00:00:00
This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
00:00:33
Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. When a charming neurosurgeon rode into Frontier Town
00:00:39
selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room
00:00:45
and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
00:00:51
This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
00:00:58
or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. The best parts of summer aren't just places, they're feelings.
00:01:07
It's the scent of fresh ocean air, sun-warmed skin, and long evenings outside. Pura's new summer collection is designed to capture those fleeting moments and make them last.
00:01:16
Restore your sense of place with clean, premium fragrances you control from your phone.
00:01:21
Bring the feeling of summer home. Discover the collection at Pura.com. Goodbye. Goodbye.
00:01:28
My favorite murder And hello! Welcome to a very special Saturday episode. This is so weird for us.
00:01:49
That's my favorite murder. We don't record Saturday. No, we record like midnight on Wednesday, usually.
00:01:55
We try to schedule it. we're like how painful will this be for steven to have to edit into the late early morning hours
00:02:02
that's right how tired can we make steven be tomorrow that's all we care about but today
00:02:08
because i am going out of town we have to do adjustments for father's day tomorrow that's
00:02:14
right and uh so yeah that's the worst because we just recorded and then we have to turn around and
00:02:21
do one more book report real quick or like think of new things to talk about because it's not been
00:02:25
a week i don't have anything i mean what did you get your dad for father's day um i think we're
00:02:31
gonna we're getting him a new iphone oh my goodness because his iphone first of all i've
00:02:36
talked about this but he loves apple products he's a big believer in apple he's owned stock
00:02:41
well he owned stock for a while but then the market and everything crashed so i used to be
00:02:46
like are you rich dad secretly and not telling us he's like nope um but he like he very much
00:02:52
it's almost like it's a bay area thing a little bit where it's like those boys from san jose
00:02:56
they're our boys yep they were in the garage together and now look at them i like to support
00:03:01
those our neighbors those nerds down south um so he he's had a five forever oh my gosh which
00:03:09
now fives look iphone fives look like credit cards they're so tiny yeah it's like this little
00:03:14
thing so now we get to get him a actual man size well you get yourself one too because you need an
00:03:20
upgrade. Okay. I also need thank you for my permission. I love you for that. Because I
00:03:27
wouldn't I would never do it. I'll wait until I drop it. Yeah. I can't do it. That's greedy.
00:03:33
It's greedy. It is. I'm selfish. Greed is good. No, it's not. Your phone is slow.
00:03:41
And you're a busy where you're working. That's basically your office. So you're like getting a
00:03:44
nice office. That's all. You're exactly right. And let me add on a laptop to that because mine
00:03:49
So remember how for a while it would be moody and all of a sudden I couldn't do a P.
00:03:54
I wouldn't be able to type P. Then I spilled water on it and all kinds of stuff started happening.
00:03:59
Did everything go orange at one point or something? Yes. There was some weird screen where I was like, did I just win on asteroids?
00:04:06
My computer. What just happened? And for a while I was convinced that Russians are watching me in a strange mirror image on my laptop.
00:04:14
They are. But now it just doesn't do stuff sometimes. It's like I'll just be typing and then it just freezes for a while.
00:04:21
I need to throw that thing out. Do it. That's what you do, right? You throw it into a ravine.
00:04:26
It's probably the safest thing to do, actually. Try to take that battery out and then just hook it off of a street on Mulholland.
00:04:32
Do it. If you hit someone in the head, you get extra points. Yeah. Do it. I got my dad.
00:04:37
Can I tell you? I just think I almost just did this to like because I thought this was such a good idea to be like, yes, I'm going to support this.
00:04:45
Yes. For Father's Day, there was like a 30% discount at 23andMe. And I was just like, I fucking love you guys.
00:04:54
That's like the best marketing. I'm going to get that for my dad. Oh, I bet he'd love that.
00:04:59
Yeah, he's totally into it. We like are contacted once by someone who maybe was a family member and all this shit.
00:05:05
And so I got that for him. And I just love that. It's like the perfect timing of like, hey, do you all kids want to see if your dad's a murderer?
00:05:11
Like, let's get him a discount. Let's upload some shit. Exactly. You know, I think I told you this, but I joined Ancestry.com because my mother's father was stabbed in a bar fight.
00:05:25
But I was like, what's the detail of that? I know my family's not telling me the whole story.
00:05:29
Oh, my God. And no one's ever told anybody the whole story. And he died? Yeah. How old was he?
00:05:34
That's how he died. It was when my mom was 21. Oh, my God. And it was the day she found out.
00:05:40
And the next day, she had to take her nursing test to become a licensed RN. And did she pass?
00:05:44
Yes, she did. Isn't that weird? That's crazy. She said she has no memory of taking the test, and she doesn't know how she passed it.
00:05:52
She cheated. That also on the Ancestry file Did you find anything No I couldn figure out Like it just brought up like a couple things and I couldn figure out how to make it go to where I wanted
00:06:05
Dude, we got to go to the Sacramento, the Petaluma Library, and get some microfiche action going on.
00:06:10
It's San Francisco. All of those people were San Francisco style. Even more fun.
00:06:14
We'll put on some, like, fucking scary music while we do it. Like Starship? What's that?
00:06:21
You know, Jefferson Airplane. later in the 80s became Starship, which is very, they're from the Bay Area and everyone's very proud.
00:06:28
So they buy all their phones. They do a lot of microfiche research. Okay, I love it.
00:06:35
Yeah. That's crazy. I know, isn't that nuts? Someone look that up for Karen. Can you figure out how my grandpa died?
00:06:42
Never met him. Or he wasn't the greatest. Okay, what's that in your hand? This is...
00:06:47
Or he wasn't the greatest. Rumor has it, according to my mother, not the best dad.
00:06:53
that uh so last episode i was telling one of my ripoff i've survived stories and in it i referenced
00:07:03
the i survived story i wasn't talking about that but it was also in the same episode about the man
00:07:08
who was attacked by a bear and his dog ladybug who who um helped him survive and but i didn't
00:07:15
know if ladybug had survived and in my mind i remembered it because i have watched the entire
00:07:19
episode minimum twice but i couldn't remember and he the man himself who tells the story looks sad
00:07:25
in the face probably because he had his scalp ripped off by a bear once i mean it's a crazy
00:07:30
story is crazy but he just has a little bit of a like you know hmmness to him so i was like that's
00:07:38
a guy whose dog died that's a guy who's lost all the nerves in his forehead when they sewed his
00:07:42
fucking scalp back on it maybe although what's connected nothing's connected up there that's why
00:07:47
like well i can't move mine that's because of botox you see this we should take video georgia
00:07:54
trying to move her face i'm trying to furrow my brows so hard as an example oh ding and then a
00:08:00
muscle pops out of your eye or just the botox comes squirting out of my forehead
00:08:05
and then into my forehead oh my god now i'm a believer i was looking at this divot that i have
00:08:13
in my forehead that looks, I used to call it the hatchet wound, because it's not just
00:08:18
a wrinkle. Like, it's always been a deep. Because you furrow your brow all the time.
00:08:22
Yeah, I do all kinds of stuff up here. Yeah. But I mean, I don't know. I feel like this needs surgery to go away.
00:08:28
Honey, let me introduce you to the powers that are Botox. No way. Absolutely. That's what it's for.
00:08:35
Yeah. But it's deep. And I think there's like actually bone loss underneath it. How?
00:08:41
Did you smack your head? No, I just keep rubbing my finger on it like this over and over.
00:08:46
No, I can tell you right now, a little bit of Botox will get rid of that. Jesus Christ.
00:08:51
And you'll be like a believer. A believer. Maybe I should be a believer. What if I do?
00:08:55
Then suddenly I can't stop talking about Justin Bieber. What if I do Botox, but only on this?
00:09:01
And then they leave the rest of my face aged. You can do that. Your face isn't aged.
00:09:06
Thanks, Joanne. You're welcome. Okay, so this is the update that we got. it says update on the dogs of episode 125 it's from kristin and she says uh i was pretty concerned
00:09:17
over the fate of the dogs and the i survived stories karen talked about and i'm and mentioned
00:09:22
so i had to research it turns out in both cases the dog survived oh my god in both the stories
00:09:28
both even ladybug she says from the appalate uh from the apal appalachian appalachian no no no
00:09:36
Appalachian. Appalachian. Appalachian. Yeah, I saw you get corrected on Twitter for that.
00:09:40
Sure. But also there was a couple of people who were like, every single person says it like this.
00:09:45
That's what I imagined in my mind, how they were yelling at me. But then lots of people were like, look, I live over here and I never heard that.
00:09:51
Yeah. But we got that great tweet. A guy sent us a tweet that said, if you say it Appalachian, I'll throw an Appalachia.
00:10:03
I love it. And that's how you know it's Appalachian. Appalachian. That's your...
00:10:06
Appalachian. Mnemonic reminder, whatever it's called. Okay. So here's what happened.
00:10:13
From the Appalachian Trail Killer story, Randall Lee Smith, parentheses, why are all serial killers names three words?
00:10:19
We know the answer to that. Go ahead. Tell them. It's because they're not named three words.
00:10:23
They just include their middle name when they identify them. So that Randall Smith in fucking Belmont.
00:10:30
Where's the place? Where's Belmont? Belmont, California. In Belmont, California, it doesn't suddenly get labeled a serial killer.
00:10:34
Yeah, and he's like, I'm Randall Marie Smith. Please leave me alone. Randall Marie Smith, you get up on this porch and you stop killing people on the Appalachian Trail.
00:10:47
Okay, so Randall Lee Smith's dog, Bo. Oh, starving Bo. Boy dogs named Bo and female dogs named Lady are like the best.
00:10:57
Lady. So Bo was adopted, though it wasn't mentioned to whom. That'd be so weird They give a name
00:11:06
A picture of the person And here's his phone number From an article Printed at the time
00:11:08
Quote Randall Lee Smith Was buried next to his mother At the Fairview Cemetery In Narrows
00:11:13
His dog Bo Scratched in the dirt At the graveside ceremony He has since been adopted
00:11:18
Oh That's like He still loved his owner I think that's the only person That loved Randall Lee Smith
00:11:24
Oh dogs are so good Dogs do their best They do their best And he was like This is my owner
00:11:30
Who gave me fish And then it's like No Scott gave you fish yeah not your owner my owner fed me
00:11:36
and I just didn't look when he was doing the other stuff so I don't know what happened
00:11:40
I was taking a nap I get distracted anytime there's anything it smells good there's a squirrel
00:11:45
yeah I mean have you met a squirrel there it's so much fun have you ever been on a trail
00:11:49
there's a thousand squirrels the smells are everywhere everywhere there's so much pee
00:11:53
and then from the bear attack story on the same episode Ladybug who helped save her owner from the grizzly mauling actually did survive Quote I believe that Ladybug saved my life
00:12:06
The man who got attacked, who we're still not naming, said noting that the dog also survived the ordeal and is OK.
00:12:12
Both stories have taught me to stay out of the forest forever. Stay sexy and don't let your dog get murdered.
00:12:18
Kristen. Good job, Kristen. Thank you for doing that research. Good job, Kristen.
00:12:22
If we could all just do my research for me, that would be best. I have a message from my story last week about the Glamour Girl slang.
00:12:31
And at the very end, I talk about how there's a possible connection to one other long, cold case.
00:12:36
And I say about how the woman's the murder victims, 50 years after she was discovered,
00:12:44
the Jane Doe is finally, what am I saying? Yeah, I hear you. Determined who it is based on the great niece.
