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Is that it? Goodbye. Oh my God, you guys. Fuck, they caught the fucking Golden State Killer.
00:02:12
East area motherfucking rapist. That, this is one of the fucking weirdest experiences of my life.
00:02:20
Let's talk about last night. I'm laying in bed. I'm fucking, I've been up since 5 a.m.
00:02:26
I'm like, great. I already know I'm going to need a Xanax to go to sleep just for the fucking shit of it.
00:02:31
Because I drank a fucking cold brew that day. Then I look at my text and immediately and see what I've fucking been hoping to see every morning I wake up for fucking ever.
00:02:40
You texting me and Steven, they caught the Golden State Killer. Yes. And I fucking pop out of bed, gasping, scaring their shit at events.
00:02:50
He was like mad at me. And I call you immediately. I was driving home from the Hollywood Improv
00:02:58
just did a show there met some nice listeners who had come to the show I was having a wonderful evening
00:03:05
coming down off of that and I have to admit to you although I was not reading and driving
00:03:11
I waited for a red light but as I'm addicted to Twitter I open my Twitter and I'm actually going to read his name
00:03:18
because this is the first person who told me which means the world to me because someone was on it and immediately was just like, did you hear this?
00:03:27
Everyone else who's tweeted us after is loses to this guy. It is his name's Eric and it's at era.
00:03:35
ERA can't see. And he wrote, they got him question mark. Reddit is excited. So he basically came over and let me know.
00:03:45
And so at a red light, I, I opened this thing and it's basically just like they, there is
00:03:50
an arrest and it's a hundred percent. DNA match. You know, I didn't see that part yet. The thing that got me excited, like that I wasn't
00:03:58
just like, oh, this is just another thing is when it said, when you said Reddit's excited.
00:04:03
And I'm like, well, Reddit, if Reddit's excited, that's like almost better than if fucking law
00:04:08
enforcement is excited. Yeah. Because I feel like Reddit is set up to make people stop being excited.
00:04:13
Right. They're the people there down. It's like, no, no, you're being, you're being rash. You're
00:04:17
being immature or you're being hopeful or you're fucking uh pinning it on someone that has nothing
00:04:22
to do with it and that's fucking illegal and crazy and stop it exactly because so yes that's very
00:04:27
important point to make so and what happened you know then i lay down and i start fucking
00:04:33
googling and redditing and twittering for fucking hours and at first it was they had the name of
00:04:39
some dude that it wasn't uh i'm not obviously gonna say his name but he was also in law enforcement
00:04:44
you know it could have been him all this shit and so i did all this fucking research on him then
00:04:49
it wasn't him so and like they put photos up they put it's just of the wrong guy uh of the wrong guy
00:04:56
but at the same time this guy this guy's a piece of shit too so i mean but it's the wrong guy i
00:05:03
think it's like that's the thing that we were talking about before it's just this all i can
00:05:07
think about is the beginning of making a murderer where they are having that exact same kind of
00:05:12
press conference and was it ken kratz or whoever that guy is it's just like we got him this is it
00:05:17
and it's just that thing where as we watch stuff like this then we're just like this is it joseph
00:05:23
d'angelo is that you know police police allege joseph d'angelo is the fucking golden state killer
00:05:28
and then we want that to be true so bad that it's just like and now we're going all the way down
00:05:33
this road and that's all i think about is these days how many fucking documentaries have you seen
00:05:37
or then they pull it all apart. Right. But I know, yes, the 100% DNA match and the fact that I think that.
00:05:47
Yeah, that does make a huge difference. Because also because that's been happening, that happens so much.
00:05:52
And what a huge high profile case this is with so many different jurisdictions I don think these people had to do so much fact checking They did not arrest this fucking guy until they were sure Otherwise it would have looked really bad
00:06:06
It would have made them look incompetent. It would have been a ton of fucking jurisdictions that would look bad,
00:06:11
not just, you know, the fucking Manitoba County or whatever the fuck. Manitoba County?
00:06:16
Oh, my God. Okay, if you could get one question answered right now. Well, let me, can I just also say this?
00:06:25
Never in my life have experienced this from the moment you and I started talking last night.
00:06:30
I had like the Georgia. So I text that then fucking thank God Georgia calls me because I was like, if I have to be by myself with this information, I'm going to lose my mind.
00:06:38
And Vince gave zero shits. He fucking fell asleep immediately. Well, that'd be like him going like, oh, my God, mankind is going to star in a movie or something.
00:06:46
You're like, I want to care. Well, I just said to him as he was leaving, you know, we were supposed to go to breakfast.
00:06:50
We talked about it on lunch. And then I was like, I'm sorry, this is my WrestleMania.
00:06:54
Yeah. He's like, I know. He understands. He lives it. He lives it. He knows. He made us coffee and he made us like a spread as if we were like reporters.
00:07:04
But I have to say, I've never had the experience of when we started talking about the reality of it, getting waves of chills and just continuing to get waves of chills.
00:07:13
I was laying down. It was four hours later. I was still getting chills. And it's like, it's a feeling that I think everybody wanted to have and everyone thought
00:07:22
they would never get to have. Right. Everybody that cares about this case or has been paying attention.
00:07:26
My favorite, I just, I mean, Reddit, I love Reddit. And last night it was like, it was my like companion.
00:07:33
And a couple of the things I thought were so funny. One person put up a, fuck, I should find them.
00:07:39
Can you find, no, put up a thing of that, that there's going to be a fucking sale on
00:07:44
yearbooks from 1972 and 1973 in Sacramento today. And also that all the people who have a fucking lifetime subscription to
00:07:54
classmates.com are really bummed right now. So all the people who were like looking through the yearbooks,
00:07:59
they were like, should I do it a one year, a three year or a lifetime? Right. And then they're just like,
00:08:03
why the lifetime? But you never know there. Somebody else could come up. Yeah. I mean,
00:08:08
it's not, that's true. Oh, it's so crazy. And then when we were talking about it on, like, we were basically texting on two different threads.
00:08:18
You texted me. We were texting on two different threads because Stephen hadn't responded yet, which is so unlike Stephen.
00:08:24
What were you doing? Stephen's the first responder at all times. Stephen's the first.
00:08:27
When I saw that. He starts everything. And then I thought it was from Stephen because he's the one who's always, like, updating us on these crazy shit.
00:08:32
Yes. I was at Margaritaville. You are so fired. It's unbelievable. Unbelievable how fired you are.
00:08:40
You're beyond fired. Leave the equipment. Get the fuck out of here. Show us how to use it.
00:08:44
Right. Feed my cats while we're in Europe. Take care of business. Yeah. Please get the fuck out.
00:08:48
And I just want to say how Stephen's mustache. Did you see me keep trying to videotape you?
00:08:53
A little bit. You caught me. I don't. There's no like casual way. It's my like anxious thing of like.
00:08:57
I know it is. I was just like nervously like holding on to it the whole time. Well, I just wanted to be like this is how it is.
00:09:01
I had my fist in my mouth. Yeah. Like I couldn't bite my nails enough. I just had to then go full fist like an infant.
00:09:07
I mean, we were leaning closer and closer into the computer as it was going on. Right.
00:09:12
oh okay but also i have to say and just as like the casual uh almost like you know as this info
00:09:21
yeah um that was such an unsatisfying press conference because we know he's in custody
00:09:27
we now know his name we know that i mean that fucking mugshot is so uncool it is so unnerving
00:09:34
yeah and upsetting looking but it he did have some scrapes on his forehead which it looks like
00:09:39
The cops may have accidentally thrown an elbow. Well, here's what I took away from them explaining how they detained him,
00:09:46
that they were suspecting he was going to try to kill himself, which I know is something that happens a lot with older suspects
00:09:53
when they finally find them and they get that knock at the door and they fucking shoot themselves.
00:09:57
Yes, that's right. So it sounds like maybe they had to, I mean, I'm just obviously conjecture being out of my mind,
00:10:02
but maybe they had to fucking tackle him to get a gun away from him. Yes. Or they had some kind of like they were so prepared because they had gone through so much heartbreak that they already had a guy coming in his back door.
00:10:15
You know, I mean, something like that works just like they I would. First of all, I'm so mad. Paul Holes didn't get to talk during that.
00:10:21
You have basically. Well, Paul Holes' appearance view is way too high at this point.
00:10:26
He's standing in the background. He press conference. He was like the the he was the wallpaper of that entire press conference.
00:10:33
It was just like step forward. Cut out. It's not even him. he like sold them the cutout for $500 for a one-time use.
00:10:39
And now it's going around to all the craft stores in the area. Cause all the people that knit and do hand stitching and all that are like,
00:10:46
yes, polls. Um, but I wish, yes, I wish we could have just gotten the, the reason those reporters kept asking the same question over and over.
00:10:57
And then Anne Marie started to get a little pissy because Anne Marie's like, I control the information.
00:11:01
You can tell she's just like, I don't like this fact that there's data miners that know more than I do.
00:11:06
Totally. Clearly. But just the idea that we just want someone just walk us through real quick the day before up to the arrest.
00:11:14
Right. How, what, where. Right. Or even like, I mean, of course, what I'm dying to know is what, you know, it's the thing of what led them to suspect this person enough to collect his DNA.
00:11:25
Was it a tip? Was it, you know, was he on a list? I mean, it had to have been a tip, right?
00:11:30
It had to have been Otherwise why would they have I mean he fits the profile is what obvious about it He 72 years old So he in the right time frame He was he had access to police scanners which is something they always suspected because he was a cop which wasn something that they had you know didn seem like something they were looking into But no but that many had access to you know there like little things there that would have made him a suspect But I bet there were thousands of those people For sure So there had to be at least one or two tips of like And then you look at the photos side by side of him at that time The Navy photo of him And the fucking a couple of the sketches are like
00:12:08
Dead on. Dead on. That hairline is a super match. That's the thing I love to do.
00:12:12
Yes, that's right. The lips, the nose in that one picture where his eyes are real sunken in.
00:12:17
It's like we were just talking about how and what we should put this up on Instagram.
00:12:20
But the photo that is the most realistic and creepy that always gave me chills. looks the least like him. Yes. And the one that's kind of like, Oh, someone didn't know how to
00:12:28
fucking draw looks the most like it's exactly him. I apologize to whoever fucking drew that.
