97 - The Hague | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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Welcome. Welcome to my favorite murder. Why am I just repeating what you say? It's fun. It's like

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a call and response. Yeah. It's like, this is a real thing. I was making Nora my niece, Nora,

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she's 10, do cheers with me. Oh my God. I love, I love babies who cheer. There's nothing better.

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She, we have video. She used to do it when she was like four years old, but now she doesn't care.

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Now she's like into sports and stuff, but I was making her like in my dad's living room while he watched football and ignored us.

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I made her stand up and do cheers from my school and it was making me laugh so hard.

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Oh my God. It was like, we had a good, we had a nice Thanksgiving. How was yours?

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It was great. We went with some friends too, uh, because my mom and I aren't speaking, which is great.

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So I was able to just go to a fucking old school steakhouse with Vince and our friends.

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Oh yeah. And have a nice time where I didn't have anxiety attacks and go to the bathroom and need to breathe and take Xanax and drink a lot.

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I mean, I still drink a lot. Well, that's but it was your choice. Right. You didn't feel like you were trying to escape.

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No, I was feeling I was trying to be like part of it. Yes, that's good. How was yours?

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It was great. We I think I may have told you this, but we basically revolted on my dad because normally we drive down into the Bay Area.

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We go to Daly City or we go to Pacifica or some, it's somewhere on the peninsula or whatever.

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We always go to our families and they, all of them are in San Francisco or South.

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And this year my sister's like, I'm so tired. I'm so, I like can barely move. And I was like, we don't have to go.

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Like aunt Jo, our family isn't going to be like, how dare you? They're not, they're not like that.

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Yeah. My mom is right. I mean, it can be pressure. My dad is. So we had to like, since when did you give a shit about Thanksgiving?

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Yeah. There's no religion attached to it. It's just fucking feeding the shit out of yourself.

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But it's like a family time. And yeah, we had to, my sister's the one, I'm saying we, but she's the one that did all the putting the foot down.

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But then we went to Adrian's with her family and it was super fun. Chill and fun.

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I love when sports are on. It's loud. And I love when fucking food is everywhere.

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Is there a baked brie? I hope so. Sure was. Nuh-uh. Oh, yeah. There were samosas because Adrian's mother-in-law is from Sri Lanka.

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Oh, my God. I fucking love that so much. I hung out with her a lot. Pushpa, she's one of my favorite people.

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She's the one that when Nora was five, she asked Nora what she wanted to be when she grew up.

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Nora said, I want to be a cheerleader. And Pushpa said, don't be a cheerleader, be a doctor.

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And Nora does that impression and says it all the time. A lot of badass women. I love her.

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In our neck of the woods. don't be a chair like that um well i'm looking forward to i'll be in vegas far away train for a

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far away train we're going to vegas for christmas nice i'm excited about and and fuck and fuck it

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the rest of the month fuck it you get holidays should be a holiday yeah they really should

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yeah we want to vince and i are talking about how we can um show up at the family hanukkah party

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like ridiculously. So like one thing is that we get a Hummer limo for just the two of us

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and have it wait outside the whole night. And then I walk in wearing that amazing

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dress that has yours in my face all over it. Oh my God. Where's that from again?

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Oh, like who made it? No, but it's like someone made it and it's a website where you can get it.

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And a couple of girls have worn it to the meet and greet. There is nothing more disorienting.

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It's so weird. And amazing. Then somebody walking up with a, because it's not like pictures or whatever.

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No. It like one step further where someone has made material of our faces and then knives and cats and like all the things that we like Knives and cats Knives and cats It so bananas So I want to wear that to the Hanukkah party Good idea And then you just going to burn all the bridges at one time with one fell swoop

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Yep. One swell swoop. A fell swoop. A swell swoop. Mm-hmm. Well, I was going to tell you at Thanksgiving, because now everybody knows my once secret

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passion that's now a very public passion of loving true crime. There was someone that had a Charles Manson story.

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He died. We don't care. The end. Yes. But somebody at our Thanksgiving dinner, when he was just by chance, met Charles Manson, like walking through a jail.

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What? Knew someone that was in a holding cell. He was like a teenager. And they had been messing around and whatever.

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And he like shook Charles Manson's hand. And it was when the cops had arrested him for like stealing car parts, but they didn't know that the Tate LaBianca murders had just happened.

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Wait, so they, why did he shake his hand then? Because it was just the guy he was talking to in the cell was like, hey, why are you here?

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Why are you here? It was one of those things. And then they're like laughing. It was both of them are just like, oh, it's this dumb misdemeanor, like no big deal.

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And then, but the guy in the cell goes, oh, this is Charlie. And then the guy at our dinner, like shook his hand.

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And it was like, oh, hey, how's it going? That is fucking bananas. And I bet not a lot of people have a story like that.

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It was awesome. And also, the guy that told the story is a really good storyteller.

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Yeah. Real casual, very Petaluma. Yeah. And it lets just little bits out here and there.

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Exactly. Draws you in and all this. But also very like, he's very much himself. So it was like, you could see him doing it.

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He was, I think at the time. And it wasn't like a story he told all the time. And he was like bragging about it.

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It was like, oh, yeah. In fact, I wonder if I'm allowed to even be telling this story.

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Now that I think about it. Bleep his name out, and then we'll move on. Bleep his name and relation out.

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Stephen, cut that. Don't cut it. Stephen, bleep that? Bleep it. That's a new one.

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Stephen, bleep that. Yes. I want to talk to you about... Well, so they caught...

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Is this a confrontation? Yeah. I want to talk to you about your problem. I've been wanting to talk to you.

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No more macaroni and cheese. No. Please order the macaroni and cheese balls that they do now.

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Like a deep fried macaroni and cheese. Do you know what I ate the night? Oh, God.

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Was it the night of Thanksgiving? Oh, my God. After we went to fucking this crazy steakhouse, ate this crazy meal, we went and drank the rest of the night.

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You know, you like eat at four o'clock Thanksgiving. Yeah. So by the time we get home at like 11 or whatever, Vince and I are hungry again and drunk.

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Yes. And so we made a Stouffer's French Red Pizza. Hell yes. And fucking frozen mac and cheese.

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Yes. The night of Thanksgiving. Stouffer's? No, it might have been like Trader Joe's or something.

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But still. Yeah. Some nice oven mac and cheese. Yeah. I'm not fucking here to talk about Stouffer's.

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I'm here to just talk about their French Red Pizza, which is my fucking favorite thing ever.

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Yes. That's an American classic. That is totally unsung. People like to talk about, I don't know, apple pie and Chevrolet.

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Yeah. Or like fancy pizza. Fucking a pizza that someone was like, look, old bread.

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We're going to put tomato sauce and cheese on it. And like weird little triangles of the saltiest, best pepperoni you've ever had.

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That's like, don't come at me with the fucking Supreme. Don't come at me with the fucking cheese.

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I want those fucking tiny triangles of pepperoni. that bring it's immediately bring me back to like spending the night at someone else's house

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where I'm like my parents would never let us eat this for a dinner definitely you're at a

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parent's house where they're like coke out of a can at the table and a stover's french bread pizza

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what the fuck oh my god that's so true it's the so exciting it's like a total celebration yeah

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or it also is like you're eight you've been left home alone you've been given directions turn the

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stove on then turn the stove off yeah don't burn down the house we'll be back at 11. My yeah 11

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they need a party harder than that um well that's what they'd say but you'd be asleep by the time

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they came back at two right exactly like we came home at 11 and we were totally sober um okay so

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then speaking of serial killers they which Manson wasn't it was just a he was just a

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He was like a drug dealer. Piece of shit. The Florida, the Tampa Seminole Heights serial killer, they think they caught him.

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Oh, right. Yes. Are they 100% that it's him? It's pretty fucking certain. I'm 100% that it's him.

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I am too, so that must be right. Because if you tell me something once on social media, it is locked law in my head forever.

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Karen doesn't want to hear more than 140 fucking characters about it. Actually, 10 is fine.

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10 is fine. Just be like, they caught him. Great. And they don't even have to say who it is.

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she'll believe. No, but I'm not interested in his business. That's none of my business,

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what his name is. Not interested. Well, I'm looking forward to seeing how that unfolds.

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If he worked in a fucking Popeye's at any point, the fact that he did work in a McDonald's.

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But it gives me hope. Hold on though. Did he work at McDonald's or was he arrested at

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McDonald's? Both. He had worked at McDonald's before and he was arrested at the McDonald's.

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But we don't know about Popeye's. That's just from our email. So we had an email

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a couple episodes back where this girl, these girls were like, we got an Uber car,

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an Uber car. And the driver was like, I think I drove the serial killer. He had worked at Popeye's.

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Right. So the fact that he had worked at one fast food place makes me think that he had

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maybe had a job at another fast food place at some point in his life. Also, if he really was

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a serial killer, he could have worked at McDonald but that was his cover Like he thought oh I lie and say I work at Popeye and I never catch me Or maybe because if the McDonald if I remembering correctly that he wasn a McDonald employee anymore he had another job

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And maybe it was like currently a fucking Popeye's employee. That's right. Because if he has the experience of dropping those fries for three minutes, pulling them back out, salting them as and I would encourage you to salt them thoroughly.

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Because what's more heartbreaking than fresh McDonald's French fries that are you're all ready and you're like, oh, I shouldn't be doing this.

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I'm doing it. And then you stick one in your mouth and there's no salt or very little salt.

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I don't think that's ever happened to me at McDonald's. It hasn't? No. It's happened to me a couple of times.

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I have good French fry luck. Fuck. I have the worst because also I'm like, I shouldn't be doing this.

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Right. I didn't be doing it. And you're like, well, now I have to fucking double down and put the sauce on myself.

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Yeah. Or you get like older ones. Just like they've been around. No. Mm-mm. Nope.

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Listen, this is the episode called Let's Talk About Junk Food. This is the episode called Sure, You Want to Hear About Serial Killers,

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but we want to talk about how French fries break down. And we just realized that we're hungry.

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And maybe that's the problem. I've had a bowl of fucking raisin bran for dinner tonight.

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Oh, that's good. And half a vodka soda. Oh. You've got your fiber. Mommy is full.

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You've got your fruit. Did you put a little lime in there? Good. Fucking citrus.

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No scurvy for you, gal. Okay. Here's the fun part. Speaking of Tampa, we put the Florida episode up last Orlando episode up last week, right?

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Yes. Yes. Because we were like, we're Thanksgiving. Goodbye. Yeah. We're out of town.

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And I would just like to say I am fresh off the highway 5 driving for fucking six hours to get back down here.

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Straight to the record. Straight to George's house. Love it. Thank you. No, no. Sacrifice.

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I know that's not what you're saying. More of an excuse for my performance. Okay.

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So in the episode of Orlando, I did Eileen Wuornos. Yes, you did. And at one point we mentioned Lando Lakes, Florida.

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Yes. At which point we kind of both admitted that we lost our shit because it's like, wait, that's really a place that was just a butter.

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We thought it was just a fucking, it's not a condiment. What is it? It's a dairy product.

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Dairy product. We both lost our shit. We got starstruck about butter. Yeah. Two things.

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One, it turns out, I just want to go ahead and say it turns out it's actually made in Minnesota.

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Right. But there's more than one Lando Lakes. Right. But there is a Lando Lakes.

