00:00:00
This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
00:00:33
Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. When a charming neurosurgeon rode into Frontier Town
00:00:39
selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room
00:00:45
and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
00:00:51
This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
00:00:58
or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. Where does summer take you?
00:01:05
Maybe it's a coastal road trip or a quiet morning with the windows wide open. Summer smells like bright citrus, warm sand,
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and endless possibilities. With Pura's smart diffusers and the new summer collection,
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00:01:20
Find your summer escape today. Visit Pura.com to learn more. Goodbye. My favorite murder
00:01:35
Hello. Hi, friends. Hey, welcome. To My Favorite Murder. This is a podcast that asks and answers the questions.
00:01:51
There's like four questions. You don't need to know what they are right now. just know that within this next, what will probably be a one hour and three minutes.
00:02:01
Oh, I was going to say 32 minutes. No, it's going to be four and a half hours. And each hour, we'll answer one question.
00:02:08
One question. It's going to be a lot like the Sphinx's riddle. What walks on four legs in the morning, blue-doo-blue, whatever.
00:02:17
But more interesting than that, less ancient. Ancient shit's a fucking snooze vest.
00:02:23
It is. So dull. There's no video games back then. There's no gossip. Everyone just built pyramids.
00:02:31
Boring. Pyramids. Boring. Until we find out there are spaceships that are going to take us off this hell's planet.
00:02:38
That's fucking right. Or brought us here because we all did something bad on a different planet.
00:02:44
And now we're really... This is jail planet? Fuck. Are you kidding me? This fucking burning trash heap of a fucking...
00:02:51
What did I call it on Instagram earlier? Or a trash fire top of a rat king. Oh. A festering rat king.
00:02:57
That would smell so bad. You know what a rat king is. Yeah. Hey, everyone, if you don't know what a rat king is.
00:03:02
Google that shit. Go Google it and look at a photo. Google image that shit. Yeah.
00:03:06
And don't try to be intellectual about it and read about rat kings. No. You just get that picture right in your head.
00:03:13
And then use your imagination. Also, find out for us if they're, go on to Snopes and find out if they're real or fake.
00:03:18
It's real. Is it real? There's photos of it. But you know how these days we live in a time where every single thing has now been proven false by BuzzFeed in some way?
00:03:28
Not our beautiful, beautiful Rat King. That's the only real thing left in this world.
00:03:32
The truth, the Rat King will rise up and save us all. That's right. Hurry the fuck up, Rat King.
00:03:38
Rat King, my God. Pick one direction to go, please. Everyone together. Together?
00:03:43
You're facing the wrong direction. Get it together. Okay, so we have breaking news.
00:03:48
We don't often have breaking news on the show. But this is about as breaking as the news can get for us.
00:03:54
And it's the insane, incredible, actual survival story of a murderino. That's right.
00:04:01
And I mean, it blew me away. I started crying. Of course. It was. So you guys, I'm sure you know at this point.
00:04:08
And everybody knows. And you can find it on Twitter. And if you go to Billy Johnson's Twitter or our Twitter, my favorite murder, my fave murder.
00:04:14
the story is on there of this woman who fucking stayed sexy and she fucking it's in cincinnati right in cincinnati she was so aware of her surroundings it's 11 o'clock in the
00:04:26
morning it's not and she's walking her dog and she's nine months nine months pregnant and she
00:04:30
notices some fucking strangely acting dude and keeps a fucking eye on him and he fucking comes
00:04:36
at her and she she fights him off and screams and and she this to me the smartest thing she did was
00:04:43
when she knew he was following her, there was no mistake. She headed toward where there were people.
00:04:48
Yeah, she headed toward a pool pool. And that's when he started chasing her. What I love about it, too, is that she wasn't even sure he was following her yet. But she was like,
00:04:57
I'm not going that way. I'm going towards where there's people because like, he wasn't even
00:05:01
creeping her out yet. Yeah, it was just like head toward people. And when he started following her,
00:05:06
like chasing her, she said, I don't know you like stay away from us. She also started yelling at him before she was even aware that he was attacking her, which I think is another pepper spray first.
00:05:16
Apologize later. It's like this person is making you uncomfortable when you're by yourself and you're a woman and you're not liking what's going on.
00:05:24
You can start fucking screaming. It's OK. You get to say whatever you want to get that person away from you.
00:05:29
And also that establishes. It's like that thing instead of saying help or whatever people when they say yell fire.
00:05:36
Right. I think what she did was so brilliant of going like, I don't know you get away from me so
00:05:41
that the people that were nearby could hear that this was not, Oh, could it be boyfriend
00:05:46
and girlfriend? Like, you know, that thing that keeps people from taking action. They're
00:05:49
like, I don't want to get involved. Who knows what those two are doing. It's like she declared
00:05:53
what was going on and then tried to fight him He punched her and then people were there to pull him off And she took a fucking beating Dude And we all seen the pictures It amazing And she
00:06:05
The baby's fine. She's fine. The baby's fine. The dog ran home. I love that they let...
00:06:11
And also the dog is fine. And it's like, you get bad boy. Don't go home. I mean, I get it.
00:06:16
The dog. But we're so... She said in the... And, you know, she was interviewed by the news and she gave this podcast credit for what she had in her mind of fighting him off and whatever.
00:06:33
I mean, it was a really lovely thing that she said that, you know, somehow this podcast has something to do with her survival, which even just the mere suggestion of that is amazing to us.
00:06:45
And it's so it's like, no, you're the reason. And we're fucking like it is this.
00:06:51
This is wild. when I was reading it I was like this is surreal that this little podcast that we
00:06:56
just started for fun has become you know and this happens on a fucking daily basis but being
00:07:02
amazed at what it's become and how many people it's inspired to go back to therapy or to go back to school
00:07:08
for forensics or to you know to connect with their sisters and stuff like it's just like and meet new friends
00:07:16
and do these beautiful people in their community that's right and fight fucking assholes off. And it's what it's what you guys are making it with yourselves. Yeah, it's like,
00:07:28
fine to give us credit. Of course, we love it and want it. But it's what you're bringing out of
00:07:34
yourselves. It's what you're seeing in yourself and then keeping in your own mind. There are
00:07:38
people who hear it and they don't, you know what I mean? It's what you're doing for yourselves.
00:07:42
And I think that's the coolest part of it is like, you know, that it's bringing something out
00:07:46
of you that is that is about you right we are so happy to be part of this community but that's just
00:07:53
all we are is part of it and to talk at you for two and a half hours a week uh and so since um
00:08:00
this woman she didn't want her name mentioned in this the press release that we read yeah and so
00:08:05
let's please respect her privacy um but as many people know and she has posted she has an etsy
00:08:11
store um called spoons and such right so cute spoons and such and i was like uh-oh but then i
00:08:19
looked at it and it's like the most gorgeous homemade jewelry not homemade that sounds like
00:08:24
macaroni on a fucking string no no no homemade in that way it's like handcrafted yes gorgeous
00:08:30
fucking pieces of jewelry it's incredible um friend of the show billy jensen the true crime
00:08:36
reporter. He sent me the link because he wanted to make sure we knew it existed and then sent a
00:08:42
picture of a bookmark that he bought that said, I fell asleep here. And it's a spoon that folds
00:08:48
over the book page. It's so cool looking. It's so cool. And the jewelry is gorgeous. I'm going,
00:08:54
like, I don't buy myself nice things and I'm going to buy myself a nice thing. And she actually made a note. You'll see the note on there, but on that Etsy shop,
00:09:01
she was like, please give me a break as I make all this myself. She was like, thank you.
00:09:05
But I love the idea that you could get some, do some early Christmas shopping and then support a fellow Marino and help her pay some of those medical bills.
00:09:15
Or, you know what, if you want to go wider, go to RAINN and you can donate there or AINN and, you know, to survivors of domestic abuse and violence and kind of makes you feel great.
00:09:26
Last week, I donated money to the ACLU in my mom's name. Yes, because she's Republican.
00:09:33
Did I tell you this? And I was in the worst because before that, I was so depressed.
00:09:39
Thank you. I was so depressed. I was like this. I just feel hopeless. And this is horrible.
00:09:42
And then I just kept thinking about my mom and how angry I am at her. Yeah. You know, because it's a personal thing.
00:09:48
Because everything's her fault. She voted and she's the one vote that made him win.
00:09:52
Right. So I just donated money and put it like as a gift. Yes. And gave her email address.
00:10:00
So she's definitely going to get an email that says, thank you for this donation.
00:10:03
Janet to the ACLU. But she, I mean, the ACLU is, she must like that. They're for good. They're for the best.
00:10:11
But people, but they don't understand. She doesn't understand. Yeah. You know what? Though, good.
00:10:17
It's not for us to make anybody understand. Let's protect ourselves. Let's make ourselves feel better. Let's take
00:10:23
this brilliant small step action. It felt like a really positive, vindictive thing that I could do.
00:10:29
And I was really, it definitely made me feel better after. 100%. Yeah. And just a little,
00:10:34
with a tiny jab. Yeah. Why not jab, jab around if you feel like it. Instead of screaming in her face about why she's killing the world.
00:10:41
Which people can't hear at this point. Right. But that really is a thing. If you are upset,
00:10:46
if you're depressed, if you're freaking out, get help someone out. If you're, if you're broke and you can't donate money.
00:10:53
Phone calls. Letter writing. Just take action. Make a little list. Do three things.
00:10:58
Make sure they're for other people and do them anonymously. and you can build the good feeling back.
00:11:05
And then, you know, everyone loves to quote that Mr. Rogers, you know, look for the helper's quote, be a helper.
00:11:11
Take it a step further. Karen, I love that. Right? Because I think in this, like, social media Twitter world we live in,
00:11:19
we're like, I'm the queen of retweet it, now you go do it. You know, that's how I am.
00:11:25
But I think it's even better, it feels even better when you can be the person that's doing it and not just the person going,
00:11:33
oh, good, I'm comforted because there's a helper. Yeah. Yeah. Taking action in even the smallest way makes a huge difference.
00:11:40
I love that. And stay fucking sane. Stay sane. Keep your feet on the ground. Don't burn out energy with rage or any of those things.
00:11:48
Just focus, you know, protect yourself. Yeah. Mental health. We going to need our mental health because it going to be a long fucking fight guys That right Speaking of justice Did we speak of justice We did We shall speak of justice So all these fucking cold cases now after a fucking Golden State Killer now all these
00:12:08
genealogy websites, there's three in the news recently, in like the past month, that have
00:12:15
been fucking solved because of ancestral DNA. Yes. So it's fucking incredible. Christy Mirak, who was a teacher who got murdered in 1992, the 1986 rape and murder in Tacoma of
00:12:30
Michelle Welch, who was 12 years old. And then in British Columbia, Jay Cook and Tanya Van
00:12:36
Cullenberg in 1987 were murdered. And those have all been solved by fucking familial DNA.
00:12:41
Yeah. So everyone, we all need to go to the site, which is GEDmatch. That's the site where all of
00:12:48
have been sent to because it's public. Oh, yeah. So you can't do it at 23andMe. Yeah, right.