00:12:50
Okay. Remember that? she was like i'm gonna sleuth it and she's like and i was like i bet she's a marino
00:12:55
she messaged us oh shit girl she says michelle fowler here dot was my great aunt and the mfm
00:13:01
ladies were right i am a quote fucking murderino hi hi michelle that's just wanted to say thanks
00:13:08
for the credit regarding solving dots disappearance but it doesn't all belong to me the doe network was
00:13:13
what led me to DOT, the Boulder Sheriff's Department, VidicQ Society, V-I-D-I-C-Q Society,
00:13:21
Boulder, Sylvia Petum, and a whole host of people helped identify DOT. Thank you for keeping DOT's
00:13:26
memory alive, S-S-D-G-M. Awesome. I know. That's really cool. That's so generous. Is it Vidoc?
00:13:33
V-I-D-O-C? Q. Or O-Q? O-C. V-I-D-I-C-Q. VidicQ. Stephen Lee, look up and see what that is.
00:13:41
See if you can't get a phonetical pronunciation. No, or just see what they do and who they are.
00:13:46
She's like, I didn't do it alone. I would also like to give credit, but this is not related to your case or my case.
00:13:53
This is related to, because I'm going up north, I have to board my dogs. But I've never boarded Frank before because he's from the streets.
00:14:02
And I've always known it wouldn't work out. And the place that I board my dogs is pretty intense.
00:14:07
It's like one of those. it's like this is a wonderful farm heaven where your dogs can roam free and there's a water park
00:14:14
and all this stuff but you they have to pass a test to be boarded that don't buy people to face
00:14:19
test yes it's a i couldn't pass that could you that's hard it would be hard for me too yeah um
00:14:25
so he had to go i dropped them off this morning and then i i was like but i want to leave them
00:14:30
here because i want to leave tomorrow unless he doesn't pass the test and i had to basically plan
00:14:35
because George is in. If Frank doesn't get into private school... The sweet little George girl is just like,
00:14:40
I like everybody! I want to do what everybody else wants to do. And fucking Frank is like,
00:14:45
I might bite you. Yeah, Frank's like, I don't trust anyone. I don't understand what's happening
00:14:51
and I just want to bark. And I'm so close to the ground. I just am a little... It's a little scary.
00:14:55
Everything is... I have to look up to see anything. But I don't like looking up.
00:14:59
Yeah, so he... I got the call at noon that Frank passed and they were going to let him stay.
00:15:04
but it was kind of sad because she said he is a little shy which does not sound like frank at all
00:15:11
he misses you so he's a little freaked out but i think once he because he's separate from george
00:15:16
because it's big dogs little dogs but then i'm sure they let them come back together and then
00:15:20
he'll be he'll be fine oh my god that's so sweet because he loves my dog sitters dogs
00:15:25
oh okay so it's not like he doesn't he'll be fine he'll be fine unless you get a call you need to
00:15:29
come pick your dog up, ma'am. If anyone would do it, it's Frank. He is, I don't know how he does it,
00:15:36
but he like is the most accident prone. I told you the time I've told you this at least twice.
00:15:42
The time he stood up to put his head out the window in the car, stood on the window, um, roller downer thing.
00:15:50
No. And began to fall out the window. And I, as we're driving down my street, I have to lean over and grab him by the tail and pull him back into the car.
00:15:59
I thought you were going to say he stood on the window rolly thing and rolled his fucking face up into the window.
00:16:05
No, he rolled it down and then began to fall out as I'm trying to like get somewhere.
00:16:10
That's terrifying. And that's Frank in a nutshell. Like he does things where you're like, this is like a, it's like a Rube Goldberg machine of you getting killed.
00:16:18
And I come in at the last second and save you every time. Oh my God. He also, anytime he stands on the couch, changes the channel.
00:16:26
Like he always knows to stand right on the clicker. I love that. He's amazing. That's adorable.
00:16:33
Yeah. Oh, I want to say I'm of a thank you corner. Okay. Because I complained about my car key on the last episode, how it unlocked all the car
00:16:42
doors automatically. Oh, yes. Yes. And I mean, everyone from everywhere who's ever owned a car apparently knows that it's
00:16:48
easy to fucking change that. Yes. And they all told me and I appreciate it. Oh, good.
00:16:53
And someone even sent me like step by step directions. Because I clearly haven't done it yet still.
00:16:59
I was like, great, good to know. And then I'll never do it. Right. But I appreciate that.
00:17:02
I love that they're like, it's this easy. I know this. You do this. That's what's great about this podcast.
00:17:07
You could be like, how is this thing? And then people would be like, this is how it is.
00:17:10
Yes. Great. I'm smarter now. The best. That's the key. We need that. That's what this podcast is truly about is we just pretend it's true crime and really
00:17:21
just get help from everyone. Yes. It's so good. Oh, so join the fan cult because now we're going to be posting unboxing.
00:17:29
videos oh yes because we get so many gifts in that po box right and they're amazing and they're from
00:17:36
all over the place and we have the we have the best time opening them privately yeah we just like
00:17:41
open them and we're all like oh and ah and then one day last week we were like let's do this on
00:17:45
video yeah people would like to see this because it's also all the like there's art that are like
00:17:50
inside jokes that we have with you guys that you should be seeing there a fucking incredible skirt with Elvis The pattern that was made is Elvis with cookies all over it And it this gorgeous skirt So if you go to join the fan cult
00:18:05
myfavoritemurder.com, you can join it and you'll see those videos. We'll just keep doing them.
00:18:09
And we're thinking of more and more videos to make because we know that's like a super fun element.
00:18:13
We're just trying to make the fan cult the thing you want it to be of like extra special connection thing.
00:18:20
We want to do it too. We're just like, we just have to get our shit together. Do a forum of what you'd want to see too.
00:18:24
because we don't know. I mean, yeah. I just suggested something to Georgia and she's like,
00:18:29
I don't know if you want to see it. I'm like, yeah, right? Isn't that kind of what it's all about?
00:18:33
Yeah. Please. We don't know. It was just me screaming naked through a field. Yeah.
00:18:38
And I was like, people love the way you scream. Is that it? Yes. Goodbye. Do you have anything else?
00:18:49
Go ahead, Stephen. Oh, I was going to say, I looked up the vid ICQ society is...
00:18:56
I want to say it's Vidoc. I'm just putting it out there. I think you're right, yeah.
00:19:00
But what about the other... Okay, I believe you. I'm just putting a random thing out there.
00:19:04
I agree. It's basically like a venue where like-minded persons in and out of forensics
00:19:10
would gather to discuss and debate crimes and mysteries. So it was established in 1990
00:19:15
by, it doesn't say their name, but people who worked in the U.S. Customs Service Special Agency.
00:19:22
Customs? Yeah. Interesting. Founded by William Fleischer, Frank Bender, and Richard Walter.
00:19:29
What does VSM mean? Does that mean like FBI? They're priests. Oh. So, yeah. Three priests that work for customs.
00:19:39
Cool. Yeah, look at them. Let's see. Are they nerds? Yes, I've definitely seen this place before.
00:19:44
Because it's basically people who have experience and education in forensics that get together and go,
00:19:51
how do we maybe solve these crimes? And everyone can bring one, like a cold case and be like, can we do this one?
00:19:56
I need, we need help with this. Exactly. They have to, you have to bring a cold case and a bottle of vodka.
00:20:03
Top shelf. And by the time the bottle of vodka is finished, the cold case is solved.
00:20:07
Yes. Learning things. Okay. Do you go first this week or do I go first? I think I went first last week.
00:20:14
Which was four days ago. Right. I had to wait to drink until you were done. God damn it.
00:20:20
That sucked. Am I? Should I sit on this blanket because of things? Yes, that is a barf couch.
00:20:28
Got it. That is a cat barf couch. Is it bothering you? No, I just don't want to get a hot butt.
00:20:35
Oh, is it a warm butt? Not right now. I'm fine. I was just like, I'll pull it out if not, but it doesn't matter.
00:20:41
It's just embarrassing. I don't want to sit and barf. This is great. I mean, it's old barf.
00:20:48
It is. How old? Well, how do you clean barf off, everyone? How do you clean barf off the couch?
00:20:52
screaming at me. No, I'm embarrassed. You heard it. Now I have a hot face. I'm sorry, we can take all this out.
00:20:57
No, I don't give a shit. Hot face and a hot butt on one show? Three fucking cats.
00:21:01
Clearly my house is going to be disgusting. I am okay with that. Okay. While the world watches the stars
00:21:10
at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
00:21:14
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up
00:21:19
on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.
00:21:25
Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
00:21:31
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.
00:21:38
And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game,
00:21:44
the future isn't some far-off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA.
00:21:51
Goodbye. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. It's 2026. And if you have an alternative career like food photography or professional mixtape making or witchcraft, you're going to need an online presence.
00:22:03
Whatever your thing is, Squarespace helps you build a website that's as unique as you are.
00:22:08
Squarespace provides you everything you need to offer services and get paid all in one place.
00:22:12
From consultations to events and experiences, you can showcase your offerings with a customizable website designed to attract clients and grow your business.
00:22:20
Get paid on time with professional invoices and online payments. Plus, streamline your workflow with built-in appointment scheduling and email marketing tools.
00:22:28
With Squarespace's collection of cutting-edge design tools, anyone can build a beautiful professional online presence that perfectly fits their brand or business.
00:22:35
Head to squarespace.com slash murder for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch, use offer code MURDER to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.
00:22:43
Goodbye. Summer clothes should feel easy and still look polished. Low maintenance, high reward. That's how we live our lives.
00:22:52
For summer clothes you will actually wear, there's Quince. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants,
00:22:58
dresses, and toffs with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear,
00:23:03
and their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights.
00:23:07
Everything at Quince is priced 50% to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories,
00:23:12
so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has become a destination for elevated essentials across the home,
00:23:20
kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life.
00:23:25
I am a fan of Quince. Yeah, Karen's wardrobe is Quince. I'm a lazy basics person.
00:23:32
And the things that I get from them, I always go, oh yeah, now I'm wearing these.
00:23:35
They work, they're cute, they're stylish. And they're classy. Like it doesn't look lazy, it looks classy.
00:23:41
And it's so affordable. Yeah. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash MFM for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.
00:23:50
Now available in Canada, too. That's quince.com slash MFM for free shipping and 365 day returns.
00:23:58
Quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye. What was I going to say? Okay. All right. So, as you are an I Survived retailer, this week I'm going to be a Confessions Tapes retailer.
00:24:16
Whoa, people write to us about, you have to watch that all the time. Yeah, it's really good.
00:24:21
And I started watching it when it first came out. I was like, this is exciting. But I but it turns out that people falsely confessing and people being wrongly commit, you know, wrongly accused and wrongly all this shit really upsets me in a way that I can't handle it.
00:24:37
So I stopped watching them. Like I've started watching like half of them and they're really fucking troubling.
00:24:41
Yes, it's horrifying. It's like this man spent 25 years in hell. Yeah. For no reason.
00:24:48
Yeah. And the person. Yeah, it's really, really troubling. But it's a really well done show.
00:24:52
It's on Netflix. the confession tapes if you can handle that shit go for it so the other night i was bored and i was
00:24:57
like all right there's one of these i've never tried to watch i'm gonna try to watch it and i
00:25:01
ended up being like blown the fuck away by the story okay cool and it's in michigan so i was
00:25:05
like vince do you remember this and he's like yeah this because this was a huge fucking story
00:25:08
in michigan okay i had never even heard of all right so this is the case of lawrence or larry
00:25:15
delisle hmm yeah this is one of those cases it's really reminiscent of susan smith
00:25:21
and aunt diane and also kind of reminds me of those stories of like people who leave their kids
00:25:26
in cars and like did they or didn't they do it on purpose those crazy stories yeah all right so
00:25:33
here we go on the evening it's also sad but here we go on the evening of august 3rd 1989
00:25:40
i was stopped to like get my bearings and yeah right because you have to picture it yeah 89
00:25:47
I was living in Sacramento. Yeah. I was nine. Right. You were nine. And like, you know, everything's this and that.