00:12:34
I'm a piece of shit. But see, don't you think that that's, I mean, obviously, but that's part
00:12:39
of what all of this is, is we've been in a panic making things up this whole time of like, here's
00:12:45
my theory. Here's what I think, you know, this thing obviously leads to this thing. You can't,
00:12:49
how can you not think it's this person? Because look at this, he did these things. My obsession
00:12:52
is like, I was like secretly in my mind, but never had the guts to say it was like, he's
00:12:56
some kind of a gymnast. He works at Cirque du Soleil. That thing of him like jumping over fences and shit is so like, not, not the average person
00:13:05
can do that. Well, I wonder if, um, as we talked about in the episode where we did the skylight books
00:13:10
with Patton and, uh, everyone where he, they had that, um, tip come in that someone came
00:13:17
into a hospital with a broken shoulder and uh they had checked because they realized that jumping
00:13:23
over a fence he wouldn't have known that there was an incline oh right right so they went in and
00:13:28
they asked hospitals around like did you get some character coming in and there was a dude coming in
00:13:32
who fucking uh had a broken shoulder as soon as they were on to him and realized that his
00:13:37
idea was fake he fucking bolted and then the east area rapist uh was fucking out of commission for a
00:13:44
couple months yes fucking probably recovering you know allegedly recovering from his shoulder
00:13:49
injury yes because you can't you can't do all the things right that horrible things that he would be
00:13:54
doing with just one arm you can't control two people tie them up all that shit i mean so maybe
00:13:59
that's the fucking thing that they were like this dude has a old shoulder injury i don't know i mean
00:14:03
it had to be someone who put it together and now so let's in the uh i think it's both of our
00:14:10
favorite piece of information that we have learned that everyone else has learned online yes that this
00:14:15
the reason that joseph d'angelo who the police suspect is the golden state killer right the
00:14:21
reason he was kicked off the police force in auburn is because he was caught shoplifting
00:14:27
dog repellent and a hammer at a pay and save and fucking citrus heights do you tell me where that
00:14:33
is what's the place what are these places like too are they're real because you're from there
00:14:37
They're rural as fuck. So it's actually not. So Auburn is rural as fuck. Auburn is very, my college roommate lived there is from there.
00:14:45
And it's very like. It's not suburbs. It's like. No, it's rural, like horse people, farm people.
00:14:52
It's also like rolling hills with lots of coverage of oak trees. Is it like beautiful and people have expensive houses there?
00:14:59
Yes. It's like. Expensive secluded houses. Exactly. Or like cheaper kind of. I mean, I think it's a full range because you can live there.
00:15:07
there cheaply, but also on a nice, like an acre of land that looks amazing. Like everything comes
00:15:12
with two oak trees type of place is the feel. Also remember that story I told you about the girl
00:15:17
my roommate was friends with who got up in the middle of the night and there was a man in the
00:15:21
hallway. So she's just started making that noise. That's Auburn. That happened in Auburn.
00:15:27
Jesus. So it's a little bit like, it's, it's, it's as sketchy as a country area can be.
00:15:33
Right. So you think it's safe, but it's so secluded, so secluded that it's it's farm safe.
00:15:39
So like that's shotgun level safe. If you scream, your fucking neighbors aren't going to hear you.
00:15:43
They they if they hear you, they won't be there for seven minutes. Right. And they also will mind their own fucking business.
00:15:48
Yeah. So you can scream if there's a pre-agreed screaming situation. But oh, so my point with that was, oh, just, you know, then there's and we talked about this in the Skylight Books episode.
00:16:01
discussion, him cutting that dog open. Like, I now want to know when he got caught for shoplifting.
00:16:09
That was Goleta. It was? So it was before or after? Because he cut the dog. If you listen to the book, yeah, he cut a dog who came upon him while he was prowling.
00:16:21
Fucking cut the dog open. The dog survived. Don't worry. But the dog repellent is interesting for two reasons.
00:16:28
because one, that this fucking hound dogs who are sniffing his trail. And in the book, they talk about how they lose the fucking trail at some point.
00:16:36
They can't follow him. And also the victim said that he had a weird smell that they couldn't place.
00:16:44
Which I've always wondered about. I got an email recently from a fucking cool dude who was like suspecting that it was a migrant worker.
00:16:50
And then we were both like maybe the fertilizer was a weird smell. It smells familiar.
00:16:54
Something like that. Right. And we were talking, you and I were talking about if it were a migrant worker, it would be such a good hide in plain sight type of job.
00:17:02
Because if he was kind of like, you know, acting like he was, say, a down and out person that's just trying to blend in, like nobody's going to be like, I am suspicious of this guy.
00:17:14
That's it's the perfect kind of society to blend into and have nobody's going to say anything about anybody.
00:17:20
But nope, it's a fucking local dad, husband, neighbor, neighbor. ex-cop which is even a better fucking way to hide to blend in right well the ultimate fucking way
00:17:32
right it can't be this old white guy in a white t-shirt with white hair because it's just an old
00:17:37
man it's just an old man that every once in a while yells fuck in the street which is what the
00:17:41
neighbors allege about the alleged golden state killer on the on the alleged news that we allegedly
00:17:48
watched a minute ago. Oh my God. And then we were talking about, okay, so everyone one of everyone favorite clues or like conjectures is that at the town hall meeting that was had about the East Area Rapist while it was going on that that he must have been there because a man stood up and said I don believe that he would have that he be able to break into someone house when the husband home
00:18:16
And no man would no man would let that happen. And three months later, everyone's like a couple of days later.
00:18:21
No, three months later, that man's house got broken into, which could have been a coincidence.
00:18:25
We don't really know. But and they were attacked. Right. They were attacked and the husband got tied up.
00:18:30
And I mean, his wife was right. Horrible. So God was he was a cop, you know, was he would be so much less suspicious to be there.
00:18:38
Like when we're looking in the at the photo of who's in the crowd, we're not looking at the cops.
00:18:42
Right. The people in uniform. I would fucking glance right over them. Yeah, especially like if he had the cop thing and it would be interesting to be able to figure out when that news conference was or whatever they called it, the town meeting.
00:18:54
Town hall meeting, I think, yeah. And because they said he was an Auburn cop from 76 to 79.
00:18:59
Right. So he did that lie in that time frame. And then he could have even been standing in the front.
00:19:04
Yep. He could have had his uniform on. He could have been on stage fucking with a bunch of cops.
00:19:09
Which is the thing that, so we were all texting with Billy Jensen last night, who helped finish Michelle McNamara's book.
00:19:17
And he's also a crime reporter himself. And we were talking about all of this where it's just like, we were just saying, he said himself, I'm afraid this is a dream.
00:19:30
I'm afraid this is a dream because it's all becoming so cinematically, like, it's so heightened that it's a cop hiding in plain sight.
00:19:38
Yeah. It's just everything about this is as surreal as it can be. And then, you know, on Reddit, they're talking about like, well, why would a cop steal?
00:19:47
But someone was like, it makes sense as someone who likes a thrill. And the East Area Rapist, it almost was like he got off on almost getting caught because he did a lot of fucking creepy, weird things that were over the top.
00:20:01
Dangerous. Dangerous. you know and so someone having a getting needing to get off on like just stealing a quick thing
00:20:09
that would make sense that fucking kleptomania thrill that you get but also because he was a cop
00:20:14
i bet you he had seen things where people they found the receipt for something and traced it
00:20:19
back and these are they only make these kind of hammers and carry them at this place so he's like
00:20:23
there will be no trace of any of this stuff so he because he left stuff behind a lot yeah and so
00:20:28
But almost like, why would he do that unless he did it on purpose? Yeah, because he's saying you can't catch it.
00:20:34
Or you can't trace this to anywhere because I fucking stole it. I know he's working on like fucking nine different levels.
00:20:42
I wonder if the hammer had the name of the store on it the way some of them do. And it's like he was going to leave it behind to be like, I was even at this store and you don't know who I am.
00:20:52
Because I didn't interact with a sales girl or whatever. Yeah, because it would lead people there and then da da.
00:20:58
Because then this girl Sally would be like, well, I sold a hammer to this cop dude that I know.
00:21:04
Dead end. Doesn't matter. Nope. Wouldn't happen. Yeah. No trace. If you spend all day waiting to take your bra off, it might be time for Third Love.
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an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. It's beyond. They have to make sure he doesn't kill himself. They have to get him
00:24:00
talk. This is the part that gave me the most fucking chills that anything ever has.
00:24:04
There's in Michelle's book, and it's known that sometimes he would start crying in the middle
00:24:10
and say, I'm sorry, mommy, or fuck you, mommy, and like kind of lose it. And a lot of people
00:24:16
were wondering, you know, was that just him? Is that like a red herring? Is he trying to
00:24:21
throw them off and make him think he's crazy, something like that? Okay, so this guy,
00:24:25
the fucking amazing sleuths on Reddit did all this fucking sleuthing. This guy, Joseph fucking
00:24:31
D'Angelo, when he was younger, was engaged. They found the engagement fucking article to a woman
00:24:37
named Bonnie. Bonnie married someone else. He married someone else. And that was in 1976.
00:24:46
And one of the women who was sexually assaulted insisted that no, he laid down and said,
00:24:50
fuck you, Bonnie. I remember that. Not fuck you, mommy. Wow. So yeah, I remember reading the fuck
00:24:58
you, Bonnie thing. So is that recently? And this dude was fucking engaged to a woman named Bonnie
00:25:03
and the engagement got broken off somehow. And was that the piece that made the fine,
00:25:07
the final thing go click? Like could just uncovering that old, an old engagement that
00:25:13
shit doesn't get recorded by the county. No only weddings do like, right. How would you know that
00:25:19
Unless suddenly Bonnie's like, is Bonnie the one who's like, you need to look at my fucking ex.
00:25:23
He was, I broke off my engagement with him for whatever fucking reason. For this reason and that reason.
00:25:27
Does he like to eat fucking dog repellent? I don't know. Wait, what, that was the other one.
00:25:33
There was another one that was fucking great. What was it? Jesus Christ. It's so, uh, shaking.
00:25:44
It's like a million. it's almost like the feeling is supposed to be that like the,
00:25:50
um, homeland red string board. It's almost like now we're done with that, but actually a brand new one is starting.
00:25:57
There's even more now. There's even more of those red fucking things. I want to know like what connection he,
00:26:03
we still want to know what connection he had to the other cities. There's always been this guess of like,
00:26:06
maybe, well, there was the, um, city planner. Maybe he worked for an architecture firm,
00:26:10
right? So what's the thing about this company he worked for? Billy Jensen was telling us about it too.
00:26:15
So there was an article that they found, or it looked like it was something out of an old yearbook.
00:26:22
So this is like the yearbook data. Okay. And it said that he, I think it might have been his little thing.
00:26:29
They used to write a little chunk instead of like a yearbook quote. What was it in?
00:26:33
What instrument you played with? So he worked for a place called Sierra Hoist and Hall or some shit like that.
00:26:38
Yeah, I have the name in here. But essentially I said to Billy, like, maybe that's the, because they always thought he either had construction connections.
00:26:48
Or he was in a class learning how to be an architect. Architecture or like a landscape designer.
00:26:53
And that's because of the homework fucking piece of paper. Which is like my favorite fucking evidence in the world.
00:26:59
It's so creepy. And on the back of it. Is this from your spinoff podcast, My Favorite Evidence?
00:27:04
Oh, I didn't tell you. Where you just read evidence. In a fucking monotone voice.
00:27:09
Where he writes punishment on the back of a piece of paper. That part in fucking I'll Be Gone in the Dark is chilling.
