason they usually get voted out of office can almost always be reverse engineered to economic strain on the

citizens and a a quick kind of fix or sugar high to get you out of trouble would just be to flood the market or

lower interest rates which might be over the medium or the long term absolutely disastrous. So, western nations, I mean,

I think every western nation through central bank or their fed chair or whatever it is or I just interviewed

Prime Minister Carney. He was the first nonbrit to be the head of the Bank of England. Yeah, he was he's a big deal.

They they all almost from all political persuasions all agree that if we subject

these people to political pressure, it's not it could be disastrous for the economy, right?

because these people have to look at the data and make very important decisions about interest rates that affect currency flows of capital and the

temptation to just put pressure on you know the Fed share and say lower interest rates I need a sugar high right

now I need the markets to go back up whatever it is and then you might end up with crazy inflation or stagflation so

the independence I I don't I think he's going to back down because just the same way he blinked last week when he saw the

10-year spike 50 basis points I I think Someone will say, "You do this. Hold on

tight when the market opens tomorrow at 9:00 a.m." Yeah. Um, so I don't even think it's I think they've decided the

courts will side with them. Who cares? We get a court order to turn around a plane. We got a court order to bring

someone back and we want to claim we can bring Katy Perry back from space, but we can't bring a person we sent incorrectly

to these El Salvador and prisons. By the way, they brought people back initially. They brought back women and some

Venezuelans. So, but I don't think I think the thing that stops him from doing that right

now. Chairman Powell is probably the most respected appointed. He's the most

respected person in the Trump administration right now. If you could call him part of the administration actually. Sure. But let me What is

Powell's termination cannot come fast enough because he his his job terminates

next May, right? Correct. So that is he meaning that what is what is the language here? Termination. I I don't

know. He's threatening to fire him. I don't know what it is. I don't know. You tell me. That's the problem. I mean, saying things like this, by the way, are

so dangerous. Just saying them what he's doing is so ridiculous. Brand toxic uncertainty. Yeah. And like I think

that's exactly the term that's correct. I think Powell is really just like, "Fuck you." Like, "Come at me, sir."

essentially the way he's talking. I think Chair Chairman Powell is is literally he's going to leave he's going

to leave his tenure as someone who pulled us back from CO who uh whose

economic policies the markets set new unprecedented highs. Some people would

probably criticize that little too much partying well or a little too much I

would say policies although you could argue he doesn't control this. The the reason we're in such a crazy corner

right now is because we as Americans, and this is true through Democratic and Republican administrations, are under

the delusion that we can spend 7 trillion uh we can spend $7 trillion a

year while taking in 5 trillion in tax receipts and that everything will be all right. And then we get backed into a

corner where we the whole world owns our debt and they not only are reciprocating with a trade war, they're reciprocating

with a capital war. and that is they just go into the market and sell a disproportionate number of our treasury

bills and the 10-year spikes and all of a sudden we have an additional 175 billion in interest rate payments which

we weren't planning on making. I mean, we have put ourselves in such a vulnerable position because if you think

of the US as a household, we make 50,000 a year in tax receipts. We're spending 70 and we have credit card debt of

370,000. And the scary thing is the kids, despite not spending any of this

money, are really benefiting from it, are going to inherit those credit card bills. Yeah. And everyone has power over

us now. We no longer really own our home. Um, so this is the

Chinese if you Anyways, but back to Chairman Pal. He probably can't wait for

his termination because guess what? He's going to go be chairman of like Bridgewater. No, I don't. I think he is.

I think he's taking his listening to him. I think he's taking his job rather seriously. I think he thinks he's the bull work against this lunatic. Agree.

and he's he's he came out he's one of the few people he's really the first kind of what I'll call leader to just in

a thoughtful methodical way to stand up and say okay just in case you you you

you didn't believe every point of light from every economist or anyone who doesn't have their head up their ass and

is trying to contort themselves into figuring out some way to justify this the the interpretive dance taking place

across podcasters and officials trying to support these tariffs is almost It's

it's it's literally hilarious. It's like modern art that doesn't make any [ __ ] sense, right? And for what? And for

what? Because you know, I was I was thinking as I was walking the other day, like when a especially listen to that

idiot Pam Bondi was it's like, you know, if the Democrats win in two years, you're all super [ __ ] Like super

[ __ ] You have to win in two years. And of course, they think they will through strongarming, but if they what a

risk they're taking because they're going to be investigated out the yingyang and deservedly so. Anyway,

let's move on. Um, Trump's feud, go Jerome Powell, we're on your side. We think you're behaving correctly. Uh,

Trump's feud with Harvard is escalating. The White House is asking the IRS to begin the process of revoking Harvard's

tax exempt status. This is not an easy thing to do by the by the way, but the IRS, because it's under the control of

Donald Trump, is reportedly considering it. The move comes after Harvard declined Trump's demands to scrap DEI

programs and overall hiring, teaching, admissions. It made a ton of changes, by the way. It has made a ton of changes uh

that are probably laudable in many ways. Trump's initial response to Harvard's push back was freezing more than $2

billion in federal funds for multi-year grants and contracts apparently wasn't enough. The Harvard president, Alan

