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00:01:51
Hello. Hi. And welcome. This is My Favorite Murder. And we're here to provide you with all your true crime slash comedy needs via podcast in your ear hole.
00:02:04
That's right. Any content that you're looking for that involves true crime and comedy.
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This is what. Hi, we're here. That's it. Yeah. Hi. We've got the audio version to please you.
00:02:15
Stop asking. You've got it. Hey, let's kick this off. Oh, God. Let's just do this.
00:02:23
Yeah. Yeah. So with heavy hearts, we're quite heartbroken that last week we had to shut down our Facebook page.
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But essentially, we could no longer be responsible for the things that were happening on it.
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First and foremost, pretty much first and last, I would say, was somebody posted a racist post on our Facebook page.
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That's kind of the beginning and the end of it. Everything that happened after that was because there was a racist post on our Facebook page.
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there was fighting but we went in there and went there's no way to solve this for us because that's
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unacceptable to us we have we are trying to have a zero tolerance policy about racism and then we
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realize if it's not us doing it then we can't be responsible for what happens i mean if our names
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are still attached to it then it is our responsibility that's right and so it's just
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gotten too big and and those kinds of incidents like we just don't want that anywhere near us we
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We can't afford it and we don't want it. My Favorite Murder is a fucking open, diverse fucking audience.
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We welcome everyone and we have literally no patience in our lives and in this podcast for any kind of fucking racism and intolerance.
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Also, making mistakes about or being culturally insensitive is definitely something we have done in the past and that we probably will do in the future because we're two white girls.
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with from a lower middle class background. Right. So we have our own biases and ignorances that we
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work through on this podcast with with our listeners. Thank God. And that we're happy to
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learn. Like, I love how much we've learned through this podcast of things we shouldn't do and,
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and, and did wrong and didn't even realize. And you know, it's an amazing learning experience.
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Yeah. And we are continuing to learn, we're not going to stop. And so basically, we just we just
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have to, we make enough mistakes by ourselves. We can't be responsible for mistakes other people
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make. I think overall, for me, the most important thing is, it's very important that this community
00:04:29
is united. It's a very powerful group of people that listen to this podcast that have reached out
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to each other and that have connected to each other. And whatever problems that we all might
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face and stumbling blocks that we all might hit along the way, let's continue to reach toward each
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other because we're stronger together. And it's really a powerful thing that we're beginning to
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move toward each other. And I think the effort, I think that's just the key thing that we that we
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continue to do that. And I and from what I've seen, that seems like what the majority of people
00:05:05
want to do, and are interested in doing and are putting work toward doing. So we thank you very
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much for your patience. And we apologize for the hurt feelings and, and some of the anger that's
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out there. It's not what we want. It's nothing we can control. And we just we hope to do better in
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the future. Yeah. And I just want to address really quickly, the teepee design, which is one
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of those things that, you know, as fucking culturally woke as we believe we are, we just
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completely fucked up and missed and I take total fucking, you know, it's culturally appropriation.
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It's something that we now realize and will be a lot more attuned to in the future. We took down
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the teepee design. It's now just a tent. And we're also donating $10,000 to the First Nations
00:05:51
Development Institute you know as an apology And we sorry for that And you know in the future I hope we make better decisions I mean that the way we learn We talked to several people who also have popular podcasts
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and my favorite comment was somebody said, I can't believe you even still had a Facebook page in your name.
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It's like 22,000 people? No. No, 238,000 people. It's way too big. Too many people.
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And yeah, I mean, I think we went much longer than the average fan site goes without infighting and the fold.
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But anyway. I'm sad because that was a good place for me to go like late at night with insomnia.
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Like people would post these links to stories. But now we have the fan cult. There's also a forum on the fan cult where you can post stuff.
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And that is a little bit of a neater, more contained group of conversations and links and discussions.
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Well, and we have direct control over it. Right. I think that's the key. All right, well, here's my corrections corner from two weeks ago when I did the Gainesville Ripper.
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And man, I got a lot of flack for this. And I totally understand. Listen, everyone, I went to community fucking college and I dropped the fuck out.
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You pissed off some college people. I think you went, you planted yourself right in the center of some kind of a rivalry, a Florida rivalry.
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I totally did. And I remember getting to the like you of whatever. and I was like, oh shit, Georgia, you have two choices to make.
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Like, just fucking say one thing. You should have looked this up. And I said that it was Florida State
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when really it was University of Florida in Gainesville. Fucking shit. Which, of course, is represented by their mascot, Karen, the...
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The leafy sea dragon. Exactly. So go leafy sea dragons. I'm so sorry that, you know, we fucked this up.
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And we, we meaning me. Yeah, you tried to drag me down into that shit. Karen should have known.
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I have to say it. It did hit my ear odd. No, I have no idea what's going on most of the time.
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That's true. Okay. So you are watching fucking finally watching Succession. Oh, my God.
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How? First of all, Kieran Culkin. He needs to win 100 million Emmys. Make new Emmys.
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Here's the beauty. And I think if you're trying to be a film or television actor,
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if you could just please show us that you're having a great time being that person sometimes
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those giggles that he lets out when he's just about to be an asshole are like the most delightful
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thing that happens to me all day it's like he knows this he was made for this character yes
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and also those personalities um are they're like tropes of people that you you encounter in life
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so often where so often I'll be in a, in some kind of a business or have been, I should say,
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in business situations in, in, in my career and watched a dude talk like that. And then like,
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I think I'm being funny, but I'm actually being a monster asshole, but I'm doing it under the
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guise of humor. And why aren't you laughing along? 11 year old boy or whoever they decide.
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You don't get the joke anymore. Like it's your problem for not understanding the joke.
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Or, yeah, it's a totally, it's not a joke. It's just someone being a passive aggressive and they go, dude, I'm fucking with you.
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And then you're just like, in your mind, you just check off, like never be in the room with that guy again.
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I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Why don't you get it? Calm down. I'm kidding.
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It's just a, it's a bevy of assholes. Also, the one and only Mr. Darcy, Matthew McFadden is in that.
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And he has, you told me this. Sorry, I'm repeating what you told me. But I was, but I just like, I'm so glad you know now because all I could say was like, oh my fucking God.
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Oh my fucking God. Mr. Darcy has an American accent, and he's one of the bigger assholes on the show.
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Just wait. The whole season, he sucks so bad. It's so beautiful how much he sucks.
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It's a study in people who suck and why. And then the big brother, what's his name from Ferris Peters Day Off?
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Oh, oh, Alan Ruck. Oh, God. When he told the little girl, I have an aquifer and you can have, I'll share it with you.
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It's just, everything about it is amazing. truly truly one of my favorite fucking shows and okay my show that i want to fucking mention for
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no reason just to tell everyone is there's a show called castle rock that's out now okay and it's um
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set in the in the stephen king multiverse which i read off of their wikipedia um but basically
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which you also live in yes which means that so it's stephen king i don't know he's like kind of
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somewhere part of it somewhere god does he write it stephen will you check that i'm not fucking this
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up um so like they'll be going through old newspapers and then they live in castle rock
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and it'll be like one easter egg that says like rabid dog trolls town or whatever um but it's
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produced by jj abrams and it's this like creepy like something happened to this town and this guy
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played by andre holland from moonlight as a kid and like did this thing happen or didn't think
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this thing happen and fucking um bill skarsgård who might be the hottest scars skarsgård
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which Skarsgård is that? It's a new one. They created a new one in a fucking laboratory.
00:11:05
I swear to God. Did he escape from Westworld and come over to Kassleroth? He's like bony and angular and super fucking hot.
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I gotta say, and I support the whole Skarsgård family. They've been great to us.
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They like to be called Klan. They're a Klan. And they've been so good to kill Gareth.
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But that's not my type at all. He's not the Skarsgård. He isn't. He's not a tall, skinny blonde.
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Wait, well, that other one isn't. No. Okay. Yeah. I guess he's, but this other Scarsguard, the one who was in like Wormwood, he's kind of
00:11:36
nebbishy. I didn't see Wormwood. I'm not even getting my. What's Wormwood? Wormwood's the one where he, where he, it's like the documentary kind of thing where he
00:11:47
got like LSD in the fucking military and shit. All right, man. Tangent. Sorry. I totally forgot about Wormwood.
00:11:54
I just wrote a thing in my mind I was like did Neil Gaiman write Wormwood Is that about worms And Melanie Linsky who was a togetherness so I fucking love her so much Yes and she from
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originally from Heavenly Creatures. Oh, right. She's the girl with Kate Winslet in Heavenly Creatures.
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Oh, right. I love, I just like watching her on screen a lot, so it's a really good show.
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Melanie Linsky is a great, unsung, great actress. I think she's being sung on fucking Castle Rock.
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Oh, good. Well, now I have to watch it. Yeah, yeah. And also, because you and I have talked about
00:12:24
this but Stephen King books were so yes my thing like when I was 12 and I realized I could read a
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book that was very easy for my eyes to read like I didn't have to concentrate too hard complicated
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but it was very adult and so like it was so visual it was so cinematic yes no one can I feel like no
00:12:45
one can do it like him in that way like when I read the stand I was in the stand yeah the world
00:12:50
was ending because of the flu my 13 year old 14 year old existence was just stephen king book
00:12:57
after stephen king book yeah and i it's just it was amazing i had to hide mine um and pretend i
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was reading judy bloom my mom didn't care but my dad'd be like why does that book have a skull on
00:13:09
the front of it why can't you sleep and you're scared out of your fucking mind you my brother
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in high school named his stupid like sweet dumb mutt dog cujo it was the funniest thing because
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It was like the sweetest dog you've ever met. I saw him as a puppy and he was just like, hey.
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And my brother was like, his name's Cujo. Asher. Cujo was filmed. There's one part where they're driving out to the mechanics ranch and it's filmed in Petaluma.
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Oh, shit. Yeah. It's filmed on Bodega Avenue, like on the way out to my house. And when, you know, that came out and whenever it was, I was probably 14.
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The pride that we all felt. We're like, look, it's our street. It was just so exciting.
00:13:46
I bet. Let's all this week watch Stand By Me again just to have a moment of our nostalgia and our youth.
00:13:53
I love that movie. That is one of, oh my God, listen. Corey Feldman. I was a Corey Feldman freak as a child.
00:14:00
Were you? Yeah, because he was Jewish. So I thought it was like, oh, he's Jewish.
00:14:05
And I like that. That fucking River Phoenix. Oh, he is. Dreamboat. See, River Phoenix in that movie was like when you're a little girl and there's a boy in your school and he's like a little man.
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He does everything manly except smoke cigarettes, but like right up to where like they have a deep, scratchy voice and they kind of take care of business and they're not mean to little kids.
00:14:30
And they're kind of like, hey, there's always that one boy that's like that. But I think what he did was spawn a generation of girls who grew up to be women that when guys are hot and quiet, they love them.
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When really it just means they're crazy or boring when they're quiet. But, you know, the idea that first of all, the idea that that movie is built around, do you want to go see a dead body?
00:14:52
Which is like, of course I do. Yeah. If only there was one girl in that. So I could have really, really gotten in there.
00:14:58
But second only, that fucking scene where Lardass barfs at the pie eating contest is like the greatest thing that's ever happened.
00:15:08
It's the best. Life's changing. It's so great. My dad used to talk about that scene constantly.
00:15:14
It was his favorite. I mean, it's kind of fat shaming, but he won in the end. It's kind of what?
00:15:20
Fat shaming, but, you know, it's body positive. It's body positive. It's so body positive.
00:15:25
He won in the end. He won. And then also because our young Jerry O'Connell, who in the movie is a little fat guy, grew up to be Mr. Atlas, rock solid, body, body, body.
00:15:36
Can I just say I follow Jerry O'Connell on Instagram and he and Rebecca Romijn just seem like the fucking nicest people.
00:15:46
And so funny. And so normal and adorable. But like the most beautiful people you've ever seen.
00:15:51
But like they're just, they seem so cool. Once again, it's like people actually having a good time with their fame and fortune.
00:15:58
They should fight Chrissy Teigen and John Lundgren to see who's a cooler couple.
00:16:04
Wouldn't that be funny? They should have a cool fight. Yeah. Shit, I felt like I had something else to tell you.