00:27:16
Okay, go on. It's so scary. No, no, no. In high school. It's just there are things on that.
00:27:21
That company. He was a diver, which you know divers have like nut bodies. Right.
00:27:27
Like you have to be fit like crazy and humongous calves. Right. Swimmer. Divers, they have to stand on their toes on a diving board.
00:27:35
Their calves are. Hold themselves up. And that means he was a good swimmer probably too.
00:27:39
which is like calves for days. Yeah. So wait, tell me more about the arc of the,
00:27:43
the company that, what do they do? I don't know. I have no idea. I just saw that it,
00:27:48
the thing that he sent us, it's, it's Sierra hoist and crane. So it's basically,
00:27:53
if you have some, anything that you need pulled up by a crane, those were last name or pulled out.
00:27:59
No, no, no. It's like the two things, the company, they hoist stuff and they crane.
00:28:03
And they, they, they will drive a crane somewhere and they will hoist the fuck out of
00:28:06
something. I was like, Mr. Hoist and Mr. Crane. I wonder why they hired this teen.
00:28:10
Mr. Hoist was the worst boss. He was such a dick. You couldn't be four minutes late.
00:28:14
Oh my God. Yeah. So there's just a little bit of that. Like, it's just these things that we have no idea how they actually apply,
00:28:20
but then your mind is going crazy of like, but just for years thinking about this stuff and not having an answer and
00:28:26
suddenly just being like, Oh yeah. Hoist and crane means they pulled trees out of the lots where they
00:28:31
eventually built those, you know, your mind. That's what my mind did of like, and I said that to Billy Jensen.
00:28:36
He's like, possibly. I know. Billy Jensen's being like, so we harassed Billy Jensen last night.
00:28:42
I deleted it before I, so he, he messaged the two of us in a group text. Yeah. The reason is, did you see my original message?
00:28:51
I don't know. I don't think so. I thought I deleted it before either of you could see it because I was like, Georgia, chill the fuck out.
00:28:58
But I met, he doesn't even know us that well. Like, don't be a fucking man. We've met him twice.
00:29:02
Yeah. I messaged him and said, the three of us, and said, Billy, please tell us anything.
00:29:08
I pinky swear we won't tell. Like, I just wanted, I knew he had more information.
00:29:11
And I just wrote, pinky swear we won't say anything. And then immediately, it's like, you are fucking psychotic, Georgia.
00:29:15
And I deleted it. But I guess he already saw it before I deleted it. So you didn't see it.
00:29:20
No, I did see that message. You saw my message. And when I saw that message, I was like, fuck yes.
00:29:25
Oh, I loved that you did that. What is wrong with you? No, I loved that you did that.
00:29:29
Because also I think he wouldn't tell us anything he couldn't tell us. And then I was like, well, what if he tells us something?
00:29:34
It gets out through some other way. And he thinks that we're the ones who fucking spilled the beans.
00:29:38
Right. So I just I was just like, forget it. But I guess you can't delete messages.
00:29:41
I didn't know that. I think you can only delete them from your own. Yeah. Maybe it's just like you never have to acknowledge it again for your own life.
00:29:48
But I thought it was hilarious that you did that. And I think this is that special circumstance of like it as if we all love the Philadelphia Eagles Right I never understood sports fans I get it now This is it This is the feeling of it You so engaged You been following it for so long You care about these people
00:30:05
Our team has had bad luck for fucking 40 years. And everyone thinks that we're cursed.
00:30:11
And we fucking won today. Yeah, the Super Bowl. Also, those women who appeared in the Case File three-part series that were the victims
00:30:19
that spoke for themselves. That they're fucking, the woman whose mother was the victim, their sisters or family.
00:30:24
that she they read that ann marie read that that was her letter that was dead from debbie because
00:30:28
her mom was murdered and that part of that book is so fucking sad when she's like the rebellious
00:30:34
teenage daughter and then she comes home one day and her mother's murdered it's so bad and his
00:30:37
brother speaking yeah they're the fucking players and we were rooting for them this whole time and
00:30:41
they finally fucking won and they had to like they have had to endure that motherfucker mr
00:30:47
harrington uh no not mr harrington i thought you meant that in a positive way like that
00:30:52
motherfucking badass the east area rapist and the golden state killer allegedly joseph
00:30:58
as police have named uh-huh by a hundred percent dna uh-huh would call them and harass them years
00:31:07
afterwards that's another one of the things so fucked up it's so fucked up that's another one
00:31:11
of the things is there's that we all watched the uh it was the id special what was it called um
00:31:16
it's not over yet until it's over yes remember the golden state killer it's not over right yeah
00:31:20
So that's an incredible documentary. And actually one of the guys, the like arm,
00:31:25
they keep calling the armchair detective or whatever. He's one of the guys on Reddit who was like out,
00:31:29
like he was the one to follow. He was telling us everything. Knew it all. Yeah. So he,
00:31:33
they posted. He was great in that special too. He was really good. They posted a thing about one of the calls was recorded.
00:31:40
The gonna kill you recording. Yes. And everyone tried to figure out in the, in the documentary,
00:31:45
what was playing in the background. It sounded like people were talking. I went down that rabbit hole one night and it was uh they figured out what movie it was no no it was
00:31:54
a tv movie from the 1970s and they figured out what part of the movie it was but now they're
00:31:59
saying this one guy this random fucking dude on reddit posted yeah but I think I heard some like
00:32:03
a police uh scanner chatter in the background and it was just a blip it was just a fucking blip on
00:32:10
reddit and it's fucking legit it's true that's what they fucking heard because not because he
00:32:16
had a fucking scanner because he was a fucking cop he was a cop i've had a lot of coffee i mean
00:32:21
no no no it it look this is like this is an explosion this is a fucking explosion it's so
00:32:29
i just didn't think it was gonna happen i really didn't i just bought um i just bought a uh what
00:32:36
is it called when you monitor your heart to see how fast it's beating uh was it a heart monitor
00:32:39
uh yeah should we go see how like a cuff yeah yeah put your cuff on okay i'm gonna go get it
00:32:45
press and we're going to see. Yeah. Let's keep your, let's keep you medically observed. No,
00:32:49
I just, um, it is such a strange, no, it's funny. Let's just see how you're doing. But also we have
00:32:55
to add the coffee element into it as well. We've all been drinking a lot of coffee.
00:33:00
You know what? What? I'm not going to do it. How come? Because it's weird. You don't want people knowing about your blood pressure. My blood pressure cuff.
00:33:10
Well, try to begin with right now. Anyways, that's not what we're talking about. I'm just
00:33:13
texting with my friend Dave Escandari who we all uh lived in Sacramento at the same time went to
00:33:18
we kind of all were like dropouts that then ended up going to Sacramento that Sac City was the junior
00:33:24
college there and he and uh uh we had this group of friends like six friends and we jokingly called
00:33:31
ourselves the 18th Street Hellcats oh my god because we all lived on 18th Street but it was
00:33:36
sarcastic but then we actually started doing it for real the best the Hellcats um but he texted
00:33:42
me this morning and I was like, isn't it weird? We lived there. Like this is this thing that,
00:33:47
that in my, and all my ego maniacism, I'm just like, but this is a weird thing where this is
00:33:52
part of my history. Like I do know I had my, like when I said to my sister today, I of course called
00:33:58
her in the morning was like, they caught him. He's this, he's that da da da da. And when I said
00:34:02
he lives in citrus Heights, the man they arrested lives in citrus Heights. My sister goes, Oh,
00:34:07
remember when we stopped to drive out to citrus Heights when I had to do that thing for work.
00:34:10
And like we started talking about and it's what I've already told you, but there is this there's a bleakness or there was in the 90s, the 80s and 90s in Sacramento.
00:34:19
And this like these long streets that went on forever. And all it was was asphalt and mini malls and a horizon that had nothing on it.
00:34:29
And I thought I was fucking dying every day in that city. And just that idea that like it almost feels I know it's also serving.
00:34:38
It just almost feels like I was justified a little bit like bad fucking vibes. Those bad vibes were real.
00:34:44
I keep thinking about. So I'm from Irvine where a couple like the later in the 80s where when I was a kid growing up there, there was a couple incidents there and murders and stuff.
00:34:56
It's too much. It's it's a weird like suddenly you're watching a movie and suddenly you walk by in the background as an eight year old.
00:35:04
Right. That's the feeling. It's this weird, like, am I background player in this thing?
00:35:09
Which is just, I think that's just human, that's human nature. Human narcissism.
00:35:13
A little bit. Fair enough. I mean, fine. Well, it's the places that we thought of and that we inhabited that were sinister and dark.
00:35:24
And either were not at all what we thought they were or were exactly what they thought, what we thought they were if we were creepy kids.
00:35:31
Yeah, that's right. It's like maybe we were getting a psychic feeling. Maybe it was just too much asphalt from my precious, you know, delicate system.
00:35:40
Maybe your brain inhaled too much asphalt. Can I give a shout out really quickly to a murderino on Twitter?
00:35:46
Her name is Kara Stone. It's K-U-R-R-A Lynn. She tweeted just snuck into the press only conference for the Golden State Killer by saying I was with SSDGM Daily News Honey And did she make fake press credentials or did she just fucking she just like
00:36:06
You don't need them if you're confident. She just nailed it. She had her little hat with the word press on the ring.
00:36:11
Oh, wait. She says, I'm kind of freaking out because I'm wearing my murderino shirt
00:36:14
and everyone else is dressed very nice. I don't, I didn't think this one through.
00:36:18
Then let's see what she wrote. Will you be live tweeting? she said I'm trying to look casual because people are staring at me
00:36:25
I love her so much for the SSDGM news someone says you didn't lie though you are now
00:36:35
I think that's all she wrote she's probably in fucking jail county jail we'll bail her out
00:36:45
no we will not ever if you do something you're on your own Steven will use his money that we pay him finally.
00:36:53
His birthday money. His birthday money. We got him a U.S. bond. Bail money. For his birthday.
00:36:59
Okay, that's it. Well, it looked like they were having that, obviously, that press conference, like, in front of the station or whatever.
00:37:06
So I wonder how they would have gotten it, like, you're not allowed in and you are allowed in.
00:37:11
I think pretty easily. I bet she could roll on up. Like, parking lot? Parking lot style?
00:37:15
Yeah. I mean, yeah. I've lied by saying I'm with my community college journalism team to get into like things before.
00:37:22
Nice. It's not true. What else? It wasn't true that you were on the journalism team or the whole story you just told me wasn't true.
00:37:29
No, the journalism team. I don't know. You just immediately go, that's not true.
00:37:33
Is it journalism a team? I've never snuck in. Oh, that's true. Howard Dean conference.
00:37:38
No. Sure. Were you there when he did the weird scream? Unfortunately, I was there like two weeks before.