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okay the other thing is i was doing my fucking normal etsy late night scrolling and this the

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this thing randomly popped out that was like maybe etsy thinks she might like this and i was like well

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i'm gonna buy that for karen immediately and give it to you a month before christmas because i can't

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fucking wait that long yeah no chill whatsoever are you ready for this i'm actually pulling it

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from behind the couch cushions right now so if it was a stick of butter from etsy this butter smells

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vintage okay ready yes georgia it's a it's a fucking vintage like serving tray with the whole

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land of lakes theme seemingly take a photo of and post it on with karen's face oh my god no don't

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include my face your hair your hair looks hair up i'm gonna go like this hair up i've just invented

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the new selfie for ladies over 45 yeah who've been driving for eight fucking hours there it is

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we'll put it on instagram this time we promise we always say we will but isn't that amazing okay

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can i just tell you first of all this is gorgeous it's a gorgeous tray like it's very solid it

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doesn't look i mean it it's clearly um vintage but it's perfect quality yeah and then why am i

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telling you how much how cheap it was one dollars no but it's a beautiful picture yeah like i want

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to hang this on the wall like a picture i know but then on top of it this every time we go to

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an antique store when we're on the road these you pick these up i do every time you pick up a

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decorative tray oh shit a tech decorative chin triangle oh i could put i could fit it no i have

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room and then like you argue with yourself and with Vince yeah isn't this perfect and then he's

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like what where what for and then you put it back down but this is your favorite I guess that's my

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thing you got me your favorite thing I thought it was so funny I fucking love it all right I'm

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taking it back oh no what also taking it back also thank you yeah and I love that this is like

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the girl the uh it's not supposed to be pocahontas herself is it i don't know it's just a

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representative young indian um yeah native it's like a native american a native sorry

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native american we all know who the land of lakes butter girl is yeah woman jesus but cut all of

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this she's holding her own package of land of lakes butter so it's the same image on it yes

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it's the picture within the picture oh my god i'm freaking out it's the fucking what's it called uh

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what was that great movie not the matrix inception inception thank you steven inception

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we're inceptioning land a lake style i would love we should do a heavy drug okay and then just go

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into this picture go on okay and then stare until we're in the picture this is so good thank you so

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i love it i'm genuinely excited and then if i can continue to fucking hold the floor please can i

00:17:34

mentioned. So we're in the pod loft again. Hold that floor. Are you what's that called when they do that in the

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Senate? Oh! Like when you pee out in front of everybody? What's it called? Bad Mash.

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Filibuster? Yes! Yes, I'm filibustering because we back in the pod loft after like months because over Thanksgiving break my one thing of like Vince we have to do is we have to clean up the pod loft It great

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And so in one of the boxes, we found this painting by this girl. Okay, this painting, I want to talk about it.

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I have to redo this thing. So it's a painting of like a charcoal drawing of Elvis, my cat.

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it's a little wonky and weird but at the same time it's kind of like it's artistic and gorgeous

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it's gorgeous um and i was like did that get sent in the mail yeah and it i had like it was a big

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package so i just thrown it upstairs at like i don't know how long ago a while ago yes um and i

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and vince was like what's this i don't know we opened it i was like oh shit so then vince like

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read me the card and it says to all of us uh blah blah blah thank you for the minneapolis show

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she was there with her two favorite murderinos, Hannah and Ashley, all excited, blah, blah, blah.

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And then it says, I wanted to give you this rad watercolor of Elvis. I have no artistic talent

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at all. My husband, on the other hand, got drunk as fuck in our backyard one night and I woke up

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to this masterpiece. No, are you serious? Yeah, there was no question it had to be yours.

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I tried to get him to do one of Frank and George, but I think Elvis was his cross-eyed muse.

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thanks again ssdgm carrie that's amazing isn't that great it's really great it has a kind of um

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uh monet this it could be monet it could be manet uh mog delaney you know that one with the lady with

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the blue eyes that has the crazy long face look we'll fucking post this one as well shit look at

00:19:41

us posting shit oh no this is good i love it also you know what i don't think i ever thanked

00:19:46

remember the woman who gave me that amazing painting in um it may have also been in minneapolis

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there's a lady and i believe her name is clarissa i've had the thank you note on my desk

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and i hung that picture it's hanging in my one is the amazing one right it's the one that's it's

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basically uh it's a it's green rolling hills and then a blue sky but it's that progressive i have

00:20:10

to tell you how jealous i was when i saw that and she like it because it's so beautiful it's so

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beautiful and it's the frame is beautiful yeah like it's a very lovely thing and she basically

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the note was like basically it sounds like you're getting tired of murder so I painted this for you

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so you can just look at something else it's so nice it's so lovely and I don't think I ever thanked

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her uh and I hope to fucking god her name is Clarissa but I'm almost positive it is because

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I have the thank you note on my desk but anyway thank you Clarissa asterix I'll fix it next week

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if your name is not Clarissa. But also, I love it so much. I mean, I told her. We had a whole conversation face-to-face.

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Yeah, it was gorgeous. It was really cool. We love art. Hey, listen. Hey, art is our fucking thing.

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This podcast loft is not big enough for everything. We're going to have to buy a fucking bigger house.

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It's so cool. You guys, you wouldn't believe how many needlepoint go-fuck-yourselves are up on these walls.

00:21:05

Well, those two bins are full of art that we need to go through and hang. So I'm going to take a photo once we're done with that.

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And then on the other side of the wall, there's just wrestling memorabilia from Vince.

00:21:16

It's the perfect combination. Boys and girls. Speaking of memorabilia. God, I'm just fucking acting like this is my podcast.

00:21:25

No, no, no. You're fine. You know what it is? You're thinking of great segues. Okay.

00:21:29

That's all it is. We have new merch. Oh. Memorabilia. Merch. Hey, we have new merch.

00:21:37

We have our holiday design designed by our friend Kirsten Bencomo, who's fucking awesome.

00:21:43

We had two designs last year. It's like supposed like ugly holiday sweater style, but it's actually really cute.

00:21:49

And then we have a new one up this year. So you can get that. What's the new one?

00:21:57

It's the Here's the Thing, Fuck Everyone. No, OK. Here's the Thing, Fuck Everyone, Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered.

00:22:03

And then one that says something else. And then 15% of all of that merch for the end of the year when we take it down is going to RAIN, which stands for Rape and Abuse, Incest, Networks.

00:22:19

Yes. Something Network. Oh, what else do you have? Oh, I don't know. We're not probably going to do it on this episode.

00:22:28

I can't remember if we said we're going to do it separately. But my sweet Audrina is our book club.

00:22:33

We fucked that up. Because, Jesus fucking Christ. There's no way anyone, I'm sure people, there's definitely people who could have finished that book in like a day or two.

00:22:43

I'm certainly not one of those people. Well, I got mine late. I'm not going to fucking name the girl on Etsy who sent it out very fucking late and very fucking slowly.

00:22:51

I read a couple pages and I was like, well, this is kind of boring, right? And then I accidentally spoiled it and read What Happens.

00:22:59

And I'm like, oh, I don't want to read this. Well, yeah, I forgot about the fact that it is an incredibly problematic and triggering book for many people.

00:23:11

And it is from a time in the 80s where everybody pretended things like that didn't happen in real life.

00:23:17

So you could read a book about it and oh, my God, shocked and odd. Exactly. Can we quickly switch to Flowers in the Attic?

00:23:24

No, because it's the exact same thing. There's no difference. Well, they're choosing to bone.

00:23:32

No, they've been locked in an attic for years. Yes. They have no choice. That's true.

00:23:37

But yes, you're right. It's not sexual fucking assault that's been strangely romanticized.

00:23:43

On a goddamn nine-year-old. Well, spoiler alert. Oh, shit. Well, no, that comes out in the first beginning.

00:23:49

But here's the thing. I think it would be fun still to read a dumb book and talk about it.

00:23:55

Because I have gone through so many emotions. of trying to read that book, the phrase, the first and best Audrina.

00:24:03

Right. That's creepy as fuck. If you pulled that phrase out of the book, the book would only be 112 pages long.

00:24:10

It is repeated so many times. Oh, and that fucking cousin of hers who were like, obviously, it's not her cousin.

00:24:17

Like, we could think, like, I mean, like shit that, you know, now, and you didn't know when

00:24:21

you were 12. I've just really, really been enjoying the photos people are posting of

00:24:25

their copy because no one has a new copy. It's the best. And like, people are taking

00:24:29

photos with their cats and they're this and that. And then the like comments of like,

00:24:34

um, I can't, you know, the like, how the fuck did I read this at 11 years old? What the fuck?

00:24:40

Yes. This is why I'm this way. It's been really amusing. It's hilarious. Yeah. Also,

00:24:46

there is an aspect to it that I think is almost introductory. If you want to be a writer and

00:24:53

you're nine or 11 or whatever, hopefully not nine, hopefully you're 12. You're in a weird

00:24:59

junior high area and you find that book on your mom's shelf. Oh my God. And you start reading that

00:25:03

book. You are like, this is dramatic writing at its finest. It's one of those things too,

00:25:08

where it's like when you found the map of where Dahmer hit the bodies, Gacy, Gacy, you say to

00:25:15

yourself, Oh, I've been lied to by adults. And there is this life that I didn't understand. And

00:25:21

then you can't stop obsessing about it. Yes. That's like what those books are for 12 year old,

00:25:26

Because up until you read a V.C. Andrews book, you are sold the bill of goods that boys, if you just figure out the right thing to say or wear or wait to be your prettiness, they will love you in the end.

00:25:45

There's also intense, horrible violence on women. And then you're like, sorry, wait, what?

00:25:52

I'm barely getting the romance part and now we're going to do something. It's also like the sad thing of like you marry who like the mother marries this dude and she's unhappy and it's like, oh, you can do that.

00:26:02

OK, then I'll never get married until I'm 36. It seems as a kid reading it, you're like this.

00:26:09

These are all solvable problems. Like, why don't you just just break up? Yeah. Talk about it.

00:26:15

Name your kid Sarah instead of Adrena. Your second one. I mean, and there's all kinds of like, there's still incestuous overtones.

00:26:25

It's just not the direct flowers in the attic type of stuff. I mean, I do. The descriptions of her and her daddy sitting in the room.

00:26:33

Sometimes it got terrifying or something. And it's like, hang on. What? It's not.

00:26:39

It doesn't. Okay. I'm going to keep reading. Imagine in this day and age. Also, I will say this.

00:26:44

I will admit this. And some people did this and they said they were cheating. I don't think it's cheating, though.

00:26:49

Because that book, here's the fun of it. I had it at my sister's house. So every night we'd all go to bed.

00:26:56

Did you read it to Nora? No. Every night we'd go to bed and I'd read Nora to sleep.

00:27:01

How incredible would that be? Literally, Nora just started the Laura Ingalls Wilder series.

00:27:09

That's how nowhere near this she is. But I would go home and then I'd go, oh yeah, I have that dumb book to read.

00:27:15

And then I would get kind of excited. but I got a hardback copy with a big plastic cover that I was using as the bookmark

00:27:23

that every night I would fall asleep while I was reading it because it's the same,

00:27:27

roughly the same 11 sentences over and over again for 200 pages. So it would literally drop out of my hand and I would be asleep with the light on

00:27:36

and I would wake up at three in the morning like, what the fuck? I love it. And I would lose my place every night.