Garber, condemned the Trump administration in an open letter early this week writing, "No government, regardless of which party is in power,

should dictate what private universities can teach, whom they can admit and hire, and which areas of study and inquiry

they can pursue." What do you think? The Harvard fighting back here is really interesting. Let me um give some

statistics. Um uh Harvard is gearing up for this fight financially. They issued

$750 million of taxable bonds last week to shore up liquidity. It does have a $53 billion endowment, but there are

restriction how the money gets spent. Um I see you're wearing a Harvard t-shirt. Uh I can't believe one of the jokes on

on threads was I can't believe we like Harvard again. like we're we're we're backing Harvard here which is sort of

the pinnacle of snoody elitism I think for most people in general. Um but at

the same time this is a real shot across along with MIT Princeton um Colombia of

course caved. So it's a really interesting situation happening here with these schools saying no [ __ ] we've

done enough and showing their work. Now today, for people who don't know, the Trump administration is trying to do

this with no proof whatsoever. Very similar to what they did with the im with the migrants who they sent out of

the country with no proof on any they don't give any proof to their allegations on almost anything they're

doing, no matter what across the spectrum. And in this case, they filed something without any proof that Harvard

did anything wrong. Um, so there's there's several and of course they're hurting funding of really important

research that's going on. Scott. Yeah. It took Donald Trump to get me to like Harvard. Um Yeah. Like you weren't that

t-shirt is handsome. Where'd you get that? Um my assistant got it for me because I I don't know. I just wanted a Harvard t-shirt to wear around. Um I was

strolling around in a Canada t-shirt last week and it was the look, if you

look at the the darkest moment of the last hundred years, there was some key attributes of a move to fascism. Uh one,

they start demonizing people and rounding them up. and it takes on a different complexion. But let's be clear, we have demonized illegal

immigrants, of which we have turned a blind eye to because it's very profitable. And now we're rounding them

up. We're taking them off the street and we're sending them to hellscapes. The other one of the other

key steps is you come for quote unquote the academic institutions and the cultural elite and you demonize them.

And that's what's going on here. So this is, you know, I'm not a fan of these

institutions. I've even suggested their taxfree status be revoked if they have an endowment over a billion dollars and

not growing their freshman class faster. But you're about making bigger, becoming bigger, not to tell them what to do or

how to run. No, I I don't care. They have the right to pick their curriculum. They have the right to pick their faculty. They have the right to talk

about what they want to talk about on campus. I think if you're going to have a law, and be clear, folks, this has

about as much to do with anti-semitism as evangelicals liking Israel. They just

see these that the the notion of anti- putting this under the banner of anti-semitism. They're just using it as

a vessel to go after an ideology and centers that

typically traditionally and right now are not supportive of these types of policies. They and there is is it true

that there's not enough intellectual diversity at these campuses? Sure. But when you start targeting individual

universities and going after quote unquote the cultural elite under the oposes of anti-semitism, it's just it's

not a it's not true and b it's morally corrupt, but more I'll just go to the economic

argument. The funding of research at universities has been the greatest

investment in history. And that is, and I've said this before, that the most

successful venture capitalists in history are middle- class taxpayers who give money to the government and then the government funds research. The

private enterprise can't afford to make these types of tuberculosis, for example, or a a a catalog listing all

things on the internet for academic research. it ultimately ends up becoming a $2 trillion company called Google or

vaccines looking at how mRNA might might be more effective than traditional vaccines or diabetes

medication. Most studies show and then the vessel for this unbelievable investment are universities. Government

funding of university research has proven to be one of the highest ROI public investments with economic impact

studies suggesting returns of get this cara somewhere between 20 at the low p

at the low end 20% and 60% annually on federal research dollars through job

creation new industries and increased productivity in agriculture genetically modified crops food safety technologies

and energy solar panels technology advanced battery companies natur researchers going all week. This is

fantastic. Natural natural gas racking, LED lighting, advanced materials, MOA

and biioentech, hundreds of drugs including Lica, Remisade I think it's called. We did that. The HIV protease

inhibitors the cocktail drugs came out of universities. Janentech was based on

recumbent DNA technology from UCSF and Stanford, Google, smartphones, Cisco

systems. I mean these this is the best. The US does actually a small number of

things better than anyone but we do them really well. People think it's not enough because like they haven't been as

involved in AI and it's been taken up by what happens is private enterprise takes the juicy bits and the parts that are

harder the universities used to do and they used to do no one else funds that sometimes end up being unbelievable lithium ion batteries. It's you don't

have to make this is [ __ ] ridiculous and here it is. Why do you think Harvard decided and [ __ ] this [ __ ] and Colombia

didn't like think about being inside these comp these these places?

Colia has Colombia has literally uh has this this virus of a lack of

leadership right now. I I don't I would argue that Colombia between the response I mean there were two there were two

campuses with protests. President Linda Mills just handled it much differently than the folks at Colombia. And I also

think Columbia, quite frankly, for whatever reason, has been a flash point and has been, you know, unfortunately targeted, whatever you want to call it.

But I do think the reason that Harvard decided to stand up, I think they have more leadership. I think there they're

they have more moral clarity. And quite frankly, it just really helps to have $54 billion endowment. Yeah. 53. Yeah.

It's just this is they can afford to do this. So, and it's also great. It's

great for their brand. Harvard probably this is probably one of the better brand moves of 2025. Yeah. Because they were

sort of the like elite irritants and now they seem like freedom fighters. Yeah. And the president of Harvard unable to

condemn anti- you know anti-semitic speech is hate speech or whatever it is. You know they they've had their hits the last the

last six months. This is absolutely them standing up and doing the right thing

even when it's hard. So we'll see if the IRS will if the IRS does this. It takes years. This is going to go, by the way,

everybody, again, it's going to go through lots of courts with the IRS. They're going to try to do this. It will

be litigated. And by that time, if Donald Trump is lost, the people who are

doing this to Harvard, the IRS are going to be [ __ ] royally at some point. Um,

if they if they make these moves, they think that Donald Trump's going to be in power forever. And that may be, but if

he's not, you're taking a rather large risk that you're not all of you aren't going to jail at some point for what

you're saying is so important and I've been talking to a lot of Democrats. I was on Governor Nuome's podcast yesterday. I think when something that's

missing from the Democratic party, I I don't believe that like this we go when they go low, we go high. I think that's

just like trying to capture social status. I absolutely think we need to get in the mud. And I think there needs

to be a Democrat who basically says, I'm running for president. I'm going to win.