00:37:43
Oh, shit. And I was like, I love this guy. Howard Dean Howard Dean was great and then he fucking screamed um what was I going to say okay
00:37:52
if you could get one like how do you do it question or one like why why this why did he do this
00:37:59
answered what would it be or like confirmation because I have this thing of like the couple that was killed which is what he
00:38:08
got arrested for in Sacramento because the goddamn motherfucking statute of limitations about rape
00:38:13
ends pretty quickly, so it wouldn't matter anyways. So they got him on these murders.
00:38:18
But so the murder... I feel like that's changing in places, though, isn't it? One would hope.
00:38:22
I think there was one story we read where they were changing it. They are, yeah.
00:38:25
Anyway. So Brian and Kate Majore, they were that sweet couple who were walking their poodle.
00:38:32
And it's just like a freak thing that didn't fit the MO at all, but was, for various reasons,
00:38:40
pretty sure that it was East Area Rapist. they encountered him somehow and he chased them down and shot
00:38:46
them in a backyard. And threw their poodle in the pool. Which is creepy and weird.
00:38:52
So maybe the poodle happened upon him and was barking and so he threw it in the pool. They got in an
00:38:56
altercation. Or maybe Brian fucking recognized him as a fellow cop because he was an Air Force officer.
00:39:05
And so he had to kill them. This is different than this time where there was an FBI
00:39:10
agent that chased him down. That's a different one, right? Who got, he got on a bike and then
00:39:15
he was in a car. No, that's a different one. That's so crazy. And that guy got shot, but didn't die.
00:39:19
Right. I don't know if he got, I don't know that part. Okay. Yeah. It's so, because it went on so
00:39:23
long and there's all these, there's so many of these sexual assaults. And there are people who
00:39:28
know every single one of these incidents. And we know like the people on Reddit are like MIT
00:39:33
and we are essentially entertainment tonight. So like, if you want good, the good stuff,
00:39:39
go on to these Reddit threads because there are people that have been working on this shit
00:39:42
for fucking eight years. And I mean, I'm wondering how many more are now going to be tied in
00:39:48
that don't have DNA or he's gonna, they said, I remember seeing he's talking. They caught this guy last night.
00:39:55
He's talking. Right. I wonder if he's just like, you know, because a lot of these fucking killers
00:39:59
are actually cocky at the end of the day and they want to be like, no, no, no, that's not how it happened.
00:40:03
And they want credit for these things that they're not getting credit for. They're being very well manipulated
00:40:08
by detectives in the interrogation to like get them to spill. And I think in this day and age,
00:40:14
like truly because it's 2018, they all those guys know how not to do it. Right. I'm sure they're very, very concerned
00:40:22
about exactly how they interrogate him to get him to open and stay open. And not only that,
00:40:27
so that it's immiscible in court. Exactly. So they're not going to fuck it up in any way.
00:40:31
No, no. They're putting their best guys on this one. And I say their best guys. Ladies, guys and ladies.
00:40:35
Guys and ladies, but probably especially Paul Holes. If Paul Holes came into the room, you did something wrong.
00:40:40
He puts his hands on his hips underneath his blazer and starts explaining shit to you.
00:40:44
You're just like, yes, mea culpa Paul Holes. I got to get this off my chest. Or if he's like, Joe, what did you do?
00:40:50
Joe, you son of a bitch. And he does some kind of secret cop thing with him. Gets him a ring pop.
00:40:56
His favorite ring pop. Hey, man, I brought you a ring pop. The ring pop theory. No, the grape is your favorite.
00:41:03
Oh, my God. You love grape. You love grape. It's also because he's so old. To me, that was the other part of not having hope.
00:41:13
I mean, just in terms of like, if he did all these things and he's not doing them anymore,
00:41:18
there's no way he's still alive. And not even a 72-year-old like my dad, Marty. My dad, Marty, looks fucking great for 72.
00:41:24
He's got a lot of time left. That guy's a fucking, this Joe guy is an old fucking piece of shit.
00:41:30
It looks like something's been weighing on him. Maybe, yeah. over the years stressing him out yeah my dad's 78 and i think he looks better than that guy
00:41:38
looks better than my dad your dad looks better than me uh keep it healthy you got to keep it
00:41:45
healthy you got to walk every day this trick is don't have baggage hanging over your head like
00:41:51
yes being a fucking rapist and murderer being like a serial rapist to a degree where i think and also it I understand that Anne was like quit trying to say that a bunch of other people did this work and we didn do it because we been doing the work
00:42:06
I get that. Or like, I wonder if even Michelle McNamara, they want to say thank you for bringing it
00:42:11
to the public eye, but like giving her credit might even piss them off somehow a little
00:42:17
bit. Well, some of them. It takes away from the people who do it for a living maybe.
00:42:22
Right. Or how many, yeah. I just wish one person had said before Michelle McNamara started writing articles, doing all the shit, writing for fucking different magazines, saying we need to call him the Golden State Killer.
00:42:35
We need to collect all these things together. I'm going to interview everyone. I'm going to go to all of the scenes.
00:42:40
I'm going to fucking. I'm going to make these cops talk to each other. Dedicate my life to this.
00:42:44
And there was an element of pressure from her. They're not going to talk about being pressured, of course, by a citizen.
00:42:50
Right. But I think that her bringing it to the media made them go, yes, we are working on it.
00:42:56
And like maybe that is not always a positive thing with the police and and like data miners and armchair experts.
00:43:03
But at the same time, no one was fucking talking about it before. And this was a thing that like of all the murders and rape cases in the nation, it was obscure.
00:43:16
It was not well known. If this fucking hashtag right now was, what was it? Eerons?
00:43:21
Eerons? Yeah. East Area Rapist. What was it? East Area Rapist. Original Night Stalker.
00:43:25
Original Night Stalker. So it's Eerons. Right. If this fucking hashtag was Eerons right now, do you think you'd be half as fucking blowing
00:43:30
up as Golden State, hashtag Golden State Killer? Right. Which is like the fucking, she was, they were right, a beautiful, catchy name.
00:43:37
Go listen to, there's a three-part podcast called I'll Be Gone in the Dark that just
00:43:42
explains with all the players how this book came to be. It's really well done. It's a really quick listen if you just need to catch up.
00:43:50
Get all the info. And one of them is that they knew that this needed a fucking better name, you know?
00:43:55
Because it needed to reflect that he fucking terrorized the entire state in all these counties.
00:44:00
There was no jurisdiction that was more important. Although, you know, Sacramento obviously is the grandfather and the original hunting ground and all that.
00:44:08
But that all these other things happen and it had to be cohesively approached. And I do think that, and maybe that's just because that's the, that's what I like.
00:44:19
Yeah. But I think her going around and getting evidence herself and just being like, fine, I'll do
00:44:24
it. Just copy it for me. Made everyone else go like, no, no, no, no, we got it. Yeah.
00:44:28
Like she wasn't going to stop. She fucking, she branded this fucking thing. She really did.
00:44:34
And that's. Brilliantly. Yeah. Brilliantly branded. And then wrote about it. I know we talked about it so much.
00:44:41
I just, it's like, it's like, um, I called my, I told my friend today, oh, it's fact prose
00:44:47
because it's as dry as facts can be. She then turns it into this thing where suddenly you're looking at a picture.
00:44:53
You're not reading a sentence. Poetic. Yeah. Words that I would never use, but fit so perfectly.
00:44:59
I don't know what that's called. Good writing. Um, you know what I did last night?
00:45:03
I was like, okay, finally, I'm just refreshing everything. It's the same information.
00:45:06
It's fucking three in the morning. There's nothing new. Uh, I took a Xanax. because which is I never do anymore and I knew I had to and then I thought you were almost there
00:45:16
for 24 hours I know yeah then I put in my headphones which I always do to fall asleep I've
00:45:20
been listening to uh I needed something nice and light lately because I've been listening to fucking
00:45:25
I'll be gone in the dark at night and it's been scaring the shit out of me yes I've been listening
00:45:28
to fucking Douglas Adams lately but I fucking put on I'll be gone in the fucking dark in my
00:45:34
headphones and fell asleep to it wow and I it was awesome because it's a different story now
00:45:40
I was not freaking out and I was not scared. My heart was fucking happy as I listened to it and fell asleep.
00:45:47
And as Mr. Is it Hetherington or Harrington? Harrington. Mr. Harrington said. Bruce Harrington.
00:45:53
Bruce Harrington, the brother of one of the victims and his wife. Yeah. Those victims get to for the first time in fucking 40 something years, they get to rest easy.
00:46:03
And what I mean, what a relief that he's not dead. Yes. You know what a satisfying like.
00:46:08
Like it would be great if they found him and he was dead. glad we fucking at least found him exactly that would have been totally satisfying but this is a
00:46:15
different thing and and if they handle it right which i believe in these people that they will
00:46:20
and they're so by the book and they're i mean it was funny how crazy uh careful they started being
00:46:26
it's like why take questions if you're not going to answer your questions but also how about ann
00:46:30
marie getting super pissed when they're like is it related to mr cruel and she's like uh no yeah
00:46:36
Or it's just like, wait, what's the problem? Yeah. All these Australians are like, we're just waiting to hear our guy's been caught too.
00:46:42
Right. Because there are so many, there's so many, um, you know, I read the same article everybody
00:46:47
else did, but I was surprised. I didn't know there were that many MO matches. Yeah.
00:46:53
The eating, uh, like sticking around and eating. Yep. And surveilling for like weeks and months beforehand and all that.
00:47:00
Oh, it's so creepy. So creepy. It's so crazy. What about, what else? what else would you want to know um i want to know what the connections with the other locations are
00:47:12
obviously especially irvine i already texted my dad and said hey did you know an ex-cop
00:47:17
in irvine in 1986 that's such a good idea you're like did you ever hang out and talk to this guy
00:47:23
at the donut shop sure maybe i didn't that wasn't a slur against cops it was the first place like
00:47:28
where we want to be right now where would marty hang out like a whole foods type of place yeah
00:47:32
mothers they were called mother's market back then because he's a little bit of a hippie right he's a
00:47:36
fucking carabiding hippie kidding me now was Janet a hippie or was she just playing ball in the 70s
00:47:43
uh they were just like the health food fanatic hippies smoking pot chillies yeah
00:47:50
but they weren't they were uh they were yuppies oh okay yeah they were totally yuppies got it got it they
00:47:56
were can you be a yuppie and not have money yeah They lived the yuppie lifestyle.
00:48:04
If you could see this written, it would be fuppies, but faux yuppies. Faux yuppies.
00:48:10
Faux yuppies. That's exactly right. Yuppies. It would still have AUX, but fuppies.
00:48:17
I mean, I can't even think of what I want to hear of those near miss times. We know of the ones, but like in, cause I read that book by one of the other investigators.
00:48:25
and he wrote a self-published book that's that thick. It's so long and crazy. But it was basically just his first-hand experience
00:48:34
of over and over again getting called to these houses where the victims are sitting on the couch crying
00:48:40
and they had this horrible thing happen to them. And it's so incredible. One of the times he talks about
00:48:46
was a time where police pulled a guy over the morning after an attack. He had all this weird shit in his car
00:48:54
and they let him go anyway. And he got on the freeway north and basically toured Auburn.