00:12:52
So now I'm like, let's all... If everyone listening right now sends their fucking DNA to GED match,
00:12:57
like how maybe there's some second or third cousin, you'll never even know that.
00:13:01
They're not going to call you. You've never even met that third cousin. They're probably an asshole.
00:13:05
Maybe he's a murderer and you fucking helped just by putting your DNA in there and you'll never even know.
00:13:11
Yeah. It would be amazing. The company is called Parabon Nanolabs, which is the company that's been taking that DNA
00:13:17
and testing it and handing it over to the police to do the investigation. How much money did they give you to say that?
00:13:24
A hundred nothings. No, that's amazing. It really does feel like the wall is crumbling.
00:13:32
It has that early 2000s DNA-like ding, ding, ding feeling. How exciting, I mean, not exciting,
00:13:39
how terrified are a bunch of murderers right now? Yeah, well, it's like, yeah, the net is finally closing in on some people.
00:13:47
I can't wait till some guy just goes to and is like, I did this thing. You're going to find out because I'm freaking out about this DNA.
00:13:53
Like, I just did it. That'd be amazing. I'm just really excited. And that guy is the Zodiac Killer.
00:13:59
Ladies and gentlemen. Oh, my God. He's only 97 years old. Well, there's this other fucking case.
00:14:04
The Doodler? No. Oh, yeah, that's right. The Doodler. They're close on that one.
00:14:08
The last I read. Okay. Well, no, this is the fucking dude. This is the fucking. This is the fucking dude.
00:14:15
This is the guy, the older man killed himself. They had no clue who he was when they ran his name through, it was like 2002, when they
00:14:25
ran his name through the database to find out who he was, because they couldn't get
00:14:28
any prints or anything. It came up, his name, Joseph Newton Chandler III, came up as a boy who had died in 1945
00:14:36
at eight years old. Yes. So he stole this fucking guy's identity, and they're trying to figure out why and who he
00:14:42
was and why he was on the lamb and everyone of course is like he's the zodiac because he was in
00:14:47
fucking napa at the time right right yeah he's the bay area but we don't know yet i love that i
00:14:52
that's also the fun part that it's going backwards like that where it's like we got the guy now we
00:14:57
have to figure out where like match everything up totally it's fascinating no it's it's such an
00:15:02
exciting time not only because of that and all those things um but also because somebody uh
00:15:10
tweeted a picture picture oh no what on twitter oh god what is it um it is okay i'm gonna say the
00:15:19
people it's a it's a podcast called boundary issues okay never heard of them sorry guys um
00:15:26
and it doesn't really short shoot it doesn't describe did you just accidentally say short
00:15:32
i did say short but that's not what i was trying to say they're out of boston the description on
00:15:37
their Twitter handle is like brunch with your gal pals mixed with the worst anime you've ever loved.
00:15:43
So whatever that means. Boundary cast. They were apparently looking for visual representation of
00:15:51
my voice. And so they were looking on Google images and they found a stock photo of me.
00:15:57
What? And this is from a stock photo model. No, for some reason, this is a stock photo.
00:16:04
Maybe somebody at this company was like, yeah, we got to get on this. We're going to make a million dollars off this picture.
00:16:09
This is from when I was 25 and I did the Bob Hope Young Comedian Special. It was one of my first TV sets ever.
00:16:18
Oh, my God. She's handing it to me. Wow. You are everything I've ever hoped you would be.
00:16:24
Okay. Look at those speed eyebrows. Those eyebrows. Yeah, those are. I've been sitting in front of the mirror plucking for fucking days.
00:16:30
Those are, they're straight up Myrna Loy style. I have OCD and I can't handle myself.
00:16:37
But the hair is Midwestern soccer mom. Well, but. It's like you're a goth mid, mid, mid.
00:16:43
I'm going to stop you there. Okay. It was 1995. Okay. So the hair rules. I know.
00:16:49
For the time. I had the hair. I had the hair. And then you put it up in little clips and you twist them and shit.
00:16:56
If I can put a headband in short hair, it makes sense. People are like, who is she?
00:16:59
Pomade. Why are you using pomade? But here's what I love the most about this. A stock photo.
00:17:04
Thank you. Here's, it's the key to my beauty is in that picture. I have, my lip liner is so far outside my natural lip line.
00:17:13
I'm going close up right now. Because I have a cold sore that I'm trying to cover.
00:17:18
I see it. Can you see it? So all of my lips, I have like implant lips in a way that I've never had before or since.
00:17:27
Well, now we know. Yeah, you don't. Well, now we know you need a filler. You know, guess what, though?
00:17:33
It's too late. No, dude, we can make you look like this again. But everyone's like, but wait, I don't get it.
00:17:38
It's like a weird this. Yeah, because isn't that weird how different that makes my face look?
00:17:44
You look like such a little baby. I was a real baby on drugs. So cute. Can I tell you something else that people found?
00:17:49
Listen. Uh-oh. Is it bad? No. Well, I don't know. You tell me. Oh. Someone in the Facebook group which I totally secretly stalk found a clip of you on like Jenny what was her name jenny mccarthy show her in a tattoo parlor that right that that probably oh no i think i say that like two years after this
00:18:10
photo yeah you got your hair all twisted up and shit yeah and you're screwing the piercer yes you
00:18:16
say and i watched it and i didn't tell you i'm sorry yeah there's a handful because i already
00:18:22
found the wings clip right they'd always do something with my hair the hair people would
00:18:27
get their hands in my hair and be like i can actually do something with this hair so the
00:18:31
wings clip i have really big country western hair and everyone's like look at this wig and i'm like
00:18:35
that's my hair it's just hairspray in my hair you can do anything i love it but the jenny mccarthy
00:18:40
one i they it's like um it's kind of the bjork 90s look where it's just knotty knots all over
00:18:47
my head right and if you look good on anyone but bjork no and you just have a bald head yes you're
00:18:53
bald and i think they did it because it looked funny because i really know punk you know punk
00:18:59
but also i'd like when you have a round face it's like clearly she shouldn't have she shouldn't have
00:19:03
that um whatever i mean that's this is one of the many reasons why i hate television yeah this is
00:19:08
our new sitcom i mean our new podcast our new podcast called let's talk about my hair in the
00:19:14
90s and the drugs that I was on. There's something about that picture, though. The idea that
00:19:18
someone dug that up. There's something so delightfully terrible. It's like somebody getting your old
00:19:23
yearbook. But why is it a stock photo now? Why are they using it for stock? That I cannot explain to you.
00:19:30
It's good. I like it. It's pretty amazing. What else? Do we have any other business?
00:19:36
I don't. We have a fan cult. Oh, are we posting this week on it? Finally? On the fan
00:19:42
cult? I don't mean finally as in you. I meet Stephen. I mean, finally, as in us,
00:19:46
we're getting our shit together. So we're posting the P.O. Box unboxing video on the fan cult and a live
00:19:54
episode. Which one is it? Milwaukee? Minneapolis. Minneapolis. Night one. Oh, shit.
00:20:00
Remember? Remember? Or if you don't, go to myfavoritemurder.com, join the fan cult. You get a
00:20:06
t-shirt and an enamel pin, and you can join all the forums, and you get a bunch of
00:20:09
stuff like that. You get to join another little club. It's the club inside the club. Right. And as soon as I figure out how to
00:20:16
join it, I'm going to start posting on the forum. But my dad is doing it in the meantime for me.
00:20:21
Marty is standing in for you. We'll try to get all the families involved. That's right.
00:20:25
My sister would probably lurk for sure, but she wouldn't want anyone to know she was there.
00:20:31
And yeah, those live shows, I think people are going to be excited because we've been
00:20:36
asked for a long time. So we're going to start putting those up on the reg. and then of course all kinds of wonderful content uh for you recipes and um videos videos songs yeah
00:20:50
poems think poem steven's gonna write a poem every week oh we haven't actually you know it needs to
00:20:56
go up asap steven a picture of your new haircut steven has a summer look that actually is not that
00:21:02
different than me in the stock photo in 1995 and it is a look as in like lewk like it's got it's
00:21:09
Scott Buckingham attitude. Talk to us about the haircut, Stephen. You know, I mean, it was...
00:21:16
I feel like he's going to... No, I... It's on Oprah. No, it's a very... I was a very self-conscious thing
00:21:20
where I think I've seen a lot of photographs of myself with the huge beard and the...
00:21:24
You were getting... And the long hair. And I was like, you know what? It's time to freshen up.
00:21:28
So... Yes. Just back to the mustache. And yeah, just a nice little... It's getting hot in LA, so...
00:21:34
You deserve it. You deserve a nice... You know, take care of yourself. It looks great.
00:21:38
It makes you feel good. It looks really good with the headphones on. Yes. We're going to get the same haircut.
00:21:42
Yeah. It's podcasting hair. Mustache too? Realistic. Mustache? Absolutely. I'll just stop shaving.
00:21:48
Yeah. I can do a mustache. I'd say in four days. Well, you look great. Yeah. We support you.
00:21:56
We support your look, but also you need to start putting some content on the fucking
00:21:59
fan called Steven. Now that we got the compliments out of the way, what the fuck?
00:22:04
Get your shit together. Come on. Put your personal shit on there. Save it. Are we?
00:22:09
Yeah, you're raising your hand. Miss Hartzard? Yes, Karen? Yes, Miss Kilgara? Just this one thing, and this is local news.
00:22:17
This is the local news segment of the show. Los Angeles. Lesson in this. Hold on.
00:22:24
Are we going to talk about the very first episode we ever did? It's called episode number one.
00:22:28
Oh, yeah. We talk about like the first thing we talk about is a fucking dude who gets in a car accident
00:22:33
on a freeway right near us and severs half of his body and lands on a fucking, what's it called?
00:22:41
What do they call it? The freeway sign. An exit sign. It's kind of a theme. And now episode 100, what is this?
00:22:49
27. We're getting back to that same thing that we started in episode one. Because the 110
00:22:57
freeway in Los Angeles during rush hour. Asshole. This is like closing down the sidewalk in New York City.
00:23:07
Like, I can't even explain how much this is not okay. It's like shutting down an entire airport.
00:23:12
Yeah. Because this city sucks. This city sucks. It's planned terribly. There's never not traffic.
00:23:19
It's crazy. And the 110 is basically how everybody gets downtown. Everybody. And to get to work if you're on the west side, if you're on the east side, if you work downtown.
00:23:27
Nobody cares. It's a main artery. Yeah. This guy this morning during drive time gets up onto one of those freeway signs.
00:23:36
Now, I like what he and a couple people wrote this, too. He was he's basically saying pollution is killing.
00:23:42
Let's stop killing each other and get rid of pollution. Definitely. Great message.
00:23:46
100 percent. And he was at least entertaining and funny. Yeah, he was doing funny stuff.
00:23:50
He was shirtless with some jean shorts. Of course, all the cops and firemen had to go up there and be like, dude, you have to get down.