00:27:40

So I have reread the first 50 pages. It's like one step forward, two steps back every night.

00:27:47

So, yeah, that's a problem. There's a lot in there. But so on the drive down, I bought the audio book so I could like fill it in a little bit.

00:27:56

Brilliant. And I have to say the audio book is incredibly enjoyable. The woman reading it is doing a great job of being all these crazy people.

00:28:04

I never read books, but this time I was like, I am obligated to buy a vintage copy and read this.

00:28:10

Yes. That didn't sound right. I never have time to read books. Right. I don't know how to read.

00:28:15

I hate books I hate words just like Hitler okay audiobook everyone I mean sorry you know what

00:28:24

you have that in your fucking bookcase now and everyone's gonna admire it in your bookcase

00:28:29

doesn't matter well and also I think there's probably people who love it and are sitting there going

00:28:33

are you guys fucking crazy this book was awesome there's just so many ways to take this book in

00:28:39

this is why you have a book club I want to argue with those people right now but also I had that

00:28:42

that's right this is why you drink wine and sit in a circle. Hey. Because it shouldn't be a one direction.

00:28:49

This should be, wait, let's pause and let them say what they think about the book.

00:28:53

Go. Nope, I'm sorry. I need to stop you right there. You're totally wrong. I apologize, but I know I'm interrupting you.

00:28:59

Does anyone need anything? Does anyone need crackers? Crackers? Crackers? Gluten-free crackers.

00:29:03

Oh my God, thank you so much for making that appetizer. Yes. Fill in your name here.

00:29:07

Blake. Blake Brie. Everyone loves a Blake Brie. I love Blake Lively's Brie. She makes the best kind.

00:29:13

Oh my God. She needs to get on that. You're welcome. I want to say really quickly, we have one last set of shows.

00:29:21

Sorry, I'm going to sidebar this. Okay. I just want to say I'm going to keep on reading My Sweet Audrina.

00:29:25

I'm sorry. And I'm going to keep on talking about My Sweet Audrina. I'm there with you.

00:29:29

Okay, great. Awesome. And also listening. Listening to a new podcast. My sweet, my favorite sweet Audrina.

00:29:37

The best and first Audrina. My favorite V.C. Andrews. Mm-hmm. The best and sweet, my first VC Andrews favorite, with Lando Lakes.

00:29:46

You just put your hands in the tray. The tray was next to me, and I decided I needed to put the tray on my lap.

00:29:51

I'm posing with it. It's pretty great. It's so good. Oh, you are. She posing like the Lando Lakes Native American woman Now it three Now it holding it and now I holding it Well if you look really closely in the package there probably a picture of her

00:30:07

There is. It's on this tray. There's four Native American women holding this thing.

00:30:14

Okay. Bye. Good. I think that's it. Great. Right? Yeah. That was two weeks worth of...

00:30:22

Yeah. We caught everyone up. Yeah. who goes first this week based on our new algorithm of who should go first this week

00:30:29

in my opinion yeah yours is going to be better purely because i slept today yeah you slept today

00:30:36

you didn't do six hours of driving and you didn't write it quickly mine is more of a uh yeah i think

00:30:43

you should go first plus all i've seen you eat in the past three hours that you've been here

00:30:46

is peach gummies from the gas station from the gas station i don't know how you're surviving off of

00:30:52

that i had at least some raisin nice raisin bran you had a nice bowl of raisin bran i had a hamburger

00:30:58

on the highway what kind burger king okay here's good here's the thing that's a little worrisome to

00:31:04

me i mean we all know russia's invading this country oh yeah so that's worrisome overall yes

00:31:10

like we're not we're not trying to belittle any of the problems one little thing in karen's mind

00:31:15

is is that we this is a red dawn very slow quiet red dawn situation that we're in right now okay

00:31:21

But on top of that, driving down the five, I have every exit memorized because I've been doing it for over 20 years.

00:31:28

Yeah. So it's like, I know I'm like, do I want, do I feel like a Foster's Freeze situation?

00:31:35

Or am I just going to go subway? Yes. Do I need to go clean and light and not get depressed?

00:31:41

Or do I not give a fuck? And is this my time to shine? Yeah. Whatever. Exit after exit, everything is closed, abandoned.

00:31:51

The foster freeze is abandoned. No. Yeah. That's creepy. There's hotels that are abandoned.

00:31:57

I haven't taken that drive in a long time. It's fucking... And also, a shit ton of the trees.

00:32:02

Those almond farmers, a lot of those... They're abandoned? Farmers... The trees are abandoned.

00:32:06

They had to stop because the water got cut off because of the drought. So there's entire groves of trees that are dead and pushed over.

00:32:15

And then the foster freeze has fucking graffiti on it. End of days. It's nutso. Fucking end of days, people.

00:32:22

Guys, we can't. All the money's at the top. It needs to come back down. It's literally nutso because we're talking about almond trees.

00:32:29

It's nutso. We got to rise up. All right, go ahead. I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people

00:32:38

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00:32:48

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00:32:54

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00:33:00

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Listen to Bleep with Anna Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:33:14

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00:33:44

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00:34:15

so the other night i was falling asleep to my audio book that i always fall asleep to

00:34:25

it's either uh some space fucking story or space jam yes i was thinking that too

00:34:34

the the soundtrack to space jam yes or whoever fights monsters yes that book we love the best

00:34:40

falling asleep, couldn't fall asleep, listening. And I was like, wait, what's this about this case?

00:34:48

Had you never heard of it before? I think I'd heard about it. Like some people on the Facebook group had written about it here and

00:34:54

there. So I'd maybe heard about it. And also Mindhunter, even though the show, there's like

00:35:00

a couple of cases that are similar. It's not one of them. But I was like intrigued. Let's do this.

00:35:05

Okay. So in June of 1973, the Jaeger family of Farmington, Michigan, they go camping at a campground in Montana's Waterhead State Park. It's near the small town of Manhattan, Montana. Right? Yeah.

00:35:23

New York, Montana. It's their first trip, or sorry, it's their first stop on a month-long trip.

00:35:28

They're going like, we're going to fucking, this is our first family camping trip, and

00:35:32

we're going to drive and all this shit, all the fun stuff that is fun when you're a kid.

00:35:37

So that night, the parents tuck their five children into the kid's tent. Oh, no.

00:35:46

Uh-huh. But. Just those words alone. Uh-huh. But three are teenagers. Three of the kids are teenagers.

00:35:53

and then two are grade schoolers. So they like great They together They safe They should be safe right Yep They fucking should be Yeah And also it the 70s where not only are they together and safe but some people would be like yeah this you can leave them alone for four months

00:36:08

Yeah. A pack of cigarettes, a carton, maybe. You're all good. Yeah. So that morning around 4 a.m., one of the teens in the tent, Heidi Yeager, wakes up and notices that her little sister, seven-year-old Susie, is not in the tent any longer.

00:36:27

And not only that, there's a fucking slash through the side of the tent. No. Uh-huh.

00:36:34

And there's a hook hand hanging on the top of the... Fuck. This is like, this is urban myth shit.

00:36:39

Uh-huh. Okay. She fucking flips out, wakes her parents up. No one in the tent, none of her siblings, had heard a freaking thing.

00:36:48

They had just were fast asleep. Authorities are called. Go ahead. I just wanted to say the first thing.

00:36:56

Somebody slowly slashing that tent open. Quietly. A little rip of the fucking fibers.

00:37:03

Quietly and slowly. It wasn't a quick, fast one. So much scarier than a fast one.

00:37:08

I didn't think of that, and now I want to cry. Yeah, me too. And turn around, there's a fucking wall mural of a fucking forest behind you, like where they were camping.

00:37:16

Fuck, okay. Oh my God. Okay. Authorities are called, like, immediately. They find footsteps leading away from the tent.

00:37:27

And so the FBI is called because, so at the time, the FBI would only get involved in kidnapping cases if it was a possibility that they were taken across state lines.

00:37:36

Yeah. Which is fucking bananas. So they're called because maybe that was going to be a thing.

00:37:41

I don't know. And then ensues the biggest search at the time in Montana history.

00:37:47

They fucking drug the river bottom. They had helicopters circling. They did all this crazy shit, but Susie could not be found.

00:37:56

I think a couple days later, one random call, like ransom call came in. But saying, we want this much money.

00:38:06

We'll give her back. We'll call back with details. but no call was ever, no call came back.

00:38:11

Just the one call? Just the, we'll call you about the ransom. Nothing came back.

00:38:14

So almost a year later, the case is fucking stalled. And Special Agent Pete Dunbar, he is an agent in the FBI's Montana office.

00:38:26

He's attending a training session led by Howard Teaton and Patrick Mullaney. These two dudes are developing the FBI's newly formed behavioral science unit.

00:38:38

Oh, hell yeah. Hi. That's right. Exactly. Hello. Hello, Mindhunter. Hi. You guys are the ones that are thinking that maybe all these guys have something in common.

00:38:46

Right. Maybe if we study and interview thousands of murderers and murderers, we'll get something.

00:38:52

Yeah. So before the units even was created, there's not a lot known about criminal profiling.

00:38:59

and their goal was to bring a public awareness to the psychology of murder and behavioral analysis.

00:39:06

This agent Dunbar dude is like, please take a look at this case. We need your help.

00:39:11

Which is like so big of him because back then there were so few. I feel like that was not a thing where you like asked for help from other heroes.

00:39:17

No, that was a huge deal. That's why in that show, those parts were so good because it would be like they would come to talk about one thing

00:39:23

and there would be the guy that would hang behind me like, can I ask you? Sneak up.

00:39:27

Yeah. They all did. It was almost like they had to make sure no one knew. It was like emasculating by asking for help.

00:39:33

Right. Right. Okay. So this, although Teaton and Mulaney have been studying this stuff for a long fucking time,

00:39:43

this turns into the first real case where they get to use their behavioral analysis.

00:39:48

Oh. So this is the first case where this is used in real life. IRL, as they would say later.

00:39:56

LOL. LOL. IRL, FBI, OMG. Crazy. Okay, so the three of them together, the three agents, they profile the case based on their studies and come to the conclusion that whoever had taken Susie, so this is their profile of him, they come upon the family during a habitual night prowl and impulsively took her by cutting through the tent.

00:40:18

So it was not planned, but he was doing his like fucking rounds of maybe. He'd spotted an opportunity and acted.

00:40:24

He appeared to be, they thought he was a young white male, a loner, lived not far from the campsite.

00:40:31

So a local. They thought he had military experience because the fact that he fucking broke into this tent and pulled a person out without anyone hearing it is so stealth.

00:40:39

It's creepy. And he had killed before and possibly since. Ooh. This is like a year after her kidnapping.

00:40:48

And then they were like, listen, Susie's probably dead, too. that they were like, this is part of it.

00:40:56

And that they said that he also probably collected trophies from the victim. So before these two had been called in,

00:41:05

an informant had called and suggested that his neighbor, David Mirhofer, should be looked at.

00:41:14

It was his neighbor. He's fucking creepy. Like one of those, like, this guy is weird.

00:41:17

You should look at him, which usually we scoff at because we're like, weirdos are not killers.

00:41:21

Yeah. So David Muirhofer is a 23-year-old Vietnam vet who Agent Dunbar actually knew personally.

