00:00:00
This is exactly right. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is it girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
00:00:12
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the
00:00:16
pressure, the expectations and the real work behind it all. As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated.
00:00:23
So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
00:00:28
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:38
I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
00:00:47
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
00:00:54
Every week I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
00:01:00
I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
00:01:06
The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
00:01:12
Listen to Bleep with Anna Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:19
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:01:24
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed
00:01:30
therapist. It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff.
00:01:38
It didn't matter to me. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day.
00:01:43
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start
00:01:47
listening now. My favorite love cover cord cover than on a murder podcast george is bragging that she not only has a really long
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uh iphone charger cord but that it's covered in denim it's got like a denim sleeve so it's like a
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really long light blue snake yes thin like a garden snake gross we've talked about snakes
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like three times in the past they're very sexual gross mom welcome hey welcome to my
00:02:53
favorite murder the podcast where we talk about denim and snakes welcome uh right let's fucking
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but we have so many things to discuss announce and talk about yeah that we can't even get into
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our usual zip zap zap bullshit that we do at the top because this is one of the ones that we've
00:03:14
been saying to you guys we can't wait to tell you this thing when we tell you we promise it'll be
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worth it this is the reason we're always tired this is the reason we're always complaining vaguely
00:03:23
about something. And putting up a live episode. And, uh, and you know, maybe fighting.
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Maybe there's been light fighting. I think I've, this is one of the main reasons I've started going gray
00:03:35
this past year. Is because we wrote a book, everybody. We wrote a book! And we wrote it for you.
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Oh my god. And it's coming out June of 2019. May of 2019. I said May of 2019. May 11th, my birthday?
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Oh, I don't know. Probably not. But it's called you're not going to believe this title.
00:03:53
This is nuts. Listen. It's called Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered. That's right.
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That's what it's called. Here's my advice to people who want to write a book. Write half of the book
00:04:03
and have someone else write the other half. It's a lot easier. We did this book like we do the podcast.
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And it was great. And also, it's not, I don't think it's people, it's what people might think it is.
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it kind of it's kind of what we didn't it's not what we thought it was going to be
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it turned into its own beast which is actually kind of cool. It's essentially like
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a memoir of all the fucked up stories we've lightly told you about on the podcast before we're like hey
00:04:34
remember that one time you lit the bed on fire and that one time I went to rehab and
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like you know all these like really really personal fucking stories interspliced with
00:04:42
true crime things that are related to it that we're interested in. Yeah. And it's just really, really personal.
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And we both had to have a lot of emergency therapy sessions. Yeah, there was crying for sure.
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It turns out when you have to revisit all these awful, like, what are they called?
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Stories of... Experiences? Yeah, but like warning other people. Cautionary tales?
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Oh, right. That we are trying to impart on the 20-somethings who listen to the podcast?
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It dredges some shit up inside. When your amazing editor, Ali, is like, what did it smell like and sound and taste like?
00:05:15
And you're just like, oh, I don't want to go back there. Yeah, I don't. You start to realize, oh, the reason that I procrastinate is not because I'm a bad person or all those things that I like to tell myself.
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It's like, oh, you don't want to sit there and think about your dead mom that much.
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Right. But you do it. But you gotta. You do it for the book. You gotta. And we wrote a fucking book about it.
00:05:36
And honestly, I didn't get through some like crazy shit. I know. We really, we put it on the page, people.
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So, yeah, you know, you guys, you know, there was a pre announcement that and you guys, the reaction and response, of course, was amazing, because you guys are amazing.
00:05:52
And that sounds so phony. But we were very blown away yesterday is for us chronologically is when it happened Yesterday I was thinking about how this is just another in the series of the past two and a half years
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that's like, it's like a montage set to Eye of the Tiger of our lives where we just keep tripping upwards.
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It's very odd. It's just another one of those like, seriously, that this is fucking happening?
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Like, it's insane. So it's on pre-sale all over the place where you buy books, Amazon.
00:06:25
Oh, Stephen's handing a thing to you. Oh, the release date. Oh, the release date.
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Thank you so much. May 28th. I wasn't totally wrong. Between our two birthdays. That's right.
00:06:35
They actually decided. May 28th, 2019 is when this book is available. But you can preorder it now, and that actually really helps us out.
00:06:42
If you're going to buy it anyways, preorder it because it makes it a big splash.
00:06:46
Sure. Or whatever the fuck. Which it's already done. I mean, yeah. It's just an incredible...
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I just have always wanted to write a book, and I didn't ever think I was going to.
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Yes, same here. And I'm thrilled. We're both genuinely excited, which is very scary.
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So thank you for being there for us. We are very excited, and God bless fucking America.
00:07:07
Now, almost maybe more important, it's the yoga bulletin. Yes. It's this week's yoga bulletin.
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Let's say at this count of three, the answer of whether or not you and I, as we promised last week, would go to one yoga class.
00:07:21
On the count of three. One, two, three. Yes. Yes. Yes. In fact, Georgia, did you do it the very fucking next day?
00:07:31
Yeah. And it seems like I was showing off. I know it's like a show off thing. It was all coincidence.
00:07:37
To go to you. I was even because I sent you a photo like after the class, I took a photo in front of the sign.
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I was like, I went and I should save this for a couple of days. So it doesn't seem like I went the next day and I'm seeing like I'm showing her that I did it first.
00:07:49
No, I loved it because it meant you were fucking serious. you know we've done a lot of things let's say um you know the my sweet audrina book club we start
00:07:57
where we start things and then we're just like but now we can actually say the reason we couldn't do
00:08:03
the my sweet audrina book club is we're fucking writing that book so it's not like we can sit
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around and be like here i'm going to type up my thoughts on this it's like we always had when we
00:08:11
were in the fucking european tour we weren't done with the book yet and we had just found out before
00:08:16
we left the european that we had an extra week which was like we were both ready to fucking jump
00:08:20
off bridges. It was so stressful. When we were on the Australian tour, we were supposed to be
00:08:25
getting the book done and we were not. And it was very difficult. It's been we've birthed a baby
00:08:32
of paper and words. And I'm not. Yeah, it's scary. It's big and scary. And there's a lot of
00:08:39
there's a lot of blood and sweat on the paper. And you can't guilt them into liking it.
00:08:45
um and also we're in the yoga bulletin let's not go backwards so it was it was an accident the next
00:08:51
day uh on a thursday i had therapy at one and i was like i'm just gonna check my favorite yoga
00:08:57
studio down the street from my therapist and it was like it was like 45 minutes after my therapy
00:09:05
was over this class was going to start by this teacher i really like and my favorite it just all
00:09:11
lined up because also like i have so many parameters of like whether or not i'm going to
00:09:14
go like what time is it because the parking lot's gonna be busy and so i'm just not gonna go you
00:09:18
know yeah so we went parameters also excuses excuses there's all different ways to define
00:09:23
that i had 45 minutes i fucking went into my favorite vintage shop down the street real quick
00:09:27
bought a cute 80s blouse then went to fucking yoga killed like had a great class this teacher
00:09:31
is amazing uh and it was like and i it was great it was fucking what i needed so i get that message
00:09:40
from Georgia. I'm like, really impressed, genuinely, very impressed. It was great, because
00:09:45
I know we both wanted to do it. But I want to do things all the time. And I don't honor my
00:09:51
my own wants. Yeah, I'll be like, well, that's dumb and doesn't matter. Or you're too this and
00:09:56
that. And you tell ambitious Karen that she's being stupid. Oh, I mean, stop trying to make me cry.
00:10:03
So I saw yours. And I was like, Yep, this is something it's important to do. And then the more
00:10:07
we started getting, you know, you guys started tweeting us and being like, I'm a yoga instructor
00:10:12
and I do this. I like, I didn't want to go today, but I knew Karen and Georgia would be mad at me.
00:10:17
Yes. Great. Use our anger at you. Please do. Cause it is real. We will be mad at you. Um,
00:10:22
so I started making, of course, we constantly talk about our friend, Lizzie Cooperman, who, uh,
00:10:28
Lizzie is a definitely a yoga person. So I sent her a message and I was basically to say,
00:10:35
I gotta go to one of these and I know I'm not going to so can you please be my Sherpa yeah and
00:10:41
she starts sending me oh no texts of different yoga classes around town but of course Lizzie
00:10:47
is kind of not of this hemisphere right of this even galaxy she's like made of crystals
00:10:54
she's magical yeah so she starts sending me I sent you one that I thought I was signed up to
00:11:00
go to and then I didn't go to because I freaked out and it was basically she was
00:11:04
like all you do is lay there and they do gongs and chimes this is not my style at all I was
00:11:10
like I don't want to go with Lizzie because I know we're just going to put a bolster on our hips and lay there for eight hours
00:11:14
and I can't do that and do the gong I need to fucking sweat and stretch and like get
00:11:18
Lizzie was like they're going to put peppermint oil in your hand and we're going to regress back to when we
00:11:24
used to live on the savannah there'll be a tarot card on your forehead I have to guess which one
00:11:28
the tarot card is you win a membership So I said I would do that. And then at the last second, I basically was like, I'm still laying down.
00:11:36
This is weird. And I had to call in some phony excuse. She was like, don't even worry about it.
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Oh, you know what I did? I went, does this place have air conditioning? Again, requirements, right?
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You're like, oh, it's not good enough. So then it came, I can't remember what day it was.
00:11:50
I think it may have been Monday. And then I was like fucking do this Like stop it And then I realized just go to one that not in Hollywood Yes Get out of fucking I don even live in Hollywood So like go somewhere small cool low key
00:12:06
And I went back to a yoga studio I used to go to. Like, it was easily like 11 years ago.
00:12:12
And when I walked in, so I was like, I'm doing this. I signed up online so that I would go.
00:12:17
Yeah, I paid the money already. Never do that. Did all those pre things. Was all like, I'm good.
00:12:23
and I went 15 minutes early in case they made you feel something out. That's my thing, too.
00:12:26
If you get there early, if you don't have to walk into a room full of people, it makes you feel like I get set up, I'm there.
00:12:33
You know, it's not overwhelming. Yeah, and you're not tiptoeing and whispering and being weird.
00:12:37
Right. But as I hit the door, what did I forget? Tragically. Your yoga mat? That's right.
00:12:44
Oh, you can rent them there. Yes, but have you ever smelled the yoga mats they rent?
00:12:49
It is like the sweat of one. I'm yelling at you. 1,000. I was like, as I hit the door, I was like, well, that's just your payment for like being
00:12:57
so freaked out. And I rented this yoga mat. It was a great class. It was a gentle class.
00:13:03
Yeah. It couldn't have been easier. The entire time I was thinking there was a couple of things where we had to do like
00:13:08
a downward dog into a leg lift. And I was like, this isn't a grandma move. Like this was supposed to be a grandma class, but it was basically starting you grandma
00:13:15
and then moving you into like, can you lift your leg off the ground? You might as well try.
00:13:20
And if not, move into child's pose. I also realize I can't do child's pose. Because you can't like sit back on your haunches enough?
00:13:28
I can't sit like my legs and the way my body is shaped. Child's pose is essentially looks like I'm hunched over something trying to take it apart.
00:13:37
Like you've passed out face first while you were sitting up on your knees. Yeah.
00:13:43
It looks like I'm getting back up from having passed out. It's super weird. And I just sat there going like, oh, this is so embarrassing to not be able to do child's pose.
00:13:51
And then by that time, I was like, who gives a shit about anything at you? Yeah.
00:13:55
So and then what I loved was the teacher of the class. And normally this would freak me out when I walked in.
00:14:02
She was like, there's a lady behind the desk. But then the teacher was like, hi, what's your name?
