00:00:00
This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
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Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. When a charming neurosurgeon rode into Frontier Town
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selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room
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and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
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This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
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or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. Sun's out, so dads are too.
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Valid through 624. While supplies last, selection varies by location. And begin.
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Hello and welcome. This is my favorite murder. This is the true crime podcast where we get real serious.
00:01:59
And then there's a weird fart sound in the background. That was like a, could you hear that?
00:02:04
Yeah. Oh, um, it was probably plumbing. That really threw me off my game. It was better start.
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You know, my game, how tight my game is. Your pod game. My podcast podcast game is usually real tight.
00:02:17
Now, when you train to record, you use a small rubber ball just for dexterity and just like to throw against the wall.
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I throw against the wall and I catch it. And like you can tell there's a montage usually where it's like my brain's getting bigger.
00:02:30
The podcast part of my brain is growing. And what song is playing during that montage, would you say?
00:02:35
Dude, I have a tiger. I have a tiger all day, every day. That's all that goes to my brain.
00:02:41
It's not the other hit song by that same band. my brain is swelling and it's causing a cranial pressure no it's um it's just clowns laughing
00:02:50
that song clowns laughing it's just the sound of multiple clowns laughing it's pretty soothing
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is it the kind of clown laughter where they have a there's a raspy wheeze where you can tell that
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they are also a hobo on a train yeah it's like that kind of clown that's got a cigar that looks
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like it just blew up you know like had a trick blow upy thing in it could like crusty the clown
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Exactly. Do you know that somebody mentioned, somebody cited this and actually said, and maybe they were just being sarcastic, but you know how we named one of our episodes like breakfast wine or morning wine?
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Yeah, breakfast wine, I think. It's from Arrested Development. Oh, really? Yeah, it's something that the mom says, which I'm sure if I said it, I stole it from that.
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Like, that's all I do. No, I think I've had breakfast wine before. Okay. It's one of those phrases that are in the lexicon.
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And the vernacular? And the vernacular. All right. Well, I just think it's funny that people would be giving us credit where it's like, you know, this show was from eight years ago, right?
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No, we said it first, probably. Same thing with Murderino. That's from The Simpsons, it turns out.
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That's how I thought of it. Just now. We didn't know that, but now we know. Now we know.
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Now that somebody tried to get the patent on it and everyone went, what the fuck are you doing?
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So that went away quick because I think some weird person in Canada, not to say Canadians are weird, but you know, you're weird.
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Tried to fucking trademark the word murderino. Yeah. And all these fucking people were like, fuck you.
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And then they were sending cease and desist letters to people on Etsy who are making fun.
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Like if you and I haven't done it. Yeah. That person, whoever the fuck you are. Yeah.
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Some third party where it's like, sorry, what? Where? How are you involved in any of this nonsense?
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nonsense. And then they responded, we're just trying to make sure that it's not abused in any
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way. We're trying to keep it safe. Not your job. Not your business. Back off. Yeah. And also,
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no, you're not. Also, don't lie. You tried to make a greedy move. You stand by it and be like,
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oh, well, I tried to make a greedy move. Here's the thing. I'm sending a cease and desist to that
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person being a fucking cunt. To cease and desist being a fucking cunt. Let's just start
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cease and desisting people. I'm going to send a cease and desist to Arrested Development
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for stealing our ideas eight years ago. Okay. And putting them on TV. Yeah. Before we even met.
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Take that. Take that. I was working at, let's see, eight years ago. Podcasts didn't exist.
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At Arrested Development? No. Where were you working in 2010? 2010, I believe. That's the year I decided to up
00:05:33
and get a divorce and move to New York. I was like, Should I change my fall look?
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You're straight up, what's her face? Throwing her hat in the air. Mary Tyler Moore?
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Yes. All I had to do was make the gesture and you knew what I was talking about.
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Mary Tyler Moore, but the wrong city and she's never married. But you did throw a hat in the air, yes or no?
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I threw a hat at people. I not a hat person but I will use one as a weapon No a cloche a nice cloche What a cloche is the 1920s like little um they like kind of flare out the end they look like german helmets oh yeah a nice little
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have you seen my fucking humongous face i have you seen my i can't fit into like hats into normal
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lady size hat too small yeah i have my giant head no huge head you have a huge head yeah yeah you do
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it does not look like it at all it's a secret huge head really you're keeping a great secret
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over there. Me, I'm all over the map with this. I'm telling everybody with my huge head how huge
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my head is. Couldn't be bigger. There's nothing worse than people are like, this is sending me
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into a spiral of thinking about having to get ready. Have you ever had to get ready at a friend's
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house? When you were like, say you guys went to the beach all day. Then you make a decision at
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six o'clock, we're going to go dance. Can I borrow a dress or something? Right. Great. They give you
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the ugliest dress they have. Hey, how about this? Yeah. It's been laying in the bottom of my closet.
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How about this? Because I know you and I know you're never going to return this to me.
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So let me give you something I don't care. I don't care about it. Yeah. And you won't look better than me.
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And you won't look better than me. And I don't actually care about your feelings or well-being.
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So just put this fucking on and shut up. I cannot tell you how many times where I'm like,
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well, I simply won't go to the second location with you then. That's from 30 Rock.
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Yes. Sight your... Sight your... Always sight. footnote footnote three yes uh yeah like and just that idea of hats or it made me think of
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one time my friend i was like can do you have sunglasses i was so hung over in my friend's car
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she opens up her glove compartment and pulls out no joke they were checkerboard sunglasses
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but they were also big rounded cat eyes so i look like that guitarist from cheap tricks i looked like
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can i not be the one i don't like attention like it's like raising your hand and being like i'm
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hung over to everyone who walks by. I'm hung over and I might be able to sell you ecstasy if you ask me
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with the right code word. That'd be nice. Alright. Luckily we got that off our chest. I'm glad we talked about that.
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You were saying you haven't watched any true crime shit. No. I've been deep into things like
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Howard's End, which if you haven't seen it and you like a period piece, they made it for stars, I believe.
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And it was with the best Mr. Darcy, Matthew McFadden, and a woman who you've seen in a million things,
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but I don't know her name, sorry. And it was so good. It was so brilliantly done.
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It's better than the movie, which was with Anthony Hopkins and Emma Thompson. Well, I can't believe you haven't seen this
00:08:32
because I think I slipped into your brain and watched this show on Netflix, kind of new,
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called Safe. It's a fucking British procedural. Oh! This girl goes missing. It's based on a book by Harlan Coben,
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who I guess is like a mystery writer. Okay. I think I've heard that. It's all British people.
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Coben with a B or an H? Cohen. C-O-B-E-N. Oh, okay. Okay. Main dude. It's the dad.
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He's the guy. There's some shady shit going on. What's going on? It's fucking Michael C. Hall with the hardest British accent you've ever fucking heard.
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No, Dexter? Yeah. What? Yeah. Oh, I have to. It's so distracting, but it's also like distracting because it's so good, but it's clearly a good
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fake British accent. Oh, so he's not originally British? No, no. It doesn't seem to be, but I would love that as a reveal.
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No. Like, I've been British this whole time. No, because I went to his house once.
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I've been to his house. Why? My friend's friend was having a party there, and he was very nice and not British.
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Okay. All right. Although, what if at the party he was putting on an American accent?
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Because he's like, people want me to do my Dexter thing when I'm at the party. I'm studying for a role, usually.
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Oh, that wasn't bad, right? No, it was really good. Everything we do is good. I'm really good at karaoke.
00:09:48
It turns out. Also, I have a half an hour left of Killing Eve, and I'm really excited about it.
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I just started Killing Eve. Oh, you did? It's good, right? I loved it. I mean, love it.
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Yeah. Those two ladies, Sandra Oh and the woman. God, she's good. She's got a foreign name.
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Therefore, we don't have to remember it. I don't even think that's true. Oh, shit.
00:10:08
But she's great. No, that's a good show. There's also lots of great British actors in that show.
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Yeah, the dude who plays the bill. Yeah. The boss or the asshole boss? The cool boss.
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I love that guy. Yeah. He's from... I knew you'd know him. I'm going to have to think about that for a little while.
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But anyway, that's a delightful show. Yeah, it's really good. And then did you see somebody tweeted at us that they went to the screening?
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Yes! They wore a Murderino shirt, and then a bunch of people yelled at them, and they had like a moment.
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I love it. It's very cool. I hope Sandra Oh heard that and knows that we think she's rad.
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We love you, Sandra Oh. cool she plays like this bumbling detective yes i love it but like it made me think of because i
00:10:50
don't watch gray's anatomy i've watched it a little bit wait you're not obsessed with gray's
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anatomy i know i'm not a gray's craze i don't have an anatomar and anadmire there it is i'm
00:11:02
gonna trademark that uh in the net anadmire in canada um when she was in the movie touch my toe
00:11:10
when she was in sideways which i just re-watched once again because it's so good she is so sexy in
00:11:18
that movie just like messy hair and then in um in this one killing zoe killing eve that's a
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that's a movie okay it is yeah thank god with um why am i even pretending to be like to know who's
00:11:32
in anything killing zoe is a different one it's with the guy who was in the mask eric stoltz and
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And then Julie Delphi. Whoa. Only because I had a big crush on her. Julie Delphi?
00:11:44
Yeah. Okay. Go on. Anyway. Well, no, no. What I was going to say is she's the different.
00:11:52
When I first started watching Killing Eve all I could think of was I can believe it the same person who was in Sideways being the sexy girl that has the affair Yeah Because she is doing that kind of like meh dumpy thing and it so funny
00:12:07
She's good. She's great. I want to, can I do a quick fucking piece of business? Would you?
00:12:13
It's not that boring. Give this podcast some fucking structure. I will not. so we have a fan cult now a fan club that you if you go on my favorite murder.com you can join it
00:12:25
you get a free t-shirt a fan cult t-shirt and an animal pin and then we also do like we're going to
00:12:32
post videos we're going to post old uh live shows that we've never posted before oh yeah i think
00:12:37
that's a big deal actually right we don't even mention that i think we should start doing this
00:12:40
week yeah the fan cult right now it's like you know you pay money and then you get to be on a
00:12:45
forum nobody else gets to be on and we that's when we are like posting tour videos and stuff
00:12:49
like that when we could but we are going to start releasing old live shows that we've never released
00:12:55
before on the fan cult yeah so if you are one of those people that likes to tweet at us once a
00:13:00
month for three years straight about how you want your episode of the show that you're at to be
00:13:05
posted well guess what join that fan cult because then that's how you're going to be able to listen
00:13:10
And actually, we should start a chat room. Is that still a thing? I don't want to.
00:13:15
In the forum on the fan cult and say which ones you want to see that are from which live shows.
00:13:20
Oh, like start a thread. Yeah, because I don't remember what any of them were like.
00:13:24
But okay, so now people are posting. Somehow people just started posting photos of their pets in the fan club t-shirt that they get for free.
00:13:32
And it's the best. Of course. Of course. I love it. I made Steven put a slideshow up on Instagram.
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And so I want everyone to now hashtag fan cult pets when you put your pet in there.
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And we'll make slideshows like once a week of the pets with the t-shirts because it's hilarious.
00:13:50
And then there was someone who posted a fucking goat in the t-shirt today. And it just made my day.
00:13:57
That's the funniest thing because lately, the couple times I've posted, I took the dumbest picture in the world of Georgia.
00:14:03
and then I had to post it because she looked so stupid because I was weirdly over her
00:14:07
so her eyes were crossed but it looked like she was smiling and she has these tiny little
00:14:11
teeth anyway every time I post a picture of either of my dogs people respond with pictures of their dogs
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and it is the cutest most fun thing because then it's just like it's as we're all pretending dogs are talking to each other
00:14:23
I love it normally I don't go for stuff like that George says hi to so and so so and so says hi
00:14:28
I think in this day and age where everything around us is an onslaught of horror you need like a picture of a dog in a shirt amen
00:14:37
thank you amen hashtag fan cult pets and someday i'll put marty in his fucking fan culture my dad
00:14:47
marty who joined the fan cult on his own accord god bless him even though i would have given it
00:14:52
to him for free i'm not a fucking cheapskate i would have given i would have given you 20 bucks
00:14:56
to go in half on Marty's membership. I have to say that people have mentioned this,
00:15:01
but I think it's a pretty good deal. Yeah. 40 bucks for one full year. Oh, it's only for a year.
00:15:08
Yeah, that makes more sense. Because if you work it out like one of the great accountants of the world,
00:15:17
try not to shit on accountants anymore. That's kind of you. That works out to you paying
00:15:22
about a quarter an episode. one 25 cent piece for an episode of this podcast and you get a t-shirt and an enamel pin and you get to talk
00:15:31
to Marty and you get to fucking talk to people and you get to be there on the inside line when we start
00:15:35
doing actual shit that people care about and when we do like why are we trying to listen do or don't there's no
00:15:41
try yeah and we wrote that George Lucas not you that's mine do or don't there's no try
00:15:51
you know at the end of the day uh may the first be with you we're not here to make friends the bachelor i'm till for the ship
00:15:59
all right okay so last episode was a live one from dublin the episode before that was our famous
00:16:05
paul holes episode that karen is still recovering from dude i tried to re-listen i mean to listen
00:16:12
to the paul holes episode because i was like this will be fun the first time like i i do commend
00:16:19
myself for a not crying yeah be not be not leaving I actually really really wanted to leave
00:16:26
when he first was in the room you know there was that back door yeah I was like I could here's what
00:16:32
I could do I could hold up my valet ticket like there's something wrong with my car and walk out
00:16:37
that door and there's nothing they can do like you would just have to keep on recording next time I
00:16:41
see you I know but I just I'll deal with that later oh but it was a pan it was fight or flight
00:16:46
oh my god and i really it was that thing where i was like i can't do it you did great this you did
00:16:50
great i know you hate surprises to yourself yes that was tough but also trying to form a sentence
00:16:57
where you're presenting your fucking dumb theory to a person who worked on the case i know i know
00:17:05
i felt really stupid i felt so stupid but yeah i guess that's just how it's gonna be yeah there
00:17:11
I'm just saying there was like... He was very patient with us, considering. He's the best person on the planet.
00:17:17
Everyone you need to know, he's not just like that when he's being recorded or whatever.
00:17:24
He is like that in person. He deserves all the accolades he gets. He was such a fucking nice person.
00:17:31
I have never been friends with a cop before. Right. And he's the first one. It was so nice.