00:48:59
Shit. Yes. And that part of the story, it's just like no one knows. And that was like my thing, alleged fucking all this other illegal shit.
00:49:09
But it's like if he was a cop and they saw him in his car, did they just go, oh, it's that guy.
00:49:14
Go ahead. You're fine. Yeah. Or like when you're a cop and you get pulled over, when they ask you for your license, you hand them your fucking cop ID.
00:49:21
And they're like, oh, go ahead. Yeah. It's over. That's not, there's no discussion.
00:49:25
It'd be, it'd be fucking disrespectful. Which I wonder if he kept all this shit around him.
00:49:30
So even if he was kicked off the fucking dude, still dressed up like him. And the prowling, maybe he wasn't prowling.
00:49:36
Maybe he was fucking walking around dressed. Well, I guess someone would have said they saw a cop dressed.
00:49:41
Yeah. A cop by himself would be weird. A cop car might be. No, I don't know. I would want to know also about the real estate element.
00:49:50
That thing where there was a guy that used to show up at open houses that would be across from places.
00:49:55
Or, I mean, that whole part is, I don't even know. I just want to know everything.
00:50:00
Me too. I think we will. I hope we do. I wonder if, I wish Billy would call us. Oh, you know what they were saying?
00:50:07
I was going to ask you because they were talking, but they were trying to get at this press conference,
00:50:12
They were just trying to get Amory and our boy Scott Jones, who I'm positive I drank with at Popeye's in the late 80s.
00:50:21
Popeye's, the worst bar in America. He looks so familiar to me. He's like every guy I had a crush on in Sacramento.
00:50:29
But they were trying to get them to answer questions about that surveillance time.
00:50:35
How exciting is it to think about those cops where they were in the lab. They were like, it's a fucking match.
00:50:41
Now go surveil him or get the, here's the thing. We need the thing to match it. It wouldn't be the match first.
00:50:47
They would go to get the match. This guy looks good. This guy looks good. It's ding.
00:50:51
It's 18 points on the 20 point chart. And then two guys go sit in a car waiting.
00:50:57
Now tell me, Georgia, you are now one of those guys. Okay. Or ladies. Or ladies.
00:51:02
Cause anything can happen. And we say guys and we mean people. We, yeah. So you are a police person that's gotten sent to surveil this very good looking suspect for as long as it takes so that he comes out and spits on the lawn.
00:51:18
Yeah. Throws his cup in the ditch. He's a litter. Like, what do you see? What's your dream thing of how that surveillance happened that they snuck his DNA?
00:51:28
Okay. Or or legally acquired? Well, I mean, it's really I feel like it seems so simple.
00:51:34
And the most obvious one is if he's a smoker. But the problem is, say he is a smoker and he puts a cigarette out in an ashtray.
00:51:43
Well, there's no way to prove that that's his actual butt unless it's a brand new clean
00:51:47
cigarette ashtray. But, you know, maybe he's a smoker and he flicks his fucking cigarette.
00:51:51
That guy doesn't look like a fucking health nut to me. So maybe he's a smoker. He definitely looks like a smoker and a person that drinks a big gulp all day long.
00:52:00
Absolutely a big gulp. So, I mean, you know, they have their ways. the spitting on the ground is good, but it'd have to be like, I remember there was one case where
00:52:09
they did the spitting on the ground, but the only way they were able to use it is because it had
00:52:13
just rained. And so the spit was sitting on top of the rain and the cement. So it wasn't like part
00:52:19
of the ground because then it'd be like, well, this is... They couldn't introduce all the other
00:52:22
spit and weird shit that was there. Exactly. Exactly. Or maybe they arrested him on something
00:52:27
else and got his DNA through that way. Like, you know what I mean? Maybe they, but it like, but he probably was so careful.
00:52:38
Yes. And there's no way that they would have been like, we got you for a stop. You ran a stop sign.
00:52:43
Hey, can we get your DNA by the way? No, not that guy. Then you'll never speak to that guy again.
00:52:48
He's going to lawyer up. Not the guy who, uh, was caught for shoplifting, a dog repellent and a hammer.
00:52:55
And then when they said you have to go into review for the Auburn Police Department, said no thanks and just took being dismissed.
00:53:02
Right. Because he didn't want to even talk about it. OK, well, so allegedly from what Reddit has told me that he has two daughters that were born in 81 and 86.
00:53:12
So, of course, they're my age ish. I looked them up on Facebook. Are we friends?
00:53:17
I don't think we are. But I want to know about them. And did they read Wobby Gone in the Dark?
00:53:22
did they ever say to mom and dad hey you guys freaking out that at that time of you know at
00:53:28
that time you guys we lived here because that has happened for other killers when their children
00:53:33
suspect them really family members suspect them yeah isn't that the um the happy face killer's
00:53:38
daughter is the reason like she's the reason article was she wrote that article recently
00:53:44
what's it called like i don't know but she did have a tv show for a little while where she would
00:53:48
go and meet other like she interviewed BTK wife you know she would go and talk to families and I would say this too yeah like nobody should be in any way contacted obviously Absolutely not But like we know that there all this weird access these days for people
00:54:07
Yeah. It would be living hell to be related to this person today. Do you know that they've already tracked down the Yelp review of what they're assuming Reddit is assuming is his wife's business?
00:54:19
No. And there's some like really negative Yelp review that what a fucking psycho she is.
00:54:24
But it's like, who knows where she is, what's going on, who wrote this review, if it's even her actual business, if it's even actually his wife.
00:54:32
But the article is called The Struggle to Find My Struggle to Find Peace as the Daughter of a Serial Killer on Huffington Post, which I keep meaning to read.
00:54:42
Oh, that's her smiley face killer? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Okay, what about you? So what is your, you're sitting in the interrogation room with him.
00:54:56
You have one fucking shot. What, what, what, what would, what tactic would you take?
00:55:06
I mean, I don't, I couldn't do it. I find like these criminals so abhorrent. Like I just don't even want to be anywhere in near the building.
00:55:18
But I would want Paul, if I could be inside Paul Holes or like just watch as what he did.
00:55:24
What I would have your DNA inside, his DNA inside of you. Right? Are you being dirty about Paul Holes?
00:55:30
I am. If you could be, if you could be surrounded your heart and spirit and smells and tastes
00:55:37
with Paul inside Paul Holes. If I could just surveil Paul Holes, this is, we can't keep doing this, but.
00:55:44
Okay. Interrogate Steven. Like he's the. Now I can't. This improv is so weird. I'm kidding.
00:55:49
I'm kidding. Just interrogate, Stephen. I just. Okay. So you're saying you were at Margaritaville, but you don't seem hung over at all today.
00:55:58
Yeah. Or that you have sugar poisoning from. What kind of margaritas you get? Yeah.
00:56:02
I got the spicy, the hot, hot, hot. And I'm very hung over. Oh, you're pulling it off really nicely.
00:56:09
Is that that glow about you? It's that 31 year old about him. Oh, that's right. You're not hung over yet.
00:56:14
You fucking son of a bitch. Stephen, there's bacon and fucking bagels. Right here.
00:56:18
Steven throws up on all the equipment. Go throw up on it. Oh. Wait, you're... Did you press play?
00:56:23
Did you remember to press play? You drank margaritas that were spicy. I love spicy margaritas.
00:56:28
It has like jalapenos in it and stuff. Yes, the best. With salt? Yeah. Oh, the best.
00:56:33
I have such an ulcer. You're old. You're... Not you're old, but you're... You don't...
00:56:37
It's too late. You already said it, and it's recorded. You are an old drinker, meaning like you weren't around.
00:56:43
You just did it again. I did. you're a fucking old drinker i know oh i know you missed the period of like good drinks
00:56:52
a hundred percent no i you were too young i burned out on like bartles and james right acid stomach
00:56:57
from wine coolers yeah yeah that's how bad it was you didn't get a drink fucking classy shit with
00:57:02
no the mixology was far off no one had a fucking curly ass mustache when i was in bars it was all
00:57:08
free popcorn right and like fucking miller light in a small glass it was dark shit and it was in
00:57:14
Sacramento and smoking aloud and smoke. Please smoke. Waitresses handing you lit cigarettes.
00:57:21
That never happened. But yeah, no, it was like, it was as it was like, it was a hundred years ago.
00:57:26
When I think about all, all of those times, they were like, here, become an alcoholic.
00:57:31
It's so easy. We want to, we want to make it happen as in, but when it's like nowadays,
00:57:35
they're like here, every drink is 14 fucking dollars. So you can only be an alcoholic,
00:57:39
but you're, if you're rich as fuck. And if you come anywhere near us with a cigarette,
00:57:43
we're going to murder you. Right. You, it's like, you have to be some kind of a connoisseur these days to be an alcoholic,
00:57:49
which I just don't have the energy for. And you see an alcoholic and you're like,
00:57:52
Oh, that guy must be rich. Yes. Cause it, cause you're buying drinks that have those huge ice,
00:57:57
ice cubes in them that are like, and they've designer ice cubes and they measure everything.
00:58:01
So like, you're not, it's like an ounce and a half of alcohol. And you're like, it doesn't matter.
00:58:05
I'm just going to swallow it really fast. Like giving my dog a treat where she, I look at George and go,
00:58:09
please just chew this twice. Like, please. And she'll just go like, I'll give her leftover steak from a dinner we were at,
00:58:16
and I hold it out, and she inhales it. She doesn't even taste it. I'm like, bite it twice.
00:58:21
You'll love the taste. It's even better. Elvis does that, too, with cookies. He sometimes just swallows them whole.
00:58:26
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01:01:26
Chris Fairbanks is just driving us to fucking Sacramento you know we could take the entire
01:01:31
drive up to Sacramento to explain to Chris Fairbanks what the entire case is and what's
01:01:35
happening he's saying um I never heard of this and I don't care and I still don't care I'm not
01:01:39
interested I also would just like to say this really quick um I know that Georgia posted our
01:01:45
text thread where I talk shit about Sacramento. And I just want people to know lots of people texting and saying,
01:01:50
it's not like that anymore. Please come. You're going to love it. Blah, blah, blah.
01:01:53
I hear you. I know it. And is that him? I don't know. Hold on. Oh, is it okay? Is it okay that we're recording our podcast?
01:02:02
We need confirmation. Yes, I do want to be on it. Very good. You guys. Yeah. Yep.