00:23:57
He's a protester. He's not doing it. They put those big crazy stuntman air pillow things underneath the sign so that when he gets off
00:24:07
he has to just jump off and or like if he if he does jump yeah then he can't hurt himself yeah
00:24:13
like if he's crazy and he's going to uh it's going to be a bad suicide situation but instead
00:24:19
what he does is he kind of scuttles away from the cops that have climbed up onto this fucking
00:24:24
which also like a they're fucking risking their own lives yeah and they have so many other real
00:24:29
emergencies to be tending to at that fucking moment yeah so fuck this guy especially in downtown
00:24:33
yeah and it's 8 30 in the fucking morning all these poor people have to go to fucking work oh
00:24:37
i mean i love i think pollution is a terrible thing it's terrible but you're and you're not
00:24:42
if the story's about you being a dick now not about pollution well because yeah it's a good
00:24:46
attention getter but it the shock waves also if you do something like that and you shut down a
00:24:52
freeway in la i i'm surprised people didn't try to kill him i mean that's the kind of shit where
00:24:56
Like road rage is a real thing here. And people, they were, it wasn't just like, oh, some cars can go by on the side.
00:25:03
Stop the freeway. Entirely shut down the 110. I can't even imagine. Those poor people that live on those streets like near USC.
00:25:09
I hate him. But here's what's genius. He scuttles away from the cops when they're like, you have to get down.
00:25:14
And then he goes over to the side and does a fucking backflip off of the street sign.
00:25:18
That's right. As if he's at the public pool. Yep. And you know, he's like, I'm going to prison for a while.
00:25:24
Yeah. So I'm going to make this fun. I'm going to and maybe I'm still on some mushrooms from my mushroom party last night, whatever.
00:25:31
But then the very end and someone wrote this. It made me laugh really hard. Yeah.
00:25:36
The she wrote. It's so funny at the end because he kind of stays in the middle where he lands.
00:25:42
Yeah. Cops are trying to grab him to get him off. Yeah. And he has his hands in the air, but he's not getting off.
00:25:47
Yeah. So they can't. They're trying to get on to get him off. Yeah. It turns into a little bit of like a physical comedy bit.
00:25:53
and it's like and the girl that wrote it goes those things are so fucking hard to get off of.
00:25:59
What an asshole. It's so true. I hate him. The cops are all you can tell they're livid
00:26:04
and they're fucking just trying to arrest him. Yeah. And he's like they're sweating.
00:26:08
Bro, don't tase me dude. Oh my god. You know that's some fucking poor girl named Stacy's
00:26:12
ex-boyfriend and she's like so embarrassed right now. Or has someone like I've gone on a Tinder date
00:26:17
with that guy. Yeah. You know? He left his shirt in my car. It was so weird. Oh, the shirtless guy
00:26:23
that brought me to the restaurant. I just hate shorts and pollution. I love it. Those are his two of the least favorite things.
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00:28:26
who got first this week that was breaking um steve new hair steve what was last week oh i think
00:28:37
I went first. Did you? Wait. Consulting the notes. Who went first? Wait. Oh, you go
00:28:47
first. I go first. This is Karen Kilgara. Good night. I'm going to take a nap. This is
00:28:52
lip implant Kilgara reporting. You close your eyes. Put your feet up above your head.
00:28:59
Like I do. Georgia just turned into the letter L. um okay so with all the with the very bad feelings that are in a cloud around us like pollution
00:29:12
like this terrible pollution i will say this coming home from petaluma having visited my
00:29:17
family and then driving back down this city is it's disgusting it's shockingly brown it's so
00:29:24
i didn't you don't even notice you think the sky is blue and then you're like well that's actually
00:29:28
not blue. And it's like driving down the five when you get behind Burbank, you know, you're
00:29:37
kind of like on that spot. So you get almost all the you get the pollution that's kind of
00:29:42
in general, but then you get it all the way downtown. Yeah, it's, it's so it's like the
00:29:47
air is tan. Yeah, it's very disturbing. It is. So backflip, you were right. But why did
00:29:53
I say that Oh because so with all the bad things that are happening it very good for us like I so happy I went and saw my family got to see Nora got to hang out with the fam got to have a nice drive home
00:30:06
and listened to about 40 episodes of the legendary podcast Criminal, which we've all listened to.
00:30:15
So good. So many amazing stories. And of course, my favorite thing is when people are telling their own story firsthand in some way.
00:30:22
and so this one I wanted to tell because I think we've all heard this story on Dateline and on
00:30:28
all of the shows but in this episode of Criminal it's told firsthand from this woman's point of view who was in it
00:30:39
and involved in it and the whole thing is kind of as awful as the story is it's also feel good which we fucking
00:30:45
need right now. Well we're not going to have that by the end of the episode because mine's not
00:30:48
No and I don't think people are coming here for the direct feel good. Right. But I just want,
00:30:53
as I sat down, because I was going to do Georgia Lee Moses this week because I was in Petaluma
00:30:58
and she's the girl, the 12 year old girl who's still a cold case. She was murdered
00:31:03
and left by the side of the road. At the same time, Polyclass was, but Polyclass got way more attention.
00:31:07
Yeah, because Polyclass's family was there. There are people who, they didn't know Georgia Moses was gone
00:31:13
for a couple of days. Like it's the, the difference in everything in those two stories
00:31:18
is so stark and awful. but Georgia Moses still has friends who knew her from junior high they have a Facebook page
00:31:26
they still talk about it and they moved there was a memorial next to the 101 freeway which was near
00:31:31
where her body was dumped and when they did they just did a ton of reconstruction on that part of
00:31:37
the freeway they had to move the memorial and people were really really upset it's like you
00:31:41
can't just move this is meaningful they moved it in front of the Petaluma City Hall which I think
00:31:47
is so beautiful and important and like just even doing that slight research made me happy yeah well
00:31:53
maybe that can be one of those cases that are finally fucking solved by yes ancestral dna the
00:31:58
thing is it ha i think all in all these cases or you know like a major part of it is that there's
00:32:05
someone somewhere that's just fighting for it still waiting bugging people and saying please
00:32:10
test this please test this yeah um which we all know and every time we do you you do them way more
00:32:16
than me of the cold cases. So anyway, that's what I was going to do. And then I when I sat down after
00:32:22
all the news this morning, and everything that's tough, I was like, maybe something less tough.
00:32:28
Yeah. So this, this was a cool story to hear on criminal. And also I got, there's a really good
00:32:35
article in the Dallas News that was reprinted from August 3 2012. So this starts October 12 1984.
00:32:44
and we're in Dallas, Texas. It's a woman named Angie Simota. She's a student at Southern Methodist University,
00:32:53
which is right there in Dallas. And she's described by her friend and in every article or whatever.
00:33:00
And this is a thing that we come up against a lot because, of course, the majority of stories that we hear
00:33:05
are about blonde, beautiful women. That's a news get. If a blonde, beautiful mother is killed, you know, that's a story that everybody sinks their teeth into.
00:33:21
And so this is another one of those stories. She was in a sorority. She was a sorority girl.
00:33:27
She was really fun and vivacious and lovely and beautiful. But she also was super smart.
00:33:32
She was a double major in computer science and electrical engineering. Holy shit.
00:33:40
So she clearly wanted to be like a computer person or knew that that was going to be the future.
00:33:47
And so she, you know, that's why her friends called her a triple threat. And so basically the majority of this episode of Criminal, they're interviewing a woman named Sheila Gibbons Wysocki.
00:34:00
And she, Sheila was Angela's roommate freshman year at Southern SMU, we'll call it.
00:34:06
Okay. I feel so uncomfortable using shortened terms for colleges as if I fucking went there or anywhere.
00:34:14
But SMU. You know, good old SMU. And then you're like, go sea snakes. Herky. Go sea snakes.
00:34:21
Sea snakes. You can't call them the sea snakes. Maybe that's what they are. That is what they are.
00:34:27
The sea snakes. The Southern Methodist sea snakes. All that, like, alliteration, it really trips people up, and then they lose the game.
00:34:35
And then they have to see a snake. See a snake. Okay, so Sheila and Angela are paired their roommates freshman year of college.
00:34:46
And as, you know, vivacious and outgoing as Angela is, Sheila, she's a psych major.
00:34:53
She's a little bit more introverted, a little more cautious, really not the same type.
00:34:59
She doesn't drink. And when they first lived together, Angela had a boyfriend that she hated.
00:35:05
that Sheila hated. Okay. And was like, so, but then Angela broke up with that guy
00:35:11
and then the two of them started hanging out all the time. Okay. And so, she, Sheila tells a lovely story
00:35:17
of how they used to go drive down a place called Forest Lane where basically you just drive around
00:35:21
and that's how you met guys in like, in that area. Yeah. Which is so cute and so country.
00:35:26
Yeah. It reminded me of, in Padeluma, we had in the 80s in high school, there was cruising.
00:35:31
You just drove up and down the boulevard. Let's see who's out right now. Yeah. and like yell into other people's cars and then just drive away um that's how i always did it um
00:35:40
you'll think of me later bye uh so so anyway that's what they did and that you know uh sheila
00:35:48
has all these fond memories of how fun they were and that when they would like when the their groups
00:35:54
of friends would party she was just the designated driver so she still hung out and had fun but just was kind of more on the more conservative side yeah then when it uh when the next year angie decides she
00:36:08
wants to be in a sorority she doesn't want to live in a sorority house because she started dating
00:36:12
a new guy his name's ben he's older she wants to be able to like kind of live a more independent
00:36:18
life so she moves into a condo off campus but she and sheila still stay in touch and are still
00:36:23
friends. So in the weekend of October 12, 1984, it's the big game between, again, even
00:36:32
saying their full names. The Sea Snakes versus the... No, this is now, well, you know the mascot for the University of Texas, of course, the
00:36:41
famous... Cowboy boot. The fighting cowboy boot going up against the University of Oklahoma.
00:36:50
And they're fighting tumbleweed. The kind of boot just kicking the tumbleweeds ass.
00:36:56
Yeah. The tumbleweed coming in and putting little spikes down the boot. Yeah. Or making everyone kind of depressed.
00:37:01
Just like blowing by and being like, oh, fuck. And quitting the game. Just quitting the football game because they're bummed out.
00:37:07
Keeps going. Good job, tumbleweed. Did you see really quickly? There's like this town that got overran by tumbleweeds.
00:37:13
Wasn't it like Vegas or Nevada somewhere? Yes. It was somewhere. Arizona. Somewhere that has tumbleweeds.
00:37:18
Okay, everyone. It like it's like the creepiest fucking thing. Look it up. There's video.
00:37:24
And it's like two story houses and the tumbleweeds reach the second fucking story.
00:37:29
And it kind of just makes you think of like, it looks like spiders. It's crazy. Anyways.
00:37:33
It's such a good video. It's just like someone driving in a car and then these humongous, not like one tumbleweed
00:37:38
that crosses the road in a Western, huge tumbleweeds that are just piling up that they're like,
00:37:45
can someone come and get these out of our yard? It's good stuff. Okay. Okay. So, of course, the boots are kicking the tumbleweeds asses.
00:37:52
No, I don't know. This was like a famous game. It was called the Red River Showdown.
00:37:58
And it was also the same weekend as the it was the opening weekend of the Texas State Fair.
00:38:03
OK, so there's a shit ton of people out and about. And so Angie wants to go out and she gets her friend Anita Cadala and she goes bar hopping.
