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pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
00:02:08
This is the show where we unpack our old episodes from our 2018 suitcase plus case updates.
00:02:14
Today we're rewinding to episode 102, which we named Decompressions. This episode originally came out on January 4th, 2018.
00:02:23
All right, let's get into it. The intro of episode 102. Hi. Hi. And welcome to Do You Know What Our Favorite Murder Is. We just ran up a new name for a podcast. Do you know what I was saying? No. Do you need a ride? We can start over. Sorry. No, leave it. I was going to say how it feels like it's been a while.
00:02:50
It's been, oh no, sorry. That's quite a vacation. My favorite murder. Jesus Christ.
00:02:58
Like, I haven't done that one in a while either. It's not like I've been. I only have one podcast now.
00:03:03
So if I had gotten it wrong, I would have been a. That would have been really hurtful.
00:03:06
Yeah. How is it just having your one podcast? I feel so free. What's your next podcast going to be?
00:03:14
I'm just going to do something with more homework even. I'm just going to do something where all I do is homework.
00:03:20
That's a good idea. Just quiet pencil, pencil on paper sound. Just constant work, working.
00:03:26
Like more of an SMR. Yeah. I don't ever think I'm saying that right, but. But I have to actually do the work, so I have even less time to do anything.
00:03:34
Good idea. Yeah. Should you just go into some like math, like long division? Like where would you leave off in math?
00:03:40
What would you like to get back to in math? I mean, I don't even know the basics.
00:03:45
Addition? I can do that. You could do some basic addition? Yeah, yeah. I saw a really cool video about how, and from what I remember, it said people, I think in Japan, do multiplication of long numbers.
00:03:58
Yeah. And it was like, it looked like they were making a tic-tac-toe box. Did you see that video?
00:04:04
Yeah. And what drives me crazy about it is that it's that thing of like, people learn in different ways.
00:04:10
We don't all have this one way of learning. I'm sorry, I'm mad at the public school system.
00:04:15
Because they haven't adapted to anything modern? Because I didn't get it. And so then I was stupid instead of like that. Maybe I just needed to learn in a different way.
00:04:24
Right. Like how to either a a better teacher be a better approach. Right. Or better. You know, I think nowadays they have a lot more. What's the word?
00:04:33
Montessori shit. No. And I went to Montessori. I did, too. Oh, my God. It didn't work for you.
00:04:40
I mean, work in what way? I learned how to I learned how to wash my feet at the washing feet station.
00:04:44
there was a washing feet station where were you the old west i just remember like there's like the chalks chalk station and the this station and that and
00:04:55
then there was like a bucket and you could go outside and wash your feet that is so weird now
00:05:00
that i'm talking about it i didn't need to talk to my sister about this were you this is in irvine
00:05:06
yeah did you have goats no oh were there any was there any reason to have a bucket besides children's
00:05:12
dirty feet. Was your teacher a germaphobe? Probably. I think she must have had an issue with
00:05:19
dirty children's feet. Why were your shoes off? I don't know. Again, I'm figuring out right now
00:05:28
that this is weird. And I want to text my sister and make sure I have this memory correct. I'm
00:05:32
calling Janet. Call Janet and ask her right now. I told you how I was supposed to go to therapy
00:05:37
with my mom. Yeah. Did I tell you that I gave her the wrong day? And she showed up like two days
00:05:46
early. Was she pissed? No, it was fine. We ended up making up anyways. Well, that's good. Yeah. I
00:05:54
mean that what counts Yeah Do you think that subconsciously you may have done that so you didn have to do it Definitely Yeah yeah yeah Don you think A hundred percent That usually why I do stuff like that
00:06:05
And now it's so overt to me that I might as well just be like, I'm not going to be there
00:06:09
probably. Hey, let's meet. I've done it to you a thousand times, but that's not normally, that's not I don't want
00:06:17
to be there. I have to talk my way out of this. Yeah. But normally that's just, I can't get that fucking calendar on my phone to do the right thing.
00:06:26
Right. I can't ever do it. Yeah. It's a tricky little fucker. It goes backwards in time.
00:06:32
Have we talked about this? It makes me crazy. You had a recommendation, didn't you?
00:06:39
Oh, you know, we got Stephen. Stephen pulled this, the email for us. in reference to vis-a-vis episode 100.
00:06:51
Hey, y'all. Includes everyone and their goddamn animals. First off, love the show.
00:06:57
Been listening since after episode three. Went to the live show in Austin. Used to play poker with David Temple for two years.
00:07:03
This is after he allegedly murdered his wife. Yep. Wow. I'm also obsessed with the yogurt shop murders.
00:07:09
Anyway, so that's not even what this is about. Okay. Karen said an asteroid came three miles from it.
00:07:16
Oh, no. You can just say no more. Just don't even say anything else. It's so good.
00:07:24
Three miles. As you say that, I'm like, that's impossible. No. Three miles? Here's the thing.
00:07:31
And some people get very pissed off about this. We just fucking say whatever. We just say shit.
00:07:36
We just say whatever and then clean up the mess after. Some people are very bothered by that.
00:07:41
but man that's funny i how far up is like the ozone i don't know but it's probably more than
00:07:48
three miles and as you said it on the podcast then i was like okay uh-huh and then the minute
00:07:53
that came out of your mouth i was like no just now but not i don't question you no until someone
00:07:58
else questions you that that's my whole act is it's just very believable bullshit yeah and who
00:08:06
am I to question? I mean, who are you of all people to question me? The queen of Spain.
00:08:12
Okay. I don't even know math. How am I going to know how many three miles is? You and your
00:08:15
dirty bucket feet. Never question me. Okay. Okay. No, go ahead. To this day, I can't go
00:08:21
barefoot. You know I have a barefoot issue? Yeah, that's right. What did fucking village
00:08:26
Montessori do to me? What did they do to your feet? Who was on the bottom of that bucket?
00:08:31
who hurt my feet scrubbing your feet oh ew ew sorry back to the asteroid okay anyway karen said
00:08:39
an asteroid came three miles from hitting the earth but sorry asterix pushes up nerd glasses
00:08:45
but it was a three mile wide asteroid that came 6.4 million miles i think that sounds more right i'm gonna go with her whatever she said does that sound better i'm
00:08:57
On her side. Quite. Oh, you're being sexist by assuming it's a female scientist.
00:09:02
I'm being pro-sexist. That's right. Finally, proactive sexism. Quite a bit of a difference, but I get it.
00:09:09
Live your sexy life like an asteroid is about to straight up murder us all. This would be great for Corrections Corner.
00:09:17
You're so right about that. All the best and lots of love, Brian. That's rad. Brian.
00:09:24
Brian the girl? No. He also has a second name in the middle that's also a boy's name.
00:09:31
Okay. So I can confirm Brian is a boy. Well, I am not sexist, so I thought it was a woman.
00:09:38
I thought it was my daughter. That is so goddamn funny. That is great. It felt right.
00:09:46
Yeah. Is he mansplaining asteroids to us, though? Well, clearly we need it. He's explaining.
00:09:51
I'm sorry. I meant to say explaining. He's planesplaining it to us. He's just explaining.
00:09:55
just apostrophe splainin straight up splainin that's my new podcast where people splain shit to me oh that's good straight up you just introduce it yeah get the
00:10:07
idea going and then just let other people talk about the facts hey explain this to me i have
00:10:12
never realized how consistently wrong i can be up until this point it's a real humbling experience
00:10:19
Like through the podcast? Yeah. Yeah. But I wonder, in your daily life now, do you question yourself?
00:10:28
Oh, every moment. As you're hypothesizing boldly? But I don't. I mean, like, usually if somebody stands there and goes, no, actually, that's not true, I'll go, oh, okay.
00:10:39
Because at this point, I can't really argue it. Yeah. It's happened so many times.
00:10:43
Yeah. I'll be like, oh, all right. You know. You don't go, are you sure? Oh, sometimes I'll do that.
00:10:50
And sometimes I can see it in my mind's eye. I can see the headline in my head. It says three miles away.
00:10:57
But that's also my ADD from being on Twitter too much and reading articles. I just read four words in the headline of an article.
00:11:06
Karen, I can't do Twitter anymore. Because it's just killing it. Is it driving you crazy?
00:11:10
It's awful now. It's really, I just can't do it anymore. It's making me really depressed.
00:11:15
It's very depressing. My problem is it's where all my friends are. Many, many of my friends that I talk to the most are there, as tragic as that is to say out loud.
00:11:27
So maybe you just can have conversations, but I just like read shit. No, yeah, it's, I don't, I try not to read that much.
00:11:34
Okay. And when I do, I do it inaccurately. Okay. Yeah. Well, I mean. Listen, if it's working for you.
00:11:41
Look, I like it. Look and listen, if it's working for you. No, but I will say this for resolutions.
00:11:47
I don't know if you're comfortable doing some resolutions right now. No, I dig it.
00:11:50
But as we say this because part of why I think all that was just so funny to me is because I haven really talked to another person in like three days except for texties I just been sitting on my couch watching British people solve crime for like 72 straight hours
00:12:09
And I have to stop doing it. Go bless you. I have to. Oh, is that driving you crazy?
00:12:14
Yeah, I have to leave my house. I have to give the world a try. Like I have to do things.
00:12:23
Here's the thing. You've already done that. Yes or no? True. It's failed you. It's been bad.
00:12:28
B. Failed you. B. You've been sick. Yes or no? Yes. Very sick. C. You just spent like two weeks with family members, constantly and friends.
00:12:38
That's right. You're having a decompression. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for walking me out of that darkness.
00:12:43
Yeah. But you know what? My decompressions go on too long. Yeah. And then, yeah, and then I'm just in the weirdest and just too weird of a place.
00:12:53
But I would also say that I've been on a six year decompression that needs to wrap itself up relatively quickly.
00:13:01
Can we start on Friday? OK. Can we say Friday? Write that down in your. How about Friday at 11?
00:13:07
And then we have that phone call at 1130. Right. Perfect. And then you have to. I actually had to hire or like have my old life coach come back.
00:13:18
Yeah. Because I was fucking up hard. Like that? Yeah. and one of the things we talked about was just put some makeup on and leave the fucking house
00:13:25
there was one time i called you and you were in a cafe and in my mind i was like wow she's got it
00:13:32
all like a dream come true it changes everything when you have i never thought of it dude you it
00:13:40
changes my fucking entire day yeah then you oh my god like today i've left the house once in the
00:13:46
since New Year's Eve, since New Year's Day, and it was to eat oysters last night. And I don't think
00:13:53
I've been around anyone but Vince. Yeah. Who's basically the same person as me at this point.
00:13:58
You guys are very similar. So we're like the same, you know, you're a real team. It's like being alone.
00:14:03
A little bit. Yeah, I can see that. So we just talk about cats, our cats, and point out things our cats are doing. It's pretty cool. But you're also very funny. I mean,
00:14:12
And I've been the, you know. Me? He. We. Together. Thank you. You're real witty.
00:14:17
I really enjoy how you guys talk to each other so much. It's really delightful and fun.
00:14:23
Thank you. Yeah. You're fun to travel with. Thank you. So are you. Yeah. Thanks.
00:14:28
Yeah. That's nice. Goodbye. One more email. Okay. This is just fun times. I can't believe 2017 is over.
00:14:37
I know. I mean, it's done. I know. This is a brand new year, friend. I know. Let's do it.
00:14:43
Let's absolutely do it. I mean, we have no choice. I don't know. We do? I really believe in myself to a really fucked up degree.
00:14:53
Well, no, you have a lot of choices, especially with this new podcast coming out, because the direction, first of all, just doubling up on podcasts is going to be great for you.
00:15:05
And then just the directions you're going to take it in. Yeah. It's just explaining.
00:15:09
I'm going to learn and forget so much stuff. It's going to be great. Information is going to be coming at me.
00:15:16
I can't wait for you to not absorb any of it. This is an email from Kaylee. It says, hi, gals.
00:15:22
My name is Kaylee Carter, and I play Sadie Rose in Godless. Oh, fuck y'all. It was to my shock and delight that I turned on the podcast to hear our show as a source of delight to you.
00:15:34
Oh, my God. When your podcast is one of my deep obsessions. Oh, my God. Along with true crime and, well, anything murder related.