00:17:37
You know, that's the thing is, I do know cops. Yeah, you do. of people in my family and whatever my panic i think in that moment of he's actually in this
00:17:46
building was i didn't want him to come through that door and be what i thought a cop would act
00:17:53
like which is a swaggering condescending that true he a science but i had that fear of like you know as I said a million times working in television you learn very quickly You do not want to meet your heroes
00:18:06
You do not, that person that you're like, that person's great because they're on Grey's Anatomy.
00:18:10
No, fuck, no. You're going to have the worst experience and you're going to be heartbroken.
00:18:14
So that was part of my like, uh-oh, like here, now if this guy's corny or lame, that's just how it's going to be. I have this like self-esteem issue where I don't think
00:18:24
professional people want to talk to me because i'm not i fucking dropped out of community college
00:18:29
dropped out of community college they could tell from your yeah who were you it's the thing of like
00:18:33
when you go to a party and like they're your friends and then there's some girl there and
00:18:36
is like so where so what college did you go to right when someone asked me that question i want
00:18:40
to get mean but i know it's only because i'm really self-conscious of it but also like why
00:18:45
are you asking me that i'm 30 fucking seven years old yeah well also some people that's all they have
00:18:50
i don't know what my point was but he was really i felt very comfortable around him there's a lot
00:18:54
there was a lot of reason to be insecure a lot a lot of reasons to be insecure and you he was his
00:19:00
whole personal personality and demeanor was exactly the kind of thing that made you go he'll want to
00:19:07
hear my theory about why uh he was a he looked one way in visalia yeah like he made us feel like he
00:19:14
did want to hear that stupid bullshit totally it's very exciting he's a lovely person and
00:19:19
I have to say, I don't know why we didn't take pictures or we should have taken video coming in.
00:19:26
Something scared and panic. Yeah, we were panicking. But but I was going to say we had a lovely conversation after we stopped recording, too.
00:19:34
Because I was like waiting for him to just leave. Yeah. And then make an excuse. Yeah. It should be like, girls, you're welcome. Goodbye.
00:19:41
but here's the best part i don't think did we say this um the last i guess on the mini-sode or
00:19:47
something but he told us afterwards because we assumed he was just in town yeah he traveled
00:19:54
down from northern california specifically to be on the podcast um but no that was magical time
00:19:59
that you know we we're very lucky don't here's my thing karen i say to myself don't re-listen
00:20:05
to the episode have it as a nice memory in your mind and walk away clean knowing that you didn't
00:20:10
wet your pants or do anything you didn't run you need to give it an italian style kiss and then
00:20:16
walk away walk away on to the next kiss into the face of it yeah on to the next investigator who
00:20:22
sells a massive cold case speaking of should we do an episode perfectly white teeth he must not
00:20:30
drink coffee which i can't how do you get through life his teeth are perfectly white i know okay
00:20:37
maybe they pass out teeth whiteners on first class southwest now you get your own
00:20:46
cress white strips at the beginning of the trip and then you take them off the runway at the end I mean I gotta say
00:20:51
we're not being paid by them but those motherfuckers work cress white strips yeah
00:20:55
I wish I mean clearly I don't know have you ever used one look at my fucking rotten teeth no
00:21:01
I had my teeth professionally whitened once and I was like well now they're whitened but they're now they're just still all short irish teeth what's the point
00:21:10
that's like don't wash the curtains on the front of your shitty house yes wash the curtains on the
00:21:17
front of your shitty house i'm getting the curtains fully replaced with a cassette i'm
00:21:21
gonna get teeth so big and white in hollywood that they're gonna look like cartoon teeth
00:21:25
that are just one strip and that have no individual teeth it's just gonna look like
00:21:30
i stuck in one big thing of you're gonna replace the whole fucking house you're gonna demolish the
00:21:35
house and you're going to build a fucking mcmansion i'm in its place a tacky it's gonna be a fucking
00:21:40
houseboat house but with teeth made of teeth that's good what houseboat house is truck boat
00:21:46
truck that you stole from squid billies just want to give credit where credit is due let's please
00:21:51
give credit all i'll do okay do you want to go first or do you want me to go first whatever you
00:21:56
want i'll do it how's your what's yours weird mine's dark okay is yours solved yes okay i'm
00:22:05
gonna go first then okay is that okay yeah because then we'll have a good ending yeah because mine
00:22:10
isn't do you mind if i get a cup of coffee no i thought you were gonna say do you mind if i guess
00:22:16
what it is do you mind what if i guess what the solution to your crime this is ashley i from the
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Code FLOW15. All right. All right. We're back. We're back with coffee. You're coffeed.
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I'm just, uh, it's less for the caffeine and more just to brown my teeth down a tiny bit more.
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You just got to get that perfect mocha. I'm tanning my teeth. Tanning my teeth. All right.
00:25:10
Okay. Yeah. Listen. Look. It's finally fucking time to look and listen. Okay. To Mr. Cruel.
00:25:18
Oh, fuck. I know. Good. Good one. I know, right? It hit me. Yeah, I've been starting it forever. And then just with this whole Golden State Killer thing, which I'm sure everyone is sick of hearing us talk about.
00:25:30
Who cares? Fuck them. I'll never stop talking about it. I'll never stop. But wait, are you starting with this? Because the Mr. Cruel, the first piece of news, the day of the arrest or the day before the arrest?
00:25:46
The day that it was announced that the Golden State Killer, a suspect, had been apprehended.
00:25:52
So it wasn't even like, yeah. Go ahead. Maybe it was in your story. Because I have Golden State Killer and Erons on my Google Alerts.
00:26:03
So I get those news things whenever they come out. Cool. And it was just a news piece that said, is the Golden State Killer Mr. Cruel?
00:26:11
And I was like, that's weird. Just out of the blue. Somebody's just like asking that question.
00:26:15
And then it was like several hours later where they're like, they have a DNA. Right.
00:26:19
So, but also they were like Golden State Killer linked to Mr. Cruel, which was really exciting.
00:26:25
The thought of killing like two birds, I guess that's a bad way of saying it. Like fucking catching these two elusive, you know, I'd say equally fucking traumatic cases.
00:26:36
Yeah. At the same time would have been awesome. Didn't happen. But we'll talk about that.
00:26:40
I won't talk a lot about that. Would have been, actually would have been beyond crazy.
00:26:44
Because it's like Golden State Killer in and of itself is mind-blowingly crazy. And then the idea of that where it's like, then you're just pulling down all kinds of cases.
00:26:56
So Mr. Cruel, I want to say it was similar of what it did to the public. But I think Golden State Killer was so little known, and it wasn't known his scope until much later.
00:27:09
So it's hard to say that. But this is one of those cases where it changed life in the suburbs in Melbourne's outer reaches forever in the 80s.
00:27:20
One of those, oh, the 80s are fucked up. We can't let our kids play outside. Yeah.
00:27:24
It just left an fucking indelible scar on that. Did that sound smart? It did sound smart and good.
00:27:31
All right. There we go. I didn't make up a word. You didn't. You used it. You used it correctly.
00:27:38
Thank you. And you didn't even stop until the end. Yeah, I didn't even question myself until the end.
00:27:43
Until the end. All right, here we go. In the late 80s to early 90s, in the suburbs of Melbourne, Australia, a serial pedophile
00:27:51
rapist known as Mr. Cruel was fucking traumatizing everyone. All right, here we go.
00:27:57
So on December 27th, 1988, in Ringwood, which is a working class suburb of Melbourne, at
00:28:04
At about 5.30 a.m., a man wearing a blue ski mask and dark blue overalls breaks into the home of John and Julie Wills, where they live with their four daughters.
00:28:14
He first goes to the parents' bedroom and puts a gun to Mr. Wills' temple. Julie starts screaming to her daughters to fucking run for it.
00:28:23
Oh, could you imagine waking up to your mother screaming, run? Yes. No, I can't.
00:28:27
Please. He tells her to stop screaming and asks the dad if he's going to be a hero, which is such a fucking threatening thing to ask someone.
00:28:38
He forces them to lie face down on their bed and ties them up with copper wire. He tells them, and this is one of his ruses, that I'm just here for money.
00:28:47
So they're more compliant. So they let him tie them up and the span takes $35 from the nightstand.
00:28:56
and then this man heads for the kids room cuts the telephone cables goes in the bedroom where
00:29:04
10 year old Sharon and her siblings are sleeping I know okay this is fucked up and horrible and
00:29:10
children are involved and it's big you know but also it's one of the most famous cases out of
00:29:15
Australia and when we were there we people would talk to us about it all the time and it was like
00:29:20
for live shows you just can't do these yeah this is this is the kind of one you can only do on no
00:29:25
one forgets these and the horrible you know it's like the adam walsh one for us it's it's not solved
00:29:30
and it's fucking insane and very solvable yeah maybe okay so sharon is a 10 year old she's a
00:29:39
quiet girl she plays a lot of musical instruments she sings in the victoria's children's choir
00:29:43
he addresses her by name which he maybe knew because their house had been featured in the
00:29:49
newspaper six months earlier after the home caught on fire or maybe from being in the choir
00:29:54
but that thing of like you see a child in the newspaper and these fucking like we should stop printing children names in newspapers maybe I mean if only that would solve it
00:30:05
Correct. Yes, you were right. So he lifts Sharon from her bunk, blindfolds and gags her.
00:30:13
And after grabbing a few items of Sharon's clothing, he leaves the home with her.
00:30:18
It takes Mr. and Mrs. Willis 15 minutes to get free. they see that the daughter's missing and their phone cord's been cut they go next door wake up
00:30:27
the neighbors and they call the police there's no trace of sharon and no witnesses could be found
00:30:32
they have press conferences the cops are going crazy to find her 18 hours later just after
00:30:38
midnight a woman finds sharon standing on a street corner i forgot to fucking translate this
00:30:45
six kilometers from her home which i think is just a couple miles right i think it's like three
00:30:49
three miles or so yeah so she's three miles from home she's wearing a man's shirt and wrapped in
00:30:55
garbage bags she's alive but she's alive and in a calm voice she says to the woman
00:31:01
my name's sharon wills and i was taken from the home my home early this morning a man left me here
00:31:07
and told me to go and ring home this woman was like what the fuck yeah um she described sharon
00:31:15
is being brave and calm and police were called and Sharon is brought home. She had been blindfolded
00:31:22
throughout her whole 18 hour ordeal. So she couldn't describe her attacker, but she was able
00:31:27
to give them many other details about her time in captivity. The man had taken her to a house and
00:31:32
sexually assaulted her. She said he was occasionally gruff, but mostly soft spoken and seemed to be
00:31:38
caring. And she even used the word gentle, which is so fucking creepy. He gave her a glass of milk
00:31:44
and a Vegemite sandwich and some lemonade. So he was like feeding her and caretaking her.
00:31:50
Before he let her go, though, he made her shower thoroughly. Yeah. He brushed and flushed her teeth.
00:31:56
And he trimmed and cleaned her nails, thoroughly washing away any forensic evidence.
00:32:02
So clearly he was aware. But even in 1988, he was. Which then I just go cop, cop, cop.
00:32:08
Right. It's what everyone fucking thinks. Like he lay a sheet down on the bathroom floor,
00:32:12
make her stand on it after the bath. and dressed her there, wouldn't even let her feet hit the ground.
00:32:18
Wow. And she described to police how he made her stand in a large plastic garbage bag,
00:32:26
which he pulled up and taped to her shoulders, put another bag over her head and taped it to her body
00:32:31
before cutting out a small hole for her face and then dropped her off a few miles from her house,
00:32:35
telling her to walk to the nearest house to call home. So a $100, no, $100,000 reward is offered
00:32:42
for information on Sharon's abduction. This is the first reward offered in an abduction case in the state's history.
00:32:49
So they've never offered a reward before. There were a couple of suspects, but nobody panned out.
00:32:55
His next abduction took place 18 months later on July 3, 1990 in Canterbury, just over 10 miles from Sharon's house.
00:33:03
It's an affluent suburb. A 13-year-old girl, Nicola Linus, and her 15-year-old sister Fiona,
00:33:11
their home alone and their family's rented house but their parents were out and they were only
00:33:16
supposed to be gone for like two hours so police think that this guy was canvassing the area
00:33:20
the linus family uh was moving back to england after the father's three-year transfer had ended
00:33:27
for his job at price waterhouse so they were packed and they were ready to leave within a few days
00:33:32
and the party that they're the where the parents were at was a farewell party for them nicola is
00:33:39
is described by her parents as a hardworking girl, one of the top students. At about 11.30 p.m., both girls are shaken awake by a masked man armed with a long knife and a handgun
00:33:51
who had crept through a rear window of the house wearing a black ski mask. 15-year-old Fiona is tied up and left on her bed,
00:33:59
while 13-year-old Nicola is forced into another room and told to gather her school uniform, blazer, tunic, and runners.
00:34:07
Those are her shoes. Yeah. For those not from Australia. Before leaving with her, Mr. Cruel tells Fiona to tell her father that he would release Nicola unhurt if they paid a $25,000 ransom.
00:34:22
So Mr. Cruel then walks Nicola out of the house and steals Linus' family rented car and fucking takes off in that car.