00:38:14
And they call a guy that Angie had met previously, also at a bar. And his name is Russell Buchanan.
00:38:23
Now, Russell Buchanan's older than them. They're sophomores. He's graduated. He's 23.
00:38:28
He's getting ready to go to graduate school. He's an architect. He's studied or he's gotten his degree in architecture and that's what he's going to become.
00:38:36
So he's not, I think she, I mean, the frat boy. No, exactly. He's kind of like a cool older guy that they met and it's like, come drink with us.
00:38:45
Yeah. And and then Angie's boyfriend, Ben, he didn't go out that night because he had to get up.
00:38:52
He was construction construction company manager. So he had to get up really early in the morning.
00:38:57
So he's like, no, you you go have your fun. So they went bar hopping that night and everywhere they went.
00:39:04
People said she she knows everybody everywhere. She is this she became the social chair of the sorority she joined.
00:39:10
So she was just kind of like one of those people. and so around 1 a.m they go home so Angie drops off first she drops off Russell at his house
00:39:25
which is a five minute walk from her apartment then she drops off her friend Anita then she
00:39:29
drives over to her boyfriend Ben's house that's about a half an hour away just to say good night
00:39:35
and basically it sounded like she said like you're a nerd for not coming out with us whatever you
00:39:40
know cute cuteness then she drives home okay um at about 145 in the morning ben gets a call
00:39:46
and angie's saying talk to me i'm i'm freaked out right now there's a guy in my house and he's he's
00:39:54
just waking up he doesn't get what's going on and she's trying to talk to him in code at first
00:39:59
um and he doesn't understand what she's saying and then finally she says i'm freaking out because
00:40:05
there's a stranger in my house and she basically says some guy knocked on the door and asked if he
00:40:08
could use the bathroom and use the phone. And so I'm really scared. And she let him in. And she's
00:40:14
like, let's just pretend we're on the phone while he's here until he leaves. Stay on the phone with
00:40:17
me. Exactly. Oh, no. Yeah, exactly. So as he started to catch on and going, wait, what? Right,
00:40:25
right. As he's asking her, like, how did you meet this guy? Whatever. The phone goes dead.
00:40:30
So he calls her back. There's no answer. He starts freaking out, drives over to the apartment.
00:40:36
and because of his job even though it's 1980 fucking four and this is pre-9-1-1 pre-DNA
00:40:43
pre-cell phones he has got a cell phone in his truck because he's this construction site manager
00:40:48
so in the episode of criminal they say the cell phone took up like the almost the entire
00:40:53
like front dash of this truck but he did have a phone in his car so he just kept on calling her
00:41:00
on his drive over and of course no one answered so he gets there the door's locked no one's
00:41:06
opening the door. He's knocking. No one's responding. So he goes back, calls the police.
00:41:11
He has to call information to call the police and the police show up. And there's a in the
00:41:18
Dallas News article I read, there's a police officer who says she was on the case and she
00:41:23
was 20 years old. She was like a rookie herself. And she they had had this crazy weekend because
00:41:30
there's so many more people in town than normally are. And then they get this call. And she says
00:41:35
the second they pulled into the apartment complex, she had a bad feeling and it just kept getting worse.
00:41:41
And she was like, it was the worst feeling. So they open, they get the manager's key.
00:41:46
They open Angela's apartment door and her partner, as she's walking around the front,
00:41:51
she seeing Angela shoes in the kitchen and looking around there And she hears her part her partner in the back bedroom saying she back here And Angela murdered body is laying nude on her bed She been stabbed 18 times
00:42:06
Oh, my God. This is really graphic. She was stabbed so violently that her heart was outside of her chest.
00:42:12
Oh, my God. Just horrible. And that woman who is the officer says, yeah, she says she's never forgotten.
00:42:22
No. No. And you wouldn't. And yeah, it's just worst case scenario. So the police collect the blood and semen samples from this crime scene.
00:42:33
They scrape her fingernails and they keep all that evidence. But it's, again, 1984.
00:42:39
And immediately, of course, there are three very obvious suspects that the police identify.
00:42:44
Ben McCall, Angie's current boyfriend, Russell Buchanan, the guy that was out with them at the bar that night.
00:42:50
And then that ex-boyfriend of Angie that Sheila did not like, who actually threatened Angie with a knife when they broke up.
00:43:00
Oh, my God. So, you know, Sheila's instincts were right. But they find that the blood on the scene was the blood type non-secreter.
00:43:12
Right. Which was the way they typed it back then. and Angie's boyfriend, Ben, and the bad ex were both immediately cleared
00:43:19
because they were secretors, but Russell Buchanan is a non-secreter. So the cops are immediately like, this is our guy.
00:43:28
A secretor is defined as a person who secretes their blood type antigens into body fluids
00:43:32
and secretions like the saliva in your mouth and mucus in your digestive tract and respiratory cavities.
00:43:39
Basically, what this means is that a secretor puts their blood type into these body fluids.
00:43:44
Okay. So a non-secreter is someone who doesn't have their blood type in their body.
00:43:48
So you can't type it through fluid. Right. They couldn't at the time. Yeah. Cool.
00:43:52
I think that they still can't because they don't secrete it. We haven't evolved.
00:43:59
All right. Okay. So it's all about Russell Buchanan now. Okay. And his story is a little weird.
00:44:05
Okay. Because when the cops show up at his apartment Monday morning to say that Angela Samada is dead and has been murdered,
00:44:12
Russell Buchanan acts like he has no idea and does hasn't and the cops are like so you haven't
00:44:18
watched the news and you haven't read the newspaper and he's like no actually the morning after I got
00:44:25
dropped off I woke up really early I went to my friend's wedding I left from my friend's wedding
00:44:30
for a trip to visit my family in Houston that I've had planned for a while and I just got back when
00:44:37
I got back Sunday night I immediately started working because I had a bunch of work to do
00:44:41
and yeah I have I I haven't I don't know anything that doesn't seem that weird right I mean well
00:44:47
yeah for from his point of view but the cops see it as uh you got dropped off and then you left town
00:44:53
that's all they are seeing and so they're like and you're a non-secretor right so they bring him in
00:45:00
and they give him a lie detector test and he passes it and that of course they're like what
00:45:05
how did this happen this is the guy clearly and so they put him under surveillance and they're
00:45:12
watching him and in the over the next six months they bring him in repeatedly to question him and
00:45:18
to test his story and to talk about that trip to visit his family and over and over and as that
00:45:25
happens and he doesn't call a lawyer because he's trying to be he's trying to work with the police
00:45:31
and he's trying to help the case. But finally, his family says, they're just going to pin this on you
00:45:38
so you have to get a lawyer. He finally decides to do that when the police say, actually, we don't think your lie detector tests.
00:45:47
We don't think you passed it. We looked at it again and it's inconclusive. And that's when he knew,
00:45:52
this is going to get bad for me. So he lawyers up and the lawyer basically calls the lead detective
00:45:57
and says, release my client or charge him. And so they have to release him. Then the cops find out that Russell's about to leave the country because he's going to graduate school for architecture in London.
00:46:09
So now they're like, we've got to get this guy. What the fuck? So they start talking to Angela's friends and they meet Sheila.
00:46:18
And Sheila tells them Sheila knows all about Angie's other friends and about her life.
00:46:23
and they start talking to Sheila more and more and finally convince her to go out to dinner with Russell
00:46:32
and ask him about all the details of that to see if his story is the same. She wears a wire.
00:46:39
Sting operations. Yeah, that sounds fucking awesome. They put a wire on her and she, in the criminal episode, goes,
00:46:48
the one thing I did wrong was that I rode in his car to the restaurant where I was like,
00:46:53
Holy shit. So she and she goes, I realized as I was doing that, that that was a bad idea.
00:46:58
But she basically had dinner with the person she thought murdered. She thought he did it.
00:47:04
Yes, she did. And she was basically asking all the questions they told her to ask.
00:47:08
And his story was consistent. It was the same thing. I don't think it's him. He said he said all the same stuff.
00:47:14
And so they basically when it came time for him to go to London to go to graduate school, he left.
00:47:20
OK. And the case goes cold. OK. I really don't. I keep waiting to remember this story, and I don't know it.
00:47:27
And I'm excited. And I also don't think he did it. Okay. But that's my guess right now.
00:47:32
Okay. I like a mid-story guess. Okay. Just to be like, because, you know, in these things, anything can happen.
00:47:39
That's right. So, sorry, I have to catch up to myself. What the fuck does that say?
00:47:47
Anything can happen. There's a moth flying around, and I apologize. Oh, that's right.
00:47:52
Oh, also, I forgot to mention, the police told Sheila before she wore the wire and had dinner with Russell that he had failed his job.
00:48:00
lie detector test and that he had fled the city after the murder. They basically told her the
00:48:08
story and really hit the narrative of like, this guy's, this is our guy. Yeah. And we need to get
00:48:13
this guy before he leaves for London. Yeah. So when they can't get any evidence and there's,
00:48:18
there's nothing to prove and he is able to leave for London and go to graduate school, you know,
00:48:23
they all kind of just go, that was the guy and nothing else is ever investigated. And, um,
00:48:29
Sheila doesn't Sheila can't go back to college yeah she like can't deal with it and she she
00:48:35
drops out of college two years later she meets the man who will be her future husband
00:48:39
and they end up um moving to Tennessee together to Nashville I believe or Tennessee I should say
00:48:46
how would I fucking know where they moved um they moved to Tennessee and they have two sons okay
00:48:51
I think her new husband did it. What about the sons? So she's living there and she's got her life there.
00:49:03
But it's always bothered her that A, her friends never got injustice. She's the one who solves it.
00:49:10
I know this. I don't know what happens. I just remember reading about her, but I don't know what happens.
00:49:14
This is the feel good part. I love her. Okay, so it really bothers her that Russell Buchanan is in London.
00:49:23
Now he's, I think, at some point he comes back. He becomes a very successful architect, and she's really pissed about it.
00:49:32
And she's like, my friend who could have been a genius computer, whatever she wanted, is dead.
00:49:38
No one's paying for it, and this guy's living his life, and he's the guy. yeah so she then at one point she joins a bible study group and the way she tells the story is
00:49:48
that one night in bed she was trying to get her reading done for this group and out of the corner
00:49:53
of her eye boring can you imagine just trying to read the bible in bed oh hello that was all my
00:49:59
entire childhood theology like we got taught that shit in high school that sounds so boring i don't
00:50:06
know any of the presidents but i we could talk about fucking samuel 5 35 all day i don't know
00:50:12
if that's an actual chapter or um is that a beer and that's a kind of it's a kind of yes
00:50:17
samuel the great is and lo the dark brew washed among your hair and conditioned it
00:50:26
and it fishes and loaves and it conditioned the world and it and lo amen my only begotten son
00:50:34
So she's sitting there trying to get her reading done. And she says she doesn't know if she fell asleep or if it was a vision or what,
00:50:41
but she knows for a fact that suddenly Angela's standing next to her bed. And that's when she knew it's time to stop thinking about this and do something.
00:50:50
And she, right that moment, picks up the phone and calls the Dallas police and says,
00:50:55
my friend Angela was murdered in 1984. Nothing's ever come of it. What? Is somebody going to do something?