00:15:40
It's so badass and inspiring to hear ladies getting together to create. And what you've created is so unfiltered.
00:15:46
No, sure. What are you fucking talking about? What the are you talking about? Sorry. Believe that.
00:15:54
Kaylee, sorry. What you've created is so unfiltered, badass and empathetic. Just wanted to let you know that the ladies of LaBelle lost it on our communal text chain about you guys.
00:16:04
Oh, my God. A fan, Kaylee Carter. Okay, sorry. That was very self-serving. But oh my God, Stephen, that's a good email to pull.
00:16:11
Yes. Because I've been talking about this show nonstop. Everyone's talking about it.
00:16:15
I really loved it so much. Really, really thought it was a beautiful piece of writing and work.
00:16:21
So good. Wow. Thanks, Kaylee. Thanks, Kaylee. Say hi to that text chain for us. Can I?
00:16:28
Okay. So I've been having really bad insomnia lately. Yeah. As I do. And can I do a podcast corner?
00:16:35
Do it. Podcast recommendation corner? Yes. So this chick has been keeping me company while I can't sleep for like four hours last night
00:16:42
or three to seven. The worst. It was great. And my sleep phones, I highly recommend them.
00:16:47
This is not an ad. They look like a sweatband, but they have flat headphones in them.
00:16:52
Oh, my God. So she has this lovely soothing voice, and the topics are really macabre and weird.
00:16:59
It's called The Strange and Unusual Podcast. Have you listened to it? No. It's by Alison Horrocks, H-O-R-R-O-C-K-S, which sounds like a fucking...
00:17:08
Horrocks. It sounds like a spell. It sounds like a spell. Exactly. From Harry Potter.
00:17:11
Yeah. The Horcrux? Yeah. There's 10 episodes and they're like, it's all macabre and like weird, you know, witchy,
00:17:18
old gothic timey, you know, catacomb-y stuff. Yeah. It's really good. And is it true or is it stories?
00:17:25
It's true stories. True stories. Let me throw those two together. Yep. The one thing I didn't realize could be possible.
00:17:34
It's like, it's true. It's almost like the Strange, I mean, the Mysteries Abound.
00:17:40
Yes. But she does all the writing herself and tells you about it. It's really good.
00:17:44
Sweet. Paul Rex, everybody, if you don't listen to Mysteries Abound, you've got to.
00:17:47
So the Strange and Unusual podcast, and it's called that because from Beetlejuice, when
00:17:51
Lydia says, I myself am strange and unusual. Oh. Isn that cute Yes I love it Yeah And she just been kind of like keeping me company The best Yeah Well then if I to join you in this corner I will do my recommendation The
00:18:05
person that's been keeping me company for my whole vacation. I, um, I can't remember. I think
00:18:13
I've seen like either a Ted talk or some clip of him on British TV, but I, in driving knew that I
00:18:20
wanted to get like do a deep dive into something and actually maybe learn something. So I looked up
00:18:26
audio books by John Ronson and he's a British, um, reporter and a podcaster. He does a ton of stuff.
00:18:35
Author. He's written a ton of books. He wrote the men who stare at goats. He wrote, so you've
00:18:40
been publicly shamed, which is all about the social media thing. He's done all this stuff.
00:18:44
So he has a book. One, one of the ones I listened to is called lost at sea. And it's just a bunch
00:18:49
of different stories and articles that he's written and they they cover everything from
00:18:55
um people who disappear on cruise ships and basically the rash of that happening the fuck up
00:19:01
uh-huh it to i can't remember anything else just being lost at sea in general just being lost at
00:19:07
sea like you have to listen to it and he has okay my very favorite thing and i laughed so hard
00:19:13
when i was listening to this i was in my room at my sister's house i was laughing so hard i was
00:19:19
crying and I couldn't breathe and I was sick. So I felt, I thought I was going to die. He interviewed
00:19:24
the insane clown posse after the magnets, how did they work song miracles came out. And it is one of
00:19:31
the funniest because he's a very straightforward, very plain spoken and very direct interviewer.
00:19:38
And he then reenacts the, like the two guys in insane clown posse reacting to how much shit
00:19:47
they've gotten like, cause they've been called the worst band in history and still like really
00:19:53
terrible things and stuff. So he kind of went and talked to them and it's the funniest thing I've
00:19:58
ever heard in my life. Oh my God, I'm listening. And he's just very like, he's so endearing and
00:20:03
he's really, I don't know. He's just super brilliant and a really hilarious, amazing
00:20:08
writer. So anyway, John Ronson, tons of audio books. And he also has a podcast called the
00:20:13
butterfly effect that's about like working in the porn industry right right which I started
00:20:19
listening to it it's a little bit um I'm worried I'm I'm worried I don't I'm worried about having
00:20:27
to hear people that that don't yeah aren't doing well or something yeah whereas I like if it's a
00:20:32
story and someone's in the third person talking about it it's a different thing it's kind of like
00:20:36
my 911 call yeah issue I get that well really quickly one that I'm not listening to but I
00:20:43
have listened to it and it's hilarious and I just want to give it a shout out because it's
00:20:46
fucking incredible is the true crime podcast done disappeared oh I haven't heard it no it's a parody
00:20:53
called done disappeared yes it's about missing girl named Clara Pockets it's hosted by John
00:21:03
David Booter and it's basically a parody of Up and Vanished wait John David Booter is not a real
00:21:08
No, it's like, it's so, it's like this beautifully narrative, narrative podcast, like someone knows
00:21:15
something, let's say. Right. And it's done really well. And you hear the crunching of the gravel.
00:21:19
And then he talks about these things that are least serious, but it's all bullshit and it's
00:21:22
all fake. And it's like kind of corny and just amazing. So silly. It's so silly.
00:21:26
And I, it made me really happy. Oh, that's great. Yeah. That's awesome. Done disappear.
00:21:31
I mean, that's so funny. It's like, it is so popular these days that like you can, it's like, it's like, it's
00:21:38
like the American Vandal. Yeah, exactly. You know, has been nominated for, I think, a Writers Guild
00:21:44
Award. Yeah. That's so cool. Yeah. It's just like that. Yeah. It's like, this is a really well done
00:21:49
documentary. It's just about an absurd thing. That's not real. It's the same thing. Yeah.
00:21:53
That's awesome. Yeah. I love it. I love it, too. All right. I mean, I wonder who goes first.
00:22:00
I mean, whatever happened was in the past. It's 2018. And it's episode 102, which sucks that it's
00:22:07
not 101 because we put up a live episode oh live that's right because we're on vacation but i know
00:22:12
but like but that was one 2017 too right yeah yeah so we can do whatever we want we can do whatever
00:22:20
we want and the last one technically that we recorded here we did together right so it's a
00:22:27
real clean slate clean slate blank everything is everything um from here to eternity what if we
00:22:33
make Stephen pick one of us to go first? Oh no. Pressure's on. No, wait. What if we
00:22:40
make Stephen... No, I don't know. Let's pick mustache hairs. You can throw the clown doll.
00:22:49
Whoever slaps it away hard enough. Okay, Stephen, who goes first? I'm closing my eyes.
00:23:00
I don't know why that matters. Say a number. Ten. Okay. What day is your birthday?
00:23:05
Eighth. What's yours? Eleventh. What does that mean? Mine's closer. So do you want to go first?
00:23:10
Do you want me to go first? It's the perfect system. Okay, how about... Well, I was going to say, since you got it, then you get to pick who goes first.
00:23:19
Oh, shit. Oh, really? So you're putting it on me? Nobody wants this part of the job.
00:23:24
That's why we gave it to you. Okay, well, mine is long and gruesome. What's yours?
00:23:28
I don't think it's that long. Okay, I can go first. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Good job, Stephen.
00:23:35
Stephen, you've done it again. I've done it. And we are back. Did it surprise you to learn that we actually came into contact with someone from Godless?
00:23:47
Yeah. And you know what? I recently watched the movie that she's in called Private Life with our other friend in the biz, none other than Paul Giamatti.
00:24:00
Oh, cool. Private Life. Yeah. And she's really good at that, really darling. It's so funny to listen back to, hear us talking about the podcast we're listening to,
00:24:09
because I feel like it's such a marker of time, especially limited series. When you go back and
00:24:15
listen to a certain thing, you're like, oh my God, I remember being so into that or living in that
00:24:20
world for whatever, three weeks. Or that's what my falling asleep routine was. And the Strange
00:24:26
Unusual podcast is still going strong. And they've got really like some great episodes recently about
00:24:31
like 10 things in the Appalachian woods that shouldn't be there. Like what a great thing to
00:24:36
fall asleep to. So good. But I have definitely had to turn them off because they've been too scary
00:24:41
to fall asleep to before. Yeah, those ones are serious. Also, John Ronson, he made a podcast
00:24:47
series called Things Fall Apart in 2021. And it's about the modern culture war. I bet it's a
00:24:52
fascinating listen now in 2026. Oh my god, for sure. Is it 2026 already? It is. Yeah. It's June.
00:25:02
That's ridiculous. You're lying. I don't believe you. I would never lie on a podcast,
00:25:07
only privately. The faux true crime podcast name done disappeared still cracks me the fuck up.
00:25:13
Done disappeared. All these years later. And it's so funny because like it was so new that like it
00:25:19
was okay like we were making fun of it it's too big everyone's got one but it's like oh you just
00:25:23
you wait it's gonna get even better just wait this little trend 2018 yeah our stories are a
00:25:33
couple heavy hitters i didn't realize that we did these in the same episode it's very intense
00:25:38
yeah it's very intense i didn't either because i still think about yours all the time so we're
00:25:43
still going george and i self i think self-researching and self-producing so there's no like
00:25:48
no wiser global look at anything no structure size yeah but i don't know i think people like
00:25:56
that i just think that's why we ended on good things we just don't do that anymore right well
00:26:02
and also i think there's not that many of these insane serial killer style horrible like these
00:26:09
are the some of the worst of the worst i yeah the the beast of jersey is i think the most one
00:26:15
of the most disturbing serial killer stories there is because a mask wearing a mask right and like
00:26:22
and a choker necklace of spikes and wristlets of spikes so no matter where you grab them to get
00:26:28
them away from you you hurt yourself it's just insane also lived a totally normal public life
00:26:33
that's what's like that couldn't it's a tiny village on an island and they couldn't figure
00:26:39
out who it was because it's got to be someone you know if it's you know everyone on this island
00:26:44
Oh, my God. Let's get into it. Yeah. All right. Let's hear Karen's story about the beast of Jersey.
00:26:49
Edward Paynell. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
00:27:01
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dining table or bed head over to article.com. Goodbye. Mine. And I had never heard this story before.
00:31:02
Okay. This is more of a story, more of a case, uh, more of a personality, uh, because there's,
00:31:08
I don't think there's an actual murder that they know of. This is the beast of Jersey.
00:31:13
Have you ever heard of the beast of Jersey? No. Okay. Get fucking ready. I'm fucking ready.
00:31:18
Okay. And willing. Great. Ew. I. Excuse me. Both of your feet are in the bucket.
00:31:25
I'm going to suck my feet in a bucket and get myself ready. My medical. I like that we just, we kick off an episode with you having recovered memories and we just blaze right through it.
00:31:37
We just keep on chatting. I mean, I'm, I'm clearly doing okay with, with. You're just doing it.
00:31:43
I'm just doing it. Okay. So the Beast of Jersey's name is Edward Paynell or Paynell.
00:31:50
I'm not sure. And this story, I stumbled upon it on a, as we know, we love the website Ranker.
00:31:58
And Ranker is in there with all those serial killers and the serial killer, 15 most interesting things about this and that and whatever.
00:32:05
And so at the bottom of one of those lists, they have additional lists where it's like this, this, all these links.
00:32:13
It's like, thank you for my insomnia. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. And it's all the 15 horrible things about the toy box killer.
00:32:20
It's every terrible thing you could ever look up. Love it. So on there, I found the Beast of Jersey, which I'm like, I assume New Jersey.
00:32:28
And when you look it up on YouTube, there is a guy who who starts his videos start coming
00:32:35
up as the Beast of Jersey. But he is a weightlifter in New Jersey. Oh, no. He was just like swole and yoked and all the other things you'd say if you went to the gym.