00:16:12
This, that, the other. There's a bunch of, on the fan cult site, we're posting weekly on Fridays unboxing videos
00:16:22
of us opening what is now a fucking like tower of unopened gifts in my loft you guys send us so
00:16:29
many rad presents it's always christmas up here in the pod loft and i think we just filmed one the
00:16:34
other day we filmed a bunch of them for the month and i think it's some of the best fucking gifts
00:16:38
we've ever gotten like i truly this i just want everyone to see this shit spoiler alert there's
00:16:45
tiny food let me just tell you there's tiny tiny the tiniest food you've ever seen this is my
00:16:50
absolutely like i started i literally started crying when i started to cry this yeah it's
00:16:55
exciting oh wait i think i should read this to you okay great because you'll like it it's an email
00:16:59
steven just hand it to me great it sounds like the news on the news this just in that was absolutely
00:17:05
a lie but i thought it'd be fun to say like oh oh steven just handed me this email hot off the
00:17:10
presses uh the subject line is food network boiling league hey friends i'm literally at work
00:17:16
right now at the Food Network, listening to the podcast, and you guys talking about having a boiling TV show
00:17:22
made me shit my pants. We love you guys here at the Food Network offices. Totes come to boil some pasta with us when you're in NY.
00:17:30
That's literally all I have to say. Okay, bye. That was from Casey. That's nice.
00:17:36
Tell Casey they didn't love me when I had a TV show that they didn't want to fucking renew.
00:17:39
Hey, listen, I got 20 years of stories like that, baby. You got to put in your time in this business.
00:17:45
Look at me now. What I love is... I have a boiling water show, bitch. We both had to go...
00:17:51
Stephen handed me... Hot off the presses handed me this email. And I was like what is this about And he like remember in the Cleveland show I was like a bowling show Why do we have a bowling show why do we have bowling and then he had to basically remind us of our own jokes and i was like that
00:18:05
funny a boiling i didn't like i didn't mean i'm funny i meant like a boiling show would be great
00:18:09
i have to say that when you have a podcast and i recommend you start one absolutely
00:18:14
everyone everyone please i think the new everyone has a book inside them is everyone has a podcast
00:18:19
inside them. And they truly do. Yeah. Record two hour conversations. And then four weeks later,
00:18:25
go ahead and try to remember anything from those conversations. Which is why and I don't think
00:18:32
we've ever plugged this, which is why there is a Twitter feed called MFM out of context.
00:18:37
And some some saint is taking quotes, random quotes from all different shows and just tweeting
00:18:44
them and it makes me laugh and I hate everything I say and do I don't that's not I don't enjoy
00:18:52
normally don't enjoy going back over things to try and so Catholic of you I know and also it's
00:18:58
very like you know uh I'm being very I'm being presentationally like self-loathing right now but
00:19:04
truly normally it's painful and the other day I I started reading it because somebody retweeted
00:19:09
one that I was like that's funny and then I started reading it and I texted Georgia I'm like
00:19:14
this shit's funny that we're doing i didn't really i don't know if i was like we're funny
00:19:20
question mark question mark question mark have you heard of this i guess i haven't been uh
00:19:26
paying attention i think it's best i don't pay attention we haven't told karen that any of this
00:19:30
is being recorded from the very beginning we just she thinks that the thing the mic in front of her
00:19:35
is actually a cat and i just think when people tweet at me and tell me things i'm like oh they
00:19:40
really know me really well yeah but instead of the fact that they've listened to my conversations
00:19:45
karen thinks every moment of her life is a multiverse and doesn't realize it's just one
00:19:48
long trajectory i have to say there's a lot of big words there georgia i have to say that i
00:19:54
right now just had the recovered memory that i thought of the truman show before the truman show
00:20:00
because and i'm so truman show of you i know and before the person who sued the truman show for
00:20:06
saying they also wrote the Truman Show earlier. But when I lived in San Francisco, I had this
00:20:11
feeling the way and and this may have had to do with the amount of pot I was smoking and the amount
00:20:16
of beer I was drinking every night. But I always had this feeling that when people walked by me on
00:20:21
the street, they I didn't they weren't convincing as like extras in my life, like they're playing a
00:20:26
role and they're not doing it very well. It'd be like the it came to my mind one time I was walking
00:20:31
down the street in the mission where where we all lived, me and my friends. And this guy crossed the
00:20:36
street like came from around the corner and cross the street action extra he was so stiff he was so
00:20:41
unnatural there was nothing about it that said he was really doing it and i went first day of extra
00:20:46
work yeah i was like this is fake this is all fake you're like bullshit motherfucker get back to one
00:20:51
let's try that again sir i thought i must have had some sort of weird i had such extreme um
00:20:58
self-conscious anxiety as a child so i wasn't high on pot and beer yet yeah um that i i concocted
00:21:05
this idea in my head. I also wasn't sleeping very well. Listen, I wasn't crazy that I concocted this
00:21:11
idea in my head that I that everyone just played along and felt really bad for me because I had
00:21:18
this disease where I was always naked and I was the only one who didn't know it. Whoa. Whoa. And
00:21:25
I'd go to school and I did this. Everyone's like, don't tell Georgia. I might make you cut this out.
00:21:29
Seriously, I'm paranoid. Keep talking. Just work through it. And then I really just had
00:21:33
I that's the extent of my anxiety as a child. Yes. I just thought everyone was fucking with me.
00:21:39
Right. Constantly. Sure. So I knew everyone was fucking with me. And then you just then you just plan for that being the reality.
00:21:47
Yeah. Of how do you don't how do you not get fucked with? Which maybe is why I'm always so naked now.
00:21:51
Like when I answer the hotel room door when you when you knock on the door. And I think it's hilarious to answer when your friend comes to the door and you happen to be naked.
00:21:57
Just be like. So now I'm like I don't care. I probably am. that's still it's my favorite day i wish i could explain how my eyes didn't accept what i was
00:22:09
seeing because i was like no no people don't do this and george is just standing like hey
00:22:13
and it's like and it was like in the hallway of the hotel so i'm yeah i'm betting on no one
00:22:20
walking by you know oh you were rolling those dice i absolutely was also that was remember
00:22:24
australia we had so much fucking fun on that trip that was in melbourne that was so much fun
00:22:29
but we were also we were having the best time while simultaneously trying to write that fucking
00:22:35
book yeah you guys remember that book that we never told you about that so we had we were like
00:22:41
having great fun and traveling and taking in all this great shit and at the same time there was this
00:22:45
intense chord of stress because we're already like the whole three chapters late
00:22:50
you're already immediate like right when it started somehow we were already late we were
00:22:54
already behind and then it was kind of like what do we do we have to do it do it like every time
00:22:59
And we tried to get together guts out and talk about your paranoia as a child. Psychopath.
00:23:04
So we were fucking planning, which we haven't talked about the podcast yet, a fucking podcast network the whole time.
00:23:11
Yeah. That's right. Oh, now do we get to talk about that? Yeah, it's out. Yeah, exactly.
00:23:15
That's exactly right. That's exactly right. All I want to talk about is how many fucking names we tried to come up with for the podcast
00:23:23
network. I'm not kidding you. It took months before we finally got one that wasn't taken already.
00:23:29
Yes. Okay, so, but just for those of you who can't follow this, and we understand and we do apologize.
00:23:35
Listen, we are now starting our own podcast network, which means that our, this, My Favorite Murder will be on it, as well as a bevy of other podcasts that we can't, we're not allowed to tell you what they are right now.
00:23:50
But when we do tell you, you're going to shit. Here's a, here's an Easter egg of a hint.
00:23:58
Yes, yes, yes. You want to guess at that? I love it. What's going to be? I'm sorry.
00:24:04
I'm sorry. We, uh, your friends are going to be on this. Yeah. Your friends are going to be on this and people that you know are going to be on this podcast
00:24:11
network. It's going to be a, my favorite murder multiverse. There we go. With fucking Easter eggs.
00:24:18
That what did you, what was the other word you used from the trajectory from the past,
00:24:22
from the beginning of the trajectory of my favorite murder, the fucking Easter eggs that are going to come in.
00:24:27
That guy, we did that thing. Remember that thing we talked about? yeah it's gonna be happening it's gonna it's it's gonna take some time we're gonna like slowly roll
00:24:33
them out not slowly but it's just we're so excited curate this fucking network and we've been working
00:24:39
on it for a while and we have been working on it with you in mind yeah with what you might want to
00:24:45
listen to and who you might want to uh be involved with uh very much every step of the way and we
00:24:51
wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't for you because your guys you guys listening to this podcast um
00:24:57
And giving us these numbers has enabled us to have people go, oh, we think because you did that, you can do this.
00:25:05
And so it's just as much yours as it is ours. I know sometimes we say shit like that and it sounds really cheesy, but that one's just a fact.
00:25:12
Yeah. Like we get to build this because of the support that we have with you guys.
00:25:16
And we're so, so excited. Karen, that's exactly right. That's the one that finally we were like, what stupid shit do we say all the time?
00:25:26
and it was george's idea that's what i love it was my quote but it was your idea oh i didn't know
00:25:30
that yeah great you it was like the last minute where they were finally like we wanted it gonna
00:25:34
be ssdgm or not and we were like no it was down to these ones we were just going back and forth
00:25:39
and then we wanted to be red flag media that's gwen stefani's company we want i wanted we wanted
00:25:45
it to be fucking starling media starling like an agent clary starling wouldn't that be fucking
00:25:49
perfect but there's some like media in don't fucking don't hound them please and it was taken alone and yeah so then finally it was like oh let's try exactly right with no
00:26:07
hope at all because everything look and listen was taken yeah and everything was taken everything
00:26:13
was all the slogans were taken kill hard just sounds too intense yeah and we're doing more
00:26:17
than that and we're doing we're developing out right so anyway uh yeah that um that's a we're
00:26:23
we've been excited to tell you about that for a long time too there's been so much happening in the
00:26:28
lbc oh and here's the elvis hi friend mascot i like when you come over to me first elvis
00:26:35
hi do you ever pull his tail a little bit yeah that's cats like that okay good yeah when you
00:26:42
give him like a little kind of a just almost like a massage yeah but a little like get over here
00:26:47
More of a suggestion. Hi. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
00:26:57
In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,
00:27:03
one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS
00:27:10
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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
00:27:58
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
00:28:07
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
00:28:14
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:28:26
Okay, do we have any other business? I think that's it. So many big pieces of business this week.
00:28:30
Yeah, like? Skarsgårds. For example. Any big piece of business is a downright Skarsgård at the end of the day.
00:28:40
I think you're first, right? Am I? Yes. yep you did that i just got um like a heart flutter because you love your story i got like
00:28:51
a nervous excitement i'm glad i'm going first because i'm like excited about it okay and it's
00:28:56
just like it's gonna be it's gonna be something okay wow now i'm excited hold on let me reposition
00:29:02
turn towards me and really face you yeah i like to normally i like to um sit parallel to georgia
00:29:07
like we're both on the bus and that it's just some lady talking to me that i'm not necessarily
00:29:12
listening to on the bus. Karen hasn't made eye contact with me in six months. I think it's better
00:29:17
for our performance. And now that we have this new couch from article, I don't, we, there's like
00:29:21
nowhere to sit. Good. Okay. And because they don't have stores shipping, blipping, blipping,
00:29:26
shipping, shipping, shipping, shipping, shipping. Promo code murder. Okay. All right. Speaking of
00:29:32
Culkin's. Oh, this is the murder of Angel Melendez. Yes. And the AKA the party monster
00:29:39
murder. That's right. It's fucking right. It is. This is this story. Yep. How have I not done this
00:29:47
already? Yeah, that's very that's a good question to ask yourself. I was a wannabe club kid when it
00:29:52
was all over You had huge Junko jeans right I didn have Jinkos but I had the huge stack shoes Oh okay I had like you know Adidas that were stacked up high I had like the pigtails that were crimped in that I wanted
00:30:07
but this isn't fucking Orange County. Like I wanted to be a club kid. In like Manchester?
00:30:12
No, in New York. Oh, okay. Yeah. But yeah, Manchester works too. I was just thinking
00:30:17
Hacienda. Oh, wait, sorry, really quick. Did you ever have you seen I went down a bit of a
00:30:22
Killian Murphy hole as I want to do during my days. There's video of him as like a 19 year old at the Hacienda dancing,
00:30:30
which by the way, for those who know what we're talking about, watch 24 hour party people,
00:30:35
the movie first of all, but when we were in fucking Manchester, we stayed across the street from the,
00:30:39
where the Hacienda was, which is now of course, high rise buildings. Anyway. Okay.
00:30:43
All right. Okay. So back to America. Okay. So I want to say that I got, There's so much online of information, but I got a couple of my sources that I want to go ahead and give credit to is there's a shockumentary called Party Monster from 1998.