00:51:01
and she from there begins to call the police in a one-year period she called the dallas police
00:51:07
750 times holy shit she just kept calling and she knew she said it wasn't like she was demanding or
00:51:14
angry yeah she basically was begging and just saying please please open the case please look
00:51:20
at the evidence can someone please do something and you hear those stories about the long-time
00:51:25
ones you just hear that like yeah they don't call and yell they like the dad will just call
00:51:29
I'm just reminding you I'm still here. Yeah. Hey, hi, how are you? Send Christmas cards.
00:51:34
Right. Just want to let you know, like just not letting it get out of your mind.
00:51:37
Right. Because and as everyone knows, the police have current cases to solve on top of these cold cases.
00:51:43
And this was back. So now it's the, you know, the 90s, the 2000s. Sorry, it's the 2000s.
00:51:50
And they still didn't have a cold case unit. No, that's like a pretty new thing for a lot of places.
00:51:55
Yeah. so she's basically calling to say hey can hey this old thing that like you don't even have time
00:52:01
for can you please make time for it yeah so every time she would talk to a different detective
00:52:05
every time she'd get bounced around um she was known as the as the pita the pain in the ass
00:52:11
that was the pain in the ass he's trying to get her friend's brutal murder murder song yeah yeah
00:52:16
no but i mean you're right okay at one point uh one of the policemen that she's ends up talking
00:52:21
to on the phone tells her, you know, some cases just aren't meant to be solved. And she thinks,
00:52:26
yeah, she thinks to herself, this one is going to be. And that's when she so she because of the
00:52:36
murder, and the way it affected her life, when that when she where she lived with her family
00:52:40
was in a gated community, because she was felt so unsafe all the time. And she would when she was
00:52:46
calling these cops in Dallas and talking, she would talk to the guy that was the head of the
00:52:51
security of this, of the, where they live, their neighborhood where they lived. And at one point,
00:52:56
and she was complaining, she couldn't get any movement that she would ask them, you know,
00:53:01
or tell them about stuff and they didn't seem to care. And the man who was, um, the head of
00:53:06
the security at this gated community said to her, um, I can sponsor you and you can become a private
00:53:12
investigator and you can start looking into this yourself because back then you needed a sponsor
00:53:17
and then you had to take a test and so she was like that's what I'm gonna do I love him love him
00:53:22
love her and he yeah how cool of it of him to realize this is a woman on a mission that needs
00:53:29
help totally and he's like I'll sponsor you do this thing so she said she's she talks about it
00:53:35
on criminal that she studied like it was a Harvard entrance exam. She had her sons quoting like civil law to her.
00:53:44
They still remember it to this day as adults. And she basically took this test and became a private investigator herself.
00:53:51
Wow, because then you can get the case files, right? Yeah and she has all this access and there much more respectability with the police When she calling she not just some lady Totally Suddenly she an investigator that there
00:54:05
And she also had to work on, you know, when she first started as a private investigator,
00:54:09
she was doing like cheating cases and all those kinds of things. But the only reason she got her license was to solve Angela's murder.
00:54:17
Okay. But she's actually working as a real private investigator simultaneously. That's so cool.
00:54:22
She actually, her quote, there's an amazing quote in one of the articles I read where she said, the FBI has nothing on a worried mother.
00:54:30
I'm a better investigator. So in 2006, after years and years of calling and she made a war room in her house where she like had all the evidence.
00:54:42
And she had finally got gotten a hold of a detective named Linda Crum. and she said in her first conversation with Linda
00:54:52
she knew it was going to be different because suddenly somebody was listening and they were talking
00:54:56
and there was, you know, this was now a world where cold cases were a thing you went into
00:55:01
and that was becoming a department and all that stuff. So she talks to Linda. Linda finds out that they do have,
00:55:08
they have blood samples, they have fingernail scrapings, they have semen and Linda's like,
00:55:12
we're going to send it to the lab. Hell yes, you are. Yeah. And in 2008, they get a hit.
00:55:18
And they find out that the DNA at the crime scene belongs not to Russell Buchanan and not to anybody that they investigated, but to a man named Donald Andrew Bess, who was when they in 2008, when they found out serving a life sentence in Huntsville for rape.
00:55:38
Oh, my God. He had been out on parole for rape in 1984. he saw Angie the night that everybody was out in Dallas for the big weekend
00:55:50
and became fixated on her. He followed her home and knocked on her door and asked if he could use her bathroom and use her phone.
00:55:59
Gained access to her apartment, which at the time, and this was a product of the day,
00:56:05
but I'm sure he was very polite and very friendly and probably acted worried. The man was six feet tall.
00:56:12
and weighed 350 pounds. Holy shit. There's no need to open. You don't open a door for somebody like that.
00:56:19
Yeah, now we know. Like you don't even open your door. You don't open the door. You don't say no, you can't come in.
00:56:23
You just don't open the fucking door. You don't open the door. And there's no reason that a man like that
00:56:28
needs your help personally. Yeah. He could go to a gas station. There's lots of other places.
00:56:33
Anything. So anyway, but at the time, she's just back in from the club. It could have even been that thing
00:56:40
where she gets in, turns around, shuts the door, and then there's a knock. Yeah.
00:56:44
She thinks it's someone like her neighbor. Yeah. Or, yeah, somebody that just passed her in the, you know, there's the way your mind goes.
00:56:51
You're like, this is fine. Yeah. But then once he's in the apartment, she immediately gets the bad feeling.
00:56:56
She's like, what did I fucking do? Yeah. So she calls her boyfriend. And again, pre-9-1-1.
00:57:01
Yeah. You can't, if there's no emergency things set up to help you and support you, you don't
00:57:07
know what else to do. It's also that thing of like, I'm like, well, she should have just walked out of the house, you know, and like left.
00:57:13
But it's like, yeah, you don't go where though to knock on the neighbor's door. I don't know.
00:57:17
Yeah, but I like that. Knock on the neighbor's door or just grab your keys and get into your car.
00:57:21
Right. But the thing and like the thing of like, I don't want to leave the stranger alone in my house.
00:57:25
It's like at this point, if you've got some worry going on, just get the fuck out of there.
00:57:29
Your shit will be fine. Grab your cat and get out of there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what the police theorize is that he gained access to her apartment, you know, surely by being charming and nice.
00:57:41
And then once he got in there, he attacked her. And when Ben got to the apartment and knocked on the door, he was still in there.
00:57:50
They think that's when he stabbed her to keep her quiet. Yeah. Oh, my God. So in June of 2010, Russell, they tried Donald Bess for capital murder.
00:58:04
The jury deliberates for one hour. And this is after the defense. It's very upsetting.
00:58:11
Sheila talks about this in an episode of Criminal. The defense brought out her outfit and talked about how she was dressed provocatively and that basically she was asking for it.
00:58:22
In 2008. Yeah. They completely tried to destroy her reputation. They tried to talk about her.
00:58:31
They tried to act like she was getting around town type of stuff. Can you imagine being on that jury and just being like, what the fuck is going on?
00:58:38
It's almost like convicting in an hour is telling the defense, fuck you. Yes, it is.
00:58:43
That was not a fucking defense. That's exactly right. And this DNA match was almost 100%.
00:58:49
Yeah. It was astronomical. It's almost like they weren't even saying he raped and murdered her.
00:58:56
They were saying. She deserved it. Right. Well, he couldn't help himself. Exactly right.
00:59:00
Because of her. Exactly right. And that jury came back and was like, no, no, no, no, no.
00:59:04
How about, go fuck yourself. How about he gets the death sentence? Yeah? Yeah. He's found guilty.
00:59:10
He's given the death sentence. Sheila drove 650 miles from Nashville to Dallas to be there for the trial.
00:59:17
Oh, my God. With her older son. Oh. Yes. And then Donald Best is still on death row and he just lost his most recent appeal.
00:59:26
Two years after he was convicted in February of 2012, Russell Buchanan met Sheila Gibbons-Wysocki.
00:59:37
And because they both went to Dallas to film the episode of Dateline about Angela's murder.
00:59:43
And when Sheila met Russell, she said to him, I need your forgiveness. and then she explained
00:59:50
everything that she did to help the police try to convict him and she explained how you know they told her he fail that basically the storyline was that he was guilty and and they needed help getting And she always thought he was guilty She always thought he was guilty
01:00:05
And Russell Buchanan said to her, you are just doing what you thought was right for your friend.
01:00:11
And then when Russell Buchanan's name was cleared entirely, the Dallas police apologized to him.
01:00:18
The current investigator pulled out his file and said, you've really been through something.
01:00:23
and he was quoted as saying in the Dallas News that quote it wasn't their fault if that was your daughter
01:00:36
that had been killed wouldn't you want the police department to use whatever means
01:00:40
necessary to find the truth I would as far as I'm concerned the Dallas police department
01:00:45
does not owe me an apology they never did I'm grateful for the work and the service they did
01:00:49
that's it period how fucking rad What is that guy? Oh my God, yeah. And the part that I love the most, Sheila Wysocki, I hope I'm pronouncing her last name right, but I think I am.
01:01:03
She now has her own private investigation firm in Nashville called Without Warning.
01:01:08
And she started out only, she was only doing it for her friend Angela so that she could solve that murder.
01:01:14
She said that she gets thousands of calls from families with cold case murder cases that they need help with.
01:01:21
and she does she works on about five a year oh my god and uh yeah when it is the the kind of final
01:01:30
moment at the end of the episode of criminal phoebe what's her last name judge yes love her
01:01:36
so much with the greatest i'm phoebe judge i'm a phoebe judge and this she's so human yeah she's
01:01:44
so good at it so good at that good radio stuff yeah phoebe judge says why did you think you could
01:01:51
do this and Sheila goes I didn't but I had to try she deserved it and that is a fucking
01:02:00
horrible story that is also so beautiful of a person who just like did something
01:02:07
that is incredible let's end this episode now maybe I won't do it this week or can we edit
01:02:15
this so that yours is the end no just tell yours that was beautiful thank you yeah good job and good job phoebe judge good job phoebe judge sheila and phoebe really gave
01:02:28
me the book i mean that was i was driving down the five just being like this is the best story
01:02:33
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01:05:01
What? When you were in the bathroom, you texted Danielle. I'm always working. do not
01:05:07
are we recording Georgia did it again we took a break we took a break and then Georgia did some
01:05:15
got some work done in the bathroom I'm just sitting there paying what else am I supposed to do
01:05:19
I just love it because she goes downstairs and then I get a notification on my phone
01:05:24
as I'm sitting up here Georgia texted so and so I love it also it's just I think it's making me laugh because we cannot
01:05:31
get away from each other we can't get away from each other I can't turn it off It's just a constant thought of everything.
01:05:38
It's constant. Busy, busy. Yeah. Good stuff. Okay. Fun stuff. Fun stuff. All right.
01:05:44
I am doing the Lake Bodum murders. Lake what? Bodum. Oh. Do you know them? I don't.
01:05:51
Not by title. All right. Here we go. Lake So Lake Bodum is in Finland Okay Okay You there So the capital of Helsinki just outside of that is a town called Espo
01:06:06
And then right outside on the outskirts of that is this beautiful lake called Lake Bodum.