00:25:56
You're in the 80s. Here we are. Late 80s, past the MTV era. Now we're into some, we're into more of, everyone's trying to be more New York-y.
00:26:05
More. Oh, yeah. High brow. Mac makeup, brown lipstick. Yeah. Might be a bit early for that.
00:26:12
Yeah, I think it's a little more Duran Duran kind of thing going on. Yeah. But the sun is setting on Duran Duran.
00:26:18
Okay. So it's the evening of August 3rd, 1989. Lawrence, we're going to call him Larry, Larry Delisle, D-E-L-I-S-L-E, of Lincoln Park, which is a suburb outside of Detroit.
00:26:29
And your favorite band. That's fucking right. Long live Lincoln Park. Took his family out on a drive.
00:26:37
So they're in the station wagon. Larry's 28 years old. He has a steady job as a mechanic.
00:26:42
he mainly works on brakes and for the front end i don't know what that means um you know the front
00:26:48
part of the front end of a car all right uh and just as his father had done before him so the car
00:26:54
that the delio family is driving that night is a ford ltd station wagon and it had belonged to
00:27:02
larry's dad but two about two years less than two years earlier his dad had killed himself in the
00:27:08
car, shot himself in the fucking head in the car. And they kept the car and they even had
00:27:12
like still had bloodstains in the car that they couldn't wash out. No. So yeah, they
00:27:17
kept the car. Horrifying. But you know, they're he makes like 450 an hour. And they have four
00:27:23
kids. It's not like they have the money to then go buy a car. True. Yeah. You know what
00:27:27
I mean? But the emotional. Yeah, I get like it's a necessity. And yet the emotional toll
00:27:32
of that is right. It's like not really here nor there in the story. It's just this crazy.
00:27:37
Maybe it is. Who knows? Right. So that night, the family, the wife is Suzanne, eight-year-old Brian, four-year-old Catherine,
00:27:46
two-year-old Melissa, and eight-month-old Emily, I know, went to town of Wyandotte,
00:27:55
which is a word, which is part of the area known as Downriver. Okay. And they go into shop for bedroom furniture for the girls, and they get ice cream at a
00:28:05
local frozen custard shop which i know from vince is a thing good in michigan yeah like a little
00:28:11
while there was a frozen custard shop at the beverly center oh it was down by macy's kind
00:28:15
of in a corner no i never went oh it's how is it different it's thicker yeah because it's frozen
00:28:20
yogurt's like the diet version frozen custard is like the fatty fatty fatty version fuck yeah and
00:28:26
it is good man any kind of fucking soft serve i'm on board same this is like soft if they if they put
00:28:34
butter and soft serve. I mean, there's something to it where you're just like, this is the best
00:28:38
thing. Walking somewhere with a soft serve cone is like my fucking dream. Did you guys have Foster's
00:28:44
Freeze in Orange County? No, but they have them here and Vince makes me go to them sometimes.
00:28:47
There's like one left in like Glendale or Burbank, right? It's in Glendale. Yeah. Because that's,
00:28:52
that was kind of the main, you could, you know, after school, we would just walk around downtown
00:28:57
Petaluma. Yeah. And there was a Foster's Freeze. I don't know what it is now. But it was a like a
00:29:02
walk-up window with a little screen and you go up and be like half and half dipped and then
00:29:07
walk around with this ice cream no we were we were fucking she she waspy neighborhood so we
00:29:12
had heidi's frozen yogurt no it was called heidi's what was it called hold on heidi's rich lady
00:29:18
frozen yeah do you remember i just remember golden spoon golden spoon we had there was like a penguin
00:29:24
on the nose yeah i know penguins okay it was just um shishi yeah you know diet stuff okay
00:29:31
well everyone thought it was diet so not diet it's so not okay the custard chop so according
00:29:41
to larry that uh as they left the ice cream shop one of the daughters said look can we go see the
00:29:47
boats again daddy and uh they had done so the night before as well so what she meant by that
00:29:53
was that she wanted to drive they would drive down to the end of eureka road which was a dead end street and right when you got to the dead end street there was like a wood and metal little barricade and then a couple feet of grass
00:30:07
And then it went right into the Detroit River. OK, so there was like really nothing keeping you from just walking right into the Detroit River.
00:30:15
OK, but they would pull up to the end to that spot in the car. and because the detroit river is one of the busiest border crossings in the world for cargo
00:30:24
boats wow um yeah i know smart uh you normally can see boats go by and it was at night and all
00:30:32
the boats were lit up and so the little kids would be like we have boats or whatever right
00:30:36
which is like that makes sense and when i was a kid we used to do a thing called
00:30:38
we we would when we would leave my aunt's house which was in like a palace verdes we'd go over a
00:30:43
hill and you could see the city light up and we'd go the lights of the city it was like our favorite
00:30:50
thing oh you know kids like stupid shit they're real dumb yeah the good stuff yeah so the youngest
00:30:56
daughter emily though who's eight months old she's teething though and starts to cry so they're like
00:31:01
let's get the fuck out of here so they head out but first they stop in at a drugstore that was
00:31:04
around the corner and when they leave according to larry he misjudged his turn and instead goes
00:31:10
back in the direction of the dead end. I don't like that. Larry says he'd been having leg cramps
00:31:17
and pain all day in his calf and he had taken off his shoes while he drove because of it.
00:31:22
And he said he suddenly had a very painful leg cramp and it caused his foot to stomp down on the
00:31:26
gas. And he had to reach in and manually, like almost like a charley horse where you can't move
00:31:32
your leg, had to manually pull his leg off the gas. But he said that even when he had done so,
00:31:38
the car didn't slow down that the accelerator had stuck for some reason okay so those two things
00:31:43
this is what happened now i will say this uh one time i was driving my sister's 1968 mustang
00:31:52
up d street in petaluma and the accelerator pedal dropped to the ground and suddenly i was going 70
00:32:00
miles an hour down i feel like that's happened to me before yeah on older cars like that it was the
00:32:05
craziest thing and as i was driving like uh increasingly i was there a train coming at the
00:32:10
same time i was right on the train tracks oh my god and then honk honk um no god damn it that
00:32:16
would be cool but i basically was accelerating to the point where i was like i'm gonna run this stop
00:32:20
sign like it was crazy and then i i got my train was coming the train was coming i got my foot
00:32:27
under and kicked it back up holy shit you'd like flip it yes and i don't i think i've always been
00:32:34
a little bit stuck up because of that moment. Oh, you're so smart. Where instead of panicking, I was like, you have to fix this because I was in a racing
00:32:41
car toward death. Isn't it crazy to think about like what you would have done? I mean, my brother once was in a car with his friend who started having a seizure on
00:32:48
the freeway while he was driving. No. And we had to climb over him and like get on, like get, pull the car over.
00:32:54
Fuck. I know. And I'm like, Asher, you are a fucking, like, you're a monster. You're a Superman.
00:32:59
Because you know, that's my, that is like why I used to have panic attacks. Oh, God.
00:33:03
My first panic attack was driving 70 miles an hour down up the 101, and all of a sudden it hit me.
00:33:10
You could have a seizure at any moment. I could have a seizure at any moment and kill myself and everybody around me.
00:33:14
I had a panic attack that I didn't drive on the freeway for four years. It was crazy.
00:33:20
I've always, or once I theorize, that the reason I always move in with boyfriends immediately is because the one seizure I've ever had was in my sleep.
00:33:29
So I don't want to fucking sleep alone. you know that was after my seizures thank god my boyfriend kevin at the time was so good he i i
00:33:39
slept with him every night he had to talk me to sleep every night because i would the second i
00:33:44
laid down i would start having panic attacks it's so fucked up that sucks dude but i want to
00:33:50
introduce this so i believe that story as much as i do not believe that story right because how
00:33:56
That's the whole story. I mean, you and I are going to have like, we have to decide.
00:34:00
Okay, great. Because it's, yeah, right now it's like, yeah, I see that story happening.
00:34:04
Yeah. All right. This is a bummer. And it happened to me once. I know. But not the cramp part.
00:34:08
I don't like the cramp part. It doesn't jibe. But if you get the, I feel like in an older car, if you push the accelerator all the way
00:34:16
to the ground, that's a place where it could get stuck. So the leg cramp pushing it to the ground might be a good, like, makes sense because
00:34:24
it's not like you just tapped on it. Yeah. You know what I mean? Although I was just not that it's all exactly the same every time.
00:34:32
Do it. But when I was when I was going 30 miles an hour, so only lightly tapped my foot, that
00:34:38
thing dropped as if a piece of metal had broken and didn't come back up. So it was it wasn't about force.
00:34:47
Yeah. It was like a thing down there. A spring broke. Yeah. Whatever it was. so i have a lot of opinions but i don't know where to put them it's on this podcast is the answer
00:34:59
you tell me no the opinions go on this podcast um okay so then then wait hold on the accelerator
00:35:06
we're stuck meanwhile on the top okay so meanwhile let's cut to the top floor of a high-rise apartment
00:35:12
building that was directly next to the dead end street uh and also looked over the detroit river
00:35:18
It's like this pretty brick old apartment building. So their self-confessed nosy neighbor, Beverly Lake, was out on her balcony that night where she had mounted a high-powered binoculars on a tripod.
00:35:31
I love this moment. Beverly is a fucking nosy Nellie. Yes, I am too. About her nosiness, Beverly's husband once said to her, you know, if you keep doing this, someday you're going to witness a murder.
00:35:42
And she's like, that's exactly what we're trying to do. Right So she on the 11th floor top floor She has a bird eye view of both Eureka Street and the Dead End and the lake The night before she had witnessed and commented to her father who was with her about the Delisle family car the station wagon had pulled up there and was idling in front of the river As he said they had done it the night before to look at the boats
00:36:07
And when the car first came to the river that night, she noticed it again. So when they first came and then they were like, fuck this shit, let's get out of here.
00:36:13
So by her account, about 20 minutes after first seeing the car that night at about 920 p.m., she hears a, quote, terrible roar and saw the station wagon head straight towards the barrier.
00:36:26
Full speed followed by seeing the Delisle station wagon crack through the barrier.
00:36:32
It becomes airborne and crashes like 30 to 50 feet into the water. Fuck. Yeah. And she says she never heard it slow down once.
00:36:40
She heard the accelerator as it was flying through the air. Wow. And she hears Suzanne, the mom, scream as the car goes into the river.
00:36:48
Oh, God. It's really terrible. The car ends up about 90 feet down south of the river because of the current.
00:36:56
And it's 30 fucking feet deep. Shit. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. I did not expect it to be that deep.
00:37:02
So when the search and rescue arrive, and there's video of this. I mean, watch the confession tapes.
00:37:08
It's troubling. um they see the taillights are still visible of the car i know and they find lauren larry and
00:37:19
susan had escaped the car through the blown out front window so when they hit the water
00:37:23
the front windshield blew out they swam out but all four children were trapped in their seats
00:37:28
still in the car at the bottom of the river and they were pulled out you know hours of cpr were
00:37:35
but sadly none of the four children survived oh god and okay police questioned larry that night
00:37:43
he tells the investigators about says something was stuck in the gas pedal he was thinking that
00:37:48
maybe his shoe had come loose and hit it but police didn't buy his leg cramp story especially
00:37:55
when the doctors at the hospital couldn't find anything wrong with his leg at all
00:37:58
also for some reason they were like this is insane like we just want to leave and
00:38:03
go to Florida on vacation and get out of here. No, bad move. Yeah, but she supports, Suzanne supports him 100%
00:38:11
and is like, that's exactly what happened. He didn't do it on purpose. This was an accident.
00:38:16
Okay, that's good. Yeah, so she stands by him. But of course, the fucking media goes bananas.
00:38:21
It's a small town. Everyone knows each other and the media eats it up. It's super sensational.