00:31:02
And then The Guardian, there's a good article by Emma Brocks. B-R-O-C-K-E-S? Brokes?
00:31:08
Brocks. B-R-O-C-K-E-S? Mm-hmm. Brocks, I'd say. Brocks. And also there's a fucking American justice about this.
00:31:15
Hell yeah. You know what I mean? Hell yeah. It's bananas. No, this story was humongous when it happened.
00:31:20
It was huge. It was. So here we go. Let's fucking time and place this motherfucker.
00:31:25
Okay. It's the 1980s in New York City. These crazy mega dance clubs like Studio 54 are all the rage for the rich, famous assholes
00:31:33
who want to see and be seen and hobnob and do designer drugs and shit. It's like the fucking rich, famous people are all the rage.
00:31:42
Hell yeah. That's Karen's scene. I'm into it. So going to these clubs meant seeing legit celebrities like Cher and Andy Warhol and Mick Jagger.
00:31:52
And the guest list is fucking tight. It's hard to get into these clubs. It's like, there's not for nobodies.
00:31:57
You know what I mean? Like, you have to be somebody. And it fit in perfectly with the Reagan.
00:32:01
Or be hot. Or be gorgeous. Yeah. It fit in perfectly with the Reagan era values of money and celebrity obsession and excess and vanity.
00:32:10
But then the 1987 economy crashed. Yeah, it did. Yeah, it did. Interest rates increased, all these things that happened when economy crashes happened.
00:32:21
You're not going to go into that? Do you want to hear about debt that had accumulated in the late 1980s, began to catch up with people?
00:32:27
Did the Dow Jones Industrial Average move around a little bit? That's right. Yeah, the biggest bust in the...
00:32:32
Okay. And then, of course, in 1987, the death of Andy Warhol. So it's kind of like this era came to a motherfucking end.
00:32:40
And this led to the mega clubs closing down. And in their place, these smaller clubs popped up that were like, fuck the Reagan era values of excess.
00:32:51
And also remember, this is pre Giuliani, New York. So this was kind of a fucking trash fire.
00:32:59
There was there was piles and piles of garbage on the street. Right. It was that kind of thing.
00:33:05
There was not so many cops and lots and lots of garbage. It was a very, what's the word, like urban fucking anything goes insanity, you know, be yourself or be a homeless person on crack.
00:33:20
Like it was just, there is a lot going on at the time. You didn't go there for tourist stuff.
00:33:26
Tourists didn't go there. Right. Nobody was really being tough on crime the way they like to become later.
00:33:31
Yeah. Look it up. There's videos. There's all kinds of elements to it. Right. So before it became a family friendly tourist trap.
00:33:38
So there's the seedy anything goes attitude going on. So in 1984, into this world comes a 17-year-old kid from South Bend, Indiana.
00:33:48
He arrives and begins hosting small events. And his name is Michael Eilig. He says he knew he was gay since he was in kindergarten, but in fucking South Bend, Indiana,
00:34:00
which probably isn't the most tolerant place in the 80s. So he never felt like...
00:34:05
Nowhere was. I mean, that's true. It was a very intolerant time. Nowhere was tolerant.
00:34:10
That's right. So he felt like he never fit in. He was effeminate. So he was an easy target.
00:34:15
And his youth was just spent being bullied. And that included his father disapproving of him and eventually abandoning the family.
00:34:25
His mom seems like she was fucking obsessed with him. In the Party Monster Shockey Mentory, she talks about him and she clearly just adores him.
00:34:32
Now, real quick question. Is the term shockumentary, am I supposed to have known that?
00:34:39
Is that something that's happened before or is it just this one? I think it's like part of this.
00:34:44
It's like Party Monster, the shockumentary. It's not just a documentary. You know what I mean?
00:34:48
Okay. It's part of the name of this movie. Oh, got it. It's a documentary. There's not like a whole bunch of other shockumentaries I need to rent?
00:34:55
I'm not going to answer that because I don't want to get yelled at. Got it. I might be wrong.
00:34:59
that's part of the name of this documentary got it so michael so he's played okay here's how to
00:35:07
picture him in the movie party monster he's played by macaulay culkin right perfectly right i think
00:35:12
he's this skinny gawky kid uh his mother described him as an honor onory little honory little fellow
00:35:18
and an instigator so he's just always kind of this like troublemaker he moved to new york and he was
00:35:25
finally able to come out of the closet and be the weirdo self that he had always tried to hide.
00:35:30
So Michael begins to frequent these anything goes clubs like Tunnel in Chelsea with a band of these
00:35:39
misfit kids. They're all outsiders. They're fringe people from small towns who came to look for a
00:35:45
group that would accept them. It almost seems like you now you would think of like art students,
00:35:51
like a bunch of fucking artsy fuck everything. But like they had this playground of New York city in the eighties to to do anything they wanted with So cool Yeah So also so like that how a lot of like trends come about
00:36:06
Right. Or kids like that. Right. Like the outsiders that are doing whatever they want and doing drugs and then they for
00:36:11
some reason pick up a thing and put it around their neck and suddenly someone else sees
00:36:14
it and then that's the trend. And they're doing it to eschew the fucking mainstream and fuck you to the mainstream
00:36:19
and then it becomes mainstream. And like everyone also remember probably fucking 20 year olds out there like there's no
00:36:24
internet. There's no fucking, you maybe see some people in magazines doing these things, but you
00:36:30
know, it's not, this isn't, you know, there's no, um, there's no internet to influence anyone.
00:36:36
Yeah. When you were trying to be cool in the eighties and nineties, you had to go out and
00:36:40
earn it. You had to go find where the cool people were, copy what they were doing, get in, try to
00:36:45
get in what they were doing, get the drugs they were doing. Like it was all very, you had to be
00:36:49
like man on the street about it. You couldn't just stay home and be like, Oh no, I'm going to get that
00:36:53
same tattoo or whatever you had to really and also that was back when like being a poser was a real
00:36:59
threat you never want to be seen as a poser yeah it's all very clicky so okay so they're given the
00:37:07
moniker the club kids uh and aelig his it's like this mini movement of these outlandishly dressed
00:37:15
party goers they get inspiration from punk snm and clown styles i read in one article
00:37:22
which like kind of is perfect they look like these circus they look like circus freaks from
00:37:28
the future trying to look like vintage circus freaks a lot of the time i mean to me that just
00:37:35
says you did your drugs before you got ready so like instead of getting ready to go out and then
00:37:41
doing drugs on your way out you did your drugs like at 3 p.m yeah and then you started going
00:37:47
what if I paint my whole head red? But here's the thing. In the beginning, and for a lot of years,
00:37:53
the drugs weren't really a thing. Like in all these early videos that they have of them online,
00:37:59
they're drinking vodka and orange juice. Like drugs were not part of the scene at the beginning.
00:38:04
It was almost this like, you know, it was like, what's the word? Performance art.
00:38:10
And that's what fueled them. So maybe they fucking did a bump here and there. But like mostly it was just drinking.
00:38:15
and and kind of just being like hey here's my crazy outfit yeah fuck you yeah awesome very fuck
00:38:20
you but the drugs weren't really there yet um so they fucking got ready not on drugs probably drunk
00:38:26
which explains the painting your face red too i was just trying to relate it to how it used to be
00:38:30
for me when i would end up in a weird in some kind of weird turtleneck with a vinyl dress
00:38:36
shit that i would always do eyeliner up to your fucking ears and then oh maybe i'll take an hour
00:38:41
and pluck all my eyebrows off because I'm on speed. I'm not above it. They're Game of the Moniker Club kids.
00:38:48
They wear over-the-top outfits. They're often homemade or assembled from thrift store costumes,
00:38:54
which, like, can you imagine the New York City and the 80s thrift stores? I would die.
00:38:58
The outfits were unique and crazy, and they, like, showed expressions of who they were.
00:39:04
One person just fucking wore a chicken mascot costume. that's taking the easy way out i mean look do your best um alec was accompanied by people like
00:39:18
familiar names like ru paul fucking grew out of this shit neighborhood area amanda lapore of course
00:39:25
who's the gorgeous woman uh and then they all made up and james st james i know he's in there
00:39:30
he's absolutely in this story if you have never gone on to the world of wonder website which is
00:39:35
basically the production company that makes rupaul's drag race and a bunch of other stuff
00:39:39
in the early days of the internet i lived for that website everything all the good videos were on
00:39:44
there they had everything first they knew all the memes first yeah it was the coolest i haven't gone
00:39:50
on as much anymore like in all of these documentaries the james st james part where they like cut to
00:39:55
him and he starts talking is like it's the best part like everyone shut up he's talking he's
00:39:59
everything he's everything um so they made up names for themselves there's a this girl named
00:40:03
Jenny Talia. And I just love that so much. I just love that. This is right up your alley.
00:40:10
This is so this is like, I fucking emulated this so hard. I can't even tell you like I wanted to go
00:40:16
to New York to live with these people. Yeah. There's a guy named Ernie the pee drinker.
00:40:23
There's Junkie Jonathan and Woody the dancing amputee. And they pushed they also push boundaries
00:40:29
of drag and fashion and they were just fucking out there so the club kids are led by michael
00:40:35
a leg alec known as he's like the king of the club kids he's like the fucking pied piper they
00:40:41
call him and his mentor slash rival i read in this magazine the equally flamboyant james st james yes
00:40:47
um i'm on his side yes you didn't do anything oh wait yes you should be um they're known for
00:40:56
flamboyant behavior outrageous costumes in 1988 so uh village voice writer and frequent party guest
00:41:03
michael musto wrote about the club kids he's just like he was just like like this not as flamboyant
00:41:10
dude who just kind of like hung out with them and wrote about it which is pretty great he said they
00:41:14
are terminally superficial have dubious aesthetic values and are master manipulators exploiters and
00:41:21
thank god partiers yeah um the club kids aesthetic it was the emphasize the outrageous fabulousness
00:41:30
gender fluid was a thing and though not everyone was gay their scene had an lgbt bent and was
00:41:36
popular among the drag queens and it was kind of just this thing of like we finally have our place
00:41:40
where we get a fucking you know all these people come from small towns we could actually like go
00:41:44
over the top we've been fucking hiding this for years yeah let's let's be ourselves and normal
00:41:50
fucking people and the preppies who used to not let us into club 54 and shit they're not fucking
00:41:54
allowed in here that right that and i think that also the at the nearing the end of the AIDS epidemic Well I was just going to talk about that Yes Thank you Thank you Literally the next fucking sentence is this was in the midst of the AIDS epidemic And I was going to tell you to please jump in at any moment because I know you know this too And that may have helped this drive the party scene because Michael once said there was a prevailing sense that you and your friends might not be around
00:42:24
this time next week. So enjoy the now. We party too hard, drink too much and laugh too loud.
00:42:30
Yeah. So there's real reason behind that. It's like, you can say it's superficial.
00:42:35
You can say that it's right. That they're being mean anything. Yeah. But actually it's,
00:42:40
there's very strong. It's almost that thing where the, you know, the AIDS epidemic
00:42:45
forced so many people to deal with their mortality in the literal way with their friends
00:42:51
dying left and right, you know, and a government who truly doesn't give a shit didn't give a shit and did nothing yeah i mean you know why not say
00:42:59
fuck you and yeah and put on crazy pants and go do whatever you want yeah live your life right now
00:43:05
while you fucking can yeah um the group became an artistic and fashion conscious youth culture
00:43:12
and uh so it's all experimental the club kids become a force that the media fucking got up
00:43:20
became obsessed with, of course, because they're just so over the top. Michael and the Club Kids appear on several talk shows, including Geraldo, which you can
00:43:28
totally watch online. I remember watching it at my fucking house as a kid. I think it was in like, there was, they were on a couple of times that I remember being
00:43:35
like 12 or 13. So like right on the cusp of when I was going to say fuck it too.
00:43:39
And I was just like, well, I need to go to fucking New York immediately. Yep. um and in 1990 the biggest so so michael's doing his thing is making a name for himself he's going
00:43:51
to these parties they're having this fun and then in 1990 the biggest club owner in the city named
00:43:56
peter gation puts michael in charge as a the promoter for his string of downtown clubs which
00:44:02
included this club called the limelight you know that gothic revival fucking crazy like multi-building
00:44:09
church in New York that you drive by and you're in a cab and you're like, what in the fuck
00:44:14
is that? Yeah. That was a club. Yeah. In the fucking eighties and nineties. I know.