01:06:14
People go camping and fishing and hiking, and it's just like a beautiful, safe area.
01:06:18
Okay. so the lake boat of murders is the most famous unsolved homicide in finnish criminal history
01:06:25
wow unsolved as i like to do as you like to do okay so saturday june 4th 1960 here we are and an
01:06:34
okay there's two couples two teenage couples that decide to go camping one is 15 year old
01:06:41
myla or melie bjorklund and her fort her so she's 15 her 18 year old boyfriend is named nils
01:06:48
Wilhelm Gustafson. Gustafson. No, Gustafson. Gustafson. They've been dating for about a month.
01:06:56
And then their friends, Anya Taliki Mackie, she's 15 also, and she's with her boyfriend
01:07:02
about a year. His name's Seppo Boisman. He's 18. So two 15-year-old girls, they're 18-year-old boyfriends.
01:07:08
They set up camp, they hang out, they fish, they drink some booze, you know, did fucking,
01:07:13
like, teenage camping shit. Totally. And then they go to bed that night in the tent and before i realized what the real name is of this kind of tent style i just wrote
01:07:23
snoopy style tent but it's a pup tent yes you know what i mean we're like you just like hang a rope
01:07:30
and you you put it over it and you and so it's like like in a wes anderson movie kind of a style
01:07:35
more like a tent like you're not like today's camping it's not high ceilings it's very like
01:07:41
it's basically just an upside down v on the ground exactly with some like string hanging
01:07:45
there and here and whatever the fuck got it so all right they go to sleep the next morning at
01:07:50
about 11 a.m a hiker comes upon the teens campsite oh this poor hiker i know well actually there's i
01:07:58
of course looked in the my favorite murder email to see if anyone had sent us anything about it
01:08:02
and one woman sent us an email a murderino and she was like the truth about this is my fucking
01:08:07
aunt my two aunts actually found the bodies but it's like all this shit happens and this guy gets
01:08:13
credit for it so oh no but it's like they don't she was like they don't really need the credit
01:08:17
yeah credit is an odd word right yeah so this guy comes across the tent and he sees that it's
01:08:24
collapsed it's bloody and ripped up and upon closer investigation he realizes that all four
01:08:30
teens are tangled in the tent and one of the teens is laying on top of it bloody he fucking takes off
01:08:37
calls the police they come and they there they find that tangled in the tent the dead and bloodied
01:08:45
bodies of myla anja and seppo so the two girls and one of the boys and on top of the tent uh is the
01:08:53
badly injured body of nils he's unconscious so he's still alive wow investigators surprised that
01:08:59
while the teens were sleeping in the tent the two boys on the outside the girls on the inside
01:09:04
um they that's sweet and innocent i know it sounds innocent to me like yeah they had been attacked
01:09:13
by someone outside of the tent with a knife and a blunt object so the killer had apparently like
01:09:19
first cut the ties so the tent collapsed so the kids are probably like confused and then just
01:09:25
starts fucking blindly hitting and stabbing at the people in the tent so who knows if he even
01:09:31
knew who was inside of those tents wow so uh then um through the fabric nils who's the only survivor
01:09:39
somehow managed to like kind of start to come out of it but um he sustained he survives sustained but
01:09:45
he'd seen a concussion fractures to the jaw and facial bones and bruises to the face but he lived
01:09:50
but he was unconscious that whole time uh so it must have been kind of bad right yes so he his
01:09:58
girlfriend had received the worst of the attack, Myla. She was found undressed from the waist down,
01:10:07
but they don't know if she had gone to bed that way or if that had happened later. They could
01:10:12
never figure that out. And she had been stabbed multiple times after her death. So it was kind
01:10:17
of overkill for her, although the other two who were dead had only received what they needed to
01:10:23
be killed which like who the fuck knows for sure right but it's just it's obvious to the police
01:10:29
that one person got attacked more right yeah right but then again it's like well maybe she was on
01:10:36
like closer to the person who was doing the hitting and stabbing yeah but then when you
01:10:40
add in the but her boyfriend is survived even though he's injured that's bad and her pants are
01:10:46
gone yeah that's bad too bad bad bad okay so before the teens had been found that morning at 11
01:10:52
at 6 a.m. there were some boys and they were out bird watching they went towards the tent because
01:10:57
they saw the motorcycles that the boys that the teenage boys had driven up in and they saw the
01:11:02
collapsed tent and they saw a blonde man walking away from it but i don't think they realized
01:11:07
anything was wrong so they just kept moving but later told people the police about that
01:11:12
and they gave a description of the killer um so while nils is transported to the hospital for
01:11:18
treatment investigators call upon the fucking town to come help find the murder weapons and
01:11:26
other items that have been taken from the scene oh no crowdsourcing yeah oh so this fucking crime
01:11:32
scene and surrounding area gets motherfucking trampled of course that's how they used to like
01:11:38
to do it yeah they say can we get more boots over here please can we get the texas cowboy boots
01:11:44
Well, Anna, it's the funny argument of like when people are like, what is this true crime trend or whatever?
01:11:51
It's like, are you kidding me? Read any of these stories. The town always shows up and tries to grab shit and take it home.
01:11:59
Totally. It's the 1500s. It's like a human instinct to go to the worst place. This is a brick from the fucking hovel that fucking so-and-so was murdered in.
01:12:10
Jesus. The oldest murderer. Yeah. Shit. Okay. So. Jesus was murdered by your sins.
01:12:19
We can talk about it after this. Let's edit that out. Okay, wait, hold on. So hundreds of people scouring the area, but they can't find the murder weapon.
01:12:36
And murder weapons are never found. And they just fucking contaminate the whole crime scene.
01:12:41
The killer had taken several items from the campsite, which detectives couldn't really put together and figure out why.
01:12:48
So they took the keys to the victim's motorcycles, but they left the motorcycles behind.
01:12:52
And then there were tracks of blood that show that the killer was wearing Nils' shoes, the kid who survived.
01:13:00
He was wearing his shoes when he committed and left the murder scene. But the shoes were discovered partially hidden a little over 500 yards from the murder site, along with some of the other stolen clothes.
01:13:12
But some stuff was completely gone, like Seppo's leather jacket. so to me it almost sounds like the killer grabbed a fucking bunch of shit and like wandered off
01:13:21
tried some stuff on later left some stuff behind yeah you know kept what he wanted or if we're
01:13:28
still playing in the realm of like nils might be yeah then he set it up he did it then realized
01:13:35
all that would be recognizable like shoe prints and stuff right and then tried to go hide his
01:13:41
shoes yeah or like uh yeah there's all these possibilities and it's also hard because a lot
01:13:47
of these articles are written in finnish so the story is like there's you don't speak no what yeah
01:13:52
oh i know i'm embarrassed i isn't didn't people when we were in scandinavia tell us that finnish
01:13:58
is like the hardest language that they don't even understand it sometimes yes so cool i know
01:14:04
so based on the description of the boys who were bird watching as well as so nils then gets put he
01:14:11
can't remember anything so he gets put under hypnosis well um and he uh tells the the detectives
01:14:18
all this information and they're a creepy sketch is drawn of the potential killer okay so here's
01:14:23
some creepy sketches and you can see them on our instagram account or my twitter account
01:14:28
no no he just looks what does he look like uh uh well the eyes are too big that that looks like
01:14:37
Okay, but just... It looks like someone has... It looks like when people mess around with their selfies
01:14:43
and give themselves oversized eyes. And like a weird kind of pug nose, big lips.
01:14:49
Yes. It's weird. Oh, well, and also it's a very... The face is all scrunched in the middle of the head.
01:14:55
Yes. So it's big features, but then the face itself is small and the head is big.
01:15:01
Yeah. And so he's this blonde man. Okay, so they give him this sketch. then the funeral for the teens happens right and police later look at the photos of the crowds
01:15:13
at the at the funeral because there were hundreds of people there because it was this small town and
01:15:18
everyone came to the funeral and they notice an unidentified man in the crowd who looks almost
01:15:25
exactly like the sketch are you going to show me a picture of it are you ready to be more creeped
01:15:30
thing you've ever been in your life okay hold on more than beast of jersey mask yes so remember
01:15:38
just remember that uh sketch you just described and how it doesn't look like a real person yeah
01:15:44
okay look at that oh it looks like a racer head yeah a racer head in the middle of the crowd it
01:15:55
looks like they took that horrible drawing and then made it into a person's face this doesn't
01:16:00
look like it's a person's face and it just doesn't look real i'm like reaching for the phone from
01:16:06
steven like give it back because it is it looks like something's wrong with this person's face
01:16:12
it looks like like you know oh you know what it looks like you know when that woman did that
01:16:16
painting over the like antique yes scrolls and it just looked didn't look like it looked like a
01:16:24
cartoon face all of a sudden yes that's what it looks like yes it's and it's in a sea of normal
01:16:29
faces too so that's weird also but it also looks like i mean we could just keep on doing this but
01:16:34
there's there's an aspect to it that has a kind of like um what's that fucking guy what's the
01:16:40
director what's edward scissorhands director oh tim burton it's a tim burton cartoon character feel
01:16:45
like real dark circles under the eyes and the eyes are big and the cheekbones are like really
01:16:50
white blonde hair but i guess it's fucking finland so it's not that weird okay we'll get back to this
01:16:55
i just want to keep talking about it because you know what it kind of looks like it looks like he's
01:16:58
wearing a mask yeah it's very fucking creepy it looks like a mask so then uh but nobody knows who
01:17:06
this that person is they couldn't identify him and um let's see all right so here are the suspects
01:17:12
well there's a list the owner of the mask shop i'd put him way up at the top my nightmares okay so carl vladmar gilstrom known by the nickname as
01:17:25
kiosk man because he owns a kiosk at the camp the campsite which i think just means you buy
01:17:30
shit there oh right food maybe sure um but he's like a notoriously fucking asshole hates campers
01:17:38
where it's like get another job then dude people like to be unhappy that's true he even sometimes
01:17:43
will throw rocks at passing children he's just a fucking grumpy asshole You can't do that.
01:17:52
I know. In 1960 you can do anything you want In Finland you can huck a rock at a child Shithead camper Yeah Relatives So relatives tell authorities that Carl a few days after the murder filled in the well on his property
01:18:09
Uh-oh. And so police are like, maybe the murder weapons are there and like the shit that he stole.
01:18:14
So police search his property. But they're like, we didn't find anything incriminating.
01:18:20
But they didn't dig up the well. oh that's the one place that we'd be in i think that they must have been like well let's go see
01:18:27
what we can find and then based on that we don't think we need to dig up the well because also his
01:18:32
wife gave him an alibi and said i was with him all night we were down in that well
01:18:38
she gave the alibi to the well not to him i was with that well all night she's like don't you go
01:18:46
don't you look at that well don't you talk to that well but here's the thing there's no reason
01:18:51
to fill in a well to fill in a well that's like saying we'll never need water again yeah people
01:18:57
build you put it like a cistern lid on the top of a well so people don't fall in sure but you don't
01:19:02
fucking fill it in like sorry we're not interested in water from the ground anymore that's a good
01:19:07
point and like yeah all right so uh his wife's like nope totally with me which we all know
01:19:13
like fucking don't trust alibis from like moms and girlfriends and fucking boyfriends and people
01:19:21
Well, yeah, people who have a reason to lie. Yeah. Or have been threatened personally by the person who they're lying for.