00:34:32
So Mr. and Mrs. Linus arrive home about 30 minutes later. they find fiona on her bed tied up a massive search begins and mr linus spoke in a press
00:34:41
conference and offered the ransom money but mr cool didn't reach out they couldn't get a hold of
00:34:45
him he's full of shit it was another fucking red herring so they would look into his his business
00:34:50
dealings all of that shit oh right um and be distracted by something else just like in the
00:34:56
past one where they were like he was there for money he was stealing shit right no um
00:35:02
instead they found the um rented car a couple blocks away so he had just driven it to his car
00:35:10
as another like way to throw off police uh the following day nicola is left alive
00:35:19
beside an electric an electricity sub station in queue about three miles from her home
00:35:24
just before 2 a.m she's fully clothed she's wrapped in a blanket it was her 14th birthday
00:35:30
she went home and called her father she went to a home and called her father so she had been gone for 50 hours
00:35:37
shit she tells police that her abductor had driven her to the area and then when he was taking her back
00:35:44
he had driven her there, walked her around a little kind of to confuse her while her eyes were taped shut
00:35:48
made her sit with her head between her legs and took off and he was gone by the time she removed her blindfold
00:35:53
that she had been wearing for 50 fucking hours oh she told police that she was masked and bound throughout the ordeal but was not threatened with violence she had been given food and drink she had described her attacker as affectionate
00:36:06
and chummy like what a fucking psychopath yeah this dude is also it's making me think of uh
00:36:12
paul holes on twitter somebody said do you think that the east area rapist or the golden state
00:36:17
killer could also be this case and they brought up some other northern california uh strong maybe
00:36:24
it was the i-5 strangler it made just somebody another case and then he was talking about the
00:36:29
difference between the mls one is yeah i remember this like one is a friendly person and one is
00:36:36
stroking the hair pretending that it's a consensual situation and then um golden state
00:36:41
killer is as aggressive sexual sadist and a psychological asshole leave that in i mean
00:36:48
what if we you say stuff and then i'll just read paul's twitter how about from now on your stories are always just you reading paul's twitter
00:36:56
i might have to go to therapy more therapy more therapy he calls her missy during fantasy games
00:37:06
he played with her she said he was meticulous in covering his forensic tracks and she also told him
00:37:12
that he had watched the press conference where her father had spoke oh fuck with her in the room and
00:37:16
he was commenting on it to Nicola about it. Like, can you imagine being a kidnapped person
00:37:22
and you're in the room where your father's pleading for your fucking return? And he's
00:37:25
just like commenting on it? That's so dark. Like it's so dark. It must it's so disorienting
00:37:31
and upsetting anyway. And then and then you're just kind of like, you're through the looking
00:37:35
glass. I think that like, I think at some point in the past 10 years, it hit me how terrifying
00:37:40
being blindfolded must be. Yeah. So it kind of gives me a panic attack whenever I think
00:37:44
about that yeah so that and then to be hearing what's going on on the tv too has to be so scary
00:37:50
and okay it was then reported so then the cops at this point police are able to connect these two
00:37:58
cases sharon and nicholas um and they didn't make this public they they connected these two cases
00:38:04
and then they realized that there had been another attack that they could link it to um
00:38:09
beforehand in august of 1987 so this is the previous one and about an 11 year old girl she's
00:38:17
never been named at about 4 a.m wearing a mask and carrying a small handgun and a large hunting knife
00:38:24
he removes a window pane in the lounge of the house in the suburb um of lower plenty is the
00:38:30
name of the suburb of melbourne remember when we were in melbourne remember like this is so cute
00:38:35
here no it's a scary place but they have such cute dresses the best dresses okay so he first
00:38:43
again and it's in a couple of these stories that i read online it sounds like he went straight to
00:38:49
the parents room like he knew what rooms everyone was in meaning he canvassed it he's chasing that
00:38:54
shit he's watching them exactly so he for he wakes the parents and forces them to lie on their
00:39:00
stomachs ties their hands and feet he uses expertly tied knots commonly used by sailors
00:39:06
and those familiar with securing loads again the knots are like distinct um and then he gags them
00:39:12
and puts surgical tape over their eyes and locks them in their bedroom closet he says get into the
00:39:18
wardroom and sit down uh all i want is money liar liar so like of course they're compli
00:39:24
complicit complicit uh complicit compliant compliant all of them and complacent because they're like oh he just wants money i don't need to defend my family let's just go
00:39:38
along with what he says it's it's such a great ruse because if you were like i just want to kill
00:39:43
your daughter they'd be like fuck this shit i'm gonna kill i'm gonna fight to the death right you
00:39:48
know yes exactly it's there's an element of relaxation because it's like he can take anything
00:39:52
you want. That's what everyone says in that horrible situation. It's just like, who cares?
00:39:56
Take it what you want, don't hurt us. And he's like, I'm not gonna, I just want money. So they
00:40:00
go along with it, which is so evil. So there's the next thing that happens is their six year old
00:40:06
son is blindfolded and gagged and he's tied to his bed. And then and remember, this is the first
00:40:11
known Mr. Cruel attack, then he spends the next two hours in the house sexually assaulting the
00:40:19
11 year old daughter in the house he stays in the house he doesn't kidnap her so if this is truly
00:40:24
his first attack which we don't believe it is of course then he's he's clearly with these other two
00:40:30
cases that i already talked about um escalating yeah he takes them away and keeps them for longer
00:40:35
and longer times but in this one that happened before he does it in the fucking house he's in
00:40:40
no hurry he even takes a break to make something to eat in the kitchen just like the fucking golden
00:40:45
state killer did and i wonder and i don't mean to like question you on this but well if the knots
00:40:50
are the same if these knots are even similar to the golden state killer remember because he spent
00:40:56
some time in the navy in australia that's why they were wondering if he was uh had something
00:41:02
to do with this case d'angelo did yeah the golden state killer joseph d'angelo spent time in the
00:41:09
navy in australia shit yeah but in that time frame or before way before like in the late 60s so he
00:41:15
was familiar with it going there wouldn't have been a weird thing for him no no no no but i
00:41:21
wonder if those knots were taught in the navy oh got it or in australia for some reason yeah you
00:41:27
know what i mean yes um he also searched the home and he did steal a box of classical records
00:41:32
and a coat but they think that was a red herring too but i'm like maybe it's just
00:41:37
fucking into classical records. Or maybe he's like one of those fucking weirdos that's all grabby and like, I need
00:41:43
something. This is the closest thing. So listen, girls and guys, check your dad's record collection
00:41:49
and see if he has an errant box of classical music and then turn him in to the Melbourne police Australian classical music That right So the girl later told police that he had made a phone call near her while she was tied up and threatened another family with physical violence She said he told
00:42:06
the person on the phone to move their children or they would be in danger and that he called the
00:42:11
person he phoned Bozo. He like that was one of his like nicknames for people. But when police
00:42:16
checked the phone records, it revealed there was no phone call made. So that was another red herring
00:42:21
for her to tell them about that but i don't understand that i don't believe it i don't know
00:42:25
why but that creeps me out worse than every someone talking to nobody on the fake phone yes
00:42:31
i hate that so much yeah it's like eerie because i hate bad acting and you know it was bad acting
00:42:37
but like but that idea of i'm doing something like it's there's a control element to it i'm
00:42:43
doing something and it's not for anyone but this girl right here and the police who come and yeah
00:42:49
it's like a shock and awe thing you don't know what's going on and then you more
00:42:52
don't know what's going on it's a call was coming from inside the house type of thing
00:42:57
yeah but then I'm like could the phone records have been shitty back then that doesn't make any sense
00:43:02
unless he's just trying to make this girl think that he is a full time 24 7 criminal
00:43:10
you know rapist where it's like once I'm done with this appointment I'm going to go do my other thing
00:43:17
Right, right. So they think that was just a red herring, which was one of his stupid signatures.
00:43:23
This fucking asshole. Okay. So this connection made Mr. Cruel a household name. And the name Mr. Cruel comes now when he's described by Victorian police in the late Victoria police.
00:43:36
Not Victorian police, because that would be a weird time travel-y thing. This is Jack the Ripper's investigators.
00:43:42
Like, oh, and really, really quick, there's going to be a future case. no let me wax my mustache really quick that's not what happened um victoria police in the late 80s
00:43:53
described this guy in the papers as super cool and super cruel and so some fucking
00:43:58
smart out journalist was like that's his name mr cruel wait sorry who would describe this guy as
00:44:04
cool miss like cool as in like cool as a cucumber like he's hung out at the house and shit he's not
00:44:10
worried about getting caught. Yeah. Not like, you know, who's cool. Not like a...
00:44:16
The Fonz? Yeah. There you go. Thank you. This is the only cool person I can think of.
00:44:21
And you were right. I was thinking of just the worst people. Okay. Name one person
00:44:26
you were thinking of. I forgot already. You know, Kato Kaelin. Cool. You know. You know the kind of guy
00:44:39
you'd want to talk to at a party kato kailin you know what if it was kato kailin no it's not it's not and we're not
00:44:47
suggesting it no i met him very nice person very nice everyone says he's the nicest and cool and
00:44:53
cool that's one thing they say about him super cool okay so the police are now very concerned
00:44:59
because and the police i want to give them credit and the investigators were fucking on this shit
00:45:04
hardcore from like from get like they from get who am I from get uh except they fucked up a little
00:45:11
bit but I'll tell you about that later okay so police are worried because the time lapse between
00:45:16
his attacks is decreasing while the time he holds his victims is increasing and so the police
00:45:22
announced that they believe Mr. Cruel to be responsible for at least six attacks before this
00:45:27
since 1984 so but they didn't give descriptions but they did say that not all the victims were
00:45:32
children, but they didn't like tell you which attacks they were, but they think that he's
00:45:36
escalating. Yeah. And these other ones, these older ones fit his MO. Also, the idea of children being the victim as an escalation marker makes a lot of sense
00:45:45
because it's like to attack a person near you, to attack another adult or whatever,
00:45:49
but it is especially evil and disgusting and awful to be like, take a 10 year old out of
00:45:56
their bed. Absolutely. But you think that that wouldn't be the escalation because you'd attack a kid first because they'd
00:46:02
be easier to handle than an adult like a woman an adult woman and yeah i mean it's all it's all
00:46:10
listen don't do either look look and listen don't do stop it don't do crimes oh oh are you the serial
00:46:17
killer listening to this podcast do us a favor and fucking knock it off please get help you need
00:46:23
help or just go go into the woods for a while yeah just stay away just don't do it please people
00:46:29
have plans. They have fun stuff they want to do. So because very little evidence is left behind
00:46:37
because he's so good at hiding his tracks, the investigation into finding him is a total dead end
00:46:43
even though they're fucking crazy looking. One piece of evidence that emerged in later
00:46:47
interviews with Sharon and Nicola was that both girls, this is so fucking creepy, were called hearing low
00:46:53
flying planes over the house where they were held captive. Oh, oh. What did you think that meant?
00:46:59
For a second, I thought you meant that they'd heard low-flying planes like days before.
00:47:06
Oh, like he was a fucking... Parachuting into their house. In a biplane, like fucking recon.
00:47:13
That would be so scary. That would be horror. It's like the Red Baron is coming after you.
00:47:18
Oh, no. That's not what happened, though. But that's actually... It's the other thing of you're blindfolded and so then you can fucking hear it.
00:47:24
And you're traumatized. So you're listening to everything and you're, you know...
00:47:29
They're just laying there. Oh, honey. Yeah. I feel so bad for them. So they hear low flying planes where they were held captive.
00:47:37
Nicholas said that it sounded like the planes were coming into land, which is like, girl, get it.
00:47:43
Police worked with the Civil Aviation Authority to pinpoint flight paths. And based on the description from the girls about the frequency and loudness of the flights,
00:47:53
which is so interesting that like every little detail counts. you know when everyone's like is there anything else you can think of I've told you every
00:48:00
thing it's like you just don't know what can matter yeah so the so based on all of that they
00:48:05
determined that the girls had heard planes on the flight path to till a marine airport so they like
00:48:11
pinpointed the fucking airport near melbourne so mr cruel's final known attack all right this is
00:48:17
fucking depressing mr cruel's final known attack takes place nine months after nicola's attack
00:48:23
on the evening of Saturday, April 31st. That's not right. April 13th, 1991 in Templestowe.
00:48:31
It's a high end suburb of Melbourne close to the other attacks. 13 year old Carmen Chan is home
00:48:37
babysitting her two younger sisters, which is a totally normal occurrence as their parents worked long hours
00:48:43
in the family's successful Chinese restaurant. It was just 10 minutes away. The Chans are a hardworking couple.
00:48:50
They built a small restaurant and property development empire since migrating from Hong Kong 16 years earlier.
00:48:56
They worked like 15, 16 hours a day. Their home is described as being like a fortress.
00:49:03
So it's an 18-room house, and it's protected by a two-meter fence with electric front gates.
00:49:08
So they're not fucking around on security. So leaving their three daughters at home
00:49:12
is not that big of a deal because they've taken measures. Carmen went to the same school as Nicola,
00:49:19
which is a weird coincidence. Or is it a red flag? herring we don't know is a herring wrapped in a flag a red flag herring is a new thing
00:49:29
um carmen's principal describes her as charming polite enthusiastic and lovely she had a large group of friends and was extremely hard working
00:49:39
so the sisters are watching a documentary about marilyn rowe in carmen's bedroom
00:49:45
when around 9 p.m the two older sisters carmen and the sister decide to go to the kitchen but
00:49:50
they're stopped in the hallway by a strange man in a balaclava and he's carrying a large knife now
00:49:59
you've seen this fucking drawing of the balaclava that's supposedly handmade and has these crazy
00:50:05
white stitches around the eyes and around the mouth it's so upsetting we're gonna post it on
00:50:09
instagram when we post the episode tomorrow it's very terrifying it's just like worse than a regular
00:50:14
balaclava somehow and also when we uh oftentimes these kinds of stories come up the idea of walking
00:50:21
you're in your house you think you know what's happening stepping into a hallway and there's that
00:50:26
like uh my therapist described it as being mirror neurons where when you picture something happening
00:50:31
to someone you actually get the sensation and the feeling and the stress reactor and the stress
00:50:36
reaction because that's us empathizing with each other but that idea of you know when something
00:50:42
weird happens in your brain, like you can't, you feel yourself not registering it because it's so
00:50:47
weird. Or you almost like, I feel like if I saw that, I would go, what's going on? Like you think
00:50:51
it's a joke. Exactly. You don't consider that it's immediately a threat. Yeah. There's a hang time
00:50:56
where you're just like, there's not someone in the hallway. Your brain has to catch up to it or what
00:51:01
it means or what's dad, is dad playing a trick on us? Exactly. Like it's so upsettingly awful.
00:51:06
This is why I'm like pepper spray first. Like if you accidentally pepper spray your dad,
00:51:10
because he was playing a trick on you, then your dad fucking deserves it. Yeah, I think that's a great way to teach pranksters
00:51:15
their boundaries. You know what I mean? Yeah, kick someone in the dick if they jump out and scare you.
00:51:21
100%. If it turns out that it's your friend fucking with you, then they deserved it.
00:51:25
Well, then they won't fuck with you anymore. Absolutely. That's for sure. No one will fuck with you anymore.
00:51:29
No one. The word will get around. No one, but no one. What was that? Why did I talk like that?