00:41:30

He said, quote, David was well-groomed, courteous, and exceptionally intelligent.

00:41:35

He was the gentlest of persons, too. Oh. Murderer, right? Yeah, I mean, it's not a good sign.

00:41:42

Look, and he was innocent. Moving on to the real suspect. Yes. No, I'm not doing that.

00:41:46

We know that that's not how it works on Law and Order. they so the local FBI law enforcement

00:41:53

had questioned David and he was he was polite well dressed really helpful so they didn think it was him He had even taken a polygraph test and taken truth serum and had fucking passed both flying fucking colors

00:42:09

Okay. Do we believe him? No. Oh, okay, no. Oh. You do. You do. Well, I was just thinking.

00:42:17

Okay, maybe. He did it. I just want to let him. He's the killer. I just want to let everyone know.

00:42:23

Shit. I know. Because the one thing I was, one of my theories was going to be at that time, Vietnam vets

00:42:29

were shat upon in this country. And had bad PTSD. Had PTSD, but also were judged by others.

00:42:36

But not by law enforcement. I think they respected Vietnam vets. Oh, I guess. But I guess I'm just saying the person that would call in and be like, this guy, you know

00:42:44

what I mean? Baby killer. It's that shit that was like, they really attacked people for that.

00:42:50

And so I was thinking maybe that it was like, oh, he's violent because he was made.

00:42:53

he's made to go into the army sure but that doesn't mean yeah no he did it okay okay that's

00:42:58

a real relief i'm not like spoiling it's like i'm only talking about him as no i love it so it's

00:43:03

fine okay so melanie and teton had seen but they okay so now they these two profilers come in and

00:43:11

they use their fucking tactics and they're like show us all the suspects you had they read his

00:43:17

chart and they're like, I'm sorry, this guy, it doesn't fucking matter. They thought that he was

00:43:25

a psychopath and he would have no problem passing a polygraph test, which they had never heard of

00:43:30

before this. Yes. Because he was a fucking, he was able to disassociate himself from the person

00:43:36

who had been, who had killed someone. Yes. So he was like, it's not fucking me. And so I'm not lying

00:43:42

because I'm not that person. Right. And also the thing I love about psychopaths,

00:43:46

I mean psychopaths, they don't get nervous. Right. They don't get nervous. They don't have stress reactions to things.

00:43:52

When I watched the old YouTube, it was one of those old true crime shows where there was an FBI head guy

00:44:01

who was the narrator. Yeah. So there was no charisma whatsoever. Because he was the real guy.

00:44:06

Because he was the real guy. It wasn't like a fucking charming journalist. A miscarina type?

00:44:12

Yeah, like a journalist. Sure. They said, like, you know, they believed polygraph tests, polygraph tests implicitly.

00:44:22

So this was, like, brand new as well. Yeah. Blah, blah, blah, blah, currently. They thought he was the killer, for sure, these two dudes, Mulaney and Teton.

00:44:31

But everyone else was like, hell, fucking no, you're wrong. Even Dunbar, they were like, uh-uh, dude, it's not him.

00:44:37

That was a quote, a direct quote. But then, okay, then they're able to convince the Yeagers, the fucking mother and father of Susie.

00:44:48

Now they're back in Michigan. They said, okay, we think this is the kind of killer that will contact you again.

00:44:54

Because they want to be part of the investigation. It's the kind of thing where they want to be friends with cops.

00:44:59

Which fucking David Meyerhofer was. Chatty with cops. Just like our boy Ed Kemper.

00:45:06

Exactly. They think that the kind of killer wants to insert themselves in the investigation and stay part of the victim's lives and continue to inflict pain.

00:45:16

So gross. I know. OK. So they're like, let's tape. Let's put a tape recorder with your phone and let's set up a tap.

00:45:25

And they're like, hell yeah. All right. Meanwhile, Susie's mother, Marietta, she's a devout Catholic.

00:45:32

and initially she says that she was quote ravaged with hatred and desire for revenge and that also

00:45:39

she could have killed the man quote with my bare hands and a smile on my face yeah you're like girl

00:45:45

yes absolutely 100 then she was like as a devout catholic though she's like i she says she understood that her hatred was going to fucking kill her and she says i quote

00:45:56

called for i was called to forgive my enemies not to kill them so i made the commitment to work

00:46:02

toward an attitude of forgiveness. So through that year, she was able to come to terms and start

00:46:07

praying for whoever took her daughter, even if it was like, maybe he's alive. So I'm praying for,

00:46:12

you know, good weather that day, or I'm praying, you know, she started kind of opening her heart

00:46:17

to him, which is beyond incredible. Okay. Exactly one year to the fucking day. And Karen to the

00:46:26

fucking minute no 3 30 in the morning a call comes in oh uh-huh to the minute oh okay so the

00:46:37

kidnapper calls the yeagers okay initially so marietta answers the phone and initially the

00:46:43

caller tries to fuck with her and is like uh your daughter's still alive we've been traveling the

00:46:47

world and you're not you'll never see her again all this bullshit but marietta was unfuck with

00:46:53

and she fucking, instead of being intimidated, she spoke to him with compassion and patience

00:46:59

and she told him she prayed for him every day and that she forgave him and he fucking burst into tears

00:47:06

and starts fucking weeping. On the phone? Uh-huh. Holy shit! The call ends up being a fucking hour long

00:47:13

and they're talking. Are you fucking kidding me? I am not fucking kidding you. And then what, he confesses?

00:47:21

Not yet. Okay. this is nutso I know okay so they had an FBI voice analyst says the caller is definitely

00:47:31

David Muirhofer for sure but that is circumstantial evidence it's not sufficient to obtain

00:47:37

a probable cause search warrant of David's house and then so this is the fucking this is crazy to me

00:47:45

and I like it makes me sad so agent Mulaney says that the caller quote could be woman dominated meaning it could be dominated by a female somehow so he says to marietta

00:48:00

do us a favor, come back to Montana where your fucking seven-year-old daughter was fucking kidnapped

00:48:06

and have a face-to-face conversation with David Mirhoffer. She jumped on a fucking plane and I'm like, I hope they fucking paid for that plane ticket.

00:48:17

Can you imagine? There's no way she paid for that. I know, but how fucking crazy would that be?

00:48:23

No, no. I know, but still. She should have gone on like fucking Air Force One. Yeah.

00:48:29

First class. That would be a little crazy. Yeah, that would be like a waste of taxpayers' money.

00:48:33

Chartered plane. Right. Just first class. Something. Give her a meal on the way.

00:48:38

Oh, my God. This woman. I know. So she meets David Mirhofer at his lawyer's office, begs him to tell her about Susan.

00:48:47

He fucking clamps up. He won't talk. He's unmoved. He denies it. They're in there for an hour, and finally it's like, this isn't working.

00:48:54

So she leads. She goes back home to Michigan. and then David calls her again. This time he says something else like,

00:49:04

like, oh, hey, he says, my name is Mr. Travis. I'm the one who did it. Like trying to fucking trick her.

00:49:12

I'm the one who did it. It's not this other guy. And then Marietta goes, what's up?

00:49:17

Like, what's up, David? And he fucking loses his shit. She's just like, hi, David.

00:49:23

Wow. She fucking knows it. She knows. And he loses his shit. So by this time, though, the FBI is finally able to trace the call and they arrest him, trace the call to him, you know, and now they have enough evidence for a search warrant in his home.

00:49:39

Police discover everything's fine. Everything's fine. Open the freezer. Human remains.

00:49:46

There's packages that look like I guess they look like deli packages, you know? Yeah, like the pink paper.

00:49:51

Paper, yeah. and labeled with the initials of who the pieces belonged to. Not only do they belong to Susie,

00:50:01

one of the packages contained a hand, like an entire hand with nails, identified as a woman named Sandra Smolligan.

00:50:11

Sandra was a 19-year-old woman who had disappeared in 1974, so like after Susie.

00:50:17

Her remains had been found incinerated in the woods near an abandoned ranch. And it was known, and he had been questioned,

00:50:26

that she had refused a second date with David Muirhofer. But after he volunteered, but he, at that time,

00:50:35

way before all this, had volunteered to take a polygraph test and again fucking passed it.

00:50:39

So they were like, it's probably not him. But then they find her fucking hand in the freezer,

00:50:42

and they're like, it's him. Yeah. So after the search and his arrest, David Muirhofer confesses to killing both Susie and Sandra.

00:50:52

He said that Sandra had, here's the fucking bullshit of the day. He fucking says that Sandra had died of suffocation when he had broken into her apartment.

00:51:00

She's sleeping. He was going to kidnap her and like keep her. He puts duct tape over her face, goes to pack her bag and realizes that he had accidentally

00:51:09

put it over her nose too and she had suffocated from the duct tape. Why bother lying like that?

00:51:15

What's, I mean, come on everybody. Because then you don't seem like such a monster.

00:51:19

Yeah, to yourself. But everybody else still thinks you're a big asshole. Right, but he incinerated her body so no one could tell, you know?

00:51:25

That's so crazy. Quick sidebar, weird fact. In 2005, a crew was doing some remodeling work on a garage, the fucking building thing.

00:51:38

And they tore into a wall to change out the wall and found a wallet identification and a small wire bound notebook that belonged to Sandra.

00:51:48

Okay. 30 fucking years later, which is like my dream come true. My dream come goddamn true.

00:51:55

Let's rip all the walls out of this apartment. It's a new build. It doesn't matter.

00:52:00

Let's fucking do it. Was it on this podcast where we talked about our low key superpowers?

00:52:06

superpowers? No, we talked about that in person and it's one of my favorite things in the world.

00:52:10

Oh, someone asked us in a VIP line. Yes, that's right. They were like, hey, nice to meet you.

00:52:16

Let's take a photo, smiling. What's up? Really quickly, this is my favorite question. What's

00:52:21

your fucking low key superpower that's like not that big of a deal? And what was yours?

00:52:26

I don't remember, but it was something really stupid. Like, I just want to eat food. What was

00:52:31

mine i don't know i don't remember apparently looking through walls no no remember mine was

00:52:38

when people can't remember the name of an actor or movie i'll be i'll always be which you do

00:52:42

anyways i wish i did but i don't do it fully i don't do it as much as comprehensively but i want

00:52:49

to change it right now okay so to whoever asked us that question i would like to officially change

00:52:53

in charge of the i want it then maybe if it's low-key then it can only be a one-time thing okay

00:52:58

x-ray vision to see either what's buried or what's hidden in walls. Can it only be superficial things?

00:53:06

How about that? That's the trick of it being low key. It's only like a can of beer that the builder plays.

00:53:12

It's like not a clue to anything. I don't care. Okay, then fuck it. Because when I was growing up, our friends had chicken coops on there.

00:53:20

Like Petaluma, there's like just big open fields with old chicken coops that have been sitting there since the late 1800s.

00:53:27

It's terrifying. I want to look through all of them. We would walk through them and there would just be old equipment hanging and shit everywhere.

00:53:33

It's like people just kind of left them on the property. Because it's like either their family used to be chicken farmers.

00:53:41

Or they bought the property and were like, just leave it there. It's those kind of barns that are slightly sloping to one side that people take pictures of.

00:53:49

That you shouldn't go in because they're going to collapse on your stupid head. Yeah.