01:19:28
So years later, he supposedly is shit faced and tells his neighbor, quote, I killed them, which could mean anything.
01:19:37
True. And then while on her deathbed, his wife was like, FYI, fucking totally lied for him because he threatened to kill me.
01:19:47
If I said, if I didn't give him an alibi, he said he would kill me. Of course. Of course.
01:19:54
And but like, then it couldn't be completely verified. She had said it to a friend.
01:19:59
He said that to the neighbor while I was drunk. And then in 1969, he kills himself reportedly by drowning in Lake Bodum.
01:20:08
Oh, which is like, fucking creepy. Yeah. And thematic and weird. Yeah. Also, FYI, we don't say committing suicide anymore.
01:20:16
I read about that. Yeah. it's interesting yeah so i just want to make sure i say the right term yes um so the morning okay
01:20:24
then here's another dude this dude i fucking think did it oh but everyone in fucking finland
01:20:29
thinks someone else did it okay so this dude the more like this person i'll let you tell me
01:20:35
more than well guy but well i mean well yeah he's a good one they're all good is the problem
01:20:41
So the morning after the murders, this fucking dude named Hans Assmann. One S or two?
01:20:49
A-S-S-M-A-N-N. Oh, come on. I swear to God. Your language isn't that hard to learn after all.
01:20:56
He's German. So he, this dude, Hans. He's really into legs. He's an ass man. He's an ass man.
01:21:05
He goes into, Stephen, don't laugh. Don't be immature. Oh, no. Stephen's whole head is red.
01:21:10
Stephen's to spray red. Steven don't be immature this is a serious subject it's tension we're laughing from the
01:21:17
tension he goes to the Helsinki surgical hospital and he's fucking disheveled he has black under his
01:21:23
fingernails and his clothes are covered in red stains and his behavior is super fucking sketchy
01:21:28
and weird the doctors and nurses all say he lies to them about what he why he looks the way he looks
01:21:33
and when they're like question him further he fucking pretends to be unconscious what
01:21:40
goodbye like just close to the side where were you last night good night yes i'm unconscious oh
01:21:47
ass man wake up i'm an ass man um and he's aggressive and nervous other times so he's
01:21:52
fucking sketchballs and it turns out so he's from germany it was said he's he maybe started
01:22:00
the rumor or it's true it's hard to tell he served as a guard in none other than auschwitz
01:22:05
no so he's a fucking we hate this guy yeah serves none other than i'm sorry but that might need to
01:22:14
be the title well it's like it's like the one you know what i mean it's like it's not like
01:22:20
you know fucking birkin uh birkin out it's like the fucking top of the line he's not to say that
01:22:26
one is worse you know jesus not jesus cut all of this out if no no no if if you're going to name
01:22:34
a concentration camp, Auschwitz is the one everybody's heard of. None other than.
01:22:38
None other than. And yeah, all the other ones, there were so fucking many. He is a guard at Auschwitz, but supposedly he became romantic.
01:22:48
He fell in love with a Jewish girl, which is like, honey, that's not how it works.
01:22:53
I mean, yeah, then you should. Okay, go ahead. It's really problematic. I was going to give Assman some advice.
01:23:01
I think we're past that. So he is there like, fuck you, and send him to the front lines.
01:23:06
Oh. Where he gets captured by Soviets and recruited to be a KGB spy. Whoa. So this guy's like just topping the fucking top of the line piece of shit.
01:23:17
And just having tons of bad experiences also. Yeah. I think that's, it like went from, well, he was okay probably as a Nazi.
01:23:24
They were the ones in power. And then it's like suddenly he's in a bad place. Yeah.
01:23:29
so so his clothing matches the description of the lake photo murderer and he like like a couple days
01:23:36
after the after watching the news about what happened cuts his blonde hair short oh oh he
01:23:42
lived just a short distance from the lake and at the time of the at the time but he claimed to have
01:23:47
a solid alibi also so the police only had a brief meeting with ass man and found little since they didn want to cross the doctors So they kind of didn look into him and a lot of people think it because of the KGB connection that they didn go after him
01:24:05
Too scary. Yeah. That makes sense. So they didn't cross-examine the doctors. They didn't take his stained clothing in for examination
01:24:11
to even see if it was fucking paint or whatever. It was just red stained clothing, and that's all they knew.
01:24:18
Yep. And in spite of the fact that the doctors in attendance were certain that it was blood.
01:24:22
And in fact, a doctor, Jorma Paolo at the hospital, he was one of the doctors to initially examine Aspen.
01:24:32
He goes on to write three books about Aspen. He became obsessed with Aspen. I bet.
01:24:37
And he, a former detective. Can I say one joke? Yeah. Can we just put up, just square out a little time so that I can say he also went on to write the famous song, Baby Got Back.
01:24:50
That was not worth it. Stephen, make me funny. Are you proud of yourself here? No, it feels so bad.
01:24:56
It feels terrible. So former detective Maddie. Wait, Stephen liked it. Stephen. Okay, former detective Maddie Pallaro even went so far as to connect him with five other unsolved murders.
01:25:11
Fucks. Including Kailiki Sarri's murder in Sojoki. Got that wrong. and the Tullahity double murders in Hainavesi.
01:25:25
What are you? I don't know. A couple other murders. We're going to find out from our friends over in Scandinavia.
01:25:31
They're going to say, this is how you say it, and it's going to be illegible. It's going to be unreadable, so it's not going to help.
01:25:36
No, that's not true because they, A, speak great English, and then, B, they can do a phonetic spell.
01:25:41
You're right. Where they're like, it's da, da, da. We've gotten a couple good ones of those.
01:25:45
That's true, right. I'm sorry. Appalachia, baby. that's right so um and one of those murders took place 10 months prior to the lake boda murders so
01:25:53
he thinks this guy's like a fucking serial killer also if he was a nazi guard yeah he has experienced
01:25:59
and participated in things that are so beyond yeah monstrous and amalistic that he there's a chance
01:26:06
that either it's a kind of a ptsd like this is a thing i need to keep doing yeah i mean like he had
01:26:12
a taste for it and he was one of those people like there's it makes so much sense yeah you don't just
01:26:17
like participate in the the complete destruction and annihilation of these people and then walk
01:26:23
away and have power over all of them too so you can do whatever the fuck you want yes and then get
01:26:28
over it yeah and then just go like oh i'm gonna live by lake now and everything's cool yeah um
01:26:33
and he also had okay and now let me show you his photo oh remember that keep in mind those two other
01:26:39
ones i just i'll never fucking forget them well get ready for fucking exhibit c okay because here
01:26:47
we go ready yeah no it's identical he looks like a it looks like him yes it certainly does right
01:26:56
it's almost like the human version of that face and then the guy at the funeral was like a crazy
01:27:02
Halloween version of that face. Totally. Show Steven. Or don't. It's him. I mean, it looks like him. I think he did it.
01:27:11
Those eyes. Wow. Those eyes. That's such a disturbing face. Yeah. He almost looks like Udo Kier.
01:27:16
You know, that actor, the character actor that always plays like, he has light blue eyes and
01:27:20
silver hair and he always kind of just plays the creepy foreign guy that's judging something.
01:27:26
Like a talent contest? It could be. Okay. So. Okay, there's another guy who confesses.
01:27:35
Like, people just keep confessing. Whatever. I don't think this guy has anything to do with it.
01:27:39
Cut to late March 2004. Oh. 44 years after the murder, the case is reopened and the bloodstains are analyzed again, which
01:27:50
leads Finnish police to declare that the case has been solved based on new evidence
01:27:54
and including the sudden testimony out of nowhere of a woman claiming to have been camping
01:28:00
nearby that day. Whoa. But it's like new. She's like, oh, yeah, I forgot to tell you guys.
01:28:05
I was there that day. Come on. Where was she? Yeah. Why didn't she speak up? That's when they arrest none other than Nils Gustafsson for the murder of his friends
01:28:16
and girlfriend. No. Yes. He had gone on to live a relatively normal life. He raised a family, retired from a long career as a school bus driver, and he's fucking
01:28:26
arrested. No. According to the official statement, Nils, they think Nils erupted in jealous anger over his feelings over his girlfriend at the time, Bjorklund.
01:28:38
They believe that he had gotten into a scuffle with his friend, the other dude, and that's how he sustained his injuries.
01:28:44
So it wasn't even like he did them to himself. To make it look like he was also attacked.
01:28:50
Right. Like they got into a fight, then he did that. So yeah, their proof was that Milo was the main target.
01:28:55
So that was his girlfriend. Yeah. Um, and, uh, they say that Nils's injuries were superficial and self-inflicted also.
01:29:04
So like a little of both, I guess. Yeah. Which, okay. So I have a hard time with, because then like, why would he lay there till 11 o'clock?
01:29:11
And then, you know, if it happened at 6am and he would, why would he lay there till,
01:29:16
pretending to be unconscious until 11? Wouldn't he get up and go find someone and be like, oh, we were attacked.
01:29:20
And I'm, I mean, that would make more sense, but maybe he, I mean, who knows? he's crazy enough to do it in the first place
01:29:29
but maybe he just like laid there and was just like okay this is going to be the best
01:29:33
most realistic way for me to get away with this yeah but what if it happened when people saw
01:29:38
a man walking away at 6am that's fucking five hours but maybe he was like maybe he wasn't laying there the entire
01:29:47
time maybe he was like he went and hit his shoes and he did this and he fucked around
01:29:51
or whatever and then maybe hurt a car hurt someone and then ran over and acted like he been laying there Okay So the trial starts in August of 2005 The new witness who had only come forward a year prior for a documentary interview
01:30:06
which is like, oh honey. Where were you? You were nowhere. She claims that the two teen boys had entered her tent
01:30:12
and that Nils had been behaving aggressively with her that night. Huh. Which I don't believe.
01:30:17
The defense argued that the murders were a work of one or more outsiders and that Nils would have been incapable of killing three people
01:30:24
given the extent of his injuries. Because, like, you've got a fucking fractured jaw.
01:30:27
You're not like, you know what I mean? Yes. Unless you're in a full rage. Yeah. And you're in shock and you can't feel your injuries.
01:30:36
Yeah. Which a lot of people have talked about having happened. Well, guess what?
01:30:41
Oh. Nils gets fucking convicted. Oh. But after serving one year, it was granted.
01:30:47
In October 2005, the district court found Nils Gustafsson not guilty of all charges against him.
01:30:53
they were like no no that that shouldn't have happened wow yeah and um he's circumstantial
01:30:59
i think yeah okay so on his acquittal the state of finland pays him 44 000 euro for mental suffering caused by the long uh time in jail that he he spent um but people still think
01:31:12
he's guilty there of course and so i here's what i think fucking happened remember that remember in
01:31:18
Oregon on our live show, I did the case. Yes. Of those people camping and the man
01:31:26
that looked like a cowboy. Yeah. And the girl wrote the book. Okay. So it's the story
01:31:30
of Terry Jentz J-E-N-Z. The book's called Strange Piece of Paradise. It's fucking great.