00:32:46
And he's calling himself the Beast of Jersey? Well, I mean, I think it's like, you know, that's the language of like he's in beast mode working out.
00:32:52
He didn't Google it though? Why didn't you Google it? This one's from the 60s and 70s.
00:32:58
So he's like, I'm the new Beast of Jersey. Right. Okay. That's long enough ago. He didn't give a shit.
00:33:03
Yeah. He looks great in a tank top. He's doing good work. Good for him. I respect it.
00:33:07
Good for him. 2018 is his year. That's right. I can feel it. So, guys, please go to Beast of Jersey YouTube channel and just support him.
00:33:14
Give him a thumbs up. Because he can lift so much weight. Okay. I got the timeline of these crimes, the details, all of it from a blog that's called True Crime Enthusiast.
00:33:29
I've used her once before for one of my, I can't remember which one, but it was a case when we were on a live show.
00:33:34
and she that true crime enthusiast is also a podcast but i found this on her blog okay and
00:33:42
it was the most information of any i couldn't find any other um websites besides our dear old
00:33:50
wikipedia um everything on youtube is like one of those three minute videos that someone that
00:33:55
seems like someone in high school made that like i then started watching one and then it went off
00:34:02
into some other thing where this woman who was narrating was like Canadian and yelling about how
00:34:07
the government isn't going to admit to anything. And it went crazy. I had it quite the afternoon.
00:34:13
Listen, let's get back. Let's focus. Jersey is one of the Channel Islands off the northwest coast of France. Got it. I thought it was in England. Well, it's not new.
00:34:26
It's not a new Jersey. No, that's what I was hoping for. It's original Jersey. Okay.
00:34:31
So it's right by Normandy off the coast out there. It's also by Guernsey Island.
00:34:38
They have the best cows between Jersey and Guernsey. Amazing, gorgeous cows. Right, Stephen?
00:34:44
Stephen's crying. He loves this so much. Am I right, though? I don't know anything about cows.
00:34:50
Yes, you do. I think the Guernseys are red and the Jerseys are black and white. Are you being serious right now?
00:34:56
Yes. Because you grew up in a town with a lot of cows. Yes. That's why you know that.
00:35:00
I didn't know if they were just making up facts about a town. No, no. Jersey and Guernsey cows are like really high end.
00:35:06
Listen, explain something to me. Okay. That's it about cows. Oh, oh. Just if you want a high quality cow, you're going to need a small island off the coast of France.
00:35:16
I'll take it. That's where they're all from. Okay. Okay. On Google Maps, Jersey has a 4.9 star review out of 43.
00:35:27
Why are you reviewing fucking islands? This is me trying to scrape together information about Jersey in a way that can inform me.
00:35:35
I was like, is it rich people? It seems like it's a very well-to-do people. They have a lot of great agriculture, obviously award-winning cows, really small.
00:35:47
And although it is not a part of the United Kingdom English is the language that the main language spoken there They use the pound They drive on the left They love soccer The national anthem is God save the Queen But they are an independent parliamentary democracy So don fucking say
00:36:06
that they're British because they're not. And in 2014, there were 100,000 people living there.
00:36:13
So that's, it's not a big place. But in November of 1957, a reign of terror began on this island
00:36:21
that is so fucking crazy. And it went on for 10 years. And so it starts like this.
00:36:28
A 29-year-old nurse is waiting for a bus. Now, when all this gets explained, they break it up by counties and parishes and stuff.
00:36:38
But since it's all meaningless, I just figured we'll just do it. It's all happening on an island
00:36:43
that's, I think, 49 miles wide. Great. It's a setting. Yes. Just picture... watch Father Brown?
00:36:52
It's a wonderful British priest-based crime procedural. No, but I have an island in my mind.
00:36:58
I'm there. It's not tropical. No, no, no. It's like a damp, dewy, pastoral, beautiful island.
00:37:07
Rocky cliffs. All this. Fog. And tons of bus stops. Rural bus stops. Okay, so this woman's
00:37:18
a 29-year-old nurse waiting for the bus. She's approached by a man who's affecting an Irish
00:37:24
accent, and he's wearing something on his face. She can't see his face. And before she knows what's
00:37:30
happening, he hits her on the head, he puts a rope around her neck, and he drags her into a nearby
00:37:35
field and rapes her. And even though she has a bunch of stitches and she's severely injured,
00:37:40
she survives. A year later in March, the exact same attack happens a year later.
00:37:47
This time, the woman's 20. She's walking home from the bus stop. And again, a man approaches her.
00:37:54
A rope is put around her neck. She's dragged into a nearby field and raped. Four months later in July, exact same crime.
00:38:00
Oh, my God. This time, it's a 31-year-old woman. She's walking home from the bus stop.
00:38:06
Again, rope around her neck, dragged into a field, exact same thing. And then again, in August of 1959, but this time, it's a young girl.
00:38:15
and then again in November to a 28-year-old woman. So it's the exact same crime happening,
00:38:22
like relatively four months apart. So all of the victims tell the police the same thing.
00:38:29
He put on this Irish accent. He was wearing a mask of some kind or his face was covered in some way.
00:38:35
He's about five foot six and he smells musty. So after this series of attacks, He comes to be referred to as the Beast of Jersey.
00:38:47
But then in 1960, his M.O. changes and he starts attacking people inside, indoors, in their homes.
00:38:54
So it's Valentine's Day in 1960. A 12-year-old boy wakes up to see a man standing at the end of his bed.
00:39:01
He's climbed through the boy's window. He's wearing an old rubber mask and a woman's wig.
00:39:07
Oh, God. And he's holding a flashlight in the boy's face. He places a rope around the boy's neck, leads him outside into a field where he's raped.
00:39:16
So a month later, a woman walking up to the bus stop meets a man who drives by, claims that he's a doctor, that he's on his way to pick up his wife, and he offers her a lift.
00:39:30
And then she gets in the car and she's like, oh, it's just this old guy and doesn't think anything about it until she turns to see that he is wearing an overcoat.
00:39:40
and a hat and gloves. And as she's starting to put that together, how weird that is,
00:39:47
and she also can't see his face. It's like she can't make out his face because it's dark.
00:39:53
By the time she realizes what's going on, he's driven to a secluded spot. He ties her hand behind her head, beats her inside the car.
00:40:00
Then he drags her out of the car into a field, rapes her. Then he puts her back into the car, and he starts to drive again.
00:40:07
she jumps out of the moving car and starts screaming for help. So he bails and he's not found.
00:40:16
Okay. So the same month, this one's super creepy. So it's a mother and daughter in a remote cottage.
00:40:25
The daughter's 14. So it's 1230 at night. The mother is awoken by the phone ringing downstairs.
00:40:33
So she gets up and she goes down to answer it. when she goes, she picks up the phone. There's no one there. She hears a click and then the phone,
00:40:42
she hears the dial tone. So she goes back upstairs and she goes to bed. An hour later,
00:40:47
she hears a noise downstairs. So she goes and she goes out into the landing over the top of the
00:40:54
stairs. She flicks on the lights. That's how I pictured in my head. At some point she turned the
00:40:58
lights on. She walks downstairs. And when she gets downstairs, the lights cut out. Then she realizes
00:41:05
someone is in the living room. So she grabs the phone to call the police. The phone line's been
00:41:12
cut. Yeah. So suddenly a man grabs her, demands money and threatens to kill her. And as she's
00:41:22
struggling with this man, her 14 year old daughter comes out onto the landing and the man immediately
00:41:29
releases the mother and runs to where the daughter is. And so the woman runs out of the house to go
00:41:35
get help, but the neighbors runs back and they find the daughter is alive, but she's been raped with the same
00:41:43
MO as all the other victims. April of the same year, a 14-year-old girl wakes up to find a man
00:41:49
in a mask watching her sleep. What the fuck? She starts screaming and then he takes the mask off No In July an 8 boy is abducted from his home He raped in a field and then he led back with the rope around his neck to his front doorstep Then the attack
00:42:09
stopped for the rest of the year. So of course, this is a tiny island of people and people are
00:42:15
fucking shitting a brick. Because it's also definitely someone who lives there. Yes. So it
00:42:19
It could be anyone. Exactly right. They are interviewing every, they immediately interview every single man who has ever committed a crime at all.
00:42:29
Like the police are just, they have no idea what to do, so they're doing anything they can.
00:42:37
So everything stops. So that's July. Everything stops for the rest of the year. Then in February of 1961, it starts again.
00:42:45
And this time, the MO changes again. Now it's all young children. So by April of 1961, three children have been attacked and raped.
00:42:55
So finally, the police call in Scotland Yard. Yeah. So Scotland Yard puts together this profile of the MO and of the attacks.
00:43:04
Oh my God, love it. And they basically tell the island, you guys have to start self-policing and keeping your eyes open because you have to help us catch them.
00:43:12
Right. As much as we can't be everywhere and we all have to do something about this.
00:43:17
So keep your eyes peeled. So he's 40 to 45 years old. He's 5'6", or somewhere around that height.
00:43:24
He has a medium build. He has a mustache. His face is usually covered by a mask or a scarf during the attacks.
00:43:30
He enters through a bedroom window on a moonlit night, sometime between 10 p.m. and 3 a.m.,
00:43:36
carries a flashlight. He knows the island well, especially the eastern part. And he wears a thigh-length jacket that smells musty, a hat and gloves.
00:43:47
Um, so, but he's, he's still not found and there's no attacks for two years. So there's, that's another part of it is there.
00:43:56
It's like a swell of these horrible crimes and then it just stops. And I think there's probably part of that human reaction is it's, it's done.
00:44:04
We're done. We're done. And like, don't look around and don't keep looking into this.
00:44:08
Like it's over. Um, then in April of 1963, um, a nine year old boy is attacked with the exact same,
00:44:17
Same MO. And then in November of the year, an 11-year-old boy is attacked. Same.
00:44:23
And then in July of 1964, a 10-year-old girl. And then in August, a 16-year-old boy.
00:44:29
Then nothing for two years. So even that, that overall pattern starts to have a pattern.
00:44:36
And then in 1966, the Jersey police received this letter. My dear sir, I think that it is just the time to tell you that you are wasting your time, as every time I have done what I always intended to do, and remember, it will not stop at this.
00:44:54
But I will be fair to you and give you a chance. I have never had much out of this life, but I intend to get everything I can now.
00:45:01
I have always wanted to do the perfect crime. I have done this, but this time let the moon shine very bright in September because this time it must be perfect.
00:45:12
Not one, but two. I'm not a maniac by a long shot, but I like to play with you people.
00:45:18
You will hear from me before September and I will give you all the clues just to see if you can catch me.
00:45:25
Yours very sincerely, wait and see. Oh, my God. God. Yeah. So in August 1966, there's a savage attack on a 15-year-old girl.
00:45:35
But this time there's a new detail. There are long parallel scratches down the torso of the victim.
00:45:42
And then that's the final attack for four years. Wow. Then in August of 1970, a 13-year-old boy wakes up to a flashlight shining in his eyes.
00:45:52
He's taken out of the house with a rope around the neck. He's led to the field. he's raped, attacked, led back to the house. This time the beast tells the boy, stay quiet,
00:46:02
because if you don't, quote, something will happen to your mother and father. So the parents find the
00:46:08
boy disheveled and he tries to say nothing's wrong. And finally he breaks and tells the parents
00:46:14
everything. And when he's taken to the hospital or inspected by police, I'm not sure which one,
00:46:21
But they basically on the boy, they find the same long parallel scratches that they found on the girl from 1966.
00:46:28
And the boy tells police that the man had black spiky hair and a terrifying mask on.
00:46:35
A year later, this is July 10th, 1971. Two policemen are sitting in a traffic light at a red light.
00:46:43
It's 1145 at night and a car speeds past them, runs the red light and is driving erratically.
00:46:50
And so, of course, they throw on their lights or however they do it in Jersey. And they get into a high speed chase with this car.
00:47:02
And it's total Jason Bourne style where on this blog, she was saying the guy drove up on the sidewalk.
00:47:10
He was like doing everything he could to get away from these cars. On this tiny fucking island.