00:44:19
How insane is that? It's the best. Also gym now. Doesn't that make you want to cry?
00:44:23
Oh, really? I mean, last I read it was, I could be something else now. That's so, that's so the teens, the 20 teens.
00:44:31
Yeah. That was the job I wanted. The promoter was such a weird, you were like, well, what do you do?
00:44:36
But all I knew is you had to hand out flyers and you got way more money than should be given to people handing out flyers.
00:44:43
Right. But part of it was being beautiful, fashionable, edgy. You had to be the kind of person that if somebody gave you a flyer, you'd want to go to the party they were having.
00:44:53
That's exactly right. I remember girls in high school being like, I'm dating a promoter.
00:44:57
And I'd be like, what is that? Yeah. And who cares? And then you meet the promoter and you're like, I want to be with you forever.
00:45:02
Right. So he becomes this promoter because he is like the fucking top dog, whatever.
00:45:09
So Michael got to just throw these lavish parties he would pick, you know, paid for.
00:45:14
He would pick a theme, hire a DJ, make sure all his fabulous friends would show up.
00:45:18
He'd pay them to show up. Wow. So suddenly they were getting paid to go fucking clubbing or go to parties.
00:45:23
You weren't supposed to call it a rave. You call them going to a party. Why? Because the cops would bust them?
00:45:29
Maybe. It just wasn't cool. Yeah, I don't know. And so it would so when all his wild friends would show up with fucking, you know, painted red heads and diapers and with their nipples X out with fucking masking tape.
00:45:43
And, you know, like all these incredible things, a candle fucking stuck on their head or whatever.
00:45:49
That all these people wanted to go to these clubs to watch them because they were like kind of getting famous in the like, you know, because the news would cover them and shit.
00:45:57
And because we love people who are who don't give a fuck. What a relief it is when you see a person like that that's like, yeah, I don't care.
00:46:05
There's nothing you can do. It's such a good feeling when you're around people who are all like, yeah, fuck it.
00:46:11
I don't care. Well, Michael Musto from the fucking Village Voice talks a lot about how before this,
00:46:19
everyone was on their best behavior and wanted to look the coolest and be the coolest
00:46:23
and just be perfect. That preppy bullshit. Yeah. And then fucking Michael came along and he would, he was a dick kind of, he'd pee and drinks and make people drink it.
00:46:34
But that's not Woody the peer. What's that guy's name? Maybe. Maybe it's because he drank pee. Like all these things that he did. He was like kind of a dick, but everyone let him, like he was like a child that nobody, there's one thing that I read about where he had, he had a, like, he got hepatitis and made it into a party.
00:46:53
Oh no. And like tried to kiss as many people as he could. to give he was just like he was literally a party monster he was a true party monster he just didn't
00:47:02
care about anyone and everyone loved that about him there was no feeling like he just was there
00:47:07
to have a good time yep as vin says we're here for a good time not a long time um that guy i mean
00:47:17
okay so so he did that scene okay he will be there he draw crowds to these venues and the
00:47:23
club kids began holding they also a way to promote that these actual parties would be that they would
00:47:28
have these what now we know as flash mobs but then with guerrilla parties guerrilla style parties
00:47:34
they they called them outlaw parties so they show the fuck up at a dunkin donuts like 200 deep or a
00:47:40
fucking burger king and just take over and ruin this poor these poor people who work their night
00:47:45
for sure for sure and just have so much fun and party and put music on and shit they went did one
00:47:52
in the subway and like and they do it until you know the cops would come which was like their
00:47:57
highlight of the night and then they go to the club that was already ready for it. So it was just these like flash mobs in a way. So he loved all
00:48:04
this attention he got. Okay, so this pea drinker, there was a woman who went on stage and gave
00:48:08
herself a champagne enema. Great. So healthy. Hepatitis. Good for the flora and fauna in your
00:48:15
gut. Don't try that at home. It was just like these people. It just really seemed like performance
00:48:21
art for everyone, but in a club setting. Yeah. So in the beginning, Michael and the club kids
00:48:26
didn't really fuck with drugs, as I said. But then ecstasy came along. As Michael just explains it,
00:48:32
it felt like a drug for people who didn't do drugs, because it wasn't some like fucking cut,
00:48:37
crazy, snorty drug. It was like pharmaceutical made in a lab, and it made you feel spiritual.
00:48:42
So it didn't feel like you were doing drugs, which is the and I say this any chance I get.
00:48:48
The problem with pills is that you can tell yourself you're not a drug addict, and you can
00:48:52
just take a bunch of fucking pills and suddenly you're different but you can't tell because you
00:48:57
didn't snort it and you didn't like it was my prescription it was prescribed to me yeah and but
00:49:02
then all of a sudden you're on the other side of pill behavior yeah not really knowing what's going
00:49:07
on right it's so dangerous yes 100 and it's become so normalized now so normal really frightening
00:49:14
yeah it's it's horrible um so michael of course and his followers then begin using drugs heavily
00:49:22
which is what happens when you start taking drugs. Well, and when you party for a living.
00:49:28
I mean, it's part of the reason when I was hospitalized for alcoholism, I tried to explain to the doctor, I'm like, I'm a comic.
00:49:35
I'm in a club every night. We all drink eight drinks a night. If I don't stay and hang out and party with them, I won't get booked on shows.
00:49:41
Yeah, it's like the yin yang of the whole lifestyle. But when that's your lifestyle, then you're truly living it.
00:49:49
And it's very hard on the system. It is, definitely. so he began so so michael who's kind of in charge of these clubs begins adding drug dealers to you
00:49:58
know he's paying people to come to the clubs like his friends who are club kids he adds drug dealers
00:50:02
to the payroll of michael peter's guy peter gation he's like add this guy to the payroll
00:50:09
add that guy so they're fucking drug dealers getting paid like an hourly rate to fucking be
00:50:14
there which is bananas well it's not i might be wrong about this but at the hacienda weren't the
00:50:19
doorman the drug dealers oh i don't know i feel like there was some kind of similar thing like
00:50:23
that where it just became part of the business yeah which seems so normal yeah when you're like
00:50:28
in it um so they become uh all addicted to drugs like coke or hypno special k which of course is a
00:50:35
fucking horse tranquilizer and you can fall into a k-hole which means the ground goes away like a
00:50:41
nightmare it sounds like that's the thing also those drugs where you take one pill and then you're
00:50:47
out of it for hours. I hate that. When I used to go to raves when I was young, and this is like
00:50:54
95, so this is by the time anything hits Orange County, it's fucking played out. So I was on
00:51:00
the end cusp of this shit. But it was in Los Angeles. But yeah, man, there were just people wandering
00:51:08
around, you know, selling drugs. It was out and about. No one gave a shit. Yeah.
00:51:14
Horse tranquilizers, everybody. Horse tranquilizers. Thank God I never tried those.
00:51:18
And eventually, everyone's fucking favorite, heroin. Yeah. Ugh. Yeah. So one of those club kids was one of these club kids who was just super into the scene
00:51:29
was named Andre Melendez. And his name, his like club name was Angel. And that's because he wore these different kinds of ornate, beautiful angel wings.
00:51:40
That was his thing. His like, you know, what's it called? Look. he had immigrated from columbia to new york as a child and he lived in queens and like michael he
00:51:50
had tried to make a name for himself and found the club kids a good place to do it um and he wanted
00:51:57
to be accepted by michael especially and the club kids so to do so he started dealing drugs as his
00:52:04
ticket in and whenever it's it's this thing of like if you look a little deeper than the basic
00:52:08
articles. It says like Michael, um, a leg killed the drug dealer angel, you know, Melinda's,
00:52:16
but it's like, well, he wasn't a drug dealer at first. It wasn't just that he was like there to
00:52:20
deal drugs. He actually was a club kid who loved the scene, loved the people. He was part of it.
00:52:24
Dealing drugs was his way to like, to get people to like him. Yeah. And then make a name for
00:52:29
himself. Exactly. Yeah. So he wasn't just a drug dealer. Um, so he eventually, uh, got put on the
00:52:37
limelight payroll as well and angel idolized michael so he let him get away with a lot and
00:52:43
of course michael took advantage of him like fucking crazy including like stealing drugs from
00:52:48
him there was one account according to james st james that during a snowstorm where they broke into
00:52:54
angel's stash and did three to four thousand dollars worth of angel's drugs and james st james
00:53:02
was like when how are you gonna tell angel and then angel walks in and michael's like we did your
00:53:06
drugs like just fuck you do something about it i feel like i have four stories like that
00:53:12
that's the thing too is when you start to get into that very bizarre lifestyle you just do things
00:53:20
like you don't care anymore after a while you just only care about getting high i mean it sounds
00:53:24
like he was had some narcissistic tendencies to begin with and then you put in drugs and fame
00:53:30
and goodbye. You're fucking, no, you don't give a shit. Yeah. You're like, it's me from the limelight.
00:53:37
Yeah. You know, you can't get in here without me, which is true. Like he could fucking ban
00:53:41
whoever the fuck he wanted. Yeah. That's a lot of control. Yes. So escalating drug use
00:53:46
and overdoses and more cases of AIDS among the club kids kind of starts. And then mayor,
00:53:53
fucking new mayor, Rudy Giuliani crackdown on nightlife in Manhattan starts to lead to the beginning of the end of the club kids so in september 1995 hey i was 15 and probably had a rave um limelight is raided by federal
00:54:09
agents and shut down because they were using drugs so openly and rampantly like it was just this
00:54:14
you walk in and you get a bump of coke like it's just everywhere it's not a big deal to anyone i'm
00:54:19
So sad I wasn't there. So, so sad. All right. So Angel, who had been working at the club, he gets fired.
00:54:28
So he's pissed about that. He thinks that he's owed money. And on top of that, by 1996, Michael was a full-blown fucking junkie.
00:54:38
Okay. He's injecting heroin every day. And as his addiction grows, his demand for drugs from Angel grows.
00:54:44
And Angel just starts to get resentful and feels used. and he couldn't get into limelight anymore and that pissed him off a lot too wait sorry angel
00:54:53
or michael angel couldn't get in anymore michael's living the fucking high life angel gets fired
00:54:58
because of the drug raid and he's a drug dealer oh yeah and so he's just pushed out yes that sucks
00:55:05
yes but also let me just say too just the way this this trajectory is the story of all all drug
00:55:11
stories it starts fun as my mom used to say it's gonna end in tears yeah you're laughing now but
00:55:17
that this is going to end in tears. I mean, the difference in, I highly recommend people watching
00:55:22
the shockumentary because you can see that from the videos in the beginning, it's these bright eyed,
00:55:29
bushy tailed, fucking cool, like, you know, smart kids who are like leading this incredible revolution.
00:55:36
And by the end, it's like dark circles under their eyes and no one's smiling and it's just addicted to drugs.
00:55:41
And that's what drugs do. It just like, it becomes about you go to parties because you need to get drugs,
00:55:47
not because you are so happy to be around these people that are like-minded. Right, because you're not having...
00:55:52
It's not fun anymore. You're not having real experiences anymore. You're not like, oh my God, I love dancing and it feels great to do this thing.
00:55:58
You're just like drugs. Or even like, I want to be famous. It's like not that anymore either.
00:56:03
It's just this negative thing. Yeah. So around this time, Michael Ehlig throws a themed party called Blood Feast.
00:56:13
This is just an aside. It's named after a horror movie that he had loved as a child that he had watched with his mother as a child.
00:56:19
His mother was obsessed with watching horror movies and like watch them with him, which also Joe DeRosa's mom did.
00:56:25
Love that. I talked to her about it once and she told me that she just wanted someone to watch with because she was scared.
00:56:30
So she put her four year old child next to her. I do love it, though, when parents like get their kids into movies at a young age, whatever style they like.
00:56:38
I don't care. So in the movie Blood Feast, this dude kills people and dismembers his victims.
00:56:48
That's what the fucking horror movie is about. Sounds like a real Blood Feast. Exactly.
00:56:52
And in the flyer for the event, my favorite club kid, Jenny Tellia, she's just like, she's what I wanted to be when I was that age.
00:57:01
Sure. Yeah. She's holding a hammer to Michael's head and it looks like it's all bloody and gross.
00:57:05
It's like, this is going to be the gore party. like they had these insane parties this was gonna be the gore one the phrase legs cut off
00:57:12
is uh like all these crazy phrases like that are on the flyer and then i write all caps foreshadowing
00:57:19
okay got it got it i'm seeing it foreshadowing so on sunday march 17th 1996 angel shows up at
00:57:32
Michael and his roommate, Robert Riggs, who's known as Freeze, who looks like the devil, kind of, but like the hot devil.