00:14:07
And I was like, normally I would turn around and walk out. I'm so not a joiner. Yeah.
00:14:12
Yeah. At all. Yeah. That stuff like that. I'm just like, I don't want to be friends with you.
00:14:17
But she's like, what's your name? And I'm like, Karen. She's like, have you taken this class before?
00:14:20
And I'm like, I mean, I've been here, but it was probably and then I lie and shave five years off.
00:14:25
And I was like, maybe six years ago. And she goes, six years. And then I was like, oh, my God, I love this woman.
00:14:30
She's not going like whispering gentle, you know, asanas in my hair. She was like six years.
00:14:36
Well, then she's like, well, she was here six years ago. I was like kind of giving me shit.
00:14:40
Oh, and you love that. I love it. Because I would have been like shamed into leaving.
00:14:44
No, I don't know what happened. I went into mine and I was like, I think I have like I had bought like a 10 pass class.
00:14:49
and she was like yeah um you haven't used it in a year so it expired i was like oh that's so
00:14:55
embarrassing i'm like i'll just i'll just pay it's fine i'll just pay even though it was like
00:14:58
fucking 22 for yoga class like on its own and then when i came out she was like i just i renewed your
00:15:04
the classes you have left over like thank you she's that's truly a yoga move yeah that's a yogic
00:15:10
move it was generous that's she's i feel like her solar plexus chakra is all the way open
00:15:18
that's not all the way open it's all the way live basically do you know what a yoni egg is
00:15:24
do yeah okay well she has do you that was the most sixth grade voice i've ever heard do you
00:15:31
do you know it the thing of prove it tell me what it is yeah tell me uh draw a picture of it
00:15:36
well gwyneth paltrow shows them on her website i bet she fucking does i have a friend who uses
00:15:42
one and i just am always why did they have a baby horrified no she's just she's also made of crystals
00:15:48
okay okay uh i have a correction corner okay should i do oh but also let's keep doing yoga
00:15:55
yoga the yoga bulletin once a day i mean once a day just once a day guys no big deal once a week
00:16:02
let's all go to yoga if you can do more great if you can't do one do two next week whatever but
00:16:06
like and your speed you can do an online one there's a lot of great apps and shit that have
00:16:10
yoga you don't want to go anywhere so many and also we got a lot of recommendations of online
00:16:15
one. So if you're looking for recommendations, look at other people talking about this on our feed. What about a fucking
00:16:21
murderino meetup yoga class? I bet there's so many murderino yoga teachers who can do like a murderino class. Must be.
00:16:27
There must be. Yeah. Let's do it. Strengths. Corrections. Spirituality. Okay. Sorry, go ahead. Did you want to keep going?
00:16:35
With your yoni egg? Now that's your junior year of high school voice. Here's an email.
00:16:41
It's titled well here, I'll just say, hey guys, love the podcast. etc just thought you should know i just thought i'd shoot you an email to let you know that here
00:16:49
in australia our majestic landmark is referred to ula rue not ayers rock ayers rock so last week i
00:16:57
did the um dingo ate my baby story and i called it ayers rock but it's actually ula rue and um
00:17:04
then this person says using its traditional name shows respect to the traditional
00:17:07
custodians the arna new people and thank you for the fucking she spelled it out or
00:17:13
phonetically um so i yeah a lot of people told me that and it's respectful and i appreciate that
00:17:20
on a completely different note i've just started a weekly yoga class and it's making me very happy
00:17:24
fucking hooray and then she i guess there's a little yoga emoji uh stay sexy hannah so thanks
00:17:30
hannah and thanks for everyone letting me know uh to be honest it just said in the on the wikipedia
00:17:36
that it's called what either one and the one that looked hard to pronounce i didn't say yeah so but
00:17:42
Now I know. Yeah, this is how we learn and grow. Right. Right? Speaking of, really quickly, I want to plug the summer camp line, limited time, summer
00:17:53
camp run. People are sending us photos and it looks so fucking cool on everyone And we also want to let you guys know uh one that five percent of all sales for the summer camp line go to camp hope which is a
00:18:05
summer camp for kids who have experienced trauma and um and uh violence like domestic violence and
00:18:13
oh we are replacing the uh tent design the teepee design the teepee design with a new tent so keep
00:18:20
an eye out for that. We're getting rid of it. We heard you. Keep an eye out. Yeah, that's it.
00:18:25
Go to my favorite murder.com at the store. At the top, there should be like a summer camp
00:18:29
clicky thing. Click on that. Sweet. Okay. Anything else for you? I'm sorry I yelled at you.
00:18:37
That's okay. I mean, I'm going to get back at you later on this week. Maybe I'll trick you into coming to my yoga class. And I'll readjust you in a bad way.
00:18:45
Don't put peppermint oil in my hand. when you feel uncomfortable what do you put on biggie you put on biggie when you feel
00:18:54
uncomfortable because i want to get confident this is dj hester prince music is therapy
00:18:58
a weekly podcast from me a dj and licensed therapist it's mental health month let's figure
00:19:04
out what actually works i didn't care about my life circumstance when i listened to that stuff
00:19:08
it didn't matter to me this isn't just a podcast it's unconventional therapy for you every day
00:19:13
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy and start listening now.
00:19:43
broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations,
00:19:52
failed these victims. Listen to Bleep with Anna Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:20:00
I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
00:20:07
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations,
00:20:12
and the real work behind it all. As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated.
00:20:17
So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
00:20:22
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor
00:20:27
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, who's first?
00:20:36
Georgia. Yeah, Georgia, you're first. Thank you. Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Stephen.
00:20:40
Oh, yeah, okay. whatever here we go this is a really fucked up story that i'm fascinated by even though i didn't
00:20:46
know a ton about it as always get ready for the horrible story of the gainesville ripper
00:20:51
oh jesus i went there but don't worry i'm it's not did you check with steven did you do it we've
00:20:59
never done it have we i don't think we have okay do you think you did it in florida i feel like i
00:21:04
looked it up in florida and then bummed me out so bad i didn't do it for a live show i don't think
00:21:08
He would have done this for a live show. Yeah, it's so it's like such a classic serial killer horror show.
00:21:16
And he's a fucking bastard who just wanted attention. Right. So I don't actually talk about his life really at all because fuck him.
00:21:23
And I'm not going to go into too much of the gruesome details because it's unnecessary to say anything too deep in there.
00:21:29
Go for it. Okay. August 1990. Here we are in the beautiful university town of Gainesville, Florida.
00:21:36
it's ranked as the 13th best place to live in the united states by money magazine
00:21:41
and you know money magazine sorry what year 1990 okay so it's like it was a weird time yeah 90s like
00:21:49
end of the 80s you know it's like there's this there's that it's still kind of an innocent time there's no like big
00:22:00
there was this and that. I remember. End of the 80s, start of the 90s. There's this,
00:22:06
there's that. It's like still a little like antiquated. And as far as like technology is concerned,
00:22:11
there's no technology. There's none. There was, we were still in full payphone mode in 1990.
00:22:16
If someone had a car phone, they were a drug dealer or a doctor. And they were like the biggest car phone you've ever,
00:22:22
it was like one of the seats had to be removed for your car phone. Yeah. It actually was the seat you leaned over and stuck your ear on this,
00:22:28
on this passenger seat. You removed one door and held it up to your ear of your Ferrari.
00:22:35
Like a DeLorean. Yeah, like a DeLorean. The door had to be open. And that was your phone.
00:22:38
That just reminded me of my next door neighbor, Andy Withington, who is a legendary human being.
00:22:43
And when we were growing up was one of the funniest people and one of the oddest people.
00:22:48
He, when car phones became popular, this was back in the late 80s when it was like preppy time.
00:22:56
And people, everyone pretended they were rich. Yeah. which I actually talk about in one of my chapters of the book.
00:23:00
Oh, shit. How the 80s made everyone think that they were supposed to pretend to be rich.
00:23:04
Right. And which is why we have this weird cult of Donald Trump, because it's all those aspirational people are like,
00:23:10
someday I'll have a gold apartment. Yeah. It's like, why? But. Just aspire to not be a piece of shit.
00:23:15
Maybe. And like, have a little bit of savings so you don't go broke if you get sick
00:23:19
because you don't have health insurance that won't cover anything. Yes. Anyway. Anyhow, my next door neighbor bought a fake car phone.
00:23:26
No. That he used to. Yes. and if we could see i wish it was called like bull something so there was a picture it was like
00:23:32
basically saying it was bullshit and it had a one of those real tight wrapped cords yes but it was a
00:23:39
corded car phone so it was like he would pretend to talk on the phone in because he had bought
00:23:44
himself a used porsche oh my god he was all about that life and it was one of the funniest things
00:23:50
could he would just pretend to have fake conversations because he wanted to be seen
00:23:54
as someone who had one or because he was thinking it was funny oh because he actually wanted people
00:23:57
to be like, holy shit, he's got a phone. Like, I think he thought it was hilarious, but he also did want to look like a doctor.
00:24:04
Status. Or a rich person. Just pop those fucking eyes on double eyes on collars.
00:24:09
He also had he bought he had a litigra and he had his grandma. So an eyes on alligator on over because he like somebody he had a ripped eyes on.
00:24:19
And I remember him showing me the final product, which was Frankenstein eyes on alligator,
00:24:24
which was really raised up because there was a whatever the the tiger one was. underneath it and i was just like sorry where are you gonna wear this yeah you're going to get
00:24:33
beaten into nobody cares submission yeah too it was hilarious but we all cared back then self-help
00:24:39
work on yourself well there you get all the solutions tonight that's right i just had karen
00:24:44
run down with the 90 1990 was like you got it money magazine of course was like a big like the
00:24:50
best place one of the best places live by money magazine it's like god money magazine yeah you
00:24:55
think they have anything we want to read about in there this was the era of like greed is good yeah
00:24:59
that whole thing where it has never gone away and it's it's done real damage to this culture
00:25:05
okay so um august 1990 it's the beginning of a new school semester at florida state university in
00:25:13
gainesville gainesville's like a big college town so like the population doubles during the
00:25:18
school year wow it's like one of those kinds of places but it's also like cute and like a nice
00:25:23
little town. About 36,000 students came to campus and were moving in, excited to start the new school
00:25:32
year, which I'm sure happens when you're in college, I wouldn't know. But little do they
00:25:37
know that their town is about to turn into the inspiration for the 1996 hit horror film Scream.
00:25:43
Did you know that? I didn't. So on the Sunday before class was about to begin, August 26th,
00:25:50
At 4 p.m., a police officer arrives at the Williamsburg Village Apartments because of complaints about loud music, which is not unusual, obviously, for a college town.
00:26:01
When the police arrives, he finds the building maintenance van waiting, along with the parents of the girl who lives in the apartment where the complaint is happening, 17-year-old Christina Powell of Jacksonville, Florida.
00:26:13
and her parents are worried because they hadn't heard from her all weekend, which, of course, again, police are like, that's totally normal.
00:26:22
But when he found out that her car was still there and she knew they were supposed to be showing up that day
00:26:27
and still hadn't answered her phone or her door, they were worried. So he starts to worry.
00:26:32
And she hadn't been seen since Friday. The parents of Christina, her parents are also worried about her roommate,
00:26:38
Sonia Larson, who's 18, of Deerfield Beach, also hasn't called home as scheduled that day.
00:26:45
So neither of them have been heard from. The parents are told to wait outside as the maintenance man and the officer go to the
00:26:51
apartment store on the second floor. They bang on the door. There's no answer. The maintenance man tries the key.
00:26:57
And for some reason, the key won't work. So they break the window of the, of the, what's it called?
00:27:05
Door. The door. Sorry. Sliding glass door. No. They break a window on the door frame.