00:47:15
Yeah. That's so crazy. Driving everywhere. And basically, finally, he drives through a hedge and into the middle of a tomato field and like comes crashing to a stop, gets out, starts running through the tomato field.
00:47:27
The cops get out, chase him on foot. They tackle him. They arrest him. They bring him to the police station.
00:47:33
And finally, when they get into the light of the police station, they see that he first of all, they notice in the car with him how musty his coat smells and it strikes them immediately.
00:47:46
That it's like just this weird gross smell, which is what every single one of his victims mentioned.
00:47:51
That's crazy that it was that fucking bad that they were like immediately. So then when they get into the light of the police station, they see.
00:48:00
that there are one-inch nails poking up out of the shoulders of his coat and out of the lapels of his coat and around the cuffs of his coat.
00:48:10
So he has sewn in one-inch nails to stick out like punk rock styles stick out of his coat.
00:48:17
And then they see that he has cloth wristbands that he has made tied around his wrists
00:48:22
that also have one-inch nails sticking out. Dude. So then they see that his pants are tucked into his socks.
00:48:33
He's wearing slippers and wool gloves. And then they check his pockets. So in there, he's got a flashlight with black tape over the light part with just a little slit.
00:48:45
So only a tiny bit of light will come out of that flashlight. So no one will notice it?
00:48:50
Yeah. So he can basically control and direct the light when he's breaking into houses.
00:48:56
Right. Um, then they find two lengths of what they call, um, sash cord, which I think means like
00:49:05
curtain, curtain cord on him. He's got empty cigarette packs, rolls of duct tape and a black wig with stiff spiky hair.
00:49:14
And that's when they find the mask. Are you ready to see the mask? There's your mask.
00:49:23
I'm going to go. I'm going to leave. Look at that. Oh my God. Let me see that. It is so fucked up.
00:49:31
Okay. So what that mask is, is. It looks like, it looks like Edward Scissorhands if he were in a fire.
00:49:40
It's like Edward Scissorhands and Michael Myers had a baby. And that baby. Was a fucking rapist.
00:49:49
Was a horrifying monster. Child monster. The scariest. Okay. The mask is the reason I read the article about him.
00:49:55
because it's the scariest thing I've ever seen. Yeah. That's actually real. Cause I was like,
00:50:00
I'm going to look this up and this is going to be fake. But cause that's so horrifying.
00:50:04
You wake up and that's standing at the end of your bed. No, it's so, no, no, like,
00:50:10
no, no. So that's in his coat pocket. That mask is in his coat pocket. And the wig isn't.
00:50:18
So the wig, he wore the wig and they're separate. So the wig was in one pocket and that wig is hard.
00:50:24
Like it's all, stiff and hard. It looks like gross, like gross dreadlocks. Yeah. And it almost looks, he almost
00:50:31
looks like, um, like Medusa. Yeah. Like he, it looks like snakes, snake hair. What is that mask
00:50:38
made out of? Cause it looks like it's made out of real human skin. It is. I think it is an old
00:50:42
rubber mask. Oh my God. So he was just, it was like pre Halloween, the scariest mask of all time.
00:50:48
Um, okay. So he, sorry, I got so excited to show you that picture. I left the page halfway
00:50:54
through. I'm going to turn this upside down. I don't want to stare at it. It's not cool.
00:51:00
Oh my God. That's terrifying. Um, poor people. I know. So it turns out that this man, the beast
00:51:07
of Jersey is Edward, um, Paynell. He's a 46 year old contractor from a wealthy family. He has a
00:51:14
wife named Joan. He has a daughter and two stepchildren. Um, he is well respected throughout
00:51:19
the island. And he's very kind of prominent. There's a real John Wayne Gacy parallel. Because
00:51:31
he and his wife first met when he worked as a handyman at the foster home that her mother ran
00:51:39
called La Preference. And he would often visit to hand out candy. And during the holidays,
00:51:46
dressed up like Father Christmas. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. The children knew him as Uncle Ted.
00:51:49
No. Yes, of course they did. Yeah. Of course, the police investigate. They find out that Joan and Ted's marriage is not a happy one
00:51:57
and that, in fact, they're basically man and wife in name only, that he has built himself basically an annex off of the house.
00:52:07
So he has an office and, like, living quarters and this whole thing that's separate from the house
00:52:11
so he can come and go as he pleases. and his wife says, you know, he keeps odd hours because he's a big fisherman
00:52:19
and he likes to go on long walks at night. So he's, you know, he's up and out of the house at all hours
00:52:26
and it's how he's been for years. Oh, God. Yeah. So. I wonder if she suspected him ever and just like didn't ever want to say anything
00:52:36
or couldn't accept it. I mean, you would think with the marriage being so unhappy
00:52:42
that he moves, you know, he builds himself a new part of the house. Yeah. That something bad was
00:52:48
happening. But there's a video of Joan that I saw. Yeah. Because there's an actual like, uh, old,
00:52:54
you know, what looks like BBC footage or whatever. And someone's interviewing her and she just looks
00:53:00
like, no, the man I know would never hurt a child. And she's, she seems like she is means what she
00:53:07
says of course but then who knows because there were um lots of abuse allegations yeah at this
00:53:14
foster home and at other so there's another part of this but basically all these abuse allegations
00:53:22
at different foster homes on the aisle island of jersey um against him specifically no against
00:53:31
these people it's super crazy that's part of the black hole i fell into which is watching these
00:53:37
videos from other victims of um who lived at these other like they call i i think they call them
00:53:44
home care yeah but it's basically their fault their one is a this one is obviously a foster home
00:53:51
a big foster like an orphanage essentially yeah but another one the worst one or you know from what the stories I saw was of course it was a Catholic you know send your babies here if you having them out of wedlock and we raise them for you because you not allowed to have children
00:54:11
Meanwhile, they beat the living shit out of them and rape and molest them and all this horrible stuff is happening there.
00:54:17
And they have the real people who lived there talking about being woken up in the middle of the night by the people that work there and led down into these cellars.
00:54:26
And actually, it was so bad that the police started investigating and they found shackles.
00:54:33
They dug up these cellars and found shackles along one wall. And they found all these bones, children's bones there.
00:54:42
Like, it's crazy terrible. It ended up leading to an investigation called Operation Rectangle.
00:54:51
And it recorded a total of 553 alleged offenses with 151 named offenders and 192 victims on this island where in 2014, 100,000 people lived.
00:55:05
So insanity, like something super fucked up was happening. Yeah. Oh, that's so dark in that like top of the lake.
00:55:13
type of thing where it's like, oh, you don't, you don't know the secrets that go on in these.
00:55:18
Yes. And apparently that kind of like privacy and all that is a real big deal there, of course.
00:55:25
And part of the reason people live there, but then that breeds this kind of like nobody talking
00:55:31
about anything and nobody knowing about anything. You can kind of hide in plain sight as like a
00:55:35
fucking creep. And the underrepresented and the marginalized that gets sent to, you know some horrible home somewhere yeah you know then it suddenly becomes so so anyway uh
00:55:48
basically they go to his house with a you know to to look into his house and um they find they oh she the quote that she said was he's the most loving caring man who would
00:56:04
never hurt a child. Joan! Joan. Joan. Okay. So when the police questioned him about why he was driving
00:56:11
so crazy, he told them that he was on his way to an orgy. And that's why he was dressed so oddly,
00:56:16
because he didn't want anyone to recognize him on the way to the orgy. Because of course,
00:56:20
everyone would know where he was going in his car. Right. Then he explained away the nails
00:56:26
sticking out of his clothing that he wanted to be prepared in case anyone attacked him with martial
00:56:31
arts. I do that too. It's always going to be ready with a series of nails. Nail jewelry.
00:56:40
Yeah. So when they search the house, they find a locked secret room inside his room.
00:56:46
Oh my God. He's already got his own annex. Oh my God. Then he's got a locked secret room. Tell me what's in it.
00:56:52
Well, guess what it smells like. Must. Yes. He loves must. Febreze that shit? I mean, it's like one of the fucking clues.
00:57:02
I mean, apparently this whole room smelled like the jacket. Oh, my God. And inside the room, they find an old blue tracksuit.
00:57:10
They find an old raincoat, homemade wigs, which for some reason I find bone chilling.
00:57:14
Yeah. And false eyebrows, which is also very creepy. So he was clearly playing with his appearance constantly.
00:57:22
So even if they said, oh, I was also at that bus stop and I saw that woman. But whatever description they would give would never be accurate, which was his plan.
00:57:34
And what they start to realize is he had these plans set in place for years. Because they found a camera hanging on a hook, and then they found photos of houses from around the island.
00:57:48
And eventually they got out of him that he would choose his victims sometimes years in advance.
00:57:54
What? He would take a picture of the house. He would memorize the map of the house.
00:57:58
He knew exactly whose room was whose and what window to go into. So he would never, he never accidentally went into some wrong window and was in the parents' room.
00:58:08
He always knew which room the children's room was. Oh my God. And he knew exactly when to go and when they were by themselves or when everybody was asleep.
00:58:17
Like he planned it meticulously for years. This is scaring me like no other story we've done has scared me.
00:58:22
It's the fucking scariest thing of all. He is the legit boogeyman. Yeah. Like crazy. And then basically the nails for real were if somebody caught him,
00:58:34
tried to grab his hand, tried to grab his shoulder, he would get away. Oh my God. Like
00:58:40
he had all these things planned to make sure he never got caught. And that's why he, it happened
00:58:45
for so long. Then they also found, um, what they, what they called in, in, um, and the blog I was
00:58:53
reading, she refers to it as black magic and things related to black magic. But in another
00:58:58
article I read, they were like a full on altar to Satan in his barn behind a red velvet curtain,
00:59:06
which none, that was not mentioned in any way in this blog, which I kind of, I trust her. She's so
00:59:11
thoroughly researched. Um, yeah, that's a little David Lynch. It's a little where to get a red
00:59:17
curtain and how come no one noticed a red curtain in a barn? Yeah. I mean, it's always possible and
00:59:22
it would be very striking um and effective for black magic uses for like i'm in the middle of a
00:59:29
field filled with gorgeous cows i turn around here's this curtain out of nowhere okay so anyway
00:59:38
um all kinds of satanic shit though in this room um so basically that i mean that's it he goes to
00:59:46
trial and on November 29th 1971 it took 38 minutes to declare him guilty of all charges
00:59:53
he sentenced to 30 years in prison that it and he gets out in 20 what he was a model prisoner He paroled in 1991 Stop it Yeah Stop He goes to prison in 1971 and he gets out in 1991
01:00:08
What the fuck? He tries to move back to Jersey. Oh, hell no. And the people are like, yeah, no way.
01:00:15
So he ends up moving to the Isle of Wight and he dies there of a heart attack in 1994.
01:00:20
so i think the isle of white is uh from what i know i think one of my favorite bands is from the
01:00:28
isle of white and i think it's real sparse would you look that up really quick steven think he's
01:00:33
already doing it but oh my 20 years 20 years because it's all rape and this was the 70s yeah
01:00:41
when they were like uh yeah i wish that was not like that anymore i know let's well it's getting
01:00:45
better though certain places like a serial rapist would not would not get out of jail in 20 years
01:00:51
they don't do that anymore i mean i know every case i'm trying to oh i forgot i forgot to believe
01:01:00
you and everything okay good okay great great great great thanks for telling me karen let's
01:01:04
see okay was i right about the isle of white it's the bees i love that fucking band the bees
01:01:10
Chicken Payback, best song ever. Steven, you just looked up the musicians. Wait, but do we know anything about the...
01:01:19
Here, let me just actually say. Notable bands from... Whatever. Isle of Wight. It's the largest and second most populous island in England.
01:01:32
So I was totally wrong about that. We'll do a show there, fine. Oh my God, let's go to the Isle of Wight.
01:01:37
Okay. They have a really good music festival there, I believe. Again, that could be bullshit.
01:01:43
I believe. I believe me. So anyway, then, oh, this is the final thing. In that Operation Rectangle, the police had to actually announce that there was no firm evidence linking Paynell to any of the abuse that took place at that Catholic nun home.