00:38:28
They even show the dead children being carried out of the Detroit River. no they i saw it it's horrible and that's like when people see that they go banana it's an
00:38:39
emotional reaction and the police who were there that night helping also have this anger and
00:38:44
emotional reaction to these dead children that kind of someone needs to be blamed for this kind
00:38:48
of way of course it's really fucking awful there's one guy who's like is being past one of the
00:38:54
children on a boat and his eyes just looked insane in this way of like this isn't really happening
00:39:00
he's clearly going to have PTSD after. It's really fucking awful. I mean, also that's the part of this job of first responders
00:39:08
that never gets talked about, where they see horrible things. They see horrible things every goddamn day.
00:39:15
My mom told me once, and I won't tell the specifics of it, because it's truly horrible,
00:39:20
and I wish she hadn't told me, but my dad saw something early on, and she said he had nightmares about it.
00:39:25
He would wake up with nightmares about it. As a fireman. As a fireman. because they do a lot of resuscitations.
00:39:31
They don't just do fires. It's like, you know, when you call 911, the fire department is the one that comes.
00:39:37
Yeah, and he just saw some pretty awful things that happened to children. And that he just had nightmares about it for years and years,
00:39:49
and it kind of didn't go away. So, yeah, the impact is terrible. It also makes me think of the community meeting
00:39:55
that we talk about all the time, the Golden State Killer, when the guy stands up and says,
00:39:59
there's no way that if a man's in the house, he's going to let an intruder attack his wife.
00:40:05
It's that thing. I'm sure people said, I don't want to step on this. If this is what's about
00:40:09
to happen, how can you escape a car that your children are still in? How can you swim away
00:40:14
from that car? Yes. And so I'm still on the fence about his guilt or innocence. So there
00:40:20
is that argument, which I don't, we, you and I both have talked this many times. It's like,
00:40:25
you, you can't understand how people are going to react to things, right? You know, they both
00:40:29
swim to the surface but apparently he doesn't know how to swim either oh let me get yeah we'll
00:40:34
talk about it but yeah you're right you know i jumped it i jumped it no no no it's true i mean
00:40:37
it's it's it's and when i first watched the confession tapes i was like he's so fucking
00:40:42
innocent this is all bullshit he did on accident but the more i researched it in the past 10 hours
00:40:47
the more i'm like i don't know okay all right so um okay the media goes crazy and um they show the
00:40:56
video also of the station wagon it's this dramatic video of the station wagon being plucked out of
00:41:01
the river and the media starts stalking staking out the delisle house until five days after the
00:41:07
crash when larry and susan agree suzanne are ready to do an interview so so he looks like a not as
00:41:14
intelligent uh kind of pudgier ted bundy oh okay he looks like a a working man's ted bundy okay um
00:41:24
And she looks like every, I think, Midwestern mom, you know. So they're sitting on their little porch in front of their little house on lawn chairs and surrounded by reporters and cameras.
00:41:39
They seem super dazed, but there's no emotion. They're just, you know, not reacting at all.
00:41:44
And the fact that their kids are just four kids have just been killed. Yeah. They're probably him.
00:41:48
Probably in shock. Well, later, Larry says that he had taken two Valium for the interview, which is why he seems so calm.
00:41:54
And he like I fucking shouldn have done that But it also how we say like you never know how you can ever know how you going to react in situations And sometimes it not how people want you to react Well and that why right Yeah it like how people are slowly learning that And how the press
00:42:08
the press wants the story and the press wants the thing that's going to sell magazines or these days get clicks, which is emotions. Yes. Raw emotions. Exactly. So it's
00:42:17
like, get in here. And suddenly, it's it do you see the blue dress or the gold dress? It's is
00:42:22
this guy innocent or guilty it's up to you but then they'll be like she's too emotional those
00:42:26
emotions are fake they don't seem right they seem forced so there's no fucking way to win
00:42:30
no there's no i mean i think the way to win is like why are these people speaking to the press
00:42:35
days after four of their children died yeah that's you don't have to do that why are the press
00:42:40
hounding them after their children just died well it's a yeah i mean jesus because i think a lot of
00:42:46
people in the community are like how could they let yeah how could they let their kids drown there
00:42:49
I would never let that happen. So everyone was like fired up about it. Yeah. So they talked casually about the crash, saying they didn't know what had happened.
00:42:57
They didn't express any emotion or feeling. Of course, makes the public even more pissed off about them.
00:43:04
On August 10th, 1989, a couple of days after the crash. Was that an earthquake? No, there's someone on the tennis court.
00:43:13
Oh, it's an earthquake of people playing good tennis really well. That's stupid.
00:43:19
Okay. So Larry's brought in for questioning and a polygraph test by Sergeant John Paul Mader of Michigan State Police.
00:43:28
All right. Paul Mader is known in law enforcement, law enforcement community for extracting compressions from people, which is a good.
00:43:36
They're all like, that's a great thing. He's like, I can pull a rabbit out of a hat.
00:43:39
Right. In their minds, he's super good at it. Okay. So this dude, he's interviewed in the confession tapes.
00:43:47
listen i'm not judging i'm not putting any judgment on whether or not the guy is guilty or in this
00:43:52
the you know can that a fake confession or not or if he's a good cop or not i'm not saying any of
00:43:57
that he is a fucking douche like like not judgment on anything but that fact that he is a fucking
00:44:04
cocky douche and i really don't like him okay but at one point he says to uh larry i've just been
00:44:11
given a gift to look deeper into people than anyone ever thought possible to do like he's just
00:44:16
really into himself. And he in saying that he believes that when he's saying that? Oh, yeah.
00:44:22
Okay. And that's odd that he's he talks about how he's a Zen master and how he can pass a lie
00:44:28
detector test himself. So he starts. So this is just one of those confession tapes that are really
00:44:34
problematic. He starts to make Larry believe that he's crazy. And maybe he did do it on purpose,
00:44:40
but just didn't realize it. One of those like, you know, your subconscious mind took over and
00:44:44
You were overwhelmed by the stress of, you know, your baby was crying. It was a hot night.
00:44:49
And maybe you're not a monster. I know you're not a monster, you know. Yeah. And if you tell me that you did it subconsciously, then we'll know that, you know.
00:44:58
And he has so much sway because this is a man who's lost his four children. He's lost his four children.
00:45:02
He also has a 10th grade education. So he's, you know, at one point. Me too. At one point, you know, he says like, Larry's like, I must have been a monster if I had done it.
00:45:13
And this guy goes, that's very astute of you to realize that. And he goes, what's astute?
00:45:19
Like, he doesn't know what's going on. And he lies to him. He says, like, when we say something is done on purpose, does that mean there's pre-planning?
00:45:29
Like, did you do it on purpose? Was it an accident? But it was, you know, telling him, oh, he was like, it really took courage to do what you did.
00:45:38
Like, even making him feel. Like he empathizes with him or is on his side. Yeah.
00:45:43
Okay. And so during the interrogation, it starts to look like Larry's nodding off.
00:45:50
And like he's hypnotized almost in this like trance-like state. And I think the videotape is eight hours, but they interrogate him for 12 hours.
00:45:59
Jesus Christ. No lawyer. And during the interrogation, Larry cooperates. He seems to be getting along amiably with Sergeant Palmater.
00:46:08
while palmetter talks to larry larry seems to be in this trance hypnotized he does the whole thing
00:46:14
of uh palmetter does like i can totally understand why you did this and you're a victim too just
00:46:20
trying to get him to like agree yeah and the whole time larry's like i can't this can't be true like
00:46:26
questioning it himself like maybe it is he seems to have no effect or personality just kind of
00:46:31
closes his eyes to the ordeal he seems to start parroting back the suggestions that this guy that
00:46:37
palmetter had said to him which is a big thing about forced confession confessions is parroting
00:46:41
back what that person told you know said might have happened like word for word yeah yeah um
00:46:46
so it turned it leads the police to say that they got a confession from him even though there's no
00:46:55
real confession happening after that night that same night after 12 hours of interrogation
00:47:01
delisle is charged with four counts of first degree murder and the deaths of his children and
00:47:06
one count of attempting to murder his wife. Police released a statement to the media right away saying that Larry confessed to
00:47:13
intentionally driving his car into the river and killing his children, even though he really didn't say that.
00:47:18
They also said that he attempted to, he also during his interrogation, I guess, says that he had attempted to blow up his house once,
00:47:25
eight years earlier, by leaving a candle burning near a gas leak in the basement while his wife and son were asleep.
00:47:32
Which I don't fucking, that makes no sense to me. Like, why would you confess that unless it's like that is so specific?
00:47:39
Well, unless it's planted somehow or there's some. He did it on accident once. Or he's just putting if he's in a weird trance like state.
00:47:46
I mean, who knows what got suggested or what got what got floated that then kind of popped up in his mind.
00:47:52
I mean, this is a fascinating that idea of like of a coerced confession or false confession.
00:48:00
it's such a fascinating thing what the brain can will do yeah and what you start agreeing to when
00:48:05
you're under duress and all that stuff it really does look like he's in a trance or hypnotized it's
00:48:10
really creepy it's so weird um so both of these ways of having people die even if you're a
00:48:18
psychopath or sociopath are so awful like having people blow up or you're not guaranteed that
00:48:24
everyone's going to die people get just terribly injured and you have to take care of them the rest
00:48:28
your life like you're putting your car with yourself in it that's the part you don't know
00:48:33
how to swim you don't know how to swim you're fucking in the car yeah your wife's in the car
00:48:38
yeah she can swim out easily that's yeah it doesn't make it it's not easy it's not the cleanest way to
00:48:44
do something no and like if he was intending to do it he did he know it was 30 feet deep and how
00:48:49
far the car how long it would take for someone to come get the kid like they could have all survived
00:48:53
for all he knew they could have float hit the thing and floated exactly yeah right or they're
00:48:57
you know all right all right so did he so quotes from the confession they take quotes from the
00:49:03
confession to give to the media but without the content so when he's almost like asking
00:49:07
what if i did do you know like they take those quotes and put them out there without any context
00:49:12
um or subtext and the context context yeah the public is outraged and can't understand how
00:49:19
an average joe you know a store manager at a mechanic place with no criminal record could do
00:49:25
something like this and they are fucking pissed about it since the accident um suzanne is stuck
00:49:30
by larry's side and through the trial she does as well she uh it leads the public to wonder if she
00:49:37
is in on the murder plot maybe for the fucking insurance money and she can't go out in public
00:49:41
without people yelling obscenities at her and her she's called night and day with threatening phone
00:49:46
calls. Fuck. She just lost her four fucking children. That's why they went out of town. Yeah.
00:49:52
That's why they went out of town. Yeah. Now it makes sense. Yeah. You want to get away from all
00:49:56
these fucking like... Also, do you want to go back home right now to those bedrooms
00:50:00
where your four children are sleeping and see all their toys and shit and know they're never coming
00:50:04
home? Like, I wouldn't want to go home. No way. I want to go to a hotel or something and not have to...
00:50:08
But then I will devil's advocate and say they got into that death station wagon.
00:50:14
I mean, just to do that. Good point. But still, then with the house part, it has to be two people agreeing.
00:50:23
Like it has to be, I don't know. Oh, anyway. I don't either. So for months leading up to the trial, the story is regularly in the paper and the news
00:50:32
and new details are constantly released, such as suggestions that the family was in debt,
00:50:37
that they argued all the time. And of course, how creepy it is that the family kept the car that Larry's dad shot himself in
00:50:44
and had blood stains in still. Yeah. Eventually, the confession and interrogation video
00:50:50
is thrown out by the trial judge, whose name is Robert Columbo Jr., which is like the best fucking coolest name I've ever heard.
00:50:59
Robert Columbo Jr.? Mm-hmm. Columbo. He makes good, like, pasta sauce. Yeah, we're calling him Columbo now.