And when I win, I am absolutely targeting I'm going I'm I'm going to have the SEC look into all trading on

April the 9th. I'm going to look at all illegal deportations. I'm going to look at the unlawful seizure of

constitutional power. It's going to be done to the letter of the law. But be

clear, be clear, folks. If you're breaking laws and you're under the impression you're no longer subject to

the law, that might be true for the next, you know, 40, you know, 44 months,

but in 44 months, the law is coming back. The the sheriff is coming back. In

two years, if the Democrats win, this is just I like that even more. In 20 months, let me say it also doesn't help

people. It doesn't bring the price of eggs down. This is what we're doing. This tit for tat. And by the way, this tit fortat is going to be required. They

have to go down. Um, and it's going to waste everybody's time what they're doing here. They're gonna they're going

to do this, they're going to lose, and then they're going to jail, but that it's just it's such a waste of time

and effort. And Harvard could be doing all kinds of really interesting things in research and anyway, this is it's

it's the greatest brand change for Harvard. You're right. I think that's really an important thing. And we'll see if Donald Trump could pull this off. Um,

just because he's going through stop signs right now doesn't mean he can keep doing it or there will not be

consequences later. Um, okay. Let's go on a quick break. When we come back, new details about Elon's creepy harum and

legions of babies. Scott, we're back. And Elon Musk is trying to build an army of super babies with quote, "No romance,

just sperm." It feels like you would have said something like this, Scott. That's from an explosive report in the Wall Street Journal about the tactics he

used to recruit and manage his offspring and their mothers. This romantic hero has even used social platform X to

recruit willing wombs. Uh here's what Jimmy Kimmel had to say about the latest revelations. It is believed that Elon

has fathered at least 14 children and based on this photograph he may have given birth to them, too. He's happy

carrying a few around in his pouch like a kangaroo. Sources told the journal they

believe there could be more mini musks out there. Many more mini Musk. You've

heard of Alien versus Predator? Elon might be both of them. So, another other

another other tibbits from the journal's reporting, and by the way, I've spoken about this with so many reporters. I'm

so glad that they're finally writing about this and not pretending it's just a silly, you know, an ex who's mad at

him. This is really significantly weird stuff and especially since he's in such a position of power. Musk believes

population decline is massive threat and wants uh to make enough babies to quote reach legion level before the

apocalypse. And Musk urged former girlfriend Ashley St. Clair to or I

don't know what she is, I guess girlfriend, to give birth via C-section because he believes that vaginal bursts limit brain size. You remember I was

arguing with him about this given I had a C-section. Scott, uh I Where should we go with this? Where should we go? Where

should we start? I mean, I'm thrilled that reporters are actually doing these things around the drugs, around these

weird weirdnesses around children. um it is really demented in a way that's

really around the bend and it's fine if someone wants to have a lot of kids but this is a whole theory. I think the one

person in this story that didn't get enough [ __ ] is Jared Burchaw who works for him and is his facilitator. He's

happens they wrote about him being a Mormon and he talking about him having such a stable family. Jared if you're

facilitating this you don't get to hide behind your perfect family and your you know that you don't behave like this.

you're just facilitating a rich person behaving badly and um and and

manipulating women um who are having kids. I mean, everything sounds so pathetic and at the very and then I'll

let you go on, Scott, but the children are really what really concerns me here is that these kids are getting

manipulated by Musk in in terms of what they're going to pay the mothers and this and that. Um, you don't need $15

million to do to raise a kid or anything else, but the the the ethical implications of all of this for all of

you who are facilitating this for Musk are rather deep and you should be ashamed of yourselves. Go ahead. Look,

there's a there's a kernel of truth here. Just calling balls and strikes. There was this fear um or this moral

panic around a population explosion that we were going to absorb that our population was growing faster than the

than the earth's resources and we it was going to collapse under population uh growth. What's actually happened is

that bomb has detonated but it's imploded and that is western nations as they become wealthier and more educated

women decide having a lot of kids is a bad deal for them and also men and basically birth rates go down and

evidence has shown that as population has gone up poverty has gone down. It ends up that if you put 10 10 new brains

into society, you know, one is a problem, eight do just fine and one might solve

more problems than those 10 brains create. So population growth is actually really it's a huge problem in Japan. In

South Korea supposedly like only three or four people will have grandkids right now with these birth rates. Now, you can

solve it with thoughtful immigration policies and also restoring a tax code

that doesn't rob from the young and give money to the old such that young people, should they decide to have kids, which