01:02:05
It was called the Haute de la Guerin. I did not pronounce that right. Where really terrible things happened.
01:02:11
So they had to say there's no, you know, Beast of Jersey is not connected to this.
01:02:17
Although he was known to be a regular visitor there. Oh, what a coincidence. So basically they're just saying there's no firm evidence, but he also came here all the time.
01:02:26
Yeah. And horrible things happened to the children here. And he likes to hang out at this place.
01:02:31
Yeah. Wow. So horrible, horrible. Uh, and freakishly, like, how did I never hear of any of that before?
01:02:41
Well, I have a similar one. Oh. Horrible, horrible, freakish. How did I never hear about this before?
01:02:47
Oh, shit. Okay, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates? There are no updates except for that in 2017, there was a psychological thriller film called
01:03:02
Beast starring friend of the show Jesse Buckley. Thank you. And Johnny Flynn. Oh, that's good.
01:03:09
I bet it's really good. Right. And now we get into it. Let's just roll right into
01:03:13
more brutality. This is George's story about the Cleveland torso killer. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer,
01:03:27
Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent. The future soccer stars who are already
01:03:31
turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't
01:03:36
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01:03:41
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01:03:46
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering
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off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
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01:06:15
Goodbye. Okay, another list of horrible things that have happened. Yes. this one I've heard the name
01:06:25
but I'd never heard of I'd never known what happened surprisingly this is the Mad Butcher
01:06:31
of Kingsbury Run aka the Cleveland Torso Killer ah shit god damn it were you gonna do it for Cleveland?
01:06:39
yes but I knew it's such a good one that neither of us have done for so long that it's just been dangling out there
01:06:48
yeah well done you thank you I swooped in I apologize Got to do it. But here I go.
01:06:55
Here you go. Let me try to give it justice and everything. So 1930s Cleveland, it's the sixth largest city in America, but it's the most dangerous
01:07:04
because they have a high rate of traffic accidents, which sucks, and rampant organized crime along
01:07:11
with antiquated police force. One of the high crime areas was on the south side of the city known as Kingsbury Run.
01:07:18
It's a riverbed like ravine located near the suburb of Shaker Heights. And it's where the train tracks run along.
01:07:26
So a lot of transients riding the rails in the 1930s would camp out there. And in the Depression era of 1930s, it was this dark, dreary, dangerous place.
01:07:37
And there was a lot of there was a lot of let's see. It was like a hobo camp at that point.
01:07:45
basically. Yes. So hobo is okay to say. I know, right? Yes, it is. Many people told us it stands
01:07:51
for homeboy, which means like, I'm on my way home boy. Right. Like I'm on the train. Yeah. Okay. So
01:07:58
it's a makeshift, they call it a hobo jungle. And it's just that it's just this crazy transient
01:08:05
encampments with box made of boxes and, you know, thrown together houses and this sort of thing.
01:08:10
And it's right next to a place known as the Roaring Third, which is kind of like this neighborhood that's home to bars and brothels, flophouses, gambling places.
01:08:22
It's like the fucking down and dirty area, all grimy. And this is the setting where the most notorious murder cases in Cleveland's history start to happen.
01:08:34
Wow. In September 1935, two teenage boys, and this is a lot of people stumbling along a lot of body parts in this show.
01:08:45
So, in September 1935, two teenage boys playing at the base of Jackass Hill in Kingsbury Run.
01:08:53
Yes. Yep. How could you not go to Jackass Hill every day if you were like 12? Yeah.
01:08:58
I'm going. Where else would we play? Please. Okay. All right. So they discover the decapitated, emasculated, they call it, body of a white male.
01:09:12
Oh, shit. Can you fucking imagine? Like, is it worse to come upon a body or fucking headless body?
01:09:18
Headless body. Yeah, you're right. That's been emasculated. Yeah. That's horrifying.
01:09:24
Yeah. So their lives are ruined. Because here's the thing. Can I just say? Yeah.
01:09:28
If you come upon a body, you don't know what happened. Right. Any number of things could have happened.
01:09:32
Right. You come upon a headless, emasculated body, you immediately know someone did that to that person.
01:09:38
Headless and emasculated him. Someone did it intentionally. Jesus Christ. Unless it's the worst car accident of all time, which it isn't.
01:09:48
Okay, the body is naked except for a pair of socks. Ugh, the worst. I know. Cleaned and drained of blood.
01:09:58
And the cause of death is the decapitation. Yeah. which is horrifying but sorry cleaned and drained of blood like black dahlia style
01:10:08
oh oh wait uh-huh um so the area is being searched by the police they get there they're like
01:10:16
probably talking those kids down from freaking the fuck out oh my god and around 30 feet away
01:10:23
another male corpse is found this body in the same position and the head and genitals also had
01:10:31
been removed. The body appeared to be a 40-year-old male covered with a chemical preservative and
01:10:37
appeared to have been dead for at least a couple of weeks before being dumped after becoming too
01:10:41
decayed, almost as if someone had tried to preserve the body wherever he was, wasn't working, got rid
01:10:48
of the body. Super creepy that we can hear a train right now. Fucking riding those rails. This scares me.
01:10:54
I know. Right? Can you hear that, Stephen? The mad butcher of Kingsbury Run is on that train right
01:11:00
now for all we know. Wow, there hasn't been a train gone by here in over 25 years. Okay,
01:11:06
close to the bodies, though, they find both heads, as well as both sets of genitals, they
01:11:12
discarded them as though they had just been thrown away. No blood is found on the ground
01:11:18
or on the bodies. And so they had been cleaned somewhere else. Yeah, the younger man, the
01:11:24
first body that was found had been dead for about three days. And his fingerprints were
01:11:29
able to lead him to who he was. He was Edward Andresi. He's a 28-year-old guy who,
01:11:36
minor police record for carrying a concealed weapon. He lived near Kingsbury Run. He was
01:11:40
kind of a rough and tumble dude. He had a reputation for being a drunk and frequently
01:11:44
getting into fights. And when they did the autopsy, based on the cuts, the operation was
01:11:50
done very skillfully, and the investigators suspected that the killer might be a butcher,
01:11:54
a surgeon, or at least someone familiar with killing animals. But she was like, it's always the case.
01:12:00
It's like, I think if you don't know what you're doing, you don't try to start doing that.
01:12:04
Or like you get, you kind of get like a, you get like a fetish for it. Yeah. If you do it to like animals, maybe.
01:12:11
Maybe if you're a certain, certain, certain sort of psychopath. Right. Oh, sorry.
01:12:17
That was the, the John Ronson book that I started with. The audio book was The Psychopath Test.
01:12:23
That's the whole reason that all started. And it's such a good book. Sorry. No, you're good.
01:12:27
I should have said that before. But it basically, there's no difference, the relatively no difference between a psychopath and a sociopath.
01:12:34
It's all he goes into all of that. But anyway, it's relevant. It's very relevant.
01:12:40
But like that, you couldn't just a normal person, if you were going to kill somebody, even if you planned it out.
01:12:45
Yeah. If you were, you would have to be devoid of feeling to do all that stuff. Yeah.
01:12:50
Yeah, you'd have to be a certain mental type to be able to clean a body, drain it of blood.
01:12:59
Cut pieces of it off. Yeah. So, like, I'm a pretty normal person, and the thought of having to...
01:13:06
You just nodded your head in the most sarcastic way. Was that involuntary? It was silent.
01:13:15
Was that involuntary? it was conversational i appreciate it though because i don't want to be normal i mean in that
01:13:24
i'm not a psychopath so the thought of having to go from here to killing someone is such a huge leap
01:13:31
that the people who are okay doing it must be must be fucking closer to that already 100 you
01:13:36
know what i mean yeah i don't think it's a i don't think it's like a line in the sand i think it is a
01:13:41
total is light on or off because there's nothing worse like when you watch when you're watching a
01:13:46
movie and people like, oh, what was that fucking, um, oh, that movie, the Ewan McGregor movie,
01:13:53
he would let made him a star where they kill their roommate. Oh, no, no, no, no. Um, it was
01:14:00
the one where they, it was the three roommates. They decide to kill the fourth roommate or maybe
01:14:07
they don't kill him, but he's dead and they cut up his body. And it basically having to watch
01:14:11
people who aren't like that have to do something that horrible is, I hate any movie like that.
01:14:19
I mean, it's a good movie, but it's so stressful because then you just picture you would have to
01:14:23
do that. Well, did you watch the second season of Search Party? No, I haven't watched it yet.
01:14:26
It's so good. They're all just dealing with, I'm not going to spoil it, but they're dealing with the
01:14:30
ramifications of the first. And what's her name? Aaliyah Chakrat. She is so good.
01:14:37
She's such a great actress. She's a great actress. And this whole season of her just having stress over what they did.
01:14:43
It's amazing. It's really hard to watch. I get that. It's very stressful. Oh, it's Shallow Grave.
01:14:49
Sorry. Okay, I never seen it. Okay. It's a good movie, but so stressful in that way.
01:14:53
They do it for money, but when you entertain that idea, where you'd be like, what would it take for you to cut up a human body?
01:15:03
I just don't, there isn't an amount of money. I don't think so for me either. I'd rather go to jail.
01:15:08
Because it would PTSD you into infinity. Totally. Totally. The older man, the second body, is impossible to identify.
01:15:16
And that's a fucking thing. Most of these bodies that are found are never identified.
01:15:20
They hope that would be easy to find the killer because the guy who they could identify, Edward,
01:15:25
had this trail through sleazy bars and gambling places. And he's known to be a procurer of young girls for prostitution and also admitted to have male lovers.
01:15:36
So it was like, it's going to be one of these people from this area. He was a gay pimp in Cleveland?
01:15:42
Uh-huh. Yeah. He's from the Roaring Third. They're like, it's going to be someone here.
01:15:46
Or in Kingsbury Run. Easy. But they follow lead after lead, and they can't find any really good suspects.
01:15:55
And the investigation leads nowhere. So the press starts calling the killer the mad butcher of Kingsbury Run, which is such a cool fucking name.
01:16:04
Yeah, it's really good. So a couple months later, in January of 1936, a woman discovers two half-bushel baskets left alongside a manufacturing building in the city.
01:16:14
Inside the baskets and neatly wrapped in newspaper, she finds about half the body of a female.
01:16:21
Whoa. The rest of her body is found about 10 days later in a vacant lot nearby. I mean, people are stumbling upon a nightmare after a nightmare.
01:16:30
Also, if it was wrapped, it said it was wrapped in newspaper. So she unwrapped it and be like, what's in here?
01:16:35
She's like, this could be a stack of money. Yeah. That's totally what I would be like.
01:16:39
Look at this stained wet money. I can't wait to unwrap it and spend it. Fuck. No.
01:16:46
So fuck. Also because it's like you're saying depression. Yeah. She's like, is this fucking food?
01:16:51
Maybe this is food. I'm starving. Let this be. How about some nice dishes? Nope.
01:16:54
How about a nightmare for the rest of your life? Oh, God. Some nice dishes from the five and dime.
01:17:02
Okay. Okay. The cause of death, again, is decapitation. Fingerprints identified the body as Florence
01:17:08
Polillo or Flo. She's this fucking like... Flo Polillo. Flo Polillo. She's this like salty fucking older woman. There's like a good photo of
01:17:18
her online. She's a waitress, a barmaid and a sex worker. She clearly doesn't give a fuck.
01:17:23
Carries a shank in her purse, like obviously. She's doing it. She's getting hurt. She's stacking that paper.
01:17:27
Until she got decapitated. At the time of her death, she lived right on the edge of the Roaring Third, and her head is never found.
01:17:34
Whoa. Okay. In June of 1936 in Kingsbury Run, two young boys are fucking out doing stuff, and they find the head of a white male wrapped in a pair of trousers.
01:17:46
What? Fuck. Those poor kids. Police found the body of the 20 man the next day So they found the head then they found the body the next day dumped in front of a police building Whoa Cleaned and drained of blood Everything intact except for the head Again caused by decapitation
01:18:05
Which is like, if we're going to really talk about it, I don't want to. That's the fucking one of the worst ways to die.
01:18:10
He died of decapitation. Even fast, isn't it? Yeah, you gotta hope. What if it's like, for 20 minutes, you're alive in your head?