00:51:06
Okay. Who ruled that the video, which is great, the video was an involuntary statement.
00:51:11
So the video's thrown the fuck out. So he's seeing the same thing you're seeing.
00:51:14
It's like this. There's he's just talking. This isn't this is not a confession. Yeah.
00:51:20
But Colombo rejects the idea of moving the case out of town. So it's been this crazy, huge news story.
00:51:27
People are emotionally fucking attached to this story, too. Right. And five of the people who eventually got picked to be on the jury admitted that they had heard all about the confessions and had been following the case.
00:51:40
But how can you not? It's like your town. It's your town. biggest story in your town but they pinky swore or whatever that they wouldn't let it affect their
00:51:48
decision come on and i'm like colombo you just wanted the fucking notoriety you didn't want it
00:51:53
to be moved because you wanted to stay in the middle of it yeah it's hard because on one hand
00:51:56
you're like great he's like making a fair ruling about the confession tape but that's fucking
00:52:01
insane that's the whole point of why we move trials is so that you can get a jury that's as
00:52:07
unbiased as possible they're going home that night and the fucking on the news is the trial story
00:52:13
Well, and also these are all the same people who real time watch dead children be pulled from the river.
00:52:18
Exactly. They're traumatized themselves. That affects you. You just need someone to be held responsible.
00:52:25
Yes. And you have a wound now that you need healed. That kind of is. Yeah. And that's so many people in that town or even that area.
00:52:34
And all their friends who come over for dinner or that they see in the grocery store all want the same thing.
00:52:38
Yeah. so um when the case went to trial in june wayne county prosecutor kevin simoski also
00:52:50
not talking about his fucking career or him at all except that he seems like a fucking douche
00:52:54
again he seems like he's from animal house like he's a dan akroyd character even with the fucking
00:53:00
the dan akroyd accent thing he's it's just so it's just rates on my nerves i'm not saying
00:53:07
anything about him can we say can i just say that dan akroyd was not in animal house because i don't
00:53:13
yeah i figured i got that wrong but he reminds me of one of those how about a belushi yes okay he
00:53:19
reminds me he's like a belushi akroyd style uh you know come on guys i everyone's guilt you know
00:53:26
he looked like um he just looked so 80s back then it's 80s and chicago accent or like that
00:53:32
midwestern accent yeah a lot of flat a's yeah and he was real showy and flashy and yeah pinkie ring
00:53:38
probably okay i'm gonna guess i'm gonna say yes the pinky ring okay um he argued that larry was
00:53:46
a troubled man drowning in debt feeling burdened by life and his by his wife and kids actually in
00:53:52
confession tapes there a funny larry interviewed in it and you can hear it just his voice you know from prison Oops gave that one away And he and he says you know the the when he was trying to coerce the confession he was like you know your daughter crying in the back seat and you just snapped and larry like
00:54:08
i had four children who cried constantly yeah if i were gonna kill snap at a crying kid i would
00:54:14
have you know done it three kids ago exactly yeah you know that's true which is a good point
00:54:19
um he the samowski argued that larry deliberately planned the crash and fully intended to die along
00:54:27
with the rest of his family that night so his thing was that it was like a murder suicide
00:54:31
attempt oh wow okay defense attorney frank um eeman eeman eeman he man claimed he had a blonde
00:54:41
page boy right it was weird yeah um eeman i bet claimed the car was defective that delisle was not
00:54:47
guilty he told reporters that the only reason larry quote confessed to the crime was because
00:54:52
police wore him down during the interrogation with again no attorneys present and basically
00:54:56
brainwashed him and gave him a kind of nervous breakdown and which would be very easy to do for
00:55:03
a man who's just lost his four fucking children just lost his children not as intelligent as the
00:55:08
person who's doing the questioning yeah you know he says they erased larry's real memory and planted
00:55:14
a new idea into his head, one that held him responsible. Because also in question tapes, he's like, yes, I'm a piece of shit.
00:55:21
I hate myself for the rest of my life. I killed my children. Yeah. But not saying he did it on purpose.
00:55:26
Like he was blaming himself too. Right. So he, you know, he was like wanting to take on the responsibility.
00:55:33
Of course he was. Yeah. If he didn't do it and it was as he said. He's still. It's still as bad because.
00:55:41
He's fucked for life. He's fucked for life. Yeah. and his poor wife and everything you know um okay the trial lasted i just wrote eight
00:55:50
i'm gonna think eight days long minutes eight the trial lasted eight days with more than two
00:55:57
dozen witnesses called to testify including nosy neighbor beverly lake who said that the crash
00:56:02
quote we saw something that was carefully planned she described the cash the crash as the most
00:56:08
deliberate act she's ever seen and that the car proceeded in a straight path between the barricades
00:56:13
without swerving or deviating and that there are no apparent signs of breaking which is like yes
00:56:19
that's what he said yes she thinks she's corroborating what he says and she thinks it
00:56:25
proves that he's guilty well she's just she's just juicing it up and pretending that her vantage
00:56:31
point from a building an 11-story building however many yards away means that she knows
00:56:38
the intention of what's happening. I mean, that's crazy that they let her even say it.
00:56:42
She's like the main witness, too. They were like so happy when they got her, which is
00:56:46
like... Did the defense rip her? I mean, like... I don't think so. I don't know. Shit.
00:56:50
I know. It's really like, it's really problematic. I'd be like... And she's interviewed during
00:56:55
this show, too, and you want to be like, yell at her, but she thinks she did something
00:57:00
good. She thinks she did a good thing. If I would work for the defense, I would have
00:57:03
been like, rebut, Your Honor. Beverly, how many pairs of binoculars do you have? Eleven pairs
00:57:12
of binoculars. And an expert in accident reconstruction, so there's a whole problem with the way they tested the car
00:57:20
too. Sergeant Weldon Greiger testified that the car travel had to travel about 40 feet
00:57:27
at about 40 to 47 miles per hour so that's how fast it went okay a man named brian ross he was in a boat on the river
00:57:38
that night oh shit so he saw the car go underwater oh and he testifies that the car went under in a
00:57:44
matter of seconds and that larry surfaced quickly right above where the car had gone under and that
00:57:50
larry didn't say anything when he got out there he never went under the water again he was just
00:57:54
sitting there treading water um and suzanne popped up down river so she you know panicked
00:58:01
or tried to get one of the kids, maybe who knows, popped up down river and was hysterical when she got up there
00:58:06
and said that she was spitting out water and screaming, my babies. And then she tried to go back underwater.
00:58:13
So she did what I think most of us would have done. Yes. And he didn't. And that is problematic.
00:58:18
But he also didn't know how to swim. And he, you know, he didn't know how to swim, but he could tread water.
00:58:23
Yeah, I don't know. That's that's weird. Yeah, that is weird. but also he could also have been in in full shock and like he could have been uh like his hearing was
00:58:36
out right he could have just like not known where he was sure and been completely who knows what
00:58:41
happened when that when that car hits the water he could have slammed his head on the steering wheel
00:58:45
hit it with enough force to break out the windshield yeah um the expert car witness for
00:58:52
the prosecution said that nothing had been wrong with the car, despite the fact that the choke
00:58:58
stuck once in 21 tests on the car. So they tested it 21 times. And then one time,
00:59:05
um, the, like something happened where it stuck or it was revving up in neutral.
00:59:11
Yeah. Accelerator was still going in neutral. After that one time in 21, they tested it one
00:59:18
more time and then stop the tests so that happened like at try 20 and they were like no it's fine
00:59:23
like they wouldn't keep testing because they didn't want you know the outcome of something's
00:59:28
wrong with the car right and that doesn't seem fair no it doesn't and also the arresting officer
00:59:33
he was on the stand the jury or the jury stand he was on the stand witness stand because on the top
00:59:41
of his notepad during a test ride with police he wrote quote accelerator sticking and then during
00:59:48
the trial, he swore under oath that he had no idea why he wrote that. It just happened to be there.
00:59:53
Come on. I know. So Suzanne testified that the car engine had raced in the past including sometimes while they were in the car One defense witness mechanic James Cokewell testified that the car accelerator cable was bent
01:00:07
Its engine mounts were cracked, which pulls the accelerator cable and causes the accelerator to stick.
01:00:11
That's what happens when, I guess, engine mounts are cracked. Okay. I'm not a car person.
01:00:17
We should become car people. We should. Let's make this into a car podcast. Call it car talk. Perfect.
01:00:23
Become men. Yeah. and one of its throttle plates appeared to stick. So I'm sure that means something to someone.
01:00:30
The jury deliberated almost nine hours over two and a half days, which is like three hours a day.
01:00:35
It's not a big of a deal. Deputies were brought into the court, like into the courthouse and outside to stand guard
01:00:44
in case of a fucking riot when the verdict got read. Oh my God. Because that's how crazy the fucking town was about this case.
01:00:51
I bet. You know? and the jury found Larry guilty on all accounts. At sentencing, Colombo said that he had serious questions
01:01:03
about whether the proceedings had been fair. So even he was like, I call bullshit on this.
01:01:08
And probably if it had been a, what is it called? A bench trial, which means the judge is the judge, not jury.
01:01:15
Yeah. Then he probably would have been let off. Wow. When they did try to get one and it was denied.
01:01:20
Right. because he fucking left it in at the center of the crime right wait what like that he left it in town
01:01:28
right so of course they're yeah i mean that's the whole point of leaving in town right then all the
01:01:34
people in town come and give their opinion that's right um and he so larry's sentenced to five
01:01:42
current terms in life prison shit about five years after a sentencing suzanne and larry divorced
01:01:49
he says it's because he looked so much like their children it was just too hard for her she was
01:01:54
heartbroken clearly and she's fallen off the radar let's not try to find her never please um defense
01:02:00
this is defensatory frank even now wishes that the confession tape had gone into trial and they
01:02:06
had been able to see it because it wouldn't it would have shown how much larry had been broken
01:02:10
down and coerced so if only they could have seen it yeah you know um and larry's case is taken to
01:02:16
the Supreme Court, but they denied to hear it. And he's exhausted all his appeals.
01:02:20
So the only change would have to come if the governor said so. Really? Of Michigan.
01:02:27
Yeah. And that's the case of Larry Delisle and his poor family. Wow. Yeah. I mean, that is why I don't watch shows like Confession Tates.
01:02:37
I'm going to fucking think about Larry Delisle and the did he or didn't he for the rest of
01:02:42
my life now. And it won't matter because his fucking poor children are still dead.
01:02:46
They're dead either way. Yeah. And it won't matter because, yeah, it, it, I'm sure there's part of him.
01:02:57
Let's just say best case scenario. He's the best case scenario is that he's innocent, but that he was put away.
01:03:02
Yeah. Because he was coerced. But he still wanted to be put away. Yeah. Because this horrible thing happened.
01:03:10
It's troubling. I love did they or didn't they cases, but it's when someone didn't get a fair trial or have false confessions or were like fucking, you know, railroaded somehow that those are the ones I can't stand.
01:03:23
Yeah. Well, when it's not clear in a place where like you would want and this is, you know, what what is why this is such a topic of conversation these days is because we've all kind of like blindly assumed this is done correctly.
01:03:39
this is the place where things are done correctly. It's a court system. You're going to get what you deserve.
01:03:43
Yep. It's all very, look, you got a lawyer. This is how it, you know, it's all that shit where it's like,
01:03:48
oh no, no, this is one of the most fucked up systems. There's fucked up shit happens all the time.
01:03:53
And we only know now where, or we're, you know, slowly learning of like that, the way police do things and how things can't be allowed.
01:04:03
And you have to have your lawyer there. That's the reason it's the law. It doesn't make you guilty.
01:04:07
If you ask for a lawyer immediately, It doesn't make you guilty if you don't cry on camera.