60% did 40 years ago at the age of 30, now it's 27%. So, we can solve for this

problem. I do believe that his basic theory is rooted in something that's

true like having more kids. Now having said that, having said that, if you look

at what I believe uh maybe next to income inequality is the biggest thing threatening the US, it's extremism led

by a group of young men who feel are sequestering from society and becoming shitty to uh citizens. They're not

attaching to work. They're not attaching to school. They're not attaching to relationships. They become prone to misogynistic content. They start blaming

women and immigrants for their problems. They become less likely to believe in climate change. And what if they don't

have a relationship or work by the time they're 30, the levels of substance abuse and self just go crazy. Just go

crazy. That is a hu struggling young men in this country is a huge threat to our

society. Wrote a book about it out in November. There you go. What? Now, if you were to reverse engineer it to the

the point of failure where a boy with a lot of potential comes off the tracks,

you might say, "Well, the prefrontal cortex doesn't mature as quickly." Well, the education system is biased against them. They're twice as likely to be

suspended on a behavior adjusted. There's a lot of things. They've been told for 40 years that they're the the

oppressor, and they're starting to believe it. They have big tech trying to sequester them from society with

gambling and porn. They have a lot of things going against them, but the number one point of failure to be

reverse engineered to is when they they lose a male role

model. The worst thing or one of the worst things you can do as a man or let

me put it this way, the best thing you can do is to stay involved in your kid's life. He's no he's not around. And

what's interesting is that when you have a single parent household, which he is creating, he's creating 14 single parent

households. He doesn't have 14 kids, he has 14 single parent household, more kids than that, I think. And what's interesting is that the daughters in

single parent households have similar outcomes as dual parent households. And I'm not saying girls don't need their

dad, but if you look at high school and college attendance and rates of self harm, they're not material materially

different in single parent households and duel. It is an entirely different story for boys. And what it ends up is

that while boys are physically stronger, they're mentally and emotionally much weaker. But him creating a series a a a

cadra of children that don't have their dad around, even if he sends checks,

that is bad for society. But he also Scott, two things. He uses checks as the control point by the way. And secondly,

it's I listen, there's a pronatalist movement going on obviously and he's part of this. They're not he's talking

about smarter people and and that reads to me white people essentially, right? I

don't think he thinks all people are equal. Well, it's almost as if he'd give a Nazi salute, right? Yes. Exactly. Who

knows who does that? Or that his dad started banging his stepdaughter. I

mean, is that right? Level of this his stepdaughter, I think. Yeah, correct. Um, but here's the thing. It's about

white people, more white people. That is or more people he considers smart, which is I think thought of that. Is he only

procreating with other with other white women? I guess that there's a there's a a someone he didn't know online named

Tiffany Fong, I believe, she's Asian, but that's but but here's the thing. He thinks his genes are smart. So, who

isn't smart where there are population increases? Brown people. That's what they're that is what he is doing here.

So I agreed. Listen, nobody believes in kids more than me. Like I for like I'm

not the Elon Musk of lesbian. But you're openly lesbian. You are openly lesbian. At

least you could be closeted. At least you could drive your Subaru with blackout windows being so openly

straight. At least you could hide that German Shepherd times. Anyway,

um, so he did, you know, but nonetheless, he thinks there are smart people and dumb people and all the smart

people are not. You know, that's this has a racial element to it. Let's But I just want to go back to openly lesbian.

Let me ask you this. Is it true that on all dates with lesbians, they hug for three hours, cry, and then decide never

to see each other again. Is that true? No. Is that true? No. Okay. You know what? Me and my You're coming to Lesbians who tech this year, and we're

going to I went I went three years ago. I'm doing it again, and this year we're going to kill you. I took my shirt off and the whole audience was like, I made

the right choice. Literally, every woman in the crowd's like, I did make the right choice seeing me my shirt off. I

was the second straight guy to ever be on the stage. First with Mark Benny off. Anyway, Elon, you are a sick puppy. I

have to tell you, one sick puppy. And I feel bad for these women. I feel bad for these kids. And the story was terrific.

The the journal the that the journal's doing it um is amazing. I have to say I

told oh a half a dozen top reporters about this Ashley Stlair to to like this

was really weird what was happening and nobody followed it and the journal did a really good job. I have to I have to give them credit. It is not puran. It's

they it's a really along with their board coverage of how they party with him along with um his strange behaviors.

I think the journal is doing amazing journalism here as is Christian Grind of the New York Times who was previous. I

think it's important though that we bring this back to me. Okay. Um, so I have more kids likely, substantially

more kids than Elon Musk. You know why? Oh, right. Because you gave We know this. We've talked about this sperm

donor. Yeah. I could get 40 bucks a shot because I was a quoteunquote athlete at UCLA. Anyways, I got called back four

times a week for a full year and I couldn't figure it out cuz the two guys I went with were the two guys I went

with were literally blonde gods. They were they were water polar players who went to the Olympics. They were smarter

than me. These guys were specimens Jewish. You've said the story. That's right. And I said, "Why do I have the

golden seed here?" And they said, "You have the two things, baby. My man gravy is like literally it's like Nvidia

chips." Anyways, the two things, the reason why my sperm was literally an

Hermes bag. I was the Hermes of sperm was two things. What are the two things that people in West LA parents want in

their sperm? Tall Jewish babies. Tall and Jewish. I had the peanut butter and chocolate of sperm donation. There are

Scott Galloways all over. Can you imagine how many receding hairlines are out there right now? I don't want to know. I don't even want to know. I don't

even want to know. Thank God. Not my children. Anyway, um here's an idea. three depressed people. They didn't test

me for that [ __ ] All right, that I you know, I didn't pick someone because they he had a history of depression in his family. Anyway, here's an idea. There's

some hot new real estate about uh 120 light years from Earth where Elon could go. Researchers announced on Tuesday

that they've discovered a massive planet known as K2 18b. I'm going to call it Galloway. Um whose atmosphere suggests

the possible presence of living organisms. It's really hot and wet. That's really pretty much what's happening. Don't say anything. Don't say

I know. Don't say anything. Anyway, um just really quickly, Nvidia says it will start producing AI supercomputers

manufactured entire in the US. The announcement comes conveniently after reports of upcoming tariffs. We'll see.