01:18:21
That's why. The worst. But that's why you want someone who's actually good at, who's like, is a butcher or a surgeon.
01:18:27
Yeah, you don't want someone hacking away at your neck. No. No. You want a nice guillotine style.
01:18:33
Boom. Make it quick. What was that? I didn't feel anything. Lord, Jesus, is that you?
01:18:40
Yeah. Or whoever your Lord might be. Yeah. I'll take anyone at that point. Yeah.
01:18:44
Just get me out of here. Yeah. A plaster reproduction. This is crazy. A plaster reproduction of the man's head, because they couldn't identify him, along with diagrams of his tattooed are displayed so the public can try to identify him.
01:18:55
And it's this creepy, like, plaster mask. It's so gross. That's the one thing I do remember about this.
01:19:01
Like, all the details are very fuzzy until you say them. But I can see those masks.
01:19:07
There's a lot of them. And you actually can see them in Cleveland. We should go at the Cleveland Police Museum.
01:19:13
They have a bunch of them. Yes. We're going. Yes. Yeah. Two ticks. I thought you were going to pull that out.
01:19:18
I did that. He's called the Tattooed Man, and he's never identified. So in July 1936, while walking through the woods near the West Side,
01:19:29
a teenage girl comes across the decapitated remains of a white male in his 40s. The victim had been dead about two months, and his head,
01:19:36
as well as a pile of bloody clothing, was found nearby. Like, who is doing this?
01:19:41
Also, two months? That thing. Yeah. Did she not, from 50 paces, go, this something smells terrible?
01:19:47
But probably back then everything smelled bad. Oh, true. No. True, true, true. This was back when you had to put deodorant on.
01:19:54
It was in a pot and you had to put it on like cream deodorant. Have you ever seen that?
01:19:59
No. And you didn't probably shower a lot, right? Yeah. And you just slapped on some cream deodorant.
01:20:03
Yeah, no. Gross. By hand. No. So this time though, there's an enormous quantity of blood.
01:20:11
So they're like, he must've been killed there. In the forest? Yeah. In the woods.
01:20:15
Then in September 1936, so two months later, a transient trips over the upper half of a man's torso while trying to hop on a train in Kingsbury Run.
01:20:27
Oh, did he get on that train? I don't know. I hope so. He is trying to catch a train and he trips and that's what it is.
01:20:34
Oh, insult injury. Police send a diver into a nearby swimming hole like sewer area and find the lower half of the torso and parts of both of his legs.
01:20:44
I hope that diver was compensated handsomely. Handsomely. Because also it's a swimming hole, so it'd be all murky.
01:20:54
It's really probably a gross place. It's more feeling around than diving with your eyes.
01:20:59
Yeah. Okay, this victim, who's the number six victim, is his late 20s, cause of death, decapitation.
01:21:06
Coroner notes that the head had been cut off with one bold, clean stroke, which indicated strong, confident killer.
01:21:11
very familiar with the human anatomy and that the victim died instantly. So that's good.
01:21:17
Thank God. Identifications never made. Because, you know, this is the time back then where it's all these transients trying to get jobs.
01:21:24
They're riding the rails from city to city, trying to not be in the cold, freezing cold winter,
01:21:29
trying to make a little bit of money anywhere they can. So it's just this huge transient population.
01:21:35
Yeah. And it seems like the killer used that to his advantage because if they can't identify the victims, they can't track who they spoke to, who they were, who they were friends with.
01:21:46
Yeah, clearly it was a decision that was being made. Exactly. Of who to pick. Exactly.
01:21:53
So plaster casts, again, are made, and some with actual hair from the victims. No.
01:22:01
And the plaster casts. Not necessary. We get it. Brown hair? Yeah. Just type that on a card.
01:22:08
So this makes six brutal killings in one year. And the police had no clues or suspects.
01:22:15
The press reported almost daily on this. Everyone's freaking the fuck out. The officials are super desperate and embarrassed.
01:22:22
And everyone's like, what is crap happening? Everyone's like, watch where you walk.
01:22:27
Don't walk anywhere. Tripping over bodies has become a big thing here. Yeah, it's the new, it's all the rage.
01:22:33
around this time um around the time that these started elliot ness who's the legendary
01:22:38
prohibition agent you know we all know elliot ness it's kevin caster i remember watching the
01:22:45
untouchables when i was a kid and i shouldn't have that's not a kid movie no i will never forget
01:22:51
and i will never forget there's a scene where he takes a baseball bat and bashes someone's head in
01:22:57
yeah i haven't seen the movie since i was a kid and yet i still remember that scene very well yeah
01:23:01
Yeah, really fucked me up. He was the good guy, right? Uh-huh. Yeah, I didn't know.
01:23:08
I don't know why that was. Anyways, Elliot Ness. So he, at this point, is appointed safety director of Cleveland, which means he's in charge of cops and firefighters and everything.
01:23:19
He gets more involved in the case. They put a psychological profile together saying that the offender was a psychopath, although probably not obviously insane.
01:23:26
He had some knowledge of anatomy, and he would have been very skilled at cutting flesh, obviously.
01:23:33
Because decapitations are very messy, it was believed that he had access to some private space where the murders were performed.
01:23:42
And if this was true, then the fact that the bodies had been carried long distances to be dumped indicated that he was probably really strong.
01:23:50
So he also may have been familiar with the Kingsbury Run area. And then two full detectives are put on the case These two dudes go undercover into Kingsbury Run like Shantytown which sounds so much fucking fun doesn it Oh shit
01:24:05
Why isn't there a movie about this? I don't know. Because that's amazing. I think it's called The Adventures of Natty Gann, isn't it?
01:24:12
She went into a shantytown to solve a decapitation murder? Oh, no, no, no. That's part two.
01:24:18
She was so brave, that little girl. That would kind of be amazing. female empowerment she just keeps tripping over torso marching through yeah hand me that head
01:24:29
she doesn't give a fuck um so they get it they get a fucking go undercover there's like photos
01:24:36
of them too online of like being like oh look at me being a hobo and it's like it's like if you
01:24:40
were to dress up as a quote hobo for fucking halloween like how you'd look no sorry can i
01:24:45
sidebar this yes because i did dress up as a hobo one year okay i may have told you yeah it was my
01:24:51
own idea because right around age eight, I think my mom started telling me I was on my own Halloween
01:24:57
costume style. So it was just like whatever you could gather around the house was your costume.
01:25:02
A hundred percent. One time I was a caddy because I found old, a small old set of golf clubs in the
01:25:09
garage. So you just carried golf clubs around with you the whole night? Yeah, that was my costume.
01:25:16
was manual labor. How did we? Why didn't we? Why didn't anyone care what your kids,
01:25:24
and then you go, you dress as a fucking caddy, and then it's like, go out by yourself at night
01:25:29
and knock on people's doors and ask for candy. But I didn't make it to the night with the caddy outfit
01:25:34
because at school in this Halloween parade, I learned my lesson of like, I'm carrying 20 pounds of golf clubs for no reason.
01:25:42
And also in this day and age, can you imagine a parent being like, make your own costume. They would be arrested and like, you'd never hear from them again.
01:25:51
So anyway, I, the, that year I became, I was a hobo. So I just had a bunch of old clothes and,
01:25:57
you know, it was the classic seventies child costume. But what I thought was going to be
01:26:03
innovative is I put Vaseline on my face and then I put coffee grounds on the Vaseline so that it
01:26:08
looked like I had a beard and it was fun and creative until the part where we all ate delicious
01:26:15
Just snacks started happening and everything I ate tasted like coffee because that was what was on my face.
01:26:22
And I ruined Halloween for myself. No, my mother ruined Halloween for me. I think the 70s ruined Halloween.
01:26:30
How did any of us enjoy fucking anything? That's a great question. It was all Abba Zaba anyway.
01:26:36
Okay, go ahead. They're dressed up like... Right. Okay, thank you. They interview more than 1,500 people.
01:26:44
It becomes the biggest police investigation in Cleveland history. And then on February 1937, a man finds the upper half of a female torso washed up on the shore east of Bratanal.
01:26:59
I got that wrong. Bratanal? Bratanal. B-R-A-H-T. Brat. E-N-A-H-L. Bratanal. I hear Cleveland screaming it at us from the audience right now of our fucking Cleveland show.
01:27:12
It sounds like... Yeah, like, okay, Scooby-Doo talk. Right. Unlike all the previous victims, the cause of death had not been decapitation,
01:27:20
because that had happened after she had already been dead, and the lower half of the torso washed ashore three months later
01:27:25
at about East 30th Street. The woman was in her late 20s. She's never identified.
01:27:31
Wow. So it's weird, too, that, again, like with your dude, they're changing up the MOs.
01:27:36
Yes. So it's almost like, you know, nobody's fucking safe. Yeah, because if they do it long enough,
01:27:41
they're, like, developing and fine-tuning. to their own creepy... I mean, it becomes, for both these cases,
01:27:47
it's not about... It's about the act, not about the victim, and not about a want and a need.
01:27:55
It's more about this obsession. So it doesn't matter if you do it on a boy, or a girl, or a grown woman.
01:28:02
Right. It's all the... Yeah, it's the planning, and the picking, and all that. It's enjoying what you're doing.
01:28:12
It's being a psychopath. Yeah. It's being a murderous, lunatic psychopath. Totally.
01:28:16
June 1937, a teenage boy discovers a human skull. Next to it in a burlap bag is several remains of what turned out to be a petite black woman.
01:28:26
So this time it's a black woman, which changes the MO. She's about 40 years old.
01:28:30
Dental work shows that she is Rose Wallace, and police follow every lead they have on her, but nothing is found.
01:28:39
Then in July 1937, the National Guard had been called to maintain order at the flats or where everything's going on.
01:28:47
And a young guardsman is standing watch by a bridge and sees the first piece of victim number nine in the wake of a passing tugboat.
01:28:57
Over the next few days, police recovered the entire body except for the head from the waters of the Cuyahoga River.
01:29:04
The victim who had been mutilated was in his mid to late 30s. He's never identified.
01:29:08
god how it's crazy did it come off the tugboat perhaps oh that's a good question i mean like
01:29:15
did it did it make anyone go maybe that because if you were on a boat if you were the captain say
01:29:21
you're like a crab fisherman or something you're not near the ocean but some that is a yeah that
01:29:28
it's a vessel where you could be by yourself totally you could clean things and you could
01:29:34
Rinse things off. In the water. In the water that surrounds you. That's a good point.
01:29:40
Thank you. Let's look into that. Okay. In 1938, a young laborer is on his way to work in the flats and saw what he first thought was a dead fish along the banks of the Cuyahoga River.
01:29:53
Turns out to be the lower half of a woman leg This is victim number 10 A month later police pulled two burlap bags out of the river containing both parts of the torso and most of the rest of the legs She never identified
01:30:05
Wow. Okay. Then in August 1938, three scrap collectors forging in a dump site, which were
01:30:12
like, don't do that in Cleveland right now, guys. Guys, this is the time where you maybe get into
01:30:18
writing right maybe go internal yeah don't don't do any kind of garbage based uh activities no
01:30:27
exactly they find the torso of a woman wrapped in a man's double-breasted blue blazer then wrapped
01:30:32
again in an old quilt the legs and arms are discovered in a recently constructed makeshift
01:30:37
box wrapped in brown butcher paper and held together with rubber bands and this is the
01:30:41
weirdest one to me because it's makes me think that they're and obviously that's this is one of
01:30:47
The idea is it's a lot of different killers because this one's like it's disposed of so differently.
01:30:53
And I'm shocked that they couldn't find any clue based on that. From a suit jacket where back when everything was tailor made?
01:31:00
Yeah. From the suit jacket to the to the box, to the rubber bands, to the quilt.
01:31:06
It's like it's so crazy that they couldn't find anything. And maybe if it just if it were the same killer there, they've done it so many times that now they're taunting the police.
01:31:17
It's like, here's a ton of clues and you're still not going to find me. Yeah. Could be. Yeah. So. OK.
01:31:26
Yeah, because there's a big difference between a burlap sack and a blazer. Yeah, it's very weird. And it's like it's hidden more than it more than it was.