00:27:11
They can't reach the lock, but they can immediately smell a strong foul odor coming out of the house as soon as they break the window.
00:27:18
Fucking scary. So together they break down the door. And as soon as they enter the apartment, they find the bloodied naked body of Sonia on her bed.
00:27:31
She had been stabbed over 20 times in the back and raped and then posed in a sexually explicit way.
00:27:39
And she had been mutilated. The body of Christina is found downstairs, stabbed repeatedly, mutilated, and also posed in a shocking way, like on purpose, which we know a lot of fucking psychopaths do.
00:27:53
So police are shocked at the fucking savagery of this attack. One local reporter says it was the first time he had not been allowed directly in to see the crime scene, which freaked him out.
00:28:06
And also he said that he knew something was wrong after he saw one of the seasoned officers rush out of the house and barf in the bushes.
00:28:14
Yeah. Which is like that. That's not what you want to see. Because whoever who would you're never so seasoned that something like that wouldn't completely traumatize you as a person.
00:28:25
Totally. Totally. But then, you know, as someone as like a bystander, like that's I don't want to see the police officer not being able to handle what he just saw.
00:28:33
Yeah. That's the absolute worst. so um a neighbor had reported that they'd heard someone showering and playing loud music
00:28:41
on the friday night by the way it's george michael's faith for some reason i don't know
00:28:46
why that was an interesting fucking tidbit as well as banging sound that he thought was just
00:28:50
the girls hanging paintings so it was determined that they probably had been killed on friday night
00:28:56
detectives worked the scene late into the night the news and gruesome details spread
00:29:03
through the college town, including that the killer had removed and taken one of the girl's
00:29:08
nipples with a sharp blade. And of course, fear and panic totally ensue all these like fucking
00:29:14
young college kids who had just arrived for the new semester. And they were right to be fucking
00:29:19
terrified because before they had even packed up at the first crime scene, detectives are called to
00:29:24
the second. Oh, can you fucking imagine? I feel like I read about this while it was happening,
00:29:30
but I was 10 years old, so that can't be right. Krista Hoyt is 18 of Archer, and she had not arrived at her midnight shift
00:29:40
as a records clerk at the sheriff's department, and she wasn't answering her phone.
00:29:43
So at 1230 in the morning, two officers arrived at her front door and knocked. They got no answer.
00:29:49
They saw her car was parked, of course, close by. The building manager shows up and brings the officers around to the back of the house but immediately the building manager notices that something wrong with the gate It had been knocked over Like this is damaged This is a problem So the officers make sure no one in the backyard
00:30:06
And then they try the sliding glass door, the back door, which is locked. But they noticed that the blinds
00:30:12
didn't go all the way to the bottom of the door. So they crouch down on their hands and knees,
00:30:17
look through the fucking little space that they can see. And to their horror, they're able to see the body of a naked woman
00:30:24
sitting on the edge of the bed and she's like folded over um kind of just sitting there with
00:30:30
a pool of blood at her feet she still has her shoes and socks on and they realize that the body
00:30:37
doesn't have a head oh i know the officers hear the water running inside the house and so they
00:30:46
wait for backup in case the killer's still inside i think it was that they heard a shower running
00:30:50
and once backup arrives they enter the house it had been ransacked for valuables and they find
00:30:57
water dripping in the shower and blood pooling but no one was there so like was the killer there
00:31:03
when they were when they first spotted her body they also find krista's head and it's placed in a
00:31:09
shocking manner just to like get the attention and her body is also mutilated so news fucking
00:31:16
spreads like crazy through the community. This is within like two days, this is happening.
00:31:21
Students were terrified and they knew that anyone could be next. The Gainesville phone lines are
00:31:26
jammed and like not working because so many students are trying to call home and so many
00:31:30
parents were trying to call in. Like this is why I don't want kids is the thought of like your kid
00:31:35
being there and how fucking terrifying that would be. I just couldn't handle it. I honestly feel
00:31:39
like I would have just left and gone home. Yeah. I think that's what's interesting too about it is
00:31:43
Like you think about what I have done. Yeah. So many left, but so many didn't too, you know?
00:31:50
Well, yeah, because there's a lot of people they just don't have that option or like it's that thing where, you know.
00:31:55
Like how much do I need to panic right now? Yes. And there are some people who don't kind of
00:32:00
either maybe know that much about stuff like this. Like we have spent lots of time in our life going,
00:32:07
this is a thing that can happen. It's gonna happen again. Right. But there's some people who I think dissociate a little bit
00:32:11
or just go like, that's not about me. That couldn't happen to me. Yeah. Totally.
00:32:15
Yeah. That's very true. Students, but also students like stay together overnight.
00:32:21
Some of them say as many as like a dozen to 20 people per apartment. Like they're just all camping out together.
00:32:26
Okay. Just complete sidebar separation. Let's do it. This is horrible. Great. That would be so fun.
00:32:34
I'm sorry. I mean, any excuse, not that scenario obviously is in no way fun. No, no.
00:32:40
I get what you're saying. separately if like for me yeah when like i lived in new york very briefly and one time there was a
00:32:47
blizzard that hit and we we literally had to walk to the closest person's apartment and i'll stay
00:32:53
the night there yeah i live for that shit well that reminds me scenario but like overall like
00:32:59
you have to jam everybody in and everyone's like oh my god and then you play games and get drunk
00:33:03
and that reminds me of and i think this is a better this is what you this is what you're
00:33:07
talking about but it's not it's awful but not as awful as my know i knew someone who when the um
00:33:11
when the the riots happened the uh rodney king riots happened they were like in hollywood at a
00:33:19
friend's party and they all went to the roof and like saw the city burning and like no one would
00:33:23
leave so they all stayed in the apartment for like a couple days yeah and i'm sure they got high as
00:33:28
fuck the whole time yes so no one wants to sleep alone um also like lounge area in residence halls
00:33:35
turns into like sleeping areas for students who live off campus. Sorority houses hire full-time security guards.
00:33:44
But it's like, what if the security guard is the murderer? You know, they sleep with baseball bats and mace in there under their pillows.
00:33:51
Extra locks are installed on their doors and windows. Gun sales soar. Helicopters all over town at night, etc.
00:33:57
You know, people are freaking the fuck out as they should be. Students are told that they would not be penalized for missing class or going home,
00:34:03
which a lot of them did. fucking try to penalize me yeah crazy yeah good great yeah i'm going to europe for the summer
00:34:09
for the school year uh then on tuesday so that was sunday the first uh the first victims were found
00:34:17
the next night the second the third one's found uh then tuesday so coming up on august 27th just
00:34:24
two days after the hoyt murder two more victims are found manny tavoda and tracy paulis they're
00:34:32
both 23 years old their roommates manny's a guy uh tracy's a female manny is like six three
00:34:38
fucking you know had been a high school athlete he's like bill and everyone loves him he's over
00:34:44
200 pounds um and manny and tracy had been friends since high school so her parents were stoked when
00:34:51
she was like i'm in a roommate with my friend manny and they're like great she's fucking safe
00:34:54
which 100 you would think so and uh so a friend of their of the two of them had asked another
00:35:02
a friend that lived in town to check on them when he hadn't heard from them since sunday
00:35:05
the maintenance man unlocked the door and they immediately spotted tracy's naked bloody body in
00:35:12
the hallway and the maintenance man they immediately like he does what he should he
00:35:17
leaves and fucking locks the door on the way out and calls the police like you know making sure the
00:35:21
scene is safe and no one's going to go in there but the police arrive five minutes later they find
00:35:27
the door is now unlocked from the inside and the maintenance man was like when we came in i saw a
00:35:34
fucking black like duffel bag near tracy's body and it's gone now oh no dude oh fuck can you
00:35:42
fucking imagine so the only reason probably that that maintenance man lived was because he was so
00:35:49
smart to go do not contaminate this crime scene him and the friend who had come over they were
00:35:53
together. Oh, right. He wasn like oh no what going on Let go search for Manny Right Cause he saw the body They were like let step back and let get out of here Unbelievable Isn that insane And the fact that he remembered like you see something as horrible as that
00:36:07
And the fact that he remembered that there was a bag there still, you know, because you're
00:36:09
like having the shock moment is insane. So Manny's body is found in his bed and he was dead of a vicious struggle with someone
00:36:17
who had a knife. And so basically it looked like someone had come in to subdue Manny so that they could
00:36:24
attack Tracy. And it's probably because of the interruption that there's no mutilations this
00:36:30
time. But who knows what would happen if he had been found out later. Gainesville fucking blows
00:36:36
up. You know, the media goes crazy. There's comparisons with the Ted Bundy killing spree
00:36:42
in the college town of Tallahassee, Florida in 1978. And Ted Bundy had been sent to the
00:36:47
electric chair just a year before these murders started happening. Everyone's like, this is fresh.
00:36:52
and were the ones that killed Ted Bundy and now this is going on. The comparisons also quickly
00:36:58
made to Jack the Ripper because of the mutilations and that's when the media picks up on the
00:37:02
moniker of the Gainesville Ripper. And that's like plastered on the fucking front cover
00:37:06
of every magazine all over the country. By this point, the bizarre murders had attracted widespread
00:37:14
media attention. There's all these fucking news outlets and it does kind of remind you of the movie
00:37:18
Scream. You can see where they got a lot of this stuff because, I mean, It makes sense.
00:37:23
Well, I'm sure there were, you know, every once in a while you drive through LA and you'll
00:37:26
look over and there'll be like a KTLA news van with the antenna all the way up. Totally.
00:37:30
And someone standing on a sidewalk doing a man on the street. Yeah. Like, of course, that was happening all over that city.
00:37:37
Right. Because that is what is a huger story than there is an active, like, berserking serial
00:37:44
killer on the loose. And what's so crazy about it is all these women, these like, it was like small brunette
00:37:48
women that were being killed and suddenly a fucking man who like a big athletic man is
00:37:54
attacked and killed too and so everyone's like well now nobody's safe this isn't just like
00:37:59
women who live alone right it's like you're not even safe with your fucking best friend who's a
00:38:03
dude who's like gonna protect you right it's like scaring everyone now and they're like all you know
00:38:07
the media are trying to get fucking interviews with all these college students who are freaking
00:38:11
out i'm sure there's a ton of good fucking footage online that's so 1990 you can't even
00:38:15
handle it. Just tons of scrunchies and crying. Scrunchies and crying! And then in the background, if you want
00:38:21
to call me baby. Is that when that was? Okay. I don't know. Of course there's enormous pressure on the Gainesville police to find
00:38:31
the killer. Duh. There's a lengthy investigation that ensues with over 6,500 leads and over 1,500
00:38:38
pieces of evidence. 6,500 fucking leads. Initially though, the police had very a few carnival leads to go on and uh they did like there's a couple people that got uh fingered for
00:38:51
it and got like in the media spotlight and kind of like their lives ruined over it which i don't
00:38:56
want to get into because we don't you know because it ruined their lives ruined their lives yeah yeah
00:39:01
so uh they're not connected immediately let's so this is like all right let's start somewhere else
00:39:08
here we go 10 days after the last murder on september 7th in ocala florida about 40 miles
00:39:16
from gainesville police arrest a dude named danny harold rolling he's 36 years old he fucking looks
00:39:23
like a young al bundy like he looks like al bundy to me in every al bundy yes yes okay you know what's
00:39:30
his name the actor who i now think of as just from modern family like it would well not the opposite
00:39:37
but it's just such a refined version of al bundy i love that guy give me a second i'll remember his
00:39:42
ed ed grimly yeah damn it norton ed vincent i mean vince oh my god steven's pointing at me
00:39:50
don't say it ed uh harris no ed say it ed o'neill damn it we would never get there i would have
00:39:59
gotten it no wait really quick yeah my dad we were watching modern family one day my sister loves
00:40:04
that show i love it too it's yeah good um very consistently well written for years and the people
00:40:11
on it are amazing my dad walks through the room ed o'neill is on this screen and my dad walks
00:40:16
and goes he's an amazing handball player and keeps walking that's such a dad thing to say
00:40:23
handball i'm like even first of all you're not from brooklyn like what are you talking about
00:40:29
And those are the like, oh my God. It's like hitting, smacking things against a wall in Queens.