01:04:13
Right. Or, you know, but who knows? Maybe he is guilty. Also, just the idea that they showed dead children on the news is just like that should never be allowed.
01:04:23
No, it's so terrible. No, never. Wow. Yeah. Good one. Thank you. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
01:04:37
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.
01:04:48
Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
01:04:53
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.
01:05:01
And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far-off concept.
01:05:09
It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
01:05:15
When you're young, you don't really buy furniture. You either inherit something from your parents or you just drag something in from the street like you're some kind of hipster raccoon.
01:05:24
When you're ready for furniture that you actually like, check out Article. Article offers the style and durability you want at a price that actually makes sense.
01:05:32
They take great care in curating their collection, focusing on pieces that stand the test of time.
01:05:37
There's no filler. Every item is chosen for craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.
01:05:42
And with Articles' 30-day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it.
01:05:50
Plus, Articles' customer care team is available seven days a week, offering knowledgeable support and even free interior design services to help you get your home just right Yes please Don we all kind of need that Like the eye of an expert Yeah Where should I put this And also what should I move here and there
01:06:05
And what should I even get? But Article has it all so you can get whatever there.
01:06:09
That's right. You could be like, I have this thing. Should I get this one or that one?
01:06:12
Totally. Am I Scandi or am I mid-century? Help me be boho chic, please. If you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table, or bed,
01:06:19
head over to article.com. Goodbye. Bye. Summer is fun, but it can also completely destroy your routine.
01:06:26
Between days at the beach, recovering from days at the beach, and then remembering you
01:06:30
don't even like the beach, it can really mess up your day. That's why it's helpful to have something like cachava that makes it easy to stick to
01:06:36
one healthy habit. Cachava is an all-in-one nutrition shake, and now it comes in new travel packs.
01:06:42
Every packet gives you a simple shake with protein, fiber, vitamins and minerals, greens,
01:06:47
probiotics, omegas, electrolytes, and more. They're easy to toss into a bag, easy to take on the road, and a simple way to stick with your normal wellness habits, even when your schedule changes.
01:06:57
Cachava is a clean, simple option for staying fueled when life gets busy. I am so excited about this because Vince is the crazy person who packs all his vitamins whenever we go somewhere.
01:07:06
And I'm like, I don't have room for that. And I also will just ignore them the entire trip.
01:07:11
So this is like how I'm going to get it all in. And then you have a satisfying shake.
01:07:15
So you have a breakfast or an emergency lunch. Like they're making it so convenient.
01:07:20
Oh my God. I'm so excited. Take your daily ritual with you. Go to cachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off your first order.
01:07:27
That's cachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com, code MFM. Goodbye. Okay. Well, so my case this week is one that I actually started when we were on the European tour
01:07:43
and was going to do on that. Didn't we have a day off in Stockholm? Wasn't there?
01:07:50
Yeah. A little extra time there? Yes, yes. So I started it and then had enough time to second guess myself.
01:07:56
Love it. And was like, this is too new. Yeah. And this might actually be a bummer.
01:08:01
I think I was particularly worried about the shows in Norway and Stockholm. That's right, you were.
01:08:08
Because I was like, they're not going to speak English. They're going to hate us.
01:08:12
I made up all these things of what they were going to do. And then they were like the best audiences.
01:08:16
Yeah, they were great. Who spoke better English than us. Yeah. and were hilarious yes um okay so anyway but it turned everything was as it was supposed to be but
01:08:24
i really really want to tell the story we talked about it when it happened real time last year oh
01:08:29
i know what you're doing it's the murder of swedish uh journalist freelance journalist kim wall oh my
01:08:36
god and because it's so new and because it's when um cases are this new it's just a series of
01:08:45
newspaper articles that everybody's getting their information from. So most of these, most of what I have here are quotes and polls from articles from the BBC News.
01:08:55
Because BBC News was all over this and seemed like they were covering it. And they're so smart, too.
01:08:59
They're so British. They're smart, but they're calm. Yeah. They know how to line up.
01:09:03
Yeah. And, you know, tea. Don't ask any questions about tea. Yeah, exactly. So we'll just talk about Kim Wall for a second.
01:09:13
So her name was Kim Isabel Frederica Wall, and she was born March 23, 1987, to her parents, Ingrid and Joaquin Wall, in a close-knit community in a small town of Trelleborg in southern Sweden.
01:09:29
And she graduated from high school. She was obviously super brilliant because listen to this college career that I was like, God, that's a lot of homework.
01:09:39
she studied international relations at the London School of Economics I bet they're smart
01:09:46
it's hard to get in there I don't understand numbers you have to have so many what do they call those?
01:09:53
numbers so many numbers in your pocket you have to do a lot of pounds your parents have to have pounds
01:10:03
and you have to have numbers in your head she got a bachelor's degree there and then she went to New York
01:10:09
and she got into Columbia in the journalism department, which apparently is very, very competitive and really hard to get into.
01:10:19
She graduated top of her class with honors, and she had a dual master's degree in journalism and international relations from Columbia.
01:10:28
So this is a very, very intelligent woman who's also obviously very ambitious, knows exactly what she's into.
01:10:37
and then they have just a ton of great quotes from her friends like her classmate um anna
01:10:44
cadria rado was interviewed by the bbc and said that kim was very bubbly and warm she's the kind
01:10:51
of person who had fantastic stories about all the things stories that she was working on and you
01:10:55
could jump straight past the small top which like right that's that's what we're all about
01:11:00
she was intellectual so well traveled had all these varied interests and she liked quirky and
01:11:07
eccentric stories so if you were at a party you'd end up passing hours chatting with her
01:11:12
that's so like yeah it's just like oh i like her yeah she's my friend um she also won um
01:11:19
an award called the hansel might prize um awarded by a german newspaper that i cannot pronounce i
01:11:27
apologize it looks like sudeutsch zeitang that's exactly right perhaps i was testing you she was
01:11:36
yeah exactly now i can move to germany in march 2016 they gave her an award for the best digital
01:11:42
reportage of a series called exodus um which was her report on climate change and nuclear weapons
01:11:50
testing in the marshall islands whoa that's such smart stuff smart stuff that was like that's not
01:11:55
the Circleville Pumpkin Festival every year, which is my report. I like to give, but this is clearly a woman.
01:12:02
She was about, she reported on the resurgence or the uprising of feminism in China.
01:12:11
She would do all these stories that were about people who were underrepresented,
01:12:16
about subculture is a word they use a lot. She was a woman of substance. She really was.
01:12:21
And she hauled her ass around the world getting these stories. So she went everywhere.
01:12:26
She seemed very brave. And her friend Victoria Grieve told Sweden's Express and newspaper about life in a, oh, she wrote about life in a huge shopping center in Kampala's Chinatown, about Cuba's underground internet providers who download and disseminate new episodes of Keeping Up with the Kardashians to people in Havana.
01:12:48
She, we made a report together about the wealthy women in New York who voted for Donald Trump.
01:12:52
So she was political and she was but she was also she did like personality profiles and kind of those pieces of like meet meet your fellow humans in the world.
01:13:03
But there are dangers to being a freelance journalist. Somebody named Truthy Gautipati.
01:13:11
I think G-O-T-T-I-P-A-T-I. Gautipati. Yeah. who wrote in the Guardian, as news organizations
01:13:22
grapple with shrinking budgets, they increasingly rely on freelancers who cost less and are willing to take on
01:13:28
the attendant risks, reporting in places they wouldn't send their staff to. What? That's scary.
01:13:34
Yeah. Because the competition's fierce and female freelancers get out there and work really hard to prove that
01:13:44
they're the same kind of reporters as anybody else and they'll go get the stories and that they're willing to do all that obviously
01:13:50
and they don't talk about the dangers themselves because they want to prove that they're they can
01:13:55
do the job yeah um just sounds like they're complaining or something right exactly they
01:14:00
don't want to do that yeah they just want they just want to keep getting the jobs and then
01:14:04
hopefully have that get them um you know some kind of editorial job or whatever so sure so um
01:14:12
we'll go to this inventor Peter Madsen um he's he's a Danish inventor who became famous
01:14:20
around 2008 because he had built what he claimed to be the first privately built largest privately
01:14:29
built submarine um in the world and it was 56 feet long it was called uh the UC3 Nautilus
01:14:38
and, or sorry, he did a series of submarines, the UC-1 Treya, the UC-2 Krakow, and the UC-3 Nautilus.
01:14:48
Is this like a thing that people do, like make fucking submarines? No, it's not at all.
01:14:53
This guy is like, he sounds to me, in the way they describe him, to be like a low-rent Elon Musk.
01:14:58
Okay. So basically... Because when they say he made the biggest one, I'm like, well, are there a bunch of smaller ones?
01:15:05
I know. Submarine-wise, wouldn't you want to go little smaller if you're making it yourself sure like if you forget one you know like a one screw
01:15:14
somewhere and then it's this big old thing because you have to have like a dining room yeah you're
01:15:19
you run out of gorilla glue yeah i don't i don't feel like length is you should be super concerned
01:15:24
with it when it's a submarine but yeah you know how men are who am i saying it is all about size
01:15:29
okay so he so that's how he kind of bursts onto the scene he comes he becomes um famous you know
01:15:37
in Denmark for basically being this kind of eccentric inventor. And he does all this stuff with either being fronted.
01:15:50
Shit, what's that called? Oh, being like when they pay the money. Venture capitalist.
01:15:55
So it's venture capitalism. So he's like, he goes, he's, you know, like a mover and shaker where he's out there and he's like,
01:16:00
I'm this inventor and I can make this and the new wave or personal submarines or whatever, however he did it.
01:16:06
And he gets people to kind of stake. They're like, great, here's this money. Yeah, here's 10 grand.
01:16:11
I'm a venture capitalist and here's my blazer. We are too. Give us fucking 10 grand.
01:16:16
Rich people. Yeah, we have all kinds of submarine ideas. But then he has that kind of personality where he's getting out there and he's about, he keeps getting himself in the paper.
01:16:26
He's like, he becomes renowned as this eccentric inventor. And after the success of when he first came out with like, I made a submarine and I'm a self-taught engineer.
01:16:36
That's crazy. Yeah. Then he partners with architect and former NASA contractor Christian von Bengsten,
01:16:44
and they form a collective called Gopenhagen Subordinals. That sounds like... Suborbital.
01:16:52
This sounds like... Orbital. Villains from fucking Austin Powers movies. Yes. It's very much shave your head and put your fingers up to your lips in a prayer position.
01:17:03
They're actually a group of amateur rocket makers. And they're working to the aim of launching a manned rocket into space.
01:17:11
Oh, yeah, me too. So they're self-made NASA astronaut like rocketeers. Calm down, dicks.
01:17:19
It's pretty bold when you're like, I didn't go to college for this. But how about you give me $25,000 and I'm going to have a rocket go up?
01:17:28
I would rather have a not self-taught engineer make my rocket. Same. I would rather have someone who went to years and years of very hard school.
01:17:36
Yeah, like I would like an engineer that's gone crazy, like because he's so specific and he checks things 19 times.
01:17:44
Because he learned it from people who are smarter than him. I want the guy that's got a bunch of books that he has actually read.
01:17:51
I want a guy who in fucking has student loan debt because he went to so much fucking schooling That right I want a guy that just asked me about me Oh wait what are we doing Elvis is right here
01:18:05
Okay, so that collective, Copenhagen Suborbitals, it falls apart in 2014. And the word, it comes out that it's basically because Peter Madsen is nutso.
01:18:17
They say he was kind of a loner, really fighty. He's the kind of person who would throw a tool at you.