00:51:35
I like that I just explained why somebody in the hallway is scary as if that was my new idea for this fucking podcast come on we can say whatever we want
00:51:44
we really can it's really silly no one can stop us no one but no one all right Carmen sister okay so back to the horror show balaclava here's what's scary about it it's like
00:51:56
he has you know like even in the golden state killer when he's wearing the balaclava ski mask
00:52:02
you can see what his shape his eyes are what yeah maybe like the skin around it what color it is
00:52:06
this one is made so it's just peepholes yeah it's awful you can't see his mouth you can't
00:52:11
describe a lip shape anything like that it looks like something out of a metallica video
00:52:15
where it's like oh this is a it's this creature that's down at the bottom of a a clay pit are you suggesting james hatfield is the mystery is mr cruel i'm saying why don't we
00:52:26
look at him when it's so obvious when was where was he were they touring australia were they
00:52:31
I do know they kicked off their they kicked off one of their tours in Petaluma at the Phoenix Theater
00:52:40
which is so hilarious to me. Why? Because they were a barrier band and they were small and we
00:52:46
were small and they were like well start there These people I almost called you guys hicks I'm sorry
00:52:52
We are hicks for sure. But we contain so much more. Multitudes. Okay Stop it this is horrible
00:53:01
It's the worst. Okay. He grabs both the girls in the hallway by their hair, forces Carmen's two younger sisters into a closet,
00:53:10
bars the door with the bed. The two younger girls later tell police that the intruder had called out,
00:53:15
I won't hurt you. And by the time the girls pushed their way out of the cupboard,
00:53:20
I think it was like 15 minutes later, there's no trace and no sign of Carmen. Police dogs trace Carmen sent through the house,
00:53:29
past the family's car in the driveway which they find is spray painted with the words payback
00:53:35
payback asian drug dealer and more to come fucking red herring yep now i'm onto it now you know
00:53:44
they are they track across the garden then the tennis court through the gate the scent is lost
00:53:50
on the street um based on the mo of course the police are like it motherfucking mr cruel this is bad so and unfortunately search for Carmen starts out badly Because are you ready for this Listen fucking amen
00:54:05
There were all these task forces put together. Everyone tried really hard to solve this.
00:54:10
It didn't work. Look, here's a negative thing. Look and listen. The initial police officer in charge that night
00:54:17
set up the command post inside of Carmen's house. The crime scene. inside the house. Oh, oh, oh. So he brought everyone in. He's like, this is a crime scene.
00:54:28
Everyone get in here. Meet me in the middle of the house. Shit. Yeah. But it's the late 80s? 91. So basically the 80s still.
00:54:36
That might be too late to have made that mistake. Yeah. Like do it on the tennis
00:54:40
court or something. Yeah. If it's an 18 room house. Yeah. Go outside. Yeah. So set up outside. So people were swarming the house, which was supposed to be
00:54:52
a crime scene, which meant it wasn't sealed off as it should have been, possibly destroying
00:54:56
vital evidence. But knowing Mr. Cruel had released Sharon Wills after 18 hours and Nicola Linus after
00:55:04
50, the Chans had hoped that their daughter would be home soon. But those deadlines passed and there was no sign of Carmen and no word for Mr. Cruel.
00:55:13
So because of the spray paint in the car, police also spent months sifting through every
00:55:17
aspect of Mr. Chan's life to see if the abduction was maybe drug or business related.
00:55:22
Well, they'd have to. Yeah, they did. They didn't think it was. They kind of knew it wasn't, but had to.
00:55:28
Yeah. It's like work, time, money. Exactly. Fucking waste. They found Mr. Chan was squeaky clean, and that the slogans were another red herring,
00:55:38
and had sent the police on another wild goose chase. So, Nicola and Carmen went to the same school, and Carmen had been abducted during a school
00:55:49
holiday and the other girls had been abducted around or on school holidays too so the investigators
00:55:55
surmised that maybe mr cruel was worked in education or had a partner who did and and
00:56:00
had that partner had gone away out of town for the school holiday oh yeah so they fucking asked
00:56:05
everyone all these crazy questions that might have been another red herring too to like spend time
00:56:09
asking teachers and principals and people who work with them questions too that didn't have
00:56:13
anything to do with it it's so funny because there already are so many red herrings and cases like
00:56:17
this and then just adding yeah more to the pile since it leads it back to it's a cop right right
00:56:24
so a dramatic quote police need your help poster and it's almost like to me this reminds me of
00:56:30
when we used to see the milk carton the kids on milk cartons it's like terrifying thing
00:56:35
when we were kids uh this poster showed photographs of the three known victims and
00:56:41
offered a three hundred thousand dollar reward for information leading to mr cruel's conviction
00:56:45
it sent it was sent to every home in victoria and some in new south wales and south australia
00:56:51
which was a first every single home wow huge versions were plastered on hundreds of billboards
00:56:57
and smaller ones were displayed on melbourne's buses and trams it changed life in australia
00:57:01
forever in the standard we thought it was safe oh no it's the 80s no one is safe that was my quote
00:57:07
way that's right so phyllis chan oh honey the mother the mother okay i want in a lot of podcasts
00:57:15
this is the part where they'll just start playing her talking at this press conference,
00:57:19
which is the most traumatizing, sad, scary thing I've ever heard in my life. Oh, no.
00:57:23
So I'm not doing that. Because she's so upset. She, it's, if you listen to it, if you can handle shit like this, but I, I was, listen,
00:57:31
picture it, I was walking through H&M, and I was listening to Casefile, the Casefile episode,
00:57:36
and then it just starts playing. And I got just chills down my whole body. It's so like the grief you can hear in her voice is heartbreaking.
00:57:46
Yeah. So she makes these emotional pleas to him, to Mr. Cruel, to bring her daughter home.
00:57:52
She offers rewards. She offers to switch places. She offers her life for her daughter.
00:57:57
No, no, no, no. I know. That's also a person that's I mean, like, obviously, that's what any mother's going to feel.
00:58:02
But then it makes me go she she wasn't in a good place to be making any statement whatsoever.
00:58:07
If you're they know he's watching. So they're like, let's just let her talk. And she calls, she says, I won't call you Mr. Cruel.
00:58:14
I'm calling you Mr. Kind because I know you're kind and you'll let her go. Like just trying to fucking.
00:58:19
That's a good psychology. Right. Trying to reason with him. It's so heartbreaking.
00:58:25
So for almost a year, there is hope of Carmen's safer turn. But on April 9th, 1992, just four days short of the first anniversary of Carmen's abduction,
00:58:35
A man is walking his dog along Eggers Creek in Thomastown when he discovers a human skull in a landfill.
00:58:46
DNA confirms it's Carmen's skull, and she'd been shot three times in the head. They were able to find some other bones, but she'd been shot three times in the head.
00:58:54
The head of the homicide squad thinks that Carmen's body had been there for nearly 12 months.
00:59:00
So maybe since the beginning, which is so heartbreaking. That's the worst. Yeah. Investigators think that it's the most likely reason for the change from kidnapper to killer is that Carmen somehow managed to see Mr. Cruel's face.
00:59:15
Oh, yeah. Something he had painstakingly avoided with other victims through the use of masks and blindfolded.
00:59:22
He had told one victim before not to look at him saying, my freedom is more important than your life.
00:59:27
And Carmen's mother, Phyllis, told police that her daughter was not the sort of girl to accept captivity without a fight.
00:59:33
and she thought that Carmen may have ripped off her blindfold and confronted Mr. Cruel.
00:59:38
For nearly three years after Carmen's found, 40 investigators in the Spectrum Task Force followed 10,000 tip-offs, tips.
00:59:48
One of the victims said she saw a camera and tripod at the end of the bed. She had peeked.
00:59:53
Oh, God. Yeah I know which affirms the speculation that Mr Cruel likely created homemade porn to keep as trophies So then they like have to look through all this shared homemade porn and see if they can find the porn made of these girls
01:00:08
Which, like, you've got to think about the people on that task force who had to then watch fucking hours and hours and hours of child porn.
01:00:14
Oh, it's horrible. How awful is that? Yeah, there's so much. There's so much. Even thinking about something like that is really upsetting.
01:00:24
Yeah. And the idea that those people do that for a living. It makes you understand the whole trope of coming home and not wanting to tell your significant other how your day was.
01:00:36
Because you've just watched hours of child porn to catch a killer who's on the loose.
01:00:41
And you get why they kind of disassociate and become different people. This is how the world is to them.
01:00:49
Yeah. And they don't want to let their husband or wife or partner know what it's like.
01:00:54
Of course not. It sucks. Okay, so another burst of publicity. They have leads, but no one pans out.
01:01:04
There's another burst of publicity. In 1993, after police released details and sketches of the interior of Mr. Cruel's house where he held his victims,
01:01:16
because one of the girls peeked out of her blindfold, even though it was fucking risking her life.
01:01:23
Sharon and Nicola were able to provide police with aspects of parts of the inside of the house
01:01:29
were like including like and there's sketches online you can see like kind of crude but like
01:01:33
layout of the bathroom where the toilet was where the sink was where the bathtub was what color the
01:01:38
fucking carpet was like little weird details that if you lived there you wouldn't you know you would
01:01:43
be like that's my bedroom well and also just if you read those and then you're like wait a second
01:01:49
yeah george's bathroom is like that you know what i mean and they have a carpet that's green
01:01:54
that's so creepy it's so creepy um also like one of the girls was able to tell them what side of
01:02:00
the house she entered the house entered on from the parking lot so like even those little things
01:02:04
they could search houses and they ended up searching 30 000 houses based on this all this
01:02:09
information all the information that was given it's insane yeah they really worked this case
01:02:15
Yeah. Overall, Operation Spectrum was Victoria Police's largest ever investigation at the time.
01:02:21
It changed the way all Victorian detectives conduct investigations. Almost a $4 million manhunt, though, turned up little in the way of answers to who Mr. Cruel was.
01:02:33
Okay. Another roadblock was that some of the evidence from prior Mr. Cruel attacks from before had been lost,
01:02:41
including tape Mr. Kool-Aid used to bind one of his victims in an earlier case that wasn't one of
01:02:48
these and because they get skilled more skilled with time the older ones are so important because
01:02:56
maybe they were less skilled they were a little messier yeah but they couldn't find that there
01:03:00
was so there was no DNA that could be found from that and the stink that the spectrum operation
01:03:05
spectrum detective kicked up because they couldn't find those exhibits records from earlier sex crimes
01:03:11
prompted a review by Victoria Police and an introduction of minimum standards for all future major crime investigation,
01:03:19
and it covered such things as forensic crime scene preservation and other aspects of the investigation.
01:03:24
And because of that, the police force became more professional. It strengthened legislation regarding sex and child pornography as well.
01:03:30
Good. The tax force was disbanded, though, in January of 1994 after detectives had eliminated more than 27,000 suspects.
01:03:41
It did, but it didn't catch Mr. Cruel, but the investigation led to 74 people being charged with offenses, including rape, incest, blackmail, attempted bestiality.
01:03:52
Oh, no. Possession of child pornography, threats to kill, making obscene phone calls and firearm offenses.
01:04:00
They worked for 29 months. I said all that. Okay. Since Carmen's murder, there have been no more apparent crimes committed that could be connected to Mr. Cruel.
01:04:10
They ended. And remember when fucking GSK ended in 86, they were like, he had died. People don't end.
01:04:16
Yeah, it doesn't just stop. One theory is that the actual Mr. Cruel was interviewed and feared that he was on a suspect list.
01:04:30
So he just was too scared and stopped. That's one theory. The FBI got involved. Their analysis stated that he's a functional individual who has a steady employment.
01:04:39
He's generally regarded as a good neighbor, quiet, polite, somewhat introverted, maybe involved in certain community-minded projects.
01:04:47
Like, so just a fucking everyday dude. They built a profile of a man aged between 35 and 40, slightly built with sandy or ginger-colored hair, softly spoken and quite caring in his own monstrous way.
01:05:00
In fact, one of the victims told police that he, when he bathed her after, he bathed her, quote, like a mother washing a baby.
01:05:08
God. I know. So he's having this totally separate fantasy experience where this is a consensual fucking relationship with a child.
01:05:19
Right. And saying to them, he said to one of the girls, I'm going to bring you home in 50 hours.
01:05:23
He brought her home in exactly 50 hours. Like this to him is just this little moment.
01:05:28
Yeah. It's just something he needs to do and then everything's okay. Right. And he's not a monster because he's not killing them in his mind probably.
01:05:35
Yeah. So then in April of 2016 in the lead to the 25th anniversary of Carmen murder Victoria Police released a 1994 dossier to the Herald Sun newspaper basically containing intimate details of the case that hadn been released and contained information about seven possible suspects that hadn been ruled out since then Oh So including details of the prime suspect So the prime suspect was then a 75
01:06:07
he's like now a late 70-year-old former Melbourne University lecturer named Brian Allen Elkner,
01:06:15
who wrote all these creepy fucking like Marquis de Sade style papers about evil and how doing evil is like an art form
01:06:22
and it's like all gross. In the 1970s, he was arrested and imprisoned for 10 years after pleading guilty to a series of rapes and other violent sexual offenses against young girls and women, including attacks at knife point in their homes.
01:06:38
But he's like, hey, I know I'm the prime suspect. I didn't do it. Leave me alone.
01:06:43
I paid my dues. But what the fuck? And he serves 10 years in prison for being a violent child rapist.
01:06:54
And then he's like, and now I'm going to get a job at the fucking university. No, I think he went back to his job as a lecturer.
01:07:00
Like he had already done that. Guys, it's got to change. We got to not. We got to keep it.
01:07:05
There's got to be a qualified lecturer who's not a fucking child rapist. There's got to be other choices.
01:07:12
There's got to be someone else in the bunch. I can't. Just the idea of people being like, oh, yeah, I was a serial rapist, but I went to jail for seven years.
01:07:22
Now that's done. and it's like but we've it's been proven it doesn't end like no and it's like and if even
01:07:27
if it did you don't get it you don't get a free pass after like i know it's like they paid their
01:07:32
dues no you didn't no no that's not enough dues that's not enough dues a million years aren't
01:07:37
enough dues you're not allowed to fucking sexually assault and rape women or men like it's just and
01:07:42
especially fucking children and you're gonna get it for the rest of your fucking life so now all
01:07:46
these like newspapers were like following him and he's like you're you're what you're doing to me
01:07:50
is the same you know you're harassing me and i'm a victim too now saying like he was like one of
01:07:54
no buddy no you're not that's why i'll fucking say your goddamn name brian allen elkner you piece
01:08:00
of shit fuck you well also that's the thing of here's the here's the thing you know if you're
01:08:07
gonna go choose to be a serial rapist which is what the choice you made this will be something
01:08:12
that impacts your future life yeah like maybe you'll be suspected of other things after right
01:08:18
You don't just get to wipe the slate clean. There's a reason. He's like, yeah, police call me after every time there's some kind of, you know, predator on the loose.
01:08:26
Yeah, dummy. Yeah, because you're a predator. Yeah, you're a predator. I don't give a shit if you've never fucking done it again.
01:08:33
You will always prove you've never done it again. Right, right. You can't. Creep.