00:40:35
That's when dad would have been like, oh yeah, we used to play at the Y. Yes, exactly.
00:40:39
But he just had that tidbit of information. Yes. And he read an article. I bet he read like a, what's those old timey people?
00:40:45
AARP. He read an AARP article with Ed O'Neill that talked about how much he loved fucking handball.
00:40:49
It sounded to me like he had a friend who also was good at handball. Oh. And maybe bragged that he knew the guy from Modern Family.
00:40:56
Like 25 years ago, probably. Or 70 years ago. I mean, like, it's such an old sport.
00:41:01
Yeah, it was hilarious. And, of course, we start laughing. Then we're like, wait, we have follow-up questions.
00:41:05
He was already, like, out in the driveway. Dad. Dad. Dad. Okay, so this fucking dude, this Ed O'Neill, 36-year-old Ed O'Neill dude,
00:41:14
which, like, you see these photos of people. You shouldn't call him the Ed O'Neill dude.
00:41:17
Sure, you're right, you're right. You see these people, and you're like, that guy's a gross old serial killer.
00:41:24
And then you're like, wait, that guy's younger than me in that photo? Yeah. it's bananas hard life uh hard living we're seating hairline but uh if you hadn't seen that
00:41:34
i don't know there's just something about him that's like aged hard life for sure okay aged
00:41:39
shark dead shark eyes no absolute piece of shit yeah biggest piece of shit so september 7th so
00:41:47
this shit all happens and started on august uh 28th and now we're on september 7th and 40 miles
00:41:54
from Gainesville This dude 36 Danny Rowling he a drifter who was born in Shreveport Louisiana He been arrested on this date after an armed robbery of a Winn
00:42:09
Did you ever go to a Winn-Dixie? No, I've never been. Me neither. Or a Piggly Wiggly.
00:42:13
No, me neither. Neither. Shit. I think, are they closed? I don't know. Everyone let us know.
00:42:18
They'll all let us know. Any rhetorical question we ask gets answered. And you should see how I spelled this because I was in a hurry.
00:42:25
Okay. I know. There's an X. There's a K next to an X. All right. So police, at this time when he gets arrested for this armed robbery, police are focused on this mentally ill student who had been evicted from the apartment complex where Tracy, Paulus, and Manny had lived.
00:42:46
So there's this dude who lived there. he's their prime suspect because he had his roommates were like you're fucking bananas because
00:42:52
he was not taking his medication at the time yeah he had some issues and he was like a little fucking
00:42:57
i mean he was an okay suspect because he was a little bananas but like quickly he didn't turn out
00:43:01
um and he was their prime suspect this is the media being like this is the guy with his face
00:43:06
on the fucking cover and it's not him so while in custody rowing he's super chatty like he wants to
00:43:13
talk about himself a lot he admitted to the robbery he also admitted to shooting his father
00:43:18
which he's wanted for okay his dad's a retired police lieutenant uh wow you know and then there's
00:43:24
the like story of fucking this dude's life that's like horrible and his dad is a piece of shit and
00:43:28
all this stuff but it's like well that's no excuse to kill people is it the standard kind of abuse
00:43:33
cycle and alcoholism and standard all that stuff yeah okay standard okay um so he had shot his
00:43:40
father in the stomach and the head during an argument but the dad lived and just had like
00:43:44
his eye got shot out and like one of his ears and like some crazy shit. And so it was a real
00:43:49
awkward Thanksgiving that year. You'd think. So during the argument four months earlier and he had
00:43:55
taken the fuck off. As a teen he had been caught peeking in windows to watch girls shower and
00:44:00
undress. It sounds like a lot like similar to the Golden State Killer kind of the way it ramped up.
00:44:06
yeah he then had become a drifter he had committed armed robberies in alabama louisiana and georgia
00:44:11
like he had been in prison and that sort of thing so um but he wouldn't even be suspected like as
00:44:18
the gainesville ripper until about three months later so for three fucking months everyone is so
00:44:24
when this dude that they arrested the the mentally ill guy who's in prison now for like some other
00:44:30
thing the murder stopped so they're like we've got our guy but so but but for three months they
00:44:37
hadn't for sure caught someone you know which sounds there was no link evidence linking this
00:44:42
guy right like except for that he lived in that apartment right i mean yeah yeah um so three
00:44:49
months later when after he's arrested when the game this rolling is arrested when the
00:44:54
Gainesville Murder Task Force, they start looking at inmates in Central Florida jails,
00:45:00
prisoners who had been arrested after the last murder attributed to the Ripper. So I think they finally find out that this
00:45:05
kid is not the culprit, and they're like, we need to do some fucking work right now.
00:45:10
So they also do the... Let's see. So they call all these different counties, including Shreveport,
00:45:18
which is Rowling's hometown, and they request... Gainesville requests similar crimes like that sound the same.
00:45:27
And they noted that the similarities to the five murders in Gainesville matched a triple homicide that had happened in Shreveport in November of 1989.
00:45:38
Julie Grissom, she's a 24-year-old girl. Her nephew, Sean Grissom, who was eight.
00:45:44
And Julie's father, Tom Grissom, who was 55, had been discovered stabbed to death in Tom Grissom's home in November of 89.
00:45:52
julie's body had been mutilated clean and then posed in a really similar uh manner her hair had
00:45:59
been like spread out and it was just like a very similar horrific thing one that you don't forget
00:46:05
and when someone calls you and says this this is how the bodies were found you fucking immediately
00:46:09
are like yeah this happened here too yeah so the task force task force in gainesville
00:46:14
re-examines every crime that had happened in the gainesville area at the time of the ripper murders
00:46:19
which I think is so cool. Yes. Anything, including a bank robbery. Oh. So they noted that on August 27th, 1990,
00:46:28
the day Hoyt was discovered, Danny Rowling's hobo camp had been found by police in a wooded area located near the apartment complex
00:46:36
where some of the victims had lived. So in some like fucking light woods, there's this fucking drifter,
00:46:42
sets up camp and has all his shit there. And like the cops had seen him, he ran.
00:46:46
they followed him and they found his campsite but he had gotten away so um the police had found at
00:46:54
his campsite a bag of money with pink dye from the bank robbery so like when the fucking money
00:46:59
the dye explodes and shit which is such a bummer right um all that money ruined i mean pink yeah
00:47:08
like at least have a nice cool color so he had left everything behind they they fucking packed
00:47:14
up his whole campsite and put it in storage like just in case they could find him at one point but
00:47:18
like without going through everything and seeing the connection between the gainstale rippers
00:47:22
unfortunately or ripper murders unfortunately but how would they have known right uh so at this point
00:47:28
they pulled that fucking shit out of storage right they send it out for testing and so when
00:47:33
danny rolling had gone into uh jail for the winn dixie fucking thing he had like a bum tooth and so
00:47:41
the dentist had yanked the tooth they had kept the tooth they got a fucking warrant for the fucking
00:47:45
tooth to dna test that motherfucking thing now do you think that that jail dentist just had the
00:47:52
tooth in his pocket or do you think it was like in a little test tube somewhere i think he strings
00:47:55
them all around his neck whenever he pulls a fucking tooth i love that because it's
00:48:00
Like, it's your rotten tooth. No one's going to think to be like, I need that back.
00:48:04
I want that. Yeah. And they got a warrant. They got a warrant. They still had it, even though it was in their custody and happened at the jail.
00:48:10
I would think that they wouldn't need a warrant for it because it was done there.
00:48:13
Right. But nope, they need a fucking warrant for it, which is so cool. We have a lot of protections.
00:48:17
Right. Not enough. No. So, da, da, da, da, da. Okay. So there's a DNA test and the results revealed.
00:48:24
1990. Like, that's pretty new, right? Mm-hmm. The DNA is consistent with what the killer left at the murder scene.
00:48:31
And they're like, oh, shit, this is our dude. Also, a screwdriver that was in that storage unit had been found in his hobo camp.
00:48:39
And it found 17 matches between the screwdriver and the pry marks at the murder scene.
00:48:45
So he, even when the doors were locked, he was able to pry them in. Which, I mean, sliding glass doors, you guys.
00:48:50
Get those dowels that you put so you can't, you know, like the dowels that you put there.
00:48:56
like let's just all do that please i'm so scared of them um they also do this fucking this fucking
00:49:03
idiot so he's like he has a guitar and he writes fucking um country songs danny rolling uh-huh
00:49:12
and he records him he's like a tape recorder oh and he i mean uh some yeah you're saying they're
00:49:19
good they're amy no they're like i just hate this guy he records like he had recorded at the hobo
00:49:27
camp like messages to his parents of like he basically is like the night that he goes to
00:49:32
kill people he's recording like a cryptic like i have to do this thing don't hate me for this and
00:49:38
then also recorded all these country songs that he wrote and they're just like so terrible and
00:49:42
embarrassing and like horrible he just sucks so bad and then like i'll listen to a podcast and i'll
00:49:49
play one of the country songs with horror music in the background. And it's like, you can't.
00:49:53
This is still a terrible song. It's not horror. It's not scary. It's horrible. Lots of people do this.
00:49:59
It's bad music. He just fucking sucks. It's not creepier because he's a fucking serial killer.
00:50:03
But it is crazy that he is making those choices to record himself, like to basically make evidence against himself.
00:50:16
Yeah. Well, okay. well, let's get to this stuff. Because it's the same thing with like when people,
00:50:21
when like fucking John Wayne Gacy is like, I'm a painter, buy my shit. And it's like, well, it's not that good,
00:50:25
but it's John Wayne Gacy, so you'll buy it. I think it's the same kind of thing.
00:50:27
Or it's like, but I'm fucking Danny Rowling. So it's, you know, it's a serial killer's music
00:50:33
because he wanted to be famous. All right, I wrote, he sucks so bad. He's charged with several counts of murder
00:50:39
in November of 91. In 94, nearly four years after the murders, Rowling was finally brought to trial.
00:50:46
He claimed that his motive was to become a quote superstar much in the same way as ted bundy so he wanted to be famous he wanted these
00:50:53
like recordings to be like you know studied and shit he unexpectedly pleads guilty to all charges
00:51:00
and the reason he does that is because he doesn't want to see the crime scene photos of the trial
00:51:04
oh like he just doesn't want to go through it yeah okay he's like i can't even look at the
00:51:10
crime scene photos wow yeah dude you were there for you were there dude you created these
00:51:17
crime scene photo. Jesus. He's diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder and borderline personality disorder
00:51:23
after his, not that anyone with these fucking conditions would do something like this. Just get that out of the way.
00:51:29
And after his trial, he's sentenced to the death. He's sentenced to death for the murders in Gainesville.
00:51:35
Good. Which was one of the things that if you plead guilty, it's more likely that you
00:51:41
can be sentenced to murder, which is interesting. Sentenced to death? Yes. Jesus Christ.
00:51:48
What's happening? Wouldn't it be? Never mind. While in prison. Okay. Here's this fucked up shit.
00:51:55
You ready for this? While in prison. It's been pretty fucked up already. Here's some more fucked up shit.
00:51:59
Okay. Which I didn't know about before I studied this. While in prison, he approaches a controversial American true crime author named Sondra London.