01:18:22
some men said they didn't find him to be intimidating in any way and then some people
01:18:28
said and usually it was women said that he was so they it was yeah he was he was one of those
01:18:35
kind of people like a little monster he after the suborbitals group fell apart he went on to create
01:18:41
rocket madison's space laboratory which sounds like a show on the cartoon network
01:18:47
and he set that up to come directly compete with his ex-partners oh god because he's a dick um he
01:18:56
wrote on the organization's website my passion is finding ways to travel to worlds beyond the
01:19:02
well-known well submarines are pretty well-known dick yeah i mean that's just a bay you've been
01:19:08
there okay so in 2015 there's another dispute and this for his new group the volunteers because
01:19:15
he's doing everything by like crowdfunding and getting people to volunteer to come help him build
01:19:20
these things and these volunteers were like they were the ones maintaining the nautilus and uh
01:19:25
they were like bye we're out of here and everybody walked and he said in a statement on his website
01:19:31
quote you may think that a curse is lying on the nautilus that curse is me he wrote that jesus um
01:19:38
and then he added there will not be peace on nautilus for as long as i exist he's so scary
01:19:45
He seems crazy. Kim Wall had reached out to Peter Madsen in 2016 to get an interview with him because obviously at that time is like, who is this crazy submarine and rocket maker?
01:19:57
This is like a good story. Yeah. Like, what's your deal? He never got back to her.
01:20:02
A year later, she and her boyfriend, who was a designer, his name Ole or Ole Ole, they've decided to move to Beijing.
01:20:12
so it's the night August 10th it's the night of their farewell party and she gets
01:20:18
a phone call and it's Peter Madsen and he's saying I want to show you my newest personal
01:20:24
submarine the Nautilus and he's like I'll grant you an interview and I'll show you how my submarine works
01:20:31
so she leaves she goes and meets him at her party yeah I don't know if the party had started I don't know what time she got the call
01:20:38
this is this is the storiest story part of this story because the none of the newspapers really specify um that
01:20:47
except that you know at some point they were somebody said they made it sound like it was
01:20:51
the same night okay so she was basically like i'll be right back yeah this will take me three hours
01:20:56
and it's and i have to do it yeah um because it's like she's waited a year totally so she meets him
01:21:03
at the harbor and there's a picture and this is kind of famous on the internet um a person going
01:21:11
by on a boat who saw the submarine sitting above the water in the harbor and uh peter and kim were
01:21:18
both on it took a picture of them from the side of the boat and that's essentially the last time
01:21:23
anyone sees her alive is that moment so eight hours later um she's not returned she's not
01:21:30
contacted anyone so her boyfriend calls the police and uh at 2 30 in the morning reporting her missing
01:21:37
saying she went on the submarine with peter madsen they left from here da da da the same morning
01:21:42
later that morning authorities are called out to rescue a man whose personal submarine was sinking
01:21:48
and of course it's peter madsen and so uh the police questioned the 46 year old inventor
01:21:54
he liked to describe himself I should have put this up higher as an inventrepreneur
01:22:00
me too oh my god I like to describe him as an asshole I mean if you call yourself anything
01:22:10
don't let it be what is that there's a word for words that are word combos like that
01:22:15
I'm an inventrepreneur okay Willy Wonka take it easy He also said that his work was, quote, to challenge the ordinary.
01:22:27
The ordinary is like, we're good. Yeah, it's fine. You know what? How about just be a normal person?
01:22:33
He just sounds like a bullshit artist to me. Like one of those people that's good at raising money because he can say buzz phrases that people like.
01:22:42
Like a fucking head of a startup. Exactly. No offense to heads of startups. Steven just looked up a picture.
01:22:50
Will you just tell Georgia what you describe him as? Oh, I just said he looks like an ugly Daniel Craig.
01:22:56
Oh, man. Yeah. I could see that easily morphing into ugly. Yes. He had, because he was in the press so much for all his inventions and being this eccentric
01:23:06
inventorpreneur, he had actually had a biography written about him by a journalist named Thomas
01:23:13
Gersing. I know you paid for it, right? Well, I don't know. Um, so that guy said that he was angry with God and everyone and that he had a hard time
01:23:24
get along, getting along with other people and his lofty ambitions, um, caused him to
01:23:30
want to do everything his way. So basically Dick. Yeah. Um, and also the, clearly that's what other people that worked with him said, people who
01:23:38
were having to walk off the job or like breaking up entire, you form this huge collective and
01:23:43
then everyone's like a year later, like not working with you anymore. not like us
01:23:49
that's right Steven's been here the whole time he's been here most of the time half the time
01:23:54
yeah okay so they when they questioning him he says he doesn know where she is The last time he saw her she was alive That he before his submarine sank he actually dropped her off very close to where they had originally met
01:24:11
And that she was fine last time that he saw her. So everyone, he said she went to a restaurant at 1030 and that was the last time that he saw her.
01:24:22
He drove away in his little submarine and then terrible things happened to him. So they end up pulling up the sunken submarine and they test.
01:24:31
They go over it. The forensics people find blood smears and they match it to Kim Wall's DNA.
01:24:37
Just like that. Yeah. And so they're suddenly they're like, here's the thing, Peter.
01:24:41
Why is her blood on the inside of your if you if she walked off fine, then what happened?
01:24:46
So then he changes his stories, his story, singular, and he says that actually what happened was that she was coming out of the hatch and he was holding it open for her and it slipped and it cracked on her head and it killed her because it fractured her skull.
01:25:06
And so he panicked and buried her at sea. And they're like, yeah, this doesn't this doesn't track either.
01:25:15
Then on August 21st, a passing cyclist spots a washed up torso on an island southwest of Amager.
01:25:28
The poor cyclist. That poor person. And the DNA test identifies that it belongs to Kim Wall.
01:25:35
Oh, Kim. A post-mortem examination finds 15 stab wounds. Oh, my God. Mostly on the lower part of this torso.
01:25:44
Oh, my God. Yeah. So then, like, 10 days later, Copahagin police investigator Jens Moeller Jensen announces
01:25:53
the police have found a bag that was submerged in the bay with Kim Wall's clothing.
01:25:58
So it's a shirt, skirt, socks, and shoes, along with a knife weighed down by pieces
01:26:03
of lead. And then around noon that day, they find her legs and her head also in a bag, also weighted
01:26:10
down. so then he changes his story and he says um because they say so there's the skull there's
01:26:17
no skull fracture so your whole thing if she died because you dropped the hatch on her head
01:26:21
is a lie and he goes no no you're right here's what happened i was we were up above the water
01:26:26
but she was down in the submarine i was up on the on deck and there was a carbon monoxide leak
01:26:33
and she died of poison of that and i panicked so stupid because like that's a better story than
01:26:39
you hitting her head like that makes you seem like so why would you start with hitting her head
01:26:44
because he didn't think through the fact that saying hitting her head and then when they he
01:26:48
doesn't think they're going to find the body parts yeah and he's not questioning any of that he's
01:26:52
just like they're going to believe whatever i say she's gone yeah which they're never gone which
01:26:57
even if like yeah they don't believe it there's no way to prove it unless they find the body
01:27:00
right and why would you think they wouldn't when this is like then it's their job and they're going
01:27:06
the water. So, um, so then the test comes back and of course there's no, there's no sign of
01:27:12
carbon monoxide in her lungs and they're like, it's not happening. So he, he denies that he
01:27:17
intentionally killed her, but he does admit to dismembering her and throwing her into the ocean.
01:27:25
He calls it burying her at sea. Jesus. Um, insane. So on January 16th, 2018, Peter Madsen is charged
01:27:34
with murder, indecent handling of a corpse, and, quote, sexual relations other than intercourse
01:27:41
of a particularly dangerous nature. Because when they got tests back, and there were stab wounds inside the genital area as
01:27:51
well as outside. And so his trial begins on March 8th, 2017. I feel so bad for the boyfriend.
01:27:59
Oh, it's horrible. That he, like, is probably blaming himself for not going with her.
01:28:04
that's not what she was like though that's what she did stuff like that all the time that was
01:28:08
standard fare and you're like i'm in business mode of course i'm gonna go by myself to this
01:28:12
place and he's an eccentric he's an eccentric engineer he's just a regular person that's been
01:28:17
in the news he's well known around denmark and totally would not expect that yeah he's not some
01:28:23
like it's not some weirdo that she picked from under a rock this is a guy that's been in the news
01:28:27
for like almost 10 years. Shit, seriously. So she probably, yeah, she felt safe,
01:28:33
like maybe he's weird, but that's part of the story is that he's weird. So when the trial begins,
01:28:39
prosecution claims that Peter Madsen tortured Kim Wall before killing her by either cutting her throat
01:28:45
or strangling her. And they said that he believed, they believed that he had psychopathic tendencies.
01:28:53
one reason is because they found snuff films on his computer so he was watching really violent
01:29:01
not horrible porn yeah and also their people came and testified at his trial that said they
01:29:10
had seen him watch videos of decapitation and and choking to the point of asphyxiation
01:29:15
so he they knew that he was like a violent creep like the people around him yeah like
01:29:21
showed up and were like, yep, I've got a story. Also, what kind of lunatic do you have to be
01:29:27
to watch things like that where people can see you watching them? You think it's so fucking normal
01:29:34
that you are fine with people knowing about it. It's kind of like you see that every once in a while,
01:29:39
people just looking at porn on a plane where it's like, oh, you're... You think this is normal.
01:29:46
You're desensitized and you're so addicted that you're just like, fine, it's what I need.
01:29:51
And also I was like, what are you going to do? Watch porn on a plane and then...
01:29:54
Watching porn to not masturbate just watch it is so creepy I mean there so there so many angles like watch talk about creepiness but okay so anyway um when they questioned him about the
01:30:10
dismemberment uh aspect of the murder he stated on the stand i don't see how that mattered at the
01:30:17
time as she was dead he said that in court i can do whatever i want to her dead body because she's
01:30:23
Like, why are people upset? The body is dead is essentially the message he was sending.
01:30:28
So, of course, on April 25th, Peter Madsen was this year. Yeah, it just happened.
01:30:33
It just happened. Holy shit. I mean, like the murder happened at the end of last year.
01:30:38
And then the case. That's why I didn't want to do it. Yeah. Is because the case was like fresh.
01:30:43
And people really wanted you to do this story. So I think it's better that you said it for the podcast.
01:30:48
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Because it would have been dead fucking silent. Yeah. I mean, it's the worst.
01:30:54
It's sad because it's this amazing young woman who was genius, right? Yeah. Super brilliant.
01:31:01
Had this great career. Kind person with friends. Yeah. And had, yeah, was just like a lover of life.
01:31:09
Yeah. And then this guy who just clearly thought he could just kind of do whatever he wanted and make shit up,
01:31:16
like clearly thinks he's smarter than everybody else. But the cool thing is, so when he's convicted on April 25th, on all three charges, he's sentenced to life in prison, which we know in Scandinavia is very extreme.
01:31:29
But they also placed him in this thing called forvaring, which is a type of preventative custody with no time limit for prisoners believed to pose a significant danger to others.