The company plans to use $500 billion of infrastructure in the US via manufacturing partners over the next year. They all say 500 billion. They

Apple did this. They've commissioned over 1 million square feet of manufacturing space to build chips in Arizona. They're working with Foxcon and

Taiwan's Wistron on additional plants in Texas, of course. Um, and then Trump said all the necessary permits will be

expedited and delivered. They're trying to appease Trump or or I'm sure he'll still screw them on tariffs. Jensen Wong

said made a surprise visit to Beijing to meet with Chinese trade officials as follows. In Nvidia is revealing on Wednesday it's taking a 5.5 billion hit

thanks to new US restrictions on the exports of its H20 chips to China. Uh,

the shares have been plunging very quickly. Thoughts on the planet or Nvidia? and nothing other than that this

all of this stuff announcing investment is performative thinking he's an idiot if we just repackage existing

investments he'll go for it and he'll potentially leave us alone and the stocks are now trading based on the

prediction markets of the mad king I mean this is just not the way to run an economy they they weren't going to do

this before and you know just this you know you can force manufacturing back in the US but it will have a price later um

if it's not economic that's just the way it goes unfortunately All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Zuck

taking the stand and how much he was willing to pay and uh to get the antitrust case to go away. Scott, we're

back with more headlines. There's lots going on. Mark Zuckerberg has taken the witness stand for three days in Meta's antitrust trial this week over its

acquisition of Instagram and WhatsApp. Also, Cheryl Samberg was also on the stand. If the FTC wins, Meta could be

forced to sell off the app. Some highlights. years before the FDT sued Meta under the Trump administration.

Zuckerberg considered having Instagram be its own company to avoid antitrust issues. Meta tried to buy Snapchat for

six billion which actually I think I broke that story at the time. He thinks it would have been bigger now if it accepted the offer. Zuckerberg had of

course it then copied Snap everything Snapchat did in they it's buyer Barry

really and Barry was the choice that unfortunately Snapchat had to face. Zakarun once had a crazy idea to wipe

out all Facebook users friends. Uh to start again, the Meta CEO called Tik Tok the highest competitive threat for

Facebook and Meta. If it were up to Zuckerberg, this trial never would have happened. Too bad, Mark. He offered uh

the FDC $450 million, which is laughable. Um later upping the amount to 1 billion, but the offer was well below

the 30 billion the FTC wanted. This is under uh its current um chair, Andrew

Ferguson. You got a set there. Ferguson. Uh Zuckerberg reportedly felt confident

President Trump would back him. Uh obviously he didn't. It allowed it to go forward. Um it's not the strongest case

as we've talked about and this idea of who its competitor is in in the in the then it's a strong case in the now. It's

not as strong a case and everybody has shifted from social media to entertainment in a lot of ways. Social

media in the with a stress on media not on social. Um, so G give me is there

this ask kissing doesn't work. Give me one of your crazy ideas, Scott, here on this trial. Well, I I just think that if

they're So there's different remedies. One is a fine, which it looks like they're pursuing right now if they're found guilty of monopolistic behavior

and certain consent decrees also along with the fine. By the way, nine out of 10 people in the world outside of China

are on a Meta app. um if not I think it's either every day or every week and

they have 70% share of social media. Now that alone

isn't isn't illegal. What's illegal is if you're using that 7% 70% share to uh

deploy monopoly pricing that's bad for consumers and I would argue or engage in

anti-competitive behavior. And if you look at the notes that have come out in discovery, a big justification for acquiring Instagram is he said we need

to neutralize a competitor. That right there, that statement, that's illegal. That you're not allowed to acquire a

company to neutralize a competitor. You're not allowed to do a tails. In addition, what I always like to appeal

to people's greed glands on this. If they were forced as a remedy to spin Instagram, you know who wins and

WhatsApp and WhatsApp too and WhatsApp. You know who wins here? Shareholders. Mhm. Because the company right now it

trades at a really healthy multiple of 7.7x times revenues. Instagram on its

own I think would trade at 15 to 20 times revenues. Instagram just to give you you were at my birthday in Scotland.

Scotland is overrun because a bunch of Instagrammers went there and went crazy

talking about Scotland two summers ago. Instagram now dictates global tourism

patterns. You see it happen in Los Angeles and parts of your neighborhood. people take a picture in front of Oh, if

we went to my window right now, we would see three or four Asian women. Yeah.

With their Hermes bags in my on my cobblestone street taking pictures of one another. It is literally one area

where they're all taking. You talk about commerce. You talk about I mean that Instagram is an independent company.