01:08:37
So Victorian police have confirmed that they investigated and ruled out a connection to the state's infamous and identified offender, Mr. Cruel, to the GSK, to the Golden State Killer.
01:08:49
But they shared a ton of traits, as we already said. Yeah. And they're both highly premeditated and surveilled neighborhoods for weeks at a time.
01:08:57
From what I can tell, they don't have DNA on Mr. Cruel at all. But I could I could see them having it and not telling anyone.
01:09:06
wait so then how do we know that they ruled about they just by timelines and stuff no they didn't
01:09:11
rule him out oh the gs golden side killer yes he yeah it's not him oh okay maybe by dna i don't
01:09:18
know but hopefully uh hopefully they do have it and they'll be able to run it through that shit
01:09:23
and solve it soon because that would be another great fucking win yeah that'd be amazing yeah
01:09:27
well also that's just such a um god that's such an awful you those kind of things can't just sit
01:09:35
they're like, we're all fine with it. Yeah. And not that they do, because obviously, like,
01:09:40
it's very heartening to hear that they put together a task force with 40 cops on it.
01:09:45
That's amazing. When's the last time we've said something like that? Yeah. Where it's like,
01:09:50
usually the task force has five people who are working overtime. Yeah. To try to solve something.
01:09:55
Yeah. There's some number two of like the amount of unpaid overtime hours that these police officers
01:10:03
put into this. I mean, there's all these numbers about it, but it's really horrifying. And to be, I feel like to be
01:10:11
from that, a kid from that period and that boogeyman is still fucking out there and it could be anyone. And it's just so scary.
01:10:19
And the poor Chan family who have no peace of mind over this. It's just awful. Yeah, it is. So that's finally Mr. Cruel. Wow, that was great.
01:10:27
Thank you. I think we really enlightened a lot of people on what's bad and how bad things should be dealt with.
01:10:34
That's what I feel good about. They should be dealt with by canned wine. Cheers.
01:10:41
Here's the commercial for canned wine. Excuse me. Steven, can you cut out every time I hock up phlegm like a fucking Greek fisherman?
01:10:49
God damn it. I see that Twitter. Excuse me, Greek fishermen are actually... Excuse me, my dad's Greek and I'm broken hearted that you would say.
01:10:58
I should I pee first? Also actually I think I just stole that from Paul Tompkins
01:11:04
he used to call himself a Greek fisherman so if we're going to footnote credit every fucking aspect of this show tonight
01:11:10
and I think we should. I agree. I'm shouting out to Paul Tompkins that that's the Greek fisherman line is his.
01:11:15
We should call this footnoting the Greek fisherman this episode. Starring Paul Tompkins
01:11:20
Paul Tompkins the Greek fisherman is a Greek fisherman you heard it here for his kids
01:11:24
that's what this episode is called. but we'll do it just all initials p f t e i a g f um all right do you want it
01:11:36
i want to i want to wait but then i don't want to stop you in the middle of it um wait you want to go to the bathroom no no okay i'll just power through this no no no take your
01:11:47
time i have a diaper on this you're just like that astronaut that loved that other astronaut
01:11:53
We never talk about that story. Wait, we should actually do that one. I just remembered it is an attempted murder.
01:12:00
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01:14:01
That's K-N-I-X dot com. Code FLOW15. Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
01:14:13
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary,
01:14:21
massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth.
01:14:29
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections.
01:14:37
And it's like, OK, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it.
01:14:40
I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
01:14:49
But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic.
01:14:55
That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end.
01:15:00
It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:15:09
You just paved something while you were in the bathroom. Oh, yeah. You don't do that?
01:15:19
You don't. That's my favorite thing in the world. I was peeing. Okay, so this one, I've been waiting.
01:15:28
I've been thinking about this one for a long time. Because when I think of us and murderinos and people who love true crime
01:15:36
and people who pay attention to true crime all the time and just ingest it. Like when you go to your for me, it was like go to your hotel room after doing a terrible stand up gig in fucking Peoria, Illinois.
01:15:49
And you turn on TV and you have your choice of all this shit. And you're going to go to, you know, American Justice, the American Justice, Forensic Files, all that.
01:15:58
Yeah, the stuff you're going to get ready for bed while that's on the background because it's fucking soothing and comforting.
01:16:02
And it's like your friend. Yes. And it's also feels like I think there's that you're watching people take care of. Yeah. I think it helped me. Whereas like I just did stand up. I failed miserably. People don't like what I have to say. Now I'm here and I'm getting a perspective. Yeah, actually, I'm fine. And I my life is good. Love it. Whatever. This story and this crime is one of the ones that you've seen on all of them. Yeah.
01:16:31
because it's not so crazy and it is the murder of girly chew hasen coughed um so let me know when
01:16:41
you remember what i'm talking about okay um this was suggested to me uh by my online friend zoe
01:16:46
clar who loves the show and i know her from twitter we hung out at a wedding once she's
01:16:52
super cool girl and uh she was like don't forget don't forget the classic and i was just like
01:16:58
you're right it's it is such a um it's just one of the ones I think of this murderer's face
01:17:04
when I think of do you ever like think like I can't do that one everyone knows that one but
01:17:09
then you're like no this one's great and I should do it yeah yeah well but you know I think I changed
01:17:14
my mind about that because we've met people in VIP lines who have said why haven't you done a BRC
01:17:20
and if we ever give that answer of like we just felt like people have heard it too much yeah they
01:17:24
say but we want to hear you do it which i read as we want to hear you fuck it up um and then it's
01:17:30
like yeah i can i can fuck that up real good um so thanks zoe for suggesting it uh and of course
01:17:39
there's an american justice on it if you know or somebody knows i want i need american justice
01:17:46
there's so many seasons of it but i couldn't find it on like normal youtube normal um internet
01:17:52
channels. Yeah. I couldn't find it. It on Netflix It not on anything Oh I guess I just go home and look it up on amazon but i would buy 20 seasons of american justice absolutely that show is the shit and we as we all know
01:18:06
bill curtis bill curtis is just whether he's wearing a blazer or a brown leather jacket it
01:18:12
doesn't matter i love him he's the he's the original i mean night stalker sorry okay
01:18:19
what did he like so the one show that i could find this on was on like what's that daily motion
01:18:27
video channel it was like super obscure and it was a show called crime stories which is a great
01:18:32
show okay i was trying to figure out if it's like canadian or something because i don't think i've
01:18:36
ever heard of crime stories no um and the narrator on crime stories is a man named bill courage so
01:18:43
like three chairs for Bill Courage holding down the fort on crime stories. All of that sounds like
01:18:50
stuff you would write in a TV show to represent a true crime show. Oh, I get it.
01:18:56
Yeah, like a fake one? Yes. Let's just call him Bill Courage. It's, you know, the host, Bill Courage, whatever.
01:19:03
Okay, bring it to me. So this takes place September 9th, 1999. Okay, here we are.
01:19:09
Here we go. 100 miles south of Albuquerque, New Mexico. There we are. It's an abandoned stretch of highway because, you know, all those weird, crazy roads outside of any city.
01:19:21
Oh, I watch Breaking Bad. Yeah, you know. A lot of shit happens there. It's the kind of road, and I don't know if this is accurate to the real place or if this is just what it all looks like.
01:19:30
But it's that thing where it's the shot, the B-roll shot was one long highway. And then it's shimmery hot down like in the three quarters area.
01:19:39
And there's just like a mesa in the distance. Fuck that shit. the most I know of that is driving home from Vegas
01:19:45
and it fucking sucks. Yes. And it's bleak and you can hide a body out there. Absolutely. Okay. So there's
01:19:53
a guy. He's a road worker and he has been fixing this highway or whatever when he finds
01:20:01
a pile of bloody clothes that look like a young girl's clothes. And so he calls the cops. They come and
01:20:11
they start looking around nearby the clothes there's suspicious looking duct tape because
01:20:16
it's suspicious as a fucking duct tape in your bloody clothes isn't suspicious looking
01:20:21
they're like look we can explain all this away clearly clearly you're driving out here the heat
01:20:27
got to you yeah you cut your finger duct tape detect tape is suspicious yeah duct tape on its
01:20:35
own laying on the side of the road scares the living shit out of me absolutely this duct tape
01:20:39
was in the shape of a, like, a figure eight. So it was duct tape that looked like
01:20:45
Super suspicious. Put together handcuffs. Oh, no. So that poor road worker, who I hope to God he wasn't by himself out there,
01:20:53
because then that's even, then an eagle screams in the distance, and you're like,
01:20:56
this is the scariest thing of all time. But he grabs all that shit, or he calls the cops,
01:21:00
they come, and they find another piece of duct tape nearby that has long black hairs on it.
01:21:06
Oh, no. So they start looking into what this could mean. And the police in the beginning in this crime story show were talking about how they thought it was children's clothing.
01:21:17
So they were freaking out and like it looked really bad. They start looking up missing persons reports, recent missing persons reports to see if anything compares.
01:21:28
and it turned out that there was a missing persons report filed for a woman named
01:21:36
Gurley Chu Hassenkopf Hassenkopf with a T at the end so she was a Malaysian bank teller
01:21:43
35 years old, very well liked very responsible had a lot of friends at the bank and when she didn't show up for work
01:21:54
they immediately knew something was wrong because she was super responsible but also because she had recently filed for divorce and her and she had told everyone at the bank my husband has been threatening my life and like she basically told them she was really scared yeah and that her husband wanted to kill her so the second she doesn't show up they immediately call the cops they immediately to like take all the action they need yeah I also think this is just my opinion but it seems like because she was she was from Malaysia so she didn't have I don't think she had a lot of family
01:22:28
here so i think her friends at the bank were like if we don't do it who yeah we'll do it for her yeah
01:22:34
which god bless them thank god um and i have to say i really like the name girly it's just really
01:22:41
cute it is but then compared to the horrible things i'm about to talk about it's awful so
01:22:46
um just this this is the all all part of the true crime world uh so they the police go to
01:22:54
girly chews apartment and um they find three damp stains on the carpeting and they find blood
01:23:02
stains on her couch and the whole place smells like bleach oh so they're like ding ding ding
01:23:08
all red flags um and what they do and they talk about it in this episode of crime and crime story
01:23:15
whatever it's called um crime stopper stories crime stories it's crime stories crime stories
01:23:22
You know, two words that we know. They're easy words. It's not hard to remember.
01:23:27
And yet here we are. But they talk about how the best move that the cops made in this entire case was in that moment.
01:23:36
Instead of cutting out a swath of the carpet where they were worried about, they pulled the entire carpet out and took it to the lab.
01:23:43
They never do that. They took an apartment's width and length of carpet. And they were just like, all of it goes.
01:23:49
which is so cool because then they have everything so this was Gurley Chu new apartment after leaving her husband who when she said she was leaving him went crazy on her told her that he could make her disappear and um when she finally actually got that apartment
01:24:08
left their apartment was when she found him loosening the tires on her car oh no she thought
01:24:15
she's like finds him doing that runs to the neighbor's house and then goes and is like
01:24:19
in hiding essentially so she gets a new apartment um they the cops know that she would have never
01:24:26
let him into that apartment and so they know that when they're looking for trace evidence on that
01:24:30
carpeting um that that's going to be a key thing cool which is like all of that is just like
01:24:36
cop stuff love it um also so one of the main reasons that she filed for divorce they got
01:24:43
married in 1995. Okay. Three. Three, I mean. 1993. That's what I meant. 1995, three.
01:24:54
They met in the early 90s at SeaWorld. How? Cute. How? No, but not cute. I mean, also, it's bad for orcas, but how do you meet someone at SeaWorld?
01:25:06
Hey, hi. Are you going to finish that? Can I have some of your fish and chips? Are you going to finish that whale burger?
01:25:13
um just working just work in the food court at sea world yeah they meet um they get married in
01:25:21
1993 because her husband a man named and i'm not kidding daizen hassen koft jesus um he is
01:25:32
he tells her that he's a geneticist and a doctor and um uh that he is helps people who have cancer
01:25:41
He has a very advanced, like, what do you call it? An advanced, like, serum that can cure cancer.
01:25:53
And that he can't get it. Like, he had this whole story about it. And he actually, I don't know if he told her, but later on he told people that, because of course he was a con man.
01:26:02
He was not any of the things that I've said. He told people he cured his own cancer.