01:31:40
So it's more than it. Yeah, it's more than the average. in fact that's the harshest penalty
01:31:47
in Danish law they're saying like even if you only get 20 years we're keeping you in this place
01:31:53
to make sure that even if 20 years comes up and you're better you're not better you have to stay in there
01:31:59
longer yeah I think that makes total sense their life sentence is 20 years and they're saying no time limit
01:32:07
right yeah so it is the harshest thing you can get and usually the only time anyone gets it is
01:32:13
if there's multiple deaths but they gave it to him on the in this case so he is said that it said
01:32:20
he's going to appeal this sentence in copenhagen's high court in september oh fuck him uh let's all
01:32:27
go to sweden let's say i don't want to go right but let's all go to sweden why not yeah no i'm
01:32:32
kidding i'm making it seem like i oh i see you're using as an excuse uh so after kim wall's death
01:32:39
her family and friends started something called the kim wall memorial fund this is amazing uh to
01:32:44
fund and support freelance female reporters especially ones that are doing stories about
01:32:50
subculture like trying to give voice to the voiceless um and in october 2017 uh she was
01:32:58
posthumously nominated for pre-europa's outstanding achievement award for journalists of the year
01:33:03
and on November 26th Swedish public television aired a documentary about her life entitled
01:33:10
The Woman Who Wanted to Tell I hope that I hope we can see that over here at some point
01:33:17
this was one of the most gruesome and closely watched cases in Scandinavian history
01:33:22
holy shit and that is the murder of Kim Wall oh Kim, I'm so sorry very short though
01:33:29
it's like there's not as much of the detail that usually happens but it's just it's just so it was so
01:33:38
crazy to see that unfolding of like then they found this and then they found that in the news
01:33:42
and i remember seeing that picture of her face in your old apartment when we first talked because
01:33:48
we talked about it when the story broke right everyone was sending it to us yeah and it was
01:33:52
kind of like wait wait wait it was so you know it's like a good story unexpected
01:34:00
unexpected what so sinister yeah disgusting and like believe or trust this guy yeah well that's
01:34:07
really sucky yeah also i i can't remember if i said this or not but the cops did find that he
01:34:12
sunk his own submarine oh sure so he was trying to hide all that they found a saw on the submarine
01:34:17
they found a screwdriver on the submarine he had no explanation as to why he needed either of those
01:34:22
on the submarine i mean like you think someone bought that submarine is now like i don't care
01:34:26
what happened i'm gonna i'm gonna drive it like how people buy houses where people have died in
01:34:30
or station wagons. Yeah. Just keep it. Yeah. Yeah. Just keep it. We don't have the money to buy a new submarine.
01:34:38
Here's we get the family into the submarine. Yeah. This is the thing I wanted to say during yours,
01:34:43
but I didn't want to be so insanely disrespectful. But there was also the element of like,
01:34:48
what if it's now the haunted station wagon? Well, that's what they say in the confession tapes is fucking Beverly Lake.
01:34:54
Who's just the miss know it all says, I just asked, there was this movie out of the time called,
01:34:59
where the car killed everyone called Christine, you know, and it was like, well, that doesn't
01:35:03
really fit this. Also, go to bed. Also, don't talk about that shit. I get to talk about on my
01:35:09
dumb murder podcast. But like, if you're she says, like, and I was joking, and I know this
01:35:14
isn't funny. And it's just like, well, then why are you saying it? We're the last people that are
01:35:19
allowed to say. Fair enough. Do you want to go first? Sure. I started watching it. So everyone
01:35:27
knows and I can't I don't think we talked about it but very tragically Anthony Bourdain committed
01:35:33
suicide a couple weeks ago um right around the same time that Kate Spade committed suicide so
01:35:41
insane uh which you know the thing that I kept reading on social media that I think is really
01:35:46
interesting is that everyone assumes that if you are rich or if you are successful that means you're
01:35:52
happy and that is absolutely not the case. As someone who's lived in Los Angeles for a long time and met lots of famous slash
01:36:00
You know, successful people, I can assure you, it has no bearing. And sometimes it's the opposite.
01:36:06
It's what makes people really unhappy. Or they're like, I have this and I'm still not happy.
01:36:11
And it makes you even more unhappy because you realize that that isn't going to solve
01:36:14
your problems. And they interpret that there's something inherently wrong with that.
01:36:19
It's super tragic. So I had never, I always heard of Anthony Bourdain. I always assumed that was an area I wasn't interested in because it was cooking.
01:36:27
Like I kind of took myself out of like... not interested. I mean, but I love Chef's Table, but I always assumed it's because the way they
01:36:33
made it was so filmic. He doesn't even really do cooking. No, I just assumed I knew what it was. I do that all the time. Like, oh, here's the show.
01:36:42
So I started watching Parts Unknown. Yeah. And it is, Parts Unknown is on Netflix.
01:36:49
Yeah. And I highly recommend it. And this also kind of does actually tie in a little
01:36:54
bit with Kim Wall. I think it's so important, just try to travel. Try to like go outside of your normal town or state or area where you grew up.
01:37:05
Try to be around people that are different than you. Try to eat food that is weird to you.
01:37:10
Try to be less comfortable, live less comfortably and experience the world more.
01:37:16
I think it's so important. And it seemed to me that's kind of what Anthony Bourdain was all about.
01:37:21
That's exactly right. It's so cool because he would just be in these places. The first episode is Myanmar, which used to be Burma.
01:37:29
And I had no idea about any of it. Every single word he said in that episode was an education to me.
01:37:34
And the fact that they went and shot it, I was like, yay, now I don't have to go there.
01:37:38
And I don't have to eat fish. But secondhand, it's such an incredible experience to kind of open your eyes to how other people live.
01:37:47
And I don't know. I recommend it so highly. It feels legitimately enriching. and then it also makes his death really, really sad
01:37:57
because he doesn't understand, and this is the truth of it, we don't understand what we're bringing to the table.
01:38:02
We don't understand what people take away from us. Or we feel overburdened by the expectations people have of us, too.
01:38:11
Yeah, but that's made up, too. You make up expectations. You don't know what people really fucking think,
01:38:15
but you don't know what they think good, and you don't know what they think bad,
01:38:19
but I think there's a certain personality type that always assumes it bad when actually it amazing And just sitting there watching it going i now i love this guy and i love this i love his life philosophy he amazing he definitely introduced
01:38:33
he definitely brought cultures to people who had never had any experience from their culture through
01:38:40
the best possible way which is their food yeah that's great well and he like he talks to all
01:38:46
these real people yeah it's not he's just so cool he's a really cool person obviously to hang out
01:38:52
with and eat with he wasn't because i think the foodie people can be a bit distancing yeah because
01:38:57
it's like a big race to name the cheese or whatever and you're just like i don't fucking know
01:39:01
and it didn't seem like that was his deal he was more appreciative and kind of like
01:39:04
look at this well what i loved about what he always did in every episode or like you know
01:39:10
lots of episodes one of the things he would do he'd go to the nicest restaurant in this city he
01:39:14
would go to the farmer's market he would go to this cafe or whatever but he would also always
01:39:19
go to someone's home and have like their grandmother make him a meal that they always
01:39:24
ate like you know this is what the peasants ate or this is the you know that everyone here grew
01:39:29
up eating this food and so that was always really eye-opening going to someone's home
01:39:34
meet the family and and not just from a like restaurant point of view or yeah he went to a
01:39:40
place in Quebec in Montreal where they make this sandwich that's so crazy looking because it's like
01:39:48
a pile it looks like it was like spam with a pile of bologna and then they fry it oh my god there
01:39:54
and there's mustard and then maybe a cheese on there or something and you're looking at it it's
01:39:59
one of those places where you can't order you can't go like no mustard for me or whatever you
01:40:03
have it as they make it and he bites into it he's just like that's delicious and then you're just
01:40:08
kind of like it's that thing it's the appreciation of i sent you guys on twitter i added you guys
01:40:14
on Twitter when he goes to Waffle House with the cook with a chef who's explaining to him why Waffle House is so great.
01:40:22
Totally. And that's a great video if you can find it. It's super good. I love that. Yeah.
01:40:28
Well, actually, it's funny because one of my loves is going to lunch by myself. I really love...
01:40:36
I did it yesterday after one of our meetings. There was a place that I had been...
01:40:40
I'll get into these fucking hour long like scroll sessions of a hashtag of a restaurant on Instagram and just look at all their
01:40:50
food I go look at their menu I pick out what I would order And I did that and realized the night before I realized on the way home the other day that I was right by there And so I went in and had lunch alone and read about my murder for this for this week and just kind of enjoyed myself And that just like this lovely little pleasure I have I don like going to see movies alone I don like any of that shit I just want to go sit and eat a really cool you know order whatever I want and have this nice lunch alone It kind of one of my favorite things
01:41:18
awesome um i also wrote a movie with my dad because my dad spent the night last night
01:41:23
and he and i accidentally got drunk and we watched um this so my my uncle michael hardstark was an
01:41:33
actor way back in the like 70s and he is in a horror a fucking can't be a shit horror movie
01:41:41
it was um brooke shield's first movie uh called alice sweet alice yes with wait is
01:41:48
Is Betty Davis in it? Is she? Oh, you would know. If you watched it, you would know.
01:41:52
Okay, well, maybe. Well, it's really campy. I feel like it should be one of those campy horror movies that everyone watches, but it's not for some reason.
01:42:01
But you can get it, I don't know, online somewhere like Amazon or one of those places.
01:42:04
He's in that movie. So what happened was he was going to be like the assistant detective.
01:42:10
There was like a main guy. It was like this famous actor who was going to be the detective.
01:42:14
And that guy got a fucking role on Broadway. so he latered off the fucking show and my uncle Michael Hardstark who looks like a cross between
01:42:22
um what's the guy from Zodiac who's so cute Jake Gyllenhaal no the other one oh Ruffalo Ruffalo
01:42:29
yeah he looks like a more pockmarked like Columbo style Ruffalo yes and he's in it and it's great
01:42:35
so everyone go watch Alice Sweet Alice also get drunk with your dad on Rosé it's so much fun
01:42:39
my dad is so hilarious and sweet I love it yeah that's really good that's a nice father's day
01:42:45
yeah like tea off marty did you see his tweet about starbucks no what'd he say he wrote a tweet
01:42:52
saying i'm i'm gonna start using the name marty at starbucks instead of martin to see if there's
01:42:57
any murderinos working at starbucks oh no he's like on board with this that mean that makes sense
01:43:03
yeah come on yeah that's so hilarious so happy happy father's day marty Oh, my dad's not on board with anything.
01:43:13
They're going to meet one day. It's going to be so fun. Oh, they'll have some beers.
01:43:16
Yeah. Thanks for listening you guys You fucking sweet angel babies Yeah thanks for everything And you know stay sexy and don get murdered goodbye elvis you want a cookie oh one two cookies
01:43:32
yeah what else vacation planning should feel like a breeze not a deep dive into countless travel
01:43:39
sites searching for the best deal with cheap caribbean's budget beach finder you can search
01:43:44
every destination and every date all in one search. You'll save time and money with the
01:43:49
Budget Beach Finder. Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget
01:43:53
Beach Bliss at your fingertips. Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach
01:43:58
Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be. Goodbye. You know that
01:44:03
fantasy where you run into your ex while looking impossibly cute and wildly unbothered? Hill House
01:44:09
makes the perfect dress for that moment. Or if you're just running errands, Hill House Home is
01:44:14
the brand behind the viral nap dress, known for its signature smocking, ultra flattering fit,
01:44:19
and comfort that makes it a favorite for just about everyone. Celebrities like Taylor Swift,
01:44:24
Olivia Rodrigo, Anne Hathaway, and Mindy Kaling have all been spotted in Hill House.
01:44:29
These dresses are the definition of versatile, perfect for running errands in the morning and
01:44:33
stylish enough for dinner or a party that night. And it's not all they carry. They started with
01:44:38
bedding back in 2016, and now you'll find bathrobes, pajamas, children's clothes, and maternity,
01:44:43
all with the cutest prints. And it's so true, the hardest time picking out one nap dress
01:44:48
because the prints are so dreamy and beautiful. But now that I have it, I'm going to wear it all day, every day.
01:44:54
I'm going to throw on my leather jacket at night and look like a total badass. Cowboy boots or cute heels, whatever it is,
01:45:00
this nap dress can make it look classy. You look like that classy lady you see at the airport.
01:45:05
Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good. Get 15% off your first order of $100 or more
01:45:10
at hillhousehome.com with code MURDER15. That's MURDER15 for 15% off at hillhousehome.com.
01:45:18
Goodbye. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
01:45:25
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Because next doesn't wait for an invitation.
01:45:30
And Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach. Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle.
01:45:37
And by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day because the future isn't some far off concept.
01:45:44
It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.