Yeah. Everyone would want to own that stock. So shareholders would do better. I would buy that stock. In addition, the

competition here would lower rents. And specifically, I've argued that the rents that have gone up here are the biggest

rent increase has been non-economic. Think about the rents that parents have had to pay because of the monopoly

control of Meta. So the fact that they wouldn't compete and coordinate with core Facebook, the

fact that WhatsApp would probably be the largest telco in the world and rather than being a vessel for finding data for

better targeting for fa the core platform Facebook or Instagram, they would have to figure out a way just to

be the largest telco and start charging money. I think sher if they announced they were breaking up these companies, I

would buy meta stock because I think that ultimately shareholders would win more tax revenue. By the way, employees

win because there's more companies trying to rent your labor. Employees win, tax revenue,

shareholders win. The only person that doesn't win is the person who wants to sit on the iron throne of all seven

realms, not just Westeros. But I I I've always thought the be the two best

things you could do to oxygenate the global economy are if China and the US kissed and made up. We have IP, they

have manufacturing enough already. Let's lower everyone's costs by getting along again. And obviously, President Trump

does not get that. And then the second biggest way to oxygenate and unleash the global economy would be to take Amazon,

Apple, Facebook, and Meta and go from four companies to 15. It would create,

it would unleash so much competition and innovation and innovation, new things,

innovation, innov Tesla. I'm like, their car sucks

and it's not innovative. Did you see the Japanese stuff that's coming out? The EVs are so adorable and fantastic. I

just keep thinking why didn't any why didn't Tesla do this like why didn't they had the anyway well that's

another because he's having lesions of babies and taking ketamine apparently but and running the government into the

ground um but you're right you're absolutely right we'll see what happens here people find this to be a very weak case though because the the limits of

who they're it doesn't address what's happening now which is intense

competition in this in the social media space again as I said emphasis on media

he's trying to get away from the social part of it, by the way, which is really interesting because people aren't doing

what Facebook was originally intended for anymore. Now they're like consuming just like they did television. It's

really there has been a shift, don't you think? Don't you find you you're using social media for consumption more than

declaration or friendship. Now, I gotta be honest, I'm addicted to both Instagram and to Tik Tok and

consumption. You like looking at it, right? Well, honestly, it's now my news source.

I get really good I Tik Tok has figured out I want to see an economist talking about interest rates or a woman talking

about social issues that forgot to put her bra on. Those are the two that's how my feed that's how my feed was economist

putting his bra on. And then that's good. That's good. he's or

uh chiropractors aggressively adjusting people or of course it's amazing like oh

my god she has neck pain oh my god what is he going to do and then all of a sudden you hear celery and she's like I

can walk again I can walk again I love that oh my god and I see great danes

they like sick they have figured out I love great danes I could watch great dance all day and my also have you seen

the new ones where some chef Yeah will take like a $300 Chateau bion. Yeah. And

line up three dogs at a table. What? And then show them the chateau bion. And then literally this chef will will cook

it in front of them and get in front of them and then slice it for them and create some amazing sauce and then just

feed these three pit bulls this amazing that's end times. That's that's worse

than killing. Maybe it's late stage capitalism, but it sure is entertaining. Oh wow. Oh my gosh. I watch I do on

threads a thing called food porn, which I love, which is they just cook [ __ ] all over the place. I love cooking videos.

Anyway, we got to get back to the important things. I I'm not sure where this this case is going, but it sure has

a lot of cool emails um of them acting like [ __ ] all of them. Like, we're going to kill this company. We're going

to do this. This is exactly how they talk in reality, and it's just very entertaining to But one of the things

that's coming out of it is how much Mark Zuckerberg doesn't like his actual business, the social part of social media. That's been really interesting to

me. There was a big announcement this week. I think the biggest story that people haven't been talking about

um is OpenAI deciding they might get into social. Yeah, we were going to talk about that next week. We're talking

because we we'll see. I think they're just tweaking. They love to tweak everyone. But yes, they could do that too. Again, consumption consumption of

videos. That's where they're going to go. I mean, the creation and the creativity of people with this stuff. Um

this is just in, by the way. A federal judge has ruled that Google did act illegally to maintain a monopoly in

online advertising technology. The judge said in a ruling that Google had broken the law to build its dominance. No [ __ ]

Sherlock. The Justice Department in a group of states had sued Google, arguing that its monopoly in ad technology

allowed the company to charge higher prices and take a bigger portion of the sale. Yes, because they're on both sides

of the deal, everybody. Remember, a federal judge ruled in August, a separate federal judge, that the company

had a monopoly in online search. He is now considering a request by the Justice Department to break the company up, spin

parts off. Um Google's I this is a much stronger case and it is so obvious the

dominance of Google in both advertising and search and their behaviors around this. Um uh it's really interesting and

of course Sundar was at the inauguration. It doesn't seem to be helping. Now a lot of these cases were started in the previous Trump

administration. Again I cannot underscore this. Um so thoughts thoughts on this one? This one's stronger and and

they've lost. They've clearly lost. They This will go on. They will appeal, but they've lost again. Once again, I like I

said, I just I think everybody wins if these companies start to I think their share price goes up. I I don't know what

to say other than that. Although I I was more cynical about antitrust under a Trump administration. And Jonathan

Caner, who knows a lot more about this than me, sent me straight and said, "You're underestimating some of the people who are at justice in the FDC."

Yeah. the person who replaced him is very well Gail I think it's Sla Sla Slaughter or Slater um is very well

respected. She's a JD Vance person from the JD Zance side of the aisle who has been very antirust focused. Um great

respect for people like in terms of they understand. Here's the thing everybody less competition less innovation higher

prices shittier products. I I that's the way it goes. And the fact that these

company and by the way the the side effects of both these companies for their dominance in both social media and

advertising and search which is linked to they're all linked to advertising is the death of regular media. They have

two of these two companies have run over. Now look media old media has done a lot of things to kill itself but this

is not that the the hollowing out of the business model by these companies using these tactics has been right in there to

really hurt these companies. So that's another that's another uh you know delletterious effect of these things. So

there you go. There you go. Anyway, we'll be right back and we'll get to predictions. Okay, Scott, let's hear a