00:53:52

But we were like oh well this is how we fill our days So Katie Neuberger my friend and the girl who lived down on the corner her parents raised llamas And they also had an old house on their property a house

00:54:07

And we used to go into it, and one time, and some of the walls... Was there furniture and shit in it?

00:54:12

No, no, it was just like, there was wallpaper on the walls, and no, it was like flat board floors.

00:54:19

but there was a hole in one wall and I looked in it once and saw something and started pulling out bills

00:54:28

to the chicken feed store that were handwritten old bills oh my god and I was like

00:54:34

oh my god look look look and my friend Katie's like oh yeah those are in all the walls

00:54:38

this is some straight Goonies shit I know you know what Goonies fucking ruined it

00:54:42

they made me want to do this Goonies raise the bar where it's like I don't just want chicken feed bill

00:54:49

store bills. Yeah. I want a large ship filled with gold doubloons. Right. Right. Hidden in a cove.

00:54:55

Yeah, but I want to start with the fucking attic with all the paintings in it. Yes. Yes. Listen.

00:55:02

Okay, look. Look and listen. Please invite us to your abandoned house right fucking now.

00:55:07

I left this part in because I knew that this would happen because it's like my dream.

00:55:11

It's so good. It's our dream. I know it's yours too. If you've ever found something in a wall or

00:55:17

floor. Email us immediately. Please. Please. And no lying. No lying. My favorite murderer, Gmail.

00:55:24

I did have a friend, a couple of friends who did a, who were remodeling their house on their own here in L.A.

00:55:32

And found like, just like cool trinkets and stuff. Yeah. It was cool. It'd be amazing.

00:55:38

Yeah. Okay. Okay. Back to the story. Anyways, here's more horrible things. So he had tried to kidnap her.

00:55:47

Blah, blah, blah. she died incinerated her body and that's for Sandra okay then David Muirhofer is like but wait

00:55:54

there's more uh he confesses to the unsolved killing of two local boys March 1967 13 year old

00:56:03

Bernard Pullman is playing with a friend in a creek in Manhattan Montana so at the time David

00:56:12

mirhofer is a high school senior and bernard this kid's older brother was a classmate that david had

00:56:18

fought with david drives by sees the little brother fucking pulls over takes his fucking 22

00:56:24

out of his car hides behind some bushes and fucking shoots bernard through the fucking heart

00:56:29

he's playing yeah um then in may 1968 and this is five years before susie had been kidnapped and

00:56:38

murdered or had been kidnapped and murdered. This is like 10 miles from where that had happened.

00:56:46

A Boy Scout named Michael Rainey, he's 12 years old. He was sleeping in his tent at this Boy Scout retreat.

00:56:55

And his tent mate, who was in the fucking tent with him, wakes up to find him dead.

00:57:03

He had been struck in the head and stabbed to death while he had been sleeping. Yeah.

00:57:08

It's fucking crazy. David said he had randomly killed the boys because he was pissed that he had, he had

00:57:13

randomly killed that kid because he had been pissed that he had been fired from being involved

00:57:17

in the Boy Scouts. Wow. I know. Wow. Which is like so problematic in your fucking thinking.

00:57:24

Okay. I mean, obviously. Yeah. He's a murderer. All right. As for lovely little Susie Yeager, David said he had taken her to an abandoned ranch and

00:57:34

choked her to death after he had kept her, I think, for a little while in a closet, like a week.

00:57:41

I know. Then he dismembered her and burned her pieces, burned her up. But of course,

00:57:48

we don't know what happened for sure because that's... This is just all him. Yeah.

00:57:51

Yeah. All right. So David Meirhofer, who Teton and Mulaney believed had schizopathy,

00:58:00

right which is a mix of psycho of psychopathy and simple schizophrenia that's what they think he had

00:58:06

this was the case this case was the first case solved by offender profiling this is the first

00:58:13

fucking case where these two dudes not the guys from mindhunter but very similar yeah uh and there

00:58:20

actually is a book called mindhunter and that's what the that's what it's based on yeah whatever

00:58:25

okay so this is the first case solved by that they believe that his motive had been the thrill

00:58:30

of killing for sport. So he's just a fucking asshole. Yeah. So they couldn't interview him further

00:58:39

because that night when he fucking confessed to everything at like early morning hours,

00:58:45

they walk him back to his cell and he fucking hangs himself with a fucking towel

00:58:49

that was in the cell with him. Yeah. Of course he does. Yeah. But wait, I'm not ending on that

00:58:55

because I'm not a fucking asshole. um but but but to do to do so so that was september 29th he said he's 25 years old

00:59:03

david mirrorhofer hangs himself fuck you okay what fuck you i'm not as good as marietta no i

00:59:13

i we may we all strive to be that way and in the meantime fuck you dude all right so back to

00:59:21

Marietta. In the early 1990s, Marietta Jaeger co-found a group called Journey of Hope,

00:59:29

dots from violence to healing. Dots. That's a colon. It's a colon. It's absolutely a colon.

00:59:36

I also think the word earlier is pronounced psychopathy. I knew I was getting it wrong.

00:59:42

When I read it, I read psychopathy too. You're totally right. Psychopathy. But it's like,

00:59:47

That's the people who study it are the ones who say it that way. I wasn't going to correct you.

00:59:52

And you don't hear it that much anymore. It seems like an old term right Yes No I glad you corrected me because I was like psychopathy Yeah No Thank you Yeah OK so Marietta now in her late 70s works with family members of murder victims and lectures at

01:00:09

universities, schools, churches, fucking around the entire country and also like went to The Hague

01:00:14

and shit to fucking argue for certain things. I don't mean, what is The Hague? I think it's like

01:00:20

the peace center. They're like, let's, it's like the... One of my favorite people...

01:00:26

This might need to be edited out. We sound real stupid. No, no, no. I love to reference The Hague.

01:00:31

I think it's a really funny comedy reference. And one of my favorite people on Twitter, DVS,

01:00:37

who is a rapper in New York, he made a tweet today about being at The Hague and it made me love him so much.

01:00:44

It was so funny and random and bizarre. But as I laughed at it, I was like, I just don't know what this actually means.

01:00:51

How on earth is The Hague mentioned twice in one day for you? Right? That's crazy.

01:00:55

That's why I mentioned this anecdote. I think it's like the peace center. It's something political for sure.

01:01:05

It's like where you can't be a fucking asshole. It's like The Hague is where everyone looks for peace and justice.

01:01:13

Jesus Christ. That's not real. Stephen's laughing at us and looking at his phone.

01:01:18

Read it, Stephen. It's the Peace Center. I don't know. I can't find an actual definition of it.

01:01:26

It doesn't exist. It's a political building where they, isn't that like where they.

01:01:32

Oh, yeah. It's the International City of, oh, it's a city. It's called the International City of Peace and Justice.

01:01:37

Oh, my God. You were one for one right. Everyone suck my neck right now, Elvis. Am I right?

01:01:44

Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. I doubted you. It just sounded like total bullshit. The thing is, it was total bullshit.

01:01:53

I just must have learned about it somewhere and my brain is a better fucking flytrap than

01:01:57

I thought it was. That was like you Wikipedia memorized that and you didn't even know it.

01:02:01

Uh-huh. Nice one. Thank you. The hag. Shit. I'm going to call my production company The Hag.

01:02:10

So good. Do you think that's copywritten? Or do you think it's like... A hundred percent.

01:02:14

Also, you're opening a production company? Can I get it on? Oh, I didn't tell you.

01:02:22

It's more for sports. That's my new thing. Love it. Love it. Okay. Boop, boop, bop.

01:02:29

Okay. So she's in her late 70s. She fucking is like telling everyone what. She works for the survivors so they don't end up, quote, giving the offenders another

01:02:38

victim themselves. Yes. Because that whole thing of like this hate is going to consume you.

01:02:42

Yes. So she's like, here's how to forgive. It's not, you know, I'm making this part up, but it's not for them.

01:02:48

You're not forgiving them for them. You forgive them for yourself because you can't have that.

01:02:52

100%. Yeah. That's, it's so true. And like, and I think it's also every, it's everybody's kind of overarching goal.

01:03:00

Cause we all have things we're mad about. We all have bitterness and we all think.

01:03:04

It doesn't affect that other person at all. Nope. Unless you bitch slap them once a day.

01:03:09

Like it doesn't even affect them. But even then it feels terrible. Right. And you're angry.

01:03:13

I've had a couple dreams where there was one person I was very mad at for a long time.

01:03:17

And I had to have dreams about slapping her face. And when I woke up, I was so relieved I didn't actually do it because it feels terrible.

01:03:26

Like making yourself feel terrible in an effort in the name of vengeance. Yeah, it's not.

01:03:33

But that's such that's high level recovery. Yeah. Fucking Buddhist shit. Yeah. Don't be mad at yourself if you're not there yet.

01:03:40

No way. This is a serious fucking. I don't know. I mean, like, that's the hardest.

01:03:45

I feel like it's, I mean, that's, yeah, that's long-term goals. Long-term goals.

01:03:50

And, like, we're talking about someone who fucking made out with our boyfriend, not someone who fucking murdered our seven-year-old daughter.

01:03:58

A child. Yeah. So, listen. So it's even more. Baby steps. It's even more. Just self-care.

01:04:05

Look, we're all trying to walk to the Hague, right? But there's miles to go. We got miles to go.

01:04:11

You know the Hague is your fucking end game. Hague's the end game. Don't be mad at yourself that you're not at the Hague.

01:04:18

No. We're still here in America. We don't even know where the fucking country the Hague is in.

01:04:23

Or what it does. Where is it? Denmark or some shit like that? I bet it is. Somewhere Sweden.

01:04:28

Somewhere the Hague is in a Hague place. The Hague is in a vague place. Denmark.

01:04:34

Karen. No. No, Netherlands. Sorry. We're going. Okay, now I have to ask another embarrassing question.

01:04:43

Isn't Denmark in the Netherlands? Yes. Aren't we going there? No, Amsterdam's the Netherlands.

01:04:47

Aren't we going there this fucking May? Yeah, we're going there in May. Yeah, it's the Netherlands.

01:04:55

The Netherlands is where Amsterdam is, right? Yeah. Okay, so I'm not... But Denmark's its own beautiful independent country.

01:05:01

Oh my God. Shit. Now they're so pissed. Cut the first half of this podcast out. And the second half.

01:05:07

A fucking disaster. The first and second. Okay. Let me finish. Yes. Sorry. No, no, no.

01:05:12

You're fine. Because we need to get through this. Yeah. Because I'm going to. Because I'm trying to end this on a positive note.

01:05:17

We just keep talking. You know what it is? It couldn't be a more positive note. And we're like ruining it.

01:05:24

We're just giddy for some positive news. Yes, exactly. Okay. Marietta is also an advocate against the death penalty.

01:05:31

She says, quote, I would not honor the goodness and sweetness and beauty of my little

01:05:37

girl's life by killing someone in their name. And then she says she's worth she's worthy of a more honorable memorial than a cold-blooded

01:05:48

state sanctioned killing of a defenseless person, however deserving of the death of

01:05:53

death that person may be. Which like agree or disagree that a beautiful fucking statement And you can argue with someone who talking about the killer of their daughter You like no you wrong and here why No no no there no arguing that because that a person that first person experience

01:06:09

Yeah. So anybody else, I mean, like, look, everybody obviously grieves and processes in their own way.