00:52:09
Have you heard of her? No. she is like a uh she's a true crime author like and rule but without scruples so he tells her he
00:52:19
wants to tell his story through her eyes because he wanted to write a book about everything and he
00:52:24
needs her help with it okay so they collaborate in writing a psychological memoir which includes
00:52:31
his rolling confessions to the five murders along with other capital crimes for which he had not
00:52:37
in charge just like wants everyone to know everything because he's a fucking show off and
00:52:42
so sondra london and fucking uh rolling are sued by the state of florida under the son of sam law
00:52:48
which means that you can't make money off uh your crimes right also though danny rolling and sondra
00:52:55
london fall in love and get engaged of course can i read okay about their first meeting in person
00:53:02
she says I approached my meeting with Danny thinking I was prepared for anything but there was one
00:53:08
thing I was not prepared for I had no idea what a fine looking man he is today instead of the broken
00:53:14
and dejected loser I'd seen on TV standing before my hungry eyes was one gorgeous hunk of
00:53:20
a man oh honey honey because also that's just bad writing it's also bad writing it's terrible yeah
00:53:26
uh wow she went on to write Fifty Shades of Grey um Um, here's the thing about people that fall in love with serial killers, especially serial
00:53:38
killers who just, who've just told you everything they've ever done. Yeah. They're not even like lying that they didn't do it.
00:53:44
No, you sit there. I mean, you've told me what he's done and I'm not, look, I don't know what the pictures
00:53:49
look like. I don't know anything. And there a couple of things I wish I didn have had to have heard the idea that she would then be like I need to be with this person there something like that thing i think it like you might be lady you might be confusing um like trauma stress
00:54:11
shock like all those feelings are like i have butterflies and it's like no you're fucking scared
00:54:17
for your life it's fucking idiot your fight or flight response yeah you're basically kind of
00:54:21
like you're trying to get small and be like take pity on me and then he did he does of like well
00:54:26
I like you little lady it's also the thing of like well I know him like he wanted to open up to me
00:54:31
of all people and I'm special and she's like he's totally psychopath but like she says like
00:54:37
psychopaths are like crystals where they have these multi-faceted layers and it's not just one
00:54:41
thing and blah blah blah it's like well the one thing that's really important is that he's a
00:54:44
fucking murderer that's the top layer top one and don't go underneath that because it doesn't matter
00:54:49
Yeah. I mean, lots of people have lots of layers. Wow. Okay. Okay. Almost done. On October 25th, 2006, the Florida State Prison in Stark.
00:55:04
I just copied and pasted this wrong. Danny Rowling was executed by lethal injection.
00:55:09
At the time of his death, he was 52 years old. So it took a while. So this month, August marks the 28th anniversary of the murders in Gainesville.
00:55:17
And there's a 11, there's a 1,120 foot long retaining wall along Southwest 34th Street.
00:55:27
And there is a tribute to the victims. It was first painted in 1990 with black, red and white paint by Adam Byron Tritt.
00:55:38
So he thought it would just be this like temporary, you know, tribute to the victims that we, you know,
00:55:46
that everyone could go and mourn at. But through the years, people have been regularly repainting it
00:55:52
and touching it up. And so it's still fucking there for 28 years. Yeah. And I saw photos of it
00:55:58
and it's just simple and sad and has their names really large. At the memorial's 20 year anniversary,
00:56:05
a plaque was placed below the graffiti memorial reading in memory of Sonia Larson,
00:56:09
Christina Powell, Krista Hoyt, Tracy Paulus, Manuel and Manuel Tabota. and that's the fucking games while ripper murders dude rough stuff yeah man and and you're right
00:56:23
it is like a horror movie because also scream has like those kind of campy elements this is like
00:56:29
this is like the texas chainsaw massacre version of scream yeah you know what i mean it's worse
00:56:34
it's the worst it's the worst of most of the stories we've done also just because it is that
00:56:40
thing of the building fear in the city yeah and the bill where it's the how no one's a police
00:56:48
person yeah where you're at one crime going holy shit what i just saw and then they'll are like
00:56:53
la mary three and four i'll just do the what i know the radio call signs are from chips oh shit
00:56:59
do it again la mary three and four that was their those were their radio calls three four what does
00:57:04
that mean uh i don't know it's like well la is they were los angeles and i don't i think m3 and
00:57:11
m4 oh sure oh god i got it i don't know amazing ponch and john i don't know what they what they're
00:57:17
it just that's what the lady said every time they had a call and then they had to go you know talk
00:57:21
to somebody on the side of the highway but my point is to be a person to be basically a homicide
00:57:28
detective they're not it's not like there's a ton of them yeah same ones have to go to all of them
00:57:33
And in five days, they've seen horrors that like most people never see. Totally.
00:57:39
Especially when you go to a town like Gainesville where you're expecting it to be like drunken parties and, you know, brawl, like bar brawls.
00:57:46
They have to break up and domestic, you know, violence, which is horrible. But like shit that you know what to expect when you get there.
00:57:52
Right. And then this kind of thing happens and you're helpless and you have, you know, you don't have suspects.
00:57:58
You don't have, you have a million tips and you have to follow all of them up and none of them are leading anywhere.
00:58:03
And it's just, I mean, got really lucky by catching him as quickly as they did. And then putting the fucking pieces together because he absolutely would have kept killing people.
00:58:14
Well, and I would just like to say bravo to those Gainesville police officers because of reaching out to other, you know, it's that thing where a lot of the times the stories we tell is when they will not go outside of their area.
00:58:26
and everybody is clicky where clearly this is the beginnings of that changing where they're like
00:58:33
we've got to do it and we've got to do that footwork to figure out is anything similar and
00:58:38
then what like what other little crimes happened that day like those days even a fucking stolen
00:58:43
bike could have been like you know a getaway vehicle whatever you know somebody was a really
00:58:49
good investigator yeah because also if if this is a town it's a college town and it's also a town
00:58:54
that's listed in money magazine is like one of the nicest places to live homicide is is not common
00:59:00
there right so yeah and i wonder if they it was like they if they called the fbi in and there was
00:59:05
like they did they did call the fbi in and i mean that i think they always do right but what's the
00:59:10
with they with like murder of this level what's the it's like v shit i like took it out for some reason it's like uh their their database back then by cap
00:59:21
Yes. They checked by CAP and I think that's another way they were to pinpoint similar murders and that sort of thing.
00:59:29
So yeah, FBI was involved. So crazy. I like the idea that there's FBI in every city. Yeah.
00:59:36
I think that's really fascinating. Yeah. We should go knock on some doors. We should. I'm going to find the
00:59:43
Burbank FBI... We should busk outside of the local FBI agency. They're like, what are you doing?
00:59:54
You arrested immediately You guys are suspects in everything They like We found that apartment where you didn pay rent that last month And then you just moved out Did you do that
01:00:05
I think we may have done that. Only once. And it was this. It was once is all it takes.
01:00:11
Right. Goodbye. It was an apartment where it I think after we left, I think the whole place got like shut down.
01:00:21
It was truly like at a slant. It was really in a shitty part of San Francisco. It was bad.
01:00:29
It was really bad. And I think I remember them coming up just to tell us, don't step out on the back porch.
01:00:35
It was that bad. Oh, my God. So it was not like we didn't have a time. Then you were in the right.
01:00:41
I also put my hand through the front window one time when I was trying to open it and I was super drunk.
01:00:45
Oh, no. I was like four pitchers of beer. Oh, my God. And I was home and I was like, I'm going to open this window.
01:00:51
and I couldn't pull it up straight. It wasn't going up straight. And I thought, oh, I'll bang.
01:00:55
No. And I just, it was really old, obviously. Thin glass that had never been replaced
01:01:00
because I just, I went like once to kind of tap it. My entire hand went through the window.
01:01:05
Did you cut yourself? I cannot remember. Don't you hate that? It's like you were drunk
01:01:09
and if you cut yourself, your friends are like, Karen's drunk. And it's like, no, this,
01:01:12
like this would have happened even if I were sober because his glass is shit. I mean, you can say that.
01:01:17
Okay, fine. When do you put your hand through a window? unless you're fucking so drunk that you're like,
01:01:24
I'll take care of it, everybody. I'll open the window. I'll open it right now. You on the street.
01:01:30
You on the street, are you okay? Party! Come up! Come up to drunk Karen. You can't have beer.
01:01:38
Do you have any beers? Um, I can't have a beer. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
01:01:45
In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security.
01:01:51
one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS
01:01:58
and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,
01:02:06
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
01:02:12
He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.
01:02:18
you can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast the secret world of rold doll all episodes
01:02:25
are out now was this before he wrote his stories it must have been what okay i don't think that's
01:02:30
true i'm telling you i was a spy binge all 10 episodes of the secret world of rold doll now
01:02:36
on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts when a group of women
01:02:42
discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist. They take matters into their own hands.
01:02:49
I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.
01:02:56
We always say that. Trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.
01:03:03
On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so we will downshift slightly here.
01:03:20
Thank you, Jesus. Yeah, this one is older, less intense, and has some interesting layers to it.
01:03:29
Pre-1990? Yes. Okay. But I liked it because lately I haven't. there have been times obviously all my life where I will sit there and watch like if it's like real
01:03:44
detective I just watch every single episode and then sometimes I'll make notes and then later go
01:03:49
back and be like oh that's a good case yeah but lately I haven't I think it's just I think it's
01:03:54
the heat I think it's like cultural political stuff that's happening where I just want less
01:03:59
of everything and so when I go to do those things the things that used to relieve my anxiety they
01:04:05
cause more. So now I've been going, watching things where it's like slow and easy and low
01:04:12
key and like far away. So like the Japanese TV show that we watched last night together.
01:04:18
Let's talk about it. Fucking hooray. Okay. You'll hear it. Georgia busted out a show
01:04:22
last night. I had no idea. You didn't know. Let's, we'll talk about it. We'll save it.
01:04:26
Okay. So anyway, I love that people constantly suggest, uh, cases to us. Like, have you covered
01:04:33
this? Why haven't you covered this? And it's funny, because I, you know, there's too many
01:04:37
questions to answer on Twitter. But sometimes the answer is, we did it in a live show, you just
01:04:41
haven't heard it yet, or it hasn't been posted yet, or we can't post it for whatever reason. Or
01:04:46
like, like, for example, I read the research of Danny Rawling that Stephen put together for me
01:04:53
when we went to Florida. But when you're doing a live show, and you have consist you have a 30
01:04:59
minute story of people going oh yeah it's like it's like not as fun for us and that's in the not
01:05:05
even just a live show but an actual recording too like it's really hard to do stories like what i
01:05:09
just did like the eyeball killer or like any kind of fucking child murder i'm like why don't you do
01:05:14
this one it's like because we don't want to fucking talk about it yeah and there's no way to do it
01:05:18
like that was the cleanest i could have done it without talking about his fucking past and getting
01:05:23
really descriptive about the mutilation yeah we still we still have to do it so that we walk away
01:05:28
here and not bummed out. Yeah. You know, as much as anybody else. So, which is fine. This is like,
01:05:33
it's a version of how to talk about, which is why we love when people are like, have you done this
01:05:37
one? I have so many screen grabbed and saved that people having suggested things like I've never
01:05:41
fucking heard of that one before. Same. And I am always looking for, I just like the weirdness. So
01:05:47
even like, especially lately, I've been like, has anyone ever been killed by a random cyclone? I'm
01:05:53
doing stuff like that where I like you making this way too hard for yourself And then And this one came up the other day because there was this article in the Washington Post a bunch of people sent to us So I would like to thank listeners Natalia and Amanda
01:06:08
and the first one to have posted this article and say, hey, what about this? Have you ever heard of this theory?