prediction. What's a prediction from you? Um besides children of Scott all over Southern California, you may know

this. Are you creating a legion of babies? Well, you know, you can there's now a website. If you go to it, you can

type in your name and say, "This is the clinic I donated." Yes, I know all about it. and they send you a certified thing,

certified mail, and if you sign it, an email goes out to all your biological children saying, "This is your biological father." I would do it if you

could gate it. And you can't. And the problem is you don't know if it's absolutely going to do this now. So I

can meet all of Scott's children. Well, that's why I don't do 23 and me because people could figure it out. But I don't know if I have two kids or 2,000 because

it wasn't regulated back then. So you have like hundreds of kids. You remember the Vince Fawn movie where he had My mom

told you this. My mom made me stop because she said she said, "I put my I'm not exaggerating. I paid for my junior

year at UCLA doing this. I wonder how many kids." And my mom said, "You need to stop." And her rationale was, "What

if your son ends up marrying your daughter?" Oh my god. That's the typical fear thing. The fear thing. I know. But

anyways, she had a real point. She's like, "You're going to go up in LA and you're going to come and you're going to

meet Anyways, but it's it's a weird it's a weird thought. I've thought about

maybe like I don't know leaving him some money when I die or something like that. But anyways, I I I know I've used those

sites because I' I saw other how many other kids my sons are related to um

through that. Make for a fun party. Think about what an awesome party I would throw for 238 year olds that all

sort of look like me. That would be a fun party, wouldn't it? I feel like I want to go find all your children and

apologize and give them a documentary Searching for Scott. Oh, let's start a podcast network. Yes. Let's start a Vox

Media podcast with just our children. Why is Oh my god, that's so [ __ ] up.

So [ __ ] up. Let's hear a prediction. Anyways, sorry. I predict this would be disastrous and then they could marry all

of Elon Musk's kids. Anyway, sorry. I'm stop. I'll stop. So, anyways, the Okay,

prediction. The I think my prediction is the following, Cara. I think the worm has turned. I think that my sense is

that the things that have kept Republicans quiet because of their dear leader has more power in this cult that

where he can get vote them out of office. The fear factor of saying I'll weaponize the DOJ against my enemies.

Donald Trump, I'm not comparing him to Hitler, but Hitler's biggest mistake that reshaped the world was he decided

to open a second front in the war and he declared war on Russia. That is we probably would have had to come to some

sort of agreement with him where he got Europe and Britain got the empire or whatever. But that is what kind of lost

the war was in addition to British brains, Russian blood and American

brawn, Russian blood, they they sacrificed 20 million people and they

were allies at the beginning of the war. Trump has decided to fight everyone

all at once. He's not he's not going after targeted tariffs against against

China or figuring out if there's certain tariffs that that on on dairy that are

not reciprocal or asymmetric. He's not saying to the EU, we need we need you to

pay more for our NATO. He's just declared war on everyone all at once.

And it is literally the only we had to ally with dozens of countries to get

Hussein out of Kuwait. But this guy's under the impression he can declare war on everyone. And it it does feel like

declare war on everyone, doesn't it? Everyone all at once. Whether it's Harvard or Kajakistan, he's just

declared war on everyone. Yeah. And they're going to be very creative. Getting any and strike back. They're

just going to be very creative and strike back. Anyways, the I think the worm has turned. I think that so many

public company CEOs who wake up in the morning and say, "Hello, Mr. President." That think that someday they're going to

be drafted because of their incredible leadership skills to run for president. Let me save you three classes at a

business school on ethics, um, leadership, and sustainability. Ethics is like, think about what the

right thing is. Leadership is do the right thing even when it's really hard. And sustainability is doing the right

thing when it's really hard. You might actually make money. There, you don't need to take those three classes. You're about to see, I believe, some very

high-profile business leaders and Republicans come out in the next week or two and say, "This is just bad." And

they're going to get a ton of attention. Not one. I don't I I can't think of a Fortune 500 CEO who is who has spoken

out. I can't think of a Republican who has really taken a stand here. And the

person I am reminded of is a guy named Martin Nimler. And he was essentially uh

he was a prominent Lutheran pastor in Germany in the 20s and early 30s. He sympathized for me right that guy.

That's exactly right. Very well well done. He sympathized with many Nazi ideas and supported radically right-wing

political movements. But after Hitler came to power in 33, Nuller became an outspoken critic of Hitler's

interference in the Protestant church. He spent the last eight years of Nazi rule uh in prisons and concentration

camps. And Nim Müller is perhaps best remembered for his post-war statement which begin which begins first they came

for the socialists and I did not speak out and his full quote is first they

came for the socialists and I did not speak out because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists

and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because

I was not a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak for

me. I mean that is really powerful and what I would argue I have a lot of faith in America over the medium and the long

term. We get it wrong in the short term a lot but over the medium and long term we demonstrate tremendous generosity and leadership. And I think we're at a point

where people realizing that, okay, a guy with the wrong tattoo who gets basically

rounded up a university or the cultural elite that are targeted under [ __ ]

narratives of anti-semitism coming after uh

weaponizing the DOJ against your political enemies. I think the school is

about to rise up against the bullies. I think we are although Scott in the short term like Chris Krebs had to leave his

business has to leave his company because he got targeted by Trump in his there's been Cara there's been damage is

there's been uncalculable economic and moral damage here and loss of brand equity and a loss of moral authority. I

don't I'm not in any way assuming this will repair everything. What I'm suggesting is the following. There is

now it is so obvious how damaging this is. Republicans showing up to their town

halls and literally getting just absolutely ravaging continues. Although there's so much hostility towards her,

it's really fascinating from some Democrats. But I think you're going to see in the next one or two weeks a cadra

of Fortune 500 CEOs, Republicans stand up, business leaders

stand up and say, "Okay, enough already. While you all claim he's playing 4D chess, at this point we're worried he's

going to start eating the pieces. This guy is making the stupidest decisions.