01:06:14

But that concept, it's a reframing of looking at it, which is, you really are doing it self-righteously in the name of the person who was killed.

01:06:24

Exactly. But then it's like she's making you rethink that, which is brilliant and really amazing.

01:06:30

Are you ready for fucking to go to practice what you preach town? Yeah. Are you ready to fucking visit it and go there and stay there for a holiday?

01:06:40

You mean the peace place? Yeah. You ready to go to the Hague? The place for peace?

01:06:43

The practice what you Hague? So after David's suicide, Marietta reaches out to David Muirhofer, the fucking killer of his daughter, her daughter, reaches out to David Muirhofer's mother.

01:07:02

Yes, because she's a victim too. And in the years following his suicide, the moms together accompanied each other's to each other's children's graves.

01:07:15

No. And she said, quote, together, we were able to grieve as mothers who had lost their children.

01:07:22

I hoped that it would help her to know that I had forgiven him. I know. Holy fucking shit.

01:07:31

I know. what say her name again marietta marietta jaeger wow yeah i think she wrote a book too but the group

01:07:40

is called journey of hope and it's co-founded yeah it's fucked up it's crazy i can't like

01:07:47

because you've seen that you i mean we've all seen that on true crime shows where the family of

01:07:54

the perpetrator is horrified and like, and they are in this strange bubble. And they have this shame and humiliation.

01:08:04

Guilt by association. Yeah. And it's like, what could I have done to prevent this?

01:08:08

And they often are the subject of so much hatred. Right. But probably maybe, or maybe we're victimized by the perpetrator themselves.

01:08:19

Yes. God damn. And that's high level, high level human work right there. Marietta Yeager.

01:08:27

Fuck. Yep. And that's that. Wow, Georgia, that was amazing. Thank you. That's what happens when you have insomnia and you listen to terrible books.

01:08:39

And they're like, oh, that's like, of course you're not sleeping. You're listening to this shit.

01:08:42

It's so funny, though, because when I was listening to those, is it those who fight monsters?

01:08:46

Yeah. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. I think it is. Something like that. Which, by the way, is a great book to fall asleep to.

01:08:52

I fucking bring it down to, instead of at full speed, I bring it down to 75% speed.

01:08:56

Oh. Good fucking night, usually. I like that narrator. Yeah. He's good. He sounds like an FBI agent.

01:09:04

He sounds official and standard, but then there's also an interestingness to his voice.

01:09:11

But when I was reading that, because that book, it seems like that book has 95 chapters.

01:09:15

Like, when I was reading it, it was just in my car every time I would drive around.

01:09:18

Yeah. And it felt like it went on forever. But every time I would be like, write this down.

01:09:22

This could be a murder because there are so many ones that were obscure or I either hadn't heard of or knew a little bit about.

01:09:29

Yeah. Where I was like, write this down. And I just know. Well, this is the reason I found this one is because I was on the last chapter and it's about Ed Kemper.

01:09:37

And it's just this like even killed guy narrator talking about he would cut the heads off of it.

01:09:43

And I was like, what are you listening to, Georgia? Yeah. So then instead of like putting something else on about like fucking space, I put on chapter set.

01:09:51

I was like, fuck this chapter. I'll go to a different chapter of the murder book where this is the subject again.

01:09:59

Yeah. It's just going to be a different body part. It just won't be anything that's not Ed Kemper.

01:10:04

That's all I need. Also, have people already started up fan groups for the actor?

01:10:10

Because I realized I said our boy Ed Kemper. But what I mean is the actor who played Ed Kemper in Mindhunter is on.

01:10:16

We know we're following him on Instagram now. Oh, really? Yeah, because someone, we joked about how he would be, he should be on, what's that, Pitch Perfect?

01:10:28

Pitch Perfect. And so someone made a fucking amazing graphic with just him photoshopped in there very badly on purpose.

01:10:38

And it was super hilarious. Oh, yeah, that's right. And so someone tagged the dude who plays him and was like, hey, look, you're on this podcast.

01:10:46

And so we're following him now. I don't know if I can find his name right now. I probably can't.

01:10:51

We follow Beyonce, too. Oh, nice. He's got to be in there somewhere, but it's pretty great.

01:10:56

That's so rad. Yeah, it's pretty. Because he looks like your big friend from high school that always has shitty weed to hang out with you with.

01:11:06

He just looks cool and fun. He looks like men in his life have always tried to pressure him into playing football,

01:11:14

but then he would talk to them about quantum physics and leave him alone. And he really likes hanging out with girls, but not sexually assaulting them.

01:11:22

Yes, exactly. Unlike Ed Kemper. And then he will post a photo on Instagram of like, here's me as Ed Kemper.

01:11:28

You got to watch this. And I'm like, oh my God, that's not you. Oh, Stephen? Cameron Britton.

01:11:35

Yay! Is he Canadian? he looks he's got a canadian vibe to me yeah maybe maybe cameron let us know

01:11:44

uh well that was great before nexium nancy soulsman wanted to help people being able to

01:11:55

help somebody it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life she trained in something

01:12:00

called neuro-linguistic programming. People loved our training. Then everything changed.

01:12:05

Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?

01:12:11

A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.

01:12:18

Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:12:26

I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro. I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening

01:12:34

in your community and around the world. Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all

01:12:39

cursing and asking what the bleep is going on. Every week I'm breaking down the biggest issues

01:12:45

happening in our communities and around the world. I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown,

01:12:50

who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. The Justice Department threw, we counted,

01:12:56

four presidential administrations failed these victims. Listen to Bleep with Anna Navarro on the

01:13:03

iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, host of the Wicked Words podcast. Each week, I sit down with the

01:13:16

true crime writers behind some of the most compelling true crime stories and discuss

01:13:20

their years spent investigating and why it still matters. He sees his father coming out of the woods with his hands over his face, and he knows something happened.

01:13:31

His father just grabs him and says, she's gone. She's gone. These are the cases that leave survivors, families, and the journalists who cover them changed forever.

01:13:43

Working in national television, it'll push you to your limits, and you'll end up doing things you never thought you'd do.

01:13:49

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Join me and step inside the investigation. New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.

01:14:01

Listen to Wicked Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:14:10

So this, as I've already said several times, I drove down the five today. Honey, I bet this is going to be amazing.

01:14:18

No, no, no. This is like the beginning. I'm sorry I called you honey. Oh, okay, I get it.

01:14:22

I thought you were telling about how bad it was going to be. Well, it is, but I've already made that clear.

01:14:27

Okay. But I wanted to do a story, something about the five. Love it. Right? Now, I've already done the I-5 killer.

01:14:36

Yeah. The guy that used to be on the football team. That is, I mean. And then there was also an I-5 strangler.

01:14:44

But he was one of those ones that I didn't, it just was depressing. Yeah. And it was a lot of women's bodies lost in creek beds for years and years, which I fucking hate.

01:14:59

We say it was just depressing. We mean it also didn't have interesting facts. We don't mean like, they're all fucking depressing.

01:15:07

They're all depressing. This one was once again a man who for 20 to 30 years just got away with killing whoever the fuck woman he wanted to come by.

01:15:16

There's no Marietta at the end of that fucking story. That's exactly what it is.

01:15:20

That's exactly what it is. Except for, that's not true, in the I-5 Strangler, there's a detective who would go and hike up in the mountains.

01:15:28

Because the one woman that this guy said he killed, but they couldn't find her body, he would just go hike to see if he could find something.

01:15:35

And he finally fucking found a quarter-sized bone in a creek that had been a dry creek bed when he put her body there, but was now a flowing creek.

01:15:48

What the fuck? He found it and they DNA tested it and it was her. What in the fucking fuck?

01:15:54

I bet you I had all that on a document somewhere. Somewhere I could have given you the names.

01:16:01

But it was pretty amazing. And that was one of those things where there are detectives out there who do that job because they want.

01:16:08

They not only want to help people, but they want to solve people's sadness for families.

01:16:17

They want people, they want them to know. They want to end the sadness as much as they can.

01:16:22

There's no closure. We know that. Yeah. But not knowing is worse. Exactly. Yeah.

01:16:26

And he would hike, he would just hike around the area. I mean, it's amazing. Anyway, but apparently that didn't cut it for me.

01:16:34

Okay. Apparently my standards are even higher than that amazing story. No, here's what it is.

01:16:40

I hadn't heard this, but this is a, not only is it not an old story, this is almost a borderline breaking story.

01:16:48

Wait, what? So that when I heard it, I was like, hold on. I'd never heard anything about this.

01:16:53

So on Wednesday, November 15th. Wait, like two weeks ago? A cab driver in Stockton, California.

01:17:07

He picks up a fare and he notices that the man that's in his car fits the description of the APB that the San Joaquin County Sheriff's Department had just

01:17:17

put out for a six foot tall man with a heavy built black hair and black eyes. Oh, no.

01:17:24

It was very dangerous. And in the APB said, do not approach him under any circumstances.

01:17:31

Or pick him up in your cab. Right. So this cab driver calls 911 and says, I think I just had this guy in my cab.

01:17:38

And at 1030 a.m., police arrest 59-year-old Randall Sato at a gas station on Highway 99.

01:17:46

And it turns out Randall was an escapee of a Hawaiian mental hospital where he had lived he has lived for the past 40 years Oh my God He is described by the doctors and the people that committed him there as violent a violent manipulative psychopath and a murderer So here what he

01:18:09

did to get into that mental hospital. In 1977, a woman named Sandra Yamashiro was walking to her

01:18:16

car out of a mall called the uh ala moana center um her next to her car is a car parked and a man

01:18:25

uh sitting in that car he shoots her in the face with a pellet gun in her car and um he goes over

01:18:36

to asks if she's okay she's been shot in the face oh my god and then he repeatedly stabs her

01:18:44

he goes over to see if she's okay, and then... Well, says the phrase, like, are you okay?

01:18:51

But he just went over there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then basically stabbed her multiple times,

01:18:57

left her in her car, and then got back into his car where his girlfriend was sitting in the car and drove away.

01:19:05

Was she... Okay, go on. I don't know anything about the girlfriend, because this is so fresh that basically all the,

01:19:15

it's one of those things where there's the AP story that came out. There was a story that was in Time and AP,

01:19:21

and every other article in every other newspaper was basically the same article.

01:19:25

Yeah. Different, slightly different word changing. Yeah. What we call the Karen Kilgareff treatment.

01:19:32

So, so he's tried for this murder and he is acquitted by reason of insanity. Uh-huh.

01:19:39

Yeah. So his girlfriend had to know because you don't stab a person that many times and then get into a car and you don't bled all over you.

01:19:46

She's sitting in the car next to the car where the murder is taking place. And she's hanging out and having a great time.

01:19:50

I don't. She's with murder. Unless she has 70s fucking headphones on and an eye mask.

01:19:57

Like, there's no way. She doesn't know exactly what the fuck's going on. Oh, good point.

01:20:01

She's driving. Creepy. Well, either way, he gets tried. He's not convicted. Instead, he's acquitted by reason of insanity, but then he is committed to the Hawaii State Psychiatric Hospital.

01:20:16

Okay, good. Where he's lived for the past 40 years. Fuck. Yeah. So, here's what happened.

01:20:24

On Sunday, November 12th at 9 a.m., Randall walks off the ground. No, he shouldn't be able to do that.