01:06:14
I love that you're giving fucking first person credit. This is great. First is like, come on.
01:06:18
First is the best. First is first. Fruity Troll Roll got this to us first. Of course.
01:06:24
of course for a good old fruity troll roll ftr ftr yeah you know um i was like can you please find
01:06:31
because i really want to give credit this is something that came to me and uh and sometimes
01:06:35
i rely so heavily on those suggestions amen and fruity troll roll was like hey do you guys and i
01:06:41
was like thank you so this is the story i get so excited karen just want karen just one second in
01:06:49
me and now i'm like on the edge of my fucking couch i just want to double my article couch check
01:06:55
wait uh-oh karen has a pen in her mouth which absolutely disgusts me don't ever put your pen
01:07:02
and pencils in your mouth people it's just germ city it's like licking a fucking doorknob
01:07:05
especially in this house you've seen my cat sit butthole first on a pen karen god damn it georgia
01:07:11
that thing was in my mouth also this i don't know i'm feeling feeling the silence when we could
01:07:17
really just have Sue and cut it out. That's right. I like it. It's like I've somehow fallen and you have to cover.
01:07:24
And I'm covering with a couple glasses of wine that I've had. And I'm just going to fill the time.
01:07:28
Elvis, how do you feel about it? Great. Thank you, Frudy Trollroll, for sending the story of the Lady of the Dunes.
01:07:37
Have you heard this one? Oh, shit. Yes, but I don't. Yes. Okay. This is a cold case from 1974.
01:07:46
Oh, I know. Yes. Do you know? Yes. And did you read this article? Yeah, but I was like, I've heard this before.
01:07:52
Like, I didn't, like, pay attention to it. Okay. So great. So this was just in the Washington Post, which is why it's kind of come back around.
01:08:00
And in this article, sorry, the article was written by a guy named Isaac Stanley Becker
01:08:06
for the Washington Post. And it's really, it's so fascinating, and it's cool, and it's about somebody, but then it's
01:08:13
also about this cold case. and there's a movie involved which of course you know I love
01:08:18
so it was all very interesting. It's very pop culture-y. It is and kind of timely. It crosses lots of interest
01:08:26
lines or makes a lot of connections. But also there's a book written by a writer named Deborah Halber. She wrote it
01:08:34
in 2014 called The Skeleton Crew which is about online sleuths solving crimes. Fucking fun. And so they refer to this cold case as the Holy Grail of a case to be solved.
01:08:53
So I think that's why it comes up a lot. And I also think it comes up a lot because the police
01:08:59
in this area, Provincetown, Massachusetts, kind of haven't let it go. They just keep bringing it
01:09:06
back to the news. It seems like every 10 years. It's like the one that they really want to solve
01:09:10
in camp but it's also got a really cool name that's like creepy the lady in the dunes that's
01:09:14
like so that's like the talmud shud kind of case where it's like that sounds what is that it's
01:09:19
intriguing that's right also i just said the lady in the dunes which is what i wrote in this document
01:09:24
it's the lady of the dunes i keep saying as if it's the lady in the water the m night shemalian
01:09:30
film that i don't think that many people saw um it's the lady of the dunes okay so essentially
01:09:36
here's how it goes. On Friday, July 26, 1974, a 13 year old girl is walking her beagle along the
01:09:46
Race Point Dunes in Provincetown. And her parents are there. They're visiting their friend who lives
01:09:52
in one of what they called the artist studio, or it was an artist studio, they were called the
01:09:57
dune shacks. So they were these, these old shacks that basically people went and lived in and kind
01:10:04
of refurbished and it was like because it was away from everything and like everything's like
01:10:08
like what like seesaw orn and shit exactly i'm thinking of um the lost boys right now like you
01:10:15
know like that kind of when they pull into town and shit that's santa cruz you know oh right yes
01:10:20
okay um yes well then i'm thinking of the wrong city we're thinking the wrong coast but it's that
01:10:26
feel because it's beachy but it's very remote yeah um and uh so she's walking her dog right
01:10:34
because her parents are back it's 1974 it's an artist shack yeah so you know she's like bye i'm
01:10:41
i'm gonna walk around the dunes and when she gets to um this basically a patch of pine trees
01:10:47
her dog smells something runs off beagles they're good with those fucking beagles and um she finds
01:10:55
in a clearing, the body of a woman is lying face down on a green beach blanket naked.
01:11:00
And the woman has been there long enough and she's in the state of decomposition that she's
01:11:05
kind of a bluish green color. So, of course, the little girl runs back to her parents and they call the park ranger
01:11:15
station. And head ranger Jim Hankins is the first person to arrive on the scene.
01:11:20
So he finds the body of this woman. She's 5'6". She's somewhere between the ages of 20 and 49.
01:11:28
They can't really tell, though, because she has so much damage and decomposition around her face and head.
01:11:33
Oh, my God. She has an athletic build. She has long auburn hair, and it's tied back in a ponytail with a gold-flecked hairband.
01:11:43
And her toenails are painted pink. And her hands are, they look like they're dug into the sand, like she was doing a push-up.
01:11:52
Yeah, like trying to get up. Yeah, but actually when he looks closer, her hands have been removed.
01:11:59
Oh my God, isn't it insane that someone could lay there that long without being detected?
01:12:04
They think it was between, it could have been between one to three weeks that she was laying there.
01:12:11
So that's kind of how remote this area is. And at the time, what the park rangers were trying to figure out is like,
01:12:18
they knew who drove in and out of that park. Because you had to go by the park ranger station.
01:12:22
And that's the old sign up here and we brought down your license and they know everything.
01:12:26
So they don't know who she is. She didn't have a car. They don't know how she got to such a remote location.
01:12:32
It's also so creepy that she's on a beach. Like she's not no one like tried to hide her.
01:12:36
It's like the place where she last. It's almost like she laid down on this beach blanket and died.
01:12:41
But right. But no. Yeah. And because she's so basically because she's naked. Yeah.
01:12:50
And there's no overt sign of assault or struggle. They are thinking that she could have been.
01:12:58
she was laying in this patch and it was, she went into the patch of trees so that nobody could see her from the beach.
01:13:05
Because this is like in the dunes area, so it's away from the water. And she went to
01:13:10
basically not have tan lines. So she's nude sunbathing, maybe falls asleep in the sun.
01:13:16
And that's when she gets hit in the head, blunt force trauma that cracks her skull, and that was the cause
01:13:22
of death. When they do the autopsy or figure out the angle, they realized the person who hit her was probably laying next to her what yes because that's the
01:13:37
angle of the blow hit her while they were laying next to her right so either she knew the person
01:13:43
and that's why there's no struggle and she was asleep or just laying there calmly sure or she
01:13:49
was asleep and the person came and like laid down i mean like they it's just like you can run just
01:13:54
17 she didn't jump up in fear in any way so yeah she either was asleep or she knew the person right
01:14:01
is the theory right or wasn't threatened in some way by this person right and the and the reason
01:14:06
that they are um they're uh they don't believe and there's not evidence of uh sexual assaults
01:14:15
um because she's uh yes she's nude but her her um genes are folded up underneath her head okay
01:14:24
And so it's like laid out in that position in that scenario and that with a pillow.
01:14:30
Right. And her the towel she's laying on is not disturbed. The sand around her is not disturbed, which is very strange.
01:14:38
So strange. So all of that is, you know, that's that takes a while for them to put all that together.
01:14:45
But basically, once Head Ranger Jim Hankins basically sees what they have there, he calls police chief Jimmy Meats at home.
01:14:58
And so when the police further investigate, they find that she had dental work that they classify it as New York style because it cost between $5,000 and $10,000.
01:15:14
dollars at that time what year was it again 74 that's crazy and she had seven gold crowns holy
01:15:21
shit so there it's the idea that this is not a you know in their minds yeah it's not a runaway
01:15:28
she hasn't been living on the street this is a person who has been taken care of who's had
01:15:32
a good life or at least access to good dental care which means you're not probably not in a
01:15:37
rural setting yeah or like yeah the best insurance or whatever it's just it's uh oh my god you know
01:15:45
it's not someone who's like i've been drug addict living off the street and i'm trying to sleep in
01:15:49
the gym sure they're like there's this is something else um uh some of her teeth have been removed
01:15:56
um and they don't know when and they you know like not they don't know if it's prior or
01:16:03
Didn't specify. But I mean, I think it was, I think it was, um, they believe in the act, like her teeth
01:16:11
were removed because later on they suspect Whitey Boulder, uh, he, they actually question
01:16:19
him. Okay. Keep going. This is, I'm so, I, I only know the basics of this and I'm so fucking deep into this and
01:16:26
sad. It's very cool. But also I will say this. I, um, there's, I'm sure so much more online because so many people have done the internet
01:16:35
work about this. So if, if you want the deep dive to know all these details and I would highly recommend,
01:16:41
um, that it, you know, first of all, this, I already bought and started Deborah Halber's
01:16:46
book, The Skeleton Crew. And it's great. I'm doing it immediately. It's great. Um, but also this is just, this is something that, you know, it's one of those things that
01:16:56
if I right now went online and then saw where people are like, the Whitey Bulger theory is so immature or whatever,
01:17:03
where I'm always like afterwards I always go like, why don't I check Reddit first?
01:17:07
They know everything. Reddit knows everything. They know everything. I know. So let me get back to my paragraph.
01:17:16
Go ahead. Do it then. I'm going to wait here and just talk until you find it. They find two sets of footprints leading to her body.
01:17:26
As one Jesus. That's terrible. It's what we do. And then 50 yards away, there's a set of tire tracks.
01:17:34
But all the park rangers, all the vehicles were accounted for. So that never helps anybody.
01:17:44
But what if it's one of the park rangers? I mean, could be. That's Reddit. They're like, God damn it, Georgia.
01:17:50
They're like, we already fucking, we did that already twice. We did it in 1997. Okay They think her body could have been there for up to three weeks But because they at the dunes so there lots of insects the decomposition makes it makes it hard And she laying in the sun
01:18:06
Yeah. She's laying in a patch where it's... Right. And there's lots of grass around her.
01:18:10
Also, the picture... Is that a photo? Mm-hmm. There's pictures. Actually, do you mind just clicking on that article so that I can show Georgia?
01:18:19
Look, I'm going to do it at some point tonight, whether it's when you guys are here or when
01:18:23
you're gone and I can't sleep. Stop confronting me about your pictures. No, what I'm saying is I'm a monster.
01:18:27
Just show it to me now. Okay. But Stephen, don't look at it. I should just not make Stephen look at this.
01:18:36
I want Stephen to sue us for traumatic stress at some point. No, it's a Washington Post article.
01:18:45
So essentially, her face and head are unidentifiable because of the wound, because of the decomposition.
01:18:54
Even though the head trauma, because her skull was cracked, that was determined to be the cause of death,
01:19:00
she's also strangled so severely that she was almost decapitated. Which was also a Whitey Bulger thing of garroting people, I think.
01:19:11
I don't really know anything about Whitey Bulger. Bulger, I think? Every time I say it, I think I should be saying the other one.
01:19:17
I don't know anything about him. He's a hitman. I know he's a hitman, but I didn't know.
01:19:21
Well, then you do know something about him. okay hold on you got me back earlier yeah that sounded like you feel the sting of it third grader
01:19:30
and it hurt and it really hurt it brought me back to third grade i need to fucking write a new chapter
01:19:35
for the book about that third grade good that'll be for the uh that's bonus content yeah oh i see
01:19:40
it it's like a far away you can't really tell you can't really see but you can like yeah see that oh
01:19:47
i see her foot i see that there's something oh poor baby the only clothes that were found there
01:19:52
were a blue bandana and that pair of jeans that were folded under her head. So she also had a hamburger and french fries in her stomach,
01:20:02
which meant that she had been in town recently because she hadn't metabolized those yet.