01:26:08
And that's how he knew that the serum worked. and that's how he sold it to people
01:26:12
who were dying of cancer who he built for thousands and hundreds of thousands of dollars
01:26:18
so he's an insane person but he is like a con man extraordinaire the cops at one point in this special talk about
01:26:26
how he actually at one point joined up with a second con man and conned that con man out of thousands
01:26:33
of dollars. Are you fucking kidding me? So he's like a diabolical lunatic and anyone who's seen this because
01:26:38
this is an old and very famous case he really tries to play um the part of the of the of the
01:26:46
evil when he's finally in court he's really kind of trying to do a richard marmeras charles manson
01:26:52
like i'm the evil genius behind all this stuff why because he just needs a recognition yeah so
01:26:58
he went to college um and he studied uh like science in college but he didn't get into med
01:27:05
school and that's when it turned so he basically it turned into this weird con man fantasy life
01:27:11
as if if I had gone to med school this is what I would have done and these are the things I'm doing
01:27:15
so I'm gonna get some cards printed up and tell everybody that I'm a geneticist right and that I
01:27:21
have he not only told people he had the cure for cancer but he also made a lot of money and met a
01:27:26
lot of women telling them that he had this basically like a fountain of youth serum oh my god and um
01:27:33
in this special one of the best parts one of his ex-girlfriends who he was by the way in he was
01:27:40
engaged to one he was engaged to a couple but he was seeing three other women while he was married
01:27:46
to girly chew and that's what she found out that he was basically all over the map with these women
01:27:52
and she was just like i'm out of here like go fuck yourself and then he went crazy because he was like
01:27:57
oh i thought because you're from malaysia i thought you were going to be subservient and
01:28:02
submissive and like not fight me and just take care of business and she was like go fuck yourself
01:28:06
yeah um that's not a quote so the girlfriend uh who daizen hasen coughed um oh by the way his real
01:28:16
name is armando chavez a lot of names happening he made up the name daizen hasen cough because
01:28:23
he believed that germans and japanese are the master races which is a very new approach to
01:28:30
suit to supremacies um so he made up a name that was an amalgam of both i bet you he owned like
01:28:38
nazi memorabilia or something like so obnoxious or something like that yeah probably yeah but he's
01:28:43
armando chavez like he has no business being in the world of who's the master race
01:28:47
like buddy this works against you in every way yeah in in his claim of having this anti-aging
01:28:54
treatment that also eventually you come to find out that he was also telling people it would make
01:28:59
you immortal what that's where i'm getting off of this i couldn't train oh you were you were on
01:29:04
until then absolutely you were good with bilking cancer patients no i was i thought it worked oh
01:29:10
now i don't think it works yet here's why else you you won't think it works okay and this is
01:29:15
according to julie mcguire who's in the special and she is she is has a story to tell um but she
01:29:22
immediately like on the outset it was like i have this youth serum and if you if you do this
01:29:27
you know it's gonna make you it's gonna she said it's he said it stopped cell growth like entirely
01:29:33
which i don't think would be good for you that's like dead then your cells are dead yeah i think
01:29:37
that means you die yeah but he eventually let her in on his secret which was that the drug he was
01:29:46
giving her was created by aliens to stop cell growth so that they could travel from planet to
01:29:51
planet and not have it impact them and um and you imagine if you like her and you were like here i am i on board with this second this anti thing got it and then someone this person like let me let you know the secret
01:30:05
and yeah it's like aliens and you're like oh shit yeah it's almost like that's when you make that
01:30:11
decision and am i am i just gonna go all in on this and like push all my chips into the middle
01:30:15
because at this point i can't be like i can't then i look fucking stupid if i'm like guess what i got
01:30:21
out of this thing because he ended up being crazy and all your friends like we knew he was crazy
01:30:24
yeah you have to double down on it but you have to remember this you never have to double down
01:30:29
you can always get out of it because think of any friend you have they've always had a worse
01:30:33
boyfriend than the boyfriend you're talking about and also who gives a fuck what anybody thinks
01:30:37
you got to get out of that shit you're allowed fuck-ups in your life and it's okay even at
01:30:41
julie mcguire's age where she was like and and she didn't actually when she's like talking about
01:30:48
this in this special she clearly knew he was insane because you know i don't think she thought
01:30:54
the way she was saying it anyway maybe she did but she still went along with it well she wanted
01:30:59
them beauty treatments girl but there is no magic here except for botox i have to keep telling you
01:31:05
why must i keep telling everyone why must i preach the word but also they found out that his his
01:31:12
magic treatment was vitamin b12 and he was he's making women pay thousands and thousands of dollars
01:31:18
Oh, man. So he also had fathered a son with a woman in Canada in 1996. These are all the things Girlie Chew was finding out.
01:31:27
And he was, oh, yeah, engaged to three different women while he was married to her.
01:31:32
Jesus. Including women. No, no, no. He's short and he looks like a character actor.
01:31:39
Did he pretend to be? It's just that. What were they after? I think he has. Not that.
01:31:43
That was a horrible thing to say. What was the attraction? I think he has that that sparkly glow of a psychotic person.
01:31:53
I mean, honestly, they're fascinating. Like if this guy's the kind of guy, he was super smart.
01:31:58
So unquote, he has that psychotic. He has that sparkly glow of a psychotic person is my favorite.
01:32:04
When you meet a truly crazy person, it's a breath of fresh air when they're like, I'm not crazy in the way that I need to be hospitalized or medical help.
01:32:13
But I'm a diabolical. And I believe my own bullshit. Yes. And I believe that I can trick you.
01:32:19
Like there's an energy to that. And also when con men are trying to con you, you get focused attention.
01:32:25
Yeah. Which lots of people want and don't get. So like suddenly you have like, even if it, no matter what the face looks like or the height or the weight or whatever.
01:32:34
Yeah, you're right. You have a person that's like kind of like. Dialed into your shit.
01:32:38
Yeah. I think you hung the moon and suddenly you're like, maybe I did. I don't know.
01:32:42
Give me some of that B12. I just kind of wondered if I hung the moon. Because I felt special.
01:32:46
I've always felt special. I've always felt like I've had this gift. So you've got to be careful.
01:32:51
Okay. If people are like, you're really special. Yeah. That's fucking, that's the biggest red flag of all.
01:32:56
Because you're fucking not. And neither am I. None of us are. Amen. And AA. That's what you learn in AA.
01:33:06
Okay. So that's when girly's like, oh, you're, you're engaged to three other women.
01:33:11
I've got to go. Peace. Goodbye. Okay, so when the police go to interview Daizen, and I might be pronouncing that slightly wrong.
01:33:19
It's not real, so it's okay. Thank you. It's his idea of what a Japanese name is.
01:33:26
It sounds like a bad VCR that you would have bought in 1987. I was thinking the exact electronic and electronic.
01:33:33
High five that foot. You high five my foot. They go to Daizen's house. His house is empty.
01:33:39
they find out he moved out the day before she uh girly chew went missing um and they so they put
01:33:47
out an apb for his now oh points bulletin i love that right for his car he's a fake doctor
01:33:55
fake though also a con man also a a polygamist or whatever you call that a bigamist if you've
01:34:04
married tons of people what kind of what kind of car color and make do you think he drove oh god a
01:34:09
fucking red trans am it was a white isuzu there was no way to it was too obscure but i just thought
01:34:15
it'd be fun to play a fun guess the car game that way i would have guessed like subaru or something
01:34:20
for some reason when they said in the special they put out the all points bulletin for his
01:34:25
white isuzu i laughed out loud in my tv room a tv room it's separate than the dining and living
01:34:32
I guess I don't know what an Isuzu looks like. Well, I was thinking a Isuzu Trooper, which looks like the poor man's Jeep.
01:34:39
It's just a family car. No, it's kind of like a, well, the one I'm thinking of is almost like,
01:34:44
I'm going to college and my dad wanted to give me this. Okay. Okay. We don't know what that's like.
01:34:53
Oh, I have us. Okay, so here's, when they're searching his place, they find out that he belonged to a UFO believers club.
01:35:02
Okay. And so they have to go down to the UFO Believers Club and start interviewing some people.
01:35:06
That's got to be a fun day. This is the thing where I want the special. Like if we start really making the kind of true crime specials that everybody wants.
01:35:15
Yeah. It's you get all those cops together and you're like, so tell us about the UFO Believers Club.
01:35:20
Tell us about each and every in detail. Yes. About them. Because you know, there are some people who were wonderful and hilarious and brilliant.
01:35:28
And then, you know, there's some people who are like the people who are about to meet.
01:35:31
And who want to keep like, I know more. I can give you information. Those fucking nosy Nellies.
01:35:35
And then there were some people who were like, join me on Saturn. So they go talk to the people.
01:35:44
And one of the first people they meet is a woman named Linda Henning, who they later find out he was engaged to.
01:35:50
Of course he was. So Linda Henning, they don't think much of her at first. Linda Henning, and we all probably know this, but if you haven't seen any specials.
01:35:57
I don't know this one. Oh, you don't? I don't know this. Oh, yay. Tell me everything.
01:36:03
Because you will love Linda Henning. I highly recommend that you go back. There's video of her talking.
01:36:09
She is one of those people. I can't go back. You can't find it. There's individual videos of her being interviewed by the news because she got arrested.
01:36:18
Okay. And she is, I won't diagnose her. Do it. If it was my mom, my mom would be like, oh, she's gone organic.
01:36:29
I think she might be, she might be schizophrenic. But she has a lot of those things where she looks like the woman who's the star, the stewardess
01:36:37
or the air hostess in the airplane. Her name's Julie something with the long hair.
01:36:42
She's like a 70s, 80s actress. She looks almost exactly like that woman. She's like actress, beautiful, big hair, you know, like, and she had, she's of course
01:36:53
from Hollywood. She had been a model and then she was a fashion designer. Now she's in New Mexico.
01:36:58
with her fucking government UFO conspiracies. And she is a serious believer. So they keep on pulling up these clips of her
01:37:06
holding up a drawing that she drew herself going, these are the lizard people that run our government.
01:37:13
And she's completely serious and seems almost like a newscaster, like convincing.
01:37:18
What if she's right? She could be right. There's other people that think this. It's not just her.
01:37:23
All right. But she has an intensity and she's also twitchy. Oh, no. Yeah, so she's got a little bit of that, like, you can see her resetting herself to normalcy that I was enjoying watching.
01:37:36
You can't take someone seriously who's spouting about aliens and twitching at the same time.
01:37:42
Those two things don't go hand in hand. I have to say this. The twitching was subtle, but that was my, you know, when I'm collecting all the information so I can do the one-woman show about her.
01:37:52
There will be subtle twitching in it. um also she so it was her theory is like lizard people run the government and also uh
01:38:03
masons are all lizard people okay which i'm interested in like tell me what you got i see it
01:38:09
but all she did was in this thing she had a try she had drawn a triangle on a piece of paper and
01:38:14
she'd put a circle inside and she went this is the mason symbol oh my god and i was just like no
01:38:19
it's not actually it's a pyramid with an eye is she the one who like will describe on the dollar
01:38:24
bill like what's inside of all this what every little thing means and then when you fold it this
01:38:28
way and you see the little picture that comes out yeah i'm fucking down i am down and ready for that
01:38:32
get me a beer like let's this is how the lizard people are communicating through our money right
01:38:37
where it's like well talk to me about it folded up symbols on money what and then what yeah and
01:38:43
then what are you gonna do then fold it and show it to me okay why don't we just talk all right
01:38:48
so UFO Believers Club. I'm calling it that. I don't know what the actual name is.
01:38:55
Oh, okay. But I mean, it was people who got together because they were like, this is real.
01:38:59
No, I dig it. When she joined the UFO Believers Club and then Dyson joined it as well,
01:39:05
she was engaged to be married to a different person. She immediately broke up with him
01:39:09
and they started this love affair with Dyson. They bonded over their passionate belief
01:39:15
in the impending alien takeover of our planet. And chicken wings. And their love of chicken wings.
01:39:21
I want to put that into the script. And chicken wings. Wait, you like chicken wings?
01:39:28
I love chicken wings. I've never met anyone that likes chicken wings. Wait, ranch or blue cheese?
01:39:33
Oh my god, it has to be blue cheese. Yeah! Marry me! Okay. So, they go to interview Linda Henning.
01:39:42
Okay. And because everyone in the UFO Believers group is like, Oh, Diazen's really good friends with Linda Henning.
01:39:48
and this other guy, Bill, they'll know. Go talk to them. Well, Linda Henning at her house,
01:39:57
it seems totally normal, calm, kind of low key, but very quickly and start beginning to talk to these investigators,
01:40:05
she gives Dizen an alibi for the night that girly she went missing and basically tried to tell them she was with him all night
01:40:12
except for one hour. And they're like, okay, well, that's a bit advanced for this conversation.
01:40:18
so later on they go to bring her in for questioning and she gives when she goes over
01:40:24
questioning she gives them hair sample a dna sample um but then when they ask about daizen
01:40:29
she kind of acts like she doesn't know him that well she can't she's mispronouncing his name
01:40:35
um calling him d or doc instead of his name because she says she doesn't know how to pronounce
01:40:40
it which i relate to um but uh she claims she has no idea where he is and that she's never
01:40:47
met girly chew doesn't know where she is doesn't know anything about her um but then when they talk
01:40:54
to linda's co-workers they find out that she's told them her and dize and are about to get married
01:41:00
so uh when the police go back around to talk to linda and ask her some follow-up questions at her
01:41:07
home she's not there and she they're calling her saying go ahead and give us a call she's avoiding
01:41:14
them so then they start surveilling her because they're like what's going on she's checked into a
01:41:19
hotel and then she moves hotels and then checks into another hotel and she's basically like
01:41:24
trying not to be found or seen but which what i love about that is that like it makes it sound
01:41:29
like and the cops were following her as she did it i'm just like we see you yes you just went from
01:41:34
a daze into a motel six this is not good criminal behavior um okay so they search her car um
01:41:44
Oh, sorry. When they go into her, they get a search warrant. They go into her house.
01:41:48
Her house is filled with UFO conspiracy art that she has made herself. Oh I bet it gorgeous You know what It reminds me of you know when you in like high school chemistry class and you start doodling and you like wait I good at drawing That what it all looks like
01:42:05
It's kind of like it looks like women in catsuits, lizards with half-human faces, but it's all like in a blue ballpoint pen.
01:42:16
And she thinks it's important, too. Someone's communicating with her through it.
01:42:19
She very much believes that this is real. And it is, it's, you can tell that it is a big problem for her.
01:42:28
Like, it's a concern and it's not, it's, she's not fucking around. It's overwhelming.
01:42:32
And it's not, yeah, she's like, she believes that our planet's being taken over by aliens.
01:42:38
She's one of the only people that knows. It's classic schizophrenic, like paranoid schizophrenia, but I won't, but I won't label it.
01:42:45
But I like to theorize about people's mental status. It's fun. I just said status like I was British.
01:42:50
I don't know why. What's happening? But yeah, her house is filled with this art.
01:42:57
And also she's got a lot of colored art sand in her garage, which is really odd.
01:43:02
They showed a picture of her garage. And it's like, you know that thing where you're like, you know what I'm going to get into?
01:43:07
Yeah. I'm going to get into art sand. I'm going to fill bottles with different colored sand.
01:43:11
I'm going to sell it at the flea market. But it's like a bunch of crates full of it.
01:43:17
So she didn't just get one kit. No. She was like into it. If you're really going to get into it, you have to spend $500 on it.
01:43:23
That you have to go to Joanne Fabrics all day. Yeah. Yeah. You have to make a problem.
01:43:29
So. I did that once with CrossFit with Needlepoint. Did you really? I mean, I didn't spend that much money on it, but I was like, I'm going to get into this.
01:43:36
I have to. No, I don't. I want, same with me and paint by numbers. Oh, that's fun.
01:43:41
I'm going back. Do it. I think paint by numbers. Here's my only problem. if I'm going to sit at home and do nothing
01:43:47
I'm going to do that A. watching TV and B. laying down I'm not going to do a project
01:43:53
because I love to lay down that's my project what's a project you could do while you lay down
01:43:58
sleep dream have some dreams so they go to her house they find all this crazy fucking shit
01:44:07
that makes them go she's not your average member of the UFO Believers Club she's taken the UFO Believers Club
01:44:15
and she's in like a Harrison Ford movie level crisis with the UFO Believers where it's like impending doom
01:44:22
very sad and awful sorry I laughed no that's alright also the art is terrible I'm sorry I laughed
01:44:32
wishing her well no you don't have to she did bad things then they search her car
01:44:39
they find out it's just been washed and that there's a receipt for having her tires balanced.
01:44:45
And the cops immediately think the area on that highway outside of Albuquerque where they found Gurley Chew's bloody clothes was all crazy bumpy roads
01:44:56
while road workers were out there. And if she drove out there, she would have to get her tires rebalanced when she came back.