00:57:40
So he had a goatee and a little trident. Yes. And he like deviled ham. What's the guy's name?
00:57:50
Remember the movie? This is so random. Remember the movie Go? Yes. And the drug dealer from that movie.
00:57:56
Yes. What's his name? Stephen's got it. Timothy Olyphant? Yes. Thank you. Yes. I've done it again.
00:58:03
I've done it again. You're scaring Elvis. Sorry, but I've done it again. Timothy Oliphant.
00:58:09
Also, I just recently watched The Girl Next Door, which when it came out real time, I was like, this is sexist and against women.
00:58:16
It's one of the better movies I've ever seen. And Timothy Oliphant is so hot in it.
00:58:23
He's playing this like kind of scummy guy, whatever that shows up. and he shows up at the boys' high school,
00:58:30
and he's in a cool car, and he's just this badass guy. And he's talking to these two girls,
00:58:35
and the boy comes out like, what are you doing here? And he turns to the boys, the lead boy,
00:58:41
and goes, hey, you didn't tell me you had some real burners at this school. And I laughed for so long.
00:58:48
The idea of calling hot girls burners, maybe that was just for me. You've got to see it.
00:58:54
It's so good. He's so good. and then goes on to become the sheriff of fucking deadwood right calling no one burners no no
00:59:03
loving the widow okay also watch the movie go if you want if you want to watch like what my life
00:59:08
was kind of like at that time it was a great movie it's a really good movie and then that's
00:59:13
what my life was kind of like uh okay okay so fucking elephants uh nickname is freeze and he
00:59:22
looks like the devil okay um so they have michael and frieza's apartment in hell's kitchen angel
00:59:28
shows up at like nine in the morning and of course no no not one of them has slept the night before
00:59:34
they've all been taking drugs all fucking night and the grossest feeling disgusting angel is
00:59:40
pissed off like trying to track down this money he's owed he is like demanding this money
00:59:46
this argument ensues between Michael and Angel and it becomes violent and Angel this is all according to Freeze and Michael so you know please take this with however you feel like Like nobody told Angel side of the story because Angel the only one that could have done it
01:00:06
Yeah, so, you know, take this with various levels of spice. He pins Michael. Michael cries out for help.
01:00:14
So Freeze grabs a hammer and hits Angel over the head with it three times. and sorry to ask this now but this was after that that blood and gore party yes okay awful
01:00:27
i'm almost positive yeah um three times he gets disoriented according to freeze but he's also
01:00:35
still pissed off so freeze grabs him from behind and there's a lot of different stories so it's
01:00:41
kind of hard to tell which one they're fucking sticking with okay and and michael grabs either
01:00:46
a pillow or a sweatshirt and puts it over Angel's face and they smother him and he uh he dies whoa
01:00:54
and then again depending on whose story Michael takes a cleanser or a chemical or Drano or
01:01:02
something puts it down his fucking throat and uses duct tape to duct tape his mouth shut and I think
01:01:09
he's already fucking dead then thank god and Michael says that it later says it was because
01:01:14
he wanted to cover up the smell. But it's hard to be it's just like hard to know what really
01:01:19
happened. Right? Yeah, I get that. Because that all fits in if you're gonna if you're gonna argue
01:01:24
self defense. Right? You know, exactly. So the two Breeze and Michael then strip Angel's body,
01:01:31
place it in the bathtub, and they put ice all over it and chemicals all over to mask the smell.
01:01:36
It stays there for five to seven days. Oh, God. I know. Until Freeze purchases some chef's knife and a cleanser.
01:01:46
I'm sorry, a cleaver at Macy's. I don't know why that tidbit needed to stay in there, but I just found it kind of interesting.
01:01:52
And the Macy's home department. Yeah, like the person who sold them that was like, enjoy your dinner.
01:01:59
And then it's like a guy with a lightning bolt across his face. It's like, thanks so much.
01:02:04
Thanks so much. heroin junkie eyes and shit. Meatly hanging out of his arm. Thanks, I'm making salad.
01:02:10
Tell your friends. So Michael's like, okay, I'll take care of this. You have to get me 10 bags of heroin
01:02:17
so I can get as fucked up as possible. I don't want to be fucking, you know, conscious for this shit.
01:02:23
And then he's like, and I was kind of hoping I would die of a heroin overdose too.
01:02:27
So, I mean, that's what he fucking says. But so he's on all this heroin. I bet he does though.
01:02:33
Yeah. he's on all this heroin and he removes angel's legs he cuts them fucking off just like the blood
01:02:41
bath movie and or blood what was it called blood feast thank you you're welcome um and he removes
01:02:49
angel's legs he wraps them in garbage bags and then places them in a duffel bag and then those
01:02:55
are dumped in the hudson river and they sink but then the following day they wrap the rest of angel's
01:03:00
body in a sheet and plastic garbage bag and they place it in a cardboard box they take it down to
01:03:05
a fucking waiting taxi put it in the trunk they drive to the west side highway uh to hudson river
01:03:15
and by some instances get the cab driver to help them throw the box oh like obviously the cab driver
01:03:23
doesn't know what's in it right help him them throw the box over the side of the highway into
01:03:27
the river of course and then they watch as it doesn't sink and kind of just sails off and they're
01:03:32
like oh shit and and on drugs and on drugs um and angel uh when he was murdered was only 25 years
01:03:40
old oh god so michael michael whatever reason can't fucking keep quiet about it maybe he's so
01:03:49
horrified by what he's done he's done maybe it doesn't seem real in his head because he's on drugs
01:03:53
maybe he's fucking doesn't think it's a big deal like who knows why or maybe he wants to get caught
01:04:00
right you know yeah uh but he doesn't keep quiet and he tells people about it and rumors start
01:04:05
flying and in the scene everyone kind of knows what happened although they're like that's that
01:04:09
sounds too outlandish about the drano and shit but it all ends up being true and so it becomes an
01:04:15
open secret in the club community and but everyone's loyal as fuck to michael and no one tells the
01:04:20
police so angel's brother johnny starts to get worried when he doesn't hear from his brother
01:04:25
and of course they only had pagers back then so he's not answering his fucking page and he finally
01:04:31
is like goes to clubs to try to track down his brother and can't find him the police he says
01:04:35
barely bothered to fill out a missing persons report and didn't really give a shit so he had
01:04:40
to fucking start investigating on his own post flyers all over the city of angel the photo of
01:04:44
angel with his angel wings and everything trying to find his brother he breaks down in the fucking
01:04:48
shockumentary uh shockumentary documentary and it's really fucking sad i bet yeah so he spends
01:04:55
the next few months okay so michael spends the next few months high as fuck traveling in and out
01:05:01
of the city he's still throwing parties but people aren't really going to them and uh meanwhile with
01:05:06
the help of the media johnny's able to get angel's disappearance uh out and like it becomes front page
01:05:13
news articles in the new york magazine and the new york post which is like the best magazine
01:05:17
for shit like this. Michael Musto posts a blind item in the village voice that's basically like club kid.
01:05:25
Which club kid murdered? Like, talks about it. No. Because he's horrified. Wow. Yeah.
01:05:32
Well, that's the best way to deal with a murder. Absolutely. It's just to gossip.
01:05:35
Put a blind item in a newspaper. Just gossip it away. So, okay. So, a month after the murder,
01:05:42
in March 1996, so there's a tropical storm which makes all everything wash up onto shore.
01:05:49
And a group of children at a beach at Miller Field in Stanton Island discover a box containing the dismembered remains which eight months later are linked to Angel Wow It took eight months because he was misidentified as an Asian male by the morgue
01:06:07
Can I just ask really quick, did you mean Staten Island? What did I say? Stanton Island.
01:06:12
Jesus. Stanton Island. Stanton Island. God. I was like, no, I don't want to act like I'm some expert
01:06:22
about the boroughs or anything. what is that how did my brain do that but you're trying to explain something i am um
01:06:30
wow okay but you're saying that the remains were found and then eight months later he was identified
01:06:37
but it wasn't like eight months no a month later he's found okay and then eight months later like
01:06:43
another body washes up and a cop who actually was involved in angel's case puts it together that you
01:06:48
know it all gets put together got it got it um but it's partly because the the burrows didn't
01:06:53
communicate with each other, of course, but also he was misidentified as an Asian male,
01:06:58
whatever. So, finally, with identification, police are now involved. This whole time, Michael hadn't been questioned once about the disappearance, despite the
01:07:07
rumors. He had fled to New Jersey at this point, where... You can't get away in New Jersey.
01:07:14
Nine months after the murder of Angel, Michael Aylig is arrested on December 5th, 1996, and
01:07:20
Freeze is arrested the same day. Wow. And Freeze just fucking talks immediately.
01:07:25
They both just like. That's so Freeze. So Freeze. So Eilig insisted to the police that he and Freeze had killed Angel in self-defense and disposed of the body in a panic.
01:07:37
And he had photos of bruises that he had on him after the fight, too. So he was not high.
01:07:44
He was not so high that he couldn't take pictures of his own bruises. He couldn't go to a lawyer and get pictures taken two weeks after or like a week after.
01:07:52
Oh, really? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow. So, here's just like weird things. Prosecutors were hesitant to charge Michael with first degree murder because they hoped he would testify against his former boss, Peter Gation, who they had arrested for allowing drugs to be sold in his nightclub.
01:08:10
So, the fucking DA or the feds want to get this guy, Peter Gation, on all these fucking drug charges.
01:08:16
So, they don't want to like throw the book at Michael because they need him to be a fucking credible witness.
01:08:20
And if he's a fucking first degree murderer, they can't put him on the stand. And they don't prioritize the murder as a worse crime than selling drugs in clubs.
01:08:29
They don't. Wow. So they eventually offer Michael and Freeze a plea deal, a sentence of 10 to 20 years
01:08:37
if they accept the lesser charge of manslaughter, which they do. Side note, Peter Gation charges are all eventually dropped.
01:08:46
Yeah. So it didn't fucking matter anyways. He's a big rich guy, right? Well, because they couldn't prove anything at that point.
01:08:53
So they could have fucking charged him. I don't know. But also, you know, who knows?
01:08:57
Which guy? Who knows what happened? On October 1st, 1997, they both plead guilty and sentenced to 10 to 20 years.
01:09:04
Freeze is released after 13 years in 2010. Michael becomes eligible for parole in October 2006.
01:09:11
But he claims that the parole board watched the movie Party Monster that had been made in 2003, which portrayed him very poorly.
01:09:20
Yes. And decided to keep him in after watching it. Oh. Yeah. So he's he serves eventually serves 17 years and was released on May 5th, 2014.
01:09:32
And regarding the 2003 movie Party Monster, whichever one you watch, it's fucking good.
01:09:37
It's really good. Wait, is Sean Green the other person in that movie? and chloe sevigne is in it as well sean green is i just for four minutes watched um gold gold
01:09:48
member seth green sorry shit seth green sean green is a stand-up comic i know he's very funny
01:09:53
um seth green i watched a little bit of gold member austin powers and gold member the other
01:10:00
day purely because of how fucking funny that guy is yeah and he has been i think he might also be
01:10:05
in go yes he is he is right steven um back me up god damn it steven why won't you no he is i think
01:10:15
he is or i might be thinking of can't hardly wait yeah i think anyway because he plays like a raver
01:10:19
kid club kid in that movie oh is that what i'm doing oh yeah he's not in go yes fuck you both
01:10:24
you take your you take your p-roll of it and you shove it up your ass i haven't done it again
01:10:31
shit but anyway that guy's i feel like he has been a massive talent since he's like five years
01:10:38
old yes he is so talented and continues to be with fucking robot chicken robot i was gonna call
01:10:45
it freeway chicken good night grandma seth green everyone seth green everybody um okay so the
01:10:52
The movie Poot Pee... Where are we? Poot? Poot Poo. Pootie Poot? Party Monster is based on the 1999 memoir, Disco Bloodbath, by none other than James St. James.
01:11:06
Yeah, this is how we do it. So Michael Ailig is now 52 years old. He says he doesn't like the way he's portrayed in the movie because he says it's one dimensional.
01:11:19
So Angel, who's played by Wilson Cruz. From My So-Called Life. Right. He, he, it turns him into a minor side character.