01:31:34
And it was in a dump site. So it was like it wasn't left out to be found. So I bet this one is like the husband made to look like it's one of the victims of the torso killer.
01:31:46
Smart, is that you think? And it says that some of the parts look like they had been refrigerated.
01:31:54
While searching for more pieces, the police discover the remains of a second body only yards away.
01:31:59
Never mind. Well, maybe that was her lover. Maybe. Here we go. These two bodies have been placed in a location that was in plain view from Elliot Ness's office window.
01:32:09
Whoa. So, yeah. Toying with him? Well, also, his office was close to a dump site.
01:32:16
Yeah. Like the dumps? Yeah. Essentially? Yeah. Wow. I wonder if... Theories. What?
01:32:25
Well, so maybe it was like, let's say it was the husband who killed the wife and the lover and wanted them to get found because he wants the insurance money, but they're going to just assume that it's killed by the torso killer.
01:32:36
So it wasn't like he murdered them. Right. I don't know. That'd be a great plan.
01:32:42
Yeah. Thank you. And by that I mean terrible. I mean awful. Really. So, August 18th, 1938, at 1240 a.m., Elliot Ness and a group of 35 police officers and detectives raid the hobo jungles of the Kingsbury Run.
01:32:57
They arrest 63 men there and they search the shanties that are now deserted, looking for clues.
01:33:05
But you can't decapitate and emasculate a body in a shanty. So they just go after the poorest and represented people.
01:33:16
Well, they think because all these bodies seem to be of transience, that it must be one of their own doing it.
01:33:22
But yeah, they're not going to do it in the shanty. There's very little privacy in the shantytown.
01:33:28
That's true. From my experience. That's a country song, I think. I need time to myself in the shantytown.
01:33:37
And then they set the shacks on fire and burn the whole fucking shantytown to the ground.
01:33:44
Yeah. that's what the fucking cleveland people said too what the fuck non-solution non-solution
01:33:52
the press are really pissed off about it too they criticize ness for his actions um but
01:33:59
the murders did stop after this happened oh maybe okay okay in july 1939 they uh bring in
01:34:09
their suspect, 52-year-old bohemian bricklayer Frank Dolezal. Dolezal. Dolezal. Oh, like Rachel Dolezal?
01:34:19
The woman who posed to be black? How did she spell it? D-O-L-E-Z-A-L? I think. Yes.
01:34:26
That was off right off the top of my head. Dolezal. Well, what a rich history that family has had.
01:34:32
I mean, so he's arrested because he had lived with Flo, our friend Flo, and who had been was the body that was found in the baskets he had lived with her for a while
01:34:43
and it revealed that he had been acquainted with the two other identified bodies edward
01:34:49
and racy and rose wallace oh so after a ton of questioning and got and getting beat the fuck up
01:34:54
by investigators he confesses that he had stabbed her killed her in self-defense but uh he didn't
01:35:01
know any of the case details and um it didn't it he kept getting bruises and injuries from his time
01:35:09
in custody with the cleveland police and within a month he in in custody he's found dead in his cell
01:35:15
oh no he it said he hung himself with his bed sheets um he from a uh a hook that was
01:35:26
five foot seven inches tall off the ground and he was five foot eight. Oh. So that math doesn't add up.
01:35:33
And when the medical records show he had four broken, he had broken ribs and bruises all over his body that were not there before he entered prison.
01:35:42
Yeah. So not fucking, I'm just telling you the information I read, not saying anything.
01:35:49
That's really good call. But yeah, that's dead all sounds. the problem with that too is when you kill the suspect even if it's a bad suspect you
01:36:00
still don't know anything. Right. Like you're still cutting off that line of information.
01:36:04
Well, it's almost like you're not learning anything and you get more and more angry about
01:36:09
it. And so you hurt him more and more to get more information. But if he doesn't know the information, he can't give it to you.
01:36:15
Right. So, yeah. Yeah. To this day, no one thinks that he is the killer. Ugh. All the like historians and shit.
01:36:24
um so but it turns out there's a secret suspect that elliot ness interrogated in 1938 but it
01:36:32
didn't come out who it was until the 1970s was it herbert hoover it was herbert hoover
01:36:37
turns out it was a deranged doctor yes of course sorry i love that yeah dr francis e sweeney and
01:36:47
he sounds like you know a fucking classic deranged doctor okay murderer type love it
01:36:52
He's a veteran of World War I who was part of the medical unit that conducted amputations.
01:36:58
Why did you just laugh, Stephen? I was trying to cover up a sneeze. Oh, okay, good.
01:37:04
We're like, oh, Stephen's finally as fucked up as us. Oh, no. He's sneezing. I thought you laughed so hard that you had to cover your face.
01:37:12
What if Stephen, that's when it's revealed Stephen's intensely evil and has been this entire time.
01:37:18
It's the thing that gets him is World War I amputees. Yeah. That's his fucking favorite.
01:37:23
That's when Stephen's real personality, Steve, comes out. Hey, Steve. Okay, so he's part of a medical unit that conducted amputations and patchings up in the field.
01:37:36
During the interrogation by Elliot Ness, who's like at this point losing his shit because he's so embarrassed that he can't find the killer.
01:37:42
Right. Sweeney said to have, quote, failed to pass two polygraph tests, but they were kind of in their early stages at the time.
01:37:49
So that's, you know, we don't totally know. Back then it was just a third cop holding your finger and then going, lying, not lying.
01:37:57
Very early, rudimentary. That's exactly right. You can see that. You can see that in the Cleveland Cop Museum, too.
01:38:05
Just that same cop sitting there. We're going to go meet him. Look, it's the original lie detector.
01:38:11
It's just screaming in people's faces. That guy. O'Leary, he was amazing. Lie. He was the best lie detector.
01:38:18
He was a lie detective. That's right. I don't know. It seems that, okay, so it seems like Elliot Ness definitely thought that fucking creepy Francis E. Sweeney was the killer.
01:38:29
But there isn't a lot of information on it because it turns out that Sweeney was the first cousin of one of Elliot Ness's political opponents, Congressman Martin L. Sweeney, who had been hounding Elliot Ness in the press publicly about his failure to catch the killer.
01:38:46
So he was about to run again, so it would look really bad if he was like, well, guess what?
01:38:50
It's your cousin. who's the killer and no one would believe him. And then if he were wrong, it would ruin his career,
01:38:56
L.E.N.S.'s career too. Very high stakes. Right. So he's like, fuck, I can't do this,
01:39:01
but I totally think it's this dude. And then he was like, told everyone, don't fucking tell anyone.
01:39:05
And no one fucking told anyone until this dude was writing a book in the 1970s and was like, it was fucking Frank E. Sweeney.
01:39:11
So after he comes under suspicion, Dr. Sweeney commits himself to an insane asylum
01:39:16
and there are no more leads or connections that police could assign to him as a possible suspect.
01:39:21
From his hospital confinement, he's threatening postcards signed by Sweeney, mocked and harassed,
01:39:28
were sent to Elliot Ness, and they mocked and harassed him and his family into the 1950s.
01:39:33
Whoa. He signed them F.E. Sweeney, Paranoidal Nemesis. Paranoidal? Paranoidal Nemesis.
01:39:42
Wow. Mm-hmm. Okay. Of course. I mean, that's like kind of admitting that you did it.
01:39:47
Oh, yeah. Like, that's crazy. Yeah. He's crazy. It's possible, of course, that there were many murderers and copycats, which I think might be the case.
01:39:57
Similar decapitation murders occurred in neighboring Newcastle, Pennsylvania, as well from 1923 to 1940, and none of those were ever solved either.
01:40:06
So there's a lot of similar cases. And before the first two bodies were ever found in 1934, a woman's torso washed up on the shores of Lake Erie outside of Cleveland.
01:40:18
the victim's flesh had also had the chemicals on it that looked like it had been trying to embalm her.
01:40:25
And they called her the Lady of the Lake. But it wasn't until later that they put those, they made the connection that they were all,
01:40:31
they could have been the same killer. Oh, wow. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba, do-do-do-do. Okay.
01:40:38
Okay. So it's also been theorized that the Cleveland Torso murder cases have some connection to the January 1947
01:40:46
murder of Elizabeth Short, a.k.a. the Black Dahlia. In fact, one of the many suspects from Cleveland
01:40:54
was living a few blocks away from where the body of the Black Dahlia was found, severed in half and drained of blood.
01:41:02
No fucking way. So somebody that got interviewed for that? Way back in the 30s. For those murders.
01:41:10
In Cleveland. 15 years before. Uh-huh. Moves out to sunny C.A. A couple blocks away.
01:41:16
To try his hand at acting. Uh-huh. Or what have you. Fuck. Yeah. Like, what are the fucking chances?
01:41:23
The very low, I would guess. Or was he like, maybe he did kill her, and he just wasn't also the killer of the torso people in Cleveland.
01:41:35
That would not even be more of a coincidence? Yeah. No, no, no. Because he'd been following the murders that whole time in Cleveland.
01:41:42
He was like, that sounds like fun, and he killed her. So he was copycatting as well.
01:41:46
Yeah, either way, he killed the Black Dahlia. Shit. Yeah. But it interesting to note that Dr Sweeney who didn die until 1964 spent the rest of his life committed He was allowed to leave for days or weeks at a time Because he committed himself Oh Until his permanent institutionalization in 1955
01:42:07
So maybe that motherfucker went to California for all I know. Yeah, where'd he go when he got to leave?
01:42:12
Great question. Ooh. Ness's inability to catch the killer drove him fucking crazy,
01:42:19
and it also tarnished his reputation, which we know is, like, fucking super historic.
01:42:24
and godly. And official police records on the case have been lost, destroyed, or removed.
01:42:32
Shit. And so ClevelandPoliceMuseum.com. A lot of good information there and a lot of photos.
01:42:39
And there's some gruesome ones too, just so you guys know. And also a website called PrairieGhosts.com.
01:42:45
Prairie Ghosts. Got a lot of good information there as well. Nice. So that is the Cleveland Torso Killer
01:42:53
or the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run. Wow. Yeah. Also, the fact that that ends with hooking up to another great unsolved mystery is insane.
01:43:07
Like, it's so good. I know. And crazy. Yeah. Because then that means potentially it's, say, 30 years from now, they find some kind of whatever.
01:43:18
Like, what if one day it's solved and it's the Black Dahlia and the Mad Butcher of Kingsbury Run?
01:43:25
Do you think the Black Dahlia will ever be solved? I mean, that's what I asked for for Christmas.
01:43:31
So, yes, I believe that Santa can hear me. There's got to be a speck of DNA. And then they put it through CODIS and it's the relation DNA that they have now that's so cool.
01:43:43
Oh, yeah. Where it can be like, the person whose DNA this matches is related to this other person who's in CODIS.
01:43:52
Oh. So even if they're not in CODIS, which because they'll be so old, it wouldn't be in there.
01:43:56
But they can be like, this is the person's great grandson. So they could track them down anyway.
01:44:01
Yeah. If that person is in CODIS. Did you ever listen to that series? And I'm not going to be able to remember it off.
01:44:07
Oh, no, I can. It's Hollywood and crime. Oh, yeah. Did you listen to that? And it's like basically all those, there were a bunch of similar murders before and after.
01:44:15
That podcast is so fucking good. Hollywood and Crime, if you haven't listened to it, man, it's good.
01:44:19
And it is, it wades right into all this whole, the Black Dahlia territory. The Black Dahlia thing is, it's so much bigger than you thought.
01:44:28
Yeah. And it's a great podcast. Yeah, it tells all these stories. It tells it so well.
01:44:35
It's like, it's reenactments. I feel like I recognize some of the actors that are playing like the cops and stuff.
01:44:40
Yeah. There's some really good voice acting in it. Yeah, listen to it from the beginning because it's episodic.
01:44:45
It's not. Yeah. And you need to know because it's all connected. It's amazing. So good.
01:44:51
That was great. Thank you. Cleveland. We'll see you soon. We'll see you soon. We'll see you soon.
01:45:02
Okay. All right. Good job, us. Good job, us. That was really fun. 2018. 2018. Um, let's do it.
01:45:13
More haunted trains in the background of 2018. I can't ever move from here or else I'm not going to have a haunted train.