And the first person I I'm I love Nike. I just do a lot of work with Nike. I'm I'm I'm going to call I don't know if

Call me back. I'm going to call Elliot Hill the CEO today. The biggest opportunity right now in the commercial consumer world is for the CEO to

weaponize their creativity and their agency and to come out against this [ __ ] and say this is

anti-American. This is not part of our values. This is not what it means to be an American. Someone Yeah. Someone in

the Fortune 500 is going to come out and say, "This is bullshit." And guess what?

The people who actually have the money to buy this [ __ ] are going to think, "You know what? I like this swoosh." Again, I like your prediction. I hope

it's true. I They made Harvard he's made Harvard likable again. Yeah. And you know, interesting. Josh Shapiro, who got

attacked on Passover, his his house, who's the governor of Pennsylvania, Trump has yet to call him, which is

really an astonishing thing. Of course, if it was a if there was a Tesla in the in the driveway, he certainly would call it terrorism. Um, but of course, he's

not. Yeah. He wanted to label people throwing [ __ ] at Tesla's an act of domestic terrorism. Also, Pam Bond, but

the governor of Pennsylvania, someone tries to burn his house down with him in it on during Pass. I mean, but but oh,

we're just going to keep that. We're just going to ignore that. Anyways, I I like to think that all of a sudden a

bunch of leaders in the Republican party and in the business world are reaching down and fighting these spherical things

called testicles. Marco Rubio keeps making stupid arguments. They're trying to administration guy who's in El

Salvador with no proof. People in the administration are they're they're they've they've signed up for the deer

leader pack. They're in they're in the cult. They're like, "Okay, maybe maybe I disagree with Jim Jones, but I came down to Guyana. I'm going to drink the

Kool-Aid. Yeah. I'm talking about Fortune 500 CEOs and I'm talking about even some some Republican Congress

people. This has gotten so out of control and and they're going to do it out of greed. The first consumer brand

that stands up and says, "I am standing up to this." The first Republican that stands up and says, "Okay, come for me.

This is insane." especially in a district where like in Kentucky where Canada being more strategic is like no

let's just not do blanket tariffs let's go after red states. I mean this I do

think anyway my long-winded way of saying my prediction is the worm has turned and we're going to see people who

supposedly were part of the cult the Fortune 500 which has been visibly absent. They're going to remember that's

going to this guy's quote, you know, first they came first they came for the

socialists, right? Okay. Be clear folks. Everyone could get this knock on the

door. And I do think the worm has turned. I think there is economic incentive now to come out against this

[ __ ] And you know who provided cloud cover for it? Chairman Powell. Yes, he does. But we'll see. We'll see. I from

your mouth to all your leaders. You're cynical, you know, or you don't think you're I don't know. I don't I think it'll take longer than you think it'll

be more damaging. I think he will have damaged and wrecked people's lives and in the process. Oh, I think that's already happened. Yeah, I think he's

going to keep doing it. I think until until the midterms and if the Democrats win, he's in for a world of pain for the

rest of his life. Um elsewhere in the Scott and Car universe, uh Scott, you just had a big interview with Canada's

new prime minister Mark Carney. Very nice get. You chatted about a lot of things including Canada's role in

changing world and whether the US uh Canada relationship can be fixed as trade tensions rise. Obviously Scott is

a particular friend of Canada and they love us there. Um let's listen to a clip. You know from a Canadian

perspective we are willing to take the price to restructure our economy in a different direction. It's been such a

sense of I mean the word that's used is betrayal. So you know we signed a deal.

We've had this partnership. We observe it in good faith. We set up businesses. We, you know, we know lots of American.

We like Americans. We listen to American podcasts. And all of a sudden, you know, we get these uh, you know, these attacks

is which is the way these this is viewed is okay. So, it's going to cost us for a period of time uh, and we'll build out

and build with others. What a nice voice he has. He's a very impressive guy. He

was he was asked to be again the first nonbrit to head the Bank of England. I asked him, I thought the nicest part of the podcast, I asked him in a lightning

round, I said, "If you could go back and speak to someone who's not with us anymore, who would it be and what would

you say?" And he paused and he said, "My dad." And I would tell him I love him. Oh, wow. It was really a nice moment.

Oh, Scott, you probably weep, didn't you? Oh my god. Well, he got emotional. Made me feel very emotional. He's a

really he's an impressive, by the way. Incredible turnaround in Canada for the Liberals. like this this this weird

little conservative was going to win and now he looks like you know who but I mean Trump Trump is is literally toxic

for the entire world right now the most elegant way to reduce everyone's prosperity but in terms of popularity

he's taken Claudia Sham bomb above 80% incredible incredible I mean everyone is

rallying against this guy we'll see if he wins we'll see but anyway that looks like that's the case um okay that's the

show and that was a good interview Scott I listened to it was terrific okay that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe

to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out. Today's show is produced by Laren Neon, Zoe

Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Tat engineered this episode. Jim M edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Bros,

Miss Aario, and Dan Chalon. Nishak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcast. Make sure you subscribe to the

show wherever you listen to podcast. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at

nymag.com/pop. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Then they came for me and

there was no one left to speak for me.