01:45:03
So they basically, the more they look into stuff, they find out that when they look at um linda henning's bank records linda henning who had
01:45:16
claimed uh to have not know girly chew and never met her and know nothing about her
01:45:21
had actually switched banks and had started going to girly choose branch of her bank and girly had
01:45:29
been her teller at that bank several times so she was like spying on her she was up in her business
01:45:35
big time and absolutely knew who she was. Uh-oh. Don't lie to the cops, ding-dongs.
01:45:42
You fucking lizard. You're the lizard person. I mean, just in general. Especially when you're not going to be that obvious about it.
01:45:49
If you're your bank teller, don't fucking lie to the cops about it. Well, also, I guess it's different now because there are
01:45:55
cameras everywhere now and stuff, but it's just that when you see those people who, the people who
01:46:01
make up crimes to do and thinking they're going to get away with it because they think they're smarter than cops
01:46:07
where it's like, you're so not though. You're like one of the most stupid people we know,
01:46:12
but you think you're smarter than all. Like the people who think they're smarter than the cops
01:46:15
and can get away with shit are the most idiotic people. Yes. That makes, sorry, quick sidebar.
01:46:22
My friend Bridger Winnegar and I went and saw a movie called American Animals. Did you see The Impostor, that documentary?
01:46:29
It's the same director. It's really fucking good. And it's a true story. About which one?
01:46:36
Of these guys that tried to steal these really rare, valuable Audubon books from a college.
01:46:43
And they were like college age themselves. Nerds. It's a really good movie. You have to go see it.
01:46:48
Everyone has to go see it. Okay, anyway. Back to this piece of paper. So then, and I'm not sure exactly where this happened in the timeline, but I'm throwing it in here.
01:46:58
Our friend Julie McGuire, who was getting the beauty treatments and was told that she was going to live forever, one of his girlfriends, called the police and told them that when Girlie Chu was missing, Dai Zen told her he was livid about that he was going to have to pay Girlie $60,000 in their divorce settlement.
01:47:22
And he was like out of his mind, livid about it. And he said... Motive. What? sorry motive yes i thought you said noted i was like all right you're listening good um
01:47:36
he actually said to julie that that girly would never see a dime of that money that she was
01:47:42
supposed to be getting because she was going to disappear and don't do right and then julie
01:47:47
said to him what are you talking about people like you can't make people disappear the cops
01:47:53
find them like that Yeah And he said to her not if they dissected Shut up dude Which is also but also that such a weird anyway And it also not Then she like no yeah also if they dissected
01:48:06
Right, and just in general, you're not going to get away with it. But anyway, we love Julie McGuire because she's like, guess what?
01:48:13
That guy was my boyfriend, but this is bad, bad, bad. Totally good for her. So then the lab comes back with some results on that full apartment carpet that they pulled out of Gurley's apartment.
01:48:27
They had small amounts of blood evidence that they had found. And this was the reason they were like that they would have just cut out this strip that was just those three bloodstains because that blood was Gurley chews.
01:48:41
But when they pull the whole carpet, they find bloodstains and the blood belongs to Linda Henning.
01:48:46
what yes they and they weren't expecting it either so they're just like holy shit
01:48:51
so uh they now she's indicted for murder oh my god um daizen hazenkopf is nowhere to be found
01:49:00
can't then no one knows where he is um then they police get a tip from one of his neighbors saying
01:49:05
she had just gotten a call where he threatened her and then hung up and so the cops are like
01:49:12
dials star 69 and so she does no and yes and it turns out he's in south carolina what so the cops
01:49:20
go arrest him yes so the in when i was in high school when whatever it was att or whoever did it
01:49:28
came out with that package where you could get call waiting call forwarding and start star 69
01:49:33
it changed lives yeah it changed everything it was a really big deal you couldn't print call anymore
01:49:39
yes do you want to hear a yes celebrity secret yes when i very first moved to town
01:49:46
in 1994 or five four um i had a big crush on jack black who was in our social circle yeah
01:49:55
and one time i called somebody gave me his phone number i don't know why and i called it and then
01:50:01
when he answered i hung up you did not and he fucking started no he didn't and i said you know
01:50:08
that he was doing that or did you just answer the phone like it was normal i answered the phone
01:50:12
because i think i was expecting a call from somewhere else okay and he didn't think that
01:50:16
he had star 69 so you just picked it up i picked it up and then he goes did you just call me and i
01:50:21
went it was a mistake and then i i acted mad and was like yeah it was a mistake and then i just
01:50:27
just hung up that's the perfect when you act mad like you're annoyed with someone else
01:50:32
yeah and what'd he do yeah i don't know it was you i waited we weren't that we didn't i didn't
01:50:39
know him that well at the time so i just like held my breath and waited it out and then never
01:50:45
never heard and then the next time ever since then you've been weird he's like she's always
01:50:49
weird around me i don't know what i did to piss her off no no no i think then we got to know each
01:50:53
other after that and he was around and i it was that kind of thing where i was like maybe i did
01:50:58
call your house and hang up maybe i did maybe that's how i express my intense love jack black
01:51:04
who talk about i don't think he's psychotic but the first time i met him it was like the whole
01:51:09
rest of the room went away wow he's so dynamic well he's also so talented it was like they had
01:51:15
just done tenacious d yeah you know three songs everyone's like what who are these people and then
01:51:20
just to talk to him in person he's just got charisma coming out like where of his telephone
01:51:27
private this has been jack black corner i don't know why i'm talking about this i'm trying to tell
01:51:34
a story okay so they go to they go bring him out of south carolina his perfect hiding place star 69
01:51:41
him out jack plays one of the cops that pulls him out of south carolina um he had only been on the
01:51:48
lamb for three weeks already living with a woman in well he was in south carolina this is what i'm
01:51:54
talking about you gotta it's like everyone we all need group therapy to like get ourselves up that
01:52:01
we don't need guys like this yeah and or just be a guy like that like what do you do to get to be
01:52:06
the person that can be on the lamp first of all you have all this stuff to do of like avoiding
01:52:10
the police yeah and then you kick up a relationship with some stranger there's time for a little
01:52:14
You make time. I think that's what... Georgia just went, mmm, and then brought that can of wine right up to her lips.
01:52:28
Tell me about it. Girl, tell me about being on the lam and in relationships. All right.
01:52:34
Sorry. So they find when he's arrested, he has Gurley Chu's address book and a piece of her jewelry.
01:52:44
two things that she had not left at her house when she left him two things that she had on her
01:52:49
person so they were like this is evidence yeah um they also in the place where he was staying in
01:52:56
south carolina they found guns and they found a steam cleaner with human blood in it trace evidence
01:53:02
of human blood you stupid idiot so they're they bring him back to new mexico he's charged with
01:53:08
making interstate threats because that's the only concrete evidence that they have they don't nothing
01:53:13
nothing ties to the murder to hold him but they have him yeah they can hold him for for for getting
01:53:18
star 69 calling his neighbor and being like hey don't tell anyone hang up um all right so they
01:53:29
start looking around the area going back to search because they're the basically now they need the
01:53:35
body girly choose body they have to find what has happened to her so that they can tie him in because
01:53:42
they're like this guy's they like him for it as cops like to say he's good for it but they have no
01:53:48
evidence so when they go out to that desolate highway outside of fucking albuquerque the area on the sides of the highway is are is dotted with mines abandoned mine shafts And they said there so many out there
01:54:06
And some of them are so deep that you throw a rock down and you never hear anything.
01:54:11
What are at the bottom of those? Right. So the police tried to search some of them near where the clothes were found.
01:54:19
But after a while, they're just like, well, we didn't find anything. And you can't, they're not even mapped.
01:54:23
There are so many mines out there. Which I just, that idea of that type of police force is like, that's nauseatingly.
01:54:30
Yeah. Just endless searching. God. Just the thought that you could throw something down one of those and it'll never be seen again.
01:54:38
It's like, it makes me feel empty. Yeah. It's very, it's very bad. Although, if you had, say, say you wrote out a story about an embarrassing thing you did to Jack Black.
01:54:50
you could ball that up and throw it down into mine and not say it on a podcast but what's the fun in that i once left can i want me to yes okay your eyes just lit up
01:55:01
maybe here in my shame spiral i'll give you one i'll give you a good one my friend and i
01:55:07
called each other we were on the phone with each other i just dumped a dude i was like 19 i just
01:55:11
like broken up with a guy and we were on the phone and i was like let's listen to his like
01:55:15
his voicemail like his outgoing voicemail like was our song and i was like look he changed his
01:55:22
song let's call and you can listen so we called and we listened to the voicemail and then we like
01:55:27
we're like oh my god i can't believe it like blah blah i just feel bad and like i just don't like i
01:55:32
wasn't attracted to him like just like talking talking shit and then it was like your message
01:55:35
has been sent no i forgot to hang up after we listened to his fucking outgoing voicemail
01:55:42
how awful is that wait can i just ask and you don't have to answer honestly were you on drugs no i was not on drugs just stupid just 19
01:55:54
people don't appreciate how these days no one uses the phone yeah ever well it's the thing of
01:56:02
texting the wrong person yes it's texting the person you're thinking on social media
01:56:05
They're faving their thing from three months ago. Embarrassing thing. But God, there was so much bad behavior around answering machines in my past.
01:56:16
Also, one time I was super stoned in my apartment and I was listening to my messages.
01:56:21
And my sister left me such a long message that halfway through, I forgot it was a message.
01:56:25
And I started fighting with her and I got really mad. I was like, stop talking over me.
01:56:29
What are you doing? And I was like, there's this whole thing. And then it was like, all right, talk to you later.
01:56:33
beep oh my god um send us your embarrassing stories to my favorite murder at gmail
01:56:41
what horrible thing have you done on an answering machine yeah around phones around texting around
01:56:47
and you can make them modern but the i guess texting ones are good yeah modern is fine
01:56:52
and yeah go ahead okay my favorite murder at gmail.com.com okay go ahead so and then guess what happened tell me i'm the suspense i'm just trying to read okay okay so
01:57:07
they get more evidence back so it's this trace evidence that they're getting off of this humongous
01:57:12
piece of carpet and what they uh they find a single hair from dyson on that carpet a single
01:57:21
hair but they're like okay this is enough so we know he was there it's not gonna hold up in court
01:57:26
but now we know we've got to tie him to it. But they also find colored sand, glitter,
01:57:35
and dyed animal hair and gray human hair. So they're like, other people were in that apartment.
01:57:45
Yeah. So it wasn't just girly chew, wasn't just daizen, wasn't even just Linda. And then they find lizard skin.
01:57:53
and then they find the entire bush family photo album that's a big theory that the bush family
01:58:00
are lizard people oh pass it on please they uh okay so then they find a picture that linda has
01:58:10
drawn in linda's uh house um they find a bunch of love letters between linda and daizen but then
01:58:18
they also find a drawing of a warrior queen dressed for battle against aliens. Let me guess, that's her. Yeah.
01:58:26
In a letter to Dizen. And in the picture she's wearing like, it's one of the cat, she looks like Catwoman
01:58:32
essentially, but with like slightly different decorations. Okay. And she's holding
01:58:38
a sword. In the ceiling of Linda Henning's garage at her house, they find a ninja sword with blood on it.
01:58:46
and it's not enough blood. They couldn't pull DNA, but they could tell it had been cleaned
01:58:54
and that there was trace amounts of blood. Also, the investigators were like, a samurai sword is a warrior sword for war battle.
01:59:04
A ninja sword is for assassins. So it's smaller, thinner blade. I don't know much about it,
01:59:11
so I'm not going to say anything wrong. Get the sword people mad at me. butt uh but then they go okay so this is here let's re-look at the shirt that we found that
01:59:21
belonged to girly chew that had blood on it and start comparison comparing comparison no
01:59:26
sizing compare size it did she wipe the blade off with the shirt would that the stab wounds
01:59:32
were from that sword that is what they were trying testing to try to see and as they do that and
01:59:39
they're re-examining Gurley Chu's shirt that they had found, the lab finds Dyson Hasenkov's
01:59:46
blood and saliva on one shoulder of the shirt. So now they have evidence that he
01:59:52
was there when Gurley Chu was murdered. Oh my god, poor Gurley. And the other person that is there,
01:59:58
because they go back to the U group and they interview them yep and they find out from them that there was a third person in
02:00:06
daizen and linda's little group and it's a guy named bill miller he was a member of the ufo group
02:00:12
um he was an older man he was a survivalist and an outdoorsman and the three of them linda bill
02:00:20
and daizen used to drive to the ufo believers meetings together and they also did stuff on
02:00:25
the weekends and they show this picture i bet they were the most boring people to hang out with
02:00:29
well i bet the conversation was hard to follow they seem like the kind of people you're just like
02:00:35
guys we were just talking about movies and now now we're back into this alien takeover shit
02:00:40
following your alien takeover shit but this is like what are you warrior princesses this is crazy
02:00:46
how about we do one weird topic per car ride you can't just pick a bunch of them yeah don't just
02:00:50
list off linda linda hold on linda you keep switching topics um there's a picture of the
02:00:58
three of them at like it looks like they're at the river together oh my god and they look so
02:01:03
fucking normal and it's that is another wave that i got of like i think this is personally for me
02:01:08
the appeal of true crime these are the people that live next door to you these are the people
02:01:13
that are standing at the river taking a fucking picture and meanwhile they have kidnapped murdered
02:01:19
and hid in the body of a woman. Oh, my God. It's just so goddamn sinister. The banality of evil.
02:01:28
Look it up. Okay. So, okay. So, it turns out that Dizen had told Linda that he was a 7,000-year-old space alien,
02:01:39
that it had been on the planet since before these newer aliens showed up. Okay. And the newer aliens were the ones that are trying to take over.
02:01:49
Okay. And he was actually here, put on the planet. But he's the good guy. He's the good alien that was here to keep it from happening.
02:01:55
Okay. And he said the only way to keep these new aliens from taking over is to kill their queen.
02:02:02
And do you know who the queen is? The queen is his wife, Girly Chew. He took advantage of her kind of crazy brain.