01:20:09
So there's nowhere to get any of that stuff where she was. So, of course, they begin searching and questioning as many people as they can,
01:20:17
and they look through missing person reports and the list of vehicles that were in the entire area at the time.
01:20:24
They're getting nothing back. Then when the police chief first sees the scene, the first person he thinks of is they had just had,
01:20:36
he had just prosecuted and sent to jail a serial killer named Tony Costa. And for a second, he thinks this could be his work.
01:20:46
And then, but that would be impossible because Tony Costa had hung himself in jail two months
01:20:50
before, but it would, it had been right before. Crazy. Bummer. There was another lead that they had, which I think is interesting.
01:20:57
It was an escaped female prisoner named Rory Kessinger and who was around 25 at the time
01:21:03
and, uh, she had disappeared. And so they were like, maybe it's, why don't we know more about this woman?
01:21:10
I know. I mean, you can Google it. I'm sure there's plenty to know. And Reddit's like, we'll fucking tell you.
01:21:17
But when they went and took DNA from Kessinger's mother, obviously later on when DNA was modern and developed, it wasn't a match.
01:21:27
So then there's the Whitey Boulder theory because he removed his victim's teeth.
01:21:32
So you couldn't identify them as easily. And hands. And hands. So no fingerprints.
01:21:38
But I don't know if that was his thing. Right. He had also been seen with a woman resembling the victim around the same time.
01:21:45
That's where he was, like, located and shit? Yeah, yeah. He was, I think he was Boston.
01:21:50
Everyone can now go watch the Johnny Depp movie about him. Okay. And learn everything.
01:21:55
I don't like Johnny Depp, and I refuse to watch his movies. I just don't like hit men.
01:21:59
I just don't. I don't like men who hit. No, of any kind. So the police question him, but they can't ever link him to anything.
01:22:08
There's no evidence linking him except for the MO. Yeah. Then there's a serial killer named Haddon Clark, who I've never heard of.
01:22:16
He was also a paranoid schizophrenic, and he was in jail at the time. He tells an inmate, quote, I could have given the cops her name because I killed her, but not after they beat the shit out of me.
01:22:31
so uh he also told the other inmate that what the cops were looking for was buried in his
01:22:39
grandfather's garden and then finally he sent a letter to his friend from jail saying he killed
01:22:45
a woman in cape cod and then he did drawings of a handless woman on her stomach naked he did it
01:22:53
and along with a map where her body was found he did it i think it's him um he also led police
01:23:00
where he claimed to have buried two women 20 years ago. But none of these clues or leads or anything lead to actual evidence.
01:23:09
Who is he? I want to know this Haddon Clark. I've never heard of him and didn't have time to do a separate book report on him.
01:23:16
So that's a future thing for you. Okay, great. But basically, with all these leads, this case goes cold.
01:23:23
So the police end up, over time, exhuming her body twice. So in 1980, basically the case goes cold for six years.
01:23:31
Then in 1980, authorities exhume her body so that they can test it for more leads.
01:23:37
They're like, we have to do something. Then they rebury the body, but they keep the skull because they know that there's evidence there that maybe they just don't know it now.
01:23:47
That's so awful. I know. and eventually the police chief James Meads he puts the skull on his desk and leaves it there what because he says he vows to find the name of this woman that the lady of the dunes will be identified before he retires
01:24:09
So then again, they exhume her in 2000 because DNA developments. And so they gather more DNA for testing that they didn't have in 1980.
01:24:21
in 2010 the forensic reconstruction of the lady of the dunes face appears in the boston globe
01:24:29
and that's when deborah halberd the author of the skeleton crew she sees it in the globe and
01:24:35
inspires her to write a book about all these unsolved cases that people are working on on
01:24:40
the internet and that's that's basically what got her the full name of the book sorry is the
01:24:46
Skeleton Crew, How Amateur Sleuths Are Solving America's Coldest Cases. Amazing.
01:24:51
Very cool. So this is the modern layer that's fun and exciting and weird. Okay. That made me go crazy.
01:25:01
Okay. In 2015, there's a writer named Joe Hill, and he's watching an episode of Haunting Evidence.
01:25:12
It was, the episode was from 2006. It was season one, episode six. He's watching it.
01:25:19
They and they bring up the lady of the dunes. They show that reconstruct the facial reconstruction of her.
01:25:27
And they show and they describe the clothes that were found with her, the jeans and the blue bandana.
01:25:35
That she wore around her head. The blue bandana. Yes. Like a kerchief. Exactly. We call it a schmata.
01:25:42
And yeah, that's right. so basically he watches that and is fascinated by it and then soon
01:25:50
after he goes to the 50th anniversary screening of Jaws it's his favorite movie and he takes his
01:26:00
three sons to go see it and as they're watching it's 54 minutes and 2 seconds into the movie
01:26:07
you know the part where they reopen the beach so everyone can go to the beach for the 4th of July
01:26:12
so they have all these big crowd scenes of people going to the beach and wait is that filmed in kate
01:26:19
cod yes it's filmed like right there it was it was filmed 100 miles it was filmed in two different
01:26:26
beach locations 100 miles from where her body was found okay but basically in the same you know
01:26:32
state general area okay but not right there okay but nearby and when he's watching he spots this
01:26:42
woman in the crowd i've seen this oh my god she has a blue schmata kerchief on her head
01:26:52
long auburn hair long brown hair loose white t-shirt blue jeans she looks mid-20s just like a random woman in the background athletic build probably five six yeah um
01:27:07
and when you see her the the woman in his pictures nose is a bit bigger than the one in the facial
01:27:14
reconstruction it's creepy but it's he basically spotted it and then he talks about in this article
01:27:21
thank you in the Boston in the Washington Post article he talks about how there's no rewind when
01:27:26
you're at the movie right there's no pausing at the movies so then he was just like freaking out
01:27:31
and going could it be and he says he knows it's because he's a writer and he writes like ghost
01:27:37
stories and creepy stories yeah so he's like of course my brain wants to fill that in and wants
01:27:41
to make that connection but what if what if what if um and so then he goes home and so wait the
01:27:48
jaws and that scene everything was filmed like right before she got murdered or like she was
01:27:52
That's right. So they were filming Jaws in 1974 in that area. If I knew more about Cape Cod, I would be able to explain it, but I kind of can't. But it's basically the explanation is within 100 miles.
01:28:07
which I realize is wide except they had to get people so those crowd scenes they had to get a shit fucking ton
01:28:17
of people to show up because it had to be the thing of look at all these people here
01:28:23
so it was hundreds and hundreds of extras small town but that's also a typical outfit
01:28:29
for the mid 70s too and the hair you know it's not that out of character or for a woman to be wearing that at the beach.
01:28:39
No, no, no. But I think it's just him seeing. It's basically the story that gets looped in his mind
01:28:46
that is very, it's just like the kind of lead where you go, it's possible. Yeah, yeah.
01:28:50
Is because if she, everybody knew that Spielberg was making a movie on a cape that summer.
01:28:56
Right. Everyone nearby knew it. Yeah. And everybody knew that they needed people for crowd scenes.
01:29:01
They said that that was the thing that went all around everywhere. so so it wasn't like if it was like okay we live here but up in bakersfield they're making a movie
01:29:10
and we might be able to be in it let's drive up there like and maybe let's hitchhike up there
01:29:15
because it's 1974 and maybe i'm rich and i live in this town with my parents but i want to go up
01:29:22
there and take my gold fillings up and fucking have a weekend well that makes sense and then it
01:29:27
makes sense too if whoever she is uh her parents had passed away and she was just like on her own
01:29:33
because someone would have connected her with a missing person by now. You know what I mean?
01:29:38
Yes. So that makes me think that, like, there weren't a lot of people who knew her
01:29:42
or she was escaping a fucking, you know, a mess and no one reported her missing because they didn't think she was.
01:29:50
They thought she just fucking skipped town. Now, this is making me think of the Teacher's Pet podcast
01:29:54
where a woman who had tons of family friends a brother who was a cop and the exact same fucking thing happened because it was back in the day
01:30:05
and people kept going, I thought they were going to take care of it. I thought the police were taking care of it.
01:30:10
And if you have one person giving a cover story, she's not here because she went to Europe
01:30:15
because she finally wants to be a painter. She joined a cult or something. She told us to say, fuck you.
01:30:19
And everyone goes, oh, that's awful. And then this is what actually ended up happening.
01:30:24
yeah yeah that's a good point i mean it's just something but i i think it's kind of an interesting
01:30:29
thing of um the that they shot that scene in july of 1974 yeah and her body is found at the end of
01:30:38
july of 1974 wait okay i don't think i realized it was that close yes and they've never been able
01:30:44
to fucking find if this extra woman was like oh no that was me i'm alive what's up no because the
01:30:50
casting director and i don't know if it's the casting director of jaws or if they had hired an
01:30:54
extras casting director yeah um could be a different person but whoever that person what
01:30:59
would be that would have known any names or i guess i mean like how would you know you don't
01:31:04
get names names you get release forms yeah i've been an extra and they give zero to none shit
01:31:09
about you yeah but even that person died in 2009 so any they they can't figure out the way to trace
01:31:16
hundreds of people that way dude hundreds of potentially locals yeah and it's like a thing
01:31:22
that a ton of people did oh my god um but he still goes in and pulls the thing and talks about his
01:31:28
theory and brings it to the police and they're like we've heard this theory yes you know like
01:31:33
thank you and they're he said they're receptive but it didn't it didn't thrill them it wasn't
01:31:39
something they hadn't heard before and no link is found but here is the quote from joe hill in the
01:31:47
washington in the washington post article that i liked two astonishing things happened on cake
01:31:52
god in the summer of 1974 one is that steven spielberg filmed jaws and the others that someone
01:31:58
murdered this woman in the dunes outside provincetown and got away with it anything that
01:32:02
stirs people's memories could potentially be productive and this is still an unsolved cold
01:32:08
case and joe hill now has a podcast called inside jaws and that's how this story i think got brought
01:32:17
to light wow is because he loves that movie so much and then the thing i will say now at the very
01:32:24
end because in every article it's what they start with but joe hill is his pen name and he actually
01:32:30
is Stephen King's son. Dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun. Oh, my God. Yeah, and that's
01:32:38
The Lady of the Dunes. Dude. The cold case that everyone's still working on and hopefully will get solved
01:32:46
someday soon. Stephen, solve it. That's bananas. I know, right? Oh, my God. God.
01:32:55
I know. What if it gets solved soon? Also, let's just, I love that movie, Jaws, so much.