01:02:09
We're seeing, we're being real official. We're trying to be real. Yeah. we've said the word alleged 15 fucking times in the past two minutes the police the man the police
01:02:22
say is the golden state killer how are you you must be so thrilled why what's going on today
01:02:28
yeah no it's been a uh it's been definitely a crazy day congratulations i mean how long have
01:02:37
you been would you oh shit steven give me that charger um how long would you say you've been
01:02:44
working on this case altogether for me not that long it was only really after she died okay after
01:02:51
michelle died is when i started working on it i knew about it because i was friends with her and
01:02:55
i constantly would talk to her about it and i read about it um a lot but it was really only when she
01:03:02
died that I started getting into it. So because you are professionally, you are a crime reporter
01:03:07
anyway. I mean, that's your whole, this is your whole area. Correct. Yeah. I'm an investigative
01:03:12
crime journalist. Yeah. So, so basically you just jumped in when you were needed. Yeah. When she,
01:03:20
when she passed, my first thought was of the Golden State Killer. It wasn't, you know,
01:03:25
I knew other people would be thinking of Alice and thinking of Pat and I was just like, well,
01:03:30
did this guy win? Right. Yeah. And then it was about the book and it was, what can we do?
01:03:36
I will do anything I can to make sure that this book comes out because I want someone to do that for me because I know how much she worked on it.
01:03:44
You know, hours and hours and hours of working on it. Yeah. That's, that's what I,
01:03:48
that's what I made sure of. And did you watch this press conference they just gave?
01:03:53
I did. What'd you think? I don't necessarily know if I want to talk exactly about what I thought.
01:04:00
Okay. I think it was a lot of, it was very political. Yeah. I think they were definitely, the DAs were definitely all there and they were covering all their bases.
01:04:12
Bases or asses? You know, and I would have liked to have seen the guys that were in the trenches.
01:04:18
Yeah. Where they really worked on this case. Where was, where was Paul Holes and Ken Clark and, you know, Larry Poole or, you know, Crompton or Shelby.
01:04:30
or Erica, you know, those people that really worked it on a day-to-day basis, that really
01:04:35
took the stuff home. I mean, a lot of them did get mentioned, but this was very much a political thing.
01:04:41
They didn't tell us much. The two things that we did here, one of them that kind of buried a little bit, and the
01:04:47
press didn't exactly know to follow up on it, is that they confirmed that he was the
01:04:52
Vassalia ransacker. Right. They just like glazed over it. Yeah. The press didn't realize they were more interested in whether he was the guy from Australia
01:05:02
because they obviously all Googled Golden State Killer. That was the first thing that came up in Google News.
01:05:09
What about Anthony? There was that and also the fact that he was probably, I would put money on the fact that he was caught via DNA, familial DNA.
01:05:19
Oh, really? Yeah. from what they were saying was that you know they were led the words that they were using was that they were led
01:05:29
to a certain area and that they had to eliminate people which sounds like they got a last name or they
01:05:37
got somebody that had enough characteristics and enough of the markers from that DNA
01:05:43
of the killer and then they were able to go through and then the detective work that
01:05:49
two-level detective work that they were doing was really just saying, that's not the guy,
01:05:53
that's not the guy, eliminating people over and over and over again and then finally getting into the guy they they thought it was and then they you know they remarked that they had to wait for him you know they watched his activities or lack thereof which meant that he wasn leaving the house i was feeling that he
01:06:10
just was kind of a couch potato he was kind of sitting there and they were waiting for him to
01:06:14
leave the house so they can collect dna so they very well might have collected that dna what they
01:06:19
were calling discarded dna off of you know the way they did it with the grim sleeper was was off
01:06:25
of a piece of pizza i think yes that's right or like collecting his trash like doing trash collection
01:06:32
trash but you don't really they probably did it someplace else uh because trash you never know
01:06:37
who it could be and it gets a little messy for lack of a better term right no pun intended well
01:06:43
you know that's what we were talking about is we our theory is that these cops whatever they did
01:06:48
they did it so carefully and so exactly and so by the book to make sure that whatever they did couldn't be like that would hold up entirely.
01:06:56
I mean, that's a safe assumption, right? I think so. Yeah. I mean, they did go very fast, but you know,
01:07:03
when this was all breaking at two in the morning, my time, I, uh, you know, I was looking at it and I had just gotten a text from somebody saying, Hey,
01:07:12
there's a press conference tomorrow. What's that about? and then just started digging and calling people or texting people and emailing people.
01:07:19
And once I talked to one of the victims' families and they said that somebody did contact them,
01:07:25
higher up in Sacramento, contacted them and said, there is a suspect in custody.
01:07:31
Then I knew to talk about it and start talking about it on Twitter and everything.
01:07:34
Yes. And that's the one that gave me chills when you talked about that. Because to me, that's so real.
01:07:41
like they wouldn't be leading people on if they didn't think they had their guy.
01:07:45
It seems to me that family is not going to want to wake up and they're not going to want them to wake up in the morning.
01:07:50
They're not going to tell the family. Right. That would be ridiculously cruel. Yeah.
01:07:53
And also one of the things that I was, what I was concerned about is that, well,
01:07:56
if it's, if they have somebody in custody, maybe it's, it's, it's like the majority murder,
01:08:02
which is just too, which there wasn't DNA involved in. And that potentially could not have been the East area rate.
01:08:11
this uh but we all think it was we we consider that as part of the you know in the canon of the
01:08:16
murders but you know once they told uh the family member that i talked to and then i got a confirmation
01:08:24
that a um from another law enforcement source i was like all right this is this is real we can run
01:08:29
with it yes it's so cool and now is that a thing you deal with sometimes where you suspect things
01:08:35
or things start coming down the pike but you have to wait for those certain moments to to actually
01:08:40
run with it like do you know all those oh yeah the ins and outs of that so much you know i don't do
01:08:45
it as much as i used to when i worked in newspapers so when you're working in newspapers you always
01:08:50
had to get it and obviously get two confirmations you can't just run with one confirmation and
01:08:55
that's always a you know you're seeing less and less of that now right yeah you have to do that
01:09:00
and um otherwise you're just running you know you're potentially running something that is not
01:09:06
not real. That's the worst thing you can do as a journalist other than completely making something up
01:09:12
in order to screw me over. Is there a question or a fact you're really looking forward
01:09:18
to having confirmed or answered or anything like that that you're just excited about
01:09:24
or already... There's a lot of them that are the sort of parlor game questions like, was that your homework?
01:09:32
Yes. yeah we've already yeah and uh was that your dog was you know that those kind of things yeah but
01:09:40
i really want to know what other victims there were yeah i'm sure he had other victims particularly
01:09:45
sexual assault victims and that's one of the things that i taught it was just on the phone
01:09:49
with paul haynes uh the kid the researcher for the book yeah and that's what we talked about
01:09:55
and i said you know go you know if you're if you're born tonight you know go and start looking
01:10:01
up the places that he was let's start building a timeline on this guy and start seeing reports of
01:10:07
sexual assaults because they didn't take you know they didn't take uh rape kits all the time in
01:10:11
sexual assaults and this guy might have gone here or there on a summer camp was who knows what he
01:10:16
was doing at the time yeah yeah with all the moving around yeah i think there's definitely
01:10:21
going to be while it looks like he really did stick around in in the golden state really was
01:10:26
the golden state killer he fucking stayed in citrus heights i mean like it's so crazy he stayed in the
01:10:32
right in the center of the of the bulls of the the bullseye of the fucking dartboard yeah but
01:10:38
how cocky of him i mean yeah well he was comfortable yeah he was comfortable there yeah i think that's
01:10:46
one of the main reasons why he would do what he did and why he would only strike certain neighborhoods
01:10:50
because he came he became comfortable in those neighborhoods yeah are there any pieces right now
01:10:55
Like for me, there's a million that you're like, oh, that makes sense. Like any of those little answers that are that little questions that are being answered now that, you know, that he's either a cop or he's local or he stayed there or he's still alive.
01:11:06
The cop thing, I always thought that he had a scanner. Right. Yeah. Because of the way that he knew where the patrols were when they started amping up the patrols and he would attack at other locations.
01:11:17
I thought he had a scanner. I didn't think he had the scanner. I didn't think he had a police scanner because he was an actual policeman.
01:11:23
Yeah. So that's going to be the other shoe to drop in terms of it's really going to be up to local media.
01:11:31
Somebody at the SACB to figure out what he was doing as a police officer. Why? I mean, think about this.
01:11:38
And this is think about how big of a red flag this is. You're a cop. You get arrested for shop.
01:11:45
Yeah. When you get accused and you weren't arrested, you get accused for shoplifting dog repellent and a hammer.
01:11:50
and they say, all right, we're going to do a disciplinary hearing and everything like that, and no police union comes to your aid
01:11:58
and you don't fight it. Yeah. You just said, all right, I'm done. I'm done. You never see that happening.
01:12:04
That should have been a red flag to say, why does he not want people looking into his background?
01:12:10
Do you know what year that happened, the shoplifting and the disciplinary hearing?
01:12:15
It was the 70s. I think it was early 70s. Obviously, probably 79, right? If that was the year he was out of the Auburn movies?
01:12:23
Yeah, I think so. Maybe 70? I'm not sure. What about, I mean, I wonder if that disciplinary thing, they were like, you have all these other points against you.
01:12:33
We'll have someone look into it or you can just quietly resign. And we will. Honestly, I think that could be something there.
01:12:40
And I think it was, you know, they didn't because it was so political. The guys on the ground, the boots on the ground, the real detectives, they would say, oh, my God, this was this was one of ours.
01:12:51
or it was somebody that was like us and they would be upset and want to know it.
01:12:56
Yeah. The political people weren't going to mention it. They didn't really mention it.
01:12:59
You didn't really hear about it, that this was a former cop. Yeah. How many times was he potentially caught while he was doing his patrols,
01:13:09
meaning his patrols, his nighttime patrols, his East Area Rapist patrols, and slashed a badge?
01:13:15
Yes, exactly. You know, was he potentially involved when he was in Visalia and he apparently was a police officer at Exeter,
01:13:23
which is about 10 miles or 11 miles from Visalia. Was he involved in any of the investigations?
01:13:29
I mean, these are all the, this is the other shoe that's going to drop in terms of who could have stopped him when.
01:13:34
Yeah. I'm interested more in what other crimes he might have convicted and getting answers.
01:13:39
He might have committed, excuse me, and getting answers from those. But the other thing is going to be like,
01:13:46
you know, could we have caught him? And, you know, was it a good old boy's never,
01:13:50
Obviously, if he was a cop, he knew cop lingo. He knew names of other people. So if somebody pulled him over or if somebody said, what are you doing in this neighborhood?
01:13:58
He could drop names. He could drop lingo. He could just say, I'm doing this or this.
01:14:01
And I am sure that that happened a couple times. Yeah, absolutely. No way that it did.
01:14:08
You know, he was doing everything he could to survive. And that would have been in one of his one of his tricks.
01:14:13
Totally. One of the things I noticed mentioned in Reddit of like why it was weird in the beginning is that he he's a little older than what was originally thought.
01:14:22
Everyone was calling him a teenager. Do you think that there's probably was there?
01:14:25
Do you think there was a trigger that made him start in his late 20s, early 30s, which is pretty old to start these things?