01:31:37
But so she was camping with a girlfriend of hers and this fucking, what she thinks happened
01:31:43
she has to solve the case on her own is fucking some dude in a crazy you know just got dumped by his girlfriend somewhere else had seen earlier and you know
01:31:51
knew that there were two girls camping alone and just went took it out on them yeah fucking
01:31:55
attacked them in this kind of the same manner like while they were in the tent uh and he was
01:32:00
in the outside and so it's some fucking crazy person who maybe they like cut him off earlier
01:32:06
on the road or maybe they like yelled something at him they're these teenagers you know yes and
01:32:11
Nils doesn't remember because he got a fucking concussion. And this guy just went crazy.
01:32:15
I feel like I feel like attacking from the outside of the tent while you can't even see where the people are inside is just not about anything but rage.
01:32:25
Yeah. It's not personal. It's not about one person in the in the tent. It's just you just start swinging.
01:32:32
Yeah. You're just trying to inflict pain and war on people. And then the thing about like there's missing shoes.
01:32:38
He tries to steal these shoes. He steals a jacket is like, is this person? on the run already and is trying to get fucking clothing that looks you know that he can use as a
01:32:47
disguise yeah or is he or is he just kind of out on his own and doesn't have a lot of money and he's
01:32:52
like i need this and i but then why would he oh if you took that motorcycle yeah you'd get caught
01:32:57
with a motorcycle and i'd be like right open and shut right maybe doesn't know how to drive a
01:33:02
motorcycle maybe he's too small it's a baby he's a tiny baby um so they when they tested the blood
01:33:12
on the shirt it was nils's blood and that's what made them go he did it when they tested him they
01:33:18
tested his shoes i can't tell exactly but they did test his shoes and all three of the murder
01:33:23
victims blood were on his shoes except for his oh which could be explained in a number of different
01:33:30
ways right but there's also no supposedly no other blood type at the scene oh but i mean
01:33:37
there's a you know if that's all you have is circumstantial evidence that's not enough right
01:33:42
well yeah and this especially in this situation where it's there seem to be a million possibilities
01:33:49
right and you have fucking evidence that i think it was maybe even another person saw someone
01:33:55
a blonde person leaving the fucking scene yeah there's they put another person there
01:34:00
yeah and those the face of the guy at the funeral i mean dude if i was a cop i'd just be like we
01:34:05
just need to figure out a way to get this guy off the street i don't even know who he is it looks
01:34:10
like the thing uh-huh has a cousin who's a surfer and he's an ass man and he is an ass man from
01:34:16
finland yeah from germany from germany living in finland visiting from russia but spent some time
01:34:24
in russia after college via russia and the visa v kgb putin karen solved it it's putin um jesus um
01:34:35
and that's the lake bodem murders so they'll probably never be solved to this day god and
01:34:41
can you believe they took him after all that time he you know after going through that and they took
01:34:46
him to fucking court and yeah convicted him and then recanted yeah i want to know more about the
01:34:53
woman who got interviewed for the documentary and what her deal is i'm sure she's super normal
01:34:58
i bet she's regular she just thinks things through yeah god that's fascinating yeah also it does i
01:35:05
as awful as that story is that you did the the um sorry the the portary jones yeah yeah that
01:35:14
story is incredible it's the book it's incredible it's like this woman is a fucking fighter and she
01:35:21
goes to try to solve her own case you know 20 fucking years after it happened yeah it's it's
01:35:28
it's a really great book i listened to it on tape and i or her name is terry jenz j-e-n-t-z and i
01:35:34
it's strange pieces of paradise i highly recommend the audiobook yeah yeah that was a great story
01:35:39
wow amazing yeah thank you crazy right yeah um cool wow guys we did it we did it we got through
01:35:49
this. It's only been 45 minutes. Yeah. It's a record for us. It really is. We learned. We loved. We
01:35:56
levitated. We we We've been levitating this whole time. We have been levitating, and you can too if you just join the fan cult.
01:36:07
Magical power! Yay! Do you have a fucking hooray for this week? I do. Let us hear it.
01:36:14
So it turns out, and murderinos do more good shit in the world of that. Murderinos doing good stuff.
01:36:21
They keep doing it. They just keep doing it. So this woman named Charlotte emailed us to let us know that they that.
01:36:30
So there was a fundraiser started for races, R-A-I-C-E-S. And so races, R-A-I-C-E-S, I hope I'm fucking saying that right, is the largest immigration legal services provider in Texas.
01:36:44
And so this woman named Charlotte and this guy named Dave started a fundraiser on Facebook called Reunite an Immigrant Parent with their Child.
01:36:53
And it's raising money to do just that, which is fucking incredible. And I mean, this is this is these stories were why I donated money in my mother's name is because it was just making me heartbroken.
01:37:05
And it still is. They were going to try to raise 10 million, but they've raised 20 million.
01:37:14
Well, their first race. Are you talking about races? Are you talking about the murderinas?
01:37:18
This is a fundraiser. It's not murderino specific, but it turns out that Charlotte emailed us to let us know that they're murderinos.
01:37:25
Oh, right. But I'm saying you don't mean races. You mean these individuals. Yes.
01:37:29
Okay. Because races, when they put their thing up, their goal as that nonprofit, the day that that story broke, when they put it up, they were like, we hope to raise $5,000.
01:37:40
And they raised like several million. Yeah. Like they're getting so many donations that they're they had just like set up a whole other system of like how they're going to like actually put this money out.
01:37:53
And it's such an amazing, beautiful response. Yeah. To such a disgusting, fucking frightening thing that's happening where they're actually interesting that we're talking about concentration camps.
01:38:06
That's what these fucking are. Yeah. That's what the government is setting up. A hundred percent.
01:38:11
Yeah. And so these are the helpers, you know, and... They taking action and they I mean how much have they raised I think that so I can I think it 20 million in 12 days And so you can go to Reunite an Immigrant Parent with Their Child
01:38:29
Fundraiser for Races by Charlotte and Dave. It's on Facebook. I will donate as well.
01:38:34
Or, you know, donate to wherever you can that makes you feel good and makes you feel like, you know, your money's going to a good place.
01:38:42
Yep. Even if it's $5 fucking dollars, it's a good thing to do. Yeah. Do that. And then my fucking hurry for this week will be, I just, I went to therapy this morning.
01:38:53
It was an especially good sesh with my therapist because I had been out of town for a week.
01:39:01
That's always good. But it was making me, I get, these days I'm very philosophical in therapy because I've been in it for so long.
01:39:08
And I will say this, you know, there's lots of people who tell us I started therapy because you guys talk about it.
01:39:14
And I want to say this to people who start and maybe they're feeling like plateau type of feelings like, oh, I've been in therapy for X number of years and I'm not getting what I thought I would get or something.
01:39:27
Don't put some kind of weird expectation time limit on your therapy. Go to therapy and show up every week trying to learn something about yourself.
01:39:36
I swear to God, if you can just stay in it. like when I first went to therapy, I said to my therapist,
01:39:42
I just need to know how to not say things. I'm that. I don't want to say out loud it at work so that people don't hate me.
01:39:50
And I don't hate everybody. Yeah, it was real basic. And I thought she was just going to give me some tips and tricks.
01:39:55
And I don't do. Yes, exactly. Just give me what do normal people do and teach me that.
01:40:01
And I'm going to be out of here. Do I put a jelly button in a jar every time I fucking rubber band on the wrist?
01:40:06
Did I say jelly button? You said a jelly button, but and i don't see a can of wine i am not drinking today oh this is all me i can never
01:40:15
blame it on fucking boo jelly button jelly jelly button yeah no it's i guess like my point is like
01:40:22
something she was saying something about um that we're trying to um take off the armor of ego
01:40:30
that's what we were talking about today and how hard it is because it's about vulnerability but
01:40:36
But it's taken me 13 years to be in a discussion where we're talking about taking off the armor
01:40:41
of ego because for a long time I wanted to talk about how I don have any problems But what is what everybody else going to do and how are we going to trick everybody else into doing what I want yeah and I just will say and there were times where like when I went through when I left my ex
01:40:58
and moved to New York I stopped calling my therapist and she would call me like every two
01:41:02
to three weeks and be like can we talk about why you don't want to talk to me and I was just like
01:41:07
I can't talk to anybody. You're allowed to do that and still go back to therapy.
01:41:13
The same therapist too. Yeah. They're not mad at you. If you want to switch, if you want to say they're mad at you, whatever.
01:41:18
But like I went back and she was like, I want to talk about why you didn't trust me to even.
01:41:23
And I said, can we just not talk about that now? And then we sidelined it for three years and then we went back to it later.
01:41:30
But I, I'm so thankful that I have this person that keeps me honest, that through like, kind of dark times is the one that goes, yeah, but can I remind you? And that basically is like, that's all well and good. You know, your complaints and your whatever you want to do, you're trying to get away with. But yeah, but how about we talk about dis disarming the ego, the real reason that we all have problems is because we're so scared to be vulnerable, or so scared to be ourselves.
01:41:58
and we're so scared to be in the moment. Or we become these people because of trauma, past trauma,
01:42:03
or the way we were raised and all this crazy shit. Which is valid. Yeah. And our reactions about our trauma from the past are valid.
01:42:11
It's the way our brains get trained to work because of what happened to us. But it doesn't mean that we have to live in it.
01:42:18
It doesn't mean that we have to continue to do it. We can retrain ourselves and we can just try something new.
01:42:26
And I don't know. It just seemed for so long. I just didn't have any hope for myself for so long because it was like, no, I'm just this way.
01:42:33
And I'm kind of like this. And yeah, it's let's just have it. It's never going to change.
01:42:37
It's too much work to change. Yeah. I don't want to unpack this fucking painful shit.
01:42:41
Right. And that's all fine. But that's the fear telling you don't leave the house.
01:42:45
It's not worth trying. You know, whatever. So I don't know. I love it. Don't. It's not all.
01:42:51
It's not easy, but it's so good for you. Yeah. Let's say again, Psychology Today on their website has a really great therapist and psychologist and psychiatrist directory.
01:43:02
You just put your zip code in. A lot of them have photos You kind of like that woman has a kind face It sure reminds me of my elementary school like that kind of how i found mine same here yeah exactly the same i found a couple therapists on on psychology today yeah site so and you get to shop until you find the one that you want to
01:43:18
tell the worst possible thing you could tell that's right shop around make it work for you
01:43:23
but keep on putting in the work yeah good job we're proud of you and we're very proud of you
01:43:28
very happy to be in this fucking community this podcast has changed our lives in so many ways but
01:43:34
more than anything, it just makes us feel armed with so many incredible people and so many bad
01:43:42
asses and so many. I don't know. No, you're right. It's like a circuit. It's whatever we're doing
01:43:47
for you. You're also doing for us. It really, it's pretty amazing. And we feel lucky and reach
01:43:54
out to people if you're feeling stressed out. And if you need help lately, it's makes sense that you
01:43:59
need help lately we all do yeah awesome thanks guys thanks for listening stay sexy and don't
01:44:05
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