01:33:00
Yes. the best it's truly a perfect movie yeah it is it's a perfectly perfectly done movie and the idea
01:33:07
that it was steven spielberg's like basically like aside from duel it was his first big like
01:33:13
blockbuster is crazy and that now it could be possibly tied to a fucking cold case murder of a
01:33:19
woman that's like that's the creepiest thing i've ever that's it's so you know what it's like it's
01:33:24
like the guy in the exorcist that was the x-ray technician that was a serial killer it's that
01:33:28
thing i love that so much where there some things you know it's not common at all that it's a movie
01:33:34
but there are things where like people get captured on film because and it back then it did happen
01:33:41
sometimes it's much more common today yeah but like back then it happened but it's just also
01:33:47
those weird backstories of like in like the wizard of oz you could see the legs of someone who hang
01:33:52
themselves from a tree or like and three men and a baby you know that was a stork right yeah i know
01:33:56
that was yeah and then the three men and a baby you can see a ghost in the background from a person
01:34:01
who killed themselves which is like none of it's true it's all explained away but it just like adds
01:34:05
this level of like um like lure uh this like lore to this you know and it's just as fun at least for
01:34:13
me obviously the way i just said that to you because it clearly it's the third grade episode
01:34:18
but at least for smart people like me is that what you know at least for people that read half
01:34:23
in an article like me but it's just as fun to get caught up in the in the lore yeah and then debunk
01:34:30
the lore yeah you get to be all the people you get to be the innocent because there's no answer
01:34:35
and then yeah and then you get to read the article that says that was actually a cardboard cutout of
01:34:40
a little boy that they hid behind the curtain thinking get rid of this and then everybody
01:34:45
thinks it's a ghost yeah which is just as fun as there's a ghost to me totally because what if we're
01:34:52
all wrong yeah and we and guess what cardboard cutouts are ghosts what if ghosts are cardboard
01:34:58
cutouts what yeah every time it's just somebody floating a cardboard cutout by you it's a ghost
01:35:04
with a cardboard cutout paranormal cardboard cutout experiences my new series someone please
01:35:09
make the our new series someone hi i'm ep that's right we just think of an idea and i'm like well
01:35:16
did you hear about my new series someone please make of your idea yeah someone please make the
01:35:21
fucking um like logo up like on the you know it's already done you don't have to i know i know it's
01:35:27
wednesday night and by tomorrow morning it's done again thank you fruity troll roll for being a part
01:35:33
of our lives oh that was that was a wild ride i i i mean i feel like this could have also been
01:35:40
it was a shorty for me but this could have been 12 pages long with all of the players
01:35:47
There's so much to learn and grow from in these. Truly, who is? The next eight episodes are going to be based off of this story.
01:35:55
Who is Haddon Clark? Whitey Bulger. Whitey Bulger. Then also... Bulger is... like cracked wheat that they serve bulger whitey bulger bulger like ray bulger who played the
01:36:06
scarecrow in the wizard of a good while away the hours we're going crazy sorry elvis he's pissed
01:36:16
all right do you have a uh fucking hurry for this week gotta listen hanging out say it from
01:36:22
hanging out with you last night with cheese oh you like hung out like normal people you started
01:36:28
that with the same tone as I don't have one forget it you just reached out to me and what if I broke
01:36:32
your fucking finger out of love I can't handle like sincerity so much that I can give you a
01:36:38
compliment I have to break your fucking finger talk about it more talk about it last night okay
01:36:41
so I text Karen and I was like we have like we have so much fucking work to do there's another
01:36:46
announcement coming in the next couple weeks uh we have so much work and it's big and like we and
01:36:52
it's like we have emails to answer it's more than we could just do over text like do you want to
01:36:56
come over and then i also wrote or do you just want to come over and watch the new uh golden
01:37:01
state killer documentary and get and i'll drink because that's no we're not complaining obviously
01:37:08
yeah so much oh my god to the lord and jesus and yahweh tripping upwards during a montage
01:37:13
is our life right now but to the point where we can't watch the golden state killer the new
01:37:20
episode Paul holds central trick because we're that busy. That's just to give you scope and space.
01:37:26
So feel bad for us. We don't even have children. Okay. So I was like, let's do all this work being like a boring fucking matronly.
01:37:35
Like we have to work or just fucking come over. Let's hang out. Vince went, was that another?
01:37:40
Vince was at a baseball game last night again. And he texts me, he posted about it on Instagram and then was like,
01:37:47
why do your fans keep asking me if I have a hot dog in my pocket for you I was like I'll explain when you get home in person in real life what do you mean no no on
01:37:59
his photo that he posted they were like did you put a hot dog in your pocket for Georgia he's like
01:38:03
what the fuck are he because he doesn't listen and I don't tell him and then I was like I swear
01:38:08
it sounds sexual but it was not a sexual joke it's not even a joke really it's just talking
01:38:14
Yeah. So much talking. Karen fucking booked it to Gelson's and like got a charcuterie and cheese spread that was
01:38:22
like next level and just kept pulling shit out of the bag. Oh, I have a photo. I'll give Steven the photo to post on Instagram.
01:38:30
Was there pear gel spread? Yes, there was. Was there fig spread? Was there grapes?
01:38:36
Fresh fucking grapes? Were there Parmesan crisps? Oh, those were incredible. all yeah we and we just sat and like we watched 20 minutes of the golden state killer documentary
01:38:45
wonderful wonder it's really good golden state killer next steps with paul holes is that what
01:38:50
it is here the thing maybe the reason we couldn watch it we couldn continue watching it is because they showed two early photos of paul Holes and I was like oh whoa whoa I need a I need a warning before you show me 90s Paul Holes
01:39:05
so it was Golden State Killer main suspect on Oxygen it's great I can't wait to finish it we
01:39:10
didn't finish it great yeah because we were just talking and talking and then I and then I remembered
01:39:15
something my friend Crystal Lang and Moose is like fucking amazing girl I'm just a big fan of her
01:39:20
she uh she had told me the other night before about some japanese it was like it's a japanese
01:39:26
version of um the real world the real world but everyone's so polite to each other and there's no
01:39:32
drama and i was like let's watch it so we started watching and got four episodes in and suddenly it
01:39:37
was like one o'clock and vince was home in the morning and vince was home from the game with
01:39:41
hot dogs in his pocket it's called uh terrace house terrace house and it's so the pace of it
01:39:47
everything about it is so soothing and so calming and also like at first we were like wait is this
01:39:55
boring do we want to watch it and then suddenly i'm like next one next one and it's a little like
01:39:59
problematic in the man versus woman and like they're they're like exploring uh gender issues
01:40:04
in japan and and like you know what you're supposed to be doing with your life by 20
01:40:09
fucking three or whatever yes but it's really subtle and really polite and there's a lot of
01:40:14
food shots which i appreciate it's also really awkward because they clearly have nothing to talk
01:40:18
about because nobody is scandalous like a couple a man and a woman went for a run and they were like
01:40:23
you know that's the scandal yeah that they went for a run together but but still i find the most
01:40:30
fat like the most magnetic fascinating thing that i want to watch in the world is the moment where
01:40:36
two people who might like each other are trying to make small talk oh jesus even when even in this
01:40:41
show where they were not being exploitive they were not being like dirty or raunchy at all never
01:40:46
it's just that moment where like everyone else gets up and goes well we're going to bed because
01:40:51
we're not just going to sit here watching the two of you try to make small talk around and the
01:40:55
producers are like leave them alone leave them alone but you can't but they won't leave them
01:40:59
alone in like a closed room like no one is known together in any like compromising situations no
01:41:04
you have to be alone with these really large sectional couches yeah but and also there's always
01:41:09
this thing you know someone like someone else or when they're not talking to each other someone has
01:41:15
to do a weird arm stretch yeah yeah weird physical stretching while making small talk and where like
01:41:22
to fill silence or show someone a photo on their phone like really close to their face yeah so they
01:41:27
have you have to lean in yeah it's awkward as i love it it that kind of shit i'm like well does
01:41:33
the baseball player like the yeah the model or the other girl but it was really fun watching with
01:41:39
you you got to see the side of me that screams at the tv you laugh through half of it half the
01:41:44
shit i said which i appreciate other stuff i was like oh stupid no there was we were well i have to
01:41:50
say sorry but on both of those shows we were riffing oh but see if we recorded it we wouldn have been it wouldn have worked We were crying laughing at some points It was really fucking funny But also it was just like we rarely get to just have fun
01:42:05
And snacks. Have fun. And that was part of it is last night. It was the celebration of the book announced.
01:42:12
It was like the celebration of like, we have actually hit a milestone of being done with
01:42:16
some stuff. And we finally got to tell people about it. Yeah. And so it was, it was really fun.
01:42:21
thank you for making that your fun yeah thanks for coming um mine is the show the tunnel
01:42:25
the channel no there's i was gonna do this but i mean that it that was mine too it was
01:42:33
no i found it so relaxing no you get you get to have it no it's okay if it's not i mean whatever
01:42:39
and now we're in a fight now we're in seventh grade i was just gonna say mine that had been
01:42:43
written before that's fine i had nothing so it's just these two really good shows okay great and
01:42:49
One of them is on, I think my DVR is recording it right now. So let's fucking wrap this up.
01:42:54
It's the second season of Jessica Biel executive producing The Sinner. And I tell you, when I tell you.
01:43:03
So my friend Molly, who's East Coast, and so she watches things first and then lets me know if I should watch them.
01:43:10
Which is one of the greatest. If you can set that up in your life. Don't waste your time.
01:43:13
It's the best. Have your East Coast friend tell you. And we all know that when you have first season like the first season of The Sinner, where I couldn't stop watching it.
01:43:23
And Jessica Biel was so good in it. And she was nominated for an Emmy. And God bless.
01:43:28
So exciting. Now she's the EP. And I love that they just like, it's the same show with the same detective.
01:43:35
But Jessica Biel, it's like a new story. It's a new story. And it's so, first of all, hooray for Bill Pullman.
01:43:42
He's had a 40-year career. he's so great bless his heart so great to watch so real to watch but this story because i was like
01:43:54
they can't do what they did last time what they did last time was so special and different and
01:43:57
creepy and had me so uncomfortable from the second it starts i don't know if it's the directing
01:44:03
whatever they're doing it's so great so anyway carrie coons is there whatever carrie comes on
01:44:09
the show it's gonna be weird and fucking creepy and like and like slow moving in a beautiful
01:44:13
fucking way and then she's there and you're just like oh is this a cult thing yes and i love carrie
01:44:18
coon so she's so good when she shows up it's gonna get fun and again a little creepy little kid is
01:44:24
always you have you take all my money a creepy little kid who looks younger than he is he's 13
01:44:29
but he looks like an eight-year-old yeah and it's like oh then you're okay whatever yeah it's just
01:44:33
great so please watch the sinner and if you haven't seen season one watch season one and then watch
01:44:38
season two but also the tunnel which is this british show they just did the third and final
01:44:44
season and it has a french actress named clementine posey i believe i hope that her first name it a great name if not and then a British actor who I love so much named Stephen Stephen Stephen Ray Morris
01:45:01
Stephen, will you please find Stephen Calhane? I think he's going to crack me. But anyway, there's three seasons.
01:45:08
They're all great. Each one better than the last. It's just real good. It was on public TV here.
01:45:14
It's Clements Posey and Stephen Delane. So close. So close. So close. That's like the time that I called Dan White, the man who murdered Harvey Milk in San Francisco.
01:45:29
I called him Dan Brown, who is the author of The Da Vinci Code. Listen, Jack White and Jack Black.
01:45:36
I will never get those two fuckers straight. I just can't. I will. I'm too dyslexic.
01:45:43
Color. Yeah. All right. Great. That's it. You guys will see you in yoga class this week.
01:45:49
I mean, right. thank you guys for listening and fucking supporting us and being so fucking cool and on our side and
01:45:55
we can't wait for you to read this book because you know yeah we're we're scared excited uh thanks
01:46:02
for thanks i thought i'd add i'm done stay sexy don't get murdered goodbye elvis you want a cookie
01:46:12
oh good boy you know the famous author Roald Dahl he thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG
01:46:22
but did you know he was a spy neither did I you can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast The Secret
01:46:30
World of Roald Dahl all episodes are out now was this before he wrote his stories it must have been what
01:46:36
okay I don't think that's true I'm telling you I was a spy Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
01:46:43
Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist,
01:46:54
they take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.
01:47:01
He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that. Trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends.
01:47:09
Trust me, babe. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:47:39
A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.
01:47:44
That may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.