01:14:30
Or do you think there's stuff that goes way far back that we're going to find out about him that he was?
01:14:35
I think we're going to find out about something. Yeah. But not at that scope. And obviously he didn't know that DNA, so he was leaving his deposits everywhere.
01:14:47
You know, so there's going to be little things here and there, but not at the scope.
01:14:52
Like pre-Vassalia ransacker. Yeah, yeah. Why did you know, obviously, yeah. I mean, we saw, you know, he was doing the ransacking and that was, you know, and he was taking stuff and then he wanted to amp it up.
01:15:03
Yeah. And it was all about, it's all about power for him. First, it was the power of I'm in your house.
01:15:08
second is the power of I'm in your house and I'm taking your stuff third it's the power of I'm in your house and I'm taking your body
01:15:16
and then the fourth one was I'm in your house and I'm gonna kill you yeah fuck also I think it'd be interesting
01:15:22
like if they're finding or they will find things happening in Auburn cold cases cold rape cases stuff where if he was a police person in Auburn
01:15:35
and like was there a woman that came forward that was like a police officer raved to me but i don't
01:15:41
know who it was and they just didn't do anything about it like and obviously it's worst case
01:15:45
scenario but it's that i just keep thinking of that kind of thing where i wonder if he was able
01:15:49
to control himself to save it to go into sacramento or into the east area to do it and then come home
01:15:55
and stay safe that way or if he if it spilled out onto like wherever he lived yeah in auburn
01:16:02
Yeah, I mean, I have a feeling it didn't spill out. I mean, this is just pure conjecture.
01:16:09
But it all is. Yeah, but I think that there might have been certain ways that he might have made somebody feel uncomfortable.
01:16:17
But for the most part, no. I mean, he was just like sort of like an upstanding citizen.
01:16:23
And he did his thing. And everybody thought he was a fairly nice guy. But they didn't know him that well.
01:16:28
you know i mean where are we gonna see you know the fact that they were they commented so often
01:16:35
and listen what are you gonna do when you're watching just people bring out boxes from a guy's
01:16:39
house are those boxes of all the stuff that he stole from those houses yes oh my god like direct
01:16:46
evidence yeah yeah that's a question did he have a trophy room of course he did oh my god of course
01:16:52
he did right i don't know and we're not talking golf trophies over here and bowling fucking trophies
01:16:57
obviously we're we're talking we're talking the trophies he took from his victims jesus the china
01:17:02
cabinet what are you really what are you really taking from there yeah i know you take a lot of
01:17:07
stuff because you're also wondering you want to you know they're gonna they're gonna you know
01:17:12
dot every i and cross every t so you want to make sure that you're going to cover everything and he
01:17:16
could you know who knows he could have been doing something bad now but you know what what were they
01:17:21
taking out of there i think that's a good question well what i always thought was so creepy was the
01:17:25
I mean, and this is just such a mind fuck the way he would take something from one crime scene and a couple months later leave it at another, which means he was holding on to stuff.
01:17:36
There was a place where he was keeping it. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's weird. You know, and there's a lot of weird questions that are going to be out there.
01:17:45
Why did you bring the TV into the backyard? Right. You know, and all these things that that we've that we've gone round and round about.
01:17:54
and wondered about the diamond knots And there evidence I think I saw somebody posted a picture of him in the navy was that yeah yeah that right and those knots i haven been on
01:18:05
social we've just been doing a bunch of stuff here so oh it's getting real fun on social i bet so
01:18:10
you are you guys uh i mean i just can't imagine so last night you guys had this but we were talking
01:18:18
it was four in the morning when we were talking to you right yes i did not realize sorry sorry
01:18:24
Yeah, last night we were in Chicago. We went to Naperville because Gillian Flynn was talking to myself, Patton, and Paul about the book.
01:18:36
So cool. Gillian is from here, and she's the woman that wrote Girl on the Train and Gone Girl and all that stuff.
01:18:44
And then there was also kind of close to where she grew up, Michelle did. So Michelle's family was there.
01:18:52
we had a great talk about the case we said you know people like you really think it's going to
01:18:56
be solved and we said yeah this is going to be solved i have no doubt this is going to be solved
01:19:01
because of the dna you know bottom line is i don't think zodiac potentially could be solved i wouldn't
01:19:08
say that i would put money on it but if we have dna of somebody that's not you know you can't fake
01:19:12
that so then we uh we were all just pretty wiped we we went home uh back to chicago and stayed in
01:19:21
the hotel and for some reason I woke up to a text you know like two in the morning or something or
01:19:27
one in the morning and I just started from there I mean can you work was it like a stomach drop
01:19:33
was it an out loud gasp was it like did you just get cold what was that what was your reaction
01:19:39
in that moment well the first reaction was all right there's a press conference all right well
01:19:45
what's that going to be about? You know, you know, yeah. You know, it's always going to be,
01:19:51
is this real or not? And one of the things that I keep telling people is that once I confirmed it,
01:19:58
so my, my, my first thing was about confirming it. And that's just my journalism instincts.
01:20:03
I want to confirm this thing. After I confirmed it. And then I'm like, all right,
01:20:07
I confirmed it. And I put out some tweets and I told everybody and I wasn't going to tell Pat
01:20:13
yet because pat was like super tired last night so i was like all right i'm not gonna wake the
01:20:16
little guy up but i was like i'm gonna grab him right at like five right so uh but then i
01:20:24
because we had a very early flight so i was sitting there all alone in this you know bed
01:20:30
i've never been in before and i'm just i started thinking and questioning my consciousness of
01:20:35
whether i was dreaming or not i was really wondering whether this was a dream and it was
01:20:40
like wait I was at a you know it was weird I had the weirdest dream last night I was in Chicago
01:20:45
it was in the suburbs and then Gillian Flynn was there we didn't eat dinner but they gave us
01:20:52
brownies and I ate the brownie on the way home and I was like going through all this stuff it's
01:20:57
like well what's this and then I got a call that you know a text message that there's a press
01:21:01
conference and I was wondering whether this was really a dream or not and then we were both doing
01:21:06
it me and patten when we were sitting at the airport waiting for the plane at the board and we were both saying the same thing it's like if we wake up
01:21:13
and we're back in the hotel yeah this is gonna be here this is gonna be really what was in those brownies yeah exactly someone does i don't think there was
01:21:21
anything i think it was actually fudge it was brownies so it's just such a fast it just feels like
01:21:29
this you guys being on the book tour like it's so it's such a fast turnaround for the way this kind of like it built and I feel like everyone was prepared for this to go on for
01:21:39
so much longer yeah no there was no build to this the build was 12 hours you know yes that's one of
01:21:48
the reasons when we were talking about it I was trying to think of what Michelle would feel
01:21:51
and you know there would she would be feeling what like a come down right about now yeah where
01:21:57
you know and we had talked about that is what are you going to do with your you know when you finally
01:22:03
catch the guy this was your first you'd never forget your first this was your obsession yeah
01:22:07
if if you are able to get answered to that what are you going to do next and and i wanted that
01:22:13
to happen because i wanted her to work on other cases with her yeah and i constantly have in my
01:22:18
own investigations i constantly have 15 to 20 going at the same time because i'm doing street
01:22:25
crimes i'm doing ones that you know are a little bit more easier to solve and they're not they're
01:22:31
not sort of romanticized as much as as somebody like this is yeah but it uh you know i think she
01:22:38
would have that sort of come down just kind of you know sit alone in a room and say like oh what
01:22:42
you know what happens now i think there would definitely be things like she would be like god
01:22:46
damn it he was the vasalia ransacker yeah yeah yeah she went back and forth on that one and so
01:22:52
did paul and so died because you know he had that stocky body you know they they would say that he
01:22:57
had that cherubic face yeah so that he obviously i'm really interested to see what his pictures
01:23:02
look like during the ransacker phase then versus the ear phase because i think he probably lost
01:23:07
some weight because they kept on talking about how he had this moon face this baby fit right
01:23:12
yeah and and then he ended up you know with face that was very kind of lean or at least you know
01:23:18
what people could see of it when we were talking about the year yeah it's a real it's a different
01:23:23
Because there's one picture of him as a cop with a mustache that looks like it's from the late 70s.
01:23:29
And he looks so different than that Navy picture or any of those younger pictures.
01:23:35
Like, he does not have that stuff on his face. He doesn't have the width to his face.
01:23:41
He looks very lanky. But it looks like one of the older sketches with a mustache.
01:23:46
Yes, dude. Yeah, no, I think that's probably what happened. And obviously he grew the mustache after a while.
01:23:52
Maybe he grew it to kind of hide himself. Yeah. But I think he lost some weight What he was doing was strenuous too You know I mean he was doing parkour Exactly You got to be in shape for that
01:24:06
To see, to see what he, you know, turned into, you know, where you can let yourself go, you know,
01:24:14
and the cops were sort of like waiting outside for him saying, are this guy going to move or what? Because, you know,
01:24:19
they were trying to collect, collect something from him. And obviously he wasn't moved.
01:24:23
so crazy crazy you know what I keep picturing like when they were talking at the at the press
01:24:29
conference and I understand like the DA Amory was kept saying like this is the detective's work and
01:24:34
and whatever but what I like to picture is like Michelle was just this bossy lady that kept
01:24:40
showing up and being like yeah but I need to write about this so could you guys get it together
01:24:44
like she just kept going to places and being like I need you to prioritize this we need to
01:24:50
this needs to matter more to people and like so yes the the credit fully goes to those detectives
01:24:56
because they were always there and they had to work on it and whatever but there is that like
01:25:01
we you know i don't know i feel like we all know the credit goes to like the fucking mouthy broad
01:25:07
that gets in there and goes you guys seriously like do something about this no and the fact that
01:25:13
they called him the golden state killer which they wouldn't have called him if not for michelle
01:25:16
Right. That's how they referred to him as. And then the you know that they're saying, oh, you know, the book didn't have anything to do with it.
01:25:24
Yeah. The book just came out. Right. The article, though, a long time ago. And the article got everybody buzzing in in circles and got people like you guys interested in it.
01:25:37
And it became part of the lore of people would bring up, you know, when people were mentioning certain serial killers, they would bring up this guy.
01:25:47
And nobody ever talked about this guy before. You know, this guy had one Unsolved Mysteries episode.
01:25:52
Yeah. And, you know, it really was very, very low on anybody's radar until she came along and really, really boosted it.
01:26:00
It's not about the book. It really was about her doing, you know, you know, constantly being on, you know, writing about it or TV shows or blogging and then the article coming out and then all these people coming, you know, like her selling her life rights because they thought it was so interesting and all that jazz.
01:26:17
Yeah. You know, that's, you know, does the task force happen without her putting that case back into the spotlight?