01:20:33

Right? He shouldn't. And he walks to a place called Kanaoke Park, which is how I'm thinking that they pronounce it, but could be very differently pronounced.

01:20:42

That sounds Hawaiian as fuck to me. I think it's right. Because I went Oke, which is Kana Oke.

01:20:48

Can we have a free trip to Hawaii, please? We love you, guys. So he gets to this park.

01:20:54

He calls the cab. The dispatcher, there was a whole article about this dispatcher.

01:20:58

it's a female cab driver comes and picks him up there's a video camera inside the cab

01:21:09

and it shows him and he now has a backpack that he couldn't have had at the psychiatric hospital

01:21:17

and in the video he's looking through the backpack like he's never seen it before

01:21:22

so he's rifling through it to see what's in it no no no he pays the cab driver in cash

01:21:29

and he gets dropped off at the airport where he has already chartered a plane cost him

01:21:37

$1,500 if you charter a plane that's essentially a private plane and you don't have to

01:21:43

check your what the fuck if you pay a guy $1,500 and you're like can you fly me to Maui

01:21:51

they're like okay they don't make you do anything extra It's not enough money to not have that shit checked.

01:21:58

Right. But it is Hawaii where it's all islands, and that's kind of a major mode of transportation.

01:22:05

Right, right, right, right. As I learned from the film, hard ticket to Hawaii. Please watch it if you've never seen it.

01:22:11

I haven't. Okay, so he gets to Maui, then he, with the fake ID that was in there, postulating was in the backpack.

01:22:23

so basically somebody put that backpack together for him who his i bet it was his cousin

01:22:28

i'm just gonna say cousin fucking cousins man they're always fuck they're always fucking

01:22:34

helping you too much they're always aiding and they're always a betting always aiding

01:22:38

um so he gets onto a hawaiian air flight uh-huh to san jose no no no no imagine the difference

01:22:48

between you live in hawaii and you're like i gotta get to san jose imagine who sat next to him

01:22:53

Right? On the plane. I want to know what he drank. I want to know what sandwich he ordered.

01:23:01

And they were out of that sandwich, so he had to get a fucking wrap. I'll tell you what.

01:23:04

He has a backpack full of cash, seemingly. Uh-huh. But they don't take cash on planes anymore.

01:23:10

Good point. I'm sorry. He got zero drinks on that plane. Yeah. He got zero sandwiches on that plane.

01:23:16

Right. Unless it was a JetBlue where you go up to that awesome little refrigerator.

01:23:20

I have never, George and I took a flight and there's a JetBlue setup now where instead of them bringing around a weird wicker basket of like, do you want a pretzel or not?

01:23:30

And like pick it now. Pick it. Don't pick more than one. Don't put this on me. I always say no out of like pride.

01:23:37

I always pick wrong and I get bummed about it. I'm always like, I'm above pretzels and cookies.

01:23:41

I actually hate pretzels, but I would have loved those fucking yam chips or whatever the fuck.

01:23:46

I don't want a basket shoved at me. like it's the offering plate in church. I want to sit with my decision and be like,

01:23:53

what do I want? I going to grab each and then eat a little of each Like a fucking I want to dig through it like a large raccoon I want to see what I want All of them I want to touch each bag even though they the same brand and the same item

01:24:06

Yeah. Well, he didn't get that opportunity. He didn't get shit unless it was a Jeblin.

01:24:10

Right. No, it wasn't. It was Hawaiian air. Okay. We knew that. We knew that. We knew that going in.

01:24:16

I just wanted to talk about a midplane refrigerator and snack cupboard. Yeah. that was purely based on do you have the guts to walk up here and grab food?

01:24:28

And then it was just all the bravest people on the plane. That makes me sad. Why?

01:24:33

Because you have to be brave to go up and get a snack. Well, I mean, that's just societal pressure where it's like you walk up there,

01:24:39

but everyone's going to watch you. Like, for me. Fuck you. I'm going to point at everyone next time.

01:24:44

Fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. I'm going to go through the plane. Here's what I did.

01:24:48

I waited and waited and waited. Then I waited until I had to go to the bathroom.

01:24:51

because the bathroom was right across from this area. Then as I came out of the bathroom,

01:24:55

I pretended I'd never seen the cupboard before. And then I went, well, I guess I will have a beverage.

01:25:00

Well, I'm up. I mean, this makes me think you have shame issues around eating and drinking.

01:25:04

Do you think? Because I fucking... This makes you think and not me telling you over and over

01:25:10

that I have these severe issues. Oh, I don't listen when you say those things. I'm like, yeah, I care.

01:25:16

We all have issues. Great. What do you want to order? and well i guess this is probably why when we do order i'm like let's get to this and this and this

01:25:24

because then you'll just say yes instead of yes saying i don't want that no i'm ordering it i also

01:25:30

my my favorite new thing is yes let's get four things okay sorry this is just a sidebar this is

01:25:37

this poor guy this has become about us i know poor guy this asshole fuck this okay him okay what

01:25:43

we went there was a new restaurant that opened in penlum while i was home for thanksgiving and

01:25:48

Adrian and I made plans for lunch. Then my dad was like, hey, want to go to lunch?

01:25:53

And I was like, Adrian, can we collapse these plans together? I'm under a lot of pressure.

01:25:57

And she's like, totally, let's party with Jim. Is he the coolest? I want to hang out with him so bad.

01:26:01

My dad? Yeah. He's the greatest man. Is he coming to our LA show? I think we could get him to.

01:26:06

Let's put him up at a really nice hotel. Let's spoil Jim. I want Vince and him to talk about wrestling.

01:26:13

Him and Vince should go on their own separate vacation. Okay. They would be best friends immediately.

01:26:19

Do you know that my dad got mad? We went to this place and they didn't have Budweiser and he wanted to leave.

01:26:25

Oh, Vince is like that too. Yeah. It was that thing where he goes, I go, dad, they have all Lagunitas on top because Lagunitas

01:26:31

is in Petaluma. That's so fucking, oh, it is. That's bullshit. I don't want that.

01:26:36

Who doesn't have fucking Budweiser? Seriously. No, Vince gets pissed if they don't have like certain things.

01:26:40

Lunch started with a slight anger. Oh, it's for, oh, your dad and I are going to get along.

01:26:46

like drinking sign me the fuck up honey when you walk into you guys have to come okay when you walk

01:26:53

in to jim's house the first thing he says to you hey you want a cold one can he make me i know that

01:26:59

he used to drink manhattans oh your mom yeah can he make me a manhattan he would love to make you

01:27:04

it would be his favorite thing and he would also laugh like you're gonna have a manhattan

01:27:10

You would think it was the most refreshing thing in the world. Yeah. They party.

01:27:17

He parties. They. Well, kind of all my family. I was thinking of, because at his birthday party, we all went out to dinner.

01:27:24

And Carol Painter, who was sitting next to me, his friend, his friend Woody, who's also a fireman.

01:27:32

Manhattans are like the first thing they order at a restaurant. Yeah. I love it.

01:27:35

They're good time people. So from Maui, he goes to San Jose. He arrives in California, 530 Hawaiian time.

01:27:43

Two hours later, the hospital alerts the authorities that he's missing, which is eight hours after he walked off the hospital ground.

01:27:51

He's fucking in a different fucking part of the planet. He is. And they're like, oh, hey, I'm missing out.

01:27:56

Look, we just did a quick bed check. We did an evening bed check and Randall wasn't around.

01:28:01

We did our once a day bed check. This is a hospital with 300 patients that are at capacity.

01:28:07

and the sad part is or whatever part they're now under all and all under investigation like over 60

01:28:13

employees are on unpaid leave until they figure out how this happened i just hope they figure it

01:28:19

out quickly so that they're not just punishing a bunch of random people 59 of those people deserve

01:28:23

their job back and hey you work in a psychiatric hospital you better get paid every minute of the

01:28:30

time you're there. That's a hard job. Basically, then the APB goes out at 830. So this is like,

01:28:38

you know, a lot of time has passed since Randall has just super chill style walked off the

01:28:43

psychiatric grounds. That's a problem. So somebody called in a tip line and let the authorities know

01:28:50

in Hawaii that Randall had a brother that lived in Stockton, California. And that's how they knew

01:28:54

to alert the San Joaquin Sheriff's Department. Hey, you put out the same APB. Make sure.

01:29:00

And that's how that news all got distributed correctly. Can you... Quick sidebar.

01:29:04

Yep. Quick fill time. Can you imagine being that brother? Ugh. Being in Stockton with your family and friends.

01:29:11

You haven't seen your fucking brother in 40 years. Your crazy brother that murdered someone.

01:29:16

Knock on the goddamn door. Yeah. Look through the peephole. Uh-oh. Yeah. Uh-oh. Okay, go on.

01:29:23

Hawaii Five, uh-oh. sorry that was no that was the best thing i've ever heard like fucking life that was gorgeous

01:29:30

okay so altogether they randall had been on the run for four days okay that whole span of time

01:29:39

um but he had been trying to leave that psychiatric hospital for a while so in 1993

01:29:45

uh he put in a request for a conditional release saying that he uh and and the court said no

01:29:53

fucking way you are a sexual sadist and a necrophile oh so you have to stay in the mental hospital Deputy Prosecutor Jeff Albert said Randall Sato is very disturbed mentally ill individual

01:30:07

who is very dangerous, with respect to whom all the predicators indicate that if he were to be released, he would kill again.

01:30:15

Oh, dear. Then in 2000, he gets his defense attorneys to once again argue for his release.

01:30:24

And again, that same prosecutor, Jeff Albert, says he fills the criteria of a classic serial killer.

01:30:31

Basically, he's not getting out. But a lot of people that worked there and the people that the doctors that, you know, analyzed him or whatever the word is, said he was also very personable and had very good social skills because he's a psychopath.

01:30:48

He's a master manipulator. Don't use that as a yeah, but it's like, yeah, and. Right. I think for them it is a yeah and, but I was using it as a segue.

01:30:57

Okay. So I was trying to turn it that basically since he's been in this mental hospital,

01:31:04

he has had six significant relationships. Three have been with staff members of this hospital.

01:31:11

What? Yeah. And to the point where then a hospital administrator found out that Randall had been being escorted home for weekend conjugal visits

01:31:21

for two full years with nobody on that like high level. With like a nurse or whatever?

01:31:26

Yeah, like he had two wives outside of the hospital that he would, he basically tricked people

01:31:34

into letting him go home and like fuck his wife. Two different wives. Oh no. They ended up blocking the visits for all patients.

01:31:46

Two years later. Exactly. Nobody, now he's like, you know what? Now nobody can leave the facility.

01:31:53

Now nobody gets to have conjugal visits here or off. But if you think about it, if you've been committed to a mental hospital because you fucking stabbed and shot a woman.

01:32:04

For him, yeah. But everyone else is like, all I did was go crazy one night and break stuff.

01:32:09

Oh, that's true. Well, I mean, yeah, that's case by case. But in general, they're basically saying when you are dealing with people like this, this can't even be an option on the table.

01:32:18

No. Because you're going to end up jail with treatment. Exactly. But he has been there for a long time.

01:32:25

So he's like, you know, the mind is going. The mind of a psychopath is going always.