01:11:26
Yes. Um, if Angel Melendez hadn't been murdered, he would be 57 years old right now.
01:11:33
And that's the party monster murder of Angel Melendez. God, that's so, I mean, the fact that like,
01:11:40
he's Michael, a leg, a leg, a leg. Yeah. He served his time. Like that's a part that's so rarely happens where it's a famous murder.
01:11:50
Yeah. Where the person goes to jail, serves their time, and comes back out, and then is able to speak again.
01:11:58
Yeah, it's hard to track down. exactly what he's up to now. Like, it seems like he's got all, you know, trying, trying a bunch of
01:12:03
other, you know, fashion line and art and like, maybe trying to still do club promotions. And
01:12:09
it's just like hard to track it down. But I mean, yeah, and it's hard to kind of know how to feel
01:12:15
because it was this, you know, when you talk about a time like that, it's also surreal. And
01:12:21
the behavior is so surreal. And then the drug element makes it all very kind of like,
01:12:26
uh yeah there's a kooky element to it but at the end of the day there's there's a really tragic
01:12:32
murder and then just again we've talked about this a bunch of times but like when people have
01:12:37
to dismember or they're able to dismember human beings i just it's such a it's so far beyond
01:12:44
anywhere i even want to think about being totally just nightmarish totally yeah it is really sad
01:12:51
and then you think of all the club kids now and like looking back and being like we were just
01:12:55
fucking we just like went off the deep end this could have been this great movement of you know
01:13:00
and it did like it influenced so many people now like fucking lady gaga she wouldn't exist without
01:13:06
this club kid movement and sure they talk about like marilyn manson was like directly influenced
01:13:11
by you know all this shit yeah georgia hart stark wouldn't have worn fucking vinyl pants
01:13:15
and stacked shoes that's right to raves if it hadn't been for this so i tried to wear stacked
01:13:20
shoes one time and I can still feel myself going down on the sidewalk in San Francisco
01:13:27
walking home from a bar and just you take one weird step mine were Mary Jane's and my friend
01:13:32
would call me a little Frankenstein when I wore them because that's exactly what I looked like
01:13:36
and you take one wrong move in those things and you're just down your ankle goes out from underneath you, you land on your
01:13:42
whatever this bone is and you look like a stupid fucking idiot you look like a god damn goon
01:13:47
so that's that, wow that was good thank you um it's i'm surprised we haven't done that one yet that one is such a it's so infamous
01:13:55
and kind of like its own little world well i didn't realize how i i thought about it a long
01:14:00
time ago but i didn't realize how like how i just seemed so hard to wrap my head around and like
01:14:05
express exactly what the time and place was like but then my friend crystal langham thank you uh
01:14:10
reminded me of it and and so i was like oh yeah yeah yeah that's a good one i'm anna navarro and
01:14:17
on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro. I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues
01:14:23
happening in your community and around the world. Because I know deep down inside right now,
01:14:28
we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on. Every week I'm breaking down the biggest issues
01:14:35
happening in our communities and around the world. I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown,
01:14:40
who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. The Justice Department threw,
01:14:45
We counted four presidential administrations failed these victims. Listen to Bleep with Ada Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:14:58
Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge. That's where we begin.
01:15:03
For some, it's a confrontation no parent ever expects. They finally admit, we're here to take your children.
01:15:10
The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids. It was just shock and horror and desperation.
01:15:16
For others, it's surviving the unthinkable. As they're having this gun battle, thousands of feet up in the air,
01:15:24
many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were going to die then.
01:15:29
The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant.
01:15:34
We talked to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it, and what came next.
01:15:40
And on our off-record episodes, we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about.
01:15:47
New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network.
01:15:52
Listen to The Knife on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:15:58
10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.
01:16:04
A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
01:16:10
I scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.
01:16:21
That may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
01:16:27
or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, mine this week comes because I drove up to Petaluma
01:16:36
to be there for my old sister Laura's 50th birthday. And so she ended up having a birthday week,
01:16:46
which is kind of hilarious. You're allowed to do that when you're turning 50. Yeah, I think it was big.
01:16:49
So she had like a dinner at my dad's house and then I drove up and then we went to the Twin Oaks,
01:16:55
which is this rad bar between Petaluma and Sebastopol that used to be old and scary
01:17:00
and it was like kind of a locals only, just don't go in there. And now they've redone it and it's really awesome.
01:17:06
And they have really good bands. The band that played there that night was really good.
01:17:09
Anyway, I love driving to Petaluma because I love anytime I get to leave Los Angeles.
01:17:14
And the time I spend on the five between L.A. and Petaluma is so soothing because it's just like, you know, sometimes I talk to you on the phone a bunch, make some phone calls.
01:17:26
Fall asleep for a little while. Get his zone out. Smell all the smells that are out there to be smelled.
01:17:32
Every different type of livestock shit. You would like to smell is there for you to smell.
01:17:37
You go to yourself, I should be vegetarian every time you drive that drive. That's right.
01:17:42
And then if you're on the 99, you might hit a patch of rose smells. You might hit a patch of really strong onion smells.
01:17:50
It's an exciting way to live. All your olfactory senses are being triggered Do you like smells that you can control So anyway but my newest thing is on both the way up and the way back I was just binge listening once again to Criminal with Phoebe Judge
01:18:09
And I just love that show so much. But there was one episode and it inspired this week's murder for me because it's the story.
01:18:23
and and um hearing it this the way phoebe judge told it it's all from the point of view of the
01:18:30
wife melinda elkins but we've seen it as a um as a forensic files and i think in american justice
01:18:37
and it's the story of clarence elkins i don't remember this one yet okay so let me tell you
01:18:45
all about it tell me june 7th 1998 i'm gonna buzz in when i know what you're talking about okay great
01:18:50
Stephen, are you picking up that buzz slap? Sounds good. Great. June 7th, 1998. It's in Barberton, Ohio.
01:19:00
So this is a suburb of Akron, Ohio. Okay. Okay. On the morning of June 7th, 1998, a woman named Melinda Elkins, she's puttering around the house.
01:19:11
and her son comes running into the house saying there are police outside in SWAT gear running out
01:19:18
of the woods and at their house. Can you picture that people? I mean, first of all, just the boy
01:19:25
outside. I'm not sure how old he was, but I like to think he was eight. And because that would be
01:19:30
the most impact if you're standing in your yard, like throwing something against a wall board and
01:19:35
you look over and just a SWAT team comes running out of the woods. Mommy, mommy, there's a SWAT
01:19:41
team there's a SWAT team um yeah exactly he knows all the terminology so melinda goes running out of
01:19:47
her house and going what's going on and they tell her that her 58 year old mother judith johnson has
01:19:55
been stabbed to death and that her six-year-old niece brooke who was staying the night at her
01:20:00
grandma's judith's um was raped beaten and left for dead oh my god and as melinda is trying to
01:20:07
take in this information, she looks over the cop's shoulder who's talking to her and sees
01:20:12
her husband, Clarence Elkins, getting handcuffed and stuffed into the back of a cop car.
01:20:17
Oh, no. And this is when she learns that her niece, Brooke, her six-year-old niece, who was horribly
01:20:23
attacked, identified her uncle, Clarence, who is Melinda's husband, as the murderer.
01:20:32
Can I do a light tap? This sounds familiar. Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay, so what happened was Judy and Brooke were attacked,
01:20:43
they think somewhere between 2.30 and 5.30 in the morning at Judy's home. Judy was beaten so badly that initially the authorities thought that she'd been stabbed to death.
01:20:57
But it was just she was beaten with a blunt instrument so badly, and the wounds were so deep that they thought they were knife wounds.
01:21:06
Oh, my God. She was also raped and sodomized. And Brooke, this six-year-old, heard something going on.
01:21:15
So she ran out to see and saw her grandmother lying dead. She ran back into the room.
01:21:22
She was staying, got into bed to hide. The man came into the room and began to beat her.
01:21:29
She passed out. Then she was raped. and then she was left for dead and beaten and left for dead.
01:21:38
She woke up around 7 in the morning and she called a family friend and she left a message on that person's answering machine saying,
01:21:48
I'm sorry to tell you this, but my grandma died and I need somebody to get my mom for me.
01:21:53
I'm all alone. Somebody killed my grandma. Now, please, would you get a hold of me as soon as you can?
01:21:58
Bye. can you imagine getting that answering with humus it's so haunting um and then she walks
01:22:06
next door to the next door neighbors in her bloody nightgown and knocks on the next door neighbor's
01:22:11
door and asks for help a woman named tanya brazel answers the door and uh she lived there with her
01:22:19
common-law husband her old man and their children and tanya tells brooke that she's making breakfast
01:22:24
for her kids but if she'll just wait on the porch um she'll help her 45 minutes later wait what
01:22:30
she drives brooke home yes just like just dog year that so brooke's mother april is melinda
01:22:40
elkin's sister so clarence's this is basically clarence's sister-in-law april and his niece
01:22:46
brooke got it um and it's melinda's sister so they have different last names now because they're
01:22:50
both married but melinda and brook melinda sorry and april are sisters okay so on the way home
01:22:57
brook tells this woman tanya the neighbor um that the man who attacked her and killed her grandmother
01:23:02
looked like her uncle clarence and so when they arrive at april's house tanya tells april that
01:23:10
brook had said it was her uncle clarence who attacked her so when melinda is told all this
01:23:17
by the authorities, she knows that it's impossible. Because on the evening of the attack,
01:23:22
Clarence was at home, he went outside, he built a bonfire in the yard. And then he decided he was
01:23:29
going to go out with friends to some local bars. So he was out drinking with his friends till 2.30
01:23:34
in the morning. And she knows for sure that he came home at 2.30 in the morning, because their
01:23:38
son was sick, and she was up with him. And so when he came in, she was up, and they talked.
01:23:45
and then Clarence went to bed at 3 in the morning and Melinda stayed up pretty much for the rest of the night
01:23:52
with their sick child and so she told the police there no way he could have left again without me knowing and he certainly couldn have driven the one hour trip to my mom house and then driven one hour back and been gone for
01:24:05
over two hours without me noticing, because I was up all night, and I would have noticed that he was
01:24:10
gone. And when people build a bonfire on the night of a murder, it's just it has to be bad luck if
01:24:16
you didn't do it. For real, it's straight at making a murder. I hear a bonfire. I'm like,
01:24:22
he did it yeah it's not but the problem is out in the if you live out in the country which i'm
01:24:27
assuming i don't know the suburbs of akron well enough but building a bonfire is just like oh yeah
01:24:34
go go burn that shit or just something like because there's nothing else to do just go stand
01:24:38
around a fire and drink beer yeah like it's kind of it's pretty common okay we also used to do it
01:24:43
at my friend broadford's house he got this he somehow fashioned a burn barrel where we would
01:24:49
bring like old checkbooks that you didn't need anymore. Oh, like a shredder. Like a shredder, but you could just burn it.
01:24:55
And someone once brought the box that their huge new Mac desk monitor came in. So it was like a four foot cardboard box.
01:25:09
And they put it in the barrel and it went up and the flames went so high that the fire
01:25:14
department ended up coming to his house and being like, you guys, you're in Hollywood.
01:25:19
like you can't this was in hollywood this was in the backyard of like a duplex right off of highland
01:25:25
oh my god and the fire department's like what are you doing yeah this isn't fucking
01:25:30
sticks more like we're just trying to enjoy ourselves anyway don't be a bummer man in
01:25:35
defense of bonfires okay so this is the other thing melinda has known her husband since she
01:25:42
was young they got married when they were 18 years old and she's just like this is not he is not this
01:25:48
person. It's, he is not the person he's not going to snap. He's never been an abusive person. He's
01:25:53
not like that in any way. So all of a sudden him, and, and even though she says they did not have an
01:25:59
ideal marriage, they did fight and she would go over to her mom's house and spend the night that
01:26:04
happened, you know, often she said it wasn't ideal, but it was just like any other marriage
01:26:11
where that does happen. And she said her mom, although sometimes being disappointed in Clarence
01:26:17
loved him and clarence loved her mom there there was no ill feeling between them and so she's like
01:26:23
there's she just knew in her heart this it wasn't him yeah um uh and then also all of his movements
01:26:31
were accounted for that night because he was either at home where she knew he was or he was
01:26:36
at bars around their town where all all kinds of people swore that they saw him and knew he was
01:26:42
there um and then he was back at home with her um uh so when police and then police the police
01:26:50
came and searched melinda and clarence's home hours after the attack and they found no blood
01:26:56
evidence anywhere in the house and due to the extreme nature like i was saying of judy's wounds
01:27:02
um and and of brooks there was no way that that perpetrator didn't have blood all over him and
01:27:09
all over his clothes and probably in the car every like there's everywhere yeah so they would
01:27:13
have found at least something somewhere and there was not a trace um in fact the authorities said
01:27:20
the amount of blood would have actually been staggering because how bad it was at judy
01:27:24
johnson's house um but that didn't matter because um there was an eyewitness to the crime and that
01:27:32
was brooke who said um it someone who looked like her uncle clarence and that's i think also
01:27:39
you know we've heard about this in other similar types of cases but i feel like if i was uh somebody
01:27:46
who had to take a statement from a six-year-old who had been raped and beaten and grandma left
01:27:52
i mean traumatized beyond belief you if she tells you she saw the person you believe her yes and you
01:28:01
want to make give her justice and make this but the phrase he looks like my uncle clarence doesn't
01:28:08
It means he was that tall. He was the same build. He had the same hair voice. It's what it reminded me of.