01:45:19
I know it's the best. Should we start recording from a fucking train boxcar? Haunted boxcar?
01:45:27
From the dining car of a train where we have to wear like 40s outfits and those pillbox
01:45:34
hats with netting down the front. Martinis. Snoots. Martinis with tons of olives.
01:45:39
I mean, here's the thing. If we get threatened by nuclear war even just a little bit more,
01:45:45
I feel like I should start drinking again. I feel like nothing bad will happen. I think wait until the first bomb is dropped.
01:45:53
Okay. And then I support you. But then, you're right, you're right. Wouldn't it be a bummer if you died of a seizure before you could die of nuclear holocaust?
01:46:04
Wait until you're ready to die of a seizure. Okay. Promise me. But here's the thing.
01:46:11
Just as an FYI, the liquor and the seizures are not directly related. The reason I can't drink is because my medicine is bad on my liver.
01:46:20
Oh. So you basically will speed yourself into liver failure if you keep drinking.
01:46:26
But it's not good for it. But it won't immediately make me have a seizure. Okay.
01:46:31
So until how long? I think I got a good six-months bender in me before I dropped.
01:46:38
I don't think that we're going to be around that much longer. Okay. Okay, we're back.
01:46:46
Are there updates for this story? There are updates. In 2024, DNA Doe Project teamed up with Cuyahoga County's chief medical examiner
01:46:54
to exhume the bodies of the John and Jane Does associated with this case to test them for DNA
01:47:00
and attempts to identify them using genetic genealogy. They had planned to test the remains from John Doe number four, which was the tattooed man, and John Doe number six.
01:47:10
But there hasn't been anything else published regarding that. And we all know that takes such a long time, especially for cold cases where the culprit is probably deceased, most likely.
01:47:21
So they're not in a rush. But God, it'd be really incredible to get some answers there.
01:47:25
I mean, just more and more waiting. It's like once they start the testing, shouldn't the rule be that they have to get it done in a month or something?
01:47:33
Like, geez. It's like getting an RSVP to a wedding. It's like if you don't do it by this time, you don't get to come to the wedding.
01:47:39
Yes. Right? Same thing. What we're demanding is that you wrap it up. But also just like what is the answer to that?
01:47:46
Yeah. Would those names bring them any closer to finding like would that help center that killer?
01:47:53
Right. Because it's who was that killer? Yeah Yeah it seems random the victims It doesn seem like that suddenly everyone would be like oh it that guy But it could be like your fucking murderer where it like yeah everyone knew it was the bartender wherever the place they all went to
01:48:08
Yes, that's my obsession. Your obsession is cold cases. My obsession is wolf hiding in plain sight.
01:48:14
Wolf in sheep's clothing. Monster hiding in plain sight. That is such an ultimate brain.
01:48:21
The wall in your brain is built so high. Yeah. And behind it, you're doing the most heinous things. And like, but then you're just in the world able to blend.
01:48:31
Because we want these people who do such a thing to be so obviously out there and disconnected from us. But when they're not, they're like, maybe even better at socializing in society than definitely me.
01:48:45
oh they're masters yes exactly spoiler but this is like the that episode from widow's bay where
01:48:51
it's the clown killer and he oh my god he hangs out with him as soon as i saw him i was like he
01:48:58
that guy but then that part where he is in the crawl space he squats down like hey buddy need
01:49:04
some help it's the scariest words you've ever heard right that's what's so scary it's like
01:49:09
uncanny that's why i think we like messy people because we're like oh they don't have their shit
01:49:12
together enough to be like a cunning secret murderer no they're all all their shit's on the
01:49:17
table and they can't seem to get it picked back up they're just it's just there enjoy i like a
01:49:23
messy pickup sticks of a person i like consumes nice clarity and no hiding especially murderous
01:49:30
impulses okay now we are going to get into good things of the week for this episode
01:49:34
i think this holic this nuclear holocaust is coming now this is the end where we say something
01:49:43
positive well i guess the upswing after the murder i had such a good time doing jack shit
01:49:50
over the holidays that i'm like you know what when the nuclear vince and i are gonna hole up
01:49:54
in here we've got water we've got cat food i will like to say this to another i got in an
01:49:58
argument with someone about how i wouldn't eat my cats what the fuck and they were like you have to
01:50:03
I just remembered I got really mad at this guy, my friend's cousin at the Magic Castle.
01:50:09
Good. Because we got in this argument about like, you would eat your cats. I'm like, I'd kill myself before I eat my cats if I have to.
01:50:17
And he's like, no, you wouldn't. I'm like, fuck you. I got so mad. And I was like, why am I talking to this guy?
01:50:23
And turned away. Also, first of all, have you ever seen this cat? There's not an ounce of meat on his body.
01:50:29
That's what I was saying. For what, three extra days? That's just giblets. Yeah.
01:50:32
I mean, you got nothing going on in that cat. That pouch on his belly is just skin.
01:50:37
Yeah, you could chew on it, but still. So I'd have three extra days of living knowing I'd eaten my cat.
01:50:43
I'd rather just die. Sorry, why are we entertaining this? This is a person that's someone's cousin.
01:50:48
You don't even know them, and they're telling you how you would be. Do they know that my cats have Instagram accounts?
01:50:53
Yeah, they don't know shit about your cats. Your cats are money makers. You're not going to eat them?
01:50:58
I love my cats so much that I have an Instagram account for them. I'm not going to eat them.
01:51:02
That's the only way to prove love anymore. I know. Yeah. Like when a vet tries to tell me about how to take care of my cats, I'm like, they have
01:51:08
an Instagram account. Clearly, that's like all I think about. And then you slam the door.
01:51:11
Yeah. And they have 6,600 followers. Bill me. Anyhow, so peace and love to everybody.
01:51:19
Oh, this is what I was going to say. Don't take the nuclear strike off your worry table.
01:51:24
Okay. Because there are just reams and loads of people in between. There is no button on his desk.
01:51:33
Okay. That's not how it's happening. And there's people, there's things happening.
01:51:37
Do you think that they put like one of those staples? We got, you got that buttons on his desk.
01:51:42
I'm like, here. And it goes bing bong. And he keeps pressing it. Yeah, there's, it's not, it's not going to go down like that.
01:51:50
Okay. All right. I'll worry about other things in the meantime. I feel like, I feel like there's so much to worry about.
01:51:56
And that one is so overarching. as a child of the, as a true child of the nuclear age, where that was actually a true concern of
01:52:04
ours. Like they would talk to us about it in school. That's how old I am. Don't do that to
01:52:10
yourself. Cause it's just, you know, it's just because in the dark thing to say, but it's like,
01:52:16
because you, maybe the thing you should be worried about is getting hit by a bus.
01:52:20
Like you just don't know. We don't know. I'm thinking globally and I, with problems and I
01:52:25
need to think locally you need to act locally yeah that's right locally with problems and i need to
01:52:29
make you a martini clearly oh man i'm just saying i'm just saying and i know i've said this before
01:52:35
i'm really good being a drunk i'm just like i don't slur i don't try to tell you secrets
01:52:40
i don't fucking do any of that shit why would i want to hang out with you and give you a drink
01:52:44
because i bring all this other stuff to the table slurring and secrets are my favorite how do you
01:52:49
feel about fistfights because i think as a girl you probably haven't gone into the realm the way
01:52:54
you could have the way you can. But in one fist fight. Do you know that I do? I've never actually
01:53:00
gotten into a fist fight. But one time in a total whiskey blackout at on New Year's at the San
01:53:08
Francisco punchline in the 90s, I a girl leaned across the bar and started yelling at the bartender.
01:53:15
Now, it could have been his girlfriend. She could have been doing a bit. It was a comedy club. I do
01:53:19
not know what was going on. All I know is the next thing I did is grab her finger and twist it around
01:53:24
her back. And because it, the bartender was really nice and it made me like what she was doing was so
01:53:31
fucking irritating to me. And then the next thing I knew there was a big circle of people standing
01:53:37
way back from me and the girl was crying and going, why did you do that? And then I was like,
01:53:42
Oh, what did I do? I had no idea what I did. And then my friend like basically had to usher me out
01:53:48
because I, I was like, wait, what happened? And I didn't know that I'd finger assaulted her.
01:53:54
You not getting a drink I sorry It gets pretty serious pretty quick But it sounds fun It is fun Well you know what it is Because you know sometimes you go out and nothing happens
01:54:06
That would never happen with me. There's always something is going to go down. Oh, man. All right. Last day on the planet. Yeah. Meet me here. Great. With a bottle of.
01:54:18
Well, let's go out. Let's meet here and then we're going to go somewhere. Okay. Yeah,
01:54:22
We'll start here. Oh, and you know, Vince is like the funniest drunk. He's the greatest.
01:54:28
Yeah. And he'd probably be able to keep me in line. Yeah. Steven, you're our designated driver.
01:54:33
Perfect. No. Steven, you're going to do last day Uber. And it'll be a van so we pick people up.
01:54:42
Yeah. So stay sober. And in the meantime, I'll start doing some research about one of those weird hidden bunkers that holds 500 people.
01:54:51
We'll figure out where there is one that a man's been working on for years. We'll go have a rave.
01:54:55
Since the 80s. And we'll just collect up drugs. We'll get people who have good drugs, good liquor, good personalities, and we'll all go into a mountain.
01:55:04
Lots of dogs. Dogs would be fun, but then there's cats. He can go in like a backpack or something.
01:55:09
Okay. All right. All right, great. That's my happy thought. Perfect. I feel like we just did that.
01:55:16
Yeah, I mean, I think that's, we covered that. There's lots to be stressed about these days, but also don't forget in your stress, then also just start making up a fun plan to kind of counteract your stress.
01:55:27
I think it relieves tension. Something to look forward to. For sure. Okay. I like it.
01:55:36
And we're back. Does it bother? You know what bothers me? that I was guessing something was going to happen in the world in the near future. And I was off by
01:55:47
like a nuclear strike and a virus. I was definitely of the idea that an antibiotic resistant
01:55:54
virus would happen. But so it's just like a little bit off. If I had fucking got it right,
01:56:01
man, I'd be the president. You'd be dead. Yeah, I'd be like the NASA scientist. Actually,
01:56:08
That would be a horrible fucking thing. Also to compare, but it's like the stand where just like the massive, insane, like you want
01:56:17
to think that you would be able to know when something like a deadly, fast spreading virus
01:56:23
is going to come out and just wipe out a big part of the planet. Nope. Tell yourself you would know the signs and signals.
01:56:31
Of course. But here we are. I told you that we were in the smokehouse the other night and there was an emergency
01:56:36
alert that came up on the TV screens and then everyone's phones started going off.
01:56:41
Oh, get out of, don't be in a crowd right now. What was it? I was with Scotty Landis and I looked over and I'm like, yep, this is where, this is exactly
01:56:48
where we'd be when the nuclear bombs go off. That's not a bad place to be though. They got
01:56:53
good martinis. Not at all. Lock us in. Hell yeah. Get the valet guys in here and let's lock these doors. That's right.
01:57:01
So this episode was originally named Decompressions, which I love. It sounds like a massage therapy store in the mall.
01:57:09
But if we were naming it today, we could call it, for example, proactive sexism.
01:57:15
That seems like a double negative, doesn't it? I think so. Or what if it's super positive?
01:57:21
What if it turns out to be the answer? Yeah, that's right. Okay, we could also call it mansplaining asteroids, of course.
01:57:27
I like that one. Or original jersey. A high quality cow. garbage based activities is good i love that one uh and then off your worry table i love a worry
01:57:40
table that's good and then of course nobody has to worry because if something big happens we'll
01:57:44
all go into a mountain that's my big plan yay for mountains we've done it raving a mountain pick
01:57:50
your favorite title that's what we do yep and other than that that's this week's episode of
01:57:56
the rewind let's go back to good old 2018 and let my sweet baby boy elvis say goodbye
01:58:02
thanks for listening you guys welcome to 2018 guys we're so happy to be in this year with you
01:58:11
we're gonna do it we're gonna we're gonna make this year count we are uh so stay sexy and don't
01:58:16
get murdered bye elvis you want cookie whoa that was a good one he's right there he's so ready
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