01:32:30

So and actually those dalliances were impetus for a rule change in 2003. The state attorney general's office decided mental patients committed to Hawaii State Hospital have no legal right to conjugal visits.

01:32:44

So that actually went to the state level because of him. Yeah. Because it was that bad.

01:32:49

And he got so horny, he broke out. He's like, someone get me a backpack. I got to get to San Jose.

01:32:55

I got to fuck. So in 2015, Honolulu prosecutor Wayne Tashima argued against him receiving passes to leaving the hospital grounds without an escort.

01:33:09

So again, he was asking, he's like, guys, real quick. It's just me. I know you've said no before.

01:33:15

It's just me, the murderer. Can I just take a walk around the ground? And in these articles, they're also interviewing the neighbors that live near this hospital where they're like, yeah, we didn't know they were allowed to leave.

01:33:28

We didn't know any of this was happening. It's super crazy. Oh, my God. So anyway, the judge.

01:33:37

So you know how he was acquitted on account of mental insanity? The circuit court judge who deemed him mentally unfit to stand trial and committed him to the hospital is a controversial figure.

01:33:56

He said that because after he shot her and then went to check on her and asked if she was OK, that to him meant he was insane.

01:34:07

And so he was not he could not stand trial. Oh, that was all it was based on. The whole thing was based on simply that.

01:34:16

And this is what he said. If you look at the evidence that was presented, she did not move.

01:34:21

She was bleeding profusely. Her face was down. She did not move or answer him at that point.

01:34:26

And for him to think that she would identify him and therefore he had to kill her, that becomes irrational also in my mind.

01:34:31

And the same year that he had that ruling, he overturned a jury verdict that found high profile Honolulu crime boss Charlie Stevens guilty of a double murder.

01:34:46

Stevens admitted to the murder. And the jury was like, yep, you did it. The jury was like, he's guilty.

01:34:52

This guy comes in and is like overturned. Don't ever do that. He's going to walk away.

01:34:57

Judges. He said there wasn't enough evidence. There wasn't enough evidence and the guilty party confessed.

01:35:05

Yeah. So anyway, they basically, after that happened, protests happened at the state capitol and everyone was calling for his firing and an investigation because clearly there's something going on.

01:35:19

Are you on the take? All the cases. Yeah. Yeah. But especially with things like that where he's basically kind of, and I mean, obviously this is super technical, but the idea that a judge is like, I've decided you're too crazy to go to jail.

01:35:34

You can go over here, but you don't have to go to jail for this murder. Because I think that seems crazy.

01:35:41

Yeah, because this one thing you did in my mind, and, like, you're not a fucking crazy person, so you're judging this based on your own fucking, you know.

01:35:52

Just, like, your taste. Yeah. Of how it's like, that seems crazy to me. That's crazy.

01:35:57

That's crazy. Don't go to jail. Um. Okay. Oh, also, on October 6, 1981, that same judge was arrested for drunk driving,

01:36:09

and he was found later at his family's Mokalea Beach House with multiple injuries,

01:36:17

including a broken collarbone. He said that he passed out as he was beaten, but the investigators think that he tried to hang himself.

01:36:26

Oh, my God. so that's my super sloppy but kind of amazing still breaking story that's amazing where every

01:36:35

article i read had a little more information so he's in custody now yes and they they've

01:36:41

extradited him back to hawaii he didn't kill anyone while he was out there nope he did he go

01:36:47

to his brother's house did they have thanksgiving dinner he didn't make it okay he didn't get any

01:36:52

of that okay he basically took um two plane rides well three on the way back and a couple cab rides

01:36:59

and we don't know who gave him the backpack yet that's the thing is it his girlfriend in the

01:37:04

hospital is it the girlfriend that he was visiting on his day pass it's her outside of the hospital

01:37:09

sorry honey it's you but there's could be somebody on the inside because that's who

01:37:13

but how do you leave a thing up if you're on the inside oh you mean like one of the

01:37:16

she's like i'll leave it by this awesome coconut tree as you walk out of the front oh so it could

01:37:22

have been on the grounds because also how does he just walk off the grounds like just just walk off

01:37:28

you'd hope it'd be more secure than that and go to the park if he's if he is a criminal where the

01:37:34

deputy district attorney is like this man is has all the makings of a serial killer like think of

01:37:41

you're like i've watched this dude for 40 fucking years he's never tried to escape it's like

01:37:45

you don't need to worry if he wants to go look at the fucking grass on the whatever the fuck and

01:37:51

he's a psychopath so he's going to be able to tell you exactly what you want to hear to make

01:37:55

you trust him yeah and get and maybe get you a get him a backpack filled with cash and fake ids

01:38:01

right because he had to have a fake id to get onto that hawaiian air flight so somebody was doing

01:38:07

somebody was breaking the law for him actually yeah oh that motherfucker's going to jail but then

01:38:13

The thing that kind of drives me crazy, I really wanted to know more about that murder because also it's so insane and extreme.

01:38:21

It seems like other there's because there's the thing about that is, is there's nothing sexually sadist about that murder from what you've told me.

01:38:30

No. Or necrophilia. Right. So there's there's more shit going on. It like they have taken this story and it kept saying police records hospital records and then interview things So it like this story is kind of like piecing itself together as it goes There way more going on There way more And I wonder like when I was Googling

01:38:54

because I really was just trying to look up Sandra Yamashiro's murder in 1977, and you can only find it within these articles about him.

01:39:07

Or they're like the original, the original news report that someone made. Yes. I was trying to do that.

01:39:16

Quotes around the name, all those search things that you try to do. And nothing came up about her specifically, which drives me crazy.

01:39:24

But I guess also because it's so long ago that maybe those like that microfiche has been thrown away.

01:39:30

But anyway, hopefully more stuff will come out about that because it seems like that guy's done way more stuff.

01:39:36

Yeah. Obviously, he's been prosecuted for. That's fucking awesome. I can't wait to hear more.

01:39:42

Yeah. That was great. Thanks, Georgia. Yeah. Karen. I mean, look, look at your mom nail polish.

01:39:51

You know, it's insane. What? Laura can attest to this. We could call her right now.

01:39:56

I bought this nail polish last night and I go, isn't this the best color? And she goes, that's the color mom used to wear.

01:40:03

Oh, my God. I swear to God. I swear to God. It's like a brownish mauve. Yeah, I like it.

01:40:11

It's very 1982. Goodbye. No. And then one thing that makes you happy. You do it first.

01:40:20

I've been talking for so long. I had a couple, but I think very simply my favorite thing is that you have found GIFs.

01:40:30

Oh, GIFs. Yeah, say GIFs. It's too late for GIFs. Yeah, but I don't think anyone knew what I was talking about.

01:40:36

GIFs. I thought you meant GIFs. No. GIFs. GIFs. I love GIFs so much. Yeah. And you didn't do them until like the past two months, I think.

01:40:49

You know why? Why? I didn't understand. I didn't understand that you had to get the app.

01:40:54

Oh, yeah. Giphy. G-I-P-H-Y. Yeah, you just get that. And it's already on your texting.

01:40:59

It's now on it. It's waiting for you. There's no better response than a response in GIF.

01:41:06

Yes. It's just perfect. It's very specific. Anything you fucking need, any fucking thing you like, any fucking face you're trying to make.

01:41:16

Yep. It's so stupid and funny in gift form. And you, the fact that you now like do it to me makes me so happy because it's like, it's really funny.

01:41:26

Because you did it to me forever and it would make me laugh so hard and I wanted to do it back But I would be trying to do it I would be going on to Google and then putting the word GIF in the fucking search bar like the old woman that I am

01:41:41

It was making me insane. Steven, did I ask you about it? Is that how I ended up getting that app?

01:41:46

No, I think you found it on your own. Did I do it on my own? Oh, my God, who's a big girl?

01:41:50

Well, then that's my favorite thing over this week is that I did it on my own. Who's a big girl?

01:41:53

No, you know what my favorite thing is? and this could be I'll go even simpler than your gifts because the one I sent to you tonight oh yeah

01:42:00

is stolen from Steven yeah it's my favorite gift of all time and it applies to any situation

01:42:06

it's Kim Kardashian peeking around a bush yeah and it is so fucking funny and the first time

01:42:12

Steve had sent it to me I of course sent Steven some text that was like no Steven go fuck yourself

01:42:17

or some obnoxiously jokey, mean thing. And then the response was Kim Kardashian peeking around the bush.

01:42:26

What do you put in to look for that Kim Kardashian bush? Oh, God, no. Don't do that.

01:42:31

No, don't do that. I think it's sneaky or sneaky. I want to see that episode where it's from.

01:42:38

Yeah, I don't care. I think I've seen that episode because they made Khloe go on a date

01:42:43

and then they all watched her from behind a bush. Oh, my God. She was on like a weird, uncomfortable blind date and she didn't want to go.

01:42:51

And, and Chloe and Kim, no, sorry. Wait. Kim and Katrina. Kim and Maureen, my favorite one.

01:43:03

Right. Made her do it and then spied on her and laughed at her where it's like, that's one of the first episodes I ever saw where I was like, but you made her do it.

01:43:11

So this isn't like, you're not, it's only funny if she wanted to do it. Right. If it was her idea.

01:43:15

but it was your idea so you can't make fun of her so we hate the kardashians and what they stand for

01:43:21

but we love the gifts they make here's the thing the gifts are their gift whatever the kardashians

01:43:27

thing is you you can't deny it and you can't fight it because one time i went and laid down

01:43:34

on my couch and turned on e accidentally nothing i would do intentionally and there was a kardashian

01:43:41

marathon on and I watched every fucking episode for like hours and hours. It's amen. I watched

01:43:47

every episode of fucking Nick Lachey and Jessica Simpson show. Oh, that thing was brilliant.

01:43:53

So much. But that was brilliantly. I know that some of the people that worked on that,

01:43:58

they were like comics. What about Ashley Simpson's show? That was amazing. I'm not

01:44:02

interested in Ashley Simpson. Well, what about fucking six years ago? Were you? Yes. Yes.

01:44:08

When she was married to Pete Wentz? No, it was way before that. It was like when she was like I this famous person little sister and I going to do it on my own And then she like eyeliner eyeliner eyeliner purple hair Oh my God I fake punk Yeah That was a good show

01:44:27

But that, the original Jessica Simpson is like with some fucking gorgeous television.

01:44:35

So good, bad. Honey. Guys. Look and listen. We've done it again. And fucking look. You know, if you've

01:44:43

ever tuned in to us because you were trying to waste time or just distract yourself i feel like this is the

01:44:52

episode for you congratulations i hope we took you to a different planet listen this was

01:44:57

absolute madness all hail marietta yeager yes and fucking live your life do your shit get try

01:45:05

just just we're all just marietta try to do it marietta style like don't do what we do

01:45:11

Fuck, man. You're fucking monsters. Jesus Christ. No one's trying to do what we do.

01:45:19

And stay sexy. And don't get murdered, please. Bye. Elvis. Oh, Donnie. Hi. Oh, that was cute.

01:45:31

When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?

01:45:37

Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.

01:45:44

It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me.

01:45:51

This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy and start listening now.

01:46:01

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.

01:46:10

Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

01:46:22

I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:46:31

10-10 shots fired in the City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall?

01:46:37

Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.

01:46:47

I screamed, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten.

01:46:53

And a mystery. That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex.

01:46:57

Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgi

97 - The Hague

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