01:28:15
Yeah. Yeah. Especially from a small child who like doesn't, can't explain a person.
01:28:20
It's like, this is the closest I can explain. Exactly. Right. Right. But by the time it got to her taking a statement, her talking to the police, it had become, it was my Uncle Clarence.
01:28:34
Right. And even though there was no physical evidence in any way linking Clarence Elkins to the scene of the crime, he was charged with aggravated murder, aggravated attempted murder, rape and felonious assault.
01:28:51
so five days after Judy and Brooke's attack Melinda and her sister April bury their
01:28:59
mother they hold hands during the funeral then they leave and they don't speak for three and a half years
01:29:05
because you have to think about this is now your sister's husband killed your mother and raped and
01:29:13
attacked your daughter your child and then on the other side of that from Melinda
01:29:19
side so that's april's side melinda's side of it your husband is accused of killing your mother
01:29:25
your mother's still dead and being a child rapist and yeah to your own niece who you love as probably
01:29:32
as much as your own kids so everybody loses terribly in this scenario from the get-go
01:29:39
i'm trying to like picture that but it's like these two women like need each other right but
01:29:46
I mean like how could and it's your yeah it's your sister yeah um but this is like it's a
01:29:51
circumstance that just beyond anyone anyone dealing um so at the trial um it began May 20th 1999 It was in Akron And Brooke is now seven years old She testifies that she saw her uncle Clarence killing her grandma The defense
01:30:09
attorney argues the phone message that Brooke left in the morning of the attack says somebody killed
01:30:15
her grandma. Then this somebody had turned into somebody who looked like Uncle Clarence. And then
01:30:20
that eventually became it was uncle clarence yeah but because brooke's eyewitness testimony is the
01:30:26
only evidence presented because there it's the only evidence there is really at the time
01:30:31
um because all the blood events there's no they don't have uh yeah they didn't dna wasn't where
01:30:40
where it eventually becomes and so it's just that's the only evidence that the prosecution presents
01:30:46
and so that's the only argument the defense can make and uh so the the jury um oh and and when
01:30:54
melinda it goes on the stand to say no no he was home with me and then he was out with his friends
01:30:58
and he came back home she tells her story the prosecution basically makes her look like a stupid
01:31:06
hick who's just lying and standing by her man yeah and they humiliate her on the stand and basically
01:31:12
make it seem like, well, you're just doing this for your husband. You're not credible, yeah.
01:31:15
Yeah. So the jury deliberates for three days, and on June 3, 1999, they find Clarence Elkins
01:31:21
guilty of murder, two counts of rape, and two counts of assault, and he's given two
01:31:26
life sentences. Wow. So when the trial ends, the prosecutor turns and looks at Melinda Elkins and says, you're
01:31:33
not going to see your husband for 54 years. And she looks back at him and says, you want to bet?
01:31:38
because now because she knows now this is that he's been railroaded what a dick can i say like
01:31:45
that's unnecessary dude you just send him away you don't need to fucking say something like that
01:31:50
but you have to think they think it's a child rapist and a murderer that they're sending away
01:31:54
they think they think that they're doing she didn't do that yeah but they're you know it's
01:32:00
just that thing of like they've cast everybody and they need to see people in this way because
01:32:04
It's what happened. And it's so awful. I mean, like a living child that's there to say this horrible thing happened to me is like, that's going to turn everybody.
01:32:15
It's going to get things extreme. But Melinda knows. And Melinda with with the weight of the world on her shoulders.
01:32:22
And this is, you know, all of this part of the story is because Melinda tells her story on criminal.
01:32:28
Yeah. With Phoebe Judge, which, by the way, I thought of this joke where I can't wait to somehow.
01:32:34
someday and maybe you'll be there for it. Get like a bill at a restaurant that's really
01:32:38
expensive and I'm going to go, I'm Phoebe Judge and this is criminal. And I might stand up
01:32:44
when I do it. Oh my god. Just saying. I love it. That hit me as I was driving. I'm like,
01:32:49
that's going to be so funny. I didn't do the voice well enough about them, but I'm just saying.
01:32:53
What do you think I am, Phoebe Judge? Because this is criminal. Because I'm Phoebe Judge.
01:32:57
You think I'm Phoebe fucking Judge? Because this is criminal, you know. Like Phoebe Judge
01:33:02
suddenly starts talking like that yeah instead of just like phoebe fucking judge what do you think
01:33:08
i am phoebe judge because this is criminal yeah okay um shout out to phoebe judge oh my god yes
01:33:17
uh so but but that episode of criminal melinda gets to tell her own story and melinda basically
01:33:23
is one of those women that i really love and adore who the shit is on her the weight of the
01:33:28
world is on her shoulders and she's like now i gotta get busy i gotta start doing something and
01:33:33
so what she does is she starts looking up who all the sex offenders in the area were at the time of
01:33:40
this attack that seems like something the cops should have done right but the cops just but the
01:33:45
cops had their guy and they did their job and they went that's it and she was like well i gotta be the
01:33:50
cop now because no one's gonna work on this i'm the daddy in this situation i think as a baby i'm
01:33:55
the daddy in this situation. That's fucking right. Um, so yes. Melinda stepped up and was the daddy
01:34:00
in the situation because she not only wants to exonerate her husband who she knows is not guilty
01:34:06
and is going to jail for 54 years, but she also wants real justice for her mother, her murdered
01:34:13
mother and for her niece. Knowing that there is a fucking psychopath like that out there, like you
01:34:18
got it. Fuck like your husband's in jail, whatever. Like fucking go put this person away. And that
01:34:24
feeling which is also why this would be such a great movie she's the only one who knows that
01:34:30
there's a fucking child rapist murderer out there still scary and if she doesn't do anything it's
01:34:37
you know he'll do it again yeah so what she does is she gets this list of the sex sex offenders in
01:34:44
the area and she starts to track them down and find out where they hang out she's dog the fucking
01:34:50
bounty hunter yeah and then she dresses up in sexy clothes and goes to their bars that they like to
01:34:55
hang out in and flirts with them and gets in their proximity so that she can take their beer bottles
01:35:02
put them in plastic bags uh and run out what like she basically the story she tells on criminal with
01:35:09
is that she would flirt with them they'd get a beer at some point the guy would get up to go to
01:35:15
the bathroom or go somewhere else and she'd grab the fucking evidence put it in a plastic bag and
01:35:20
run to her car and like peel out and drive away. Fucking bitch is Sherlock Holmes.
01:35:24
She is. And she puts the shit in her freezer. She said she had to tell her sons what she was doing because her freezer slowly became
01:35:31
filled with these pieces of evidence that she knew if she saved them, she would have
01:35:36
them to eventually test against the DNA they collected at the crime scene. And she knew that she had to do something and that's what she figured out to do, which
01:35:45
is fucking genius. So she does this multiple times, puts herself in incredible danger.
01:35:52
And all police and authorities say, do not do field work. Do not do field work if you're this person.
01:35:59
But multiple times. This case was special because she really was all alone. She was the only one doing it, yeah.
01:36:04
Then she gets a new defense team for Clarence. And I'm sure it wasn't that hard to do because there's no physical evidence against him.
01:36:17
And so she hires someone named Martin Yant. And the two of them start working on this list of potential suspects.
01:36:25
and while they do that, they find a video and it's a video of, I think, from what I remember,
01:36:33
I think it was like a family wedding. But Melinda sees her mother in the video and she sees a young man that's kind of around her mother.
01:36:41
He's like standing near her a lot, looking at her, trying to talk to her and just kind of like around.
01:36:47
Creepin. Yeah, she gets serious creeps because his behavior is so odd because this guy's 27 and her mother is in her late 50s not only that but he looks a lot like
01:37:01
clarence uh-huh so um she uh they based they find that he they track him down he's living in the area
01:37:10
um and melinda starts to she knows that her mother told him to leave her alone that basically said
01:37:19
I'm old enough to be your mother. What are you doing? Um, so Melinda's like, that's motive right
01:37:24
there. Um, so, uh, basically he gets questioned, but he's cooperative. He answers all the questions
01:37:35
and he volunteers to give DNA. Um, so while all this is happening, um, Martin, the aunt,
01:37:44
tells Melinda, you should really try to, you should really get your sister, like try to
01:37:49
communicate with your sister again. Yeah. Because if she can just see how clear it is that Clarence didn't do this and that the
01:37:57
evidence really is in his favor, maybe she can like, it'll heal some really, really deep
01:38:03
awful wounds. And you guys can like, you need each other. You can't do this by yourself.
01:38:08
and so melinda called her sister and basically that's all it took and she basically said she
01:38:16
basically said that you know like if you would just look at these facts um but also by this point
01:38:22
brooke was 10 years old and brooke was starting to say you know they i was saying what they wanted
01:38:28
me to say and um as they were as they were one day looking through i think it was a photo album
01:38:34
I can't remember what happened, but Brooke looked down and said, or maybe it was a picture of this suspect.
01:38:42
And Brooke said, well, it couldn't have been him because his eyes are blue. And it couldn't have been Uncle Clarence because his eyes are blue.
01:38:51
And the man who attacked us, his eyes were brown. And that's when she's starting as a child who has a little breathing room and is a little far away from it,
01:39:02
is going, yeah, now that I remember, that wasn't, like, that's not accurate. So when they show Brooke a picture of this 27-year-old man,
01:39:16
her face drops, and, like, she looks terrified, and both April and Melinda are convinced that they found their guy.
01:39:23
But when the DNA test comes back in 2001, it's not a match. And they can't believe it.
01:39:34
They thought it was like the perfect thing. But the good news is that they also tested Clarence Elkin's DNA against this DNA that they were testing, which was the samples that were found in both Judy and Brooke's underwear.
01:39:47
And those samples matched. It was one DNA. What do they call that? When the person gives it one DNA.
01:39:58
Well, sample, but yeah, but it was profile. It's a single profile. in both. So they know it's that that's the guy. But it's not this young guy that was flirting with
01:40:08
the mother. But it's also not Clarence Elkins. And so they Brooke officially recants her testimony
01:40:15
in a recorded deposition. And in January 2002, they put in a request for a new trial and they're
01:40:22
denied. But Melinda's not deterred. In 2004, with the help of the Innocence Project, a judge agrees
01:40:30
to further DNA tests with biological matter from vaginal swabs that were taken from both victims,
01:40:38
or from Judy Johnson and fingernail swabs. Swabs, whatever. Yeah, fingernail residue from Brooke.
01:40:47
Because before only the hair was tested. And so the only caveat in that, the judge said that the family has to pay for it,
01:40:56
and it costs $40,000. Holy shit. So Melinda's like, we have to do this and we have to get it done.
01:41:02
They don't have money like that in any way. But her and her sons decide they're going to start a website, a fundraising website called Free Clarence Elkins.
01:41:10
And they just put all the information about everything that we've talked about so far on the website.
01:41:16
And they start raising money. They end up raising the money over $40,000. They get the evidence tested.
01:41:23
The test reveal it's all that same DNA profile. Again, it's not Clarence. they request again they request another retrial um they're denied again i know
01:41:35
yeah because he he was convicted on the eyewitness testimony not on dna evidence but the dna is proving that the eyewitness testimony is wrong Right So now it 2005 Melinda at home reading the newspaper
01:41:51
And on the front page, she reads a story about a couple in her mom's town who were arrested for raping their own children.