02:02:08
A hundred percent. Oh, my God. Which is the classic con man thing. it's classic con man of what's your weakness what's the what's the thing that that's got you
02:02:18
all turned around oh me too i can't believe i'm just like you me too we're a team oh that's so
02:02:24
awful it's very sad and very crazy so he's like he's high level con man uh psychopath so she
02:02:32
wouldn't have killed girly if she didn't think that she was uh like she needed to do it yeah
02:02:39
to rid this planet of the alien takeover oh my god yes and she also well but there's more to it
02:02:46
okay so the trial starts so they have enough to bring him to trial okay and when when he goes to
02:02:52
make his plea he surprises everybody and pleads guilty good and they in this special they talk
02:02:57
about how um new mexico had just put someone to death and they think that that while he was being
02:03:03
held he was like oh shit that could happen to me yeah so he was just like fine you got me
02:03:07
but he would not tell them where girly chews body was he says that he and a man named bill miller who's the third guy
02:03:17
from the ufo believers club they did it and that linda henning had nothing to do with it
02:03:23
he said that he didn't even that bill miller wanted to kill a person that he was
02:03:29
excited to do it he'd always wanted to hunt a human being and that he didn't even have
02:03:33
to pay him to help kill his wife yes then Linda Henning's cellmate comes forward
02:03:42
and she says that Linda she just went up to Linda and was like what did you do with that woman's body
02:03:50
and without words Linda made a gesture indicating that they had eaten her this is the craziest
02:03:59
story I've ever heard it's beyond how have I never watched this one also you have to watch it because
02:04:05
you have to see this guy kind of in action. He's like when he's doing the perp walk,
02:04:10
he's laughing really loud. Like he's doing those things where he knows everything is a decision being made
02:04:16
about what like the impact is going to be. He's been a good cult leader. Yes. I think a hundred percent.
02:04:22
Okay. I mean, he's thousands of dollars. If you have leukemia, you have to be pretty good.
02:04:30
The con man has to be pretty good to convince you to spend like all the rest of your money
02:04:34
on a cancer curing, like that's crazy so she mimes eating them but she i mean that's just what that woman said okay
02:04:45
and it could have been who knows what it meant uh daizen hasenkov gets sentenced to life in prison
02:04:51
thank god um but but they in getting him to agree to plea guilty the death sentence got taken off
02:04:59
the table okay linda goes to trial linda henning denies all invite involvement in girly's murder
02:05:05
she says quote and this is one of the videos that you can watch and this is one of those ones where she keeps twitch resetting every third sentence I innocent I never done anything to cause the death of a two or four creature
02:05:20
It's always been my belief from day one that the blood was planted. I wasn't there.
02:05:25
Nope. And then she also says, in every past life I've been murdered, so what am I up for now?
02:05:31
The death penalty. Like, isn't that ironic, Alanis Morissette? Oh, honey, you're fucking batshit.
02:05:38
She's cray. when she went to trial they they had the death penalty on the table for her way yeah um and then
02:05:46
her friend testifies and this woman's testimony is in this special so i'm sure you can see it
02:05:51
somewhere she says that linda told her that she that linda had been appointed the queen of the
02:05:58
world and that it was her responsibility to defend the world from other queens who are trying to take
02:06:04
over from they're coming from other planets to take over if your friend said that to you over
02:06:08
like mimosas i'd just be like you fucking nut anyway i'm going out of town for a while do you
02:06:16
want to stay at my house with my four my four-legged animals or two-legged animals whatever
02:06:22
i i'm almost positive that when i wouldn't do stuff like say chores around the house my mom
02:06:29
would call me the queen of the world but that i might be rewriting that just because it's so funny
02:06:33
but the idea that you would turn you'd turn to your friend be like look i gotta tell you something
02:06:36
I know. I know things have been weird lately, but I'm the queen of the world. Not America.
02:06:43
The whole fucking planet. Oh, that icy chill you'd get when you're like, I need to turn my friend over to the hospital.
02:06:50
Yes. How are we going to do this? Yes. I'm going to back away. Hey, you know where they have a great fro-yo place?
02:06:56
In the hospital. At the psych ward. The hospital. Follow me. They have the best frozen yogurt, but you have to commit yourself to a 48-hour or 8-hour hole.
02:07:05
But it'll be worth it. Yeah. And then I crush up some fucking anti-psychotics into her pro-yo.
02:07:12
Here's the other thing, too. If you think you're the queen of the world, and I mean in this way where you feel like you have to kill other people because you have to defend the world,
02:07:20
don't take that all on by yourself. Commit yourself to a 48-hour cycle and figure out what's actually going on.
02:07:27
Get some other voices in there. Get some, do you think I'm the queen of the world?
02:07:32
No. No. Oh, sorry. You weren't asking me. Oh, are we fighting? we were doing now we're fighting now i knew you didn't think i was the queen of the world
02:07:43
elvis is an alien but that's a i'm not going to kill anyone over it do you think he's the
02:07:47
king of the world elvis is the king all right okay let's focus please we got to get through this i'm
02:07:57
the one that put my paper all the way down but we need to focus um okay this is a four-hour episode
02:08:02
It really is. So then Dyson Hassinkoff comes to testify at Linda Henning's trial.
02:08:09
Oh, dear. And it's the full show. He's grown out his nails, which he knows is the grossest thing a man can do.
02:08:15
He's smiling like a lunatic. He's just got that thing where it's like, it's very Charles.
02:08:20
It's like poor man's Charles Manson. Yeah, it sounds like it. And he's talking. He does a little speech about how he hopes that Gurley suffered more than anyone on the planet.
02:08:32
Like he does this whole speech about her murder. That's so horrible, but he's doing it with this weird smile and you're just like,
02:08:40
this is all dumb. It's corny. It's like over the top. But he still maintains that Linda Henning had nothing to do with the murder.
02:08:48
And he said that he, he says that he planted Linda's blood in Gurley's apartment to throw off
02:08:57
investigators. Well, investigators are like, yeah, that doesn't throw anybody off.
02:09:02
It's evidence. It leads us directly to you. And also, what they honestly think it was is they think he was setting Linda Henning up for this murder.
02:09:11
They think he was trying to lay that out, and then it was like he got caught, and it was out of his hands.
02:09:17
Which is even sadder, because when Linda Henning talks about Dyson, even after her arrest, she's clearly still in love with him.
02:09:24
Oh, no. Yeah, she thinks he's amazing. She thinks he's the greatest. It's so nuts.
02:09:29
convicted of first degree murder and kidnapping but she doesn't get the death penalty
02:09:35
she gets life in prison and at the time it was the most extensive forensic investigation
02:09:41
in New Mexico history for fuck's sake how have we never heard of this it's so crazy
02:09:45
Bill Miller the third party no charges were ever brought against him a grand jury found that there was not enough
02:09:53
evidence to charge him well I don't like him and he doesn't seem like a nice person
02:09:58
I don't like his profile and the special I saw it a couple times he looks like somebody that would yell at you
02:10:04
like outside of Best Buy yeah yeah yeah and that is the horrible murder of girly Chu
02:10:12
fuck dude thank you for thank you for that I mean thank you and really thank crime stories
02:10:19
for really letting me retell their story and thank you Zoe Clark for reminding me of this I feel like I seen at least three episodes on this That crazy Yeah Because it like fodder
02:10:35
It's like perfect crime show fodder. It's got everything. And it makes me want to join a UFO Believers Club.
02:10:42
It's like, what's going on? Let's do it. Okay. Just to open up our social circle.
02:10:48
What if we accidentally join a cult? It'd be good for the podcast. It would be. people are like get out then they rescue us oh that'd be so fun so nice of them all right
02:10:59
fucking hooray what's the thing that's been making you happy lately well uh nico case's
02:11:08
new album is called hell on it just came out cool it's so fucking good great it's but she's always
02:11:14
perfect i think she's one of those people that suffers from the fact that she from when she first
02:11:20
started going when she was doing like nico case and her boyfriends and her first couple projects
02:11:24
she she's always been so like 10 out of 10 stars perfect that like it's almost like she doesn't
02:11:31
get appreciated enough anymore that's how i feel about there's never like this transcendent one
02:11:35
because they're all like that it's every song she writes you're like how did you think of that lyric
02:11:39
this is the best tune i've ever heard your voice makes me want to cry it's just my favorite that's
02:11:45
amazing also uh courtney barnett has a new album out i love her uh called tell me how you really
02:11:51
feel and it is amazing and one it's such a good album as well one of her songs the chorus of it is
02:11:58
um men are afraid that women will laugh at them women are afraid that men will kill them
02:12:04
that's the oh dear it's such i i'm not sure what the i can't remember what the song is called but
02:12:08
it's such a good album yeah it's really good okay uh yeah okay um mine is uh so i'm trying to get my
02:12:18
fucking brain wrapped around like money matters and like dealing with money and like what to do
02:12:24
with money and like where do you put it if it's not under your mattress like you know so there's
02:12:30
podcasts about it turns out oh that's good yeah and there's one that i found called her money
02:12:35
Matters by Jen Hemphill that she just interviews money experts, but in a way, but it's for women.
02:12:43
And it's, it makes, it makes a lot of sense. And every episode is a different topic. So you can
02:12:49
find the topics that speak to you. And so far, it's what you're curious about. Yeah. So it's
02:12:55
really good. And that sounds great. Yeah, it's, it's simple. It makes it really simple.
02:13:00
You know, that's really smart, too, because it's like, Oprah did that with Suzy Orman,
02:13:03
where it's like, no women, you have to keep your eye on it and you have to be business people.
02:13:08
Yeah. It's important. And so the topics are like stuff about debt and being scared of money and how to have emotional,
02:13:16
not have emotional, it's everything. So if you're like, but I don't want to think about money,
02:13:20
there's like an episode about that. So you have to do it. I see you're looking at me.
02:13:25
I see you looking at me. Georgia, I see you look. I think you're the queen of the world
02:13:28
and I think you're great with money. And I think you have no problems. I mean, because here's the thing about money.
02:13:36
I think women, there's storylines of like, would the women be shopping storylines of like, whatever, I'm upset.
02:13:41
So I have to go shopping or all these things that like you get told that almost like it's like you're playing a part.
02:13:47
Yeah. Instead of like, no, go be a fucking business person. Well, there's also Jen Cesaro who wrote You Are a Badass.
02:13:54
It's You Are a Badass. She also now is one about You Are a Badass at making money.
02:13:59
Oh, good. And it's, you know, it's directed to women, but it's for everyone. But it also is around those things of like, she talks about like, what does money mean
02:14:07
to you? Like, write the first five things down. And it's like based on when you were a kid, all that shit.
02:14:13
So like when I was a kid, we used to go and go in grocery shopping was called let's go
02:14:16
bounce a check because we had no fucking money. And I thought we were going to get chased down in the street and like arrested.
02:14:23
So like your, your, your emotional attachment to money is so deep and it affects everything
02:14:29
in your current life. So just you can get a hold of it as an adult woman and make it work for you.
02:14:36
Yes, and you should and you deserve to. And you'll feel really good about yourself.
02:14:40
That's awesome. Check those out. Oh, you know what I want? Can I just say one more thing?
02:14:44
This is not a fucking hooray, but it's almost just more of a just something to put out there.
02:14:51
Because there was a couple things on Twitter last week and it was a couple things
02:14:57
that were related to people talking to people who didn't like our podcast and one of them was a really well-written kind
02:15:05
of analytical thread about what she thinks about what the podcast means why are you reading this
02:15:10
shit no it's just it came up okay and the other one was somebody who was upset because they heard
02:15:16
somebody on another podcast not liking our podcast and actually adding the person then adding us and
02:15:22
then being like this broke my heart and I think this and I just want to say this first of all I
02:15:28
know that both of those things came from love and they were trying to like communicate like we care
02:15:33
about you and whatever but we don that fine if people we know that this podcast is not for everybody and we not interested in converting people who don like us we don need to do that and we and we fine with it so we certainly don want to hear about it when it happening but on top of that you don need to feel uh like you have to change that situation
02:15:55
or convince anybody of anything like we have our little community and we we're doing great and we're
02:16:01
having a great great about our little community is that it's filled with people who like like
02:16:05
we're each other's um allies in in a thing that not everyone is into and it we don't need to
02:16:13
convince people yeah and they're not they don't need to be that's why we like each other so much
02:16:17
exactly we're the ones who are into it and it's it's like from the beginning when people would be
02:16:21
like oh you have vocal fry or whatever it's like then don't fucking listen to the podcast we don't
02:16:25
give a shit like if you don't like it if somebody doesn't like it you don't have to convince them
02:16:30
of anything you can be like okay cool the end and also i think the the person who was adding the
02:16:37
person who was on a podcast i would like to say this i don't know who the person was i don't the
02:16:41
podcast but especially if it was a woman pause on your need to correct or tell someone they can't say
02:16:48
something because for me all i've when i started stand up all i did was criticize people and say
02:16:54
what I hated and say I didn't like something. That's your that's that person's right to do.
02:16:59
Yeah, they get to have a critical thought. This is a very popular thing right now. Yeah,
02:17:05
like criticizing popular culture is what most folk podcasts are all about. If people want to do that
02:17:11
and say, Hey, I don't like this, they can. And I stand by that. And especially if it's a woman
02:17:17
going, Hey, I don't like this thing. Do not correct them. Do not tell them they don't get
02:17:22
to say that. Yeah. It's just like, think of it in that way of like, all these things
02:17:27
can exist simultaneously. People don't have to get along. This is not a theme wedding.
02:17:32
It all doesn't have to go together. You can have all these different likes and things
02:17:37
and the end. The only person that we need to convince to like us is Paul Hulse. Is Chrissy Teigen.
02:17:46
And Paul Hulse. And everyone else. Those are our top two. But don't say that because people
02:17:52
have already harassed Chrissy Teigen because she was like I like true crime podcasts what should I
02:17:57
listen to she asked for it okay but I mean we're not relaunching that fucking because I watched that
02:18:03
wave go where I was like anytime that happens I'm like please end it as soon as possible
02:18:07
yeah what we want to say is we fucking love you guys we love you guys you guys fight our fights
02:18:14
for us and we appreciate that so much I love when someone's mean on Instagram and I don't need to
02:18:19
say anything because fucking 10 rad murderinos are like fuck you and here's why yeah well i never
02:18:25
worry about that shit because there's always somebody that comes in and it's just oh usually
02:18:29
in a really funny way they're just like yeah whatever dude um so don't worry is we're so
02:18:34
fucking lucky that we have this community and we don't need the fucking haters and the alien
02:18:40
and the alien lizard robot people like we've got each other and that's a lot we're great
02:18:45
what's that from we got each other and that's a what is that from gotta hold on to what we
02:18:52
wait no yeah is it we got each other and that's a lot don't sue us Bon Jovi thanks for listening
02:19:02
you guys you're the best stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye goodbye Elvis Elvis you want a cookie
02:19:09
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