01:26:24
you know and does she and does she have the the kind of uh like engine to go forward if it wasn't
01:26:31
for also all those other data miners online that were super dedicated and doing the same thing she
01:26:38
was doing just not actually going anywhere but like the people that like when we were talking
01:26:43
about paul looking through every single or i think it's in the book actually it's you know
01:26:47
when he was the one that had already looked through every yearbook or he'd already there's
01:26:51
There's just been people who have truly been dedicating themselves to the minutia of this case, like a police person would, except for they haven't been paid.
01:26:59
They've just been doing it out of the passion. And the people who the victims are willing to speak to, like someone who's super empathetic and wonderful like Michelle, because they've been waiting so long for the detectives to give them an answer.
01:27:14
And they don't want to wait any longer. or they speak with Michelle and that kind of reinvigorates them into pushing
01:27:20
the detectives to keep looking into the cases. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And one of the things that I really hope is that everybody that was working
01:27:27
on this case that were data mining and everything, they go find some other ones,
01:27:31
you know, go use those skills. This was, this was your training wheels. And this was one of your first ones.
01:27:37
Now go and solve one of the other 200,000 unsolved murders that are out there. Yeah.
01:27:42
That's one thing I'm working on writing a book right now. And it's about the cases that I've been able to solve as working as a consulting detective, consulting digital detective, whatever you want to call me.
01:27:53
But the, you know, the fact that we are entering an age where we're going to have the most educated retirees we have ever seen in the baby boomers.
01:28:05
These are people that can just that that want to help. And there's also millennials that want to help.
01:28:11
There's also baby boomers that want to help. and what i'm doing is i'm creating sort of a system and going to do a pilot program somewhere
01:28:19
where some police department wants to do it well we'll just open it up you know screen people make
01:28:24
sure they're good yep not pay them they'll have their own computers and they'll just go in and be
01:28:30
able to do this stuff and yes there is a chain of command yes there is they will only get you so far
01:28:35
and then the police have to take over but when you're looking for a needle in a haystack you
01:28:40
You can get them to that needle and then you just have to prove that that needle is guilty.
01:28:44
Yes, dude. These murders are just piling up. Yeah. There's 5,000 new unsolved murders every year and they're just piling on top of each other.
01:28:51
You might hear about, oh, this murder. Okay, we just cleared 12 from a few different years.
01:28:58
There's so many that are out there. And there are a lot of smart people now that want to help that we should be able to work with them and have law enforcement.
01:29:07
So that's one of the big projects that I'm working on right now. That's amazing, Billy.
01:29:10
Incredible. That's such a good idea. Sign us the fuck up. We're signing Steven up right now.
01:29:15
I'm really bad at research, but I have a lot of passion, and I'm fun to drink coffee with.
01:29:22
That's all right. You guys just bring the coffee and wine, and everybody's got to play their part.
01:29:27
Yeah, exactly. Maybe we do it like Sunday nights. It's not a game night. It's just prime solving night.
01:29:31
Sure. That we all do. It's kind of similar to that. I mean, the thing that I'm talking about is a little bit more serious than that.
01:29:37
But yeah, I mean, you're going to see a lot of that. I think people want to want to get involved and they're not going to be the sexiest cases.
01:29:44
You know, they're going to be cases that, you know, we you know, this one in particular was so interesting just because there are so many clues.
01:29:52
There was almost too many clues. Yeah. And it really became like something that could have been a really intricate board game or choose your own adventure or something Yeah I think it also
01:30:06
Go ahead. Oh, just that there's a beautiful aspect to it of like we a lot of times talk about the problems in the police, police not talking to each other.
01:30:17
You know, all that kind of the Zodiac stuff that happened. Yeah, when they don't want to share information.
01:30:22
But we're it's like real time. We're watching as the DNA evidence like develops as all these different new technologies develop.
01:30:29
There's also the consciousness of of detectives and these people who are starting to understand how they have to change and they're doing it.
01:30:39
I think there's part of that that's so hopeful and beautiful, you know, like even just in in that the Golden State special that was on ID where they're kind of talking about that changing their approach so that these things can get solved.
01:30:54
It's a matter of numbers. And it's not like we're getting a bunch of a bunch more detectives.
01:31:00
So if you're adding 5000 murders every year that are unsolved, you're not adding 5000 new detectives.
01:31:06
And what happens with these detectives is that they might be working on a cold case.
01:31:10
They might be working on a case that happened two weeks ago. Then they catch another murder, meaning they have another murder that they need to go solve.
01:31:19
And that other one has to take a back seat. And, you know, the idea of the professional detective has only been around for like 150 years.
01:31:29
Before, it was, you know, different people that were actually solving these murders.
01:31:34
and they weren't necessarily professional detectives. Went to Pinkertons? Well, no, even before that.
01:31:41
It was even before that there were police, real police squads that were out there.
01:31:49
The police were created not to solve crimes. They were really created to keep the peace
01:31:53
and stop riots and stuff like that. Wow. So I think that you're going to see something
01:31:58
along those lines in some place, and it's going to be like community policing, but it's not going to be, you know, walking the streets and doing guardian angel type stuff.
01:32:08
It's going to be a little bit more of the data mining variety and using the skill that you have in your in your neck of the woods.
01:32:16
It's so cool. Thank you so much for calling us, Billy. It is amazing to talk to you on a day like this.
01:32:21
Yeah, you're welcome, guys. And hello to all the murderinos out there. Thank you. Keep in touch, please.
01:32:28
so much i mean if there was one thing that you i mean you guys have such a powerful platform
01:32:33
uh to talk to people and you guys are one of the biggest things that are going on at true crime
01:32:38
right now and it's great to see you guys i don't know if you guys know this or not but i went to
01:32:42
see you at upright citizens brigade once and there was like 30 people there 40 people there oh was
01:32:47
that the cracked podcast with jack o'brien no no no it was like you guys were just there i think
01:32:52
Margaret Cho was there. Oh, that was, um, Jamie Lee. Yeah. Oh, awesome. Wait, did we meet? We met
01:32:59
beforehand at the restaurant though, right? You came and said hi. Yes, that's right. Yeah. So,
01:33:06
uh, um, yeah, you know, I know that, you know, there's a lot of people that are out there that
01:33:10
just are learning a lot from your, from the stuff that you're talking about. They can look into cases.
01:33:16
What I say is like, look into that one hometown case that you've got and just, uh, and if you are,
01:33:22
happen to be a victim or a family of a victim, you know, squeaky wheel gets the grease.
01:33:27
That's certainly one of the things that happened here. If you see what Debbie Domingo was doing, you know,
01:33:31
she was constantly calling and trying to get information. And if you've got a crime that happened, a violent crime that happened,
01:33:38
just keep calling the police. Don't lose hope. Awesome. Amazing. Thank you so much, Billy.
01:33:43
Okay. We'll talk to you soon. Talk to you soon. Bye. Hey, guys. That was incredible.
01:33:50
That was rad. What a get. That felt like a real news situation. I have to say, maybe we can close it up, but I'm honored that we get to be a voice in the background of this.
01:34:04
And Michelle McNamara, we've been such a fan of hers, a fangirl of a fangirl crime.
01:34:13
And I'm just honored that we get to even talk about this. What a, yeah, what a magical thing that in real time, not, it's not like 20 years from now where we get back together to talk about that they finally found the guy or they finally figured out who it is.
01:34:29
It's just like, this is shocking. It's thrilling. And yeah, kudos to fucking Michelle McNamara and her, it like, people keep using the phrase dogged persistence.
01:34:42
But I think there's something it's it's like this righteousness and this like kind of call for justice that I think we all feel.
01:34:52
And I think most people are good in that way where they don't want other people to suffer like this.
01:34:58
Yeah. And that's what's cool. It's like all those people at that press conference, everybody that's talking about it.
01:35:04
Everybody is just like no more of this shit. No more pretending right. Doesn't matter.
01:35:09
no more pretending that you that you know all the all these weird old things are really going by the
01:35:15
wayside these old attitudes all that kind of stuff and it's like building a new fucking tomorrow as
01:35:22
corny as that sounds no i agree and um it is this what was i gonna say oh it's gonna be great
01:35:27
do you want me to say really quickly i was i was when billy called i was just trying to say
01:35:32
people in sacramento now who are loving sacramento and want to defend sacramento you don't have to
01:35:38
because I get towns change, whatever, but I also get to have my opinion about this,
01:35:43
the very short amount of time that I suffered greatly in that town. Every day I was suffering.
01:35:49
I was a goth in the summer. Yeah. It sucked shit and I couldn't go anywhere and be happy.
01:35:55
We're gonna, we're, it doesn't mean anything about you or your family or your fucking grandparents.
01:35:59
And we weren't even, We weren't even planning, our tour agent wasn't even planning on sending us to Sacramento,
01:36:05
and we insisted because it's become this running joke. Well, because Sacramento Marinos are like showing up, and they're like, come here, we
01:36:12
love it, we love you, so we love that. It's been so fun, but you cannot change my mind about 90s Sacramento.
01:36:22
I think they love it. Oh, I know what I wanted to say. Yes. And I love what I love about Reddit, about what about this press conference about I'm what I'm sure Michelle would say is that no one is saying I knew it.
01:36:36
I took credit for this. It's because I said this. I said that it's this it's it's wanted to be solved by so many people.
01:36:43
And that's so much bigger than anyone's ego. They want it to be solved for the victims and for the victims, families and friends and to put an end to this fucking monster and bring them to justice.
01:36:54
Yeah. And so I love that this fight is not for credit or being the one who solves it It about justice And I know Michelle would be saying something to us along the lines of no no no it has nothing to do with my you know she would be demurring
01:37:12
and she would be rightfully so giving a huge amount of credit to the detectives who have
01:37:16
worked on this for years and years and, you know, and wanted just as much to solve this passionately
01:37:23
as we did. 100%. And the way that sheriff was saying at the beginning, I wrote his name down,
01:37:28
Scott Jones, my party friend, Scott Jones, that he was saying in the beginning, he when
01:37:33
he became the sheriff, the person who was the sheriff before him was like, this case
01:37:38
is huge and important and you have to work on it. So there are all those people that over the years when they were just trying to go place
01:37:45
to place with no technology, with everything was writing, writing everything up by hand
01:37:50
and putting it into a file. I saw something that was like one page of files from back then takes, you know, three weeks for us to like translate.
01:38:00
That's so wrong. But you know what I mean? To put into a computer? To put into a computer Like one file takes We have to Yeah It just takes forever to make it Maybe it one Cut that out What I don know It was great
01:38:15
But basically it takes fucking forever and it's tons of work. It was all paperwork back then.
01:38:19
It's all paperwork. And those people suffered, the police who worked on it suffered too.
01:38:26
Yeah. Like they, they're the ones that had to go and, and suffer by not catching him and by meeting more victims.
01:38:32
And there's so much. It just is so incredible that there gets to be at least it's not closure, but it is this like it's next steps.
01:38:42
It's real next step. Finally. It's fucking finally. Fuck, guys. Thanks for listening.
01:38:49
Let us know what you think. Yeah. This is really cool. Yeah. I'm thrilled. Me too.
01:38:54
All right. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
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