01:42:01
And as she reads it, she sees the name Tanya Brazel and Earl Mann. and that was duty johnson's neighbors that brooke walked over to their house the morning
01:42:11
um after she woke up from the attack and asked for help and tanya said you wait on the porch
01:42:17
while i make my kids breakfast what a fucking cunt and of course electric charges run up and
01:42:24
down melinda's spine because she knows yeah this is it um so it turns out that and and again
01:42:32
And if anyone forgot, Tanya is the one who told April when they got to the house.
01:42:38
She said it was her uncle. Not that it looked like her uncle, but that it was her uncle.
01:42:43
So it turns out Earl Mann, who is Tanya's common-law husband, was a convicted sex offender who'd gone missing from his halfway house five days before the rapes and the murder of Judy Johnson.
01:42:56
So now Melinda is on fire with the Lord. She's like, we know it's this guy. she looks it up she finds out Earl Mann is serving time in jail in the same jail that Clarence Elkins
01:43:09
is serving time in she goes to the prison to visit Clarence and she says you oh first she starts
01:43:16
she tries to write letters to Earl Mann so that she can get a letter back yeah like a flirty letter
01:43:20
in a different name um thinking she'll send a letter back and she'll she'll have the DNA on the
01:43:26
envelope um yeah yeah yeah yeah he never responds okay so she goes and visits clarence in jail and
01:43:33
says you have to get a dna sample she says do you know a guy named earl man and clarence clarence
01:43:38
says yeah he's sitting right over there and melinda looks over it's in he's in the the
01:43:44
what are you meeting room visitors room yeah yeah and so she he's blocked so she gets up and walks
01:43:51
over to the vending machine so she can see his face and she knows she's looking at the murder her
01:43:56
her mother's murderer and her niece's rapist and as she's walking and she makes eye contact with
01:44:03
him she realizes that she can't betray anything on her face because he may have seen her on the
01:44:10
news right as the wife and he must know yeah that clarence elkins who clarence elkins is and why
01:44:17
he's in that jail so she smiles at him like just oh i'm just making eye contact with somebody
01:44:23
her telling that story on criminals pretty amazing um because she just realized it's just a woman who
01:44:29
is coping coping coping and making shit work so that she can get like get to this end goal it's
01:44:37
incredible the strength she must fucking have um so basically she says the best thing you could do
01:44:44
is get a cigarette butt from him it'll leave the most on there you have to pick it up with a kleenex
01:44:48
make sure you don't contaminate it and you're the only person that can do this. So basically Clarence Elkins goes to, he sees our old man smoke a cigarette and put it out in a clean ashtray out in the yard.
01:45:04
And he goes over with a piece of Kleenex in his hand and picks up the cigarette butt and has to hide it in a Bible for two weeks before he can send it to his lawyer.
01:45:13
so he finally is able to send that evidence to the lawyer and they test the cigarette butt
01:45:20
they send it off for testing it's a match to the dna that's found on judy and brooks underwear
01:45:25
so on december 15th uh 2005 the lawyer's petition again only this time the district attorney calls
01:45:34
for the immediate release and acquittal of clarence elkins he has been in jail for six and a half years
01:45:40
and he on the same day that they call for it Clarence Elkins walks out of prison
01:45:46
now this is the heartbreaker to me even though it's of all this story is so awful
01:45:54
less than a year later Clarence and Melinda file for divorce and when I heard that part I was just
01:46:01
like this fucking woman yeah bent over backwards for you I feel like look you don't think it could
01:46:10
have been her that it could have been anything it could have been anything all i'm saying is
01:46:14
someone gets you the fuck out of jail yeah you do anything maybe you give up some of your bullshit
01:46:20
yeah maybe you maybe but you know but i think like maybe she was still over it you know like
01:46:26
maybe she didn't do it because it was her husband that she was in love with maybe she just did it
01:46:31
because this person she's done since 18 years old and like and she knew it was wrong and it knew it
01:46:35
was wrong so and it was her mother it wasn't like she was like i gotta get my husband back so he can
01:46:39
fucking cook me breakfast all the time because i got him out of prison like no i know i just feel
01:46:43
like the effort she put in and she just didn't give up and she there was you know in this again
01:46:50
why this would be an amazing movie there were reasons for her to give up about five different
01:46:54
times and she just didn't do it totally it's amazing but yeah i don't want anybody to be in
01:47:00
an unhappy marriage um yes you do it sounds like you do uh if i can't be happy no one should um
01:47:08
here's what's cool. Melinda Elkins Dawson is her new name, uh, was instrumental in getting Ohio to
01:47:17
pass Senate bill 262 which is also known as the post conviction DNA law And that means that there need to be provisions for DNA testing post which if the outcome could change the it says determinative outlines
01:47:38
I'm trying to shorten something that I can't even explain. You're a lawyer. But then also Clarence Elkins was instrumental in getting Ohio to pass Senate Bill 77,
01:47:48
which is also known as Ohio's Innocence Protection Act, which requires police to follow best practices for eyewitness identifications
01:47:57
and provide incentives for the videotaping of interrogations. Yeah, dude. Right?
01:48:02
And requires DNA be preserved in homicide and sexual assault cases. Because, you know, sometimes they go, oh, we don't have any of the DNA.
01:48:10
Right. It's solved. We can throw this. Or like, he got convicted. We can throw this out.
01:48:13
Yeah. So both of them, Melinda and Clarence, kicked ass and actually got the law changed to prevent this from happening to people in the future.
01:48:23
And to basically adapt. It's like our legal system, especially in that time, really needed to update itself.
01:48:30
Because it's like if you have this science, you can't say we never go back and test anything because there's innocent people in jail.
01:48:39
Yeah, and the science is always getting better and better. Yeah, yeah. And we now know that eyewitness testimony is just not reliable at all.
01:48:49
Right. And the police procedure, there are times where the coercion was just the beginning of it.
01:48:58
I mean, it's not even purposeful coercion. It's just wanting to understand and it just becomes something else, especially when you're interrogating a young child.
01:49:06
Right. Well, right. There's the two parts where there are the people who are like, we'll just beat it out of you.
01:49:12
will keep you here for 14 hours and then you'll say whatever we want. There's that part that
01:49:16
that has to end. But then there is that thing of whose job it is to talk to a six-year-old who has
01:49:23
to tell you a story like that and the human impact of that and what you would then want done to the
01:49:30
person you think did that to her. How do you not, you know, go a little bit blind and just try to
01:49:36
get the job done. Another, you know, positive is that Clarence Elkins ended up getting millions of dollars
01:49:44
by suing. He settled with the state of Ohio for $1.75 million. $1.075. Over a million dollars.
01:50:00
Just several million dollars. And he also settled with the city of Barberton with the police department for $5 million.
01:50:11
Jesus. Hope he gave a couple of those to Melinda. I know. I mean, for real. And he also, you know,
01:50:20
had bad PTSD for a long time. I mean, I'm sure that money is... It's no victory at the end of something like that.
01:50:30
But that's the story of Clarence and Melinda Elkins. Fucking shit. god damn it that's crazy yeah crazy story amazing good job yeah what's your fucking hooray for this
01:50:43
week oh wait let's just do a yoga corner check-in oh okay because i want to do it because i did it
01:50:48
that's right and i'm very proud of myself but partly only because i've developed something
01:50:54
called plantar fasciitis which is the most painful foot issue that is such a bummer and i was like i
01:51:04
have to go to yoga because I have to start stretching and it's all, it's all basically
01:51:09
muscular, um, whatever. So I went back to the general yoga and I swear to God, things like
01:51:15
this happen. When I got to the yoga class, the first stretch we did was the stretch I had been
01:51:21
doing that helps plantar fasciitis. And she's like, we're just going to do this calf stretch
01:51:26
against the wall. And I was just like, God, that's weird and fateful. It is. Um, it's like
01:51:32
everything happens for a reason. It really does. So I'm kind of excited because now I feel like
01:51:37
the beginner's ice has been broken for me. The momentum has started. Well, it didn't do it for me,
01:51:44
but I do have an email that I can read. Oh, okay. It's just as good, if not better.
01:51:49
Great. Karen, Georgia, Stephen, Fuzzy Friends, I heard on today's episode you suggest that people
01:51:55
organize murderino yoga classes to raise money for good causes. Oh. Funny thing,
01:52:00
the Richmond, Virginia Murderinos just organized one. Whoa. I set up a meetup yesterday evening
01:52:06
and it was full. I set it up. It was full by this morning. I'm setting up a second one
01:52:11
for the wait list. Want to get everyone a chance to participate. I've chosen end the backlog
01:52:16
as our good cause. Not only do I want to offer some sort of justice for the victims,
01:52:20
but let's face it, rape is a gateway drug to murder. Instead of a murder-themed flow,
01:52:25
we're going to practice a warrior-themed flow to offer up strength for victims. Good.
01:52:31
And so this was sent in by Katie, who's the owner and instructor at Lunge Yoga in Richmond, Virginia.
01:52:37
So awesome. So fucking cool. I love that. So I'll go this week to participate. We'll keep it going.
01:52:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have to, or because I'm becoming the ossified man.
01:52:48
It's really frightening. It's like all my muscles are like, well, if you're not going to use this,
01:52:52
we're just going to freeze up permanently. Horrifying. Love it or leave it. Yeah.
01:52:57
My fucking hooray. I just I've had a lot of anxiety lately and stress and unhappiness and just over social media. So I took Twitter and Facebook off my phone.
01:53:08
Yeah And I just not using them at all right now And it doesn feel great yet It not like I like I feel amazing No it doesn feel great It hard
01:53:18
It is hard, and I'm bored. But, you know, I'm glad I took a stand. I called my psychiatrist to up my anxiety medication.
01:53:26
So I took some steps to alleviate my anxiety a little bit instead of just, you know, sitting in it.
01:53:31
And it's just a comfortable, familiar feeling, but I know it's not where I want to be.
01:53:37
oh that's good yeah that's very good self-care oh i also want to say real quick i just i thought of
01:53:42
this about my story that uh we're not making fun of or making drug addiction or heroin use you know
01:53:49
a hilarious thing we drugs if you have a drug issue please go get help yeah i think we made
01:53:54
that super clear okay great yeah for sure um i mean i i'll tell you 95 more sad stories about
01:54:01
how uncool drugs are uh well my my fucking hurry this week is a little weird um because
01:54:08
i got very bad news on tuesday morning um and i haven't processed it yet but i do want to talk about it because it's it my auntie ping died and she was i've known her
01:54:26
since I was like in third grade. She was my one of my mom's very best friends. And she was one of
01:54:33
the very few people that stayed with my mom all the way through her illness. The entire time she
01:54:39
was there for me and my sister, she always had been. She was just one of those like a real matriarch
01:54:44
and a real badass. She had a heart attack and died very suddenly. She was relatively young.
01:54:50
I have not processed it yet. It's not like hasn't really impacted me. It was so shocking that and there's been so many other things going on that I've kind of like gone.
01:55:02
OK, I'm going to give myself four days and then I'm going to deal with that later.
01:55:07
But it's because like she is just one of those people that you never thought was going to be gone.
01:55:13
And so I would I guess my I would like to say this. We are only here for like fucking 15 minutes.
01:55:20
I'm not kidding. The older you get and when you're younger, you feel like nothing's ever going to happen to you. You feel you feel like you feel like you have all this time and that you can waste your time on stupid bullshit. You can waste your time on hating yourself. You can waste your waste your time on hating other people. I don't recommend it.
01:55:41
we're on a clock. And if you can right now, the younger you are, or wherever you are,
01:55:49
if you can just understand that, accept that a little bit and start living your life, like,
01:55:54
you could lose the people you love the most tomorrow, or you could die tomorrow.
01:55:58
I think it's a smarter way to live. Instead of getting, it makes you extend yourself to people,
01:56:04
it makes you a little less self-obsessed, and a little more outwardly oriented. and I just think like I was home for my sister's birthday.
01:56:14
I could have called my Auntie Ping and had lunch with her. I didn't do it and now I'm never going to see her again
01:56:19
and I regret that so much but that's kind of how it is like and that's how it is with anybody.
01:56:26
So I love you Auntie Ping. Thank you for everything and love the people that you love
01:56:35
and try to do better with loving the people that you don't love. It's just better for you.
01:56:40
that's beautiful karen i'm so sorry for your loss no thank you cheers to auntie ping yeah she was
01:56:46
the greatest she really was ping demo we'll miss her yeah amazing thank you yeah um thanks for
01:56:57
listening everyone stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye elvis you want a cookie
01:57:04
In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
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You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once.
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